Obamacare is coming

[Macfanforever]

My gripe is they are dictating the Americans to get coverage even if they cant afford it and fined them if they dont.

Thats what I understand about it.

[GarboSpeaks!]

Stay off the grid man!!! lmao
Honestly I was just getting a lecture from my dad that this is coming. I don't wanna say how old I am, but old enough that I should have known about this-but I didn't, and I am not amused. Guess I need to start saving for my "fines." I haven't been to a doctor in over 10 years-so why the eff would I pay for care that I may not need for years at a time?!?! Ah well, new American motto: Nothing is for sure but death, Obamacare & taxes. lol

[diane_k]

This has been so misinterpreted...

Are you covered by insurance offered through your employer? Nothing will change.

Are you covered by a state and/or federally funded assistance program? Nothing will change.

Self employed and uninsured folks will now have better, more affordable options. Without the big scary death panels people on TV are hollering about.

[chiliD]

People, people, people...stop drinking the Fox News Kool-Aid. The network would internally combust if they ever uttered a truthful statement.

[olive]

This has been so misinterpreted...

Are you covered by insurance offered through your employer? Nothing will change.

Are you covered by a state and/or federally funded assistance program? Nothing will change.

Self employed and uninsured folks will now have better, more affordable options. Without the big scary death panels people on TV are hollering about.

thank you

We have the same thing AKA ROMNEYCARE in Massachusetts thank you FORMER govenor romney

Obamacare open enrollment: Here's everything you need to know from CNN


http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/26/health/obamacare-open-enrollment/?hpt=he_c1

[Macfanforever]

I have to say I have no coverage because I'm between jobs.If I was working full time .I would not be worrying about this.

I cant afford what they are charging now for coverage.

What they should do is control the medical industry with the inflated charges they give out.I know its free trade here but what they charge for what they do is nuts.

I've seen the bills from my late mother,sister,father and stepfather .They are nuts.

I just dont like the gov dictating what I got to do.

I just got to pay the $95 dollar fine or go to the clink LOL.

[Macfanforever]

thank you

We have the same thing AKA ROMNEYCARE in Massachusetts thank you FORMER govenor romney

Obamacare open enrollment: Here's everything you need to know from CNN


http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/26/health/obamacare-open-enrollment/?hpt=he_c1

Thanks for the link.

[olive]

I have to say I have no coverage because I'm between jobs.If I was working full time .I would not be worrying about this.

I cant afford what they are charging now for coverage.

What they should do is control the medical industry with the inflated charges they give out.I know its free trade here but what they charge for what they do is nuts.

I've seen the bills from my late mother,sister,father and stepfather .They are nuts.

I just dont like the gov dictating what I got to do.

I just got to pay the $95 dollar fine or go to the clink LOL.

it would be so much better if we had Health care like Canada or Europe ... oh wait ......

[Macfanforever]

People, people, people...stop drinking the Fox News Kool-Aid. The network would internally combust if they ever uttered a truthful statement.

I dont bother listening/watching those chatter shows on TV and radio because they are mostly BS from one side to the other .

I get the news online or from WCBS news 880 on the radio or other local TV/radio news outlets

[Macfanforever]

it would be so much better if we had Health care like Canada or Europe ... oh wait ......

What format do they have overseas or in Canada.

[Macfanforever]

The other details sound great on the plan but my gripe is forcing people to get a plan.

I did notice that people that smoke are in trouble as they will get hit with a higher premiums.

[Macfanforever]

If Stevie or FM tours next year .I just have to cut back on some shows to pay the insurance premium .

Other people will do the same on other things and bring us back in the hole like we were years ago .


Control medical costs from the providers is the issue they should be looking into instead of forcing people to get insurance plans to lined the industries pockets with the money from the insurance companies.

No need for those inflated charges.

Thats how I feel about it.

[Macfanforever]

I just look at the info on Connecticut and its one of the highest on the lists.

I take the fines or go to jail if I dont pay them.


I'm just pissed off over this and they can shove it.

[Jondalar]

Almost all of my friends are getting laid off. How in the hell are they going to afford COBRA on unemployment?

[diane_k]

Every state is unique, but depending on the length of the unemployment and serverity of the care needed...there might be some state assistance available. Most large scale healthcare providers have teams of folks (like at my job) that know the ins and outs of what people qualify for.

Then again I come from a state that always ranks near the top when it comes to taking care of its own, healthcare wise. I would be foolish to assume it is like that across the country.

Before you just forget the whole thing and crab about it, why not look into what's available? Ignorance does not equal bliss, despite what you may have heard.

[KarmaContestant]

I have to say I have no coverage because I'm between jobs.If I was working full time .I would not be worrying about this.

I cant afford what they are charging now for coverage.

What they should do is control the medical industry with the inflated charges they give out.I know its free trade here but what they charge for what they do is nuts.

I've seen the bills from my late mother,sister,father and stepfather .They are nuts.

I just dont like the gov dictating what I got to do.

I just got to pay the $95 dollar fine or go to the clink LOL.

You won't have to pay the fine. If you are unemployed, you will qualify for Medicare. If you make...I think..less than around 20,500 annually, you qualify for Medicare under the new law.

You can still earn up to a certain amount, and you will get a subsidy to help purchase a health plan so the burden is not 100% yours even when you are employed again, if you do not get coverage through your employer. I know the income threshold is around 80K for a family, but I can't recall the number for a single person.

I'm insured through my job, so there is no change for me. But, being HIV+ I know that someday I will need Medicare and I am so very grateful that I don't have to slave away at a corporate desk job I totally hate just to be able to get my medications. Or find a doctor to lie for me as so many other HIV+ people do, to qualify for disability. With Obamacare, I can keep working, anywhere I'd like, and know that medical coverage is going to be a non-issue in my job search when I choose to leave this job I'm in now.

[Macfanforever]

Thanks guys .I just nervous about this whole thing and I just wait and see how it will pan out.

I did see about the medicare thing about earners the make $20.000 and under.

I will fall under that bracket from my last job.

[Macfanforever]

I still see the feds should put a cap on the health industry of what they charge for work is done on people.

So far nothing has been said about this because of free trade and other issues .

If the prices were capped .People and the insurance premiums wont be so high and everybody could afford it and Obama can focus on other issues then coming up with the Affordable Healthcare Act years ago.

[APerfectLie]

I still see the feds should put a cap on the health industry of what they charge for work is done on people.

