The real reason the first Stand Back video was nixed?

[Macfan4life]

Back in 1983 I used to buy and collect every rock or music magazine that had any reference to Stevie Nicks or Fleetwood Mac. There was a tiny article in one of those magazines in the summer of 1983 that wrote something like this:

Stevie nixes video because she thought she looked too fat.
Stevie Nicks nixed the first video for Stand Back because she looked too fat. The second video cost a whopping $75,000 (that was a lot of money for a video in 1983).

In 1983 no one ever saw the Civil War video. It was not until many years later when the civil war video surfaced that I remembered reading the first video was axed.


Anyone remember reading this too? I don't think she looks fat in the civil war video. But the dress she wore for the civil war era would put pounds on anyone.

[johnnystorms]

i read the exact same thing!
I think it was just so odd for such a contemporary sounding song, the record co. decided to re-shoot it.. the Civil War vid sucks, if we're being honest.

[SisterNightroad]

I've read it too.
I think mainly she reshoot it simply because it was fugly.
Have you heard the version with the commentary?

<iframe width="854" height="510" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4xKc177QNAE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[johnnystorms]

AND, the CW video was the expensive one , if you recall from that article.. I thin it cost 250.000$
the re-shoot was a bargain

[Danigirl]

My goodness Stevie, indecisve as ever. In her defense, she does look fat. I think this vid could have worked if she had been a sexy rock and roll woman instead of this Halloween costume Stevie with 80's hair and a frumpy dress.

[Danigirl]

Thanks for posting this! Just when I think I know it all... Stevie never fails to surprise me.

[michelej1]

Ha ha. Just like Silver Springs had to be delayed to make a big splash 20 years later, the Civil War video had to be delayed so we could get so much pleasure from Stevie's audio commentary on Crystal Visions so many years later.

All of those chickens!

It makes me wish Fleetwood Mac would do audio commentary on the Little Lies barn video.

Michele

[Richard B]

My goodness Stevie, indecisve as ever. In her defense, she does look fat. I think this vid could have worked if she had been a sexy rock and roll woman instead of this Halloween costume Stevie with 80's hair and a frumpy dress.

I agree. Plus her height in that kind of frumpy dress is not doing her any favors. Her backup singers looked much, much better in the video. The whole video is just kinda lame. I do like the horseback riding along to the thumping beat of the song.

[He's So Unusual]

Both videos are crap. The dancers in the other Stand Back video are so cheesy I can't even watch it. The 1980s are great in a lot of ways, but most music videos from the early 1980s are (understandably) dire. At least Stevie never resorted to twerking and stripping off.

[UndoingTheLaces]

The Rolling Stone Book of Rock Video has an entire chapter dedicated to the making of the original Stand Back video. I read it in the late 80's and thought I'd never get to see the video. Sometime in the mid 90's I was at a record fair and found a bootleg VHS full of Stevie Rarities, it had the now infamous Wild Heart dressing room video, the bitchy purple velvet interview, and the original Stand Back video. I was in Stevie heaven! It think I still have the tape somewhere, but everything on it is now on YouTube.

Anyway, I don't have the book anymore, but you can get it used on Amazon pretty cheap (see the link below). I recall that the chapter on Stand Back was written by the director and he was really pissed that she yanked it. He did say that he showed her the rough cut and she yanked it because she looked to fat in a couple of scenes. So the version we've seen may have not been what the finished product would have looked like. It might have had a little more polish to it. But for a song that was so electronic I think the neon lights and dancers probably did wonders for making the song such a hit and the Civil War video wouldn't have helped it nearly as much. On the other hand, the video for No More Words by Berlin was a Bonnie & Clyde thing that was also a period piece and it did pretty well. I wonder if that was the same guys. Maybe if Stevie had kept the video we would have had a whole series of period piece 80's music videos.

The book also has a really nice chapter on the making of Cyndi Lauper's Girls Just Want To Have Fun video.

