Why did Stevie have the abortion?

[twinmatrix]

Hey guys, I hope this isn't too sensitive of a subject to ask.

I read that Goodbye Baby / The Tower is possibly written about her abortion with Don, and that it's confirmed Sara is partially about the baby as well.

Do we know why she had the abortion? If I listen to Goodbye Baby it almost sounds like she was "forced" to do it (mentally or circumstance-wise).

[louielouie2000]

Stevie has said for decades that she chose not to have children for the sake of art/her career. She felt if she would have taken Fleetwood Mac offline for 2 years to have a child that the band would have split up. Conversely, she's also said many times that she feels it was her purpose to create art during her time here... not have children.

It's also worth noting her relationship with Henley, and others during that era, was pretty short lived and not that serious or stable. It's important to remember that both Stevie & Don were very much playing the field during that time period and were dating pretty much anyone & everyone. After all, Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles were at the height of their respective fame during the late 70s when Stevie & Don briefly dated. Both bands were either touring the world or recording in various studios constantly. They couldn't have seen much of each other to establish a solid relationship worthy of raising a child. Not to mention Don Henley is reported to be a massive jerk, especially towards women. It's no wonder Stevie didn't want to be a mother at that point- especially for him.

[olive]

because it was her right to choose

[gssmith]

because it was her right to choose

Yep. Besides kids suck. I'm good with kids, but for only a few hours. I couldn't have kids either. They turn into little assholes. Kids tend to be mean. Not their fault they are still learning social behavior. Then they grow up go be teens/young aldults. Nothing but heart ache and drama.
I don't think she felt like she could have been a responsible parent as a rock star. Also with all the drugs she was on, the kid would have come out retarded.

[KarmaContestant]

Stevie has talked about how there just wasn't time for anything else other than Fleetwood Mac. No time for a steady relationship, let alone a child. She was young, in her prime, partying, travelling, living the dream and seeing the world. Even though women every day manage to walk both sides of the line, Stevie didn't feel it was the right thing to do, *for her*, to bring a child into her crazy jet-fueled world of drugs, sex and rock and roll. From an outsider's point of view, it may seem a little bit selfish, but I honestly think it would have been a terrible thing if she'd had children in those days. Maybe it would have calmed her, maybe there would have been no Betty Ford, no Klonopin, no breakup of Fleetwood Mac after Tango - but maybe it would have been worse.

This brings me to Hard Advice from 24 Karat Gold. There has been some discussion on who the lyrics are about, other than Tom Petty filling the role of the 'best friend'. To me, the lyrics are not about a person, but about a life lived; about overcoming all the grief and regret and pain from *all* the choices she made and the failures she had experienced. It was 1995, before The Dance, and her life was in a slump despite coming out of Klonopin detox. She had to face, finally, all the hard memories and pain she had been covering up with drugs and escapism; after all those years of self-medicating with cocaine and then Klonopin, the reality of her choices was there in the daylight, plain to see. She was sober, finally, really for the first time since the mid-70's, and it was time to get over all of her past mistakes and decisions that led her to where she was at that moment. There was no husband, there was no Lindsey, there was no child, there was no Fleetwood Mac - there wasn't even a public interest in her career. Street Angel was a flop. No more medicating, no more hiding. It's time to get over it - this pain's gone on too long. Don't buy that doll. Come in out of the darkness, for real this time. And until you do, you're going nowhere.

And she did! :nod:

[Jondalar]

She did the right thing. She wouldn't have time to raise it. The world doesn't need another screwed up unhappy soul walking around contemplating suicide. If she did have a kid back then it probably wouldn't of come out right because of the drugs and booze.

[studyinscarlet]

Hey guys, I hope this isn't too sensitive of a subject to ask.

I read that Goodbye Baby / The Tower is possibly written about her abortion with Don, and that it's confirmed Sara is partially about the baby as well.

Do we know why she had the abortion? If I listen to Goodbye Baby it almost sounds like she was "forced" to do it (mentally or circumstance-wise).

Henley didn't want it. She talked to him and she said he didn't give one hint about actually keeping the baby. So, jet booty calls and then abort the kid. I wonder what decisions she would have made if it weren't for the drugs. You get high, eff around and things happen. Too bad she didn't have the baby. I think using the reasoning that she has said, such as the kid would have been messed up growing up doesn't work. Her mother, I'm sure, would have agreed that having a messed up kid is no reason to not have it. She had one and Stevie came out of it. I feel sorry for Stevie, but it takes two to tango. And I'm sorry she chose to kill the baby. I think she must have regrets about that deep down. Life with drugs is no life.

Ps. I'm very pro-life. I love Stevie.

[PenguinHead]

It just wasn't meant to be. I can't see Stevie in a mother role.

It's interesting to note that the two women in Fleetwood Mac never had children, yet Lindsey, John and Mick are fathers. Not the odds one would typically expect!

