Stevies Phone Lecture to Lindsey

[michelej1]

http://www.contactmusic.com/story/stevie-nicks-lectured-lindsey-buckingham-in-candid-phone-call_3863333


Fleetwood Mac - Stevie Nicks Lectured Lindsey Buckingham In Candid Phone Call

by WENN | 12 September 2013 Contact Music


Fleetwood Mac star Stevie Nicks rebuilt bridges with her former lover and bandmate Lindsey Buckingham by spending 90 minutes lecturing him about their 35-year friendship.

The pair lived together for five years before joining the band in 1975 but their romance ended a few years later and Nicks has been bottling up her feelings about Buckingham ever since.

The Don't Stop hitmakers announced last year (12) they were reuniting for a tour, and Nicks poured her heart out to Buckingham in a mammoth phone call in a desperate bid to clear the air ahead of the comeback.

She tells U.K. Tv show Loose Women, "We are getting along probably better than we ever have... Because about a year and a half ago I had a talk with Lindsey. I had the 'everything I wanted to say to you for 35 years' talk. I started in 1968 and I worked up... I started with (recalling how) he cut my fingernail off once because he decided I should practice guitar more. That was not a good move on his part. And I went from there all the way up until now.

"I said, you know, 'Do you remember how funny and sweet we were? Do you remember how cute we were? Do you remember how when we walked in the room we were a power couple... Do you know how long it's been since we have not been that power couple? If we are going to do this again, we've got to go back to the way we were.'

"He was very quiet. It was a solid hour and a half where I never stopped talking... It's much better now since the talk. Now we walk onstage and we are holding hands."

[jbrownsjr]

LOL!!! I adore this woman more everyday..

[CADreaming]

:lol::lol::lol:

I love her. I just freaking love her.

[elle]

cute. how many of these big air-clearing talks did they have in the last year and a half? seems that a new one is described as "the one" in every interview.

looking forward to hearing from people who have access to the interview whether the words in this article reflect what she actually said. according to this article, SN basically said she was the one with the issues that she couldn't get over with enough to have a normal working relationship. and now when she spilled everything out to LB that she kept bottled in for 40 years, she feels like she cleared the air and got rid of her baggage, and can nicely work with him again.

[jbrownsjr]

:lol::lol::lol:

I love her. I just freaking love her.

I was doing her voice in my head.. and picturing him silent on the phone...

[michelej1]

cute. how many of these big air-clearing talks did they have in the last year and a half? seems that a new one is described as "the one" in every interview.

looking forward to hearing from people who have access to the interview whether the words in this article reflect what she actually said. according to this article, SN basically said she was the one with the issues that she couldn't get over with enough to have a normal working relationship. and now when she spilled everything out to LB that she kept bottled in for 40 years, she feels like she cleared the air and got rid of her baggage, and can nicely work with him again.

I saw the interview. Stevie didn't say that she was the one with the issues. She just said she they shouldn't throw everything away "because we couldn't forgive each other." So, she didn't say which of them had the issues.

They had the talk. He was silent. Everything was better after that. They've been doing the WY intro on stage and she asked him if it was boring him and he said, "I think it's charming." She said, "Who are you? Do I know you?"

[jbrownsjr]

Since Tusk, they've been getting along better, and it's the best music they've ever done. :lol:

[Deeshere]

First I have to say WTF??

I had a talk with Lindsey. I had the 'everything I wanted to say to you for 35 years' talk. I started in 1968 and I worked up... I started with (recalling how) he cut my fingernail off once because he decided I should practice guitar more. That was not a good move on his part. And I went from there all the way up until now.

I gotta see the video, because if she said that and it's true (as much as I love Lindsey) that's a pretty messed up thing for him to do.

[CADreaming]

cute. how many of these big air-clearing talks did they have in the last year and a half? seems that a new one is described as "the one" in every interview.

looking forward to hearing from people who have access to the interview whether the words in this article reflect what she actually said. according to this article, SN basically said she was the one with the issues that she couldn't get over with enough to have a normal working relationship. and now when she spilled everything out to LB that she kept bottled in for 40 years, she feels like she cleared the air and got rid of her baggage, and can nicely work with him again.

I wouldn't take it too seriously, Elle. But, didn't she say SHE had apologized in the Australian piece that aired recently?

I was doing her voice in my head.. and picturing him silent on the phone...

When she's talking non stop for an hour and a half, he doesn't have much choice. :thumbsup:

Since Tusk, they've been getting along better, and it's the best music they've ever done. :lol:

Right! And, they've been walking out hand in hand since The Dance.

[elle]

I saw the interview. Stevie didn't say that she was the one with the issues. She just said she they shouldn't throw everything away "because we couldn't forgive each other." So, she didn't say which of them had the issues.

They had the talk. He was silent. Everything was better after that. They've been doing the WY intro on stage and she asked him if it was boring him and he said, "I think it's charming." She said, "Who are you? Do I know you?"

just read your excerpts, thanks!

yes, every guy i know loves to be lectured for 90 minutes. :)

[elle]

Since Tusk, they've been getting along better, and it's the best music they've ever done. :lol:

:lol: :xoxo:

[elle]

But, didn't she say SHE had apologized in the Australian piece that aired recently?

oh, for her 90-minute lecture? ;)

[michelej1]

just read your excerpts, thanks!

yes, every guy i know loves to be lectured for 90 minutes. :)

The curious thing is with all that talk about as long as they've been together they can't throw it out the window, you'd think that she was the one who convinced him to do the current tour. Actually, the tour is something that all of them planned to do long before "the talk" in 2011. The question is WHEN was it going to take place and would there be an album to accompany it.

Everything in the article above is actually what she said in the interview. Those quotes are accurate. The closed captioning is not accurate. But it was posted underneath my video, so I just cut and pasted it.

Michele

[WildHearted]

First I have to say WTF??

I had a talk with Lindsey. I had the 'everything I wanted to say to you for 35 years' talk. I started in 1968 and I worked up... I started with (recalling how) he cut my fingernail off once because he decided I should practice guitar more. That was not a good move on his part. And I went from there all the way up until now.

I gotta see the video, because if she said that and it's true (as much as I love Lindsey) that's a pretty messed up thing for him to do.


I really can't see Lindsey pinning her down and cutting her fingernails. However, he might have said... If you want me to teach you guitar, you have to cut your fingernails off (which is not out of the ordinary. Piano teachers will demand the same thing).

[jbrownsjr]

I wouldn't take it too seriously, Elle. But, didn't she say SHE had apologized in the Australian piece that aired recently?



When she's talking non stop for an hour and a half, he doesn't have much choice. :thumbsup:



Right! And, they've been walking out hand in hand since The Dance.

Here's what really happened...

Stevie: In 1968 you cut my.........
Lindsey: puts down phone as Kristen shows him the cost of tuition for the kids...
One hour and a half later...........
Stevie: ......... and that's why I think we should do this thing the old way...
Lindsey (back at phone): Absolutely Stevie.. What do you say we put some of your vocals on the EP.. ok.. see you in a week!!!

[CADreaming]

oh, for her 90-minute lecture? ;)

Um, no - for indiscretions? I have no idea, she didn't specify.

