Silver Springs/Timespace

[Tusky]

Hi! :sorry: if this has been asked before but just wondering where you guys think Silver Springs would have sat on the tracklist of Timespace if Mick had allowed it on there? :shrug:

[SisterNightroad]

I've read an early 90's interview that Stevie did clearly ask Mick Silver Springs' rights for using it on her timespace album but Micks forbade her because it could have still been use it on a Fleetwood Mac album.
I think it would have been a good song on Timespace, but in retrospect I think it's much more fit on the dance

[sorcerer999]

I don't think it would have been a good fit on "Timespace". At that time, (1991...or was it 1992?) her solo hits and the two new tracks were just so "80's" oriented in their sound. "Silver Springs" really has that signature 70's Fleetwood Mac sound, and would have sounded out of place.

I think it sounds great on "Crystal Visions" though, because it included more singles from the 90's and 2000's, as well as live cuts and the Deep Dish remix. So "Silver Springs" sits well on that one since there's no predominant "sound" or "era" like "Timespace" in my opinion.

In retrospect, I'm glad Mick didn't let her have it. It made much more sense being included on "The Chain" boxed set.

[UndoingTheLaces]

I've heard there are different versions of Silver Springs. Does anyone have a comprehensive list of them? I heard the one of the studio recordings was different on a greatest hits CD than on the single or something? I don't have all the greatest hits compilations so I wasn't sure which I should look for.

[SisterNightroad]

I've heard there are different versions of Silver Springs. Does anyone have a comprehensive list of them? I heard the one of the studio recordings was different on a greatest hits CD than on the single or something? I don't have all the greatest hits compilations so I wasn't sure which I should look for.
Here are all the outtakes and demos existent: http://stevienicksivorykeys.blogspot.it/2014/03/stevie-nicks-outtakes-demos-beginning_42.html

This is the original B-side version of Go your own way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FLXwCc9kCk&list=UUGPkv6D-iB9ng8ITFyweGPA

But this is my favourite album version and I don't know, as you say, from which one it is: http://www.mediafire.com/listen/1a72yu9wqc2wwb7/08)_Silver_Springs_Demo.mp3

[Turn It On]

Here are all the outtakes and demos existent: http://stevienicksivorykeys.blogspot.it/2014/03/stevie-nicks-outtakes-demos-beginning_42.html

Is that Ivory Keys website a comprehensive list of all of Stevie's songs? I never knew there were that many!

[SisterNightroad]

Is that Ivory Keys website a comprehensive list of all of Stevie's songs? I never knew there were that many!
It is a comprehensive list of all the outtakes and demo circulating on the internet.
It's very useful.

[TheWILDheart]

I have it on good authority that there is a 1990 recording of "Silver Springs". Stevie re-recorded the song for inclusion on Timespace but was discouraged from using it by the label because "Silver Springs" inclusion on The Chain boxset was the biggest marketing tool and the label didn't want to hinder sales of the boxset.

[WatchChain]

I don't think it would have been a good fit on "Timespace". At that time, (1991...or was it 1992?) her solo hits and the two new tracks were just so "80's" oriented in their sound. "Silver Springs" really has that signature 70's Fleetwood Mac sound, and would have sounded out of place.

I think it sounds great on "Crystal Visions" though, because it included more singles from the 90's and 2000's, as well as live cuts and the Deep Dish remix. So "Silver Springs" sits well on that one since there's no predominant "sound" or "era" like "Timespace" in my opinion.

In retrospect, I'm glad Mick didn't let her have it. It made much more sense being included on "The Chain" boxed set.

I have to agree with you on that. I think "Silver Springs" really had no place on "Timespace: The Best of Stevie Nicks". I can't imagine "Silver Springs" fitting into a sequenced set with songs like "Talk To Me", "I Can't Wait" and "Rooms on Fire". Moreover, having a wonderful classic like "Silver Springs" displayed against a backdrop of such HORRENDOUS numbers as "Desert Angel" and "Love's A Hard Game To Play" is simply frightening.

