Prince co-write on Stand Back?

[welcomechris]

It seems like wherever I look, Prince is credited with Co-Writing "Stand Back". Is this true?

[KarmaContestant]

It seems like wherever I look, Prince is credited with Co-Writing "Stand Back". Is this true?

Technically, yes. He contributed a synth rhythm to the song.

[welcomechris]

Technically, yes. He contributed a synth rhythm to the song.

I've never heard that. I heard he Played the synth and thats it

[KarmaContestant]

I've never heard that. I heard he Played the synth and thats it

Same thing.

He walked in the studio, added a syth part that wasn't there before by playing it himself, and left.

He did not co-write the song, but what he did, technically, could have earned him a writing credit if he had really wanted it badly enough.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Last I knew Prince still got 50% of Stevie's royalties because she used his "Little red Corvette" melody for "Stand Back"...There's a "Little Red Corvette" / "Stand Back" mash up that's floating around...

[welcomechris]

"By the way, Prince did come into the studio the night I called him and told him about the song, and he played incredible synthesizer on it...and then he just walked out of my life, and I didn't see him for a long time."

Doesn't sound like he wrote it

[chiliD]

Doesn't sound like he wrote it

Well, if Stevie (insert one) borrowed, stole, used "Little Red Corvette" as the basis for "Stand Back", then it was probably a good idea to give him co-write credit from the beginning rather to drag through litigation for months and have to pay him all those royalties in back pay as well as other penalties & interest, which would come to a much larger sum than just giving him 50% songwriting credit. :nod:

[BlueDenimLamp]

Well, if Stevie (insert one) borrowed, stole, used "Little Red Corvette" as the basis for "Stand Back", then it was probably a good idea to give him co-write credit from the beginning rather to drag through litigation for months and have to pay him all those royalties in back pay as well as other penalties & interest, which would come to a much larger sum than just giving him 50% songwriting credit. :nod:

That's why she called him and told him she wrote a song based on "Little Red Corvette" she didn't want to go through another "Sara" legal battle...

[Jondalar]

He does not get songwriting royalties and credit for the song. He didn't want it. She offered.

[HoursAndHours]

Something like songwriting credit should be in public records, if anyone wants to look it up. I just think it's great that he played on it. She talks about it a little while introducing Stand Back in her VH1 Storytellers performance too.

[bombaysaffires]

He didn't just add a synth to a song she wrote.

She was listening to Little Red Corvette (in the car driving to her honeymoon, btw) and she basically just wrote lyrics over his music.

So he in fact wrote the music; she just put her melody and lyrics on top of it-- just like she does when say Mike Campbell or Sandy Stewart or whoever gives her a musical track. In those cases those people get half credit--they wrote the music (the chord progression, often the arrangement) and she wrote the lyrics. The Prince situation was no different. Except he'd already put his own melody and lyrics on it and had a hit song with it!

The previous poster is right-- he could have sued her a$$ over that.

[KarmaContestant]

"By the way, Prince did come into the studio the night I called him and told him about the song, and he played incredible synthesizer on it...and then he just walked out of my life, and I didn't see him for a long time."

Doesn't sound like he wrote it

You are too caught up with semantics. Prince made up the part - he wasn't playing a part that was written by someone else. If you, on the spot, made up a bass line and it was included in someone's song, you too could be considered to have written that bass line. That is what happend with Prince - he invented a syth beat that wasn't in the song before, played it, and Stevie kept it in there. Thus, technically, he wrote part of the song.

He doesn't have ANY writing credit (look at your album), but it doesn't mean that he didn't contribute to the writing of the song.


http://ebay.team-baker.com/tb/images/products/4462/additional_1.jpg

[Jondalar]

He didn't just add a synth to a song she wrote.

She was listening to Little Red Corvette (in the car driving to her honeymoon, btw) and she basically just wrote lyrics over his music.

So he in fact wrote the music; she just put her melody and lyrics on top of it-- just like she does when say Mike Campbell or Sandy Stewart or whoever gives her a musical track. In those cases those people get half credit--they wrote the music (the chord progression, often the arrangement) and she wrote the lyrics. The Prince situation was no different. Except he'd already put his own melody and lyrics on it and had a hit song with it!

