Stevie's everywhere except in the studio.

[secondhandchain]

What's with that? Leno, country awards etc... IIMO she loves the cash from the tour and all the attention she's getting as an "icon" or "legend". Don't think she's interested in sitting in a studio making music anymore. Sucks. Get your a*s in the studio and stop wallowing in the fame. Sorry had to rant.

[BlueDenimLamp]

What's with that? Leno, country awards etc... IIMO she loves the cash from the tour and all the attention she's getting as an "icon" or "legend". Don't think she's interested in sitting in a studio making music anymore. Sucks. Get your a*s in the studio and stop wallowing in the fame. Sorry had to rant.

Leno retired where have you been? And yes BMI is honoring Stevie as a BMI ICON and yes Stevie has every right to enjoy her current status......

An excerpt from the press release...
"BMI Icons are selected because of their unique and indelible influence on generations of music makers. As a BMI Icon, Stevie Nicks will join elite ranks that include Paul Simon, Carole King, David Foster, John Fogerty, Kris Kristofferson, the Jacksons, Crosby, Stills & Nash, the Bee Gees, Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard, Brian Wilson, Carlos Santana, Dolly Parton, and others".

"Stevie Nicks is an extraordinary songwriter and pedigree artist of stunning genius and unwavering grace, on and off the stage. She has defined an era of pop and rock culture around the world with her brilliance and unforgettable magnificence," said Barbara Cane, BMI Vice President & General Manager, Writer/Publisher Relations, Los Angeles.

And you might be right in saying that you "Don't think she's interested in sitting in a studio making music anymore". I think Stevie is very interested in making new music possibly just not with FM...If Stevie doesn't want to record with FM that's her decision and if FM is not happy with that then maybe they should do something about it...

You may not be happy with Stevie and you are entitled to say so but she is doing an incredible job promoting herself as well as Fleetwood Mac right now...

[olive]

If. .... If theyare recording since she doesn't play an instrument right now they would be laying down instrumental tracks and have absolutely no use for her whatsoever

[BlueDenimLamp]

If. .... If theyare recording since she doesn't play an instrument right now they would be laying down instrumental tracks and have absolutely no use for her whatsoever

Do we even know if they are still at the Village/recording?

[elle]

If. .... If theyare recording since she doesn't play an instrument right now they would be laying down instrumental tracks and have absolutely no use for her whatsoever
they just started laying instrumentals? aren't they in the [expensive] studio for the second month already?

plus i don't get this kind of argument anyway. wasn't SN saying loud and clear that she wants to have a say and she wants to be in the studio from the start and that for her that not being the case was a large part of what was wrong with their last record? and the other large part being no Christine McVie? so i'm not sure where "what would she do in the studio?" is coming from. either she wants to be involved or she doesn't, if the new album is being made.

for all we know she might be hugely involved and just doing these few one-offs in between.

or she doesn't want to have anything to do with the new album. if that's the case the remaining band members should just put the new album out without her. or if she wants to just sing and not contribute any songs, they can (and maybe already are) do that.

they don't have infinite amount of time.

[olive]

plus i don't get this kind of argument anyway. wasn't SN saying loud and clear that she wants to have a say and she wants to be in the studio from the start and that for her that not being the case was a large part of what was wrong with their last record? and the other large part being no Christine McVie? so i'm not sure where "what would she do in the studio?" is coming from. either she wants to be involved or she doesn't, if the new album is be
She says a lot of things

[lulu28]

Leno retired where have you been? And yes BMI is honoring Stevie as a BMI ICON and yes Stevie has every right to enjoy her current status......

An excerpt from the press release...
"BMI Icons are selected because of their unique and indelible influence on generations of music makers. As a BMI Icon, Stevie Nicks will join elite ranks that include Paul Simon, Carole King, David Foster, John Fogerty, Kris Kristofferson, the Jacksons, Crosby, Stills & Nash, the Bee Gees, Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard, Brian Wilson, Carlos Santana, Dolly Parton, and others".

"Stevie Nicks is an extraordinary songwriter and pedigree artist of stunning genius and unwavering grace, on and off the stage. She has defined an era of pop and rock culture around the world with her brilliance and unforgettable magnificence," said Barbara Cane, BMI Vice President & General Manager, Writer/Publisher Relations, Los Angeles.

And you might be right in saying that you "Don't think she's interested in sitting in a studio making music anymore". I think Stevie is very interested in making new music possibly just not with FM...If Stevie doesn't want to record with FM that's her decision and if FM is not happy with that then maybe they should do something about it...

You may not be happy with Stevie and you are entitled to say so but she is doing an incredible job promoting herself as well as Fleetwood Mac right now...

Excellent post. She's 65 years old. She deserves to get to do whatever makes HER happy. Yes, we all would like new music, but we have to accept that it might not happen anytime soon. I love that she and the Mac are getting all of this exposure. ;)

[elle]

Excellent post. She's 65 years old. She deserves to get to do whatever makes HER happy. Yes, we all would like new music, but we have to accept that it might not happen anytime soon. I love that she and the Mac are getting all of this exposure. ;)

Stevie does, sure, and that may be what she feels is best for her personally and she has every right to do what she wants. but this is FM forum. doesn't necessarily mean that's what's best for the band. if she doesn't want to make new music with the band, i hope she told them that, that she's out.

SN getting an exposure does not necessarily mean FM is. unless you are going from the premise that FM is her band, not the band of 5 people who are all equally important, with 3 songwriters among them. :shrug:

[secret love]

they just started laying instrumentals? aren't they in the [expensive] studio for the second month already?

plus i don't get this kind of argument anyway. wasn't SN saying loud and clear that she wants to have a say and she wants to be in the studio from the start and that for her that not being the case was a large part of what was wrong with their last record? and the other large part being no Christine McVie? so i'm not sure where "what would she do in the studio?" is coming from. either she wants to be involved or she doesn't, if the new album is being made.

for all we know she might be hugely involved and just doing these few one-offs in between.

or she doesn't want to have anything to do with the new album. if that's the case the remaining band members should just put the new album out without her. or if she wants to just sing and not contribute any songs, they can (and maybe already are) do that.

they don't have infinite amount of time.

It's not really expensive when you have hundreds of millions of dollars between you (lol). Yes I agree if Stevie wants to be a part of the next record then she should be in the studio and no doubt there would be at least something she could contribute even at this early stage.

Would be a shame if they put out an album without her though. I've been watching all these recent performances she has done online and her voice sounds fantastic, much better than it did in the latter stages of the Live 2013 Tour. That spoof she did with Jimmy Fallon was awesome, I know it was meant to be funny, but I think she nailed the vocals too.

On the other hand, we had a quartet album from Buckingham Nicks/Fleetwood Mac (and three tours), so a Buckingham Perfect-Fleetwood Mac album would be interesting and nothing to sniff at I'm sure.

Off topic: I've been thinking Christine didn't miss very much in her sixteen years out of the band. Thoughts? She missed what, one album and two greatest hits tours? Yeah sure she missed out a few million dollars dosh but money isn't everything. Do we really think if she had stayed that there would have been three Fleetwood Mac albums with tours behind them?

[lulu28]

Stevie does, sure, and that may be what she feels is best for her personally and she has every right to do what she wants. but this is FM forum. doesn't necessarily mean that's what's best for the band. if she doesn't want to make new music with the band, i hope she told them that, that she's out.

SN getting an exposure does not necessarily mean FM is. unless you are going from the premise that FM is her band, not the band of 5 people who are all equally important, with 3 songwriters among them. :shrug:

Nope, I'm not implying that it's "her" band at all, and yes, I do think that the exposure that she is getting does help the band. After all, she talked about Christine's return on the red carpet at the ACM's. I'm simply saying that she is doing what she wants to do, as she should, and that we MIGHT not get new music anytime soon.... I agree that hopefully everyone in the band is clear on which direction they are going as a group and that no one is causing drama. Life is too short to fight and bicker all the time. Also, I do realize that this is the FM forum, however, the thread title referenced Stevie by name. That is why I gave my opinion on Stevie in particular. I'm not trying to offend anyone, this is just my opinion and I'm sure it differs from the opinion of others. That's the beauty of having a public forum like this, where we can all discuss and debate the band and the music that we love. Have a great night! :):)

[elle]

Off topic: I've been thinking Christine didn't miss very much in her sixteen years out of the band. Thoughts? She missed what, one album and two greatest hits tours? Yeah sure she missed out a few million dollars dosh but money isn't everything. Do we really think if she had stayed that there would have been three Fleetwood Mac albums with tours behind them?

well, if they wanted an album with all 5, and if SN is against recording with them now, when CM is in (and again, we don't know what's really going on, SN might be actually in, and spending most of her time in studio with the rest of the band), then no they wouldn't in the last 10 years either. SN seemed pretty clear she didn't want to record with LB/FM after SYW, that she didn't like LB's work there.

LB talked about making another FM album right after SYW in DR doc. then he wanted to record a new FM album in 2010. then in 2012. now in 2014. the trend seems clear.

[jbrownsjr]

She was extremely upset that Lindsey was holding Christine's hand much longer than hers. She ran out of the studio and the other members have been trying to get her back since. She was last seen trying to get Don Henley back.

[Johnny Stew]

plus i don't get this kind of argument anyway. wasn't SN saying loud and clear that she wants to have a say

She's not going to get a say in the direction of/production of Christine's songs, now is she? And, by all accounts, that's what they're working on.

Just this week, Rolling Stone quoted Christine as saying that they're still working on constructing "proper tracks" from her "rough" demos.

So, if they're not working on Stevie's songs, and if they're not yet to the stage of needing Stevie's backing vocals, then there really isn't a reason for Stevie to be sitting in the studio twiddling her thumbs.

[elle]

She's not going to get a say in the direction of/production of Christine's songs, now is she? And, by all accounts, that's what they're working on.

Just this week, Rolling Stone quoted Christine as saying that they're still working on constructing "proper tracks" from her "rough" demos.

So, if they're not working on Stevie's songs, and if they're not yet to the stage of needing Stevie's backing vocals, then there really isn't a reason for Stevie to be sitting in the studio twiddling her thumbs.

yes that quote really upsets me, for some reason. because 6 months ago, Christine was saying that she had 3 almost finished songs, and a few more in rough demo phase. so either they are going backwards on her songs, or it almost seems like an excuse for something else going on. :shrug:

[elle]

She was extremely upset that Lindsey was holding Christine's hand much longer than hers. She ran out of the studio and the other members have been trying to get her back since. She was last seen trying to get Don Henley back.

:laugh: you do know i love you, right?

[jbrownsjr]

:laugh: you do know i love you, right?

Indeed I do!

[BlueDenimLamp]

She was extremely upset that Lindsey was holding Christine's hand much longer than hers. She ran out of the studio and the other members have been trying to get her back since. She was last seen trying to get Don Henley back.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>From breakups to make-ups, here are the 20 best dramatic duets of all time: <a href="http://t.co/OSZdRc4Vk5">http://t.co/OSZdRc4Vk5</a></p>&mdash; Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) <a href="https://twitter.com/RollingStone/statuses/453276886865829888">April 7, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looks like she's trying to take advantage of the fact that "Leather & Lace" has just been ranked #3 on RS 20 "Greatest Duets Of All Time"...:nod:

[Johnny Stew]

yes that quote really upsets me, for some reason. because 6 months ago, Christine was saying that she had 3 almost finished songs, and a few more in rough demo phase. so either they are going backwards on her songs, or it almost seems like an excuse for something else going on. :shrug:

Christine's the straightest-shooter in Fleetwood Mac. I highly doubt she'd be making excuses for Stevie or anyone. Besides, we don't know to what degree those songs were "almost finished." They may have needed more work than we'd all assumed. Additionally, the band always demos and/or records more songs than they need. So they're not going to stop at just three of Christine's songs.

I'd like to repeat something that I've pointed out before -- Lindsey didn't say or imply that Stevie isn't on board with recording. He said that the logistics of "when" hadn't yet been worked out. So there's really no need for any of us to jump to conclusions regarding Stevie's commitment to the band.

[elle]

Christine's the straightest-shooter in Fleetwood Mac. I highly doubt she'd be making excuses for Stevie or anyone. Besides, we don't know to what degree those songs were "almost finished." They may have needed more work than we'd all assumed. Additionally, the band always demos and/or records more songs than they need. So they're not going to stop at just three of Christine's songs.

I'd like to repeat something that I've pointed out before -- Lindsey didn't say or imply that Stevie isn't on board with recording. He said that the logistics of "when" hadn't yet been worked out. So there's really no need for any of us to jump to conclusions regarding Stevie's commitment to the band.

hope you are right. you are much more optimistic than i am, at this point. in this day and age, i don't see any reasons for them not to finish that album before the tour, if they are all on board.

[MikeVielhaber]

Christine's the straightest-shooter in Fleetwood Mac. I highly doubt she'd be making excuses for Stevie or anyone. Besides, we don't know to what degree those songs were "almost finished." They may have needed more work than we'd all assumed. Additionally, the band always demos and/or records more songs than they need. So they're not going to stop at just three of Christine's songs.

I'd like to repeat something that I've pointed out before -- Lindsey didn't say or imply that Stevie isn't on board with recording. He said that the logistics of "when" hadn't yet been worked out. So there's really no need for any of us to jump to conclusions regarding Stevie's commitment to the band.

Not just "when" but also "how". Lest we make it sound like simply a scheduling issue. She doesn't know how she wants to record with the band. It does seem like to some extent she's not on board. Not with the concept of recording a new album, but like they haven't yet agreed on terms regarding the recording that are satisfactory to her.

[jbrownsjr]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>From breakups to make-ups, here are the 20 best dramatic duets of all time: <a href="http://t.co/OSZdRc4Vk5">http://t.co/OSZdRc4Vk5</a></p>&mdash; Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) <a href="https://twitter.com/RollingStone/statuses/453276886865829888">April 7, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looks like she's trying to take advantage of the fact that "Leather & Lace" has just been ranked #3 on RS 20 "Greatest Duets Of All Time"...:nod:

Too funny. And I listened to, Bella Donna, this morning.

[elle]

Not just "when" but also "how". Lest we make it sound like simply a scheduling issue. She doesn't know how she wants to record with the band.

yup.

you can read between my lines. ;)

[Johnny Stew]

hope you are right. you are much more optimistic than i am, at this point. in this day and age, i don't see any reasons for them not to finish that album before the tour, if they are all on board.

I'd be thrilled if they had an album ready by September, but I never expected a new album that quickly. Historically, Fleetwood Mac works much slower than that.

Plus, this time around, there are other factors. First and foremost, I'm sure they probably need to move at a more relaxed pace for John. It's obvious from the Today Show appearance and the various photographs, that he's still in a weakened condition. My brother is half John's age and has been finished with his chemo treatments since the middle of February, and he still tires out very easily. So it's probably not a good idea for John to spend four months in the studio, then two months rehearsing, and then another four or five months on the road.

A little recording here & there is probably the healthiest way to approach this.

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they complete one classic-sounding track, and release it to iTunes just before they hit the road. To whet everyone's appetite in the lead-up to the full album.

[Johnny Stew]

Not just "when" but also "how". Lest we make it sound like simply a scheduling issue. She doesn't know how she wants to record with the band. It does seem like to some extent she's not on board. Not with the concept of recording a new album, but that they haven't yet agreed on terms regarding the recording that are satisfactory to her.

Fair enough -- but that "how" could mean nothing more than whether she wants to record at The Village or in her own home. That's not the same as not being on board.

My main point remains: There was no "if" in Lindsey's comments regarding Stevie recording with the band.

Quite frankly, I think that if the band didn't already have some kind of commitment from Stevie before they entered the studio, they wouldn't have even bothered.

[elle]

I'd be thrilled if they had an album ready by September, but I never expected a new album that quickly. Historically, Fleetwood Mac works much slower than that.

i can't remember why, but i had a distinct impression the plan was to have the album finished before the tour. :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

i can't remember why, but i had a distinct impression the plan was to have the album finished before the tour. :shrug:

I don't remember anyone in the band ever saying that. I think, like many things, that was just an assumption on our part.

[elle]

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they complete one classic-sounding track, and release it to iTunes just before they hit the road. To whet everyone's appetite in the lead-up to the full album.

:lol: i thought that already happened. it was called Extended Play.

i guess the same as greatest hits tour would happen only once. and then the 2nd time. and now the 3rd time. whetting the appetite can happen just one time. and then another. and then they'll all be 80 and on walkers. and there will be no album.

[Johnny Stew]

:lol: i thought that already happened. it was called Extended Play.

i guess the same as greatest hits tour would happen only once. and then the 2nd time. and now the 3rd time. whetting the appetite can happen just one time. and then another. and then they'll all be 80 and on walkers. and there will be no album.

Well, I was referring to a new song with Christine -- the hit-maker -- singing lead. ;)

Really, with Chris back in the band, they've pretty much hit the reset button on all of this. Look at how well last year's tour did, and yet people are still falling all over themselves to get tickets for this year's tour. And I'm not just talking about die-hards. This is being viewed as an "event." In the same way, any new song -- with all five "classic" members -- is going to get way more attention than "Sad Angel" did.

[secondhandchain]

[QUOTE=BlueDenimLamp;1125991]Leno retired where have you been? And yes BMI is honoring Stevie as a BMI ICON and yes Stevie has every right to enjoy her current status......

Whoops meant Fallon.

[secondhandchain]

Fair enough -- but that "how" could mean nothing more than whether she wants to record at The Village or in her own home. That's not the same as not being on board.

My main point remains: There was no "if" in Lindsey's comments regarding Stevie recording with the band.

Quite frankly, I think that if the band didn't already have some kind of commitment from Stevie before they entered the studio, they wouldn't have even bothered.

Well they bothered to record six songs of Lindsey's without any commitment from Stevie last year so...

Also Stevie could absolutely be in the studio giving her input to (Christine's) the songs if she wanted to. This is a "band" after all.

[Johnny Stew]

Well they bothered to record six songs of Lindsey's without any commitment from Stevie last year so...

That was a different situation. For one thing, those songs were recorded in Lindsey's home studio -- so they weren't shelling out big bucks for studio time. And two, Lindsey could have very easily folded those tracks into a new solo album, if Stevie declined involvement.

Everything's changed now that Christine is involved. Now they have Lindsey's songs and Christine's. They're not going to just turn them over to solo albums. And they're not going to release a Fleetwood Mac album without Stevie.

