Hard Advice

[Jondalar]

You can imagine my surprise when I discovered this song and loved it. It's really good. One of my favorite on the album. I wasn't expecting another lesson from Tom to turn into this. You all are going to like this one.

[sorcerer999]

Agreed!!! I do believe this might be my favorite track off this record. Too soon to judge though, but it is an amazing track.

[APerfectLie]

Agreed!!! I do believe this might be my favorite track off this record. Too soon to judge though, but it is an amazing track.

Said I was going to sleep, but have to keep listening to this song on repeat. Ugh so good!

[Jondalar]

Hard Advice is a definite single!

[OooMissionary]

Can't wait to hear it. The snippet on Instagram even gets stuck in my head...

[joe68]

Can you send me a message too?! 😜

[BombaySapphire3]

Hard Advice is probably the most unexpected surprise of the album..It is a great song with a strong and memorable melody..How did this get passed over for the much weaker TMMS on TISL:shrug:Awesome that it has found a home.

[f2theox]

This is one of the songs I am most excited to hear! I can't wait!

[welcomechris]

I love this song

Found this on the copyright site

Type of Work: Music
Registration Number / Date: PAu002213942 / 1997-05-21
Title: Hard advice.
Description: Sound cassette + lyrics sheets.
Notes: Words & music.
Copyright Claimant: Stephanie Nicks
Date of Creation: 1995
Names: Nicks, Stephanie

[On Ice]

The song is beautiful and the most humbling song she would write that tells the story of writer's block. Can only imagine what it felt like for her to feel that she'd lost her touch. I think she has a real winner on her hands here and mainstream radio would be truly amiss if they don't pick this tune up and play it often.

[dontlookdown]

Meh.
My least favorite track so far.
Sounds like mainstream "country" to me.

But Mabel makes up for it.
Looking forward to hearing the whole album!

[gypsy333]

I think it is a pretty great track...but I also think that Mabel Normand is WOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Artemis]

I LOVE this song, in my head it replaces That Made Me Stronger - "this is all wrong / go write some real songs" is such a better lyric than TMMS. And only Stevie Nicks could sing "don't buy that doll" so passionately :laugh:

[Bandon]

I always wonder wtf ...who pics the lead singles? They must think its okay to push nice but bland tracks like Every Day and The Dealer and in doing so will reach the widest audience. Starshine and Lady are good lead tracks, but Hard Advice as a mid temp single track is great... so catchy!

[Christopher]

I always wonder wtf ...who pics the lead singles? They must think its okay to push nice but bland tracks like Every Day and The Dealer and in doing so will reach the widest audience. Starshine and Lady are good lead tracks, but Hard Advice as a mid temp single track is great... so catchy!

I agree. "Hard Advice" should have been the first taste of 24 Karat Gold, instead of "The Dealer" But hey, what do we know. :shrug:
This song makes me wonder about the quirky line "Don't buy that doll" and Stevie's recent comment from her interview in Uncut Magazine

"Somebody said at one point, "If you took the last line out of this chorus it would be so much more of a hit record," and I just flat out said in front of the record company and everybody else: "I'm not trying to make a hit record here, I"m trying to make a great record." Hit records don't even sell anymore, anyway. Records don't sell anymore." ;)

I'm beginning to believe she is referring to "Hard Advice." I love that kooky lyric. I think it hammers the nail to the bone of the song. And only Stevie. Right! :thumbsup:

[tabruns]

Actually I was thinking that the "take the last line out of the chorus" remark might refer to "Starshine" and the line being "playing with fire was..."

[bombaysaffires]

Meh.


yep. Kooky Stevie, and not in a good way "don't buy that doll" is just…. wtf. Hilarious.

[OooMissionary]

Actually I was thinking that the "take the last line out of the chorus" remark might refer to "Starshine" and the line being "playing with fire was..."

But that is what I love about Stevie... She doesn't give a ****. Neither song should be altered in any way!

[michelej1]

So, what guy is so famous that there are life size paper dolls (or posters) of him in music stores? I can think of three.

Elvis
Michael Jackson
Justin Bieber

Which one of those three guys do you think Stevie is in love with?

Also, Tom's advice is crummy. "I can't forget my old love. I can't move on emotionally, even though I've tried. What can I do, Tom?"

"Turn off the radio and stay out of record stores."

Uh, ok.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

So, what guy is so famous that there are life size paper dolls (or posters) of him in music stores? I can think of three.

Elvis
Michael Jackson
Justin Bieber

Which one of those three guys do you think Stevie is in love with?

Also, Tom's advice is crummy. "I can't forget my old love. I can't move on emotionally, even though I've tried. What can I do, Tom?"

"Turn off the radio and stay out of record stores."

Uh, ok.

Michele

hahahahaa that's funny!!

I was wondering too…. I thought Lindsey? Nope, don't think so at that point in time. Joe? Don't think so. Then I thought…. Tom?? And listened to it again… and wondered if it was about her being stuck on Tom still… but, wtf knows:shrug:

[Jondalar]

yep. Kooky Stevie, and not in a good way "don't buy that doll" is just…. wtf. Hilarious.

Is that a reference to drugs? Valley of the Dolls was about pill popping hoes. Dolls in that movie were pills.

[michelej1]

hahahahaa that's funny!!

I was wondering too…. I thought Lindsey? Nope, don't think so at that point in time. Joe? Don't think so. Then I thought…. Tom?? And listened to it again… and wondered if it was about her being stuck on Tom still… but, wtf knows:shrug:

Right, the contenders are Joe and Tom and I think it is Tom. Tom is the friend giving hard advice, but it may have been about her feelings for him.

Regarding Joe, I shouldn't take the song so literally, not every word has to be based on real life, but she says neither she nor her girlfriends can give the guy up. So, I'm thinking it would be someone that not only has a certain level of fame, but is also widely thought of as being attractive.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Right, the contenders are Joe and Tom and I think it is Tom. Tom is the friend giving hard advice, but it may have been about her feelings for him.

Michele

great minds think alike ;)

[nicole21290]

Right, the contenders are Joe and Tom and I think it is Tom. Tom is the friend giving hard advice, but it may have been about her feelings for him.

Michele

Interestingly, she’s only talked about this song regarding WHO gave her hard advice (Tom Petty) not what the hard advice was about. Or rather, WHO the hard advice was about.

"Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you”

So, the person she can’t get away from is a musician. The next stanza tells us there’s a cut-out of him in a record store, and that her friends can’t let him go either, even thought ‘it’ was over ages ago. I don’t exactly think this musician is going to be someone like Joe; I really can’t imagine her friends in 1995 or so still having any emotional investment in that and him, lol. The next stanza is crucial because in her commentary she claims this is about Tom…

"Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Follows me down
And reminds me”

Okay, I can see how this can be interpreted as being as Tom. After all, she’s swapped from ‘you’ to ‘him. HOWEVER, the sound of his voice follows her down!? I’m sorry but that’s a blatant callback to Silver Springs and there’s no chance it isn’t deliberate. I seriously doubt she’s talking about Tom here. Especially as the very next stanza, discussing the man who is GIVING the advice, begins “ANOTHER FAMOUS FRIEND TOLD ME”. Unless my grasp of basic comprehension is completely gone or Stevie’s REALLY thrown out the logical narrative structure, that would suggest she’s talking about two different famous friends in those two stanzas. For those people who use Stevie’s oft-used ‘Lindsey’s not my friend!’ as a reason for the above stanza not being about him, that’s rubbish. In 2011 she thanked him for his years of friendship and in 2011 she even called him her ‘oldest, dearest friend’.

Anyway, Tom is telling her to let ‘him’ go. I really do think there’s no one else this ‘him’ could be bar Lindsey, tbh. “The pain’s gone on too long”?! No kidding…

I find the NEW lyrics to I Don't Care even more interesting, to be fair. There's lyrical repetition from Sara AND Without You in that one...

[bombaysaffires]

Interestingly, she’s only talked about this song regarding WHO gave her hard advice (Tom Petty) not what the hard advice was about. Or rather, WHO the hard advice was about.

"Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you”

So, the person she can’t get away from is a musician. The next stanza tells us there’s a cut-out of him in a record store, and that her friends can’t let him go either, even thought ‘it’ was over ages ago. I don’t exactly think this musician is going to be someone like Joe; I really can’t imagine her friends in 1995 or so still having any emotional investment in that and him, lol. The next stanza is crucial because in her commentary she claims this is about Tom…

"Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Follows me down
And reminds me”

Okay, I can see how this can be interpreted as being as Tom. After all, she’s swapped from ‘you’ to ‘him. HOWEVER, the sound of his voice follows her down!? I’m sorry but that’s a blatant callback to Silver Springs and there’s no chance it isn’t deliberate. I seriously doubt she’s talking about Tom here. Especially as the very next stanza, discussing the man who is GIVING the advice, begins “ANOTHER FAMOUS FRIEND TOLD ME”. Unless my grasp of basic comprehension is completely gone or Stevie’s REALLY thrown out the logical narrative structure, that would suggest she’s talking about two different famous friends in those two stanzas. For those people who use Stevie’s oft-used ‘Lindsey’s not my friend!’ as a reason for the above stanza not being about him, that’s rubbish. In 2011 she thanked him for his years of friendship and in 2011 she even called him her ‘oldest, dearest friend’.

