I've been thinking...

[singertobe]

We always ship Lindsey and Stevie. I have seen so many fanfictions where they get back together. We all go crazy when they interact on stage and have been since the Rumours days...
But then when it comes to John and Christine, we never really say anything.
Is there anyone out there who thinks John and Christine should get back together?:wavey:

[brickney723]

We always ship Lindsey and Stevie. I have seen so many fanfictions where they get back together. We all go crazy when they interact on stage and have been since the Rumours days...
But then when it comes to John and Christine, we never really say anything.
Is there anyone out there who thinks John and Christine should get back together?:wavey:

My opinion is they did not have a mutually passionate relationship- at all.

[michelej1]

My opinion is they did not have a mutually passionate relationship- at all.

I think they did once, but since they parted, it's hard for me to imagine that she's wanted him back. Him on the other hand ... I think he's still in love.

Michele

[MoonSister75]

I think they did once, but since they parted, it's hard for me to imagine that she's wanted him back. Him on the other hand ... I think he's still in love.

Michele

From what I just heard of Christine's interview she sounds quite happy on her own at the moment. It seems that John has got a good relationship with his wife. But I'm sure there is still a lot of love there...

[SteveMacD]

I think the McVies cherish what they had, but realize it ended and it's still over, and are able to be friends.

Now Christine and Mick...

[MoonSister75]

I think the McVies cherish what they had, but realize it ended and it's still over, and are able to be friends.

Now Christine and Mick...

:shocked: I hadn't thought about that one. Stevie and Mick had crossed my mind?? He is single again isn't he? :rolleyes:

[SteveMacD]

:shocked: I hadn't thought about that one. Stevie and Mick had crossed my mind?? He is single again isn't he? :rolleyes:
There's a pic from Q Magazine circa 1987 (I don't think Lindsey had quit, yet) that had a pic of Mick and Chris. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear they'd make a cute couple.

[michelej1]

:shocked: I hadn't thought about that one. Stevie and Mick had crossed my mind?? He is single again isn't he? :rolleyes:

He said he had a girlfriend a few months back.

I think Christine may be a little too preoccupied with his big belly to see him as a love interest.

Michele

[michelej1]

There's a pic from Q Magazine circa 1987 (I don't think Lindsey had quit, yet) that had a pic of Mick and Chris. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear they'd make a cute couple.

Holidayroad posted this one recently. Nice photo of her on Mick's chest.

http://i54.tinypic.com/a9pwdi.jpg

[SteveMacD]

He said he had a girlfriend a few months back.

I think Christine may be a little too preoccupied with his big belly to see him as a love interest.
She didn't say that was a turn-off...

[SteveMacD]

Holidayroad posted this one recently. Nice photo of her on Mick's chest.

http://i54.tinypic.com/a9pwdi.jpg

No. This one was just of Mick and Chris, both wearing hats, from 1987.

[singertobe]

Yeah I just wondered why we never pay much attention to the McVie relationship. Its always fascinating to me how John and Christine were seemingly able to be really good friends, while Lindsey and Stevie still supposedly have issues with each other.

[michelej1]

No. This one was just of Mick and Chris, both wearing hats, from 1987.

Yeah, I knew that you weren't referencing a Tusk-era photo. I just thought that this was an interesting one of the 2 of them as well.


Michele

[michelej1]

Yeah I just wondered why we never pay much attention to the McVie relationship. Its always fascinating to me how John and Christine were seemingly able to be really good friends, while Lindsey and Stevie still supposedly have issues with each other.

Ironically, there was a time when Christine said just the opposite. She said that she and John avoided each other while Stevie and Lindsey could actually get along quite well, when they were working on a song.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Yeah I just wondered why we never pay much attention to the McVie relationship. Its always fascinating to me how John and Christine were seemingly able to be really good friends, while Lindsey and Stevie still supposedly have issues with each other.
I think it's because, at least during the "Rumours" era, Christine's songs weren't as blatantly brutal. Stevie sang "and what you lost," Lindsey sang "shackin' up's all you wanna do," whereas Christine sang "don't stop thinking about tomorrow." Stevie and Lindsey continued to sing about each other, whereas Christine seemed to move on, and John became her buddy in the process.

[MoonSister75]

There's a pic from Q Magazine circa 1987 (I don't think Lindsey had quit, yet) that had a pic of Mick and Chris. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear they'd make a cute couple.

interesting.... anything is possible :rolleyes: :]

[Dex]

I think Christine may be a little too preoccupied with his big belly to see him as a love interest.

Michele


No, Michele! :mad: Big bellies are hot and I will not have them slandered. Stop this. ( ;) )

But yes, I don't see any reason for these two to get back together (or Lindsey and Stevie). I think we simply don't consider their relationship as much because they don't talk about it that much. And John really doesn't say a whole lot publicly period. :shrug:

[blackcat]

We always ship Lindsey and Stevie. I have seen so many fanfictions where they get back together. We all go crazy when they interact on stage and have been since the Rumours days...
But then when it comes to John and Christine, we never really say anything.
Is there anyone out there who thinks John and Christine should get back together?:wavey:

You may be in a minority, but you are not alone! Lis (of Marty & Lis, who started The Penguin website) was a MAJOR John & Christine shipper! Your post made me think of her and she would be very pleased with your question. I picture her right now mixing up some sort of potion to make this happen! :wavey:

http://www.bitofsugar.com/images/LovePotion2.jpg

I think it's significant that when John was sick, Christine's name was suddenly all over. It is possible that even during the Hawaii trip, John's illness was already known by some--including Christine.

