Should Wendy Welch remain on this site

[Wendy Welch]

Tell us your opinion. Should she be knocked off or asked to leave? or do you want to hear what she has to say?

[chriskisn]

Tell us your opinion. Should she be knocked off or asked to leave? or do you want to hear what she has to say?

Interesting question about yourself. What prompted it?

[HomerMcvie]

She posted a "public" article link about another former FM member(who semi-regularly posts in this forum), and their "apparent" former...."associations".

She says she was banned forever.

[ThePenguin]

She posted a "public" article link about another former FM member(who semi-regularly posts in this forum), and their "apparent" former...."associations".

She says she was banned forever.

She did not post a public article link. Her inflammatory attack contained no link at all. Other people have posted public article links frequently. She posted a lengthy personal attack of her own, accusing criminal conduct that has never been charged and is defamatory. It was removed and then she engaged in threats and accusations about the removal. She was told she can do what she wants on her Facebook page, but she can't do what she wants here. She then posted this thread and yes she has been banned.

[HomerMcvie]

I was only saying that I have searched the allegations(years ago), and found pretty much the same articles.

Being the internet, of course it doesn't mean that they're true, but they're certainly out there, for anyone to read.

[ThePenguin]

I was only saying that I have searched the allegations(years ago), and found pretty much the same articles.



She did not post a public link. She posted a personal attack which contained no link at all. However, she was not banned for the post. It was removed and that could have been the end of that. She decided she wasn't going to take no for an answer.

[chriskisn]

Sheesh I should check in more often, I usually miss all the drama. That damn time difference between the USA and Australia!!!

Can we all go back to being quiet now in the Early Years forum?

[dansven]

Wendy Welch has gone through some very rough times since Bob passed away. I don't know how well she really coped with it. She has our sympathy, understanding and respect.
But I know many here found her posts disturbing and even insulting... :(

[EWilner13]

I want Wendy to stay! She is very well informed and only posts the truth!!!!

[nicepace]

Banning Wendy altogether seems too harsh. Given her special status as the spouse of a deceased band member, she has a point of view and insight that is unique, and should be valued by our fan community. I'm not sure that she always posts "the truth," but I am sure she always states her opinion.

If there is a way to do this, maybe her posts could be screened by a moderator before they go public on the board. This would be like putting her "on probation." That seems like a more appropriate response than banning her altogether.

[chriskisn]

Banning Wendy altogether seems too harsh. Given her special status as the spouse of a deceased band member, she has a point of view and insight that is unique, and should be valued by our fan community. I'm not sure that she always posts "the truth," but I am sure she always states her opinion.

If there is a way to do this, maybe her posts could be screened by a moderator before they go public on the board. This would be like putting her "on probation." That seems like a more appropriate response than banning her altogether.

There are two points to be considered. Yes we have to give her respect because she's grieving and has lost her husband, band member or not. However, the same rules do apply to everyone on this board, and to allow one person to have special privileges simply because she's a link to the band isn't really acceptable.

Plus when her attacks are aimed at a former FM member who is also a member on here where do we draw the line?

[chriskisn]

Wendy Welch has gone through some very rough times since Bob passed away. I don't know how well she really coped with it. She has our sympathy, understanding and respect.
But I know many here found her posts disturbing and even insulting... :(

Sadly Bob was a great conspiracy theorist, and Wendy seems to be too. There isn't always a conspiracy behind everything. Bob didn't get into the hall of fame perhaps because he had a lawsuit against Mick, John and Chris. Chris got pissed as any of us would and didn't want anything to do with Bob. Yes, Bob was probably well within his rights to sue, but that didn't make Chris' feelings any less valid. It wasn't a conspiracy it was just plain personal dislike and resentment. These things happen even if they shouldn't.

No-one is trying to delete Bob's memory, it just doesn't sell albums. I'm one of the few people on here who think the Bob Welch era was the best era of FM. Most people think PG or SN/LB. Those eras sell albums, make money and people care about them. They don't care about the time in the wilderness between Peter leaving and SN and LB joining. It isn't a conspiracy it is just commercial common sense.

[dansven]

Sadly Bob was a great conspiracy theorist, and Wendy seems to be too. There isn't always a conspiracy behind everything. Bob didn't get into the hall of fame perhaps because he had a lawsuit against Mick, John and Chris. Chris got pissed as any of us would and didn't want anything to do with Bob. Yes, Bob was probably well within his rights to sue, but that didn't make Chris' feelings any less valid. It wasn't a conspiracy it was just plain personal dislike and resentment. These things happen even if they shouldn't.

No-one is trying to delete Bob's memory, it just doesn't sell albums. I'm one of the few people on here who think the Bob Welch era was the best era of FM. Most people think PG or SN/LB. Those eras sell albums, make money and people care about them. They don't care about the time in the wilderness between Peter leaving and SN and LB joining. It isn't a conspiracy it is just commercial common sense.

Thanks Chriskisn! This is really one of the most informative and sensible posts I have read on this theme. And it's not a thing that I know very much about... so thanks! :)

[BLY]

Thanks Chriskisn! This is really one of the most informative and sensible posts I have read on this theme. And it's not a thing that I know very much about... so thanks! :)




I second that!

[Lori40]

Why ban Wendy when she is one of the few members of the ledge who actually know FM band members, past and present? Many people on here think they know FM members because they went to a Mick meet and greet or hung out at venues show after show and got a few words and a photo with Lindsey. Why doesn't Wendy get to share her insights and opinions about band members when she has more credibility than most everyone else here does?

