Favorite pre 75 album?

[cabwinn]

Mystery to me for me

Love Hypnotized & For your love ;):cool:

[louielouie2000]

I love the Bob Welch era albums, but Mystery To Me is certainly special. It's sort of like the pre '75 Rumours- every single song is worth it's weight in gold.

That being said, I also adore the warty imperfection of Penguin, too.

[chriskisn]

Penguin, Mystery to Me and Heroes are Hard to Find. Great set of three albums...

[BombaySapphire3]

Bare Trees closely followed by Mystery to Me.

[chiliD]

ALL OF THEM!!!!

And, I MEAN, every damned one of them!!! :nod:

[Danigirl]

Mystery To Me! Forever, Hypnotized, and Why are my favorites.

[Rubber Duck]

Then Play On is obsolutely outstanding! :D

To be honest, I can´t even understand how anyone could think otherwise...
...but, then, when they lost Peter Green they became a different band, of course.

[sorcerer999]

"Bare Trees" all the way!!!! :)

[librax2]

Has to be "Then Plan On"

[nightbird28]

Mystery to Me has always been my favorite with Heroes are hard to find a close second. After that Then Play On.

[HomerMcvie]

MTM is the one that SHOULD have catapulted them into the stratosphere!

[BLY]

Mystery to Me if I had to only pick just one. :D

[doodyhead]

Then Play On

[Mr Scarrott]

It's got to be Then Play On. There are some utterly sublime, heartbreaking moments on that album. Even the Madges have grown on me over the years. But if I could build a time machine, the first thing that I would do after getting next week's lottery numbers would be to go back to 1969 and try and have a quiet word with Danny about When You Say.

After that, it's Mystery to Me, then the spacey ambiance of most of Future Games does it for me, Fleetwood Mac, Bare Trees, Penguin, Kiln House, Heroes, and then Mr Wonderful , which I hate to rank last because Peter's stuff is great.

I really have never understood the bad press that Penguin gets. Excise Roadrunner and it's fine.

[dino]

Then Play On, the first album and Bare Trees. As for Penguin, I like Roadrunner :)

[TrueFaith77]

Future Games
and close second: Bare Trees

[Dex]

Bare Trees is possibly the best album released under the FM name.

[aleuzzi]

Kiln House is my favorite Mac album after the white album and Rumours.

Then Play On is right behind it.

The 71-74 stuff is all very rewarding though, to various degrees, uneven. If I had to pick a favorite of that time it'd be Penguin. But I couldn't live without certain songs from all of those records.

[aleuzzi]

Bare Trees is possibly the best album released under the FM name.

I do love Kirwan's stuff on that--and only wish Trinity was included on it somewhere. Child of Mine still catches fire. And Dust is perfection.

[Dreamz19]

If I must choose one, it would be Heroes are Hard to Find.

I also really like Then Play On, Bare Trees, MTM, Kiln House and Future Games.

[shackin'up]

Oh, Then Play On. But I basicly like them all (sans Penguin, maybe) better than Tango In The Night, Behind The Mask and Time.

[Dex]

Oh, Then Play On. But I basicly like them all (sans Penguin, maybe) better than Tango In The Night, Behind The Mask and Time.

It pays to set the bar low. :laugh:;)

[FuzzyPlum]

Hi All,
1) Mystery To Me- consistently high quality.
2) Bare Trees- Needed to have Trinity as a closer to side one.
3) Heroes Are Hard to Find- I've been listening to this a lot recently. It recently struck me that Christines four songs here are all great. I never used to think much of Bad Loser but I can now even appreciate that too. She really was approaching her song crafting maturity by this album. Its a pity HAHTF features what I feel to be a couple of Bob Welch's weakest offerings.

4) Future Games- such a dreamy album. I've genuinely never been into drugs and would never condone their use but I could imagine this being an ideal album for those so inclined to chill out to under a tree on a hot sunny day. sadly just too short as an album.

[moon]

Bare Trees, because it's the last piece of art from the Kirwan-Welch-McVie work. It has really high moments, with Child of Mine, Sunny Side of Heaven, Sentimental Lady, and Spare Me A Little.

Penguin, because is the forgotten one from the Welch-McVie days. Remember Me, Bright Fire, Did you ever love me? and the underrated Bob Weston's gem Caught in the Rain are the highest moments here.

