Why Bob Should Be in the RARHOF

[welcomechris]

Bob’s Biggest Hit

Sentimental Lady Has Reached One Milllion Six Hundred Thirty-Four Thousand Two Hundred Seventy-Two [1634272] Views on YouTube! Sentimental Lady has been covered by Various Artists over 100 Times. It has been on Popular Soundtracks Including ‘Remember Me’ and ‘Grown Ups’. Sentimental Lady reached #8 on the Billboard Charts and gave the world the true definition of “Classic Rock”.

In 1978 Bob Welch & Friends some from Fleetwood Mac Performed at Cal Jam II

Bob Performed Some of his Best Songs from Fleetwood Mac, Paris, and His New Solo Career. He was joined on stage by Christine McVie, Stevie Nicks, and Mick Fleetwood. He Performed the hits “Hypnotized”, “Sentimental Lady”, and “Ebony Eyes” and 5 Other Songs.

He Spent 3 Years With Fleetwood Mac

Bob Also Convinced the band to move to L.A. which later introduced Buckingham Nicks to Mick Fleetwood. He Was on the Fleetwood Mac albums:

*Future Games (1971) - #91 (Billboard Top 200)

*Bare Trees (1972) - #70 (Billboard Top 200)
- Sentimental Lady - FM Radio Hit

*Penguin (1973) - #49 (Billboard Top 200)

*Mystery To Me (1973) - #67 (Billboard Top 200)
- Hypnotized - FM Radio Hit

*Heroes Are Hard to Find (1974) - #34 (Billboard Top 200)

_________________________________________________________________

Bob Welch Charts

Bob Welch: Mainstream Rock 1982

“It’s What Ya Don’t Say” - #45


Bob Welch “The Hot 100”


“Church” - #73
“Precious Love” - #19
“Hot Love, Cold World” - #31
“Ebony Eyes” - #14
“Sentimental Lady” - #8


Bob Welch “Top 200”

French Kiss - #12
Three Hearts - #20



Paris Charts

Paris Top 200

Big Towne, 2061 - #152
Paris - #103

[SteveMacD]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/0a/0a286380dee8add2e2b3516fe2b5d5cc3fe48023f3c0e1de93b5bff1992d899f.jpg

Yep.

[welcomechris]

On October 4, 2000 "Future Games" (1971 Fleetwood Mac Album) Went Gold!

On February 9, 1988 "Bare Trees" (1972 Fleetwood Mac Album) Went Platinum!

On November 9, 1976 "Mystery To Me" (1973 Fleetwood Mac Album) Went Gold!

On February 23, 1979 "Three Hearts" (1979 Bob Welch Album) Went Gold!

On May 1, 1978 "French Kiss" (1977 Bob Welch Album) Went Platinum!

In Australia and New Zealand "25 Years: The Chain" (1992 Fleetwood Mac Box Set) Went Platinum!

In The United Kingdom "25 Years: The Chain" Went Silver!

[welcomechris]

Welch was part of 7 Singles with Fleetwood Mac

One Radio Hit Fleetwood Mac and Bob Welch Had Called "Hypnotized" was Covered by Pointer Sisters in 1978 and by Sweet Baby J'ai in 2003.

In 2009, Sentimental Lady was covered by Valley Lodge on their second album Semester at Sea.

Bob's Music Still Gets Radio Airplay on FM Radio's Classic Rock Stations.

[SteveMacD]

Look, the whole Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thing is a joke to begin with.

Randy Bachman isn't in the HOF, either. He wrote These Eyes, Undone, Laughing, No Sugar Tonight/New Mother Nature, No Time, American Woman, You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, Taking Care Of Business, Let It Roll, and Let It Ride. He's not in, but Madonna and Abba are. THAT'S the organization people seem to be wasting a lot of time and a emotional energy trying to get Bob into.

Did Bob get screwed out of this moment of glory? Absolutely. He was completely disrespected. But nothing will bring that back. Even if he was inducted, they would do it quietly and just tack him on as a member of Fleetwood Mac. There would be no major public ceremony or announcement about it. Maybe a press release, and that's about all. The happy moment of glory has already passed.

I'm more upset that Bob era records are not available on iTunes and that Fleetwood Mac seems to be glossing over his time in the band more and more. THAT'S something that is legitimate cause for concern. No offense, but I'd quit wasting time on this joke of an organization that already has lost most of it's credibility within popular culture, and work harder fighting for Bob's legacy with in Fleetwood Mac. That's what people will remember years from now.

[welcomechris]

I Agree!

I'll Never Understand Why Bob didn't get in.

Sadly, Bob Has Gotten more attention after he died.

[welcomechris]

2729804 Views on YouTube for Ebony Eyes

[welcomechris]

I Made A Induct Bob into the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame Facebook Page

It has the Same link to the Petition Page on http://bobwelch.com

Here is the link to the Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Induct-Bob-Welch-Into-The-Rock-And-Roll-Hall-Of-Fame/300419283443959



Here is the link to the petition for those of you who don't you facebook. http://www.petitiononline.com/bobwelch/petition.html

[welcomechris]

Sentimental Lady Has Reached One Milllion Six Hundred Thirty-Four Thousand Two Hundred Seventy-Two [1634272] Views on YouTube! Sentimental Lady has been covered by Various Artists over 100 Times. It has been on Popular Soundtracks Including ‘Remember Me’ and ‘Grown Ups’. Sentimental Lady reached #8 on the Billboard Charts and gave the world the true definition of “Classic Rock”.

In 1978 Bob Welch & Friends some from Fleetwood Mac Performed at Cal Jam II

Bob Performed Some of his Best Songs from Fleetwood Mac, Paris, and His New Solo Career. He was joined on stage by Christine McVie, Stevie Nicks, and Mick Fleetwood. He Performed the hits “Hypnotized”, “Sentimental Lady”, and “Ebony Eyes” and 5 Other Songs.

He Spent 3 Years With Fleetwood Mac

Bob Also Convinced the band to move to L.A. which later introduced Buckingham Nicks to Mick Fleetwood. He Was on the Fleetwood Mac albums:

*Future Games (1971) - #91 (Billboard Top 200)

*Bare Trees (1972) - #70 (Billboard Top 200)
- Sentimental Lady - FM Radio Hit

*Penguin (1973) - #49 (Billboard Top 200)

*Mystery To Me (1973) - #67 (Billboard Top 200)
- Hypnotized - FM Radio Hit

*Heroes Are Hard to Find (1974) - #34 (Billboard Top 200)

_______________________________________________________

Bob Welch Charts

Bob Welch: Mainstream Rock 1982

“It’s What Ya Don’t Say” - #45

Bob Welch “The Hot 100”

“Church” - #73
“Precious Love” - #19
“Hot Love, Cold World” - #31
“Ebony Eyes” - #14
“Sentimental Lady” - #8

Bob Welch “Top 200”

French Kiss - #12
Three Hearts - #20

Paris Charts

Paris Top 200

Big Towne, 2061 - #152
Paris - #103
__________________

On October 4, 2000 "Future Games" (1971 Fleetwood Mac Album) Went Gold!

On February 9, 1988 "Bare Trees" (1972 Fleetwood Mac Album) Went Platinum!

On November 9, 1976 "Mystery To Me" (1973 Fleetwood Mac Album) Went Gold!

On February 23, 1979 "Three Hearts" (1979 Bob Welch Album) Went Gold!

On May 1, 1978 "French Kiss" (1977 Bob Welch Album) Went Platinum!

In Australia and New Zealand "25 Years: The Chain" (1992 Fleetwood Mac Box Set) Went Platinum!

In The United Kingdom "25 Years: The Chain" Went Silver!
__________________

Welch was part of 7 Singles with Fleetwood Mac

One Radio Hit Fleetwood Mac and Bob Welch Had Called "Hypnotized" was Covered by Pointer Sisters in 1978 and by Sweet Baby J'ai in 2003.

In 2009, Sentimental Lady was covered by Valley Lodge on their second album Semester at Sea.

Bob's Music Still Gets Radio Airplay on FM Radio's Classic Rock Stations.
_____________________

Bob's 1977 Hit "Ebony Eyes" 2729804 Views on YouTube

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Induct-Bob-Welch-Into-The-Rock-And-Roll-Hall-Of-Fame/300419283443959

[welcomechris]

A Picture of Bob Is Also Up

[elle]

Look, the whole Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thing is a joke to begin with.

i just listened to the radio interview with Gene Simmons the other day and he was complaining about their induction and who was invited as a member of Kiss, and who wasn't. so it looks like the band may want certain people to be inducted, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily gonna happen; although i guess maybe it depends on who knows who and who's trying to pull the strings. this article basically sums up what Gene Simmons was saying in that local radio interview:

Kiss star Gene Simmons explains why band won't play at Hall of Fame
By Justin Harp
Friday, Mar 14 2014, 11:43pm EDT

Kiss star Gene Simmons has explained why the band will not perform at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony.

The 'Calling Dr Love' band have been announced as inductees this year, alongside Nirvana, Linda Ronstadt, Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, Peter Gabriel, Cat Stevens and Hall & Oates.

ACM Awards 2012: Gene Simmons, Eric Singer, Tommy Thayer and Paul Stanley, of musical group KISS
© PA Images / Isaac Brekken/AP

It was later announced that Kiss would not perform, amid rumors that Simmons and Paul Stanley did not want to play with original members Peter Criss and Ace Frehley.

Simmons offered an explanation for the decision during an interview with Entertainment Weekly Radio.

"Paul and I got on the phone and called Ace and Peter," he recalled. "[We said] 'Hey, congratulations. It was an honor to stand alongside you then and we'll be proud to stand alongside of you at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to accept the award'."

The star continued: "And they were gracious and happy and God bless, and all of that, and we went off our separate ways. And then we found out the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame will only be honoring the original lineup with Ace, Peter, Paul and myself, and we said, 'Oh okay, then we won't be playing there. We'll just accept the award. Thank you very much'.

"And they go, 'What are you talking about?' and I said, 'Well, you have a group like the Eagles who continue to be our contemporaries… and every member that has ever been in the Eagles has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

"But you're only gonna honor the first lineup that was together for seven years? We've been around 40 years. Tommy [Thayer] and Eric [Singer] have been in the band 20 years - two and a half times longer than Ace and Peter."

He concluded: "You're going to slap them in the face and we're supposed to get you a sandwich and make sure you burp at 9.00 at night and get up on stage and do it? No, that's not going to happen."

This year's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony will be held on April 10 at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn.


Read more: http://www.digitalspy.com/music/news/a557823/kiss-star-gene-simmons-explains-why-band-wont-play-at-hall-of-fame.html#ixzz2w9QdkLx8
Follow us: @digitalspy on Twitter | digitalspyuk on Facebook

[michelej1]

^Yes, when I read about this and listened to it being discussed on the radio, I certainly thought of FM and it helped confirm for me what the RRHOF controls and what the band's involvement in the induction process is.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

^Yes, when I read about this and listened to it being discussed on the radio, I certainly thought of FM and it helped confirm for me what the RRHOF controls and what the band's involvement in the induction process is.
But then look at the Grateful Dead. Jerry Garcia insisted everybody who was ever a member of the band be inducted, which happened, and then he promptly skipped the ceremony.

[chiliD]

But then look at the Grateful Dead. Jerry Garcia insisted everybody who was ever a member of the band be inducted, which happened, and then he promptly skipped the ceremony.

And, therefore.....

......Donna Jean Godchaux is IN, Bob Welch isn't. :mad: 'Nuff said.


Or, maybe not....:shrug:

....Jann Wenner is a self-absorbed in-bred dickhead. :nod:

[mzero]

....Jann Wenner is a self-absorbed in-bred dickhead. :nod:

agreed. who doesn't know squat about music. rock and roll especially

great standup routine on the other thread cd

z

[Mr Scarrott]

And the Rolling Stones made sure that Ian Stewart got inducted, too.

http://rockhall.com/inductees/the-rolling-stones/bio/

Clearly, Bob Welch was done an insulting disservice- the band could have ensured that he was inducted. Had the lawsuit not happened, then I'm sure he would have been in.

But there is one countervailing view that amuses me slightly, from the late Bob Weston, in his Q & A , here on the Penguin.

