Mabel Normand family estate not happy with Stevie's song

[Sanne2]

Normand family estate comments on the Stevie Nicks interviews
Stephen Normand’s statement on the interviews/articles regarding Stevie Nicks:

My great aunt Mabel Normand (my grandfather’s sister) died of tuberculosis. Though I am grateful Ms Nicks found Mabel as her lifesaver, presently there isn’t documented proof of cocaine addiction. Whatever documentary Ms Nicks watched was/is based on hearsay. Any sanatorium stays aunt Mabel experienced were for tuberculosis and pneumonia. Mabel Normand’s septum was without a hole as Ms Nicks herself suffered. Rather than living on in the memory of the song written & named “Mabel Normand” by Stevie Nicks. My great aunt Mabel is immortalized in the rather more tasteful Broadway Musical score of MACK & MABEL by the legendary Jerry Herman. Mabel Normand I would agree with Ms Nicks was beautiful,talented, rich, sophisticated and the premiere comedienne of the Silent Screen. Mabel was also the only woman to direct Charlie Chaplin, had her own film company, one of the first women directors and over 100 films to her credit. Mabel Normand died 23 February 1930 at Pottenger’s Sanitorium of tuberculosis (as on her death certificate) aged 38. Stephen Normand - Archivist of the Mabel Normand Family Estate

http://mabelnormandofficial.tumblr.com/post/99253579780/normand-family-estate-comments-on-the-stevie-nicks#notes

[Rachelclaire]

Mabel Normand is my favorite song off the whole album, they should be unhappy at whomever made the documentary that Stevie watched, not Stevie. :shrug: xx

[Angie1980]

I Looove Mabel Normand too!!!!

I don't get why he refers to Stevie's hole in her septum since she is not in any way saying that Mabel Normand also had a hole in her nose???:shrug:

[TimeCastASpell]

I Looove Mabel Normand too!!!!

I don't get why he refers to Stevie's hole in her septum since she is not in any way saying that Mabel Normand also had a hole in her nose???:shrug:


Almost comes off as a passive aggressive dig at Stevie and her cocaine use. :(

Correct me if I'm wrong but I know in the not so distant past cocaine (and opium, and other drugs now known to be highly addictive and sense made illegal in most countries) were used medicinally in the US. I'm not sure of the time periods on this or anything but back in the 20s we were so busy demonizing alcohol, was it known at the time how dangerous cocaine could be? A quick google search turned up this (and a zillion other links I haven't yet read) http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/cocaine/a-short-history.html If its notable enough to warrant mention that cocaine was popular in the silent film era I don't think it's a stretch to say someone of Mabel Normands stature was likely surrounded by the stuff and was probably highly likely to have tried it at the very least. I mean not so far off from rock music of the 70s. I recently read Heart's memoir and Ann Wilson was adamant that she was never an addict but didnt deny doing drugs (and remarked that her and Nancy were very close to Stevie for awhile but couldn't keep up with her level of partying...) So I don't know. I can't say enough about the silent film era myself though I also adore the song. Not uncommon for descendants of people both famous and not to try to rewrite history since after all, must be nice to be known as a descendant of this female Hollywood pioneer and star, less nice to be known as the descendent of a coke addict, right? I've always admired how open Stevie has been about her drug history but at the same time she also doesn't have children or grandchildren to protect and this is the same woman claiming she can't write her own memoir because of the third wives of the men she's been with so... Maybe she herself wouldn't have been so open if her circumstances were different. So I guess I can sort of see both sides but I don't believe in censorship and Stevie has the right to her song.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. That and the lyrics as far as I know are obscure enough that if anything I suspect its recent interviews Stevie has done that they're more unhappy about than the song itself... Can't stop an artist from taking their own interpretations and saying what they will. Almost wonder if after doing interviews about the song, perhaps someone tried to contact someone from Mabel Normands estate? Maybe they never wouldve known otherwise... But either way there's the thought that all press is good press and maybe its stirring up more interest in Normand and that can't be a bad thing, right?

And on a mostly unrelated note, anyone else a Natalie Merchant fan? I find it interesting that her new album has a tribute to a silent film star too. The song is called "Lulu" and is about the actress Louise Brooks. I think I should see more silent movies if they're such inspirations to my favorite singers and songwriters. So again, I think the Normand estate shuls roll with the increased interest in the silent film era the song has helped create.