I would include Mystery to Me for its energy and songs like Emerald Eyes, Hypnotized and Forever.

Regards!
Mark.

[slipkid]

It's the first album titled "Fleetwood Mac", and "Then Play On". Despite the fact I love the song "Hypnotized", the newly remastered TPO on CD released last year should settle all arguments. TPO juxtaposed Rumours. It's why both versions of the band are in the RnR Hall of Fame.

While I have a pop FM GH's CD in my collection, My band died when Danny Kirwan was fired. Bare Trees was the last of the first era of FM. While Mick Fleetwood was happy making money hand over fist with his new pop band in 1975, he missed the blues version, sorry.

[jbrownsjr]

It pays to set the bar low. :laugh:;)

Haha!! great one..

[jbrownsjr]

Mystery To Me or Heroes... so close...

[On Ice]

Hard to decide, all of these albums are great. I'm going with Future Games, such rich arrangements, performed to perfection. This line up showed so much promise and Sometimes should be right up there with any song by Badfinger or America as a top single of the early 70's although edited down about 1 minute for the radio. There is nobody in the world of rock and roll as under appreciated than Danny Kirwan. At least Station Man gets its due on satellite radio. Christine McVie also wrote two of her best songs on the album, so diverse and sung with conviction, "perfect". Bob Welch also gave his best performance with the band on the title track. Future Games is a desert island record.

[chiliD]

I Excise Roadrunner and it's fine.

Exactly! A better choice would've been a cover of the Temptations' "Can't Get Next To You". Sure, Dave already had done it on Savoy Brown's Street Corner Talking album just prior to joining FMac, but it is a much stronger song all around.

I've experimented by making a playlist on my iPod subbing "CGNTY" for "Roadrunner" and it flows a whole lot better.

[slipkid]

Hard to decide, all of these albums are great. I'm going with Future Games, such rich arrangements, performed to perfection. This line up showed so much promise and Sometimes should be right up there with any song by Badfinger or America as a top single of the early 70's although edited down about 1 minute for the radio. There is nobody in the world of rock and roll as under appreciated than Danny Kirwan. At least Station Man gets its due on satellite radio. Christine McVie also wrote two of her best songs on the album, so diverse and sung with conviction, "perfect". Bob Welch also gave his best performance with the band on the title track. Future Games is a desert island record.


Bob Welch's song,"Future Games" was his best work in FM, until "Sentimental Lady"(Bare Trees).

These albums were around in the late 1980's in America. Again, Mick Fleetwood made sure the early Fleetwood Mac would not be uncovered until the "Rumours" band quit. If it wasn't for the internet, and youtube, Peter Green would be some lost soul who joined John Mayall for six months.

[FuzzyPlum]

These albums were around in the late 1980's in America. Again, Mick Fleetwood made sure the early Fleetwood Mac would not be uncovered until the "Rumours" band quit. If it wasn't for the internet, and youtube, Peter Green would be some lost soul who joined John Mayall for six months.

I find this to be a rather odd statement- not really sure what you mean.

[Rubber Duck]

I find this to be a rather odd statement- not really sure what you mean.

+ 1

(Peter Green´s) Fleetwood Mac were HUGE in 1969-70.
Why would that be forgotten...?

[chiliD]

Bob Welch's song,"Future Games" was his best work in FM, until "Sentimental Lady"(Bare Trees).

These albums were around in the late 1980's in America. Again, Mick Fleetwood made sure the early Fleetwood Mac would not be uncovered until the "Rumours" band quit. If it wasn't for the internet, and youtube, Peter Green would be some lost soul who joined John Mayall for six months.

I find this to be a rather odd statement- not really sure what you mean.

+ 1

(Peter Green´s) Fleetwood Mac were HUGE in 1969-70.
Why would that be forgotten...?

+2 (& then some)
It wasn't Mick Fleetwood who threw a tizzy-fit about playing songs from pre-75 incarnations (especially after July '77)...that was one of the other members. So, Mick's not on the hook for people ignoring prior incarnations (at least in the '80s)...NOW? Well, that's a different story. BOB WELCH, BOB WELCH, BOB WELCH!!!

