Brexit vote

[Macfan4life]

I know this is a topic in the USA General Election thread but it deserves its own thread.
Curious to hear from our fellow Brit members. This is my opinion and my opinion is just as good as those talking blood heads on the television. Short term its going to have a big negative impact. London is going to lose many financial jobs. Its going to be a long 5 years to stability and maybe a decade to fully transition. Long term this may just work out especially since other countries are probably going to leave. It could be one of those situations that its best to go first and get it over with. The refugee crisis and immigration no doubt was a HUGE reason for the exit vote. I think that trumped any short term financial losses the country will face. I also believe there is another world economic crisis coming that could halt further exits as fear sets in or it could accelerate more countries leaving.

[MoonSister75]

I know this is a topic in the USA General Election thread but it deserves its own thread.
Curious to hear from our fellow Brit members. This is my opinion and my opinion is just as good as those talking blood heads on the television. Short term its going to have a big negative impact. London is going to lose many financial jobs. Its going to be a long 5 years to stability and maybe a decade to fully transition. Long term this may just work out especially since other countries are probably going to leave. It could be one of those situations that its best to go first and get it over with. The refugee crisis and immigration no doubt was a HUGE reason for the exit vote. I think that trumped any short term financial losses the country will face. I also believe there is another world economic crisis coming that could halt further exits as fear sets in or it could accelerate more countries leaving.


Thanks for starting a new thread. Yes I spent all morning trying to convince myself of the positives. And I also almost got into a disagreement with my neighbour over this issue. Hopefully it'll all work out and there won't any major disasters. But I can't help but relate to what the writer of this article talks about. ​

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/eu-vote-uk-diminished-politics-poisoned-racism

After this vote the UK is diminished, our politics poisoned

Gary Younge

During the campaign the very worst impulses were given free rein and voice. Britain is not greater for this decision but smaller, weaker and more vulnerable


‘Britain is no more sovereign today than it was yesterday. We have left the EU but we remain within the neoliberal system.’ Photograph: Hannah Mckay/EPA

In the end those who placed their faith in the “experts” were always going to be disappointed. The pollsters were wrong; the currency traders were wrong; the pundits were confounded. People who did not feel they had been heard have not just spoken. Given a one-off chance to tell the world what they think of how they are governed they have screamed a piercing cry of alienation and desperation.

Given the choice between the status quo and change (changing something, anything) Britain voted for change. It got its wish. This will change everything. As the pound plummets, stock markets dive, SNP leader, Nicola Sturgeon, hints at a new referendum for Scottish independence and Sinn Féin revives the question of Irish unity, we enter a period of volatility without precedent or comparison.

Like the dog that chases the car only to amaze itself by catching it, those who campaigned for Brexit own what comes next. There were sound reasons why some people rejected the European Union. Sadly none of them made it to the mainstream. Instead leave unleashed a range of demons and then refused to face them honestly, preferring instead to wade to the finish line through a toxic swamp of post-colonial nostalgia, xenophobia and general disaffection.

Britain is no more sovereign today than it was yesterday. We have left the EU but we remain within the neoliberal system. Left to the mercy of the markets we are arguably now less capable of directing our affairs than we were. We are not independent. We are simply isolated. (full article above)

[SisterNightroad]

This morning I was surprised to hear that Britain actually exited UE, because here the news always talked of the situation as a sterile threat. However I was surprised but not shocked, as I've always thought that the fact Britain kept Pound, refusing to adopt Euro as currency meant this was not a true membership from the start.
Sadly most of the voters must have voted for fear of immigration, but this doesn't stop immigration at all, it puts a stop to legal immigration only. And there are countries like Italy that simply can't stop immigration, people will keep on trying to face the ocean with a rubber, with many dying in the process, and just arrive at our shores day after day in every place.

[FuzzyPlum]

I'm absolutely stunned. Scotland only just rejected independence last time. Knowing they voted overwhelmingly to remain in the European union I can't see any justification for them remaining part of the UK anymore. It might sound alarmist to say it but this is the start of the end of the UK as a single country. It feels like everything I'v. Ever known is about to change

[Mr Scarrott]

I had feared this result, but hoped against hope that this wouldn't happen. My fellow countrymen and women have made a mistake of staggering stupidity borne of ignorance and wilful malicious untruths propogated by the Leave campaign and UKIP.

I watched the results through the night, fleetingly bouyed by signs of an upswing for Remain but it was not to be. Though never a Conservative, I finally broke into tears as David Cameron anounced his resignation, whilst screaming internally at his decision to promise the referendum in the first place.

And then, that insult to humanity, Donald J Trump, waltzed across his golf course in Scotland, that great nation at risk of being removed from the EU against her will and declaims "it's a great thing, it's a great thing."

America, you have been warned.

[BlueDenimLamp]

I had feared this result, but hoped against hope that this wouldn't happen. My fellow countrymen and women have made a mistake of staggering stupidity borne of ignorance and wilful malicious untruths propogated by the Leave campaign and UKIP.

I watched the results through the night, fleetingly bouyed by signs of an upswing for Remain but it was not to be. Though never a Conservative, I finally broke into tears as David Cameron anounced his resignation, whilst screaming internally at his decision to promise the referendum in the first place.

And then, that insult to humanity, Donald J Trump, waltzed across his golf course in Scotland, that great nation at risk of being removed from the EU against her will and declaims "it's a great thing, it's a great thing."

America, you have been warned.

"We The People" declared our independence from Brittan over 200 years ago and are doing quite well...

[olive]

"We The People" declared our independence from Brittan over 200 years ago and are doing quite well...

hold that thought until November 9 th

[BlueDenimLamp]

hold that thought until November 9 th

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YSxSc3ylAkg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[sue]

Mr Cameron by holding this referendum has at one stroke cut the UK off from its nearest neighbours and could result in the break up of the Union with Scotland.
The vote was held as Cameron had to appease the right wing faction of his party and promised a referendum in his manifesto , which won him and the conservatives the last UK election.
The people who voted, in a democratic vote, believe they will get a fairer system in the UK.
Mr Cameron will now be replaced by a more right wing Prime Minister and the government itself will become more right wing.
......Dark days ahead......

[sue]

...Sorry to go on, but its still very raw.

...On a lighter note...GLASTONBURY is on catch it on the BBC..

[olive]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YSxSc3ylAkg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm sure that's a pretty song , and after seeing Dan Rather interview with him I have a lot of respect for Mr Charlie Daniels but here are some facts on health and education

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

# 37 health

http://www.mbctimes.com/english/20-best-education-systems-world

# 14


GOOGLE search :

Which country in the world has the most freedom?


According to the Index, the freest nations in the world are, in order: Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, United Kingdom and Sweden. The United States is the only English-speaking country to rank outside the top 10.Aug 19, 2015

[olive]

they're like trump supporters no clue

The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/

[Macfanforever]

As I went to bed last night Remain in was higher then get out.I'm surprised that went the other way to get out.

[FuzzyPlum]

Can't blame David Cameron really for giving the people the chance to decide.
The blame lays squarely with that useless lump Jeremy Corbyn and his cronies. He did nothing for the 'Remain' campaign. The Tory vote was always going to be split but in the end it was labour voters that swung to 'Leave'. The only notable labour politician to show any passion was Sadiq Khan.

[FuzzyPlum]

PS
I see Nigel Farage is already backtracking over the 'Leave' pledge to use £350million per week EU money for the NHS...
'on reflection that was probably a mistake'.
What the 'uck have we done?

[sue]

Can't blame David Cameron really for giving the people the chance to decide.
The blame lays squarely with that useless lump Jeremy Corbyn and his cronies. He did nothing for the 'Remain' campaign. The Tory vote was always going to be split but in the end it was labour voters that swung to 'Leave'. The only notable labour politician to show any passion was Sadiq Khan.

Mmmm...
..Cameron did not have to hold a referendum...that's what politicians get paid for.
To make informed decisions on our behalf.
The labour vote , I agree, did not vote to Remain...

[Macfanforever]

Congrats to UK.You are free.


they're like trump supporters no clue

The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/

BS .Sorry .Trump supporters are more aware of whats up then the globalists who want everything for free and flood this country with open boarders..

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YSxSc3ylAkg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I love CD band and he supports DT.I cant even imagine what would happen on this board if any of the Mac supports DT or any of the 3rd party candidates.Personally I could care less who they support but it would be interesting who they like .

"We The People" declared our independence from Brittan over 200 years ago and are doing quite well...

Yes.Maybe other countries in the EU will follow .

Years ago I was a left wing globalist. Voted for Obama in 2008 .A registered Democratic for decades but woke up 5 years ago after Obama's shenanigans .Did not vote for Obama for his second term.Now unregistered from the dem party in February and went our country back.

[Macfanforever]

Speaking of DT.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q0KGfIZQ-H8?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[olive]

...Sorry to go on, but its still very raw.

...On a lighter note...GLASTONBURY is on catch it on the BBC..

I am so sorry , My husband and I keep a flat in London , we have many friends both Brits and immigrants from Germany , Denmark and family from Portugal and Romania there who created new lives ,, have jobs, are going to University and started families in the UK , it is a shames this is fueled by Ignorance and Racism .

[SisterNightroad]

Congrats to UK.You are free.




BS .Sorry .Trump supporters are more aware of whats up then the globalists who want everything for free and flood this country with open boarders..



I love CD band and he supports DT.I cant even imagine what would happen on this board if any of the Mac supports DT or any of the 3rd party candidates.Personally I could care less who they support but it would be interesting who they like .



Yes.Maybe other countries in the EU will follow .

Years ago I was a left wing globalist. Voted for Obama in 2008 .A registered Democratic for decades but woke up 5 years ago after Obama's shenanigans .Did not vote for Obama for his second term.Now unregistered from the dem party in February and went our country back.
I hope not if other countries exit EU, european economy is going to collapse. Just as it is The market went down, the Euro worth decreased, universities exchange is in peril and graduates job opportunities are halved because of the Brexit. We're even more fragile against Russia and China at the moment.
If the EU ceases to exist there will be another epoque of cold war.

[FuzzyPlum]

Mmmm...
..Cameron did not have to hold a referendum...that's what politicians get paid for.
To make informed decisions on our behalf.
The labour vote , I agree, did not vote to Remain...

In some irony for DC, the Conservatives' big win at the last election probably had a major impact on the outcome of this vote. Their win was the Liberal Democrats' loss. Historically the most pro-EU party was always the Lib Dems. If they'd been as strong as they were in the days of Paddy Ashdown, Charles Kennedy and even Nick Clegg (at the start of his leadership tenure) then they'd have probably had a big enough voice to make an impact. Unfortunately they've pretty much ceased to be a force. In fact I'd forgotten they even existed. I can't even think of the name of that nobody that leads their party now- he was non-existent throughout this campaign.

[olive]

[QUOTE=Macfanforever;1186567



BS .Sorry .Trump supporters are more aware of whats up then the globalists who want everything for free and flood this country with open boarders..






Years ago I was a left wing globalist. Voted for Obama in 2008 .A registered Democratic for decades but woke up 5 years ago after Obama's shenanigans .Did not vote for Obama for his second term.Now unregistered from the dem party in February and went our country back.[/QUOTE]




As a member of the 1 % I'm sure you and the rest of rich white America will be ok under a trump presidency . the rest of us 99er's will not .



(and I'm done )

[SisterNightroad]

As a member of the 1 % I'm sure you and the rest of rich white America will be ok under a trump presidency the rest of us 99er's will not .



(and I'm done )
Are you implying that you're poor or that you're an ethnic minority?

[FuzzyPlum]

Speaking of DT.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q0KGfIZQ-H8?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Speaking of Donald Trump- (who was without a doubt already the most despised person in the whole of Scotland due to his dicking people around with his golf course developments) has now peed people off even further.
(The Scottish people voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU).


DT- twitter (twit being the operative word)
Just arrived in Scotland. Place is going wild over the vote. They took their country back, just like we will take America back. No games!

Lily Allan (singer)
'Scotland voted IN you moron'

Sue Perkins (TV presenter)
'Scotland voted Remain you weapons-grade plum'

[olive]

Are you implying that you're poor or that you're an ethnic minority?

I am not poor but I am not rich to where i would receive any kind of tax break or benefit from a trump presidency just like any one else who Makes Less than $450,000.00 a year ( minimum to be in the 1 %)

we and the other 99 of the county will pay more in taxes

[MoonSister75]

Speaking of Donald Trump- (who was without a doubt already the most despised person in the whole of Scotland due to his dicking people around with his golf course developments) has now peed people off even further.
(The Scottish people voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU).


DT- twitter (twit being the operative word)
Just arrived in Scotland. Place is going wild over the vote. They took their country back, just like we will take America back. No games!

Lily Allan (singer)
'Scotland voted IN you moron'

Sue Perkins (TV presenter)
'Scotland voted Remain you weapons-grade plum'

Oh my god :shocked: I don't know whether to laugh or cry....

[MoonSister75]

I work at a wildlife centre on a Friday afternoon, and it was such a relief to have some time away from all this EU trouble. I think I'll just spend more time with trees from now on.

[SisterNightroad]

I am not poor but I am not rich to where i would receive any kind of tax break or benefit from a trump presidency just like any one else who Makes Less than $450,000.00 a year ( minimum to be in the 1 %)

we and the other 99 of the county will pay more in taxes
I would have bet on the ethnic minority, US is still the "melting pot".
God, 450,000 per year.

[olive]

I would have bet on the ethnic minority, US is still the "melting pot".
God, 450,000 per year.

maybe but somethings should be a mystery :D

yes and that is the bare minimum to get into the club

[MoonSister75]

My fellow countrymen and women have made a mistake of staggering stupidity borne of ignorance and wilful malicious untruths propogated by the Leave campaign and UKIP.



Well that just about sums it up :distress:

[becca]

Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

The main thought I've ever had about David Cameron is I probably couldn't tell him apart from Piers Morgan. It seems rather petulant for him having set this whole vote up to then quit when the result isn't what he expected. Beware of volatile politicians (slow and steady wins the race)? Hopefully some stability and direction will reveal itself. If you only love democracy when it goes the way you want it to maybe you're not really loving democracy?

It seems a large part of Wales and England feel left out of the Euro/Global visions and plans. Anti-immigrant feelings rise when people are under other pressures, and politicians are often very guilty of wanting to import nice convenient blocs of votes regardless of any other benefit existing for the country (aside from the perpetual growth economic model needed to be fed sheer numbers).

Yes, they are saying the more educated the more likely to have voted to have stayed, but there are educated idiots as well as wise farmers.

I could've saved a few bob maybe paying for some British magazines today rather than yesterday, oh well. :shocked:

[olive]

Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

The main thought I've ever had about David Cameron is I probably couldn't tell him apart from Piers Morgan. It seems rather petulant for him having set this whole vote up to then quit when the result isn't what he expected. Beware of volatile politicians (slow and steady wins the race)? Hopefully some stability and direction will reveal itself. If you only love democracy when it goes the way you want it to maybe you're not really loving democracy?

It seems a large part of Wales and England feel left out of the Euro/Global visions and plans. Anti-immigrant feelings rise when people are under other pressures, and politicians are often very guilty of wanting to import nice convenient blocs of votes regardless of any other benefit existing for the country (aside from the perpetual growth economic model needed to be fed sheer numbers).