I don't have an opinion on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thing. Of course it's great to be recognised; who wants to be ignored? (Only the famous, perhaps :).) I don't understand the method of selection, or the Hall of Fame's significance. Does one get a wax effigy, like Mme Tussauds? :)

It's a bit of a Groucho Marx response, I guess.

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=127 it's 3 questions from the bottom of the page.

[Mr Scarrott]

Just spotted, earlier on in the Q & A, Weston is asked:

7) How do you feel about being omitted from the Fleetwood Mac RRHOF roster?


He replies

Q7: RRHOF: until you mentioned it, I hadn't given it a second thought :). Perhaps you should ask Mick Fleetwood. But would he give you an answer?

[moon]

Personally, I think BOTH Bobs must be included. We can discuss if Bob Welch must enter as a FM member or for his solo career or both, but, FM was a big group, and I think that members like Bob Weston and Bob Welch would be included. And we can discuss if Rick Vito and Billy Burnette are on the same situation and if they must be included too...
Regards!
Mark.

[michelej1]

[B]KISS guitarist, drummer join list of snubs by rock hall of fame

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-kiss-rock-hall-of-fame-tommy-thayer-eric-singer-20140316,0,5844155.story#ixzz2wBumDusO


By Mike Boehm March 16, 2014, 3:45 p.m., Los Angeles Times



Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley of the rock band KISS have long cherished living in aggrieved opposition to critics who they have felt failed to respect Kiss' heavy metal oeuvre, and the band's impending induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame isn’t changing their tune.


Stanley recently complained to the Associated Press that KISS was being given short shrift by the rock hall because two members of the current four-man lineup, lead guitarist Eric Singer and drummer Tommy Thayer, aren’t going to be hall of famers, even though they “have been in the band for decades and played on multiplatinum albums and toured the world.”

Instead, original drummer Peter Criss and original lead guitarist Ace Frehley, who were part of KISS’ 1970s ascension to stardom but exited in the early 1980s, will be inducted along with perennial frontmen Simmons and Stanley.

PHOTOS: Iconic rock guitars and their owners

Stanley groused to the AP that “we have continuing issues with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, starting with the fact that they chose to induct the original lineup when that’s hardly the case with other bands.”

He cited as an example lyricist Robert Hunter’s inclusion when the Grateful Dead was inducted in 1994. To Stanley, Hunter is “a writer who never played an instrument.” Hunter, who wrote the lyrics for many of the Dead’s songs, especially those composed by Jerry Garcia, always was credited as a band member on the band’s album jackets.

The rock hall hasn’t been a model of consistency when it comes to non-original band members. In the case of the Grateful Dead, for example, its website lists four keyboard players among the inductees: original member Ron “Pigpen” McKernan and his successors, Keith Godchaux, Brent Mydland and Vince Welnick (of whom only Welnick, who died in 2006, lived to see the induction).

On the other hand, when Fleetwood Mac was inducted in 1998, singer-songwriter-guitarist Bob Welch, the first American to join the previously all-British band, and a mainstay of its middle period, was the odd man out. He was excluded, though the rock hall inducted three other former Mac singer-guitarists not named Lindsey Buckingham.

PHOTOS: Daughters of rock stars

“It basically comes down to the fact that they don’t like me anymore,” Welch, who died in 2012, told the Cleveland Plain Dealer around the time of the induction. “I could understand it if I had been a sideman for a year, but I was an integral part of that band.” Welch was a member of Fleetwood Mac for five albums during the early 1970s, including the acclaimed “Bare Trees,” helping to keep the band going until the mid-1970s arrival of Buckingham and Stevie Nicks catapulted it to superstardom.

When the Velvet Underground was inducted by the rock hall in 1996, only the four original members were included. Left out was Doug Yule, who had figured prominently on two of the band’s four canonical studio albums and on “1969: The Velvet Underground Live,” a strong double-LP issued several years after the group had disbanded.

Stanley told the Los Angeles Times recently that the impasse over not including Singer and Thayer meant that KISS would not perform at the coming induction ceremony. Elaborating in his interview with the AP, he said that the rock hall “tried to strong-arm us into playing in [the] original lineup. Their craving of nostalgia or for wanting to have us play by their rules in many ways jeopardizes what we have spent 40 years building…. Very clearly the tail doesn’t wag the dog, and KISS is a big dog, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a small tail.”


http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-kiss-rock-hall-of-fame-tommy-thayer-eric-singer-20140316,0,5844155.story#ixzz2wButhglE

[becca]

I liked Cat Stevens' music but Rock & Roll he's never been. Really... the so-called Hall Of Fame is to do with sales past, present and hoped for. For some Reason Bob Welch got on the wrong side of that, just like Bob Weston got on the wrong side of Mick Fleetwood (by getting on the right side of Jenny Boyd) and was kicked out after two albums... not even he would've said he should be included... Bob Brunning would've been more likely.

Doug Yule should have been included, great musician and person, I guess that makes him the Bob Welch of the Velvets. Maybe it was that Squeeze album without Lou? That is unforgivable though I'm not sure it was Doug's idea ever to call it a Velvet Underground album, although back then the group and it's name were barely revered by many.

That Hall (which is not Bob Hall) and it's secret masters/stakeholders mean squat to me.

[wetcamelfood]

That is unforgivable though I'm not sure it was Doug's idea ever to call it a Velvet Underground album

Yup, that was all Sesnick.

John

[SteveMacD]

Still...I'm tempted from the fruit of another.

[Wendy Welch]

I know for a fact the reason that Bob Welch was not inducted in the RRHOF:blob2::blob1: Mick called me the day that Bob died before his body even left the house and I refused to talk to him unless he told me why. He said "It was Christine McVie" and I put my friend on the phone with Mick, Mike Lawson, who was there with me as the police were still in my home. She refused to go on stage if he was inducted. It was NOT the RRHOF, but Fleetwood Mac, John, Mick and Chris who kept him out. Mick would not stand up to Christine. She did it vindictively because she was going to show him that he couldn't do what she felt was unjust to her. and I have letters and other statements to prove her vindictiveness then and now. They sounded great together, but she was always jealous that he sold more solo albums than she did, and was angry with him for other unaceptable reasons. I saw that in her at dinner one night. She was a very jealous and non-loyal person, I feel. Very
Sincerely the Truth!!! Mike Lawson is on facebook and you can ask him yourself. He is extremely honorable and reputable as you will see if you care to look.

Also, thank you for finally talking about this. It still can be changed and Bob wanted this Very Much! Welcome Chris, thank you, but one correction, Bob was in the band for five years, not three, and Christine just joined the band the year before. He wrote and sang 1/2 the songs on five albums and played guitar and sang backup on all the songs on those five albums. What's wrong with this picture?

[Wendy Welch]

Please fight for Bob and sign the papers to get him inducted and write Mick most of all. He doesn't want to be disliked for this, but he was the crucial person. After all, he told me, "it's not a matter of if, but when Bob is inducted. I do own the name Fleetwood Mac." So what has he done. Please ask him.:lol::lol::lol:

[SteveMacD]

but one correction, Bob was in the band for five years, not three, and Christine just joined the band the year before. He wrote and sang 1/2 the songs on five albums and played guitar and sang backup on all the songs on those five albums. What's wrong with this picture?
Sorry Wendy, but Bob was only in Fleetwood Mac from summer 1971 through December 31, 1974. That's 3.5 years by my math. He did not sing 1/2 the songs on all of the albums he was on. It wasn't until Mystery To Me that he became the primary writer, and even then, Christine still had four songs on the albums. Also, I don't understand why Christine joining the band a year before (although, she'd been playing with them in the studio since 1968) is less important. They could have easily done a record with that band just based on what they were playing at that time, that got nixed after Jeremy quit. Christine's presence was in full force when Bob joined.

Did Bob get screwed in 1998? Yep. Will having him inducted now change anything? Nope. Realistically, if he gets inducted, he won't even get mentioned. They'd just silently tag him on to Fleetwood Mac. At this point, that's a fool's errand. If you want to fight for Bob's legacy, get his era's songs on iTunes and insist on keeping his legacy alive within Fleetwood Mac. People won't and don't care about the Hall. Hell, many of the inductees don't care about the Hall. The most important thing to focus on is Bob's body of work.

[Wendy Welch]

Excuse me, but Bob did write or co write 1/2 the songs on the five albums he recorded with FM. The last one in 1975. Heroes are Hard to Find had 7 of the 10 songs written by him, two on the first, and the rest on the three inbetween albums. I did not say that he wrote 1/2 the songs on each album, just on the total number of cuts on all five albums. He did sing them as well. Let's not minimize his credentials.

Plus I am not fighting to get Bob in for your approval or your desire, but only because he card about it so much and was very hurt when he was left out. I don't really care about anyone else's opinion. But after 27 years of marriage, I KNOW what HE cared about.

Also, you might be interested to know that all of those albums are gold or platinum now. He was awarded Rock Radio Award for best new debut album of the year and Billboard Award for best new artist of the year in 1978 for his first solo album French Kiss. I have both of those awards in my case and multiple gold and platinum albums on my wall.

Also, I might add that I just received over 30 personal messages and posts from Bob Welch friends and fans saying they couldn't get accepted on this site. Please tell me why that would be? By the way, I have the original copyrights of the songs on that first album with the manager prior to Steve's date, and also Bob writes about when he came to London after Judy Wont brought his name up to the band and it was in the winter and he was having to put coins in the heater in his apartment every few hours to keep warm before moving to Benifold. What are your credentials anyway? Feel free to contact me in a private message on my Facebook page. Wendy Welch.1232 and we'll talk privately. I don't use a pseudonym, and I have Bob's personal writings which I might quote to you. Were you around or alive then or did you know Bob or any of the other Mac people? I would be curious. Because you are very misinformed. Just like you said, Christine played with them in the studio, you are also misinformed about when Bob was called to be in the band or decided to leave.

[chriskisn]

Also, I might add that I just received over 30 personal messages and posts from Bob Welch friends and fans saying they couldn't get accepted on this site. Please tell me why that would be?

I know that you can't join this site with a hotmail, gmail or other such emails. Plus you can only have one account here and I know Michele does look at IP Addresses. Pretty sure Michele isn't part of a greater anti-Bob Welch conspiracy.

Plus there is no point in those people coming here and telling us how great Bob was and how unfairly he has been treated. You are generally preaching to the converted here. I have all the FM albums with Bob on it, I have all the solo albums, Head West, Paris etc. (Still holding out hope for the elusive Seven Souls album but that's another issue for another day). You don't need to tell me (and plenty of others here) that Bob was a great talent.

As for why the Bob era albums aren't on iTunes, I would imagine that if Mick Fleetwood thought he could make money out of them being on there he would be pushing for it.

[mylittledemon]

Also, I might add that I just received over 30 personal messages and posts from Bob Welch friends and fans saying they couldn't get accepted on this site. Please tell me why that would be? By the way, I have the original copyrights of the songs on that first album with the manager prior to Steve's date, and also Bob writes about when he came to London after Judy Wont brought his name up to the band and it was in the winter and he was having to put coins in the heater in his apartment every few hours to keep warm before moving to Benifold. What are your credentials anyway? Feel free to contact me in a private message on my Facebook page. Wendy Welch.1232 and we'll talk privately. I don't use a pseudonym, and I have Bob's personal writings which I might quote to you. Were you around or alive then or did you know Bob or any of the other Mac people? I would be curious. Because you are very misinformed. Just like you said, Christine played with them in the studio, you are also misinformed about when Bob was called to be in the band or decided to leave.

Whole lotta stream of consciousness happening there. Wendy... look... there is absolutely no reason whatsoever as to why anyone shouldn't be able to join this site. We do not pre-screen members here. Occasionally old troublesome members return, or new members sign up with multiple user names, and we know that by their email addresses, IP locations, etc. But to say 30 people "tried to join and couldn't" and imply that there's some conspiracy here is absolute lunacy. I mean it Wendy; lunacy. It's something you've cooked up inside your own mind, or someone else has and you've chosen to put stock in, and I hate it for you because you're believing in an absolute falsehood. How would we know if someone was a Bob Welch friend or fan prior to them entering information to join the forum? And even if we did hold something against them for that reason, why deny them access to this forum? It makes no sense. We have neither the man (or woman) power, let alone the most remote of desires to conduct such behaviour. So please, I am truly being sincere when I ask that you do us as a community (and yourself) the courtesy of moving forward by ending such insinuations. SteveMacD made a great suggestion about getting Bob's work on iTunes and making the focus about his music again. Better words on the matter haven't been spoken.