The previous poster is right-- he could have sued her a$$ over that.

Stevie already discussed this a long time ago. She didn't steal anything. He did not want credit.

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie already discussed this a long time ago. She didn't steal anything. He did not want credit.

doesn't change the fact-- he wrote the music to the song, not her. If she had not offered, and had he not been so generous, he could certainly have sued. It is theft. He just chose to be gracious about it.

And just because you write a bass line for a song, as in the example someone gave above, does NOT make you entitled to a songwriting credit. If that were the case Waddy would be cowriter of all Stevie's songs for his original guitar parts. You have to have contributed substantially to the song basics-- chord progression, lyrics, melody to be a writer. Of course if someone wants to be generous and give writing credits to everyone they could.. but then in Stevie's case every song would have a million co-writers.

When you are hired as a musician that's what you are hired to do-- to add an original part to the arrangement i.e. taking the chord progression of the writer and putting your twist to it.

[KarmaContestant]

doesn't change the fact-- he wrote the music to the song, not her. If she had not offered, and had he not been so generous, he could certainly have sued. It is theft. He just chose to be gracious about it.

And just because you write a bass line for a song, as in the example someone gave above, does NOT make you entitled to a songwriting credit. If that were the case Waddy would be cowriter of all Stevie's songs for his original guitar parts. You have to have contributed substantially to the song basics-- chord progression, lyrics, melody to be a writer. Of course if someone wants to be generous and give writing credits to everyone they could.. but then in Stevie's case every song would have a million co-writers.

When you are hired as a musician that's what you are hired to do-- to add an original part to the arrangement i.e. taking the chord progression of the writer and putting your twist to it.

Except he didn't write the music for Stand Back. The instrumentation of Stand Back and Red Corvette are totally different. The lyrics for one can be hummed over the other because one is based on the other, that doesn't mean they are the same instrumentals, and it certainly doesn't mean that Prince wrote the music for the song. Quite a stretch, there.

If Prince had wanted writing credit, he could have got it, as could any musician who contributes an original part. It's all in the contract and the details agreed upon between the two parties. I never said it makes you entitled to songwriting credit - I said that technically, that musician has written a part of the song and could press for songwriting credit.

[KarmaContestant]

https://soundcloud.com/#kwes-chenebel/little-red-corvette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CCPLCnICzc

The instrumentals of Little Red Corvette and Stand Back, for comparison.

[Jondalar]

Except he didn't write the music for Stand Back. The instrumentation of Stand Back and Red Corvette are totally different. The lyrics for one can be hummed over the other because one is based on the other, that doesn't mean they are the same instrumentals, and it certainly doesn't mean that Prince wrote the music for the song. Quite a stretch, there.

If Prince had wanted writing credit, he could have got it, as could any musician who contributes an original part. It's all in the contract and the details agreed upon between the two parties. I never said it makes you entitled to songwriting credit - I said that technically, that musician has written a part of the song and could press for songwriting credit.

Right. She wrote a counter song inside of his song. If she stole the song then it would sound like Little Red Corvette.

[sorcerer999]

There are some bands (U2 for example) that come together and create a song which all 4 band members share the credit.

Then there are some solo artists, like Stevie, who write a song on piano or guitar or whatever. They essentially write the lyrics and melody (the skeleton of the song, if you will) and later have other musicians flesh out drums, bass, synth, strings, etc. These musicians (bass, guitars, etc) essentially are only creating "counter melodies" and the drummer is only really creating the rhythm cycle that compliment the original song. They don't get songwriting credit because they didn't write the words or the melody, which is really the only thing BMI/ASCAP, etc cares about when submitting a song to be copy written.

If this were not the case, then there would be no such thing as a "recorded and released" song solely by Stevie. Each song would share co-writing credits with Lindsey, Waddy, Benmont, Roy, etc. But such is not the case.

Stevie has always been one to give credit where it is due. Roy Bittan wrote the bridge to "Think About It" and is credited. Sandy Stewart gets credited for writing the music to "Nightbird", "If Anyone Falls", etc.

I agree with KarmaContestant that the melody for "Stand Back" bears no resemblance to the melody for "Little Red Corvette". Sure you can sing the chorus of both songs over each other, but that's only because the notes fit the melody...and one can do that with ANY song if they think about it. Try singing the lyrics to MGMT's "Kids" over the music of Coldplay's "Life In Technicolor". It fits perfectly. Yet they are two different melodies.

