You Make Fighting Fun (The Daily Fail)

[nicole21290]

This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and...

SOURCE: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2529544/Fleetwood-Mac-You-make-fighting-fun-OK-Lindsey-Buckingham-admits-I-did-kick-Stevie-Nicks-Fleetwood-Mac-settling-old-scores.html

Despite the acrimony and excesses, and after 45 years as soft rock’s favourite soap opera, the legendary band have reunited

Fleetwood Mac are fighting again. Rock-star fur is flying. But this is no ordinary argument.

For one thing, the contretemps is being conducted in three different countries.
Stevie Nicks fights her corner from an elegant apartment in Paris, Lindsey Buckingham boxes clever in his Californian study and Christine McVie counterpunches from her riverside penthouse in London.

Founder band members Mick Fleetwood and John McVie are keeping out of it. Fleetwood is licking his wounds after his fourth divorce and McVie is in hospital engaged in a more serious battle, with cancer.

The disagreement, believe it or not, concerns one of Fleetwood Mac’s few physical altercations.After 45 years of soft rock’s favourite soap opera, it’s astonishing that the players haven’t come to blows more often.

‘I was dancing on stage,’ begins Nicks, now 65, in the salon of her rented Parisian pied-à-terre. ‘It was the Tusk tour, 1980, Auckland, New Zealand. I was doing my thing with my shawl and Lindsey pulled his jacket up over his head and started mimicking me, behind my back. I thought, “Well, that’s not working for me.” But I didn’t do anything. This must have infuriated him, because he came over and kicked me. And I’d never had anyone be physical with me in my life. Then he picked up a black Les Paul guitar and he just frisbee’d it at me. He missed, I ducked – but he could have killed me.’

‘I’m not sure that happened,’ Buckingham, 64, states flatly at his gated LA estate.

‘Oh, it happened, all right,’ asserts Christine McVie, 70, drinking in a glorious view of the Thames. ‘I threw a glass of wine in his face.’

It was always the friction within Fleetwood Mac that produced the most magical music. The pristine production sheen of 1977’s gazillion-selling Rumours concealed a cauldron of simmering tensions and churning passions. They were an airport novel come to life, and with a sensational soundtrack. Famously, during the recording of Rumours, chiffoned hippy siren Nicks split with Buckingham, her boyfriend of several years, and, after nearly a decade of marriage, Christine and John McVie stopped talking to each other, except to discuss musical matters.

And some of the songs – Go Your Own Way, You Make Loving Fun, Dreams – were pretty brutal. ‘It was tough stuff,’ admits Christine McVie. ‘But you had to sing about the emotions you were feeling at the time. It was hands-on-the-table honest.’

‘Stevie and I weren’t even estranged; we just weren’t a couple any more,’ recalls Buckingham. 'But none of us had the luxury of time and distance to allow for closure. And that’s what a shrink will tell you helps us to heal. So it was difficult on a lot of levels. Very difficult.’

August 7, 1987 was an especially difficult day. According to Mick Fleetwood’s memoirs, a meeting was called to discuss Buckingham’s decision to quit touring, and Nicks remonstrated aggressively with her former boyfriend. As she set about Buckingham, he screamed, ‘Get this bitch out of my way. And f*** the lot of you!’

The fracas, Fleetwood claims, culminated in Buckingham slapping her and bending her over the bonnet of a car, before storming off shouting, ‘You’re a bunch of selfish b******s.’

‘That was in the courtyard of my house,’ Christine McVie concurs. ‘There was a bit of a physical fight, and she wasn’t beating him up. It wasn’t nice.’

‘There wasn’t any physical violence,’ contends Buckingham. ‘It was an unpleasant situation that day, but you have to ask yourself the question, if someone is beating on your chest because they don’t want you to leave, isn’t that in a way kind of flattering?’

The level of acrimony the incident suggests begs another question: despite Buckingham and Nicks having put on a united front for their latest UK shows, during which they held hands, hugged and generally behaved civilly towards each other, have they ever actually agreed on anything?

‘That’s a very funny question,’ Buckingham laughs. ‘I don’t know how much we ever did agree. I’m trying to be tactful here, but there was never a huge set of sensibilities that we had in common.’

Of course, what the members of Fleetwood Mac did have in common – supernaturally inspired songwriting aside – was a fondness for drink and drugs. Cocaine and Champagne was their cocktail of choice. ‘Well, they go hand in hand, don’t they?’ shrugs McVie. ‘When we were in Sausalito making Rumours, the boys would be doing these huge rails of coke while Stevie and I would be in our own place with our little bottles of coke, with tiny coke-spoons that we’d wear on delicate chains around our necks. Very ladylike – much more refined – and actually fairly acceptable at the time. Inevitably, late at night the boys would run out and come looking for ours.’

And is it true that during their private-jet-and-pink-hotel-suite years, Fleetwood Mac would take cocaine while they were performing on stage? ‘Absolutely,’ confirms Nicks. ‘We thought that’s what entertainers did in order to maintain that level of activity and creativity.’

‘Mick had this rotating platform covered with beer-bottle caps full of coke so he could snort away as he was playing,’ marvels McVie. ‘At least us ladies would slip off stage for a discreet toot.’

‘You know, I never bought cocaine,’ Buckingham sniffs. ‘There were other people in the band who may have done that.’

Indeed there were. And they bought it by the boatload. Cocaine became synonymous with the Fleetwood Mac brand (Mick Fleetwood reportedly wanted to give their drug dealer a credit on Rumours). But by the mid-Eighties, the comedown had kicked in. ‘And,’ says Nicks, ‘the payback was a complete bitch.’

Nicks went to the Betty Ford clinic in 1986 to be treated for cocaine addiction. She then spent eight years hooked on the prescription tranquillizer Klonopin. She gained weight, her hair turned grey, she shed her skin, her ‘life force died’. Addicted to various substances and making bad business decisions, Mick Fleetwood went bankrupt.

