Nit picks I have about Fleetwood Mac (the album)

[Wdm6789]

Because I have a severe case of OCD and I tend to be overly critical.

1. Warm Ways should not have been after Monday Morning. I don't think it flows very well.

2. I really like the line "once in a million years a lady like her rises" from when Stevie sings Rhiannon live, so it would be cool if that line was in the album version.

3. I don't care for the "circus wheel" phrase in Over My Head. Christine could have just said "your mooood.......is changing all the time"

4. I'm not really a fan of Sugar Daddy, I would have rather had something better from Christine. I get that it's kind of an homage to her blues days, but I still would rather have something else. Sugar Daddy sounds like a filler song to me.

5. I think Lindsey's high pitch voice thing in I'm So Afraid is weird. I would like the album version a little better if it sounded more like the live version.

[michelej1]

I love "circus wheel." I love that it sounds like Christine would talk.

I also love "woo me until the sun comes up" in SYLM.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

My only nitpicks with this album are that the shared vocal harmonies on Crystal are a little thin (can't hear Stevie very well) and that Lindsey's vocal on So Afraid is strained and weak.

Christine does everything right on the album. Love all her songs on it. And the studio version of Rhiannon is perfect.

[dawn_amanda]

Great thread subject. Although I love the album I have a few issues too:

1) totally agree it would be amazing if I'm So Afraid was more like the live version - I love how they sang it in 1975 with Stevie doing lots of backing, when she could hit all the high notes. Beautiful.

2) Stevie's backing vocals would have improved Warm Ways, Over My Head, and World Turning IMO. Again I prefer the live/demo versions.

3) Rhiannon is too short!

Basically I guess I think the album needed more Stevie! :] On the other hand I prefer the studio versions of Monday Morning and Blue Letter, because of the vocal arrangements, they sounded more similar to the Buckingham Nicks tour than how they played live in Fleetwood Mac.

[Wdm6789]

My only nitpicks with this album are that the shared vocal harmonies on Crystal are a little thin (can't hear Stevie very well) and that Lindsey's vocal on So Afraid is strained and weak.

Christine does everything right on the album. Love all her songs on it. And the studio version of Rhiannon is perfect.

The vocal harmonies on Crystal are all three of them right? I can hear a little bit of all of their voices in that song.

I love Over My Head, Say You Love Me, and Warm Ways, just not Sugar Daddy.


Great thread subject. Although I love the album I have a few issues too:

1) totally agree it would be amazing if I'm So Afraid was more like the live version - I love how they sang it in 1975 with Stevie doing lots of backing, when she could hit all the high notes. Beautiful.

2) Stevie's backing vocals would have improved Warm Ways, Over My Head, and World Turning IMO. Again I prefer the live/demo versions.

3) Rhiannon is too short!

Basically I guess I think the album needed more Stevie! :] On the other hand I prefer the studio versions of Monday Morning and Blue Letter, because of the vocal arrangements, they sounded more similar to the Buckingham Nicks tour than how they played live in Fleetwood Mac.

I like Warm Ways with just Christine singing. You can hear Lindsey and Stevie doing some ooooooohs in the background during the chorus, they don't need to be on harmony for that song.

Stevie and Lindsey sing backup on Over My Head don't they?

I agree that Stevie could be in World Turning as well.

I would have cut Sugar Daddy and added another Stevie song. She only got two songs on this album and Rumours (which I will be doing another thread like this for).

[vivfox]

I would have cut Sugar Daddy and added another Stevie song. She only got two songs on this album and Rumours (which I will be doing another thread like this for).

I Love every nuance of the white album.

Stevie had 3 songs on Rumours but I can understand your error considering she has always ignored I Don't Want To Know.

[Macfan4life]

The circus wheel line is one of the best in rock history IMHO

My only wish would be the single versions of Over My Head, Say you love me, and Rhiannon were on the album. Lindsey did masterful additions that really made the singles so much better than the album versions. His guitar licks on Say you love me are so good and belong on the album! The added guitar on Over my head and Rhiannon also are so good!

