Blackfish (the documentary on captured Killer Whales)

[Jondalar]

I recently watched this documentary on Netflix and it sickened me to the core. If you want to watch a GREAT documentary on the plight of captured Killer Whales, then watch this. You won't forget it. Seaworld sucks!!!!!!!! I am totally disturbed by this documentary.

Have any of you seen it?

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[olive]

heart ,cheap trick ,Willie Nelson and recently Trisha Yearwood have all backed out of playing there. absolutely horrible the way they treat these animals

[becca]

It is an excellent doc. I remember when Keltie Byrne was killed in my hometown in Canada (Tillicum is a local tribal name) and how the press and authorities back then found Sealand covered up details about the treatment of the whales and the circumstances of their employee's death. People who paid attention here knew that this particular whale should not have been in with others let alone performing or in much contact with so-called trainers. It never should have been stolen so young from it's pod in Iceland for the sheer greed of people to have more money and for no other reason. Now there had been some serious study done by people (Dr. Spong) associated with Sealand at one time, but that had nothing to do with the show-biz attraction aspect, the entire continuing operation was not ever for genuine educational purposes. I saw a show at the Sealand Of The Pacific where the first trainer was later killed, when it was Haida and Chimo, and I had a great interest and learned practically nothing. They jumped through hoops, the splashed, and they were described as having humanistic personalities. On your way out you were encouraged to buy stuff based on their trademarked personalities at a gift shop.

The whole thing remains sad and pointless. Even though the capturing of these whales is long past in the waters I travel through, current wild orca whale pods are slowly declining because of environmental degradation... yet now they are looking to increase oil tanker traffic further here on the tail of new pipelines being given a green light. There will never be enough money for some people. People suffer as well as the other creatures because of this.

[KarmaContestant]

heart ,cheap trick ,Willie Nelson and recently Trisha Yearwood have all backed out of playing there. absolutely horrible the way they treat these animals

And Joan Jett has demanded they cease using her music in the shows.

[KarmaContestant]

I recently watched this documentary on Netflix and it sickened me to the core. If you want to watch a GREAT documentary on the plight of captured Killer Whales, then watch this. You won't forget it. Seaworld sucks!!!!!!!! I am totally disturbed by this documentary.

Have any of you seen it?


Jondalar, if you haven't seen it already, I suggest you watch The Cove as well. It's more about dolphin slaughter, but the main reason those dolphins are gathered in the cove in the first place is to capture wild ones to sell to SeaWorld and other water parks.

[Jondalar]

It is an excellent doc. I remember when Keltie Byrne was killed in my hometown in Canada (Tillicum is a local tribal name) and how the press and authorities back then found Sealand covered up details about the treatment of the whales and the circumstances of their employee's death. People who paid attention here knew that this particular whale should not have been in with others let alone performing or in much contact with so-called trainers. It never should have been stolen so young from it's pod in Iceland for the sheer greed of people to have more money and for no other reason. Now there had been some serious study done by people (Dr. Spong) associated with Sealand at one time, but that had nothing to do with the show-biz attraction aspect, the entire continuing operation was not ever for genuine educational purposes. I saw a show at the Sealand Of The Pacific where the first trainer was later killed, when it was Haida and Chimo, and I had a great interest and learned practically nothing. They jumped through hoops, the splashed, and they were described as having humanistic personalities. On your way out you were encouraged to buy stuff based on their trademarked personalities at a gift shop.

The whole thing remains sad and pointless. Even though the capturing of these whales is long past in the waters I travel through, current wild orca whale pods are slowly declining because of environmental degradation... yet now they are looking to increase oil tanker traffic further here on the tail of new pipelines being given a green light. There will never be enough money for some people. People suffer as well as the other creatures because of this.

I feel so bad for Keltie. Her death didn't matter to them. What a tragedy. Tilikums life is also a tragedy. Thanks for your post.

[Jondalar]

Jondalar, if you haven't seen it already, I suggest you watch The Cove as well. It's more about dolphin slaughter, but the main reason those dolphins are gathered in the cove in the first place is to capture wild ones to sell to SeaWorld and other water parks.

I have seen it and it made me sick. It's a great doc. I do think Blackfish is more powerful because they expose the way Seaworld manipulates things for money. I have watched this doc over 15 times.

[Jondalar]

Does Stevie let Seaworld use her music?

