i'll start it 24K (Upgrade or Downgrade)

[Hawkeye]

This thread is absolutely inevitable with an album 85 percent full of songs many of us have known forever. And maybe its a little early to start it, but now that a few people have the album, why not.

Are the finished products on 24 KG an upgrade or a downgrade over their demo version. You can also say absolutely no difference but I feel that will be rare.

Since I'm not one of those who've heard the album I can't start us off except for the four songs already released, but ill just do those 4 with the rest later on.


Obviously Hard Advice, I Don't Care and Carousel don't count since there are no leaked demos for the first 2 and the last one is a cover song.

[sorcerer999]

IMO, the only songs that didn't translate well from demo/outtake form to its new incarnation are "Blue Water", "Twisted" and "She Loves Him Still". The rest are stellar!

[J.Miller]

For the most part Stevie kept very true to the demos.The Nashville musicians did an excellent job of fleshing these songs out.

[TimeCastASpell]

What's everyone's thoughts on The Dealer? I must have 3-4 different demos and it was always a favorite. I was bummed when I first heard the album version but its growing on me. I feel like its slightly slowed up. I always thought it was such a fun song and I picked up two demo/outtake bootleg CDs at a record store last year and each had versions of The Dealer on it, was a blast to sing along in the car. New version, not so much. I'm not sure if I've worded that well. I also think the demos had a jazzier sound which I really enjoyed and that's definitely lacking from the new version. I actually thought it sounded super "Nashville" when I first heard the new version, didnt like that at all. Like I said though, it seems to be growing on me but I still prefer the demo. Listening again now and I'm thinking its the verses that seem slow and distinctly lack that jazzy sound but the chorus is completely true to demo which may be why the song is growing on me. Lots of fun to sing about being the mistress of your fate. :)

LOVE the new Twisted.

Haven't had enough time to decide on the rest, The Dealer was the number one song on the album I was most intimately familiar with in demo form, not so much on the others.

[goldenground]

The only ones I wasn't really a fan of; The Dealer and Blue Water (The one I was looking forward to the most lol) Why couldn't she just have the girls sing harmonies with her along with the signature piano and tinkling chimes?? :shrug: This version was...odd.

Downgrade: The Dealer (boring) & Blue Water (not bad, but kinda botched) Cathouse Blues (cute and fun, but nothing super special)

Upgrade: MABEL NORMAND (this song is espic), 24 Karat Gold (magical), She Loves Him Still (demo was a little too sappy for me), Starshine, Watch Chain, and Belle Fleur

I would say All The Beautiful Worlds is an upgrade because it's so fantastic, but it's pretty much on par with the demo. Both are so sexy. Same with If You Were My Love and Twisted

[louielouie2000]

1. Starshine - upgrade

2. If You Were My Love - upgrade

3. Mabel Normand - HUGE upgrade

4. Twisted - downgrade

5. 24 Karat Gold - HUGE upgrade

6. Belle Fleur - upgrade

7. All the Beautiful Worlds - upgrade

8. Lady - big downgrade

9. I Don't Care - new track

10. Watch Chain - upgrade

11. Hard Advice - new song

12. Carousel - I'm sure it's better than the Vanessa version... but is that really saying anything? :shrug:

13. Blue Water - heartbreaking downgrade :distress:

14. Cathouse Blues - downgrade; not that the original was something of substance anyway

15. The Dealer - downgrade

16. She Loves Him Still - definite upgrade

So I only rated 5 of 16 as downgrades... not bad considering how in love I was with some of the originals.

[KarmaContestant]

New versions that are upgrades:
Mabel Normand
24 Karat Gold
Belle Fleur
Watch Chain
Blue Water
Cathouse Blues

A likable new version of a song I already liked; a crossgrade:
Starshine
Twisted
Lady
The Dealer
She Loves Him Still

The rest:
If You Were My Love
All The Beautiful Worlds

[markolas]

I think they're all upgrades by definition, except for Twisted. But I've always viewed the demos as curiosities more than actually enjoyable songs.

[welcomechris]

they are all upgrades for me with the exception of "Blue Water" and "If You Were My Love" (I like the mirage take better

[Jondalar]

They are all upgrades. I will be listening to this album for years. :)

[jcfree]

They are all upgrades. I will be listening to this album for year. :)

DITTO!! All the songs are updated, fleshed out and Stevie's voice shines on all of them. LOVE, LOVE!