[Patrick]

While it appears that Wendy's post may have been offensive to some, or at very least one as evidenced by her banishment from this site, I certainly can not agree with the decision to ban her from future posts.

Wendy is someone who is posting from the viewpoint of an "insider" , meaning that she, among all of us (or almost all, as I m not 100 percent sure) has insider information, having had countless encounters , conversations, and interactions with many Fleetwood Mac members. And I would say ,as Bob Welch's wife, that she had most likely been filled in on the many conversations and goings on that she did not hear first hand. So I would say that her information and viewpoint should not only be tolerated, it should be welcomed. And given the RRHOF situation, one could say that she has more of a bona fide reason to post than all of us.

The banning seems excessive. I am sure that Wendy would be approachable and reasonable enough to post within the guidelines and parameters of this board if asked to do so.

Regarding RRHOF, I would say that to state that, Wendy, or the many supporters of Bob Welch are in support of a conspiracy theory ,would be incorrect. There is no "theory" ,he was left out the RRHOF by someone's deliberate doing. The reason and motivation is and was transparent. As far as the "conspiracy " part, I believe it may meet the criteria.Thank you

[WildHearted]

The banning seems excessive. I am sure that Wendy would be approachable and reasonable enough to post within the guidelines and parameters of this board if asked to do so.


If this were the case she would not have been banned.

[chriskisn]

Why ban Wendy when she is one of the few members of the ledge who actually know FM band members, past and present? Many people on here think they know FM members because they went to a Mick meet and greet or hung out at venues show after show and got a few words and a photo with Lindsey. Why doesn't Wendy get to share her insights and opinions about band members when she has more credibility than most everyone else here does?

See the penguins reason for banning earlier in this thread. Doesn't matter who you are personal attacks aren't ok. Anyway I think wendy did more harm to bob's legacy in the short time she was here than mick fleetwood ever has. Which is sad because it was the opposite of what she was trying to do.

[louielouie2000]

If there is a way to do this, maybe her posts could be screened by a moderator before they go public on the board. This would be like putting her "on probation." That seems like a more appropriate response than banning her altogether.

Unfortunately this is not something our board software is capable of. Even if it were, we have over 4,600 members now. So screening people individually like this would not be an option, even if we did have the software capability (which we do not).

It is worth noting we have several Ledge members who fall under the "insider" umbrella. These include past & present band members, producers, their spouses/relatives, etc. None receive special treatment, and our board rules are applicable to all members- regardless of their stature.

[Mr Scarrott]

I'm really saddened by what's happened, but from what I can make out, and with a great deal of regret, I think the right decision has been taken. There's a legal question at stake and you can't leave yourself or the site owners open to possible action. There's been quite enough of that sort of thing happening in the UK.

I'm sure none of this will stop us having Bob and Wendy very much in our thoughts.

[dansven]

I think everybody here feel sorry for Wendy Welch and wish her all the best.

I am really glad that the administrator and several moderators are involved in this case (ThePenguin, WildHearted, louielouie2000 and perhaps others too)
So let's trust that this case is being handeled the right way.

[sodascouts]

I absolutely agree with this decision. In fact, I hate the mentality that if someone is an "insider" they should be allowed to do whatever they want.

It's that sense of entitlement that leads to celebrities... and their family members... feeling free to engage in all sorts of misconduct. They are surrounded by sycophants so desperate to be close to an "insider" that they'll let them get away with murder.

"How dare you treat me that way! Don't you know who I am?!" That attitude doesn't work with me.

[mylittledemon]

Banning Wendy altogether seems too harsh. Given her special status as the spouse of a deceased band member, she has a point of view and insight that is unique, and should be valued by our fan community. I'm not sure that she always posts "the truth," but I am sure she always states her opinion.


So I would say that her information and viewpoint should not only be tolerated, it should be welcomed. And given the RRHOF situation, one could say that she has more of a bona fide reason to post than all of us. The banning seems excessive. I am sure that Wendy would be approachable and reasonable enough to post within the guidelines and parameters of this board if asked to do so.


This all would be totally accurate and welcomed, if Wendy had acted like a rational human being whilst here on The Ledge. Every post was borderline slanderous (if not fully) and negative in nearly every sense of the word. Everyone should understand that we gave Wendy plenty of opportunity to amend things; to slow down, to take it easy, whatever. When people get banned, we realize it's a shock to everyone. It's a shock to us half the time. You all should know that banning is not an easy decision to come to, but when someone is given three, four, five (or more) strikes... we can't allow that to continue. Especially when the law is being broken.

[iamnotafraid]

my two cents...

Since there seems to be relatively few insiders here I can't imagine it
being overwhelming to check on their post frequently and delete them
if needed. Possibly legally necessary for The Ledge if they're defamatory.

And most especially in this section of the Ledge where there are few and
infrequent posts. Maybe another moderator could be added to make sure
no shenanigans were going on like some silly person posting things like April
Fools' jokes that seemingly upset so many people. And no, I don't want to be
a moderator.

If Wendy is who she says she is (has that been verified?), she seems to need
professional help. Coping with Bob's death and everything that came after
seems to have been more than she can handle on her own. Maybe The Ledge
could help in her recovery.

People who know and actually have worked with the members of Fleetwood
Mac aren't necessarily special or more important than the rest of us. But the
insight they offer is special and for that purpose they shouldn't be permanently
banned.

That was more than two cents worth.