[Macfanforever]

Does Stevie let Seaworld use her music?

Thats a good question .I know that Bob Barker of the Price is Right is protesting against Sea World with their doings with whales and other activities.

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[becca]

There are lots of businesses that use education as window-dressing while doing real harm, somehow when it's intelligent animals it seems a bit worse as they have few legal rights. Performing animals equals show business and not education however. Giving them names and humanlike personalities (there were many Shamus I believe as there were many Flippers) is all about merchandizing. There was a sled dog business that simply disposed of unneeded dogs after demand for their 'experiences' for people wound down following the Vancouver 2010 olympics. In Russia they're quite upfront about similar dog being destined for fur coat collars. I used to take care of a McKenzie River husky and they are extremely trusting and loyal and I have no doubt he would have given his life if I were endangered. :(

I am used to seeing Orcas in the wild, they can be very friendly, and unfortunately that has helped endanger them in some ways and make them easier to capture. It was interesting how Tillikum's pod intelligently tried to evade capture back in he past when he was taken as a baby from them. I have been scared by large whales in when I was in a small boat but so-called 'killer' whales are definitely a happy sight along with dolphins. I'm sure they could play with me to death though if kept in a very small and boring to them enclosure. Tillikum was abused and essentially made retarded despite obvious intelligence shown for performing.

[Jondalar]

Tilikums life has been terrible and really sad. He was treated poorly by other whales too. I cannot wrap my head around how Seaworld justifies taking babies away from their mothers. That is sooooo tragic.

[jannieC]

I have not seen it but will make it a priority. And (somewhat unrelated), I adore Bob Barker. Such a wonderful man and activist.

[BombaySapphire3]

When I was 12 my parents tookme to Sea World in San Diego.Now this was nearly 40 years ago but they then had a "petting pool:" with a bunch of Beluga whales and dolphins swimming around in circles in a fairly small pool.It really disturbed me then and I never went back to that or any other park featuring performing marine mammals.

[Macfanforever]

I have not seen it but will make it a priority. And (somewhat unrelated), I adore Bob Barker. Such a wonderful man and activist.

I love Bob Barker.He just turn 90 years young on Dec 12th.He is still helping out and getting his words out to stop animal cruelty.

[Jondalar]

It's almost criminal that this documentary was not nominated for an Oscar. It's the most talk about, influential documentary of the year. I thought it was a shoe-in to win. The Academy sucks.

[iamnotafraid]

I recently watched this, and while it is terribly sad - sickening really,
we need to look at who made this film. It's a dangerous thing to only
consider one side of the story. And personally I don't trust either side,
the animal activists or Sea World.

As much as I hate government regulations, the smaller parks should
be shut down over time. The ones that have Killer Whales that is. If
the swimming area (holding area) is big enough I don't see a problem
with the dolphins so much. As long as they are treated properly.

Besides entertainment these parks offer benefits of conservation and
general awareness that can benefit all sea life.

The most troubling thing about this movie to me was the safety of
Sea World's employees. That fact seems to be lost on many.

[Jondalar]

I recently watched this, and while it is terribly sad - sickening really,
we need to look at who made this film. It's a dangerous thing to only
consider one side of the story. And personally I don't trust either side,
the animal activists or Sea World.

As much as I hate government regulations, the smaller parks should
be shut down over time. The ones that have Killer Whales that is. If
the swimming area (holding area) is big enough I don't see a problem
with the dolphins so much. As long as they are treated properly.

Besides entertainment these parks offer benefits of conservation and
general awareness that can benefit all sea life.

The most troubling thing about this movie to me was the safety of
Sea World's employees. That fact seems to be lost on many.

All killer whales in captivity have a bad life. In that regard, there is only one moral side of the story. For years, the only side of the story was what SeaWorld presented and a lot of what they presented was lies.

If someone put you in cage and studied you, you wouldn't be saying there are two sides to a story.

[QueenStevie]

The most troubling thing about this movie to me was the safety of Sea World's employees. That fact seems to be lost on many.

It's lost on many people because they love killer whales ridiculously more than they love other people!

[becca]

Obviously Seaworld loved neither their star performers or the people who worked for them. I knew a lot but learned a ton more from this well done documentary. Time and again deregulation, and lack of regulation in the first place, has been shown to be behind many problems.