If you'd read Guitar Player magazine, there's RARELY an issue that the name "Peter Green" DOESN'T appear somewhere in some interview about being an inspiration.

From '75 onward, everytime Fleetwood Mac released a new album, the entire back catalogue would get a bump in sales.

[slipkid]

I find this to be a rather odd statement- not really sure what you mean.

So Peter Green was mentioned in those cocaine filled booze years with the Rumours band in "writing". Remember in 1977, there is no internet.

Why did it take 15 years to release the Boston Tea Party tapes to the public? LB left the band in 1985. Mick was protecting his golden goose.

For those of you who have no knowledge of the Peter Green era, Mick Fleetwood knew that if those recordings came out, the pop FM band would attract old FM fans, with current fans asking "what"?

It's hard to believe that a band that launched Aerosmith, and ZZ Top, became a pop band. RIP Terry Kath, he was the rock force behind Chicago. (hint)

[THD]

Why did it take 15 years to release the Boston Tea Party tapes to the public? LB left the band in 1985. Mick was protecting his golden goose.


Slipkid do you know the history of these recordings ? Who taped them ? Were they bootlegs originally ? Who owned the copyright originally - Fleetwood Mac?, Or did they have to acquire it at some point from the original copyright holder in order that they could release it some unspecified time in the future or conversely supress it until such time as it suited them ?

[chiliD]

So Peter Green was mentioned in those cocaine filled booze years with the Rumours band in "writing". Remember in 1977, there is no internet.

Why did it take 15 years to release the Boston Tea Party tapes to the public? LB left the band in 1985. Mick was protecting his golden goose.


LB left in '87.


Why it took so long to release Boston Tea Party? Well, you'd have to ask Clifford Davies...as part of the settlement in the bogus band litigation in '73/74, he had control over Fleetwood Mac material up to Mystery To Me. The Boston Tea Party recordings were originaly slated to be a double live LP to be released in late 1970, but due to Peter Green's departure, they shelved the album (the recordings of which were heavily bootlegged until the early '80s...even then the release was only SEMI-official.)

Ahhhh, "if only" (he thought....pondering how the release of a double live album in 1970 would've changed Fleetwood Mac history forever).

[FuzzyPlum]

Mick was protecting his golden goose.


I honestly think you're reading something in that really isn't there. Mick always comes across as being proud of the blues origins of the band. They continued to play early songs in their set list long after Peter left. Indeed Oh Well featured on the 1980 Live album and Mick payed tribute with Rattlesnake Shake on the Visitor.

I think Fleetwood Mac were full on busy touring/promoting/recording from 75 through to the early 1980's. I don't think they had a lot of down time during that whole period. That there wasn't more Peter Green reference during that period was probably just down to the fact Mick was so wrapped up in the current band affairs.

As far as 'golden goose' is concerned, I'd be very surprised if there was much money to be made from Boston Live- we're not talking huge sales here. Compare this with the sort of money he was making from Rumours/touring etc. The Boston material would have been worth peanuts by comparison.

Forgive my ignorance (I may be wrong here) but I thought I read somewhere Mick spent considerable time trying to help Peter put together solo albums in the 1970's.

[slipkid]

LB left in '87.


Why it took so long to release Boston Tea Party? Well, you'd have to ask Clifford Davies...as part of the settlement in the bogus band litigation in '73/74, he had control over Fleetwood Mac material up to Mystery To Me. The Boston Tea Party recordings were originaly slated to be a double live LP to be released in late 1970, but due to Peter Green's departure, they shelved the album (the recordings of which were heavily bootlegged until the early '80s...even then the release was only SEMI-official.)

Ahhhh, "if only" (he thought....pondering how the release of a double live album in 1970 would've changed Fleetwood Mac history forever).

Clifford Davies was the manager after Peter Green left, until he tried to defraud the real band . He knew to release a 2-LP live album of a band that no longer existed would ruin the make-shift "Kiln House" version of FM. I get it. The reason we now have the proper Tea Party concerts, is all due to Davies' ex-wife getting everything in a divorce settlement. I read too much into "den mother" Mick Fleetwood interviews from the "rich years". Now that the Rumours band is in "reunion" form, Mick openly talks about how great his first version of FM was.