[HomerMcvie]

I am FB friends with Wendy, and I will just say that I HAVE seen several people say that they tried to join the Ledge, but never got approved. And it was more than just a couple of people. Just saying...

[michelej1]

How would I even know if someone was a Bob Welch fan in order to deny them access to the site? Unless they had a user name like Welchlover, I would have no clue and I honestly have no interest in excluding them.

If I was going to conspire with Mick or the band to do something, it wouldn't be related to Bob Welch!

The truth is, the website isn't big enough to change or influence anything one way or another, so even if it was converted into a full time campaign to have Bob inducted, it would hardly make any difference to the RRHOF or to FM. There is no incentive to conspire to do anything.

Yes, people are blocked from the site for having multiple user ids, for spamming or because they never respond to verification emails, but not for any reasons having
to do with Bob Welch.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

The last one in 1975.
Nope. "Heroes Are Hard To Find" was released on September 13, 1974, three years and ten days after "Future Games." Bob quit the band sometime in December, 1974. His last show was December 1, 1974.

http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/xxgby2epqnf1qu.jpg

Let's not minimize his credentials.
His credentials shouldn't be minimized, nor should they be overstated.

Plus I am not fighting to get Bob in for your approval or your desire, but only because he card about it so much and was very hurt when he was left out. I don't really care about anyone else's opinion. But after 27 years of marriage, I KNOW what HE cared about.

That's great, Wendy. The reality is that there's a whole new generation getting interested in Fleetwood Mac who don't necessarily buy physical media. They've grown up downloading music. They can't download Bob's music. Do you understand that, Wendy? They can't (legally) download or own his music. That's destroying Bob's legacy much, much more quickly than his eye-rolling omission from a hack organization that's lost pretty much all credibility in the past ten years.

Plus, not having a new generation of fans ultimately sets what you're fighting for back. What better way to force the issue than with a new generation of fans alongside those of us who've been fans for decades.

Also, you might be interested to know that all of those albums are gold or platinum now.
After the success Fleetwood Mac started having.

What are your credentials anyway?
Well, I'm literate and know how to use a microfiche machine and the internet. I've read pretty much anything I could find on Bob and Fleetwood Mac.

Because you are very misinformed.
Like saying that Bob was still actively in the band in 1975 when Mick, Stevie, Lindsey, and I think even Keith Olsen have all said that Mick contacted Lindsey about joining the band, because Bob had left, when Lindsey and Stevie were having their New Year's Eve party. That's an easily verifiable FACT.

Just like you said, Christine played with them in the studio, you are also misinformed about when Bob was called to be in the band or decided to leave.
Christine played on 1968's "Mr. Wonderful," sang some harmony on "Then Play On," and clearly sang harmonies throughout "Kiln House." Jeremy Spencer even said that it was she, not John, who co-wrote "Station Man." So, sorry Wendy, I'm right that Christine played with them in the studio as a guest musician.

[Wendy Welch]

Must disagree with your timeline. Stevie and Lindsey were already joining the band when Bob left and Mick and FM begged him to stay too.

All of your facts are not correct because I still have the original contracts, no matter what you have read on the internet.

Also, please, I must clarify one thing to this site. I never meant to imply that only Bob's fans and friends were blocked. Just that they were the people that contacted me. I am sure there are others too. I would hope you would be a little more inclusive with all FM fans.

I have never been called a lunatic before, but that's your opinion and there's always a first time, but you can go on my facebook and see what many have said over the past 1 1/2 years about it, besides the personal messages I have received, especially just recently. So I don't believe I have made this up or that one person has made me think that quite a few people have not been accepted on The Ledge.

And if you re-read my comments previous to saying that Chris played in the band earlier, I was not saying that that was untrue. Just that most people don't know that Chris was on a few cuts and they also don't know when Bob really joined the band prior to the summer of 71 as stated. Please don't misunderstand my comments as I hope I have cleared them up above.

[chiliD]

His last show was December 1, 1974.


Ummm...no. I saw them at Long Beach Arena later than that date (I remember because it was within a couple of days of Christmas break of my 2nd year of college; but I don't recall the exact date). Climax Blues Band was the opening act. I believe it was a last minute added show, because it was announced that tickets would go on sale just a couple of days before the show.

[welcomechris]

Must disagree with your timeline. Stevie and Lindsey were already joining the band when Bob left and Mick and FM begged him to stay too.

All of your facts are not correct because I still have the original contracts, no matter what you have read on the internet.

Also, please, I must clarify one thing to this site. I never meant to imply that only Bob's fans and friends were blocked. Just that they were the people that contacted me. I am sure there are others too. I would hope you would be a little more inclusive with all FM fans.

I have never been called a lunatic before, but that's your opinion and there's always a first time, but you can go on my facebook and see what many have side over the past 1 1/2 years about it, besides the personal messages I have received, especially just recently. So I don't believe I have made this up or that one person has made me think that quite a few people have not been accepted on The Ledge.

Wendy, I'm Sorry Some People Are Treating You Like Your Just Another Person Who Knows Nothing About Bob. Stevie Herself Has Said Lindsey and Her Joined the First Day Of 1975. Mick Has Said that He Knew Bob Was Leaving So He Was Looking For A Guitar Player. I Know Fleetwood Mac was upset about Bob's Departure but Lets Face it, Even Bob Knew FM Was Going Nowhere.

Wendy, Showing Us Pictures of Some of the Contracts Would Be Great. We Would Love if You Wrote A Book About it too.

[SteveMacD]

Ummm...no. I saw them at Long Beach Arena later than that date (I remember because it was within a couple of days of Christmas break of my 2nd year of college; but I don't recall the exact date). Climax Blues Band was the opening act. I believe it was a last minute added show, because it was announced that tickets would go on sale just a couple of days before the show.
Interesting. I was just going by the calendar on the tour poster. I wonder if that show was when things went down between Bob and the band.

[wetcamelfood]

From Page 3 of Bob's 1999 Q&A here:

I was reading one of the (unfortunately few) articles on the Penguin, and one of them made reference to Lindsey and Stevie's joining the band while you were still a part of it. Had you already left the band by the time L&S joined? I know you eventually worked with them, but when did you actually meet Lindsey and Stevie? (Tracy G., Stockbridge, Georgia, USA)

I "hemmed and hawed for months about whether or not I would leave FM... John Mc Vie said, " Bob it'll be the biggest mistake you'll ever make." Everybody knew that we had to find some new creative "juice". Mick had gone out to check out studios to do the next album after "Heroes..." while I was still hemming and hawing. At "Sound City" studios is where somebody played him a tape of Stevie and Lindsey as "Bucking-Ham Nicks". Mick told me about hearing their tape, and how good they were etc. At that point I could've chosen to stay in FM, and add Stevie and Lindsey to the line up. It wasn't like anybody was ASKING me to leave, and there was a moment that I thought about staying.

In case it helps? :)

John

[SteveMacD]

Must disagree with your timeline. Stevie and Lindsey were already joining the band when Bob left and Mick and FM begged him to stay too.
They hadn't been formally asked to join until Bob actually quit, and the one constant that is mentioned by pretty much everyone (i.e. Rolling Stone interviews from 1975, autobiographies, countless interviews) is that it was New Years Eve, 1974. Now, maybe he was technically still contractually a member of the band when Stevie and Lindsey joined, but that's minutia. Lindsey got the call at that moment because Bob had quit the band.

And, yes, I'm sure Bob knew Mick wanted to hire Lindsey, and I'm sure there was a period after Bob served notice that he was still being asked to stay in the band.

and they also don't know when Bob really joined the band prior to the summer of 71 as stated.
Okay, Spring of 1971. Fleetwood Mac were on the road until sometime in late March/early April, 1971 with Peter Green helping them out, and the first show with Bob (per Mick's book) was June 4, 1971. So, Bob joined I'm guessing sometime in April or May, leaning more towards April to give them time to learn new material.

But, you have the contracts. What dates do you have that are different from everyone else?

[aleuzzi]

The suggestion to lobby for the 71-74 albums on iTunes is a good one.

I keep waiting for a young musician or group of musicians to reinterpret Bob's material in a contemporary context.

[Wendy Welch]

I also have to clarify one thing. Mick's book was just a shmooze and a coverup in some places. It was not written by him but by another. Bob and I were living together when the writer contacted Bob and didn't use a lot of what he said and changed a lot. It made Bob a bit angry. Most of all he was angry about what they said at the end of the book that Bob was writing for films and movie scores. Straight up lie! He was proud of the fact that he was starting a new band called "The Touch" with Dallas Taylor, the drummer from Crosby Still Nash & Young and others that played out and was managed by Noel Monk, the prior manager of Van Halen. Bob couldn't understand why they would make that up about films and not say what he was really doing.

As you all probably know, Mick is dyslexic, and that is not a put down, just a fact. Bob used to have to look up things in the phone book for him because he couldn't get what words were in alphabetical order, and that is a common disorder that can be overcome. Mick never did overcome that and God Bless him has been very successful inspite of his handicap. But he did not write that book, nor could he have probably read it.
:angel:

Also, Bob has written a book that I have in his own words, not mine. That is where I get most of my info from and also from hearing his stories for over 27 years. If I can ever get all of his business and publishing unraveled so I can move on with my life, I intend that to be my first project. As far as I tunes is concerned, he does have many songs on UTube, I tunes, etc. that can be downloaded. But the record companies have control over that, not myself or Mick or FM. The music business is very complicated. FM has to OK it, but the record company has to want to do it first. And I am no newcomer to the industry!

[becca]

Print ads and posters from the '60s and '70s often were and are wrong. I remember some book with all sorts of absolute facts based on old Marquee listings and how they were not absolute facts with printed proof from the time period. For many reasons planned appearances do not go off today. There was a great book on Liverpool's Cavern and who played there when that was pretty much totally accurate because it had a lot of input from people who were there and remembered when the printed pieces of paper were not reflective of the eventual reality that occurred. Then again, people's memories can also be wrong both individually and collectively, always best to have some caution when using facts as weapons I think... but then I've been criticized for saying things such as 'I think' or 'it seems'. (Cue the The Gambler by Kenny Rogers here).

It's painful to see people who genuinely love music and musicians upset like this. It's painful that Bob Welch was disrespected and continues to be disrespected by a few people in positions of power. I'm glad the Ventures got to play and were inducted back when they were, before it was too late. This is what is wrong though in taking something (like surfing also) which should be totally individual and artistic and make it into yet another crummy judged competition with awards and winners and losers. It brings out the worst in some people be they Christine or some extreme fans or a bunch of bean counters in offices. :(

[Wendy Welch]

SteveMacD, I owe you an apology. You are absolutely right about the release date of "Heroes". I am so sorry, I got confused over the fact that it was five albums and not five years. Please accept my apology. But still, I must say you are wrong about Bob's start date with FM and the date he left. But I am so glad that someone that was born three years after Bob was in Fm is such a fan.

At least give me credit for being the only wife, girlfriend or FM member that has her own site run by him or herself that knew the players and will at least engage with you, even though I do make mistakes sometimes. All the rest I stand by, and will answer the questions you have to the best of my knowledge .:sorry:

[mylittledemon]

I have never been called a lunatic before, but that's your opinion and there's always a first time


Wendy please don't mistake me... Regarding people who were not able to join The Ledge, you specifically asked the question "Now why would that be?"... the insinuation of which is that we're keeping Bob Welch fans off this site. That is lunacy.

But you can go on my facebook and see what many have said over the past 1 1/2 years about it, besides the personal messages I have received, especially just recently. So I don't believe I have made this up or that one person has made me think that quite a few people have not been accepted on The Ledge.


Why would I search through 18 months of your Facebook postings? To what end? I never said I didn't believe you. If we're only talking 30 people over an 18 month period who've not been able to join, I wouldn't call that an aberration... I'd call it pretty average stats for a message board of this size. Feel free to direct such complaints to me or any of the moderators here so we can get people on board who wish to be.

[elle]

The suggestion to lobby for the 71-74 albums on iTunes is a good one.

The reality is that there's a whole new generation getting interested in Fleetwood Mac who don't necessarily buy physical media. They've grown up downloading music. They can't download Bob's music.