[markolas]

What a mincing little prisspot Miss Stephen is! She needs to stop throwing shade at Stevie and go back to her Hello Dolly! cast album. Mabel Normand's drug addiction is fairly well-established, no matter how much her family may want to deny it (much like Garbo's kin refuses to acknowledge the fact that she was a muff diver).

[TimeCastASpell]

What a mincing little prisspot Miss Stephen is! She needs to stop throwing shade at Stevie and go back to her Hello Dolly! cast album. Mabel Normand's drug addiction is fairly well-established, no matter how much her family may want to deny it (much like Garbo's kin refuses to acknowledge the fact that she was a muff diver).

:laugh: Tell us how you really feel. ;) :lol:

You kind of made my morning with this. Excellent phrasing too, I must say.

[BlueDenimLamp]

At the turn of the century (late 1800's / early 1900's) cocaine was prescribed for a variety of reasons...Ulysses. S. Grant who died in 1885 was prescribed "cocaine water" to ease the torturous pain of his throat cancer. Mabel was a "rock star" in her day and I don't think she was as squeaky clean as her relative implies. This just seems like a way for the estate to draw attention to Mabel's work and generate free publicity and increase revenue for the estate.

An excerpt from Who Killed William Desmond Taylor? (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/celebrity/william_d_taylor2/16.html)

"Mabel Turns to Drugs"
Sometime during these periods of upheaval, Normand turned to narcotics to help her cope and got hooked. She also became involved with William Desmond Taylor, either as a close friend or a girlfriend. There are some reports that Taylor may have used narcotics but it is certain that he never became addicted. He sometimes broke into tears over Normand's condition.

Concern over Normand's drug dependency may have led Taylor to violence. Deed of Death recounts his having gotten into a fistfight with a dealer who was making a delivery to Normand. Assistant U.S. Attorney Thomas Green said publicly that Taylor had asked the government's assistance in combating dope pushers who sold their goods to film people.

Some who thought Mabel Normand was having an affair with Taylor suspected her of killing him. They thought she might have been jealous of his relationships with other women. Others speculated that Mack Sennett, who was known to still be in love with Normand and always hopeful of rekindling their romance, had murdered Taylor.

Still others believe that a drug dealer Taylor had angered in his efforts to save her from addiction had killed him or hired a hit man to do it.

Normand's career faded after Taylor's death, partly because of the suspicions that followed it. Her addiction and emotional problems may also have contributed to her being out of work for a while.

Less than two years after Taylor was murdered, Normand found herself in the midst of yet another shooting scandal. She was at a New Year's celebration in 1924, hosted by the wealthy Courtland Dines. Normand's chauffeur, Joe Kelly, got into a fight with Dines and shot him. The latter suffered only superficial wounds and easily recovered. Kelly claimed he acted in self-defense and a jury believed him. The shooting further damaged Normand's reputation leading to the banning of her films in some states and boycotts in others.

She made a comeback in 1926. It was welcomed by Mary Pickford who, far from treating her fellow actress as a rival, took out an advertisement in Motion Picture World in which she said, "welcome back to the screen" to the dark-haired comedienne. The movie was called The Nickel Hopper. She made a few more movies but never got back to the top of her game.

Tuberculosis took Normand's life on February 22, 1930, at the age of 35.

[DauphineMarie]

What a mincing little prisspot Miss Stephen is! She needs to stop throwing shade at Stevie and go back to her Hello Dolly! cast album. Mabel Normand's drug addiction is fairly well-established, no matter how much her family may want to deny it (much like Garbo's kin refuses to acknowledge the fact that she was a muff diver).

:lol: :lol: I agree with you completely. I am very familiar with Stephen Normand, whom I listened to in an interview with Minta Durfee (Fatty Arbuckle's wife) and I am glad that he is trying to preserve Mabel's works. But either this is for publicity or pure spite.. Kinda strange why he would do this.

[mitzo]

What a mincing little prisspot Miss Stephen is! She needs to stop throwing shade at Stevie and go back to her Hello Dolly! cast album. Mabel Normand's drug addiction is fairly well-established, no matter how much her family may want to deny it (much like Garbo's kin refuses to acknowledge the fact that she was a muff diver).

