Mirage nit picks

[Wdm6789]

Don't get me wrong, I love all their music, they're amazing artists, but I'm enjoying these discussions.


Mirage:

1. Love in Store could be a little longer and rearranged a little bit. Put the chorus after the first verse instead of going right into the second verse. So it would be: verse one, chorus, verse two, chorus, instrumental break, chorus, instrumental outro. The keyboards should be slightly more prominent also. What can I say? I like pianos.

2. Can't Go Back is good but it's too light. I liked the darkness of Lindsey's songs on Tusk. His songs on Mirage are pretty light and poppy. I like that he was trying to get back to traditional Fleetwood Mac for Mirage but his songs on this album need more of an edge. Can't Go Back is also too short. I don't like when songs are less than three minutes.

3. That's Alright could be longer as well. It should have an instrumental between the two verses and they should sing the chorus twice after the second verse. That's Alright is really underrated, in my opinion. It's a great song. It's an epitome of a Rumours era Fleetwood Mac song. I wish they performed it on the Mirage tour. It would have sounded so good live in 1982.

4. Book of Love, it just needs some Stevie and Christine on it.

5. It would have been awesome if the five and a half minute version of Gypsy was on the album. I also think Lindsey and Christine should sing "lightening strikes maybe once maybe twice" and "she was just a wish." It sounds like only Lindsey singing those lines. They just made it look like they were both singing in the music video.

6. I love Only Over You. I just don't like the line "angel please don't go." I think "baby please don't go" would sound better. We all know Dennis Wilson was no angel. This song would have also sounded awesome live in 1982.

7. I also love Empire State. It just needs to be a little longer, it could also use some Stevie and Christine on backup vocals. A music video for this song would have been cool. They needed a music video for one of Lindsey's songs from Mirage. I guess they kinda killed two birds with the Hold Me video because it's both Lindsey and Christine. A music video with the band wandering around New York City or something for Empire State. I'm sure they could have made a cool video. The Gypsy and Hold Me videos were awesome.

8. Hold Me is my favorite song of all time, but there are some change I would make. I love Christine and Lindsey singing in unison, but Christine's voice should be a little bit more prominent than Lindsey's. Secondly, they should have used better grammar. "You and me have plenty of time" instead of "you and me got plenty of time" and "I don't want any damage" instead of "I don't want no damage."

9. Oh Diane is filler. It's kinda catchy, but kind of a waste of space. I would have cut it to enhance the other songs on the album.

10. I like the 1982 live version of Eyes of the World better. The album version should be more like that. Except it doesn't need Stevie and Christine sharing most of the vocals with Lindsey, I like that just for the live version

11. Wish You Were Here is a great Christine love song, but it's kinda boring.

[pattyfan]

What about Straight Back? :)

Kevin

[iamnotafraid]

Seems to be a lot of nit picking going on.

[Wdm6789]

What about Straight Back? :)

Kevin


I wouldn't make any changes to Straight Back

[Macfan4life]

I am a huge Mirage fan so I really would not change too much. But then again I would not change much on any Mac album. I usually don't agree with critics but some of the critics I agree with on Mirage. There was lots of pressure to be commercial after Tusk. I would love to have had a few harder rock songs on the album. But I still LOVE the pop songs on Mirage. Love in Store is probably the perfect pop song with amazing harmonies. Wish you were here is the perfect way to close the album.
Maybe a little bit of rearranging too. I would like Straight Back to kick off the second side. The songs are such perfect pop songs that I could never change any of them because you can hear how much work went into them. Lots of overdubbing. Maybe they tried too hard for a pop album. But I love it. Stevie's voice is at its peak too. The live version of Eyes of the World is much better than the studio version. So maybe if that song was played like that in the studio that would be my nit pick ;) Also today's standards they could fit 12 songs on an album. I would have loved for Stevie to have had 4 songs and each songwriter get 4 songs. But I know in the days of vinyl this was not possible. In 1982 CD's were not even around.
Not so much a nit pick about the album but my biggest nit pick would have been a longer Mirage tour. Instead of 18 cities maybe at least 25 or 30. That still would have been a short tour ;)

I don't believe nit picking on someone else's nit picks but grammar in a song is a bit extreme. Words have meanings and some words sound better singing phrases or songs. Got plenty of time sounds better singing than Have plenty of time. The got has the strong "ga" sound and the 't has the "t" sound. Its catchy and just sounds better singing. Its not an English lesson. Its a hit song ;)

[SisterNightroad]

Smile at you and If you were my love should have been included.
Lindsey's songs apart from Book of love (and even that isn't a masterpiece) should have been casted aside.

[stevierocks87]

-Stevie DEFINITELY should have gotten 1 more song, 3 songs on a 12 song album? Come on. Her voice was absolutely sublime in this era, at its peak IMO, and she had so many great songs. I would probably vote for If You Were my Love, the Mirage version is my favorite.

-I also agree about more Stevie and Christine backing vocals on Lindsey's songs and basically Stevie should be singing backup on every song. Her voice was GOLDEN, why is it so missing?!

-I also agree with EOTW being more like the like version, so much peppier! The "Stephanie" guitar part gets me totally pumped up, my favorite Lindsey composition, but then the chorus "eyes" chanting kind of kills it.

-I agree that some of Lindsey's songs are filler, and I adore Love In Store but otherwise I find myself most often skipping Christine's songs. They are just "meh" to me. Not her best period IMO.

[FuzzyPlum]

-Stevie DEFINITELY should have gotten 1 more song, 3 songs on a 12 song album? Come on. Her voice was absolutely sublime in this era, at its peak IMO, and she had so many great songs.


Song quotas were usually based on album time. Stevies songs always tended to be long and even though she had less songs on the albums she had an equal or greater amount of album time.

You're right to say she was short changed on the Mirage album though. Her three songs for Mirage were each fairly short by her standards totalling 11 minutes and 50 seconds (as opposed to Christine 15.51 and Lindsey 15.33). I agree it would have made for a better album if it had an extra Stevie song.

I dont really like LB's songs on this album at all. Too lightweight and wishywashy. Christines are all solid, though not her best. Though its not universally popular I love 'Only Over You'- its a 40 year old woman singing as if she's a teenager...melts my heart.

[sanders8323]

The demo for "Love in Store" is actually longer. They added another verse and maybe another chorus if memory serves me right. Not sure why it was cut down for the album.

In Gypsy, you can hear Lindsey and Christine singing the "lightning strikes lines," you have to listen very closely. Yes, should have been the long version on the album.

Mirage has Christine's best group of songs, aside from "Wish You Were Here."

There's an awesome rocking demo of "Oh Diane." Wished it would have been this way on the album. Mirage could use some heavier songs.

Other than that, it's an amazing album.

[dawn_amanda]

I could forgive everything else if If You Were My Love made the album. That demo is better than any of the songs that did make the album IMO. :( Who made the choices?!

I like Smile At You as well. I think her rejected Mirage songs are better than her Tango songs, I wish they went back to them.

I also don't think any of Lindsey's songs are really classic tracks on Mirage. Agree that the Live version of Eyes of the World is better.

I prefer the live version of Hold Me too.

Love in Store is perfect though :)

[jbrownsjr]

Mirage is so under rated. I love it so much. If you have the album vs the CD, it's so crisp. I remember how it used to punch you in the face with drums and keys and bass...

I hate the low level recording of the CD

This album, once again, demonstrates how adaptable Christine can be and roll with a concept and make her own mark within the Buckingham laden era.

If any album needed another Nicks track, it's Mirage. (she used to know who she was)

Can't Go Back is wonderful, yet somehow incomplete.

Book of Love does have Christine floating over the top of this track, vocal wise. I'm glad Stevie isn't on it. It's perfect.

Love In Store should have another verse or give it a nice quirky bridge.

Hold Me might be one of the best FM songs out there. It's well written and well performed.

Gypsy has a real Fleetwood Mac sound to it. The backing vocals make it everything. Then, it's topped off by that amazing guitar solo.

Oh Diane sounds like a protest to me, or... Law and Order leftover.

Eyes, eyes, eyes, is another great Fleetwood Mac tune.

That's all for now, if That's All Right..


Uh oh Uh oh Uh oh Uh oh
Uh oh Uh oh Uh oh Uh oh
(sang as Pachelbel's Canon in d minor)

[He's So Unusual]

Empire State seems to get a lot of hate, but I really like it. I will never understand why Oh Diane was a top 10 hit in the UK, very bizarre. That’s Alright and Gypsy are fantastic, but I don't like Straight Back, I think it's one of Stevie's worst songs. Wish You Were Here is the best Christine song on Mirage, the beginning sounds a bit like Silver Springs.

[jbrownsjr]

Empire State seems to get a lot of hate, but I really like it. I will never understand why Oh Diane was a top 10 hit in the UK, very bizarre. That’s Alright and Gypsy are fantastic, but I don't like Straight Back, I think it's one of Stevie's worst songs. Wish You Were Here is the best Christine song on Mirage, the beginning sounds a bit like Silver Springs.

That's because the intro is virtually the same. I think it's inversions of a major chord just going down the keyboard with a tonic, fourth and third in the bass.

I think Christine just pulled it out of her toolbox to put a live intro on SS.

I'll have to go play it to confirm... just going off memory..

[Wdm6789]

Where do you guys hear all this outtakes from Mirage? Are they on youtube?

[jbrownsjr]

Where do you guys hear all this outtakes from Mirage? Are they on youtube?

They've been floating around for years. Youtube, torrents, bootleg cd's.. etc..

[jjfabbsy]

Even though Stevie had the least time on this album, I think her contributions are easily the best of the 3 songwriters...and I find myself listening mainly to her tracks in isolation when bringing out "Mirage".

Christine and Lindsey's tracks lacked impact - "light" is probably the most apt description here in my opinion. I think the Mirage live concert displayed the potential of some of their tracks here - particularly "Love in Store" which could have been quite memorable if it were made more "rockier"....may have even been another one of those Fleetwood Mac hits you hear on the radio along with "Hold Me".

Remember the context of this album and it might explain the lack of fire in Lindsey and Christine, as well as Stevie's lack of airtime. Stevie was coming off the highly successful "Bella Donna" album....Lindsey was coming off his 50's inspired "Law and Order" album....and Christine was looking to release her second solo album. Minds were definitely elsewhere here.

Another nit pick - the mastering on the digital versions of Mirage lack impact, even the 24 bit HD Tracks versions. Purists might enjoy the fact that the recording is not affected by the "loudness" wars, but I still think this needs to be remastered and beefed up for newer systems.

[Wdm6789]

Even though Stevie had the least time on this album, I think her contributions are easily the best of the 3 songwriters...and I find myself listening mainly to her tracks in isolation when bringing out "Mirage".

Christine and Lindsey's tracks lacked impact - "light" is probably the most apt description here in my opinion. I think the Mirage live concert displayed the potential of some of their tracks here - particularly "Love in Store" which could have been quite memorable if it were made more "rockier"....may have even been another one of those Fleetwood Mac hits you hear on the radio along with "Hold Me".

Remember the context of this album and it might explain the lack of fire in Lindsey and Christine, as well as Stevie's lack of airtime. Stevie was coming off the highly successful "Bella Donna" album....Lindsey was coming off his 50's inspired "Law and Order" album....and Christine was looking to release her second solo album. Minds were definitely elsewhere here.

Another nit pick - the mastering on the digital versions of Mirage lack impact, even the 24 bit HD Tracks versions. Purists might enjoy the fact that the recording is not affected by the "loudness" wars, but I still think this needs to be remastered and beefed up for newer systems.


Hold Me and Only Over You are great Christine songs. Love in Store could be a little rockier and longer and Wish You Were Here is beautiful but boring. They always did a better job with Stevie's slow songs than they did with Christine's. Lindsey's songs on Mirage need more of a kick. His Mirage songs need a little Tusk in them. (By "Tusk in them" I mean his good Tusk songs, not the filler minute and a half songs.)

[bobwelchera]

Don't get me wrong, I love all their music, they're amazing artists, but I'm enjoying these discussions.


Mirage:

1. Love in Store could be a little longer and rearranged a little bit. Put the chorus after the first verse instead of going right into the second verse. So it would be: verse one, chorus, verse two, chorus, instrumental break, chorus, instrumental outro. The keyboards should be slightly more prominent also. What can I say? I like pianos.

2. Can't Go Back is good but it's too light. I liked the darkness of Lindsey's songs on Tusk. His songs on Mirage are pretty light and poppy. I like that he was trying to get back to traditional Fleetwood Mac for Mirage but his songs on this album need more of an edge. Can't Go Back is also too short. I don't like when songs are less than three minutes.

3. That's Alright could be longer as well. It should have an instrumental between the two verses and they should sing the chorus twice after the second verse. That's Alright is really underrated, in my opinion. It's a great song. It's an epitome of a Rumours era Fleetwood Mac song. I wish they performed it on the Mirage tour. It would have sounded so good live in 1982.

4. Book of Love, it just needs some Stevie and Christine on it.

5. It would have been awesome if the five and a half minute version of Gypsy was on the album. I also think Lindsey and Christine should sing "lightening strikes maybe once maybe twice" and "she was just a wish." It sounds like only Lindsey singing those lines. They just made it look like they were both singing in the music video.

6. I love Only Over You. I just don't like the line "angel please don't go." I think "baby please don't go" would sound better. We all know Dennis Wilson was no angel. This song would have also sounded awesome live in 1982.

7. I also love Empire State. It just needs to be a little longer, it could also use some Stevie and Christine on backup vocals. A music video for this song would have been cool. They needed a music video for one of Lindsey's songs from Mirage. I guess they kinda killed two birds with the Hold Me video because it's both Lindsey and Christine. A music video with the band wandering around New York City or something for Empire State. I'm sure they could have made a cool video. The Gypsy and Hold Me videos were awesome.

8. Hold Me is my favorite song of all time, but there are some change I would make. I love Christine and Lindsey singing in unison, but Christine's voice should be a little bit more prominent than Lindsey's. Secondly, they should have used better grammar. "You and me have plenty of time" instead of "you and me got plenty of time" and "I don't want any damage" instead of "I don't want no damage."

9. Oh Diane is filler. It's kinda catchy, but kind of a waste of space. I would have cut it to enhance the other songs on the album.

10. I like the 1982 live version of Eyes of the World better. The album version should be more like that. Except it doesn't need Stevie and Christine sharing most of the vocals with Lindsey, I like that just for the live version

11. Wish You Were Here is a great Christine love song, but it's kinda boring.

Certainly an interesting take. Here's my response to them!

1. I think Love In Store's arrangement is fine - the somewhat-abnormal setup adds to it, in my opinion.

2. You're a fan of longer tunes, I see. Here, Can't Go Back's succinctness does leave you wanting a bit more, but I think it's great too. Classic pop songs (see Motown, 50s, and 60s in general,) rarely went beyond the three-minute mark. That being said, I'm a huge fan of the original prog rock songs of six minutes-plus.

3. I friggin' love "That's Alright." Not a fan of your length suggestion on this one either. How crazy would it have been if someone thought, just randomly, to submit that song to country stations at the time? There easily would've been another hit single.

4. Lindsey's pulling a Tusk, Part II with his songs on this one, hence the lack of backing on most of his tunes, methinks.

5. *Definitely* agree about using the long version of Gypsy here, though. It's one of those songs you don't want to end, and I'm rather surprised the single-like version found its way to the album.

6. "Only Over You" is a cute song, but not Christine's strongest. Her contribution at the sixth spot on the upcoming "Tango" was much stronger.

7. Grr. Grr. Grr. "Empire State" is the worst Fleetwood Mac song. Although a video for the tune would've been interesting, it should've been on Lindsey's Law and Order, and replaced with "Goodbye Angel" - a far prettier song.

8. "Straight Back" is okay. This is where I am kind of bummed Stevie had the urge to record a full solo album - she saved some of her best material for it...perhaps some for '83 as well.

9. I would sing "Hold Me" all the friggin' time in ninth grade, 13 years ago. Why change the grammar, though? The song is playful, and one of the relative few times I'm open to improper phrasing, lol. Also, "I don't want any damage" adds another syllable to the melody, causing an unnecessary rush in the lyric. Moreover, the subsequent line is sung "but how'm I gonna manage you?" versus "but how am I gonna manage you?" because it's the same situation.

10. Most folks seem to dislike "Oh Diane" tremendously on here. I don't fully understand why. Perhaps it could be replaced with "Cool Water," but I like the 1950s feel of it. Maybe that's the reason - it sticks out like a sore thumb?

11. "Eyes Of The World" is fun, and would've been an excellent closing tune.

12. "Wish You Were Here" is sweet, but unnecessary - basically "Only Over You" Part II. Christine's my favorite, but I feel like she doubled-up here. I wonder what other songs were at her disposal at this time.

