Is Bruce Jenner really having a sex change?

[Jondalar]

Is Bruce Jenner really having a sex change?

[PenguinHead]

It's pretty obvious.

[SisterNightroad]

Bruce Jenner Comes Out As Transgender

Bruce Jenner has come out as transgender.

The 65-year-old made the revelation during a special with Diane Sawyer on ABC's "20/20" Friday night.

"I'm me. I'm a person. This is who I am. I'm not stuck in anybody's body. My brain is much more female than male," Jenner said. "For all intents and purposes, I am a woman. People look at me differently. They see you as this macho male, but my heart and my soul and everything that I do in life it is part of me, that female side is part of me. That's who I am. I was not genetically born that way. ... As of now I have all the male parts and all that kind of stuff so in a lot of ways we're different, but we still identify as female. And that's very hard for Bruce Jenner today. Why? I don't want to disappoint people."

Jenner said he is sexually attracted to women. He was careful to emphasize the difference between gender and sexuality. As a child, he dressed in women's clothing. He also revealed that he has gone out in public dressed as a woman for years.

"It was that important to you that you’d take that kind of risk?" Sawyer asked.

"Absolutely," he replied.

Jenner said being on a show like "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" is not a hindrance; It gives him a platform to be able to have real impact.

"We’re going to change the world," he told Sawyer. "I really firmly believe that we’re going to make a difference in the world."

Support came in almost instantly.

"Today, millions of people learned that someone they know is transgender," GLAAD president and CEO Sarah Kate Ellis said in a statement to The Huffington Post. "By sharing this story, Bruce Jenner has shined a light on what it means to be transgender and live authentically in the face of unimaginable public scrutiny. Though Jenner's journey is one that is deeply personal, it is also one that will impact and inspire countless people around the world."

While on the red carpet at Variety's Power of Women luncheon on Friday, Jenner's stepdaughter Kim Kardashian said her family members planned to watch the program together.

“I think everybody can learn from his story and I'm excited for him to be able to share that," Kardashian said when asked what her daughter, North, can eventually learn from Jenner. "We all just support him 100 percent. I hate so badly when I see things [like] my mom doesn't support him, or this sister doesn't support him. It's all just a story that people want to put out there. None of us have spoken and we're letting Bruce speak first.”

The Huffington Post reached out to Kardashian and Jenner family representatives, but they have not yet commented.

Named the "world's greatest athlete" when he won the decathlon gold at the 1976 Olympics, Jenner joined the Kardashian family when he married Kris in 1991. He became a stepparent to Kourtney, Kim, Khloe and Rob Kardashian, and later welcomed two daughters with Kris, Kendall and Kylie Jenner. He has been a central figure on the family's E! reality show since its premiere in 2007. He and Kris announced they were splitting in 2013 after 22 years of marriage.

The former Olympian was previously married to Linda Thompson and Chrystie Scott, and had two children with each of them. Scott recently said she supports Jenner "in whatever he chooses to do."

Note: Though Jenner has come out as “for all intents and purposes a woman,” he has not yet indicated that he would like to be known by a new name or female pronouns, so this story uses male pronouns.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/29/bruce-jenner-transgender_n_6570738.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

[chriskisn]

People have such a problem with transgender. Not sure why. Let her live her life and I'll live mine. :)

[Jondalar]

People have such a problem with transgender. Not sure why. Let her live her life and I'll live mine. :)

I think a lot of people don't understand how someone can want a sex change without being gay.

[chriskisn]

I think a lot of people don't understand how someone can want a sex change without being gay.

I guess because gender identity and sexual preference are two different things. Otherwise the reverse would also be true, how could someone be gay without wanting to change sex?

Feeling you are trapped in the wrong body has nothing to do with whether you are attracted to men, women or aircraft :)

[SisterNightroad]

If someone hasn't already seen:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2242787.1433185043!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/lange2f-1-web.jpg

http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201551/rs_560x415-150601141505-1024.Caitlyn-Jenner-Jessica-Lange.ms.60115.jpg

[Macfanforever]

If someone hasn't already seen:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2242787.1433185043!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/lange2f-1-web.jpg

http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201551/rs_560x415-150601141505-1024.Caitlyn-Jenner-Jessica-Lange.ms.60115.jpg


They did a nice job on her.

[SisterNightroad]

I hope you're referring to Caitlyn because Jessica is all natural! :laugh:

[Macfanforever]

I hope you're referring to Caitlyn because Jessica is all natural! :laugh:

Caitlyn of course.LOL.

[PenguinHead]

Why can't some people understand the difference between sexual orientation and gender orientation?

Homosexual people are simply attracted to their own gender.