But, these "talks" aren't that uncommon:

"But we spend hours talking -- we're like a bunch of girls sometimes. We'll be putting a guitar part on, and all of a sudden we'll be talking about something that happened on the Tusk tour, and two hours later we're still talking about it." - SN 2002

[michelej1]

just read your excerpts, thanks!

yes, every guy i know loves to be lectured for 90 minutes. :)

Well, if it took place on the phone, Lindsey could have been doing anything without her realizing he wasn't on the line.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

I really can't see Lindsey pinning her down and cutting her fingernails. However, he might have said... If you want me to teach you guitar, you have to cut your fingernails off (which is not out of the ordinary. Piano teachers will demand the same thing). I

My piano teacher made me cut them if she could hear the nails hit the keys.. :lol:

[michelej1]

Here's what really happened...

Stevie: In 1968 you cut my.........
Lindsey: puts down phone as Kristen shows him the cost of tuition for the kids...
One hour and a half later...........
Stevie: ......... and that's why I think we should do this thing the old way...
Lindsey (back at phone): Absolutely Stevie.. What do you say we put some of your vocals on the EP.. ok.. see you in a week!!!

:laugh: I posted before seeing this post from you. That's it exactly, though. You nailed it.

Michele

[michelej1]

Ok, nodmod gave us the Youtube link to the video. It's in the Loose Women thread now.

[michelej1]

I really can't see Lindsey pinning her down and cutting her fingernails. However, he might have said... If you want me to teach you guitar, you have to cut your fingernails off (which is not out of the ordinary. Piano teachers will demand the same thing).

Yes, we'd have to have her elaborate. She didn't want her fingernail cut, obviously. But the vision of him grabbing her and doing it while she protested is not supported by her comment, as it is.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Here's what really happened...

Stevie: In 1968 you cut my.........
Lindsey: puts down phone as Kristen shows him the cost of tuition for the kids...
One hour and a half later...........
Stevie: ......... and that's why I think we should do this thing the old way...
Lindsey (back at phone): Absolutely Stevie.. What do you say we put some of your vocals on the EP.. ok.. see you in a week!!!

Lol! So it's like when Ross "read" the 18 page letter from Rachel - front & back. :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

Lol! So it's like when Ross "read" the 18 page letter from Rachel - front & back. :lol:

yes!!! he was probably like this afterwards.. .. :shocked:

[elle]

Here's what really happened...

Stevie: In 1968 you cut my.........
Lindsey: puts down phone as Kristen shows him the cost of tuition for the kids...
One hour and a half later...........
Stevie: ......... and that's why I think we should do this thing the old way...
Lindsey (back at phone): Absolutely Stevie.. What do you say we put some of your vocals on the EP.. ok.. see you in a week!!!

lol. had exact same thoughts, but didn't necessarily want to write them down (feeling a bit bad for her). 1.5 phone lecture with the silence on the other end. uhm, yes. :thumbsup:

[michelej1]

Also, note she covers the Keith communication with Mick in this interview, which we had just been discussing last night.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Also, note she covers the Keith communication with Mick in this interview, which we had just been discussing last night.

Michele

I have to say.. Stevie, Mick, Christine, and Lindsey have been a lot of fun the last few weeks..

Imagine if Stevie tried to lecture Christine for an hour and a half..

Stevie: Christine, when you wrote World Turning with Lindsey, well I was just....
Christine: click... dial tone...

[elle]

Also, note she covers the Keith communication with Mick in this interview, which we had just been discussing last night.

Michele

see, she must be reading the ledge.

and now that we outed Lindsey not listening, there will be trouble again. so they will need yet another good talk.

[michelej1]

Given the location of the interview, I am surprised the hosts didn't ask her about Christine making an appearance at the IYD premiere or during the London shows.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

I started with (recalling how) he cut my fingernail off once because he decided I should practice guitar more. That was not a good move on his part.
Should've taken lessons from Peter Green.

[jbrownsjr]

Given the location of the interview, I am surprised the hosts didn't ask her about Christine making an appearance at the IYD premiere or during the London shows.

Michele

Same here. I am starting to doubt the cameo show because they can't keep anything secret... or... they are being hush hush about it. Perhaps in case she changes her mind.

[michelej1]

But Mick talked about it all through the tour and Christine mentioned it in the upcoming radio show, so I think they've been anything but silent.

Michele

[seekerj]

Yes, we'd have to have her elaborate. She didn't want her fingernail cut, obviously. But the vision of him grabbing her and doing it while she protested is not supported by her comment, as it is.

Michele

Right! He could have done it while she was asleep, or there are many other possibilities other than "pinning her down".

The leaps that happen here! I can't even call them "interpretations", because they are way beyond that.

[CADreaming]

The leaps that happen here! I can't even call them "interpretations", because they are way beyond that.

And, how she never said the "talk" was a phone conversation.

[gldstwmn]

I was doing her voice in my head.. and picturing him silent on the phone...

He's learned so much living with that house full of women. Bless him.

[CADreaming]

Lindsey during talks:

http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/bn/images/SnLSYWTB04.jpg

Just get comfortable, this is probably gonna take awhile...

[michelej1]

And, how she never said the "talk" was a phone conversation.

That's not a leap, exactly. The headlines have been characterizing it as a telephone conversation. If readers thought so because of what they read, it's not jumping to conclusions.

Michele

[elle]

That's not a leap, exactly. The headlines have been characterizing it as a telephone conversation. If readers thought so because of what they read, it's not jumping to conclusions.

Michele

wait, so there was no phone call even though the article is titled "Fleetwood Mac - Stevie Nicks Lectured Lindsey Buckingham In Candid Phone Call"?

[CADreaming]

That's not a leap, exactly. The headlines have been characterizing it as a telephone conversation. If readers thought so because of what they read, it's not jumping to conclusions.

Michele

wait, so there was no phone call even though the article is titled "Fleetwood Mac - Stevie Nicks Lectured Lindsey Buckingham In Candid Phone Call"?

Excuse me... :rolleyes:

I was going by what was said in the interview, I didn't read the headline...not that a headline has never been wrong before either...

[elle]

Excuse me... :rolleyes:

I was going by what was said in the interview, I didn't read the headline...not that a headline has never been wrong before either...

so was there a phone call or not? or are you guys trying to make me listen to that interview? :rolleyes:

[CADreaming]

so was there a phone call or not? or are you guys trying to make me listen to that interview? :rolleyes:

Heck if I know, Stevie never said "phone call" and the ladies never said "phone"... she said "talk". I'm thinking that's something she would want to do in person - just to make sure he was listening you know - but maybe that's just me. :confused:

[Deeshere]

I really can't see Lindsey pinning her down and cutting her fingernails. However, he might have said... If you want me to teach you guitar, you have to cut your fingernails off (which is not out of the ordinary. Piano teachers will demand the same thing).


No, I don't think Lindsey held her down and cut her nail off and yes I know that a lot of the time when you are playing an instrument you have to keep your nails short. What I did not like was she said HE DECIDED she should practice the guitar more and then again she said HE clipped her nail off. Which means not only did she not want her nails clipped, but she also didn't want to practice more than she was. I know Stevie's said before that she never thought she needed to become a great musician, because that was not what she wanted to do. She wanted to write songs and to sing.

