Title of "The Ledge"

[KenB]

I recently started wondering: Why does "The Ledge" (the song) have that title? Does anyone know?

[brickney723]

I recently started wondering: Why does "The Ledge" (the song) have that title? Does anyone know?

That's something I've wondered about too.. I have a theory, but that's all it is and it's based on zero evidence.

[TheWILDheart]

Why don't you ask Richard Dashut on his blog?

[FuzzyPlum]

That's something I've wondered about too.. I have a theory, but that's all it is and it's based on zero evidence.

...well? You cant say 'I have a theory' and then not explain it. I'm intrigued.

[louielouie2000]

I've always viewed the title as meaning Lindsey is metaphorically jumping off a ledge; taking a leap of faith if you will. I have never been able to decide if I think the song is about his relationship with Stevie ending, or his deciding to venture into a much more experimental music genre. It could be a hybrid of both. Either way, the title denotes a departure from status quo for Lindsey.

[brickney723]

Countin' on my fingers
Countin' on my toes
Slippin' thru your fingers
Watchin' how it grows
You can love me baby but you can't walk out
Someone oughta tell you what it's really all about
Do you ever wonder
Do you ever hate
Six feet under
Someone who can wait
You can love me baby but you can't walk out
Someone oughta tell you
Oughta tell you what it's really all about
You're never gonna make it baby
Oohh you're never gonna
Make it babe
Make it babe
Make it baby

Countin' on my fingers
Countin' on my toes
Slippin' thru the ringer
Watchin' how it goes
You can love me baby but you can't walk out
Someone oughta tell you what it's really all about
Buy another fixture
Tell another lie
Paint another picture
See who's surprised
You can love me baby but you can't walk out
Someone oughta
Someone oughta tell you what it's reallly all about
You're never gonna make it baby
Oohh you're never gonna make it baby
Oohh you're never gonna
Make it babe
Make it babe
Make it baby

You can love me baby but you can't walk out
You can love me baby but you can't walk out
You can love me baby but you can't walk out

Someone oughta someone oughta
Someone oughta someone oughta
Someone oughta someone oughta
Someone oughta someone oughta

You can love me baby but you can't walk out

Someone oughta tell you
Oughta tell you what it's really all about

Okay, so the song is about Stevie….
I think this song was one of what he calls his direct messages/dialogue to her- that she's making him crazy and he just might jump. How serious he was, idk.

[HelloMonster]

I've always viewed the title as meaning Lindsey is metaphorically jumping off a ledge; taking a leap of faith if you will. I have never been able to decide if I think the song is about his relationship with Stevie ending, or his deciding to venture into a much more experimental music genre. It could be a hybrid of both. Either way, the title denotes a departure from status quo for Lindsey.

¿Porque no los dos? ;)

[michelej1]

I've always viewed the title as meaning Lindsey is metaphorically jumping off a ledge; taking a leap of faith if you will.

Yes, I do think it's about being on the precipice of a decision, staying or going, succeeding or failing, and taking a chance. In that sense, it's not unlike Landslide.

Michele

[brickney723]

Why don't you ask Richard Dashut on his blog?

Well, I asked the question yesterday (I'm sure I'm not the only one), it'll be interesting to see if he answers.

[brickney723]

And.. here is his answer:

I believe at that time in his musical evolution he was in transition between Rumours & Tusk creatively. He knew he would have to stand on his own to make his ambitious vision for Tusk work, since everyone around him was still in Rumours mode. He must of felt like he was standing on a rather tall ledge, with the rest of the band and the label ready to push him off, if Tusk didn’t succeed like Rumours commercially. Those are my gut instincts on that subject, but don’t take it as the holy gospel.

[KenB]

Thanks for asking. Brickney. So, it seems Dashut agrees with other participants in this thread.

[brickney723]

Thanks for asking. Brickney. So, it seems Dashut agrees with other participants in this thread.

Yep, seems that way. However, the lyrics to that song don't seem to be about professional problems to me ..

[michelej1]

Thanks for asking. Brickney. So, it seems Dashut agrees with other participants in this thread.

And after the fact, it was all those WB Christmas bonus checks falling off the Ledge.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Yep, seems that way. However, the lyrics to that song don't seem to be about professional problems to me ..

Nor to me, either. They seem a pretty direct blast of anger at Stevie "you can love me baby, but you can't walk out" is pretty unambiguous.

[michelej1]

Nor to me, either. They seem a pretty direct blast of anger at Stevie "you can love me baby, but you can't walk out" is pretty unambiguous.

But he was addressing the title itself, not all of the content of the song.

Michele

[brickney723]

It may be the first song in the history of the world where the title isn't about the content.

[FuzzyPlum]

Okay, so the song is about Stevie….
I think this song was one of what he calls his direct messages/dialogue to her- that she's making him crazy and he just might jump. How serious he was, idk.

