Moments that bring down good songs

[KenB]

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on parts they don't like on Mac songs they otherwise enjoy. I thought of this topic while listening to "Temporary One," from The Dance -- see below. I'm more interested in musical moments than lyrical ones.

1. "Temporary One" -- I understand that a lot of fans aren't crazy about this new tune of Christine's on The Dance. I like it a lot. But that very cliched-sounding ascending bass riff John plays just after the second chorus (at right about the 1:30 mark)? It makes me cringe. It just sounds so generic and uncreative, like "I need to play something here, but I'm not sure what."

2. "Dreams" -- any live version after the mid-'80s. When Stevie sings that high C during the "It's only right" and "It's only me" lines on the studio recording, it's magical. When she plays it safe and avoids that high note live, it's flat and dull.

3. "As Long as You Follow" -- the brief guitar solo in the middle (don't know if it's Rick or Billy). Again, it sounds cliched to me and takes me out of the mood on a song I really like a lot.

4. "Everybody Finds Out" -- the weird compression effect Lindsey puts on Stevie's first couple of vocal lines. It seems purposeless. How does it benefit the song? (Please tell me and help me like this song better!)

5. "Book of Love" -- Lindsey's sped-up "Oh oh oh oh-oh" at the very beginning and repeated before verse two. I generally like Lindsey's '50s genre exercises, but this particular bit of music takes "Book of Love" into the realm of parody, for me.

Anybody agree or disagree? Or have their own moments?

[sanders8323]

"Over My Head": In the single version...the way that the guitar is brought so up front into the mix in the choruses is jarring. The album version is much more pleasing to the ear.

"I'm So Afraid": Studio version...just as the jam is getting hot at the end, the song starts to fade...Could've been longer.

"Oh Daddy": That little "blip blip blip blip" Chris does after the very last chorus is, again using this word, jarring. I recall reading that she did that because she wasn't sure what melody Lindsey was playing with his guitar and she was trying to bring that to his attention by playing some distorted chords. It ruins the atmosphere of the song.

"Silver Springs": The studio version that appears on the Rumours re-issues and Very Best Of...the way that they brought Stevie's vocals way up front into the mix in the choruses just about takes all of the beauty out of the harmonies in the choruses. The emotional impact is diminished. Go for the original B-side and Chain box set version.

"Oh Diane": Again another song that fades too early. A longer guitar solo at the end would've made the song better.

"When I See You Again": Pretty much Stevie's whole vocal to be honest. Lindsey is the saving grace of this song when he starts to sing.

"In the Back of My Mind": The intro is too long. The song would make more of an impact with a shorter intro.

[Kubrick2788]

Stevie backing off of belting and high notes in general irks me, but drawing out a 'Sara' instead of belting that last 'hooooooooooome, Sara' is what I think brings that song down anymore. It works at different speeds, but that last punch of lyric is missed :(

[san-l-bar]

Stevie backing off of belting and high notes in general irks me, but drawing out a 'Sara' instead of belting that last 'hooooooooooome, Sara' is what I think brings that song down anymore. It works at different speeds, but that last punch of lyric is missed :(

Is it possible that Stevie just can't reach those notes anymore? I've noticed in studio recordings that her voice almost sounds speeded up when she's reaching high notes- like a modulator's being used? So if that's the case, I can understand why she wouldn't try it in concert night after night after night.

[On Ice]

2. "Dreams" -- any live version after the mid-'80s. When Stevie sings that high C during the "It's only right" and "It's only me" lines on the studio recording, it's magical. When she plays it safe and avoids that high note live, it's flat and dull.

Agreed...I think she can reach the note, but only on occasion. It would not be sustainable on a long tour. When the best part of the song is missing, is loses steam and it seams most times she just wants to get it over with, which is a shame, in that it totally deserves a modern rearrangement. I do give her kudos for the modern slower Rhiannon Intros and think she should stop there and ditch the rock version because of being unable to sing the chorus the way it's intended. I'm not really interested in the back up singers doing it for her.

Although not Mac, it's the same issue with Edge of Seventeen live, because she won't up the "winged" dove, the song falls flat and no attempt to outdo the wail makes up for that. I've always been disappointed with the song live for that very reason.