Yes, they are saying the more educated the more likely to have voted to have stayed, but there are educated idiots as well as wise farmers.

I could've saved a few bob maybe paying for some British magazines today rather than yesterday, oh well. :shocked:

Poorly Educated follow blindly as long as you pander to them

trump calls his followers Poorly Educated i fear the election in November

[SisterNightroad]

Poorly Educated follow blindly as long as you pander to them

trump calls his followers Poorly Educated i fear the election in November
Yes, but I know a lot of educated idiots, fellow university students who at the last referendum forfeited to vote because it was more "democratic" to express dissent by not even going to vote. Studying doesn't mean getting educated sadly. More often is just sticking head in books memorizing rudiments like a parrot while not knowing anything of the world.

[olive]

Yes, but I know a lot of educated idiots, fellow university students who at the last referendum forfeited to vote because it was more "democratic" to express dissent by not even going to vote. Studying doesn't mean getting educated sadly. More often is just sticking head in books memorizing rudiments like a parrot while not knowing anything of the world.

speaking of Poorly Educated she just vomited all this

“The Brexit referendum is akin to our own Declaration of Independence. May that refreshed spirit of sovereignty spread over the pond to America’s shores!

“Congratulations, smart Brits. Good on you for ignoring all the fear mongering from special interest globalists who tend to aim for that apocalyptic One World Government that dissolves a nation’s self-determination and sovereignty… the EU being a One World Government mini-me.

“America can learn an encouraging lesson from this. It is time to dissolve political bands that connect us to agendas not in our best interest. May UN shackles be next on the chopping block.” – Sarah Palin, posting to Facebook.

[SisterNightroad]

speaking of Poorly Educated she just vomited all this

“The Brexit referendum is akin to our own Declaration of Independence. May that refreshed spirit of sovereignty spread over the pond to America’s shores!

“Congratulations, smart Brits. Good on you for ignoring all the fear mongering from special interest globalists who tend to aim for that apocalyptic One World Government that dissolves a nation’s self-determination and sovereignty… the EU being a One World Government mini-me.

“America can learn an encouraging lesson from this. It is time to dissolve political bands that connect us to agendas not in our best interest. May UN shackles be next on the chopping block.” – Sarah Palin, posting to Facebook.
Good god, and I thought Bossi was the worst. I Have heard of this woman, but I thought she was no longer relevant.
What is taught in American schools concerns me, I heard a transfer student say that after the Total War in Italy Christian Democracy won the elections because the US, that couldn't allow that the Socialist/Communist party was probably going to win, gave money to Italians. She was a top student, she defined herself as an "Over-achiever".

[FuzzyPlum]

speaking of Poorly Educated she just vomited all this

“The Brexit referendum is akin to our own Declaration of Independence. May that refreshed spirit of sovereignty spread over the pond to America’s shores!

“Congratulations, smart Brits. Good on you for ignoring all the fear mongering from special interest globalists who tend to aim for that apocalyptic One World Government that dissolves a nation’s self-determination and sovereignty… the EU being a One World Government mini-me.

“America can learn an encouraging lesson from this. It is time to dissolve political bands that connect us to agendas not in our best interest. May UN shackles be next on the chopping block.” – Sarah Palin, posting to Facebook.


Are you espousing the future break-up of the United States of America, then Mrs Palin?

[sue]

I am so sorry , My husband and I keep a flat in London , we have many friends both Brits and immigrants from Germany , Denmark and family from Portugal and Romania there who created new lives ,, have jobs, are going to University and started families in the UK , it is a shames this is fueled by Ignorance and Racism .

I feel really sorry for hard working, tax paying immigrants in the UK......

[SisterNightroad]

Are you espousing the future break-up of the United States of America, then Mrs Palin?
No, because that is beneficial to her wallet. However Europe, with Euro as an important rival of the Dollar in the market, is not beneficial to her wallet, so it's a bad thing. But it's unfortunate that us Europeans still don't know it, we're lucky that there is America ready to break us free.

[olive]

No, because that is beneficial to her wallet. However Europe, with Euro as an important rival of the Dollar in the market, is not beneficial to her wallet, so it's a bad thing. But it's unfortunate that us Europeans still don't know it, we're lucky that there is America ready to break us free.

It would be very nice if that happened if the Deep South and the Bible belt broke away from the rest of the country it would be fantastic

[SisterNightroad]

It would be very nice if that happened if the Deep South and the Bible belt broke away from the rest of the country it would be fantastic
I just hope Katie Couric will interview Donald Trump as well.

[olive]

so it's probably not going to happen
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/24/brexit_might_not_happen.html

[Macfan4life]

Its sad that the most common thing googled in the UK today was "What did we just do? and What is the European Union?" Markets tanked around the world with the average US IRA tanking 15% or more. I lost 25k in my IRA. The instability will continue for years.
Rewinding time, I would not have wanted to join the European Union. I am conservative. But I definitely would not have voted to leave (if that makes sense). Conservatively speaking the UK will lose 1% GNP each year. Great Britian will survive. Its a strong country full of brilliant people. But Britian is not the powerhouse it once was prior to the European Union. For example, Germany would do much better leaving if anyone was to leave.
Nationalism is growing world wide. The IRA's tanked in the USA today but that is nothing compared to when Trump will start a trade war with China. We will lose another 30% then. China finances the debt of the United States and Trump wants to start a trade war with China. Last week Trump was on Fox Business and asked about the Brexit vote. He stated he did not know enough to comment. Today he wants to sound like an expert.
You don't burn down Rome to build it up and make it stronger. Sadly that is what many want to do. We all respect the voters of the UK but don't google the consequences of the vote the next day. That should be done prior to voting.
Reminds me of the UK newspapers in 2004 when Americans re-elected George Bush with a 51% to 49% margin "How could so many Americans be so dumb"
The shoe is on the other foot today.

[SisterNightroad]

so it's probably not going to happen
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/24/brexit_might_not_happen.html
I knew of this, but I think/hope it will not be reverted.

[olive]

I knew of this, but I think/hope it will not be reverted.

lets hope there is an adult who can fix this .

america is already doomed

[FuzzyPlum]

Its sad that the most common thing googled in the UK today was "What did we just do? and What is the European Union?" Markets tanked around the world with the average US IRA tanking 15% or more. I lost 25k in my IRA. The instability will continue for years.
Rewinding time, I would not have wanted to join the European Union. I am conservative. But I definitely would not have voted to leave (if that makes sense). Conservatively speaking the UK will lose 1% GNP each year. Great Britian will survive. Its a strong country full of brilliant people. But Britian is not the powerhouse it once was prior to the European Union. For example, Germany would do much better leaving if anyone was to leave.
Nationalism is growing world wide. The IRA's tanked in the USA today but that is nothing compared to when Trump will start a trade war with China. We will lose another 30% then. China finances the debt of the United States and Trump wants to start a trade war with China. Last week Trump was on Fox Business and asked about the Brexit vote. He stated he did not know enough to comment. Today he wants to sound like an expert.
You don't burn down Rome to build it up and make it stronger. Sadly that is what many want to do. We all respect the voters of the UK but don't google the consequences of the vote the next day. That should be done prior to voting.
Reminds me of the UK newspapers in 2004 when Americans re-elected George Bush with a 51% to 49% margin "How could so many Americans be so dumb"
The shoe is on the other foot today.


Yeah- absolutely. I swear, everywhere I went today people were so solemn. I think there are so many (stoopid) people that would take back their vote if they had the chance. Too many people took this far too lightly- unfortunately our politicians reduced the arguments to peurile ones and didn't really properly emphasise the true ramifications that an exit vote would have on the average persons life.

[SisterNightroad]

Its sad that the most common thing googled in the UK today was "What did we just do? and What is the European Union?" Markets tanked around the world with the average US IRA tanking 15% or more. I lost 25k in my IRA. The instability will continue for years.
Rewinding time, I would not have wanted to join the European Union. I am conservative. But I definitely would not have voted to leave (if that makes sense). Conservatively speaking the UK will lose 1% GNP each year. Great Britian will survive. Its a strong country full of brilliant people. But Britian is not the powerhouse it once was prior to the European Union. For example, Germany would do much better leaving if anyone was to leave.
Nationalism is growing world wide. The IRA's tanked in the USA today but that is nothing compared to when Trump will start a trade war with China. We will lose another 30% then. China finances the debt of the United States and Trump wants to start a trade war with China. Last week Trump was on Fox Business and asked about the Brexit vote. He stated he did not know enough to comment. Today he wants to sound like an expert.
You don't burn down Rome to build it up and make it stronger. Sadly that is what many want to do. We all respect the voters of the UK but don't google the consequences of the vote the next day. That should be done prior to voting.
Reminds me of the UK newspapers in 2004 when Americans re-elected George Bush with a 51% to 49% margin "How could so many Americans be so dumb"
The shoe is on the other foot today.
I'm not sure if it was the first or the second mandate but Bush won because he asked for a re-count, and in the US the vote result is different based on how you count it because not every vote has the same worth.

[FuzzyPlum]

Unfortunately had a falling out with my mum on the phone tonight...

over the last couple of years she's been banging on about UKIP.
She lives in Blackwood in South Wales (near Caerphilly). The whole of that region has undergone huge regeneration over recent years. In fact, Blackwood and some of the surrounding valley towns are completely unrecognisable from what they were ten or fifteen years ago. This is mostly due to EU grants. And yet, the majority of Wales (including that specific region by about 58% to 42%) have voted to leave the EU. Crazy!

Just today while on holiday she and her partner completed on a holiday home in the South of Spain.
'How the hell can you justify voting for independence whilst at the same time buying property in an EU country?'

Furthermore,
'mum, though we don't know exactly how things will pan out, there's a chance that within a couple of years you might not even be able to live in your house in Spain now that we aren't part of the EU'

Crazy. It does annoy me that insular older people have had a huge impact on our country whilst being largely ignorant of what and why they are voting for.

[Macfan4life]

Alarmed Britons ask pollsters...Why did you not warn us?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alarmed-britons-ask-pollsters-why-didn%e2%80%99t-you-warn-us/ar-AAhAv7Z?li=BBnb7Kz

[SisterNightroad]

Unfortunately had a falling out with my mum on the phone tonight...

over the last couple of years she's been banging on about UKIP.
She lives in Blackwood in South Wales (near Caerphilly). The whole of that region has undergone huge regeneration over recent years. In fact, Blackwood and some of the surrounding valley towns are completely unrecognisable from what they were ten or fifteen years ago. This is mostly due to EU grants. And yet, the majority of Wales (including that specific region by about 58% to 42%) have voted to leave the EU. Crazy!

Just today while on holiday she and her partner completed on a holiday home in the South of Spain.
'How the hell can you justify voting for independence whilst at the same time buying property in an EU country?'

Furthermore,
'mum, though we don't know exactly how things will pan out, there's a chance that within a couple of years you might not even be able to live in your house in Spain now that we aren't part of the EU'

Crazy. It does annoy me that insular older people have had a huge impact on our country whilst being largely ignorant of what and why they are voting for.
My mother is conservative/racist too. I bickered with her just the other day because of that.
But what's worse is that usually young people are even more racist and conservative that elders. Most of my peers just like to say that we don't have jobs because immigrants stole them from us, but they don't want to recognize that those immigrants do all the humble jobs that they wouldn't ever do even overpayed.

[olive]

My mother is conservative/racist too. I bickered with her just the other day because of that.
But what's worse is that usually young people are even more racist and conservative that elders. Most of my peers just like to say that we don't have jobs because immigrants stole them from us, but they don't want to recognize that those immigrants do all the humble jobs that they wouldn't ever do even overpayed.

it's the same here they scream about the jobs , maids , gardeners , dishwashers , cleaners in offices after hours , dirty work and fast food jobs no American wants or can do


Few Americans take immigrants' jobs in Alabama
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/few-americans-take-immigrants-jobs-in-alabama/

[FuzzyPlum]

Just watching the evening news and the usual 'typical members of the public talking heads' they bring out...
'...our country is just sinking with all the immigrants'.
I just want to scream. What the 'uck are you talking about- sinking with immigrants? no it isn't. That's just a stock phrase that means nothing.
In part due to immigrants our economy is presently booming.
Aaaarrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
You ignorant @*^K's

[FuzzyPlum]

http://www.brookson.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/CltL7MtVEAA9j7y.png

According to the various voter data it seems;

More educated/affluent/young = Remain
Less educated/poorer/old = Leave

[Macfanforever]

Yes, but I know a lot of educated idiots, fellow university students who at the last referendum forfeited to vote because it was more "democratic" to express dissent by not even going to vote. Studying doesn't mean getting educated sadly. More often is just sticking head in books memorizing rudiments like a parrot while not knowing anything of the world.

Yes.I agree.

Poorly Educated follow blindly as long as you pander to them

trump calls his followers Poorly Educated i fear the election in November

Don't worry.Hillary will get in as shenanigans will work her way.

Maybe the demi voters he is referring too since I've been watching more of his speeches and have not heard him saying that..True and false.Putting up with the disinformation the sided press is putting out can screw peoples minds up.the same with the brexit vote .The crap the media dishes out and it could influence the vote.

Are you espousing the future break-up of the United States of America, then Mrs Palin?

Palin has the looks but shes airhead like I always said.Too bad the late shows cant use blonde jokes against her.

I just hope Katie Couric will interview Donald Trump as well.

Couric is an idiot like the rest of the establishment left media power houses.Just look at the hack editing job on her gun report last month.Her guests had something to say but her staff edit out what they had to say and the final cut was to have them just steer at her after the questions were asked.

Maybe she should get fired like Brian Williams .What he did was not bad compared to these politicians like Hillary lying 24/7 on the news .

lets hope there is an adult who can fix this .

america is already doomed

Trump or the 3 party can but not crooked Hillary can.Speaking of doomed .She will bring us down to zero.

it's the same here they scream about the jobs , maids , gardeners , dishwashers , cleaners in offices after hours , dirty work and fast food jobs no American wants or can do


Few Americans take immigrants' jobs in Alabama
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/few-americans-take-immigrants-jobs-in-alabama/


I agree on that.Also add farm work too.

[Sapphire Girl]

As a member of the 1 % I'm sure you and the rest of rich white America will be ok under a trump presidency .

You mean people like Oprah, Beyonce, and P Diddy make less than 450,000/year? :shocked:

the rest of us 99er's will not .*snip*

I'm in the bottom 37% at $40,000 but, unlike you, I don't have any class envy.

[becca]

I'm sort of puzzled by the stat that older people went more for the leave option wanting things to 'go back to how they were'? The good old days? Of when? The '60s maybe, because the '70s were awash in power outages and work stoppages. I tend to feel the same about someone making America great again, that you can't go backward really, and when exactly was this golden era anyway?

I might be happy to go back to the Yorkshire of my ancestors, but can I be guaranteed of not starving and will my stone house in the paddocks with the ewes not be taken from someone else? I thought as much... :rolleyes:

[olive]

You mean people like Oprah, Beyonce, and P Diddy make less than 450,000/year? :shocked:



I'm in the bottom 37% at $40,000 but, unlike you, I don't have any class envy.