Here's the link to the book. http://www.amazon.com/Rolling-stone-book-rock-video/dp/0688039162

I always thought the real reason she pulled the video is because she looks really stoned in many of the scenes. Like in the bar where she saunters up to him and tries to put her arms around him. She kind of galumphs over and her eyes are half shut.

[Danielle]

Am I the only one doesn't think she looks fat in the video? :shrug:

[Macfanforever]

Yea She did not like it.I thought it was great.

[Macfanforever]

Am I the only one doesn't think she looks fat in the video? :shrug:

The lenses do a number on some people.I remember actors and actresses having the same issues with the cameras.

[iamnotafraid]

Am I the only one doesn't think she looks fat in the video? :shrug:

Yes, you are the only one.

[iamnotafraid]

The lenses do a number on some people.I remember actors and actresses having the same issues with the cameras.

Those issues are called macfatitus (Latin).
In Stevie's particular case it started showing
up around 1982.

[bombaysaffires]

Am I the only one doesn't think she looks fat in the video? :shrug:

no, you are not.

[bombaysaffires]

The Rolling Stone Book of Rock Video has an entire chapter dedicated to the making of the original Stand Back video. I read it in the late 80's and thought I'd never get to see the video. Sometime in the mid 90's I was at a record fair and found a bootleg VHS full of Stevie Rarities, it had the now infamous Wild Heart dressing room video, the bitchy purple velvet interview, and the original Stand Back video.

which video are you referring to here?

[PenguinHead]

I love the video, but a civil war theme is a very bizarre concept for this style of song. Even Stevie misconstrued the context of the story line.
When Stevie touches the soldier's coat, it reveals that he is the enemy, either a Confederate or Union soldier. So the others attack him. Of course Stevie thinks they are coming to her rescue her from being hassled, but that wasn't the case. What I find funny is watching her mouthing the words to the song when she she walks into the saloon.

[SisterNightroad]

Am I the only one doesn't think she looks fat in the video? :shrug:
No, I think she looks great in both the videos.
But I think the civil war video is a bit cheesy, then again in the eighties 'cheesy' was the rule.

[Macfan4life]

I already mentioned that I thought she did not look fat. But she does look so much better in the new Stand Back video. She turned on her sex appeal no doubt.......and it worked!
I had to chuckle when I read some thought the video did not make sense or was not logical. That describes well over half of all the videos in the 80's.
I love the 83 vibe of the video with the dancers. Flashdance was burning up the theaters and music charts. That movie also created a fashion statement with cut off sweat shirts. So I love the "cheezy" 80's dancers. Who does not love Brad Jeffries's spin and pump towards the camera. But Stevie dancing in front of glass block windows makes it the perfect 80's video :eek:
But seriously.....Stevie looked hot and sexy in black and pretty in pink. I love how the video goes back and forth with her in black and pink. For a relatively simple video, its really good! The reverse walk on an inclined treadmill worked really good :eek:

Many years later Lita Ford did a video for "Kiss Me Deadly" and the theme of the video was making fun at Stevie's 83 Stand Back video. Those are Lita's words about the video...not mine. Here is the video and you be the judge.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2209r_lita-ford-kiss-me-deadly_music?start=4

[SisterNightroad]

I really don't see how the Lita Ford video could resemble Stevie's in any way...

[Macfan4life]

I really don't see how the Lita Ford video could resemble Stevie's in any way...
When Kiss Me Deadly was released in 1988 it was a HUGE video on MTV. Stand Back never came to my mind either. Years later on Behind the Music (Lita Ford) or another place Lita mentioned it was the inspiration for the video and was poking fun at it. I think Lita said she actually was going to put a tread mill in the video. But once I saw Kiss Me Deadly after what she said, I got the subtle Stand Back vibe. She is singing into a black microphone like Stevie with fans blowing her hair like when Stevie is on the tread mill. She is singing in front of block glass. There are scenes of Lita in dark clothes and then light clothes flashing back and forth. Its subtle without being extremely obvious. I don't think anyone would know unless Lita told people. But when I see the video, I can see the Stand Back Stevie inspiration. Kiss Me Deadly was directed by Marty Callner (who directed Fleetwood Mac in 1982 and also worked with Stevie).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Callner

[PenguinHead]

No, I think she looks great in both the videos.
But I think the civil war video is a bit cheesy, then again in the eighties 'cheesy' was the rule.