Anyway, Tom is telling her to let ‘him’ go. I really do think there’s no one else this ‘him’ could be bar Lindsey, tbh. “The pain’s gone on too long”?! No kidding…

I find the NEW lyrics to I Don't Care even more interesting, to be fair. There's lyrical repetition from Sara AND Without You in that one...

I don't see any cardboard cutouts of Lindsey being in stores in 1995.

so you think the second 'famous friend' is….who exactly? I got lost there.

[michelej1]

I don't see any cardboard cutouts of Lindsey being in stores in 1995.



Yeah, I don't see there being any card out cutouts of Lindsey being in stores EVER.

But that's okay, Linds, because there are a thousand paper dolls of you in my heart.

I definitely do not think the "follow you down" is related to Silver Springs. I think she's just re-using words, especially since the twist is her words were going to follow Lindsey down in SS. In Hard Advice, the singer's words are following HER down. I know Lindsey's songs are played on the radio (as he says in the beautiful Gone Too Far), but I don't think his songs haunt Stevie the way the man in Hard Advice's do.

However, in Starshine, I do think the price they have to pay is the same price they are paying in Secret Love, I do find that re-use of lyrics to be about the same relationship.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Yeah, I don't see there being any card out cutouts of Lindsey being in stores EVER.

But that's okay, Linds, because there are a thousand paper dolls of you in my heart.

I definitely do not think the "follow you down" is related to Silver Springs. I think she's just re-using words, especially since the twist is her words were going to follow Lindsey down in SS. In Hard Advice, the singer's words are following HER down. I know Lindsey's songs are played on the radio (as he says in the beautiful Gone Too Far), but I don't think his songs haunt Stevie the way the man in Hard Advice's do.

However, in Starshine, I do think the price they have to pay is the same price they are paying in Secret Love, I do find that re-use of lyrics to be about the same relationship.

Michele


My initial reaction to the song was that is was about Joe… about Tom telling her look, it was over long ago and you need to let him go, this has dragged on too long. But the cardboard cutout thing, the songs always on the radio, the "Sometime's Tom's my best friend/even when he's not around" which is according her video what her lyrics originally were followed immediately by "the sound of his voice follows me down and reminds me". The line aobut him telling her "this is wrong"… I dunno. It just all starts sounding to me like she was still hung up on Tom.:shrug:

[michelej1]

My initial reaction to the song was that is was about Joe… about Tom telling her look, it was over long ago and you need to let him go, this has dragged on too long. But the cardboard cutout thing, the songs always on the radio, the "Sometime's Tom's my best friend/even when he's not around" which is according her video what her lyrics originally were followed immediately by "the sound of his voice follows me down and reminds me". The line aobut him telling her "this is wrong"… I dunno. It just all starts sounding to me like she was still hung up on Tom.:shrug:

Yes. I think so. I mean, she's never acknowledged a romantic relationship with Tom, but I think there was one, more serious on her part than on his, of course.

The main clue about the guy in this song is that he is famous. He's an icon. He's someone that females swoon over. That's one thing that makes it harder for Stevie to get over him, because she sees him everywhere. It's someone with a Bruce Springsteen status and Tom has had that at a point in his career.

Michele

[Jondalar]

Yes. I think so. I mean, she's never acknowledged a romantic relationship with Tom, but I think there was one, more serious on her part than on his, of course.

The main clue about the guy in this song is that he is famous. He's an icon. He's someone that females swoon over. That's one thing that makes it harder for Stevie to get over him, because she sees him everywhere. It's someone with a Bruce Springsteen status and Tom has had that at a point in his career.

Michele

I don't think Tom had an affair with Stevie . I think he loves his wife and has high morals. I think she is like a sister to him. They are a little alike -- they fight hard for themselves. I don't think he probably met a woman quite like her. He said she is the only person who ever fought her way into his life.

[nicole21290]

Yeah, I don't see there being any card out cutouts of Lindsey being in stores EVER.

But that's okay, Linds, because there are a thousand paper dolls of you in my heart.

I definitely do not think the "follow you down" is related to Silver Springs. I think she's just re-using words, especially since the twist is her words were going to follow Lindsey down in SS. In Hard Advice, the singer's words are following HER down. I know Lindsey's songs are played on the radio (as he says in the beautiful Gone Too Far), but I don't think his songs haunt Stevie the way the man in Hard Advice's do.

However, in Starshine, I do think the price they have to pay is the same price they are paying in Secret Love, I do find that re-use of lyrics to be about the same relationship.

Michele

"She does still hear him
All night long
The same song over and over
It heals her heart
No voice of a stranger
Could play that part
It broke her heart"

Oh, they both talk about a price on a quite regular basis, really. And obviously, saving, which is also in Starshine.

And the price that we paid for a love we couldn’t hold (Say Goodbye)

Everyone pays a price for these dreams (Say We’ll Meet Again)

And every life has its price (Shut Us Down)

Sometimes the price is a little too much (Down On Rodeo)

Someone’s going to have to pay the price (Wait For You)

What price glory (How Still My Love)

But I paid a price for it… (Doing The Best I Can)

We’re already paying the price (Secret Love)

No matter what the price, I knew I’d found the prize (Impossible Task)

If it is ALL about Tom, if he is giving her advice about giving him (Tom) up? Yeah, it doesn't quite work for me. And if it's the case, her narrative structure seriously is WAY worse than I thought it was. One verse she's talking about a man's voice following her down and the very next verse is about 'another famous friend' giving her advice about having to give someone up who she's hearing on the radio, etc. The 'another' would strongly suggest the person giving advice and the person about whom the advice is about are different. *shrugs*

[bombaysaffires]

"She does still hear him
All night long
The same song over and over
It heals her heart
No voice of a stranger
Could play that part
It broke her heart"

Oh, they both talk about a price on a quite regular basis, really. And obviously, saving, which is also in Starshine.

And the price that we paid for a love we couldn’t hold (Say Goodbye)

Everyone pays a price for these dreams (Say We’ll Meet Again)

And every life has its price (Shut Us Down)

Sometimes the price is a little too much (Down On Rodeo)

Someone’s going to have to pay the price (Wait For You)

What price glory (How Still My Love)

But I paid a price for it… (Doing The Best I Can)

We’re already paying the price (Secret Love)

No matter what the price, I knew I’d found the prize (Impossible Task)

If it is ALL about Tom, if he is giving her advice about giving him (Tom) up? Yeah, it doesn't quite work for me. And if it's the case, her narrative structure seriously is WAY worse than I thought it was. One verse she's talking about a man's voice following her down and the very next verse is about 'another famous friend' giving her advice about having to give someone up who she's hearing on the radio, etc. The 'another' would strongly suggest the person giving advice and the person about whom the advice is about are different. *shrugs*

See I hear that as another famous friend telling her she needs to give Tom up. Love ends. Get over it.

And Tom elsewhere is telling her he's over it, she needs to get over it.

I don;t think every time she says "paying a price" it's about Lindsey. I don't think Starshine is about him. I don't think Secret Love is about him. And the price she paid in Doing the Best That I Can… well that whole song has always seemed about drugs to me and the price she paid for doing them.:shrug:

As for Tom's wife, (I think someone else brought that up) he divorced her. He's onto a new wife these days.

[nicole21290]

See I hear that as another famous friend telling her she needs to give Tom up. Love ends. Get over it.

And Tom elsewhere is telling her he's over it, she needs to get over it.

I don;t think every time she says "paying a price" it's about Lindsey. I don't think Starshine is about him. I don't think Secret Love is about him. And the price she paid in Doing the Best That I Can… well that whole song has always seemed about drugs to me and the price she paid for doing them.:shrug:

As for Tom's wife, (I think someone else brought that up) he divorced her. He's onto a new wife these days.

Yes, I can see that view. I just really don't think her relationship with Tom was ever a romantic one, to be honest, and the relationship she has to give up seems to be of that nature. Was she, in 1995, still in actual pain, unable to let go of, trying but unable to get away from Tom and her love for him? I don't know. It doesn't quite gel with how I view them. I mean, I easily could be wrong. Voting for an amalgam song here, lol.

Oh, I don't either! Just listing some examples of the 'price' repetition. I think Lindsey uses it more in that context than she does. I DO think Starshine is about him but I don't think Secret Love is.

[bombaysaffires]

Yes, I can see that view. I just really don't think her relationship with Tom was ever a romantic one, to be honest, and the relationship she has to give up seems to be of that nature. Was she, in 1995, still in actual pain, unable to let go of, trying but unable to get away from Tom and her love for him? I don't know. It doesn't quite gel with how I view them. I mean, I easily could be wrong. Voting for an amalgam song here, lol.