[MikeInNV]

Coping with Bob's death and everything that came after
seems to have been more than she can handle on her own. Maybe The Ledge
could help in her recovery.


Or maybe spending time her was preventing her from getting real help. Internet forums are no place for treatment of any kind. I often felt like she wanted us to validate her anger at other FM members, and if you didn't completely buy into what she was saying, that just seemed to fuel her more, which isn't good for her. Not long ago in one of her rants, she said Christine resented Bob for selling more solo albums than her, and that's why she blocked him from the RRHOF. I didn't understand why this new "reason" suddenly emerged after so many other messages on the same topic, and obviously it made no sense (wouldn't she resent Stevie even more?). That's when I decided she's just mad at the world and wants us to be too. I feel very bad for what she's going though, but we can't really give her the help she needs.

[michelej1]

And most especially in this section of the Ledge where there are few and
infrequent posts. Maybe another moderator could be added to make sure
no shenanigans were going on like some silly person posting things like April
Fools' jokes that seemingly upset so many people. And no, I don't want to be
a moderator.


I don't think it's worthwhile to use a moderator for that purpose. As for your post, I think it came out about two days ahead of April Fools.

Regarding Wendy, she did not want to be moderated. She demanded to have the removal of her post reversed and if it wasn't she promised that her and "Bob's friends" would publicly expose this site as being in support of child molestation. Of course, she can expose the site as anything she wants -- on her Facebook page, which is also where I think she can find the most cathartic relief for her grief, if relief can be found online at all.

Michele

[Hawkeye]

While it appears that Wendy's post may have been offensive to some, or at very least one as evidenced by her banishment from this site, I certainly can not agree with the decision to ban her from future posts.

Wendy is someone who is posting from the viewpoint of an "insider" , meaning that she, among all of us (or almost all, as I m not 100 percent sure) has insider information, having had countless encounters , conversations, and interactions with many Fleetwood Mac members. you



Well there's FM77 who seems VERY close to the band. I'm not ever gonna ask who but they often talk in terms of speaking with members of the current line up, Stevie in particular.

[jbrownsjr]

If I were running a board and someone accused me of supporting child molestation, they'd be gone. Done, end of story. Bye.

It's just way beyond the scope of what's right and wrong. You want to go off on the deep end, then start your own message board and do it there.

I've been on this board for a very long time and I've never even got a whiff that anyone here was against Bob Welch. There are people that get very angry if you don't have Stevie and Lindsey married, and/or making imaginary albums together. But other than that, the Bob Welch fans have been relatively sane and in check with reality.

I don't doubt that Christine had problems with Bob. But I certainly am not going to trust someone that sounds off like Fox News and uses every single possible angle to make a point to crucify her. Then crucify her bandmates, her fans, and now the person that owns the board. I found she even got upset when you agreed with her.

This is a common sense move to me.

[chriskisn]

She demanded to have the removal of her post reversed and if it wasn't she promised that her and "Bob's friends" would publicly expose this site as being in support of child molestation. Michele

Who are we to know what people on this site get up to when they aren't sitting on their computer? Just because allegations have been made against someone, they haven't ever been tested in a court of law, so surely the presumption of innocence prevails?

[chriskisn]

I've been on this board for a very long time and I've never even got a whiff that anyone here was against Bob Welch.

In fact we are often the ones who try to keep Bob's legacy alive by reminding people of how great he was. We are the ones that have bought the albums, not just of the FM era but his solo albums as well. There are a lot of pro-Bob Welch people here that were here before all of the Wendy worshippers joined or tried to join.

[jbrownsjr]

In fact we are often the ones who try to keep Bob's legacy alive by reminding people of how great he was. We are the ones that have bought the albums, not just of the FM era but his solo albums as well. There are a lot of pro-Bob Welch people here that were here before all of the Wendy worshippers joined or tried to join.

It's my fav period. Amazing comp, arranging, and dark.

[aleuzzi]

Sadly Bob was a great conspiracy theorist, and Wendy seems to be too. There isn't always a conspiracy behind everything. Bob didn't get into the hall of fame perhaps because he had a lawsuit against Mick, John and Chris. Chris got pissed as any of us would and didn't want anything to do with Bob. Yes, Bob was probably well within his rights to sue, but that didn't make Chris' feelings any less valid. It wasn't a conspiracy it was just plain personal dislike and resentment. These things happen even if they shouldn't.

No-one is trying to delete Bob's memory, it just doesn't sell albums. I'm one of the few people on here who think the Bob Welch era was the best era of FM. Most people think PG or SN/LB. Those eras sell albums, make money and people care about them. They don't care about the time in the wilderness between Peter leaving and SN and LB joining. It isn't a conspiracy it is just commercial common sense.

Bravo! Well said, sir.

[MacShadowsBall]

Well, I hate that Wendy has been banned. I haven't been here much this week so I don't know what she said. I'm assuming the offensive post has been removed.

:cool:

[chriskisn]

Well, I hate that Wendy has been banned. I haven't been here much this week so I don't know what she said. I'm assuming the offensive post has been removed.

:cool:

just read through the previous posts, you can kind of put two and two together and work out what was said and who it was aimed at.

[iamnotafraid]

As for your post, I think it came out about two days ahead of April Fools.

Regarding Wendy, she did not want to be moderated...

her Facebook page, which is also where I think she can find the most cathartic relief for her grief, if relief can be found online at all...

Michele

If you didn't like my story that's fine. We all have different senses
of humor. It being written a few days before April Fools didn't make
a difference though.