Now this is only one side of the story and I would love to hear Lindsey side because it could be a totally different memory. I just could not believe that she said it and then also could not believe Lindsey did it.

[michelej1]

Excuse me... :rolleyes:

I was going by what was said in the interview, I didn't read the headline...not that a headline has never been wrong before either...

Yes, a headline has been wrong and this one may be wrong too. But I was making a distinction between people just making things up based on Stevie's vague and often overblown Ayatolla Khomeini comments vs. people believing a characterization of what they read in a headline without further thought.

One is a far less subjective mistake than the other.


Michele

[michelej1]

so was there a phone call or not? or are you guys trying to make me listen to that interview? :rolleyes:

Elle, just go and watch that interview. How can we have an engaging discussion about it if you don't?

Michele

[LB Freakazoid]

I'm kinda thinking that after SN's mother passed, she has mentioned a few times that you need to say- what you need to say to someone before it's to late. So she finally mustered up the courage to finally say to LB everything that she has held in. This is/was one her most important relationships personal and creative she has had... I would suspect after the lesson the passing of her Mom taught her, SN would not let that sail past her again.

[elle]

I'm kinda thinking that after SN's mother passed, she has mentioned a few times that you need to say- what you need to say to someone before it's to late. So she finally mustered up the courage to finally say to LB everything that she has held in. This is/was one her most important relationships personal and creative she has had... I would suspect after the lesson the passing of her Mom taught her, SN would not let that sail past her again.

i agree about her mother's passing making her rethink things that may be important.

but this [phone?] lecture was supposedly a year before that.

[WatchChain]

Here's what really happened...

Stevie: In 1968 you cut my.........
Lindsey: puts down phone as Kristen shows him the cost of tuition for the kids...
One hour and a half later...........
Stevie: ......... and that's why I think we should do this thing the old way...
Lindsey (back at phone): Absolutely Stevie.. What do you say we put some of your vocals on the EP.. ok.. see you in a week!!!

LOL.....This is HILARIOUS !!! And probably very close to what happened. There is NO ONE who loves to TALK more than Stevie Nicks. Moreover, Stevie LOVES talking about STEVIE.

I love you, girl.

STEVIE: "OK, that's enough talk about ME. So, what do YOU think of me?"

[michelej1]

but this [phone?] lecture was supposedly a year before that.

Well, she had another talk with him after her mother passed. And they also aired all of their differences, and she told him why she was unhappy in 1977, and they put the past behind them then too.

Michele

[applebucked]

That was a huge step for them, airing out their differences.

[Deeshere]

i agree about her mother's passing making her rethink things that may be important.

but this [phone?] lecture was supposedly a year before that.

Actually elle, Stevie's mom died December (I think 28) 2010, and it sounds like this talk took place around March or April, 2011

[MikeInNV]

Actually elle, Stevie's mom died December (I think 28) 2010, and it sounds like this talk took place around March or April, 2011

No, she died in December 2011.

[michelej1]

So, the thing her mother always used to tell her about it not being so hard to say "I'm sorry," probably was the catalyst for a conversation too. The only question is, if it was a separate conversation from the one discussed here or a subsequent one.

Michele

[Deeshere]

No, she died in December 2011.

Oh, your right. I went back and rechecked the dates. Sorry Elle I should have looked before I posted.

Well now this doesn't make since to me anymore.:confused::confused:

The only think I can think of is that they have both said they started talking again while recording "Soldiers Angel" in 2010, and Lindsey did say he spent quite a bit of time with Stevie towards the end of her making that CD, so maybe this came out of that.

[LB Freakazoid]

In that interview today - yesterday - whatever - didn't she say that she had the 'talk' right before this tour? So that woulda been after her Mom passing.... Actual dates are not her strong point - it seems that events are her marking stones in the timeline regardless of when... "When I remember someone, I remember their dreams"

[SteveMacD]

Yeah, every guy wants to spend 90 minutes talking to his ex about why she wanted to stop f**king him, and then have to spend six months holding her hand. What could possibly make the tour more enjoyable for him?

[Macfanforever]

Wow.I've been through those 90 minute to 2 hour lectures from my sisters and friends.


I was silent on the other end like Lindsey was.

[nicole21290]

Yeah, every guy wants to spend 90 minutes talking to his ex about why she wanted to stop f**king him, and then have to spend six months holding her hand. What could possibly make the tour more enjoyable for him?

"Have to?" Yeah, he really looks like he's been suffering her presence recently; certainly not enjoying it at all... Poor old Lindsey...

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/th_174fc6859869c924485e3f6e9335b653_zps51a771b5.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/?action=view&current=174fc6859869c924485e3f6e9335b653_zps51a771b5.jpg)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/th_9fdd7a89b6e18fc0b20231237fc16ded_zps7ebe7f78.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/?action=view&current=9fdd7a89b6e18fc0b20231237fc16ded_zps7ebe7f78.jpg)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/th_bc9631ea8d65929ff6f00bb452bdfffd_zps7447dd13.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/?action=view&current=bc9631ea8d65929ff6f00bb452bdfffd_zps7447dd13.jpg)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/th_54317e0f5d3fba0f2f09ce18aa56b1d5_zps87d8021b.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/?action=view&current=54317e0f5d3fba0f2f09ce18aa56b1d5_zps87d8021b.jpg)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/th_6388f76ed2c338e69370742cfd1a6990_zps44f0d66a.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/?action=view&current=6388f76ed2c338e69370742cfd1a6990_zps44f0d66a.jpg)

[lbfan]

Yeah, every guy wants to spend 90 minutes talking to his ex about why she wanted to stop f**king him, and then have to spend six months holding her hand. What could possibly make the tour more enjoyable for him?

The guys obviously wanted to tour to make $. Since LB has no sexual interest in SN now, he will obviously endure the 90 minute lecture to gain her consent to tour. That is not to imply there is not a deep friendship and love between SN and LB, but the two most common reasons for people's actions are sex and money. In this case it was money.

[CADreaming]

The guys obviously wanted to tour to make $. Since LB has no sexual interest in SN now, he will obviously endure the 90 minute lecture to gain her consent to tour. That is not to imply there is not a deep friendship and love between SN and LB, but the two most common reasons for people's actions are sex and money. In this case it was money.

Stevie refuted that line of thought.

[nicole21290]

Stevie refuted that line of thought.

The money line of thought, I assume? Well, apparently that only leaves us one explanation then. Guess that that's sorted. Have fun, kids! :D

[CADreaming]

The money line of thought, I assume? Well, apparently that only leaves us one explanation then. Guess that's that sorted. Have fun, kids! :D

Ha!
Yes, the money line.

[lbfan]

Stevie refuted that line of thought.

I did not watch the interview and only quickly read though the transcript. No doubt she refuted that line of reasoning. Still doesn't change my opinion of why people do certain things in life. A psychologist friend once told me that power is the third reason for things (which could sometimes coincide with monetary wealth). I have encountered people that are truly altruistic in life and everything they do, but those people are few and far between.