[SteveMacD]

I have to agree with you on that. I think "Silver Springs" really had no place on "Timespace: The Best of Stevie Nicks". I can't imagine "Silver Springs" fitting into a sequenced set with songs like "Talk To Me", "I Can't Wait" and "Rooms on Fire". Moreover, having a wonderful classic like "Silver Springs" displayed against a backdrop of such HORRENDOUS numbers as "Desert Angel" and "Love's A Hard Game To Play" is simply frightening.
Mick said that by the time Stevie asked to use it, he COULDN'T let her use it because he already signed a contract with WB for the box set. However, Stevie would have been well within her rights to rerecord the song. Fleetwood Mac owns that recording, but not the actual song. The writers probably sign a mechanical license agreement that gives the band the right to use the recordings however it wants so long as the writers are properly compensated. Once that agreement is signed, the writers have no control over that particular recording.

[straightback818]

I think Stevie was so adamant because she wanted to release as a single, maybe ideally to finally get her precious song on the radio.

I kinda get her anger, the song Fleetwood Mac so delicately dropped into an abyss, and then don't give her chance to make the song happen on her own.

In her eyes:
1.) have it on timespace and release it as a single
2.) have it on the chain boxset just so Mick, the guy who told her the song was dropped 15 years only, could get some more cash in his pocket. It also wouldnt get much more attention in the boxset than before

[PenguinHead]

TimeSpace was a collection of her solo career songs. To have Silver Springs on it would have been so incongruous. I understand her frustration that the song was inexplicably regulated to an obscure b-side, and she wanted to give it a high profile, but TimeSpace wasn't the proper platform.

The song became legendary because of its obscurity. Even though it emerged in The Chain box set, the song didn't really reach the masses until it was featured on The Dance. Interestingly, the song was performed several times in 1976/1977, but only became concert staple after it appeared on The Dance album/DVD.

I like the reissue of Rumours that places Silver Springs where it should have been all along.

[SteveMacD]

I think Stevie was so adamant because she wanted to release as a single, maybe ideally to finally get her precious song on the radio.
She had every right to rerecord the song, since she owns it. She just doesn’t own Fleetwood Mac’s recording of the song, and Mick wasn’t at liberty to let her release the song.

I kinda get her anger, the song Fleetwood Mac so delicately dropped into an abyss, and then don't give her chance to make the song happen on her own.
If Stevie wanted it on “Rumours,” she should have been willing to cut the time down. Per Gotta Groove Records (http://gottagrooverecords.com/faq/) (the pressing company my friend uses for his albums):

“12” @*33 1/3*RPM: 18 minutes per side is ideal, 20 minutes per side is still good, 22 minutes per side may cause issues depending upon the music, anything over 22 minutes – please call us before placing your order.”

Lindsey - 8:53
Christine - 14:05
“The Chain” - 4:49
Stevie w/ IDWTK - 12:28
Stevie w/ Silver Springs - 14:00
TOTAL w/ IDWTK - 39:56
TOTAL w/ “Silver Springs” - 41:28

The only way I see it working is if they trimmed the last 30 seconds off of “Silver Springs,” “Oh Daddy,” and GDW. BTW, Christine having more album time makes sense when factoring in she, Mick, and John were still dealing with a lawsuit over who owned the name Fleetwood Mac that predated Stevie and Lindsey joining the band.

In her eyes:
1.) have it on timespace and release it as a single
2.) have it on the chain boxset just so Mick, the guy who told her the song was dropped 15 years only, could get some more cash in his pocket. It also wouldnt get much more attention in the boxset than before
1.) Rerecord it for “Timespace” and release it as a single. It’s not like she hasn’t rerecord “Crystal” (twice!) or “Twisted.” That was perfectly within her rights.

2.) It was out of his hands. Even if he wanted her to have it at that point, there was no way that could happen without Warner’s approval. Warners had the exclusive mechanical rights to Fleetwood Mac’s recording of the song at that point. If a record label lets a song or album go out of print for ten years, the releasing rights go back to the artist. “Silver Springs” was originally released as a b-side to GYOW in 1977. It was rereleased as the b-side to “Don’t Stop” as part of Warner Bros. “Back To Back Hits” series of 45s around 1987. Then it was released in 1992 on “The Chain” and again in 2002 on “The Very Best Of Fleetwood Mac” (ten years later, go figure). With the 2011 reissue, it’s Warner’s property until 2021, assuming that they'd ever let a version of "Rumours" with "Silver Springs" ever go out of print.