Lindsey: Most live versions of Not That Funny. While a quirky fun little song on Tusk, it's not a show stopper and doesn't deserve to be drawn out in shows. The 2013 tour was more what this song was intended to be.

Christine although close to "perfect" in my books, loses ground with Only Over You, with the too obvious Beach Boys imitation with Out of my Mind. Those words don't work with what's she's trying to achieve.

[Villavic]

"I'm So Afraid": Studio version...just as the jam is getting hot at the end, the song starts to fade...Could've been longer.


The live versions are really Lindsey's wise move. The falsetto in the studio version was not the best way.

[Phil]

Ken B, I agree with everything you have said, except for live versions of "Dreams" post mid 1980's. Whilst I understand why those high notes are missed by many, I actually like the more tortured, mature versions. My only problem with the live versions post mid 1980's is that Stevie sometimes sounds bored, but this is true of just about everything she performs these days.
Regarding "Everybody Finds Out", I'm certain there's a half decent song in there somewhere, but the production is so clunky, it just saps the life out of proceedings. Stevie's vocal is also strained to the point of being unlistenable in my opinion. (This also applies to many of her songs on the Say You Will album.)
Sanders8323, I agree with most of your comments except for "Silver Springs" and "When I See You Again". I do think "When I See You Again" is jarring in parts, but this is due to the arrangement more than Stevie's vocal in my opinion. I really dislike the percussive element as well as those awful backing vocals courtesy of Christine and Lindsey. If the song had been an acoustic reading all the way through, I think it would be improved. Whilst I kind of enjoy Lindsey's vocal towards the end, I would have preferred Stevie's harmony vocal to have remained intact.
I would like to add "Illume" to the list because the finished version frustrates me. I believe this could have benefited from a more melodic arrangement, perhaps featuring piano, and a less monotone vocal from our girl. In other words, Christine should have been present. Such a waste.

[mitzo]

I think Everybody Finds Out is quite a masterpiece as recorded, including the surprising vocals, but it is brought down by a too-enthusiastic bass track that comes through at inopportune moments and makes the drama of the song fade to goofy.

[aleuzzi]

FM is usually good about minimizing such moments. They usually make the right choices, be they instinctive or calculated. But I will concur with the previous comment about the single version of "Over My Head," which does not match the subtlety and magic of the album version--and, for that matter, all of the single remixes from the white album, which sound odd in comparison to the originals. But I understand that they were trying to craft a sound that would play well on a car radio, so...

I also think Lindsey made a HUGE mistake not accepting John's bass parts for Second Hand News. If you listen to the Rumours reissue, the earlier version sounds so much more buoyant because of the bubbling bass. LB's decision to replace it with his own flat bass line is inexplicable to me.

On a pre-BN song, I think "Come a Little Bit Closer" is one of greatest lost opportunities in the band's catalogue. The overblown drums, the pedal steel, horns, and strings--it's all so horrifying. The song is a delicate ballad with a great melody that should have been stripped down to piano, acoustic guitar, a soft bass, and some brushes--that alongside Christine's lovely voice.

[bethelblues]

A few I can think of that haven't been mentioned:

- Family Man...not by any means a standout song, but it probably would be infinitely better with different lyrics and meaning. I always liked the guitar part/instrumentation and pay very little to the lyrics.

- Sisters of the Moon...the recent version from last year. I have no idea why they decided to take so much life out of the song by not rocking the chorus section, shortening the guitar solo, and then Stevie singing "Sister" over the guitar. It would've been nice if they had rewatched the Tusk and Mirage tour versions---or maybe there was a deliberate intent on taking a different path.

- Bleed to Love Her...the Say You Will album version. I think the production choices, the beat added to the song, takes away much of the magic of the Dance live performance.

[WildHearted]

The absurd tempo of the album version of Say Goodbye.

[drzubritsky]

2. "Dreams" -- any live version after the mid-'80s. When Stevie sings that high C during the "It's only right" and "It's only me" lines on the studio recording, it's magical. When she plays it safe and avoids that high note live, it's flat and dull.