Class envy ? Where do you get that from? I am curious to hear how you came to that conclusion... my husband pissed his pants laughing when I told him someone thought I had Class Envy

[MoonSister75]

Just watching the evening news and the usual 'typical members of the public talking heads' they bring out...
'...our country is just sinking with all the immigrants'.
I just want to scream. What the 'uck are you talking about- sinking with immigrants? no it isn't. That's just a stock phrase that means nothing.
In part due to immigrants our economy is presently booming.
Aaaarrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
You ignorant @*^K's

I'm sort of puzzled by the stat that older people went more for the leave option wanting things to 'go back to how they were'? The good old days? Of when? The '60s maybe, because the '70s were awash in power outages and work stoppages. I tend to feel the same about someone making America great again, that you can't go backward really, and when exactly was this golden era anyway?

I might be happy to go back to the Yorkshire of my ancestors, but can I be guaranteed of not starving and will my stone house in the paddocks with the ewes not be taken from someone else? I thought as much... :rolleyes:

​This is just so so awful....I just woke up thinking of the Europeans friends I have that live in this area - French, Polish, German, Czech, Swiss, some married to Brits so they will be ok, but some aren't - their kids are settled in schools, someone's mum is here helping to look after her daughters children. All these people work, all contribute to the community and make this a better place to live. Is this all going to change? If so, this is just appalling. How has this been allowed to happen?!

I heard yesterday that it was the older voters that had voted to Leave (I met some of them yesterday and they were looking very pleased with themselves). Like we all want to go back to effing 1975?!! A vast proportion of the country don't want this, and most young people don't want this. I just can not believe this is going to happen.

How is this country going to be if all these Europeans have to leave? Much worse off in my eyes, and not a country I want to be in :( :mad:

I had permanently residency for Australia at one point in my life, I'm starting to wish I'd kept it instead of letting it go.

[MoonSister75]

Unfortunately had a falling out with my mum on the phone tonight...

over the last couple of years she's been banging on about UKIP.
She lives in Blackwood in South Wales (near Caerphilly). The whole of that region has undergone huge regeneration over recent years. In fact, Blackwood and some of the surrounding valley towns are completely unrecognisable from what they were ten or fifteen years ago. This is mostly due to EU grants. And yet, the majority of Wales (including that specific region by about 58% to 42%) have voted to leave the EU. Crazy!

Just today while on holiday she and her partner completed on a holiday home in the South of Spain.
'How the hell can you justify voting for independence whilst at the same time buying property in an EU country?'

Furthermore,
'mum, though we don't know exactly how things will pan out, there's a chance that within a couple of years you might not even be able to live in your house in Spain now that we aren't part of the EU'

Crazy. It does annoy me that insular older people have had a huge impact on our country whilst being largely ignorant of what and why they are voting for.

I have had many phone fall-outs with my parents

My parents are currently in Lanzarote after recently buying a villa there. Their plan is to sell their house in the UK and live their permanently​. If they sell their UK house they have said they'll help me to buy a house.

Last year they told me how pleased they were with the Conservative win and how much they liked David Cameron, knowing that I would never vote right-wing.

Now look what has happened with this vote.... as yu mentioned ,will they even be able to live in their villa in a couple of years from now?

I haven't spoken to them yet, I have no idea of their reaction to this.

I have an Auntie and Uncle that have lived in France for over 10years - my uncle really struggles with his health in the UK because of a lung condition and everyone is certain he has only reached 87 because they moved over there away from the cold, damp North of England. Will they have to come back?

This is one big mess of epic proportion. I'm taking my daughter to a local fun day today and the dance show tonight, something we were really looking forward to, but I've just woken up feeling so bleak, which I will now try my hardest to shake off....

[MoonSister75]

An article about Europeans living and working in the UK

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/i-dont-understand-the-anger-how-the-europeans-in-london-see-brexit


Can we organise a mass protest please with millions hitting the streets. I'll be there :mad:

[iamnotafraid]

I have had many phone fall-outs with my parents

This is one big mess of epic proportion. I'm taking my daughter to a local fun day today and the dance show tonight, something we were really looking forward to, but I've just woken up feeling so bleak, which I will now try my hardest to shake off....

I'd say turn off the news for awhile. And forget about it.
Unless you have investments to tend to, just enjoy the time
with your daughter.

While I wouldn't say ignorance is bliss. Sometimes when
I'm overwhelmed by what's going on in America I try to
remind myself - if I didn't know what was going on would
I be carrying such a heavy burden? Meaning, if you hadn't
seen it on TV, or read about it on the internet would
you even notice a difference?

I'm not giving my opinion on the vote itself. We have our
problems here in the United States. If I didn't believe in God,
if I didn't read His Word and know that He is in control. Then
yes, I'd be worried.

[MoonSister75]

I'd say turn off the news for awhile. And forget about it.
Unless you have investments to tend to, just enjoy the time
with your daughter.



Yes very true, and important advice. I deliberately haven't put the TV or Radio on this morning, just read this thread and small amount of news on the internet.

Its just such a big shock for the country as a whole, and I just know so many people that will be affected by this.

edit... bleak was probably the wrong word, shocked and saddened is probably more appropriate. We will definitely still enjoy our day.

[SisterNightroad]

This is a very hot topic for me because a lot of University studets and new graduates that I know, since here jobs don't exist, have headed or decided to head to England. My bestfriend wanted to go to England. My sister has to accompany some High.school students to England this summer. This changes everything for them. I know people who are currently in Britain that have been downright mistreated because they're Italian. And I know that to go to England as a University student you have meet impossible standards, not only have top notch grades, and in the meantime you have to work. I heard a girl yesterday say that a friend of her in Oxford has been cornered by an UKIP madwoman. There's been tension for students for a long while and now it's even worse. I'm worried for those who are in Britain or have to go there.

[becca]

The 'Leave' leaders don't seem to be doing that much, maybe they didn't expect to win either? They definitely need to appeal to the humanity in people after possibly arousing (or pandering to) the mob in them. Even if, ludicrous though it seems, some Italian or Polish person did something somebody didn't like, got something someone else was envious of, what does this have to do with being uncivil or rude to others. There really is no excuse but some will go to great lengths to find an excuse unfortunately. :distress:

While I say just knowing what's going on is doing something, yes, you have to focus on the immediate sometimes to for balance. I'm blessed I have a yard with butterflies and deer and squirrels (who so far as I can tell have yet to damage the house in any way and become 'varmints').

Oh, I heard the oldsters are worried about the NHS which is understandable, but they think that money that went to the EU will go into that now which seems overly optimistic. Somebody hasn't been doing their job though if there is a lack of doctors and nurses... we have the same problems here though and I don't think anyone has tied it in to immigration. In fact immigration is seen as a solution but with the red tape and unions we have foreign trained medical people driving taxis.

[MoonSister75]

Is there hope?!?

I'm reminded here that there is always hope :angel:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/petition-second-eu-referendum-crashes-house-of-commons-website


Petition to hold second EU referendum reaches 2m signatures

House of Commons website sees unprecedented traffic for record-breaking petition

Round two? The Commons website crashed after experiencing a higher volume of simultaneous users than ever before.

James Tapper

Saturday 25 June 2016 18.23 BST Last modified on Saturday 25 June 2016 18.47 BST

The backlash against Brexit has strengthened with more than 2 million people signed a parliamentary petition calling for a second EU referendum.

Demand for a fresh vote was so high that it crashed the parliament.uk website on Friday as the petition was shared widely on social media and new signatures were added at a rate of more than 100,000 an hour.

By 6pm on Saturday, more than 146,000 people had signed another petition calling on the London mayor to declare the capital independent from the UK so that it could stay in the EU, with supporters tweeting under the hashtag #londependence.

Senior Labour figures also called for parliament to overturn the referendum result. David Lammy, the MP for Tottenham, said: “Wake up. We do not have to do this. We can stop this madness and bring this nightmare to an end through a vote in parliament. Our sovereign parliament needs to now vote on whether we should exit the EU.

“The referendum was an advisory, non-binding referendum. The leave campaign’s platform has already unravelled and some people wish they hadn’t voted to leave. Parliament now needs to decide whether we should go forward with Brexit and there should be a vote in parliament next week.

“Let us not destroy our economy on the basis of lies and the hubris of Boris Johnson.”

The petition for a second EU referendum was set up by William Oliver Healey on 25 May. He wrote: “We the undersigned call upon HM government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum.”

A parliament.uk map showed support for a second referendum was strongest in urban constituencies including Bristol West, Hornsey and Wood Green, and Jeremy Corbyn’s Islington North constituency, where more than 10,000 people signed the petition.
The lowest appetite was in Scotland, where some constituencies showed fewer than 500 supporters, although these areas have sparser populations on the whole.

Parliament must consider all petitions that reach a threshold of 100,000 votes. Few, however, reach 200,000. The most popular previous petition, with 823,346 signatories asking the government to give meningitis B vaccines to all children. A petition calling for Donald Trump to be barred from the UK was signed by 586,935 people.
:rolleyes:
In London, a growing number of people have been backing a debate about the future of the capital, where 70% rejected Brexit. Within 24 hours the petition on Change.org had been signed by more than 120,000 people, who backed freelance writer James O’Malley’s call: “Declare London independent from the UK and apply to join the EU”.

Supporter John Gowers wrote: “In a typical year, London contributes £10bn to £20bn to the rest of the UK and receives nothing in return. London has no control over its borders while it remains a member of the UK.”

[SisterNightroad]

There's a slight similarity of style between Boris Johnson and Donald Trump.

[MoonSister75]

I detected a fairly quiet, sombre mood around this area today. Certainly no feeling of celebration, just one of shock. The adults didn't look like they were having much fun at the fun-day I attended, although thankfully the kids were. People seemed to be having difficulty even talking about the result of this vote, although I did manage to talk to a few friends about it. I'm sure there's a general sense of "what the f*ck have we done?" and fear about what will happen to the country now.

In the midst of my despair today I heard a Radio 4 comedy programme on the car radio which had me in fits of laughter. Basically a very good piss take of politicians (including Boris and Donald) and others involved in this campaign. Here's the link for anyone is interested and can access it, it starts at 03.50. It was great laughter therapy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07glx81

[Mr Scarrott]

Another day gone after this disaster and if anything I feel worse. I chatted to a good friend on the phone who has always been an EU-sceptic but who always saw the value of the aim of the Four Freedoms- the freedom of goods, services, capital and workers to circulate throughout the EU. I actually broke down in tears again and couldn't carry on with the call.

Aghast at the tone of the campaign, he had decided that the only noble thing for him to do was to abstain from voting. He had sent me this text:


What a bittersweet victory. I always wanted this but not this way, not for these reasons. I feel a bit like an Italian who just wanted the trains to run on time and got Mussolini.

And now we face the heightened possibilty of losing Scotland from our own United Kingdom with the Scottish Labour party considering all options (https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/uk-regions/scotland/news/76576/scottish-labour-consider-all-options-amid-second-independence).

The European Union has its faults, but I was always proud to have an element of shared citizenship with people from Ireland to Cyprus , from Spain to Estonia, from Finland to
Malta. I face losing that now. For we English to lose our shared citizenship with the Scots would be unbearable.

There is however, some hope to avoid Brexit here. If Scottish Labour threatens to advocate independence, it could blackmail the Tories at Westminster to abandon Brexit in order to save the United Kingdom. It could backfire, but it is our only hope.

[Macfanforever]

Whats going to happen with the PM position as David Cameron steps down..

[Mr Scarrott]

Cameron is staying on as caretaker Prime Minister until the Conservative party elects a new leader. I hope that Theresa May, the Home Secretary gets it. This would at least deny the opportunist Boris Johnson the prize he so clearly craved. He only supported Brexit to try to get the top job.

Conservative MPs choose two candidates to put to the party membership as a whole. If Johnson is one of those he may get it as Conservative party members are generally more pro Brexit than the party's MPs. Theresa May would be a better bet and has proven herself to be a competent Home Secretary and could unify the party more effectively.

I'm not a Conservative, by the way.

[MoonSister75]

As I sat watching a performance of Peter Pan last night by a local dance school, I looked around the audience in their pensive post referendum mood, as well as watching the children on the stage. With sadness and dismay, I kept thinking of the influence that the pro-brexit voters have had on the future of our children and what it has done to their country. Anyway I just read this article and it seemed relevant to my thoughts, (particularly the photo and caption at the top of the article) :distress:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/second-referendum-consequences-brexit-grave


We need a second referendum. The consequences of Brexit are too grave

David Lammy

Economic disaster and the destruction of the union with Scotland loom. At the very least we need another vote

Young anti-Brexit protesters outside Downing Street, 25 June 2016: ‘Are we going to let our links with the outside world be cast aside, leaving our children to grow up without the same opportunities for travel, study and cultural exchange that my generation has taken for granted?’ Photograph: Isabel Infantes/PA


Leadership is about tough choices. Politics is about standing up for what you believe in, and as a member of parliament it is about standing up for your constituents – three-quarters of mine voted to remain in the European Union and they will be the first to suffer when the post-Brexit recession hits.

The impact of an economic downturn on my constituents is too devastating to contemplate. The impact will be similarly catastrophic across whole swaths of our country, especially in areas that are already struggling. In the manmade recession to follow, the worse off you are, the worse your future will be.

We need to get real, quickly: $2tn was wiped off global markets on Friday; the pound has plummeted; and Moody’s has already downgraded our credit rating from “stable” to “negative”. A Brexit would be self-immolation.

Nigel Farage and his gang of Brexiteers would have never quit or given up the fight on the basis of a result that was this close. You can’t write off 48% of voters without a serious fight, and we cannot usher in rule by plebiscite which unleashes the “wisdom” of resentment and prejudice reminiscent of 1930s Europe.

Are we simply going to stand idly by and let a recession caused by the hubris of Boris Johnson push more and more people into poverty? Are we going to let our links with the outside world be cast aside, leaving our children to grow up without the same opportunities for travel, study and cultural exchange that my generation have taken for granted?

Since Friday morning Britain has woken up to a hangover of nightmarish proportions. We could all see from the look on the faces of Johnson and Michael Gove that they know that they will be managing a perpetual decline in our economy and our national standing and reputation.

It is very clear that the leave campaigners do not have the slightest semblance of a plan. The promises that the campaign was built on were nothing more than a pack of lies. Before bedtime on Friday the claims about £350m extra cash to spend on public services and the ending of free movement of labour had already unravelled before our eyes.

The future of our country, of our young people and of their children and grandchildren is too much to throw away on the basis of a duplicitous campaign that has already fallen apart.

It is clear that people are angry with the political class and that, with the European Union coming to represent everything that is wrong with our country, they took this opportunity to give the establishment a kicking. But is Johnson going to care about these disaffected people who feel left out and let down? Not a jot. We are slowly waking up to the fact that the emperor has no clothes. Is a post-Brexit government going to inject money into the areas that lose out on employers and investment because we leave the European Union? Not a chance in hell.

The referendum was advisory and non-binding, in contrast to the referendum on electoral reform in 2011 which imposed a legal obligation on the government to legislate. Almost 500 members of parliament declared themselves in favour of remain, and it is within their powers to stop this madness through a vote in parliament.

It is also within parliament’s powers to call a second referendum, now that the dust has begun to settle and the reality of a post-Brexit nation is coming into view. We need a second referendum at the very least, on the basis of a plan that is yet to even be drawn up.