Sorry- I think if this is about anyone its probably more likely to have been about Carol Ann.
By this time they were living together and from what it sounds spending most of their time together. In Storms she claims to have been a muse for the Tusk songs. 'Buy another fixture' was probably related to her home-making. At around the time the song was written she was trying to break into modelling and (apparently) Lindsey wasn't happy about it. 'You're never gonna make it baby' is a possible reference to his attitude to her career. In Storms I think she claims this to have been the start of his (alleged) abusive behavior towards her- perhaps influencing the line 'You can love me baby but you cant walk out'.
Not sure what the title means though.

[brickney723]

Sorry- I think if this is about anyone its probably more likely to have been about Carol Ann.
By this time they were living together and from what it sounds spending most of their time together. In Storms she claims to have been a muse for the Tusk songs. 'Buy another fixture' was probably related to her home-making. At around the time the song was written she was trying to break into modelling and (apparently) Lindsey wasn't happy about it. 'You're never gonna make it baby' is a possible reference to his attitude to her career. In Storms I think she claims this to have been the start of his (alleged) abusive behavior towards her- perhaps influencing the line 'You can love me baby but you cant walk out'.
Not sure what the title means though.

If you've only read Carol's book, I can see why you would think that. But Lindsey has only ever commented on the subject matter of two of his Tusk songs- and only because he was directly asked what they were about. They are "That's Enough for Me" and "What Makes You Think You're the One" He says both were about Stevie.

[FuzzyPlum]

If you've only read Carol's book, I can see why you would think that. But Lindsey has only ever commented on the subject matter of two of his Tusk songs- and only because he was directly asked what they were about. They are "That's Enough for Me" and "What Makes You Think You're the One" He says both were about Stevie.

Fair enough. Out of interest do you know where and when he said that?

[brickney723]

Fair enough. Out of interest do you know where and when he said that?

Yes, if I wasn't leaving on vacation in two hours (and still packing!) I would post the links right away- and I still will later, but for now, "That's Enough for Me" was a quote given to American Songwriter- I believe in either 1992 or 1993- you could Google. And "What Makes You think You're the One" was from a radio interview in May 2012- where the interviewer says it's the greatest break up, screw you song of all time and he says- I have the quote - “Really, I think I was still working through my last little bits of issues with Stevie not that many years ago. You know, I was the one who had been left.” May 2012- that says it all, huh?

[brickney723]

Okay I quickly found the AS quote where he very reluctantly gives it up-

"That’s Enough For Me."

"Oh, yeah. I like that. Yeah. That’s like Stray Cats meets something from outer space. That’s a really heartfelt thing. I don’t know what to say about that. Sometimes it’s hard to comment on subject matter because it may have a specific reference for you and you sort of compose that over somebody else’s and it may just take away . . .That must have something to do with Stevie."

And here's the source:
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=145&c=9

[michelej1]

Sorry- I think if this is about anyone its probably more likely to have been about Carol Ann.
By this time they were living together and from what it sounds spending most of their time together. In Storms she claims to have been a muse for the Tusk songs.

Yes and she's not the only one, Stevie has commented that the "here because I say so" line was true for the person of whom he was speaking, so she assumed he was talking about Carol too.

Michele

[brickney723]

Yes and she's not the only one, Stevie has commented that the "here because I say so" line was true for the person of whom he was speaking, so she assumed he was talking about Carol too.

Michele

I'm pretty sure Stevie was talking about herself, not Carol Ann.

[michelej1]

Although he didn't talk about its meaning, I liked this comment of Lindsey's about The Ledge.

Actually one of my favorites is a crazy tune called The Ledge, which no one, you know everyone, even people that I respect in terms of their open-mindedness... There’s a guy named Ben Edmonds who works over at Capitol now and he’s been around us for a long time. He’s been one of our biggest fans, one of my biggest fans and one of Stevie’s for a long time, and he came up to me and he said, “What is that song?!” What could I say? It made sense to me. Finally about four months later he called me up on the phone and he says, “Hey I finally listened to that and I really...I got it!”

I'm pretty sure Stevie was talking about herself, not Carol Ann.

I don't agree and find that Stevie can identify herself in Lindsey songs using the first person, as she does when she says NGBA is about her. However, I know what you think the songs are about. I wasn't commenting on that.

Michele

[brickney723]

Although he didn't talk about its meaning, I liked this comment of Lindsey's about The Ledge.





I don't agree and find that Stevie can identify herself in Lindsey songs using the first person, as she does when she says NGBA is about her. However, I know what you think the songs are about. I wasn't commenting on that.

Michele

Well, Not That Funny is a bit of a nasty song, so I can see why she would put it that way. But everybody's got their opinion, to each their own.