I grew up in a family that hunted and fished and have done both, I care about the environment a lot and not because I am confused about animals being better than or more innocent than humans. It was Seaworld itself trying to humanize the animals as having personalities and names like people. :confused:

[Jondalar]

The most troubling thing about this movie to me was the safety of
Sea World's employees. That fact seems to be lost on many.


It's lost on many people because they love killer whales ridiculously more than they love other people!

I find these comments to be a little manipulative.

I don't think that that fact that SeaWorld has treated their trainers poorly has been lost on many people. It seems like most of the trainers were deeply saddened by the loss of one the of the most experienced and liked trainers. That is why many of them chose to talk about SeaWorld. They cared for this trainer, but they know that he whales are sorta of crazy because of the way they been treated. Anyone who watches this documentary gets that.

However, the killer whales are being treated far worse than the trainers. It is sort of apparent, however, that what you are saying is you don't care--they are just killer whales.

It's lost on many people because they love killer whales ridiculously more than they love other people!

Not true. If people were being caged up and had their children taken away and driven mad, everyone would be even more outraged.

P.S. If you made the comment because you were afraid you would lose at SeaWorld, killer whales do not owe you a job.

[iamnotafraid]

I don't think that that fact that SeaWorld has treated their trainers poorly has been lost on many people...

Anyone who watches this documentary gets that...

However, the killer whales are being treated far worse than the trainers...

It is sort of apparent, however, that what you are saying is you don't care--they are just killer whales.



You're kidding right? Read the posts before mine and see
where the concern lay. The a-n-i-m-a-l-s.

As much as I love killer whales they are not equal to humans.

It's apparent that I don't care for killer whales? Please reread
my original post. You'll find you're wrong.

[KarmaContestant]

You're kidding right? Read the posts before mine and see
where the concern lay. The a-n-i-m-a-l-s.

As much as I love killer whales they are not equal to humans.

It's apparent that I don't care for killer whales? Please reread
my original post. You'll find you're wrong.

I think what Jondalar meant (though I am not trying to speak for him), and how I feel as well, is that the animals have no voice. This documentary is a voice for the orcas, not the trainers or their employer. I don't care about the trainers - not one bit - they choose this line of work - they have choices and voices - and they choose to go into an industry that is known for abuse of animals, and too many of them do not use their voice responsibly.

The animals are not equal to humans, you are absolutely right - they are superior in every way to humans. It is our duty to care for this world, our duty to protect all life, our duty to be responsible stewards of our own environment and the creatures that live in it who have no choice in their enslavement and no voice to speak out against it. SeaWorld and their employees are a disgusting parody of that responsibility.

Elevating the importance of the abusers simply because they are human could be considered a de facto support of their activities, in the eyes of some.

[Jondalar]

I recently watched this, and while it is terribly sad - sickening really,
we need to look at who made this film. It's a dangerous thing to only
consider one side of the story. And personally I don't trust either side,
the animal activists or Sea World.

As much as I hate government regulations, the smaller parks should
be shut down over time. The ones that have Killer Whales that is. If
the swimming area (holding area) is big enough I don't see a problem
with the dolphins so much. As long as they are treated properly.

Besides entertainment these parks offer benefits of conservation and
general awareness that can benefit all sea life.

The most troubling thing about this movie to me was the safety of
Sea World's employees. That fact seems to be lost on many.

I think what Jondalar meant (though I am not trying to speak for him), and how I feel as well, is that the animals have no voice. This documentary is a voice for the orcas, not the trainers or their employer. I don't care about the trainers - not one bit - they choose this line of work - they have choices and voices - and they choose to go into an industry that is known for abuse of animals, and too many of them do not use their voice responsibly.

The animals are not equal to humans, you are absolutely right - they are superior in every way to humans. It is our duty to care for this world, our duty to protect all life, our duty to be responsible stewards of our own environment and the creatures that live in it who have no choice in their enslavement and no voice to speak out against it. SeaWorld and their employees are a disgusting parody of that responsibility.

Elevating the importance of the abusers simply because they are human could be considered a de facto support of their activities, in the eyes of some.

Thank you for writing this. So true. :)

[iamnotafraid]

1. I don't care about the trainers - not one bit...

2. The animals are not equal to humans, you are absolutely right - they are superior in every way to humans...

3. SeaWorld and their employees are a disgusting parody of that responsibility.

4. Elevating the importance of the abusers simply because they are human could be considered a de facto support of their activities, in the eyes of some.