Does Beka have kids?

[bombaysaffires]

Men with high-powered careers have children because-- historically anyway-- it's been much easier for them than women with high-powered careers. No one expected a man to actually give up his career just because he fathered a kid. No one actually expected a man to be responsible for the primary raising of the kid (and don't let's start a flame war on this, I'm talking overall in our culture. I'm aware there were exceptions, and more so today). If a man was gone for months on end for his work (whatever it was) well that was "what men had to do" to support a family. Rules were different for women. There's a saying that if a kid has, let's say, 6 school functions in the year-- plays, recitals, whatever-- and a dad made it to 2 or 3 of those he got praised for making any of them. If a mom went to 5 out of 6, everyone would focus on how she missed the one event and what a selfish mother she was. It's just how it went, and in some places, still goes.

So if Stevie or Chris had a kid, there wouldn't be a lot of support structure……wives were expected to stay home and raise the kids and support their husband's career and not complain. It was very uncommon for a man to take care of all the domestic stuff so his wife could further her career. There weren't "mr. moms" and it was considered emasculating. If you look at most of the famous women in music, including the greats in country music, you see that most of them either didn't have kids, had cheating philandering husbands and several divorces, or had really messed up kids that were raised by other people-- nannies, grandparents, whatever. Women were criticized for not raising their kids right but then managers and promoters and whoever were not so sympathetic to making schedules and things work around families. And husbands weren't raised to think in terms of sharing the load equally. So there wasn't a lot of support for having kids.

Nowadays you have performers like Gwen Stefani or Fergie or Faith Hill or Beyonce or whoever who actually take a break in their careers to have kids and then come back and the public is ok with that. Stevie was always worried that taking time off would hurt her career and she is hugely career driven.

So, even though I think she didn't really truly want the reality of kids, just like she really truly doesn't want to deal with the reality and compromises of marriage or a heavy monogamous relationship [although she really likes the idea of both]…even if she *had* wanted kids, the business and the culture was stacked against her being able to do both kids and career.

[Jondalar]

just out of curiosity

Would y'all be this supportive if you had a neighbor /co-worker / friend who was a drug addict knowing had sex with someone else's husband and used abortion as a form of birth control ?

Yes I would be happy she never had children and I'm sure her unborn children are happy they never had to come into consciousness in that environment. What a life of hell.

[michelej1]

Yes I would be happy she never had children and I'm sure her unborn children are happy they never had to come into consciousness in that environment. What a life of hell.

Please. I doubt Stevie's children would have had a "life of hell." If anything they might have been raised by a nanny and a little neglected by their mom, but I don't think life would be miserable for them.

Michele

[Macfan4life]

I highly doubt the song Goodbye Baby is a literal translation as to an abortion. Stevie would never write so bluntly. Its a song about an end of a relationship. The song sara was about the abortion. There is an interview she did in 1991 where she admitted if she had the baby and it was a girl, her name would be sara. The spooky part of Sara live was the added phrase "and then a heartbeat and you never really die." The context of those lyrics are pretty shocking. I know today she says Sara is about Mick and he definitely was part of it.

[olive]

[QUOTE=SisterNightroad;1156394]I don't think you should say that she used abortion as form of birth control, because it isn't a contraceptive method and defining it as such is misleading and has a negative influence./QUOTE]
Didn't she have four?

[StreetAngel86]

I don't think you should say that she used abortion as form of birth control, because it isn't a contraceptive method and defining it as such is misleading and has a negative influence.
Beside that, you don't know what kind of birth control method she used, maybe as the majority of people she used the natural method but it didn't work like many times happens. This was especially true for the seventies before the spreading of AIDS.

agree.
but i dont get why y'all are even assuming she used ANY form of birth control in the first place. this was the 70s ... and prob early 80s ... and girls and boys, there was a lot o drugs going around in both bands. i hardly think after excessive coke and alco consumption any form of birth control is going to be a priority :eek:

[gypsyhelena]

The only person who has full knowledge of all the reasons behind Stevie's decisions regarding her abortion(s?) is Stevie herself, and that's okay. Her body, her choice (which I'm sure was a difficult choice for her to make).

[Jondalar]

Please. I doubt Stevie's children would have had a "life of hell." If anything they might have been raised by a nanny and a little neglected by their mom, but I don't think life would be miserable for them.

Michele

They could have fetal alcohol syndrome or brain damage from drugs...

[nicole21290]

I highly doubt the song Goodbye Baby is a literal translation as to an abortion. Stevie would never write so bluntly. Its a song about an end of a relationship. The song sara was about the abortion. There is an interview she did in 1991 where she admitted if she had the baby and it was a girl, her name would be sara. The spooky part of Sara live was the added phrase "and then a heartbeat and you never really die." The context of those lyrics are pretty shocking. I know today she says Sara is about Mick and he definitely was part of it.