Sorry to rant, but like Jondalar said, Stevie gave Prince the option of being CREDITED as a co-writer, since she was "inspired" by LRC , but he declined the CREDIT. Still pretty sure he's getting paid royalties for it though, because he played on it.

[BlueDenimLamp]

From the "Stand Back" wiki.Stand Back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_Back)

Nicks has often told the story of how she wrote the song. She wrote it shortly after she was married to Kim Anderson. The newlyweds were driving up to San Ysidro Ranch in Santa Barbara when Prince's song "Little Red Corvette" came on the radio. Nicks started humming along to the melody, especially inspired by the lush synthesizers of the song, and "Stand Back" was born. They stopped and got a tape recorder and she recorded the demo in the honeymoon suite that night. Later, when Nicks went into the studio to record the song, she called Prince and told him the story of how she wrote the song to his melody. He came to the studio that night and played synthesizers on it, although his contribution is uncredited on the album. Then, she says, "he just got up and left as if the whole thing happened in a dream."[1] According to U.S. Copyright Office records, Prince is officially a co-writer of the song, even though he is only occasionally credited as such.[2]

[TheWILDheart]

Wasn't there something mentioned forever ago about her writing the lyrics to "When Doves Cry" as a thank you for "Stand Back" or am I totally dreaming?

[sorcerer999]

Wasn't there something mentioned forever ago about her writing the lyrics to "When Doves Cry" as a thank you for "Stand Back" or am I totally dreaming?

No. He sent her the track for "Purple Rain" and wanted her to write the lyrics. She was too intimidated by the "epic-ness" of it all and sent it back to him, saying she couldn't do it.

[sorcerer999]

http://www.nme.com/news/stevie-nicks/59268

[bombaysaffires]

There are some bands (U2 for example) that come together and create a song which all 4 band members share the credit.

Then there are some solo artists, like Stevie, who write a song on piano or guitar or whatever. They essentially write the lyrics and melody (the skeleton of the song, if you will) and later have other musicians flesh out drums, bass, synth, strings, etc. These musicians (bass, guitars, etc) essentially are only creating "counter melodies" and the drummer is only really creating the rhythm cycle that compliment the original song. They don't get songwriting credit because they didn't write the words or the melody, which is really the only thing BMI/ASCAP, etc cares about when submitting a song to be copy written.

If this were not the case, then there would be no such thing as a "recorded and released" song solely by Stevie. Each song would share co-writing credits with Lindsey, Waddy, Benmont, Roy, etc. But such is not the case.

Stevie has always been one to give credit where it is due. Roy Bittan wrote the bridge to "Think About It" and is credited. Sandy Stewart gets credited for writing the music to "Nightbird", "If Anyone Falls", etc.

I agree with KarmaContestant that the melody for "Stand Back" bears no resemblance to the melody for "Little Red Corvette". Sure you can sing the chorus of both songs over each other, but that's only because the notes fit the melody...and one can do that with ANY song if they think about it. Try singing the lyrics to MGMT's "Kids" over the music of Coldplay's "Life In Technicolor". It fits perfectly. Yet they are two different melodies.

Sorry to rant, but like Jondalar said, Stevie gave Prince the option of being CREDITED as a co-writer, since she was "inspired" by LRC , but he declined the CREDIT. Still pretty sure he's getting paid royalties for it though, because he played on it.

I agree with most of your post, but if he's getting royalties it's because he's getting credit as a writer. as a musician you get paid for your services and that's it.

She wrote a NEW melody to HIS chord progression, that's why SHE would get half credit and he the other. On the version that is HIS music and HIS lyrics/melody, he gets full credit. No one is saying she didn't create a melody, but she built it off his music and chord progression, that is why he would have written half of it and why she could not list herself as sole writer (music and lyrics). for whatever reason he has said he doesn't want/need the public recognition on the label, but if he's getting royalties, he is indeed listed as cowriter on the legal paperwork.