Oh, I don't either! Just listing some examples of the 'price' repetition. I think Lindsey uses it more in that context than she does. I DO think Starshine is about him but I don't think Secret Love is.

just highlights part of the allure of her lyrics…. she leaves them (intentionally or not, I tend to think not) ambiguous enough that you can't really be sure what the heck they mean and that leads to endless hours of fun trying to decipher them. :shocked:

[michelej1]

I don;t think every time she says "paying a price" it's about Lindsey. I don't think Starshine is about him. I don't think Secret Love is about him. And the price she paid in Doing the Best That I Can… well that whole song has always seemed about drugs to me and the price she paid for doing them.:shrug:


I think Secret Love is confirmed as not being about him, but I think Secret Love and Starshine are about the same person and no I don't think every song with the word "price" in it is about that relationship. I just think that Secret Love and Starshine go together.

Michele

[michelej1]

See I hear that as another famous friend telling her she needs to give Tom up. Love ends. Get over it.



So, who's the other famous friend?

Michele

[michelej1]

I don't think Tom had an affair with Stevie . I think he loves his wife and has high morals. I think she is like a sister to him. They are a little alike -- they fight hard for themselves. I don't think he probably met a woman quite like her. He said she is the only person who ever fought her way into his life.

I don't think Tom was faithful to Jane. I think he was with other people, Stevie just being one of them.

Michele

[michelej1]

If it is ALL about Tom, if he is giving her advice about giving him (Tom) up?

I don't think every price song is about Tom Petty.

[michelej1]

Now, of course The Star is a tabloid full of lies (used to get me pretty excited as a kid to read all of the times that Sonny and Cher were supposedly going to remarry, before I learned that The Star had little truth in it!), but I think this article is funny from October 1996.



Singer Stevie Nicks has shed a massive 60 pounds and landed rocker Tom Petty --- for the second time.

Petty --- who's riding high on the charts again with his new album She's the One, the sound track from the hit movie --- filed for divorce on September 9 from wife of 21 years, Linda, citing irreconcilable differences.

Now he's back with Fleetwood Mac's Stevie --- and they're finding love is definitely better the second time around. The pair were first linked in the early '80s, shortly after Nicks divorced her second husband.

Now, Petty has been separated from his wife Linda since January and, according to friends, he and Stevie have been burning up the phone lines ever since and getting together whenever they can. "Stevie and Tom collaborated on several of her solo albums and that's how they became so close," says a source.

Now, more than 10 years on, Nicks has slimmed down and sobered up and the rock couple is making beautiful music together. "Stevie has lost a lot of weight and she looks really terrific," says a source. "She's feeling good about herself and it shows."

According to sources close to the couple, one of the reasons Nicks and Petty have rekindled their love is their similar life experiences. "Both Tom and Stevie have been in the music business forever so they know the perils of being on the road constantly," says a source. And Nicks and Petty have something else in common as well --- they've both kicked longtime addictions.

"Stevie had been in rehab for alcohol and cocaine addiction and Tom kicked his booze habit in 1987 for good."

The rocking duo recently went public with their relationship at a Hollywood bash close pal Ringo Starr threw for his wife Barbara Bach's birthday.

Phoenix-born Nicks has even put her Paradise Valley, Ariz., home up for sale and decided to settle in a spacious Los Angeles mansion where she can be closer to her rocker lover.

Petty's marital split and his romantic reunion with blonde-haired beauty Nicks comes as no surprise to those who know the couple. "Tom and his wife Jane had a really tough go of it. They've separated a couple of times over the years but they always got it back together. I guess that things just couldn't be repaired this time." Petty himself is brutally honest when he talks about the state of his 21-year marriage (the couple have two daughters, Adria, 21, and 14-year-old Anna).

"We have taken some shrapnel," he said. "We do walk with a slight limp."

[bombaysaffires]

So, who's the other famous friend?

Michele


I dunno, I was wondering that myself. Reminds me of her line in Two Kinds of Love "well I talked to my famous friend last night". She has so many……

But, who would know about her hang up over Tom and tell her to give it up already? Well, partly depends on how you define "famous". Famous as in famous musicians? Mike Campbell? Benmont Tench?

If "famous" means like headliners, dunno.. who are her headliner superstar friends… Don? Bob Dylan? Rod Stewart? Joe? Anyone else in the Eagles? Sheryl Crow?

Other famous female friends…. Courtney Love? Bonnie Raitt? Tai Babilonia?

Does she know other famous people? Politicians? Actors? Nobel laureats??

Dunno. None of those really seem to fit, to me. Maybe Don??

[bombaysaffires]

Now, of course The Star is a tabloid full of lies (used to get me pretty excited as a kid to read all of the times that Sonny and Cher were supposedly going to remarry, before I learned that The Star had little truth in it!), but I think this article is funny from October 1996.



Singer Stevie Nicks has shed a massive 60 pounds and landed rocker Tom Petty --- for the second time.

Petty --- who's riding high on the charts again with his new album She's the One, the sound track from the hit movie --- filed for divorce on September 9 from wife of 21 years, Linda, citing irreconcilable differences.

Now he's back with Fleetwood Mac's Stevie --- and they're finding love is definitely better the second time around. The pair were first linked in the early '80s, shortly after Nicks divorced her second husband.

Now, Petty has been separated from his wife Linda since January and, according to friends, he and Stevie have been burning up the phone lines ever since and getting together whenever they can. "Stevie and Tom collaborated on several of her solo albums and that's how they became so close," says a source.

Now, more than 10 years on, Nicks has slimmed down and sobered up and the rock couple is making beautiful music together. "Stevie has lost a lot of weight and she looks really terrific," says a source. "She's feeling good about herself and it shows."

According to sources close to the couple, one of the reasons Nicks and Petty have rekindled their love is their similar life experiences. "Both Tom and Stevie have been in the music business forever so they know the perils of being on the road constantly," says a source. And Nicks and Petty have something else in common as well --- they've both kicked longtime addictions.

"Stevie had been in rehab for alcohol and cocaine addiction and Tom kicked his booze habit in 1987 for good."

The rocking duo recently went public with their relationship at a Hollywood bash close pal Ringo Starr threw for his wife Barbara Bach's birthday.

Phoenix-born Nicks has even put her Paradise Valley, Ariz., home up for sale and decided to settle in a spacious Los Angeles mansion where she can be closer to her rocker lover.

Petty's marital split and his romantic reunion with blonde-haired beauty Nicks comes as no surprise to those who know the couple. "Tom and his wife Jane had a really tough go of it. They've separated a couple of times over the years but they always got it back together. I guess that things just couldn't be repaired this time." Petty himself is brutally honest when he talks about the state of his 21-year marriage (the couple have two daughters, Adria, 21, and 14-year-old Anna).

"We have taken some shrapnel," he said. "We do walk with a slight limp."

that's hilarious! They have a freaking quote of from someone who "knows" them getting Jane's name right, but then keep calling her Linda. That's the best!

[goldenground]

In her commentary, Stevie talks about how when she asks for Tom's advice/opinion he doesn't beat around the bush and can come off as harsh. This makes me think Tom is most definitely the person (famous friend) telling Stevie to get over this man. It's not even a relationship anymore. It's been dead for years. GET OVER IT. Thanks, Tom. On who this man is? My bet is Joe Walsh. Gross, I know, but Stevie has said that this is the one relationship that she's never gotten over, and that for the longest time she just thought "Well, that's it there's nothing left for me".

[michelej1]

Maybe Don??

Yes, I think Don is the most famous and later in her life, Sheryl Crow. She and Sheryl once had a relationship where she confided things in Sheryl a lot. Not so much anymore.

Michele

[michelej1]

Also, we had already talked about Tom asking Stevie not to come and see him in San Francisco because of the rumors. Whether true or not, I think his wife got paranoid at the end of their marriage and I have always thought these Petty lyrics might have been about Stevie:

"Accused of Love"

You speak to me in natural harmony
Like we both grew up with nothin'
And I can't believe my own memory
But it one day could be coming

And I don't even know the wrong I've done
And I don't even care anymore
All I know is I believe that you and me
Forever will stand accused of love

Watched the sun go down behind London Town
I was burnt, stood up in Mayfair
I caught a train, black car through the rain
From the trust that hung betrayed there

And I don't even know the wrong I've done
And I don't even care anymore
All I know is I believe that you and me
Forever will stand accused of love

Well, the attorney grins, the witness is drug in
With his face half hid in shadow
Sworn to God and State the truth arrives too late
And defense goes out the window

And we don't even know the wrong we've done
And we don't even care anymore
All I know is I believe that you and me
Forever will stand accused of love
Will stand accused of love
Will stand accused of love

[Johnny Stew]

On who this man is? My bet is Joe Walsh.

I have a feeling she's talking about Joe, or maybe Don Henley. She wrote the song in 1995. The Eagles' 'Hell Freezes Over' was released in November of '94 and was a huge hit with massive promotion. If she were to walk in to a record store that year and see a "life-size paper doll" (a standee or promo poster) of an ex-lover, it's highly unlikely that it would be Lindsey, but rather one of her Eagles suitors.

[Jondalar]

Can someone please post the lyrics to this song?