As far as I tunes is concerned, he does have many songs on UTube, I tunes, etc. that can be downloaded. But the record companies have control over that, not myself or Mick or FM. The music business is very complicated. FM has to OK it, but the record company has to want to do it first. And I am no newcomer to the industry!

if Bob's music is available on youtube, then it's available to new generations and people can download it, although it may not be the cleanest versions. but still, there's no reason to have it specifically on itunes. :nod:

[welcomechris]

Most of Bob's Solo Work Is on Itunes.

No FM Albums From 1971-1974 Are On Itunes (In the US)

PS I So Happy To Be An Addicted Ledgie!

[Wendy Welch]

Wendy please don't mistake me... Regarding people who were not able to join The Ledge, you specifically asked the question "Now why would that be?"... the insinuation of which is that we're keeping Bob Welch fans off this site. That is lunacy.



Why would I search through 18 months of your Facebook postings? To what end? I never said I didn't believe you. If we're only talking 30 people over an 18 month period who've not been able to join, I wouldn't call that an aberration... I'd call it pretty average stats for a message board of this size. Feel free to direct such complaints to me or any of the moderators here so we can get people on board who wish to be.

Actually the 30 people have been in the last week on my facebook, both public and personal messages. "Why would that be?" is only asking the question, why can't they get on "The Ledge"? and what can I do to help them?

[SteveMacD]

SteveMacD, I owe you an apology. You are absolutely right about the release date of "Heroes". I am so sorry, I got confused over the fact that it was five albums and not five years. Please accept my apology.
Accepted. I get that there's frustration with all of this.

But still, I must say you are wrong about Bob's start date with FM and the date he left.
Well, what ARE the dates? I've ventured to guess Bob joined sometime between late March to early May, without ever having seen a specific date, based solely on the FACT that Peter Green was with them until at least last March to finish the "Kiln House" tour, and that Bob's first gig was in very early June. That doesn't leave a whole lot of time, a month or two at most, which borders on minutiae. Bottom line: we fans know that Peter was playing with them in late winter/early spring and that Bob was playing live with them in early June. So, sometime between those two events Bob must've joined.

As for when he left, I'm not backing down on that one. Bob never played or had any intentions of playing with Fleetwood Mac as a member after December 31, 1974, which is the date they asked Lindsey and Stevie to join. If there's any proof to suggest otherwise, I'd love to see it. If there's anything to suggest Bob had any intentions of being in the band with Buckingham and Nicks, please show it.

[aleuzzi]

^^^so, to return to the original point of contention, Bob's tenure with Fleetwood Mac lasted anywhere from 3.5 to 3.75 years, which is what you surmised earlier.

Anyway one slices it, Bob accomplished A LOT in those years. Five albums and five or six tours in 3.5 years is incredible.

He wrote 20 originals, sang lead on as many songs (not including Keep On Going, but including his cover vocal of For Your Love), and was active in the production, the arrangements, the band's live presence, and eventually its management. A hell of a legacy.

Neither those 71-74 records nor his solo work would have likely surpassed the 300,000 sales mark without the sudden resurgence of the band in 75-76, but there's no question he contributed mightily to the Mac and kept the flame lit. I would be shocked if anyone who visits this site would disagree with that conclusion.

Again, the suggestion to work at getting the 71-74 material available on iTunes is excellent.

[elle]

Again, the suggestion to work at getting the 71-74 material available on iTunes is excellent.

and how would you all suggest to go about it, and who should do it? Mick? i have a feeling WBs are not big on listening to their artists. :shrug:

[elle]

Bob never played or had any intentions of playing with Fleetwood Mac as a member after December 31, 1974, which is the date they asked Lindsey and Stevie to join. If there's any proof to suggest otherwise, I'd love to see it. If there's anything to suggest Bob had any intentions of being in the band with Buckingham and Nicks, please show it.

i love this discussion actually. especially considering that Mick, Keith Olsen, Christine, Lindsey and Stevie all seem to have slightly different versions, embellished for better story-telling effect. Wendy says something a bit different now.

so is all we have to go on for what we thought happened their stories or there is something else too?

[aleuzzi]

and how would you all suggest to go about it, and who should do it? Mick? i have a feeling WBs are not big on listening to their artists. :shrug:

I am not sure. But if Bob himself was able to get a lot of his solo material on iTunes, I'm sure the band, if they pressed for it, could get the 71-74 material on.

There would have to be some pressure put on Fleetwood and the McVies to do this. Particularly Mick. I think that undertaking would be more worthwhile for Bib's legacy than the RRHOF situation.

That said, if the band changed its mind and asked for Bob to be included retroactively, I'd be thrilled to hear it.

[sharksfan2000]

I am not sure. But if Bob himself was able to get a lot of his solo material on iTunes, I'm sure the band, if they pressed for it, could get the 71-74 material on.
FWIW, Then Play On and Kiln House are not on iTunes either, so it's not as if there is some kind of effort just to keep out the albums that Bob Welch played on. But I have no idea what the reason is that all these albums are not available on iTunes.

[aleuzzi]

FWIW, Then Play On and Kiln House are not on iTunes either, so it's not as if there is some kind of effort just to keep out the albums that Bob Welch played on. But I have no idea what the reason is that all these albums are not available on iTunes.

True. I think it's a Warner issue. There is a lot of music from 68-70 but it's all non Warner's.

[SteveMacD]

True. I think it's a Warner issue. There is a lot of music from 68-70 but it's all non Warner's.
It could also be a Clifford-Mich issue. "Penguin" and MTM were, respectively, the last two albums from the Warner's vault to be reissued on CD back in the very early 1990s.

Still, that's where I see the good fight being.

[mylittledemon]

"Why would that be?" is only asking the question

Well it isn't just that... which is why I wanted to make it clear. I know it isn't just that because you stated in the past that "Fleetwood Mac runs this site"... which simply isn't true. We have no directive, input, and/or involvement whatsoever from the band or anyone associated with them. We all love Bob, so there's no one here with an agenda behind the scenes hindering you, nor hindering Bob's legacy, or any such thing of that sort. Sweet? Good stuff.

[SteveMacD]

i love this discussion actually. especially considering that Mick, Keith Olsen, Christine, Lindsey and Stevie all seem to have slightly different versions, embellished for better story-telling effect. Wendy says something a bit different now.
The one constant, though, is everybody else has maintained that it was New Years Eve, 1974. After that, Bob wasn't really part of the Mac's equation.

[elle]

The one constant, though, is everybody else has maintained that it was New Years Eve, 1974. After that, Bob wasn't really part of the Mac's equation.

weren't they all saying forever that they met just once in some mexican restaurant and that was it - one phone call one mexican restaurant meet and they were in... but then Christine recently said that they actually had 2 meetings, once in that mexican restaurant and once at Mick's (i think?) house? and i can't really remember exactly, but i think these 2 meetings were not at exact NYE timeline that we were hearing about forever?

[SteveMacD]

I've never understood the meetings themselves to be on New Year's Eve. Just that they got the call on NYE. And, the way I understood Christine's comments is that Stevie and Lindsey met at Mick's house before they went to the Mexican restaurant, which is different from the other accounts, but not that different. In all cases, Bob was out on NYE, 1974.

[Wendy Welch]

I want to make it very clear that I NEVER said that Fleetwood Mac ran this site. Anyone that says that should show me where I said it.

Also in England you should be advised that Reprise Records was Warner Brothers!

[michelej1]

I want to make it very clear that I NEVER said that Fleetwood Mac ran this site. Anyone that says that should show me where I said it.



You said it here.

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=1107139&postcount=2

Why would they close y thread for Bob being regarding Bob being deleted by FM when so many had responses to make. Does tht not tell you who is discrediting who. They must even own this site as well, or why would thread have been closed? Ask yourselves that question. Also, all other sites of FM have deleted Bob Welch's credentials. Doesn't that make you see things in the real light of day/11

[Wendy Welch]

I personally believe that Warner's has not released those songs from '68 to 74 because they have a boxed set to sell and until that's done , those songs won't be released.

I also must add that Clifford Davis/Adams has no control over the masters being released on I tunes or any other form of download.

[welcomechris]

I personally believe that Warner's has not released those songs from '68 to 74 because they have a boxed set to sell and until that's done , those songs won't be released.

I also must add that Clifford Davis/Adams has no control over the masters being released on I tunes or any other form of download.

Well I Highly Doubt it's Warners Fault! Fleetwood Mac Wants To Get Rid of the 1971-1974 Era.

To Mick, There Was 2 Eras. Of Fleetwood Mac

Blues Era
Rumours Era


Sadly, Not One of Bob's Singles with FM Charted

[aleuzzi]

^^^And Warner's does not control a good bulk of the blues-era stuff.

[Wendy Welch]

Who do you think controls it!

[Wendy Welch]

Who do you think controls it, if not Warner's /Reprise?

[SteveMacD]

Who do you think controls it, if not Warner's /Reprise?
I think the blues era material is actually owned by Sony. It was on Blue Horizon, which was a subsidiary of CBS. CBS is now a part of Sony. The first two Fleetwood Mac records released in the United States were on Epic. After the label went defunct in 1971, and Fleetwood Mac became superstars in 1975, Squire Records, which is a subsidiary of Warners, released the recordings in the United States only. I think the mechanicals are still owned by Mike Vernon from Blue Verizon.

[sharksfan2000]

I think the blues era material is actually owned by Sony. It was on Blue Horizon, which was a subsidiary of CBS. CBS is now a part of Sony. The first two Fleetwood Mac records released in the United States were on Epic. After the label went defunct in 1971, and Fleetwood Mac became superstars in 1975, Squire Records, which is a subsidiary of Warners, released the recordings in the United States only. I think the mechanicals are still owned by Mike Vernon from Blue Verizon.
FWIW, the "Complete Blue Horizon Sessions" box set looks like it was a joint release by Sire (which is owned by Warner) and Blue Horizon. The box states "Marketed and distributed by Sire Records Inc. under exclusive license for the USA and Canada," although the individual CDs state "Blue Horizon Records for the USA and Canada and Sony Music Enertainment (UK) Ltd. for the world outside the USA and Canada."

The collection of the band's three Blue Horizon albums here is listed under Sony UK:
www.amazon.com/Original-Album-Classics-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B0030BCCB6/

Similarly, The Best of Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac was released under the Columbia Europe label, which is owned by Sony:
www.amazon.com/The-Best-Peter-Greens-Fleetwood/dp/B000075AJ1/
...although this collection also includes some tracks from their Warner releases, presumably licensed from them to appear on this collection.

And then other releases from the Peter Green period have come out on other labels including Castle, Snapper, and Receiver.

Don't know if that makes things more clear or just the opposite!

[Wendy Welch]

Right now I am just trying to find out who is being paid publishing for Bob's first four albums with FM. All the companies I have contacted deny ownership, including the one listed on ASCAP. It has been a nightmare for me, and very difficult to close probate without it. If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them. I've been to Europe and back.

Everytime I get on a roll, I get sick again, and am doing everything myself. I just had heart surgery again about 3 weeks ago, and was hospitalized with heart failure and copd a year ago last November and two weeks after Bob died, I caught pneumonia and had two relapses all the way thru September leaving me on 24 hour oxygen. I don't talk about my health much, but actually I could use all the help I can get with this publishing problem. It's very difficult to pay attorneys right now since I have not been able to close probate and get the money out yet.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm sorry, Wendy, that you're having to try to deal with all this legal stuff...

And to say that I(or most of us, or "you" even) have ANY clue on dealing with all the legal mumbo jumbo. Especially given your health concerns lately. I know it's frustrating....I'm sorry. I hope it gets better, and some resolution is found, soon.

[iamnotafraid]

Is there a more shady business than the music business?

Elvis Presley Enterprises (E.P.E) have been in a constant fight
with the record companies since Elvis died. The argument
seems to stem from artist(s) not having foreseen of what is
now legal downloading of their music. They signed away
something that was not in existence when the contracts
were originally signed.

E.P.E. has won some of these cases domestically. Now they're
going after some European record companies. This case, if won
will not only benefit Elvis' heirs, but many other artists and their
families.

These cases take time and much money. Wendy, you hang in
there. I hope you get what you deserve. And that includes peace
of mind.