Roy Bittan got credit because he rewrote a whole section of her song.
Sandy Stewart gets credit NOT for "performing" the music but because she WROTE the music. She wrote it, Stevie listened to the tracks and wrote a melody/lyrics on top of it. Same with Rick Nowels, Mike Campbell and others who have cowriter credit. Neale Heywood wrote the music to New Orleans. If Stevie writes the music and the lyrics/melody, and someone helps her refine it, then there can be a bit of a grey area about do you give them credit or not.. and it's a bit of a judgement call based on how different the song would be without that additional part. For example, Stevie claimed c0-writing credit on Seven Wonders, which was written music and lyrics/melody by Sandy Stewart. Stevie rewrote (actually mis-understood Sandy's lyrics) from "all the way down the line" to what we hear on the record "All the way down to emmeline" which frankly doesn't change the song at ALL, but she claimed co credit and got it because she's Stevie but Sandy was NOT pleased to give up half her royalties. (edited to say she may not have gotten half).

Also, Stevie heard a Tom Petty track (by accident, it was on a tape Mike Campbell gave her) and she wrote lyrics and melody to it and took it to Fleetwood Mac. Tom Petty heard, was furious, and in her words, called her screaming at her that she could NOT use that music-- she had not asked his permission, and it's his intellectual property. He told her she had to give it back. She tells the story of how she had to go back to FM and in her words "tell them I was a thief" (a little humor on her part) and that FM could not use the song because she did not write the music AND more importantly did not have Tom's permission to use his music (if he had said ok she could have used it, would have had to list him as cowriter and paid him half the royalties). Prince could have done the same thing, but he did not.

[Jondalar]

Except he didn't write the music for Stand Back. The instrumentation of Stand Back and Red Corvette are totally different. The lyrics for one can be hummed over the other because one is based on the other, that doesn't mean they are the same instrumentals, and it certainly doesn't mean that Prince wrote the music for the song. Quite a stretch, there.

If Prince had wanted writing credit, he could have got it, as could any musician who contributes an original part. It's all in the contract and the details agreed upon between the two parties. I never said it makes you entitled to songwriting credit - I said that technically, that musician has written a part of the song and could press for songwriting credit.

From the "Stand Back" wiki.Stand Back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_Back)

Nicks has often told the story of how she wrote the song. She wrote it shortly after she was married to Kim Anderson. The newlyweds were driving up to San Ysidro Ranch in Santa Barbara when Prince's song "Little Red Corvette" came on the radio. Nicks started humming along to the melody, especially inspired by the lush synthesizers of the song, and "Stand Back" was born. They stopped and got a tape recorder and she recorded the demo in the honeymoon suite that night. Later, when Nicks went into the studio to record the song, she called Prince and told him the story of how she wrote the song to his melody. He came to the studio that night and played synthesizers on it, although his contribution is uncredited on the album. Then, she says, "he just got up and left as if the whole thing happened in a dream."[1] According to U.S. Copyright Office records, Prince is officially a co-writer of the song, even though he is only occasionally credited as such.[2]

So the record company just decided not to include as a cowriter. Wouldn't they make sure of that. Can I see that copyright, not wickepedi a?

[WildHearted]

Except he didn't write the music for Stand Back. The instrumentation of Stand Back and Red Corvette are totally different. The lyrics for one can be hummed over the other because one is based on the other, that doesn't mean they are the same instrumentals, and it certainly doesn't mean that Prince wrote the music for the song. Quite a stretch, there.

If Prince had wanted writing credit, he could have got it, as could any musician who contributes an original part. It's all in the contract and the details agreed upon between the two parties. I never said it makes you entitled to songwriting credit - I said that technically, that musician has written a part of the song and could press for songwriting credit.

Not really. "Songwriting" from a copyright standpoint is the melody as it relates to the underlying chord progression. The arrangement is a separate entity altogether. If the person who wrote the chord progression/melody/lyrics wanted to voluntarily give a person who came up with an instrumental line or whatever a portion of the songwriting credit, they could, yes, that's true; Just like Stevie did for Lindsey's guitar solo in Frozen Love. Just Like Chris, Stevie, and Lindsey did for Mick and John in The Chain. You could also give Joe Blow that wasn't even there for the session a credit if everyone involved agreed to it. But on their own the session player (essentially what we're talking about here) wouldn't be able to claim a songwriting credit because their contribution is part of the arranging and not the songwriting process, if all they actually did was come up with an instrumental part (bass line, etc).