Cheesy is the standard for most videos. I was the generational demographic when MTV launched. Remember the early format that featured VJs?

The eighties was a weird period for music, and visual aspect of it. New Wave was big, and new technologies became a dominant player in the sound and production of music.
I rejected most of it, preferring more organic music from the sixties and seventies. It has taken decades, but I've come around to appreciate the absurdities and sensibilities of the music and the videos of that time.

[SisterNightroad]

Cheesy is the standard for most videos. I was the generational demographic when MTV launched. Remember the early format that featured VJs?

The eighties was a weird period for music, and visual aspect of it. New Wave was big, and new technologies became a dominant player in the sound and production of music.
I rejected most of it, preferring more organic music from the sixties and seventies. It has taken decades, but I've come around to appreciate the absurdities and sensibilities of the music and the videos of that time.

I'm born in the early 90s so I can't talk first handedly, but you would think that having grown-up during the bubblegum pop period should have prepared me for the 80s taste but it didn't. I'm a fan since 2010 and just now I've come to appreciate the 80s Fleetwood Mac Stevie period; I think the 80s are a very peculiar era for music and customs, it seems like they took all the most eccentric part of all the other decades and put it together.
When you start to understand and take them for what they are they are really fun though.

[UndoingTheLaces]

For something to be cheesy it has to first be good. In the 80's we were rebelling against how the 60's were so mellow and the 70's were so polyester with things being exaggerated. Big collars, big ties, loud patterns. The 80's were about taking different eras of fashion and making them into something totally new. It was also a backlash of the conservative past that was still a part of mainstream society. The everyday person didn't dress like the look of 80's videos but the people going to the nightclubs did. It was totally fashionable at the time, even though it was wild and crazy. Twenty years from now people will look at Lady Gaga and think "what was she going on about?"

[SisterNightroad]

then again in the eighties 'cheesy' was the rule.

Cheesy is the standard for most videos. I was the generational demographic when MTV launched. Remember the early format that featured VJs?

The eighties was a weird period for music, and visual aspect of it. New Wave was big, and new technologies became a dominant player in the sound and production of music.

It was totally fashionable at the time, even though it was wild and crazy.

I've just found the proof of all of it, we shouldn't have been so harsh on Stevie it' could have been way worse... this is possibly the tackiest video I've ever seen:

<iframe width="854" height="510" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nh98WYTPq1s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bombaysaffires]

the video that killed Billy Squier's career :eek:

[SisterNightroad]

Yes, it was mentioned in the comments.
I don't know that man, he's unknown in my country, but I'm crossed between feeling sympathy towards him because he's done such embarassing things in front of the whole America or blaming him for his poor tastes and choices.

[Macfan4life]

Ha! The infamous Billy Squire video. They talk about that all the time on Stern. The concept is bad because without a guitar he had little choices but to prance around and swing his hands. Its definitely PEAK 80's with ripped shirts and glam. He does look very stupid twirling his arms around like that. But do I dare say Stevie looked pretty dumb during the video for I CANT WAIT during the merry go round music part twirling her hands around too :eek:
There I said it :eek:

[SisterNightroad]

The last part of the video in which he holds the guitar is just slightly better though...

I think Stevie would have handled this kind of situation with more grace being used to perform without an instrument and having the aid of her famous shawls and billowy skirts.

However the worst thing is that it's not even a bad song. Very 80s, but it's not bad.

[MarkMc1990]

I secretly love the Civil War version with all my heart.

[michelej1]

I am glad the Civil War version exists now, but I don't think it was the best way to promote the album, THEN.