To be brutally opinionated, Fleetwood Mac as a money-making venture was able to survive Christine's departure. If Stevie did not tour with the "guys" the venues would only be 50% full, instead of 90+% (on average) they are currently enjoying. They need SN to make money and touring is the only way to generate significant revenue in today's music business. In my opinion, Mick is a manipulative person, LB less so and John even less so. SN is an aging diva that craves attention and some people will take advantage of that. The opinions above are my own and are not intended to offend any person or group of people on this board.

[vivfox]

Yeah, every guy wants to spend 90 minutes talking to his ex about why she wanted to stop f**king him, and then have to spend six months holding her hand. What could possibly make the tour more enjoyable for him?


Stevie plays Robert Pollard cassette tapes to Lindsey to keep him calm before every show.

[vivfox]

The guys obviously wanted to tour to make $. Since LB has no sexual interest in SN now, he will obviously endure the 90 minute lecture to gain her consent to tour. the two most common reasons for people's actions are sex and money In this case it was money.


I agree 100%:thumbsup:

[CADreaming]

I did not watch the interview and only quickly read though the transcript. No doubt she refuted that line of reasoning. Still doesn't change my opinion of why people do certain things in life. A psychologist friend once told me that power is the third reason for things (which could sometimes coincide with monetary wealth). I have encountered people that are truly altruistic in life and everything they do, but those people are few and far between.

To be brutally opinionated, Fleetwood Mac as a money-making venture was able to survive Christine's departure. If Stevie did not tour with the "guys" the venues would only be 50% full, instead of 90+% (on average) they are currently enjoying. They need SN to make money and touring is the only way to generate significant revenue in today's music business. In my opinion, Mick is a manipulative person, LB less so and John even less so. SN is an aging diva that craves attention and some people will take advantage of that. The opinions above are my own and are not intended to offend any person or group of people on this board.

:lol: Wow!

But, um, anyway - back to the money thing. Since you didn't watch the video I wasn't saying she denied that part of it. Stevie has never denied wanting, needing or enjoying the money. But, she refuted that was the only reason, in regards to their relationship - that being in a good place with each other was more important when they were 90 and dying.

[nicole21290]

:lol: Wow!

But, um, anyway - back to the money thing. Since you didn't watch the video I wasn't saying she denied that part of it. Stevie has never denied wanting, needing or enjoying the money. But, she refuted that was the only reason, in regards to their relationship - that being in a good place with each other was more important when they were 90 and dying.

Has she had some more premonitions? 90 again for the age of death/dying? Isn't that meant to be the time when one of them dies and the other is left sitting on the bed alone? :D

[CADreaming]

Has she had some more premonitions? 90 again for the age of death/dying? Isn't that meant to be the time when one of them dies and the other is left sitting on the bed alone? :D

Yeah, yeah - counting the money.... :thumbsup:

[bombaysaffires]

Here's what really happened...

Stevie: In 1968 you cut my.........
Lindsey: puts down phone as Kristen shows him the cost of tuition for the kids...
One hour and a half later...........
Stevie: ......... and that's why I think we should do this thing the old way...
Lindsey (back at phone): Absolutely Stevie.. What do you say we put some of your vocals on the EP.. ok.. see you in a week!!!

LOVE this!!

[Macfanforever]

Heres a cute video which could be them at times.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vEvvRfuVk30?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bombaysaffires]

I really can't see Lindsey pinning her down and cutting her fingernails.

Not to start a big thing, but I totally can. I think there was a certain physicality to Lindsey's controlling in those days. I think it's one of the dirty secrets of this band. I absolutely love him, but he had some issues in the past, which he in his own elliptical, verbose style has touched on from time to time in recent years. Lotta shrinkage there. (Not that Stevie is a saint, I think she totally pushes his buttons).

[CADreaming]

Heres a cute video which could be them at times.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vEvvRfuVk30?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Skip! :lol:

Not to start a big thing, but I totally can. I think there was a certain physicality to Lindsey's controlling in those days. I think it's one of the dirty secrets of this band. I absolutely love him, but he had some issues in the past, which he in his own elliptical, verbose style has touched on from time to time in recent years. Lotta shrinkage there. (Not that Stevie is a saint, I think she totally pushes his buttons).

My opinion - the nail clipping incident happened early - she did mention it right after she said she started at 1968. He wasn't being controlling. It was just them as kids messing around in the early days and she let him do it. Otherwise, I think we would have heard about it way before now. Seriously, have you ever seen someone kicking and screaming while someone pinned them down and clipped their fingernails??

[wheart]

Skip! :lol:



My opinion - the nail clipping incident happened early - she did mention it right after she said she started at 1968. He wasn't being controlling. It was just them as kids messing around in the early days and she let him do it. Otherwise, I think we would have heard about it way before now. Seriously, have you ever seen someone kicking and screaming while someone pinned them down and clipped their fingernails??

Damn, cats are mean! I love it. I can't really comment on "the lecture" because I have no idea what the motivations were behind it. I am glad it happened because it seems (at least on THIS tour) to have helped the stage dynamic between SN and LB. For that I'm grateful. I really do hope Stevie gave Lindsey an opportunity to speak and/or respond to her 1.5 hour long rant but I have a feeling she probably didn't. :]

[bombaysaffires]

Skip! :lol:



My opinion - the nail clipping incident happened early - she did mention it right after she said she started at 1968. He wasn't being controlling. It was just them as kids messing around in the early days and she let him do it. Otherwise, I think we would have heard about it way before now. Seriously, have you ever seen someone kicking and screaming while someone pinned them down and clipped their fingernails??

I respect your opinion.

[applebucked]

I imagine them messing around and having a little laugh about it. :lol:

[elle]

I did not watch the interview and only quickly read though the transcript. No doubt she refuted that line of reasoning. Still doesn't change my opinion of why people do certain things in life. A psychologist friend once told me that power is the third reason for things (which could sometimes coincide with monetary wealth).

i'm curious what's the actual science behind this (for example, money has not been around since the beginning of humanity...), but it seems pretty logical. i have no doubt about sex, and agree with power too, definitely.

giving someone a 90-min lecture on all they did wrong to you over the lifetime can be about several things -
a) getting it all out so you feel better and can start fresh, and
b) gaining the upper hand in the relationship (i.e. power).
neither will make the person who listens to that lecture feel better, and if they decide to endure it, they have an ulterior motif (as you mentioned, e.g., want to tour to make tons of money, or maybe want to record to feel relevant).
both a) and b) will make the person giving the lecture feel better.

[CADreaming]

I imagine them messing around and having a little laugh about it. :lol:

If it makes it into the WY intro, I will roll...:thumbsup:

[applebucked]

If it makes it into the WY intro, I will roll...:thumbsup:
Same, man. Same. :laugh:

[michelej1]

Ha!
Yes, the money line.

Skip! :lol:



My opinion - the nail clipping incident happened early - she did mention it right after she said she started at 1968. He wasn't being controlling. It was just them as kids messing around in the early days and she let him do it. Otherwise, I think we would have heard about it way before now. Seriously, have you ever seen someone kicking and screaming while someone pinned them down and clipped their fingernails??