[louielouie2000]

Sorry- I think if this is about anyone its probably more likely to have been about Carol Ann.
By this time they were living together and from what it sounds spending most of their time together. In Storms she claims to have been a muse for the Tusk songs. 'Buy another fixture' was probably related to her home-making. At around the time the song was written she was trying to break into modelling and (apparently) Lindsey wasn't happy about it. 'You're never gonna make it baby' is a possible reference to his attitude to her career. In Storms I think she claims this to have been the start of his (alleged) abusive behavior towards her- perhaps influencing the line 'You can love me baby but you cant walk out'.
Not sure what the title means though.

It very well could be about Carol Ann, but I'm still inclined to think it's primarily about Stevie, and to a degree, about Fleetwood Mac. Why? By the time Tusk writing & recording began in 1978, Lindsey & Carol Ann were still pretty much in the honeymoon phase from all accounts. The Ledge is about someone walking out on Lindsey, but at the same time they're bound together & can't truly be apart. Sounds like Stevie & FM to me. Where he's telling his subject to "paint another picture" it's probably regarding Stevie gossiping about Lindsey to her entourage/the band; or possibly her writing songs about Lindsey. I suspect the whole part about "you can't walk out" & "you're never gonna make it baby" is Lindsey daring Stevie to leave the band; that she'd never make it on her own without him to interpret her songs. "slipping through your fingers, watching how it grows" could be about how Lindsey has slipped away from Stevie's grasp, and has a budding relationship with Carol Ann.

All of this is speculation, of course... but my guess is the main target of the song is Stevie. I think Carol Ann & Fleetwood Mac are a part of the picture the filmmaker is painting, though. :p

[michelej1]

Sorry- I think if this is about anyone its probably more likely to have been about Carol Ann.
By this time they were living together and from what it sounds spending most of their time together. In Storms she claims to have been a muse for the Tusk songs.

This is Stevie's comment about "you're here because I say so," for instance and I think she intended to disparage his romance with Carol when she referred to air relationships.

The girls don't like that line. That's not a big line with the women here in America, but its ok because that's how he feels. To whom he is speaking to, it is true. I think that in this song that Lindsey is being very honest that he's angry and he's talking about some real kind of air relationships. I like to hear him talk about things because he's not a talker and he doesn't like to expound. He just figures either you understand or you're stupid.

[FuzzyPlum]

Okay I quickly found the AS quote where he very reluctantly gives it up-

"That’s Enough For Me."

"Oh, yeah. I like that. Yeah. That’s like Stray Cats meets something from outer space. That’s a really heartfelt thing. I don’t know what to say about that. Sometimes it’s hard to comment on subject matter because it may have a specific reference for you and you sort of compose that over somebody else’s and it may just take away . . .That must have something to do with Stevie."

And here's the source:
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=145&c=9

Thanks- a very interesting article-never read that before.
(I do take issue with the comment '... "Big Love," which he had finished on his own, and then allowed to be used for Tango In the Night. It was the only song that was a major hit from the album').

Sorry to be a cynic but I do wonder whether over the years meanings and references have occasionally been attributed towards Stevie for the sake of it in order to fuel the Lindsey/Stevie thing for commercial purposes- not necessarily in this case though.

PS, have a good trip.

[brickney723]

This is Stevie's comment about "you're here because I say so," for instance and I think she intended to disparage his romance with Carol when she referred to air relationships.

See, I'm pretty sure Stevie's talking about the zodiac signs- Libra (Lindsey) & Gemini (Stevie) are both air signs- air relationships.

[michelej1]

See, I'm pretty sure Stevie's talking about the zodiac signs- Libra (Lindsey) & Gemini (Stevie) are both air signs- air relationships.
Yes, I remember your past posts.

Michele

[brickney723]

Sorry to be a cynic but I do wonder whether over the years meanings and references have occasionally been attributed towards Stevie for the sake of it in order to fuel the Lindsey/Stevie thing for commercial purposes- not necessarily in this case though.

PS, have a good trip.

I think you're not alone in thinking so either. I've searched out everything going back to things from 30 years ago though and that really erased all doubt- at least as far as Lindsey is concerned. I kind of think Stevie could be milking it for that reason today though. I'm undecided.

[bombaysaffires]

But he was addressing the title itself, not all of the content of the song.

Michele

Agreed, but I was speaking to brickney's point

However, the lyrics to that song don't seem to be about professional problems to me ..

[FuzzyPlum]

I've just gone back and read some of Storms.
'...I knew that Lindsey had found the 'cutting edge' that we talked about during our New Wave listening parties'.
If he'd talked constantly about looking for a cutting edge, perhaps 'The Ledge' is just a derivative of this.
Just a thought.

[chiliD]

It may be the first song in the history of the world where the title isn't about the content.

Oh, not in the least...just right off the top of my head:

Bob Dylan's "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35", pre-dates "The Ledge" by about a dozen years.

There are probably so many others that it would take forever to count. :nod: