Is "mystical, elusive" etc. an excuse for poor songwriting?

[The Juggler]

I've read a good few articles, that complimented Stevie's lyrics for being extremely mystical, elusive, fairy-like etc. and sometimes I think this whole hippy fairy goddess folk image is really used to describe sub par writing.

Now I'm not saying Stevie is poor exactly, I think it's just since the mid 80s her way of writing has become very formulaic and tried. Some of the lyrics make no sense at all and sound like she just wrote whatever was in her head and recorded that.

I suppose being able to think of these lines and combine them to make a song is a talent as well, but I think a lot of the time these lines aren't great. Lindsey said she takes out a typewriter bashes away tons of lyrics and files them away till she needs them and I can imagine that.

I was listening to Everybody Loves You today and the lyrics are awful. I think if that was written in the 70s she may have gotten away with it but now it just sounds awful. A lot of artists seem to lose their talent after a point. Has this happened to Stevie, I think so.

(And before you say "why don't you write something better then" I do write.

[DauphineMarie]

I've read a good few articles, that complimented Stevie's lyrics for being extremely mystical, elusive, fairy-like etc. and sometimes I think this whole hippy fairy goddess folk image is really used to describe sub par writing.

Now I'm not saying Stevie is poor exactly, I think it's just since the mid 80s her way of writing has become very formulaic and tried. Some of the lyrics make no sense at all and sound like she just wrote whatever was in her head and recorded that.

I suppose being able to think of these lines and combine them to make a song is a talent as well, but I think a lot of the time these lines aren't great. Lindsey said she takes out a typewriter bashes away tons of lyrics and files them away till she needs them and I can imagine that.

I was listening to Everybody Loves You today and the lyrics are awful. I think if that was written in the 70s she may have gotten away with it but now it just sounds awful. A lot of artists seem to lose their talent after a point. Has this happened to Stevie, I think so.

(And before you say "why don't you write something better then" I do write.

I think about this sometimes as well, because since the 90's I'd say Stevie has become set in her ways, if you will, like she has nothing to prove anymore considering she's already obtained "legend status".

The way I see it, Stevie still has the ability to write incredible songs. Because as a writer myself, and as you know too, it's not something that just randomly goes away... It's something that is directly influenced by your surroundings and mindset (at least for me). I think that TISL is a far better album writing-wise than IYD, mainly because Stevie had something to prove after Street Angel. I think her more recent songs are more what she likes, what she wants to share, and what she feels is important to her.

She no longer cares for being commercial, and her writing reflects this. She pretty much does what she wants, and everyone lauds her based on the fact that she's Stevie Nicks.

[Machu]

To me, songwriting is much more subjective than just good or poor. I think Stevie's songwriting is more about a feeling than a story. It may not make sense from a linear perspective but you totally understand what she was feeling when she wrote it.

[sorcerer999]

Some of the lyrics make no sense at all and sound like she just wrote whatever was in her head and recorded that.

:nod: Yes! At times I think Stevie can be a very lazy songwriter.
"I like the coastal cities. I like the lights."
"Ooo, it's so romantic. Hey, it's so soulful."
"I wanna dress up. I wanna wear beads. I wanna wear feathers and lace..."


A lot of artists seem to lose their talent after a point. Has this happened to Stevie, I think so.

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=55051

^^^I posted a thread about this very topic in the Chit Chat section about a year ago. It didn't get a lot of responses but I would agree that there's a "creative window" for some artists, and none for others. I think Stevie falls somewhere right in the middle...but certainly there are times when I feel she's kind of "lost it", creatively.

[lilyfee]

IYD based on lyrics alone sounds very uninspired to me. But if you think about it, that's because it was uninspired. She's still an amazing songwriter... Look at Soldier's Angel on that album, for example. It's haunting and soulful. But she wrote that because she needed to get those feelings out, not in order to fill a quota. When she wrote all those songs with Dave, she was writing songs just to write songs, not out of any intense emotional release or something. Everybody Loves You absolutely kills me because it had such potential as a song, but the verses are cringe-worthy. :sorry:

I don't think it has to do with her age or exhaustion of her talents or something... I just think there's not the same desperation driving her writing. And since so much of her music in her early years directly related to her life experiences -- heartbreak, longing, dreams, fears, addiction, etc. -- a lot of her recent stuff falls flat in comparison.

I think she could get away with sloppier writing in the 80s as well, just because of the passion and fervor in her voice. Either you couldn't understand what she was saying or it didn't matter because you could feel it.:nod:

[BombaySapphire3]

Stevie had about 10 years of great writing in her. 24KG is her best album since the early 1980s ...even the castoffs written during her heyday are superior to most of what has been penned since then. There are a few exceptions.