[bombaysaffires]

Yes, I think Don is the most famous and later in her life, Sheryl Crow. She and Sheryl once had a relationship where she confided things in Sheryl a lot. Not so much anymore.

Michele

well Sheryl went and had those pesky kids. And you know, once you have kids you don't have any more hit records. ;)

[michelej1]

I have a feeling she's talking about Joe, or maybe Don Henley. She wrote the song in 1995. The Eagles' 'Hell Freezes Over' was released in November of '94 and was a huge hit with massive promotion.

I don't think she ever had any trouble getting over Don Henley.

Michele

[michelej1]

Can someone please post the lyrics to this song?

I thought you had the record though. Michele

[Johnny Stew]

I don't think she ever had any trouble getting over Don Henley.

While I largely agree with that, I know from experience that sometimes we find ourselves preoccupied with thoughts of someone we were certain we had gotten over. And I can definitely imagine that hearing an ex-lover's voice on the radio could have that effect.

So even though Joe seems the far likelier candidate, I'm not ruling Don out completely.

[Jondalar]

I thought you had the record though. Michele

I have the vinyl with no record player, so not opening it. The vinyl could be worth some cash later. Debating...

[goldenground]

Can someone please post the lyrics to this song?

HARD ADVICE - Stevie Nicks

Sometimes late at night
I turn on the radio
Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you

Saw a life size paper doll of you
In a record store
My friends as well as me
Can’t seem to let you go
It was finished long ago

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

Another famous friend told me
Love does end
Make a clean break
He didn’t talk about heartache
You have to let him go
Oh oh

Get over it
Remember how it was
Before our infamous pasts had begun
You have to let him go
He gives such hard advice, oh

He gives such hard advice
He says don’t think twice
Turn off the radio
It was finished long ago
Go write some real songs
This is all wrong

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

You have to get over this
The pain’s gone on too long
Go and write some real songs
Stay out of music stores
Don’t buy that doll

Sometimes, sometimes

Turn off that radio

Turn off that radio
Don’t buy that doll
Don’t buy that doll

[Jondalar]

HARD ADVICE - Stevie Nicks

Sometimes late at night
I turn on the radio
Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you

Saw a life size paper doll of you
In a record store
My friends as well as me
Can’t seem to let you go
It was finished long ago

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

Another famous friend told me
Love does end
Make a clean break
He didn’t talk about heartache
You have to let him go
Oh oh

Get over it
Remember how it was
Before our infamous pasts had begun
You have to let him go
He gives such hard advice, oh

He gives such hard advice
He says don’t think twice
Turn off the radio
It was finished long ago
Go write some real songs
This is all wrong

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

You have to get over this
The pain’s gone on too long
Go and write some real songs
Stay out of music stores
Don’t buy that doll

Sometimes, sometimes

Turn off that radio

Turn off that radio
Don’t buy that doll
Don’t buy that doll

Thank you for posting the lyrics. This song is about Lindsey Buckingham and Tom Petty. It's pretty obvious she is piecing thoughts together about two people.

[bombaysaffires]

Thank you for posting the lyrics. This song is about Lindsey Buckingham and Tom Petty. It's pretty obvious she is piecing thoughts together about two people.

so who's who in the song?

[Jondalar]

so who's who in the song?

Sometimes late at night
I turn on the radio
Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you

Saw a life size paper doll of you
In a record store
My friends as well as me
Can’t seem to let you go
It was finished long ago

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

Tom

Love does end
Make a clean break
He didn’t talk about heartache
You have to let him go
Oh oh

Get over it
Remember how it was
Before our infamous pasts had begun
You have to let him go

this is really about Lindsey

[michelej1]

The line:

My friends as well as me
Can’t seem to let you go

Makes me wonder who was she into that her friends wanted her to keep around as well?

I don't think it's about Joe, but I do remember that interview where she described how Joe knew everyone in her crew. Her musicians were his friends, so when he came around the studio it could get very disruptive, because he would distract everyone else and socialize with them, when Stevie was trying to get work done.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

all these lyrics are making me suddenly think of I Miss You from TISL and how similar some of those lyrics are to the spirit of Hard Advice, or to the way she talked about Tom in the video commentary for Hard Advice-- that even when she doesn't see him his voice follows her down (time and distance never matter) and her having all these questions about love and pain and strained relationships and him being able to set her straight.:shrug:


When I think about you
I think about how much I
Can't wait to hear the sound
Of your laughter
Time and distance never matter

Well I miss you now
I have so many questions
About love and about pain
About strained relationships
About fame as only he could explain it to me

[nicole21290]

well Sheryl went and had those pesky kids. And you know, once you have kids you don't have any more hit records. ;)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/ididnot_zpsf31c79f2.gif

[PenguinHead]

I agree. "Hard Advice" should have been the first taste of 24 Karat Gold, instead of "The Dealer" But hey, what do we know. :shrug:
This song makes me wonder about the quirky line "Don't buy that doll" and Stevie's recent comment from her interview in Uncut Magazine
:

Is the issue of Uncut worth getting for the article? Who is featured on the cover?

[tabruns]

I agree with Jondalar that this song is about Lindsey and Tom, but not necessarily the lines that he attributes to each. I think its about feelings for Lindsey, and advice from Tom, so:

Sometimes late at night
I turn on the radio
Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you

Saw a life size paper doll of you
In a record store
My friends as well as me
Can’t seem to let you go
It was finished long ago

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

--the above stanzas all about Lindsey--

Another famous friend told me
Love does end
Make a clean break
He didn’t talk about heartache
You have to let him go
Oh oh

Get over it
Remember how it was
Before our infamous pasts had begun
You have to let him go
He gives such hard advice, oh

He gives such hard advice
He says don’t think twice
Turn off the radio
It was finished long ago
Go write some real songs
This is all wrong

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

You have to get over this
The pain’s gone on too long
Go and write some real songs
Stay out of music stores
Don’t buy that doll

--the above stanzas about the advice Tom was giving her about finally letting go of Lindsey--

I think it's pretty clear that the first "sometimes he's my best friend" refers to Lindsey while the second time that verse rolls around she's now referring to Tom, because she has referred to both of them from time to time as being a "best friend".

Also, I think the "sound of his voice, well it follows me down" is a *great* lyrical twist on "I'll follow you down till the sound of my voice will haunt you" from "Silver Springs". Very nicely done.

[welcomechris]

Actually I was thinking that the "take the last line out of the chorus" remark might refer to "Starshine" and the line being "playing with fire was..."

I think it's All The Beautiful Worlds

Calm, beautiful child like victim

[bombaysaffires]

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me

Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Well, it follows me down
And reminds me


I think it's pretty clear that the first "sometimes he's my best friend" refers to Lindsey while the second time that verse rolls around she's now referring to Tom, because she has referred to both of them from time to time as being a "best friend".


except of course that she flat out says in the video that the original words to the song for the choruses is "Sometimes TOM'S my best friend" and the reason she took out his actual name is that she knew he wouldn't like it-- but that it is still about him (her words).

Secondly, hearing his music on the radio…Lindsey? really? How much is his stuff played on radio? GYOW still gets quite a fair amount of play but not a lot else. Not anything where you'd catch his stuff regularly. Tom? Yep.
Cardboard cutout (paper doll) of him in the music store that she was tempted to buy? Lindsey? Really? Tom… waaaaay more likely.

There are soooo many songs about Lindsey, I kinda find it amusing we want every little thing to be about him. I was kinda glad she said Beautiful Child wasn't about him, nor Sleeping Angel, nor 24 karat, nor Watch Chain and etc. She's loved a lot of people. Is it the same as with LB? No relationship is ever just like any other, they were all different. She's said about half the album is about LB; just not this one song.:shrug:

[KarmaContestant]

Secondly, hearing his music on the radio…Lindsey? really? How much is his stuff played on radio? GYOW still gets quite a fair amount of play but not a lot else. Not anything where you'd catch his stuff regularly. Tom? Yep.
Cardboard cutout (paper doll) of him in the music store that she was tempted to buy? Lindsey? Really? Tom… waaaaay more likely.


I'm with you on everything but the cardboard cutout - I think that's of someone else. Tom is telling Stevie, stay out of record stores, don't buy that doll, forget him, turn off the radio, let it go.

[Johnny Stew]

I'm with you on everything but the cardboard cutout - I think that's of someone else. Tom is telling Stevie, stay out of record stores, don't buy that doll, forget him, turn off the radio, let it go.

Which is why I firmly believe the man she has to "get over" is one of the Eagles (most likely Joe) -- who were all over the radio and record stores that year.

[KarmaContestant]

Which is why I firmly believe the man she has to "get over" is one of the Eagles (most likely Joe) -- who were all over the radio and record stores that year.

I thought so too, and it was only 4 years prior in the liner notes of Timespace that she declared Joe was the love of her life.

[michelej1]

Secondly, hearing his music on the radio…Lindsey? really? How much is his stuff played on radio? GYOW still gets quite a fair amount of play but not a lot else. Not anything where you'd catch his stuff regularly. Tom? Yep.