Agreed...I think she can reach the note, but only on occasion. It would not be sustainable on a long tour. When the best part of the song is missing, is loses steam and it seams most times she just wants to get it over with, which is a shame, in that it totally deserves a modern rearrangement. I do give her kudos for the modern slower Rhiannon Intros and think she should stop there and ditch the rock version because of being unable to sing the chorus the way it's intended. I'm not really interested in the back up singers doing it for her.

Although not Mac, it's the same issue with Edge of Seventeen live, because she won't up the "winged" dove, the song falls flat and no attempt to outdo the wail makes up for that. I've always been disappointed with the song live for that very reason.



She was already altering the melody to "Dreams" by the time of the HBO concert, although I'm sure she could still hit that high "C" without too much trouble at that time. I agree that skipping the high note really hurts the melody; "Dreams" is so simple from a chord structure standpoint that it needs the dynamics in the melody of the verse.

Interestingly, it seems like she altered the live version of "Edge of Seventeen" right from the git-go, since she sings the lower harmony line on the chorus for the HBO special. IIRC, there is one moment in the Red Rocks concert where she sings the higher melody, so clearly she was still able to hit those notes.

I think she is so focused on vocal control and preserving her voice that she got too cautious in her live performances starting in the early 80s.

[SadAngel86]

The absurd tempo of the album version of Say Goodbye.

YES! I cringed so bad when I heard the studio version for the first time. The live versions are so much better and much more emotive!

[MikeVielhaber]

YES! I cringed so bad when I heard the studio version for the first time. The live versions are so much better and much more emotive!

You heard the studio version after the live version? I heard the studio version first....long before SYW came out when it was part of Lindsey's unreleased solo album.....and so I prefer it that way,

[sodascouts]

I would like to add "Illume" to the list because the finished version frustrates me. I believe this could have benefited from a more melodic arrangement, perhaps featuring piano, and a less monotone vocal from our girl. In other words, Christine should have been present. Such a waste.

The thing that ruins this song for me are the weird echoing of "what I saw on this journey" etc. using a distorted version of Lindsey's voice overemphasizing the words until it sounds almost mocking. One of his most bizarre and destructive production choices, I think, because it takes away from the honest emotion of a natural vocal and makes it something contrived.

If he wanted to make Stevie's tune less monotonous, he could have added a natural and melodic vocal counterpart. He could have added so much if he had just resisted the urge to make it unnatural through studio manipulation... His choice is inexplicable to me.

Another song, Say You Will, was ruined by Stevie adding cutesy kid vocals repeating that chorus ad nauseum at the end.

[louielouie2000]

Some of the worst offenders come from the bands solo albums, such as:

That horrible synthesized solo in the middle of Ask Anybody on Christine's '84 solo album. Embarassingly awful elevator music. :distress:

Kenny G's sax solo in the middle of Alice on Stevie's Other Side Of The Mirror. No, just no. :(

The obnoxious way What Makes You Think You're The One starts with those piercing, sharp drum bangs. :eek:

The hugely cheesy intro to In The Back Of My Mind. It's like a Disney haunted house movie or something.

[michelej1]

Lindsey's vocals on Down Endless Street. It makes the song campy, when actually it had great value as a "straight" song.

The effects he uses on it make it sound like a Halloween special, and you expect to hear ghosts shrieking "booo-booo-booo" through it. I still like the song a great deal. But I would have liked it even more if he'd just gone traditional with the vocals.

Michele

[KenB]

The absurd tempo of the album version of Say Goodbye.

Yes. How great would it be if they re-recorded "Say Goodbye" for the new album, in a pace similar to the live version? It could be such an amazing song.

[MikeVielhaber]

The obnoxious way What Makes You Think You're The One starts with those piercing, sharp drum bangs. .

How does this bring a good song down when the whole song comes after it?

[goldustsongbird]

1. "Temporary One" -- I understand that a lot of fans aren't crazy about this new tune of Christine's on The Dance. I like it a lot. But that very cliched-sounding ascending bass riff John plays just after the second chorus (at right about the 1:30 mark)? It makes me cringe. It just sounds so generic and uncreative, like "I need to play something here, but I'm not sure what."

3. "As Long as You Follow" -- the brief guitar solo in the middle (don't know if it's Rick or Billy). Again, it sounds cliched to me and takes me out of the mood on a song I really like a lot.



I love Temporary One, and hope they play it when I see them. But as I've been singing it to myself over the last few days, I thought, It really does go on and on. :laugh:

ALAWYF is a time travel machine to 1990. I hear it and think neon Nike and being in a mall like this. (http://www.retronaut.com/2011/03/shopping-malls-usa/)


Another song, Say You Will, was ruined by Stevie adding cutesy kid vocals repeating that chorus ad nauseum at the end.

This is FM's death knell, honestly. It'd be a cute thing to keep in Destiny Rules, but not on the CD.


- Bleed to Love Her...the Say You Will album version. I think the production choices, the beat added to the song, takes away much of the magic of the Dance live performance.

This one suffered from SYW's overproduction. :( I love The Dance performance.

[michelej1]

Oh, I definitely agree with the kids at the end of SYW. Gag.

You're right, I loved the little footage on Destiny Rules. Molly was there and Will must have been like 4. It was adorable, but I don't need that stuff on my album.

I didn't really even believe that there were kids singing when I first heard the song. I thought it was Lindsey manipulating his voice.

Please, the sound of children's voices singing to me is ...:distress: I don't like my songs to "feel good."

Michele

[mottabam]

Some of the worst offenders come from the bands solo albums, such as:

That horrible synthesized solo in the middle of Ask Anybody on Christine's '84 solo album. Embarassingly awful elevator music. :distress:

Kenny G's sax solo in the middle of Alice on Stevie's Other Side Of The Mirror. No, just no. :(

The obnoxious way What Makes You Think You're The One starts with those piercing, sharp drum bangs. :eek:

The hugely cheesy intro to In The Back Of My Mind. It's like a Disney haunted house movie or something.

^ I'm probably the only one but that intro is perhaps my favorite part of that album. When it first came out I used to play it full blast in the car. Something about it I just loved. Sure it was unusual but I also thought it made a great intro as the opener on some of the Mask tour dates.

[olive]

^ I'm probably the only one but that intro is perhaps my favorite part of that album. When it first came out I used to play it full blast in the car. Something about it I just loved. Sure it was unusual but I also thought it made a great intro as the opener on some of the Mask tour dates.

I agree and it was a great opener

[wetcamelfood]

"In the Back of My Mind": The intro is too long. The song would make more of an impact with a shorter intro.

Hence, the single edit. :)

John

[sanders8323]

^
^
^
I'm aware there's a single edit, but it should have been the edit that made the album in the first place. Really, the song itself is not single material at all. IMO it is the worst song on Behind the Mask...yes, even worse than "The Second Time."

[Wdm6789]

2. "Dreams" -- any live version after the mid-'80s. When Stevie sings that high C during the "It's only right" and "It's only me" lines on the studio recording, it's magical. When she plays it safe and avoids that high note live, it's flat and dull.

Agreed...I think she can reach the note, but only on occasion. It would not be sustainable on a long tour. When the best part of the song is missing, is loses steam and it seams most times she just wants to get it over with, which is a shame, in that it totally deserves a modern rearrangement. I do give her kudos for the modern slower Rhiannon Intros and think she should stop there and ditch the rock version because of being unable to sing the chorus the way it's intended. I'm not really interested in the back up singers doing it for her.

Although not Mac, it's the same issue with Edge of Seventeen live, because she won't up the "winged" dove, the song falls flat and no attempt to outdo the wail makes up for that. I've always been disappointed with the song live for that very reason.

Lindsey: Most live versions of Not That Funny. While a quirky fun little song on Tusk, it's not a show stopper and doesn't deserve to be drawn out in shows. The 2013 tour was more what this song was intended to be.

Christine although close to "perfect" in my books, loses ground with Only Over You, with the too obvious Beach Boys imitation with Out of my Mind. Those words don't work with what's she's trying to achieve.


The Tusk tour "not that funny" is really good. It's actually much better than the album version, the album version should sound more like that live version.

The 1982 "not that funny" was not as good, actually disappointingly so. Especially because it's like 10 or 11 minutes long. It's too guitar dominant, the 1979-1980 one, Christine's piano and Lindsey's guitar are much more even and in sync. I wish that was was 10 minutes long.