[Mr Scarrott]

I can't quite put my finger on why, but Blue Letter and Monday Morning have something of an aural similarity that annoys me.

I'm no chiffonhead but the fact that Stevie only gets two leads whilst Christine and Lindsey get 4 1/2 doesn't seem just, even taking into account she was a newbie and joined on Lindsey's coat-tails. Kudos to her for agreeing that Lindsey took the lead on Crystal again, I guess. It's a bit like those 1975 shows when Stevie only really sang Rhiannon and did backing vocals on the others.

I agree about the criticisms of Lindsey's vocals on ISA, but I really like Sugar Daddy.

[sadmabelnormand]

I love Sugar Daddy, but I honestly wish Sorcerer was included instead of Sugar Daddy. Sorry Christine!

I also agree about Stevie's backing on World Turning. Live version sounds much better. And Lindsey's high parts on I'm SO Afraid sound borderline falsetto to me.

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey's vocal on So Afraid is strained and weak.

Christine does everything right on the album. Love all her songs on it. And the studio version of Rhiannon is perfect.

I'm sure that's why they dropped the key (live) a whole step.


As a huge Chris fan, I've never been crazy about Warm Ways, but Sugar Daddy makes EVERY greatest hits CD I've EVER made.

[David]

As a huge Chris fan, I've never been crazy about Warm Ways, but Sugar Daddy makes EVERY greatest hits CD I've EVER made.
It's one of the coolest, jiviest songs Fleetwood Mac Marque 10 ever recorded. (And try singing it sometime: it's very difficult to place the words where they should be. That's one of Christine's strengths: she creates unnatural speech emphases but makes them sound erotic and hip, as if she were inventing a slangy new way of talk.)

My listener's problem with the white album is the bloodless way the drums are recorded. Denison told me this was the fashionable practice at the time, but it's completely the wrong way to record Mick Fleetwood. If you don't feel his kick in your belly, either the mics are messed up or he's dead.

I should note that, the same year of 1975, Max Weinberg had more punch on vinyl on "Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out," "Backstreets," etc. But even he is partially eclipsed by the strange practice of eliminating the kick drum bottom end. The multiple drummers (including Elton John's Nigel Olsson) on Rod Stewart's Atlantic Crossing actually have more presence in the sound field, but they do some sloppy technical work on those tracks.

My guess is that all those albums at the time were engineered for AM transistor radios and flip-box phonographs.

[Artemis]

Count me as another one who thinks the studio version of Rhiannon is perfect.

However, I LOVE Lindsey's I'm So Afraid vocal! My only nitpick on that song is I wish Stevie's backing vocals were louder - they sound incredible but you REALLY have to strain to hear them!

[On Ice]

To my ears, the White Album is near perfect but is dragged down by the lack of Stevie vocals who at the time was in perfect voice. Why the group didn't tap into her strength more just seems like a huge missed opportunity considering she became the group's centre of attention only a few short months later. Side one and two both should have had at least 2 Stevie songs and I've always felt that the group should've tackled Sorcerer on side two just before I'm so Afraid. Crystal while performed nicely, actually would've stood out more with a bit of a harder edge such as a good Stevie wail near the end that emerged on a couple of live versions. Rhiannon is perfect the way it is, and World Turning should stay as a Christine/Lindsey duet. Other than that, I wouldn't change a thing.

[FuzzyPlum]

To my ears, the White Album is near perfect but is dragged down by the lack of Stevie vocals who at the time was in perfect voice. Why the group didn't tap into her strength more just seems like a huge missed opportunity considering she became the group's centre of attention only a few short months later.


Cant disagree in hindsight. But Fleetwood Mac have always been aware of continuity and how their fans react to change. Thats why in the Bob Welch years they continued to play a lot of Peter Green material. Thats why on Behind the Mask they made Christine and Stevie as prominent as possible. Thats why on Time they made as much of Christine as possible.