[krrrby]

1. Starshine - Meh - I guess upgrade

2. If You Were My Love - Upgrade

3. Mabel Normand - Upgrade - loved it

4. Twisted - In the middle - I love it but I love the duet version too

5. 24 Karat Gold - YES - major upgrade

6. Belle Fleur - Upgrade

7. All the Beautiful Worlds - Upgrade - I think she killed the vocals here they were stunning!

8. Lady - Downgrade - I don't like how she shouts through the chorus

9. I Don't Care - Well yeah - but I FREAKIN LOVE IT

10. Watch Chain - Modest upgrade

11. Hard Advice - New - but I loved it - very sweet

12. Carousel - Hard to say - I love both this version and Vanessa's original too.

13. Blue Water - Major downgrade - I did not like this at all. Should have been Stevie and the girls and that's it. They oversang it at the end.

14. Cathouse Blues - Upgrade - I actually like it - it's different - and I love the ensemble

15. The Dealer - Downgrade - Was never a fan of this song I think it would have been an ok song in its time.

16. She Loves Him Still - Upgrade

[tabruns]

Well they basically turned "Blue Water" into a potential country hit, hence the addition of the Lady Antebellum vocalists.

I'm not nearly as familiar as others are with the demos, but the one that I was is "If You Were My Love", and I like the Mirage version better.

"24 Karat Gold," "Starshine," "Lady," "Mabel Normand," and possibly "The Dealer" all could have sounded right at home on a Fleetwood Mac album. It still surprises me that these songs never made a Mac album when other Nicks songs did. It's kind of baffling.

[PenguinHead]

Well they basically turned "Blue Water" into a potential country hit, hence the addition of the Lady Antebellum vocalists.

I'm not nearly as familiar as others are with the demos, but the one that I was is "If You Were My Love", and I like the Mirage version better.

"24 Karat Gold," "Starshine," "Lady," "Mabel Normand," and possibly "The Dealer" all could have sounded right at home on a Fleetwood Mac album. It still surprises me that these songs never made a Mac album when other Nicks songs did. It's kind of baffling.

I've come to like Lady Antebellum, mostly due to Stevie's Crossroads show. So I've softened up and have come to like their contribution to Blue Water. It's not what was expected, but it's still a nice song.

[Bandon]

All upgrades including All the Beautiful Worlds, which was already a complete song. The latest version of ATBW is just update with some added production and Stevie's more mature voice. Some people say the chorus is slow, but i think it's just fine. Her voice is far superior to most of the the Say You Will album. :nod:

[TimeCastASpell]

8. Lady - Downgrade - I don't like how she shouts through the chorus


I just gave the song a quick listen through because I think we're all familiar with her "shout singing" but in this case I don't think it's so much that she's shouting, I think she's straining (especially on "Lady you don't need to see") to reach a couple of notes that are probably beyond her current rang. Although I'm not totally sure if its straining or some sort of attempt at emotional infliction (reminds me a bit of the end of original "Silver Springs" where she shout sings but in an oh so effective way that I personally count as possibly the greatest recorded musical moment of all times because my gosh do you feel the emotion there... Doesn't quite work on "Lady" though). I'm not sure, makes me wince a bit which is why I lean towards thinking she's straining beyond her current reach. I'm a soprano, used to be able to hit the really high soprano parts at times but have spent enough time in choirs and heck just hearing my own voice change with illness and a nasty smoking habit that I've definitely heard far too many people try to reach for notes they just can't quite reach.

With that said does anyone have a YouTube link or something to the original demo? I'm not sure if I've ever heard it. I do really love the 24 Karat Gold version mostly I suppose because I'm in a place in my life right now where I relate strongly.

Although as much as I love and adore Stevie, and generally I find while there are obvious distinct differences between younger Stevie's voice and range and older Stevie, I think there's a great deal to like about both phases or whatever you want t call it but the one thing I think I do miss and I don't so much think this is an age related thing is that younger Stevie was somewhat better able to inflict more passion into her singing. I think, though I'm no music expert just someone who has sung and to a small degree studied music for fun, that younger Stevie's voice sounded a lot more untrained, but gosh did that work for her, at least to my ears. So I don't think age/ vocal changes are the issue, she just sounds almost over trained maybe? But then again with limited or no training, singing the way she did when she was much younger, if she hadn't made changes she might literally not be able to sing at all today and gosh they seem to have such a grueling tour schedule for artists of any age, so I assume you need lots of training and control to be able to get out there and sing night after night, not to mention when you're not fueled by drugs and alcohol you've got both no excuse to lose control of your voice and also nothing to numb the pain if you've worn out or strained your vocal cords.