Since the referendum it has also become apparent that if the UK leaves the European Union the break-up of the union will swiftly follow if Scotland gains independence and Northern Ireland is unified with the Republic of Ireland. Are we ready and willing to dismantle our nation? We weren’t asked this, and it was not a factor widely considered by voters on Thursday.

Of course we must recognise what has happened and address the decades of decline in the regions that voted leave which are the root cause of the backlash we have seen. We need to rebalance our economy and our country by devolving power away from Westminster and bolstering investment and opportunities away from London and the south-east.

Nevertheless the consequences of exiting Europe are grave. I have a simple message to all those who believe in remaining in Europe. We have to fight for our economic future, for our children’s future and for the country that we want to be. Speak out, sign the petition and tell your MP to ask for a vote.

[MoonSister75]

Also more news on Nicola Sturgeon

Nicola Sturgeon: Scottish parliament could block Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit

Who knows what will happen from here :confused::confused:

[MoonSister75]

I listened to a government official say yesterday (in a very shaky voice) that they have nowhere near the amount of resources, skills, people etc necessary to implement this change. I can't even begin to think of the mountains of work needed to change all the policies and procedures to un-link us from the EU, after 40 years of building the relationship to its current position.

[Macfan4life]

I listened to a government official say yesterday (in a very shaky voice) that they have nowhere near the amount of resources, skills, people etc necessary to implement this change. I can't even begin to think of the mountains of work needed to change all the policies and procedures to un-link us from the EU, after 40 years of building the relationship to its current position.
I don't think the EU cares much about that. They want Great Britian out immediately. Part punishment and part warning to other members. The economic turmoil will be felt immediately and it will be harsh. The EU wants a poster child for leaving. They will not accept a gradual leave.

Most people vote emotions. We have that here in the states too. I imagine myself a Brit and how I would have voted. Yes, it would feel good to tell Europe "screw you", feel independent, cause attention, and feel powerful. But what price? To leave one of the worlds largest trading blocks, cause a 10 year economic crisis, downgrade the credit for the country, raise interest rates to borrow money, freeze any international investments in the country, and slow GNP. Do the older people not want to give their children a stronger country?
That "feel good" feeling after voting to leave would not last very long. The word globalization has such a negative context. But we need eachother. Look at Argentina. For decades they stopped imports and said the country will be strong by only making and buying products made in Argentina. Euros and dollars were forbidden because of the evils of "globalization." The country turned inward away from the global stage. It is all nationalistic and sounds like heaven. Argentina plummeted into economic chaos. Foreign investment ran away faster than ever. After decades of this nonsense the country finally elected a new conservative leader who is bringing change, opening Argentina, paying debts, etc.


We have that in the United States too. Trump stands for nothing but rage and anger. He has no principles except for himself and has been on every side of every issue about 10 times. 20% of Bernie Sanders voters say they will vote Trump. Those are the emotional voters who don't have principles but only rage. Bernie Sanders and Trump have nothing in common and Bernie has fought his entire life against people like Trump. But even Sanders's voters are full of rage. There is no way a government can give away free stuff to its people and sustain a 17 trillion dollar debt. Everyone is pissed off but you don't burn down Rome because it feels good. You will have to live with the consequences. A Trump victory would drop world markets worse than the Brexit vote. Trade wars would begin with China and China finances the debt of the United States. China definitely has the upper hand since they own part of us. Americans would lose another 20% in the IRA's. But hey at least 45% of Americans don't care and will vote for Trump. That number will probably go up but that is a base for him. We are living in a scary time where people actually intend to cause harm to their own country to make political points.

[MoonSister75]

It looks like those in power are trying to slow things down

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/who-will-dare-pull-trigger-article-50-eu


Will article 50 ever be triggered?
The PM has said he will hand the task of starting the Brexit process to his successor, giving hope to remain supporters

Jon Henley in Brussels


@jonhenley

Sunday 26 June 2016 14.04 BST Last modified on Sunday 26 June 2016 18.00 BST

When David Cameron delivered his resignation speech outside No 10 on Friday, he said he would leave the task of triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty – the untested procedure governing how an EU member state leaves the bloc – to his successor.

This has prompted much speculation – and a glimmer of hope for those who want Britain to remain in the European Union. Cameron, they argue, had repeatedly said during the campaign that article 50 would be triggered immediately if Vote Leave were to win the Brexit referendum.

By not doing so, the theory is, and by bequeathing the responsibility to whoever succeeds him, Cameron has handed the next prime minister a poisoned chalice. Given the dramatic reaction to Brexit – on world stock markets, on the foreign exchanges, in Scotland, across Europe – and with the enormity of the consequences of leaving the EU now plain, who will dare pull the trigger?

One consequence of this, as a below-the-line commenter argued on the Guardian website, is that Cameron has effectively snookered the Brexit camp: they may have won the referendum, but they cannot use the mandate they have been given because if they do so they will be seen to be knowingly condemning the UK to recession, breakup and years of pain.

This could mean, as lawyer and writer David Allen Green has suggested in a blogpost, that “the longer article 50 notification is put off, the greater the chance it will never be made ... As long as the notification is not sent, the UK remains part of the EU. And there is currently no reason or evidence to believe that, regardless of the referendum result, the notification will be sent at all.”

Is this feasible? Certainly, leading Brexit campaigners, including Boris Johnson and Matthew Elliott, who ran Vote Leave, have said very clearly they are in no hurry to push the button.

They argue it is far more sensible to hold informal talks with Brussels, and other member states, in order to arrive at the outline of a possible settlement before locking Britain into the strict two-year timeframe within which article 50 negotiations must be concluded (and if they are not, Britain risks having to leave the EU with no deal at all).

In Brussels and other EU capitals, the UK’s heel-dragging is already causing great frustration. European foreign ministers and EU leaders have lined up this weekend to impress on Britain the need for urgency. Brexit talks must begin “immediately”, they said, so as to avoid a sustained period of uncertainty and instability that, with Euroscepticism on the rise across the continent, could do great damage to the already weakened bloc.

But there seems to be no immediate legal means out of the stalemate. It is entirely up to the departing member state to trigger article 50, by issuing formal notification of intention to leave: no one, in Brussels, Berlin or Paris, can force it to. But equally, there is nothing in article 50 that obliges the EU to open talks – including the informal talks the Brexit leaders want – before formal notification has been made.

“There is no mechanism to compel a state to withdraw from the European Union,” said Kenneth Armstrong, professor of European law at Cambridge University. “Article 50 is there to allow withdrawal, but no other party has the right to invoke article 50, no other state or institution. While delay is highly undesirable politically, legally there is nothing that can compel a state to withdraw.”

The president of the European parliament, Martin Schulz, has said he expects Cameron to initiate the process on Tuesday evening, making the formal announcement that Britain intends to exit the EU at the summit dinner he is due to address before going home and leaving – for the first time – the other 27 member states to discuss Britain’s situation without him the following day.

The European council has confirmed that notification does not have to be in writing, but could be in the form of a formal statement to the summit – so Cameron had better be careful about what exactly he says.

But reports in German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung, among others, that an increasingly frustrated EU could, if push comes to shove, decide to consider the referendum result itself as “an official wish to leave” seem unreliable. “The notification of article 50 is a formal act and has to be done by the British government to the European council,” an EU official told Reuters.

“It has to be done in an unequivocal manner, with the explicit intent to trigger article 50. Negotiations to leave and on the future relationship can only begin after such a formal notification. If it is indeed the intention of the British government to leave the EU, it is therefore in its interest to notify as soon as possible.”

Carl Bildt, the former Swedish prime minister, has said “de facto ejection” is a possibility unless Britain gets a move on, but it is unclear on what grounds that could happen. Article 7 of the Lisbon treaty allows the EU to suspend a member if it deems it to be in breach of basic principles of freedom, democracy, equality and rule of law. But that would be the nuclear option.

The situation could get quite nasty, quite quickly. Politically, the pressure on Cameron – and on his successor, whoever that may be – could be extreme. But legally, there does not appear to be any easy way out. If Britain so chooses, this could become a standoff that could drag on for years.

[MoonSister75]

And this too..

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/fightback-against-brexit-on-cards-remain-eu-referendum-heseltine

Parliamentary fightback against Brexit on cards

Pro-remain figures urge second EU referendum, with Lord Heseltine pointing to majority in Commons against leaving

Michael Heseltine is calling for a cross-party group of MPs to ‘articulate the case for Britain rethinking the result of the referendum’. Photograph: Andy Hall for the Observer


Anushka Asthana Political editor

Sunday 26 June 2016 17.10 BST Last modified on Sunday 26 June 2016 19.26 BST

The prospect of a parliamentary fightback against the result of the EU referendum gathered pace on Sunday, with pro-remain figures saying they would not “roll over and give up”.

Some are urging a second referendum after Brexit negotiations have taken place.

Lord Heseltine has pointed to the practicalities of an overwhelming majority in the House of Commons against leaving the EU. “There is a majority of something like 350 in the House of Commons broadly in favour of the European relationship,” he said.

“There is no way you are going to get those people to say black is white and change their minds unless a) they know what the deal is and b) it has been supported either by an election or by another referendum,” Heseltine told Sky News. “So there’s a dramatic urgency to get on with the negotiations.

He called for a cross-party group of MPs to look at the options and “articulate the case for Britain rethinking the result of the referendum”.

Earlier, Tony Blair, the former prime minister, said nothing should be ruled out. “As I’m looking at it here, I can’t see how we can do that. But, you know, the point is, why rule anything out right now?” Blair said the nation needed to consider the consequences of Brexit over the coming weeks and months.

But he added: “I can’t see how you would go through all of the mechanics of another referendum now, I just can’t see it.”

Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, said his party would not “roll over and give up” over the issue, pledging to fight the next general election on a manifesto promise to take Britain back into the EU. “We are determined to speak to the values that 16 million voted for, and many of the 17 million as well, that Britain is an outward-looking country, not one that isolates itself,” he told the Guardian. “Like all my predecessors I will stand committed to the UK being in the EU.”

Farron said the party recognised the legitimacy of the referendum but would not give up.

Farron’s view is backed up by Labour MP, David Lammy, who said he wanted to meet the Lib Dem leader to discuss the issue. “Economic disaster and the destruction of the union with Scotland loom,” Lammy said. “At the very least we need another vote.”

Writing in the Guardian, Lammy said: “The referendum was advisory and non-binding, in contrast to the referendum on electoral reform in 2011, which imposed a legal obligation on the government to legislate. Almost 500 members of parliament declared themselves in favour of remain, and it is within their powers to stop this madness through a vote in parliament.

“It is also within parliament’s powers to call a second referendum, now that the dust has begun to settle and the reality of a post-Brexit nation is coming into view. We need a second referendum at the very least, on the basis of a plan that is yet to even be drawn up.”

[FuzzyPlum]

It's with a heavy heart I have to say they need to get on and start planning the exit sooner rather than later. There is nothing worse for the financial markets than uncertainty so it does nothing for the financial state of the country to delay things.

The Conservative party leadership battle is going to be very interesting. The way it's panning out I can see a straight IN/OUT election between BoJo and Theresa May. Like many I've always had a soft spot for Boris. On this occasion I don't know what to think. Part of me hopes the wider Tory party see him as a traitor and back TM. At the same time, I think it would be awkward for a pro-EU leader to be negotiating an exit. Perhaps a pro-exit leader would feel more committed to doing an effective job- I just don't know.

What I do know is there's no point clinging to the notion of a re-vote. It just isn't going to happen...its over, we are out, we now need to move on.

With the Labour leadership seemingly crumbling, British politics is in a right mess. Perhaps this should be an opportunity for a new political landscape...tear up traditional party divides and formulate new allegiances. Strange times ahead indeed.

[Jondalar]

They made a choice and they didn't follow a formula. Hurray for them

[Mr Scarrott]

I no longer recognise my country as the one I have loved all my life.

[FuzzyPlum]

They made a choice and they didn't follow a formula. Hurray for them

Hurray for who? The huge number of idiots that now seemingly regret their actions?
Too many people saying 'I didn't really know the consequences. It was a protest vote' etc etc.
America, be warned of the consequences of protest votes!

[Jondalar]

Hurray for who? The huge number of idiots that now seemingly regret their actions?
Too many people saying 'I didn't really know the consequences. It was a protest vote' etc etc.
America, be warned of the consequences of protest votes!

Regrets my behind. They can't take it back now. Im sure there are plenty of people who like that decision.

[Macfan4life]

They made a choice and they didn't follow a formula. Hurray for them
Horray for credit downgrade
Horray for decreases in GNP
Horray for higher unemployment
Horray for isolation
Horray for more dependence on government services
Horray for uncertainty for 10 years with no plan
Horray for losing world power
Horray for higher interest rates

[FuzzyPlum]

Horray for credit downgrade
Horray for decreases in GNP
Horray for higher unemployment
Horray for isolation
Horray for more dependence on government services
Horray for uncertainty for 10 years with no plan
Horray for losing world power
Horray for higher interest rates

...and mark my words- we'll never again win the Eurovision song contest. No bugger will ever vote for us now! :mad:

[SisterNightroad]

They made a choice and they didn't follow a formula. Hurray for them
The only decisions to be proud of, even even if they turn out to be wrong, are the are well-informed ones.

[olive]

Regrets my behind. They can't take it back now. Im sure there are plenty of people who like that decision.

the Stupid and the Racist are.

The ignorant/poorly educated were until they googled the aftermath of their poor decision the next day .

[Jondalar]

Who will be the next to leave? Bet the Brits aren't the only one.

[MoonSister75]

This is an example of why so many voters are regretting their decision to Leave, realising they believed in a pack of lies. One of our ugliest (in my opinion) but very popular right wing papers encouraged voters to leave and then immediately after the referendum told them how bad things were now going to be for them financially.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/the-sun-has-also-got-around-to-telling-its-readers-what-brexit-will-mean-and-they-are-not-happy--WySvafrAVZ

Why were so many people intent on wrecking our country, by encouraging most the population who has no idea about economics, to leave the EU. I just don't understand :shrug:

I'm just praying the government can sort out this mess.

[sue]

Becoming the next leader of the Conservatives will be a poisoned chalice as he/she as Prime Minister will have to activate Article 50, and will then be responsible for our departure from The EU.....and the possible breakup of the Union with Scotland.

Cameron who called the referendum (and did not have to) will be well gone before the real turmoil ensues.


..............In fact he will be on his way to The House of Lords........

[MoonSister75]

Becoming the next leader of the Conservatives will be a poisoned chalice as he/she as Prime Minister will have to activate Article 50, and will then be responsible for our departure from The EU.....and the possible breakup of the Union with Scotland.

Cameron who called the referendum (and did not have to) will be well gone before the real turmoil ensues.


..............In fact he will be on his way to The House of Lords........

An interesting article on this very point

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ

[SisterNightroad]

Who will be the next to leave? Bet the Brits aren't the only one.
If the EU shatters it will be the end of the world as we know it. It could even start a new age of wars, as the EU is the principle responsible of the european status quo of the last 60 years.

[sue]

An interesting article on this very point

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ

very interesting article...
Just one flaw , it makes Cameron seem intelligent .
Whereas I see him as one half of double act...him and Bozo make a good Laurel and Hardy...

"Here's another nice mess you got me into"..