Muff diver?! OMG...:eek::shocked:

[f2theox]

Judging from the fact that Mabel's cocaine addiction is listed in pretty much everything you read about her, but yet her family says there's no documented proof? What more do they want?! Next thing you know, they'll contact her from beyond the grave for that official confirmation. :lol:

[michelej1]

Yes, I do think it's for publicity, whether they actually think she used cocaine or not -- this gets him in the news. Michele

[rubylounge]

My grandmother who was 2 years older than Marilyn Monroe, introduced me to all the old movie stars and I used to look at her beautiful books with all the glamorous stars in them from this era. I never knew Mabel Normand. If it hadn't been for Stevie I would have never known she's existed. At least Stevie gave her some publicity, lol. I don't know why the family has to be crab apples about this.

[SpyNote]

Family members are often the last ones to know.

[Macfanforever]

I was wondering about Stephen Normand's thoughts on Stevie's song.

He was not to happy with some of those docus about his aunt.

He commented on this E channel's "Mysteries & Scandals" show about his aunt.Which is not the docu Stevie watched because it was produced in the late 1990's.

If you going to watch the video .Be warned with the long intervals of silence between segments.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/OgADGGNzUtU?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I blame it on the media.I hate to see what the media have to say about Stevie 50 years from now .I know I wont be here to see it.The media loves to dig up the dirt and crap about people to sell their newspapers ,magazines and TV programs.

I just cant stand seeing the rubbish on the covers of those rag mags in the cashier' s line.

[dontlookdown]

It's a great song. Arguably one of the strongest we've heard from her in a long time. It reminds
me of something on Dylan's Desire album.

Some people were born with a pole in their ass.

[Hawkeye]

Mable Normands family estate needs to as Sean and Gus from pshych would say suuuucccck it! This song is going to create more awareness of mable then ever before, we'll at least since her actual time.

[studyinscarlet]

Normand family estate comments on the Stevie Nicks interviews
Stephen Normand’s statement on the interviews/articles regarding Stevie Nicks:

My great aunt Mabel Normand (my grandfather’s sister) died of tuberculosis. Though I am grateful Ms Nicks found Mabel as her lifesaver, presently there isn’t documented proof of cocaine addiction. Whatever documentary Ms Nicks watched was/is based on hearsay. Any sanatorium stays aunt Mabel experienced were for tuberculosis and pneumonia. Mabel Normand’s septum was without a hole as Ms Nicks herself suffered. Rather than living on in the memory of the song written & named “Mabel Normand” by Stevie Nicks. My great aunt Mabel is immortalized in the rather more tasteful Broadway Musical score of MACK & MABEL by the legendary Jerry Herman. Mabel Normand I would agree with Ms Nicks was beautiful,talented, rich, sophisticated and the premiere comedienne of the Silent Screen. Mabel was also the only woman to direct Charlie Chaplin, had her own film company, one of the first women directors and over 100 films to her credit. Mabel Normand died 23 February 1930 at Pottenger’s Sanitorium of tuberculosis (as on her death certificate) aged 38. Stephen Normand - Archivist of the Mabel Normand Family Estate

http://mabelnormandofficial.tumblr.com/post/99253579780/normand-family-estate-comments-on-the-stevie-nicks#notes

And no one would know your aunt's name today except that Stevie Nicks has written a song about her. Nice potshot about the nose. Geez. That was not very classy. Does this person realize how beloved Stevie is and that she wouldn't write this song to hurt Mable Normand's family? Booooo! :shrug:

[BlueDenimLamp]

While researching early 1900's cocaine use look who's name pops up...Cocaine was legal until 1914...The Taylor murder (in the article below) is linked to Mabel Normand

Cocaine Arrives in the Twentieth Century (http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/cocaine-circa-1900-1990s.html)

Cocaine History: Circa 1900-1990s
Snorting Cocaine
After the Harrison Narcotic Act that identified cocaine as a forbidden substance in 1914, cocaine abuse was a rather quiet phenomenon for several decades, with just a few exceptions.

"Hollywood was one of those exceptions. In the early days of silent films, with screen stars who had just weeks before been shop girls and stage hands, and big money deals for studios and stars, drugs and immorality were rampant. Opiates, alcohol and cocaine were usually the drugs mentioned. The murder of William Desmond Taylor, a director for Paramount Studios, was said to perhaps have been related to the cocaine addiction of movie star and good friend Mabel Normand.