[Hawkeye]

Counter thoughts:

1. I think the single over my head with the louder guitar is WAY better. Takes the song from being a 6 to a 9.

2. The kids don't bring say you will down. The song say you will brings say you will down. Never have I thought "this song kicks ass, serious stand out of the album. Stevie outdid herself here and then... SH*T, these kids voices RUINED this masterpiece.

3. dreams never matched its studio version once not even out the gate in 1977. Not one thing. The vocals, harmonies, not even the freaking instruments. The crying guitar never was the same live. The best live dreams for me are the wild heart and rock a little tours. They had some special nuances that were never seen before or after. Waddys special guitar intro was great.

[jbrownsjr]

Counter thoughts:

1. I think the single over my head with the louder guitar is WAY better. Takes the song from being a 6 to a 9.

2. The kids don't bring say you will down. The song say you will brings say you will down. Never have I thought "this song kicks ass, serious stand out of the album. Stevie outdid herself here and then... SH*T, these kids voices RUINED this masterpiece.

3. dreams never matched its studio version once not even out the gate in 1977. Not one thing. The vocals, harmonies, not even the freaking instruments. The crying guitar never was the same live. The best live dreams for me are the wild heart and rock a little tours. They had some special nuances that were never seen before or after. Waddys special guitar intro was great.

Agree on all fronts.

Love the OMH Single version so much better. Same for SYLM. I think Ken produced the single versions. Blue Letter and Rhiannon sound great too as single edits.

SYW is such a below average song, and the kids at the end make it even worse.

Dreams is such a pristine recording with the harmonies in the studio. I agree with the live versions. Christine and Lindsey never really get their voices up to par to help Stevie out. They often ruined Sara with bad backing vocals as well.

[jbrownsjr]

Lindsey's vocals on Down Endless Street. It makes the song campy, when actually it had great value as a "straight" song.

The effects he uses on it make it sound like a Halloween special, and you expect to hear ghosts shrieking "booo-booo-booo" through it. I still like the song a great deal. But I would have liked it even more if he'd just gone traditional with the vocals.

Michele

Hahaha!! Now you've ruined it for me. I can't not hear the Halloween special in this.

[lbfan]

The Tusk tour "not that funny" is really good. It's actually much better than the album version, the album version should sound more like that live version.

The 1982 "not that funny" was not as good, actually disappointingly so. Especially because it's like 10 or 11 minutes long. It's too guitar dominant, the 1979-1980 one, Christine's piano and Lindsey's guitar are much more even and in sync. I wish that was was 10 minutes long.

Actually, NTF started out at about 4-1/2 minutes at the start of the Tusk Tour and grew to 10 minutes over the course of the tour (1979 to 1980). The version on Fleetwood Mac Live is 9 minutes long (from the Tusk Tour). On both the Tusk Tour and Mirage Tour, the drum solo accounts for most of the increased duration. There is a live studio version that was included on a CD single (I believe the Love Shines CD single) from the 25 Years box set (but only included on the single, not in the box set - the box set includes the Mirage version from the taped HBO special).

[lbfan]

CD Single referenced above.

[Kubrick2788]

There was someone that mentioned the spoken word part on Illume...and I have to agree that it totally torpedoes that song. I'm not a huge fan of it, but that seems like a deliberate attempt to junk the song. How could anyone have thought that was a good idea?!?

[MikeVielhaber]

There was someone that mentioned the spoken word part on Illume...and I have to agree that it totally torpedoes that song. I'm not a huge fan of it, but that seems like a deliberate attempt to junk the song. How could anyone have thought that was a good idea?!?

So now we're making accusations of malicious intent? Lindsey always does weird stuff in his production especially with voices. I don't see this as any different.

[sodascouts]

No, there's no malicious intent. Sometime in the 80s Lindsey decided that it was mega-cool to distort voices. He's been doing it fairly regularly in songs ever since. And hey, it allows him to do a pretty effective simulation of female orgasmic cries in "Big Love"!

Still, you'd think he would realize that while that kind of gimmick might work for quirky songs, it has no place in an emotionally raw song about 9/11.

I think that kind of thing is why Stevie might be hesitant to have him produce her work for the current album.