So far as Goodbye Baby goes? I don't even think it has to necessarily about Henley's child, though I can see why people might assume that. I think it IS a song about the loss of a baby, though.

Q: Were there any emotional moments from the band like where Lindsey said that it almost made him want to cry that made the band emotional watching playbacks?
A: there were many emotional moments between the band members. obviously the scene were (sic) Lindsey sheds a tear or two talking to Stevie about how much this project means to him. one of the more emotional moments made it to film and that was when Stevie and Lindsey recorded “Goodbye Baby”. That was shot very quietly late at night and due to the subject matter, was a very private and personal moment between those two.

Some more comments, both about Henley, that child, children in general, that may be of interest here...

Don Henley said this in August 1991 in GQ:

Henley’s prodigious romantic escapades would include an affair with Stevie Nicks, who “I believe to the best of my knowledge became pregnant by me. And she named the [unborn] kid Sara, and she had an abortion and then wrote the song of the same name to the spirit of the aborted baby. I was building my house at the time, and there’s a line in the song that says ‘And when you build your house, call me.’”

In February 1992, a British music magazine called Vox published an interview with Stevie where the article says this:

But now there is remorse at the havoc her abortions have wreaked on her psyche. “To give up four babies is to give up a lot that would be here now. So that bothers me, a lot, and really breaks my heart. But they’re gone, so…” She composes herself. “But I couldn’t have because I was too busy. And I had all these commitments.” She wants to adopt, but age and single-parenthood are against her. “I’ve also thought about having one myself but I’m booked up for the next four years. I don’t know if, at my age, I can get pregnant right away, do an album at the same time, have a baby, promote an album, go out on tour with the baby. So I’m going back and forth in my mind. At 43 years old, my time clock is ticking, so I can’t afford to wait around for very long.” Surely these are the same excuses she made on the last four occasions — with two important differences. There is no obvious candidate for the father, and even if there were, the decision totally remains in her hands.

This is what Stevie said to Mary Turner about Don in her Off the Record interview in 1994 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=van9uyR9ksc). Mary asks her whether she would consider writing an autobiography one day and Stevie replies:

The real scoop is in my head. And the real scoop is written in very coded poetry and journal entries and - y’know, over the last - since 1975. And some of the things - I mean, like - Don Henley. I can’t - I - he blew it on the fact that I, that I had an abortion. He told a big magazine that. So it’s like ‘Well, I guess I could write my story about me and Don now, because Don accidentally let the whole cat out of the bag to, like, Vanity Fair or something. So there are things that I could write about, y’know, but there are a lot of things that I couldn’t. See, I would never have told that. I would never have told the world that. You know, ninety-two phone calls from Don and a hundred apologies later, but the fact is that, y’know - well, now that story’s out now. But the story behind it isn’t written. What really happened isn’t written. So that’s the story that everybody has to wait for.

Stevie has contradicted herself on the issue of kids. She’s even done it within the same interview and she’s aware of that contradiction. Take that famous ‘I didn’t come here to be a mother’ spiel from the 1983 innerview. Minutes earlier she’d just exactly this:

"I think I probably write down the conflict of ‘Oh, yes, I do want to be in love’ and ‘Yes, I do want to be a loving, loving person’ and ‘Yes, I do want to be, you know, the mother of many children’ but at the same time there is part of me that says that I’m also Lillian Hellman and I want to write the great novel of all time. And I want to go on the beach with my silent typewriter"

The very stringent ‘I CHOSE ART OVER CHILDREN/MARRIAGE’ became quite a bit more prevalent from the mid-nineties onwards, I feel. I mean, she said this at one point:

"I definitely want to have a baby in the next four years. For sure. I want to have one or two children and I don’t want to wait any further than say 34." (She’s 29 now). By that time, Stevie hopes to be living in a pretty little house somewhere up in the mountains with her man, a piano and tape recorder.

And this came even later - the adoption thing was talked about a number of times:

”I don’t regret the rest of it at all, but I do regret the fact that I didn’t stop to have a baby,” says Nicks of her 15 years of rock- and-roll adventure. ”I’m going to try to adopt a little girl in January when I’ll have more time (she’s presently on tour promoting Fleetwood Mac’s current Behind the Mask album). I’m certainly ready for it, and I’m good with children. And then I just may have one myself after that, if the right man walks into my life.” Nicks, who has been once married and divorced, wants a girl. ”I think I’ll probably call her Lillian Rebecca,” she says. ”She’ll be loved, and she’ll be the most important thing in my life — more than music, Fleetwood Mac, solo albums or anything else.”

Mick said this publicly in 1990:

"Stevie has a very successful career of her own, and she wanted to devote more time to it. And she wants to adopt a child and slow her life down."