[bombaysaffires]

I think her songs were better when Lindsey had a more active role as her 'editor'. He imposed a certain order on her songs and tightened them up, even the lyrics. As we saw in the DR doc, he no longer is permitted that role... mostly his own doing, but there you have it.

[Jondalar]

She is a very lazy writer.

[David]

She is a very lazy writer.I don't think she's a hugely gifted lyricist. I've always said that (and gotten cussed at). But she's this weirdly whole package, where the obtuse lyric with the tone-deaf phrasing combines with the way Stevie looks and the way she sings and her legions of fans and the way other pop stars talk about her and her lineup of men and her way of sounding air-headed and totally fascinating at the same time when she's talking to you, and allah shazam she's a legend. She's our girl.

By the way, I admire the work she put into many of her songs, like "Dreams" and "Crystal" and "Candlebright" and "Storms." These are songs whose lyrics add to Stevie's legacy. "Sister Honey" and "Alice" do not.

[iamnotafraid]

But she's this weirdly whole package, where the obtuse lyric with the tone-deaf phrasing combines with the way Stevie looks and the way she sings...

Hey, wait a minute.

Are you telling me that if Stevie looked like um...
oh, I don't know, let's say - Hillary Clinton. That
she wouldn't be our girl?

[BombaySapphire3]

Hey, wait a minute.

Are you telling me that if Stevie looked like um...
oh, I don't know, let's say - Hillary Clinton. That
she wouldn't be our girl?

If Stevie looked like Hillary Clinton we would not be having this discussion .

[Macfan4life]

Stevie and Christine are 2 of the best songwriters in music history. They are opposite in styles of writing but each has a knack for writing epic songs. Stevie seems to have lost some of her magic but that's ok most artists do over time. Look at the epic songs Elton John and the Stones wrote in the early 70's. The magic era is hard to keep doing. Christine's lyrics are instant songs. Much of Stevie's stuff is like poetry and its hard to put into commercial songs. But when it works.....its amazing. Just look at Edge of 17. The song is about 3 different experiences merged together. But the song is put together brilliantly and tells a story open to interpretation. And the music goes with it perfectly.

[Hawkeye]

Stevie and Christine are 2 of the best songwriters in music history. They are opposite in styles of writing but each has a knack for writing epic songs. Stevie seems to have lost some of her magic but that's ok most artists do over time. Look at the epic songs Elton John and the Stones wrote in the early 70's. The magic era is hard to keep doing. Christine's lyrics are instant songs. Much of Stevie's stuff is like poetry and its hard to put into commercial songs. But when it works.....its amazing. Just look at Edge of 17. The song is about 3 different experiences merged together. But the song is put together brilliantly and tells a story open to interpretation. And the music goes with it perfectly.


What's the third. I was only aware of 2. Stevie's uncle dying and John Lennon dying.

[olive]

What's the third. I was only aware of 2. Stevie's uncle dying and John Lennon dying.

?......
Jane Petty telling her she met Tom ,"at the age of seventeen " but with her drawl it sounded like the Edge of Seventeen to her

[Missy]

Nicks seems to be a very 'intuitive' songwriter. Sometimes I think she is more into finding the right mood in a song and she'll go with whatever takes her there. I love her but yes some of her lyrics are downright corny and cheesy. Perhaps nobody else but Stevie could get away with singing some of these lines.

Elton John had an early song called 'Skyline Pigeon' that is actually one of my favorites from him. But I always think that only Elton could get away with a song about a damn pigeon hehe.

[bombaysaffires]

I don't think she's a hugely gifted lyricist. I've always said that (and gotten cussed at). But she's this weirdly whole package, where the obtuse lyric with the tone-deaf phrasing combines with the way Stevie looks and the way she sings and her legions of fans and the way other pop stars talk about her and her lineup of men and her way of sounding air-headed and totally fascinating at the same time when she's talking to you, and allah shazam she's a legend. She's our girl.

By the way, I admire the work she put into many of her songs, like "Dreams" and "Crystal" and "Candlebright" and "Storms." These are songs whose lyrics add to Stevie's legacy. "Sister Honey" and "Alice" do not.


All songs LB refined. Just saying. Not that I think he's done well on all her songs he's touched, by any means, but..... when he was good, he was really good......

[iamnotafraid]

If Stevie looked like Hillary Clinton we would not be having this discussion .

Maybe Stevie will pull out the pant suits for the last tour.
___________________________________________

On Stevie's songwriting. It does sound like she just wrote whatever
popped into her head sometimes. Then she'd hone it down and make
something magical out of it when it was time to put it on record.