Back on topic. I believe it could be helpful for her to vent online.
She needs to get it out of her system and heal.

You not wanting Wendy here is understandable. It's your site I
suppose. I wouldn't want to own or run this website or any website
that's a pain to run. Even more so, ones that cost more money than
they bring in. Sounds like a headache to me.

I never was a big fan of Bob, especially with Fleetwood Mac. I do
think he was better without them. I do own a few of his albums.
The main reason I posted was because of my concern for her. I
didn't read every post she made, but some of the ones I did were
very troubling.

Wendy if you're reading this, there's a few of us that are concerned
about you. I hope you don't take offence. We wish you the very best.

[chriskisn]

Wendy if you're reading this, there's a few of us that are concerned
about you. I hope you don't take offence. We wish you the very best.

I think everyone on her accepted that Wendy was grieving and she got away with more than the rest of us would for that reason. Finding your husband after he has committed suicide is enough to screw up anyone's mental health, especially in the way it was done and the reasons it was done for. I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't wish her well and want the best for Bob's legacy.

[jbrownsjr]

^^ In that respect, my heart goes out to her. She's been through a lot with loss, pain, finances, estates, etc.

I loved Bob's music and think he was a fantastic and creative musician. I think he wrote the best lyrics out of any member. He kept the band alive. His blend with Christine was amazing. Even she admits that they had chemistry. It's a shame that he wasn't inducted, no matter who's fault it was.


I think that it's been cathartic for her to defend the music and lack of recognition in print. I personally still get pissed thinking about the snub from the RRHOF. Having said that, I hope Wendy can let go and get herself to a healthier place in life. Her life is not over and she needs to be healthy to carry on her goals with Bob's legacy.

This board has been nothing but supportive to her and I can only guess that she would threaten the board because she's not in a good place even now. That's why it's probably best she take a break, even if it's permanent.

[seekerj]

There are two points to be considered. Yes we have to give her respect because she's grieving and has lost her husband, band member or not. However, the same rules do apply to everyone on this board, and to allow one person to have special privileges simply because she's a link to the band isn't really acceptable.

Plus when her attacks are aimed at a former FM member who is also a member on here where do we draw the line?

And it's sad that anybody's right to express himself or herself is limited at all. The idea of allowing special privileges shouldn't be an issue, not because everyone's freedom should be limited, but because no one's freedom should be limited. There are times when an expressed point of view will not be popular. That's life. But is that really any reason to stop a person from expressing it? Why does a line need to be drawn?

[WildHearted]

And it's sad that anybody's right to express himself or herself is limited at all. The idea of allowing special privileges shouldn't be an issue, not because everyone's freedom should be limited, but because no one's freedom should be limited. There are times when an expressed point of view will not be popular. That's life. But is that really any reason to stop a person from expressing it? Why does a line need to be drawn?

A line has to be drawn when issues of legality come into play.

[Punkinseed55]

Wendy is a cool lady..leave her alone

[michelej1]

If you didn't like my story that's fine. We all have different senses
of humor. It being written a few days before April Fools didn't make
a difference though.



It had nothing to do with liking or not liking your Elvis song. The fact that it was before April Fools day is material, because the timing increases the likelihood of confusion. Some people would run into the thread, think Stevie had written a song (which is a big deal, since she's not recording with the band yet) and, what's more, that the song was about Lindsey. They'd get their hopes up, get excited and find it was a prank. You can expect such punking on April Fool's Day, but it's not very worthwhile to mislead other posters with fake threads during the rest of the year.

As for Wendy, venting is good, but depending on how you do it, it can be destructive. We all know the Kubler-Ross model on grief. I think if you stay in the anger stage too long, it can do more harm than good. There's no good "venting" in a way that increases your anger rather than relieves it.

I hope that she is able to clear the legal hurdles and publish the book of Bob's that he written. I was interested in that.

Michele

[michelej1]

I've been on this board for a very long time and I've never even got a whiff that anyone here was against Bob Welch.

Well, you know that Bob Welch would come on here himself sometimes in the old days and people always liked having him.

One time he was telling us about his wife's cancer scare and how he was disappointed in the response he got from some FM members.

Other times he told us about Sheryl Crow or Karen not being great.

I usually don't do Happy Birthday threads, but one time I did and he said it wasn't his birthday and that he was on record as having two birthdays because he just made one up one time for an interview and that fake birthday haunted and stayed with him through the years. It's been listed on some of his bios ever since.

He had a wry sense of humor and could be entertaining and he had a great deal of Ledgie support at the time. And I think whenever he made an appearance, it made people want to go to his website and check out what he was doing.

Michele

[louielouie2000]

Well, you know that Bob Welch would come on here himself sometimes in the old days and people always liked having him.

I miss his contributions. He always had some interesting tidbits to add to almost all types of discussions- Mac related or otherwise.

One of my favorite Ledge memories is from Bob's Q&A from 2003. I lived half of my life in North Carolina, so I'd always wondered what the backstory was behind the line in Hypnotized about the strange pond in North Carolina with sides of glass. I can't express how much it meant to me to hear straight from the man himself what inspired that story. I still pinch myself thinking that I had the chance to ask Bob about a lyric that had me curious for half my life.

As a side note, I was in a vintage furniture shop about an hour ago, and Sentimental Lady came on the radio (Bob's solo version). It just made me smile and think how grateful I am to be a Fleetwood Mac fan, and that we here at the Ledge got to have some personal interaction with Bob before his passing. :)

[michelej1]

His username was "Missus" if anyone wants to search his old posts.