Lindsey Buckingham had his own meltdown (documented on the rather brilliant Tusk album, replete with what Nicks cruelly refers to as ‘his bizarre ideas and weird little guitar solos’). Christine and John McVie, by their own admission, ‘drank far too much for far too long’.

Dark days followed, but disintegration and personal loss were nothing new to Fleetwood Mac. This, after all, was the tenth incarnation of a group that had already survived the departure of seven members, including Peter Green, the British blues guru who formed the band in 1967. ‘I had a real crush on Peter,’ admits McVie. ‘I had my eye on him. He was so charismatic and funny, sharp as a tack. And, as we know, he was slightly good at playing the guitar, which was enormously seductive.’

Green left the band, and indeed the planet, following an LSD overdose in Munich in 1970. He would never be the same man again. So began the ‘curse of the Fleetwood Mac guitarist’, with several unfortunate musicians ending up damaged or deceased. Lindsey Buckingham says, ‘There have been times when I’ve feared for my own well-being in the great scheme of things, because historically the track record has not been kind to the guitar players in this band.’

‘I met Peter Green recently,’ McVie says solemnly. ‘He came backstage after the London show I guested at. I sat down with him and he ate some of the buffet food, but he didn’t really speak and there was nothing in his eyes. No response. It was difficult and very sad.’

Darkness has descended in Paris. Stevie Nicks, wearing black silk and tinted glasses, is sitting in the shadows talking with calm candour about her love life. ‘I didn’t want to fall in love with Mick,’ she says of the band’s lanky drummer. ‘I had the attitude that you didn’t need to go after someone’s husband who had two children. So I felt awful, awful, awful. Then Mick fell in love with my friend Sara. That was not a good thing. But I always considered Mick one of the great loves of my life.’

Having extensively road-tested men – she has had affairs with Eagles Don Henley and Joe Walsh, producers Rupert Hine and Jimmy Iovine and even politician Jerry Brown – has Nicks ever considered women? ‘Oh no,’ she frowns, sitting bolt upright. ‘I’m not gay. I could never do that. I like men way too much. That would never work for me. I do love men. But I’m happy being single now. I don’t want to be in a relationship. I can do whatever I want. I’m in control. But if the man of my dreams were to walk in right now, then all that s*** I just said would go straight out that window into the Seine.’

In LA, Lindsey Buckingham sighs: ‘I seldom look back. Living in the present is more important to me now. I’m very fortunate. I have an amazing wife and three beautiful children, and that certainly makes you less obsessive about your art as a musician – which I’ve always felt was more like painting than anything. And I’m sure there were times when I became a little unbearable and demanding in trying to make those pictures perfect. But I guess there will always be things you’ve done that you regret having done.’

Beside the Thames, Christine McVie is in buoyant mood. It’s six weeks since she made a surprise appearance on stage with Fleetwood Mac at London’s O2 Arena on September 25, an experience she ‘enjoyed immensely – not quite to the point of being tearful, but it felt really good and completely natural’.

Although in late October the band were forced to cancel the Australasian leg of their tour due to John McVie’s urgent cancer treatment, the grapevine remains abuzz with gossip. Bookmakers have long since suspended betting on Fleetwood Mac headlining Glastonbury 2014 (Macstonbury!), and despite Buckingham’s reservations about her temporarily rejoining (‘She can’t just come and go’), Christine’s cameo has fuelled hopes of a ‘classic Mac’ reunion next year. ‘Lindsey can be difficult and a bit of a control freak,’ she says. ‘But that’s his job, and that, for better or worse, is his character. And he has mellowed over the years.’

McVie reluctantly acknowledges that her voice, piano and presence make the band somehow complete. Without her, Fleetwood Mac serve up a satisfying set of ingredients, but she is the sauce that unifies them. ‘The gravy?’ she suggests. ‘I think we all sensed that.’ As for Fleetwood Mac’s future recording plans, McVie lets slip that she has recently written new songs for the band. ‘I sent them to Lindsey and he loved them,’ she reveals. ‘You could hear his mind whirring, figuring how he could improve them, Mac them up.’

Then out of the blue, in that honeyed voice, she starts to sing. ‘We’ve only just begun…’

[WildHearted]

The way this interview was set-up was so hilarious and transparent to me. They basically would have Christine/Stevie make a statement which Stevie/Christine would reiterate or agree with and then Lindsey would be like, "Nope!" and somehow contradict it and/or deny it. :lol:

I have an amazing wife and three beautiful children, and that certainly makes you less obsessive about your art as a musician – which I’ve always felt was more like painting than anything.

Lindsey is REALLY trying to push this painting metaphor in anywhere he possibly can, isn't he? This is getting ridiculous.

McVie lets slip that she has recently written new songs for the band. ‘I sent them to Lindsey and he loved them,’ she reveals. ‘You could hear his mind whirring, figuring how he could improve them, Mac them up.’

Please let my dream of a new FM album become a reality. Please.

[FM77]

It is always fun to hear new perspectives on the old stories. The Australia fight, the Tango tour fight. I hope we get to hear Christine's new songs. She really does write the best hooks.

[louielouie2000]

What an interesting article... it almost reads more like a sordid novel. I love it! :thumbsup:

It's interesting that Christine has sent her newly recorded songs to Lindsey, and that he seems to be very interested in them. I wasn't aware things had progressed to that point yet. It's very reassuring. :nod:

[vivfox]

Great article. I really think we are going to be blessed with a new Fleetwood Mac album recorded by our precious 5 Fire Flies.

[Johnny Stew]

As for Fleetwood Mac’s future recording plans, McVie lets slip that she has recently written new songs for the band. ‘I sent them to Lindsey and he loved them,’ she reveals. ‘You could hear his mind whirring, figuring how he could improve them, Mac them up.’

The whole article made for an entertaining read, but that, right there, has me grinning from ear to ear.

As long as John's health improves (and that's certainly more important than anything else), I do believe this is going to happen, kids!

Thanks for sharing the article, nicole21290.

[SteveMacD]

:]

Justin Bieber retires AND Christine McVie unretires...Happy New Year to me!!!