One last thing. Though I’m sure she is mostly at peace and enjoys the freedom she has, she does display a quite unusual (?) possessiveness towards Lindsey’s children in what she’s said about them in the past (‘I feel like she’s mine also’, ‘I insist on being part of her life’, ‘I get them too’), and discussing him WITH his children led to her the ‘Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake’ self-recrimination/regret, something you don’t hear very often with her. Every single time she talks about her and Lindsey’s alternate universe potential OTHER life (ie. if they’d stayed in San Francisco) it’s ALWAYS: marriage, kids, and music. Every time.

"We’re still able to make music together. So apart from being married and having our own family, what more could Lindsey and I have asked for?"

Maybe the kind of fame and career she envisioned for herself (or even that she has) don’t always seem compatible with her own family in her own mind, but I think a lot of the time she pushes the ‘NO PARTNER OR KIDS - I AM AN ARTIST!’ it is ridiculous. She knows they’re not mutually exclusive and got very cross when Sheryl decided to tell Oprah that that’s pretty much what Stevie had told her.

"She also did tell me not to have babies cos you’ll never write a great song again."

"I DID NOT! I DID NOT!!!"

"You did say I’d write a lot less songs."

"I did NOT say thaaat! Sheryl Crow. You’re grounded."

Stevie was sooo indignant, bless her. The big I CHOSE TO DO ART OVER MARRIAGE/CHILDREN spiel became a lot stronger from the mid-nineties onwards and sometimes when she does it, I just have to roll my eyes. Roll my eyes ALONG with her, actually. Look at the primary regret, the first thing it took away, and the almost afterthought of music. And the ‘blah blah blah’? Check that tone. Some of her spiel doesn't work for me, in light of everything.

"And I have no regrets in my life. Except one. And that’s that eight years. Because during that eight years, as much as I say to people, you know, ‘I have chosen not to have a boyfriend, I chose not to have kids, I’ve chosen to follow my muse and be an artist’ and all that blah, blah, blah, but during that eight years which was late 30s to like 45 who knows what could’ve happened during that eight years. I might’ve met someone. I might’ve even had a baby. So I will go to my grave angry at that man for that because he took 8 years of the prime of my life away. I could’ve done 2 or 3 more Fleetwood Mac records. I could’ve maybe done 2 or 3 more solo records. Think of the music that could’ve been made during those eight years.”

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/happen_zpsbtyvqo38.gif (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/nicolebarker1990/media/happen_zpsbtyvqo38.gif.html)

[twinmatrix]

^

Thank you for the big post, very interesting read!

I do wonder why people blame the coke and alcohol for her past slutty behavior.

In my drug phase coke never made me horny, nor do I know anyone else on which it had this effect. Ever. It just made me want to talk a lot, followed by fits of anger and anxiety when the effect wore off. If anything, from experience coke is an anti-sex drug. You take it and lose any desire for fornicating. You just feel giddy, happy and energetic and you want to talk and smile and dance around.

If anything, mephedrone, mdma, speed, ecstasy, etc. are drugs that make you want to have sex, especially in combination with alcohol. But I don't even know if those were circulating at the time. And even then it's completely circumstantial. If you're not already in a "horny" mood, it can make you want to just lie down and fall asleep.

I'm kinda surprised to hear how slutty Stevie was back in the day. I'm glad she's a better person now. I'm not a fan of the old drug abusing Stevie, but I love the wise modern Stevie. She's an inspiration.

[Jondalar]

^

Thank you for the big post, very interesting read!

I do wonder why people blame the coke and alcohol for her past slutty behavior.

In my drug phase coke never made me horny, nor do I know anyone else on which it had this effect. Ever. It just made me want to talk a lot, followed by fits of anger and anxiety when the effect wore off. If anything, from experience coke is an anti-sex drug. You take it and lose any desire for fornicating. You just feel giddy, happy and energetic and you want to talk and smile and dance around.

If anything, mephedrone, mdma, speed, ecstasy, etc. are drugs that make you want to have sex, especially in combination with alcohol. But I don't even know if those were circulating at the time. And even then it's completely circumstantial. If you're not already in a "horny" mood, it can make you want to just lie down and fall asleep.

I'm kinda surprised to hear how slutty Stevie was back in the day. I'm glad she's a better person now. I'm not a fan of the old drug abusing Stevie, but I love the wise modern Stevie. She's an inspiration.

Nobody talks about Don Henley or Mick being sluts... Sure they slept with more people.

[SisterNightroad]

^

Thank you for the big post, very interesting read!

I do wonder why people blame the coke and alcohol for her past slutty behavior.

In my drug phase coke never made me horny, nor do I know anyone else on which it had this effect. Ever. It just made me want to talk a lot, followed by fits of anger and anxiety when the effect wore off. If anything, from experience coke is an anti-sex drug. You take it and lose any desire for fornicating. You just feel giddy, happy and energetic and you want to talk and smile and dance around.

If anything, mephedrone, mdma, speed, ecstasy, etc. are drugs that make you want to have sex, especially in combination with alcohol. But I don't even know if those were circulating at the time. And even then it's completely circumstantial. If you're not already in a "horny" mood, it can make you want to just lie down and fall asleep.

