Mick's book- the "Time" Band

[Mr Scarrott]

Just read the couple of pages devoted to this line-up in Mick's book. Entertainingly grim is how I would put it. Dave and Bekka didn't hit it off to say the least (what, quarrels in this band? Plus ça change!). Mick was hoping against hope that Chris would rescind her decision not to tour, but was left with what he had and had to make the best of it until he had to collapse it realising his mistake. He's kinder about the music they produced and just says they were a good band with the wrong name.. Behind the Mask barely gets a mention at all...

[SteveMacD]

I always wondered if there were issues between them, considering he has a history with the family.

[SteveMacD]

Either way, THE only reason Dave Mason ever ended up in Fleetwood Mac was because Billy quit.

[nicole21290]

I always wondered if there were issues between them, considering he has a history with the family.

Yeah, Mick says he'd been hoping that's a reason they WOULD get on, have good chemistry, etc, because they'd known each other via family for so long. But as Mr Scarrot said, not so much. Quite the opposite.

[SteveMacD]

Yeah, Mick says he'd been hoping that's a reason they WOULD get on, have good chemistry, etc, because they'd known each other via family for so long. But as Mr Scarrot, not so much. Quite the opposite.
Oddly enough, though, that WAS the case for her with Billy.

[SteveMacD]

So, Christine didn't like Dave, Bekka didn't like Dave, Richard Dashut didn't like Dave...Why exactly did they keep him around after Billy Burnette came back?

[wetcamelfood]

So, Christine didn't like Dave, Bekka didn't like Dave, Richard Dashut didn't like Dave...Why exactly did they keep him around after Billy Burnette came back?

Billy didn't feel comfortable playing lead guitar so as was the reason with Rick being there, they needed another guitarist for that if nothing else.

John

[SteveMacD]

Billy didn't feel comfortable playing lead guitar so as was the reason with Rick being there, they needed another guitarist for that if nothing else.
If that was the case they could've just gotten somebody who didn't sing, such as Gregg Wright from the Zoo, to handle the leads. The weird thing is Billy actually played many of the leads on the old Fleetwood Mac songs.

[HomerMcvie]

If that was the case they could've just gotten somebody who didn't sing, such as Gregg Wright from the Zoo, to handle the leads. The weird thing is Billy actually played many of the leads on the old Fleetwood Mac songs.

I saw Billy at the Country Music Hall of Fame, with Pete Anderson(Dwight Yoakam's long time guitar player and producer, for those who don't know). Billy played a few solos, and did fine. Yeah, he's not gonna knock your socks off, but he can hold his own.

[wetcamelfood]

If that was the case they could've just gotten somebody who didn't sing, such as Gregg Wright from the Zoo, to handle the leads. The weird thing is Billy actually played many of the leads on the old Fleetwood Mac songs.

True, but as we know Mick never thinks there's too many singer/songwriters in the band so it may have been insurance in case Christine didn't come back and he must've known she wouldn't run back once she knew Mason was now in the band. I'd be very surprised if he claims to have no knowledge of her misgivings on him.

Yeah I think Billy's solos are fine as well but I guess he doesn't so...

Not saying Mason was the right thing to do, just trying to put myself in Mick's shoes as to why he may have come to the decisions he did but I know, hindsight is 20/20. :)

John

[SteveMacD]

True, but as we know Mick never thinks there's too many singer/songwriters in the band so it may have been insurance in case Christine didn't come back and he must've known she wouldn't run back once she knew Mason was now in the band. I'd be very surprised if he claims to have no knowledge of her misgivings on him.

Yeah I think Billy's solos are fine as well but I guess he doesn't so...

Not saying Mason was the right thing to do, just trying to put myself in Mick's shoes as to why he may have come to the decisions he did but I know, hindsight is 20/20. :)
I think adding Dave made sense after Billy quit, but he became unnecessary after Billy came back, especially since the other two singers and the producer weren't digging him. Too much unnecessary drama.

[wetcamelfood]

I think adding Dave made sense after Billy quit, but he became unnecessary after Billy came back, especially since the other two singers and the producer weren't digging him. Too much unnecessary drama.

Yeah knowing this now makes one wonder why the penny didn't drop with Mick.

John

[Macfan4life]

There was an interview with Christine in 1995 where she did an online chat interview (the internet was coming of age then) where she openly criticized the guitarists in Fleetwood Mac and questioned Mick's judgment. I remember reading that and was like WOW she really did not like them or their talent.

[SteveMacD]

There was an interview with Christine in 1995 where she did an online chat interview (the internet was coming of age then) where she openly criticized the guitarists in Fleetwood Mac and questioned Mick's judgment. I remember reading that and was like WOW she really did not like them or their talent.

The only one she was negative about was Dave. She made a joke about Billy, but it was clearly a joke. Billy was on her 2004 solo album, so I think she had warm feelings for him.

[welcomechris]

Billy didn't feel comfortable playing lead guitar so as was the reason with Rick being there, they needed another guitarist for that if nothing else.

John

Why did rick leave

[michelej1]

Why did rick leave

Mick said Rick left to launch his own solo career. In the past, Stevie has said that Rick was not happy when Mick refused to let Stevie have the Silver Springs recording and that Rick sided with Stevie over Mick.