^yes the above has been edited to respond to.

1. I'm guessing and what was implied during the movie is that
the trainers sometimes weren't fully aware of the animals past.
Which would put Sea World at fault, not the trainers. How you
can say you don't care one bit about another human being killed
is beyond me.

2. Can I laugh and be sad at the same comment? I don't even think
you believe what you wrote there.

3. Love or hate Sea World, some of their employees really love the
animals they work with. How can the employees be disgusting?
Misguided perhaps, but disgusting I think not.

4. So you and Jondalar are kind of like if you're not with us you're
against us kind of guys? Am I reading that right?

[Newzchspy]

Nothing good can come from this post when we talk about issues such as this or politics. Sad, but true.

[becca]

While animals will rip each other to pieces literally, people will cheer something resulting in compressed spines, multiple concussions and sometimes suicides. :woohoo:

It helps to have a sense of humo(u)r along with a broad perspective.. :thumbsup:

[Jondalar]

^yes the above has been edited to respond to.

1. I'm guessing and what was implied during the movie is that
the trainers sometimes weren't fully aware of the animals past.
Which would put Sea World at fault, not the trainers. How you
can say you don't care one bit about another human being killed
is beyond me.

2. Can I laugh and be sad at the same comment? I don't even think
you believe what you wrote there.

3. Love or hate Sea World, some of their employees really love the
animals they work with. How can the employees be disgusting?
Misguided perhaps, but disgusting I think not.

4. So you and Jondalar are kind of like if you're not with us you're
against us kind of guys? Am I reading that right?



You're trying to find tiny ways to skirt the issue or justify what SeaWorld is doing. What they are doing can't be justified.

[KarmaContestant]

^yes the above has been edited to respond to.

1. I'm guessing and what was implied during the movie is that
the trainers sometimes weren't fully aware of the animals past.
Which would put Sea World at fault, not the trainers. How you
can say you don't care one bit about another human being killed
is beyond me.

2. Can I laugh and be sad at the same comment? I don't even think
you believe what you wrote there.

3. Love or hate Sea World, some of their employees really love the
animals they work with. How can the employees be disgusting?
Misguided perhaps, but disgusting I think not.

4. So you and Jondalar are kind of like if you're not with us you're
against us kind of guys? Am I reading that right?

1 - :shrug: I wish I could say I didn't mean it that way, but I can't. What kind of person wants to force wild animls to do tricks, anyway?

2 - I totally believe it. Someday, others will, too, when they finally understand that we don't have the right to do what we do with these animals. What we have is a duty to preserve the natural world, and it's inhabitants. We are but caretakers of our world. It doesn't belong to humankind. We are not more important than other life forms, but because we have the intelligence, logic and reason to know right from wrong, I believe we must consider ourselves subservient to it in order to prevent our arrogance from destroying it. And for me, that means the life of an elephant or a whale is more important than my own.

3 - People do horrible things with good intentions. It doesn't make those things any less horrific. Seaworld is, to me, the ebodiment of human arrogance. It's gross, and in fact even disgusting to be party to it, be you the employee or the employer. I wish everyone of those trainers were eaten until people finally realized that orcas and whales belong in the ocean, free, and not caged as sideshow attractions for people who don't understand what captivity feels like.

4 - Speaking for myself....when it comes to the enslavement of animals for profit (SeaWorld, zoos, hunting preserves), yes, I would say it's very black or white for me.


My preference would be that wild animals be free to live without human interference or encroachment. I know I'm different, and even considered weird for my views. I wish it were otherwise, and that more people thought the way I do.

[iamnotafraid]

1 - :shrug: I wish I could say I didn't mean it that way, but I can't.

2 - for me, that means the life of an elephant or a whale is more important than my own.

3 - Seaworld... be you the employee or the employer. I wish everyone of those trainers were eaten until people finally realized that orcas and whales belong in the ocean...



Wow, what do I say to that?

Maybe growing up on a farm forced me to think
differently about animals. From a business point
of view you can only do so much to take care of
them. From vet bills to quality of feed it's about
the money. You just try to do your best.

Sea World isn't necessary like farming of course
and they should treat their animals better. But
I would bet money that some of their animals live
better than the ones in the wild.

If we knew what they think, how they think, if
they are capable of deep thought we might know
better how to treat them. What would you guess
they think more about, freedom or a pail of fish?