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2011/12/12/45641136-John-McVie-Christine-McVie-Divorced-Couples-Working.jpg


Don't stop thinking about tomorrow. ;)

[blackcat]

One thing more, singertobe, check out what Lis wrote:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/themcvies.htm

[jbrownsjr]

You may be in a minority, but you are not alone! Lis (of Marty & Lis, who started The Penguin website) was a MAJOR John & Christine shipper! Your post made me think of her and she would be very pleased with your question. I picture her right now mixing up some sort of potion to make this happen! :wavey:

http://www.bitofsugar.com/images/LovePotion2.jpg
)

You're going wayyy back.. lol

[michelej1]

No, Michele! :mad: Big bellies are hot and I will not have them slandered. Stop this. ( ;) )



In my defense Christine did recently mention Mick's tummy. I would never have cited it as a possible turn off spontaneously :laugh:

I think you're right. If John and Christine talked more about their relationship, so would the fans.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

In my defense Christine did recently mention Mick's tummy. I would never have cited it as a possible turn off spontaneously :laugh:

I think you're right. If John and Christine talked more about their relationship, so would the fans.

Michele

Not really their style tho.... But I agree.

[michelej1]

Not really their style tho.... But I agree.

And the press doesn't ask them really. It's not a sexy topic to the media.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

And the press doesn't ask them really. It's not a sexy topic to the media.

Michele

It's always the #2 issue. And Mick's marriage breaking up is the #3 issue.

[KarmaContestant]

Ah - Christine's *real* reason for wanting to return to Fleetwood Mac is finally uncovered. Snuggle time with John's belly. :lol:

[whitewingdove]

Ah - Christine's *real* reason for wanting to return to Fleetwood Mac is finally uncovered. Snuggle time with John's belly. :lol:

LOL :lol:

I would have to agree with the fact that they are just different people compared to S & L. I think that that has made them be able to handle the situation differently and I now see them as having a friendly, simple platonic, average divorced couple relationship. It's shown in The Dance. I think they both love each other as much as they did back then or maybe more but just in a different way.
From a Buckingham Nicks shipper's pov, you could also say it's different because of the fact that the McVie relationship was over years ago but Stevie and Lindsey are still showing their emotions towards each other and some could say they still love each other they same way they did then.
Idk, this whole band has my mind reeling. I doubt we'll ever really know what goes on between them all. :shrug:

[singertobe]

One thing more, singertobe, check out what Lis wrote:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/themcvies.htm

Interesting! Thank you!:)
I di wish those 2 would put up pictures of their wedding though. I bet Christine made a lovely bride :angel:

[thinkaboutme90]

Christine and Mick's relationship always seemed more brotherly-sisterly to me. It's obvious that they really love and care for each other, but it never struck me as anything more than a platonic relationship. Chris and Lindsey, however................

[elle]

Christine and Mick's relationship always seemed more brotherly-sisterly to me. It's obvious that they really love and care for each other, but it never struck me as anything more than a platonic relationship. Chris and Lindsey, however................

if you haven't yet, you may want to visit the thread "hot or not" in LB forum. might be something of interest to you there... :wavey:

[michelej1]

I think it's because, at least during the "Rumours" era, Christine's songs weren't as blatantly brutal. Stevie sang "and what you lost," Lindsey sang "shackin' up's all you wanna do," whereas Christine sang "don't stop thinking about tomorrow." Stevie and Lindsey continued to sing about each other, whereas Christine seemed to move on, and John became her buddy in the process.

I know we've talked about it before, but that 1997 article where John was drunk and told the interviewer to say hello to his ex-wife and said his ex was great, even though she'd told him to jump off ... that didn't seem like moving on to be her buddy was that easy a thing for him. I mean 1997 was a long time ago, but it was still 20 years after their divorce and he still seemed a little torn up. At least when he was in his cups.

And Stevie also had to helpfully add (again in 1997) that John and Christine would still be together, but for his drinking. Like someone was still analyzing the reason for the McVie breakup after all that time.

Michele

[brickney723]

I know we've talked about it before, but that 1997 article where John was drunk and told the interviewer to say hello to his ex-wife and said his ex was great, even though she'd told him to jump off ... that didn't seem like moving on to be her buddy was that easy a thing for him. I mean 1997 was a long time ago, but it was still 20 years after their divorce and he still seemed a little torn up. At least when he was in his cups.

And Stevie also had to helpfully add (again in 1997) that John and Christine would still be together, but for his drinking. Like someone was still analyzing the reason for the McVie breakup after all that time.

Michele

I actually saw this new documentary tonight- In it Ken C talks about the Mirage era. He says at that time, both Lindsey AND John were "buzzing" around their respective exes with "old feelings" and it was upsetting to both women.. So yeah, it was obvious about Lindsey- but who knew about John? Not me.