[DanR53]

Personally, I want to think "What's the big deal?" The R & R Hall of fame has numerous 'snubs' including the previously mentioned Doug Yule (which is ridiculous) and the fact that they decided to wait a year to induct The Dave Clark Five so they could induct a hip hop group or someone of that nature, while Mike Smith (their lead singer) passed away in the meantime missing his last time in the spotlight. The R & R Hall of Fame is a (you-know-what) stain according to Johnny Rotten and I happen to agree. So, Bob Welch isn't the only one who had been snubbed. All that being said, if it was his wish to be in the Hall, I fully support and hope for the best regarding Wendy Welch's crusade to get him in. I imagine it will happen one day when Christine is no longer needed by Mick, probably when the band hangs it up for good.

[Wendy Welch]

But that won't happen anytime soon.

It was not so much about the Hall of Fame, but the fact that she didn't want him in vindictively and Mick went along with it. That is what hurt Bob. It was NOT:shrug: the HofF that didn't let him in, but his own band. Disgraceful and very hurtful to Bob who was always so loyal to them.

[SteveMacD]

But that won't happen anytime soon.

It was not so much about the Hall of Fame, but the fact that she didn't want him in vindictively and Mick went along with it. That is what hurt Bob. It was NOT:shrug: the HofF that didn't let him in, but his own band. Disgraceful and very hurtful to Bob who was always so loyal to them.
Wendy, I understand what you are saying. And, I kind of agree with it. However, I also understand why Christine would have been miffed by the lawsuit, and not wanted Bob anywhere near the ceremony.

At the end of the day, the six people who were on the stage were the hit makers for the band. However, in light of the Kiss induction, I'm not sure how much influence the band actually had. So Christine said that she would not go up on stage with Bob. Whatever. I'm not sure he was actually ever going to be inducted. I'm not sure I really care what Mick says at this point.

By the way, I am the one who broke to the Fleetwood Mac newsgroup at the time that Bob Welch and the others were not going to be included, and it really pissed me off. I had a weird hunch he'd be left out based on other bands, such as Jefferson Airplane. The Hall of Fame is a joke.

[jeremy spencer]

If the RRHOF is what some people are saying it is, why is there so much clamouring for its imprimatur?

[welcomechris]

If the RRHOF is what some people are saying it is, why is there so much clamouring for its imprimatur?

I Believe Some People (Wendy Welch, etc.) Feel Better If He's Included Too.

Of Course, You Were Included Because You Were A Founder and You Were Part of The Very Popular Blues Era. Of Fleetwood Mac.


(PS Jeremy, LOVE Your New Album!)

[SteveMacD]

If the RRHOF is what some people are saying it is, why is there so much clamouring for its imprimatur?
Because it used to be amazing. The induction ceremonies were epic moments in the pantheon of rock history.

But then a long series of snubs ensued, and it's become a huge punchline ever since.

[iamnotafraid]

But then a long series of snubs ensued, and it's become a huge punchline ever since.

I think it's more of "who" they've included that make it such a joke.

[Wendy Welch]

:blob2: You say Chris was mad, Steve MacD? You must be kidding, it was Bob that Probably had a right and was furious at what was done before. Don't you think he should have been if you should dig a little deeper? Obviously I can't comment past the original lawsuit that was in public domaine, but I wish I could!

[SteveMacD]

:blob2: You say Chris was mad, Steve MacD? You must be kidding, it was Bob that Probably had a right and was furious at what was done before. Don't you think he should have been if you should dig a little deeper? Obviously I can't comment past the original lawsuit that was in public domaine, but I wish I could!

To be clear, I am not saying Bob didn't have a good reason or right to sue or to be angry with them. I sympathize more with Bob on that than the band. However I could see where they might not especially like somebody after being sued by them, and, one of the three people who may have had an issue with Bob at the time was basically a member or an associate of the band from the very beginning. You are reacting to the details of the case, which as you noted, are not public information. I'm just examining typical human behavior.

However, in light of what happened with the Kiss induction, I really don't know how much input the band actually had. Fleetwood Mac was eligible for induction in 1992, but it didn't happen for them for six years after the fact. I suspect they were just happy to be inducted at all at that point, and it was decided that they would not fight for any of the other members of the band who were wrongly excluded from induction, but especially one that just sued them. I am definitely not saying that was right, I'm just trying to give a possible explanation to the situation in light of recent events.

[cabwinn]

Yes he should definitley be included!!!!!! Please do so for his legacy!!!



Bob’s Biggest Hit

Sentimental Lady Has Reached One Milllion Six Hundred Thirty-Four Thousand Two Hundred Seventy-Two [1634272] Views on YouTube! Sentimental Lad11111!!!!!y has been covered by Various Artists over 100 Times. It has been on Popular Soundtracks Including ‘Remember Me’ and ‘Grown Ups’. Sentimental Lady reached #8 on the Billboard Charts and gave the world the true definition of “Classic Rock”.

In 1978 Bob Welch & Friends some from Fleetwood Mac Performed at Cal Jam II

Bob Performed Some of his Best Songs from Fleetwood Mac, Paris, and His New Solo Career. He was joined on stage by Christine McVie, Stevie Nicks, and Mick Fleetwood. He Performed the hits “Hypnotized”, “Sentimental Lady”, and “Ebony Eyes” and 5 Other Songs.

He Spent 3 Years With Fleetwood Mac

Bob Also Convinced the band to move to L.A. which later introduced Buckingham Nicks to Mick Fleetwood. He Was on the Fleetwood Mac albums:

*Future Games (1971) - #91 (Billboard Top 200)

*Bare Trees (1972) - #70 (Billboard Top 200)
- Sentimental Lady - FM Radio Hit

*Penguin (1973) - #49 (Billboard Top 200)

*Mystery To Me (1973) - #67 (Billboard Top 200)
- Hypnotized - FM Radio Hit

*Heroes Are Hard to Find (1974) - #34 (Billboard Top 200)

_________________________________________________________________

Bob Welch Charts

Bob Welch: Mainstream Rock 1982

“It’s What Ya Don’t Say” - #45


Bob Welch “The Hot 100”


“Church” - #73
“Precious Love” - #19
“Hot Love, Cold World” - #31
“Ebony Eyes” - #14
“Sentimental Lady” - #8


Bob Welch “Top 200”

French Kiss - #12
Three Hearts - #20



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[Wendy Welch]

They did not have to fight to get somebody in the RRHOF. Chris fought to keep somebody out of the FM RRHOF. That's a fact!
:shrug:

[chriskisn]

They did not have to fight to get somebody in the RRHOF. Chris fought to keep somebody out of the FM RRHOF. That's a fact!
:shrug:

I've been watching this conversation for the past few months and I can't help but think that while Christine might have said "If Bob's there I'm not going", it didn't sound like she was the one keeping him out. If anything it was Mick who turned around and said "Well Christine won't come if Bob's there and Christine must be there, so keep Bob out."

Just because Mick said to you that it was Christine's fault just sounds like Mick trying to deflect the blame onto someone else. It was Christine's right not to turn up, it was only because Mick wanted her there more than he wanted Bob that he didn't stand up to her.

Should Bob be inducted? Of course, we've said that time and time again, but I'm not sure that it is going to happen unless someone can actually talk to Mick about it (and I don't mean you Wendy, because he's just going to avoid the question) and make Mick want to push the issue (there is no saying that the RRHOF will actually do it even if Mick was on our side).

Perhaps when FM start touring again and the fans start hanging around trying to talk to the band members, it should be a question that is asked again and again. Why isn't Bob in the HOF and what is being done about it.

Alternatively, does anyone have a personal email address for Mick?

[HomerMcvie]

"Well Christine won't come if Bob's there and Christine must be there, so keep Bob out."

Just because Mick said to you that it was Christine's fault just sounds like Mick trying to deflect the blame onto someone else. It was Christine's right not to turn up, it was only because Mick wanted her there more than he wanted Bob that he didn't stand up to her.


Mick only cares about one thing, and that's his wallet. If Chris said it, he only saw $$$$ sign for his wallet, agreeing with her.

WHAT financial gain did Mick have to gain from Bob, at that point?


Just sayin', Mick Fleetwood is the hooker of FM.

[jeremy spencer]

I finally have to say at this point, having read a lot of presumptuous slurs against and slagging of Mick Fleetwood on this early years forum, some from people who hardly know him or don't even know him at all, that I have only known him to be a good, caring and generous man; giving to his own hurt while not making a big show of it.

[Mr Scarrott]

Hi Jeremy, thanks for your balanced and informed comment. I just wondered if your induction mattered much to you? Here in the UK, I'm not sure I fully understand the Hall's significance. Like Bob Weston said, maybe half-jokingly, does one get a wax effigy? Forgive me being presumptious, but I get the impression that theres' a whole heap of stuff that would matter far more to you.

Kind Regards.

[chriskisn]

I finally have to say at this point, having read a lot of presumptuous slurs against and slagging of Mick Fleetwood on this early years forum, some from people who hardly know him or don't even know him at all, that I have only known him to be a good, caring and generous man; giving to his own hurt while not making a big show of it.

Well from my point of view, it wasn't necessarily about the money, it was just simply that if Christine did say she wouldn't be there if Bob was there, then Mick obviously wanted Christine there more than he wanted Bob there. Whatever those reasons were (perhaps for financial reasons, perhaps for the band, we may never know).

As for the negative comments about Mick, what we see is the public persona, which has often come across as being focused on the money. You know him privately better than any of us, but sadly that isn't the side the fans get to see (and it isn't just Mick, it has been a band problem for Fleetwood Mac since the late 1970's).

We want artists to release the music because of their love of the music and their love of the fans that support them. We've seen that from a lot of ex-Fleetwood Mac members, Bob Welch and yourself included (and Dave W, Bekka, Billy, Rick, Peter and others).

[wetcamelfood]

Well from my point of view, it wasn't necessarily about the money, it was just simply that if Christine did say she wouldn't be there if Bob was there, then Mick obviously wanted Christine there more than he wanted Bob there. Whatever those reasons were (perhaps for financial reasons, perhaps for the band, we may never know).

As for the negative comments about Mick, what we see is the public persona, which has often come across as being focused on the money. You know him privately better than any of us, but sadly that isn't the side the fans get to see (and it isn't just Mick, it has been a band problem for Fleetwood Mac since the late 1970's).

We want artists to release the music because of their love of the music and their love of the fans that support them. We've seen that from a lot of ex-Fleetwood Mac members, Bob Welch and yourself included (and Dave W, Bekka, Billy, Rick, Peter and others).

Agreed, though not sure on Peter as he was used (in the 80s and for the PGSG).

John

[chriskisn]

Agreed, though not sure on Peter as he was used (in the 80s and for the PGSG).

John

I've always been curious as to whether Peter was used in the early days of the PGSG. I kind of think that in the beginning Peter was just enjoying playing and Nigel as his friend helped nurture that along. Then after a little while perhaps Nigel (and probably others) got a little bit too accustomed to the lifestyle and the money. I do believe that Peter, at least in the beginning, was probably enjoying himself.

Further to what I said before, I think most fans expect that the artist needs to make a living from their music. We know that they don't just do it for the love, they do actually need to put food on the table too. I just think when some artists from FM hit the big time they kind of forget the music and fans and start only seeing the dollar signs.

[Wendy Welch]

What's the point, Jeremy. Do you even talk to Mick. Is he trying to get you back in the band. You know better, as I do. He always got more money than the other members of the band from Clifford Davis/Adams, saying it was because he had children and they didn't. Have you forgotten that?

I know Mick and have spoken to him many times. How long has it been since you spoke to him and how many times in the past 40 years? Just curious. I don't think it has been many times at all from what I understand. And wasn't the first time you spoke to Mick after all those years for "Man of the World: Peter Green", which was only a four or five years ago. You deserted the band in LA in February 1971 to join the Children of god and are still associated with them, for which you said you regretted treating them that way, as you should. Peter Green attempted to finish the tour and Bob joined the band at the same time to replace you.

Also, if you care to reach me privately in a message, I will be glad to talk to you in a private way. You can find me on facebook.