But after Rock A Little, or even during that time she seemed to
lose that ability.

[WildHearted]

Well, I think the decline seen in the mid-80s through 90s was mostly substance related. I think part of the problem now is simply that Stevie's life isn't as fast-paced as it once was. The more dramatic experiences you're having and witnessing, the more emotions you have to let out about it all, the more is to write about... back in the 70s, there was plenty of intensity to go around. Luckily, things have mellowed out for Stevie over time, but as a result, her output isn't as consistently captivating. However, when she IS truly inspired to write something, something born out of genuine emotion (a la Soldier's Angel, or For What It's Worth, Can't Fix This, even Moonlight) it's still very good.

Another consideration is that unfortunately, at some point, it becomes difficult not to get wrapped up in your own persona, and I think Stevie has definitely fallen victim to that periodically. She's become iconic for this mystical, stream-of-consciousness kind of writing, which actually has kind of gotten in her way. Whereas initially she was writing that way because that was how she was naturally expressing her thoughts (at times - certainly not all songs had that quality), I think at later times she felt inclined to write that way because of her own awareness about how she's perceived, which results in it seeming less authentic and more, well, forced or something.

Then of course there's the editing issue. I think there's a lot of factors at play. I think Stevie has great songwriting ability but it's not always utilized to it's fullest capacity for a number of reasons.

I will say, though, that there's nothing intrinsically "sub-par" about a particular style of lyrical writing... it's all just a matter of how it connects with the audience. If it connects, it's good. If it doesn't, that's where quality comes into question.

[BombaySapphire3]

It could also be that a writer only has only so many great songs in them. How often could someone look at some snowy Rocky mountain peaks and come up with a timeless gem in 20 minutes and then in few more minutes produce the song that would make you a star? Or look at a freeway sign and come up with a tortured epic like Silver Springs:shrug:These all seem like once in a lifetime moments and she had more than one of them.

[Missy]

There are some artists who do seem to have a sudden creative spurt in their later careers. But there are others unfortunately who seem to get in a rut.

Writing prose and writing poetry/songs can be very different. With a poem you are trying to condense down a bigger concept into a few lines. It also has to fit a rhythm or tempo.

I do respect Stevie's talent a lot even if she doesn't always quite hit the mark. She has to work with people who can understand where she is coming from, what she is striving for, and that may be difficult. Lindsey had a good understanding of her and probably helped 'interpret' her to the others in the group. He could possibly express things that she could not, because he had better musical knowledge and in his interviews he seems very articulate and well spoken. It's just a shame with Lindsey and Stevie that their egos can sometimes create a block.

[bombaysaffires]

Another consideration is that unfortunately, at some point, it becomes difficult not to get wrapped up in your own persona, and I think Stevie has definitely fallen victim to that periodically. She's become iconic for this mystical, stream-of-consciousness kind of writing, which actually has kind of gotten in her way. Whereas initially she was writing that way because that was how she was naturally expressing her thoughts (at times - certainly not all songs had that quality), I think at later times she felt inclined to write that way because of her own awareness about how she's perceived, which results in it seeming less authentic and more, well, forced or something.

Then of course there's the editing issue. I think there's a lot of factors at play. I think Stevie has great songwriting ability but it's not always utilized to it's fullest capacity for a number of reasons.



I do respect Stevie's talent a lot even if she doesn't always quite hit the mark. She has to work with people who can understand where she is coming from, what she is striving for, and that may be difficult. Lindsey had a good understanding of her and probably helped 'interpret' her to the others in the group. He could possibly express things that she could not, because he had better musical knowledge and in his interviews he seems very articulate and well spoken. It's just a shame with Lindsey and Stevie that their egos can sometimes create a block.

agree with both of these.

[olive]

she is an old rich white lady , she has no worries , she isn't really involved with anyone so any schoolgirl dating drama has ended and she is sober what's left to write about the past and death

[michelej1]

what's left to write about the past and death

Not to be morbid, but I wish she would write something about death and mortality. It could be very poignant. I mean, she thinks she will live until her nineties like the other women in her family, so I guess she doesn't think of her own death much yet, but I'm sure she can imagine the others dropping dead pretty soon. Write about that.

Michele

[olive]

Not to be morbid, but I wish she would write something about death and mortality. It could be very poignant. I mean, she thinks she will live until her nineties like the other women in her family, so I guess she doesn't think of her own death much yet, but I'm sure she can imagine the others dropping dead pretty soon. Write about that.

Michele

i agree ! God's Garden is one of my favorites and that is about death