I'm kinda surprised to hear how slutty Stevie was back in the day. I'm glad she's a better person now. I'm not a fan of the old drug abusing Stevie, but I love the wise modern Stevie. She's an inspiration.
I don't think it's our business how Stevie behaved back in her day.
Besides that, a lot of other rockstars, Mick included, weren't certainly saints but nobody complains about Robert Plant, Gene Simmons, Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler's number of partners.
Even other rockstar women like Grace Slick, Debbie Harry or Joann Jett were notoriously having sex with lot of partners but nobody ever questioned it, I wonder why Stevie's sex life gets to be inspected.

By the way drugs doesn't have the same effects on everyone, coke is a stimulating substance, it's strange that it didn't have exciting effect on you. I know of someone in rehabilitation that claims that coke made her make out with an intimate friend's fiancee and she didn't even like him.

Have you ever considered that Stevie wasn't "Horny" or "Slutty" but just wanted to have sex with men that she actually liked?
If a young Don Henley wanted to have sex with me I'd offer him even my ears' hole.

[bombaysaffires]

I have to respectfully disagree with you Nicole...:sorry:

I don't think the reason recording Goodbye Baby was so intimate and personal between Stevie and Lindsey was because it was about a baby at all….I think it's about her leaving him and all that baggage around that. I think doing that song together was part of getting some sort of closure finally around all that-- almost like her apologizing a little and acknowledging how much she'd hurt him even though she needed to go.

Someone posted once how the lines about 'don't take me to the tower/and take my child away' are reference to a story (like Rhiannon or Wide Sargasso Sea are inspired by actual stories she read)….but now I forget which story. :shrug:

[twinmatrix]

I don't think it's our business how Stevie behaved back in her day.
Besides that, a lot of other rockstars, Mick included, weren't certainly saints but nobody complains about Robert Plant, Gene Simmons, Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler's number of partners.
Even other rockstar women like Grace Slick, Debbie Harry or Joann Jett were notoriously having sex with lot of partners but nobody ever questioned it, I wonder why Stevie's sex life gets to be inspected.

By the way drugs doesn't have the same effects on everyone, coke is a stimulating substance, it's strange that it didn't have exciting effect on you. I know of someone in rehabilitation that claims that coke made her make out with an intimate friend's fiancee and she didn't even like him.

Have you ever considered that Stevie wasn't "Horny" or "Slutty" but just wanted to have sex with men that she actually liked?
If a young Don Henley wanted to have sex with me I'd offer him even my ears' hole.

Hehe, I know drugs have different effects on people. I know a lot of people who love weed, for me, it just makes me sick and throw up. But I've never heard of anyone ever saying that coke has a physically stimulating effect on them (in a sexual way). Interesting to hear about your friend. At least when I lived in London, it's not even considered a party drug, and my ex house mate was close friends with a dealer so I saw a lot of high strangers coming in and out of my apartment lol.

Anyhow, I don't even know half of these people. I'm really not into rock n roll scene, I just love Stevie. Well, post-Klonopin. She's an amazing, emotionally intellectual person now.

Have you ever considered that Stevie wasn't "Horny" or "Slutty" but just wanted to have sex with men that she actually liked?

That's pretty much the definition of being horny, lol. And of course it was also with married people, hence the "slutty" term, but I digress... I'm not being judgmental, I used to be like that myself, but I do think it's funny people use "alcohol and drugs" as an excuse in that context for sleeping around. Cocaine rarely works as a sexually motivating drug. It's a personal choice to sleep around so much. Only if, say, the person was addicted to mephedrone, then yeah you can blame the drug almost entirely for the behavior.

Also your ear hole? Sounds respectful towards your body, hahaha.

[SisterNightroad]

Hehe, I know drugs have different effects on people. I know a lot of people who love weed, for me, it just makes me sick and throw up. But I've never heard of anyone ever saying that coke has a physically stimulating effect on them (in a sexual way). Interesting to hear about your friend. At least when I lived in London, it's not even considered a party drug, and my ex house mate was close friends with a dealer so I saw a lot of high strangers coming in and out of my apartment lol.

Anyhow, I don't even know half of these people. I'm really not into rock n roll scene, I just love Stevie. Well, post-Klonopin. She's an amazing, emotionally intellectual person now.



That's pretty much the definition of being horny, lol. And of course it was also with married people, hence the "slutty" term, but I digress... I'm not being judgmental, I used to be like that myself, but I do think it's funny people use "alcohol and drugs" as an excuse in that context for sleeping around. Cocaine rarely works as a sexually motivating drug. It's a personal choice to sleep around so much. Only if, say, the person was addicted to mephedrone, then yeah you can blame the drug almost entirely for the behavior.

Also your ear hole? Sounds respectful towards your body, hahaha.