Trust me, they're confident she's on board or they wouldn't waste their time and money.

Also Stevie could absolutely be in the studio giving her input to (Christine's) the songs if she wanted to. This is a "band" after all.

Do any of us really think it would go over well, if Stevie -- the non-musician in the band -- sat in the studio and offered notes to Christine & Lindsey on the instrumentation or production of their own songs? They'd show her the door if she pulled that!

Now, if they asked her to help them work out a harmony-part, that's one thing. But they wouldn't appreciate unsolicited advice on the direction of their songs. And I highly doubt Stevie would even think to give it.

[michelej1]

Well they bothered to record six songs of Lindsey's without any commitment from Stevie last year so...

Also Stevie could absolutely be in the studio giving her input to (Christine's) the songs if she wanted to. This is a "band" after all.

Yeah, maybe Christine's new songs need a Stevie line like Oh Daddy did and without it they're withering and dying.

Or Stevie claimed she was the one who dragged Lindsey in to do background vocals on Christine's songs for Mirage. If she hadn't done that, I guess Christine would have been sitting there singing all by herself, just "hold me, hold me, hold me," solo and indefinitely.

As you say, it's a "band" and although she is not a musician, there are things she can add at this stage of the process. Of course, she needn't put in the hours that Lindsey, Christine and Mick do, but she should be putting in some hours. Let's hope she is.

Michele

[michelej1]

Trust me, they're confident she's on board or they wouldn't waste their time and money.


I think they may be confident she's on board, but not because there's anything in place, only because they think she'll come around in the end. Just like Mick knew she would when he did that Playboy interview. I don't think she's committed at all regarding an album yet. Just the tour. But yes, I think they know they can corral her.

Also, whether she's needed in the studio or not, whether she'll end up being in the studio or not (and I am sure she will be), for now things seem decidedly strange, distant and cool to me.

Michele

[shackin'up]

Also, whether she's needed in the studio or not, whether she'll end up being in the studio or not (and I am sure she will be), for now things seem decidedly strange, distant and cool to me.

Michele

THIS.
I don't relate to their process in ANY way anymore. It's not about functionality or efficiency in the studio. It's about being a band and relate to eachother in a creative process. This is not a band. It's a bunch of solistic operating souls who are not searching for the value above the sum of the parts. It's all about how every individual gels with Lindsey. Chemistry between 4 individuals and one supervisor. So chemistry between Mick and Lindsey, John and Lindsey, Christine and Lindsey and finally Stevie and Lindsey. Not between the five of them all together. Incredible.

[elle]

THIS.
I don't relate to their process in ANY way anymore. It's not about functionality or efficiency in the studio. It's about being a band and relate to eachother in a creative process. This is not a band. It's a bunch of solistic operating souls who are not searching for the value above the sum of the parts. It's all about how every individual gels with Lindsey. Chemistry between 4 individuals and one supervisor. So chemistry between Mick and Lindsey, John and Lindsey, Christine and Lindsey and finally Stevie and Lindsey. Not between the five of them all together. Incredible.

while during Tusk recording he was an ayatollah. sounds like a huge stepdown over the years, from ayatollah to just measly supervisor. ;)

[Macfanforever]

This is why.I cant blame her.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vEvvRfuVk30?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Sorry guys.......

[louielouie2000]

for now things seem decidedly strange, distant and cool to me.

Agreed... Stevie has been doing a huge amount of public events lately, but has she even once acknowledged a new Fleetwood Mac album, or anything to do with recording any new music? It's downright bizarre.

[teedeerocks]

I have thought from the very beginning when CM's return was just a rumor that Stevie was not real keen on the idea. It almost seemed like she was trying to talk Chris out of it.When you're trying to convince someone to do something you give them all the pros about it to encourage them.Stevie seemed to be giving her a list of cons(grueling schedule,2hrs and 40 minutes on stage,this is no walk in the park,etc.)For so long Stevie has been the frontline person and,for the most part,the one who has gotten the most attention(on stage).The main focus of this whole tour is CM and Stevie is not going to get nearly the amount of attention that she's used to.I'm not saying that she hates Chris or anything but I think this is going to be a blow to her.I love her to death but,lets face it,our girl has an ego inflated to the point it makes a hot air balloon look like a pimple on her ass.She feeds off of all the admiration she gets from the audience.
Also ,she and Lindsey have just sort of rekindled their relationship(platonic) which was made obvious from their onstage performances.They appeared to be absolutely enjoying the shows and each other.CM and Lindsey are very close as we all know and I think this will be another thorn in her side.IMO she is putting herself out there and grabbing alot of attention because she knows when this tour begins she's gonna fade a little.Just my 2.5 cents.Don't slam me too hard please....:sorry:

[WildHearted]

^ I wholeheartedly disagree. I think that after you've had it drilled in your head for fifteen years that someone is never coming back for such and such reasons and then they say they are coming back, you have your reservations about how serious they are about it. A lot is on the line - in their minds, if Chris is back she has to be back for the long haul. They can't make a huge announcement about her return if she is going to turn around a month later and say she can't handle it after all.

Chris herself has said that Stevie offered her money to return. Stevie has always wanted Chris back, and I don't think she gives a rats ass about getting less attention on stage during the FM show. Chris playing her songs means Stevie doesn't have to work as hard. This tour will be a much lighter load for Stevie and I would imagine that would be a nice change.

[RockawayBlind]

If Stevie doesn't want to record with FM that's her decision and if FM is not happy with that then maybe they should do something about it...


Absolutely right. They should dump her.

[jbrownsjr]

Absolutely right. They should dump her.

And they will, right after all the arenas sell out. (For the second leg.);)

[Johnny Stew]

I think they may be confident she's on board, but not because there's anything in place, only because they think she'll come around in the end. Just like Mick knew she would when he did that Playboy interview. I don't think she's committed at all regarding an album yet. Just the tour. But yes, I think they know they can corral her.

I see your point, Michele. I still view this as a different situation though. Mick guilt-tripping her through interviews, was one thing. It's not like they booked a tour first, and then hoped she'd eventually come around.

Right now, they're spending thousands of dollars on studio time. I just don't see them doing that on nothing more than the notion that they can convince Stevie to join them. I think with money involved, they have something more tangible than optimism.

[MikeVielhaber]

^ I wholeheartedly disagree. I think that after you've had it drilled in your head for fifteen years that someone is never coming back for such and such reasons and then they say they are coming back, you have your reservations about how serious they are about it. A lot is on the line - in their minds, if Chris is back she has to be back for the long haul. They can't make a huge announcement about her return if she is going to turn around a month later and say she can't handle it after all.

Chris herself has said that Stevie offered her money to return. Stevie has always wanted Chris back, and I don't think she gives a rats ass about getting less attention on stage during the FM show. Chris playing her songs means Stevie doesn't have to work as hard. This tour will be a much lighter load for Stevie and I would imagine that would be a nice change.
I agree. She brought up all the challenging aspects of returning to make sure that Christine had considered everything and still wanted to come back. To make sure she was all in. It doesn't make sense for someone to say they want to come back and you tell them all the perks and good stuff. She already said she wants back in.

[Macfanforever]

FM will go broke if they dump her.

[MikeVielhaber]

I see your point, Michele. I still view this as a different situation though. Mick guilt-tripping her through interviews, was one thing. It's not like they booked a tour first, and then hoped she'd eventually come around.

Right now, they're spending thousands of dollars on studio time. I just don't see them doing that on nothing more than the notion that they can convince Stevie to join them. I think with money involved, they have something more tangible than optimism.

Maybe they booked studio time with the secondary intention of proving to Stevie they're serious about this. They want an album. The optimists keep saying "well she's not needed in the studio" and to some extent it's true. They CAN work on Christine's songs without Stevie's involvement and that's what they're doing. Though it doesn't mean she can't be involved. Also notice they are very vague about the album. No time table or anything. Just that they're working on stuff and an album is in the mix somewhere. I don't think they have any agreement in place with Stevie in place regarding her involvement.

[Macfanforever]

With todays technology of recording.They can record a track in Nashville and send it to LA for another track send it to NY for another track and send it to Texas for another track and mix it in LA .

No face to face unless the have a CCTV connection.

What ever what she does its up to her.

Yes it would be nice for new tunes with Chris there.I agree 100 percent.

[Johnny Stew]

I have thought from the very beginning when CM's return was just a rumor that Stevie was not real keen on the idea. It almost seemed like she was trying to talk Chris out of it.When you're trying to convince someone to do something you give them all the pros about it to encourage them.Stevie seemed to be giving her a list of cons(grueling schedule,2hrs and 40 minutes on stage,this is no walk in the park,etc.)

Christine has told the press that Lindsey did the same thing -- trying to make certain that she was absolutely sure she understood exactly what a touring commitment would entail. Stevie wasn't the only one reminding her of the cons.

[louielouie2000]

Maybe they booked studio time with the secondary intention of proving to Stevie they're serious about this. They want an album. The optimists keep saying "well she's not needed in the studio" and to some extent it's true. They CAN work on Christine's songs without Stevie's involvement and that's what they're doing. Though it doesn't mean she can't be involved. Also notice they are very vague about the album. No time table or anything. Just that they're working on stuff and an album is in the mix somewhere. I don't think they have any agreement in place with Stevie in place regarding her involvement.

I tend to think you're right. I just keep thinking back to the early days of the band. Stevie was always in the studio, even if she wasn't doing anything. Case & point, her making coffee during the Tusk documentary. Or her hanging out in Sly Stone's studio during the making of Rumours while she wasn't needed, and crafting Dreams. Stevie was pretty much always around for her first 4 Mac albums. That all stopped for the making of Tango, and we know how her songs suffered because of it. Stevie was also only around for the recording of her own songs during Say You Will, and we all know how displeased she was with that album, too. Seems like the woman isn't learning from her own mistakes.

[ironman_01701]

This is why.I cant blame her.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vEvvRfuVk30?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Sorry guys.......

Chis is joining the four for the last hurrah IMO. John McVie, it seems to me, had more smiles on his face (the 2nd is Mick) during the Today show airing last month - Why?.... Because he misses her and she him more than all the rest IMO.

Drinking too much alcohol as John has done in the past, can lead to alcohol poisoning and types of liver problems. Regular, heavy alcohol use can damage the liver and possibly cause cancer (no one knows what cancer john has). However, he didn't look well to me (more tan the rest), and more than not he wanted Chris to join the band for a final last hurrah (IMO).

Stevie does owes Chris for the OK to join the band and her success in 1975, so it's pay back time. If Stevie ever reject Chris rejoining FM this year, Stevie legacy would be damaged, or put it this way, she would not like it also, if ever it was leaked out in the future.

You have to be blind and deaf not to see who wants the attention for the past 15 years of FM (Buckingham would stand there on the stage to listen to her yapping minutes on end) appearance after appearance for 15 years. There was always one person in the audience shouting Chris name so the four of them knew it was a winner, the only question was how much was the ticket charge would be?

The top cat is a male - Let's call the cat John, life a bitch as the bottom cat found out.

[Johnny Stew]

Maybe they booked studio time with the secondary intention of proving to Stevie they're serious about this. They want an album. The optimists keep saying "well she's not needed in the studio" and to some extent it's true. They CAN work on Christine's songs without Stevie's involvement and that's what they're doing. Though it doesn't mean she can't be involved. Also notice they are very vague about the album. No time table or anything. Just that they're working on stuff and an album is in the mix somewhere. I don't think they have any agreement in place with Stevie in place regarding her involvement.

"Next year"/"After the tour" is something of a time-table, although admittedly it's nothing concrete. But I'm looking at the way in which they're talking about an album. There haven't been any "maybes" or "mights." Their intention to release an album at some point is clear.

For all we know, some of the hesitance on offering a time-table might also have to do with not having a record label lined up yet. They could be working on Christine's songs not as an enticement to Stevie, but as an enticement to the various record companies.

[Johnny Stew]

I tend to think you're right. I just keep thinking back to the early days of the band. Stevie was always in the studio, even if she wasn't doing anything. Case & point, her making coffee during the Tusk documentary. Or her hanging out in Sly Stone's studio during the making of Rumours while she wasn't needed, and crafting Dreams. Stevie was pretty much always around for her first 4 Mac albums. That all stopped for the making of Tango, and we know how her songs suffered because of it.

That actually stopped before 'Tango.' With 'Mirage,' Stevie was mainly there initially, when they started recording in France. Then, once they returned to the States -- by all accounts -- Stevie would only pop in as needed. Lindsey was quoted as saying, "Stevie didn't come down a lot. She was in the studio, aside from France, maybe a total of ten or fifteen days."

Yet, oddly enough, I rarely hear people complain about the quality of Stevie's 'Mirage' songs or her lack of involvement with the album as a whole.

Really, once Stevie's solo career began, there was no reason for her to hang around making coffee all day. She had other more constructive things to do with her time, and I don't blame her one bit.

Stevie was also only around for the recording of her own songs during Say You Will, and we all know how displeased she was with that album, too. Seems like the woman isn't learning from her own mistakes.

Two things she has complained about, regarding 'Say You Will' -- the mixing of her songs and the sequencing of the album -- were things she was around for, but got "out-voted" on. So her input seems to have made little difference in that situation.

[Macfanforever]

The story with the Mac .They get along like family members . This reminds me of the holiday get togethers that I've went through over the years.

Big debates over the dinner table and some ended with somebody walking out.

[olive]

I tend to think you're right. I just keep thinking back to the early days of the band. Stevie was always in the studio, even if she wasn't doing anything. Case & point, her making coffee .

that may have been out of Habit , I think she mentioned sometime ago that she had been a Waitress

[michelej1]

I see your point, Michele. I still view this as a different situation though. Mick guilt-tripping her through interviews, was one thing. It's not like they booked a tour first, and then hoped she'd eventually come around.

Right now, they're spending thousands of dollars on studio time. I just don't see them doing that on nothing more than the notion that they can convince Stevie to join them. I think with money involved, they have something more tangible than optimism.

I doubt they do and maybe Stevie is not needed right now, but I would guess that her absence is definitely felt and minded. It's not a consensual absence, is my take. Michele

[michelej1]

while during Tusk recording he was an ayatollah. sounds like a huge stepdown over the years, from ayatollah to just measly supervisor. ;)

During Tango Mick said he treated the three of them like Marionettes, but was nice to Stevie. I don't know what Stevie called him during SYW, master craftsman, Russian box maker, but in the end she warned that the palm trees might hit him in the head.

Michele

[michelej1]

I agree. She brought up all the challenging aspects of returning to make sure that Christine had considered everything and still wanted to come back. To make sure she was all in. It doesn't make sense for someone to say they want to come back and you tell them all the perks and good stuff. She already said she wants back in.

Now, she says she was the one to tell Chris to get a personal trainer.

I think more than that, the yoga they are doing will be good and can give Chris the mental focus that may replace the need for mental unfocus alcohol used to provide on stage.

Michele

[mottabam]

Honestly, I have no idea why Stevie is not in the studio with the other four besides possibly her commitments and travel plans to recent TV Appearances including Country Award show, Fallon, and the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame performance.

I would assume she would be needed for some harmonies and vocals even if recording only Chris and Lindsey tunes. Hopefully she will contribute something fresh and exciting for the new album unlike her song on the EP. I am excited to hear what they eventually put out collectively as the reunited Rumours line-up.

Kinda curious if there will be a major change to the overall stage set-up and production for this outing or if it will mostly mirror LIVE 2013 outing.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Absolutely right. They should dump her.

And they will, right after all the arenas sell out. (For the second leg.);)

At least ticket prices will drop like a rock...I can see it now ...The "Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie" coming to a steak house near you, advance ticket holders will receive a free buffet coupon...

[Macfanforever]

At least ticket prices will drop like a rock...I can see it now ...The "Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie" coming to a steak house near you, advance ticket holders will receive a free buffet coupon...

Hahaha .I agree.Maybe nightclubs and those free concerts that the local towns put on or state fairs.

I'll be there.


No they probably struggle alittlebit like in the past .

The Time concerts came to mind at the moment.

I was there for them too.

[Johnny Stew]

I doubt they do and maybe Stevie is not needed right now, but I would guess that her absence is definitely felt and minded. It's not a consensual absence, is my take.

One thing I do know for certain -- it's going to be interesting to watch as all of this continues to play out over the next year.

[elle]

At least ticket prices will drop like a rock...I can see it now ...The "Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie" coming to a steak house near you, advance ticket holders will receive a free buffet coupon...

a-ha. because Stevie was a part of FM arena tour 2013, and prices were ~ $100. and Stevie is a part of FM arena tour 2014, but now prices doubled to ~ $200. wait......... what?!?!?! how can that be?? so many people willing to pay so much money to fill these arenas, and so much faster than last year?? if looking at prices, almost seems like Christine rejoining is worth as much as the other 4 together. :shrug:

it's ridiculous that this even needs to be stated, but Fleetwood McVie McVie and Buckingham are every bit as much a Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac as Fleetwood McVie Nicks and Buckingham.

[brickney723]

At least ticket prices will drop like a rock...I can see it now ...The "Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie" coming to a steak house near you, advance ticket holders will receive a free buffet coupon...

lmao! Honestly… you are so right.

[BLY]

Lindsey also could be working with some of Stevie's "vault" songs.

[BlueDenimLamp]

a-ha. because Stevie was a part of FM arena tour 2013, and prices were ~ $100. and Stevie is a part of FM arena tour 2014, but now prices doubled to ~ $200. wait......... what?!?!?! how can that be?? so many people willing to pay so much money to fill these arenas, and so much faster than last year?? if looking at prices, almost seems like Christine rejoining is worth as much as the other 4 together. :shrug:

it's ridiculous that this even needs to be stated, but Fleetwood McVie McVie and Buckingham are every bit as much a Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac as Fleetwood McVie Nicks and Buckingham.

Yes but will people pay $750 for "The Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie"?

[Johnny Stew]

Lindsey also could be working with some of Stevie's "vault" songs.

Very, very possible. I said elsewhere that, for all we know, Stevie may have already given them some demos to shift through and select their favorites.

[elle]

Lindsey also could be working with some of Stevie's "vault" songs.

he could be. but Stevie was very clear she wants to be a part of the process. and fans here were very clear that they didn't like she was not part of the process with Lindsey's SYW songs, and that her not being involved from the start was a big problem with how SYW turned out. so she should be a part of the process. and if she's not, it's not because the other 4 don't want her there.