Michele

[wetcamelfood]

This is the one thing Rick won't comment on in his career. You can ask him anything else and he'll answer it but not this. Sure makes you wonder...

John

[Macfan4life]

The only one she was negative about was Dave. She made a joke about Billy, but it was clearly a joke. Billy was on her 2004 solo album, so I think she had warm feelings for him.
yes you are right. I did not mean to imply Billy since they are friends and they played together. She meant the new guitarists. Billy was established with the band them.

[michelej1]

And of course Rick toured with Stevie on the Street Angel tour.

Michele

[Murrow]

This is the one thing Rick won't comment on in his career. You can ask him anything else and he'll answer it but not this. Sure makes you wonder...

John

I think I read him saying something once about not having enough creative space or something. Could be misremembering though. Certainly he only had the one solo lead vocal on BTM - Stand On the Rock which was very much my favourite track on the album when it came out. Still think it's a real shame that line-up didn't last another album or two. Rick brought such an edge to Fleetwood Mac and gelled really well musically with Mick and John.

[wetcamelfood]

I think I read him saying something once about not having enough creative space or something. Could be misremembering though. Certainly he only had the one solo lead vocal on BTM - Stand On the Rock which was very much my favourite track on the album when it came out. Still think it's a real shame that line-up didn't last another album or two. Rick brought such an edge to Fleetwood Mac and gelled really well musically with Mick and John.

Yes well "creative differences" was the blurb given to the press at the time but what the real reason was is anybody's guess. I'm sure it didn't help in this regard that many recorded but unused RV tracks (that had leaked out on boots) were considered by fans to be much better than what was used on BTM but based on what I've pieced together is that it was mainly due to a personal family matter as to the main reason he quit. I guess we'll never know for sure though.

John

[PenguinHead]

Oddly enough, though, that WAS the case for her with Billy.

Billy and Bekka made a nice country album together! They have similar musical pedigrees.

[PenguinHead]

Yes well "creative differences" was the blurb given to the press at the time but what the real reason was is anybody's guess. I'm sure it didn't help in this regard that many recorded but unused RV tracks (that had leaked out on boots) were considered by fans to be much better than what was used on BTM but based on what I've pieced together is that it was mainly due to a personal family matter as to the main reason he quit. I guess we'll never know for sure though.

John

Fleetwood Mac severely under-utilized Rick's talent and contributions to the band. He brought the blues back to the band full circle, but he was painted into a small corner. Had that configuration of the band evolved, it would have been fascinating to see them adopting a more bluesy style -- a little more heavy and a little less poppy.

He's a very respected musician and much in demand sessions player. I have almost all of his solo albums.

[Street_Dreamer]

Billy and Bekka made a nice country album together! They have similar musical pedigrees.

The Bekka And Billy album is not only a great country album, it's a great album in general. Bekka's vocals are superb, particularly her backing vocals on Heart To Call Home. Billy doesn't get nearly enough credit for his abilities as an artist and a songwriter. He's always been able to fit himself into different music genres seamlessly and with authenticity.

[Mr Scarrott]

I have mixed feelings about this whole period. I liked most of Time. Christine delivered, on a song-by-song basis, better material than on BTM, and she did make an effort to appear on Bekka and Billy's (very subtly in his case, but I can hear her here and there in the mix). Mason is just out of place, like the previous Dave, but Mick's These Strange Times captures the confusion of the era perfectly. So taken in its entirety, the album makes a passable case for a change of direction after yet another personnel change, with a heavyweight holdover from the previous regime taking on the burdern of carrying the torch (think Danny Kirwan on Future Games).

I would have to concede that the newcomers do not deliver material that stands comparison with Chris and Bob Welch's contributions to FG, so the comparison falls down a little. I do think Billy's songs are much better than his BTM songs, however.

The main problem is the fact that there was a studio entity and a touring Mac. I don't blame Chris at all for not touring. They never played in the UK during this period, so I never saw them live, but I wonder if I would have been able to summon up the emotional belief to buy into their performance. Out of loyalty and curiosity I would probably have gone, but the performances I've seen on youtube lack a certain chemistry and I'm kind of glad I never had the chance. With Chris it would have made some sort of sense and they might have got away with it, but Billy, as the sole front-line survivor from the BTM front line didn't or couldn't make enough of a stamp musically to justify them carrying on. Although Mick and John were there, there wasn't enough of the musical blood-line carrying on to to hook in the punters.

[wetcamelfood]

One thing I just thought of regarding Mick's comments on this time in the new book is that he basically says due to the fighting with Mason/Bekka etc. he couldn't keep this going. So how come fighting was tolerated for Rumours etc. but not this?

John

[Mr Scarrott]

One thing I just thought of regarding Mick's comments on this time in the new book is that he basically says due to the fighting with Mason/Bekka etc. he couldn't keep this going. So how come fighting was tolerated for Rumours etc. but not this?

John

I think it came down to money (or rather the lack of it) and artistic failure, don't you? I just wish that Rick had stayed and Billy had left permanently instead. No Mason/Bramlett incarnation, but maybe, just maybe we could have had a Rick/Chris/John/Mick blues combo touring smaller venues for a couple of years or so. That would really have worked, and people would have bought into the idea. Congratulations, John on your imminent 2000th post!