[michelej1]

It's interesting that Christine has sent her newly recorded songs to Lindsey, and that he seems to be very interested in them. I wasn't aware things had progressed to that point yet. It's very reassuring. :nod:

It nicely confirms what people thought about the songs she'd written being Mac songs. Some fans caught that in her interview many weeks ago.

Michele

[Mr Scarrott]

Well, the new album and tour will just have to happen now, I guess. John's health willing, they're priming the media for it. The worst news was the snippet about Peter:

‘I met Peter Green recently,’ McVie says solemnly. ‘He came backstage after the London show I guested at. I sat down with him and he ate some of the buffet food, but he didn’t really speak and there was nothing in his eyes. No response. It was difficult and very sad.’

I suppose I'm not suprised, but sad to read this. I saw him play in London 17 years ago and thought there was still a glint in his eyes then. That's a long time ago, I grant you, even in the geological time frame that the Mac exists in.

[Dex]

What an interesting article... it almost reads more like a sordid novel. I love it! :thumbsup:


Haha. I agree! When the Daily Mail isn't courting outrage over immigration and "political correctness gone mad", its knack for writing really readable material shines through, and I can see why it's so popular. This was a fun read. The only thing I sort of took issue with was the odd out-of-the-blue question about Stevie's sexual orientation. Where did that come from? :shrug: Did they ask Lindsey the same question? I'm willing to bet they didn't.

It's great news to see that a new FM album seems to genuinely be getting rolling! I'm just crossing my fingers that everything keeps up as it's going, and perhaps that they might get someone outside to co-produce the album with Lindsey.

:]

Justin Bieber retires AND Christine McVie unretires...Happy New Year to me!!!

This made me smile, but sadly I don't think you can put too much stock in Justin Bieber's retirement announcement. I imagine he'll find out pretty quickly that he isn't really equipped to do much else in the world after being "Justin Bieber" for so long. I predict a new album from him probably before we see anything else from the Mac, studio-wise.

[Ulpian]

I loathe the Daily Mail, but enjoyed this article. How exciting that Christine has sent Lindsey some songs!

Hope John gets well, so that they can get going again as a five piece. :]

[MoonSister75]

I loathe the Daily Mail, but enjoyed this article. How exciting that Christine has sent Lindsey some songs!

Hope John gets well, so that they can get going again as a five piece. :]

Agreed on all of the above. I nearly bought a copy of the Daily Mail whilst I was out today, just to see the pictures with this article, but its such an awful paper I couldn't do it.

All in all very exciting news. Christine sounds so upbeat its wonderful :]

[wheart]

I loathe the Daily Mail, but enjoyed this article. How exciting that Christine has sent Lindsey some songs!

Hope John gets well, so that they can get going again as a five piece. :]

very exciting indeed. I'm a little surprised that she's gone as far as sending LB songs. I thought she was working on a solo album?? Hmmm. Still, what a fantastic way to start 2014...even if it doesn't pan out, I, for one have a whole lot of hope in my heart right now! "I never did believe in magic...but I've a feeling it's time to try..."

[aleuzzi]

Love that Christine has the last words--a parody of The Carpenters's hit. She hasn't lost her wry wit.

I also love that she flat out calls Lindsey a control freak. We all know this, but her candor is refreshing.

Why, oh, why was Stevie asked if she was a lesbian? I know she's appealing to both genders but so is Lindsey and, as someone else mentioned here, he was NOT asked if he preferred men.

[BLY]

I believe this is going to happen in 2014, a new Fleetwood Mac album with all 5. It's a perfect storm. Stevie just needs to get three of hers songs picked and Lindsey can start his magic. His tracks are are done and just need to add Christine and Stevie to the mix. I also think a good move would be to release Buckingham Nicks as a way to get the word out about the first studio Fleetwood Mac album in 27 years with Mick, John, Christine, Lindsey and Stevie.

[bombaysaffires]

Love how Christine and Stevie corroborate their versions of events and Lindsey's differing recollections stand out. Wonder if Lindsey's nervous about having that collective feminine energy back in the band...:eek:

Interesting, on the Daily Mail site today the headline of this article reads: You make fighting fun: OK, Lindsey Buckingham admits, I did kick Stevie Nicks... Fleetwood Mac are back... and still settling old scores

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2529544/Fleetwood-Mac-You-make-fighting-fun-OK-Lindsey-Buckingham-admits-I-did-kick-Stevie-Nicks-Fleetwood-Mac-settling-old-scores.html#ixzz2otULU8Mt

[vivfox]

It just occurred to me that because Christine sent Lindsey her songs, she has every reason to believe that Lindsey will be producing the next FM record. Will Stevie still want to have an outside producer co-produce with Lindsey or will she allow LB to simply take the reins as he has in the past?

[BLY]

I think Lindsey will be a co producer on this project. I'm not sure who he will bring in but Lindsey will have his hands in the production. (Good thing IMO)

[jbrownsjr]

I would love it if they brought Ken and Richard in to produce. It would be a great and familiar atmosphere for all of them.

[BLY]

I agree... Again it would be a great way to market the new disc.

[jbrownsjr]

As for Fleetwood Mac’s future recording plans, McVie lets slip that she has recently written new songs for the band.


When Ken asked, "A new solo album?" and she responded, "There might be."

I knew she intended the tunes to be for FM. Also, Christine stated that she had played them for people. I had envisioned that it was Stevie, Mick, and Lindsey.

[Macfanforever]

Reading the title of this thread reminds me of Weird Al Yankovic FM remix.

[michelej1]

I knew she intended the tunes to be for FM. Also, Christine stated that she had played them for people. I had envisioned that it was Stevie, Mick, and Lindsey.

Yes, I am giving you and Elle points for that. You never thought she did the songs for a solo album.

Michele

[Ulpian]

As for Fleetwood Mac’s future recording plans, McVie lets slip that she has recently written new songs for the band.


When Ken asked, "A new solo album?" and she responded, "There might be."

I knew she intended the tunes to be for FM. Also, Christine stated that she had played them for people. I had envisioned that it was Stevie, Mick, and Lindsey.