[michelej1]

I actually saw this new documentary tonight- In it Ken C talks about the Mirage era. He says at that time, both Lindsey AND John were "buzzing" around their respective exes with "old feelings" and it was upsetting to both women.. So yeah, it was obvious about Lindsey- but who knew about John? Not me.

It was at that time, before Mirage came out I believe, that Stevie said she and Lindsey could totally get back together. But she added that they would just break up all over again, so it wouldn't be practical.

Michele

[brickney723]

It was at that time, before Mirage came out I believe, that Stevie said she and Lindsey could totally get back together. But she added that they would just break up all over again, so it wouldn't be practical.

Michele

I'm convinced that was the reason for a lot of his anger towards her- being ok with acting like a couple, but not ever willing to be a couple again. Something he said in that Daily Mail article- we weren't even estranged, just not a couple- struck me as well.

[michelej1]

I'm convinced that was the reason for a lot of his anger towards her- being ok with acting like a couple, but not ever willing to be a couple again. Something he said in that Daily Mail article- we weren't even estranged, just not a couple- struck me as well.

Oh in 1981-1982 I think she would have been willing to be a couple again. They seemed to have kind of a short-lived tenderness going on during that period, but he didn't leave his girlfriend.

Michele

[brickney723]

Oh in 1981-1982 I think she would have been willing to be a couple again. They seemed to have kind of a short-lived tenderness going on during that period, but he didn't leave his girlfriend.

Michele

I think he would have dropped CAH in a heartbeat if she would've been willing to really come back.

[holidayroad]

No. This one was just of Mick and Chris, both wearing hats, from 1987.

This may not be the pic you saw, but they are both wearing hats in it.

http://i41.tinypic.com/za6ms.jpg

[michelej1]

I think he would have dropped CAH in a heartbeat if she would've been willing to really come back.

I don't think he just wanted her back. They never seemed to break cleanly in the first place. They stopped being "husband and wife" but it seems they were still sleeping together occasionally. What he wanted was a household and monogamy and I don't think he ever thought he could get that from her during the height of their fame. Maybe he thought or hoped it in 1997 when he said she was like the girl he lived with all those years ago, but I don't think he thought that was a possibility in the eighties and I don't think he harbored any dream of getting back together with her. So, no I don't think he would have left his girlfriend for Stevie, not the way she was then. He didn't want just a liaison.

Michele

[michelej1]

This may not be the pic you saw, but they are both wearing hats in it.

Ha ha. Mick looks very conspiratorial.

Michele

[brickney723]

I don't think he just wanted her back. They never seemed to break cleanly in the first place. They stopped being "husband and wife" but it seems they were still sleeping together occasionally. What he wanted was a household and monogamy and I don't think he ever thought he could get that from her during the height of their fame. Maybe he thought or hoped it in 1997 when he said she was like the girl he lived with all those years ago, but I don't think he thought that was a possibility in the eighties and I don't think he harbored any dream of getting back together with her. So, no I don't think he would have left his girlfriend for Stevie, not the way she was then. He didn't want just a liaison.

Michele
Exactly. I definitely think they were sleeping together off and on. I think he wanted a real, monogamous relationship with her- that she was not willing to have ever again really.

[brickney723]

Though as far as harboring any dream of getting back together with her- I don't think he let go of that particular dream for literally decades.

[michelej1]

Though as far as harboring any dream of getting back together with her- I don't think he let go of that particular dream for literally decades.

Oh, I think he did. He loved the girl he'd lived with, which made it harder to be around the Stevie in FM.

I think he could have gotten back together with her many times, but he didn't like what she'd become and, like Stevie, he knew it wouldn't last. I don't think he ever stopped loving her, but he stopped liking her for awhile. When she said he was a man who just plain didn't like her, I think she was right. Love yes, being able to tolerate her presence on an ongoing basis? No. That's why he was able to cut ties for 10 years and stop even answering her calls.

Michele

[brickney723]

Oh, I think he did. He loved the girl he'd lived with, which made it harder to be around the Stevie in FM.

I think he could have gotten back together with her many times, but he didn't like what she'd become and, like Stevie, he knew it wouldn't last. I don't think he ever stopped loving her, but he stopped liking her for awhile. When she said he was a man who just plain didn't like her, I think she was right. Love yes, being able to tolerate her presence on an ongoing basis? No. That's why he was able to cut ties for 10 years and stop even answering her calls.

Michele

I don't think she was ever, at any point, willing to go back- as in live with him, monogamously, as a couple, as they did in the seventies. I think he was still in love with her for the better part of those years from 1977-1997. I think he didn't like her because he was bitter that she broke it off and would not come back in any real way. I think he cut ties with her because he could not get over her and he figured he needed to find a way to do that and get on with his life- and that the only way to do that was not to see her.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by brickney723
Though as far as harboring any dream of getting back together with her- I don't think he let go of that particular dream for literally decades.
Oh, I think he did. He loved the girl he'd lived with, which made it harder to be around the Stevie in FM.

