Is Stevie winning the war....

[Jondalar]

Seems like she is doing better than Cher, Bette, Linda, Pat.... a whole of them. It's like she has been an underground darkhorse for years but now she just seems to be kicking ass and standing the test of time better. Perhaps, because she didn't change.... thoughts...

[BombaySapphire3]

Seems like she is doing better than Cher, Bette, Linda, Pat.... a whole of them. It's like she has been an underground darkhorse for years but now she just seems to be kicking ass and standing the test of time better. Perhaps, because she didn't change.... thoughts...

I wouldn't exactly call her underground when she was a major star in the late 1970s through the early 80s and cited as a big influence from The Dance on..Cher and Bette are diiferent types of stars as they also had successful at one time film careers and for Cher TV as well so it is kind of like apples and oranges:shrug:Linda can no longer perform or record at all as we know due to illness so is it really fair to even bring her up:shrug:

[redbird]

Well OTOH did Stevie have a "second career" hit on the scale of Cher's "Believe"?

Part of it in my amateur opinion is that the poptimist "movement" bodes well for FM and therefore its members. Also Stevie hasn't given people the opportunity to be sick of her for like 20 years. There are many consumers who weren't even born before then. But being a Rock Chick will mean that her name will keep getting mentioned as rockism tries to enter the 21st century. Also plenty of people probably like the airy fairy thing given the rise of fantasy and paranormal stuff recently.

At the same time plenty of people probably are still at the South Park goat joke level. She's not untouchable, though FM has gotten some love of late from younger crowds with various members being the favorites and unfavorites of various voices.

Anyway like you've said she's not an idiot at networking either, though probably neither she nor FM are taking full advantage.

[Macfanforever]

I agree Cher had a great comeback with Believe.I can add Tina Turner in the 1980's. I feel for Linda Ronstadt what shes going through now ,She did great with her Nelson Riddle Orchestra recordings and her other collaborations with other great artists like Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris to name a couple .

I wish Stevie would spread her wings and try something different then what she normally sings.

I haven't heard anything from Pat and Bette lately.

I love Bette's Movies.

[Jondalar]

People talk about Stevie differently like she has been soo influential more so than some other ladys. Stevie never did a lot press in the 70s or 80s. She has been playing the game well the last 15 years and It's worked. She is truly an icon, a major one.

[StevieNicksfann]

Maybe not officially chart-wise, but in terms of popularity and resurgence on the radio, I would consider Silver Springs in 1997 as her second coming

[Jondalar]

Maybe not officially chart-wise, but in terms of popularity and resurgence on the radio, I would consider Silver Springs in 1997 as her second coming

that's all, more than that I think...

[StreetAngel86]

i don't think Stevie's ever gone away and made a comeback as such (except for post rehab/the dance ... but that was a whole band thing)

she's always around, lurking, flying under the radar
making waves here and there.
i think she chooses her involvement in things fairly carefully but wants to be mainstream and current ... like with GoT (or Twilight :rolleyes:)

and ita with bombaysapphire3 you just can't make comparisons with these ladies.
i was a fan of bette's since i was about 6, way before i was a stevie fan.
i associated bette with being an actress/comedian

and cher ... well, freaking everyone knows cher whether you're a fan or not :thumbsup:

[Villavic]

Well OTOH did Stevie have a "second career" hit on the scale of Cher's "Believe"?
.

And of Cher's concert DVDs!!

[Macfanforever]

As I remember . Stevie put up a big fight with Pat B on the charts in the early 1980's.

[Jondalar]

There is something underground and cooler about Stevie than Cher. She has been embraced by alternative. I like Cher a lot and I think she is an excellent actress. However, I think her and Bette have sort of lots momentum, while Stevie is sort of like the little engine that could. She keeps getting redescovered in certain ways. She hasn't had a bonafide Top 40 song since 1989, but you wouldn't know it from the headlines. She never gave up.

(I guess I do have a beef with Cher. After she won the oscar she basically quit acting. Was that why she did it? She gave great performances in Mask, Come back to the Five and Fime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean, and movies such as Silkwood but once she got that oscar, it fealt like she lost her edge and had nothing more to prove. That woman can act. She could of been nominated a lot more oscars.)