Transgender people feel they aren't the gender they should be. Though they changed their gender, their sexual orientation hasn't changed.

Now that Bruce's gender orientation is that of a woman, her attraction to women remains. Caitlyn is a lesbian.

[SisterNightroad]

I think it's because at school and other formative places we don't talk enough about it. Here sexual education comes and goes every few years and there still are some crazy over-religious people that are morally offended by these things, I guess it's the same with the most conservative Republicans in the U.S.
In my experience I received a bit of sex ed in schools and I've been lucky, but most of all I had to search for informations myself and almost all of my peers wouldn't do that.
I consider myself pretty open-minded but still the first time I asked myself about the difference between being homosexual and being transexual was at university when I started studying psychology; it's not that before I firmly believed that those who change their sex identity must also be gay, but I had never had the occasion to put much thought about it. That's the big mistake.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/0d0e0f93e2440dcfd9df11b2362c46cc/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo1_540.gif http://31.media.tumblr.com/e685c5a1364d9b89c9646bbd918557f0/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo2_540.gif

http://33.media.tumblr.com/7eee1c70cfdef5dfac31fdadf5a845df/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo3_540.gif http://38.media.tumblr.com/3589bc81cafeee33c11f14b80917933c/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo4_540.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/f671640b71e6dc2e35ddd42b5860fef4/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo6_540.gif http://33.media.tumblr.com/a291a8d4c11377f3a31836fbf42ebf10/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo5_540.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/a391e5b9cdd244afeaf34a9b6df05719/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo7_540.gif http://33.media.tumblr.com/07878466cc6502a3bbe5cd31bd1fd653/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo8_540.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/c1b16df4998425f6767961a1d60b9d67/tumblr_nqpn4irnnX1r83d7lo9_540.gif

[iamnotafraid]

Caitlyn is a lesbian.

Are we living in Bizarro World?

Next your going to tell me he's going
to be on the cover of Wheaties again.

[SisterNightroad]

Why?
Transgenders should be addressed with the pronoun belonging to the gender achieved after their partial or total "transformation". So if Caitlyn likes women she is in fact a lesbian.
As for the Wheaties cover (which I had to Google-search), probably she's still a very athletic person so she could be on it again. For example Erika Ervin (she played Amazon Eve on American Horror Story: Freak Show) is a fitness trainer and appeared on several magazine covers.

[chriskisn]

Unfortunately as is the problem with the Jenner/Kardashian lot everything has been played out in the media. While Caitlyn has done wonders for bringing transgender issues to the attention of millions, sadly she is also not necessarily doing all the publicity for purely selfless reasons. It is all about money and fame and keeping themselves in the limelight.

Sad really because a lot of good comes from it but everything is just a bit tacky and I'm not talking about the actual gender transformation.

Someone off of the topic, An interesting comment someone made on Facebook the other day in relation to an article saying a particular person was openly gay. The comment said "Funny how I've never heard of someone referred to as openly straight". :laugh:

[FuzzyPlum]

Someone off of the topic, An interesting comment someone made on Facebook the other day in relation to an article saying a particular person was openly gay. The comment said "Funny how I've never heard of someone referred to as openly straight". :laugh:

I don't get it.
People don't need to out themselves as openly straight. Straight people do not face discrimination and prejudice for their sexuality.
In contrast it is often a brave choice for a gay person to come out due religious and cultural reasons.

a silly comment really- was it meant to be deliberately ironic?

[becca]

It's true, straight people have never had to hide who they are. Or at least I've never heard of anyone straight having to, nor being attacked for being too straight looking or acting for that matter. I would like a world where people can be themselves and not be repressed or made to feel their truth is wrong because it's not true for somebody else.

A lot of the variety of trans is pretty confusing I think, it is to me; people have to work at understanding and the questions might seem really ignorant. It's generally a good idea to take people at their word about knowing their own mind however and respecting that. It's great that people can do something about it earlier and easier these days... Jenner is more old school in contrast? There are also people who feel mostly genderless too, kind of alienated or not really 'getting' it and I have known a few people like that. Maybe as I get older I'll prefer 'none of the above'? :o

[iamnotafraid]

Why?

1. Transgenders should be addressed with the pronoun belonging to the gender achieved after their partial or total "transformation".

2. So if Caitlyn likes women she is in fact a lesbian.


3. As for the Wheaties cover (which I had to Google-search), probably she's still a very athletic person so she could be on it again. .


1. No. He's still a he.

If we take it to an even further extreme. What do we say if a
persons "transformation" is to a goat? Would some call this
trans-species a Stevie Nicks?

2. That's a mind bender.

3. The Wheaties cover is probably not going to happen again.
Lucky Charms maybe, but not Wheaties.

[SisterNightroad]

Was that supposed to be funny?