[elle]

Yes but will people pay $750 for "The Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie"?

i don't remember that the band was called "The Men of Mac featuring Stevie Nicks" for the last 10+ years?

i also don't recall people paying $750 last year, it was more like $450, no?

prices speak for themselves. as well as how fast are tickets going this year, even the really expensive ones. the only difference from last year is Christine McVie. they still have the exact same Stevie Nicks. except she'll have less songs in the set. looks like that's worth doubling the price.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Stevie was very clear she wants to be a part of the process.

I think it's more like Stevie wants to control the process/production on her songs but LB won't allow that to happen and I think this is where the problem lies...

[Macfanforever]

Yes but will people pay $750 for "The Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie"?

Hahahaha.

"The Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie" name me LOL.....

I would not pay $750 but I will be there to support them sitting in the cheap seats up in the nose bleed section with my telescope.

I would not pay $750 for a tix with all 5 present.I hope it will come with a full meet and greet package and I will have all five sign my Rumours album a photo of me with all 5 members.

That would be worth $750 bucks.

[elle]

I think it's more like Stevie wants to control the process/production on her songs but LB won't allow that to happen and I think this is where the problem lies...

i don't think LB cares anymore. i think he's willing to give in to almost anything just to finally get at least one album out. he's been pushing for years now.

so if there is a problem, must be something else.

[Johnny Stew]

Can we please not go down the "Fleetwood Mac is nothing without ______" route again?

I think it's well been established that any four of the 'Rumours' five, can do quite well for themselves -- but ALL five will always be the top draw.

[RockawayBlind]

And they will, right after all the arenas sell out. (For the second leg.);)

Oh, the will sell out the arenas, no doubt. People love nostalgia bands.

[BlueDenimLamp]

i don't think LB cares anymore. i think he's willing to give in to almost anything just to finally get at least one album out. he's been pushing for years now.

so if there is a problem, must be something else.

If LB's not the problem then what is it? I don't see LB just playing guitar on Stevie's songs while someone else is responsible for the production/ final direction they take.

[elle]

Can we please not go down the "Fleetwood Mac is nothing without ______" route again?

however much i agree with you that arguing over that is stupid, i have to say that since it's been brought up now it's actually a good time to reassess some of it. because the pricing and the speed with which these ridiculously expensive tickets are selling is showing us something we didn't quite know for sure before.

[Johnny Stew]

i don't think LB cares anymore. i think he's willing to give in to almost anything just to finally get at least one album out. he's been pushing for years now.

so if there is a problem, must be something else.

Stevie didn't want 'Say You Will' to be a double-album. Lindsey did. Ultimately it was a double-length album, so Lindsey pretty much got his wish. (* It may not have been spread over two CDs, but it was longer than 'Tusk' by two minutes. And if it were released on vinyl, it most certainly would have been a double-album.)

Stevie didn't want Mark Needham to mix the album. Lindsey did, and got his wish.

Stevie (per Lindsey's comments to the press) wanted the "heavier" songs to be sequenced later in the album. Lindsey wanted them up front. Lindsey got his wish.

Really, any reluctance Stevie has had to record with Fleetwood Mac since 'Say You Will,' is pretty justifiable when all things are considered. She got struck down on just about everything she fought for with that album. Her opinion was dismissed.

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?

[elle]

If LB's not the problem then what is it? I don't see LB just playing guitar on Stevie's songs while someone else is responsible for the production/ final direction they take.

who or what else could be the problem? no idea.

i can see him do exactly that. he'd have to make a huge effort, but i can completely see him doing that, just to get the album out instead of sitting on it for the next 3-4 years and making up excuses at every show while they are doing GH tour yet again.

[Johnny Stew]

however much i agree with you that arguing over that is stupid, i have to say that since it's been brought up now it's actually a good time to reassess some of it. because the pricing and the speed with which these ridiculously expensive tickets are selling is showing us something we didn't quite know for sure before.

Having been a fan for the past 29 years, it's not showing me anything that I didn't already know -- "The Five" together will always be the top draw for ticket-buyers.

[elle]

Stevie didn't want Mark Needham to mix the album. Lindsey did, and got his wish.

Stevie (per Lindsey's comments to the press) wanted the "heavier" songs to be sequenced later in the album. Lindsey wanted them up front. Lindsey got his wish.

Really, any reluctance Stevie has had to record with Fleetwood Mac since 'Say You Will,' is pretty justifiable when all things are considered. She got struck down on just about everything she fought for with that album. Her opinion was dismissed.

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?

Stevie is a strong woman. she's highly experienced in music industry. she's been producing stuff. people don't always agree on everything, that's normal, working on teams is a series of compromise situations. they can get the arguments out and solve any problems, all 5 together.

if i remember correctly Lord-Algae mixed at least several SN's songs on SYW (which ones were those?). if she wanted him to mix all of them, she shouldn't have given in on that. they are her songs. i don't understand why she did, if she felt so strongly about it.

sequencing is as crappy as can be on SYW, so she shouldn't have given up on that either.

Stevie has been saying she wanted to get Christine back in the band so she can get a support for her point of views (although i don't see Christine supporting anybody in particular, she seems to do what she thinks is right). she has that now. of course, you can't support your points of view if you are not there. i hope she's there.

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?
well, if she does not want to record with FM and wants them to just be a nostalgia band then she should say so - and since she hasn't i assume she is still in the band full time, which means for recording too. she's been very adamant she doesn't want to leave FM. either she's in or out, she can't just come and go. :p

[michelej1]

Stevie didn't want Mark Needham to mix the album. Lindsey did, and got his wish.



According to the documentary, that wasn't Lindsey getting his wish. They both listened to samples from the two engineers and Stevie agreed on Needham.

As for the way the album was sequenced, Lindsey said he was the only one working while they were in Hawaii. Could be if they (Stevie and Mick) had been in Los Angeles at the time, they could have got the sequencing they wanted.

As for the size of the album, the 18 song SYW was a compromise. Not as long as Lindsey wanted and not the regular album that Stevie wanted.

I don't buy the view that he trumped her on every count. It seems more like a compromise with both losing a little. But is she tired of making those compromises? Probably. If so, then just don't work with him any more. Go get someone else to produce her songs and then just hand them to FM. Take it or leave it. That would be preferable to hold outs on either side.

Michele

[michelej1]

Having been a fan for the past 29 years, it's not showing me anything that I didn't already know -- "The Five" together will always be the top draw for ticket-buyers.

It's not showing me anything either and won't until the concerts actually start and we see how many unsold seats there were, how many sold out venues, etc.

This early ticket sale scramble doesn't mean much of anything.

Michele

[elle]

It's not showing me anything either and won't until the concerts actually start and we see how many unsold seats there were, how many sold out venues, etc.

This early ticket sale scramble doesn't mean much of anything.

Michele

bein in the arena won't show you much either. i've been to plenty of nominally "sold-out" shows where you couldn't buy any tickets through primary ticket outlets, but scalpers got tons of seats and obviously over-estimated the interest for the specific band, since in the end bunch of really good seats (that you could see on stubhub before the show) were empty.

[michelej1]

bein in the arena won't show you much either. i've been to plenty of nominally "sold-out" shows where you couldn't buy any tickets through primary ticket outlets, but scalpers got tons of seats and obviously over-estimated the interest for the specific band, since in the end bunch of really good seats (that you could see on stubhub before the show) were empty.

Yeah, I don't mean physically being in the arena and looking around. I mean looking at one of those charts that tell you how many tickets were sold and the venue capacity and you can see how many were unsold that way.

Michele

[BlueDenimLamp]

Stevie didn't want 'Say You Will' to be a double-album. Lindsey did. Ultimately it was a double-length album, so Lindsey pretty much got his wish. (* It may not have been spread over two CDs, but it was longer than 'Tusk' by two minutes. And if it were released on vinyl, it most certainly would have been a double-album.)

Stevie didn't want Mark Needham to mix the album. Lindsey did, and got his wish.

Stevie (per Lindsey's comments to the press) wanted the "heavier" songs to be sequenced later in the album. Lindsey wanted them up front. Lindsey got his wish.

Really, any reluctance Stevie has had to record with Fleetwood Mac since 'Say You Will,' is pretty justifiable when all things are considered. She got struck down on just about everything she fought for with that album. Her opinion was dismissed.

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?

Well said...I think that's a fair assessment of the situation...

[elle]

Yeah, I don't mean physically being in the arena and looking around. I mean looking at one of those charts that tell you how many tickets were sold and the venue capacity and you can see how many were unsold that way.

Michele

oh, right. venue maps look almost completely sold out right now, for the shows i was checking. but they don't show platinums (although they do show resales, i'm still amazed by that :distress: ), and of course anything that will drop the last minute.

[michelej1]

Thinking of the sequencing, let me make my prediction now: new album will open with a Christine song.

Although, traditionally, the first single would be hers too, I get the feeling that this time around that won't happen. And the first single will be from someone else.

I was wondering about merchandising too. You know how they sell t-shirts with one song from Stevie and one from Lindsey? I guess Christine will have to have her own t-shirt now too. It will probably say Don't Stop, which is a pity, really.


Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Stevie is a strong woman. she's highly experienced in music industry. she's been producing stuff. people don't always agree on everything, that's normal, working on teams is a series of compromise situations. they can get the arguments out and solve any problems, all 5 together.

Which probably makes it all the more frustrating when her opinions aren't regarded. She does have experience. She does have good ideas.
But what's she going to do if they're ignored? Lindsey threatened Mick in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, that if the band didn't go ahead with the double-album idea, he might take some of his songs back. Maybe Stevie should have threatened the same. That would have put the fear of God in them.

if i remember correctly Lord-Algae mixed at least several SN's songs on SYW (which ones were those?). if she wanted him to mix all of them, she shouldn't have given in on that. they are her songs. i don't understand why she did, if she felt so strongly about it.

Chris Lord-Alge mixed only one song on the album -- "Destiny Rules." He did, however, remix "Say You Will" for its single release.

If I recall, there was some fight between Lindsey & Stevie, involving money and the mixing process (again, as seen in 'Destiny Rules'). Something about Lindsey dragging his feet and not signing off on test mixes with Chris Lord-Alge because he still wanted Mark Needham, and there being a "lost day" that someone was going to have to pay for.

Again, if I'm remembering right, the dragging of feet ultimately resulted in Chris Lord-Alge booking other work and Lindsey getting his wish.

sequencing is as crappy as can be on SYW, so she shouldn't have given up on that either.

Have you ever gotten so worn down by someone's vehement insistence on something, that you ultimately give up out of mental fatigue or because you no longer wish to fight? I can see Stevie giving in just to be able to move on.

Stevie has been saying she wanted to get Christine back in the band so she can get a support for her point of views (although i don't see Christine supporting anybody in particular, she seems to do what she thinks is right). she has that now. of course, you can't support your points of view if you are not there. i hope she's there.

I believe Stevie meant every word of that, and still does. And I believe she'll be there to support her views when she feels it's time to do that. I know I'm repeating myself, but if Christine and Lindsey are still just trying to fashion Chris' rough demos into workable songs, then this entire thing is still in too early of a stage for Stevie to offer anything of real value. So why should she just sit around the studio, doodling in her sketchbook?

[michelej1]

Which probably makes it all the more frustrating when her opinions aren't regarded. She does have experience. She does have good ideas.
But what's she going to do if they're ignored? Lindsey threatened Mick in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, that if the band didn't go ahead with the double-album idea, he might take some of his songs back. Maybe Stevie should have threatened the same. That would have put the fear of God in them.

Stevie did threaten. She threatened to only do a short tour. Lindsey realized he couldn't make any money if they only did a few tour dates and she used that leverage against him to get concessions.


If I recall, there was some fight between Lindsey & Stevie, involving money and the mixing process (again, as seen in 'Destiny Rules'). Something about Lindsey dragging his feet and not signing off on test mixes with Chris Lord-Alge because he still wanted Mark Needham, and there being a "lost day" that someone was going to have to pay for.

It cost money to mix the extra song, which is what Lindsey was teasing John about in the kitchen, but it didn't have anything to do with him having slowed down the project. That's not where the extra cost was incurred.

Also, Karen did accuse Lindsey of not signing the contract, but Lindsey got on the phone with Tony and denied doing that. He said he didn't have the authority to sign.

Yes, you can make everything in the documentary and make it look one-sided, but every good Rashomon has a neutral perspective that tells the truth as well and I think Destiny Rules showed two sides of the story.

As far as Stevie having nothing to do at this point, in the end maybe her absence right now won't have hurt anything at all. But I think people are not asking about damage at this stage. They are wondering why she's not recording. I don't think the answer to that is, "Well, they don't need her right now." That's not why she's not there. Although, certainly that may be all that matters in the end.

Michele

[elle]

So why should she just sit around the studio, doodling in her sketchbook?

because she said she has something to give, and wants to have an input. she should be well beyond doodling now, after 40 years in the business. she can add harmonies. provide ideas. and maybe get ideas what kind of her songs would fit in. and you all keep saying the same, she can and should have an input but then you turn around and say, nah she actually has completely nothing to give to this band other than her rough demos, she has no interest in others' songs. i really don't get that logic.

with SYW, my recollection from DR doc is that Stevie gave up on Lord-Algae because he didn't have enough time, and if he was involved that would delay a process.

i can understand being worn down from the argument, but if it's about something that is supposedly the most important thing in the world to me (her songs are her children, right?), i would not give up, say it's all ok and i am going with whatever you want because i care about you ("we all love Lindsey and want him to be happy so we'll go with what he wants" was in DR i believe), and then complain about it for the next 10 years. as you said, you pull out your cards and dig in, if that's so important to you. she can easily do it. and for all we know that may be exactly what she's doing now - "hey, you don't want to do what i want, i'm gonna strut around the world and try to show you how important i am till you all give in".

[BlueDenimLamp]

But is she tired of making those compromises? Probably. If so, then just don't work with him any more. Go get someone else to produce her songs and then just hand them to FM. Take it or leave it. That would be preferable to hold outs on either side.

Michele

I hope they film the part where Stevie rents her own studio and brings the band in to record her songs with a producer of her own choosing...If Stevie is that dead set against recording then maybe the band should stop trying to pressure her into it because if she is forced into recording and is miserable during the whole process how good will the finished product be???

[michelej1]

with SYW, my recollection from DR doc is that Stevie gave up on Lord-Algae because he didn't have enough time, and if he was involved that would delay a process.



Yes, it had nothing to do with Lindsey not signing the contracts having cost them more money.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

According to the documentary, that wasn't Lindsey getting his wish. They both listened to samples from the two engineers and Stevie agreed on Needham.

I don't remember Stevie agreeing to Needham because she necessarily liked what he was doing. As I mentioned in my previous post (which I was writing before reading your reply), I remember Chris Lord-Alge's schedule getting filled and Stevie consenting to "Lindsey's guy." Not really a compromise if she felt she had no other choice.

As for the way the album was sequenced, Lindsey said he was the only one working while they were in Hawaii. Could be if they (Stevie and Mick) had been in Los Angeles at the time, they could have got the sequencing they wanted.

Does someone have to be in the same location to decide sequencing? Stevie's long claimed that she listened to the 'Rumours' tracks at home and then gave the band her sequencing. If Stevie had another running order in mind, and it sounds like she did, would it have really mattered if she were in LA?


As for the size of the album, the 18 song SYW was a compromise. Not as long as Lindsey wanted and not the regular album that Stevie wanted.

I've heard this mentioned before, but I still don't see 18 songs -- a 76 minute album -- as a "compromise" between a regular album and a double. How many more songs could Lindsey have wanted? 'Tusk' only had two more, and still had a shorter running time.

I don't buy the view that he trumped her on every count. It seems more like a compromise with both losing a little.

One side lost very little in those battles.

But is she tired of making those compromises? Probably. If so, then just don't work with him any more. Go get someone else to produce her songs and then just hand them to FM. Take it or leave it. That would be preferable to hold outs on either side.

Agreed. As I've said, I don't think any of this should be viewed as Stevie "holding out." If she's trying to decide where to record, and if she's trying to decide if she wants Lindsey or someone else to produce, at least she's on board in general. Logistics are logistics.

[elle]

I hope they film the part where Stevie rents her own studio and brings the band in to record her songs with a producer of her own choosing...If Stevie is that dead set against recording then maybe the band should stop trying to pressure her into it because if she is forced into recording and is miserable during the whole process how good will the finished product be???

if she wants to be involved in the nostalgia part of that band only (which is also money-making part), they should get the album out without her.

of course, they told Christine she's out when she wanted to do just recording.

[michelej1]

I hope they film the part where Stevie rents her own studio and brings the band in to record her songs with a producer of her own choosing...If Stevie is that dead set against recording then maybe the band should stop trying to pressure her into it because if she is forced into recording and is miserable during the whole process how good will the finished product be???

The band should definitely not be trying to get Stevie to record with Lindsey as producer.

That should be the least of their worries right now. Lindsey went in to her lair and recorded Soldier's Angel and he can do that again on 3-4 songs, just to get an album out. In fact, since his ominousity is not needed by Stevie any longer, he doesn't even have to do the production work that he did on Soldier's Angel. Just go in there and sing and shut up.

Stevie said he did that once before with The Chain. She says he just went up there and sang it the way she told him, "for once in his life" he can do that again.

They have only signed up for 4 months of tour dates. The band wants a world tour. Stevie can refuse to sign up for more tour dates until they agree to records her songs the way she wants. Shouldn't be that hard.

Michele

[elle]

One side lost very little in those battles
define "very little". is it defined by the amount one bickers in the media? he gave tons of his best songs to that album. didn't he also agree not to get paid for some of them? yes he's still proud of songs on that album (as he should be!), but does he really enjoy doing all the work and getting only constant bickering as a reward? i'll give in to you now because i care about you but you'll never hear the end of it in the media after that?? i don't know.

As I've said, I don't think any of this should be viewed as Stevie "holding out." If she's trying to decide where to record, and if she's trying to decide if she wants Lindsey or someone else to produce, at least she's on board in general. Logistics are logistics.
she had tons of time to decide that months ago, why start only now?

[michelej1]

Does someone have to be in the same location to decide sequencing?

You don't, but someone might have to be in Los Angeles to convince the record execs to go along with their ideas. You can have more influence in person than you can via telephone. Stevie knows this. That's why you can see her and Lindsey vying to influence the record executives when they are in the studio listening to SYW.