[Jondalar]

What about Straight Back? :)

Kevin

Weak song. Good music. Powerful vocal. Nice idea but lazy, lazy lyrics. Probably the weakest song on the album but not the least memorable.

[Wdm6789]

I think Only Over You is one of Christine's best songs. IMO, it's better than any of her songs on Tusk. It's better than Oh Daddy and Sugar Daddy and Songbird.

[landslide95]

-Stevie DEFINITELY should have gotten 1 more song, 3 songs on a 12 song album? Come on. Her voice was absolutely sublime in this era, at its peak IMO, and she had so many great songs.

I have to agree with you. Mirage is one of my top two in terms of albums so I would have liked to hear more Stevie on this as I considered her songs to be of better quality.

It seems to be a running theme on all albums in regards to how little space Stevie has for her songs. I think the album with more than 3 or 4 of her songs seems to be Tusk but that is because it is a double album. I can't blame Stevie for wanting a solo career. Lindsey is a genius but he definitely is weak compared to Stevie when it comes to writing. I mean even when Stevie's lyrics don't make sense, they still seem to and we can connect to them. But that is a given!

My fav on this album was That's Alright.

[Hawkeye]

Not really a nitpick, more of a very broad observation with Mirage. Stevie's three songs are the only truly great or even really good songs on app the entire album. I've never really liked Hold Me :sorry: and the only other great song is Eyes of the World and that's only because of of the incredible live versions done on the 2003 and 2013 tours. Both times, absolutely a top 5 song of the night. The song is amazing how they play it in the 21st century. But going off the album version, it's as insignificant as the other 9 non-stevie songs. Now I don't hate and or skip all 9 songs. I find book of love and love in store in particular to be very enjoyable songs, but just the overall quality of songs from the 2 of Them is, I hate to use this word, but pathetic compared to what they had delivered just 3 years earlier on Tusk. And for Lindsey just 1 year earlier on Law and Order. Obviously on Tango, it was Stevie's turn to drag down an album and now 30 years later she's currently contributing literally nothing, but in 1982 at least she was the only reason to own a fleetwood Mac album

There is absolutely a reason their 70's albums get the special treatment to their 2 80's albums with all the reissues; They are superior in every way by large margins! Now I'd love a mirage reissue just for the chance of the bonus discs being live concerts from the mirage tour but that has nothing to do with a desire to see the actual album released.

[On Ice]

Overall, I like Mirage, the songs are tight and well performed. As many have said, the album contains two of the band's best ever songs in Gypsy and Hold Me. Problem is, the other tracks are not even close to the bar set by those songs. Sure, there's some sweet vocals splashed throughout, but with weaker songs, it just doesn't have the impact of the far superior 3 predecessors. My biggest beef though is that its weak spots ruin the flow and firmly take the band off its classic rock pedestal and has the masses questioning the band's relevance (at the time anyways). Lindsey's songs are the weakest on the album and his shying away from his Tusk creativity did Mirage no favours. Christine needed at least one killer ballad to make it work, unfortunately Only Over You and Wish you Were Here were too generic to meet the Warm Ways, Over and Over or Songbird standards. By far the biggest miss was turning away from Smile at You or If You Were My Love, heck even Rock a Little could have been played with... at least two great Stevie songs that needed to be fully Mac realized in the day.

[MikeInNV]

Secondly, they should have used better grammar. "You and me have plenty of time" instead of "you and me got plenty of time"

"You and me have plenty of time" is incorrect as well. It would have to be "You and I have plenty of time."

[jjfabbsy]

"You and me have plenty of time" is incorrect as well. It would have to be "You and I have plenty of time."

Now this is true nitpicking! :)

[Wdm6789]

"You and me have plenty of time" is incorrect as well. It would have to be "You and I have plenty of time."


Good catch.

[FuzzyPlum]

Secondly, they should have used better grammar. "You and me have plenty of time" instead of "you and me got plenty of time" and "I don't want any damage" instead of "I don't want no damage."




Would you tell that to Bob Dylan?

[Wdm6789]

Would you tell that to Bob Dylan?


No, this nit pick is only for Hold Me. The song would sound no different with those small changes because the words are so small. I realize it is not always practical to use perfect proper grammar in song writing.