[Dex]

Stevie is a cult-singer songwriter, which is always an act that's going to stand the test of time better than that of an out-and-out pop star, which is how I'd describe most of the women mentioned above. She's doing well for herself, for sure. But I think she compares more naturally to the likes of Joni Mitchell, Kate Bush, Dolly Parton, etc. Really individual, pioneering women singer-songwriters. And in that light I'm not sure she holds up quite as well. That's not a knock on her career, though. Those are tough acts to compare to, indeed.

[Dex]

(I guess I do have a beef with Cher. After she won the oscar she basically quit acting. Was that why she did it? She gave great performances in Mask, Come back to the Five and Fime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean, and movies such as Silkwood but once she got that oscar, it fealt like she lost her edge and had nothing more to prove. That woman can act. She could of been nominated a lot more oscars.)

I agree in some ways. I love Cher as an actress. But I think "quit acting" isn't entirely accurate. She did another lead role and has had minor roles steadily since then. And we don't really know exactly what happened. Did she consciously choose not to take on many more major roles? I can certainly understand a reluctance to continue to try and live up to such an ultimate career peak, but I'm not convinced that was the way of it.

Let's face it, after a certain point, many people felt Cher just wouldn't be "believe"able (har!) as anything other than Cher.

[MikeInNV]

Stevie is a cult-singer songwriter, which is always an act that's going to stand the test of time better than that of an out-and-out pop star, which is how I'd describe most of the women mentioned above. She's doing well for herself, for sure. But I think she compares more naturally to the likes of Joni Mitchell, Kate Bush, Dolly Parton, etc. Really individual, pioneering women singer-songwriters. And in that light I'm not sure she holds up quite as well. That's not a knock on her career, though. Those are tough acts to compare to, indeed.

She may not be as ubitquitously famous as somelike Cher, but I wouldn't go so far as cult. She's definitely more mainstream and widely known than Joni Mitchell or Kate Bush, at least in the U.S.

[Dex]

Hm, ok. Subtract "cult" from my statement. I think you're probably right. But I still think my point holds. And I'm not so sure about her being more mainstream than Joni Mitchell. She doesn't have so many hits, sure, but I think the average young American would be a lot less likely to give you a blank stare and a "who?" when you bring up Joni than when you bring up Stevie. At least that's been my experience.

[MikeInNV]

Hm, ok. Subtract "cult" from my statement. I think you're probably right. But I still think my point holds. And I'm not so sure about her being more mainstream than Joni Mitchell. She doesn't have so many hits, sure, but I think the average young American would be a lot less likely to give you a blank stare and a "who?" when you bring up Joni than when you bring up Stevie. At least that's been my experience.

Interesting to ponder who young people are more aware of. I think one of the main points of Jondalar starting the thread is that Stevie has really kept herself out there. Thanks to things like Glee, AHS, American Idol, the resurgent popularity of Landslide in the last decade, and the fact that she is name-checked by lots of younger artists, Stevie is actually VERY well known for an artist of her age and at her stage in her career.

[Jondalar]

Hm, ok. Subtract "cult" from my statement. I think you're probably right. But I still think my point holds. And I'm not so sure about her being more mainstream than Joni Mitchell. She doesn't have so many hits, sure, but I think the average young American would be a lot less likely to give you a blank stare and a "who?" when you bring up Joni than when you bring up Stevie. At least that's been my experience.

Stevie is way more famous than Joni in the United States people a lot more well-known. Joni really only had one top 10 single over here.

[Dex]

Stevie is way more famous than Joni in the United States people a lot more well-known. Joni really only had one top 10 single over here.

Yeah, she's never been much of a singles artist. But she is talked about with a certain reverence among musical artists of all ages, and people of my generation and younger are familiar with her as an influential force who "serious people" are into, even if many of us don't know much of her music ourselves. Stevie is treated that way to an extent as well, but not nearly so much. Cher, Bette etc are not really writers and are just never going to be talked about by young artists as influential in the same way, and that is why I think that comparison is somewhat unnatural/unfair.

If we're just talking about the mass's familiarity with songs and public persona, then Cher still easily takes the cake, cross-generationally.

[olive]

Stevie was never respected until she hired Liz Rosenberg as a publicist and insisted she be referred to as legendary , influential etc etc etc like who ever Jeff Goldblum hired and insisted if you want an interview he is to be introduced as The Handsome Jeff Goldblum .

[Jondalar]

Stevie was never respected until she hired Liz Rosenberg as a publicist and insisted she be referred to as legendary , influential etc etc etc like who ever Jeff Goldblum hired and insisted if you want an interview he is to be introduced as The Handsome Jeff Goldblum .

She became respected when people like Sheryl Crow and Courtney Love cited her as influence. Not really a Michael Jackson, where he demanded he be referred to as the King of Pop.

[I'msoAfraid95]

I always thought that Stevie was more popular than Cher. Maybe it's where I live?

[olive]

She became respected when people like Sheryl Crow and Courtney Love cited her as influence. Not really a Michael Jackson, where he demanded he be referred to as the King of Pop.

neither one of them are respectable, why would anyone care what they thought?

[Jondalar]

neither one of them are respectable, why would anyone care what they thought?

Both of them are respectable and probably the two most influential female rock stars of the 90s, along with Melissa Ethridge.

[He's So Unusual]

Stevie is way more famous than Joni in the United States people a lot more well-known. Joni really only had one top 10 single over here.


Joni having one top 10 single in the US doesn't change the fact that she's one of the most important and influential singer-songwriters in the history of music. Stevie, and god knows I love her, has never released a solo album as revered or as celebrated as either Blue or Court & Spark. For me, Joni's run of albums from the late 1960s to the late 1970s is unmatched by any other female artist. Stevie herself only had four solo top 10 hits on the Hot 100 at the peak of her career, the last being in 1985.

[Jondalar]

Joni having one top 10 single in the US doesn't change the fact that she's one of the most important and influential singer-songwriters in the history of music. Stevie, and god knows I love her, has never released a solo album as revered or as celebrated as either Blue or Court & Spark. For me, Joni's run of albums from the late 1960s to the late 1970s is unmatched by any other female artist. Stevie herself only had four solo top 10 hits on the Hot 100 at the peak of her career, the last being in 1985.

How did this become a Stevie vs Joni Mitchell war? I love Joni and think she is the best female songwriter ever. However, In terms of popularity, Stevie wins hands down in America.

Joni has had 4 top 40. Stevie has had 11 in the record books for her solo career, not counting Whenever I Call You Friend or Gold, which were never cited as duets. Both were top 5. (Whenever was most definitely a duet if there ever was one.) With Fleetwood Mac Stevie had 5 Top 40, not including Landslide, Gold Dust Woman or Silver Springs, three of her most popular songs. Nicks also penned the number one hit Dreams.

However, this isn't exactly what I mean't by this thread. Stevie doesn't seem to be fading away like the others. She seems to be gaining momentum.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Stevie vs Joni??? Again you are comparing apples to oranges...Joni seems to have been unwilling to compromise her art for the sake of mainstream success...On the other hand Cher,Bette and Tina all wanted the big career as an entertainer not a singer / songwriter...Where does that leave Stevie???
Stevie is clearly closer to Joni but she is willing to compromise just enough to have the mainstream success that she has...
The big question is what will the next few years hold for her with the future of FM up in the air now...

[Jondalar]

Stevie vs Joni??? Again you are comparing apples to oranges...Joni seems to have been unwilling to compromise her art for the sake of mainstream success...On the other hand Cher,Bette and Tina all wanted the big career as an entertainer not a singer / songwriter...Where does that leave Stevie???
Stevie is clearly closer to Joni but she is willing to compromise just enough to have the mainstream success that she has...
The big question is what will the next few years hold for her with the future of FM up in the air now...

Somebody else brought Joni into the mix. I think she is in a league all her own. Stevie's problem was she tried to be too mainstreem. Tried to compromise? She did flip flops, walkovers, hand springs to get on the radio...

[He's So Unusual]

How did this become a Stevie vs Joni Mitchell war? I love Joni and think she is the best female songwriter ever. However, In terms of popularity, Stevie wins hands down in America.