Michele

[David]

I absolutely agree with this decision. In fact, I hate the mentality that if someone is an "insider" they should be allowed to do whatever they want.

It's that sense of entitlement that leads to celebrities... and their family members... feeling free to engage in all sorts of misconduct. They are surrounded by sycophants so desperate to be close to an "insider" that they'll let them get away with murder.

"How dare you treat me that way! Don't you know who I am?!" That attitude doesn't work with me.I completely agree with you, Nancy. Wendy (I am told) made very ugly allegations about a former Mac member (who happens to hang out here). Quite frankly, I'd rather he stick around than she.

[Tango]

It had nothing to do with liking or not liking your Elvis song. The fact that it was before April Fools day is material, because the timing increases the likelihood of confusion. Some people would run into the thread, think Stevie had written a song (which is a big deal, since she's not recording with the band yet) and, what's more, that the song was about Lindsey. They'd get their hopes up, get excited and find it was a prank. You can expect such punking on April Fool's Day, but it's not very worthwhile to mislead other posters with fake threads during the rest of the year.

As for Wendy, venting is good, but depending on how you do it, it can be destructive. We all know the Kubler-Ross model on grief. I think if you stay in the anger stage too long, it can do more harm than good. There's no good "venting" in a way that increases your anger rather than relieves it.

I hope that she is able to clear the legal hurdles and publish the book of Bob's that he written. I was interested in that.

Michele

I agree with everything you posted here. And I will definitely buy Wendy's book when it comes out. I think everyone here respected Bob and his Q&A interaction with The Penguin was priceless.

[mylittledemon]

You not wanting Wendy here is understandable.

That has nothing to do with it.

[iamnotafraid]

That has nothing to do with it.

Did you read all my post on the subject?

Not wanting her here doesn't have to mean Michelle doesn't like Wendy.
It might mean she doesn't want the trouble some of her post cause.

Expand your mind bro.

[mylittledemon]

Did you read all my post on the subject?

Not wanting her here doesn't have to mean Michelle doesn't like Wendy.
It might mean she doesn't want the trouble some of her post cause.


I did read your entire post, and chose to single out that particular statement because it's incorrect in terms of why Wendy is no longer here. It also has little if anything to do with the "trouble some of her posts cause"... Wendy was given ample opportunity to chill out, and she chose instead to gnaw the old ends.


Expand your mind bro.

Your instruction in the matter is noted. But did I slander you? I did not, so please, keep your thinly veiled insults to yourself.

[iamnotafraid]

It also has little if anything to do with the "trouble some of her posts cause"... Wendy was given ample opportunity to chill out, and she chose instead to gnaw the old ends.



Your instruction in the matter is noted. But did I slander you? I did not, so please, keep your thinly veiled insults to yourself.


How did she cause any trouble without it involving her
post, here or anywhere? Unless you're a mind reader?
Maybe she sent someone an impolite pm.

Dude I can't believe you got your panties in a wad over what
I said. If anything I have been mostly complimentary of you
over the years I've been here. Do you remember differently?
I would suggest chilling out, but would I get banned for that
since you're a moderator?

This isn't exactly directed at you but I don't think Michele needs
any knights in shining armor to come to her rescue. She seems
quite capable of handling herself. Her website her rules I suppose.

A most interesting thread...

[chriskisn]

I love the 1 post people who suddenly rock up and start telling us they want Wendy back or that Wendy is wonderful. I wonder how many of them can go and pull out the Head West album or perhaps a solo album other than French Kiss? In fact I wonder how many of them actually have Bob's FM albums in their collection? I'm not suggesting you have to have all of Bob's albums to comment on this, but I do wonder if some of these people have a clue about his music at all. This is isn't the Bob & Wendy Welch personal fan site.

[WatchChain]

I have NOT read all the posts regarding The Ledge's Wendy Welch controversy. I have an uninformed, perhaps even "stupid" question. Do we have evidence that the person posting under Wendy Welch's name is actually Wendy? This is the internet and anyone can post anything at any time. I know I must have missed some small detail. Please educate me.

If it is, in fact, Wendy Welch, then I don't think she should be banned from The Ledge. Let her rant on. Her writings are only her point of view and not necessarily the truth. Nonetheless, it's interesting to hear different points of view on the same topic. I'm quite sure that if you polled Nicks, Buckingham, McVie, Fleetwood, Burnett, Bramlett, Mason and Weston on details about their history with this band, you would get MANY DIFFERENT perspectives on things that "went down". It is certain that many details would not match up exactly. Nicks and Buckingham contradict each other quite frequently. Thus, why not let Wendy state her case? While you're at it, perhaps you could get Carol Ann Harris, Kim Anderson, Eddy Quintela and Sara Fleetwood some account screen names. I would love to read their posts.

[aleuzzi]

I have NOT read all the posts regarding The Ledge's Wendy Welch controversy. I have an uninformed, perhaps even "stupid" question. Do we have evidence that the person posting under Wendy Welch's name is actually Wendy? This is the internet and anyone can post anything at any time. I know I must have missed some small detail. Please educate me.

I have often wondered the same thing. I am inclined to believe it is indeed Bob's wife Wendy, since the tone and subject of most of her posts were entirely in line with her facebook posts on Bob's page once Bob died. Only someone who knew Bob's password or had access to Bob's computer could continue managing his facebook page. (I was a friend of Bob's. Once Wendy began using his page as a vehicle for attacks against existing FM members, I defriended "him.")