Anyway, maybe I'm completely off base (and I'm sure to at least some of you, I'm completely over analyzing because in the listening to music is about enjoyment, not about over thinking!) but just something I've noticed and that especially sticks out to me when you listen to old demos versus these newly recorded versions. Granted, you also might sing a lot differently on a demo,especially in the case of some I've heard where they're very rough or just fiddling around in the studio or with a tape recorder somewhere, versus how you'd sing for a track you're releasing to the public too... But enough of my over analyzing.

In some ways I do think its a blessing I either haven't heard or haven't listened heavily to many of the demos of these songs because its kind of like when artist cover someone else's song, the first version you heard (sometimes even if the first version you heard was the cover) that's the version that you tend to like most because that's what you're used to and any changes and it just isn't the same, you know? And I know the Stevie demos I do have and frequently listen to are like gold to me, some really incredible stuff and personally I like the rawness, I'm not even sure I would want to hear finished versions or I'd love to hear late 70s-early 80s versions because that's the era of Stevie's voice I'm used t hearing them in (most of the demos I have seem to be Tusk era or before) not that Stevie's voice now isn't amazing. But anyway, I'm still overthinking! ;)

[straightback818]

I thought it would be fun to do a 24 karat version song vs demo
Using the vinyl tracklist because of more songs

Starshine- I prefer the 24 karat version, sounds more complete less baseball game themed

If you were my love- I will always prefer the fleetwood mac demo version, no matter how good the 24 karat version... So demo for that one

Mabel Normand- self explanatory hahaha... 24 karat version

Twisted- 24 KARAT GOLD VERSION, where has this voice been???

24 karat gold- the demo was very witchy, but this completed version leaves my jaw open no matter how many times I listen to it... 24 karat version

Belle fleur- I actually prefer the echoey bell pianos of the demo... Demo version

All the beautiful worlds- the best song on the album yet I STILL prefer the demo... The demo is just perfection

Lady- 24 karat version

I Dont care- N/A

Watch Chain- this is tough... I love the reggae demo but i also loveee thr bridge of the new version... Im going with the demo

Hard advice- N/A

Carousel- N/A

Blue water- demo

Cathouse blues- demo

The dealer- 24 karat gold

She loves him still- 24 karat gold

Demo- 6
24 karat- 7
Ps- sorry i got lazy at the end lol

Post your opinions!

[Macfan4life]

I agree with you on All the beautiful worlds. I love Stevie's voice from 1981 to 1983. And I think the demo was recorded around 1982 or 1983. Although its really not a demo but a completed track IMHO. I love the music and her voice and especially the backing vocals.
It would have been perfect on Wild Heard.

[tabruns]

I really can't speak to this for a lot of her songs because I never actually heard the demos, with the exception of "If You Were My Love", and that one, I like the Mirage session demo better than the 24KG recording.

[Jondalar]

Every single song is better than the demo version. This is a no brainer

[SisterNightroad]

Starshine: Upgrade

If you were my love: Downgrade from the Mirage outtake. Upgrade from the others.

Mabel Normand: Upgrade+++

Twisted: Upgrade ++

24 K gold: Upgrade

Belle fleur: Even (just because I love so much the bass intro otherwise it would be a bit downgrade)

All the beautiful world: Even (it's really slightly a downgrade but mainly because of Stevie's voice and it wouldn't be right to label it a downgrade. She made the best she could and even more with what she has, it would mean
asking the impossible to want for more than this)

Lady: Upgrade (but slightly)

Watch chain: Upgrade

Blue water: Even (I don't like the demo as I don't like the song so I don't care)

Cathouse blues: Upgrade (very slightly)

The dealer: Upgrade from all the demos BUT the one with Walter Egan

She loves him still: Upgrade

[dontlookdown]

Upgrade.
Song for song, this album is every bit as strong as
Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, and In Your Dreams.

Carousel, Watch Chain, and She Loves Him Still are
unnecessary and make the album feel bloated.
But remove those and you have a stellar Stevie Nicks album.
I love the band on this album and the way she recorded her
vocals is pretty sublime. Stronger singing than on In Your Dreams, for sure.