Well you have started this thread asking if Stevie is winning the war :confused: It just seems like you're pitting these female artists against one another.

Joni has had 4 top 40. Stevie has had 11 in the record books for her solo career, not counting Whenever I Call You Friend or Gold, which were never cited as duets. Both were top 5. (Whenever was most definitely a duet if there ever was one.) With Fleetwood Mac Stevie had 5 Top 40, not including Landslide, Gold Dust Woman or Silver Springs, three of her most popular songs. Nicks also penned the number one hit Dreams.

However, this isn't exactly what I mean't by this thread. Stevie doesn't seem to be fading away like the others. She seems to be gaining momentum.

Stevie is lucky that she's always had Fleetwood Mac to fall back on. Her solo career lost momentum in the US pretty quickly following Bella Donna and The Wild Heart, who knows if she would still be successful today had it not been for the many big FM reunions that have brought her solo career back into the spotlight. Joni Mitchell’s last studio album made the top 20 in the US and won strong reviews. You have to remember that she doesn’t tour anymore nor does she promote her music very much or make that many public appearances.

Seems like she is doing better than Cher, Bette, Linda, Pat.... a whole of them. It's like she has been an underground darkhorse for years but now she just seems to be kicking ass and standing the test of time better. Perhaps, because she didn't change.... thoughts...

Cher's new album actually charted higher in the US and the UK than Stevie's In Your Dreams. No doubt the ticket sales for Cher's upcoming arena tour will be very strong as well. Bette Midler had a successful run in Vegas a few years ago with the The Showgirl Must Go On, plus Cool Yule is the only studio album she's released since her last top 10 charting album in 2005.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Stevie is lucky that she's always had Fleetwood Mac to fall back on.

Are you sure about that??? Stevie has more or less carried the band since Christine left...She doesn't need them but they need her (remember the time years when she wasn't in FM) she's the one with the large fan base not Lindsey...Stevie can easily play large venues as a solo act just look at the success of the "Heart and Soul" tour...FM owes Stevie a big Thank You for their recent success...Stevie is still promoting IYD over 3 years later and usually makes sure people know about her band (FM) keeping "the boys" in the spotlight as well...The fact that Mick was trashing Stevie for making a record and then having audacity for touring in support of IYD is a load of crap...

[BombaySapphire3]

Are you sure about that??? Stevie has more or less carried the band since Christine left...She doesn't need them but they need her (remember the time years when she wasn't in FM) she's the one with the large fan base not Lindsey...Stevie can easily play large venues as a solo act just look at the success of the "Heart and Soul" tour...FM owes Stevie a big Thank You for their recent success...Stevie is still promoting IYD over 3 years later and usually makes sure people know about her band (FM) keeping "the boys" in the spotlight as well...The fact that Mick was trashing Stevie for making a record and then having audacity for touring in support of IYD is a load of crap...

It is true that without Stevie the Mac would no longer be the concert cash cow that it is and I agree completely about Mick..his money grubbing ways have been long known to most hardcore fans..Stevie however does need Fleetwood Mac .Her solo career was also in the hopper when Time flopped so badly it did not even chart.The Dance really brought her back in a big way.Most of the songs Stevie is known for are the Fleetwood Mac classics.The Heart and Soul tour was a success but she was essentially Rod's opening act.If she was just a solo artist that was big in the early 1980s she would likely be in the same boat as her biggest rival then Pat Benatar.:nod:

[WildHearted]

Based on my experiences as a 20 year old, the general uncultured youth has no idea who Joni Mitchell is (they would think that Counting Crows wrote Big Yellow Taxi), but many know who Stevie is, if for no other reason than her appearance with Taylor at the Grammys, her appearance on American Idol and The Voice, and the use of her music and references to her persona on Glee, AHS, etc. Everyone knows Landslide.

Obviously, there are exceptions, and there are definitely music fans etc who are young and would know of Joni and her music. But I think Stevie has made herself a larger fixture in popular culture and more of a household name (for my generation).

That said, I personally love Joni and think she and her music are wonderful. But In terms of the general population, I think Stevie is more mainstream.