Also, she has often referenced "insider" tidbits of information, no matter how subjective or even distorted her presentation of them might have been.

That's what leads me to assume it really is her. However, your question is a good one. I have wondered, sometimes, if "Jeremy Spencer" is really Jeremy Spencer. Again, I am inclined to believe it is. And am thrilled he is here. But with the internet being what it is, you never know for sure.

.....................

Should Wendy have been banned? I trust Michelle and the other Ledge moderators who work hard to provide this service for us. Personally, I might have kicked her off months ago--but that was because she rubbed me the wrong way, which is not, in itself, sufficient grounds to ban someone. Michelle was right in giving her a long leash and letting her speak freely, within the parameters of what is acceptable on this board. She was occasionally reined in (told not to create new threads for already existing ones) but never censored. But once she began making accusations that could harm the ongoing existence of the site, she was kicked off--or at least that's how I read it.

[cabwinn]

I totally agree, alot of ppl would be happy to hear what she has to say!!!




Why ban Wendy when she is one of the few members of the ledge who actually know FM band members, past and present? Many people on here think they know FM members because they went to a Mick meet and greet or hung out at venues show after show and got a few words and a photo with Lindsey. Why doesn't Wendy get to share her insights and opinions about band members when she has more credibility than most everyone else here does?

[wetcamelfood]

I have wondered, sometimes, if "Jeremy Spencer" is really Jeremy Spencer. Again, I am inclined to believe it is. And am thrilled he is here. But with the internet being what it is, you never know for sure.

I can confirm that Jeremy Spencer here on the ledge is in fact the real deal (if this helps). He has answered questions both here and in PM's that only the real Jeremy would know the answers to and it has been confirmed by those that were the subject of those questions that what he spoke of was the truth. :)

John

[aleuzzi]

I can confirm that Jeremy Spencer here on the ledge is in fact the real deal (if this helps). He has answered questions both here and in PM's that only the real Jeremy would know the answers to and it has been confirmed by those that were the subject of those questions that what he spoke of was the truth. :)

John

Awesome. Thanks for the confirmation, John. I appreciate this.

[mzero]

this is a sad thread. in honoring bob's memory i can't think of any thing worse that we could do than ban his wife

but i agree with the moderators that we have no choice and that this a fair decision, emotions aside

i hope everyone can forgive wendy and support her in other ways

also hope that this incident doesn't discourage jeremy's involvement in the ledge. his posts have been wonderful and uniformly positive additions to this forum

z

[Patrick]

I love the 1 post people who suddenly rock up and start telling us they want Wendy back or that Wendy is wonderful. I wonder how many of them can go and pull out the Head West album or perhaps a solo album other than French Kiss? In fact I wonder how many of them actually have Bob's FM albums in their collection? I'm not suggesting you have to have all of Bob's albums to comment on this, but I do wonder if some of these people have a clue about his music at all. This is isn't the Bob & Wendy Welch personal fan site.

I can not speak for others , but I for one am quite knowledgeable of Bob's music and FM in general, having been a fan since day 1, although I can do without the current lineup. And I also can do without FM in general these days, given the treatment of Bob regarding the whole RRHOF debacle .

However, what I am seeing in reading this thread is - a lot of people ARE indeed quite unhappy about Wendy being banned. If you look at the posts on this thread, many of the non admin /moderator etc type people are NOT in favor of the ban, yet the administator(s) and the rest of the team are. And the thread is designed to be a discussion about this very topic, so to suggest that anyone posting in response to that very question needs to own a Head West record or any of the other criteria above , just does not make sense, that's what this thread is there for. What is anyone else's qualifications for posting anything on this site?? No one is asking for credentials anywhere else , are they?

Many people are unhappy about a decision that has been made about the wife of a former FM member and this is a FM forum, seems pretty clear cut to me. It is your interpretation of it that is askew.

[BlueDenimLamp]

I can not speak for others , but I for one am quite knowledgeable of Bob's music and FM in general, having been a fan since day 1, although I can do without the current lineup. And I also can do without FM in general these days, given the treatment of Bob regarding the whole RRHOF debacle .

However, what I am seeing in reading this thread is - a lot of people ARE indeed quite unhappy about Wendy being banned. If you look at the posts on this thread, many of the non admin /moderator etc type people are NOT in favor of the ban, yet the administator(s) and the rest of the team are. And the thread is designed to be a discussion about this very topic, so to suggest that anyone posting in response to that very question needs to own a Head West record or any of the other criteria above , just does not make sense, that's what this thread is there for. What is anyone else's qualifications for posting anything on this site?? No one is asking for credentials anywhere else , are they?

Many people are unhappy about a decision that has been made about the wife of a former FM member and this is a FM forum, seems pretty clear cut to me. It is your interpretation of it that is askew.

The fact is that Wendy treated Jeremy with disrespect...According to The Ledge rules one member is not allowed to verbally attack another member (both Wendy & Jeremy are members) so the fact she went after Jeremy was enough for action to be taken...

[BlueDenimLamp]

Wendy is obviously under a lot of stress and it seems that Bob's estate (as far as the music end of it) is in complete chaos...Perhaps Wendy should seek out one of the management agencies that specialize in celebrities after they have passed...From what I have heard they would get the musical end of Bob's career/estate in order and once everything is in order/settled they would manage Bob's legacy for Wendy...