She'd usually hear Lindsey on the radio with Fleetwood Mac and I don't think she gets pangs when she hears Fleetwood Mac, even on a Lindsey song. She's never mentioned that it's difficult to hear his voice, except when she does GYOW on stage. In the past she said that was like taking her back to the world of the big fight when he wrote the song. But I don't think hearing FM on the radio gives her those kinds of qualms.

She has probably heard Trouble on the radio and fallen asleep. Maybe when she hears Holiday Road on the radio, it gets her all emotional and heartsick. Boo hoo. I just can't get over him. Woof, woof, woof.


Cardboard cutout (paper doll) of him in the music store that she was tempted to buy? Lindsey? Really? Tom… waaaaay more likely.

I agree with you. But I do think the song Paper Doll is about Lindsey.

As for the cardboard poster she wanted to buy, Stevie the record stores don't sell those. So, the whole "don't buy that doll" thing is unnecessary.

[/QUOTE]There are soooo many songs about Lindsey, I kinda find it amusing we want every little thing to be about him. [/QUOTE]

I know. I am thinking of the arguments that FWIW was about him. Goodness.

And you know, for me there's a transcendent beauty in an almost 50 year old relationship in and of itself. I mean, it endures when the others have died. So, I don't know why it always has to be thought of as an exciting run through the fields towards each other with a racing heart beat kind of thing. I don't think she writes about Lindsey in those terms. But I do believe if there were a room of men and she had to save one from a fire, she'd pull Lindsey out over all those other. I don't think she likes Lindsey the most, but I think she loves him the most. For me, that's enough.

Michele

[michelej1]

I'm with you on everything but the cardboard cutout - I think that's of someone else. Tom is telling Stevie, stay out of record stores, don't buy that doll, forget him, turn off the radio, let it go.

That is my take. On the other hand, I could also see Tom telling Stevie to get over what brief fling the two of them actually had and she is just disguising that fact that by writing about two people instead of one.

But yes, the guy she keeps hearing is getting a lot of publicity. Airplay. Photo displays... she can't escape him. Which is why I went with Elvis, Michael Jackson or Justin Bieber. Although, I guess Bieber wasn't around in 1995.:lol:

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Maybe when she hears Holiday Road on the radio, it gets her all emotional and heartsick. Boo hoo. I just can't get over him. Woof, woof, woof.

this made me snort.:lol:



But I do think the song Paper Doll is about Lindsey

I always thought Joe. "you could have said no/you could have said 'well I just can't/whoa we were off the wall/we were mirrors of each other/passing by"

The fire thing? Not sure… maybe she'd save Dave these days. :eek:

[bombaysaffires]

That is my take. On the other hand, I could also see Tom telling Stevie to get over what brief fling the two of them actually had and she is just disguising that fact that by writing about two people instead of one.

But yes, the guy she keeps hearing is getting a lot of publicity. Airplay. Photo displays... she can't escape him. Which is why I went with Elvis, Michael Jackson or Justin Bieber. Although, I guess Bieber wasn't around in 1995.:lol:

Michele

well, Elvis was dead by then, so that makes it easier to get over him.

Michael… well… the less said there the better.

Bieber.. might have been in diapers then? That might put her in Michael Jackson sort of trouble… so kinda rules him out.

For some reason though she just got really stuck on Joe. Different strokes. :shrug:

[michelej1]

"you could have said no/you could have said 'well I just can't/

Now, I especially thought that was about Lindsey and a reference to the Tango fight, because even though the band knew he wanted out, he wouldn't come out and SAY it directly to them. Which was referenced in the Little Lies thread I was just reading in the other forum.

And Lindsey going on and making oblique references to leaving, but not telling them, the repression led to an explosion. In the lyrics, I heard her saying to him, "We could have avoided all of that, if you'd just been frank, sooner."

But my interpretation of the Paper Doll lyrics was probably strongly influenced by the song's video at the time. I admit that.

As far as your suggestion that she'd rescue Dave from a fire first, bite your tongue.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

As far as your suggestion that she'd rescue Dave from a fire first, bite your tongue.


no? think of all the dramatic "I miss you, I wish I could have saved you" songs we'd get..:D

[bombaysaffires]

I want to know which song was about/inspired by JD Souther.

I'm going to vote for Starshine, now that it's not supposedly about Mick, being about Hernan.

[nicole21290]

I'm just finding it amusing that she's said that half the songs are about Lindsey and yet has only admitted one of them (Lady) actually is and probably the 'blue-gray eyes' in Cathouse Blues. So, Stevie, going to enlighten us about the others? Yeah, not gonna happen.

[bombaysaffires]

I'm just finding it amusing that she's said that half the songs are about Lindsey and yet has only admitted one of them (Lady) actually is and probably the 'blue-gray eyes' in Cathouse Blues. So, Stevie, going to enlighten us about the others? Yeah, not gonna happen.

Cue that gif…… :lol:

[blinker12]

Which is why I firmly believe the man she has to "get over" is one of the Eagles (most likely Joe) -- who were all over the radio and record stores that year.

Yep, that's how I'm hearing it too. Joe Walsh.

[nicole21290]

Cue that gif…… :lol:

Gif? I know not of what you speak!

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/cu2_zps24da4a91.gif

[Johnny Stew]

I'm just finding it amusing that she's said that half the songs are about Lindsey and yet has only admitted one of them (Lady) actually is and probably the 'blue-gray eyes' in Cathouse Blues. So, Stevie, going to enlighten us about the others? Yeah, not gonna happen.

Personally, I'm thrilled that each of these commentaries so far hasn't been "Lindsey, Lindsey, Lindsey, Lindsey." Borrrrrring.

For me, it's enough to know that he was an inspiration. I like hearing what else she has to say about the tracks.

[tabruns]

except of course that she flat out says in the video that the original words to the song for the choruses is "Sometimes TOM'S my best friend" and the reason she took out his actual name is that she knew he wouldn't like it-- but that it is still about him (her words).

Secondly, hearing his music on the radio…Lindsey? really? How much is his stuff played on radio? GYOW still gets quite a fair amount of play but not a lot else. Not anything where you'd catch his stuff regularly. Tom? Yep.
Cardboard cutout (paper doll) of him in the music store that she was tempted to buy? Lindsey? Really? Tom… waaaaay more likely.

There are soooo many songs about Lindsey, I kinda find it amusing we want every little thing to be about him. I was kinda glad she said Beautiful Child wasn't about him, nor Sleeping Angel, nor 24 karat, nor Watch Chain and etc. She's loved a lot of people. Is it the same as with LB? No relationship is ever just like any other, they were all different. She's said about half the album is about LB; just not this one song.:shrug:

How does it make sense that this would be a song solely about Tom? It's about Tom giving her advice about getting over someone, and the references she's making (hearing a song on the radio, seeing a life size cut out 'doll' in a record store) are about the person she's not over, not about Tom.

"Don't buy that doll" is pretty obviously Tom telling her not to buy the doll of whoever it is she was getting over. The references to "it was long ago" and "this pain has gone on too long" seem to indicate Lindsey, and Tom's publically mentioned Stevie & Lindsey's love/hate dynamic before: "Stevie and Lindsey really love each other...but they hate each other SO much..." So clearly he's been involved in some of those conversations. Also the line about "can't get away from you" because of hearing a song on the radio is pretty clearly the person she's trying to get over, not the person giving her advice. And saying Lindsey is rarely on the radio is just silly as Mac is still regularly played on classic rock stations.

The one arguable point is whether "sometimes he's my best friend" can refer to a different person at different points of the song. I think it does, but of course I don't know any more than anyone else really knows that both stanzas are about the same person.

[loverly13]

Am I the only one who thinks the "don't buy that doll" line isn't referring to the paper cutout, but rather, an actual doll? Wasn't it in the early-mid 90s that Stevie was carrying baby dolls around all the time and people were talking about how she was treating them like actual babies?

Maybe it's just part of the package - not only could she not get over him, but maybe she thought that this might actually be the man she "settled down" with and had family with. So now, don't buy that doll is like, stop pretending, it's not happening.

I don't know, just my two cents and probably way over-reading the line.

[michelej1]

"Don't buy that doll" is pretty obviously Tom telling her not to buy the doll of whoever it is she was getting over.

Yes, it is pretty obvious. BUT what if Stevie didn't want us to know she had ever been intimate with Tom and wanted to tell the story of what he said to her, without revealing that he said it about himself?

I mean, I think that is what Bombaysaffires is suggesting. Yes, we know that the lyrics on their surface have Tom giving her advice, but what if there is a little artifice, so all is not what it seems?

I think she's talking to Tom about a third party, too. I just don't think it's Joe Walsh, because he doesn't seem famous enough. Yes, the Eagles were famous, but I don't know if seeing a poster of the Eagles, as a group, tugs at your heart like seeing one life size photo of that one someone would.

The references to "it was long ago" and "this pain has gone on too long" seem to indicate Lindsey, and Tom's publically mentioned Stevie & Lindsey's love/hate dynamic before: "Stevie and Lindsey really love each other...but they hate each other SO much..."