However, I want Lindsey to produce. I still think he's brilliant; it's just he gets carried away with his gadgetry sometimes. If she could work with him and let him know when she's not comfortable with something beforehand, rather than waiting until it's too late and then complaining about it after the fact, we wouldn't need another producer. Teamwork, people!

[sanders8323]

"Heroes Are Hard to Find": I think the horns bring down an otherwise decent tune, making the song sound a bit too campy. A guitar would have worked better in their place.

"Straight Back": At one point it seems like John isn't sure what bass parts to play, and the result sounds like the bass isn't in sync with the melody. The verses are fine, but it's at the beginning of one of the choruses that this happens.

Tusk tour versions of "Rhiannon": Of most of the boots I've heard of this tour, it seems like Stevie just rambles and rambles during the climax of the song. Alot of times she sounds so monotone and her vocal is not bringing the needed intensity the song warrants. It's really a shadow of how she performed the song during the White album tour and most of the Rumours tour. Also the way she begins the song on this tour---"She rings like a bell through the night" instead of "Rhiannon rings like a bell through the night," makes it sound like she's starting on the second verse instead of the first, and it kind of throws off the listener.

[BLY]

No, there's no malicious intent. Sometime in the 80s Lindsey decided that it was mega-cool to distort voices. He's been doing it fairly regularly in songs ever since. And hey, it allows him to do a pretty effective simulation of female orgasmic cries in "Big Love"!

Still, you'd think he would realize that while that kind of gimmick might work for quirky songs, it has no place in an emotionally raw song about 9/11.

I think that kind of thing is why Stevie might be hesitant to have him produce her work for the current album.

However, I want Lindsey to produce. I still think he's brilliant; it's just he gets carried away with his gadgetry sometimes. If she could work with him and let him know when she's not comfortable with something beforehand, rather than waiting until it's too late and then complaining about it after the fact, we wouldn't need another producer. Teamwork, people!



I totally agree with you Nancy. Lindsey needed to do some of his "magic" on Mirage and Tango to make it sound like it was a true band effort.

[Wdm6789]

I always like live versions of Rhiannon better than the album version. I like "once in a million years a lady like her rises" better than "all your life." I like the "all your life" at the beginning, but when Stevie starts the chorus I like "once in a million years."

[MikeVielhaber]

I always like live versions of Rhiannon better than the album version. I like "once in a million years a lady like her rises" better than "all your life." I like the "all your life" at the beginning, but when Stevie starts the chorus I like "once in a million years."

I don't think that line scans as well. It sounds awkward. That whole bit really through "your life knows know answer". It doesn't fit well with the music and she basically shoehorns it in there.

[GypsySorcerer]

I like the single version of "Over My Head" better than the album version. I also like "Say Goodbye" on the album.

"Bleed to Love Her" is a gorgeous song, but there's too much noodling on the SYW version.

I don't like Stevie's vocals on "Peacekeeper." The song was much better to me as a Lindsey solo song.

[TimeCastASpell]

No one has mentioned the current way- well I guess from The Dance on that Silver Springs ends! Ugggggggh! Just kills me that any of the many Rumours era variations I have in my collection didn't make it out as a single way back when. I LOVE LOVE LOVE as in literally I consider it the greatest musical moment of all time- ALL TIME- (I'm absolutely obsessed) with how intense the end of Silver Springs is. I blast and scream along to "I'll Fol-Low You Down till the soooo-ound of my voice will HAAAUNT you." Just ahhh oh my gosh I can never get enough. It just does things to my mind and soul and body. So much intensity. Like I said, I basically scream along to it. I will fast forward to it and rewind again and again. THAT is how the song should end! I get that she's older and her voice had changed and heck even a young person can't likely sustain that vocal intensity (its too close to a scream. It's got to be potentially damaging on the vocal chords, no?) but uggggh I am so insanely disappointed by the whole tacked on floaty suddenly it's all okay forget that intensity and all "You could be my sil-ver spring. My blue green coooooooloes flaaaaashing." End. Just no. Kills it. When the original end legitimately is what takes some incredible lyrics and vocals into flat out mindblowing territory. It flat out kills the whole song to end that way. I'm not fond of songs that do that sort of end anyway. It sounds tacked on, forced. Whatever. And it's as it emotionally, never mind, those lyrics don't mean anything, forget it. Pretty song. Forget the intensity.