[becca]

Banning or being banned is not fun. Ultimately a private site with most people as guests it's the decision of the hosts, so nothing to argue with. I have been banned from a couple of places online in my time, I thought I was standing up to bullies or a gang mentality in both cases, which I really have not seen here, but on the scale of injustices it ranks pretty low. I try not to take things too personally especially where people know only a little bit of another person.

You can catch more flies with sugar than vinegar, and I think the best way to get Bob Welch in that hall would be stressing the positive/artistic/commercial accomplishments and not anything else. I don't think you can either sue or shame your way into anything lasting, sorry. :(

I know Mick has been very generous to a young musician where I live, and solely out of love for music and passing along opportunity to someone he sees as having the capacity to benefit from it. If he also punches puppies when nobody is looking I don't know that. :shrug:

P.S.: Bob was very commercially successful in America; his music was everywhere in the late '70s and at least Hypnotized with Fleetwood Mac got heavy airplay. So I can't agree with saying his lack of commercial clout is behind anything. Peter Green on the other hand never has gotten much recognition or sales from the U.S. audience. I would not have been surprised if most of the people behind the hall of fame wouldn't have known who he was when they inducted FM, but would have been very surprised if they didn't know of Bob Welch.

[mylittledemon]

How did she cause any trouble without it involving her
post, here or anywhere? Unless you're a mind reader?
Maybe she sent someone an impolite pm.

Dude I can't believe you got your panties in a wad over what
I said. If anything I have been mostly complimentary of you
over the years I've been here. Do you remember differently?
I would suggest chilling out, but would I get banned for that
since you're a moderator?

This isn't exactly directed at you but I don't think Michele needs
any knights in shining armor to come to her rescue. She seems
quite capable of handling herself. Her website her rules I suppose.

A most interesting thread...

I didn't get my panties in a wad. However, telling someone to expand their mind is not under most circumstances, in my opinion, a compliment. I asked you to keep your insults to yourself please. Do I come to where you work and knock the broom outta your hand? Sure don't. I don't need you to tell me, or Michele, or any of us how to moderate. Especially when, as a rational adult, you must consider that we mods have light shed on all these matters and you do not. You need not fear for your skin. But please drop it.

[sodascouts]

You guys talking about how you want to hear what Wendy has to say... have you actually read her posts? Especially you people who joined solely to comment on this?

I have read many of her posts. They largely alternated between her attacking someone (either a member of the band or a member of the board) and posting about her personal problems. If there was ever anything actually insightful posted in the almost two years since Bob's death, it got buried in all the crap.

Plus, many of her posts contained things that were "misremembered," shall we say, and accusations that were completely unproven.

People looked the other way because she was Bob Welch's wife; they pitied her and/or wanted to interact with her because she was an "insider." Plus, many (including myself) believed it was unfair that Bob Welch wasn't inducted, so even when she went from advocating it to frothing at the mouth about it, folks didn't say anything.

Heck, even I bit my tongue. I never replied to her or said anything negative about her until this thread, but it pisses me off to see so many people give her a free pass, so I felt I had to speak up.

Handling her with kid gloves and the inevitable ass-kissing from certain members only encouraged her to get worse. Recently, she amped up her trash-talking to bile that could be considered legally slanderous, and it led to her banning.

I've been a member of this forum a long time, and I can tell you that my answer to the titular question is NO. I have no interest in hearing more ugly slander from Wendy Welch. Anybody who does, feel free to friend her on Facebook. You'll get an earful (or is it eyeful?) of it.

Have fun with that.

Note to admin and mods: kudos for having the balls to stand up to her.

[iamnotafraid]

... if Wendy had acted like a rational human being whilst here on The Ledge. Every post was borderline slanderous (if not fully) and negative in nearly every sense of the word.

You write this^, and then in post #49 you tell me and everyone else
that "it also has little if anything to do with the trouble some of her post cause".

You could and should have took expand your mind as just me saying
that you should read all my post on the subject before replying like you did
to me.

I can only base why I think Wendy was banned on what Michelle, moderators,
members and what my own eyes read. And then I gave my opinion that I didn't
think she should be permanently banned because of the insight she offered.

Note it's my opinion. And I don't really remember coming here and
knocking the broom out of your hand. Plus I had no idea you consider this
work, or even a work place. Telling Michelle or any moderators how to do
their job? You'll have to point me to those posts. I'm looking forward to that.

In closing. I don't live in fear of you or this place. I enjoy some of my time
here, but it's not something I couldn't live without. All I ask is, if you do respond
to any of my post please be accurate and not so condescending. I'm just a lowly
member that doesn't have light shed on all these matters.

I'd rather speak about the topic of this thread.

I had to pause to watch Stevie on the ACM'S.

[aleuzzi]

Does anyone associated with The Ledge have any connection with Mick? Perhaps such a person would be able to apprise Mick of the situation, explain that Wendy is genuinely hurting and suffering, and encourage him to reach out to her and put her in the way of business professionals who can help her manage Bob's estate and legacy.

[mylittledemon]

You write this^, and then in post #49 you tell me and everyone else
that "it also has little if anything to do with the trouble some of her post cause".


That part above was my fault, I meant to say that every one of her posts directed at Jeremy.


You could and should have took expand your mind as just me saying
that you should read all my post on the subject before replying like you did
to me.

I can only base why I think Wendy was banned on what Michelle, moderators,
members and what my own eyes read. And then I gave my opinion that I didn't
think she should be permanently banned because of the insight she offered.