Now, it's a treasure to have it. Michele

[Newzchspy]

the video that killed Billy Squier's career :eek:

Or the one that killed Steve Perry's career: https://youtu.be/5-WpsdC2-Cc

[Newzchspy]

I am glad the Cuvil War version exists now, but I don't think it was the best way to promote the album, THEN.

Now, it's a treasure to have it. Michele

Michele, do you think they'll remove the Confederate Flag from the Civil War version???

[Macfan4life]

Michele, do you think they'll remove the Confederate Flag from the Civil War version???
There would be no reason to remove a Confederate flag from a video that is supposed to represent a real Civil War battle. That is really the only reason to display the confederate flag. Now if Stevie was running with the flag in I CANT WAIT, it would be different. Civil war reenactments will always include the confederate flag.

Tom Petty this week rebuked his 1985 use of the flag for Born A Rebel tour

[Macfanforever]

If the current time was 1983 or 1984 .The civil war video probably get banned and removed from the MTV/VH1 video line up after the current events.If this was the only video available of Stand Back.

[Macfanforever]

Or the one that killed Steve Perry's career: https://youtu.be/5-WpsdC2-Cc

I forgot about this video.Steve looks like Jimmy Fallon in some of those shots.

[PenguinHead]

Yes, it was mentioned in the comments.
I don't know that man, he's unknown in my country, but I'm crossed between feeling sympathy towards him because he's done such embarassing things in front of the whole America or blaming him for his poor tastes and choices.

He was a flash in the pan; completely forgettable until you unearthed this video and revived the memory. Watching it just made me giggle! Thanks for the laughs. It's amazing to think I lived through this era! I gravitated more to groups and artists who either defied and/or ultimately survived the 1980s.

As you mentioned, Fleetwood Mac, along with the solo careers of Stevie, Lindsey and Christine, came through rather unscathed. The aesthetics may look or sound dated, but that is the fundamental nature of time.

[PenguinHead]

I secretly love the Civil War version with all my heart.

Well, it's not a secret anymore!

I really like the video too! I had a blurry copy on a VCR tape for so many years. It's amazing to have a clear digital release decades later.

[SisterNightroad]

He was a flash in the pan; completely forgettable until you unearthed this video and revived the memory. Watching it just made me giggle! Thanks for the laughs. It's amazing to think I lived through this era! I gravitated more to groups and artists who either defied and/or ultimately survived the 1980s.
You're welcome, I laughed a lot too.
I used to think that Journey's "Separate ways" or Billy Idol's "Eyes without a face" were the most ridiculous videos of the 80s, but I was wrong.

[Macfanforever]

I rather watch these ridiculous videos from any artists or bands on MTV,VH1 and CMT then the crap they have on those channels today.

Why they are still branding those channel with music is a good question.

[SpyNote]

I'm glad the second Stand Back video won out. It was obviously more on trend with the time. Apart from what the dancers are wearing, it holds up pretty well in her video catalog.

I used to watch Night Tracks every weekend on TBS, waiting for "Stand Back" and "Gypsy" to come on. I probably watched NT and Friday Night Videos more than MTV!

[iamnotafraid]

Tom Petty this week rebuked his 1985 use of the flag for Born A Rebel tour

That was a really courageous move. You tell them Tom!

From the grave Waylon Jennings asked that his Good Ole Boys be
removed from the Dukes Of Hazzard. At least they only showed his hands
and not his face on TV.

[SisterNightroad]

I don't remember if this has already been said, but I've just read on the Ivory Keys site:

In Danny Goldberg's book, (he co-founded Modern Records with Stevie and Paul Fishkin), he revealed the truth about the Civil War concept being for the original lead single, "If Anyone Falls", and that it was too late to change the theme when "Stand Back" became the new lead single (sets already built, costumes bought, director hired, etc.) After watching the final results, everyone agreed that they should go ahead and film another video for "Stand Back".