That's probably an overly passionate explanation- and what do you expect from TimeCastASpell, eh?

I agree with many others listed. Hate kid voices on any song and I kind of like Say You Will as just a lighthearted sort of fun song. And while I'm a pretty big fan of SYW in general I guess I definitely do see how much the band has been lacking those flat out incredible moments like the SS ending or the incredible Bass line and the build up in The Chain. I think I personally have a thing for intensity- speaking of which the line from Seven Wonders that goes "It's hard to find someone with that kii-ind of in-ten-sit-y is another of those moments for me. Maybe one of the very last truly great moments I can think of from the band. I know I'm such a big Fleetwood Mac fan because of those moments. Because of how it feels when I hear them. So killing any such moments will get me every time for sure. I do miss Stevie's high notes but I'm not even sure it's the pitch itself or just the force she would put behind her voice, you know? Or the delicious way her voice then drops. A lot of the older songs really played with Stevie's range. I love that. It's part of what's missing in newer songs to a degree.

[TimeCastASpell]

"Bleed to Love Her" is a gorgeous song, but there's too much noodling on the SYW version.


Definitely agree! I absolutely love BTLH. Ranks near the top of my favorite love sing list. But just the other day I was playing SYW for the first time in awhile and just felt let down by BTLH. And when you have fans 5 years to sing along with and love the version from The Dance and then go and play around with it, by nature many of us are going to think "Eh, this version is off. I don't like it.", you know? I really wish they hadn't bothered putting it on SYW.

[MikeVielhaber]

Definitely agree! I absolutely love BTLH. Ranks near the top of my favorite love sing list. But just the other day I was playing SYW for the first time in awhile and just felt let down by BTLH. And when you have fans 5 years to sing along with and love the version from The Dance and then go and play around with it, by nature many of us are going to think "Eh, this version is off. I don't like it.", you know? I really wish they hadn't bothered putting it on SYW.

I bet BTLH, as they had recorded it in the studio at the time prior to The Dance, was not much different than the version on SYW. They probably changed it up for the live version on the Dance.

[Kubrick2788]

@TimeCastASpell,

I like to think that the newer live version of SS (post Dance) is a reflection of Stevie's resigning to the fact that she will never have Lindsey. That slowed, drawn out reading of the lines comes across as longing for something that just won't come. I think it works and goes along with her mellowing on the whole thing after some time. Maybe in '97 there were still bits of actual romance related resentment, but now I'd like to think she's over all that business. She's not petty b/c she's still in love...now it's about money!

[BLY]

[QUOTE=TimeCastASpell;1125283]No one has mentioned the current way- well I guess from The Dance on that Silver Springs ends! Ugggggggh! Just kills me that any of the many Rumours era variations I have in my collection didn't make it out as a single way back when. I LOVE LOVE LOVE as in literally I consider it the greatest musical moment of all time- ALL TIME- (I'm absolutely obsessed) with how intense the end of Silver Springs is. I blast and scream along to "I'll Fol-Low You Down till the soooo-ound of my voice will HAAAUNT you." Just ahhh oh my gosh I can never get enough. It just does things to my mind and soul and body. So much intensity. Like I said, I basically scream along to it. I will fast forward to it and rewind again and again. THAT is how the song should end! I get that she's older and her voice had changed and heck even a young person can't likely sustain that vocal intensity (its too close to a scream. It's got to be potentially damaging on the vocal chords, no?) but uggggh I am so insanely disappointed by the whole tacked on floaty suddenly it's all okay forget that
intensity and all "You could be my sil-ver spring. My blue green coooooooloes flaaaaashing." End. Just no. Kills it. When the original end legitimately is what takes some incredible lyrics and vocals into flat out mindblowing territory. It flat out kills the whole song to end that way. I'm not fond of songs that do that sort of end anyway. It sounds tacked on, forced. Whatever. And it's as it emotionally, never mind, those lyrics don't mean anything, forget it. Pretty song. Forget the intensity.

That's probably an overly passionate explanation- and what do you expect from TimeCastASpell,



As thrilled as I was when the MAC did SS for the Dance I still didn't get that chill I did (and still do) when I hear the studio version. I will never forget the first time I heard that song on a juke box in the Poconos in 1977 on a family vacation. To this day when I hear the studio version I get chills as the song builds and builds and ends with a faded chorus. I don't like the way the live version ends but do LOVE the song is being performed.