The record execs probably have to sign off on the sequencing and they decide what the first single is. If Lindsey is there pushing his side and the rest of the band is miles away, then of course his side is going to have more influence.

If she chose Needham because her guy didn't have time, that is not Lindsey forcing his desires on her.

As far as a double album goes, since we aren't using vinyl anymore, the SYW double album could have held way more songs than Tusk did. And, a double album may have given them the space to sequence the songs better (since you think this was such a loss for Stevie) and, perhaps, even break them up into themes for Disc 1 and Disc 2, so it would have been more cohesive.

At any rate, the 18-song SYW didn't come off as being such a coup for Lindsey in DR as you make it out to be. Michele

[michelej1]

define "very little".

Define "side.' I think the opinion of one side losing very little tends to vary, depending on what side you're on.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Stevie did threaten. She threatened to only do a short tour. Lindsey realized he couldn't make any money if they only did a few tour dates and she used that leverage against him to get concessions.

Lindsey said, "if there's any chance even that Stevie were to have pulled out after 40 dates, I couldn't take the chance and do that."

It's very possible that she did threaten to do that, but we don't know with certainty that she did. Lindsey was definitely worried that she might, though. His scenario -- tour, do another album, tour -- in order to recoup his losses on releasing a double album, sure did require quite a gamble. It also placed a lot of expectations on his band-mates.

I need to re-watch parts of 'Destiny Rules' again, because I remember some of that argument differently.

As far as Stevie having nothing to do at this point, in the end maybe her absence right now won't have hurt anything at all. But I think people are not asking about damage at this stage. They are wondering why she's not recording. I don't think the answer to that is, "Well, they don't need her right now." That's not why she's not there. Although, certainly that may be all that matters in the end.

While I don't at all believe she's needed right now, that's not to say I believe it's the reason she's not there. My only argument is that there's no reason to stress about that fact, or to jump to the conclusion that Stevie's not "on board" with an album.

[Johnny Stew]

define "very little". is it defined by the amount one bickers in the media? he gave tons of his best songs to that album. didn't he also agree not to get paid for some of them? yes he's still proud of songs on that album (as he should be!), but does he really enjoy doing all the work and getting only constant bickering as a reward? i'll give in to you now because i care about you but you'll never hear the end of it in the media after that?? i don't know.

Lindsey agreed to not get paid on a certain amount of songs, if it were going to be a double-album. That has something to do with the way mechanical royalties are worked out, when you're both the songwriter and performer. When he feared that Stevie might not tour beyond 40 dates, he backed off. So, he most certainly did get paid for his eight songs.

she had tons of time to decide that months ago, why start only now?

Who said she only just started to decide? Plus, we don't know what's been decided in the weeks since those interviews were given.

[michelej1]

It's very possible that she did threaten to do that, but we don't know with certainty that she did. Lindsey was definitely worried that she might, though. His scenario -- tour, do another album, tour -- in order to recoup his losses on releasing a double album, sure did require quite a gamble.

The one tour, the tour that they actually did, was all he needed to recoup his losses on a double album. And they were planning to tour anyway. So, it wasn't putting added pressure on his bandmates. The only way they were not going to do a full tour is if he and Stevie could not get over their recording conflicts and she didn't sign on for the long tour that was already contemplated. It's not like he was expecting them to obligate their lives for 5 years to make up for the cost of one double album.

Yes, if they did another album (as he wanted after SYW) he would have wanted to tour after that, but that second album and tour were not related to making up his losses for a double album. I think it was just about making music and playing new music in concert.

Michele

[elle]

Who said she only just started to decide? Plus, we don't know what's been decided in the weeks since those interviews were given.

you. ;) :xoxo:

all major decisions should be sorted out by now. and i hope they are. but yeah, we have no clue. this whole thread is a complete speculation. but fun nevertheless.

[michelej1]

Lindsey agreed to not get paid on a certain amount of songs, if it were going to be a double-album. That has something to do with the way mechanical royalties are worked out, when you're both the songwriter and performer. When he feared that Stevie might not tour beyond 40 dates, he backed off. So, he most certainly did get paid for his eight songs.


I don't know what the limit is, 12 or 10 tracks. I think 12. But Lindsey was planning to absorb the cost for SYW going over that limit and planned to make up the difference with the tour proceeds.

Michele

[elle]

Yes, if they did another album (as he wanted after SYW) he would have wanted to tour after that, but that second album and tour were not related to making up his losses for a double album. I think it was just about making music and playing new music in concert.

Michele

as he's been eager to do with FM ever since.

luckily for his solo fans and their finances, SN keeps putting a stop to that.

[michelej1]

Discussing tracks per album, that "controlled composition" clause is on a per album basis, not a per artist basis.

So, if the record company is only paying mechanical royalties on 10 songs, it's not 10 songs written by Lindsey, in addition to 10 songs written by Stevie. It's 10 songwriter/performer songs on the SYW album, period. Then, they don't get paid for songs in excess of 10, the record company deducts that excess amount from the royalties.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

The record execs probably have to sign off on the sequencing and they decide what the first single is. If Lindsey is there pushing his side and the rest of the band is miles away, then of course his side is going to have more influence.

I'm not discounting your point of view, but I don't believe I've ever heard an artist stating that the record company had any influence on their album's running order. They give other notes, sure. "I don't hear a single." "You need to go in another direction." But I don't think they'd say, "'Murrow' needs to follow 'Smile At You.'"

If she chose Needham because her guy didn't have time, that is not Lindsey forcing his desires on her.

If Lindsey dragged his feet to the point where she had no choice, what else is she going to do? As we've seen many times with this band, passive-aggressively is certainly one way to force your will on someone.

As far as a double album goes, since we aren't using vinyl anymore, the SYW double album could have held way more songs than Tusk did. And, a double album may have given them the space to sequence the songs better (since you think this was such a loss for Stevie) and, perhaps, even break them up into themes for Disc 1 and Disc 2, so it would have been more cohesive.

Off-topic, but I wonder how many more songs we'd have seen if there had been two discs. We know of course that "Not Make Believe" and "Love Minus Zero" were completed. And, in his 2003 Guitar World interview with Lindsey, Art Thompson mentioned "I Am Waiting" and "Gift Of Screws" as possible candidates when the unfinished album was previewed for him.

I'd love to know if there were additional Stevie tracks completed, and if any of the other 'GoS' recordings were in the running. Or if the double-album would have consisted of those 22 songs spread across two discs.

At any rate, the 18-song SYW didn't come off as being such a coup for Lindsey in DR as you make it out to be.

Still seemed a lot closer to his vision than anyone else's.

[Johnny Stew]

The one tour, the tour that they actually did, was all he needed to recoup his losses on a double album. And they were planning to tour anyway. So, it wasn't putting added pressure on his bandmates. The only way they were not going to do a full tour is if he and Stevie could not get over their recording conflicts and she didn't sign on for the long tour that was already contemplated. It's not like he was expecting them to obligate their lives for 5 years to make up for the cost of one double album.

Lindsey's exact quote was:

"The only reason I was willing to eat the kind of money that would have made the double-album possible, in terms of bringing the price down... I had to contemplate a scenario which would have been to do much more touring, to do another album and to do more touring after that."

Obviously the one tour was not going to be enough. He was going to need to tour longer than 40 dates, and do another album, and another tour.

[Johnny Stew]

you. ;) :xoxo:

all major decisions should be sorted out by now. and i hope they are. but yeah, we have no clue. this whole thread is a complete speculation. but fun nevertheless.

I said she may still be deciding... I didn't say she's only started to decide.

I do agree with you that the speculation is fun. I also agree that all the major decisions may have already been ironed out.

[elle]

Still seemed a lot closer to his vision than anyone else's.

there were visions other than his? what were they, How To Compose Popular Songs That Will Sell (in the words of Bob Geldof)? ;)

i pray to commercial gods...

[Macfanforever]

We are so lucky at this moment that all 5 members will be standing in front of us in person this fall.

If they record.Its a bonus for us.I'm not going to hold it against them if they dont.

We just got to relax wait and see what they will do and we will be the first ones to find out.

In time. We got our IYD DVD's even signed by Stevie.Also we got a EP of FM.

Just like when the rumours were floating around when Chris was with Mick at his place and later she wanted to join FM for those shows in London plus the news that she want rejoin FM for this upcoming tour.

[Johnny Stew]

there were visions other than his? what were they, How To Compose Popular Songs That Will Sell (in the words of Bob Geldof)? ;)

i pray to commercial gods...

Edgy and avant-garde aren't the only visions an artist can have for their songs. You can also want to craft music that people can relate to. That will have wide appeal.

(And Stevie only said she prayed to the "commercial gods" regarding one song -- "Say You Will." Can anyone argue that "Running Through The Garden" or "Illume" or "Goodbye Baby" are commercial? She wrote those songs too, ya know.)

[elle]

We are so lucky at this moment that all 5 members will be standing in front of us in person this fall.

If they record.Its a bonus for us.I'm not going to hold it against them if they dont.

We just got to relax wait and see what they will do and we will be the first ones to find out.

well some of us do not like the idea of them doing a cash-grab tour, then an album, then another tour, which seems to be going at least through 2016.

Lindsey is 64. i'd like to see a few more solo albums and interesting tours out of him while he's in his prolific phase, instead of this running in the rat wheel trying to get one FM album out for the last 5 years now, while doing boring GH cash-grab tours which are extremely expensive to go to. and it looks like it will be at least one more year before we actually get to see it out, and that seems to be the best case scenario.:distress: apparently you all are telling me i should be happy with that turn of events. but i'm not. i'm extremely unhappy and disappointed. :sorry:

[elle]

Edgy and avant-garde aren't the only visions an artist can have for their songs. You can also want to craft music that people can relate to. That will have wide appeal.

(And Stevie only said she prayed to the "commercial gods" regarding one song -- "Say You Will." Can anyone argue that "Running Through The Garden" or "Illume" or "Goodbye Baby" are commercial? She wrote those songs too, ya know.)

ah. thought we were discussing a vision for the album, not songs.

(yeah, i try to forget those songs are on SYW :p )

[ragrsrocalot]

mWe are so lucky at this moment that all 5 members will be standing in front of us in person this fall.

If they record.Its a bonus for us.I'm not going to hold it against the if they dont.

We just got to relax wait and see what they will do and we will be the first ones to find out.

In time. We got our IYD DVD's even signed by Stevie.Also we got a EP of FM.

Just like when the rumours were floating around when Chris was with Mick at his place and later she wanted to join FM for those shows in London plus the news that she want rejoin FM for this upcoming tour.

Exactly!!!

[Macfanforever]

well some of us do not like the idea of them doing a cash-grab tour, then an album, then another tour, which seems to be going at least through 2016.

Lindsey is 64. i'd like to see a few more solo albums and interesting tours out of him while he's in his prolific phase, instead of this running in the rat wheel trying to get one FM album out for the last 5 years now, while doing boring GH cash-grab tours which are extremely expensive to go to. and it looks like it will be at least one more year before we actually get to see it out, and that seems to be the best case scenario.:distress: apparently you all are telling me i should be happy with that turn of events. but i'm not. i'm extremely unhappy and disappointed. :sorry:

Yes I agree on that also with these ticket prices lately .they're nuts.So far I'm only scheduled to see one show in the fall with these inflated tix prices.

If they tour in summer 2015 I will catch more shows hopefully cheaper tix prices at the shed shows.

[Johnny Stew]

ah. thought we were discussing a vision for the album, not songs.

It's the same difference, no? When you're crafting songs with an eye toward releasing an album, then it follows that whatever vision you have for the songs is the vision you have for the album as a whole.

Stevie envisioned an album that sounded more like "Fleetwood Mac." Seems that many fans and critics were hoping for the same thing.

(yeah, i try to forget those songs are on SYW :p )

Of course you do -- Stevie wrote them. ;) :p :xoxo: :laugh: :D

[MikeVielhaber]

We are so lucky at this moment that all 5 members will be standing in front of us in person this fall.

If they record.Its a bonus for us.I'm not going to hold it against them if they dont.

We just got to relax wait and see what they will do and we will be the first ones to find out.

In time. We got our IYD DVD's even signed by Stevie.Also we got a EP of FM.

Just like when the rumours were floating around when Chris was with Mick at his place and later she wanted to join FM for those shows in London plus the news that she want rejoin FM for this upcoming tour.

I disagree on the premise the an album is a bonus. I likely will have to skip the tour because costs are prohibitive, but an album is something I can afford AND lasts forever. They're two separate things, not one added to the other.

That being said, the way the talk about recording an album seems like they expect it to happen....not a case of maybe it'll happen or maybe it won't....which is a stance they've taken before.

[Johnny Stew]

I disagree on the premise the an album is a bonus. I likely will have to skip the tour because costs are prohibitive, but an album is something I can afford AND lasts forever. They're two separate things, not one added to the other.

I'm with you, Mike -- I don't go to concerts, so I'm most looking forward to an album. I want new music, dagnabbit!!

I really do believe it's going to happen though, so I'm not stressing.

[michelej1]

If Lindsey dragged his feet to the point where she had no choice, what else is she going to do? As we've seen many times with this band, passive-aggressively is certainly one way to force your will on someone.


But no one said that Lindsey's delay in signing the contract had anything to do with the engineer not having time. That connection was not made in the documentary. No one said, "if you'd gotten to me 2 days earlier," I could have done it. It sounded like the guy's schedule was booked.

And Stevie could certainly have found another engineer if she really disliked Needham's work. Lord-Alge was not the only one on the planet.

And just because Karen and Stevie's camp said that Lindsey was dragging his feet, that's not proof that that's actually what he was doing. That's just their perception. He and Dimitriades had another opinion of what the hold up was.

Stevie ended up using Lindsey's engineer but there is no evidence that it was Lindsey's fault that she had to.

As for sequencing, one of the Beatles' big complaints was that Capitol was messing up the sequencing on their albums or "butchering" them, as they said. I guess they had it their way on the British releases, but then when the album was done in the U.S. the sequencing was what the record company wanted and not what the band wanted. Lennon has given interviews about this.

Being in the place where the music equipment is and hearing the various track selections in different orders during the decision making process naturally gives the person on location more influence than the people in "Hawaii" get.

Michele

[michelej1]

apparently you all are telling me i should be happy with that turn of events.

You should be and when you went to the first show of the last tour, your eyes should have been gleaming and dewy about Sad Angel. You shouldn't have been "disappointed."

Michele

[michelej1]

Lindsey's exact quote was:

"The only reason I was willing to eat the kind of money that would have made the double-album possible, in terms of bringing the price down... I had to contemplate a scenario which would have been to do much more touring, to do another album and to do more touring after that."


I don't think Lindsey finished his sentence about bringing the price down.

Seeing as how the second album would not have paid for anything, but only would have cost more money, the second album could not have been envisioned to pay off the double album any more than Mirage paid off Tusk.

Michele

[shackin'up]

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?

Mick, John and mainly Lindsey worked their asses off for almost a year on SN her songs. She wasn't there, until the vocal parts were planned in her schedule. She was not happy with the result and the sequencing.

Why? Because she wasn't there when they recorded and arranged her instrumental tracks, and I believe she was in Hawaii when Lindsey conquered the sequencing and handed in an album that was not sequencedin Stevie's way. (Again, she wasn't there).

If you are a band, be there, and influence the process. If You're not. Stop whining afterwards. You can defend her until eternity, I 'm basicly very sad that she does not record with Chris, Mick and Lindsey now. She should. There will NOT be a good FM album without the influence from all, as a unity.

[Macfanforever]

I disagree on the premise the an album is a bonus. I likely will have to skip the tour because costs are prohibitive, but an album is something I can afford AND lasts forever. They're two separate things, not one added to the other.

That being said, the way the talk about recording an album seems like they expect it to happen....not a case of maybe it'll happen or maybe it won't....which is a stance they've taken before.

Yes I have to say you are right.

I agree 100 percent on the inflated ticket prices. $10.00 to $15 bucks for a CD verses $200 plus bucks for a concert is understandable.

I know it kills me but I'm down to one show from 5 plus shows on this upcoming tour.I got some medical bills and property taxes to be taken care of.

Its beyond me these shows are selling out at these high ticket prices.

[MikeInNV]

Being in the place where the music equipment is and hearing the various track selections in different orders during the decision making process naturally gives the person on location more influence than the people in "Hawaii" get.

I know I've mentioned this before, but I don't know if anyone confirmed it for me. I thought the big SYW fight was that Lindsey decided to change the running order after it had supposedly been decided. I thought the others went to Hawaii thinking the matter was settled, and when it wasn't, that's when the trouble ensued. Does anyone else remember this? Because I have no chance of figuring out where I got the idea.

[MikeInNV]

It's amazing to me that as Ledgies, we can be bigger drama queens than the band themselves. :D

Mick needs more studio time than Stevie, and he's booking Blues Band shows, showing up at a Dollar Loan corporate event, and working on a TV show. Why no thread where we can all lose our sh*t over that? :laugh:

Seriously though, my personal opinion is that no one in the band ever had any intention of getting an album out before the tour, so no one feels the need to rush to get everything done in the next couple months. They're taking their time, and that's probably a good thing. For one thing, I think John needs all the recovery time he can get.

[Johnny Stew]

Mick, John and mainly Lindsey worked their asses off for almost a year on SN her songs. She wasn't there, until the vocal parts were planned in her schedule. She was not happy with the result and the sequencing.

Why? Because she wasn't there when they recorded and arranged her instrumental tracks, and I believe she was in Hawaii when Lindsey conquered the sequencing and handed in an album that was not sequencedin Stevie's way. (Again, she wasn't there).

If you are a band, be there, and influence the process. If You're not. Stop whining afterwards. You can defend her until eternity, I 'm basicly very sad that she does not record with Chris, Mick and Lindsey now. She should. There will NOT be a good FM album without the influence from all, as a unity.

It doesn't seem to be Lindsey's production work on Stevie's songs that she had a problem with, Gerald. She told Performing Songwriter in 2003, that her songs are "100 percent more terrific after Lindsey works on them." Now, she could have been speaking in generalities, but I don't think she would have paid him that compliment in the same way right after they'd finished 'Say You Will,' if she were seriously unhappy with the production work on the songs they'd just completed.

The things she seemed most angry about -- the mixing and sequencing, as we've already mentioned -- were things she was, in some shape or form, around for. Michele has argued (and I see her point) that Stevie wasn't "around" for the sequencing, because she wasn't in the states. But I still disagree that not being physically present in L.A., negated or limited Stevie's opinion on the matter. Half of the songs were still hers and she should have had a say.

At any rate, there's another quote of Stevie's from Performing Songwriter, that I think is perfect for this topic:

"We're both really selfish, and it's like, 'No, I want it to be this way!' It's like you have two serious bulls in a pen, and we argue all the time. There's continual trauma. But does it make for incredible works of music? Yeah, it does."

As I've said, I think she just doesn't want to fight and argue anymore.

[Johnny Stew]

Mick needs more studio time than Stevie, and he's booking Blues Band shows, showing up at a Dollar Loan corporate event, and working on a TV show. Why no thread where we can all lose our sh*t over that? :laugh:

Lol! That is an interesting phenomenon!

[sorcerer999]

In my opinion, things will progress the way they've always progressed in regards to Stevie's involvement with the band since the "Mirage" era. 90% of the studio work will be done without her, including the instrumentation on whatever "vault" songs she might have given them.

She will then come in and spend a month or two laying down the vocals on her vault songs and harmonies on Linds and Chris' songs. She will probably bring in 2 or 3 new songs that they will work on during this period as well.

If they bring in a filmmaker to document the reunion of the complete "Rumours" lineup, they'll film tidbits here and there at the beginning, but for the most part will do a majority of the filming during Stevie's studio time in an effort to show ALL FIVE members at play.

I have mixed feelings over a new studio album, especially after the last one. If the pieces can come together and the "magic" is there...if the quality of the songwriting can still strike emotional chords after all this time...and if EVERYONE brings their "A Game" with an understanding that this could very well be the LAST F. Mac studio record, then of course we'll all be overjoyed, not only the die-hards like us, but the casual Mac fan as well.

If they're just going through the motions to make money...if the songs make me want to puke (a la "Silver Girl" or "Red Rover")...if the chemistry between the band members is painfully stale, then it will be a bomb and a disappointment with EVERYONE and will be that final nail in the coffin, album wise.

Touring, as we all know, won't be affected. They'll probably do that for years and years. Just my opinion...but I really hope that a new, bad ass classic album comes to fruition, despite record sales. I've always been about the quality! I know they can do it! :)

[elle]

Mick needs more studio time than Stevie, and he's booking Blues Band shows, showing up at a Dollar Loan corporate event, and working on a TV show. Why no thread where we can all lose our sh*t over that? :laugh:

well, Mick was reported as being in the studio with FM, his drums are all over every single photo we got from the village recorder in March, and he and others in the band have been on record as saying he's all in, working with them in the studio, that's why he's renting a house with Christine and staying in LA.

for SN, other band members (Chris and Lindsey) were saying that she is still trying to figure out when and how to join them. both Christine and Lindsey talked in the media about currently working on the new FM album, while SN had plenty of opportunity to say the same during her recent media exposure and she hasn't. so it's not like they have group gag thing that they can't talk about the new album they are working on, because if that was the case, Mick, Chris and Lindsey wouldn't be talking about it either. SN has also said she doesn't know what she's doing for the next few months, that she has nothing to do.

so there's just all that. :shrug:

[BLY]

All of the albums with this line up are classics. This one will be too. JusT PLEASE release it before or at the beginning of the tour for all the obvious reasons.

[elle]

All of the albums with this line up are classics. This one will be too. JusT PLEASE release it before or at the beginning of the tour for all the obvious reasons.

:thumbsup:

[Johnny Stew]

for SN, other band members (Chris and Lindsey) were saying that she is still trying to figure out when and how to join them.

Minor correction -- Christine hasn't said anything about Stevie not being in the studio. Lindsey is the only who's commented on that. Mind you, I have no reason not to believe him, but I just wanted to clarify that Christine hasn't commented on Stevie in those regards.

well, Mick was reported as being in the studio with FM, his drums are all over every single photo we got from the village recorder in March, and he and others in the band have been on record as saying he's all in, working with them in the studio, that's why he's renting a house with Christine and staying in LA.

Mike still brought up a good point... even though Mick was there in the studio initially, he still has quite a few extracurricular activities running, and no one's fretting about that. Yet his presence would be even more essential in the studio right now, than Stevie's would be. Sounds like John hasn't been there much either (for extremely understandable reasons). So I don't get the feeling there's any real sense of urgency just yet anyway.

[Johnny Stew]

One additional comment to Elle... Stevie's comment about not having anything going on for the "next few months," was made before the official announcement of Christine's return. Remember, she even back-tracked a little right after she mentioned hitting the road this fall.

I don't think she was wanting to let the cat out of the bag -- even though, for us, Christine's return was a foregone conclusion by then.

[elle]

One additional comment to Elle... Stevie's comment about not having anything going on for the "next few months," was made before the official announcement of Christine's return. Remember, she even back-tracked a little right after she mentioned hitting the road this fall.

so if SN is onboard with the album recording and all in now, why not say anything about it at her recent media appearances? by all the FB activity, i think she had bunch just within the last week.

yes, no urgency. Mick and Christine are renting and paying for a huge mansion in LA, and FM is paying studio time at the village recorder (that SN said she could not afford more than a week when she was recording IYD), just becuase they feel like throwing away some money and hang out, i guess.

[Johnny Stew]

so if SN is onboard with the album recording and all in now, why not say anything about it at her recent media appearances? by all the FB activity, i think she had bunch just within the last week.

I don't recall any of the red-carpet journalists asking her about an album. If they had asked, and she shied away from answering, then I'd be worried. All everyone asked about was the tour, because that's what casual fans are most interested in.

yes, no urgency. Mick and Christine are renting and paying for a huge mansion in LA, and FM is paying studio time at the village recorder (that SN said she could not afford more than a week when she was recording IYD), just becuase they feel like throwing away some money and hang out, i guess.

We know they were in the studio. Do we know for sure that they still are? Maybe they only booked a few weeks to get the ball rolling.

Did I say they're just wanting to hang out and throw away money? That's quite a leap from anything I said. The work in the studio -- by all accounts -- was to start getting Christine's demos in shape. Plus, let's not forget that Lindsey said, in reference to working in the studio, "It will be a little bit of a slow process with her piano chops. But all the stuff inside her is still intact, and she's getting in touch with a process that's been lying dormant for a while."

So... they're obviously easing into things.

As for the mansion -- Christine has to have somewhere to stay while she's living in the states, no?

My point about there being no sense of urgency, is that -- if Fleetwood Mac doesn't intend to have an album out within the next four or five months, then obviously the band members can line up other things. Or, in the case of John, continue to rest and get his strength back. In other words, it's not yet "crunch time."

[michelej1]

I know I've mentioned this before, but I don't know if anyone confirmed it for me. I thought the big SYW fight was that Lindsey decided to change the running order after it had supposedly been decided. I thought the others went to Hawaii thinking the matter was settled, and when it wasn't, that's when the trouble ensued. Does anyone else remember this? Because I have no chance of figuring out where I got the idea.

No, I don't think that the band has ever really outlined what the sequencing problem was and I never heard that it was agreed upon and changed without anyone's permission.

Michele

[sorcerer999]

All of the albums with this line up are classics. This one will be too. JusT PLEASE release it before or at the beginning of the tour for all the obvious reasons.

Considering the tour starts in 5 months, that's just not going to happen.

[michelej1]

It doesn't seem to be Lindsey's production work on Stevie's songs that she had a problem with, Gerald. She told Performing Songwriter in 2003, that her songs are "100 percent more terrific after Lindsey works on them." Now, she could have been speaking in generalities, but I don't think she would have paid him that compliment in the same way right after they'd finished 'Say You Will,' if she were seriously unhappy with the production work on the songs they'd just completed.



She talked to Performing Songwriter before the tour. At that point she was saying more flattering things about the album. AFTER the tour, she did say she wasn't happy with the album or the time they spent producing it.

You can certainly sequence an album from out-of-state. My point is, if the parties are in disagreement. the one who is in Los Angeles doing the work on finishing the album is probably the one who will have the most say over it. Mick has said in the past that since John and Stevie are the ones who are present the least, they are the ones with the least say. You credit Lindsey with always getting his way (which I don't think he did on SYW at all) as it being because Stevie loses their fights. But everyone knows he puts in the most hours. That's the way he wants it. He puts in the time because he wants the control. if other people don't want it as much, that's what they get. If is because he's such a tyrant or because others don't have the production commitment?

If you want to win a sequencing battle with him, maybe you should be there when the album is being sequenced. If you want control over the finishing touches finalized before the album is distributed to the public, BE THERE when the finishing touches are being made. You think that sequencing is just making a list with the song order on it. But we don't know what it entails. We don't know who has to approve that list. I certainly think there's a listening party with record execs before the albums are actually made, with the final running sequence in place. If Lindsey's in there pushing his view as to why the album should begin the way it does and there's no one else there saying, "No we need to grab them with a more commercial song first. Let's start with the single ..." then Lindsey is going to have influence that the absent parties don't have.

Then too, talking about Say You Will as the album title == they made many decisions that we don't know about, where maybe Stevie's preference DID prevail. So, just because the known arguments went to Lindsey in your view (I don't think the double album argument DID go to him) doesn't mean that he always got his way. Maybe there were arguments over other things like CD title (or the name of the next tour, "Unleashed" or whether or not they would take new publicity photos for that tour) that she won.

Destiny Rules was edited and presented in a way to create drama, like a reality tv show does. It doesn't tell the full story of the relationship. It didn't cover all the conflicts and victories that each party had, I'm sure.

At any rate since you're sure that Stevie is so onboard with an album, I'm surprised that you're arguing about how oppressive it was to record SYW for her. To me, you're explaining why she is NOT onboard for a new album, not the opposite.

Michele

[secondhandchain]

If Stevie was praying to the commercial Gods for the song "Say you Will", she didn't pray hard enough. That song sounds like a 2nd grader wrote it. It has a note range of about 3 notes. :laugh::sorry:

[Johnny Stew]

She talked to Performing Songwriter before the tour. At that point she was saying more flattering things about the album. AFTER the tour, she did say she wasn't happy with the album or the time they spent producing it.

Before the tour, Lindsey told the press that Stevie was "seeing part of this record through some dark colours right now -- only because towards the end we had some conflicts about running order and some other things, and she hasn't quite been able to come out the other end and say, 'Wow, this is really something!'"

So I don't think it mattered, timing-wise, that her more flattering comments were made before the tour. She was presumably still angry when she talked to Performing Songwriter. And I do still think that, overall, she was pleased with the production of her songs -- just not pleased with the battles that followed.

You can certainly sequence an album from out-of-state. My point is, if the parties are in disagreement. the one who is in Los Angeles doing the work on finishing the album is probably the one who will have the most say over it. Mick has said in the past that since John and Stevie are the ones who are present the least, they are the ones with the least say. You credit Lindsey with always getting his way (which I don't think he did on SYW at all) as it being because Stevie loses their fights. But everyone knows he puts in the most hours. That's the way he wants it. He puts in the time because he wants the control. if other people don't want it as much, that's what they get. If is because he's such a tyrant or because others don't have the production commitment?

Hey, I make no bones about the fact that Lindsey puts in more actual physical time in the studio than anyone else in the band does. But I still see it as their album -- not just his -- and I feel they should all have an equal say, whether they're sitting next to him or calling from their hotel room.

At any rate since you're sure that Stevie is so onboard with an album, I'm surprised that you're arguing about how oppressive it was to record SYW for her. To me, you're explaining why she is NOT onboard for a new album, not the opposite.

Quite honestly, I think the only reason she's on board for an album, is Christine. Stevie & Lindsey seem to be in a better place now, but I don't think that alone would ever be enough to sway her. Especially since that could all easily go south.

[michelej1]

So I don't think it mattered, timing-wise, that her more flattering comments were made before the tour. She was presumably still angry when she talked to Performing Songwriter. And I do still think that, overall, she was pleased with the production of her songs -- just not pleased with the battles that followed.




In 2009 the Sunday Express interview said:

By the time of Fleetwood Mac’s last tour, 2003’s Say You Will, Stevie’s relationship with Buckingham had become so fraught that, unless he treated her better this time around, she threatened to walk away “so fast that palm tree tops will fall on his head”.

Now, she says the underlying problem was how much she hated the Say You Will album.

“It was five years ago now so I can say I didn’t like it at all; I didn’t like making it, I didn’t like the songs, so that tour was very hard for me.”

On a Greatest Hits tour, however, there is no new material to quibble over.

“Doing all the very famous material is actually more fun,” insists this born entertainer. “It’s been a breath of fresh air for us to not have to worry about trying to sell [new] songs.”

***
With five platinum-selling solo records to her name, Stevie is easily the most successful member of Fleetwood Mac. Wasn’t she tempted to walk away during Say You Will?

“Well, I’m a peacemaker and I didn’t want us to break up because the music didn’t go my way. If I’ve learned nothing else in my 61 years it is that four years down the line you’re over it.” She sees the remaining foursome touring for another seven or eight years.


I think she had a problem with the SONGS and the MUSIC.

As far as it being a band's album, then you need to act like you're part of the band and be part of the process. When you're on vacation, you just don't get as much of a say.

We don't know what the sequencing fight was. We know what the sequence is and from the way the album starts off, it seems that Lindsey got his way, but we actually don't know. It's a conclusion we make because of the first 3 songs. No one thinks that Stevie would have chosen those to lead the album. So, that's our assumption. Still, if the first two songs were Lindsey's idea, it doesn't mean the entire 18 songs were sequenced his way. Even the finished sequence can be part of a compromise. Maybe that's why RTTG and Silver Girl are back to back. Maybe that wasn't Lindsey's idea. They haven't actually talked about the sequencing fight for us to know WHAT it was, whose views were what.

Michele

[michelej1]

I think this is the longest description of the sequencing conflict we've ever gotten below, as vague as it is. It doesn't indicate that she had no say in the end sequence outcome. The fact that it's an awful track listing and that she doesn't like it may be the inconsistent result of compromise, just as easily as it could be one person getting everything he wanted over the other:

"There were some problems with the track-listing near the end", confides the guitarist, now 53. "Stevie was in Hawaii on vacation while I was in Los Angeles trying to master the album, and we got into some over-the-phone conflicts. It's been hard for Stevie to feel good about what we've accomplished, and I really hope she will at some point. She's yet to say 'Good work on my songs, Lindsey.' "

Another interview, sounds like they worked it out together, though the process was painful:

Buckingham is clearly proud of what he brought to "Say You Will." But he sounded peeved that, while the rest of the band went to Hawaii on vacation, he had to remain behind to complete mixing and sequencing the album.

"Well, somebody had to finish the record!" he said. "So that (process) went through a whole series of political spasms and not-very-pleasant phone conversations. But we got there."

Now you will recall that round of pre-tour interviews where Lindsey was bleating she never thanked him several times and Stevie was going, "Oh, did he say that? Of course I thank him?" And she said complimentary things then, but then after the tour was over, she confessed she hated the album.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

In 2009 the Sunday Express interview said:

I think she had a problem with the SONGS and the MUSIC.

I don't think I've ever read that interview, so I concede that I was wrong about her feelings regarding the music on the album. Although -- and I know this is just nit-picking -- she didn't say which songs she didn't like or if it was specifically her songs she was unhappy with. She could very well have been referring to songs like "Murrow," "Come" (even Lindsey has joked about her distaste for that song) and "Red Rover."
(Which could explain why she's not singing on any of those tracks.)


We don't know what the sequencing fight was. We know what the sequence is and from the way the album starts off, it seems that Lindsey got his way, but we actually don't know. It's a conclusion we make because of the first 3 songs. No one thinks that Stevie would have chosen those to lead the album. So, that's our assumption.

Lindsey said (and I wish I could remember in which interview) that it was Stevie's desire to bury the album's heavier songs later in the album, but that he wanted them up front. So it's definitely more than an assumption.
But, yes, you're right that we don't know if any of the rest of the sequencing was born out of compromise.

[michelej1]

I don't think I've ever read that interview, so I concede that I was wrong about her feelings regarding the music on the album. Although -- and I know this is just nit-picking -- she didn't say which songs she didn't like or if it was specifically her songs she was unhappy with. She could very well have been referring to songs like "Murrow," "Come" (even Lindsey has joked about her distaste for that song) and "Red Rover."
(Which could explain why she's not singing on any of those tracks.)


I would think that if she liked her own SYW songs, she'd have mentioned that, as she has done when she has talked about the Tusk album, by distinguishing hers and Christine's songs from Lindsey's.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

I would think that if she liked her own SYW songs, she'd have mentioned that, as she has done when she has talked about the Tusk album, by distinguishing hers and Christine's songs from Lindsey's.

Very possible, but also an assumption. (Not taking you to task for that -- many of the things I've stated are assumptions, too.)

At any rate, I'm feeling like I'm just repeating myself and going in circles, so I think I'll bow out of this conversation now.

I understand the argument to the contrary, but I still feel that Stevie -- while certainly not logging as many hours as Lindsey -- spent more than enough time in the studio with Fleetwood Mac during the making of 'Say You Will' (pretty much the entirety of 2002), to be allowed an opinion on the result of her songs, the mixing, etc. Her contribution to that album wasn't just limited to two or three weeks, like it was with 'Mirage' and 'Tango.'

[MikeVielhaber]

Very possible, but also an assumption. (Not taking you to task for that -- many of the things I've stated are assumptions, too.)

At any rate, I'm feeling like I'm just repeating myself and going in circles, so I think I'll bow out of this conversation now.

I understand the argument to the contrary, but I still feel that Stevie -- while certainly not logging as many hours as Lindsey -- spent more than enough time in the studio with Fleetwood Mac during the making of 'Say You Will' (pretty much the entirety of 2002), to be allowed an opinion on the result of her songs, the mixing, etc. Her contribution to that album wasn't just limited to two or three weeks, like it was with 'Mirage' and 'Tango.'

I don't think anyone's saying she doesn't have say in the matter, but she also wasn't around to make sure her voice was heard. She was vacationing while Lindsey was at work. If it was important enough to her she could've been there too. It makes sense that Lindsey had more say because he's the one who was there the whole time. Not that he had more right to do it, but it's just natural that it worked out that way.

[elle]

I understand the argument to the contrary, but I still feel that Stevie -- while certainly not logging as many hours as Lindsey -- spent more than enough time in the studio with Fleetwood Mac during the making of 'Say You Will' (pretty much the entirety of 2002), to be allowed an opinion on the result of her songs, the mixing, etc. Her contribution to that album wasn't just limited to two or three weeks, like it was with 'Mirage' and 'Tango.'

i know what you are saying about going in circles...

there's an interview somewhere where SN said after SYW how when her songs don't sound the way she envisioned them, it feels like they are not her songs anymore, and she's not happy about them anymore. while she may have hated Come, i don't think songs like that was what she was talking about.

"allowed an opinion"? not sure what that means? who would not allow her an opinion? :confused: someone can discount her opinion, like she discounts an opinion about proper grammar usage in the songs. but from the statements made, it seems like after a lot of arguing - where everybody's opinion was allowed and expressed - they ended up with some kind of compromise, that possibly nobody was really happy about. that's how the compromise works, in many cases. :shrug:

[michelej1]

I understand the argument to the contrary,

No one is making an argument to the contrary. I think Stevie DID have a say in how her songs came out. No one kept her from mixing the songs the way she wanted. There's no evidence that Lindsey kept her from having an engineer of her choosing on her songs. Lindsey did not ban Chris Lord-Alge.

If the argument is that she just got tired of fighting with Lindsey, then why doesn't she also get too tired of complaining about him too?

You know, everyone accepts that Lindsey is difficult. He even calls himself a "troublemaker" but the process of working within a band is always going to be harder than working solo. It's harder for Lindsey too. Of course, it's easier to work with Dave Stewart on a solo album, but that's because Dave knows it's not his album. If he was working with Annie, Stevie and himself on an album belonging to the three of them, I doubt Stevie would have had as much fun, fun, fun with him.

Bands require compromise. Compromise is tough and stressful and comes after toil and arguments. Stevie is not the only one who feels picked on or unheard. Yes, I can understand her not wanting to go through the process again, but I don't buy its because she was treated so very unfairly during the SYW production.

Michele

[michelej1]

Very possible, but also an assumption. (Not taking you to task for that -- many of the things I've stated are assumptions, too.)


When she says she doesn't like the music or the songs on SYW, without a qualifier, that statement would encompass ALL of the music and songs. To say that maybe she didn't mean her songs is reading something into her statement that is not there on its face.

It's like if she said, "Oh, I don't like meat." And you came back and said, "But she could have meant she doesn't like pork." Well, I guess she could have meant she only hates pork, but that's not what she said.

Michele

[shackin'up]

"We're both really selfish, and it's like, 'No, I want it to be this way!' It's like you have two serious bulls in a pen, and we argue all the time. There's continual trauma. But does it make for incredible works of music? Yeah, it does."

As I've said, I think she just doesn't want to fight and argue anymore.

So, if she doesn't want to fight anymore... In your Logic you aim for here, she basicly says she doesn't want incredible works of music anymore....

Well, then Fck off. I want incredible works of music.

[olive]

Seriously. They are all approaching their 70's and are millionaires .... What are they going to write about ... Life struggles.. New love / romance., future hopes and dreams.... (I would think by now Stevie has stopped writing about Lindsey.)

[elle]

Seriously. They are all approaching their 70's and are millionaires .... What are they going to write about ... Life struggles.. New love / romance., future hopes and dreams.... (I would think by now Stevie has stopped writing about Lindsey.)

so is Bruce. or Kris Kristofferson. or Richard Thompson. so was Johnny Cash. people can write and record great and interesting songs at any age.

[michelej1]

Seriously. They are all approaching their 70's and are millionaires .... What are they going to write about ... Life struggles.. New love / romance., future hopes and dreams.... (I would think by now Stevie has stopped writing about Lindsey.)

The older you get, the more you've lost. The more endings there've been. I mean, even if there's no big tragedy in your life, the passage of time and life creates experience, longing and learning that I think anyone can write about.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

there's an interview somewhere where SN said after SYW how when her songs don't sound the way she envisioned them, it feels like they are not her songs anymore, and she's not happy about them anymore.



I believe she says this in the Destiny Rules documentary.

[nicole21290]

I believe she says this in the Destiny Rules documentary.

During the discussions about who was to mix the songs, I think, wasn't it? Would have to watch it again and I could very easily be wrong but that's what my memory is telling me. So again, not about Lindsey's production, necessarily.

[ironman_01701]

The older you get, the more you've lost. The more endings there've been. I mean, even if there's no big tragedy in your life, the passage of time and life creates experience, longing and learning that I think anyone can write about.

Michele

Why time flies when you get older:angel:

The older you are, the significant of a year becomes less.

Your memory and age is just a percentage of a year.

When you are 5 years old, one year is 20% of your memory (the span of time becomes longer and less significant for the here and now).

When your 50 years old, one year is 2% of your memory (the span of time becomes shorter and more significant for the here and now).

When your 65 years old, one year is 1.53% of your memory (the span of time becomes even shorter and more significant for the here and now).

Age, if explained in terms of percentage of your memory of one year of time becomes less significant. That's why time flies when you get older.

[BlueDenimLamp]

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r663/Nicksiannation/qq_zpsfd566e70.png

If all Fleetwood Mac are working on right now are some demos (likely CM or LB demos) then Stevie's not missing out on much...

[TsnFan4Ever]

I hope Stevie is writing some great songs for this LP and most likely is working on her contributions but can understand why she's not in the studio with them right now. She's often been shut out of the process and just kept on the sidelines waiting for her turn to add her vocal tracks when she has recorded with FM--which has led to much of her frustration with the group. After her great experience with IYD, she knows recording can be different and may not want to give up her creative control over her songs.

It also may not be the best thing for the group's cohesiveness to be spending time together in that way because it may bring back bad memories of their experiences during earlier recordings (e.g., "Rumours" and "Tusk") and many disagreements that occurred. Right now Stevie and LIndsey are getting along really well for the first time since they were in BN. Stevie may want to keep that going and decrease any chance of conflict before their tour so that everything stays on an even keel so that they have a great time with Christine back in the band. (Let's not forget that this band has the interpersonal chemistry and history that can become volatile, especially when recording).

I really hope they take advantage of this popularity wave and drop a CD quickly, too, with wonderful songs from all of them, before the tour.

[elle]

I really hope they take advantage of this popularity wave and drop a CD quickly, too, with wonderful songs from all of them, before the tour.

:thumbsup:

[BlueDenimLamp]

I hope Stevie is writing some great songs for this LP and most likely is working on her contributions but can understand why she's not in the studio with them right now. She's often been shut out of the process and just kept on the sidelines waiting for her turn to add her vocal tracks when she has recorded with FM--which has led to much of her frustration with the group. After her great experience with IYD, she knows recording can be different and may not want to give up her creative control over her songs.

It also may not be the best thing for the group's cohesiveness to be spending time together in that way because it may bring back bad memories of their experiences during earlier recordings (e.g., "Rumours" and "Tusk") and many disagreements that occurred. Right now Stevie and LIndsey are getting along really well for the first time since they were in BN. Stevie may want to keep that going and decrease any chance of conflict before their tour so that everything stays on an even keel so that they have a great time with Christine back in the band. (Let's not forget that this band has the interpersonal chemistry and history that can become volatile, especially when recording).

I really hope they take advantage of this popularity wave and drop a CD quickly, too, with wonderful songs from all of them, before the tour.

From the 3/27/14 Rolling Stone article...

"The group spent time in mid-March working on new songs, though they don't plan on releasing anything until after the world tour. They have yet to sketch out an exact setlist, though Buckingham has a good idea of what they'll play. "It won't be too hard to figure out," he says. "Stevie and I both have songs we pretty much have to play. When you add in Christine's hits, you pretty much have a set, though that's not to say there won't be a few little surprises around the edges."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/fleetwood-mac-announce-reunion-tour-dates-with-christine-mcvie-20140327#ixzz2ymMgScYD

[elle]

"The group spent time in mid-March working on new songs, though they don't plan on releasing anything until after the world tour.

i'm trying really hard to forget that quote ever existed. you are depressing me. :distress:

yes, after this tour and another and another....... it's been since "right after Unleashed". at this rate, probably never gonna happen.

we'll just have one after another more and more and more and more and more expensive tours...... i used to justify that they couldn't release an album because one of 2 songwriters not being on board. but now when Christine is on board, they have at least 2 songwriters (same as they did for SYW), and i don't see any reason for them not to release whatever songs they have done ASAP. before or at the start of the tour. not in 2015, or maybe 2016 or maybe 2017..............


it's 2014, we all had these very similar discussions at the start of 2010. waiting for the album then.

[TsnFan4Ever]

Yes, I so agree with you! Patience may be a virtue but this is getting ridiculous. And, although I hate to say this because I'm getting older too, I don't know that there is going to be that large a base for a release from 70- year old rock musicians. If they don't release something now when interest in FM is at its peak in many years, they will lose this window of opportunity and their sales will suffer. From a marketing perspective, this makes no sense!

[mitzo]

Sometimes I snap into the realization that I am a fan of a group which has not released a studio album in 27 years. Even if you count SYW it is 11 years. Funny how with a total lack of new music it all starts to fade away....

[BlueDenimLamp]

If Stevie only wants to be a part of the "Touring band" then the other 3 or 4 members need to accept that and get over it. Continuing to use Stevie as an excuse for the reason that there is no new music yet is getting old...If FM really wants to put out new music then do so WITHOUT HER...

[BLY]

Yes, I so agree with you! Patience may be a virtue but this is getting ridiculous. And, although I hate to say this because I'm getting older too, I don't know that there is going to be that large a base for a release from 70- year old rock musicians. If they don't release something now when interest in FM is at its peak in many years, they will lose this window of opportunity and their sales will suffer. From a marketing perspective, this makes no sense!


That's why this album has to be released before the tour. I still think it will. We are thinking (as stated above) these rockers are in their late sixties/seventies let's stop pretending like there is "years ahead" for tours and albums from this fab 5.

[MikeVielhaber]

i'm trying really hard to forget that quote ever existed. you are depressing me. :distress:

yes, after this tour and another and another....... it's been since "right after Unleashed". at this rate, probably never gonna happen.

we'll just have one after another more and more and more and more and more expensive tours...... i used to justify that they couldn't release an album because one of 2 songwriters not being on board. but now when Christine is on board, they have at least 2 songwriters (same as they did for SYW), and i don't see any reason for them not to release whatever songs they have done ASAP. before or at the start of the tour. not in 2015, or maybe 2016 or maybe 2017..............


it's 2014, we all had these very similar discussions at the start of 2010. waiting for the album then.

But they never entered the studio to work on an album in 2010 and they never said they were going to work on an album. They always said, mainly Lindsey, that they hoped that would happen. So this is different. They aren't saying "I hope we do an album"....they're saying "we're working on an album".

[MikeVielhaber]

That's why this album has to be released before the tour. I still think it will. We are thinking (as stated above) these rockers are in their late sixties/seventies let's stop pretending like there is "years ahead" for tours and albums from this fab 5.

They definitely are not planning for this to be a final tour. They expect to do more after this so of all the reasons they should release an album now age isn't one, at least from their perspective. I personally that they should do it now and age is a good reason, but they aren't looking at this as the end of anything so I don't think that's a motivation for them. And I don't think after all the tour announcements that they're just going to slip in an album to go along with it. We'd already know about it if that were in the plans. They'd be more definitive about their recordings.

[MikeVielhaber]

Yes, I so agree with you! Patience may be a virtue but this is getting ridiculous. And, although I hate to say this because I'm getting older too, I don't know that there is going to be that large a base for a release from 70- year old rock musicians. If they don't release something now when interest in FM is at its peak in many years, they will lose this window of opportunity and their sales will suffer. From a marketing perspective, this makes no sense!

Yes, I agree if their goal is to optimize album sales now is the time. But maybe that's not a priority to them....I don't know. I think it definitely is for Stevie. She's shown that she's very commercial minded.

[BlueDenimLamp]

I think whatever they are working on it will be Fleetwood Mac's "Farewell Album" and it will be released shortly before Fleetwood Mac's big "Farewell tour"...

[elle]

If Stevie only wants to be a part of the "Touring band" then the other 3 or 4 members need to accept that and get over it. Continuing to use Stevie as an excuse for the reason that there is no new music yet is getting old...If FM really wants to put out new music then do so WITHOUT HER...

exactly! :thumbsup:

[brickney723]

Lindsey would never be involved in an FM project without Stevie. Period. Working with her is what it's all about for him.

[secondhandchain]

This is why Stevie should be in the studio EVEN if they are not working on her songs.

1. 'The Chain'
"The Chain" is the only song on Rumours that the band actually wrote as a group. "It basically came out of a jam," said Mick Fleetwood. "Originally, we had no words to it. And it really only became a song when Stevie wrote some. She walked in one day and said, 'I've written some words that might be good for that thing you were doing in the studio the other day.' So it was put together. Lindsey arranged and made a song out of all the bits and pieces that we were putting down onto tape." They should have joined forces more often, since the end result is absolutely stunning. It was never a single, though radio has embraced it and it's proven to be one of their most enduring works.

[MikeVielhaber]

Lindsey would never be involved in an FM project without Stevie. Period. Working with her is what it's all about for him.

She was minimally involved with the EP and she's not involved yet with this and who knows to what extent she will be. It can't be about working with Stevie for him.

[jbrownsjr]

At least ticket prices will drop like a rock...I can see it now ...The "Men Of Mac featuring Christine McVie" coming to a steak house near you, advance ticket holders will receive a free buffet coupon...

2 for 1!;)

[David]

They definitely are not planning for this to be a final tour. They expect to do more after this so of all the reasons they should release an album now age isn't one, at least from their perspective. I personally that they should do it now and age is a good reason, but they aren't looking at this as the end of anything so I don't think that's a motivation for them. And I don't think after all the tour announcements that they're just going to slip in an album to go along with it. Fleetwood Mac is looking at this whole thing too narrowly. They should consider skipping the whole studio scene entirely—they don't seem to be all on board with studio work—and instead write and perform their new songs on the road. The performances can be recorded and released to iTunes or Google Play. If they do that, they combine the best of both worlds: They continue to rake it in doing the classic hits and they create some new music (so they don't all go nuts playing "Rhiannon" three hundred times a year).

Think "Fireflies," "Farmer's Daughter," "Bleed to Love Her," "My Little Demon," "Sweet Girl"—recorded live, polished, released!

[michelej1]

She was minimally involved with the EP and she's not involved yet with this and who knows to what extent she will be. It can't be about working with Stevie for him.

Yes, I think that's why he told FM to go away for 3 years while he worked on his solo stuff after the SYW tour. After the solo work, it was time to grease the machinery again, as he said.

"Mick will usually be in cahoots with whatever is going on with Stevie," Buckingham says. "It's not about anything other than wanting to grease the machinery. They were saying next time we tour, we're going to move the mikes closer together and you're going to look in Stevie's eyes. I didn't say anything. Other than we did this play, I suppose we can do that play, too.

"A couple of months ago I went over there and she hands me a set list of what we're going to do a year and a half from now. So that's what going on now -- everyone wants to get out there at some point. The question is under what terms, or are there any terms. There seems to be a certain amount of political agendas to sort out. But, you know, whatever."


The thing is, this time around he can get both at the same time. An album and a tour with all 5 of them will be the best of both worlds. Not for the fans, of course. I want an album with all of them very badly. But if that's not possible, then a tour with all 5 and an album with 4, which will generate more sales under the Fleetwood Mac banner than either Lindsey or Christine could generate alone, should be next up on his list.

Two years of touring will give them all income and new memories to add to their 40 year history. An album, in addition to the tour, could give both Lindsey and Christine a sense of creative achievement. They used each other often enough on solo albums. Lindsey has talked about the nasal quality of his and Stevie's voices. They're very similar, while Christine's voice provides a more marked contrast to his. Why not make an album featuring the two of them? It's not a first preference, but it's highly favored over nothing.

The thing is, this is not 1987. They needed her for Tango. Today, they need Stevie for a tour, but having her for an album is not going to sell records any more. An album with Lindsey and Christine might not go gold, but there's no guarantee that an album with Stevie would have gotten to gold either at this stage of the game. If they still have delusions of ruling the charts with new music, they need to let them go. There's no reason to hold out hoping for that.

Stevie is signed on to tour for this year. Get her signed up for more US and overseas dates for next year and once she's contracted for that, if she doesn't want to do an album, let it go. Having her there reluctantly is not going to be good for anyone and it will generate bad feelings that will take 10 years to get over and -- they may not have 10 more years.

As Lindsey said, a tour greases the machinery and they all still want the money. They can have that and an album too, even if it's not quite the Fleetwood Mac album fans envisioned when they first heard Christine was returning.

Michele

[secondhandchain]

Fleetwood Mac is looking at this whole thing too narrowly. They should consider skipping the whole studio scene entirely—they don't seem to be all on board with studio work—and instead write and perform their new songs on the road. The performances can be recorded and released to iTunes or Google Play. If they do that, they combine the best of both worlds: They continue to rake it in doing the classic hits and they create some new music (so they don't all go nuts playing "Rhiannon" three hundred times a year).

Think "Fireflies," "Farmer's Daughter," "Bleed to Love Her," "My Little Demon," "Sweet Girl"—recorded live, polished, released!]]

If you think those songs were "live" you got another thing coming. I heard many a prerecorded or overdubbed part on those songs. There is NO way in hell Lindsey got that guitar sound on Bleed to love her live. Also if you listen to the Dance you can hear multiple track of Stevie singing on certain songs. Those songs were way sweetened in the studio.

[David]

]]

If you think those songs were "live" you got another thing coming. I heard many a prerecorded or overdubbed part on those songs. There is NO way in hell Lindsey got that guitar sound on Bleed to love her live. Also if you listen to the Dance you can hear multiple track of Stevie singing on certain songs. Those songs were way sweetened in the studio.Of course I know. The point is, those songs were all done onstage as the base of the song. The band didn't write or record those basic tracks in a studio. I'm thinking that these five guys just don't want to go into a studio together, but they don't seem to mind going on tour. Go on the road, write new on the road, play it live, add whatever you want to it afterward, and release it as new while you're still on the road.

As far as polishing a live track, you do not by any means need a big studio. You can do all the additional recording and mixing on the road.

[michelej1]

I believe she says this in the Destiny Rules documentary.

Yes she also said she liked her demos better in 2006. Saying your demos were better than the finished song doesn't indicate approval of the album production. She was very clear that she didn't like her SYW songs. I mean, except for just before and during the tour, she's been kind of upfront about her dislike of those songs.


"Do people really want to hear a whole other solo record, when you can get one or two songs for I-Tunes? I'm thinking about a way you could just put out a few songs once in a while, maybe four songs that you loved, instead of having to figure out 16 songs, many of which you might not love."

The singer could be making a backhanded reference to Say You Will, the 2003 Fleetwood Mac album that Nicks recorded without long-time ally and confidante Christine McVie, who left the band in 1998 in favour of a quiet life in London. Originally conceived as a Lindsey Buckingham solo project, Say You Will came to resemble two separate albums awkwardly squashed together, with nine songs apiece from Buckingham and Nicks alternating in strict succession.

"I'd be totally lying if I said that record is what I wanted, because it isn't," she says. "I argued with Lindsey all the way through it, and he argued with me. It wasn't very much fun, and I wasn't that pleased with the music. I felt my demos were better, which of course is easy to say, but I did. And what can I say? It wasn't a lot of fun."

Another thing she said though is that working for 9 months on just her songs, and not Lindsey's too, began to grate on everyone, Lindsey included. That seemed weird.

From that, I gathered that, at least a few years ago, the process of the band working on songs together seemed more palatable to her. When the focus is on her songs alone, that puts her stuff under an intense scrutiny, which may not be easy.

That's why working on all the band songs together is preferable. Yes, there are lots of times when the band won't need her around, but when you can alternate things and do her stuff in the morning and Lindsey's stuff in the afternoon and Christine's stuff the next day, maybe that eases the pressure. Just as tempers rise over one song, you can move to another one and ease the tension a little.

Michele

[michelej1]

and i don't see any reason for them not to release whatever songs they have done ASAP. before or at the start of the tour. not in 2015, or maybe 2016 or maybe 2017..............



And the way Christine saps his testosterone, he's basically going to need a new album in order to counteract her return. Otherwise, it's going to be all estrogen up there.

“I was in a really confident place. Whatever ‘Say You Will’ turned out to be, just having done a new studio album with the band was a great thing. And as much as we missed Christine, how that translated for me is that I was able to get up there and be a guy onstage. The testosterone level was high, which was great for me. I don’t know if Stevie was real happy with it, but that’s a whole other story.”

[shackin'up]

Yes she also said she liked her demos better in 2006. Saying your demos were better than the finished song doesn't indicate approval of the album production. She was very clear that she didn't like her SYW songs. I mean, except for just before and during the tour, she's been kind of upfront about her dislike of those songs.


Another thing she said though is that working for 9 months on just her songs, and not Lindsey's too, began to grate on everyone, Lindsey included. That seemed weird.

From that, I gathered that, at least a few years ago, the process of the band working on songs together seemed more palatable to her. When the focus is on her songs alone, that puts her stuff under an intense scrutiny, which may not be easy.

That's why working on all the band songs together is preferable. Yes, there are lots of times when the band won't need her around, but when you can alternate things and do her stuff in the morning and Lindsey's stuff in the afternoon and Christine's stuff the next day, maybe that eases the pressure. Just as tempers rise over one song, you can move to another one and ease the tension a little.

Michele

That's what I mean to say in my short, slightly frustrated, posts. I don't like her accusations about not being happy with how her songs turned out on SYW. She's part of that endproduct. If she's not, she has NOTHING to say about it. She has to be there to be part of a bandproduct. Otherwise, she will never be satisfied in hindsight, simply because sales are against her (too high?) expectations. She still is happy about IYD. Even if it didn't sell what she envisioned. Why? Because she was constantly part of the process, it's her album. She just needs to be there. Christine's there, so the SYWprocess is NOT being copied. Be a band for christ sake.

[jbrownsjr]

Lindsey would never be involved in an FM project without Stevie. Period. Working with her is what it's all about for him.

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I don't think they really like working with each other these days.

[BlueDenimLamp]

That's what I mean to say in my short, slightly frustrated, posts. I don't like her accusations about not being happy with how her songs turned out on SYW. She's part of that endproduct. If she's not, she has NOTHING to say about it. She has to be there to be part of a bandproduct. Otherwise, she will never be satisfied in hindsight, simply because sales are against her (too high?) expectations. She still is happy about IYD. Even if it didn't sell what she envisioned. Why? Because she was constantly part of the process, it's her album. She just needs to be there. Christine's there, so the SYWprocess is NOT being copied. Be a band for christ sake.

Christine's return won't make one bit of difference in the way Lindsey treats Stevie and or her songs in the studio...Maybe instead of blaming Stevie for FM's troubles you should be blaming Lindsey and his Ayatollah control freak king **** producer attitude...Dave Stewart didn't wear his control freak hat to Stevie's house in fact he respected and embraced Stevie and her songs and did everything he could to get Stevie's songs the way SHE wanted them (and we all know how happy Stevie is with the end result) whereas Lindsey will fight and argue and do everything he can to get Stevie's songs/things the way HE not Stevie want's them... See the difference here???
Fleetwood Mac could have a great "Farewell album" if Lindsey would just loose the attitude...

[BlueDenimLamp]

Be a band for christ sake.

FM stopped being a band a long time ago...Yes they have made attempts at new music but is it really anything more than Lindsey wanting to wear the "Big Producer" hat again???You have to give them credit though because FM is one of the best traveling oldies shows around... :nod::laugh:

[shackin'up]

Christine's return won't make one bit of difference in the way Lindsey treats Stevie and or her songs in the studio...Maybe instead of blaming Stevie for FM's troubles you should be blaming Lindsey and his Ayatollah control freak king s**t producer attitude...Dave Stewart didn't wear his control freak hat to Stevie's house in fact he respected and embraced Stevie and her songs and did everything he could to get Stevie's songs the way she wanted them (and we all know how happy Stevie is with the end result) whereas Lindsey will fight and argue and do everything he can to get Stevie's songs the way HE not Stevie want's them... See the difference here???
Fleetwood Mac could have a great "Farewell album" if Lindsey would just loose the attitude...

Ah. Stuff it. What a crap remark. If he was such a ayatollah, Christine would not say that demo-ing in march was so in great chemistry. And IYD is a generic faceless result. We are not Talking about a Nicks Solo album here, but a FM album. That needs Lindsey! but you want a Nicks solo album.

If they want a fleetwood mac album, make one, with all 5 of them.Whatever it may cost in personal tension. Or back off.

Like Christine said recently: he can be a controlfreak, but That's his job. They all know that. I'm sure he mellowed. Last time was frikken twelve years ago. He did three solo albums in between. He shows in everything that his mindset changed. If you don't see that, you don't want to.

Btw, I don't blame anybody. I just don't understand why you want to ge a fivepiece again and then back out on 5 piece recording. I blame all 5 that she's not there.

[nicole21290]

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I don't think they really like working with each other these days.

Onstage or just in the studio? Because it would be easy to find a hundred or so photos to disprove the former and show how happy they were. The last few tours Lindsey's specifically talked about his vested interest in using the tour to build and strengthen his relationship with Stevie. In regards to the studio, they certainly seemed to enjoy it just fine for their previous two experiences (EP and IYD) - the former being a time where they spent four days on Lindsey's home turf, got the work done and spent much time laughing, crying and reminiscing, where the latter apparently, according to them, brought them closer together than they'd been for over 30 years. Granted, these were shorter experiences and so different but certainly, not like working together at all? I think there's been some hesitance, particularly on Stevie's end, because she recognises the potential damage that can be done to their relationship when they're cooped up working together for long. It happens to the best of people and they have a particular danger because of their history and their own characters/personalities. I remain amused by Stevie talking about the SA experience as teaching her that they could work together and not be so 'Lindsey and Stevie', lol. It's a balancing act.

[jbrownsjr]

Onstage or just in the studio? Because it would be easy to find a hundred or so photos to disprove the former and show how happy they were. The last few tours Lindsey's specifically talked about his vested interest in using the tour to build and strengthen his relationship with Stevie. In regards to the studio, they certainly seemed to enjoy it just fine for their previous two experiences (EP and IYD) - the former being a time where they spent four days on Lindsey's home turf, got the work done and spent much time laughing, crying and reminiscing, where the latter apparently, according to them, brought them closer together than they'd been for over 30 years. Granted, these were shorter experiences and so different but certainly, not like working together at all? I think there's been some hesitance, particularly on Stevie's end, because she recognises the potential damage that can be done to their relationship when they're cooped up working together for long. It happens to the best of people and they have a particular danger because of their history and their own characters/personalities. I remain amused by Stevie talking about the SA experience as teaching her that they could work together and not be so 'Lindsey and Stevie', lol. It's a balancing act.

Talking about more in the studio. But the photos and quotes don't convince me either, as I believe it's quite the act. I don't see the love that you do. Having said that, I wish they were a little more invested in each other. (Especially musically) But again, I respectfully disagree with the notion that these two want to be around each other more than they have to.

[sue]

Its a job, and she'll have to go to the office sooner or later.
Admittedly a very well paid job, that brings great pleasure to many millions of us.

[jbrownsjr]

Its a job, and she'll have to go to the office sooner or later.
Admittedly a very well paid job, that brings great pleasure to many millions of us.

Sue, imagine getting paid every 2 weeks with that paycheck! :p

[sue]

The imaginations good but not that good !!!!
Where would I spend it mmmmm drugs, sex, and rock and roll.
(Oh no they did that already )

[brickney723]

Onstage or just in the studio? Because it would be easy to find a hundred or so photos to disprove the former and show how happy they were. The last few tours Lindsey's specifically talked about his vested interest in using the tour to build and strengthen his relationship with Stevie. In regards to the studio, they certainly seemed to enjoy it just fine for their previous two experiences (EP and IYD) - the former being a time where they spent four days on Lindsey's home turf, got the work done and spent much time laughing, crying and reminiscing, where the latter apparently, according to them, brought them closer together than they'd been for over 30 years. Granted, these were shorter experiences and so different but certainly, not like working together at all? I think there's been some hesitance, particularly on Stevie's end, because she recognises the potential damage that can be done to their relationship when they're cooped up working together for long. It happens to the best of people and they have a particular danger because of their history and their own characters/personalities. I remain amused by Stevie talking about the SA experience as teaching her that they could work together and not be so 'Lindsey and Stevie', lol. It's a balancing act.

THIS. You'd have to believe that almost everything that comes out of Lindsey's mouth is a lie not to believe that one of his primary motivations is spending time/working with her. He's the one that who had talked about what it would mean to him to get back to doing something along the lines of what they had before FM, about how much he would love building songs with her from the ground-up, about how great it would be doing something with just the two of them- promoting BN, etc. Not to mention- they've got a few chapters, etc etc to learn.. to discover.. about each other! I agree, SHE is hesitant to go into the studio with him. She's afraid to screw with this hard-won truce she's finally got going with him.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Its a job, and she'll have to go to the office sooner or later.
Admittedly a very well paid job, that brings great pleasure to many millions of us.

The touring paycheck is huge compared to the peanuts she would make being on a new FM record so she may be at the point where she's thinking the effort/stress of recording with FM (like it has been in the past) just isn't worth the return... It's not like FM will do anything if she doesn't show up at the office...

[MikeVielhaber]

THIS. You'd have to believe that almost everything that comes out of Lindsey's mouth is a lie not to believe that one of his primary motivations is spending time/working with her. He's the one that who had talked about what it would mean to him to get back to doing something along the lines of what they had before FM, about how much he would love building songs with her from the ground-up, about how great it would be doing something with just the two of them- promoting BN, etc. Not to mention- they've got a few chapters, etc etc to learn.. to discover.. about each other! I agree, SHE is hesitant to go into the studio with him. She's afraid to screw with this hard-won truce she's finally got going with him.

Maybe if we're talking live, but in the studio Lindsey just wants to make music. That's why he recorded all his songs without Stevie and he's currently working on Christine's songs without Stevie. It can't be a "primary" motivation when he can't have realistic expectations that she's going to be heavily involved in the process. Lindsey is an artist who needs to make music. That's his motivation. Stevie apparently could take it or leave it.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Ah. Stuff it. What a crap remark. If he was such a ayatollah, Christine would not say that demo-ing in march was so in great chemistry. And IYD is a generic faceless result. We are not Talking about a Nicks Solo album here, but a FM album. That needs Lindsey! but you want a Nicks solo album.

If they want a fleetwood mac album, make one, with all 5 of them.Whatever it may cost in personal tension. Or back off.

Like Christine said recently: he can be a controlfreak, but That's his job. They all know that. I'm sure he mellowed. Last time was frikken twelve years ago. He did three solo albums in between. He shows in everything that his mindset changed. If you don't see that, you don't want to.

Btw, I don't blame anybody. I just don't understand why you want to ge a fivepiece again and then back out on 5 piece recording. I blame all 5 that she's not there.

You're missing the point...All Lindsey/the band has to do is record a couple of songs Stevie's way and the new FM album could be done...Lindsey gets to have his songs the way he wants them and I would bet the farm that LB is on his best studio behavior ever and doing everything in his power to make sure things are the way CM is asking him on her songs right now...So why can't Stevie get the same with her songs??? I think that's all she want's...Don't you think that a FM record where all are having a great time will be better than a record where they (Stevie) were miserable during the recording process???

[brickney723]

Maybe if we're talking live, but in the studio Lindsey just wants to make music. That's why he recorded all his songs without Stevie and he's currently working on Christine's songs without Stevie. It can't be a "primary" motivation when he can't have realistic expectations that she's going to be heavily involved in the process. Lindsey is an artist who needs to make music. That's his motivation. Stevie apparently could take it or leave it.

Within the context of FM, I think Lindsey is always crossing his fingers and hoping for more from her, tbh.. he can't always get what he wants- I think this is what he means by it still being a political situation getting everyone on the same page. I'm just saying in the future, if she was truly done with Fleetwood Mac, I think he would be too. He'd be back to solo work.

[michelej1]

You're missing the point...All Lindsey/the band has to do is record a couple of songs Stevie's way and the new FM album could be done...Lindsey gets to have his songs the way he wants them and I would bet the farm that LB is on his best studio behavior ever and doing everything in his power to make sure things are the way CM is asking him on her songs right now...

I doubt that, because that's not what Christine wants or needs on her songs. I think she likes the back and forth that they have together, the collaboration.

If Stevie doesn't want to work with Lindsey she doesn't have to. They don't get along. He doesn't have to be painted as a bully to justify her not wanting to make music with him.

Michele

[michelej1]

Having said that, I wish they were a little more invested in each other. (Especially musically) But again, I respectfully disagree with the notion that these two want to be around each other more than they have to.

Yes, I think what Lindsey wanted was to keep making new music that they could perform as FM and just to get her in the studio for that purpose, so the lucrative touring that they all want wouldn't remain quite the nostalgia act it has become.

Michele

[BLY]

There is more drama on this thread then there is currently going on with the band. It's all a great set up to their swan song. The last chapter in a great story.

[michelej1]

There is more drama on this thread then there is currently going on with the band. It's all a great set up their swan song. The last chapter in a great story.

I really doubt that they're ready for their swan songs for 5 more years yet.

Michele

[BLY]

I really doubt that they're ready for their swan songs for 5 more years yet.

Michele


I hope your right...... But I do believe this is their last album and We may see a tour for another year.

[michelej1]

I hope your right...... But I do believe this is their last album and We may see a tour for another year.

From the way they talk, they expect to tour through 2015, but that doesn't appear to be the last thing on their agenda. I would expect if health allows that they would be trying to pull something else together for 2018 and then that's when all the farewell talk would come in.

Michele

[BlueDenimLamp]

From the way they talk, they expect to tour through 2015, but that doesn't appear to be the last thing on their agenda. I would expect if health allows that they would be trying to pull something else together for 2018 and then that's when all the farewell talk would come in.

Michele

I don't wish any Ill will on the band but waiting until 2018 for the farewell tour is kind of risky...In the summer of 2018 will a 75 year old Christine be touring? Stevie's has been wearing the Frankenboks again what kind of shape will her feet be in by 2018? And I'm guessing that the farewell tour will be a MASSIVE undertaking so maybe it should happen sooner rather than later...

[BLY]

From the way they talk, they expect to tour through 2015, but that doesn't appear to be the last thing on their agenda. I would expect if health allows that they would be trying to pull something else together for 2018 and then that's when all the farewell talk would come in.

Michele


I hope health allows the continuation of the tour and anything else.

[sorcerer999]

Lindsey would never be involved in an FM project without Stevie. Period. Working with her is what it's all about for him.

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I don't think they really like working with each other these days.

While I disagree with the statement that "working with her is what it's all about for him" (because in my opinion he's always been about the quality of the music with the band as a whole ~ his own songs most of all), I also disagree with the statement that "they don't really like working with each other these days."

Stevie would never have asked Linds to play (and sing harmony) on "Soldier's Angel" and he would never have agreed to do it if the above statement were true.

[jbrownsjr]

While I disagree with the statement that "working with her is what it's all about for him" (because in my opinion he's always been about the quality of the music with the band as a whole ~ his own songs most of all), I also disagree with the statement that "they don't really like working with each other these days."

Stevie would never have asked Linds to play (and sing harmony) on "Soldier's Angel" and he would never have agreed to do it if the above statement were true.

I think that their art sometimes calls for certain collaborations yes, but I just don't get a happy vibe from them. I honestly hope I'm wrong. I want a well divided FMac album. And..............I would like them to release a remaster of B/N.

[sorcerer999]

I want a well divided FMac album. And..............I would like them to release a remaster of B/N.

AMEN!!! :)

[jbrownsjr]

AMEN!!! :)

It's so ridiculous they haven't. So many opportunities. It's almost as ridiculous as Christine's 15 year vacation. She could have taken 10 years like LB. lol

[nicole21290]

Stevie would never have asked Linds to play (and sing harmony) on "Soldier's Angel" and he would never have agreed to do it if the above statement were true.

It wasn't even that he responded to her request to work with him for two days - he was already hanging around. He did the same with TISL - he was there on at least one other occasion when it had nothing to do with working that we know of. One of the reasons she (and probably him) like SA so much is the callback to Buckingham Nicks, something they hold very dear to them. I think Stevie is wary of a longer term recording process with him but those few days here and there? I think they love/d it.

"So Lindsey came in and played guitar. It's just Lindsey and me. It's very Buckingham Nicks and I think that it's going to be a very serious and important song to the world and I think it's a very serious and important song for Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks because it sounds like Buckingham Nicks. Because it is."

"We recorded it live and did some harmonies, and then he did some little lead guitar things and it was perfect," Nicks says. "There's no other players, just me and him. Not only did we create something that's probably as Buckingham Nicks as we have been since 1973, but... I think that song really brought Lindsey and I back together. He said to me as he was leaving on that second day, 'I feel like we're closer than we've been in 30 years.' It certainly opens a lot of doors."

Lindsey agreed on the closeness issue, saying at one point it was probably the closest they've been since the early seventies, if I recall correctly.

Music has the ability to harm and injure the relationship, yes, but done right? It's a healer.

But they both feel they’re turned a corner with the duet ‘Soldier’s Angel’ off her In Your Dreams album, released yesterday. Buckingham says, “You don’t want things to end in any other than a positive and unified way. So I was quite happy to see that come about.” ... Could this lead to another Buckingham Nicks album? Eight years ago, Buckingham said he’d be up for it, and Stevie now says, “Maybe Lindsey and I will go off and rent a house in Wales and do a Buckingham Nicks album. I have no idea, but I do know the music will continue."

Two solitary days working together, my arse...

“I spent a lot of time with Stevie when she was making her solo album this last year and we spent a lot of really nice quality time…”

"I’ve spent a good deal of time with Stevie in the last year and we’re getting along, you know, as good or better than we’ve ever gotten along”

"You know, she has an album out as well and we spent a good deal of time together…”

"I knew Stevie was working on a solo album and I called up and I said, ‘Is there anything I can do?’ So I started going over there and hanging out, and we just had the best time. You know, I’ve known her since I was in high school. You would think that at this point in our lives together, the road we’ve been down, that there would be nothing left to figure out, nothing left to work out, nothing left to evolve, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I think it’s very sweet that there are still some chapters left for Stevie and me."

[michelej1]

It's so ridiculous they haven't. So many opportunities. It's almost as ridiculous as Christine's 15 year vacation. She could have taken 10 years like LB. lol

I wonder when Christine began feeling differently. By the time she went to Hawaii, I think she already knew she wanted back in, so the thought must have formed prior to that? It's too bad she didn't start telling people until 2013. If she had those feelings in 2011, something could have been done earlier.

Although I enjoyed the Live 2013 shows and I especially enjoyed seeing her in London -- which was extremely exciting because I thought was once in a lifetime -- I almost feel like the 2013 tour was a wasted one that has done nothing but gum up the works for future plans. What I mean is, I think last year's tour has weakened this one. And the EP -- I don't want those songs to be redone, but they could have been done better originally, if we'd known then what we know now.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

I wonder when Christine began feeling differently. By the time she went to Hawaii, I think she already knew she wanted back in, so the thought must have formed prior to that? It's too bad she didn't start telling people until 2013. If she had those feelings in 2011, something could have been done earlier.

Although I enjoyed the Live 2013 shows and I especially enjoyed seeing her in London -- which was extremely exciting because I thought was once in a lifetime -- I almost feel like the 2013 tour was a wasted one that has done nothing but gum up the works for future plans. What I mean is, I think last year's tour has weakened this one. And the EP -- I don't want those songs to be redone, but they could have been done better originally, if we'd known then what we know now.

Michele

I agree whole-heartedly.

[Phil]

Originally posted by Michelej1
And the EP -- I don't want those songs to be redone, but they could have been done better originally, if we'd known then what we know now.

I think "Sad Angel" and "It Takes Time" could be revisited for the album. I'm fond of them both as they are, but think improvements could be made, particularly with Christine on board.

I am nervous about Stevie's eventual contributions - her songwriting and vocal abilities continue to regress with time so I don't expect anything wondrous from her. That ship has sailed.

[MikeVielhaber]

I wonder when Christine began feeling differently. By the time she went to Hawaii, I think she already knew she wanted back in, so the thought must have formed prior to that? It's too bad she didn't start telling people until 2013. If she had those feelings in 2011, something could have been done earlier.

Although I enjoyed the Live 2013 shows and I especially enjoyed seeing her in London -- which was extremely exciting because I thought was once in a lifetime -- I almost feel like the 2013 tour was a wasted one that has done nothing but gum up the works for future plans. What I mean is, I think last year's tour has weakened this one. And the EP -- I don't want those songs to be redone, but they could have been done better originally, if we'd known then what we know now.

Michele

Yeah, she did say in one of the recent interviews that she'd gotten the idea that she might want to come back about 2 years ago. Now 2 years from when exactly, I'm not sure.

[FM77]

From the way they talk, they expect to tour through 2015, but that doesn't appear to be the last thing on their agenda. I would expect if health allows that they would be trying to pull something else together for 2018 and then that's when all the farewell talk would come in.

Michele

I can promise you that if Stevie is dragging her feet in the studio, she isn't planning 4 years ahead with FM. No way, no how.

[Aussie W/Heart]

I think unwanted pressure of perhaps doing a new album with F/M plus ANOTHER USA tour later in the year, then the big world tour back to back is NOT what Stevie had in mind at the end of their resent tour, she most probably wanted to do more solo work or have a well earned break... But then Christine decided to come back out of the blue, therefore her plans went out the window. Not wanting to let Christine and her band mates down, we all know how much she missed Christine, but on the other hand im sure she thinks timing is all wrong... but Stevie is a trooper and will solider on whether she likes it all not, for the bands sake and to keep the peace within the band..

[BlueDenimLamp]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Off to Nashville, Tennessee on Saturday with Waddy Wachtel I wonder why ;) <a href="http://t.co/xVTRV2rwPU">http://t.co/xVTRV2rwPU</a></p>&mdash; Dave Stewart (@DaveStewart) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaveStewart/statuses/457046180313038848">April 18, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Dave & Waddy in Nashville??? I'll be surprised if Stevie's not there as well...

[louielouie2000]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Off to Nashville, Tennessee on Saturday with Waddy Wachtel
I wonder why ;) <a href="http://t.co/xVTRV2rwPU">http://t.co/xVTRV2rwPU</a></p>&mdash; Dave Stewart (@DaveStewart) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaveStewart/statuses/457046180313038848">April 18, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Dave & Waddy in Nashville??? I'll be surprised if Stevie's not there as well...

This could certainly be Stevie crafting demos with those two so she can have something to bring into Fleetwood Mac. Makes perfect sense- the band is working out Christine's songs right now, and getting her keyboard chops back up to snuff. So Stevie has some time to flesh out some new material to bring into the band when they're ready for her. Doing so in Nashville may seem a bit odd at first glance, but that's where she did all the dubbing & rerecording for her Soundstage DVD/CD. Plus, maybe she wants out of LA while Fleetwood Mac is working there, so she can do her own thing undisturbed.

[JohnL]

Christine's return won't make one bit of difference in the way Lindsey treats Stevie and or her songs in the studio...Maybe instead of blaming Stevie for FM's troubles you should be blaming Lindsey and his Ayatollah control freak king **** producer attitude...Dave Stewart didn't wear his control freak hat to Stevie's house in fact he respected and embraced Stevie and her songs and did everything he could to get Stevie's songs the way SHE wanted them (and we all know how happy Stevie is with the end result) whereas Lindsey will fight and argue and do everything he can to get Stevie's songs/things the way HE not Stevie want's them... See the difference here???
Fleetwood Mac could have a great "Farewell album" if Lindsey would just loose the attitude...

I think you are my new best friend. Lindsey is the true DIVA in the band. I sure hope that if they do make a new album that he is NOT producer. They need some new input and less 5 minute guitar solos. Just my opinion....

[bethelblues]

I agree. I haven't been a fan of many of Lindsey's production decisions on the EP or on Say You Will. Why not bring Pharrell onboard?

[secret love]

I agree. I haven't been a fan of many of Lindsey's production decisions on the EP or on Say You Will. Why not bring Pharrell onboard?
I'll presume that's a joke. Pharrell and Fleetwood Mac together - that's just wrong and it wouldn't work.

[BlueDenimLamp]

This could certainly be Stevie crafting demos with those two so she can have something to bring into Fleetwood Mac. Makes perfect sense- the band is working out Christine's songs right now, and getting her keyboard chops back up to snuff. So Stevie has some time to flesh out some new material to bring into the band when they're ready for her. Doing so in Nashville may seem a bit odd at first glance, but that's where she did all the dubbing & rerecording for her Soundstage DVD/CD. Plus, maybe she wants out of LA while Fleetwood Mac is working there, so she can do her own thing undisturbed.

Dave likes to record in Nashville and his last 3 albums were recorded there...
Whether you like him or not Dave is a workhorse constantly working on numerous projects for other artists and yet he still manages to put out an album of his own every year...No telling what Waddy & Dave are doing but one thing is for sure Dave tweets about everything we will just have to wait and see...

[shackin'up]

I think you are my new best friend. Lindsey is the true DIVA in the band. I sure hope that if they do make a new album that he is NOT producer. They need some new input and less 5 minute guitar solos. Just my opinion....

There is only one 5 minute guitarsolo. It was there since day one. Only in the SYW tour there were two. So you are talking bull.

[elle]

I think you are my new best friend.

lol. you mean almost every other chiff on this board is your best friend. :laugh:

[BlueDenimLamp]

I agree. I haven't been a fan of many of Lindsey's production decisions on the EP or on Say You Will.

They need a producer that will bring the sound of their songs up to date...

[elle]

There is only one 5 minute guitarsolo. It was there since day one. Only in the SYW tour there were two. So you are talking bull.

i know. i can just laugh off the kinds of remarks like "LB is a diva in that band" anymore. yes, workhorse = diva, by anybody's definition. :angel:

the same as "the woman is a peacemaker, she'd do anything just to keep peace in the band". yes, going around in the media trashing your band members is done purely for the purpose of keeping peace. ;)

[BlueDenimLamp]

. Lindsey is the true DIVA in the band. I sure hope that if they do make a new album that he is NOT producer. They need some new input. Just my opinion....

What.. You say Lindsey is a diva...I never would have guessed...
Yes something other than the glossy over produced slick sound of records past would be nice...

[shackin'up]

What.. You say Lindsey is a diva...I never would have guessed...
Yes something other than the glossy over produced slick sound of records past would be nice...

:blob2::laugh::]:]:]:]:] I know the solution! Call Dave Stewart!

[secondhandchain]

All we really need from Stevie for this album is 3 good songs.

1) take "The Dealer" and record that with a "Gypsy" like ending. She can repeat "run away, yeah I would run away" while Lindsey comes up with some hooky guitar line and the band has some great backround harmonies.

2) a song about her Mom

3) a song about Christine returning

4) add backround vocals to the rest of the songs....voila your done~!

[BLY]

All we really need from Stevie for this album is 3 good songs.

1) take "The Dealer" and record that with a "Gypsy" like ending. She can repeat "run away, yeah I would run away" while Lindsey comes up with some hooky guitar line and the band has some great backround harmonies.

2) a song about her Mom

3) a song about Christine returning

4) add backround vocals to the rest of the songs....voila your done~!


Exactly!!!

[HelloMonster]

I would much rather listen to Lindsey's new songs than anything that a Stevie has done lately. You Can't Fix This is the only song from this decade that I enjoy, and even then, she sounds like she's mooing.

[vivfox]

I would much rather listen to Lindsey's new songs than anything that a Stevie has done lately. You Can't Fix This is the only song from this decade that I enjoy, and even then, she sounds like she's mooing.

So in your opinion, does this mean she has moved on from sounding like a goat or a lamb and graduated into sounding like a cow?:laugh:

[olive]

So in your opinion, does this mean she has moved on from sounding like a goat or a lamb and graduated into sounding like a cow?:laugh:

it is sort of like the emperor's new clothes , her voice is starting to ...... change

[HelloMonster]

So in your opinion, does this mean she has moved on from sounding like a goat or a lamb and graduated into sounding like a cow?:laugh:

Haha yes! Let's see what farm animal she'll do next. We'll make it a game. :D

[Macfanforever]

When I sing I sound like a dying cat.LOL...............

Get rid of Dave G's noise in "You Fix This" and replace him with Waddy,Lindsey or even Lady A's lead guitarist ,I would of enjoyed it.

Thank goodness that he was not playing with her on Jimmy's show last week .But he did gave a great interview with his buddy though.I gave him credit for that.

Its a great song and will written and Stevie was great but I would prefer to hear her vocals.

Stevie has a stock pile of old demos she can use them if she wants part with them and to give them to FM.This will save her time to write something new.

Once Stevie shows up.Once they put their mind to it.They will get it done .

With todays hi-tech digital studios .They can create magic quickly.

Speaking of Dave S .Dave S is heading to Nashville and Waddy is going there according to the other thread on here .I wonder whats up there.

[Japhry]

I was going to start a new thread on this, but saw this segue on this thread: Stevie (In addition to one really good NEWLY written song) could definitely contribute the following:

Re-record "Joan of Arc" similar to how it was recorded for Tango (why this wasn't put on Tango is a travesty, but anywho).

"All The Beautiful Worlds"

Finsh a bridge for "If You Were My Love".

These could all be spectacular still with the right production (or lack of over-production) IMHO. :nod:

[nicole21290]

Per Dave S's Facebook, he's spending a few weeks in Nashville. And speaking of Nashville, you lot may be interested in this from Instagram which was posted 15 hours ago. Thanks to @justlikehome on Twitter for finding it. The very top of the photograph is cropped but it was just addressed to the girl whose Instagram account it is. And yes, it DOES say Go Your Own Way.

So we have Dave, Waddy and apparently Christine in Nashville.

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/BllQKiQCYAANT-T_zps8f444d9c.jpg

[welcomechris]

Omg Why Is She There?

[Aussie W/Heart]

I was going to start a new thread on this, but saw this segue on this thread: Stevie (In addition to one really good NEWLY written song) could definitely contribute the following:

Re-record "Joan of Arc" similar to how it was recorded for Tango (why this wasn't put on Tango is a travesty, but anywho).

"All The Beautiful Worlds"

Finsh a bridge for "If You Were My Love".

These could all be spectacular still with the right production (or lack of over-production) IMHO. :nod:

I love this idea, perfect choice:)

[nightbird28]

Maybe we are going to have a mixed bag of producers on this album. Dave, Michael Froom and Lindsey?

[BlueDenimLamp]

Per Dave S's Facebook, he's spending a few weeks in Nashville. And speaking of Nashville, you lot may be interested in this from Instagram which was posted 15 hours ago. Thanks to @justlikehome on Twitter for finding it. The very top of the photograph is cropped but it was just addressed to the girl whose Instagram account it is. And yes, it DOES say Go Your Own Way.

So we have Dave, Waddy and apparently Christine in Nashville.

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/BllQKiQCYAANT-T_zps8f444d9c.jpg

I lifted part of the thread from the "Stevie Section"

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Off to Nashville, Tennessee on Saturday with Waddy Wachtel
I wonder why ;) <a href="http://t.co/xVTRV2rwPU">http://t.co/xVTRV2rwPU</a></p>&mdash; Dave Stewart (@DaveStewart) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaveStewart/statuses/457046180313038848">April 18, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well this could be interesting...I wonder who else will be there?

Maybe Stevie is recording some tunes with Lady A.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Circus moving to Nashville for a few weeks :) <a href="http://t.co/CugzOxvMv7">http://t.co/CugzOxvMv7</a></p>&mdash; Dave Stewart (@DaveStewart) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaveStewart/statuses/457342097217970176">April 19, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Whatever Dave is up to it looks like he will be in Nashville for a while...

Thanks for the info.I guess he loves it there.There is alot of music action there.I wonder if Stevie will get invited to join his circus.LOL...

It seems we now have Christine in Nashville as well...This could be very interesting indeed...

[sue]

I know...after Stevie's success with Lady Antebellum..
A country Album is on the cards for The Mac, that's why they are in Nashville.

[BlueDenimLamp]

I know...after Stevie's success with Lady Antebellum..
A country Album is on the cards for The Mac, that's why they are in Nashville.

Dave records his albums there and Stevie has done work there before as well...Just because someone is working in Nashville doesn't mean it has to be country...A lot of people record there because there are vast amount of resources available in a single area...

[gldstwmn]

Omg Why Is She There?

Why do you think? :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Dave records his albums there and Stevie has done work there before as well...Just because someone is working in Nashville doesn't mean it has to be country...A lot of people record there because there are vast amount of resources available in a single area...

And Tennessee is a beautiful place...

[nicole21290]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/8e903159c96598f089e538b5d26de12f_zps0c2d6c57.jpg

[elle]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/8e903159c96598f089e538b5d26de12f_zps0c2d6c57.jpg

Christine McVie was spotted on the flight to Nashville today...

[BlueDenimLamp]

And Tennessee is a beautiful place...

There's also a great musical history (Not just country) in Nashville and from the south in general...Most of the of the blues that influenced the British blues bands of the 60's and probably FM as well came from the south...If and I say if anything FM related is taking place in Nashville it would almost be like they are going full circle...Or as Lindsey would say "It's so circular"

[elle]

cheaper than free :p

[BlueDenimLamp]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>On way to Nashville, Tennessee this morning :) <a href="http://t.co/KIBq2W4sGK">http://t.co/KIBq2W4sGK</a></p>&mdash; Dave Stewart (@DaveStewart) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaveStewart/statuses/457541684562104320">April 19, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So we now know that Stevie, Dave, Waddy and Christine are in Nashville...:nod::D:nod:

[Macfanforever]

I know...after Stevie's success with Lady Antebellum..
A country Album is on the cards for The Mac, that's why they are in Nashville.

I love to see that.Wow FM on the Grand Ole Opry.

I'm glad to see some action with maybe some recording going on.

[elle]

I love to see that.Wow FM on the Grand Ole Opry.

I'm glad to see some action with maybe some recording going on.

Nashville has a very diverse music scene, it's not just country there.

bunch of older rockers who had enough of LA or don''t want to ramie their kids in that environment have moved to Nashville, too.

[secondhandchain]

I bet Stevie is only going to record if Dave S produces her tracks. But why is Waddy going? Is she refusing to even let Lindsey play on her tracks? WTF is going on? Very interesting. I love how Dave S said "wonder why" HA

[BlueDenimLamp]

I bet Stevie is only going to record if Dave S produces her tracks. But why is Waddy going? Is she refusing to even let Lindsey play on her tracks? WTF is going on? Very interesting. I love how Dave S said "wonder why" HA

I posed that very question in the "Nashville" thread...You have to love Dave's cryptic tweets...