I agree, especially about it probably coming out sooner if it was a physical thing. I think this is another example if her finding the guitar lessons tedious and thinking him a boor as her instructor. Since Stevie talks freely about Lindsey throwing guitars at her and kicking her in her ever-changing New Zealand story, I don't know why anyone thinks that she's keeping secrets about physical abuse in their past. She's very open, in fact. And loves to talk about how she ducked the guitar in a stunning ninja move. She even talked about him throwing a guitar at her in her Mojo interview with Lindsey by her side. So I would hardly conclude that they have taken a vow of silence on this issue.

When she discussed the music lessons she got from him in the past, she said they bored her and she would lose interest. She said when he tried to teach her what a bar was she said "oh you mean that bar down the street." She thought he was too serious about the music and he thought that she was too silly about it. I think she really resented having a fingernail cut just like she resented having to hear about the Beatles over and over again, as part of her lesson. I think she criticized the fingernail cutting as an example of him being a bossy know-it-all, but not abusive.

Michele

[jkmaletic]

see, she must be reading the ledge.

and now that we outed Lindsey not listening, there will be trouble again. so they will need yet another good talk.

Haha! Good one!
And you're probably right.

[CADreaming]

i agree about her mother's passing making her rethink things that may be important.

but this [phone?] lecture was supposedly a year before that.

In the Lauren Laverne radio interview posted today, the "talk" was in person:

"When I was talking to him he was looking at me with that kind of like, 'r-r-really??'...like he really didn't realize it had gone so far off..."

Unless they were Skyping or something....:lol:

[applebucked]

I doubt it was through Skype. :lol:

[CADreaming]

I doubt it was through Skype. :lol:

Hehehe... but it's a funny visual, isn't it? :laugh:

& Btw, if Stevie does read TL (or Karen) ... I hope she's enjoyed the 40th Anniversary of BN thread and will have a "release that brilliant reissue expanded CD edition within the next 6 months" talk with Lindsey (with a live performance of some kind.. ). :thumbsup:

[applebucked]

Hehehe... but it's a funny visual, isn't it? :laugh:
Stevie would be all freaked out figuring out what to do with it. And Lindsey would probably just laugh at her. :lol:

[CADreaming]

Stevie would be all freaked out figuring out what to do with it. And Lindsey would probably just laugh at her. :lol:

I laughed when she said "Lindsey and I aren't computer people."

[applebucked]

I laughed when she said "Lindsey and I aren't computer people."
All I think about this is The Sims. :laugh:

[elle]

The guys obviously wanted to tour to make $. Since LB has no sexual interest in SN now, he will obviously endure the 90 minute lecture to gain her consent to tour. That is not to imply there is not a deep friendship and love between SN and LB, but the two most common reasons for people's actions are sex and money. In this case it was money.

:lol: sacrilege! SnL shippers probably gasped reading this.

[applebucked]

You mean Lindsey isn't sexually interested in Stevie??? Off with your head, the lot of you. :mad:

[nicole21290]

:lol: sacrilege! SnL shippers probably gasped reading this.

Not only did I gasp, Elle, I actually fell to the floor. Frozen. Disbelieving. Shocked. Horrified. My life is practically over and it no longer has any meaning.

"There will always be that attraction and that will always, that is what will keep us 'sssss'. And that's good because when you have that 'sssss' thing, you have it, you know. And you have that eye contact. You have it and so it's magical. And the people see it and when we walk onstage we are still able to pull back that love affair and we can have it, the audience gets to have it, and everybody enjoys it."

[bombaysaffires]

All I think about this is The Sims. :laugh:

The Slowskys.

[Deeshere]

Not to start a big thing, but I totally can. I think there was a certain physicality to Lindsey's controlling in those days. I think it's one of the dirty secrets of this band. I absolutely love him, but he had some issues in the past, which he in his own elliptical, verbose style has touched on from time to time in recent years. Lotta shrinkage there. (Not that Stevie is a saint, I think she totally pushes his buttons).

Your right he has issues (anger, control) that he's somewhat admitted to in the past and Stevie DEFINITELY knows how to push his buttons if she wants to pay him back for something.

Like it's been said before, I don't think Lindsey held Stevie down or harmed her during the nail clipping incident or most likely Stevie would have said something about it.

The fact that he only clipped 1 nail shows that as soon as Stevie realized what he was doing she pulled her hand away. (IMO) Most likely what happened was Lindsey being Lindsey told Stevie she needed to practice the guitar more and asked to see her hand. She obvious had no idea what he was going to do and must have given it to him. Then it would not be hard for lindsey to pull out a finger nail clipper and clip one of her nails off before she realized what he was doing and pulled her hand away. If someone asked to see my hand, I would not expect them to clip my nails off. So I see it more likely that he caught her off guard and that's why he only got 1 nail clipped and not more.

The story is not even that important however I think she use it to illustrate how Lindsey's controlling attitude caused problems between the two of them from the very beginning of their relationship. It appears that her response to his high handed attitude towards her was not to explain to him how she felt, but to challenge him, which is what ultimately caused the Stevie/Lindsey competition that existed until recently.

[Deeshere]

"Have to?" Yeah, he really looks like he's been suffering her presence recently; certainly not enjoying it at all... Poor old Lindsey...



Those are beautiful pictures, you did a great job. Also your right poor Lindsey has looked completely miserable during the 2013 tour. I guess he must really miss his wife :lol: :lol:

[getTusked]

The guys obviously wanted to tour to make $. Since LB has no sexual interest in SN now, he will obviously endure the 90 minute lecture to gain her consent to tour. That is not to imply there is not a deep friendship and love between SN and LB, but the two most common reasons for people's actions are sex and money. In this case it was money.

Ehhh...maybe for some members of the band?

I honestly think one of the big reasons for Lindsey wanting any tour with the Mac is that he genuinely loves playing and being on stage...I mean seriously what the hell else is he going to do if he didn't have music? He can do things with FM that he doesn't necessarily do in his solo career...I think he literally needs both "machines" in his life. He's never been the hesitant one (other than 87)..that's usually Stevie.

As for S and L, whatever the hell they are or what is going on, they always come back to each other in some way and I think they acknowledge now that they are clearly a. meant to sing together forever and b. just meant to be in each other's lives....and that could be in several different forms: as friends, muses, musical partners...whatever it is it is never nothing. I don't really think any of them are hurting for money. No matter what they say, some part of them has to actually WANT to do it...or they wouldn't do it.

But that's just my opinion :lol:

[michelej1]

The fact that he only clipped 1 nail shows that as soon as Stevie realized what he was doing she pulled her hand away. (IMO)

I think the fact that one nail was clipped, probably indicates that was needed for guitar playing. Obviously, piano is different, but this was guitar. Lindsey plays differently than Stevie does -- I don't know if she mostly finger picked back then, but I'm guessing not. But she would not need all of her nails shortened anyway for guitar, although he might. I know players who keep the nails on certain fingers long deliberately. They don't keep the nails one uniform length, depending on what they need to do with the different fingers and how they play.

I don't think the fact that it was one nail shows she had quick reflexes and pulled back before he could inflict any more damage. I would need more details from her to determine what she meant at all.

Michele

[guitarchick82]

I'm just popping in real quick to weigh in on the fingernail clipping incident. I play guitar fingerpicking style and let me tell you, it is pretty much impossible to play guitar in ANY style without at least cutting the fingernails on your left hand (or right hand, if you're a left-handed player). If you don't clip those fingernails short, you'll never be able to press on the strings hard enough to make decent sounding chords. It'll sound all muffled because your finger nails are in the way. It's the same for any stringed instrument where you have to press the strings against a fretboard to produce sound. As for the other hand (the strumming or finger picking hand), you can clip those too if you plan on playing with a pick. But if you're like Lindsey, you'd leave those longer.

Personally, when I watched that interview where Stevie told the fingernail clipping story, my first thought was that she must be dramatizing it because (a.) She's Stevie Nicks and, (b.) Who would clip just one finger nail anyway? Or maybe that's as far as poor Lindsey got before she unleashed on him. ;) I now have an image in my mind of him quietly approaching her while she's sleeping, crouching by the side of the bed and trying to clip her nails before she wakes up! :lol:

[michelej1]

My old boss plays and he keeps the baby finger and the index finger nails long and the other ones are short, which looks really strange, but he says the long index helps him pluck each string individually when he tunes and the long baby fingernail is good to help him make accent sounds.

He said in the past, when people saw his hand they thought he had long nails for a secret cocaine habit.

Michele

[CADreaming]

As for S and L, whatever the hell they are or what is going on, they always come back to each other in some way and I think they acknowledge now that they are clearly a. meant to sing together forever and b. just meant to be in each other's lives....and that could be in several different forms: as friends, muses, musical partners...whatever it is it is never nothing. I don't really think any of them are hurting for money. No matter what they say, some part of them has to actually WANT to do it...or they wouldn't do it.

But that's just my opinion :lol:

I like it. :nod:

[bombaysaffires]

The story is not even that important however I think she use it to illustrate how Lindsey's controlling attitude caused problems between the two of them from the very beginning of their relationship. It appears that her response to his high handed attitude towards her was not to explain to him how she felt, but to challenge him, which is what ultimately caused the Stevie/Lindsey competition that existed until recently.

Nicely said.

[StreetAngel86]

The money line of thought, I assume? Well, apparently that only leaves us one explanation then. Guess that that's sorted. Have fun, kids! :D

worth reading this whole thread for :lol:
def not about the money.
only mick needs $$
stevie didn't have a D&M with Mick now did she

[iamnotafraid]

Is there an expiration date on this Stevie & Lindsey
relationship talk?


When we're down to fingernail stories, I'd say it's time
to let it go.


To argue over new Fleetwood Mac music would be
a joy.

[nicole21290]

Is there an expiration date on this Stevie & Lindsey relationship talk?

Frankly, no. Not for some of us (sorry!) and, certainly, not for them, apparently.

When I see you again, / As I always do
It appears to me that / Destiny rules

I've been with you before / I'll be with you again
I'll come back for more, yeah / The story has a strange ending

When we're down to fingernail stories, I'd say it's time to let it go.

I'm pretty sure they can both pull out some more equally inconsequential stories to amuse us with in between the heavier stuff. Let's move up to the hands and not just focus on the fingernails, eh?

My heart still stops / When I stand before you
And my heart still breaks / When you take my hand
And my heart still cries / When someone speaks your name
And you understand

To argue over new Fleetwood Mac music would be a joy.

Just make sure you discuss the lyrics without reference to Stevie and Lindsey's relationship, okay? Have fun. (leaving out repetitious chorus' etc, naturally)

Maybe I've just been holding out too long
Maybe I couldn't admit that I was wrong
And maybe I've just been lying to myself
And no one else

Slow down, baby
Cross that line
If you want to save me
It takes time

Maybe I've wasted all this precious time
Trying to prove what is and isn't mine
Wondering to myself if you knew
It was all for you

_

I had another dream of you last night
Sailing on a sea of blue
You were grieving for someone else
I was grieving for you

Miss Fantasy
It may be you don't remember me
But I remember you

In between the shadow and the sun
In between the black and blue
From a window I heard your voice
Telling me we were through

And do you still tremble when I fall?
Will you still answer when I call?
Would you still love to linger up against that wall?

Everybody saying shine your light
Everybody knows it’s true
You're the queen of the underground
Never leaving a clue

_

My eyes were consumed
By the silence in the room
Your dreams would not wake
From the words that we break

Hello, hello, sad angel
Have you come to fight the war
The drums, a fire, a calling
My soul marches out the door

We fall to earth together
The crowd calling out for more
Hello, hello, sad angel
Have you come to fight the war

My eyes saw the words
With a prayer and a curse
Your pain had to sleep
With a sword that it keeps

[iamnotafraid]

Frankly, no. Not for some of us (sorry!) and, certainly, not for them, apparently.


I'm pretty sure they can both pull out some more equally inconsequential stories to amuse us with in between the heavier stuff. Let's move up to the hands and not just focus on the fingernails, eh?



You're probably right. Sad but true.

As long as "fingernail" isn't a chapter
in her autobiography, I'll be okay.

[redbird]

There are worse things than listening to someone you used to have a serious relationship with air out their long-contained issues with you. Who cares if it's pleasant or not? It's healthy. Relationships -- working relationships, friendships -- take work, it's not all about how much fun a guy is having with his ex girlfriend. It was a healthy step to take.

OMG no! A guy has to listen to a girl talk (girls and phones and talking lol har har har!) for 90 minutes! Quel horreur!!!!11 :rolleyes:

If she was taking steps to be more honest, then "fun" or not it's a positive step. It doesn't sound like a "Our relationship should consist of me always doing all the talking and you doing all the listening" thing, just that Stevie had 45 years of things she never expressed and finally decided to woman up and express them. She always came off to me as someone who would keep things in and then all of a sudden she'd find herself resentful, so it's better to get it out than continue that pattern any longer.

[elle]

There are worse things than listening to someone you used to have a serious relationship with air out their long-contained issues with you. Who cares if it's pleasant or not? It's healthy. Relationships -- working relationships, friendships -- take work, it's not all about how much fun a guy is having with his ex girlfriend. It was a healthy step to take.

OMG no! A guy has to listen to a girl talk (girls and phones and talking lol har har har!) for 90 minutes! Quel horreur!!!!11 :rolleyes:

If she was taking steps to be more honest, then "fun" or not it's a positive step. It doesn't sound like a "Our relationship should consist of me always doing all the talking and you doing all the listening" thing, just that Stevie had 45 years of things she never expressed and finally decided to woman up and express them. She always came off to me as someone who would keep things in and then all of a sudden she'd find herself resentful, so it's better to get it out than continue that pattern any longer.

i agree that it's healthy, in general.

but put it in the context SN is telling it in. the way she describes it, you'd think LB really didn't wanna tour with the Mac or work with her anymore, but luckily her spilling it all out made him want to go on tour - he finally saw the reason and it was that cleansing for him. ;)

now think back, who did want to work together / tour FM, and who didn't, for several years now? :D

also do you really think Stevie Nicks keeps stuff bottled in? really? maybe that's new development - i only followed the Mac for the last few years, but during that time it seem that woman can never stop talking. (same as Mick, in fact.) somehow, i can't believe that she never said all this stuff before. ;)

[elle]

Maybe I've just been holding out too long
Maybe I couldn't admit that I was wrong
And maybe I've just been lying to myself
And no one else

Slow down, baby
Cross that line
If you want to save me
It takes time

Maybe I've wasted all this precious time
Trying to prove what is and isn't mine
Wondering to myself if you knew
It was all for you

_

I had another dream of you last night
Sailing on a sea of blue
You were grieving for someone else
I was grieving for you

Miss Fantasy
It may be you don't remember me
But I remember you

In between the shadow and the sun
In between the black and blue
From a window I heard your voice
Telling me we were through

And do you still tremble when I fall?
Will you still answer when I call?
Would you still love to linger up against that wall?