I didn't say it was a friend, I'm a psychology student so I get to have contact with people with psychologic issues.
You have to understand that addicted people have a personality that's inclined to having dependences, in fact an addiction is above all psychological, not just physical, that's also why not all people that abuse drugs develope a drug addiction and the majority of people with addiction issues have more of an addiction altogether.
So it's not like Stevie was slutty and an always horny-monster before klonopin and now that she's redeemed herself she's magically become "an emotionally intellectual person", she's always been all these things. Probably if she wasn't these things, she wouldn't have so many lovers, she wouldn't have been a drug addicted and wouldn't have written such beautiful songs and you wouldn't have loved her.

It's certainly true that sleeping around it's a personal choice, but it's true that drugs lead to impulsive behaviours people that already have a tendency to do impulsive things. You are being judgemental because you are presuming a lot of things, like that people excuse distructive behaviour with drugs, that Stevie always wanted to have sex like a horny-monster, that the married men with whom she's had sex aren't to blame and that she magically changed from a person tipe to another.

The "ear hole" was a joke, but it still would be respectful to my body if it's a mutual decision.

[SpyNote]

I wonder if Stevie started using birth control after this experience.

I also wonder if it was more than coincidence that "Sleeping Angel" was played during the abortion scene of Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

[twinmatrix]

I didn't say it was a friend, I'm a psychology student so I get to have contact with people with psychologic issues.
You have to understand that addicted people have a personality that's inclined to having dependences, in fact an addiction is above all psychological, not just physical, that's also why not all people that abuse drugs develope a drug addiction and the majority of people with addiction issues have more of an addiction altogether.
So it's not like Stevie was slutty and an always horny-monster before klonopin and now that she's redeemed herself she's magically become "an emotionally intellectual person", she's always been all these things. Probably if she wasn't these things, she wouldn't have so many lovers, she wouldn't have been a drug addicted and wouldn't have written such beautiful songs and you wouldn't have loved her.

It's certainly true that sleeping around it's a personal choice, but it's true that drugs lead to impulsive behaviours people that already have a tendency to do impulsive things. You are being judgemental because you are presuming a lot of things, like that people excuse distructive behaviour with drugs, that Stevie wanting to have sex equals to her having sex straight away, and that the married men with whom she's had sex aren't to blame.


The "ear hole" was a joke, but it still would be respectful to my body if it's a mutual decision.

I see your point but I can now only imagine a penis in your ear. :laugh:

[SisterNightroad]

I see your point but I can now only imagine a penis in your ear. :laugh:
I know, I heard this joke from one of those comedies full of naughty jokes and I never forgot it.
By the way, how can you imagine my ear if you never saw it?

[SisterNightroad]

I wonder if Stevie started using birth control after this experience.

I also wonder if it was more than coincidence that "Sleeping Angel" was played during the abortion scene of Fast Times at Ridgemont High.


I don't remember that scene, but the writer (Cameron Crowe) is also a famous rock journalist that interviewed at least two times in person Fleetwood Mac for Rolling Stone.
He's become a successful director, he directed "Say anything...", "Jerry Maguire" and "Almost famous"

[PenguinHead]

I wonder if Stevie started using birth control after this experience.

I also wonder if it was more than coincidence that "Sleeping Angel" was played during the abortion scene of Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

You have to be kidding!

[teedeerocks]

I didn't say it was a friend, I'm a psychology student so I get to have contact with people with psychologic issues.
You have to understand that addicted people have a personality that's inclined to having dependences, in fact an addiction is above all psychological, not just physical, that's also why not all people that abuse drugs develope a drug addiction and the majority of people with addiction issues have more of an addiction altogether.
So it's not like Stevie was slutty and an always horny-monster before klonopin and now that she's redeemed herself she's magically become "an emotionally intellectual person", she's always been all these things. Probably if she wasn't these things, she wouldn't have so many lovers, she wouldn't have been a drug addicted and wouldn't have written such beautiful songs and you wouldn't have loved her.

It's certainly true that sleeping around it's a personal choice, but it's true that drugs lead to impulsive behaviours people that already have a tendency to do impulsive things. You are being judgemental because you are presuming a lot of things, like that people excuse distructive behaviour with drugs, that Stevie always wanted to have sex like a horny-monster, that the married men with whom she's had sex aren't to blame and that she magically changed from a person tipe to another.

The "ear hole" was a joke, but it still would be respectful to my body if it's a mutual decision.

Are you saying that Stevie has and always has had an addictive personality regardless of how it manifests itself? If so,I totally agree.Addicts are all or nothing.They don't just like things,they loovvvveee them and can't get enough.I heard her say in an interview that her grandfather was an alcoholic and everyone in her family loves to gamble except her "so they can't say anything about what I do".I think genetics play a huge part in Stevie's makeup(as it does in everyone elses too).She blames her doctor for the Klonopin problem but I think it was just a substitution for the other addiction(coke).We all know Stevie loves to play the "blame - game"-nothing is ever really her fault.I've never heard her say "aw man I effed it all up".But she has no problem telling the world how someone else effed it up.This is just my opinion,of course.