Do we think that a plan is already in motion for an album, then, and that they're just keeping it quiet for now?

[gssmith]

I also believe Christine will rejoin next year! Never thought it would ever happen. So excited!

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, I am giving you and Elle points for that. You never thought she did the songs for a solo album.

Michele

I just couldn't see her recording an album and then forming a band and touring by herself.

I could however, see her re-joining the band. Especially from her comment that she hates the suitcase thing, but if she did "it' she'd have to tour.

"It" seemed like FM to me.

[SteveMacD]

It just occurred to me that because Christine sent Lindsey her songs, she has every reason to believe that Lindsey will be producing the next FM record.
Not necessarily. Songwriters usually send demos to their bandmates. Lindsey has a history of working on arrangements for Christine's songs. I don't think THAT ever goes away. Being the arranger isn't the same as being the producer. Lindsey may very well want to hand that part over to somebody else.

[Jondalar]

It just occurred to me that because Christine sent Lindsey her songs, she has every reason to believe that Lindsey will be producing the next FM record. Will Stevie still want to have an outside producer co-produce with Lindsey or will she allow LB to simply take the reins as he has in the past?

Good question
Dave is not part of this team

[Neal]

A new FM album cannot happen fast enough!

The wait between these snippets of news is killing me! :]

[SpyNote]

Love how Christine and Stevie corroborate their versions of events and Lindsey's differing recollections stand out. Wonder if Lindsey's nervous about having that collective feminine energy back in the band...:eek:

No doubt! Lindsey is brilliant in many, many ways, but he's still the most insecure of all of them.

[louielouie2000]

Love how Christine and Stevie corroborate their versions of events and Lindsey's differing recollections stand out. Wonder if Lindsey's nervous about having that collective feminine energy back in the band...:eek:

What I actually gathered from all that is that he's not living in the past, like he stated in the article. The man has 3 children now... all of whom are probably old enough to read these interviews, or at least get wind of them. As a father, why would Lindsey want to spend his time regurgitating all of his past misbehavior from 3+ decades ago? It's easy to see why he wouldn't want to focus on all of that- or why his wife wouldn't want him to. Stevie & Chris can own up to their misdeeds because they have no children whom it could harm. That's not the case with Lindsey.

[Johnny Stew]

What I actually gathered from all that is that he's not living in the past, like he stated in the article. The man has 3 children now... all of whom are probably old enough to read these interviews, or at least get wind of them. As a father, why would Lindsey want to spend his time regurgitating all of his past misbehavior from 3+ decades ago? It's easy to see why he wouldn't want to focus on all of that- or why his wife wouldn't want him to. Stevie & Chris can own up to their misdeeds because they have no children whom it could harm. That's not the case with Lindsey.

I don't know, I think it's better for children to see their parents owning up to - and taking responsibility for -- past mistakes, as opposed to pretending it never happened.

Lindsey's responses to the questions seemed disingenuous to me.

[louielouie2000]

I don't know, I think it's better for children to see their parents owning up to - and taking responsibility for -- past mistakes, as opposed to pretending it never happened.

Lindsey's responses to the questions seemed disingenuous to me.

I agree wholeheartedly, I just understand Lindsey's motives as to why he's refusing to rehash all of it.

For what it's worth, his temper is still very much in tact these days, too. When I saw him at Antone's in Austin last year, I caught a tiny glimpse of it. As Lindsey was walking offstage and towards the door at the end the show, he paused to shake a couple of hands, then quickly moved towards the exit. Not before someone tugged his coat for one more handshake, though. You all should have seen the way he spun around- the look of unbridled rage & contempt in his face. Lindsey may have mellowed with age & realigned his priorities... but the same insecure guy is inside him that's been there all his life.

[bombaysaffires]

I agree wholeheartedly, I just understand Lindsey's motives as to why he's refusing to rehash all of it.



^This. Of course he thinks about how his children will see him based on all the junk written in the press. So I'm with you louielouie2000 on why he does it. And we are all smart enough to call him out, even if only amongst ourselves. ;)

[bombaysaffires]

Love that Christine has the last words--a parody of The Carpenters's hit. She hasn't lost her wry wit.

I also love that she flat out calls Lindsey a control freak. We all know this, but her candor is refreshing.

Why, oh, why was Stevie asked if she was a lesbian? I know she's appealing to both genders but so is Lindsey and, as someone else mentioned here, he was NOT asked if he preferred men.

Agree, that was kinda right out of left field for this interview. I'm surprised if they were going that route they didn't ask Chris also.:shrug:

[MrStevie]

What I actually gathered from all that is that he's not living in the past, like he stated in the article. The man has 3 children now... all of whom are probably old enough to read these interviews, or at least get wind of them. As a father, why would Lindsey want to spend his time regurgitating all of his past misbehavior from 3+ decades ago? It's easy to see why he wouldn't want to focus on all of that- or why his wife wouldn't want him to. Stevie & Chris can own up to their misdeeds because they have no children whom it could harm. That's not the case with Lindsey.


You mean the way Stevie takes total responsibility for having an affair with a married father of 2 innocent little girls?

‘I didn’t want to fall in love with Mick' (The devil made me do it?:shrug:)

‘I had the attitude that you didn’t need to go after someone’s husband who had two children...(but you did it anyway :confused:)

...I always considered Mick one of the great loves of my life.’ ( :rolleyes:)

Why, oh, why was Stevie asked if she was a lesbian? I know she's appealing to both genders but so is Lindsey and, as someone else mentioned here, he was NOT asked if he preferred men.

Christine wasn't asked either.

[Ulpian]

Agree, that was kinda right out of left field for this interview. I'm surprised if they were going that route they didn't ask Chris also.:shrug:

The Mail is a bag of paradoxes. They at once despise homosexuality and yet will titilate (male) readers with fantasies of a once-beautiful rockstar involving herself in same-sex situations. They would not, of course, ask Lindsey the question because the editorial staff - for the same reason mainstream Hollywood loves lipstick lesbianism but traditionally balked at two men kissing - consider male homosexuality the ultimate sin, whereas the image two women kissing just sells copy.