This is why Stevie gets sole credit for her songs on Rumours, Tusk, etc, even though she obviously wasn't coming up with the drum beat or the bass line or the piano parts or any of that.

However, Stand Back is a different case because beyond just playing on the track, Prince wrote the underlying chord progression from which Stevie's melody was derived. She initially wrote the song over his already recorded track. They ended up sounding totally different, but we wouldn't have had Stand Back if it weren't for Little Red Corvette, therefore it's not unreasonable for him to have been offered (or recieved) a co-write. The same way that Dave Stewart played random chords and Stevie made up melodies over them for her songs on In Your Dreams and Dave received a credit for having written the music. Stevie came up with the melodies, but we wouldn't have had those melodies without Dave's chords.

[HoursAndHours]

So the record company just decided not to include as a cowriter. Wouldn't they make sure of that. Can I see that copyright, not wickepedi a?

You can see it on the Copyright Office's website. It's in with document number V2425P459-492, listed as Stevie Nicks and Prince. It wasn't filed until 1989, so I wonder if the version with him playing it is actually not the version used on the record.

[sorcerer999]

Roy Bittan got credit because he rewrote a whole section of her song.
Sandy Steward gets credit NOT for "performing" the music but because she WROTE the music.

Agreed. Which is what I was said before. I never alluded to the fact that they're credited simply for "performing" on the song. Roy wrote a new bridge and Sandy wrote ALL the music, which is why they are both credited for being Co-Writers.

[Jondalar]

You can see it on the Copyright Office's website. It's in with document number V2425P459-492, listed as Stevie Nicks and Prince. It wasn't filed until 1989, so I wonder if the version with him playing it is actually not the version used on the record.

I'm sure she would give him credit if he wanted credit. It's fishy he is never listed as cowriter

[bombaysaffires]

Agreed. Which is what I was said before. I never alluded to the fact that they're credited simply for "performing" on the song. Roy wrote a new bridge and Sandy wrote ALL the music, which is why they are both credited for being Co-Writers.

you're right, my bad. I read your post as saying Sandy played when you said Sandy wrote.

[HoursAndHours]

I'm sure she would give him credit if he wanted credit. It's fishy he is never listed as cowriter

People go uncredited in liner notes all the time. His name is on the copyright, so he's almost assuredly getting paid.

As a long time Prince fan, this whole story suggests to me that Stevie is one of the women that Prince really respects on her own artistic terms - in that he never tried to produce her, or make her one of his "protogés."

[Jondalar]

You can see it on the Copyright Office's website. It's in with document number V2425P459-492, listed as Stevie Nicks and Prince. It wasn't filed until 1989, so I wonder if the version with him playing it is actually not the version used on the record.

I'm sure she would give him credit if he wanted credit. It's fishy he is never listed as cowriter

[Johnny Stew]

I'm sure she would give him credit if he wanted credit. It's fishy he is never listed as cowriter

It's not fishy at all. Stevie has said on several occasions that Prince has repeatedly declined a co-writer credit.

And, come on, we're talking about Prince here. If he wanted a co-writing credit in the liner notes of Stevie's various releases, he would most assuredly have it.

[Jondalar]

So wants a copyright but no credit, yeah that's pretty fishy.

[Jondalar]

She is the sole owner of the 1983 copyright which is probably why he is not getting credit on her greatest hits.

[HoursAndHours]

So wants a copyright but no credit, yeah that's pretty fishy.

It's not that fishy, it happens fairly frequently. Probably an element of, "sure, I'll take my cut, but let's not put my name on it, and all the subsequent marketing, legal, and media issues that come with that."

[bombaysaffires]

It's not that fishy, it happens fairly frequently. Probably an element of, "sure, I'll take my cut, but let's not put my name on it, and all the subsequent marketing, legal, and media issues that come with that."

and he was in her thrall…wanting to have relationship and all… so who knows how that impacts your decisions ;)

[saintbernard]

This reminds me a little of the situation with Rick Vito and Bob Seger with "Like a Rock". Seger wrote the song and has sole writing credits whenever I see them listed anywhere. However, the part of the song that it is probably most known for, that amazing slide guitar solo that you heard on all the Chevy commercials was written and performed by Rick Vito.