Mike (Scarrott)

[SteveMacD]

One thing I just thought of regarding Mick's comments on this time in the new book is that he basically says due to the fighting with Mason/Bekka etc. he couldn't keep this going. So how come fighting was tolerated for Rumours etc. but not this?
1. Mick, John, and Christine were still dealing with the lawsuit over who owned the name Fleetwood Mac during Rumours.

2. The band had finally broken through and were touring behind a hit album when the personal relationships fell apart. They were able to use that as creative inspiration.

3. There's a big difference between couples breaking up and two people who don't like each other. Neither is pleasant, but the couples were able to maintain professional relationships.

4. Lindsey Buckingham was back in the picture by that point. A Buckingham-Fleetwood tour would have been more respectable than a Fleetwood Mac tour that didn't feature any of the Rumours singers while still relying heavily on that material.

I think it came down to money (or rather the lack of it) and artistic failure, don't you?
Probably. The fact is they never toured in support of that album, so we'll never really know what potential it had, if any. Given the weak sales numbers of the solo albums by Stevie and Lindsey, I doubt it would have done a lot better.

I just wish that Rick had stayed and Billy had left permanently instead. No Mason/Bramlett incarnation, but maybe, just maybe we could have had a Rick/Chris/John/Mick blues combo touring smaller venues for a couple of years or so. That would really have worked, and people would have bought into the idea.
The problem with that is Christine had retired from touring by that point. I wish Rick and Billy had both stayed and the band still brought Bekka on board.

The problem with the whole era, starting with the Tango tour, is that they were too subservient to the Rumours legacy, which was understandable, but not something that they had done during the previous personnel changes. They didn't do any Peter Green songs on the Kiln House tour, for example. As a result, the new members were allowed to develop their own identities within the context of Fleetwood Mac.

[wetcamelfood]

Congratulations, John on your imminent 2000th post!

Mike (Scarrott)

Thanks Mike, didn't even notice. here it is I guess! :)

John

[PenguinHead]

I was on a roller coaster excursion at Six Flags in California and was surprised to see that Fleetwood Mac was performing there, later that day,along with REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar. I was both elated and skeptical.

I knew that Stevie, Lindsey and Christine were gone, and felt crestfallen that their status was now at level where they were performing shows at an amusement park with two somewhat has-beens from the 1980s. The only saving grace was that they were the headliners.

The show was fine for what it was. But it was a little disconcerting when they performed classic Fleetwood Mac songs. Most of the audience was likely very confused and not informed about drastic line up change. Only a fraction of the venue was filled, and I saw people walking out during the show. It was sad. I recall feeling so worried about what kind of future was in store for the band.

I can't recall, but I thought I already had the Time album when I saw this show. But I've seen some posts saying that the album didn't come out until after their tour.

[SteveMacD]

I can't recall, but I thought I already had the Time album when I saw this show. But I've seen some posts saying that the album didn't come out until after their tour.
It was released Oct. 10, 1995. There was BTM with Billy and "Shakin' The Cage" by the Zoo with Bekka.

[chiliD]

Probably. The fact is they never toured in support of that album, so we'll never really know what potential it had, if any. Given the weak sales numbers of the solo albums by Stevie and Lindsey, I doubt it would have done a lot better.

The problem with the whole era, starting with the Tango tour, is that they were too subservient to the Rumours legacy, which was understandable, but not something that they had done during the previous personnel changes. They didn't do any Peter Green songs on the Kiln House tour, for example. As a result, the new members were allowed to develop their own identities within the context of Fleetwood Mac.

Wasn't until Welch got in the band did they start adding Peter's tunes again. (and even Danny took a shot at singing "Black Magic Woman" for a while...that was pretty cool; he did a great job with it.)


The show was fine for what it was. But it was a little disconcerting when they performed classic Fleetwood Mac songs. Most of the audience was likely very confused and not informed about drastic line up change. Only a fraction of the venue was filled, and I saw people walking out during the show. It was sad. I recall feeling so worried about what kind of future was in store for the band.

It really WASN'T "drastic", the changes happened over the course of about 8 years...it wasn't their fault if you (the euphemistic "you", not "you" in particular) didn't "keep up". I saw them almost a year to the day before the Time album came out...(T-shirts & posters were promoting the "upcoming album Another Link In The Chain")...they were great! (even a guest appearance by Bekka's mom, Bonnie) It was a bit weird seeing Dave Mason with them...but I figured that would be the case, since it was their first (and what turned out to be, only) tour with this lineup. Knowing that they would have to play a few of the Rumours hits, I was really looking forward to hearing what this lineup would come up on their own.

What has really surprised me is that the show I saw was broadcast in its entirety on then radio station KLSX-FM, yet I've never seen a recording of the show in bootleg trading circles. Did nobody at the radio station hit the "record" button? :shrug:



I can't recall, but I thought I already had the Time album when I saw this show. But I've seen some posts saying that the album didn't come out until after their tour.

It was released Oct. 10, 1995. .

I believe the last tour date was in September of '95...but the website I normally go to "fact check" myself on FMac tour related things isn't in biz anymore.

[PenguinHead]

Billy doesn't get nearly enough credit for his abilities as an artist and a songwriter. He's always been able to fit himself into different music genres seamlessly and with authenticity.

That is very true. Got to give him big props for his talent.

[PenguinHead]

It really WASN'T "drastic", the changes happened over the course of about 8 years...it wasn't their fault if you (the euphemistic "you", not "you" in particular) didn't "keep up".

Most people who go to Six Flags were there for the amusements and rides -- and not expecting or intending to see Fleetwood Mac there. I know I wasn't!

Many of the attendees who went to the show, did so on a whim, with little knowledge of the band's history and the various configurations and changes in the group.

I assume they expected to see the most famous incarnation of the band, and its most identifiable members: Stevie, Lindsey and Christine. For them, it certainly was DRASTIC (capitalized, italicized and bolded for dramatic emphasis, I guess! lol)

[chiliD]

Most people who go to Six Flags were there for the amusements and rides -- and not expecting or intending to see Fleetwood Mac there. I know I wasn't!

Many of the attendees who went to the show, did so on a whim, with little knowledge of the band's history and the various configurations and changes in the group.

I assume they expected to see the most famous incarnation of the band, and its most identifiable members: Stevie, Lindsey and Christine. For them, it certainly was DRASTIC (capitalized, italicized and bolded for dramatic emphasis, I guess! lol)

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.

Nobody expects to see The Beach Boys, Herman's Hermits, The Turtles, Three Dog Night, or name any band of the '60s or '70s, and have it be any more than MAYBE the lead singer and a hired gun group backing them.

So, why would anyone think that seeing "Fleetwood Mac" at a Theme Park of any corporate ownership would be any more than Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, the band's namesakes, and people of varying degrees of fame elsewhere fronting the band?

Maybe I'm jaded, but I'd NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS ever expect that a famous band playing at a [insert one] a) Theme Park, b) County Fair, c) State Fair, to be the complete group that made the band famous. It's weird enough that someone like Bob Dylan plays those venues on a regular basis.

[SteveMacD]

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.
I ultimately agree with your point. Let's face it, there aren't too many bands as famous as Fleetwood Mac, where most of the people who make up the classic line-up are famous in their own right. BUT, I do think people expect to see at least one of the singers that made a band famous. REO Speedwagon does it. The Bangles have everybody but Michael Steele and do it.

So, why would anyone think that seeing "Fleetwood Mac" at a Theme Park of any corporate ownership would be any more than Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, the band's namesakes, and people of varying degrees of fame elsewhere fronting the band?
Most people probably at least expected Christine or Lindsey to be there. If they weren't paying attention to what was going on in music, they likely missed Lindsey quit, far less knew that Billy had been with them for eight years (which is telling).

As I've said many times before, the fact that there was no album out made the lack of originals easier to deal with, but that package tour was just a bad idea all around. Opening for CSN was okay, especially given the connection between Dave (and even Bonnie Bramlett) and CSN. The ideal would have been to do a club tour and play mostly new songs from BTM and "Time," with a sprinkling of Mason and Mac classics.

[PenguinHead]

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.



My post was apparently misunderstood. A large portion of people in attendance at the park were likely not that informed about Fleetwood Mac and the changes in the band. They would likely only be aware of the most famous members of the band. Give me break. There is nothing foolish about. Beyond our myopic grand visions of the band, there exists a large population of people who aren't ardent followers. Seriously! Not acutely in touch with the band's evolustion, it is certain that many expected the line up they were most familiar with. I was there - I witnessed the confused reactions. Yes, this was an amusement park , with a large demographic of families and children; only a slightest fraction of attendees would have knowledge of the band's latest incarnation. The Time era was, indisputably, the most obscure transitional period in their history.

[Mr Scarrott]

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.

How was the show marketed at the park? Were there posters with the new-line up with their names added advertising the gig? It might have been a bit misleading otherwise to the casual, unknowing punter. But no-one surely could have expected the Rumours five, or even four of them.

I wondered who the folks who turned up at the 1993 Superbowl pre-show were expecting, particularly after the Clinton innauguation ball. That was after all, the one occasion when Chris played live with the band post- 1974 without either Stevie or Lindsey.

[cascade13]

How was the show marketed at the park? Were there posters with the new-line up with their names added advertising the gig? It might have been a bit misleading otherwise to the casual, unknowing punter. But no-one surely could have expected the Rumours five, or even four of them.

I wondered who the folks who turned up at the 1993 Superbowl pre-show were expecting, particularly after the Clinton innauguation ball. That was after all, the one occasion when Chris played live with the band post- 1974 without either Stevie or Lindsey.

That Great America show was my first-ever Fleetwood Mac show. When that lineup broke up a few months later, I figured for a while it'd be my *only* one!

Anyway, I remember it was advertised in the newspaper in a small box in the corner, in between Pat Benatar and REO Speedwagon, but no mention of who was in the band at that point. (I really only knew because of newsgroups and such back then.) At the park, there was a poster with an updated shot of the touring lineup (minus Steve Thoma) outside the amphitheater entrance, but no names at all. A couple people in front of us in line were lamenting the fact that FM had "no originals" at that point (Mick and John notwithstanding), but they did go in anyway...

In hindsight, it was a fun show, if not ground-breaking. FM was the middle act, after Pat Benatar (who was great), and we left a few songs into REO. Having seen the BN-based lineup three times, I can see what people realized they were missing, but I still think Billy's GYOW ranks up there with Lindsey's modern-day version (guitar solo aside).

[cascade13]

So, Christine didn't like Dave, Bekka didn't like Dave, Richard Dashut didn't like Dave...Why exactly did they keep him around after Billy Burnette came back?

(I'm going back a little bit in the thread, I know, but hadn't read it until now.)

A few reasons, I'm guessing. If Billy had been comfortable as a lead guitarist, I assume they would have hired him in that capacity in the first place, not both him and Rick...so they still needed a separate lead guitarist alongside him. As to why they kept Dave instead of trying to coax Rick back, etc. ... Mick and Dave were tight, and Mick sold him on being a member of the band, so he probably didn't want to back away from his decision. And it probably didn't hurt Dave's cause that he was the most widely known singer/songwriter in the band, aside from Christine.

All that said, obviously it wasn't the *right* choice. I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

[wetcamelfood]

I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

Also, Billy knew Rick already (in fact he had suggested Rick to Mick when Mick asked Billy to join and Billy voiced his concerns over playing lead guitar & Billy thought Rick would be a good fit, Mick said he worked with Rick at a previous session and liked him, not sure which one, my guess is Billy's Way Down from the Just One Of The Guys soundtrack, if it was something that was released) and I don't know if Billy knew Dave well if at all when he joined so there seems to have been a lot of assuming on Mick's part that everyone would hit it off which we now know was not the case at all.

John

[chiliD]

(I'm going back a little bit in the thread, I know, but hadn't read it until now.)

A few reasons, I'm guessing. If Billy had been comfortable as a lead guitarist, I assume they would have hired him in that capacity in the first place, not both him and Rick...so they still needed a separate lead guitarist alongside him. As to why they kept Dave instead of trying to coax Rick back, etc. ... Mick and Dave were tight, and Mick sold him on being a member of the band, so he probably didn't want to back away from his decision. And it probably didn't hurt Dave's cause that he was the most widely known singer/songwriter in the band, aside from Christine.

All that said, obviously it wasn't the *right* choice. I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

Actually, I believe it was the other way 'round. Dave was staying in Mick's guest house in Malibu (or Pacific Palisades, wherever his house called "The Blue Whale" was)...while Mick was going through the motions trying to find a replacement for Rick, Dave just kept bugging Mick to just let him join the band & the search would be over. Mick kept putting him off for quite some time (according to some interview with Mick I read), but then finally relented. I think all the family tree stuff with Bekka's parents & Dave being in their band; and, Billy working with Delaney on an album or two, looked good on paper, but the reality didn't work as well as it probably should've, due to personalities that SEEMED like they'd mesh, when actually they didn't. (like what John said in his post right above me...note to self: read the ENTIRE previous post before hitting "reply")

[PenguinHead]

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish. It's weird enough that someone like Bob Dylan plays those venues on a regular basis.

This shouldn't be a debate, so I agree with you. You're right. And I'm right. Fleetwood Mac in name, is a brand, and the general public knows, more or less, the main image of that brand as Stevie, Lindsey and Christine.

Yet Fleetwood Mac, while undeniably a high profile band, isn't as culturally omnipotent and universally familiar as Micky Mouse or McDonald's. And, in context of the musical landscape of the early 199os, they teetered on the edge of obsolescence. It's hard to conceive, but there is a large demographic of humanity that are not intimately attentive to the band, and many may only have a vague knowledge about them, with faint familiarity and recognition of a few of their popular songs.

It's a real long shot to expect them to theorize or question how a such a legendary band could possibly be appearing at an amusement park. It's not even reverentially conscience to them. And even casual fans of the band -- fans who aren't ardently following their every move, might not even be aware of the band's current status at that point. The Time band configuration and the Time album flew a little a bit lower on the radar. I give major credit to Mick for adding another link in the chain to keep the band alive. Even though it wasn't the strongest link, it served a greater purpose. He previously faced a similar situation when Peter Green went adrift.

Yes, it's foolish, so you're right.:thumbsup:

[aleuzzi]

When Time works, it works surprisingly well, which is more than I can say for Behind the Mask.

I remember first hearing it and thinking Christine sounded fantastic vocally. I just couldn't stand the keyboards she chose to use. What's wrong with an acoustic piano and a Hammond B3? Or any other number of more professional sounding synthesizers?

I Got It In for You is a great tune, as are Nothing Without You, Winds of Change, and Talking to My Heart.

[FuzzyPlum]

When Time works, it works surprisingly well, which is more than I can say for Behind the Mask.

I remember first hearing it and thinking Christine sounded fantastic vocally. I just couldn't stand the keyboards she chose to use. What's wrong with an acoustic piano and a Hammond B3? Or any other number of more professional sounding synthesizers?

I Got It In for You is a great tune, as are Nothing Without You, Winds of Change, and Talking to My Heart.

I think the majority of the songs on Time are decent songs. The overall sound is a bit 'light' though. Everyone goes on about how Stevie needs Lindsey's production touch- I think the same can equally be said of Christine's material. Her songs on Time are good and could have possibly appeared on any of the previous albums. Perhaps if she'd had Lindsey's involvement they would have been elevated to another level. The same can be said of her contributions to Behind The Mask and her solo albums- all decent songs that are just a bit short of what they could have been.