However, Mick, and John use Munich as an excuse. Peter was perfectly sane when he left FM. Green was sick and tired of being turned down for charity concerts, and rejected for non-profit ideas. Of all the "official" rock "acid casualties", Peter Green is not one of them. Logic says, why did FM ask Green to replace Jeremy Spencer in early 1971 for the winter/spring US tour? If I were Moby Grape, or Pink Floyd; I would not ask Skip Spence to replace a bandmember who left, nor Syd Barrett. It wasn't that Peter Green lost his mind, he discovered free-form German prog. rock. It's called Krautrock, and it makes UK prog. rock very pedestrian. Green was bored with FM. Mick Fleetwood can't say that in a documentary.

This is why I feel Mick Fleetwood has "fudged" the truth to make sure the pop version of FM was the only band, when they were making money by the ton. How convenient. Only when Fleetwood is playing blues drums again with his band does he tell the public about the early days.

[WatchChain]

"Mystery to Me"

Rock on!! Let's show some PRE-75 LOVE !!!!

[THD]

Clifford Davies was the manager after Peter Green left, until he tried to defraud the real band . .

He was the manager from the very formation of Fleetwood Mac surely

Just because his ex missus got his assets (or more likely just some of them ) in a divorce settlement ,does not necessarilly mean she got the rights to any recordings - though she might have of course She may have got the publishers split on the songwriting I'm also unclear about whether any record company can officially release a recording without having the permission of everyone involved in that recording** ? ( There are certain British TV progs which have never been repeated because just one cast member refused to give his permission ,for example )

** perhaps you can enlighten us on that subject Jeremy ?

[slipkid]

He was the manager from the very formation of Fleetwood Mac surely

Just because his ex missus got his assets (or more likely just some of them ) in a divorce settlement ,does not necessarilly mean she got the rights to any recordings - though she might have of course She may have got the publishers split on the songwriting I'm also unclear about whether any record company can officially release a recording without having the permission of everyone involved in that recording** ? ( There are certain British TV progs which have never been repeated because just one cast member refused to give his permission ,for example )

** perhaps you can enlighten us on that subject Jeremy ?

Jeremy knows the truth, but I bet WB was not happy when PG left. WB also knew that without PG, the expected 2LP live album would ruin the current (post PG) FM. Peter Green did "The End of the Game" to get out of his personal contract. That should've been the BTP live album.

I am convinced if the BTP live album is released in late 1970, we do not know Lindsay Buckingham, and Stevie Nicks as members of FM.

I just find it curious that the BTP recordings in their proper form remastered didn't get released until 1999. I think there is a direct connection to the Clifford Davies divorce settlement.

[dino]

He was the manager from the very formation of Fleetwood Mac surely

Just because his ex missus got his assets (or more likely just some of them ) in a divorce settlement ,does not necessarilly mean she got the rights to any recordings - though she might have of course She may have got the publishers split on the songwriting I'm also unclear about whether any record company can officially release a recording without having the permission of everyone involved in that recording** ? ( There are certain British TV progs which have never been repeated because just one cast member refused to give his permission ,for example )

** perhaps you can enlighten us on that subject Jeremy ?

Michelle Reynolds owned and perhaps still owns the Tea Party recordings. As for the other point, yes permission would be needed but is not always sought.

[PenguinHead]

It's like picking your favorite child! I love all them in varying degrees.

Then Play On
Kiln House
Future Games
Bare Trees
Penguin
Mystery to Me
Heroes are Hard to Find

Heroes took some time for me to truly embrace. But I love it now.
Penguin is good, but probably my least favorite.

[He's So Unusual]

Mystery to Me

I also have a big soft spot for Heroes Are Hard to Find, Bare Trees and Penguin.

[ViscountViktor]

My favourite is Future Games - I love the weird emptiness of the album. It creates a special atmosphere.

[LesPaul7]

Then Play On, and it is my favorite album of all-time and I want to be buried with it!

PS, Mick Fleetwood needs to have the remainder of the BBC recordings re-mastered and release them. What happened to all of Dinky Dawson's live recordings too? I'm sure he has a ton.

[Earl Gray]

First post on the Ledge for me. This thread seems like a great place to start for a longtime lurker - and fan of all FM eras - who thinks the pre-1975 Mac is criminally underrated.