[Wendy Welch]

Also, as far as Peter Greenbaum ( his real name) did become schizophrenic and when I spoke to him when he had gotten out of the institute after over a decade, he was being used and living with Midge or is it Mitch, Clifford Davis' ex wife. He was under her control and very much being used by her and controlled by her and others. He was truly an innocent child. I spoke to him for over an hour or so in the late '90's and he definitely was not right, but he moved me. I so wanted to help him. If anyone didn't play music for money it was him. He pulled a gun on either the manager or the accountant, not sure which, if he sent him another check. He did not want his checks for his royalties and didn't believe in it in his mind space. He also could not concentrate enough to play with the other musicians in the band because he mentally just couldn't follow thru with it and would go off into tangents. I know Mick idolized Peter Green and gave him every chance he could. Peter was a genius, borderline. His song is still my favorite FM song, "Oh, Well". The song , his guitar playing and the lyrics were sheer genius, but he was so used and abused by so many. Ir is very sad. "Don't ask me what I think of you. I might not give the answer that you want me to. I talk to God and I know he understand. He said stick by me and I'll be your guiding hand." Who could say so much in such few words? God bless Peter Greene.

That's why Bob was urgently called by Judy Wong to move to England and join the band in February when Jeremy left FM in such a bind.

[jeremy spencer]

What's the point, Jeremy. Do you even talk to Mick. Is he trying to get you back in the band. You know better, as I do. He always got more money than the other members of the band from Clifford Davis/Adams, saying it was because he had children and they didn't. Have you forgotten that?

I know Mick and have spoken to him many times. How long has it been since you spoke to him and how many times in the past 40 years? Just curious. I don't think it has been many times at all from what I understand. And wasn't the first time you spoke to Mick after all those years for "Man of the World: Peter Green", which was only a four or five years ago. You deserted the band in LA in February 1971 to join the Children of god and are still associated with them, for which you said you regretted treating them that way, as you should. Peter Green attempted to finish the tour and Bob joined the band at the same time to replace you.

Also, if you care to reach me privately in a message, I will be glad to talk to you in a private way. You can find me on facebook.

I keep up regular communications with Mick and John by phone and email. My wife and I spent a wonderful time with Mick in Dublin recently just before Christmas.

[dansven]

What's the point, Jeremy. Do you even talk to Mick. Is he trying to get you back in the band.

Mick has been pushing the idea of an "Original Fleetwood Mac" reunion ever since Peter and Jeremy did their "comebacks" in the late 1990s and 2000s. There are several interviews that can confirm that.
http://www.k-hits.com/musicnews/story.aspx?ID=1186831
The thing is that Jeremy and/or Peter didn't want to do it.

[THD]

He (Mick) always got more money than the other members of the band from Clifford Davis/Adams, saying it was because he had children and they didn't. Have you forgotten that?



Could you elaborate on this please Wendy ?

Mick surely didn't get any songwriting royalties (unless some exceptionally democratic special arrangemet was made **)He surely wouldn't have got a higher percentage than the others from record sales ,as royalties from these would be split equally and if they werent it would be very dodgy So was it the money from touring ? And I would say ,that seeing as McVie and Fleetwood were not composers, they would have earned far less money than the other members of the band -the songwriters (unless ,as I said, some exceptional arrangement was made )and therefore may have had a valid case that they needed more money ?

** I read somewherr that Brian Epstien arranged for George Harrison and Ringo Starr to Split 5% of Lennon and McCarney's 40% when they made the original deal with Northern songs (just to be clear independent of Harrison's own songwriting)

[THD]

[QUOTE=THD;1124577]touring ? And I would say ,that seeing as McVie and Fleetwood were not composers, they would have earned far less money than the other members of the band -the songwriters (unless ,as I said, some exceptional arragement was made )and therefore may have had a valid case that they needed more money ?

I forgot to add :

As we now know from the many documentaries about rock bands of the last forty years (Eagles ,Spandeau Ballet etc ), many bands split or continue struggling on, but with the band members hating each other , once it dawns on the non composing members just how much money the writers are getting in as a result of composing the songs - money from airplays round the world in addition to the performing on record money If the song is covered by another artist** that artists airplay and record sales all over the world can generate huge sums -other band members don't get that and it can be the root of great resentment !

** Santana band's coverage of Black magic Woman would be a classic example of this -Peter getting huge amounts of money as the writer -feeling very guilty about it (for his own reasons ) McVie , Spencer and Fleetwood, getting none of it (the Santana generated money ) unless Peter decided to privately give them some share of it !(Which he may have done for all I know !) That's the recipe for the break up of the original line up of this band but it broke up for possibly the antithesis of this, and not until they had reached (in my opinion )A great artistic peak prior to Peter's quiting !

[Wendy Welch]

Bands would be nothing without good songs. Even Stevie and other greats pay writers for some of the songs they sing and gladly. The songs make the band. If the band or an artist wants to write a song, then write. But don't expect to get paid for another's work, but as a matter of fact on Heroes and certain other FM songs the band did share in the publishing at one time. Surprise! Prior to that the manager owned 1/2 of all the songs from each writer and still does with Bob's early Mac songs today.

[cabwinn]

Bob Welch, a former member of Fleetwood Mac who also had a solo career, died Thursday of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, police said. He was 65.

Officers were called to Mr. Welch's home on West Oak Highland Drive at 12:18 p.m. after the musician's wife discovered his body, Metro police spokesman Don Aaron said.

"He died from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest," Aaron said. "A suicide note was found in the residence."

Mr. Welch was a guitarist and vocalist for Fleetwood Mac from 1971 to 1974. He formed the British rock group Paris in 1976 and had hits including Sentimental Lady in 1977 and Ebony Eyes in 1978. Fleetwood Mac's Christine McVie and Lindsey Buckingham did backing vocals on Sentimental Lady.

According to Aaron, family members told investigators that Mr. Welch had been dealing with health issues in recent months.

Family friend Bart Herbison, executive director of the National Songwriters Association, which includes the California Songwriters Association, the Nashville Songwriters Association International and the Texas Songwriters Association, said the musician had been through spinal surgery about three months ago.

"It had become apparent to Bob that he was not going to recover, that he was going to become an invalid," Herbison said. "He had seen his father become an invalid and watched his mother care for him for many years. In the letter he left, he told (his wife) Wendy, 'I'm not going to do this to you.' "

Herbison went on to say he'd never seen a couple more in love than Bob and Wendy Welch. He'd known them for about 15 years, he said.

"I've been privileged to meet a lot of famous musicians throughout the years," Herbison said. "Your fame and notoriety will take you to a lot of places where you have to go by yourself, but not Bob. He never went anywhere without Wendy."

Left band in 1970s

Fleetwood Mac's career took off in the mid-1970s after Mr. Welch left the band. "Dreams" was a No. 1 hit in 1977 and Don't Stop the same year. It later became the anthem for Bill Clinton's presidential campaign. "Hold Me" was a hit in 1982 and "Little Lies" in 1987.

Mr. Welch, a native of Los Angeles, scored his biggest hit with Sentimental Lady, which reached No. 8 on the Billboard chart. His other singles included Precious Love in 1979 and Hot Love, Cold World in 1978.

When Fleetwood Mac was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1998, Mr. Welch was not included in the group.

"It basically comes down to the fact that they don't like me anymore," he told The Plain Dealer of Cleveland at the time. "I guess they can do what they want. I could understand it if I had been a sideman for a year. But I was an integral part of that band. … I put more of myself into that band than anything else I've ever done."

Longtime Fleetwood Mac singer Stevie Nicks told The Associated Press that Mr. Welch's death hit her hard.

"The death of Bob Welch is devastating. … I had many great times with him after Lindsey and I joined Fleetwood Mac. He was an amazing guitar player — he was funny, sweet — and he was smart. I am so very sorry for his family and for the family of Fleetwood Mac — so, so sad. …"

Founding member Mick Fleetwood did not immediately respond to emails for comment Thursday.

As a songwriter, Mr. Welch had his songs recorded by Kenny Rogers, Sammy Hagar, The Pointer Sisters and others.

In 1999 he released a CD, Bob Welch Looks at Bop, a salute to bebop music in the 1940s.

In an interview with The Tennessean in 2003, Mr. Welch said he never dreamed he'd be remembered for much.

"I just wanted to play guitar in a good band," he said. "I wanted to make the music I love. I wanted to travel the world and have adventures."

Mr. Welch also said "music is disposable now. It doesn't have the emotional impact anymore. That's sad."

He had lived in Nashville since the 1990s.

[iamnotafraid]

An article from USA Today online might be of interest.

How The Rock Hall Decides Which Bandmates Get In
by Brian Mansfield. It's in the "Life" section of the website
www.usatoday.com .

[michelej1]

An article from USA Today online might be of interest.

.

[^That's interesting that they said they would change their handling of the announcement going forward because of the KISS controversy. I also read an article about the Rolling Stones manager Andrew Loog Oldham boycotting the ceremony. He was inducted, but he doesn't like the way they showcase the "stars" and then treat the contributions of others as if they aren't important at all. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-rock-hall-fame-andrew-loog-oldham-boycott-20140407,0,95557.story#axzz2yHQOQVhB]

Brian Mansfield, Special for USA TODAY 6:12 p.m. EDT April 7, 2014


http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2014/04/07/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-induction-which-bandmates-get-in/7210431/

Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons haven't hidden their displeasure that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame chose not to induct Kiss' current members along with its original ones.

When Simmons told USA TODAY, "This organization decided to honor only a part of our history," he raised a question about how the hall decides which individuals to include when it ushers in a group.

Kiss will have its most famous faces inducted — Simmons, Stanley, Ace Frehley and Peter Criss — when the band joins the hall's ranks April 10 in a ceremony at Barclays Center in Brooklyn. But two who now wear the signature makeup (Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer), plus four other former members (drummer Eric Carr and guitarists Bruce Kulick, Vinnie Vincent and Mark St. John), won't get in.

EARLIER: Kiss feels dissed by the Rock Hall of Fame

Nirvana's former drummer Chad Channing, who played on 1988 single Love Buzz, the recording that made the group eligible for Rock Hall induction this year, will be left out, too.

Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, on the other hand, will be welcomed in with a roster that encompasses early drummer Vini Lopez and keyboardist David Sancious, as well as its eight better-known members.

Groups get picked for induction for different reasons, says Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation president and CEO Joel Peresman, which means the hall's nominating committee will use different standards when deciding which bandmates to include. "Sometimes, it's the overall body of work; sometimes, it's a specific period in time and the people who comprised the band that put them on the map and gave them that influence and created that legacy," he says.

Historically, the Rock Hall has tended to choose a band's "classic" lineup for induction. For groups like The Beatles or U2, the choice is fairly simple. For others, it's more complicated. Practically everyone who ever played with the Grateful Dead was included when the group went into the hall in 1994. Metallica and the Red Hot Chili Peppers also have relatively inclusive hall memberships. Other induction lineups — like those for Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Temptations and Kiss — left out members who sang or played with the group for many years.

"The only rule they have is that they make their own rule with each band," Stanley says.

Peresman acknowledges that the Rock Hall's nominating committee, which consists of about 40 music industry executives, musicians and journalists, handles each decision about group membership on a case-by-case basis, in consultation with outside scholars.

"It's a little bit of opinion, but you have to go with the opinion of people who know these genres of music and can form a truly educated opinion," he says.

"The inconsistencies are there, and the hall has to live with them," says Neil Walls, who runs the Future Rock Legends website, which tracks artists' eligibility for the Rock Hall and determines their chances of induction."This is only going to come up again in the future," he says, pointing to Pearl Jam, which will be eligible for 2017 induction and is on its fifth, and longest-tenured, drummer. "They've got exceptions they've already put in, like the Chili Peppers, which will come back to haunt them."

The hall plans to change the way it announces group nominations as a result of the uproar over the Kiss exclusions, which led to the group refusing to play at the induction ceremony, and the confusion over Channing's, which Peresman says he learned of from a secondhand text message from Nirvana's management.

"Going forward, we'll be more clear-cut from the beginning and more public about who's being inducted," Peresman says. "(The next time) we announce the nominees, we'll make sure to say, 'Here are the people being nominated.' "

Contributing: Edna Gundersen

[chriskisn]

I'm not sure why it affects the RRHOF whether they induct just a classic lineup or whether they induct a whole band. I can't see the logic. In FM's case the founding bassist was excluded, two long serving vocalist/guitarists in Welch and Burnette, and five others just didn't fit in with whatever criteria they judged the band against. Personally I think they should have all been in. You are a member of a band, you are in.

[michelej1]

I'm not sure why it affects the RRHOF whether they induct just a classic lineup or whether they induct a whole band. I can't see the logic. In FM's case the founding bassist was excluded, two long serving vocalist/guitarists in Welch and Burnette, and five others just didn't fit in with whatever criteria they judged the band against. Personally I think they should have all been in. You are a member of a band, you are in.