Everybody saying shine your light
Everybody knows it’s true
You're the queen of the underground
Never leaving a clue

_

My eyes were consumed
By the silence in the room
Your dreams would not wake
From the words that we break

Hello, hello, sad angel
Have you come to fight the war
The drums, a fire, a calling
My soul marches out the door

We fall to earth together
The crowd calling out for more
Hello, hello, sad angel
Have you come to fight the war

My eyes saw the words
With a prayer and a curse
Your pain had to sleep
With a sword that it keeps

i like it, thank you for pasting these in! :thumbsup:

so?? anybody up "to linger up against that wall"? :)

[redbird]

I watched the Loose Women video where Stevie said the "everything I wanted to say to you for 35 years talk" bit, and the question that prompted it was "Are there things you all have agreed not to talk about any more?", not "What did it take to get Lindsey to agree to a tour?" so I don't really understand your impression that she singlehandedly made LB agree to cooperate with her/the band again. It was, to me, quite obviously in context of how they could manage to interact with each other in a functional way again after all the baggage between them.

And you can be a chatty cathy and still not talk about the things that really matter. She might have said things before but not in a productive and totally forthcoming way. You can say things and be passive aggressive or avoidant or indecisive, you can start bringing up a point and then change your mind about really explaining the extent of your issues. She's always come across to me as someone who'll talk a lot about being a strong woman but also clearly has a peacekeeping, don't-rock-the-boat side, because she brings it up herself, so yeah I can easily believe that she never talked about her issues in as healthy a way before (obviously these things are not black and white and there are degrees of forthcomingness) because she always seemed to me to trying to be convince herself that it's okay to do XYZ when she talks so big about doing XYZ.

[elle]

so yeah I can easily believe that she never talked about her issues in as healthy a way before (obviously these things are not black and white and there are degrees of forthcomingness) because she always seemed to me to trying to be convince herself that it's okay to do XYZ when she talks so big about doing XYZ.

well, apparently she needed to get it out so she can work with him. so, good for her and all of them. whether this specific talk, or her mother's death and facing mortality, or whatever else it was, it all together must have changed her outlook and it's making this tour much happier for everybody. :thumbsup:

[CADreaming]

the way she describes it, you'd think LB really didn't wanna tour with the Mac or work with her anymore, but luckily her spilling it all out made him want to go on tour - he finally saw the reason and it was that cleansing for him. ;)

It's never sounded that way to me, she's never once said LB felt that way or that she thought he felt that way.

now think back, who did want to work together / tour FM, and who didn't, for several years now? :D

One of the few things Stevie Nicks has always been consistent in and believes with pretty much every fiber of her being is that you "never break up your band"... as she says, she ALWAYS comes back to FM - it's not an "if", it's a "when"...

also do you really think Stevie Nicks keeps stuff bottled in? really? maybe that's new development - i only followed the Mac for the last few years, but during that time it seem that woman can never stop talking. (same as Mick, in fact.) somehow, i can't believe that she never said all this stuff before. ;)

Yes, I think she has and does and can keep things in - especially when it comes to Lindsey - because as she pointed out in her Q&A's for IYD last year - you don't want to hurt the feelings of people you love and care about. Also, just because you know how to push someone's buttons, does not mean you go out of your way to do so, especially if you really just don't want to deal with the explosion it's going to create. She is the peacekeeper, the keeper of peace. Being chatty and social is much easier than spilling your guts and confronting issues.

[michelej1]

I don't see her as the Peacekeeper and I doubt that Lindsey does. While I think the Peacekeeper song can be applied to their relationship, I don't think he cast her in the Peackeeper role. I think the Peacekeeper was an outside force called upon to wield its palliative powers on their tumultuous relationship.

Yes, she sees herself as holding things together to get through a tour or an album, like right after they joined FM. She talks about how she did this. Also, it's very clear that she's constantly thinking of what Lindsey's going to say or do about something and she assumes, rightly or wrongly, that what he's going to say or do will be combative. I remember they were doing an interview together for The Dance and she said something like she would have called him before, but he would have just hung up on her and he said, well no. Maybe he would have hung up. Or maybe they would have just talked. I think she does hold back sometimes or does walk away in anger, turn on her platform boot -- like in that old interview she said they would argue and she would go away for the night and think of all the things she could say to him in response and then come back the next day and say them. But I think that the times she holds back are equal or lesser in number to the times when she just fans their tumultuous flame.

I don't think even she really sees herself as the soothing influence in their lives. I believe she thinks she's one of the twisted two in their tornado.

As for the 90 minute talk, I doubt she said anything to him that she hasn't said to him before. Many times. But it felt cathartic to her and that's all that really matters. If it felt like a release and a fresh start and undid some of the damage that I guess still lingered long after the SYW tour had ended, then good.

Michele

[CADreaming]

I don't see her as the Peacekeeper and I doubt that Lindsey does. While I think the Peacekeeper song can be applied to their relationship, I don't think he cast her in the Peackeeper role. I think the Peacekeeper was an outside force called upon to wield its palliative powers on their tumultuous relationship.

Michele

I think she can be the peacekeeper; that doesn't necessarily mean she always keeps the peace. But, it reminds me of something I read recently - LB screamed at a roadie or stagehand on the BN tour and Stevie went over to him and apologized for Lindsey, trying to smooth things over. That's the kind of peace I think she's talking about, not between her and him but between him and other people. Or keeping the peace sometimes is just biting your tongue when you want to say something.

[michelej1]

I think she can be the peacekeeper; that doesn't necessarily mean she always keeps the peace.

She sees herself as everything. But regarding lyrics that may not have been raised in this thread, but may have come up in others, do you think Lindsey called her the Peacekeeper, in the song?

I actually think he's sees himself as the Peacekeeper, by fighting (as the U.S. might call itself a peacekeeper by killing and using violence to end violence ultimately) and he thinks love is the sweet surprise of that fight, if you keep going forward against obstacles and friction, even if you want to quit. In that sense, I think he's the peacekeeper and the protagonist in Shut Us Down, the one saying fight. Don't give up, even if the goal seems elusive and, sometimes, not worthwhile.

Michele

[CADreaming]

But regarding lyrics that may not have been raised in this thread, but may have come up in others, do you think Lindsey called her the Peacekeeper, in the song?