And there was beautiful young Olive Thomas, wife to star (and drug addict) Jack Pickford, who died from an apparent suicide in Paris. Jack and Olive were on their honeymoon. A US Army officer convicted of selling cocaine was supposed to have had her name on a list of regular customers.

Tallulah Bankhead was another well-known Hollywood cocaine addict, though she was more discreet about her habit. She has been quoted as saying, "Don't tell me cocaine is habit-forming. I've been taking it for seventeen years and I ought to know."

Many silent movies between 1910 and 1920 featured plots dealing with drug abuse, drug trafficking and drug enforcement activity. After the Taylor murder, studios began to watch their stars more closely and moralistic audiences, hearing of drug-induced debauchery from Hollywood gossip sources, began to avoid the movies. Illegal drug use in movies was banned in the 1930 Motion Picture Code. The movies might not portray drug abuse any longer, but the problem didn't go away. It just wasn't big news until the 1970s"

Mabel may not have been an addict ( was cocaine even considered addictive 100 years ago ) but her partying / drug use seems well known. Stevie is not portraying Mabel in a bad light either in the song or in interviews and I'm sure the additional attention Stevie is getting Mabel will result in increased revenue so why is the estate so bothered by this?

[PenguinHead]

Normand family estate comments on the Stevie Nicks interviews
Stephen Normand’s statement on the interviews/articles regarding Stevie Nicks:

My great aunt Mabel Normand (my grandfather’s sister) died of tuberculosis. Though I am grateful Ms Nicks found Mabel as her lifesaver, presently there isn’t documented proof of cocaine addiction. Whatever documentary Ms Nicks watched was/is based on hearsay. Any sanatorium stays aunt Mabel experienced were for tuberculosis and pneumonia. Mabel Normand’s septum was without a hole as Ms Nicks herself suffered. Rather than living on in the memory of the song written & named “Mabel Normand” by Stevie Nicks. My great aunt Mabel is immortalized in the rather more tasteful Broadway Musical score of MACK & MABEL by the legendary Jerry Herman. Mabel Normand I would agree with Ms Nicks was beautiful,talented, rich, sophisticated and the premiere comedienne of the Silent Screen. Mabel was also the only woman to direct Charlie Chaplin, had her own film company, one of the first women directors and over 100 films to her credit. Mabel Normand died 23 February 1930 at Pottenger’s Sanitorium of tuberculosis (as on her death certificate) aged 38. Stephen Normand - Archivist of the Mabel Normand Family Estate

http://mabelnormandofficial.tumblr.com/post/99253579780/normand-family-estate-comments-on-the-stevie-nicks#notes

I don't see Stephen Normand as being unhappy. He just wants to set the record straight about his Great Aunt. He is not putting any onus on Stevie's song. He is putting into question that the documented information that has informed both public opinion as well as Stevie's lyrics and perceptions isn't entirely true. He is trying to protect Mabel's legacy.

[secret love]

I don't really understand why so many Ledgies love Stevie's song Mabel Normand. I like the music, but the lyrics are nonsensical crap.

[welcomechris]

I don't really understand why so many Ledgies love Stevie's song Mabel Normand. I like the music, but the lyrics are nonsensical crap.

THANK YOU!

They are all just comparing it to the demo (The new version BLOWS the demo out of the water because of the music)

Shes barely singing, shes talking to fast! I'm trying to understand what she's saying but she is talking to fast just to keep up with the music

I like the ending, but it is not my favorite part of the album like it is for stevie

[tabruns]

THANK YOU!

They are all just comparing it to the demo (The new version BLOWS the demo out of the water because of the music)

Shes barely singing, shes talking to fast! I'm trying to understand what she's saying but she is talking to fast just to keep up with the music

I like the ending, but it is not my favorite part of the album like it is for stevie

They aren't "all" doing this because I never heard the demo and I still love the song.

[michelej1]

[U]
They are all just comparing it to the demo (The new version BLOWS the demo out of the water because of the music)



Well, comparing it to the demo doesn't make it any better, in my book. After the praise I heard/read here, I was running to hear the finished song thinking it would be a complete departure from the demo -- when WUT??