[chriskisn]

I don't get it.
People don't need to out themselves as openly straight. Straight people do not face discrimination and prejudice for their sexuality.
In contrast it is often a brave choice for a gay person to come out due religious and cultural reasons.

a silly comment really- was it meant to be deliberately ironic?

It was a gay person who made the comment that I am quoting, I guess he was pointing out that a the particular article about a particular person instantly had to reference his sexuality, which in no way had anything to do with his ability to do the job (think the guy was a councillor or state politician or something).

[chriskisn]

1. No. He's still a he.

If we take it to an even further extreme. What do we say if a
persons "transformation" is to a goat? Would some call this
trans-species a Stevie Nicks?

2. That's a mind bender.

3. The Wheaties cover is probably not going to happen again.
Lucky Charms maybe, but not Wheaties.

Gender identity is way different to what is written on the birth certificate.

I know of a person who was born intersex and it was basically chosen by the parents and doctors as to what gender they would be assigned. They then grew up and found that they didn't identify with either gender, or rather identified with some parts of both genders. They are now happy to identify as both male and female.

You'd be surprised just how many people are born intersex or who don't identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth.

Physical characteristics don't necessarily define gender, we as a society like to put labels on people for the purposes of classification. Biological sex does not define gender identity, nor does it define sexual orientation.

Not sure if you are just trolling though :)

[becca]

I know of a person who was born intersex and it was basically chosen by the parents and doctors as to what gender they would be assigned.

The angriest person (and rightfully) I ever met was in that situation plus there had been surgery performed on them at an extremely young age. Their story just blew my mind, to imagine having actual people responsible for such anguish and pain... my admiration for him remains unsurpassed that he dealt with it as well as he did.

---

Um...

Goats? Seriously? There is a strange minority of people who seem to think up that animals and children are 'what's next'... and I really don't have a clue why. :distress:

[FuzzyPlum]

[QUOTE=becca;1169138]The angriest person (and rightfully) I ever met was in that situation plus there had been surgery performed on them at an extremely young age. Their story just blew my mind, to imagine having actual people responsible for such anguish and pain... my admiration for him remains unsurpassed that he dealt with it as well as he did.

QUOTE]

Regarding anger- the book 'The Wasp Factory' springs to mind.
Albeit that's a bit of a twisted story (but my memory is a bit cloudy as I read it nearly 20 years ago).

[iamnotafraid]

I know of a person who was born intersex and it was basically chosen by the parents and doctors as to what gender they would be assigned.

You'd be surprised just how many people are born intersex or who don't identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth.

Physical characteristics don't necessarily define gender...



(My first serious post in this thread)

I'm a Christian and as I've stated before I believe homosexuality is a sin.
I didn't state that to argue about it and wasn't going to mention it in this
thread. But what you mentioned above "a person born intersex" which
I guess would be a hermaphrodite, is perplexing to me.

I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be a parent and have to choose
in that type situation. One of my mom's friends had a child born like that.
As I don't know any personal details (nor would I post them if I did), they
chose (if they had a choice) to raise him as a male. On a sad note, he was
killed by a car accident.

Some things are black or white. On this type situation for the parents and
the children I really have no clue. Only God knows.

[SisterNightroad]

You know, the concepts of the sex genders don't exist in nature, they're human mind products.
Nature includes homosexuality and a lot of intermediate variations between the two extremes that we have addressed as "male" and "female" for all of the animal species.

[chriskisn]

You know, the concepts of the sex genders don't exist in nature, they're human mind products.
Nature includes homosexuality and a lot of intermediate variations between the two extremes that we have addressed as "male" and "female" for all of the animal species.

Yep and the problem is that if someone doesn't fit (especially intersex) then we have to try to make them fit into one of our classifications.

[chriskisn]

The angriest person (and rightfully) I ever met was in that situation plus there had been surgery performed on them at an extremely young age. Their story just blew my mind, to imagine having actual people responsible for such anguish and pain... my admiration for him remains unsurpassed that he dealt with it as well as he did.


This is a bit of information about the person I was talking about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Briffa

[SisterNightroad]

Yep and the problem is that if someone doesn't fit (especially intersex) then we have to try to make them fit into one of our classifications.
Yes, but that's understandable by a strictly evolutionist point of view because some of the most central intermediate positions between the sexes might be sterile and nature made us so that we don't find them attractive.
By the cultural side though, we should understand that since these are natural genetic variations then they aren't detrimental; in fact homosexuality might be positive for the evolution of the human species.
I think a lot of damage on this point of view has been done by the refusal to teach the theory of evolution. Gods, I live where the Pope lives and even here it hasn't been forbidden.