[MoonSister75]

If the EU shatters it will be the end of the world as we know it. It could even start a new age of wars, as the EU is the principle responsible of the european status quo of the last 60 years.

Lets hope to god that doesn't happen.

very interesting article...
Just one flaw , it makes Cameron seem intelligent .
Whereas I see him as one half of double act...him and Bozo make a good Laurel and Hardy...

"Here's another nice mess you got me into"..

:laugh: Yes they make a good team :rolleyes:

Seems like Jamie Oliver isn't a fan of Boris, he's started a campaign -
#BuggerOffBoris

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jun/27/jamie-oliver-begs-public-dont-let-boris-johnson-become-pm

[SisterNightroad]

Who will be the next to leave? Bet the Brits aren't the only one.
Lets hope to god that doesn't happen.
I also hope it. However it still won't happen at least for a long time because the UE is still a power that is needed for the members states. Also the England gave an example that won't easily be forgotten. Let's not forget that United Nations balance, economically and not, also the west forces. If this one day balance cracks, China, North-Korea and Russia will be stronger.

[MoonSister75]

Very good article explaining the referendum and how our democracy works, and how Brexit may not happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe

[Macfanforever]

Who will be the next to leave? Bet the Brits aren't the only one.

Heres Mr Jones about Brexit .

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/a5TNiRqsFHw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Sapphire Girl]

the Stupid and the Racist are. *snip*

You responded to that incorrectly. Your comment should read "The stupid and the racist do." (You're welcome.)

[olive]

You responded to that incorrectly. Your comment should read "The stupid and the racist do." (You're welcome.)

still wondering how I have Class Envy ?

thanks , what ever it takes to makes you feel superior :]

[FuzzyPlum]

You responded to that incorrectly. Your comment should read "The stupid and the racist do." (You're welcome.)

The 30 seconds of your life it took you to type that... you'll never ever get them back again! :distress:

[SisterNightroad]

These European leaders deserve the Brexit
In the referendum there was the victory of the "class-vote," says sociologist Saskia Sassen, a professor at Columbia University in New York. Because behind there is "a deep sense of anger and injustice," and the hatred against the political leaders of the Continent
GIULIANO BATTISTON


One vote, of a class, against the arrogance of European leadership and the insistence with which adopted economic policies which have enriched a few and impoverished many. That's how Saskia Sassen, an authoritative scholar of globalization processes, interprets the vote that will lead the UK out of the EU.
More than nationalism and the claim of the lost sovereignity, in that vote is "a deep anger, a deep sense of injustice", told to the Espresso the Professor of Sociology at Columbia University. A rage and injustice to which the European leadership has not been able to answer, if not with the arrogance and blindness with which it has continued to adopt the neoliberal economic model, the origin of anger and injustice. For this, the political class' deserves Brexit. They have gone too far. "

Professor Sassen, for the founding countries of the European Union Brexit is "a watershed in the history of Europe." To some observers it is putting into question the international order created after 1945 in liberal systems. Do you also believes it is the end of an era?
European leaders are right to consider this moment crucial, from their point of view. But there is another point of view which should be taken into account. This other view angle is represented by young people: for them, "Europe" is a formation of completely different nature. It is their future "operational space", a kind of natural space, perceived and lived in a way that is not comparable to that of many older Europeans, anchored to their local sub-national realities, for which the European Union has represented even an exaggeration. Seen from a not too distant future, this vote will appear bizarre, abnormal, rather than dramatic as it appears now.

For "optimistics", the crisis triggered by the Brexit is an opportunity to take leave of the neoliberal agenda. For the former Finance Minister of greece Varoufakis instead there is the risk that may arise "an iron cage of permanent austerity." What do you think?
I agree that there are obvious risks. This is the central question: the neo-liberal agenda that has dominated more and more evidently the major economic policy decisions, not counting the small decisions, largely invisible. If we look at the major decisions taken in recent years in Europe, the picture is bleak: the way in which the leadership of the European Union handled the Greek crisis, the insistence with which the austerity policies were adopted despite being counterproductive , and so on. If we consider all this, there is no doubt: European leadership deserves Brexit. They have gone too far.

Among those who voted Brexit, there are thosewho did it to reclaim sovereignity and national independence from the forces of globalization and its negative effects. An overly simplistic view?
The Brexit actually goes towards what I define as a phase of re-nationalization of what had been de-nationalized. But if we look to the fact that the poorest areas of Britain, those in which the unemployment rate is higher, are those who have voted in favor of Brexit, while more than 70 per cent of Londoners voted to remain within the EU European, is slammed in our faces the question of class, too long removed. I understand the anger of the classes of low-end workers and those of the middle class who, day after day, are losing ground, while the arrogant British Chancellor Osborne continues to cut by half the population benefits and services.
Here we are not dealing with nationalism in the strict sense. It is rather a deep anger and a deep sense of injustice. The rhetoric of the nationalists, which reads "we resumed our country's sovereignty" is nothing but the result of the absence of a deeper language, the more frustrated and angry, who played a central role in the outcome of the vote. It is not nationalism, it is survival.

Yet the immigration issue seems to have played an important role in the orientation of the vote. Are not you afraid that the Brexit strengthen ultra-nationalism, populism and the xenophobic right?
It is tragic, but secondary, the fact that for many the only clear, simple, direct language is the one that says "stop immigrants. " As if it were the real problem. Not so. As I explained in my last book, Expulsions, the real problem is an economic phase and a particular conception of the economy opened in the eighties of the twentieth century. That phase has not yet ended. Even today they continue to extract resources and value from 60 percent of the population, while the well-being is concentrated in 20 percent of the population belongs to the higher end. Tis is the real question.

In your famous book on global cities, published many years ago, you included London between the first three global cities of the planet, as a strategic place for the global financial and economic systems. The exit of the United Kingdom by the EU affect the status of London as a hub of global finance? Could other European cities take advantage of that?
The more established companies could leave London. But the central point is the complexity of the London financial markets. The companies are in fact something different from the financial markets. In the case of the markets, leaving is much more complicated. I believe that the core will remain. As I have already had occasion to say, it is important to remember that the London Stock Exchange is owned by the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. I think it should be in the interests of Frankfurt's financial industry to maintain that foothold in London, keep alive that complex open platform that is the financial center of London. you can not simply transfer it in full, because it is not only constituted by different companies, it is a real connected system. Frankfurt will transfer from London some components of the system, some companies, the most consolidated. But the innovating function and the speculative market I believe will remain in London, which will continue to be a global city.

Sediq Khan, the new mayor of London, argued that Europeans who live in London will continue to be welcomed. Up to what point can London remain a European and global city, if the rest of the country goes in the opposite direction?
What has been shown by the vote is the extent to which London and the region which it belongs to are different, so to say. It is a central aspect, tell-tale, to which few so far have reserved due attention. I think that the vote has brought to surface the errors of ​​the biggest players of the London financial world and the profound effects that have resulted. The high concentration of wealth in a few hands, while the rest of the country is impoverished; this hubris, this belief that the majority of the rest of the country would vote to stay in the European Union, are all indications of what the world has to learn. I really hope that they learn the lesson. I fully understand the anger, the rage, the hatred that the rest of Britain must have felt in helping the accumulation of wealth and prosperity by a political class so arrogant as to not even feel compelled to explain what it meant Brexit. The vote for the European Union exit tells much more than just a sense of nationalism.



http://espresso.repubblica.it/internazionale/2016/06/27/news/brexit-voto-di-classe-contro-potere-arrogante-1.274965?ref=HEF_RULLO

[Macfanforever]

Heres Rudy Giuliani's opinion about Brexit..

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3PSxyaHCiiw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Judge Jeanine's statement.I wish she was running for president.She will kick some a$$ around down in Washington .

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1N_S5dKrMVY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[olive]

The 30 seconds of your life it took you to type that... you'll never ever get them back again! :distress:

.........:xoxo:......

[Macfanforever]

He's got a point.The uneducated and old geezers votes to exit and the young voted to stay in.Maybe these uneducated and old geezers at sharper and more educated then you think .They seen everything in live all those years and lived it.These young voters that want everything handed over on a silver platter from the elites and have little or no experience of living through it .Don't bite off the elders that gave you life as my old friend said the other day.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/t0ghuUwYT8E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bombaysaffires]

maybe the old geezers don't realize the world has changed in the last 40 years. no country can be totally isolated and self-contained; the marketplace doesn't work that way anymore. and maybe the younger generation isn't so ethnocentric and culturally phobic like their elders. just a thought.:shrug:

[FuzzyPlum]

What has the EU ever done for us?
Sadly too many of my fellow country men and women are just too stoopid for words.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale


“What’s the EU ever done for us?” Zak Kelly, 21, asks me this standing next to a brand new complex of buildings and facilities that wouldn’t look out of place in Canary Wharf. It’s not Canary Wharf, though, it’s Ebbw Vale, a former steel town of 18,000 people in the heart of the Welsh valleys, where 62% of the population – the highest proportion in Wales – voted Leave.

We’re standing on the site of the old steelworks, a toxic industrial wasteland left rotting when the plant, once the biggest in Europe, finally closed in 2002. It’s now “The Works” – a flagship £350m regeneration project funded by the EU redevelopment fund and home to the £33.5m Coleg Gwent, where some of the 29,000 Welsh apprenticeships the European Social Fund pays for help young people learn a trade. Add in a new £30m railway line and £80m improvement to the Heads of the Valley road from other pots of EU money, and the town centre has just received £12.2m for various upgrades and improvements.

Ebbw Vale, left devastated when the steelworks closed, has had more European money poured into it than perhaps any other small town in Britain. But according to the figures Kelly heard, “we get out £7m a year from the EU and we put in £19m”. Anyway, he says, “it was time for a change”.

[MoonSister75]

As stated in the article that I posted above, the results of this referendum do not mean that the small majority have taken a decision for the UK to leave Europe - it was an advisory referendum. Our MPs representing us, those with skills and experience, will make the most appropriate decision when the time comes to decide. Some who voted Leave may be angry at that, and may be want to get out of Europe now. It seems they were lied to about what this referendum meant, just as they were lied to about the consequences.

My parents are out in Spain at the moment and have said how upsetting and worrying this is for the the expat Community. I think the absolute worse and most horrifying thing over here is a huge increase in racist attacks towards Europeans, people of colour who were born in this country and migrant children in school. :(

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe

Our democracy does not allow, much less require, decision-making by referendum. That role belongs to the representatives of the people and not to the people themselves. Democracy has never meant the tyranny of the simple majority, much less the tyranny of the mob (otherwise, we might still have capital punishment). Democracy entails an elected government, subject to certain checks and balances such as the common law and the courts, and an executive ultimately responsible to parliament, whose members are entitled to vote according to conscience and common sense.

By November, there may be other very good reasons for MPs to refuse to leave Europe. Brexit may turn out to be just too difficult. Staying in the EU may be the only way to stop Scotland from splitting, or to rescue the pound. A poll on Sunday tells us that a million leave voters are already regretting their choice: a significant public change of mind would amply justify a parliamentary refusal to Brexit. It may be, in November, that President Donald Trump becomes the leader of the free world – in which case a strong EU would become more necessary than ever. Or it may simply be that a majority of MPs, mindful of their constitutional duty to do what is best for Britain, conscientiously decide that it is best to remain.

There is no point in holding another referendum (as several million online petitioners are urging). Referendums are alien to our traditions, they are inappropriate for complex decision-making, and without careful incorporation in a written constitution, the public expectation aroused by the result can damage our democracy. The only way forward now depends on the courage, intelligence and conscience of your local MP.

[FuzzyPlum]

Judge Jeanine's statement.I wish she was running for president.She will kick some a$$ around down in Washington .

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1N_S5dKrMVY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Scaremongering, ignorant, racist old bat.
Sorry, but this woman represents much of what is wrong about your country. She is twisting simplified arguments to fit in with and justify her own warped views.
For the record, the United Kingdom is most certainly not overrun with immigrants.
Sadly too many people here really, really regret voting out. They misguidedly bought into all this jingoistic nationalism nonsense and now realise they 'ucked up by listening to it.

[FuzzyPlum]

As stated in the article that I posted above, the results of this referendum do not mean that the small majority have taken a decision for the UK to leave Europe - it was an advisory referendum. Our MPs representing us, those with skills and experience, will make the most appropriate decision when the time comes to decide. Some who voted Leave may be angry at that, and may be want to get out of Europe now. It seems they were lied to about what this referendum meant, just as they were lied to about the consequences.

My parents are out in Spain at the moment and have said how upsetting and worrying this is for the the expat Community. I think the absolute worse and most horrifying thing over here is a huge increase in racist attacks towards Europeans, people of colour who were born in this country and migrant children in school. :(

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe

Our democracy does not allow, much less require, decision-making by referendum. That role belongs to the representatives of the people and not to the people themselves. Democracy has never meant the tyranny of the simple majority, much less the tyranny of the mob (otherwise, we might still have capital punishment). Democracy entails an elected government, subject to certain checks and balances such as the common law and the courts, and an executive ultimately responsible to parliament, whose members are entitled to vote according to conscience and common sense.

By November, there may be other very good reasons for MPs to refuse to leave Europe. Brexit may turn out to be just too difficult. Staying in the EU may be the only way to stop Scotland from splitting, or to rescue the pound. A poll on Sunday tells us that a million leave voters are already regretting their choice: a significant public change of mind would amply justify a parliamentary refusal to Brexit. It may be, in November, that President Donald Trump becomes the leader of the free world – in which case a strong EU would become more necessary than ever. Or it may simply be that a majority of MPs, mindful of their constitutional duty to do what is best for Britain, conscientiously decide that it is best to remain.

There is no point in holding another referendum (as several million online petitioners are urging). Referendums are alien to our traditions, they are inappropriate for complex decision-making, and without careful incorporation in a written constitution, the public expectation aroused by the result can damage our democracy. The only way forward now depends on the courage, intelligence and conscience of your local MP.


They have no option. If they don't exit I think we'd end up having a civil war. The sad thing is, I'm not sure the 'Out' politicians really expected this. Does Bojo really want out? I'm not so sure. I think he was expecting to be a plucky loser who would have shown his leadership skills and then gone on to unite the country as the next Tory PM a few years down the line. I reckon his plan backfired big time.

[MoonSister75]

They have no option. If they don't exit I think we'd end up having a civil war. The sad thing is, I'm not sure the 'Out' politicians really expected this. Does Bojo really want out? I'm not so sure. I think he was expecting to be a plucky loser who would have shown his leadership skills and then gone on to unite the country as the next Tory PM a few years down the line. I reckon his plan backfired big time.

Maybe we will have to get out, but we are not out yet and who knows what will happen in the next couple of months.
Yes you can see clearly in Boris's face he is not happy with this result. He is hated in London and that is not what he wanted.

[sue]

Maybe we will have to get out, but we are not out yet and who knows what will happen in the next couple of months.
Yes you can see clearly in Boris's face he is not happy with this result. He is hated in London and that is not what he wanted.

..You are right we are not out yet...and who knows what's next (that's part of the problem)
..But as far as Boris is concerned, he should have worked this through, it doesn't take "Brain of Britain" to have thought .....mmm this could rock the economic boat just a bit.
..Blind ambition to be PM led him there...live with it. We will have to.

[MoonSister75]

What has the EU ever done for us?
Sadly too many of my fellow country men and women are just too stoopid for words.