You may think I've been dramatic, but having examined the Daily Mail at close quarters for the best part of twenty years, I don't think I'm far off the mark.

[MoonSister75]

The Mail is a bag of paradoxes. They at once despise homosexuality and yet will titilate (male) readers with fantasies of a once-beautiful rockstar involving herself in same-sex situations. They would not, of course, ask Lindsey the question because the editorial staff - for the same reason mainstream Hollywood loves lipstick lesbianism but traditionally balked at two men kissing - consider male homosexuality the ultimate sin, whereas the image two women kissing just sells copy.

You may think I've been dramatic, but having examined the Daily Mail at close quarters for the best part of twenty years, I don't think I'm far off the mark.

You are not being dramatic. I hate to think of a much of the population reading it. :shrug: Well done for studying it and being able to speak with authority on the subject, I honestly can't even bear to open the first page. This kind of media horrifies me. You only have to look down the right hand side of the Fleetwood Mac article on their website, to see what kind of reporting it focuses on.

But I am pleased they managed to write a good FM article (apart from the obvious dodgy bit).....

[Ulpian]

You are not being dramatic. I hate to think of a much of the population reading it. :shrug: Well done for studying it and being able to speak with authority on the subject, I honestly can't even bear to open the first page. This kind of media horrifies me. You only have to look down the right hand side of the Fleetwood Mac article on their website, to see what kind of reporting it focuses on.

But I am pleased they managed to write a good FM article (apart from the obvious dodgy bit).....

Indeed. I have relatives who read it "for the sports reports" and others who don't even bother to make excuses! Still, agreed that they manage to write a decent article now and then.

[MoonSister75]

Indeed. I have relatives who read it "for the sports reports" and others who don't even bother to make excuses! Still, agreed that they manage to write a decent article now and then.

I also have close relatives that used to read it, although I'm not sure if they do now :shrug: Oh well, its just best that I avoid it myself.

[Dex]

I know many people who read the Daily Mail but they all seem to be quite self-aware about how appalling it is. So that's... Something, I guess. I do genuinely think it's the sheer readability of it that draws people in, against all else, even the fact that it's historically been absolutely wrong about everything (yes, including Hitler).

I've picked it up over lunch breaks in the staff room. At its best it's just hugely uninformative. I never finish a copy of it feeling like I've actually learned anything.

[Dex]

You mean the way Stevie takes total responsibility for having an affair with a married father of 2 innocent little girls?

‘I didn’t want to fall in love with Mick' (The devil made me do it?:shrug:)

‘I had the attitude that you didn’t need to go after someone’s husband who had two children...(but you did it anyway :confused:)

...I always considered Mick one of the great loves of my life.’ ( :rolleyes:)

I don't really get the vitriol of your post, MrStevie. I don't think Stevie is absolving herself of any responsibility in this interview. She's acknowledging the fact that she fell in love (which is not something that anyone has any control or choice over) and that she made some pretty bone-headed decisions because of that. Love does make people complete idiots. She's being honest about how she felt and what she did at the time. She's not saying that it didn't happen or that she was tricked into it, and she's not saying it was right.

Christine wasn't asked either.

Indeed. Highlighting the fact that the question was not about journalistic interest, but about sex appeal. Christine isn't "the sexy one", so whether or not she's kissed women is seen as incidental in the minds of Mail readers.

[louielouie2000]

Indeed. Highlighting the fact that the question was not about journalistic interest, but about sex appeal. Christine isn't "the sexy one", so whether or not she's kissed women is seen as incidental in the minds of Mail readers.

I'm not sure I understand all of the outrage centered around this publication asking Stevie if she'd ever had an affair with a woman. :confused: It's 2014, not the dark ages. Plus, of anyone in Fleetwood Mac, it's Stevie who's known for her high profile affairs & sexual prowess. She's pretty frank about all of it too; so why not ask her if one of her many loves was a woman? It seems like a logical progression to me. :shrug:

[Dex]

I'm not sure I understand all of the outrage centered around this publication asking Stevie if she'd ever had an affair with a woman. :confused: It's 2014, not the dark ages. Plus, of anyone in Fleetwood Mac, it's Stevie who's known for her high profile affairs & sexual prowess. She's pretty frank about all of it too; so why not ask her if one of her many loves was a woman? It seems like a logical progression to me. :shrug:

It's possible that I'm having my impression of the question and its nature coloured by my understanding of the publication and its target clientele, in which the smarm-factor is all but a given. Maybe my reflexes are getting the better of me and I'm not being completely unbiased. My impression, though, has always been that questions related to sexual orientation are just unprofessional, period, and are not asked by respected publications. Perhaps I'm wrong about this. But Stevie's reportedly startled reaction is telling. And I don't think if Lindsey had been asked if he ever had a bi moment that it would be seen by Lindsey, the interviewer, or Mail readers, as a "logical progression" from other questions about his personal history.

[MikeInNV]

The Mail is a bag of paradoxes. They at once despise homosexuality and yet will titilate (male) readers with fantasies of a once-beautiful rockstar involving herself in same-sex situations. They would not, of course, ask Lindsey the question because the editorial staff - for the same reason mainstream Hollywood loves lipstick lesbianism but traditionally balked at two men kissing - consider male homosexuality the ultimate sin, whereas the image two women kissing just sells copy.

You may think I've been dramatic, but having examined the Daily Mail at close quarters for the best part of twenty years, I don't think I'm far off the mark.

How dare you! :D :wavey:

[louielouie2000]

It's possible that I'm having my impression of the question and its nature coloured by my understanding of the publication and its target clientele, in which the smarm-factor is all but a given. Maybe my reflexes are getting the better of me and I'm not being completely unbiased. My impression, though, has always been that questions related to sexual orientation are just unprofessional, period, and are not asked by respected publications. Perhaps I'm wrong about this. But Stevie's reportedly startled reaction is telling. And I don't think if Lindsey had been asked if he ever had a bi moment that it would be seen by Lindsey, the interviewer, or Mail readers, as a "logical progression" from other questions about his personal history.