[iamnotafraid]

While animals will rip each other to pieces literally, people will cheer something resulting in compressed spines, multiple concussions and sometimes suicides. :woohoo:

Now don't you go bringing up my Miami Dolphins in this thread!

[becca]

A Sochi aquarium is set to display during the Olympic Games a pair of orcas that were captured by whalers in waters north of Japan...

A Russian company captured seven orcas in the sea of Okhotsk last summer, northeast of Japan, and is preparing to ship two of them to its aquarium in Sochi to cash in on the Olympics.

B.C.-based whale researcher Paul Spong says it's deplorable that the company is doing this, adding it’s not in the Olympic spirit.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Whale+researchers+protest+Sochi+display/9403741/story.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sochi-winter-olympics-orca-whale-exhibit-sparks-outrage-1.2498621

:distress:

[Aussie W/Heart]

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Whale+researchers+protest+Sochi+display/9403741/story.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sochi-winter-olympics-orca-whale-exhibit-sparks-outrage-1.2498621

:distress:

WTF :mad::mad::mad::shocked::shocked, this is sooooo wrong!!! I just hope the protesters can stop this fu#ked up idea from going ahead..

[MoonSister75]

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Whale+researchers+protest+Sochi+display/9403741/story.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sochi-winter-olympics-orca-whale-exhibit-sparks-outrage-1.2498621

:distress:

:mad::mad::confused::distress:

I just hope this can be stopped - its complete madness

[becca]

I'm kind of negative about the Olympics mostly anyway, the 2010 Vancouver ones were a pain in the butt to me personally mostly, but these ones seem to be particularly backward and out of touch. It is always amazing how they have money for this kind of pointless construction, road building to world class resorts our of reach of many working people and show-biz style hoohah (but then when you factor in that many of the most extreme athletes have wealthy parents it probably shouldn't be).

Dr. Spong has been around since I was little (as well as David Suzuki). Unfortunately the current 'conservative' government has been laying off scientists on the west coast at an extreme rate in the name of austerity to 'deal with' the global economic crisis (while spending millions on extreme sports that tax the medical system and in 'aid'/military 'support' for the middle east), and the scientists remaining have had to agree to clear anything they say to the public through that government.

Beam us all up Mr. Sulu! :shrug:

[Jondalar]

uggg this olympics they are bashing gays and abusing animals, uggg

[iamnotafraid]

A little bit of good news to report...

PETA has finally got Disney to shut down Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

[KarmaContestant]

A little bit of good news to report...

PETA has finally got Disney to shut down Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

:laugh: :laugh:

If we knew what they think, how they think, if
they are capable of deep thought we might know
better how to treat them. What would you guess
they think more about, freedom or a pail of fish?

I suppose that might depend on how long they have been captive. The new captures probably dream about long ocean swims....in the deep.

When I was 6, I lived with my great-aunt and her husband for a litttle while on their farm. They were primarily corn farmers, though we raised pigs to sell for slaughter and chickens for home use.

Clear as if it happened last night, I remember going out with my great-uncle to round all the chickens up into the barn. The next morning, I had to hold their little heads down on a log as he chopped them off. After the cut, I'd let go, and they would run around for a bit with blood pulsing out of their necks.

I don't have any issues with animals being food, although I personally don't eat animals. I'm not one of those crazy types who try to ruin everyone else's enjoyment of meat, and I'll even eat it - sparingly - because I'm polite and would never make a scene over food. But I never seek it out.

It could all go back to those chickens. I felt terribly bad for them, and for their suffering and fear, and I knew then that I never wanted to be responsible for that.

[iamnotafraid]

:laugh: :laugh:


When I was 6, I lived with my great-aunt and her husband for a litttle while on their farm...

Clear as if it happened last night, I remember going out with my great-uncle to round all the chickens up into the barn. The next morning, I had to hold their little heads down on a log as he chopped them off. After the cut, I'd let go, and they would run around for a bit with blood pulsing out of their necks.

It could all go back to those chickens. I felt terribly bad for them, and for their suffering and fear, and I knew then that I never wanted to be responsible for that.

I'm glad you've got a sense of humor.

I have a few stories myself that are somewhat similar to your
chicken story. Living on a farm and my father being a big
hunter and fisherman, I didn't have much choice of seeing or
even being a part of some of those type settings or events.