At the time the Fleetwood Mac album came out their fans didnt know much about Stevie Nicks. The idea of a second female voice was alien to them so I suppose it was only to be expected that Stevie's vocals were so limited. Dont forget, Mick didnt even really want Stevie in the first instance- she came along as part of the deal to get Lindsey.

btw, people keep saying Stevie should have had more than 2 songs; she did, she just didnt sing lead on them all.

[sorcerer999]

3. I don't care for the "circus wheel" phrase in Over My Head. Christine could have just said "your mooood.......is changing all the time".

I love it!!! It's actually my favorite part of the song. Even better was the live version they did of it in 1975 and 1976. Stevie sang a very high harmony during that line that was just amazing!

I love Sugar Daddy, but I honestly wish Sorcerer was included instead of Sugar Daddy.

Agreed!!! My God, can you imagine how "Sorcerer" might have turned out on the White album? Especially back in 75' when everyone's vocal range was still intact. I remember reading an article or hearing an interview (can't remember the source) where Stevie stated that they had started working on it but decided to focus more on "Rhiannon" instead. I wonder if there's some sort of Master Work tape floating around out there with "Sorcerer" and some of the other Buckingham Nicks songs that they brought to the table.

In regards to "Sugar Daddy", it's not my favorite but I don't mind it. The words are a tad silly, but it keeps the vibe of the album chugging along, and sort of bridges the gap between the old days ("Spare Me A Little") and the new incarnation ("Say You Love Me") because it sounds like a little bit of both.


My listener's problem with the white album is the bloodless way the drums are recorded. Denison told me this was the fashionable practice at the time, but it's completely the wrong way to record Mick Fleetwood. If you don't feel his kick in your belly, either the mics are messed up or he's dead.

Agree wholeheartedly! I was hoping it would have been "improved" on the 2004 re-master, but no. I'm assuming, like you said, that it was a mic issue and not a mixing issue, which is a shame.

[dawn_amanda]

Agreed!!! My God, can you imagine how "Sorcerer" might have turned out on the White album? Especially back in 75' when everyone's vocal range was still intact. I remember reading an article or hearing an interview (can't remember the source) where Stevie stated that they had started working on it but decided to focus more on "Rhiannon" instead. I wonder if there's some sort of Master Work tape floating around out there with "Sorcerer" and some of the other Buckingham Nicks songs that they brought to the table.

If there is such a tape it is my dream to find it. Sorcerer and Candlebright! They were both considered for the White Album. I think it's tragic there aren't completed recordings with Lindsey and Stevie's beautiful harmonies back when her voice was so perfect...
I have read on a Buckingham Nicks site that there is an extremely rare Fleetwood Mac recording of Sorcerer that is almost Bluegrass sounding. So if that is true there really is a recording somewhere! :blob1:

[Macfanforever]

I cant think of any nit picks at this moment but please give me some time and I will add to this thread

I can add this. I was alittle POed over the EP thing with no hard copy release.

[chiliD]

Lindsey's on record saying that he recorded "I'm So Afraid" in the wrong key for his voice. He said it was in the key that he wrote the guitar parts, but didn't even think about how he was going to sing it. Didn't realize it was too high until during the recording process. (why they didn't just re-record it, I don't know, unless they were being cost conscious) That's why they dropped the key a whole step for the concerts after that.

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey's on record saying that he recorded "I'm So Afraid" in the wrong key for his voice. That's why they dropped the key a whole step for the concerts after that.

There's a danged echo in here here here here here!!!!! :blob2:
:sorry:

[chiliD]

There's a danged echo in here here here here here!!!!! :blob2:
:sorry:

Using Digital Delay?

With an Analog Delay, it would've been:

in here...ere..........ear........eer..........rrr

:nod::laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

Using Digital Delay?

With an Analog Delay, it would've been:

in here...ere..........ear........eer..........rrr

:nod::laugh:

..............every time that you walk in the room...............

[bsavi4]

I would only change 2 things. One would be replacing the 3 singles and Blue Letter with their single mixes, and the second would be having Stevie sing lead on Crystal. I think the song suits her voice well, and i don't love Lindsey's vocal on either version. She did do a version in the 1990's for a movie, but by then her voice was so worn out.