I think he could have gotten back together with her many times, but he didn't like what she'd become and, like Stevie, he knew it wouldn't last. I don't think he ever stopped loving her, but he stopped liking her for awhile. When she said he was a man who just plain didn't like her, I think she was right. Love yes, being able to tolerate her presence on an ongoing basis? No. That's why he was able to cut ties for 10 years and stop even answering her calls.

Michele

I agree with both of these comments. I do think somewhere "in the back of his mind" Lindsey did think about "what if" they got back together. He imagined it with her being just as he wished her to be, and *that* fantasy held him for a loooong time. You just don't get sooo angry for sooo long at someone you've really gotten over.

At the same time, when he looked at the *reality* in front of him, not the fantasy in his head/heart, he saw what a mess Stevie was and how it would never work out with her in that state. I agree he realllly didn't like her during the time she was so out of control.

[michelej1]

I think he didn't like her because he was bitter that she broke it off and would not come back in any real way.

Yes, we differ there. I don't think he was bitter that she wouldn't come back. I don't think he wanted her back. I think he wanted her back. I mean, I think he missed the old Stevie, but didn't like the new one, because he thought she was kind of silly.

I think he didn't like her because he didn't like the coke-fueled personality. I mean, unlike Iovine, I don't think Lindsey was against cocaine per se. He was ok with drugs, but I think the hyper-coke Stevie was kind of alien to him and I don't think he cared for it. It's like on the bleachers when she is jumping up and down and he tugs at her top and tells her to sit, I think that was symbolic of the entire relationship at that point and she just got on his nerves.

By the time they came together for The Dance in 1997, I think he saw a different person and fell for that person all over again. But I don't think he wanted who she was in the eighties, he just pined for what had been lost.

Michele

[MrStevie]

I actually saw this new documentary tonight- In it Ken C talks about the Mirage era. He says at that time, both Lindsey AND John were "buzzing" around their respective exes with "old feelings" and it was upsetting to both women.. So yeah, it was obvious about Lindsey-


but who knew about John? Not me.

You would if you saw the uncut footage of Mirage promos made for MTV. :nod:

Exactly. I definitely think they were sleeping together off and on. I think he wanted

a real, monogamous relationship with her- that she was not willing to have ever again really.

Rubbish.:sorry: Too much evidence to the contrary.:wavey:

[brickney723]

There's a quote by Nicks from the first news conference after Lindsey's 1987 departure, I think in and of itself, it's very telling about the state of the situation.--

"Lindsey, he would rather I just stayed at home doing laundry. We are talking about a man who was in love with a woman and would just as soon she had faded out and just been his old lady or wife. Period." "Whooo," sighs Christine after a full five seconds of silence. Mick interjects, "That situation changed somewhat, in my opinion." Stevie narrows her eyes and says, "Not when it came down to the real thing. No, it never changed."

Also, in Mick's book he says when S & L had the big fight, that he didn't hear what he said, but that Stevie replied "you'll never be in love with anyone but yourself". I think what he had said based on that response was that he was still in love with her.

Also, soon after Stevie said it was nice being able to hang out with the new guys up at her house- which she could never do with Lindsey because they would always get on the topic of why they had broken up 12 years ago.

So, I mean and then just based on his music, which is pretty clear to me, he just could not let her go.

[brickney723]

Have you guys ever read that poem by Walt Whitman- Out of the Cradle, Endlessly Rocking?

[michelej1]

So, I mean and then just based on his music, which is pretty clear to me, he just could not let her go.


But he did let her go. And when she says she had to bully him into doing the Clinton inauguration, I don't think it was because he thought, "Oh, being so near to her and not being able to have her will kill me," I think it was because he was afraid that if she was still the person she was around the BTM appearances in 1990, then he didn't want to have anything to do with her. And it made him sad -- in much the same way Christine says that seeing Peter Green made her sad.

As for Stevie's press conference statements, I don't take her words as an accurate description of Lindsey's feelings. Then or now. But would he have been happy if they had joined FM and been able to remain a couple and "Hollywood" hadn't gotten between and changed them? Yes I think so. But that's not what happened.

Michele

[michelej1]

Have you guys ever read that poem by Walt Whitman- Out of the Cradle, Endlessly Rocking?

I've read that and Gift of Screws too. But I don't think OOTC (the title track and the whole album) has that much to do with Stevie. And even then (before I'd lost my own father and brother) I saw it really in a vein of mourning and being about family and creative dreams and aspirations, more than romantic ones.

Now, Under the Skin is a different story. I think that's largely about Stevie and the events leading up to his marriage.

Michele

[brickney723]

But he did let her go. And when she says she had to bully him into doing the Clinton inauguration, I don't think it was because he thought, "Oh, being so near to her and not being able to have her will kill me," I think it was because he was afraid that if she was still the person she was around the BTM appearances in 1990, then he didn't want to have anything to do with her. And it made him sad -- in much the same way Christine says that seeing Peter Green made her sad.

As for Stevie's press conference statements, I don't take her words as an accurate description of Lindsey's feelings. Then or now. But would he have been happy if they had joined FM and been able to remain a couple and "Hollywood" hadn't gotten between and changed them? Yes I think so. But that's not what happened.