So far nothing has been said about this because of free trade and other issues .

If the prices were capped .People and the insurance premiums wont be so high and everybody could afford it and Obama can focus on other issues then coming up with the Affordable Healthcare Act years ago.

With all the healthcare lobbyists in DC, they will never pass caps on what the industry can charge us. Unfortunately, the only way to get the government to cap expenses is if the government has to pay for those expenses which is one of the many reasons why we need a single payer system.

[Jondalar]

When I was on unemployment, pulling in about 350 a week which sucked, I did not do Cobra. There was no way I could afford Cobra at almost $400 a month and be able to live. I don't understand why they even say Cobra is an option. It's not. Some people had to pay close to $1000 a month for Cobra. It's ridiculous. If I got laid off again, I won't be doing healthcare. They are nuts.

[SadAngel86]

I am currently very worried about this as well since I am over the age of 26 and am not able to be covered under my parent's insurance anymore. I am currently looking for a full-time job, (I have a part-time one hopefully coming soon, no insurance though) but I will also not be able to afford Obamacare or the "fee" that they are supposedly going to charge us for not having coverage. Plus, my grad school loans are going into repayment soon. I just don't know what to do.:shrug:

[HomerMcvie]

I'm self employed, and have my own insurance, and they(Anthem BC) just sent me a letter, saying that I could "lock into" the same plan, NOW, through 2014, but I have to sign and return the form, and it would stop me from changing plans, if I sign.


Sooo, that makes me wonder WTF they're trying to do? Keep me from getting something cheaper, that might be coming with Obamacare? IDK. Because they've never asked me to do this before. I just don't trust big business....

[jenniferuk]

I'm self employed, and have my own insurance, and they(Anthem BC) just sent me a letter, saying that I could "lock into" the same plan, NOW, through 2014, but I have to sign and return the form, and it would stop me from changing plans, if I sign.


Sooo, that makes me wonder WTF they're trying to do? Keep me from getting something cheaper, that might be coming with Obamacare? IDK. Because they've never asked me to do this before. I just don't trust big business....

You might find this of interest-KY officials questioning letters sent by Anthem and Humana (article written locally in KY and picked up by usa today, I read it somewhere else but cannot recall where).


http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/09/05/ky-probes-humana-letter-on-insurance-renewals/2774179/

[Macfanforever]

With all the healthcare lobbyists in DC, they will never pass caps on what the industry can charge us. Unfortunately, the only way to get the government to cap expenses is if the government has to pay for those expenses which is one of the many reasons why we need a single payer system.

Sorry to be blunt and negative .Lining deep pockets of our leaders .Thats what they are up to down there.

Plus they what to get the poor people off the free ride going to the emergency dept.

I support Obama on other issues but this one .I say no.

All I see is a big mess with this going into action.Its geared to make the insurers to get richer and the medical industry to get richer on us poor folks.

I dont have any money to throw away on some sheety plan that i still got to pay a lump sum out of my pocket.

I hope it backfires.

I dont like big GOV telling me to buy a insurance plan is my only rant here.

It might help some but not all.

Sorry guys.

[HomerMcvie]

You might find this of interest-KY officials questioning letters sent by Anthem and Humana (article written locally in KY and picked up by usa today, I read it somewhere else but cannot recall where).


http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/09/05/ky-probes-humana-letter-on-insurance-renewals/2774179/

THANK YOU for that!

So does anyone know....will the new "forced" plans be income based? Will two people of the same age, and same health history, be charged the same, say...if one makes 20K, and the other 100K?

Because I do "fairly well", and if it IS income based, maybe I would be better off signing onto another year of Anthem? Hell, I don't know! I do plan on calling my agent tomorrow, and see what they think about it.

[jenniferuk]

THANK YOU for that!

So does anyone know....will the new "forced" plans be income based? Will two people of the same age, and same health history, be charged the same, say...if one makes 20K, and the other 100K?

Because I do "fairly well", and if it IS income based, maybe I would be better off signing onto another year of Anthem? Hell, I don't know! I do plan on calling my agent tomorrow, and she what they think about it.

I can't speak to the accuracy of this but it was posted by a friend of mine and seems legit. Afaik rates are based on household income, location, and age and I think smokers can be charged more. I do not think health history is a factor. What confused me is how income works--ours often fluctuates but I think all that matters is approximate income. Lower incomes will get a subsidy and such

we did cobra briefly as I lost my job and insurance and my husband was self employed contractor. Luckily last month he got hired on with benefits otherwise we were facing obamacre (unsubsidized due to income) or a private plan. The calc will give approx obamacare fees until real numbers are avail -Oct 1 I think.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/.

[HomerMcvie]

I can't speak to the accuracy of this but it was posted by a friend of mine and seems legit. Afaik rates are based on household income, location, and age and I think smokers can be charged more. I do not think health history is a factor. What confused me is how income works--ours often fluctuates but I think all that matters is approximate income. Lower incomes will get a subsidy and such

we did cobra briefly as I lost my job and insurance and my husband was self employed contractor. Luckily last month he got hired on with benefits otherwise we were facing obamacre (unsubsidized due to income) or a private plan. The calc will give approx obamacare fees until real numbers are avail -Oct 1 I think.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/.
Well pardon my French, but that blows goats! According to that link, I will be paying TWICE what I pay now.:mad:
Now, I've had my own insurance for about 17 years, and wanna know how much I've used it? MAYBE 3 physicals, and probably 6 office visits, in all those years. So that's why health history should matter!

So if I made 20K/year, I'd owe $1021/yr. But since I make...more than that, I owe the full $2535/yr. Says the guy who doesn't even need a doctor once a year!:mad: FWIW, I currently pay $1500/yr.

I hope Obamacare gets obliterated!:mad:

[jenniferuk]

Well pardon my French, but that blows goats! According to that link, I will be paying TWICE what I pay now.:mad:
Now, I've had my own insurance for about 17 years, and wanna know how much I've used it? MAYBE 3 physicals, and probably 6 office visits, in all those years. So that's why health history should matter!

So if I made 20K/year, I'd owe $1021/yr. But since I make...more than that, I owe the full $2535/yr. Says the guy who doesn't even need a doctor once a year!:mad: FWIW, I currently pay $1500/yr.

I hope Obamacare gets obliterated!:mad:

I hear ya! For our family the full rate is $7766, but out of pocket max is $12700 so I get the feeling we'd be shelling out for copays and shared costs. Our cobra was $1200 a month and I never got quotes from private plans but I want to have a plan in case we ever lose employer cover again.