Unfortunately our most popular newspaper is The Sun and they told people to BeLeave...

[MoonSister75]

At least someone is speaking up for those of us that don't want to be out of the EU


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/28/brexit-live-cameron-eu-leaders-brussels-corbyn-confidence

Nigel Farage may have been booed in the European parliament, but the SNP MEP Alyn Smith received a standing ovation when he delivered a passionate pro-European speech in the debate. Here’s an extract.

I want my country to be internationalist, cooperative, ecological, fair, European. And the people of Scotland, along with the people of Northern Ireland and the people of London and lots and lots of people in Wales and England also voted to remain within our family of nations. I demand that that status and that esprit européen be respected.

Colleagues, there are a lot of things to be negotiated. We will need cool heads and warm hearts. And please remember this: Scotland did not let you down. Please, I beg you, do not let Scotland down now

[Macfanforever]

Scaremongering, ignorant, racist old bat.
Sorry, but this woman represents much of what is wrong about your country. She is twisting simplified arguments to fit in with and justify her own warped views.
For the record, the United Kingdom is most certainly not overrun with immigrants.
Sadly too many people here really, really regret voting out. They misguidedly bought into all this jingoistic nationalism nonsense and now realise they 'ucked up by listening to it.

Maybe she could be DT's VP since she has the same wise a$$ attitude as he has.I thought Judge Judy was rough around the corners.This one is a wild firecracker.I almost died watching this.I'm shocked it was aired on a legit media outlet.

[Macfanforever]

maybe the old geezers don't realize the world has changed in the last 40 years. no country can be totally isolated and self-contained; the marketplace doesn't work that way anymore. and maybe the younger generation isn't so ethnocentric and culturally phobic like their elders. just a thought.:shrug:

Got a point.Some dont use computers,cell phones and get out.They just watch the news on the tele' or hear it on the radio from crap sources.

[olive]

this has been censored I can't post the full version it has no link on my phone

IT IS DISGUSTING and so are the cowards that fire bombed a Halal meat market in the 2nd link I ould post all day hate crimes are up 57 % link 3

This is what we should expect under a Trump Presidency the Poorly Educated attacking anything not like them

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/teens-hurl-abuse-at-man-on-manchester-tram/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663952/Shocking-moment-teenagers-caught-camera-hurling-vile-racist-abuse-tram-passenger-confronted-swearing.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-hate-crime-racism-reports-eu-referendum-latest-a7106116.html

[olive]

Got a point.Some dont use computers,cell phones and get out.They just watch the news on the tele' or hear it on the radio from crap sources.

being poorly educated and ignorant has a price

[MoonSister75]

this has been censored I can't post the full version it has no link on my phone

IT IS DISGUSTING and so are the cowards that fire bombed a Halal meat market in the 2nd link I ould post all day hate crimes are up 57 % link 3



It's so horrible, and so so sad :(

[Macfanforever]

being poorly educated and ignorant has a price

Got a point.No or poor parenting.Poor school systems.Broken family unit.Kids dont want to learn.

this has been censored I can't post the full version it has no link on my phone

IT IS DISGUSTING and so are the cowards that fire bombed a Halal meat market in the 2nd link I ould post all day hate crimes are up 57 % link 3

This is what we should expect under a Trump Presidency the Poorly Educated attacking anything not like them

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/teens-hurl-abuse-at-man-on-manchester-tram/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663952/Shocking-moment-teenagers-caught-camera-hurling-vile-racist-abuse-tram-passenger-confronted-swearing.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-hate-crime-racism-reports-eu-referendum-latest-a7106116.html

Horrible stories.No need for that what they did.Poorly educated young idiots.

[MoonSister75]

They have no option. If they don't exit I think we'd end up having a civil war.

If our economy is heading for disaster and the country is in crisis, maybe there won't be a civil war if somehow we do not end up exiting the EU. Maybe there would be a huge sigh of relief. I'd really like to know how many people out there are truly supportive of what is happening to the country right now, including potential break up of the UK, and being told this morning that taxes will increase, and that the country will be poorer. Oh yes and we've also been told, even by Boris, that we absolutely need to keep access to the single market, which means we would have to accept freedom of movement of EU citizens (exactly what the leave voters did not want). People in my area don't look particularly happy about the state of the country right now. They look more like this: :shrug:

There may even be a general election because of this, and maybe, just maybe there is a possibility of getting a much more competent government in place (I bloody hope so). I'm hanging on to the hope that good things come out of this mess...

[FuzzyPlum]

If our economy is heading for disaster and the country is in crisis, maybe there won't be a civil war if somehow we do not end up exiting the EU. Maybe there would be a huge sigh of relief. I'd really like to know how many people out there are truly supportive of what is happening to the country right now, including potential break up of the UK, and being told this morning that taxes will increase, and that the country will be poorer. Oh yes and we've also been told, even by Boris, that we absolutely need to keep access to the single market, which means we would have to accept freedom of movement of EU citizens (exactly what the leave voters did not want). People in my area don't look particularly happy about the state of the country right now. They look more like this: :shrug:

There may even be a general election because of this, and maybe, just maybe there is a possibility of getting a much more competent government in place (I bloody hope so). I'm hanging on to the hope that good things come out of this mess...

I don't disagree. Anecdotally, I'd say if the referendum was held again tomorrow the result would be more like 65% IN, 35% OUT. Maybe even 70%/30%.
Its hard to see where any other credible sort of government is coming from at the moment. I'd say for sure there'd be another Tory government elected with (probably) Boris as leader. Whether his government would be more competent....hmmm.
Certainly no chance for Labour at the moment. I'm sure things will work themselves out in time....it doesn't stop us feeling sad, frustrated, angry and generally all-round sh!t for the time being though.

[FuzzyPlum]

Maybe she could be DT's VP since she has the same wise a$$ attitude as he has.I thought Judge Judy was rough around the corners.This one is a wild firecracker.I almost died watching this.I'm shocked it was aired on a legit media outlet.

...come again? A legit media outlet?
Not being funny but she's a Fox news presenter isn't she?. I don't get Fox news as part of my cable package anymore but a few years ago I used to get it and watched it sometimes for the comedy value. It's extremely entertaining once you get past the initial shock of knowing this is 'News'.
Fair and balanced

[FuzzyPlum]

Jeremy Corbyn really is becoming an odious little chap.
Two thirds of his shadow cabinet resigned.
Now he's lost a vote of no confidence by a margin of 172 to 40. I'd say your Labour MP's really dont think much of you mate.

Corbyn: 'I will not resign'.

Oh dear.

[sue]

Jeremy Corbyn really is becoming an odious little chap.
Two thirds of his shadow cabinet resigned.
Now he's lost a vote of no confidence by a margin of 172 to 40. I'd say your Labour MP's really dont think much of you mate.

Corbyn: 'I will not resign'.

Oh dear.

..The problem with Mr Corbyn, he has the support of the ordinary paid up member ...ie the main membership of the Labour Party.
..The Parliamentary Member, the Labour MP's do not respect him at all.
..But as I say he has the support of the grassroots membership, by a long way.

[Macfanforever]

...come again? A legit media outlet?
Not being funny but she's a Fox news presenter isn't she?. I don't get Fox news as part of my cable package anymore but a few years ago I used to get it and watched it sometimes for the comedy value. It's extremely entertaining once you get past the initial shock of knowing this is 'News'.
Fair and balanced

Will .It lease its not an internet channel. Not a fan of FOX news here even if its leaning to Trump at times and dumped the expanded cable years ago with CNN,MSNBC.FOX and all the sports channels.Either or.They are all FOS and not honest..Most are unfair ad unbalanced.

[MoonSister75]

..The problem with Mr Corbyn, he has the support of the ordinary paid up member ...ie the main membership of the Labour Party.
..The Parliamentary Member, the Labour MP's do not respect him at all.
..But as I say he has the support of the grassroots membership, by a long way.

I'd agree he has the support of his members. Goodness knows what will happen to Labour now though ???

The Lib Dems seem to think they could fight an election ??? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/28/liberal-democrats-fight-election-halting-brexit-tim-farron#comments

And then there is the thought of Ukip gaining votes :shocked::distress:

[FuzzyPlum]

..The problem with Mr Corbyn, he has the support of the ordinary paid up member ...ie the main membership of the Labour Party.
..The Parliamentary Member, the Labour MP's do not respect him at all.
..But as I say he has the support of the grassroots membership, by a long way.

He did have huge backing from grassroot members. I don't think he'd have anywhere near so much now though. Whatever, he can't lead a group of MP's if they do not support him. At the end of the day they have to work with him and they are saying they can't. Corbyn can only just fill a shadow cabinet with MP's willing to back him. The honorable thing would be to go (the honorable thing would have been to go yesterday actually). If he really is dead set on staying this will tear Labour to pieces.

[MoonSister75]

...come again? A legit media outlet?
Not being funny but she's a Fox news presenter isn't she?. I don't get Fox news as part of my cable package anymore but a few years ago I used to get it and watched it sometimes for the comedy value. It's extremely entertaining once you get past the initial shock of knowing this is 'News'.
Fair and balanced

Good old Rupert Murdoch. We can thank him for Fox news and The Sun. Apparently the 2nd largest shareholder of the parent company News Corporation is a Saudi Prince.

http://bigthink.com/Resurgence/sharia-prince-owns-stake-in-fox-news-parent

[sue]

He did have huge backing from grassroot members. I don't think he'd have anywhere near so much now though. Whatever, he can't lead a group of MP's if they do not support him. At the end of the day they have to work with him and they are saying they can't. Corbyn can only just fill a shadow cabinet with MP's willing to back him. The honorable thing would be to go (the honorable thing would have been to go yesterday actually). If he really is dead set on staying this will tear Labour to pieces.


I agree, how can he lead a group that won't work with him....
......Strange days indeed...

[Macfanforever]

Good old Rupert Murdoch. We can thank him for Fox news and The Sun. Apparently the 2nd largest shareholder of the parent company News Corporation is a Saudi Prince.

http://bigthink.com/Resurgence/sharia-prince-owns-stake-in-fox-news-parent

Did he own TV Guide too for awhile.

[olive]

Will .It lease its not an internet channel. Not a fan of FOX news here even if its leaning to Trump at times and dumped the expanded cable years ago with CNN,MSNBC.FOX and all the sports channels.Either or.They are all FOS and not honest..Most are unfair ad unbalanced.

fox news is as legit as the website you posted the child who was murdered and raped by Syrians or that mentally disturb man you posted that you follow



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wndro2RxXhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Jondalar]

fox news is as legit as the website you posted the child who was murdered and raped by Syrians or that gun nut on you tube you follow *



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wndro2RxXhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

They are as legit as MSNBC or CNN.

[olive]

They are as legit as MSNBC or CNN.

It could not have gotten better in 1 year

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/06/fact-checker-finds-60-fox-news-statements-false-lie.html


Fact Checker Finds 60% Of Fox News Statements To Either Be Mostly False Or A Lie

[FuzzyPlum]

Fox News- a few of my favourite clips;

Santa and Jesus were white....okay? They just were kids;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBn2wIQWoB8

Ho, ho, ho


Russell Brand on Bill O'Reilly (not a big fan of RB but he often has some good things to say);
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1rcR_MJZDQ

[olive]

Fox News- a few of my favourite clips;

Santa and Jesus were white....okay? They just were kids;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBn2wIQWoB8

Ho, ho, ho


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1rcR_MJZDQ

this is from 1971 All in the Family based on the British series Till Death Us Do Part

Nothing has changed , and as I watched the reruns a few weeks ago the only thing different is the internet has given the " Archie Bunker "a way to find each other and band together , and we now have same sex marriage


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RFuok7ANFCo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[SisterNightroad]

Fox News- a few of my favourite clips;

Santa and Jesus were white....okay? They just were kids;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBn2wIQWoB8

Ho, ho, ho


Russell Brand on Bill O'Reilly (not a big fan of RB but he often has some good things to say);
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1rcR_MJZDQ
Thanks, the Santa Claus thing was fun to listen to.

However if someone is interested in hearing an academic point of view on ethnic groups, Santa was white (or of European ethnicity) even if he had dark skin and was greek.

I want to say that because I just found many strange people calling "people of color" every person that isn't literally white; for example even I, with olive skin, would be a "person of color" by this definition, and they get incredibly angry and think you're racist if you tell them otherwise.

In fact pretty much every person who doesn't belong to one of the other major Ethnic groups (Asian, Native American, Oceanian and South-African) is "white", or better of Caucasian/European ethnicity. For example Kim Kardashian is white. But this is just physical anthropology's view.

[Macfanforever]

fox news is as legit as the website you posted the child who was murdered and raped by Syrians or that mentally disturb man you posted that you follow



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wndro2RxXhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Hahaha .Yes he goes off the handle at times and very dramatic but some of the stuff about politics is right on the money with the corruptness .Alex is a 42 year old Texan .He's been on the air for 20 plus years next to Rush,Hannity and Matt Drudge and others.Alex is on WWCR Christian Shortwave Radio from Nashville TN and a host of other affiliates..

They are as legit as MSNBC or CNN.

20 plus years on the air.

this is from 1971 All in the Family based on the British series Till Death Us Do Part

Nothing has changed , and as I watched the reruns a few weeks ago the only thing different is the internet has given the " Archie Bunker "a way to find each other and band together , and we now have same sex marriage


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RFuok7ANFCo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CBS broke grounds with All in the Family then.Other shows follow.


Thanks, the Santa Claus thing was fun to listen to.

However if someone is interested in hearing an academic point of view on ethnic groups, Santa was white (or of European ethnicity) even if he had dark skin and was greek.

I want to say that because I just found many strange people calling "people of color" every person that isn't literally white; for example even I, with olive skin, would be a "person of color" by this definition, and they get incredibly angry and think you're racist if you tell them otherwise.

In fact pretty much every person who doesn't belong to one of the other major Ethnic groups, Oriental, Native American, Oceanian and South-African) is "white", or better of Caucasian/European ethnicity. For example Kim Kardashian is white. But this is just physical anthropology's view.

Wikipedia should dump the Santa page for kids sake.It could ruin their Christmas. I have the Italian olive skin myself and it tans quick in the summer so I can be cross to some Hispanic,Oriental, Native American or Middle Easterner .People have questioned me about where I'm from.I should say to them .I'm from the moon where Alice is and she's my mother.LOL....Its sad to say the racist ,hatred, bigotry has been around forever and is going to go forever like cancer and other diseases.Like I said earlier posts about immigrants .I have nothing against anybody but they got to get background checks and virus checks before they enter legally.

[becca]

Like i've said before, I got my fill of 'infortainment' type news shows back when Rush Limpbaugh was whinging about America being 'Held Hostage Day No. ___' by Bill Clinton in front of a wall of his flag festooned books. Anyone subjecting themselves knowingly to slanted sources of news will deserve what we get. ;)

Why, it's like Doctors getting their information about drugs they prescribe from the makers of the drugs...

Oops.

Trump is not funny. I neither laugh at America or him or the Farace fellow either. Lets all pray for wisdom for everyone, or at least for the saucer men to drop by and give us the word on a much bigger scene.

Hey, I thought 'the Donald' (as in Duck only with pants on?) was fighting with that Fox news woman anyway? I hope she's not turned into another one of his apologists.