Hey, at least they had the "class" not to ask her about the 'coke up bum' rumor. :lol:

And surely Lindsey's heavy eye makeup during the late '70s could have been grounds to ask about his sexual preferences? :p

But in all seriousness, does anyone else think some of the quotes from the band members seem a bit suspect? For instance, the amount of cursing in Stevie's quotes... that's just not her style.

[aleuzzi]

Hey, at least they had the "class" not to ask her about the 'coke up bum' rumor. :lol:



I've said it before and I will say it again: journalists tend to exploit Stevie's past rock behaviors in ways that border on sexism and even linguistic violence. It makes me very uncomfortable. It appears to pander to the lowest common denominator in the audience, people (ie--mainly men) who would say, "Isn't Stevie a washed up this or that who used to do coke up her bum?" Its horrible. And it's unfair. The Mac men did as much if not more drugs than she, but no one is "reporting' on their usage.

In general, Christine is immune to such stories but that is because her image is so anti-rock anyway. Her drinking is mentioned, but never in a salacious way. Even now, when she admits to cocaine usage (more clearly and directly than ever before) it is all very subdued.

[Dex]

Do the Stevie coke-up-bum rumours kind of make that method of drug use sound a teensy weensy bit enticing to anyone else...? Like... are you guys curious...?

No? Yeah, me neither. http://www.toriforum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif

[jbrownsjr]

All I know is that Christine and Lindsey are working on music together again in some capacity.

I don't care if Stevie, Lindsey and Christine run around naked in West Hollywood. Just get us an album and a tour.

[aleuzzi]

All I know is that Christine and Lindsey are working on music together again in some capacity.

I don't care if Stevie, Lindsey and Christine run around naked in West Hollywood. Just get us an album and a tour.

:thumbsup:

But if the three of them DID run around naked in West Hollywood, that'd generate a lot of buzz about the new record.

[MrStevie]

I don't really get the vitriol of your post, MrStevie. I don't think Stevie is absolving herself of any responsibility in this interview. She's acknowledging the fact that she fell in love (which is not something that anyone has any control or choice over) and that she made some pretty bone-headed decisions because of that. Love does make people complete idiots. She's being honest about how she felt and what she did at the time. She's not saying that it didn't happen or that she was tricked into it, and she's not saying it was right.

Sorry you read vitriol. I was aiming for irony but oh well. :sorry:

Considering what you said below, I'm surprised you think the only questionable thing in the article was the sexual orientation bit. As long as the tone makes a good impression of Stevie and Chris and the only person coming off poorly is the only one who's motives you suspect, then it's okay to believe this article as the rare good one in a publication known for being nothing but complete trash? :shrug:

I know many people who read the Daily Mail but they all seem to be quite self-aware about how appalling it is. So that's... Something, I guess. I do genuinely think it's the sheer readability of it that draws people in, against all else, even the fact that it's historically been absolutely wrong about everything (yes, including Hitler).

I've picked it up over lunch breaks in the staff room. At its best it's just hugely uninformative. I never finish a copy of it feeling like I've actually learned anything.I don't know, I think it's better for children to see their parents owning up to - and taking responsibility for -- past mistakes, as opposed to pretending it never happened.

Lindsey's responses to the questions seemed disingenuous to me.

The entire article seemed disingenuous to me.

[Dex]

Sorry you read vitriol. I was aiming for irony but oh well. :sorry:

Vitriol was me overstating. That's a bad habit of mine. Sorry.



Considering what you said below, I'm surprised you think the only questionable thing in the article was the sexual orientation bit. As long as the tone makes a good impression of Stevie and Chris and the only person coming off poorly is the only one who's motives you suspect, then it's okay to believe this article as the rare good one in a publication known for being nothing but complete trash? :shrug:


I'm sorry, but I don't know if I've completely got you, here. Who's motives do I suspect? What do you mean? I just thought your comparison of Lindsey's denying his past physical altercations to Stevie's discussion of her affair didn't make a lot of sense. That's all I meant.

I wouldn't mind The Daily Mail as a pop-culture rag. It's the framing of itself as a "serious" news publication that I find so objectionable. It can do celebrity gossip and interviews 'til the cows come home. Its seemingly random query into Stevie's potential sexual experimentations with women just reeked of frat-boy smarminess to me, and stood out from the rest of the article in that way. Could you be more specific about what parts of the article you disliked? Genuinely interested, here.

[MrStevie]

Vitriol was me overstating. That's a bad habit of mine. Sorry.


I'm sorry, but I don't know if I've completely got you, here. Who's motives do I suspect? What do you mean? I just thought your comparison of Lindsey's denying his past physical altercations to Stevie's discussion of her affair didn't make a lot of sense. That's all I meant.

I wouldn't mind The Daily Mail as a pop-culture rag. It's the framing of itself as a "serious" news publication that I find so objectionable. It can do celebrity gossip and interviews 'til the cows come home. Its seemingly random query into Stevie's potential sexual experimentations with women just reeked of frat-boy smarminess to me, and stood out from the rest of the article in that way. Could you be more specific about what parts of the article you disliked? Genuinely interested, here.

No problem. Seems I'm the only one who doesn't believe anything about this article, not even how and where these so-called interviews were conducted. The vocabulary itself is suspect, but that's just me, I'm sure. That's the bottom line in my comparison, but I can see why you don't get me if you believe this stuff is all true.

[MoonSister75]

I'm not sure I understand all of the outrage centered around this publication asking Stevie if she'd ever had an affair with a woman. :confused: It's 2014, not the dark ages.

If you read a few copies you might think we are in the dark ages of sexism and nationalism and many other isms.

No problem. Seems I'm the only one who doesn't believe anything about this article, not even how and where these so-called interviews were conducted. The vocabulary itself is suspect, but that's just me, I'm sure. That's the bottom line in my comparison, but I can see why you don't get me if you believe this stuff is all true.

You are probably being very wise to suspect some of this isn't true.

The Daily Mail!! - now causing disagreements on here.

[Dex]

I honestly thought most of the article was stuff we've heard before from other sources? That may not make any of it true, but it's certainly corroborated. I can't fault the Mail on that one, much as I'd like to.

As for the actual quotes, it certainly wouldn't be surprising if they were "embellished". I don't read enough interviews to really pick up on what Louie and MrStevie are finding iffy about the quotes, but it's a definite possibility.

[louielouie2000]

No problem. Seems I'm the only one who doesn't believe anything about this article, not even how and where these so-called interviews were conducted. The vocabulary itself is suspect, but that's just me, I'm sure. That's the bottom line in my comparison, but I can see why you don't get me if you believe this stuff is all true.

You are probably being very wise to suspect some of this isn't true.

See post #46 in this thread... I also suspected some of these quotes as well. First of all, Stevie doesn't curse publicly... ever. Using words like "sh*t" and "b*tch" is hugely out of character for her.

I agree that it seems doubtful this reviewer flew to 3 different countries to interview people in 1 band. It just doesn't make any sense. Many of these interviews are conducted over the phone. Yet, the interviewer describes the surroundings & facial expressions of his interviewees. :shrug:

[MoonSister75]

I honestly thought most of the article was stuff we've heard before from other sources? That may not make any of it true, but it's certainly corroborated. I can't fault the Mail on that one, much as I'd like to.

As for the actual quotes, it certainly wouldn't be surprising if they were "embellished". I don't read enough interviews to really pick up on what Louie and MrStevie are finding iffy about the quotes, but it's a definite possibility.

I believed it all when I read it, and it is possible that it is all true. Who knows?? Like you say its possible the quotes are embellished :confused:

[MoonSister75]

See post #46 in this thread... I also suspected some of these quotes as well. First of all, Stevie doesn't curse publicly... ever. Using words like "sh*t" and "b*tch" is hugely out of character for her.

I agree that it seems doubtful this reviewer flew to 3 different countries to interview people in 1 band. It just doesn't make any sense. Many of these interviews are conducted over the phone. Yet, the interviewer describes the surroundings & facial expressions of his interviewees. :shrug:

Yes it is interesting that a few things don't add up. Didn't it say that Stevie was interviewed in Paris a few weeks after the tour ended. I didn't even think she was in Paris then.

[MoonSister75]

Yes it is interesting that a few things don't add up. Didn't it say that Stevie was interviewed in Paris a few weeks after the tour ended. I didn't even think she was in Paris then.

I just had a quick look through and they say Chris was interviewed 6 weeks after her appearance in London. I was presuming Stevie was interviewed by them around the same time, but they don't actually state that. She could have been interviewed much earlier than that :sorry:

[michelej1]

No problem. Seems I'm the only one who doesn't believe anything about this article, not even how and where these so-called interviews were conducted. The vocabulary itself is suspect, but that's just me, I'm sure. That's the bottom line in my comparison, but I can see why you don't get me if you believe this stuff is all true.

I agree with you. Although, it didn't stick out to me like that old Vox interview with Stevie did. Now that definitely did not sound anything at all like Stevie or her vocabulary.

What I will say about this interview is that Stevie gave a clearer description of New Zealand than she ever did before. She was never definite that Lindsey had kicked her before. She knew he did something to her though. She never saw him with his jacket over his head before (Mick said that), because she wasn't looking at him when he did that. And she never put the incident with him doing something to her in the same sequence of events as him throwing the guitar at her.

So, when I read her quotes, I didn't think they didn't sound like her, but I did think she was giving a more concise, coherent and specific description of the events than she ever had before. It's like an amalgamation of other things that she has said before, but never said at once.

Lindsey's "interview" sounds like all sentences he has said before. But we know Lindsey and he might very well say the same things over again. That would not be surprising. But take that comment about never buying cocaine. That's a quote from an interview he may have done 15 years ago.

Christine's comments all sound new. But the thing with them taking the cocaine in ladylike spoonfuls and the boys coming at the end of the night to find their coke after the boys had used all of theirs up sounds more like something Stevie would say than Christine would.

Stevie sounds like Stevie (but more adept at summarizing things than Stevie ever has been). Lindsey sounds like Lindsey. Christine mostly sounds like herself to me, but not the part about the men doing drugs vulgarly.

Michele

[michelej1]

then it's okay to believe this article as the rare good one in a publication known for being nothing but complete trash? :shrug:


So, tell me about the magazine. I thought people don't like it because they don't like its views. I didn't know it was considered unreliable. Is it considered like a tabloid magazine, like our National Enquirer?

The only contact I have with the magazine is for its pictures. It usually has really nice, high definition photos in the online version.

Michele

[michelej1]

I know many people who read the Daily Mail but they all seem to be quite self-aware about how appalling it is. So that's... Something, I guess. I do genuinely think it's the sheer readability of it that draws people in, against all else, even the fact that it's historically been absolutely wrong about everything (yes, including Hitler).



Oh ok. You've given me perspective about what it is. I've never read news in it, but I have seen pretty of photo spreads, most recently of Freddie Prinze, SMG and their kids.

Michele

[michelej1]

...I always considered Mick one of the great loves of my life.’ ( :rolleyes:)



Yes, I thought that this sounded like an old quote of Stevie's. She has definitely said this about Mick, but she hasn't said it in the last few years. More recently, she has said that their affair was a big mistake. Although, she clearly cherishes him as a friend.

Michele

[michelej1]

All I know is that Christine and Lindsey are working on music together again in some capacity.



If Christine didn't say that she gave songs to Lindsey and he loved them and his mind was whirring to Mac them up, then I'm devastated.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

If Christine didn't say that she gave songs to Lindsey and he loved them and his mind was whirring to Mac them up, then I'm devastated.