Will be interesting to see what info each state shares his week-

[Macfanforever]

I can't speak to the accuracy of this but it was posted by a friend of mine and seems legit. Afaik rates are based on household income, location, and age and I think smokers can be charged more. I do not think health history is a factor. What confused me is how income works--ours often fluctuates but I think all that matters is approximate income. Lower incomes will get a subsidy and such

we did cobra briefly as I lost my job and insurance and my husband was self employed contractor. Luckily last month he got hired on with benefits otherwise we were facing obamacre (unsubsidized due to income) or a private plan. The calc will give approx obamacare fees until real numbers are avail -Oct 1 I think.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/.

What I've read .They will charge alot more for the people who smoke.Like penalize them from smoking.

Thank goodness that I dont smoke.

[HomerMcvie]

What I've read .They will charge alot more for the people who smoke.Like penalize them from smoking.

Thank goodness that I dont smoke.

I actually like that part! You know, I pretty much hate government intervention in any aspect of our lives, BUT,

Smoking kills, and secondhand smoke kills. So many health care costs are associated with smoking. My city went smoke free about 7 years ago, and it was just the best thing ever. I never realized how bad it really was, until a couple months after it was gone. And it's heaven now.

I think it's completely fair that insurance companies charge smokers more. I mean, when they get lung cancer, odds are, that they did it to themselves.

[Macfanforever]

I actually like that part! You know, I pretty much hate government intervention in any aspect of our lives, BUT,

Smoking kills, and secondhand smoke kills. So many health care costs are associated with smoking. My city went smoke free about 7 years ago, and it was just the best thing ever. I never realized how bad it really was, until a couple months after it was gone. And it's heaven now.

I think it's completely fair that insurance companies charge smokers more. I mean, when they get lung cancer, odds are, that they did it to themselves.

I agree.Yes I see that.

Yes the more and more I hear about this Obamacare crap .The more I get pissed off about it.I refused to turn on the TV news at this point.

Another Rant.

As I see it we are living in a country with dictators and socialism. They tell you ."YOU BETTER GET COVERAGE "or we fine you.

Again I hope it backfires.

Yes Change the language in the bill with the mandated crap.I might like Obamacare.

[chiliD]

The easiest thing they could've done was just lower the qualifying age of Medicare from 65 to ZERO! Just go "National Health" like England & Canada. I spent a lengthy time in Canada back in the early 80s & because I was employed up there, I was covered under the Candian National Health plan. I only need to use services once, but it was smooth & efficient (at least the one time I got sick); a couple of other people in my band used services a bit. Every incidence was just great. I have nothing bad to say about my experiences with the Canadian National Health. :shrug:

Just don't understand how the USA can't get something like that implemented. Oh, yeah, we're run by Corporations (Insurance Companies) not the Government, that's why. :nod:

[Jondalar]

I actually like that part! You know, I pretty much hate government intervention in any aspect of our lives, BUT,

Smoking kills, and secondhand smoke kills. So many health care costs are associated with smoking. My city went smoke free about 7 years ago, and it was just the best thing ever. I never realized how bad it really was, until a couple months after it was gone. And it's heaven now.

I think it's completely fair that insurance companies charge smokers more. I mean, when they get lung cancer, odds are, that they did it to themselves.

Everything kills. I don't smoke anymore but I think the way they are treated is ridiculous. I think that fat people are going to get it next. People with children should be charged more becuase kids kill. Also, people who eat red meat because they more likely to get cancer. la la la la

[Macfanforever]

Everything kills. I don't smoke anymore but I think the way they are treated is ridiculous. I think that fat people are going to get it next. People with children should be charged more becuase kids kill. Also, people who eat red meat because they more likely to get cancer. la la la la

Will I probably fall in the fat dept if I did not do my daily walks and other workouts.

I'm doing better with the workouts.

Alot I do eat red meat.I probably get fined on eating red meat.LOL.

Also they probably go after to drinkers as they are doing with the ciggy's.

[Dex]

The easiest thing they could've done was just lower the qualifying age of Medicare from 65 to ZERO! Just go "National Health" like England & Canada. I spent a lengthy time in Canada back in the early 80s & because I was employed up there, I was covered under the Candian National Health plan. I only need to use services once, but it was smooth & efficient (at least the one time I got sick); a couple of other people in my band used services a bit. Every incidence was just great. I have nothing bad to say about my experiences with the Canadian National Health. :shrug:

I'm happy your experiences in Canada were so positive, chiliD. Have to quibble a bit, though. There is actually no such thing as "Canadian National Health", healthcare falls under the provincial umbrella. Every province has its own healthcare service. What province were you in, out of curiosity?

Everything kills. I don't smoke anymore but I think the way they are treated is ridiculous. I think that fat people are going to get it next. People with children should be charged more becuase kids kill. Also, people who eat red meat because they more likely to get cancer. la la la la

I completely agree, Jondalar. This highlights one of the major problems with for-profit healthcare to me, but I won't get too soapboxy about it. Basically, people's lifestyle choices need to be accepted without punishment when it comes to healthcare. At the end of the day there are just too many variables to factor them all in. Do we give the agoraphobe much cheaper coverage because he never leaves his house and is unlikely to die in a vehicular accident? It's too much of a can of worms. Smokers are villainized too often as the bane of a healthy society, when in fact almost every practice in modern society is unhealthy to a degree. It's just not fair.

Edited for ze typos

[Macfanforever]

Now we are in shutdown and the meantime the Obamacare sites are on overload and nobody cant get on them.

[diane_k]

^ Mr. Positivity.

There would have been stricter language in the ACA had O not caved a few times to the GOP/TP's. Single payer could have happened. A lot of better provisions could have been in the bill. But the good old red white and blue lobbyists pulled as many strings as possible, and this is what we were left with.

Still, I think that people might just CTFD when their subsidies start rolling in.

[TrueFaith77]

I neither know nor care anything about Obamacare. But I did laugh on a news show when someone was saying that there were two good things about Obamacare: 1. Everyone will be covered 2. Healthcare costs will go down (though premiums/deductibles will go up)

I thought that was strange. Sounds like the insurance companies win. :shrug:

[Macfanforever]

Like i said earlier .Get rid of that threat of penalizing and fining and forcing Americans that dont want the packages because of the costs .

WTF do we live in a communist country.

Medicaid will go broke do to the overload of people that go on it.