Except, because Stevie is part of Fleetwood Mac, just as Lindsey is, I don't see him giving her that advice about herself. Don't go into the record store , turn off the radio and don't buy that doll?? No one is going to tell her to avoid Lindsey, by avoiding Fleetwood Mac publicity. I don't think Tom is going to tell her to try to get over Lindsey, by avoiding Fleetwood Mac. Aside from that, Fleetwood Mac hadn't been splayed everywhere since TITN came out. After that, she wasn't seeing big photo displays of Fleetwood Mac anywhere. They made a splash at the Clinton inauguration and, I'm sure, she cried to Tom (and Don Henley too) about seeing Lindsey after that happened, BUT they still weren't in all the record stores. That didn't happen again until 1997.

She is too intertwined with Lindsey's songs herself, for that advice to be about escaping Lindsey's music.

If there was Lindsey music of FM's that hurt Stevie to listen to when they were estranged, then I wouldn't think it would be on the radio. It would be something like Goodbye Angel or Make Me a Mask.

Yeah, Tom did say they really hate each other, but I got the impression he thought of them as a crazy brother and sister who would be fighting to the end and wouldn't bother Stevie to try to get over Lindsey any more than he'd tell her to get over her Mother.

Michele

[michelej1]

Am I the only one who thinks the "don't buy that doll" line isn't referring to the paper cutout, but rather, an actual doll?

Well, it is strange to refer to a cardboard cutout as a "doll." Although, lyric wise maybe that was just the most concise way to do it. I suppose it is a "paper doll" though.

Michele

[nicole21290]

She is too intertwined with Lindsey's songs herself, for that advice to be about escaping Lindsey's music.

If there was Lindsey music of FM's that hurt Stevie to listen to when they were estranged, then I wouldn't think it would be on the radio. It would be something like Goodbye Angel or Make Me a Mask.

Yeah, Tom did say they really hate each other, but I got the impression he thought of them as a crazy brother and sister who would be fighting to the end and wouldn't bother Stevie to try to get over Lindsey any more than he'd tell her to get over her Mother.

Michele

His 'music' heals now, not hurts...

"She does still hear him
All night long
The same song over and over
It heals her heart
No voice of a stranger
Could play that part
It broke her heart"

And LOL, Tom sees them as brother and sister? Really? If anyone sees them as brother and sister, I'd suggest they need their eyes and ears checked. Honestly.

[bombaysaffires]

That's showbiz. :sorry: :shrug:

[Frankenstein]

This song is a tough one to decipher. My first thought was that the guy she's getting over was Lindsey simply for the "infamous past" line, but I'm not so sure. The doll line is a head-scratcher - could it possibly be metaphorical and not literal? :shrug: I'm guessing more literal, and if so... I can't really imagine any of her 'famous loves' having a life-sized cutout of themselves in a record store. The idea of the man being Tom doesn't jive well with me either though, it just seems super awkward for her to be telling Tom she misses him that way, and even more so for his response to be all that "Get over it" stuff :shocked: I'd really like to know the rest of the story behind the song though.

I'd like to also just say that I'm glad we can have song speculation and discussions like this on The Ledge. I was booted out of another fan community for stating that we don't 100% know the meanings of Stevie's songs unless she decides to tell us :confused:

[gypsyhelena]

Am I the only one who thinks the "don't buy that doll" line isn't referring to the paper cutout, but rather, an actual doll? Wasn't it in the early-mid 90s that Stevie was carrying baby dolls around all the time and people were talking about how she was treating them like actual babies?

Maybe it's just part of the package - not only could she not get over him, but maybe she thought that this might actually be the man she "settled down" with and had family with. So now, don't buy that doll is like, stop pretending, it's not happening.

I don't know, just my two cents and probably way over-reading the line.

I hadn't even thought about the possibility that the doll she was told not to buy was that paper cut-out of an ex-lover... I'd just assumed that Tom had seen her carrying around her baby dolls and had been really worried about her because of that behaviour, so told her to 'get over it' and to not buy any more dolls. :shrug:

[Tango]

The song is puzzling. Stevie has a lot of "best friends." The paper cut out could be any musician that sold an album. The doll thing is sad-- I half wonder if it's about Don Henley and little bit about the "Sara" story he shared with GQ, the child she aborted. Missing the child, missing Don, seeing him move on, hearing his music all the time, seeing his work in a record store advertised. Giving up the baby may have been at times on Stevie's mind. Is that what the dolls are all about? It could make one crazy. Don't be crazy Stevie. Let it go. Don't dwell on it. Don't buy that doll. You made a decision. Move on. Again, ALL total speculation.

https://img0.etsystatic.com/045/1/5826763/il_570xN.662859808_buql.jpg


Don had a number of solo albums, any of which might have had a cut out album cover around. The above is one of them. He was on the radio quite a bit for his solo career. I don't know the timeline for any of this.

Just one theory, one thought out of many possible ones.

[NurseDJackson]

I'm wondering if the "famous friend" is not Prince?

After years of her being vague about the nature of their relationship it turns out they had a phone friendship in the middle of the night for years, which would explain some of the strange details she's offered up about singing with him, being given Purple Rain, him yelling at her over cough syrup...the way she seemed to act like he was stranger she saw 3 times but also gives off a sense of having had very intense and intimate conversations with him.

Just a thought.

Is it at all possible that there might have been "paper dolls" of Lindsey in mid-92 for Out Of The Cradle?

I'm still leaning towards Don Henley, though, after reading some of the compelling points made by others. Who else is famous enough?

But then again, when she was all up in Tom Petty's Australian tour during her "Joe Walsh Insanity/Other Artist Harassment" period (showing up in the Heart Sisters' lives, scaring Dave Stewart with her all-night photo shoots and the famed "Don't come around here no more!" phone call) he told her "You're not living in the real world"....likely in relation to Joe Walsh, given the time period. And then it comes up a decade later? He must have gotten very tired of her nonsense at various times!

[michelej1]

I'm wondering if the "famous friend" is not Prince?



I think Prince is a good candidate for the 2nd famous friend. Tom is one and then there's another.

And I've always said that Prince's Fury reminded me of Stevie and Lindsey a little.

Y'all must have dug it when you did your thang
It's like a song everybody wanna sang
When the music's over your ears ring
With a voice that's saying "Queen got no King"

He got a message saying you tried to reach him on the phone
He didn't wanna answer 'cuz he's so afraid
You'd probably tell him just to leave you alone

[michelej1]

This song is a tough one to decipher. My first thought was that the guy she's getting over was Lindsey simply for the "infamous past" line, but I'm not so sure. The doll line is a head-scratcher - could it possibly be metaphorical and not literal? :shrug: I'm guessing more literal, and if so... I can't really imagine any of her 'famous loves' having a life-sized cutout of themselves in a record store.

Maybe she's pined for Springsteen for years and we never knew it.

Michele

[Ensorcled]

Sun Flowers and your paper face facinate me

[michelej1]

I hadn't even thought about the possibility that the doll she was told not to buy was that paper cut-out of an ex-lover... I'd just assumed that Tom had seen her carrying around her baby dolls and had been really worried about her because of that behaviour, so told her to 'get over it' and to not buy any more dolls. :shrug:

I know it's not unusual for Stevie's lyrics to be out of context, but I just don't think that it would make sense for her to be talking about hearing a guy's voice on the radio, visiting a record store, and then have the "doll" be a baby doll that she collects and NOT the life-size poster of the man (a singer) that she saw in the record store.

So, that's why I think the "doll" is a replica of the singer and not one of her baby dolls. The baby dolls just have no place in the conversation that's going on in this story.

But I will concede that you have a point because you can't purchase those life-size cut outs. They aren't for sale. You can ask the guy at the music store to give it to you once the promotion is over, but they don't have a price tag. So, yes her saying don't buy that doll is puzzling. Michele

[bombaysaffires]

I know it's not unusual for Stevie's lyrics to be out of context, but I just don't think that it would make sense for her to be talking about hearing a guy's voice on the radio, visiting a record store, and then have the "doll" be a baby doll that she collects and NOT the life-size poster of the man (a singer) that she saw in the record store.

So, that's why I think the "doll" is a replica of the singer and not one of her baby dolls. The baby dolls just have no place in the conversation that's going on in this story.

But I will concede that you have a point because you can't purchase those life-size cut outs. They aren't for sale. You can ask the guy at the music store to give it to you once the promotion is over, but they don't have a price tag. So, yes her saying don't buy that doll is puzzling. Michele

well, maybe not any of us, but she's STEVIE NICKS and "when I want something, I get it"-- which I don't doubt for a second.

If she wants the cutout, she'll get it. Whether she'd have to PAY for it…….:shrug:

[Tango]

I think it refers to a literal doll. I have a vague memory of Stevie carrying one in an old airport picture. Anyone remember that picture? There are a number of doll pics, though, that I don't think most of them have anything to do with the song. Barbara's store had dozens of them for sale in the old Payson, AZ store.

http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/admin/images/Stevie_dolls.jpg

[michelej1]

I think it refers to a literal doll. I have a vague memory of Stevie carrying one in an old airport picture. Anyone remember that picture? There are a number of doll pics, though, that I don't think most of them have anything to do with the song. Barbara's store had dozens of them for sale in the old Payson, AZ store.