Michele

That quote sounds so like them. I'm hoping it's solid. :shocked:

[SpyNote]

I'm not sure I understand all of the outrage centered around this publication asking Stevie if she'd ever had an affair with a woman. :confused: It's 2014, not the dark ages. Plus, of anyone in Fleetwood Mac, it's Stevie who's known for her high profile affairs & sexual prowess. She's pretty frank about all of it too; so why not ask her if one of her many loves was a woman? It seems like a logical progression to me. :shrug:

I have to agree that it is an odd question to ask anyone, let alone someone who is in their 60s. It's just a little disrespectful. Would you ask your grandmother this question? Probably not. My take is that it's a stereotypical straight man's fantasy to know about such things. For many years, it was a recurring joke on sitcoms and in movies, where the thought of two women together would make straight men behave in a silly manner.

[louielouie2000]

I have to agree that it is an odd question to ask anyone, let alone someone who is in their 60s. It's just a little disrespectful. Would you ask your grandmother this question? Probably not.

I'm 31, and my surviving Grandparent is 91. My parents, however, are about Stevie's age. And let me tell you, they recount anything & everything they did during their drug & alcohol filled 20s & 30s. I think that's a function of the Baby Boomer generation, though. This is the generation who started the counter culture & women's movements. Sexual liberation was at the forefront for these people, as was the proliferation of recreational drugs. This same generation experienced the civil rights era and protested the hypocrisy of Vietnam & Watergate. I think personal openness is just hardwired into the Baby Boomer generation- they brought into the light the human (mis)behavior that had always been around. Just because Stevie may be a senior citizen now hardly makes her a fragile old woman. In this same article she's discussing her hardcore drug usage & affairs with married men who had children, all while apoligizing for none of it.

To me, the far more eye raising part of this article was the interviewer asking Lindsey about his purported past violence towards women- then calling him on it when he refused to admit specific incidents. That's a lot cheekier than asking Stevie if she'd ever had an affair with a woman. But different things shock different folks, for sure. I also admit I know nothing of the Daily Mail, either. It sounds a bit like the UK's version of Fox News. Meaning, the publication appeals to a very 'specific' audience & the integrity of their journalistic motives might be debatable. ;)

[michelej1]

That quote sounds so like them. I'm hoping it's solid. :shocked:

And certainly what Christine said about Peter sounded authentic. Michele

[Ulpian]

I'm 31, and my surviving Grandparent is 91. My parents, however, are about Stevie's age. And let me tell you, they recount anything & everything they did during their drug & alcohol filled 20s & 30s. I think that's a function of the Baby Boomer generation, though. This is the generation who started the counter culture & women's movements. Sexual liberation was at the forefront for these people, as was the proliferation of recreational drugs. This same generation experienced the civil rights era and protested the hypocrisy of Vietnam & Watergate. I think personal openness is just hardwired into the Baby Boomer generation- they brought into the light the human (mis)behavior that had always been around. Just because Stevie may be a senior citizen now hardly makes her a fragile old woman. In this same article she's discussing her hardcore drug usage & affairs with married men who had children, all while apoligizing for none of it.

To me, the far more eye raising part of this article was the interviewer asking Lindsey about his purported past violence towards women- then calling him on it when he refused to admit specific incidents. That's a lot cheekier than asking Stevie if she'd ever had an affair with a woman. But different things shock different folks, for sure. I also admit I know nothing of the Daily Mail, either. It sounds a bit like the UK's version of Fox News. Meaning, the publication appeals to a very 'specific' audience & the integrity of their journalistic motives might be debatable. ;)

The Daily Mail is indeed like Fox News. If you like your news peppered with right-wing foam-mouthed rants, then it's fantastic.

Its online version is separate and more celebrity gossip-oriented. Salacious as their reporters can be, I've no reason to doubt the quotes they attribute to Christine, and I can almost hear her saying them. I agree with Michele that the comment about Peter Green sounds authentic.

[teedeerocks]

If there was any truth to Stevie's quote or reaction to the lesbian question,then her response makes one believe that she might be bi because,IMO,the more someone tries to convince you of something the more likely they're not being altogether truthful.Once again,if any of it was true...just a thought.

[michelej1]

The Daily Mail is indeed like Fox News. If you like your news peppered with right-wing foam-mouthed rants, then it's fantastic.



That's pretty funny. If Jon Stewart ever wanted to change countries, sounds like he could do his show in the UK too.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

If there was any truth to Stevie's quote or reaction to the lesbian question,then her response makes one believe that she might be bi because,IMO,the more someone tries to convince you of something the more likely they're not being altogether truthful.Once again,if any of it was true...just a thought.

I don't know, but if the coke-in-the-bum story were true, who do we think she asked to do it? A man?? Hardly. :eek:

[Autumn Ocean]

This might be gross but the mechanics of the coke in the bum sounds tricky to achieve, for a variety of reasons!

[SteveMacD]

This might be gross but the mechanics of the coke in the bum sounds tricky to achieve, for a variety of reasons!
A huge line and a huge straw. I'm not sure what, if any, benefit to this would be. Then again, I live in a glorified suburb of Cincinnati.

[QueenStevie]

If there was any truth to Stevie's quote or reaction to the lesbian question,then her response makes one believe that she might be bi because,IMO,the more someone tries to convince you of something the more likely they're not being altogether truthful.Once again,if any of it was true...just a thought.

True-blue Stevie fans would take Stevie at her word. Just sayin'!

[teedeerocks]

:shrug:True-blue Stevie fans would take Stevie at her word. Just sayin'!

Not to dis our girl but everyone knows she changes her stories with the wind so I find it very difficult to take her at her word for anything.Not that she is a liar but she does elaborate(ramble)ALOT.But she's a Gemini so she can't help it!:p

[Dex]

:shrug:

Not to dis our girl but everyone knows she changes her stories with the wind so I find it very difficult to take her at her word for anything.Not that she is a liar but she does elaborate(ramble)ALOT.But she's a Gemini so she can't help it!:p

Yes. I won't deny I am susceptible to the whole "wooooooo, protesting a little too much, donchathink?" reaction to people's responses regarding questions to their sexuality. However, in this case, I think she's probably just being honest, and is possible a little sick of being asked, hence the rather emphatic response. I mean, at the end of the day, many women simply are not bi or gay, or terribly interested in experimentation. It's a perfectly plausible scenario in this case, too.