Control medical costs and get rid of medical lobbyists that line pockets of leaders.

[vivfox]

I am all for Obama care and know this is a great thing for all Americans. It's all about practicing preventive health care which will benefit all of us in the long run. When I lived in Az. I had no health insurance and it sucked. Just before I moved to Ma. it was implemented in this state and it is all income based if you are self employed like I am. Thanks to universal healthcare available to all Ma. citizens I was able to afford needed medications and have one expensive surgery that had I still been living in Az. would never have been able to afford and never would have known I had high cholesterol, which is presently under control, but left unchecked could have caused a future heart attack.
When one goes to file an income tax, your preparer will ask you for your insurance ID card and make a copy to be included with your tax papers. If you don't have insurance the IRS will deduct 900.00 from your rebate.

[Dex]

WTF do we live in a communist country.


I'm afraid you do, yes. That is exactly what communism is.

[Macfanforever]

WTF .I just log on to the Connecticut's Obamacare site The cheapest is a whopping $369.10 for the bronze plan.I dont have that kind of money and so does others.


It looks like I will try to go on Medicaid or pay the efff ing fines.

I smell corruption here.


And other way to eff the Americans.

[vivfox]

WTF .I just log on to the Connecticut's Obamacare site The cheapest is a whopping $369.10 for the bronze plan.I dont have that kind of money and so does others.


While it is true Ct. has high premiums for working citizens, you my friend will be able to practically pay no deductible if any, because you are unemployed. It's an income based system. Just relax.

[HejiraNYC]

I don't know where to begin on this... there is too much manufactured outrage over Obamacare and too little discussion about the issue at hand: your health. A few points:

1. For those of you who are not insured for whatever reason, what is your Plan B? In other words, what do you expect to happen in the event of a catastrophic illness such as advanced cancer (which remained undiagnosed due to your reluctance to seek preventive medical care)? What about a sudden stroke? What if you take a bad fall and fracture your pelvis? Your spine? You become a quadroplegic? Do you have the tens-, hundreds-of-thousands of dollars saved up to receive the necessary treatment to save your life or quality of life? Or do you plan to wipe yourself out financially and declare bankruptcy in the midst of a debilitating illness? Are you willing to accept less expensive, substandard care? Or are you just going to forfeit treatment and let the illness run its painful course? Chances are, on some deep psychological level, I suspect most people assume that there is a safety net somewhere in the U.S. healthcare system. Uncle Sam will rise up and save the day! Well... that is indeed true in some cases- for people of retirement age on Medicare and the truly destitute who qualify for state Medicaid. But if you are solidly middle class and employed with some assets, you really don't have a safety net. Indeed, the reality of healthcare today in the U.S. is that people are literally dying from treatable illnesses because they don't qualify for government entitlements and they cannot afford insurance and/or medical care. The intent of Obamacare is to make insurance accessible to everyone, particularly the lower income middle class, via subsidies.

2. Health insurance today is expensive. It is not going to be much cheaper under Obamacare for most people. But it offers some critical advantages for some: healthcare portability (i.e., the ability to change insurance carriers without the risk of being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions), access to health insurance for low income people who don't qualify for Medic-are/aid via substantial subsidies, etc. By forcing all people to obtain coverage, it forces more healthy young people to start paying into the system to offset the cost of keeping older, sicker people with pre-existing conditions insured. Indeed, as the Supreme Court ruled earlier this year, this is much like a tax along the lines of Social Security. Yes, nobody wants to pay more taxes. But at least this particular tax has the tangible benefit of improving your own quality of life as well as helping others. Expanding healthcare coverage also means more people are receiving check-ups and potentially averting expensive hospitalizations. Plus healthcare portability introduces an element of competition. All of these things should *theoretically* force insurance companies to drive down rates; however, this may or may not actually materialize.

3. Obamacare is not a single-payer system like much of the rest of the Western world. It's not ideal, but neither is a single-payer system. Yes, a single-payer system eliminates much administrative overhead and appears to deliver healthcare more efficiently and cheaply since the costs for salaries, hospitals, drugs and devices are all capped. However, in many instances, you get what you pay for. Money drives innovation. And money tends to attract the best talent. Although the current U.S. healthcare system is appalling, the U.S. has among the most important medical institutions and practitioners in the world. And it's also where the most money is funneled into research and development of new drugs. You will not see state of the art innovation and world reknown experts in their fields in state-run facilities making government salaries. This is critical when it comes to life-threatening/terminal diseases; in the U.S. you can always get a second opinion (if you pay for it or if your insurance covers it).

4. Most other Western countries have a single-payer system. However, they also have lofty value added taxes (VAT) of upwards of 15%+ levied on all goods and services. This is why a $15 CD in the U.S. costs $25 in the UK and it's the reason why foreigners everywhere come to the U.S. to bargain shop. It's a terribly regressive tax that places a disproportionate burden on lower income earners (as a percentage of income). Over time, if you buy groceries, eat at restaurants, buy clothes, go to the movies, etc., you will essentially be paying the equivalent of an Obamacare premium in VAT. Alternatively, if the U.S. took on a single-payer system that was largely funded by a VAT, the prices for everything will skyrocket while salaries remain stagnant and the economy will suffer. The quality of care will suffer as well.

Yes, everybody's situation is different, and some people are truly bummed about having to pony up for health insurance. But it really pays to review your options and to see how you will be personally impacted before passing judgment. It's not a perfect system, and it will certainly be tweaked over time. But it's a necessary start toward leveling the playing field and making health insurance affordable for lower income people and people with pre-existing conditions.

[Macfanforever]

I am all for Obama care and know this is a great thing for all Americans. It's all about practicing preventive health care which will benefit all of us in the long run. When I lived in Az. I had no health insurance and it sucked. Just before I moved to Ma. it was implemented in this state and it is all income based if you are self employed like I am. Thanks to universal healthcare available to all Ma. citizens I was able to afford needed medications and have one expensive surgery that had I still been living in Az. would never have been able to afford and never would have known I had high cholesterol, which is presently under control, but left unchecked could have caused a future heart attack.
When one goes to file an income tax, your preparer will ask you for your insurance ID card and make a copy to be included with your tax papers. If you don't have insurance the IRS will deduct 900.00 from your rebate.

Like I said The rest of the package is great but dont dictate to the people they have to get it or else.

All of the jobs that I had I always had their healthcare coverage .


I figure thats how they will collect the fine out of the IRS refund or send them a check.