[Christopher]

Upgrade.
Song for song, this album is every bit as strong as
Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, and In Your Dreams.

Carousel, Watch Chain, and She Loves Him Still are
unnecessary and make the album feel bloated.
But remove those and you have a stellar Stevie Nicks album.
I love the band on this album and the way she recorded her
vocals is pretty sublime. Stronger singing than on In Your Dreams, for sure.

Every song re-recorded on 24 Karat Gold that was in bootleg circulation is an upgrade. Every single one :nod:

Had fans never heard these demos/outtakes ever before, they'd be even more over the moon than most already are about this record!

I really don't get the consternation regarding "If You Were My Love" that some have. It's a beauty. Here Stevie sounds haunted by someone, but she'd rather still keep dreaming about this forgone ghost of a past love that was all just a fantasy in her head. It's cinematic in style & sound. The lonesome, languid drum startles her reverie straight back to reality, but she'd rather go back to daydreaming of a love she wanted, but could not have. I believe Stevie has said in some old interviews that this song was written about Tom Petty around the time they first met and started working together & becoming "friends" during the making of Bella Donna. The lyrical impression of this song really is best suited towards the dreamy and haunting 24K arrangement than the slow/fast jarring "Mirage" demo/outtake that sounded reminiscent musically of "Tusk" esp. on the outro. FM, or Lindsey, just couldn't figure IYWML out. It took me about 10 listens to finally get this version. It is the best of any version. The production, the musical arrangement, & Stevies longing, sad vocal are perfection.

As far as the 24 Karat Gold being bloated, well, 24KG is a 16 track record, obviously. Even 14 tracks on the regular edition (without the 2 bonus tracks) could be judged as bloated. Though they smartly kept the running time on 10 of the 16 tracks under @4:30 minuntes which greatly helps things flow along nicely. I suppose Stevie wanted to get out as many of these demos as she possibly could in case there is not another opportunity. Dave did say she still has @2 albums of vault material to warrant more releases. I can name many more favorites that are still in "The Vault"
So even while technically "Watch Chain" is one of the 2 bonus tracks, it's the only song that feels unneccessary to me. Yes, I was never a big fan of "Watch Chain", the demo, but I was really impressed with the final version. It kicks ass. And Stevie sings it wonderfully. However, as much as I'm happy we have "Watch Chain" as a bonus song, after a solid month of repeated listings to 24KG, this song speaks the least to me. Also knowing it's about Mick does not help things. If I had to pick one song, Watch Chain is that one song that feels like filler. I now understand why it was relegated to bonus status.

Stevie surprisingly made "Carousel" her own. I didn't want to love it as much as I do. It's upbeat, irresistible, and beautiful.
And as far as "She Loves Him Still" - that is one of four to five solid favorites (along with Mabel, 24 Karat Gold, All The Beautiful Worlds, Lady) on this entire record. I could not do without this song. It ends the record beautifully. One of her best record ending ballads.

[Frankenstein]

Starshine - Upgrade

If You Were My Love - Even

Mabel Normand - Upgrade

Twisted - Downgrade

24 Karat Gold - Even... The demo was one of my favorite songs but I love this version too.

Belle Fleur - Upgrade

All the Beautiful Worlds - Even

Lady - Slight upgrade, only because I think it suits her older voice more.

Watch Chain - Upgrade

Blue Water - Downgrade

Cathouse Blues - Even

The Dealer - Downgrade

She Loves Him Still - Even

[sorcerer999]

Carousel, Watch Chain, and She Loves Him Still are
unnecessary and make the album feel bloated.



However, as much as I'm happy she released "Watch Chain" as a bonus song, after a month of listening to this record, this song speaks the least to me. And knowing it's about Mick doesn't help things. It the one song that feels the most like filler. I now understand that it was relegated to bonus status..

Hey now!!! The two of you just need to bite your tongues! Bite! Bite! BITE!!!:lol:

Just my opinion, but "Watch Chain" is just so much fun! How can you not rock out to this one? It breaks up some of the monotony on such a schizophrenic and heavy album. It fits perfectly in between the angry "I Don't Care" and the sad "Hard Advice".

Sometimes you just need FUN songs to sing along to. It's definitely not a song that Stevie wrote with the intention of it "speaking to people" on an emotional level. Think of it as "Angel", "Enchanted", "In Your Dreams" or any number of her songs that are meant to be just pure, FUN rock n roll! :nod::D