There's no doubt that Stevie has dolls. Yes, I've seen pictures of her with a doll. I thought she was holding a doll in that picture when she was coming through a door and she had rollers in her hair. I just don't think her love of dolls, in general, fits into the concept of the song.

Michele

[jcalzaretta]

Love this song. And I completely agree with anyone who wonders how this did not make TISL in lieu of That Made Me Stronger!

[Tango]

There's no doubt that Stevie has dolls. Yes, I've seen pictures of her with a doll. I thought she was holding a doll in that picture when she was coming through a door and she had rollers in her hair. I just don't think her love of dolls, in general, fits into the concept of the song.

Michele

I see an image of a very disturbed & messed up Stevie buying dolls as a substitute for the child that she gave up. I've thought a bit about her relationship with Don Henley as well. I don't know exactly how it ended, but the "relationship" ended long ago. We all know about the article that was in GQ and the fall out, and how he called and apologised thousands of times, etc. But she still maintained a relationship with Don that goes on to this day. His solo career was prolific-- he was all over the radio. He was the one she was talking to on the phone when 9/11 was happening and Stevie was in the hotel in NYC. She did the Two Voices tour with him. Sometimes he's her best friend--even when he's not around. He's always a phone call away. Don's done a couple of those Stevie Nicks & Friends benefits. She takes his criticism seriously and doesn't seem to put up the resistance as she did with Lindsey-- Don told Stevie to re-write Leather & Lace, etc. I can't seem to shake the impression that it's about Don Henley. Maybe one day she'll mention who it's about. I also think it's significant that she recently confirmed the aborted baby close to the release of this album. Too much of a stretch???

[blinker12]

In the Uncut interview, Stevie said someone advised her that if she cut the last line of a song, it could be a hit. What do you want to bet it was this one?

"Don't buuuuy that dollllllll...." LOL

I love this song though, including that line. It keeps growing on me more and more. Like all my favorite Stevie songs, it is disorienting structurally on first listen. Like, 'wait what's the verse chorus and bridge here'? The elements don't go in conventional order. "Silver Springs" and "Sara" are similar in that way.

[Jondalar]

In the Uncut interview, Stevie said someone advised her that if she cut the last line of a song, it could be a hit. What do you want to bet it was this one?

"Don't buuuuy that dollllllll...." LOL

I love this song though, including that line. It keeps growing on me more and more. Like all my favorite Stevie songs, it is disorienting structurally on first listen. Like, 'wait what's the verse chorus and bridge here'? The elements don't go in conventional order. "Silver Springs" and "Sara" are similar in that way.

I think it is this song too. This is one of her really goods songs that may not be rerecorded because of that line. There is the huh factor.

[PenguinHead]

[QUOTE=michelej1;1147066]
As for the cardboard poster she wanted to buy, Stevie the record stores don't sell those. So, the whole "don't buy that doll" thing is unnecessary.
/QUOTE]

That's reading into her lyrics too literally!:lol: This is Stevie's poetic reality, so there is nothing pragmatic about it.

I find the doll reference very interesting. Initially it seemed out of context. But then I made the connection that the doll she was referring to is the cardboard cutout-- a paper doll.

[Sanne2]

I really thought the lyric was Don't buy that dog, like "you don't need another Yorkie, Stevie. Focus on songwriting instead!"

[welcomechris]

I really thought the lyric was Don't buy that dog, like "you don't need another Yorkie, Stevie. Focus on songwriting instead!"

:]:]:D:]:]

[secret love]

I see an image of a very disturbed & messed up Stevie buying dolls as a substitute for the child that she gave up. I've thought a bit about her relationship with Don Henley as well. I don't know exactly how it ended, but the "relationship" ended long ago. We all know about the article that was in GQ and the fall out, and how he called and apologised thousands of times, etc. But she still maintained a relationship with Don that goes on to this day. His solo career was prolific-- he was all over the radio. He was the one she was talking to on the phone when 9/11 was happening and Stevie was in the hotel in NYC. She did the Two Voices tour with him. Sometimes he's her best friend--even when he's not around. He's always a phone call away. Don's done a couple of those Stevie Nicks & Friends benefits. She takes his criticism seriously and doesn't seem to put up the resistance as she did with Lindsey-- Don told Stevie to re-write Leather & Lace, etc. I can't seem to shake the impression that it's about Don Henley. Maybe one day she'll mention who it's about. I also think it's significant that she recently confirmed the aborted baby close to the release of this album. Too much of a stretch???

The song isn't about an abortion. It's about writer's block. The person who gives such hard advice is Tom Petty, Stevie has stated this publicly already.

[bombaysaffires]

I see an image of a very disturbed & messed up Stevie buying dolls as a substitute for the child that she gave up. I've thought a bit about her relationship with Don Henley as well. I don't know exactly how it ended, but the "relationship" ended long ago. We all know about the article that was in GQ and the fall out, and how he called and apologised thousands of times, etc. But she still maintained a relationship with Don that goes on to this day. His solo career was prolific-- he was all over the radio. He was the one she was talking to on the phone when 9/11 was happening and Stevie was in the hotel in NYC. She did the Two Voices tour with him. Sometimes he's her best friend--even when he's not around. He's always a phone call away. Don's done a couple of those Stevie Nicks & Friends benefits. She takes his criticism seriously and doesn't seem to put up the resistance as she did with Lindsey-- Don told Stevie to re-write Leather & Lace, etc. I can't seem to shake the impression that it's about Don Henley. Maybe one day she'll mention who it's about. I also think it's significant that she recently confirmed the aborted baby close to the release of this album. Too much of a stretch???

she already has. watch her video where she says very clearly it's about Tom. The original lyric to the song is "sometimes Tom's my best friend" but she changed 'Tom" to "he" coz she knew Tom would not like being mentioned so directly in the song.

[michelej1]

[QUOTE=michelej1;1147066]
As for the cardboard poster she wanted to buy, Stevie the record stores don't sell those. So, the whole "don't buy that doll" thing is unnecessary.
/QUOTE]

That's reading into her lyrics too literally!:lol: This is Stevie's poetic reality, so there is nothing pragmatic about it.



Stevie's lyrics are the last ones I would take too literally.

[Tango]

she already has. watch her video where she says very clearly it's about Tom. The original lyric to the song is "sometimes Tom's my best friend" but she changed 'Tom" to "he" coz she knew Tom would not like being mentioned so directly in the song.

I didn't see that video. I'll look for it, thank you. By the lyrics I was totally picturing a character like "Delta Dawn" except with a "doll"!

[Phoenixgypsy]

I really thought the lyric was Don't buy that dog, like "you don't need another Yorkie, Stevie. Focus on songwriting instead!"

LOL- I heard dog the first couple of times I listened too! Glad I'm not the only one.

[sleepless child]

It is about advice Tom gave her about getting on with things, but she is talking about a second person in the song. Tom is giving her advice on getting past this person. That's who we want to know about. I don't think the song is Tom giving her advice to quit listening to his songs. She has always said he is a friend and not someone she had a relationship with. But knowing her, we could all be wrong in our assumptions. LOL

[michelej1]

It is about advice Tom gave her about getting on with things, but she is talking about a second person in the song.

Yes certainly. The comments about it possibly being Tom were all made knowing that the song was ostensibly about Tom giving Stevie advice about getting over a third party.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

I didn't see that video. I'll look for it, thank you. By the lyrics I was totally picturing a character like "Delta Dawn" except with a "doll"!

here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIswPIYr9IM

She specifically says the song was written for him, and that the original line was "sometimes Tom's my best friend"

and the line "even when he's not around" is that she doesn't see him all the time, "but the sound of his voice well it follows me down and reminds me" is about how his voice (in her head) "reminds me of what's right and what's wrong"

and that the whole song is about how he gave her "talking to" and "it pulled me out of a hole"

[PenguinHead]

I really thought the lyric was Don't buy that dog, like "you don't need another Yorkie, Stevie. Focus on songwriting instead!"

:lol: It might as well be! Attempting to find a linear, direct line to a specific subject that pertains to her personal life can be entertaining. I have no desperate need to make those connections. Many of Stevie's ambiguous lyrics have an Rorschach inkblot test quality to them, subject to personal interpretation. Even Stevie , over time reinterprets some of her songs. Very few of her song have single subject matter--and even then the message is never straight forward.

[dontlookdown]

It's one of my least favorite songs on the whole album.
I would have left this and Carousel off the album.
I think they are the weakest links and I wish she would keep her albums to 11 and or 12 songs.

I know I'm in the minority -- but I didn't like Moonlight either...

[sorcerer999]

Last night...or EARLY this morning at 2:00am, rather...as my friend and I were leaving our last Halloween party for the evening, and taking our drunk asses over to a restaurant to sober up...