[FuzzyPlum]

(I'm going back a little bit in the thread, I know, but hadn't read it until now.)

A few reasons, I'm guessing. If Billy had been comfortable as a lead guitarist, I assume they would have hired him in that capacity in the first place, not both him and Rick...so they still needed a separate lead guitarist alongside him. As to why they kept Dave instead of trying to coax Rick back, etc. ... Mick and Dave were tight, and Mick sold him on being a member of the band, so he probably didn't want to back away from his decision. And it probably didn't hurt Dave's cause that he was the most widely known singer/songwriter in the band, aside from Christine.

All that said, obviously it wasn't the *right* choice. I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

I wonder how things would have panned out had Rick been in the Time band rather than Dave. Would the 'Rumours' band still gotten back together or would they have gone on harmoniously with a Mick, John, Billy, Rick, Bekka line-up? They would have never reached the heights of the past but I wonder whether they'd have been successful enough and happy enough to have continued for a while as a band. Rick Billy and Bekka would have made a really interesting creative grouping- ultimately a complete departure in sound and style from anything FM had done previously but I think they could have had some real success.

[cascade13]

I think the majority of the songs on Time are decent songs. The overall sound is a bit 'light' though. Everyone goes on about how Stevie needs Lindsey's production touch- I think the same can equally be said of Christine's material. Her songs on Time are good and could have possibly appeared on any of the previous albums. Perhaps if she'd had Lindsey's involvement they would have been elevated to another level. The same can be said of her contributions to Behind The Mask and her solo albums- all decent songs that are just a bit short of what they could have been.

Absolutely. I'm not a musician myself, but I can certainly hear a difference in Christine's songs as they went from producer to producer between '87 and '97. For example, Little Lies (Lindsey/Richard) to Save Me (Greg Ladanyi) to Love Shines (Patrick Leonard) to I Do (Christine/Richard) and Temporary One (Lindsey/Elliot Scheiner...and a live recording). Anyone care to elaborate on what these guys did differently musically? All I can tell you is some sound clearer than others (ahem...BTM...).

[cascade13]

I wonder how things would have panned out had Rick been in the Time band rather than Dave. Would the 'Rumours' band still gotten back together or would they have gone on harmoniously with a Mick, John, Billy, Rick, Bekka line-up? They would have never reached the heights of the past but I wonder whether they'd have been successful enough and happy enough to have continued for a while as a band. Rick Billy and Bekka would have made a really interesting creative grouping- ultimately a complete departure in sound and style from anything FM had done previously but I think they could have had some real success.

That's a good question. If Mick had stayed true to form and called the band Fleetwood Mac (as he had every right to do), I think it would have been a very similar result in the end. Maybe an extra tour and a better album than Time, but I think the Rumours lineup reuniting was only a matter of time/money.

If I daydream and redo Time to focus on a Billy, Rick, and Bekka lineup (incorporating some solo songs from Billy/Rick and a few Christine contributions for posterity), maybe something like this:

Talking to My Heart
Desiree
Winds of Change
I Do
Walk Another Mile
Believe What You Say
Nothing Without You
Sooner or Later
Intuition
I Got It in for You
Dreaming the Dream
All Over Again

[PenguinHead]

One thing I just thought of regarding Mick's comments on this time in the new book is that he basically says due to the fighting with Mason/Bekka etc. he couldn't keep this going. So how come fighting was tolerated for Rumours etc. but not this?

John

It was a very different time, different place, different people.

In 1976 the band was experiencing a huge wave of creative and commercial success. It's well documented that the chemistry they had was worth preserving despite the infighting. They had a future ahead of them.

By the time the of the Time, Fleetwood Mac's stature was in flux. Now they were old school. Two of the prominent members were gone, and the third one (Christine) was barely holding on. The market/music scene, as well as their image had changed drastically.

They're performing in amusement parks, with two other somewhat has-been bands. They hardly had the chemistry or constitution to withstand the tensions between them. It's not hard to understand why this configuration had a short shelve life. It hindsight, Christine's tentative presence was precursor

In circumspect, it was Mick's attempt to persevere; to keep Fleetwood Mac alive. It was another link in the chain; a place holder of sorts, which allowed the next chapter of the the band to unfold: The Dance.

[PenguinHead]

That's a good question. If Mick had stayed true to form and called the band Fleetwood Mac (as he had every right to do), I think it would have been a very similar result in the end. Maybe an extra tour and a better album than Time, but I think the Rumours lineup reuniting was only a matter of time/money.

If I daydream and redo Time to focus on a Billy, Rick, and Bekka lineup (incorporating some solo songs from Billy/Rick and a few Christine contributions for posterity), maybe something like this:

Talking to My Heart
Desiree
Winds of Change
I Do
Walk Another Mile
Believe What You Say
Nothing Without You
Sooner or Later
Intuition
I Got It in for You
Dreaming the Dream
All Over Again

A great re-imagined album. The other songs would have the benefit of Rick's guitar.

I'm not familiar with Believe What You Say. Is that a Rick song?

[secret love]

This is a video I shared on my Facebook page. I think it takes on a special meaning during the festive season.

If I live to see a world free of war, terror, hatred, selfishness and greed; then I will know that I can die happy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/g_WadXLjgTw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cascade13]

A great re-imagined album. The other songs would have the benefit of Rick's guitar.

I'm not familiar with Believe What You Say. Is that a Rick song?

Thanks! Believe What You Say is a Billy song from Are You With Me Baby. I haven't heard it or read the liner notes in a while, but I think it has Bekka on backing vocals. And All Music shows it as having been written by his dad and uncle, so you can probably guess the basic style (short, up-tempo rock-and-roll song).

The other early-90s scenario in my head is a Billy-less Behind the Mask, had they decided to keep the Rumours-era model of three singers/one guitarist (in this case, Rick given his lead guitarist role). Rick clearly worked well with Stevie, and I'd have been curious to hear what he and Christine would have come up with, given their grounding in the blues. I'll have to give that playlist some thought...

[SteveMacD]

Billy quit in February, 1993. My new "What If" is what if Christine told Mick to wait nine months before adding any new blood. By then, Lindsey's solo tour would have been over. Based on some of the things he's said, Lindsey seemed pretty dejected about the experience. In truth, he worked his ass off trying to sell his masterpiece to no avail, and probably lost a lot of money on the tour. Worst still was that he wasn't able to really establish himself as a viable entity outside of Fleetwood Mac. The liberating feeling of being free from the band seemed to give way to the reality of being responsible for every detail of the live show.

I think if they had played their cards right, they could have gotten Lindsey back in late 1993. Christine would have had to be the on to initiate contact with him and they would have had to have a clearing of the air moment, but I think that could have happened, and they could have made an album as a quartet. And, Lindsey would have had enough material to front the live shows by himself .

[David]

They never played in the UK during this period, so I never saw them live, but I wonder if I would have been able to summon up the emotional belief to buy into their performance. Well put. That's exactly the way I'd put it, if I were as articulate as you are, Mike! I saw two shows at Clear Lake in California, one in 1994 and one in 1995. They were the most un-Brechtian Fleetwood Mac concerts I've ever seen. There wasn't even a glimmer of sparkle or theater in the performances. It was like watching a bunch of good musicians rehearse on a Saturday afternoon while their mates were grilling burgers out back. No glamour at all, no elation at hearing the classics being performed, and the tiny sense of sexual joy came from Bekka, but even that sexuality had no higher emotional feel—you watched Bekka and thought she was hot, but you didn't fall in love with her. Since 1967, people had been falling in love with one or more members of Fleetwood Mac at their concerts. But that identification was totally absent.

[Nicks Fan]

I always wondered what the deal was with Time? I though Christine had said that she was still willing to record new music but not tour. Then they did an album without her and it got rejected and then Chris returned to record Time with the new lineup. Why didn't she want to contribute to the initial recording sessions?

[SteveMacD]

She was always, at least publicly, involved with the project. There were pictures of her playing with Bekka and Dave prior to Billy's return, and there's the one full band picture. In every interview they gave, she was still mentioned as being the Brian Wilson of Fleetwood Mac. The only songs that she's definitely not on are the ones where Steve Thoma is listed as keyboards, as opposed to additional keyboards.

Maybe she started the project with the band but decided to pull out midway through, maybe around the same time Richard Dashut left the project, but was forced back into it for contractual reasons. I have no idea because there's photographic evidence she was there from the start, was always mentioned in interviews, and I've never seen anything to suggest that she wasn't involved.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ssjb283t1rxahxjo1_500.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/SteveMacD/FM94.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b313/SteveMacD/fleetwoodmac_1995.jpg

[Nicks Fan]

I thought though there was a CD "Another Link In The Chain" that got rejected by WB because none of the Rumors era Singers was on it and somehow she was convinced to return to the band and record with this lineup even though she did not tour.

[secret love]

I love Christine McVie and her music. She is a class act...the same cannot be said for her soul sister Stevie Nicks, I'm afraid. While Stevie is an equally talented singer-songwriter, she is not an accomplished musician - she can compose glorious melodies but cannot sustain a full concert with herself on piano and voice, like Christine can and did in 1984 for her second solo album.

Anyway, the album Time is horrendously under-rated simply because it does not feature Buckingham Nicks.

It was funny to read Christine's comments that Say You Will sounded to her like a Buckingham Nicks album with a great Fleetwood Mac rhythm section! Maybe she felt like she had missed out? She sounds great on Bleed to Love Her and Steal Your Heart Away, which were recorded I 1995, sans Stevie Nicks, I believe.

My favourite Fleetwood Mac album is Say You Will, despite the commentary here that says it is sub par.

Back to Time, I absolutely adore Winds of Change and These Strange Times is a welcome departure from the safe ground Fleetwood Mac had been treading musically since 1982's Mirage album.

[PenguinHead]

Anyway, the album Time is horrendously under-rated simply because it does not feature Buckingham Nicks.

It was funny to read Christine's comments that Say You Will sounded to her like a Buckingham Nicks album with a great Fleetwood Mac rhythm section! Maybe she felt like she had missed out?