I understand the point on the must have car insurance but enforcing health insurance is nuts.

[Macfanforever]

I don't know where to begin on this... there is too much manufactured outrage over Obamacare and too little discussion about the issue at hand: your health. A few points:

1. For those of you who are not insured for whatever reason, what is your Plan B? In other words, what do you expect to happen in the event of a catastrophic illness such as advanced cancer (which remained undiagnosed due to your reluctance to seek preventive medical care)? What about a sudden stroke? What if you take a bad fall and fracture your pelvis? Your spine? You become a quadroplegic? Do you have the tens-, hundreds-of-thousands of dollars saved up to receive the necessary treatment to save your life or quality of life? Or do you plan to wipe yourself out financially and declare bankruptcy in the midst of a debilitating illness? Are you willing to accept less expensive, substandard care? Or are you just going to forfeit treatment and let the illness run its painful course? Chances are, on some deep psychological level, I suspect most people assume that there is a safety net somewhere in the U.S. healthcare system. Uncle Sam will rise up and save the day! Well... that is indeed true in some cases- for people of retirement age on Medicare and the truly destitute who qualify for state Medicaid. But if you are solidly middle class and employed with some assets, you really don't have a safety net. Indeed, the reality of healthcare today in the U.S. is that people are literally dying from treatable illnesses because they don't qualify for government entitlements and they cannot afford insurance and/or medical care. The intent of Obamacare is to make insurance accessible to everyone, particularly the lower income middle class, via subsidies.

2. Health insurance today is expensive. It is not going to be much cheaper under Obamacare for most people. But it offers some critical advantages for some: healthcare portability (i.e., the ability to change insurance carriers without the risk of being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions), access to health insurance for low income people who don't qualify for Medic-are/aid via substantial subsidies, etc. By forcing all people to obtain coverage, it forces more healthy young people to start paying into the system to offset the cost of keeping older, sicker people with pre-existing conditions insured. Indeed, as the Supreme Court ruled earlier this year, this is much like a tax along the lines of Social Security. Yes, nobody wants to pay more taxes. But at least this particular tax has the tangible benefit of improving your own quality of life as well as helping others. Expanding healthcare coverage also means more people are receiving check-ups and potentially averting expensive hospitalizations. Plus healthcare portability introduces an element of competition. All of these things should *theoretically* force insurance companies to drive down rates; however, this may or may not actually materialize.

3. Obamacare is not a single-payer system like much of the rest of the Western world. It's not ideal, but neither is a single-payer system. Yes, a single-payer system eliminates much administrative overhead and appears to deliver healthcare more efficiently and cheaply since the costs for salaries, hospitals, drugs and devices are all capped. However, in many instances, you get what you pay for. Money drives innovation. And money tends to attract the best talent. Although the current U.S. healthcare system is appalling, the U.S. has among the most important medical institutions and practitioners in the world. And it's also where the most money is funneled into research and development of new drugs. You will not see state of the art innovation and world reknown experts in their fields in state-run facilities making government salaries. This is critical when it comes to life-threatening/terminal diseases; in the U.S. you can always get a second opinion (if you pay for it or if your insurance covers it).

4. Most other Western countries have a single-payer system. However, they also have lofty value added taxes (VAT) of upwards of 15%+ levied on all goods and services. This is why a $15 CD in the U.S. costs $25 in the UK and it's the reason why foreigners everywhere come to the U.S. to bargain shop. It's a terribly regressive tax that places a disproportionate burden on lower income earners (as a percentage of income). Over time, if you buy groceries, eat at restaurants, buy clothes, go to the movies, etc., you will essentially be paying the equivalent of an Obamacare premium in VAT. Alternatively, if the U.S. took on a single-payer system that was largely funded by a VAT, the prices for everything will skyrocket while salaries remain stagnant and the economy will suffer. The quality of care will suffer as well.

Yes, everybody's situation is different, and some people are truly bummed about having to pony up for health insurance. But it really pays to review your options and to see how you will be personally impacted before passing judgment. It's not a perfect system, and it will certainly be tweaked over time. But it's a necessary start toward leveling the playing field and making health insurance affordable for lower income people and people with pre-existing conditions.


Thanks for the input Ed.Its nice to hear from you.

While it is true Ct. has high premiums for working citizens, you my friend will be able to practically pay no deductible if any, because you are unemployed. It's an income based system. Just relax.

Yes I agree and understand. I'm just frustrated over this whole thing here .

If they had a price of $125 on the exchange .I would go for it and shut up about it.

[olive]

who's on the death panels ?

[jenniferuk]

An overview of the penalties--for 2014 it is $95 per adult or 1% of income. Apols if this isn't accurate in some way but I haven't seen the $900 pen reported. We have several expat friends without insurance trying to go with Obamacare as it is too risky to do without any cover.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2013/09/23/countdown-to-obamacare-the-penalties-for-uninsured-americans


Apparently the calculators have gone live today but there are some glitches--a friend received several different quotes using the same info and said there are a few system bugs (in Cali at least). So, give it time and try again if the quote doesn't appear correct.

[vivfox]

An overview of the penalties--for 2014 it is $95 per adult or 1% of income. Apols if this isn't accurate in some way but I haven't seen the $900 pen reported.


It is 900.00 in Ma. and without checking I thought the rest of the country was based on my state's plan. A 95.00 fine won't make people feel forced to buy health insurance but the higher fine should do the trick.

[olive]

if it's anything like romneycare which is what we have in Massachusetts the fine will applied to the insurance , no one has ever gone to jail

[jenniferuk]

It is 900.00 in Ma. and without checking I thought the rest of the country was based on my state's plan. A 95.00 fine won't make people feel forced to buy health insurance but the higher fine should do the trick.

Got it--thanks for the info.

[Macfanforever]

if it's anything like romneycare which is what we have in Massachusetts the fine will applied to the insurance , no one has ever gone to jail

Forget Romney too.

[seekerj]

If Stevie or FM tours next year .I just have to cut back on some shows to pay the insurance premium .

Other people will do the same on other things and bring us back in the hole like we were years ago .


Control medical costs from the providers is the issue they should be looking into instead of forcing people to get insurance plans to lined the industries pockets with the money from the insurance companies.

No need for those inflated charges.

Thats how I feel about it.

From working at a health insurance company for almost 25 years, I can tell you it's not the providers, but the health insurance industry that drives up the costs. It's the administrative nightmare they've created with layers and layers of managers who have huge salaries that are not warranted, plus the fact that in any given area of any healthcare company, only 2% of the people actually do the work and the other 98% just go along for the ride and are paid the same money. All they have to do is show up at the beginning of the day, and go home at the end. And then, the companies really don't do much anyway and push all the work back on the providers, causing them to hire additional staff to handle all the work involved with insurance company policy. And don't forget that each company has its own IT department developing systems, which means hundreds or thousands of business analysts, systems analysts, programmers, testers, and of course, at least two or three managers for each single employee. And they aren't even the experts at IT development in the first place, but instead of paying IT companies that are the experts, they spend tons of money on system development internally, and often the systems aren't even implemented anyway, for many reasons. One is the fact that they don't use experienced people, because for some reason, the companies believe that you don't have to know anything about health insurance, you just have to have writing skills. By the time they plan and build and test and finally figure out that the system won't work, they've already thrown a ton of cash right out the window. The waste of money is unbelieveable.

[Macfanforever]

From working at a health insurance company for almost 25 years, I can tell you it's not the providers, but the health insurance industry that drives up the costs. It's the administrative nightmare they've created with layers and layers of managers who have huge salaries that are not warranted, plus the fact that in any given area of any healthcare company, only 2% of the people actually do the work and the other 98% just go along for the ride and are paid the same money. All they have to do is show up at the beginning of the day, and go home at the end. And then, the companies really don't do much anyway and push all the work back on the providers, causing them to hire additional staff to handle all the work involved with insurance company policy. And don't forget that each company has its own IT department developing systems, which means hundreds or thousands of business analysts, systems analysts, programmers, testers, and of course, at least two or three managers for each single employee. And they aren't even the experts at IT development in the first place, but instead of paying IT companies that are the experts, they spend tons of money on system development internally, and often the systems aren't even implemented anyway, for many reasons. One is the fact that they don't use experienced people, because for some reason, the companies believe that you don't have to know anything about health insurance, you just have to have writing skills. By the time they plan and build and test and finally figure out that the system won't work, they've already thrown a ton of cash right out the window. The waste of money is unbelieveable.

Yes I agree.Its the administrative dept that kills any business.Look at the charities .
The people who get the money to help them which is almost nothing after the administrative fees take most of the donated money.

Also bloated malpractice suits did not help the matter either.


Its like Home Depot or Lowe's charging the government $500 plus bucks for a cheap toilet seat that worth about $25 bucks.

[Macfanforever]

I finally logged back onto AccesshealthCT site to read on and make a account.So far the site crapped out again.

I just wait a couple of days and try again.

I want to double check the rates again and maybe I read it wrong which I dont believe I did.


$369.10 for the bronze plan is crazy and I can see that medicaid will go bankrupt in a short time because most of the people cant afford $369.10 a month just for the cheapest plan.

It did not even ask me if I smoked.Which was strange.

I could not imagine what the gold and the family plans cost.

[MikeInNV]

I don't know where to begin on this... there is too much manufactured outrage over Obamacare and too little discussion about the issue at hand: your health. A few points:

1. For those of you who are not insured for whatever reason, what is your Plan B? In other words, what do you expect to happen in the event of a catastrophic illness such as advanced cancer (which remained undiagnosed due to your reluctance to seek preventive medical care)? What about a sudden stroke? What if you take a bad fall and fracture your pelvis? Your spine? You become a quadroplegic? Do you have the tens-, hundreds-of-thousands of dollars saved up to receive the necessary treatment to save your life or quality of life? Or do you plan to wipe yourself out financially and declare bankruptcy in the midst of a debilitating illness? Are you willing to accept less expensive, substandard care? Or are you just going to forfeit treatment and let the illness run its painful course? Chances are, on some deep psychological level, I suspect most people assume that there is a safety net somewhere in the U.S. healthcare system. Uncle Sam will rise up and save the day! Well... that is indeed true in some cases- for people of retirement age on Medicare and the truly destitute who qualify for state Medicaid. But if you are solidly middle class and employed with some assets, you really don't have a safety net. Indeed, the reality of healthcare today in the U.S. is that people are literally dying from treatable illnesses because they don't qualify for government entitlements and they cannot afford insurance and/or medical care. The intent of Obamacare is to make insurance accessible to everyone, particularly the lower income middle class, via subsidies.

2. Health insurance today is expensive. It is not going to be much cheaper under Obamacare for most people. But it offers some critical advantages for some: healthcare portability (i.e., the ability to change insurance carriers without the risk of being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions), access to health insurance for low income people who don't qualify for Medic-are/aid via substantial subsidies, etc. By forcing all people to obtain coverage, it forces more healthy young people to start paying into the system to offset the cost of keeping older, sicker people with pre-existing conditions insured. Indeed, as the Supreme Court ruled earlier this year, this is much like a tax along the lines of Social Security. Yes, nobody wants to pay more taxes. But at least this particular tax has the tangible benefit of improving your own quality of life as well as helping others. Expanding healthcare coverage also means more people are receiving check-ups and potentially averting expensive hospitalizations. Plus healthcare portability introduces an element of competition. All of these things should *theoretically* force insurance companies to drive down rates; however, this may or may not actually materialize.

3. Obamacare is not a single-payer system like much of the rest of the Western world. It's not ideal, but neither is a single-payer system. Yes, a single-payer system eliminates much administrative overhead and appears to deliver healthcare more efficiently and cheaply since the costs for salaries, hospitals, drugs and devices are all capped. However, in many instances, you get what you pay for. Money drives innovation. And money tends to attract the best talent. Although the current U.S. healthcare system is appalling, the U.S. has among the most important medical institutions and practitioners in the world. And it's also where the most money is funneled into research and development of new drugs. You will not see state of the art innovation and world reknown experts in their fields in state-run facilities making government salaries. This is critical when it comes to life-threatening/terminal diseases; in the U.S. you can always get a second opinion (if you pay for it or if your insurance covers it).

4. Most other Western countries have a single-payer system. However, they also have lofty value added taxes (VAT) of upwards of 15%+ levied on all goods and services. This is why a $15 CD in the U.S. costs $25 in the UK and it's the reason why foreigners everywhere come to the U.S. to bargain shop. It's a terribly regressive tax that places a disproportionate burden on lower income earners (as a percentage of income). Over time, if you buy groceries, eat at restaurants, buy clothes, go to the movies, etc., you will essentially be paying the equivalent of an Obamacare premium in VAT. Alternatively, if the U.S. took on a single-payer system that was largely funded by a VAT, the prices for everything will skyrocket while salaries remain stagnant and the economy will suffer. The quality of care will suffer as well.