...I saw this life sized paper doll of Joe Walsh in a record store...my friend, as well as me...

[DauphineMarie]

Last night...or EARLY this morning at 2:00am, rather...as my friend and I were leaving our last Halloween party for the evening, and taking our drunk asses over to a restaurant to sober up...

...I saw this life sized paper doll of Joe Walsh in a record store...my friend, as well as me...

nOoo :eek:

[michelej1]

Last night...or EARLY this morning at 2:00am, rather...as my friend and I were leaving our last Halloween party for the evening, and taking our drunk asses over to a restaurant to sober up...

...I saw this life sized paper doll of Joe Walsh in a record store...my friend, as well as me...

Oh my goodness. That is surreal. That's a CSI case-cracking moment right there. The universal consciousness wanted you to see that doll.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Last night...or EARLY this morning at 2:00am, rather...as my friend and I were leaving our last Halloween party for the evening, and taking our drunk asses over to a restaurant to sober up...

...I saw this life sized paper doll of Joe Walsh in a record store...my friend, as well as me...


eww. that looks like present-day, post-facelift Joe. Ewww.

[HoursAndHours]

Last night...or EARLY this morning at 2:00am, rather...as my friend and I were leaving our last Halloween party for the evening, and taking our drunk asses over to a restaurant to sober up...

...I saw this life sized paper doll of Joe Walsh in a record store...my friend, as well as me...

This is potentially the most gloriously full of win post I've seen in quite a while. :thumbsup:

[PenguinHead]

Last night...or EARLY this morning at 2:00am, rather...as my friend and I were leaving our last Halloween party for the evening, and taking our drunk asses over to a restaurant to sober up...

...I saw this life sized paper doll of Joe Walsh in a record store...my friend, as well as me...

That is so crazy surreal! Did you hear a voice telling you "don't buy that doll"?

[michelej1]

eww. that looks like present-day, post-facelift Joe. Ewww.

That's the face that her friends, as well as she, can't get over.

Michele

[sorcerer999]

This is potentially the most gloriously full of win post I've seen in quite a while. :thumbsup:

:xoxo:

That is so crazy surreal! Did you hear a voice telling you "don't buy that doll"?

:lol: No. That one was a no brainer! :D

[michelej1]

:lol: No. That one was a no brainer! :D

Too funny.

I really am shocked that there are life-sized posters of him.

Michele

[FM77]

It's one of my least favorite songs on the whole album.
I would have left this and Carousel off the album.
I think they are the weakest links and I wish she would keep her albums to 11 and or 12 songs.

I know I'm in the minority -- but I didn't like Moonlight either...


I agree. I cannot get into this song.

[Richard B]

Can't get into this song either, never will. I have a feeling this song in a year or so will be on all those worst song list threads that permeate this forum from time to time. It's no better than That Made Me Stronger. I also can't stand when she says "famous friend" in her song. Why can't these friends just be friends? Why do they have to be a "famous" friends? It's so obnoxious. Just because someone is famous, doesn't mean jack. I have famous friends too, but I would never say that...they are just a friends. She did it with Two Kinds Of Love too.

[DauphineMarie]

Can't get into this song either, never will. I have a feeling this song in a year or so will be on all those worst song list threads that permeate this forum from time to time. It's no better than That Made Me Stronger. I also can't stand when she says "famous friend" in her song. Why can't these friends just be friends? Why do they have to be a "famous" friends? It's so obnoxious. Just because someone is famous, doesn't mean jack. I have famous friends too, but I would never say that...they are just a friends. She did it with Two Kinds Of Love too.

I agree with this. Though it's an okay song, it won't stick with me as a favourite, or even one I would listen to very often. It gets skipped just as often as Carousel, for me.

[KarmaContestant]

Last night...or EARLY this morning at 2:00am, rather...as my friend and I were leaving our last Halloween party for the evening, and taking our drunk asses over to a restaurant to sober up...

...I saw this life sized paper doll of Joe Walsh in a record store...my friend, as well as me...

:eek:

Stay out of music stores!

[KarmaContestant]

On topic, I love Hard Advice. It was not a standout track right away, but has grown on me.

It's funny how people will relate to a song. :shrug: I have no connection to the story she is telling; no one gave me 'hard advice' about a man or a habit or a lover...but I really find the song relatable.

[dontlookdown]

Can't get into this song either, never will. I have a feeling this song in a year or so will be on all those worst song list threads that permeate this forum from time to time. It's no better than That Made Me Stronger. I also can't stand when she says "famous friend" in her song. Why can't these friends just be friends? Why do they have to be a "famous" friends? It's so obnoxious. Just because someone is famous, doesn't mean jack. I have famous friends too, but I would never say that...they are just a friends. She did it with Two Kinds Of Love too.



Agree. The obsession with fame has grown tiresome.
Stevie you are famous. Maybe one of the most famous living rock stars in the world. We get it.
Get over it. Go write some real songs.

Actually, this song has grown on me over the last few weeks. So has the entire album. It's really quite great.
Except for Carousel. Everything else has won me over, slowly but surely.

We read so much about Stevie's voice and writing, but not many people talk about her amazing knack for melody. Same for Tom Petty.
She really has an amazing ability to come up with the most simple but catchy/memorable melodies. This album might be her most "tuneful" since Bella Donna.
Which means it's easy to sing to, which means it should have been an enormous hit by now, if records still sold the way they used to.

[pryderi]

I've always loved going into her 'rock star life' world with songs like After the Glitter Fades, That Made me Stronger, Two Kinds of Love etc. It's a nice escape.

[Dex]

I have to agree with the jarring "famous friends" line. I know she needed to round out the sentence a bit, but she needs a new adjective for her friends, because that one is just ick. It's certainly not the only lyric I struggle with on this song, though.

But the melody? Totally fantastic. A very listenable song overall, with some slightly cringey "Ohhhh Stevie!" moments.

An aside: I do not get people who don't like Carousel but manage to enjoy the tuneless clusterf*** that is I Don't Care. Ya'll are crazy! ;)

[michelej1]

An aside: I do not get people who don't like Carousel but manage to enjoy the tuneless clusterf*** that is I Don't Care. Ya'll are crazy! ;)

The two are so different that I can't say, "If you like I Don't Care, you should like Carousel" at all.

I don't like I Don't Care, particularly though. Carousel is ok. Tuneless it is not and maybe that's the problem. I think it's a little sing-songy and the lighter voices are sweet, but make it more juvenile. I mean, it's fine for Vanessa's album, I don't know if it would have been my choice to put it on Stevie's, sentiment aside.

Michele

[Dex]

The two are so different that I can't say, "If you like I Don't Care, you should like Carousel" at all.


Yeah, I didn't really mean it that way. I've just been really surprised by the warm reception that I Don't Care seems to have received and the cold one for Carousel. They're just so different from my own takes on those songs and I've been finding it a little disorienting.

But that's all part of the magic of fan discussion etc.

[pryderi]

Yeah, I didn't really mean it that way. I've just been really surprised by the warm reception that I Don't Care seems to have received and the cold one for Carousel. They're just so different from my own takes on those songs and I've been finding it a little disorienting.

But that's all part of the magic of fan discussion etc.

definitely. i enjoy reading everyone's thoughts.

[Jondalar]

I have to agree with the jarring "famous friends" line. I know she needed to round out the sentence a bit, but she needs a new adjective for her friends, because that one is just ick. It's certainly not the only lyric I struggle with on this song, though.

But the melody? Totally fantastic. A very listenable song overall, with some slightly cringey "Ohhhh Stevie!" moments.

An aside: I do not get people who don't like Carousel but manage to enjoy the tuneless clusterf*** that is I Don't Care. Ya'll are crazy! ;)

I like Carousel a lot better too.

[lilyfee]

Yeah, I didn't really mean it that way. I've just been really surprised by the warm reception that I Don't Care seems to have received and the cold one for Carousel. .

I think part of this must be the live improv on I Don't Care... It has that unrestrained emotion that we love to see from Stevie. That said, I prefer Carousel... Sometimes it definitely gets stuck in my head.

For Hard Advice, I think Tom is telling Stevie not to buy any more baby dolls... I don't think the dolls line is a reference to the "life-size paper doll" of Tom. However I do think the person Stevie needs to let go is Lindsey.

I think the line "it was finished long ago" is referring back to music/radio... Because Stevie says all the time that the music business is finished and that's in the vein of this song -- the need to write "real" songs and ignore the kind of music that is popular "on the radio"... Just go back to "how it was," and write good songs.

[wheart]

I love Hard Advice. Yes, many of the lyrics land with a great big thud but for me, the beautiful melody makes up for it. It's just so pretty and soothing to listen to. My favorite part is the end where the timing or whatever it's called changes. I love songs that have interesting dynamics and don't follow the standard verse, chorus, repeat formula. So I give Hard Advice an A-.

I love Carousel also. I Don't Care just goes on too long for my taste. I think it could have been more effective if it were shortened by a minute or so. By the time it's over, I totally don't care!! BUT, I think her vocals are great on it.