Several years ago, Rick gave an interview for a magazine where he talked about the recording sessions for Like a Rock. They worked on the song for a long time trying to get it just right but something was always missing from each of the takes. Bob asked Rick if there was anything he could think of that could help. Rick took his guitar over into the corner and played around for about five minutes. When he came back, they tried it again and Rick played what he worked up over in the corner in one take. Bob knew the minute he heard it that the solo was perfect and exactly what the song needed. The rest is history. chiliD could probably name the exact interview and date of it better than I can. I want to say it was an interview for Gibson online but I'm not positive of that and I don't have the interview anymore.

Just like with Prince and Stand Back, Rick doesn't get writing credits on Like a Rock with Bob Seger even though he is the one who came up with that solo. He played it and he wrote it but he was just one of Bob's session players at the time. While it didn't earn him co-writing credits, and royalties, that solo did earn him a place on the Like a Rock tour that year and on every Seger album since as well as padding his reputation as a guitar player.

And, come on, we're talking about Prince here. If he wanted a co-writing credit in the liner notes of Stevie's various releases, he would most assuredly have it.

Agreed. We're talking about someone here who has actually sued his own fans over fan sites. I think if there was a major beef between Prince and Stevie over Stand Back/Little Red Corvette it would have been solved the way he wanted it solved. We most certainly would have heard about it, I think.

[chiliD]

It's not fishy at all. Stevie has said on several occasions that Prince has repeatedly declined a co-writer credit.

And, come on, we're talking about Prince here. If he wanted a co-writing credit in the liner notes of Stevie's various releases, he would most assuredly have it.

Prince is notorious for putting out work under pseudonyms, as well. So, if he wanted the OFFICIAL credit, he could've gotten it.

Remember, around the same time frame, he WHOLLY wrote The Bangles hit "Manic Monday" and used a pseudonym. (and if I recall correctly, he did the same for the Sinead O'Connor hit, too).

Plus, I think it was the first album by The Time was completely a Prince penned album...under multiple assumed names.

[HoursAndHours]

He just played on it. You usually don't get a co-writing credit for that. If that were the case, Waddy would be the co-writer of most of her songs.
Stevie spent a minimal amount of time with Prince; it was a very brief debauched coke-fueled encounter.

He didn't really "just play on it." He wrote the music that formed the basis of the song. She wrote words over his music, by her own admission. Then he came and added more of his music to to her new arrangement of his music. This is not like Stevie's other songs where she writes the music on a piano or guitar or something and a session player fills in the gaps.

If he had wanted credit, he could easily have got it. Even if she hadn't offered, he could easily have sued, her, and he likely would have won. Copyright and authorship are a very strange legal animal. For an example of how bad it can get, read up on the case of Bittersweet Symphony involving the Verve and the Rolling Stones.

[bombaysaffires]

He didn't really "just play on it." He wrote the music that formed the basis of the song. She wrote words over his music, by her own admission. Then he came and added more of his music to to her new arrangement of his music. This is not like Stevie's other songs where she writes the music on a piano or guitar or something and a session player fills in the gaps.

If he had wanted credit, he could easily have got it. Even if she hadn't offered, he could easily have sued, her, and he likely would have won. Copyright and authorship are a very strange legal animal. For an example of how bad it can get, read up on the case of Bittersweet Symphony involving the Verve and the Rolling Stones.

Yes. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp.:shrug:

[HelloMonster]

Can I just say how much I LOVE Little Red Corvette? :D And Stand Back is one of my favorite solo Stevie songs (but I'm ready for a different song to be brought to the fm stage.) I'm happy her and Prince worked together, period.

[welcomechris]

Can I just say how much I LOVE Little Red Corvette? :D And Stand Back is one of my favorite solo Stevie songs (but I'm ready for a different song to be brought to the fm stage.) I'm happy her and Prince worked together, period.

Except on the case of "All Over You"

[Phil]

Originally posted by welcomechris

Except on the case of "All Over You"

... except they didn't.

[welcomechris]

Originally posted by welcomechris



... except they didn't.