[UndoingTheLaces]

I don't remember if this has already been said, but I've just read on the Ivory Keys site:

In Danny Goldberg's book, (he co-founded Modern Records with Stevie and Paul Fishkin), he revealed the truth about the Civil War concept being for the original lead single, "If Anyone Falls", and that it was too late to change the theme when "Stand Back" became the new lead single (sets already built, costumes bought, director hired, etc.) After watching the final results, everyone agreed that they should go ahead and film another video for "Stand Back".

That totally contradicts what was said by the video's director and Stevie herself, as far as why it was pulled. But I could see that concept working really well for If Anyone Falls.

[SisterNightroad]

I could see that concept working really well for If Anyone Falls.
I thought the exact same thing.
However these things are not mutually exclusive. When talking about events that happened so long ago it's normal that all of them don't remember the same things.

[starshine]

I rather watch these ridiculous videos from any artists or bands on MTV,VH1 and CMT then the crap they have on those channels today.

Why they are still branding those channel with music is a good question. Yeah, thats a great question. MTV is all reality crap shows now. Not how awesome it was back in the 80's heyday thats for sure. Kids now have no idea how cool it was. Heck I'd just leave the TV on it and watch the video's all the time with the VJ's. I'd even put a VHS tape in and record them I'm sure I still have a tape around it someplace. Need to find it and watch it again. I'd probabaly laugh at whats on it for sure. Would be cool though. Remember the video countdowns of all the artisits every year? That was cool too. I think VH1 Classic still shows music video's but I agree they need to change there names to something else cause there isn't anything 'music' about them anymore its a joke!!:shrug::D

[PenguinHead]

Am I the only one doesn't think she looks fat in the video? :shrug:

I'm with you; I don't think she looks fat. I prefer this video over the remake. Both were cheesy, but you could say that about most videos, both then and now. The civil war theme was a bizarre idea, yet it was visually interesting, as it was like a mini movie.

Certain historical aspects of the concept eluded Stevie. At end of the video, in the saloon, Stevie's hand grazes one of the soldier's uniform , exposing him as the enemy in disguise (a confederate). That's why the other soldiers attacked him. In her narrative about the video she surmises that maybe he was attacked because "he was hassling her or something." It was the "something."

[iamnotafraid]

Instead of fat, I'd say she looks soft during the
time of that video.

[Papillon]

This thread went in several directions, so-
I don't think she looks fat in the Civil War video, but she looks *so* much better in the second video. Stunning, truly. Plus imo the Civil War video just doesn't fit the song as well as the other video. For If Anyone Falls? Idk, I'd have to think about that...
I kind of get the connection between Lita's video & Stevie's, but I would never have thought of that til it was mentioned. I have a hard time listening to that song- basically any Lita song- so this is probably the only time I forced myself to view the entire thing (volume off).
I loved Billy Squier & some of his early stuff: My Kind Of Lover, Lonely Is The Night, In The Dark, even (to a lesser extent) The Stroke & Emotions In Motion. That video ended his career, kind of like Peter Frampton did by following up his fantastic live album with I'm In You.
About early MTV: yes it was always on now matter what I was doing! And I, too, had a VHS tape loaded so I was prepped to record at a moment's notice. What a fun memory- I forgot about that, so tyvm for reminding me! Good times.

[JohnL]

Am I the only one doesn't think she looks fat in the video? :shrug:

I don't think she looks fat at all. I agree that the concept for the video doesn't fit the song but she looks great. She couldn't have looked even the tiniest bit fat in those days.