My favourite Fleetwood Mac album is Say You Will, despite the commentary here that says it is sub par.


I agree that Time is a nice listen, It features a variety of songs from several singers/songwriters - historically following the format they've always had. It's just an unexpected and somewhat obscure anomaly in their history.

Christine was spot on with her assessment of Say You Will being like a Buckingham Nicks album. While stating the obvious, I don't think she said it with any regret that she wasn't involved with it -- it wouldn't sound Buckingham Nicks-like if she was still in the band.

[cbBen]

Billy quit in February, 1993. My new "What If" is what if Christine told Mick to wait nine months before adding any new blood. By then, Lindsey's solo tour would have been over. Based on some of the things he's said, Lindsey seemed pretty dejected about the experience. In truth, he worked his ass off trying to sell his masterpiece to no avail, and probably lost a lot of money on the tour. Worst still was that he wasn't able to really establish himself as a viable entity outside of Fleetwood Mac. The liberating feeling of being free from the band seemed to give way to the reality of being responsible for every detail of the live show.

I think if they had played their cards right, they could have gotten Lindsey back in late 1993. Christine would have had to be the on to initiate contact with him and they would have had to have a clearing of the air moment, but I think that could have happened, and they could have made an album as a quartet. And, Lindsey would have had enough material to front the live shows by himself .

I think he would have first needed to go through the experience of having his 1995 album rejected. Remember he went straight from the tour to the recording of his next album.

P.S. Do Mick and John play the bass and drums on "Big Love" from Tango? And does Christine play on it?

[HomerMcvie]

Have y'all heard this? 90 minutes long. I just started watching it. Listen to the pipes on Bekka! Lord have mercy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0F5ZSxXqPQ

[jmn3]

Have y'all heard this? 90 minutes long. I just started watching it. Listen to the pipes on Bekka! Lord have mercy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0F5ZSxXqPQ

Where you been? I think I made a thread about this last year some time. Too stuck in the world of chiffons and Persian carpets.

[HomerMcvie]

Where you been? I think I made a thread about this last year some time. Too stuck in the world of chiffons and Persian carpets.

Don't judge me! :mad::mad::mad:

My chiffon cut my eyeball, and I was in insensitive care for a month!

[jbrownsjr]

Don't judge me! :mad::mad::mad:

My chiffon cut my eyeball, and I was in insensitive care for a month!

It cut something else! :nod:

[HomerMcvie]

Where you been? I think I made a thread about this last year some time. Too stuck in the world of chiffons and Persian carpets.

It cut something else! :nod:

It could lop it in half, and I'd be fine. :lol::lol::lol:

[SteveMacD]

OTOH, the most recent idea I’ve drunkenly had for this era would have been Mick, John, Frampton, and Agnetha Fältskog (which really wouldn’t have been realistic, since she was going through her own Christine-esq reclusive period, fear of flying and all). It still would have been an iconic ‘70s band, just not from the same entity.

[jmn3]

It could lop it in half, and I'd be fine. :lol::lol::lol:

Well that took a turn 😳

So, uh, how about that 1995 show? Who did a weirder take on the Go Your Own Way solo, Mason or Campbell? Because I think they both sucked.

[Villavic]

OTOH, the most recent idea I’ve drunkenly had for this era would have been Mick, John, Frampton, and Agnetha Fältskog (which really wouldn’t have been realistic, since she was going through her own Christine-esq reclusive period, fear of flying and all). It still would have been an iconic ‘70s band, just not from the same entity.

She said in the Abba: The Winner Takes It All 1999 documentary, that she even didn't listen music. The silence was necessary she said.

[HomerMcvie]

Well that took a turn 😳

So, uh, how about that 1995 show? Who did a weirder take on the Go Your Own Way solo, Mason or Campbell? Because I think they both sucked.

Are you new here?:lol:

I'm not completely through it all yet. Currently listening to the weirdest Blue Letter I've ever heard, although I like it.

Okay, I just listened to GYOW. I didn't think it was bad at all? Why do you? Because he doesn't play Lindsey's solo?

I was shocked to hear Billy playing the guitar riff on Oh Well. I don't think I've ever heard him play ~ANY~ lead.

[jmn3]

Are you new here?:lol:

I'm not completely through it all yet. Currently listening to the weirdest Blue Letter I've ever heard, although I like it.

Okay, I just listened to GYOW. I didn't think it was bad at all? Why do you? Because he doesn't play Lindsey's solo?

I was shocked to hear Billy playing the guitar riff on Oh Well. I don't think I've ever heard him play ~ANY~ lead.

I am very new!!

I like how they did Blue Letter. I think it’s a perfect song for Bekka and Billy - it’s very early era Buckingham Nicks reminiscent.

Mason’s solo on GYOW just seems to ramble and doesn’t go anywhere. I’m guessing that yes, it’s because it’s not Lindsey’s solo and is a completely different take. It just seems to wander aimlessly right from the start. Campbell stuck to Lindsey’s version for the most part but it came off absolutely terrible. For what it’s worth, the 87-90 versions were solid and definitely created more of a rock anthem type ending to the show.

I had to go back and rewatch Oh Well and it is really strange that Billy would play lead. I had to go look at a Rick era version to make sure I wasn’t losing it and that Rick played the riff back then.