[jmn3]

I don't know exactly when she started this with Rhiannon, I want to say 2001? Maybe earlier...I don't recall exactly, but that whole "Wellllll, I don't think you DO!?" is so jerky sounding and it really makes no sense. I don't think you do what? I believe it follows a couple of "Would you even try"'s...so it makes no sense at all.

The kids at the end of SYW, I have to agree, make an already clunker of a song, even worse!

Oh, and I can't forget Stevie's lyric alterations to Don't Stop....just awful. Again, in the context of the song, her lyrics make no sense.

[elle]

I bet BTLH, as they had recorded it in the studio at the time prior to The Dance, was not much different than the version on SYW. They probably changed it up for the live version on the Dance.

yeah i think so too. the first version i heard of it was GOS1, and that's the version i usually listen to. SYW is pretty similar to it (but i think maybe Chris' vocals are lower in the mix?). so GOS1 is my favorite version, other than the OMS and his half-baked request versions from UTS tour. i don't even know the dance version that well, although i own that DVD. i don't remember anything about it being that special. i guess it's just that people get used to whatever they hear first, or it holds special memories for them.

[moon]

Mein Gott, lot of critics to lot of songs I love!!!!!!! Hahaha anyway, I agree with other few things. Well, I've got some moments that for me bring down good songs.

- Yes, the intro of In the back of my mind. We're talking about 2 minutes of...NOTHING!!!!!!

- The "phone" voices on the SYW album. It's ok, lot of bands used voice effects like that in the 90s and 00s, but there's too much voices that sounded like on the phone, on the same record!!

- Stevie's backing vocals on Lindsey songs, also in SYW. I was listening to it, and for example in WTWCT, she sounds like a girl without wanting to sing.

- Lindsey's voice on the studio version of I'm So Afraid. So pitched, sharp, high, I don't know how can I say it!!

- Stevie screaming "Chaaaaaaaain keep us together!!" at the end of The Chain...And her screams in the '82 live version at the end of every chorus!!!!

- The "lot of Lindseys" singing on The Ledge. One of them is lost, definitely.

- The "I don't think you do" or something like that on Rhiannon too...

- The guitar solo at the end of Murrow. What's he playing?? How many guitars are there??

- What is not a guitar on Say Goodbye. Percussion maybe? It sounds weird.

- The long end of Crystal.


I'm bad, I know I know... :sorry:

[Matt Lucas]

Hello all---

This is a fascinating discussion to me because, for the most part, I either like a song or I don't, and there's not really a "moment" that, if changed, would make me love a song that I otherwise don't like.

Having said that...

I fell in love with "Bleed to Love Her" the first time I heard it. The main finger-picked guitar line is among my favorite parts that Lindsey has ever written. In fact, I think I'd love the song as much even if it had no lyrics or vocals. [Is there an instrumental version out there?]

But for me, the studio recordings [SYW, GOS1] suffer from an unbearable snare drum sound. To me, it is perhaps Lindsey's worst prodcution decision...ever. The rest of the song has lovely acoustic guitars, layered percussion, etc., but they are destroyed by a noisy, over-processed snare.

Tragic.

matt

[Ali]

I can't stand the SYW version of Steal Your Heart Away. The original vocals (with Christine) were great. Quieting those and pumping up Stevie's just killed the song.

[michelej1]

- The "phone" voices on the SYW album. It's ok, lot of bands used voice effects like that in the 90s and 00s, but there's too much voices that sounded like on the phone, on the same record!!



Yes, this is a phenomenon that I had not thought to put a name to before. The echo, the "phone." For me it stands out at the beginning of EFO. It works because it is distancing. To me it's almost clinical, like doctors are standing at a distance talking about her. Maybe they are studying her through a partition. Watching her decline.

So, it is a strange gimmick, but it worked on that song. I don't think it should be littered all over the album though.

Michele

[mitzo]

The "phone" voice is perfect on EFO, she is playing several roles in the song and the phone voice is meant to actually simulate one character talking on the phone about someone else's self-destructive affair.