[cactusjack]

Certain historical aspects of the concept eluded Stevie. At end of the video, in the saloon, Stevie's hand grazes one of the soldier's uniform , exposing him as the enemy in disguise (a confederate). That's why the other soldiers attacked him. In her narrative about the video she surmises that maybe he was attacked because "he was hassling her or something." It was the "something."

lol, that is pretty funny

[bombaysaffires]

Instead of fat, I'd say she looks soft during the
time of that video.

good description. Stevie, even during her most active ballet days, never seemed to have real muscle definition or a firm body. She's always had a soft tummy area, even at her skinniest. She was never Madonna....:p

[olive]

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x1unv10" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1unv10_stand-back-stevie-nicks-jezebel-william-wyler_shortfilms" target="_blank">Stand Back (Stevie Nicks) - Jezebel (William...</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/NeverHasSeenSnow" target="_blank">NeverHasSeenSnow</a></i>

[deribish]

I have no idea if this was done by the same director -- or anything — BUT Bonnie Tyler's "Holding Out for a Hero" video seems to combine near-duplicate shots of Lori's little shack, the horse speeding along in the dusk, fire burning and more. Check it out.

It looks like they just re-used the left overs from the STAND BACK Civil War video -- BUT in a MUCH cheesier video:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bWcASV2sey0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[iamnotafraid]

good description.

Thanks.

I didn't mind her looking soft.

When were abs created?

[bwboy]

I think the video for Gypsy was so popular that her record company probably wanted another video to really showcase Stevie. But I agree, the Civil War theme didn't fit the song at all, so they made a good decision.

I can kind of see If Anyone Falls fitting the video, though. Maybe without all the destruction imagery and more of it taking place in grassy fields or shaded trees. Or more horseback riding- "If Anyone Falls on their ass, somewhere in the twilight..."

[SisterNightroad]

I've just found the proof of all of it, we shouldn't have been so harsh on Stevie it' could have been way worse... this is possibly the tackiest video I've ever seen:
the previous video was taken down from youtube so here again, it put me in a good mood: everyone can screw up badly;
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fR0j7sModCI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bwboy]

Wow, what was Billy thinking?!? Watching him skip, rip his shirt, crawl, and hump the floor was unlike anything I've ever seen before! He could have been the lead in Flashdance.

[DauphineMarie]

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x1unv10" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1unv10_stand-back-stevie-nicks-jezebel-william-wyler_shortfilms" target="_blank">Stand Back (Stevie Nicks) - Jezebel (William...</a> <i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/NeverHasSeenSnow" target="_blank">NeverHasSeenSnow</a></i>

Wow! Bette Davis is my favourite actress, and this movie is fabulous, and this is just amazing!!

[UndoingTheLaces]

which video are you referring to here?

Okay, it's only taken a year to answer this. LOL. Sorry, I never saw this post before.

The bitchy interview was done during the Street Angel era and Stevie is wearing what looks like a purple velvet catsuit with matching gloves and this big bow in her hair, and long dangling earrings. It's unlike any outfit I've ever seen her wear. It was on YouTube but I can't find it. It may still be there, it was in three or four parts. She talked about not speaking to Mick over Silver Springs and how she's left (or leaving) FM for good. They ask her if she's read Mick's book and she said "I didn't read it... I didn't need to... I LIVED it" or something like that. My favorite part is that she says if she did read it she would go through it with a red pen going "spelled wrong... big lie... never happened". That really made me laugh.

[DauphineMarie]

Okay, it's only taken a year to answer this. LOL. Sorry, I never saw this post before.

The bitchy interview was done during the Street Angel era and Stevie is wearing what looks like a purple velvet catsuit with matching gloves and this big bow in her hair, and long dangling earrings. It's unlike any outfit I've ever seen her wear. It was on YouTube but I can't find it. It may still be there, it was in three or four parts. She talked about not speaking to Mick over Silver Springs and how she's left (or leaving) FM for good. They ask her if she's read Mick's book and she said "I didn't read it... I didn't need to... I LIVED it" or something like that. My favorite part is that she says if she did read it she would go through it with a red pen going "spelled wrong... big lie... never happened". That really made me laugh.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hmEfUxVW5Y4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I believe this is what you're talking about? :)

[UndoingTheLaces]

I believe this is what you're talking about? :)

YES!!!! I like the "kinder and gentler" Stevie of today better but there's something delicious about her biting comments. She's like Stevie's evil twin sister. LOL.