[michelej1]

Are you sure about that??? Stevie has more or less carried the band since Christine left...She doesn't need them but they need her (remember the time years when she wasn't in FM) she's the one with the large fan base not Lindsey...Stevie can easily play large venues as a solo act just look at the success of the "Heart and Soul" tour.....

Playing large venues as the opening act for Rod Stewart is a lot different than playing them as the lead singer of Fleetwood Mac.

The Mac is not going to sell out arenas without Stevie Nicks, but she's not going to do it as a solo act either, although she can play on the same ticket with people who do.

There's no question that solo touring is very lucrative for Stevie. It just doesn't compare to the Mac level concert earnings.

Michele

[Jondalar]

Well you have started this thread asking if Stevie is winning the war :confused: It just seems like you're pitting these female artists against one another.



Stevie is lucky that she's always had Fleetwood Mac to fall back on. Her solo career lost momentum in the US pretty quickly following Bella Donna and The Wild Heart, who knows if she would still be successful today had it not been for the many big FM reunions that have brought her solo career back into the spotlight. Joni Mitchell’s last studio album made the top 20 in the US and won strong reviews. You have to remember that she doesn’t tour anymore nor does she promote her music very much or make that many public appearances.



Cher's new album actually charted higher in the US and the UK than Stevie's In Your Dreams. No doubt the ticket sales for Cher's upcoming arena tour will be very strong as well. Bette Midler had a successful run in Vegas a few years ago with the The Showgirl Must Go On, plus Cool Yule is the only studio album she's released since her last top 10 charting album in 2005.

I was pitting certain females at the beginning. Joni Mitchell is a different beast.

[BlueDenimLamp]

It is true that without Stevie the Mac would no longer be the concert cash cow that it is and I agree completely about Mick..his money grubbing ways have been long known to most hardcore fans..If she was just a solo artist that was big in the early 1980s she would likely be in the same boat as her biggest rival then Pat Benatar.:nod:

When I Saw Stevie on her "It's Not A Tour" tour Pat Benatar was playing the same casino the day after Stevie but Pat was playing a 800 seat lounge while Stevie played a 5000 seat hall...As far as Mick goes don't get me started...I have to wonder just how low Mick will stoop to get what he wants (another FM record and tour) next year...

[BlueDenimLamp]

Playing large venues as the opening act for Rod Stewart is a lot different than playing them as the lead singer of Fleetwood Mac.



Michele

And certainly not as profitable...

[BlueDenimLamp]

You can compare Stevie to the others all you want...Mama has one thing they don't...And that is FLEETWOOD MAC!!!

[Dreamz19]

Yeah, she's never been much of a singles artist. But she is talked about with a certain reverence among musical artists of all ages, and people of my generation and younger are familiar with her as an influential force who "serious people" are into, even if many of us don't know much of her music ourselves. Stevie is treated that way to an extent as well, but not nearly so much. Cher, Bette etc are not really writers and are just never going to be talked about by young artists as influential in the same way, and that is why I think that comparison is somewhat unnatural/unfair.

If we're just talking about the mass's familiarity with songs and public persona, then Cher still easily takes the cake, cross-generationally.

I absolutely agree with this post.

I always thought that Stevie was more popular than Cher. Maybe it's where I live?

I am a much bigger fan of Stevie, but I think Cher is more popular overall. I find that I have to explain who Stevie is more to my peers while others just know who Cher is. I also see Cher brought up on pop music boards a lot. Which has a more younger demographic. Some of them were introduced to Cher through her movie with Christina Aguilera. That could change with all of the promo Stevie has been getting with AHS. I notice that people who know I am a fan have been asking me about her and if she really is a witch lol.

[Dex]

:wavey: I believe I started the vs. Joni thing. I still think it makes more sense than the comparisons Jondalar chose. Sure, they fall on different bits of the "commercial --> artiste" spectrum, but so do all the other women you brought up, and in terms of how they're discussed by the public, I think Stevie and Joni both fit together a lot more naturally.

I think Cher wins the "commercial success" war and Joni the "influential artist" war. But the entire "war" concept is still pretty odd and seems arbitrary to me. I can't imagine many fans view it that way.