[SisterNightroad]

Are you saying that Stevie has and always has had an addictive personality regardless of how it manifests itself? If so,I totally agree.Addicts are all or nothing.They don't just like things,they loovvvveee them and can't get enough.

Yes, that's a simpler way to put it.
But I'd like to point out that it's a universal human disposition trait, not just an addictive people's trait and it's just more susceptible in them.

I heard her say in an interview that her grandfather was an alcoholic and everyone in her family loves to gamble except her "so they can't say anything about what I do".I think genetics play a huge part in Stevie's makeup (as it does in everyone elses too).

Genetics has certainly its weight, but the importance of the family surroundings during the development is certainly more important.
Usually a genetic psychological trait show itself only if it meets the right environment that make it "bloom" (for example a needy baby with anxious parents).

She blames her doctor for the Klonopin problem but I think it was just a substitution for the other addiction(coke).We all know Stevie loves to play the "blame - game"-nothing is ever really her fault.I've never heard her say "aw man I effed it all up".But she has no problem telling the world how someone else effed it up.This is just my opinion,of course.

Yes, Stevie like anyone, especially famous people, doesn't like publicly admitting her faults but I think in the last years she's been much more objiective about herself.
Beside that, I truly think that her experience with the psychiatrist could really have been a case incompetence or even a scam because in the USA Psychiatry have the habit to rely too much upon prescriptions and doesn't take enough care about the true colloquial therapy, so psychiatrists overuse medications even when aren't recommended.
In case you don't know, prescriptions are even more damaging than drugs or alchool and are far more addictive, would you recommend giving them to a person with addiction issues that doesn't even have someone to look after her life habits?

[SisterNightroad]

The original poster merely asked what we thought was going on in Stevie's life at the time which would cause her to take the course of action she did.

You're right, I take the chance to go back to the original question and point out this blog: http://366daysofsara.tumblr.com/
that talks about the surroundings of the making of the song, as well the abortion, and uses excerpts of interviews and live performances of the songs and other lovely things.

Among other things the author gathers all the collected informations available of the song and attempts an interpretation in a 7 pages paraphrase that starts here: http://366daysofsara.tumblr.com/post/39290985926/sara-interpretation-part-1-of-7-lyric-from

[DashingDan]

I've seen two women (one I know well), with my own eyes, respond VERY strongly to hearing Goodbye Baby for the first time; they both heard very powerful stuff in that song.

I've always wondered who pushed for it to be the song that closed many (if not all) the SYW shows.

[louielouie2000]

(Oh my...does anyone want to talk about music again? ;)

Yep. Let's bring the discussion back to the music/Stevie's career impact/etc instead of dissertations on our feelings regarding this hot button social issue. Political/Religious/Social discussions and debates of a civilized manner are most certainly welcome on the Ledge, but need to be contained to the Chit Chat section:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/forumdisplay.php?f=9

[ThePenguin]

Do not continue to post views about the morality of abortion in this thread.

The abortion debate has been moved to Chit Chat. Jondalar and Featherblade, take your bickering there.

If you want to talk about the subject of abortion as it relates to Stevie's songs, interviews or career that would be on topic. Otherwise, don't discuss abortion here any further.

[secret love]

Do not continue to post views about the morality of abortion in this thread.

The abortion debate has been moved to Chit Chat. Jondalar and Featherblade, take your bickering there.

If you want to talk about the subject of abortion as it relates to Stevie's songs, interviews or career that would be on topic. Otherwise, don't discuss abortion here any further.

Goodbye Baby (The Tower) is possibly about an abortion Stevie had.

Beautiful Child has been revealed to be about a love affair with the Beatles road tour manager that Stevie had in the late seventies while he was still married.

I love Touched by an Angel...which is about death, but of an HIV/AIDS positive friend of Stevie's, not of her babies.

I think Stevie would make a great mother, instead she gets to be, like former Prime Minister of Australia Julia Gillard - the most meddlesome (great) aunt ever.

[louielouie2000]

I love Touched by an Angel...which is about death, but of an HIV/AIDS positive friend of Stevie's, not of her babies.

I thought I Miss You from Trouble In Shangri La was about the death of her friend with AIDS?

I've always assumed Touched By An Angel was about the Dance reunion, and Christine's impending departure, specifically- but I could be totally wrong.

[secret love]

I thought I Miss You from Trouble In Shangri La was about the death of her friend with AIDS?

I've always assumed Touched By An Angel was about the Dance reunion, and Christine's impending departure, specifically- but I could be totally wrong.

You could be right as I'm just going off what I read in the description attached to the audio visual on YouTube for Touched by an Angel.