Michele

I don't he ever let her go emotionally at all. I think he left FM because he could not have her the way he wanted her and it was driving him to the brink. I think the only reason he did the Clinton thing was because it was so important to her.

[brickney723]

I've read that and Gift of Screws too. But I don't think OOTC (the title track and the whole album) has that much to do with Stevie. And even then (before I'd lost my own father and brother) I saw it really in a vein of mourning and being about family and creative dreams and aspirations, more than romantic ones.

Now, Under the Skin is a different story. I think that's largely about Stevie and the events leading up to his marriage.

Michele

See, I think OOTC, is MOSTLY about her. There is some of it about his Dad and brother.

[michelej1]

See, I think OOTC, is MOSTLY about her. There is some of it about his Dad and brother.

And that's the difference. You think the Whitman poem is about the male and female relationship and I think it is about DEATH. Death and creative birth. So, from that perspective, I'm not going to perceive it as being too much about Stevie at all. I think I can see more about Mick in it than about Stevie.

But yeah, I do give her Under the Skin, title track and most of the album.

Michele

[michelej1]

Oh, but as far as birds go, I always thought it was funny when Stevie was talking about the swans in her video and said they mated for life, but were constantly fighting with each other. That reminded me of SnL.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

I saw it really in a vein of mourning and being about family and creative dreams and aspirations, more than romantic ones.


Totally agree with this.

[bombaysaffires]

I don't he ever let her go emotionally at all.

And this..

[brickney723]

And that's the difference. You think the Whitman poem is about the male and female relationship and I think it is about DEATH. Death and creative birth. So, from that perspective, I'm not going to perceive it as being too much about Stevie at all. I think I can see more about Mick in it than about Stevie.

But yeah, I do give her Under the Skin, title track and most of the album.

Michele

Oh, but I do think it's about death from his perspective, the death of a dream. The dream of being with her.

[michelej1]

I don't he ever let her go emotionally at all. I think he left FM because he could not have her the way he wanted her and it was driving him to the brink.

Yes, I don't think the heartbeat was driving him all that mad thinking about what he had and what he lost. I think he was being driven crazy by his and everyone's manic behavior and not being able to make the music he wanted, for the reasons he wanted. I think he was sad for Stevie (and Mick) too, but not pining for her in a romantic sense.

But I do think as they headed into the Dance that he got to thinking about Stevie romantically again after that, so we got those pre-concert videos where he is kissing her multiple times and being like a school boy. I think there was a resurgence of interest.

Michele

[brickney723]

But you know, I agree he is also dealing with the death of his dad and brother on that album.. but you know- Just Say We'll Meet Again, This Nearly Was Mine, All My Sorrows, the song where he's talking to his father at his grave- he's talking to him about Stevie.

[michelej1]

Oh, but I do think it's about death from his perspective, the death of a dream. The dream of being with her.

Ha. See that's just funny to me. If you made that argument about CAD I might agree with you there though. But to see OOTC in that way ... I never could understand that.

Michele

[brickney723]

Yes, I don't think the heartbeat was driving him all that mad thinking about what he had and what he lost. I think he was being driven crazy by his and everyone's manic behavior and not being able to make the music he wanted, for the reasons he wanted. I think he was sad for Stevie (and Mick) too, but not pining for her in a romantic sense.

But I do think as they headed into the Dance that he got to thinking about Stevie romantically again after that, so we got those pre-concert videos where he is kissing her multiple times and being like a school boy. I think there was a resurgence of interest.

Michele

When he's candid, he'll admit the real reason he left was because he needed separation from her- the personal addictions/ habits and creative differences played a more minor part.

[brickney723]

Here are some quotes from 1992 OOTC interview: Spoken and instrumental interludes serve as unexpected doorways to some of the songs, and in one of them, Buckingham hints at the emotional upheavals of the last decade:I`ve got to stop this obsession of revenge and fear -I`ve been running from everything that I once held dear-And it feels so cold; it feels like sin-I`ve got to stop this obsession and start living again.`I certainly don`t feel that way now, but there were times that I questioned my reasons for making the type of music I was,`` he says. ``There were things lingering for years having to do with relationships and the band, hurtful things, that were impossible to deal with until I left. If you were in a relationship and split up, then had to see that person every day for the next 15 years, it might keep you from dealing with some of those things.``While we made `Rumours` (in 1977) there were two couples breaking up in the band (Buckingham and Nicks, and John and Christine McVie), and we had to say, `This is an important thing we`re doing, so we`ve got to put this set of feelings on this side of the room and get on with it. “And when you do that long enough you forget that those feelings are even there.``On this album, I`m putting all these feelings in the healthiest possible perspective and that, looking at it broadly, is a lot of what the album is dealing with. It`s a catharsis, absolutely.”

[michelej1]

When he's candid, he'll admit the real reason he left was because he needed separation from her- the personal addictions/ habits and creative differences played a more minor part.