Some say they didn't, and I hope they didn't but some say they did some say they didn't sing it

[KarmaContestant]

Yes. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp.:shrug:

Because you can listen to the instrumental tracks - I linked them - give it a try - and they are not the same. Clearly not the same. So, no, she didn't write words over his music. It may have started that way in her head, but the track released was not the music to Little Red corvette with Stevie's lyrics.

And I'll say it again - just because Prince did not get writing credit, does not mean he didn't "write" the part he played.

Just because Rick Vito did not get writing credit on Like A Rock, doesn't mean that he didn't write the guitar solo he played.

Credits don't determine who did what - they just give credit to the folks who are getting paid. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.

:rolleyes:

The whole point of the thread was to ask if Prince wrote part of Stand Back, and he did, whether it was credited or not.

[HoursAndHours]

So, no, she didn't write words over his music. It may have started that way in her head, but the track released was not the music to Little Red corvette with Stevie's lyrics.



Yes, she absolutely did. She said that's what she did. He's on the copyright. That's just what happened, sorry.

[KarmaContestant]

Yes, she absolutely did. She said that's what she did. He's on the copyright. That's just what happened, sorry.

Clearly, you have not listened to the instrumental tracks. They aren't the same. They just aren't, sorry, and no matter how condescending you are, that isn't going to change.

[HoursAndHours]

Clearly, you have not listened to the instrumental tracks. They aren't the same. They just aren't, sorry, and no matter how condescending you are, that isn't going to change.

Yes, I have, and I'm still correct. To be more clear, she wrote it over Little Red Corvette. She then recorded her own arrangement, but it's still his music. No amount of comparing instrumental tracks will change this.

[sorcerer999]

Okay, kids! Play nice! Why not just "agree to disagree" on such an innocuous issue?

[Jondalar]

Yes, I have, and I'm still correct. To be more clear, she wrote it over Little Red Corvette. She then recorded her own arrangement, but it's still his music. No amount of comparing instrumental tracks will change this.

It is not his music. It was inspired by his music. The music is totally different. If she would of never told that story, no one would of known.

[KarmaContestant]

To be more clear, she wrote it over Little Red Corvette. She then recorded her own arrangement,

Simply a difference of semantics. We agree.

[HoursAndHours]

It is not his music. It was inspired by his music. The music is totally different. If she would of never told that story, no one would of known.

Well, sort of. He is legally entitled to share the copyright, which he obviously does, based on writing the original structure (and for the melodies he added). Stevie "wrote" the current arrangement. If he ever sues her, he will win, especially with that video of her admission, and since his share of the copyright has been uncontested for 15 years.

Who knows why he waited until 1989 to file the copyright, that's the part that interests me.

[HoursAndHours]

Simply a difference of semantics. We agree.

Yes, I think we do. I don't think that Stand Back is just an instrumental of Little Red Corvette with her words on it, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jondalar]

Well, sort of. He is legally entitled to share the copyright, which he obviously does, based on writing the original structure (and for the melodies he added). Stevie "wrote" the current arrangement. If he ever sues her, he will win, especially with that video of her admission, and since his share of the copyright has been uncontested for 15 years.

Who knows why he waited until 1989 to file the copyright, that's the part that interests me.

He won't win for that reason. Being inspired to write a song from listening to another song happens all the time. Where does Little Red Corvette and Stand Back overlap? She didn't have to give him copyright for that. What did she steal?

[bombaysaffires]

It is not his music. It was inspired by his music. The music is totally different. If she would of never told that story, no one would of known.

the music IS the same……it's the same chords in the same progression. they are ARRANGED differently. She even says so herself, yet you keep arguing about it. Go watch her Storytellers, she even says if you listen to her song and you listen to Little Red Corvette you will hear how it fits right in there. HoursandHours is right.

[HoursAndHours]

He won't win for that reason. Being inspired to write a song from listening to another song happens all the time. Where does Little Red Corvette and Stand Back overlap? She didn't have to give him copyright for that. What did she steal?

Again, it's more than that. They don't have to overlap or sound the same at all for it to still be his music (in terms of copyright). His music is the entire artistic basis of her song. It's one thing to listen to a song and be inspired to write your own words and your own music. It is a completely different thing (in terms of copyright legality) to write your own song over someone else's and then write a new musical arrangement.