[MoonSister75]

Trump is not funny. I neither laugh at America or him or the Farace fellow either.



I guess you mean Nigel Farage. No he is not funny in the slightest, and he lies repeatedly. His far right approach has helped to cause total chaos and in our country.

The former Prime Minister of Belgium has accused Nigel Farage of lying on migration, Turkey and the NHS in a heated European Parliament debate on the Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-eu-referendum-belgian-prime-minister-ridicules-ukip-leader-lying-in-campaign-a7107361.html


And this is Nigel Farage telling members of the European Parliament yesterday that they have never done a proper job, again a complete lie. These articles explain all the important work of the MEPs.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/28/is-nigel-farage-right-meps-have-not-done-proper-jobs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36654901

someone pointed out on twitter:
no MEPs have done proper job. Someone remind him of his attendance as MEP: 747th worst out of 751?

Nigel Farage is supposed to represent the views of the majority of Britain right now. Its too awful for words ​:distress:

[MoonSister75]

John Kerry: Brexit could be 'walked back'

US secretary of state expresses doubts over whether Brexit will happen as David Cameron ‘has no idea how he would do it’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/29/john-kerry-brexit-could-be-walked-back-david-cameron


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/uk-voted-for-brexit-but-is-there-a-way-back

[MoonSister75]

Sorry to not be able to post any happier news in the Brexit thread

I just found this audio clip on the BBC news site of Micheal Heseltine blaming Boris Johnson for the mess and saying that he has "created the greatest constitutional crisis in modern times" - Its quite a moving speech :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36677623

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/lord-heseltine-slams-boris-johnson-abandoning-army.


This is an unbelievable difficult time for this country right now :(

[MoonSister75]

Some are calling what Boris Johnson has done "An act of ​treachery"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36674729

And someone in a comments section of a Guardain article suggested it's treason

far too late
events have confirmed the absolute tissue of lies he won the vote by
this is not treachery..and it most certainly is not democracy..dictators get votes by peddling lies.
it is treason
he has done staggering damage to the uk

[MoonSister75]

I live on the border of 2 counties and yesterday I went to work in Ceredigion for an elderly couple (I support the elderly and disabled). I stopped for petrol and saw the news on the front of the local papers - ​"County stunned by EU vote - Ceredigion's councillors have responded with dismay to Friday's EU referendum result, warning that the move could lead to the economic collapse of West Wales and have a devastating impact on the region for generations to come."

Another newspaper explained that our local town had received a huge amount of help from the EU including £5m for our recently reopened Castle, and it has also been funding our 2 best arts facilities - Theatre Mwldan and Small World Theatre. Apparently we also get a lot of agricultural support from the EU. This area gets much more back from the EU than it gives.

Ceredigion voted to remain in the EU (not surprisingly they must have realised the benefits). My county Pembrokeshire unfortunately voted out.

It's really shocking to see such headlines (nothing very dramatic ever happens around here usually) and difficult to remain positive but everyone is trying their best. Hopefully things won't end up as bad as is feared. :angel::angel:

I was at the Theatre Mwldan tonight with my daughter and her friend, and it was nice to see a good crowd there to watch The Secret Life of Pets :) . Its an arts facility that is really treasured around here.

[MoonSister75]

This is interesting. I was wondering yesterday about our rights as EU citizens.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-news-latest-angela-merkel-urged-to-show-solidarity-with-remain-voters-a7114176.html#commentsDiv

German academics call on Angela Merkel to show solidarity with non-Brexit voters

'While UK governments have not always been a force for unity in the EU, there is a generation of British citizens who want a future as EU citizens,' says the letter​


More than 300 German academics have called on Angela Merkel to show solidarity with UK citizens who voted Remain during the forthoming negotiations over Brexit.

In an open letter to the German Chancellor, they asked her to protect the rights of "British Europeans" in any future deals with Britain.

"As academics and teachers of German and European studies, we are concerned about the outcome of any Brexit negotiations for EU citizens," they said.

"We ask Germany to act in solidarity with British Europeans who did not choose this result, by striving to protect their rights in any future EU exit agreement.

"Any moves to do otherwise in the name of unity between the other 27 member states would contradict the very notion of European solidarity."

The letter warned Ms Merkel about the potentially disastrous effects on young British citizens who overwhelmingly voted to remain in Europe.

It added that European student exchange programmes such as Erasmus+ could be adversely affected with current and former students losing their right to study and work abroad.

"Last week, nearly three quarters of voters under 25 chose to remain in the EU," the letter said.

"Soon, they may be denied the opportunities that European integration aims to offer.

"Instead of excluding young people from EU citizenship, we should work together to ensure that all people across Europe have the equality of opportunity they deserve."

The academics said the British citizens should not be punished for the actions of fractious British politicians.

"While UK governments have not always been a force for unity in the EU, there is a generation of British citizens who want a future as EU citizens," the letter concluded.

"Stripping them of their citizenship contradicts the principles of the European treaties that ask for European solidarity and prosperity for all Europeans.

"We ask you to defend the rights of EU citizens in any future exit negotiations with the UK."

Former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl echoed the letter's sentiments, urging EU leaders not to act in haste and "slam the door" on the UK after Brexit.

A post-Brexit survey of German people found that two thirds want their government to reclaim some powers back from the EU.

The poll also found that only a third of Germans wanted to actually leave the EU altogether.

[MoonSister75]

This made my day. A peaceful protest in London against Brexit :angel::angel:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2016/jul/02/brexit-referendum-remain-supporters-march-for-europe-in-pictures

​http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/march-for-europe-eu-referendum-london-protest

[MoonSister75]

Oh this is brilliant, I nearly couldn't finish reading it as I was laughing so much.

This Facebook post brilliantly explains the aftermath of Brexit for you

written by Filmaker Benjamin Blaine

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/this-facebook-post-brilliantly-explains-the-aftermath-of-brexit-for-you--ZylCkjnfzHb

[MoonSister75]

Nigel Farage at a garden party yesterday with Rupert Murdoch and Liam Fox (candidate for Conservative leader) hmmm.....

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jul/03/farage-murdoch-lebedev-and-fox-break-bread-as-told-by-lily-allen

And this from the Daily Mail..

In 2014 it was revealed he met Rupert Murdoch in his New York offices after filming interviews for some of the mogul's news channels, including Fox News.

The Ukip leader was then summoned to Murdoch's NewsCorp Manhattan office after taping a segment for Fox News's Sean Hannity and Neil Cavuto shows.

During an advertisement break, Cavuto turned to Farage and said: 'Sir, the boss wants to see you... the big boss,' it was reported.

In 2013 the outspoken party leader praised Mr Murdoch - whose many publications were heavily scrutinised in the wake of the phone hacking scandal - as a 'remarkable bloke' after being invited to his home for dinner.

They ares said to have discussed the possibility of a UKIP pact with the Tories, but only if David Cameron was ousted as leader.

Mr Murdoch later claimed Mr Farage was ‘reflecting opinion’ and suggested new leaders are ‘emerging on distant horizon’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3673280/Rupert-Murdoch-Liam-Fox-Nigel-Farage-Union-Flag-shoes-garden-party-held-billionaire-Evgeny-Lebedev-Lily-Allen-capture-thing-Twitter.html


Rupert Murdoch has quite an influence in this country, through his publications and dealings with politicians :mad:

[MoonSister75]

A prominent law firm is taking pre-emptive legal action against the government, following the EU referendum result, to try to ensure article 50 is not triggered without an act of parliament.

Acting on behalf of an anonymous group of clients, solicitors at Mishcon de Reya have been in contact with government lawyers to seek assurances over the process, and plan to pursue it through the courts if they are not satisfied. The law firm has retained the services of senior constitutional barristers, including Lord Pannick QC and Rhodri Thompson QC.

Their initiative relies upon the ambiguous wording of article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, which sets out how states could leave the EU. The first clause declares: “Any member state may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.”

One of the grounds of a likely challenge to the referendum is that it is merely advisory and the royal prerogative cannot be used to undermine parliamentary statute.

According to Mishcon de Reya, the decision to trigger article 50 rests with the representatives of the people under the UK constitution. The firm has been in correspondence with the government since 27 June “to seek assurances that the government will uphold the UK constitution and protect the sovereignty of parliament in invoking article 50”.


rest of the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/jul/03/parliament-must-decide-whether-or-not-to-leave-the-eu-say-lawyers
also:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36700350


And this from the BBC..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36671629

While lawyers may raise arguments, it seems impossible to see a legal challenge stopping the great democratic juggernaut now chuntering towards the EU's departure gate.

There are times when politics simply outstrips the law.

This feels like one of them.

[MoonSister75]

There's been a debate in the commons today about the status of EU Nationals following this referendum. Andy Burnham has summed up the situation very well. (Its still totally unbelievable that this is actually happening :shrug:)

Andy Burnham, the shadow home secretary, told MPs in the UQ on EU nationals that his wife was Dutch and that their three children were half Dutch. Referring to what Theresa May said on Peston on Sunday yesterday, he said May’s hint that EU nationals could be made to leave the EU was “quite threatening”.

So many British families are similar to ours, with relatives born in Ireland or other EU countries.

The 3m or so EU nationals living here are the fathers and mothers, aunties and uncles, grandmas and granddads of millions of British children.

To leave any uncertainty hanging over their right to be here is tantamount to undermining family life in our country - and that does not strike me as a very prime ministerial thing to do.

But it is what the home secretary did yesterday.

She said “people who have an established life here” would be part of negotiations with Brussels.

For people making a huge contribution to our society to be talked of as a bargaining chip is insensitive to say the least.

But when it is added with the comment that “nobody necessarily stays anywhere forever” it becomes quite threatening.

Burnham also said the government had reduced the county “to chaos”.

Finally, Mr Speaker, doesn’t the very fact that we are having to hold this debate today illustrate how flawed the Referendum campaign was?

Didn’t people have a right to know the answer to this crucial question before they went to vote?

Sending any EU nationals home has enormous implications for families, for public services, for the economy.

So why on earth did the government instruct civil servants not to carry out any contingency planning on the implications of Brexit?

Wasn’t that the very height of irresponsibility? And hasn’t it left us with “neither compass nor chart” as Lord Hennessey has said?

This Conservative party has reduced our country to chaos and created uncertainty being felt in every family.

If the home secretary wants to be the person to lead us out of it, she needs to have the courage to come to this House and clear up her own mess.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jul/04/brexit-live-plan-leave-vote-hysteria-boris-johnson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 3m non-British EU citizens living in the EU. According to the Office for National Statistics, this is where they are from:

1.46m (2.3% of the total UK population) were born in the EU14 group of countries: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Republic of Ireland, Spain and Sweden

1.24m (1.9%) were born in the EU8 group of countries, which joined the EU in 2004: Czech Republic, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia

235,000 (0.4%) were born in Bulgaria or Romania - countries that joined the EU in 2007

92,000 (0.1%) were born in the remaining three countries of the EU - Malta, Cyprus and Croatia

[MoonSister75]

The Chilcot report came out today, an investigation into the UK's involvement with the Iraq war.

People are pointing out an irony from the Chilcot report that applies to Brexit

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-pointing-out-an-irony-from-the-chilcot-report-that-applies-to-brexit--bJb1atnwLSW

The current Tory government pushed for the Chilcot report into the Iraq War to be released after the EU referendum.

It seems now the report's conclusions might just have helped in the build up to the EU Referendum vote -at least, if you were in favour of Remaining.

This quote from Sir John's statement this morning says it all:

Chilcot begs gvt never again to embark on huge risky leaps of faith based on dodgy evidence and without solid planning
:shrug:

[MoonSister75]

Well it looks like we will have a female Prime Minister - either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom, the 2 candidates left after the MP votes. Theresa May is more popular at the moment. I'm not particularly over the moon about this as I'm not a Conservative voter, we'll have to see if she's an improvement on David Cameron. I was wondering what Brexiters think of this choice given that the Leave campaign was run by people like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson. I just looked at the comments on the 2nd video and it seems that many are not happy, some suggesting she's the next Margaret Thatcher...

Also leavers are not happy that article 50 hasn't been triggered yet, wondering what is going on and when/if it will happen.

Still quite a mess then, and most people not happy with the current state of things.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1f06Y_CEzkc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sUxjSTFYoZM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[MoonSister75]

I was glad to read this. Our MPs looking out for the rights of migrants in the UK.


Labour motion on EU migrants 'right to remain' passes Commons vote

Motion backed by Boris Johnson passed by 245 to two but is non-binding and has no effect on government policy

Jessica Elgot

Wednesday 6 July 2016 18.49 BST Last modified on Thursday 7 July 2016 09.23 BST

A Labour motion in support of EU migrants in the UK, which won the backing of Boris Johnson, has passed comfortably in the Commons.

The shadow home secretary, Andy Burnham, called on Conservatives to vote with Labour on the motion, which asked the government to “commit today that EU nationals currently living in the UK shall have the right to remain”. The motion passed by 245 votes to two after the government abstained.

Burnham said it would send a strong message to EU migrants and ramp up the pressure on Theresa May. The home secretary has so far refused to guarantee that EU nationals will have full rights to remain in the UK.

article continued here http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/06/boris-johnson-to-back-labour-motion-on-eu-migrants

[MoonSister75]

3 separate issues in here

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/08/legal-attempt-prevent-brexit-preliminary-hearing-article-50

First legal attempt to prevent Brexit set for preliminary hearing

Claim argues result of referendum is not legally binding and only parliament can authorise triggering of article 50

Owen Bowcott Legal affairs correspondent

@owenbowcott

Friday 8 July 2016 16.52 BST

The first legal attempt to prevent the prime minister initiating Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union is to be heard later this month.

A high court judge, Mr Justice Cranston, has set 19 July for a preliminary hearing of the judicial review challenge brought on behalf of the British citizen Deir Dos Santos.

The claim argues that only parliament – not the prime minister – can authorise the signing of article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, which begins the UK’s formal withdrawal process.

Other legal claims making a similar point are also being prepared by the law firm Mishcon de Reya. Brexit supporters staged a demonstration outside their London office on Thursday with a banner and placards declaring “‘Invoke article 50 now” and “‘Uphold the Brexit vote”.

The politically sensitive hearing will be heard by two judges in the divisional court. The Dos Santos claim argues that: “The result of the referendum is not legally binding in the sense that it is advisory only and there is no obligation [on the government] to give effect to the referendum decision. However the prime minister has stated on numerous occasions that it is his intention to give effect to the referendum decision and organise the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union.

“The extract from the prime minister’s resignation speech ... makes it clear that [the government] is of the view that the prime minister of the day has the power under article 50 (2) of the Lisbon treaty to trigger article 50 without reference to parliament.”

That decision, it claims, is “ultra vires” – beyond the legitimate powers of the government – because under “the UK’s constitutional requirements”, notification to the European Union council of withdrawal “can only be given with the prior authorisation of the UK parliament”.

Dominic Chambers QC, an expert in international and commercial law from Maitland Chambers in London, is acting for Dos Santos.


The claim refers to recent statements from the Foreign Office explaining that it is parliament that has the power to repeal the European Communities Act 1972. It also argues that the royal prerogative – powers employed by the prime minister – cannot be used to undermine parliamentary statute.