Yes, everybody's situation is different, and some people are truly bummed about having to pony up for health insurance. But it really pays to review your options and to see how you will be personally impacted before passing judgment. It's not a perfect system, and it will certainly be tweaked over time. But it's a necessary start toward leveling the playing field and making health insurance affordable for lower income people and people with pre-existing conditions.

I love you. :angel:

[Macfanforever]

Its sad to see they have closed down the country with its employees on furlough which will hurt in the long run if they cant decide to make up their minds over this ordeal.I blame both sides on this.

[HejiraNYC]

Its sad to see they have closed down the country with its employees on furlough which will hurt in the long run if they cant decide to make up their minds over this ordeal.I blame both sides on this.

Blame should be placed where it belongs: the GOP. They are the ones who are continuing to use every obstructionist tactic possible to undermine the president. They are basically holding the U.S. government hostage; the president cannot cave into the whims of these domestic terrorists.

[Macfanforever]

Blame should be placed where it belongs: the GOP. They are the ones who are continuing to use every obstructionist tactic possible to undermine the president. They are basically holding the U.S. government hostage; the president cannot cave into the whims of these domestic terrorists.

Yes you are right after the info on the shutdown sank in my head as I did my walk tonight or last night.

They pulled this back in December and almost cause a shutdown.

Lets see how long it will take for them to breakdown and put people and things back as they were on the 30th of Sept.

[Jondalar]

Blame should be placed where it belongs: the GOP. They are the ones who are continuing to use every obstructionist tactic possible to undermine the president. They are basically holding the U.S. government hostage; the president cannot cave into the whims of these domestic terrorists.

I do agree with this. The GOP used every tactic possible to hurt Obamacare. However, Obama never stood up to them when this was going on. He made concession after concession and came off like a weak president. He was part of the problem. That is why I voted for Hillary during the primaries. Her and Bill were the only ones who could beat the Republicans at their own game. She loves socking it to them. I don't think Obama is going to be remembered as that strong of a president because of how he let the Republicans run all over him.

[MikeInNV]

Blame should be placed where it belongs: the GOP. They are the ones who are continuing to use every obstructionist tactic possible to undermine the president. They are basically holding the U.S. government hostage; the president cannot cave into the whims of these domestic terrorists.

You're quickly becoming my favorite Ledgie ever.

Signed,
A Furloughed Government Employee

[Silver23]

So guys, what country would be best for moving to in the future, England or Canada?

Seriously, my Liberal self and my Conservative friends compromise/listen to one another all the time, including Affordable Care Act viewpoints.

It's really stupid that 40+ year old men and women are acting like children about this issue. Makes me wonder if these Congressmen and Congresswomen need a few years in the service industry to find out what life is really like for many Americans, especially the millennials.

I would like to commend the people on the ledge for acting polite about this issue though. I was reading through my Facebook and happened upon Cosmo statusing about the issue. Nasty insults were being flung everywhere. :(

[jwd]

WOW! Thank God I have employer provided health insurance. I pay roughly $600 a year for an 80/20 plan with a $600 HRA contribution from my employer to boot. I've been snooping around on the exchanges and they are not cheap. The cheapest plan on my state's exchange would be $3000 for insurance with a $5000 deductible! Not sure of the subsidy the government would povide but I think if I were a healthy young person I'd opt for the $95 penalty and take my chances.

[Macfanforever]

WOW! Thank God I have employer provided health insurance. I pay roughly $600 a year for an 80/20 plan with a $600 HRA contribution from my employer to boot. I've been snooping around on the exchanges and they are not cheap. The cheapest plan on my state's exchange would be $3000 for insurance with a $5000 deductible! Not sure of the subsidy the government would povide but I think if I were a healthy young person I'd opt for the $95 penalty and take my chances.

I wonder if the rates will go down when all the healthy people sign on it or it will balance out with people with health issues will cost the insurers money.

[jwd]

I wonder if the rates will go down when all the healthy people sign on it or it will balance out with people with health issues will cost the insurers money.

Why will the healthy people sign on? The penalty is cheaper than the insurance. If you get sick can't you pick up insurance? Or is there a window when you are eligible to sign up?

[HomerMcvie]

WOW! Thank God I have employer provided health insurance. I pay roughly $600 a year for an 80/20 plan with a $600 HRA contribution from my employer to boot. I've been snooping around on the exchanges and they are not cheap. The cheapest plan on my state's exchange would be $3000 for insurance with a $5000 deductible! Not sure of the subsidy the government would povide but I think if I were a healthy young person I'd opt for the $95 penalty and take my chances.

EXACTLY. If you're young(under 30-35) and healthy, you might as well take your chances. $95 penalty is a joke.

I've had my own insurance for about 17 years now, and it's consistently gone up(obviously), even that I've never had any sort of major claim.

And again, I looked at "their plans", and they would still be about $1100 more a year, than I am CURRENTLY paying. So WTF does "AFFORDABLE" Health Care mean to me? "Bend over, healthy, responsible citizen, who has done the right thing, for the past 17 years, and worked your ass off, your entire life, and now we're gonna F you? You do "okay" so you're going to pay the most, even though you're healthy". Sorry, but that's Socialism, at it's finest..... The gov't can stay shut down, as far as I care.:shocked:

[MikeInNV]

EXACTLY. If you're young(under 30-35) and healthy, you might as well take your chances. $95 penalty is a joke.

I've had my own insurance for about 17 years now, and it's consistently gone up(obviously), even that I've never had any sort of major claim.

And again, I looked at "their plans", and they would still be about $1100 more a year, than I am CURRENTLY paying. So WTF does "AFFORDABLE" Health Care mean to me? "Bend over, healthy, responsible citizen, who has done the right thing, for the past 17 years, and worked your ass off, your entire life, and now we're gonna F you? You do "okay" so you're going to pay the most, even though you're healthy". Sorry, but that's Socialism, at it's finest..... The gov't can stay shut down, as far as I care.:shocked:

Are you not able to continue with the plan you've always had?

[HomerMcvie]

Are you not able to continue with the plan you've always had?

They are willing to let me lock in for one more year, with only about a 10% increase in premium. However, they also told me to expect a 47% increase, after the one year lock.