I don't think the personal addictions/habits and creative differences are something you can separate from Stevie. At any rate, if Lindsey was a person whose exclusive motivation in music and life was Stevie, I actually think the whole FM history would have played out a lot differently than it did. Michele

[brickney723]

I don't think the personal addictions/habits and creative differences are something you can separate from Stevie. At any rate, if Lindsey was a person whose exclusive motivation in music and life was Stevie, I actually think the whole FM history would have played out a lot differently than it did. Michele

Yeah, I actually do think she was his biggest motivation in music and life for a really long time.

[MrStevie]

I don't think the personal addictions/habits and creative differences are something you can separate from Stevie. At any rate, if Lindsey was a person whose exclusive motivation in music and life was Stevie, I actually think the whole FM history would have played out a lot differently than it did. Michele

"It Takes Time" ?:shrug:

[elle]

There's a quote by Nicks from the first news conference after Lindsey's 1987 departure, I think in and of itself, it's very telling about the state of the situation.--

if you look at the quotes so many provide to base their assessment of that relationship, >90% come from just one side - SN. that is problematic. if you are trying to understand what's going on, you cannot continually take just one side's story. it may be just her justification why it didn't work out, and wanting to look like the one with the upper hand. many people in relationships, ongoing or finished, want to present themselves as having the upper hand. all SN's statements strike me us her being that way too. and that's perfectly fine, but it also means you cannot take what she says as objective truth.

she said "lindsey only loved himself" or "he only loved his guitar" - that probably harks back to Christine's recent description of his past behavior, as asperger-ish, or somewhere on the spectrum. singular interest. Michele elaborated nicely on that in the past few days.

Lindsey said their relationship was on the rocks during BN phase. Stevie said that too. Landslide and Monday Morning are clearly about that. if they haven't joined FM and became hugely successful, maybe they would have had a clean break at some point and went on their way. or had kids or messy life together, who knows. Stevie doesn't strike me as a person who would ever be happy with just quiet domesticated life, and as a woman i can fully understand that. :shrug:

as they both said, but especially Lindsey, it was hard being broken up but never having a closure and a clean break because you had to see that person 24/7. of course you would be frustrated. there are little snippets in Carol's book about SN trying to reel him back in from time to time. however badly written, those snippets ring very true, human, and typical of so many relationships.

it may easily be that SN didn't really want to be with LB, but she also didn't want anybody else to have him. she wanted him to always be there in the background for her, in reserve. many people are like that, it's not that unusual. "what makes you think i'm the one?" right? you wanna know this person will always be there to fall back on, that you will always be loved, but you want to come and go and use him as you please. so every time he'd try to make a break, she'd reel him back in...

then he finally made a break. had a family. he finally got over her as far as any coupledom is concerned, however much he still cares for her and loves her and the road they traveled together. he's not angry anymore. he's calm. and she doesn't have him on her back and call whenever she wants to anymore. that must be frustrating. plus she is getting older... so she's giving all these statements saying what all his regrets supposedly are. not hers. that's interesting, no? goes back to where i started, wanting to look like you are the one with the upper hand in the relationship. and he doesn't seems to care either way about what she says. any pent up or leftover feelings, he vents out in his art. he seems to be in a very stable place in his life, where he can emit love towards others and just putting up with their quirks, for the most part. at least that's what he projects, these days.


to go back on topic - why not Christine and John, but Lindsey and Stevie generate so much attention? besides all the stuff many people listed here already, there is one other point that occurred to me, and i think you brought it up, too, brickney. Stevie Nicks, besides her 6 or so years with Lindsey, never had a lasting stable relationship in her life, as far as we know. Lindsey hinted in one recent interview that maybe moving around as a kid so much and having to prove herself to new people over and over may have scared her in some way. John, Lindsey, and Christine all had other lasting and stable relationships with other people, not just with each other. so if there was never anybody else for a significant period of time, coupled with their songs and all Stevie's statements of wanting to be a power couple, it is easy to project and speculate. :)


just my 0.02. i may be completely off, like everybody else. :cool:

[michelej1]

This is an important thing we`re doing, so we`ve got to put this set of feelings on this side of the room and get on with it. “And when you do that long enough you forget that those feelings are even there.``On this album, I`m putting all these feelings in the healthiest possible perspective and that, looking at it broadly, is a lot of what the album is dealing with. It`s a catharsis, absolutely.”

This would suggest that while he was in the band, all of the songs he wrote were not about the relationship you think OOTC is about, since he was forgetting that those feelings were even there. I don't buy it.

But I do agree that once he left the band he was able to be more positive and healthy about his feelings for Stevie. That's why you got Say Goodbye, written before he now thinks it was written.

Michele

[michelej1]

Yeah, I actually do think she was his biggest motivation in music and life for a really long time.

And I don't. I think maybe they could have had a smoother, less volatile relationship if she was, whether as lovers or just bandmates.

I do think she's his great romantic love, but I also don't think that romantic love is his strongest motivator.

Michele

[brickney723]

Elle, I pretty much agree with everything you said.