Maybe the RRHOF tries to control who is present at the ceremony by who they induct. As Oldham pointed out, the ceremony is about television and publicity, not about music and rock and roll. Maybe the RRHOF only wants to induct people that will give their ceremony the most mass appeal.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

I'm not sure why it affects the RRHOF whether they induct just a classic lineup or whether they induct a whole band. I can't see the logic. In FM's case the founding bassist was excluded, two long serving vocalist/guitarists in Welch and Burnette, and five others just didn't fit in with whatever criteria they judged the band against. Personally I think they should have all been in. You are a member of a band, you are in.

Only in the most technical sense could John McVie not be considered a founding member. By all accounts, Brunning's hiring was purely temporary, and everyone knew it. Even if all the other members of FM, including Walker and Mason, were inducted, I still would not have included Brunning.

If you include Brunning, then you have to include Nigel Watson, Doug Graves, and other temporary members.

[chiliD]

O
If you include Brunning, then you have to include Nigel Watson, Doug Graves, and other temporary members.

It's a little different with Brunning, he may have only been a "placeholder" in retrospect, but at the time it really WASN'T a "given" that John would join. Glad he did, but it wasn't set in stone at the time.

Watson was there because Peter dragged him along. Doug Graves (as well as Bobby Hunt) was on par with current/recent touring additions like Neale Haywood, Carlos Rios & Brett Tuggle et.al, plus Stevie's "girls"....hired hands for tour purposes only. (and Steve Thoma, keyboardist during the '94/'95 tours) There wasn't any pretense of band "membership" at all in their hirings. Even the same could be said for Christine during the Kiln House album sessions & subsequent tour...I don't think she really was officially a member until after the tour & the Future Games sessions began.

[chriskisn]

Only in the most technical sense could John McVie not be considered a founding member. By all accounts, Brunning's hiring was purely temporary, and everyone knew it. Even if all the other members of FM, including Walker and Mason, were inducted, I still would not have included Brunning.

If you include Brunning, then you have to include Nigel Watson, Doug Graves, and other temporary members.

We are never going to agree on this issue sadly :lol: Brunning was a member hired with the understanding that if and when McVie left Mayall that he was out the door. That issue could have gone on for 3 months or 3 years.

As for Doug Graves, well we've been over this ground in another thread. Was he a temporary member, was he (at least by his own understanding) a permanent one.

Watson was hired solo for the tour (hell he wasn't even hired he kind of just tagged along with Peter) :laugh:

[BlueDenimLamp]

We are never going to agree on this issue sadly :lol: Brunning was a member hired with the understanding that if and when McVie left Mayall that he was out the door. That issue could have gone on for 3 months or 3 years.

As for Doug Graves, well we've been over this ground in another thread. Was he a temporary member, was he (at least by his own understanding) a permanent one.

Watson was hired solo for the tour (hell he wasn't even hired he kind of just tagged along with Peter) :laugh:

Question is was Brunning a member of the band OR was he a temporary employee of the band???

[chiliD]

Question is was Brunning a member of the band OR was he a temporary employee of the band???

Simplest question...if Brunning wasn't on stage at the Windsor Jazz Festival, who would've been Fleetwood Mac's bass player?

John McVie was still a member of the Bluesbreakers, so, yeah, Brunning was a member. It wasn't a given that McVie would ever leave Mayall.

Was Pete Best a member of the Beatles? Yes. Was he replaced? Yes. So, he was a temporary member. Yes.

Hell, were Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan replaced? Yes. So, you can call them temporary members, too....but, while they WERE in the band, they were viewed as permanent members. End of argument. Next topic.

[louielouie2000]

This article made me think of the Fleetwood Mac RRHOF drama when I read it:

http://www.austin360.com/ap/ap/ohio/kiss-not-the-first-to-tell-rock-hall-to-kiss-off/nfWfF/

Sounds like Bob Welch is far from the only one jilted/displeased with the RRHOF. I take the RRHOF about as seriously as I do the Grammy's... which is about the lowest insult I can sling. It might almost be a badge of honor that Bob isn't included in the dretch that is the RRHOF.

[aleuzzi]

It's a little different with Brunning, he may have only been a "placeholder" in retrospect, but at the time it really WASN'T a "given" that John would join. Glad he did, but it wasn't set in stone at the time.

Watson was there because Peter dragged him along. Doug Graves (as well as Bobby Hunt) was on par with current/recent touring additions like Neale Haywood, Carlos Rios & Brett Tuggle et.al, plus Stevie's "girls"....hired hands for tour purposes only. (and Steve Thoma, keyboardist during the '94/'95 tours) There wasn't any pretense of band "membership" at all in their hirings. Even the same could be said for Christine during the Kiln House album sessions & subsequent tour...I don't think she really was officially a member until after the tour & the Future Games sessions began.

I'll give you this, but one point of correction. Christine was announced as an official member of the group before the American tour of Kiln House. It was reported as such and can be found in one or two articles in the archive.

Here is one from March 1971, when she'd already been with them for more than six months:

http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=1047&c=2

[chriskisn]

I'll give you this, but one point of correction. Christine was announced as an official member of the group before the American tour of Kiln House. It was reported as such and can be found in one or two articles in the archive.

Here is one from March 1971, when she'd already been with them for more than six months:

http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=1047&c=2

I seem to remember not that long back someone posting an article about Doug Graves being named a member and there is the footage of FM being introduced with new band member Doug Graves. :laugh:

[aleuzzi]

I seem to remember not that long back someone posting an article about Doug Graves being named a member and there is the footage of FM being introduced with new band member Doug Graves. :laugh:

But Doug Graves never did an interview six months later, did he? The March 71 article I posted is still long in advance of the Future Games recording and still in advance of the end of the Kiln House tour. That's all.

[chiliD]

I seem to remember not that long back someone posting an article about Doug Graves being named a member and there is the footage of FM being introduced with new band member Doug Graves. :laugh:

Graves didn't even make it through the entire '74 tour...they got Bobby Hunt to play the last 4 or 5 shows. (Graves played the Don Kirshner's Rock Concert filming and did a couple of those "live in studio" recordings Sept - Nov '74, but Bobby Hunt was playing those final December shows...I know, I was at both the Kirshner taping and one of the final 2 shows of the tour)

Graves was engineer or 2nd engineer on Heroes Are Hard To Find & was most likely asked to play keys to "fill out the sound" (sound familiar?) for the tour. Don't know WHY he was swapped out for Bobby Hunt, except that Bobby had been in one (or more) of Bob Welch's pre-Fleetwood Mac bands and there was that connection.

Kirshner introduced the band one at a time...what's he gonna do? Leave out Doug Graves? Who was obviously on stage playing with the band. I think Don just overstepped his bounds introducing him as a "member". It'd be like somebody introducing Neale Haywood as a member nowadays.

[Mr Scarrott]

It's a little different with Brunning, he may have only been a "placeholder" in retrospect, but at the time it really WASN'T a "given" that John would join. Glad he did, but it wasn't set in stone at the time.


This is just pure speculation, but I would guess that Burnette, Vito, Mason and Bramlett would have had something in their contracts that they would be out of the band if you-know-who decided to return. In that sense, they could have been seen as "placeholders" too.

I think it was me who posted that Kirshner clip re Doug Graves. To me it all seems a bit ambiguous...and there was that quote from Graves that appeared to indicate he thought he was in the band itself. But I don't want to rake over all that again....:shrug:

[wetcamelfood]

This is just pure speculation, but I would guess that Burnette, Vito, Mason and Bramlett would have had something in their contracts that they would be out of the band if you-know-who decided to return. In that sense, they could have been seen as "placeholders" too.

I think it was me who posted that Kirshner clip re Doug Graves. To me it all seems a bit ambiguous...and there was that quote from Graves that appeared to indicate he thought he was in the band itself. But I don't want to rake over all that again....:shrug:

Vito and Burnette were already in the band when CM was still there (TITN tour, 1988 GH, Behind The Mask, etc.) so doubt they had such issues. At least CM sang back up on some of Bekka's Time tracks so I doubt they had issues. Mason on the other hand may have been different but I think Mick knew that from day one of getting DM in that if she came back this would have to change, as far as what she wanted was concerned (as it sounds like she had more of an issue with him than he did with her).

CM joined FM in Aug '70. The Dragonfly/Purple Dancer single was the first thing released with CM as a member (There were some immigration and contractual delays for making her a member due to her still being under contract with Blue Horizon as a solo artist when the decision was made to have her join as a member).

John

[chiliD]

This is just pure speculation, but I would guess that Burnette, Vito, Mason and Bramlett would have had something in their contracts that they would be out of the band if you-know-who decided to return. In that sense, they could have been seen as "placeholders" too.
:

I doubt that. At the time (1994) Lindsey had just come off his OotC tour the previous year in which while promoting his solo tour, he wasn't saying all that nice of things about Mick & Fleetwood Mac in interviews...pretty much torching that bridge. At the same time, Stevie was pretty down about Mick & therefore Fleetwood Mac, as well, over the whole "Silver Springs" issue. It wasn't all that farts & giggles when they did the Clinton inauguration...they pretty much all said that they'd do it, then wish they hadn't when it came time for them all to do it.

At that point, there weren't any "placeholders" in Fleetwood Mac, they were who they were...Mick, John, Bekka, Billy & Dave (with Steve Thoma on the road and Christine in the studio). That WAS Fleetwood Mac. At that point, there was probably better odds that Peter, Jeremy & Danny would come back than Lindsey & Stevie. So, doubt if there was anything stipulated in any contracts.

[cabwinn]

:confused::confused::confused:We all feel that singer/songwriter/guitarist Bob Welch (formerly of Fleetwood Mac) should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We feel that Welch has been treated most unfairly by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and heres why:

When Fleetwood Mac was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, former Fleetwood Mac singer, songwriter and guitarist Bob Welch was snubbed despite the fact that he was a key member of the band from 1971-74! Bob Welch played guitar, sang lead vocals and wrote many of the songs on 5 Fleetwood Mac albums. Mick Fleetwood himself has said that Bob Welch was a major part of Fleetwood Macs survival and yet Welch has still not been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We believe that no satisfactory reason has been given for why Welch was not inducted, and that the situation must be rectified by inducting Bob Welch into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

[THD]

You might add that he was also the front man for the band ,doing the intros and chit chat between numbers (at least that's how I remember it !)

[cabwinn]

You might add that he was also the front man for the band ,doing the intros and chit chat between numbers (at least that's how I remember it !)

very true!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jondalar]

Today I heard Sentimental Lady. I love that song but it made me sad because it made me think about the way his life.

[FuzzyPlum]

Okay, I'm going to make some people pretty p'd-off here...

I can honestly understand why Bob was not inducted into the RnR Hall of Fame. I think he's a great musician, a very good song writer and a solid guitarist. There's absolutely no denying he kept the band together and for four years or so FM evolved around his talent. Some of his compositions feature in my all-time FM lists. Add in that he always seemed to be a really, really nice guy.

However, the whole point of the HOF is to recognise those who achieve significant things and influence others. Bob's record isn't great.
With FM:
5 albums. Highest chart: 34 (US)
Solo/non-FM- highest chart 12 (US)

I love the period from 1970-75. I so wish he had been part of the band with Stevie and Lindsey. I so wish they'd turned to him when Lindsey left in 87 and even after that I'd dreamed of a mass get-to gather-featuring Bob.

However, Bob was not a very talented guitarist and his song-writing (though extremely interesting) was limited. His record (chart-wise) with FM was not great and his time after FM was only moderately successful. There are loads of artists/bands that had his level of success and much, much more. If he hadn't had a link to FM there would have been no argument to be made.

I feel a bit hypocritical in that I've signed the petitions. I'm not against him being inducted per-se. But I can well understand why he wasn't. I appreciate there are plenty of bands that inducted all members. Equally (and more so?) there are bands that didn't induct all members.

I don't think his omission was a major mistake but I do think he was a major artist who played a majorly significant role in the history of this band. RIP Bob Welch.

[PenguinHead]

I'll give you this, but one point of correction. Christine was announced as an official member of the group before the American tour of Kiln House. It was reported as such and can be found in one or two articles in the archive.

Here is one from March 1971, when she'd already been with them for more than six months:

http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=1047&c=2

Thanks for this great article. A nice peak into their past history, straight from the mouth of Ms. Perfect.