My favourite pre-75 album is definitely Future Games. It has such a wonderful atmosphere and some sublime songwriting. It may not be the best album from the period, but it's the one that has always meant the most to me.

Then Play On, Bare Trees and Heroes would all be a close second place. In fact almost all of them could be really. (Though a special mention goes to Bare Trees for having the greatest cover artwork in my opinion.)

Actually, reading some of the other posts in this thread just goes to show just how great (and consistently great) FM were in this period. There are so many different replies and almost every album is someone's favourite. It still amazes me that many commentators simply brush over pre-1975 FM (or at least the 1970-74 period) as if it's not worth bothering about.

[PenguinHead]

While Mick Fleetwood was happy making money hand over fist with his new pop band in 1975, he missed the blues version, sorry.

Why the slight dig to Mick Fleetwood, as to infer that he was disingenuous and just a money grabber? ( a common mindset among some ledgies) Your comment sounds slightly spiteful. :shrug: However, I do respect you for expressing your opinion.

When Bob Welch left, the band was in a very precarious position. Mick had no foresight as to how successful they were going to be when he hired Lindsey and Stevie; there was no guarantee. But thankfully he soldiered on, keeping the band alive despite the odds. The Blues era was long over. The band had to evolve to stay relevant in the current market, and fortunately, with Mick's instincts, he found the right people at the right time.

Regarding money --if you were in a position where you had opportunity to make a fortune, would you not take it? The artistry and integrity of the music was not comprised by (or for) their commercial success. Musicians aren't just in it for the money, but they have to make a living just like everyone else. It's cool that Mick has been able to revive and relive his blues roots in his adjunct band with Rick Vito, a great blues influenced guitarist.

[PenguinHead]

It still amazes me that many commentators simply brush over pre-1975 FM (or at least the 1970-74 period) as if it's not worth bothering about.

Welcome to the Ledge, Earl Gray (great name!).

I feel exactly the same. I thing that "middle child" period of musical riches gets severely overlooked. Reasons for it might be because their initial blues era is well defined, as is their Rumours era. Their transitional era was less defined, with a ever changing roster of musicians and musical styles. Yet, that's exactly why I love those albums; for the varying styles. I'm sure fans of the band during that time were very confused, never knowing what they were going to get.

[jeremy spencer]

Why the slight dig to Mick Fleetwood, as to infer that he was disingenuous and just a money grabber? ( a common mindset among some ledgies) Your comment sounds slightly spiteful. :shrug: However, I do respect you for expressing your opinion.

When Bob Welch left, the band was in a very precarious position. Mick had no foresight as to how successful they were going to be when he hired Lindsey and Stevie; there was no guarantee. But thankfully he soldiered on, keeping the band alive despite the odds. The Blues era was long over. The band had to evolve to stay relevant in the current market, and fortunately, with Mick's instincts, he found the right people at the right time.

Regarding money --if you were in a position where you had opportunity to make a fortune, would you not take it? The artistry and integrity of the music was not comprised by (or for) their commercial success. Musicians aren't just in it for the money, but they have to make a living just like everyone else. It's cool that Mick has been able to revive and relive his blues roots in his adjunct band with Rick Vito, a great blues influenced guitarist.

Good for you, PH. Why some ex and present FM members are freely derided as scoundrels and others are unquestionably lauded as saints by some ledgies, most of whom don't know them personally, puzzles me.

[becca]

Well, it's a fan site and fan is short for fanatic, and fanatics are the most motivated? Works in politics and among music lovers (haters?). I tend to be an extreme omnivore and get crossed up with the more 'pure' fans, so I'm ultimately in for everything and not just a narrow part of something.

Unfortunately because there is so much wonderful variety with this group/name I find it harder to compete one part off against other parts! I value Kiln House, and Future Games, and Bare Trees, and Penguin, and all of it... the later collections of BBC and Chess studios and radio station sets... okay, I could live without the For Your Love and Roadrunner covers (album filler), but that's about it. I would say they just don't really bring anything much to those two particular numbers.

Future games and Bare Trees do have a sort of early '70s 'concept' feel to them for me that makes them more 'albums' than collections of tracks. The whole hangs together nicely.