[bombaysaffires]

if you look at the quotes so many provide to base their assessment of that relationship, >90% come from just one side - SN. that is problematic. if you are trying to understand what's going on, you cannot continually take just one side's story. it may be just her justification why it didn't work out, and wanting to look like the one with the upper hand. many people in relationships, ongoing or finished, want to present themselves as having the upper hand. all SN's statements strike me us her being that way too. and that's perfectly fine, but it also means you cannot take what she says as objective truth.

she said "lindsey only loved himself" or "he only loved his guitar" - that probably harks back to Christine's recent description of his past behavior, as asperger-ish, or somewhere on the spectrum. singular interest. Michele elaborated nicely on that in the past few days.

Lindsey said their relationship was on the rocks during BN phase. Stevie said that too. Landslide and Monday Morning are clearly about that. if they haven't joined FM and became hugely successful, maybe they would have had a clean break at some point and went on their way. or had kids or messy life together, who knows. Stevie doesn't strike me as a person who would ever be happy with just quiet domesticated life, and as a woman i can fully understand that. :shrug:

as they both said, but especially Lindsey, it was hard being broken up but never having a closure and a clean break because you had to see that person 24/7. of course you would be frustrated. there are little snippets in Carol's book about SN trying to reel him back in from time to time. however badly written, those snippets ring very true, human, and typical of so many relationships.

it may easily be that SN didn't really want to be with LB, but she also didn't want anybody else to have him. she wanted him to always be there in the background for her, in reserve. many people are like that, it's not that unusual. "what makes you think i'm the one?" right? you wanna know this person will always be there to fall back on, that you will always be loved, but you want to come and go and use him as you please. so every time he'd try to make a break, she'd reel him back in...

then he finally made a break. had a family. he finally got over her as far as any coupledom is concerned, however much he still cares for her and loves her and the road they traveled together. he's not angry anymore. he's calm. and she doesn't have him on her back and call whenever she wants to anymore. that must be frustrating. plus she is getting older... so she's giving all these statements saying what all his regrets supposedly are. not hers. that's interesting, no? goes back to where i started, wanting to look like you are the one with the upper hand in the relationship. and he doesn't seems to care either way about what she says. any pent up or leftover feelings, he vents out in his art. he seems to be in a very stable place in his life, where he can emit love towards others and just putting up with their quirks, for the most part. at least that's what he projects, these days.


to go back on topic - why not Christine and John, but Lindsey and Stevie generate so much attention? besides all the stuff many people listed here already, there is one other point that occurred to me, and i think you brought it up, too, brickney. Stevie Nicks, besides her 6 or so years with Lindsey, never had a lasting stable relationship in her life, as far as we know. Lindsey hinted in one recent interview that maybe moving around as a kid so much and having to prove herself to new people over and over may have scared her in some way. John, Lindsey, and Christine all had other lasting and stable relationships with other people, not just with each other. so if there was never anybody else for a significant period of time, coupled with their songs and all Stevie's statements of wanting to be a power couple, it is easy to project and speculate. :)


just my 0.02. i may be completely off, like everybody else. :cool:


I think your tuppence is spot on!

[MrStevie]

Lindsey hinted in one recent interview that maybe moving around as a kid so much and having to prove herself to new people over and over may have scared her in some way.

just my 0.02. i may be completely off, like everybody else. :cool:

I don't think completely off. I agree with a lot of what you said. The only thing I would add is a comment on the quote above. I moved all the time as a kid. I had to prove myself to new people over and over. It made me cherish monogamy, stability, and family so much that I'd do anything to keep those things from the crazy cyclone of show business. I could never see myself in that career, while it was her destiny. :angel:

:wavey:

[bombaysaffires]

Here are some quotes from 1992 OOTC interview: Spoken and instrumental interludes serve as unexpected doorways to some of the songs, and in one of them, Buckingham hints at the emotional upheavals of the last decade:I`ve got to stop this obsession of revenge and fear -I`ve been running from everything that I once held dear-And it feels so cold; it feels like sin-I`ve got to stop this obsession and start living again.`I certainly don`t feel that way now, but there were times that I questioned my reasons for making the type of music I was,`` he says. ``There were things lingering for years having to do with relationships and the band, hurtful things, that were impossible to deal with until I left. If you were in a relationship and split up, then had to see that person every day for the next 15 years, it might keep you from dealing with some of those things.``While we made `Rumours` (in 1977) there were two couples breaking up in the band (Buckingham and Nicks, and John and Christine McVie), and we had to say, `This is an important thing we`re doing, so we`ve got to put this set of feelings on this side of the room and get on with it. “And when you do that long enough you forget that those feelings are even there.``On this album, I`m putting all these feelings in the healthiest possible perspective and that, looking at it broadly, is a lot of what the album is dealing with. It`s a catharsis, absolutely.”

I just don't think the struggles Lindsey had within FM were exclusive to Stevie. There's the well-documented tension between his artistic ambitions and the band's business/profits ambitions. There was the struggle generally to be a collaborator not a dictator. Even Keith Olsen said recently that he brought BN into the studio and was working to introduce LB to the concept of working with other musicians and not just doing it all yourself. There was the reported quote from someone in the band--was it Christine? John? Someone must remember better than I-- to LB "maybe you just don't want to be in a band"... There's his relationship with John, often tense. His relationship with Mick-- which I think is one of the most interesting and complex in the whole band and which doesn't get as much discussion and perhaps dissection as it merits... there is one COMPLICATED friendship there. So I think OOTC was about ALL that stuff--- freeing himself from the band and EVERYTHING that that entailed, which of course, included Stevie, but so much more.