[teedeerocks]

I would only change 2 things. One would be replacing the 3 singles and Blue Letter with their single mixes, and the second would be having Stevie sing lead on Crystal. I think the song suits her voice well, and i don't love Lindsey's vocal on either version. She did do a version in the 1990's for a movie, but by then her voice was so worn out.

Practical Magic

[ViscountViktor]

Great thread subject. Although I love the album I have a few issues too:

1) totally agree it would be amazing if I'm So Afraid was more like the live version - I love how they sang it in 1975 with Stevie doing lots of backing, when she could hit all the high notes. Beautiful.

2) Stevie's backing vocals would have improved Warm Ways, Over My Head, and World Turning IMO. Again I prefer the live/demo versions.

3) Rhiannon is too short!

Basically I guess I think the album needed more Stevie! :] On the other hand I prefer the studio versions of Monday Morning and Blue Letter, because of the vocal arrangements, they sounded more similar to the Buckingham Nicks tour than how they played live in Fleetwood Mac.

Stevie is on Warm Ways, but I agree, she needed to do the live harmonys on Over My Head.

[jbrownsjr]

I would love more Stevie on Warm Ways...

[dawn_amanda]

There is a rehearsal or demo recording where Stevie does a harmony line on warm ways that is lovely.

[PenguinHead]

Because I have a severe case of OCD and I tend to be overly critical.

1. Warm Ways should not have been after Monday Morning. I don't think it flows very well.

2. I really like the line "once in a million years a lady like her rises" from when Stevie sings Rhiannon live, so it would be cool if that line was in the album version.

3. I don't care for the "circus wheel" phrase in Over My Head. Christine could have just said "your mooood.......is changing all the time"

4. I'm not really a fan of Sugar Daddy, I would have rather had something better from Christine. I get that it's kind of an homage to her blues days, but I still would rather have something else. Sugar Daddy sounds like a filler song to me.

5. I think Lindsey's high pitch voice thing in I'm So Afraid is weird. I would like the album version a little better if it sounded more like the live version.

I give you credit for acknowledging your OCD.

I agree that having Warm Ways following Monday Morning wasn't the best choice. Though I may not be in the majority, I think Sugar Daddy is a great song. Her "circus wheel" phrase in Over My Head gives a rather generic lyric some distinctive character. It's just a metaphor. Do you have an issue with metaphors?:laugh:

[Wdm6789]

I give you credit for acknowledging your OCD.

I agree that having Warm Ways following Monday Morning wasn't the best choice. Though I may not be in the majority, I think Sugar Daddy is a great song. Her "circus wheel" phrase in Over My Head gives a rather generic lyric some distinctive character. It's just a metaphor. Do you have an issue with metaphors?:laugh:


I have no problem with similes, I just have never liked that one for some reason.

[michelej1]

Though, "like a circus wheel" is a simile.

I like "circus wheel" but Christine has gotten carried away with herself. Liar had jack of hearts, shining knight, heart of darkness, walls tumbling down, a gambler shuffling cards. I was like, "oh my goodness. Settle down, lady!"


Michele

[PenguinHead]

The circus wheel line is one of the best in rock history IMHO

My only wish would be the single versions of Over My Head, Say you love me, and Rhiannon were on the album. Lindsey did masterful additions that really made the singles so much better than the album versions. His guitar licks on Say you love me are so good and belong on the album! The added guitar on Over my head and Rhiannon also are so good!

The album mixes blend more consistently within the context of the album.
The single versions were given a more robust treatment. These should have be featured on their compilation albums -- The Chain, Greatest Hits and The Very Best. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there also a Blue Letter single mix treatment?

[PenguinHead]

I have no problem with similes, I just have never liked that one for some reason.

:laugh: yeah, I meant simile, not metaphor. Opps! My mind is like a circus wheel!

[jbrownsjr]

The album mixes blend more consistently within the context of the album.
The single versions were given a more robust treatment. These should have be featured on their compilation albums -- The Chain, Greatest Hits and The Very Best. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there also a Blue Letter single mix treatment?

Yes, it's on the FM remaster.