Thing is, Stevie had to know all of this. If I know this just being a friend of an indie rock artist and having very, very minor personal dealings with it myself, there's no way somebody who had been in the industry for 18 years at that point didn't know that. I think she just used it as an excuse to leave the band knowing that most people don't know enough to question that reasoning.

[tabruns]

Actually I kind of doubt that Stevie did know all that. It's more likely to have been emotional: She asked Mick, he said no, it was like opening an old wound because she was so hurt when it got yanked off Rumours, and ergo she quit.

From the sound of it when Nicks explained it, there wasn't time to record a new version, hence why she asked Mick for it. At the time I was annoyed with Mick too, not knowing that it was going to come out on The Chain later.

[Tusky]

On Timespace I could see it fitting in between Beauty and the Beast and If Anyone Falls. :thumbsup:

[Travis]

On Timespace I could see it fitting in between Beauty and the Beast and If Anyone Falls. :thumbsup:

Tusky, I've always said that I think "Timespace" is one of Stevie's most perfectly sequenced albums. "Beauty and the Beast" going right into "If Anyone Falls" is flawless. I think inserting SS between the two would have messed up the flow.

I too do not see the original recording of SS fitting into Timespace, but perhaps a newly recorded version would have fit. None of this matters much anyway, it all worked out in the end. :D

[PenguinHead]

She had every right to rerecord the song, since she owns it. She just doesn’t own Fleetwood Mac’s recording of the song, and Mick wasn’t at liberty to let her release the song.

If Stevie wanted it on “Rumours,” she should have been willing to cut the time down. Per Gotta Groove Records (http://gottagrooverecords.com/faq/) (the pressing company my friend uses for his albums):

1.) Rerecord it for “Timespace” and release it as a single. It’s not like she hasn’t rerecord “Crystal” (twice!) or “Twisted.” That was perfectly within her rights.

2.) It was out of his hands. Even if he wanted her to have it at that point, there was no way that could happen without Warner’s approval. Warners had the exclusive mechanical rights to Fleetwood Mac’s recording of the song at that point. If a record label lets a song or album go out of print for ten years, the releasing rights go back to the artist. “Silver Springs” was originally released as a b-side to GYOW in 1977. It was rereleased as the b-side to “Don’t Stop” as part of Warner Bros. “Back To Back Hits” series of 45s around 1987. Then it was released in 1992 on “The Chain” and again in 2002 on “The Very Best Of Fleetwood Mac” (ten years later, go figure). With the 2011 reissue, it’s Warner’s property until 2021, assuming that they'd ever let a version of "Rumours" with "Silver Springs" ever go out of print.

Thing is, Stevie had to know all of this. If I know this just being a friend of an indie rock artist and having very, very minor personal dealings with it myself, there's no way somebody who had been in the industry for 18 years at that point didn't know that. I think she just used it as an excuse to leave the band knowing that most people don't know enough to question that reasoning.

This makes perfect sense of the issue, and how it all went down. I assume Warner Brothers wanted Silver Springs for The Chain box set on the basis of marketing, as it was a strong selling point. Stevie, knowingly or unknowingly, chose to publicly target Mick as the bad guy pulling the strings. Wow! Ironically, because of all the drama, the song, it went from obscurity to legendary.

I remember getting the single of Go Your Own Way and discovering this unknown, mystical song hiding out on the b-side. Then I became obsessed with the poorly recorded bootleg of a very rare live performance of the song early on; I think when they went on tour in 1976 and tried out some new, yet to be released songs from Rumours. I guess because the song didn't make it on the album, it didn't make the set list. I can't be sure, but think some D-jays (sic?)played the song on a local Boston radio station ( I lived there). Back in those days they weren't ruled by corporations and could play whatever they wanted. They could spin a 10 minute song so they could take a bathroom break or whatever.