[brickney723]

I mean I think it's a great, great, incredible love story- I do. But only from one side. I don't think he was in any way to her what she was to him. I hope for him to be really happy with his life the way it is because I think he's suffered and I think he deserves it.

[Lindsfan]

His relationship with Mick-- which I think is one of the most interesting and complex in the whole band and which doesn't get as much discussion and perhaps dissection as it merits... there is one COMPLICATED friendship there. So I think OOTC was about ALL that stuff--- freeing himself from the band and EVERYTHING that that entailed, which of course, included Stevie, but so much more.

I've always been fascinated by them as well. I know John is Mick's best friend, but Lindsey and Mick seem almost more like brothers in a way. I find their relationship totally endearing. Here's a neat interview from a few years back, that you may like:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/how-we-met-mick-fleetwood-and-lindsey-buckingham-1149147.html

[bombaysaffires]

I've always been fascinated by them as well. I know John is Mick's best friend, but Lindsey and Mick seem almost more like brothers in a way. I find their relationship totally endearing. Here's a neat interview from a few years back, that you may like:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/how-we-met-mick-fleetwood-and-lindsey-buckingham-1149147.html

this is great, thanks for sharing it. I had not seen it. They do seem to know each other pretty well, don't they? It's nice to see they have come to accept their own and each other's foibles much better these days.

[michelej1]

to LB "maybe you just don't want to be in a band"...

I remember that Mick said to him that he was in a band -- like he had to remind him.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

this is great, thanks for sharing it. I had not seen it. They do seem to know each other pretty well, don't they? It's nice to see they have come to accept their own and each other's foibles much better these days.

Yes, even now, whether during m&gs, or when he introduces the band near the end of the show, you can tell Mick has a special fondness, as well as admiration, for Lindsey. And that goes both ways. You see it again and again in videos from this last year, the way they smile and laugh back and forth. It's pretty great, and so nice to see.

[michelej1]

Yes, even now, whether during m&gs, or when he introduces the band near the end of the show, you can tell Mick has a special fondness, as well as admiration, for Lindsey. And that goes both ways. You see it again and again in videos from this last year, the way they smile and laugh back and forth. It's pretty great, and so nice to see.

And in the past when he would introduce Lindsey, Lindsey would slide over to him and Mick would kiss him right on the cheek every night. Pretty cute.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

And in the past when he would introduce Lindsey, Lindsey would slide over to him and Mick would kiss him right on the cheek every night. Pretty cute.

Michele

Aww, now that's what I'm talking about. Those two are adorable!!

[brickney723]

They seem to have a great relationship these days. I've always found it so interesting that LB publicly maintains, as per that article, that he had no problem with Mick sleeping with Nicks back in the day.. when he so clearly did.

[Johnny Stew]

and she doesn't have him on her back and call whenever she wants to anymore. that must be frustrating. plus she is getting older... so she's giving all these statements saying what all his regrets supposedly are. not hers. that's interesting, no? goes back to where i started, wanting to look like you are the one with the upper hand in the relationship.

I no longer have an encyclopedic knowledge of the band members' various quotes, etc., like I used to, but I know that Stevie's definitely mentioned her regrets as well.

For one example, I recall her saying just a few years back that she sometimes looks at Lindsey and thinks, "Oh, Stevie, you made such a mistake."

She's made other comments to that effect, too.

I do agree, however, that she has often implied he had a harder time getting over her than she did getting over him. Which could be a degree of denial on her part, or it could be ego-driven as you said, or it could just simply be true.

[jbrownsjr]

They seem to have a great relationship these days. I've always found it so interesting that LB publicly maintains, as per that article, that he had no problem with Mick sleeping with Nicks back in the day.. when he so clearly did.

Yeah, I did not buy that either.

[nicole21290]

Oh, but as far as birds go, I always thought it was funny when Stevie was talking about the swans in her video and said they mated for life, but were constantly fighting with each other. That reminded me of SnL.

Michele

Late to the party but...

Yes, the swans who mate for life - they marry and they fight a lot but they're still married. Every Day actually reminded me of something else the first time I watched it, though...

[michelej1]

Late to the party but...

Yes, the swans who mate for life - they marry and they fight a lot but they're still married. Every Day actually reminded me of something else the first time I watched it, though...

Lindsey likes necks and Stevie was beheaded in a previous life. Coincidence? I think not.

Anyway, I think of it as a marriage. All of it really.

That's why Lindsey should go ahead and finish Deep Dense for me. It's my anthem!:)

Michele

[elle]

Lindsey likes necks and Stevie was beheaded in a previous life. Coincidence? I think not.

Anyway, I think of it as a marriage. All of it really.

That's why Lindsey should go ahead and finish Deep Dense for me. It's my anthem!:)

Michele

yes. i was just thinking of it today "Every time I try to let it go, it keeps comin' back again."

or even better, just make available that great version he already has. for me.

Deep Dense live is my standing request for him, whether solo or FM. :p