To me anyway, it has always been a song about death and the light at the end of the tunnel, that's just it's personal meaning for me.

I had a very close call car accident on March 2, 2014. I was driving down from the Blue Mountains towards Richmond and coming out of a corner, changed from third gear to fourth gear, speeding up a little too much, the applying the brake, hard as I changed back to third gear.

As I slammed on the break, my Ford Festiva which had no A.B.S. braking system nor power steering - it skidded onto the right side of the road - the lane for cars going the opposite direction. Instead of backing off the brake and continue to slow down using engine braking instead, I fully applied the brake and the clutch. I think although I'm not sure, that I also pulled up the handbrake. My car came off the road, rolled/flipped once and careened into two large tree trunks.

In the moment before impact, I felt that I was surely going to die. Very quickly an acceptance of death rushed over me as the car flipped and I hit my head on the car's ceiling. The adrenaline started flowing and felt extremely pleasant, like a natural high. I had decided this was it, this was my death and I felt completely fine with it.

Of course, I came to after hitting the trees that stopped me and my car from continuing to roll down the hill and ultimately saved me from an early grave.

Touched by an Angel always reminds me of that fleeting moment in which I accepted my own mortality, how serene I felt, how calm and how physically pleasurable the sensation of that blood rush and that adrenaline flowing, was.

[Johnny Stew]

Stevie commenting on "Touched By An Angel," from NicksFix (http://rockalittle.com/touchedbyanangel.htm):

"On the 4th day of compassion I was impressed to write a poem about aids and about the angel that I do believe in my heart is there for us! I call her the 'passageway angel'. The next night I typed it up from my notes, and added the last verse.

And walking through the
Room together
In suspended animation
No one saw us go
No one said goodbye
And from my heart
I leave behind
Great expectations

And that you find the answers
To your questions
And that life will once more
Be a celebration
And that you
Will be touched
By an angel

This song holds a very special place in my heart. I hope you enjoy it!"

[michelej1]

RH Reality Check, January 5, 2015

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/01/05/nicki-minaj-inevitable-politicization-celebrity-abortions/

[from an article about Nicki Minaj]

Back in September, Stevie Nicks got a similarly aggressive response to her own abortion story. The anti-choice website LifeNews tried to argue that her song “Sara” was about regretting her abortion, even though, in the very Billboard interview LifeNews quoted, Nicks said the song was just as much about a woman named Sara, who seems to have been her romantic rival. (Her boyfriend at the time, Don Henley, married Sara very shortly after the abortion.) Still, much of the conservative media joined in, talking about the “child” Nicks aborted. In fact, it appears as though Nicks was mostly upset because Henley readily agreed to the abortion, when she seems to have wished he had shown some interest in having a baby—and probably settling down—with her.

[Feather Blade]

RH Reality Check, January 5, 2015

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/01/05/nicki-minaj-inevitable-politicization-celebrity-abortions/

[from an article about Nicki Minaj]

Back in September, Stevie Nicks got a similarly aggressive response to her own abortion story. The anti-choice website LifeNews tried to argue that her song “Sara” was about regretting her abortion, even though, in the very Billboard interview LifeNews quoted, Nicks said the song was just as much about a woman named Sara, who seems to have been her romantic rival. (Her boyfriend at the time, Don Henley, married Sara very shortly after the abortion.) Still, much of the conservative media joined in, talking about the “child” Nicks aborted. In fact, it appears as though Nicks was mostly upset because Henley readily agreed to the abortion, when she seems to have wished he had shown some interest in having a baby—and probably settling down—with her.

Didn't Don Henley allude to having found out about it after the fact? (Esquire interview maybe?) Also, Mick might be surprised to find out that his wife was married to Don at the same time. ;)

[twinmatrix]

So wait, which song is about HIV/AIDS?

I thought I Miss You was about traveling and not being with the one you love because of work or whatever is causing the distance.

[michelej1]

Didn't Don Henley allude to having found out about it after the fact? (Esquire interview maybe?) Also, Mick might be surprised to find out that his wife was married to Don at the same time. ;)

Hey, Mick proposed to Sara when she was in the middle of sleeping with another guy, so he might be okay with that revelation about her marriage to Don :lol: .

Michele

[lovethemac1]

Hey, Mick proposed to Sara when she was in the middle of sleeping with another guy, so he might be okay with that revelation about her marriage to Don :lol: .

Michele

Sara was married to Don Henley?

[michelej1]

Sara was married to Don Henley?

No, we were teasing about the inaccuracy in that article.

Michele

[PenguinHead]

It's unfortunate this thread began. But I'm guilty of perpetuating it by responding to it. It should have been aborted long ago.

[Jondalar]

It's unfortunate this thread began. But I'm guilty of perpetuating it by responding to it. It should have been aborted long ago.

This thread was started to cause contraversy in my opinion.

[twinmatrix]

This thread was started to cause contraversy in my opinion.

Are you serious lol