Michele

[michelej1]

And no one would know your aunt's name today except that Stevie Nicks has written a song about her.

Well, I would never say that. It depends on your age and how interested you are in movie history.

Michele

[studyinscarlet]

Well, I would never say that. It depends on your age and how interested you are in movie history.

Michele

Chances are people buying the Stevie album aren't remembering actresses from the 20's. If he's going to claim defamation, I mean, really? Sue the makers of the documentary she watched then. He just seems to be snarking at Stevie, when Stevie wasn't really being uncomplimentary to Ms. Normand. His thing is, 'How dare you!?" then goes on to insult Stevie.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Maybe the family is upset over the fact that now when you Google "Mabel Normand" the first thing that comes up is STEVIE NICKS

[Macfanforever]

I agree about these BS documentary's with crappy sourced research and people who dont know what they are talking about. Nobody want to do their homework anymore Again its the media with their twist and turns.Its like the outrage from the media in my neighborhood a couple years ago when my neighbor was setting a couple of firework in the woods. They were making up stories that he was making bombs.

Again in 50 years from now . I cant even imagine what will be said about Stevie.

[BlueDenimLamp]

I agree about these BS documentary's with crappy sourced research and people who dont know what they are talking about. Nobody want to do their homework anymore Again its the media with their twist and turns.Its like the outrage from the media in my neighborhood a couple years ago when my neighbor was setting a couple of firework in the woods. They were making up stories that he was making bombs.

Again in 50 years from now . I cant even imagine what will be said about Stevie.

As far as Stevie goes she readily admits things...As for the Normand family this stuff is all over the place are they going to fight the entire internet over something that happened 100 years ago? If this new interest in Mabel Normand results in possible development of a movie or cable show about her will the family turn it down because it might include allegations of her drug use?

[michelej1]

Chances are people buying the Stevie album aren't remembering actresses from the 20's.

Well, I'm younger than Stevie and I knew about Mabel Normand long before I knew about Nicks.

That is not to say that I think Stephen Normand's point is valid. I don't. I actually think his statement is designed to get publicity and stems more from that motive than from indignation.

I just am not going to credit Stevie for popularizing Mabel Normand any more than I'm going to credit her for Greta Garbo. And really when scandals are involved (Fatty Arbuckle's, for example) the star's legend lives on longer than their work does -- which is sad, I guess.

Michele

[PenguinHead]

I don't think the descendants of Mabel Normand are rallying against Stevie. One message from a very distant relative who felt the need to clarify his perspective doesn't amount to anything.

Stevie's song just stirs up a history of thought/ documentation/media, that portray aspects of Mabel's life the family would rather not address.

In a way, his statement has a positive side: it brings Mabel back into public consciousness, and provides Stevie more exposure.

Some fans will dislike the song. Some fans will love it. There is no indifference. Congratulations Stevie! This just is more confirmation that you are a genuine artist.

Side note: Check out the infamous propaganda film Reefer Madness from the 1930s. ( It's on DVD in black and white, and a more recent colorized version!) It portrays pot smokers as the bane of society -- crooks and murders-- whose fate is death and destruction. I recommend you smoke some of that "demon" weed before you watch it; you will get a lot laughs out of it.

[TimeCastASpell]

Some fans will dislike the song. Some fans will love it. There is no indifference. Congratulations Stevie! This just is more confirmation that you are a genuine artist.


Amen to that!

[DauphineMarie]

I don't think the descendants of Mabel Normand are rallying against Stevie. One message from a very distant relative who felt the need to clarify his perspective doesn't amount to anything.

Stevie's song just stirs up a history of thought/ documentation/media, that portray aspects of Mabel's life the family would rather not address.

In a way, his statement has a positive side: it brings Mabel back into public consciousness, and provides Stevie more exposure.

Some fans will dislike the song. Some fans will love it. There is no indifference. Congratulations Stevie! This just is more confirmation that you are a genuine artist.

Side note: Check out the infamous propaganda film Reefer Madness from the 1930s. ( It's on DVD in black and white, and a more recent colorized version!) It portrays pot smokers as the bane of society -- crooks and murders-- whose fate is death and destruction. I recommend you smoke some of that "demon" weed before you watch it; you will get a lot laughs out of it.

Many a time, my friend, many a time :lol: