24 Karat Gold production

[James89]

I was just listening to Stevie's albums in depth for the first time in a while and I was alarmed by one thing. TISL is a masterpiece and the production is pure perfection. IYD is not anywhere near as bad as I thought originally and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it again and the production is good. Nice little flairs here and there.

Then I get to 24KG. I know it was done in a very short space of time but the simple fact is this. The production of this album is absolutely terrible. How Stevie said "Yes, this is great. Release this" is beyond me. Either do it properly or NOT AT ALL. I thought Stevie was a perfectionist?

Some of the vocals are so bad it's embarrassing but there are great vocal parts too which is so frustrating to me because I believe that if it was given to Dave to go over the production thoroughly and then release it very late 2014/start of 2015, it would've been a hundred times better. Annoying.

So I hope that Stevie's future albums, whether that being 24KG 2 or not, will be produced to the standard of TISL and IYD because Dave CAN produce well but on this occasion he didn't, or didn't have enough time to do it properly.

EITHER DO IT PROPERLY OR NOT AT ALL STEVIE!!!

[olive]

" Negativity doesn't get you anywhere."

[James89]

Haha! I know I said that but I think I'm being more constructive saying that she's had a string of fantastic albums that were produced well and only this one was a bit of a let down. Was trying to be constructive for her future albums. :lol:

[bwboy]

24 Karat Gold is the first, and only, SN album I don't like at all. I think it's because all the songs sound alike to me. The music, the vocals, the whole album sounds like one long depressing song.

I'm gonna try to listen to it again sometime. I doubt she'll do another album like this, though.

[BombaySapphire3]

The production is a bit uneven which given the time frame it was completed in is no surprise but when it works it sounds great IMHO..my favorite of hers since the 1980s.

[pattyfan]

Just chiming in here...The only 3 Stevie CDs that I love are Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, and 24 Karat Gold. I love the variety, and the songs are strong. I don't notice the production, though admittedly I don't have a very keen ear. :)

Kevin

[rubylounge]

Just chiming in here...The only 3 Stevie CDs that I love are Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, and 24 Karat Gold. I love the variety, and the songs are strong. I don't notice the production, though admittedly I don't have a very keen ear. :)

Kevin

Just listening to this cd in my car today. I love the song 24 Karat Gold. I love variety of the songs too! Even my 4 year old niece was jammin' to it!

[Jondalar]

Just chiming in here...The only 3 Stevie CDs that I love are Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, and 24 Karat Gold. I love the variety, and the songs are strong. I don't notice the production, though admittedly I don't have a very keen ear. :)

Kevin

I totally agree. I think the classic rock production is perfect for her. In Your Dreams was overproduced. TISL was uneven. The TOSOTM was horrible.

[WatchChain]

24 Karat Gold is the first, and only, SN album I don't like at all. I think it's because all the songs sound alike to me. The music, the vocals, the whole album sounds like one long depressing song.

I'm gonna try to listen to it again sometime. I doubt she'll do another album like this, though.

Sadly, I have to somewhat agree. I LOVED "In Your Dreams" and "Trouble In Shangri-La". However, I've just never been able to embrace "24 Karat Gold". It just kind of sits there for me. Oh, I've given in numerous chances and time to grow on me. I've tried shelving it and then coming back for a fresh listen a few months later. I've tried to let it slowly "grow on me". All strategies have proved futile. Thus, I'm resigned to saying that "24 Karat Gold" is the first Stevie Nicks album that I've been unable to embrace.

[bwboy]

Yeah, likewise... every other SN album, there have been several songs I've loved, or at the very least, a few songs. With 24 Karat, nothing. And I even bought the expensive version with the extra song and photo booklet. They all sound the same.

[sorcerer999]

I don't think of them as production "flaws". I think of them as giving the songs (recorded and released in 5 months time, mind you) a bit of character. I've heard worse production flaws in some of the most current pop and rock artists of this decade. And keep in mind that almost EVERY Stevie album has production flaws, from Bella Donna to TISL and even some spots on IYD.

So when I hear guitar reverb on the fade out of "If You Were My Love", or a crisper vocal versus a slightly compressed vocal on "Watchchain", or whatever the "flaw" might be, I just embrace it as part of the song. I can't stand musical perfection, or autotune. I like real one or two take vocals, instrumentation with soul - the "dumb ass guitar solo" that Stevie prefers on "Everybody Loves You" versus the one that the producers initially were going to mix, for example.

In regards to this album, I still love it. It is my number four behind BD, WH and RAL. Yes that has a lot to do with the fact that they are recordings of her old demos, but a big part of it is because of the way they turned out with her current vocal register and how close they are to the original demos. I LOVE THAT! There are a few songs that I still don't care for (The Dealer, I Don't Care) but for the most part I was just so impressed how some of these songs turned out. The song itself of 24 Karat Gold is just exactly what it is titled...it's GOLD! And classic Stevie! I thought for sure WatchChain would be a slow R&B jam and was so shocked,surprised and impressed how much of an Eagles-esque rock song it turned out to be. If You Were My Love and All The Beautiful Worlds stayed faithful to the original early 80's outtakes, and the synth alone on ATBW really was the icing on the cake that was sorely missing from the original. I even love she still wailed at the end. Belle Fleur was the biggest change in regards to how the song was structured, with the new intro and outro, yet Dave still let the song remain true to itself incorporating the original demo into the meat of the song.

I could go on for hours and hours and paragraphs and paragraphs about this record, but you get my point. This album still makes me happy nearly 2 years later. But I respect the opinions and am able to understand why some people can't get past the "flaws". These "imperfections" honestly don't bother me though. I really want that last Fleetwood Mac album with Stevie songs, but I also want another SFTV part 2.

Just my opinionated two cents. I'll shut up now. :laugh:

[bwboy]

Hey, no apologies necessary, and I appreciate your thoughts about 24 Karat. I just wanted to add that my problems with the album have nothing to do with the production or sound of it, but the sheer monotony. Maybe when I give the CD a shot again I'll be able to differentiate the songs more. But like I said I appreciated reading your thoughts.

[mitzo]

I do not understand how any fan could not adore 24KG. The songs are mostly vintage Stevie and the production is consistent, unassuming, and showcases her songwriting and her mature voice with all its strengths and flaws. To me it is probably her best, in that it has none of the weaknesses that plague her previous solo albums: crappy uneven production, the throwaway vocals, the questionable song choices and songs written by others, the overly self-indulgent content, and embarrassing attempts to be a rock star. Instead we get a surprising collection of mostly treats. No wonder it is her most well-reviewed album ever. The only tracks I endure or skip are the unholy trio of I Don't Care, Hard Advice, and Watch Chain, the latter thank God a bonus track along with the equally painful Twisted.

[Jondalar]

I do not understand how any fan could not adore 24KG. The songs are mostly vintage Stevie and the production is consistent, unassuming, and showcases her songwriting and her mature voice with all its strengths and flaws. To me it is probably her best, in that it has none of the weaknesses that plague her previous solo albums: crappy uneven production, the throwaway vocals, the questionable song choices and songs written by others, the overly self-indulgent content, and embarrassing attempts to be a rock star. Instead we get a surprising collection of mostly treats. No wonder it is her most well-reviewed album ever. The only tracks I endure or skip are the unholy trio of I Don't Care, Hard Advice, and Watch Chain, the latter thank God a bonus track along with the equally painful Twisted.

I dont understand either.

[lilyfee]

Can someone elaborate on production issues?

I think Stevie was a little too safe musically on this album, contributing to a sort of monotonous and unoriginal sound throughout. She rarely takes risks with her voice or improvises anymore and that was something that really separated her from the pack before. But I think the songs themselves are great and even though I find some songs cringe-worthy -- I Don't Care for example :distress: -- overall the album grew on me and I can find merit in everything. Like even in IDC there's that last verse where she's just making up lyrics as she goes and while it doesn't save the song, it shows that she can still be inspired.

[sorcerer999]

I'm really having trouble understanding the people who are saying this album is "one long depressing song" or that "all the songs sound the same".

Can you honestly listen to the solid straight run of "24 Karat Gold" into "Belle Fleur" into "All The Beautiful Worlds" into "Lady" and tell me that those four songs even remotely sound like each other? Does "Cathouse Blues" sound like "Watch Chain"? Does "Mabel Normand" sound like "Carousel"? I think not. :laugh:

The only time I hear something that sounds similar to another song is the intro chords for "If You Were My Love" and "Blue Water", but that's only because the three ascending treble notes are the same. But of course we should all already know that's how she writes her music. Generally with those notes or chords, either ascending or descending. "Moonlight", "Juliet", "Doing The Best I Can", "Sanctuary" and a host of others are prime examples of that.

Other than those two songs, I don't think any song on this album sounds similar to another, either lyrically, melodically or within the instrumentation...so I think that argument is invalid. JMHO. :shrug:

[Jondalar]

I'm really having trouble understanding the people who are saying this album is "one long depressing song" or that "all the songs sound the same".

Can you honestly listen to the solid straight run of "24 Karat Gold" into "Belle Fleur" into "All The Beautiful Worlds" into "Lady" and tell me that those four songs even remotely sound like each other? Does "Cathouse Blues" sound like "Watch Chain"? Does "Mabel Normand" sound like "Carousel"? I think not. :laugh:

The only time I hear something that sounds similar to another song is the intro chords for "If You Were My Love" and "Blue Water", but that's only because the three ascending treble notes are the same. But of course we should all already know that's how she writes her music. Generally with those notes or chords, either ascending or descending. "Moonlight", "Juliet", "Doing The Best I Can", "Sanctuary" and a host of others are prime examples of that.

Other than those two songs, I don't think any song on this album sounds similar to another, either lyrically, melodically or within the instrumentation...so I think that argument is invalid. JMHO. :shrug:

They don't want to like the album. That is all fans of the album need to understand. After decades of pseudo-albums we finally get a real one and then have to put up with disgruntled fans. Ugggg go figure.

[michelej1]

I'm really having trouble understanding the people who are saying this album is "one long depressing song" or that "all the songs sound the same".



No, I don't think they all sound the same or that they are depressing. To the extent that there are slower songs that may seem to drag, they are not sequenced together on the album, so you can't really call it a trend or anything.

I mean the "sound the same" argument could have been made for TISL, because of the consistent lack of rhythm. You had to acclimate to that before you could appreciate TISL. But that's not the case with 24K.

Michele

[mitzo]

One great aspect of the album to me is the presence of ballads, whereas on other albums we only got one if any. Stevie writes and sings a ballad like nobody else and here we have juicy stuff like If You Were My Love, Lady, Blue Water, She Loves Him Still. In Your dreams basically only had Cheaper Than Free!

[Macfan4life]

No, I don't think they all sound the same or that they are depressing. To the extent that there are slower songs that may seem to drag, they are not sequenced together on the album, so you can't really call it a trend or anything.

I mean the "sound the same" argument could have been made for TISL, because of the consistent lack of rhythm. You had to acclimate to that before you could appreciate TISL. But that's not the case with 24K.

Michele
You hit the nail on the head about the lack of rhythm on TISL. Sheryl Crow ruined that album IMHO. The first several songs have the exact beat. Don't get me wrong...there are about 3 gems on this album but its my least favorite Stevie album. It lacks rhythm and excitement on key songs. The songs sound like really good demos you would bring to an ace producer to liven them up.
24K gold is ok but I believe the album was rushed. Songs like All the Beautiful worlds are better in the original form. No reason to re-record them to make them sound worse. I just think she again translated the demos or original songs in their original form. No changes, no added rhythm, no fancy bridges were added. So its boring and not creative IMHO.

[bwboy]

I tried listening to the CD again and gave up after 4 songs. I don't like the songs, they're not catchy, and I'm surprised she included Twisted. Stevie must really like that song because this is the third time she recorded it, and it sounds just like the Enchanted version. I think the more I try to listen to the cd, the more I will dislike it- you can't will yourself to like music, you either like it or you don't. For some reason, I don't like this album.

I'm glad some people like the CD so much, I don't begrudge them or the CD. It just didn't work for me.

[ViscountViktor]

I remember the massive thread we had on this when it came out, I think I raised the same points as you.

I particularly disliked the fuzzy vocals, the bad mixing, and the fact you could tell the album is rushed. It put me off the album.

I haven't listened to 24 Karat Gold all the way through for ages and I don't think I will, whereas I'm constantly listening to Bella Donna.

[mitzo]

When it comes to Stevie, a lot of people's ears slammed shut around 1983 it seems. We all want new music from her and FM and when it happens we shrug and pop Belladonna or Rumours into our Walkmans and wait for Dynasty to come on.

[On Ice]

When it comes to Stevie, a lot of people's ears slammed shut around 1983 it seems. We all want new music from her and FM and when it happens we shrug and pop Belladonna or Rumours into our Walkmans and wait for Dynasty to come on.

Although I dont agree with you on Bella Donna, I thought it was an amazing and bold move for Stevie to take with great results, can't beat Edge of Seventeen or Leather and Lace for great songwriting and singing...this statement is bang on and a big reason we've seen such little output over the past 15 + years. 24K was an awesome stripped down, delightful collection of songs we've wanted done for decades, let's enjoy it for what it is folks, an amazing gift from our favourite artist. :xoxo:

[bwboy]

Mitzo, what do you mean? I love the Other Side of the Mirror much more than 24 Karat Gold, and that came out 8 years after Bella Donna. Even In Your Dreams, while not my favorite CD, has some of my favorite songs, like Secret Love and Moonlight, and that came out right before 24 Karat.

[jwd]

Count me in as one of those who thinks that this is one of Stevie's best releases. Sometimes less is more!

[Danielle]

Count me in as one of those who thinks that this is one of Stevie's best releases. Sometimes less is more!

Yes! And I absolutely love the contrast between IYD and 24 KG.

[KarmaContestant]

Can someone elaborate on production issues?

I think Stevie was a little too safe musically on this album, contributing to a sort of monotonous and unoriginal sound throughout. She rarely takes risks with her voice or improvises anymore and that was something that really separated her from the pack before. But I think the songs themselves are great and even though I find some songs cringe-worthy -- I Don't Care for example :distress: -- overall the album grew on me and I can find merit in everything. Like even in IDC there's that last verse where she's just making up lyrics as she goes and while it doesn't save the song, it shows that she can still be inspired.

Agreed.

**

I've been reading the same criticisms about 24 Karat Gold since it was released, and I wish that someone could be in the room with me to point them out.

To my ears, the production style on 24KG is what I'd call 'cleaner' than we are used to on a Stevie album. I don't hear any of the flaws that are often mentioned. Like Twisted - often mentioned - I've sat and played the CD, and the vinyl, over and over trying to hear where people are saying two vocals were spliced together, and I just don't hear it. I hear one continuous vocal, with imperfections in pitch. To me it's just...real. Stevie doesn't have her Dreams voice or her Gypsy voice or her I Can't Wait voice anymore and I hear, for the first time, an album that doesn't attempt to conceal the way she really sounds. When you see her live, all those flaws come out, but we don't usually hear them on her albums.

Maybe I'm just not hearing it - maybe Twisted *is* a bunch of vocal tracks from different days and different moods spliced together? I don't know.

To me, the album is just very honest. It is what you'd get if Stevie came to your house and sang to you, in your living room. The usual studio tricks to hide imperfections aren't used here. I feel like all of these songs have pretty straight-forward vocals that showcase Stevie's real voice, now, today, without the sound effects, reverb, and layers that we are accustomed to getting.

And that vocal on Mabel Normand? It rocks my world. It is, for me, one of the best vocals she's put on tape since 1986. I'm not saying she hasn't recorded great songs or masterpieces since Rock A Little - because there have been many - it's just that, for me, no album vocal since she went to Betty Ford has given me that pre-rehab Stevie sound. She let go - she lost control to the song - she went back in time and it just spilled out - she went somewhere deep and pulled that out from a place she rarely goes in her head. I love it.

[Tango]

I thought Stevie was a perfectionist?


EITHER DO IT PROPERLY OR NOT AT ALL STEVIE!!!

:laugh: I don't think it's Stevie who is the perfectionist here! ;)

It was a quickly wrapped release. She was clearing out the vault of a lot of songs that we already had, and she certainly knows what we have--it's been brought to her attention many times. And there were some definite surprises as well. I enjoyed hearing what she did with a bunch of them.

I agree with you Karma, Mabel Normand is fantastic! I also like what she did with Blue Water, Cat House Blues (a silly song) and even how playful she was with the cover song she did with her niece and Vanessa on Carousel.

[Tango]

I never thought of Stevie as a perfectionist at all. When you think about some of things that are written about Fleetwood Mac, Stevie isn't mentioned as a perfectionist. She wants a song to be done her way in terms of sound, verses- and never forget the sequencing. :laugh: Bella Donna was done, according to her, practically live. When she participated on John Stewart's album, Bombs Away Dream Babies, Stevie was brought in to sing on Midnight Wind, but ended up singing on his song GOLD with barely any practice. Kenny Loggins and Don Henley have all taken her to task for her lack of perfectionism. I think Lindsey struggled the most with her. "Would you say that to Bob Dylan" is just a tiny example. You can see Lindsey having to work with her during Tusk's ANGEL. Stevie is not a musician and the musicans struggled with her and often challanged her to do better. "Do it over," "shorten it," "too wordy." English 101.

[Tango]

I never thought of Stevie as a perfectionist at all. When you think about some of things that are written about Fleetwood Mac, Stevie isn't mentioned as a perfectionist. She wants a song to be done her way in terms of sound, verses- and never forget the sequencing. :laugh: Bella Donna was done, according to her, practically live. When she participated on John Stewart's album, Bombs Away Dream Babies, Stevie was brought in to sing on Midnight Wind, but ended up singing on his song GOLD with barely any practice. Kenny Loggins and Don Henley have all taken her to task for her lack of perfectionism. I think Lindsey struggled the most with her. "Would you say that to Bob Dylan" is just a tiny example. You can see Lindsey having to work with her during Tusk's ANGEL. Stevie is not a musician and the musicans struggled with her and often challanged her to do better. "Do it over," "shorten it," "too wordy." English 101.


I want to add one more perfectionist- Mick Fleetwood. He was asked to help out on one of Warren Zevon's songs, Werewolves of London. They had a hard time finding the right rhythm people on the song. Waddy Wachtel apparently suggested John and Mick. They did take after take and everyone was satisfied, but Mick wanted to push on. "We're never finished," Mick said. That quote just came to mind. Nope, not Stevie, in terms of perfectionism. She likes to have fun. She's made this clear many times, including the documentary she did for In Your Dreams. Music is her "bliss." In some ways, she's still the hippie chick from the 70s.

[Nathan]

On first listen, I thought All the Beautiful Worlds was a reworked vocal from the 80s. On the album, she sounds just like the did in all the demos I've heard.