I agree that if she'd never told the story, it would be a different ball game entirely. Proving it without that would be quite difficult.

[chiliD]

Proving it without that would be quite difficult.

Ok, if you think it would be "quite difficult", I'd like to hear/read your take of the Chiffons' "He's So Fine" & George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord". Apparently, there was NO difficulty proving plagiarism in that case; yet, I hear infinitely more likeness between "LRC" & "Stand Back" than I do in the case that George Harrison LOST. :cool:

[michelej1]

This thread made me think of that funny interview she did with Jim Ladd about Stand Back. She did talk about humming along to Little Red Corvette, but she also talked about the words to SB and Jim teasingly asked her what was going on in the lyrics. He said, either this guy was blind or a homosexual or what. Why wasn't he picking up on your signals? Something was going on. You have to start working on your technique.

Stevie was like, no, no, no. That's not how it was. And Jim said, "yes it was" and Stevie disagreed and said that she couldn't say what "Stand Back" was about; it was about a lot of different things pulled in together, not just one.

Michele

[Jondalar]

Well, sort of. He is legally entitled to share the copyright, which he obviously does, based on writing the original structure (and for the melodies he added). Stevie "wrote" the current arrangement. If he ever sues her, he will win, especially with that video of her admission, and since his share of the copyright has been uncontested for 15 years.

Who knows why he waited until 1989 to file the copyright, that's the part that interests me.

the music IS the same……it's the same chords in the same progression. they are ARRANGED differently. She even says so herself, yet you keep arguing about it. Go watch her Storytellers, she even says if you listen to her song and you listen to Little Red Corvette you will hear how it fits right in there. HoursandHours is right.

Fits right in there. Not over his words. That was what I was thinking of. It is not the same music. Stevie should sue over the song mmmmbop.

[bombaysaffires]

This thread made me think of that funny interview she did with Jim Ladd about Stand Back. She did talk about humming along to Little Red Corvette, but she also talked about the words to SB and Jim teasingly asked her what was going on in the lyrics. He said, either this guy was blind or a homosexual or what. Why wasn't he picking up on your signals? Something was going on. You have to start working on your technique.

Stevie was like, no, no, no. That's not how it was. And Jim said, "yes it was" and Stevie disagreed and said that she couldn't say what "Stand Back" was about; it was about a lot of different things pulled in together, not just one.

Michele

In some interview with her she said the original title was "Stranded" not "Stand Back"-- she eventually changed it /tweaked it because the way it breaks into two syllables it sounded like "stran-dead" so "Stand Back" sounded better.
But originally the lyric was "stranded in the middle of my room, I did not hear from you" which doesn't change the overall meaning but "stranded" does convey more of a sense of despair or whatever than "stand back" which sounds more aggressive or angry. So sometimes the original meaning gets a little murky with the musical/production choices to turn it into a hit single.

[michelej1]

But originally the lyric was "stranded in the middle of my room, I did not hear from you" which doesn't change the overall meaning but "stranded" does convey more of a sense of despair or whatever than "stand back" which sounds more aggressive or angry.

But I don't think the song suggests that she's actually telling people to "stand back" or "keep away." I do think you get the sense that the fact that no one can get close, is the reality, but not the desire.

I think with the "I need a little sympathy" you do get a sense of desperation. Like, "this is not my choice. I can bend. I can compromise." So many admirers, but not a drop to drink.

P.S. That's a good call not to sing strand-ded, strand-ded incessantly. When words and pronunciation are contorted to shape the music like that, it can detract from the song.

Michele

[KarmaContestant]

P.S. That's a good call not to sing strand-ded, strand-ded incessantly. When words and pronunciation are contorted to shape the music like that, it can detract from the song.

Michele

Like "They say she had-ed everything" in No Spoken Word.

[Johnny Stew]

Like "They say she had-ed everything" in No Spoken Word.

I've always heard that as, "they say she had it; everything."

[KarmaContestant]

I've always heard that as, "they say she had it; everything."

:laugh: That's what I tell myself, too, and is probably what she's really saying.

[HoursAndHours]

:laugh: That's what I tell myself, too, and is probably what she's really saying.

I really wish she'd pull this one out for her shows. I think it could even open her set, tbh.