Note it's my opinion. And I don't really remember coming here and
knocking the broom out of your hand. Plus I had no idea you consider this
work, or even a work place. Telling Michelle or any moderators how to do
their job? You'll have to point me to those posts. I'm looking forward to that.

In closing. I don't live in fear of you or this place. I enjoy some of my time
here, but it's not something I couldn't live without. All I ask is, if you do respond
to any of my post please be accurate and not so condescending. I'm just a lowly
member that doesn't have light shed on all these matters.

I'd rather speak about the topic of this thread.

I had to pause to watch Stevie on the ACM'S.


Hmm. Mkay.

First, when I originally quoted the line that I did from you, it was a reply for everyone... not just for you. Remember you're not the only one reading this thread, and everyone is going to have questions about why Wendy is no longer here.

What happened next was that you decided to respond to me by saying "expand your mind", which was a condescending thing to start with.

I asked you to keep that to yourself next time. Then in later posts you said I got my "panties in a wad", asked me to "chill out" etc. Again... condescension.

Yes, moderating here is a sort of job, and a privilege. And when you suggested that I expand my mind, and that my response was unwarranted as having only come to "Michele's rescue" , well, excuse me if I see that as dripping with further unnecessary condescension.

Now, since you stated that you're looking forward to me pointing out those instances to you, and that you can't wait to come back with another (what you believe to be) well informed reply, that indicates to me even more mindful instigating behavior on your part. If we were on a playground, it'd be fair of me to say that you started it. Nenny nenny boo boo. That sort of silly thing. So, since we've established you as the primary mover of discontent in this instance, I would only add that any other comment you feel the need to express on the matter be directed at me via private message.

[The Catdancer]

I think this whole banning thing is very disrespectful towards Wendy. If anyone knows the truth and will tell it like it is, it's her. Personally I think it's absurd.

[Ulpian]

I think this whole banning thing is very disrespectful towards Wendy. If anyone knows the truth and will tell it like it is, it's her. Personally I think it's absurd.

Disrespectful? So was what she posted about another band member who posts here, and she bordered on the defamatory - in my view - more than once.

I'm glad she has been banned. Her comments, particularly recently, gave me no pleasure to read.

[nicepace]

Although I expressed the opinion earlier in this thread that she shouldn't be banned, just moderated somehow, it is true that the general tone is more pleasant without her here. I find it sad that she chose to use this forum to air grievances toward other band members (several of them, at that), rather than turning to us fans for support.

She lost her husband in a dreadful, traumatic way that no one should have to endure in this life. I am sure that everyone here feels sympathy for her. To whatever extent we fans care about the musicians whose music we love, we also share her grief. But instead of seeking comfort and a supportive community here on the Ledge, she chose to vent her anger -- justified or not -- toward other band members, and sometimes even toward members of this board, until she stepped over a line and lost her membership privileges here.

It's just sad that her anger and grief led her to use this board in this way, when she could have received so much love and support from the folks here.

[dansven]

Although I expressed the opinion earlier in this thread that she shouldn't be banned, just moderated somehow, it is true that the general tone is more pleasant without her here. I find it sad that she chose to use this forum to air grievances toward other band members (several of them, at that), rather than turning to us fans for support.

She lost her husband in a dreadful, traumatic way that no one should have to endure in this life. I am sure that everyone here feels sympathy for her. To whatever extent we fans care about the musicians whose music we love, we also share her grief. But instead of seeking comfort and a supportive community here on the Ledge, she chose to vent her anger -- justified or not -- toward other band members, and sometimes even toward members of this board, until she stepped over a line and lost her membership privileges here.

It's just sad that her anger and grief led her to use this board in this way, when she could have received so much love and support from the folks here.

Very well said!! :)
Anyway, it's really sad it turned out like that. :distress:

[bobwelchera]

Wow...reading through a good bit of this has been very depressing. As I don't view the board *that* frequently - and this section less, unfortunately - I was unaware that Wendy Welch was on here in the first place. So I've not had the (mis)fortune of viewing her posts.

Folks continue to refer to other band members or former members who post here, but I am uncertain of who they are either.

That being said, I totally understand Bob's and Wendy's frustration with the Hall of Fame snub, and there's no doubt in my mind he should be there. Suits definitely are a "hey, this **** ain't right"-type of thing between friends, but Bob clearly felt he had no other choice. Had everyone been willing to talk things out truly and thoroughly...

Well. In my personal opinion, while Bob was depressed about the failure of his surgery and not wanting to go down the path his father did, I think he decided to leave us for reasons beyond that. The way he spoke in the Q&A from '99, while he had every right to be bitter, seemed like he was beyond heartbroken about the HOF rejection and the band's behavior...like his career, which took off because of his contributions to the band - and you see I love them from my name - meant nothing...that all he did to help the band soldier on (read: succeed more than they had been,) and their underlying friendships, was diddly squat. And his wife got to witness that. (This, despite the fact that he was more positive in the subsequent Q&A.)

Who knows, if everyone had made their peace without legal action and burning bridges, we could've seen a band with the White Album lineup *and* Bob. That's a pretty a beautiful image.

So I do not blame Wendy for being so furious and getting out some things that Bob likely never had the courage to say.

However. I volunteer at a rape crisis center. So for me, it is X-times far more inappropriate to "make light" of child molestation. For that reason alone, Wendy had no right to remain here. All we can do is send her positive vibes for healing during her grieving process.