[Macfanforever]

Why will the healthy people sign on? The penalty is cheaper than the insurance. If you get sick can't you pick up insurance? Or is there a window when you are eligible to sign up?

EXACTLY. If you're young(under 30-35) and healthy, you might as well take your chances. $95 penalty is a joke.

I've had my own insurance for about 17 years now, and it's consistently gone up(obviously), even that I've never had any sort of major claim.

And again, I looked at "their plans", and they would still be about $1100 more a year, than I am CURRENTLY paying. So WTF does "AFFORDABLE" Health Care mean to me? "Bend over, healthy, responsible citizen, who has done the right thing, for the past 17 years, and worked your ass off, your entire life, and now we're gonna F you? You do "okay" so you're going to pay the most, even though you're healthy". Sorry, but that's Socialism, at it's finest..... The gov't can stay shut down, as far as I care.:shocked:

They will be dumping money into the insurers and not using it all the time.Like car insurance. No accidents .cheaper plans.

My friend is a smoker.He said he will get hammered do to his smoking habit.

I agree on the penalty.Thats one thing they are fighting about down there.

[HomerMcvie]

They will be dumping money into the insurers and not using it all the time.Like car insurance. No accidents .cheaper plans.

My friend is a smoker.He said he will get hammered do to his smoking habit.

I agree on the penalty.Thats one thing they are fighting about down there.
Again, on the smoking, I think that's fair. I feel the same about obesity(barring a medical condition CAUSING the obesity). If you smoke, you should pay more. If you choose to weigh 400 lbs, you should pay more. And conversely, if you're healthy, with no high risk issues, you should pay less.

Okay, so the healthy guy, who makes a good living, pays the most, and the 400 lb guy, who smokes and has made poor health choices their entire life, and is constantly taxing the system, gets it for free??? Am I the only one viewing it from this standpoint? Because for me, that IS the situation, and it pisses me off.

[becca]

They're starting to deny treatment in Canada to certain people it's fashionable to blame for their decisions. I expect the U.S. will follow. I don't know, people living in poor areas often have little access to affordable quality food. I was very anti-smoking growing up, but I had all but one family member (a grandmother) smoking, including my only (older) brother... by high school all my friends but me smoked. Eventually I found if i smoked I got a lot less sick from the second-hand smoke. Have been quit for over a decade now but should the time I did smoke count against me, or the second-hand smoke I often cannot avoid?

Obamacare/affordable care... it seems the thing most object to is having something being mandatory. It's mandatory in Canada but you have only one source for it (though there are extended plans that are private). Over time though procedures once covered have been 'de-listed' from the program everyone has to be in, although a few things have also been added. You are now more like we were in the '50s-'60s where you had to have it but could buy from a number of companies. It's the same with auto insurance here now; one government run company... but you are not getting that so I think it's a bit extreme to say it is government run health-care. Medicare and Medicaid are government run health care, and whatever the VA offers. Affordable care is just making it mandatory or you pay a penalty, and with more people in the pool costs come down for many. If you had no insurance and didn't want it (trusted in luck to stay healthy) then you can complain I suppose. A step toward socialism (never mind communism) though, I think is not the case.

It's also baffling, especially to outsiders perhaps, how Romney could be for the same thing as a republican in Massachusetts, and be extremely against it nationally.

[Jondalar]

Again, on the smoking, I think that's fair. I feel the same about obesity(barring a medical condition CAUSING the obesity). If you smoke, you should pay more. If you choose to weigh 400 lbs, you should pay more. And conversely, if you're healthy, with no high risk issues, you should pay less.

Okay, so the healthy guy, who makes a good living, pays the most, and the 400 lb guy, who smokes and has made poor health choices their entire life, and is constantly taxing the system, gets it for free??? Am I the only one viewing it from this standpoint? Because for me, that IS the situation, and it pisses me off.

Well, what people who are single with no kids? Why should we pay for other people's kids?

[HomerMcvie]

Well, what people who are single with no kids? Why should we pay for other people's kids?

Agreed! No more school tax for childless people, too!:thumbsup:

[Macfanforever]

Again, on the smoking, I think that's fair. I feel the same about obesity(barring a medical condition CAUSING the obesity). If you smoke, you should pay more. If you choose to weigh 400 lbs, you should pay more. And conversely, if you're healthy, with no high risk issues, you should pay less.

Okay, so the healthy guy, who makes a good living, pays the most, and the 400 lb guy, who smokes and has made poor health choices their entire life, and is constantly taxing the system, gets it for free??? Am I the only one viewing it from this standpoint? Because for me, that IS the situation, and it pisses me off.


Yes I agree.Smokers should pay more.I will fall into the obesity dept if I quit walking and keep snacking on junk food in front of this computer.I got to keep walking and eat some carrots or some cucumbers instead of a bag potato chip.

They're starting to deny treatment in Canada to certain people it's fashionable to blame for their decisions. I expect the U.S. will follow. I don't know, people living in poor areas often have little access to affordable quality food. I was very anti-smoking growing up, but I had all but one family member (a grandmother) smoking, including my only (older) brother... by high school all my friends but me smoked. Eventually I found if i smoked I got a lot less sick from the second-hand smoke. Have been quit for over a decade now but should the time I did smoke count against me, or the second-hand smoke I often cannot avoid?

Obamacare/affordable care... it seems the thing most object to is having something being mandatory. It's mandatory in Canada but you have only one source for it (though there are extended plans that are private). Over time though procedures once covered have been 'de-listed' from the program everyone has to be in, although a few things have also been added. You are now more like we were in the '50s-'60s where you had to have it but could buy from a number of companies. It's the same with auto insurance here now; one government run company... but you are not getting that so I think it's a bit extreme to say it is government run health-care. Medicare and Medicaid are government run health care, and whatever the VA offers. Affordable care is just making it mandatory or you pay a penalty, and with more people in the pool costs come down for many. If you had no insurance and didn't want it (trusted in luck to stay healthy) then you can complain I suppose. A step toward socialism (never mind communism) though, I think is not the case.

It's also baffling, especially to outsiders perhaps, how Romney could be for the same thing as a republican in Massachusetts, and be extremely against it nationally.

Yes I agree on the costs if more are in the pool.

Well, what people who are single with no kids? Why should we pay for other people's kids?

Agreed! No more school tax for childless people, too!:thumbsup:

I agree with both of you.Thats been said for a long time.
But they will come back and say .Who's been paying for the schooling for us when we were going.