The government, which has acknowledged receipt of the claim lodged on 28 June, is expected to argue that a prime minister can use powers based on the royal prerogative to trigger article 50. If it goes to trial, any hearing is likely to be appealed against, up to the highest courts.

In a separate development, Anthony Eskander, a criminal barrister at Church Court Chambers in London, has posted an opinion arguing that politicians supporting the Vote Leave campaign might have opened themselves up to legal action for alleged misrepresentations over claims that quitting the EU would allow an extra £350m to be spent on the NHS.

It claims politicians might have committed offences of misconduct in public office by promoting the £350m claim. The figure has been called “potentially misleading” by the independent UK Statistics Authority, for failing to take into account the UK’s rebate from the EU. Vote Leave denied during the referendum campaign that it was misleading the public.



Harry Shindler, the 94-year-old war veteran who tried to overturn the ban preventing those who have lived overseas more than 15 years from voting, has threatened to challenge the validity of the referendum result at the United Nations.

More than 700,000 Britons resident abroad are estimated to have been denied a chance to register for the ballot. The high court, appeal court and supreme court threw out Shindler’s legal claims in the run-up to the referendum on the technical grounds of whether EU law permitting freedom of movement applied.

Speaking from his home in San Benedetto on Italy’s Adriatic coast, Shindler, who was awarded an MBE in 2014 for his services to Anglo-Italian relations, told the Guardian: “We feel we should have taken part in the referendum. We can’t go back to the courts. We have been to all the courts that we can in England. So now we will go to the UN human rights commission in Geneva, asking them to declare the result of the referendum null and void. I am preparing a case now that will be with the United Nations.

“It’s contrary to [article 21 of ] the UN Declaration of Human Rights [in 1948] which says that citizens have a right to take part in the election of the government of their country. Universal suffrage is supposed to mean everybody. I’m doing this in the knowledge that I am supported by expats throughout Europe, I am in touch with people in France, Spain, Portugal and Germany.”

[MoonSister75]

My local wildlife centre belongs to the Wildlife Trust and they are particularly concerned about Brexit. The EU has provided strong legislation and invested in many practical projects that have reduced the rate of wildlife loses, and begun to reverse the fortunes of some of our wildlife.
http://www.wildlifetrusts.org/EU-Ref

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/vote-leave-destroy-legal-system-take-back-control-brexit#comments
EU legislation is predominantly regulatory and standard setting – think of mandatory emissions standards for cars, toy safety, regulation of chemicals, food, medicines. But it also creates substantive protections for consumers, businesses, workers and the environment – imagine a system without guarantees of parental leave, or non-discrimination. EU law takes two main forms: directives, which the UK must implement through legislation passed by parliament; and regulations, which are directly applicable in UK law without the need for any implementing legislation.

[sue]

Dear MoonSister of West Wales,
thanks for your many enlightening articles on Brexit.

I did read one on "Ignore the prophets of doom Brexit will be good for Britain" by Simon Jenkins of The Guardian on Wednesday 6th.....(sorry I don't know how to do the link.)

It did cheer me up a little , re Brexit...that is....Have a read, see what you think.
Sue

[MoonSister75]

​Hi Sue

I'm glad you appreciate them. I've just been posting those that I've found particularly interesting (mostly pro-EU I realise) - like the 94 year old war veteran taking his case to the UN human rights commission :)

Here is the one that you mention. I think I did scan through it on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/brexit-britain-property-bubble#comments

Yes I agree our politics did need a shake up, and this is certainly one of times. I just keep reminding myself that good things will come of this - it can be a struggle to keep this attitude up every day, but I am trying :)

David Cameron resigning as PM and Nigel Farage resigning (for now at least) 2 things I need to be grateful for ;)

[MoonSister75]

and Sue... if you want to post a link, I just highlight the link in the address bar and then cut and paste onto here (if that makes sense)

[sue]

and Sue... if you want to post a link, I just highlight the link in the address bar and then cut and paste onto here (if that makes sense)

Thanks, next good article I shall be posting away....again thanks for that.

[MoonSister75]

Nigel Farage, clearly not a fan of Theresa May, and doing his best in this radio show to convince the listeners that she's not a good candidate for PM. He doesn't seem very pleased about the direction in which the Conservative elections are heading.

I've only watched 20mins as I don't want to spend too much of my life listening to him speak.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/the-nigel-farage-show-live-from-10am-on-sunday-133433

[MoonSister75]

​So we have a new Prime Minister :woohoo: - Theresa May. I'm pleased that a leadership campaign didn't run for 2 months, and I think she was by far the best choice out of the 5 candidates.

I'm sure most people will be pleased that she is offering some kind of stability in a chaotic few weeks :eek:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/11/theresa-may-the-vicars-daughter-poised-to-pull-the-tories-and-the-country-from-the-abyss

[sue]

I agree, she is by far the best, of a bad lot.. I think she will steady a listing ship....(Tho' not yet sunk)
I read the European headlines, in the Guardian, yesterday and on the whole they were favourable to Mrs May.
I like her dress sense too especially her kitten heels..

[MoonSister75]

I agree, she is by far the best, of a bad lot..

:nod::nod: yes I wanted to say that myself (then held back due to feeling that I've moaned a lot in this thread already)

I also like her dress sense and shoes.

Well, I guess we have to see what happens next, anything could happen in this crazy country we seem to be living in.

Also, I'm glad Jeremy Corbyn is standing strong against the MPs that are trying to kick him out as leader. A much fairer way to deal with the dispute is to have an election

[He's So Unusual]

I'm starting to warm to Theresa May. Things feel different this time. I think the UK is going to go from strength to strength. I'm happy about David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox. That's a great team and a step in the right direction. I'm not keen on Amber Rudd as Home Secretary. I guess we should give her the benefit of the doubt at the moment. At least Larry is staying :D

[MoonSister75]

I guess Theresa May has a good sense of humour :shocked:

'Maybe the Brits are just having us on': the world reacts to Boris Johnson as foreign minister

International community greets news of former London mayor’s big appointment with a mixture of fear, bemusement and panic

Bonnie Malkin, Philip Oltermann in Berlin and Tom Phillips in Beijing

Thursday 14 July 2016 04.36 BST Last modified on Thursday 14 July 2016 10.10 BST

The world of politics, diplomacy and celebrity has reacted with a mixture of amusement and horror to the news that Boris Johnson has been appointed Britain’s new foreign secretary.

Johnson himself said he was “excited” to take up the new role , which will involve travelling the globe, meeting foreign leaders and representing Britain on the international stage.

However, his track record when it comes to interacting with other cultures is patchy to say the least, and politicians around the world will no doubt be intrigued by the prospect of working with a man who once wrote a poem about the Turkish president having sex with a goat.

In the US, the official reaction was one of carefully restrained laughter.

When State Department spokesman Mark Toner heard the news, he struggled to keep a straight face – a broad smile breaking out more than once – before saying the US “looked forward” to working with Johnson.

(Even Cher has something to say about it... rest of the article here...)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/14/maybe-the-brits-are-just-having-us-on-the-world-reacts-to-boris-johnson-as-foreign-minister#comments

[sue]

Well, she's certainly gutsy...talk about "Night of the Long knives"..
And yes she must have a keen sense of humour....Boris as FS..!!!!

[MoonSister75]

Well, she's certainly gutsy...talk about "Night of the Long knives"..


An interesting analogy...
and something to ponder on....

[MoonSister75]

Theresa May is visiting Scotland today to meet Nicola Sturgeon. It will be interesting to see how she attempts to deal with issue of Scotland voting to stay in the EU....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

Finance and Constitution Minister Derek McKay said he hoped it was the start of a "constructive relationship based on mutual respect" rather than the Scottish government being "lectured at".

He goes on to say that the UK's decision to leave the EU - which was opposed by the majority of people in Scotland - puts Scotland's "vital" commercial, employment, educational and cultural interests at risk and the Scottish government must be able to engage fully in the Brexit talks to protect its distinct links with Europe.

It is a Conservative government which has put us into this position, so the onus is now on them to prove that our interests can be protected within the UK – because the fact is that the EU referendum has placed a very big question mark over that. Warm words about a 'special Union' are simply not enough – a Union that ignores our wishes and drags us out of EU against our democratic will would not be very special.”

This was interesting too.....

Letwin: UK does not have its own trade negotiators

Mr Letwin, who was one of David Cameron's chief lieutenants for six years, was briefly put in charge of preparing the UK for Brexit after last month's referendum result.

He has some interesting thoughts about how well the equipped the UK is for the task, defending the government against accusations that it was totally unprepared for a Brexit vote.

The focus of the pre-referendum contingency planning and in the days after the vote was on stabilising the markets, on which he says George Osborne and Mark Carney did a great job.

As for the task ahead, he believes that he has "begun the groundwork" for his successor David Davis by putting a team of "crack civil servants" together in the Cabinet Office to work through some of the logisitical changes, who will now transfer to the new Brexit department.

While he expects the "brightest and the best" mandarins in the country to turn their attention to getting the best deal for the UK from leaving the EU, he acknowledges that the UK is not so well stocked when it comes to its own trade negotiators.

Putting in bluntly, he says Mr Davis and new International Trade Secretary Liam Fox will have to "hire some".

We do not have trade negotiations because trade negotiations have been going on in the EU...The trade negotiators who are Brits are basically at the moment working for the EU. (There are) quite a number but they are employed there. It is up to them whether they are recruited into Whitehall.

[Macfanforever]

I'm glad that the US stocks are coming back after Brexit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks-idUSKCN0ZE16V

[MoonSister75]

I'm starting to warm to Theresa May. Things feel different this time. I think the UK is going to go from strength to strength. I'm happy about David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox. That's a great team and a step in the right direction. I'm not keen on Amber Rudd as Home Secretary. I guess we should give her the benefit of the doubt at the moment. At least Larry is staying :D

It's good to hear a voice of optimism in this thread. I've never been a fan of Tory governments but I'm warming to her, and I'm remaining open minded about the possibility of a Conservative government that works for all sectors of society. We shall see..... the proof is in the pudding...
Yes thank god for Larry, probably the wisest creature at no 10.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36781561

[MoonSister75]

I'm still appalled and disgusted that it is under consideration with this government as to whether they will deport 3milllion EU nationals and also take away the rights of the 1.2 million British citizens living in the EU (and remove the right that we all have to free movement within the EU)

http://aceditor.livejournal.com/557.html

The legal argument which may rule the EU referendum both undemocratic and unlawful


Here I will outline the legal arguments as to why the referendum can be challenged in court, why the referendum may be unlawful and why the government is at risk of having to pay billions of pounds worth of compensation to EU nationals resident in the UK.

Clearly the EU referendum wasn’t “a vote for British people”. The ability to vote (the franchise) was give to British citizens, nationals from 50 other Commonwealth states plus 3 members of the EU - Ireland, Malta and Cyprus. At the same time it excluded nationals from the 24 other member states of the EU.

The Disenfranchisement of some EU Nationals resident in the UK
In the UK there are approximately 2.9 million resident EU nationals. Many have lived here for a very long time. They have families here, have jobs and businesses, pay taxes and contribute to British society. In fact EU nationals are estimated to make a net financial contribution to the UK of £2bn per annum including the welfare services they use.

----------------------------------------------

Sionaidh Douglas-Scott, Professor of European and Human Rights Law at Oxford University puts it like this:

"as things stand, citizens of some EU countries (namely, Ireland, Cyprus, and Malta) have rights to vote in the EU referendum, while other EU citizens do not. This situation may conceivably infringe EU non-discrimination law, given that Article 18 TFEU states that: ‘Within the scope of application of the Treaties, and without prejudice to any
special provisions contained therein, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited’.”

​-----------------------------------------​

Damages

You may ask why it is necessary to question the referendum now that it has already been run. For the 2.5 million EU nationals from the 24 disenfranchised countries life is now in limbo. Having not been given the chance to have any say on the matter, they now find themselves aliens in the place they call home.

​------------------------------------------​

Conclusion

It is clear that the EU Referendum Act discriminated against approximately 2.5 million EU nationals contrary to TFEU18 of EU Law. Only a legal challenge by some or many of the disenfranchised will answer the question as to whether the government can ignore EU law and the fundamental rights it bestows.

To quote Lady Hale, via Aidan O'Neill QC:

“Of course, in any modern democracy, the views of the public and Parliamentarians cannot be the end of the story. Democracy is about more than respecting the views of the majority. It is also about safeguarding the rights of minorities, including unpopular minorities. ‘Democracy values everyone equally even if the majority does not’.... It follows that one of the essential roles of the courts in a democracy is to protect those rights.....
If the current franchise unjustifiably excludes certain people from voting, it is the court’s duty to say so and to give them whatever remedy is appropriate. More fundamentally, Parliamentarians derive their authority and legitimacy from those who elected them, in other words from the current franchise, and it is to those electors that they are accountable. They have no such relationship with the disenfranchised. Indeed, in some situations, they may have a vested interest in keeping the franchise as it is”

[MoonSister75]

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

This article may seem a little negative about Brexit but I found it very informative. There's much talk in the news about us starting to negotiate trade deals, but it makes it clear here that we can't negotiate any trade deals, inside or outside the EU, while the two-year Article 50 process is ongoing (not that we have any negotiators in the country anyway).

[Macfan4life]

UK economy shrinks at record rates. The worst is yet to come.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brexit-uk-economy-shrink_us_57924571e4b0bdddc4d44801?section=

[MoonSister75]

Oh good. Nigel Farage has been reported to the police over his use of the disgusting "breaking point" poster of Syrian refugees. And to think this poster was used to encourage us to leave the EU?! Could they have stooped any lower?​

Campaigners have lodged a complaint with police over alleged incitement to racial and religious hatred by former Ukip leader Nigel Farage and Leave.EU during the referendum, the Press Association reports.

The complaint, backed by almost 40,000 names on an online petition, was handed in to police in north London on Wednesday and given a crime reference number.

Campaign organiser Zack Newman launched the petition in response to a controversial poster used in the referendum campaign.

It was launched by Farage in the final days of the referendum and depicted a column of migrants walking through the European countryside under the slogan Breaking Point.

The complaint asks police to investigate whether comments made by Mr Farage and others in the Leave.EU camp were “systematically and purposefully designed to incite and stir up fear and intolerance of immigrants in order to procure votes”.

and this relates to it:

Politicians to blame for rise of 'respectable racism', says Lady Warsi

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/22/politicians-blame-respectable-racism-lady-warsi

[MoonSister75]

Something positive from Brexit :woohoo:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A rare moment when every single minister and shadow minister on the front benches in Parliament is a woman.<a href="https://t.co/KK2ImZS9X7">https://t.co/KK2ImZS9X7</a></p>&mdash; Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) <a href="https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/756129972662652928">21 July 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[MoonSister75]

The many complex issues of Brexit :confused::confused: - Scotland wanting to stay in the EU, a possible change to border between northern and southern Ireland, Wales losing it's vital EU funding, and what will happen to Gibraltar?

Scotland, Wales and N Ireland could demand vote on Brexit terms
Leaders of UK’s devolved parliaments vow to work together to ensure nations are not ‘done over’ by Westminster
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/22/brexit-scotland-wales-northern-ireland-eu-referendum

Spain says 'closer to' controlling Gibraltar after Brexit vote
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/spain-proposes-shared-sovereignty-over-gibraltar-after-brexit-vo/