Regarding FuzzyPlum's comments justifying Bob Welch's omission from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Blasphemy! Reasoning that because the period in which he was in the band wasn't commercially successful was a good reason to omit him. So all it was on his shoulders?? Wow. Bob's rolling over in his grave, and I'm standing up for Bob, for he is responsible for keeping the band alive. Sure, he had some weaknesses (as all of them do), but he was the vital link in the chain that kept the band going. Christine has acknowledged that in past interview.

[FuzzyPlum]

Nothing new but quite an interesting article...


Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-weisman/deep-purple-bassist-nick-_b_9619494.html

Deep Purple Bassist Nick Simper’s Hall of Fame Snub
Roger Weisman
Playwright, raconteur, and media/culture writer
Trying in Vain to Find Logic in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame’s Induction Process


This year, Deep Purple, the classic English rock band that is credited with helping to lay the groundwork for heavy metal, is finally being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Having been eligible since 1993, many believe that this honor is long overdue, and others feared it would never happen as more and more diverse acts meet the 25 year mark required for admittance.

As is the case with many bands, Deep Purple included many musicians over the years, which presents the problem of deciding which members are to be honored. Usually the Hall recognizes members of “classic” lineups, whatever that means. In the case of Deep Purple, there are a number of omissions for various reasons. Current members Steve Morse (who replaced the notoriously cantankerous founding guitarist Ritchie Blackmore in 1994) and Don Airey (who took over the keyboard chair from Jon Lord in 2002) are not included, in spite of their years in the band. In addition, in spite of their popularity (largely due to other projects) the one-album stints of guitarist Tommy Bolin and vocalist Joe Lynn Turner were not enough to warrant inclusion. In the end, the Hall chose to induct all of the members from the band’s inception in 1968 up to the departure of Blackmore in 1975.

All except for Nick Simper, the founding bassist who played on the first three albums including the hit single, “Hush.”

Commenting in Classic Rock magazine, Simper himself seemed to take the snub in stride and did not blame his old bandmates. “Yes, it is a little strange that I am [the] only one from Marks I, II and III being left out, but I shan’t lose any sleep over this. It’s not as if I need to be given this award to know what we did in Deep Purple made an impact. And I’m sure it wasn’t a decision that came from the band.”

Even considering that the band did not achieve their greatest success or even their defining sound until his departure in 1969, his exclusion is quite inexplicable. After all, vocalist Rod Evans, whose tenure with band ended at the same time as Simper’s, is being honored, in spite of controversy and a lawsuit around fraudulent use of the band name.

Interviews with numerous Hall of Fame acts back up Simper’s belief that the groups themselves do not necessarily choose the inductees. I have tried to find the specific rules as to who is to be included, and who makes these decisions, but in vain. Even searching for consistency in the list of members proves to be problematic. In my search for a set of criteria, I found numerous examples which simply contradict each other.

The only thing I ever found that suggested a concrete rule was in the case of Jack Sherman, erstwhile guitarist for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Sherman was vocal in his disappointment at being snubbed when the band was inducted in 2012. Though the decision was ostensibly made by the Hall of Fame, Sherman believed that the decision was influenced by the band itself. Told that induction was limited to “original and current members, and those who played on multiple records,” he believed that it was technicality designed to exclude him and Jane’s Addiction guitarist Dave Navarro, who played on the band’s 1995 album One Hot Minute when long-time member John Frusciante had taken a hiatus from the band. By these criteria, Sherman, who played on the first album but was not a founding member, did not qualify. In a turn of events that must have been particularly insulting, current guitarist Josh Klinghoffer, who had only a full member of the band for three years and had been all of four years old when the band was founded in 1983, did receive the honor of inclusion. This strange technicality made Klinghoffer the youngest member of the Hall of Fame.

The “original and current members, and those who played on multiple records” rule does explain many omissions, but not all. It does not explain the exclusion of Fleetwood Mac guitarist Bob Welch in 1998. Though Welch not a member of the original band or its later classic Rumours line-up, he was a pivotal member for several years and albums and was essential to saving a fracturing band while helping it make the transition from blues-infused hard rock to the pristine pop rock for which it is best known. Welsh attributed the snub to a then-recent breach of contract lawsuit between him and his former bandmates. This of course, would be a fallacious argument if the band indeed did not have some sort of say in who was inducted.

But apparently the band may have some say. When the Rolling Stones were inducted in 1989, the band requested that founding pianist Ian Stewart (“Stu”) be inducted with them, even though he was fired from the band (or to be more specific, was demoted from band member to session musician and road manager) before their first album. This decision was made by the Stones’ manager, Andrew Loog Oldham, who argued that the stocky, square-jawed Stewart did not fit the image of the young rebellious band. Jagger, Richards, and company, however, held him in high esteem. Keith Richards would frequently say, even after Stu’s death in 1985, “I still feel like I’m working for him. It’s his band.” They presented the argument to the Hall that, in spite of the fact that he had never been credited as a band member on any album, as a founder, he should be eligible. Now while he technically fits the rule that excluded Jack Sherman, as a member who was not terribly well known, it is hard to imagine that the Hall would have automatically inducted Stewart if it were not for the band’s intervention.

The current member factor seems to be used quite inconsistently. When the Grateful Dead were inducted in 1994, keyboardist Vince Welnick had been in the band for less than 4 years, but was still included . Meanwhile, when the Allman Brothers Band were so honored the following year, only original members were inducted, ignoring not only members from the mid 70s, when their popularity was at its zenith, but also then-current members including Warren Haynes, who was not only instrumental in their comeback six years earlier, but would later prove to be the glue that would hold the band together over the next couple of decades.¹

Now, I do not intend to slight Klinghoffer, but personally, I believe that Haynes is far more deserving of the honor.

Which leads me back to the case of Nick Simper. Before Deep Purple, Simper had played with a number of working English bands in the early sixties. Notably, he was the last bass player for Johnny Kidd and the Pirates, a hugely influential group whose single “Shakin’ All Over” became a rock staple and was famously covered by The Who on their Live at Leeds album. Admittedly a late-comer to the group, Simper had the sad distinction of being present (and injured) in the car crash that killed Kidd. He would later do a stint in Screaming Lord Such and the Savages before playing in the Flower Pot Men with Jon Lord.

It was Lord who recommended Simper to fill the role as bassist in Deep Purple, a band that he was starting with guitarist Ritchie Blackmore. When singer Rod Evans came to audition, he brought along his drummer Ian Paice, and the lineup of what would later be known as Deep Purple Mark I, would be complete. That lineup, which played a blend of proto-progressive and psychedelic rock, would find modest success and tour internationally.

Simper and Evans would be fired in 1969 due to the desire of Blackmore, Lord, and Paice to take the band in a heavier direction. Simper would play with a number of bands over the ensuing decades, but would never find the same level of success. Evans would resurface in Captain Beyond, a band that included former members of Iron Butterfly and Johnny Winter’s band. Not quite a “supergroup”, they were at the very least a “pretty-nifty-group.” They released a couple of well received, if not hot selling albums, before Evans left the music business to work as a respiratory therapist.

Unfortunately, Evans’ story took a pitiable turn in 1980, when he was recruited by a disreputable promotion company to participate what would be a Deep Purple reunion in name only, with a group of hired guns (apparently Simper was also approached, but turned down the offer). After a few warm-up gigs, the band was set to play at the 12,000 seat Long Beach Arena. On the day of the show, the managers of (the real) Deep Purple placed a half page ad in the LA Times informing audiences that no members of the band’s most popular Mark II and III lineups would be performing. The show went on as scheduled, and went off poorly. Sound problems abounded, the band was below subpar, and angry fans, realizing they’d been duped, began leaving immediately, many asking for refunds. A lawsuit was brought against Evans (assumed by many to be at the behest of guitarist Ritchie Blackmore) which resulted in his loss of all future Deep Purple royalties. It is a sad and embarrassing story and one does have to wonder how Evans, who was described by his former band mate, Bobby Caldwell, as an “intellectual giant” (although, to be fair, this is by rock star standards [ducks]) would have allowed himself to be roped in to such a dubious enterprise.

When I saw that Evans was being inducted and that Simper was not, I was perplexed. I don’t think that Evans should be excluded for events of over thirty years ago, but why was Simper excluded when his parallel tenure with the band was not marred with controversy? Who decided? Do the bands in question really have as little say as we are led to believe? Were there inter-band politics that we do not know about, or is it just another example of the bassist not getting any respect? This situation with Nick Simper and Deep Purple, above all others, indicates to me that there really is no rhyme or reason. Even if one argued that rules changed from year to year, this case indicates a complete lack of logic within itself.

If anyone can shed light on this, please let me know. Looking at these and other cases, it seems to me that the decisions of who gets in and stays home and bitterly watches the ceremony on TV, are taken on a case by case basis and based more on whims than specific criteria. We may never know the answer, but the case of Nick Simper once again highlights the irregularities and inconsistencies of the induction process of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

(¹The only reason I can imagine for this strange paradox is that Welnick joined a band that played together more or less continuously for several decades, as opposed to Haynes who joined a band that was reforming after having been broken up for several years. It’s not much, but it’s all I got, and it would explain the absence of Deep Purple’s Steve Morse and Don Airey.)

[estranged4life]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/steve-miller-hall-of-fame-criticism/?trackback=blogroll_widget-latest-articles

Though gracious in accepting his 2016 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, Steve Miller wasn’t so kind backstage afterward. He offered withering criticism of the entire exercise, zeroing in on the way organizers dealt with honorees.

“The whole process needs to be changed from the top to the bottom,” Miller told reporters in the press room of the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, N.Y. “They need to get their legal work straight. They need to respect the artists they say they’re honoring, but they don’t.”

Specifically, Miller said he didn’t prearrange for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to use his music or footage for the ceremony – and, in fact, still didn’t have a signed agreement. He also said organizers provided tickets for only him and his wife. They informed Miller that his fellow band members would have to pay their own way, with passes running as much as $10,000 a piece, he said.

At that point, a publicist for the induction ceremony attempted to cut Miller off – but he pressed on. “We’re not gonna wrap this one up,” Miller said, insisting the publicist sit down so that he could continue. “This is how close this show came to not happening, because of the way the artists are being treated right now.”

Miller’s stern commentary followed a hits-packed Hall of Fame set that began with “Fly Like An Eagle,” then continued through “Jet Airliner” before concluding with “The Joker.” He was inducted by the Black Keys.


Read More: Steve Miller Tears Into Rock and Roll Hall of Fame After Induction | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/steve-miller-hall-of-fame-criticism/?trackback=blogroll_widget-latest-articles&trackback=tsmclip

[michelej1]

[Excerpt from a Huffington Post on Deep Purple Bassist's HOF snub]

Roger Weisman April 6, 2016

Trying in Vain to Find Logic in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame’s Induction Process

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-weisman/deep-purple-bassist-nick-_b_9619494.html

The “original and current members, and those who played on multiple records” rule does explain many omissions, but not all. It does not explain the exclusion of Fleetwood Mac guitarist Bob Welch in 1998. Though Welch not a member of the original band or its later classic Rumours line-up, he was a pivotal member for several years and albums and was essential to saving a fracturing band while helping it make the transition from blues-infused hard rock to the pristine pop rock for which it is best known. Welsh attributed the snub to a then-recent breach of contract lawsuit between him and his former bandmates. This of course, would be a fallacious argument if the band indeed did not have some sort of say in who was inducted.

But apparently the band may have some say. When the Rolling Stones were inducted in 1989, the band requested that founding pianist Ian Stewart (“Stu”) be inducted with them, even though he was fired from the band (or to be more specific, was demoted from band member to session musician and road manager) before their first album. This decision was made by the Stones’ manager, Andrew Loog Oldham, who argued that the stocky, square-jawed Stewart did not fit the image of the young rebellious band. Jagger, Richards, and company, however, held him in high esteem. Keith Richards would frequently say, even after Stu’s death in 1985, “I still feel like I’m working for him. It’s his band.” They presented the argument to the Hall that, in spite of the fact that he had never been credited as a band member on any album, as a founder, he should be eligible. Now while he technically fits the rule that excluded Jack Sherman, as a member who was not terribly well known, it is hard to imagine that the Hall would have automatically inducted Stewart if it were not for the band’s intervention.