I actually think he's sees himself as the Peacekeeper, by fighting (as the U.S. might call itself a peacekeeper by killing and using violence to end violence ultimately) and he thinks love is the sweet surprise of that fight, if you keep going forward against obstacles and friction, even if you want to quit. In that sense, I think he's the peacekeeper and the protagonist in Shut Us Down, the one saying fight. Don't give up, even if the goal seems elusive and, sometimes, not worthwhile.

Michele

I don't really know (as do none of us), but for the sake of lyric speculation, I think it's possible Lindsey was referring to her in Peacekeeper. I also think its significant she used basically the same phrase in FFG (about LB), when she referred to herself "High priestess...she's the keeper of the peace in this."

I don't see Peacekeeper as a political statement at all, even though they played that up, it was a convenient turn of events that helped to spin it as social relevance, just as he did with Treason.

I think Lindsey is usually the protagonist, but in FFG she was the one who "fought this long and this hard just to make sure you survive"... Unless that's someone else talking...

[elle]

She sees herself as everything. But regarding lyrics that may not have been raised in this thread, but may have come up in others, do you think Lindsey called her the Peacekeeper, in the song?

this is what i always think of first when i hear the song Peacekeeper http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/ . i realized after reading some of the explanations, that LB, as a person who lived most of his life in the US, may have not meant that kind of peacekeeper.

my second thought, after reading some additional explanations from people who said he may have meant this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-118_Peacekeeper - which would go well with the songs lyrics.

[michelej1]

I don't see Peacekeeper as a political statement at all, even though they played that up, it was a convenient turn of events that helped to spin it as social relevance, just as he did with Treason.



I don't see it as convenient as an alibi. I think Lindsey is deliberately using war references as analogies in his lyrics. They aren't accidental or coincidental, but conscience comparisons.

But no, I don't think he called her a peacekeeper. I think he sees himself as the peacekeeper and the troublemaker and that the two roles may seem contradictory on the surface, but dropping a missile leads to peace and I think he sees himself -- or did at the time -- as the one soldiering on against the current -- even though he didn't have one allie in that band, according to what he said in his car.

No doubt Stevie might think of herself as some kind of peacekeeper, but I don't think he ever saw her as someone who wasn't causing conflict. In fact, even when she bites her tongue instead of speaking up, I think he sees that as a type of warmongering.

I mean, I think of the first years when she said that in 1975 everyone was fighting and threatening to leave the band and she wasn't saying anything. So, she saw herself as the least troublesome of the five, but she also says that she couldn't be Lindsey's "old lady." She couldn't take his side in the band debates. Because he wanted to cry on her shoulder about everyone hassling him to get the guitar part right and she couldn't comfort him because as a band member SHE wanted him to get the guitar part right too.
And I can see that really getting to him. She saw herself as Swiss, but in her silence, in not taking his side against the others, I think he saw her as the enemy. And maybe what he missed is not their love life together, but that since of unity they had. Like Javier said that they would always take each other's side against the others in Fritz and they didn't do that in FM.

They formed new alliances.

Michele

[redbird]

Regardless of if Lindsey saw her as the peacekeeper that inspired his song, she apparently had things she wanted to get off her chest and she did and it seemed to have helped at least her, which helps the big picture. People are multifaceted, and usually have internally conflicting desires, sometimes you bite your tongue only to find later on that biting your tongue before makes you all the more angry later on and things come out in all the wrong, unproductive ways. Personally that's all I was trying to say. Stevie most certainly did not refrain from stirring up her share of tensions but that doesn't mean her personality make-up doesn't include don't-rock-the-boat tendencies. FWIW many women have that problem that they're socialized not to upset the apple cart, only to find that it's too repressive for them and they end up acting out against it, sometimes productively and sometimes not.

[CADreaming]

I don't see it as convenient as an alibi. I think Lindsey is deliberately using war references as analogies in his lyrics. They aren't accidental or coincidental, but conscience comparisons.

I didn't mean it as he thought he needed an alibi. He might think that. Lol. But, I agree it could also be intentional analogies.

But no, I don't think he called her a peacekeeper. I think he sees himself as the peacekeeper and the troublemaker and that the two roles may seem contradictory on the surface, but dropping a missile leads to peace and I think he sees himself -- or did at the time -- as the one soldiering on against the current -- even though he didn't have one allie in that band, according to what he said in his car.

No doubt Stevie might think of herself as some kind of peacekeeper, but I don't think he ever saw her as someone who wasn't causing conflict. In fact, even when she bites her tongue instead of speaking up, I think he sees that as a type of warmongering.

I mean, I think of the first years when she said that in 1975 everyone was fighting and threatening to leave the band and she wasn't saying anything. So, she saw herself as the least troublesome of the five, but she also says that she couldn't be Lindsey's "old lady." She couldn't take his side in the band debates. Because he wanted to cry on her shoulder about everyone hassling him to get the guitar part right and she couldn't comfort him because as a band member SHE wanted him to get the guitar part right too.
And I can see that really getting to him. She saw herself as Swiss, but in her silence, in not taking his side against the others, I think he saw her as the enemy. And maybe what he missed is not their love life together, but that since of unity they had. Like Javier said that they would always take each other's side against the others in Fritz and they didn't do that in FM.

They formed new alliances.

Michele

Yeah, they did. Alliances do change though. Treaties are signed. Peace talks are held.

Remember when the guitars were out of tune on the SYW tour? Stevie was trying to help lighten the moment because you know LB was really ticked, even though to his credit he did the push ups & sit ups. There's also a great photo of him glaring, arms crossed while Stevie tries to smooth his feathers.

I call that peace keeping.

I don't know, I just would never classify him that way. He always seems to be the one willing to stir something up in fact, not afraid to steamroll in order to accomplish the vision. "You're not like other people, you do what you want to."

[michelej1]

Regardless of if Lindsey saw her as the peacekeeper that inspired his song,

Yes, I wasn't addressing your posts in asking about Peacekeeper, the song, because Lindsey's perspective then and now and Stevie's comments regarding the 90 minute phone conversation are two different animals.

I don't even know if the song itself (as opposed to the general concept of peaceful relations) was referenced in this thread, but it was discussed somewhere and I was prompted to explore further here.

Michele

[michelej1]

I call that peace keeping.

I don't know, I just would never classify him that way. He always seems to be the one willing to stir something up in fact, not afraid to steamroll in order to accomplish the vision. "You're not like other people, you do what you want to."

Yes, I wasn't talking about a kumbaya kind of peace and I don't think the song is talking about that kind of peace either, which is why it uses the war metaphor. I think it envisions a peace through struggle and fight and force or forcefulness. I mean an ironic version of peace.

As far as whether she calms any feathers, I don't think so. I see Mick doing that more. But yes, she thinks she does, definitely. I mean even 20 years ago she was talking about how she fought so hard to keep the band together when she could have left and pursued a solo career. So, yes, I know she thinks she's a peacekeeper.

What I think more of is a kind of situation in DR. Now, she didn't think she was doing anything divisive to Lindsey in that scene with Karen, but he thought she was. When she told him that Karen was dead honest, she probably thought she was trying to talk him down after he said that people were pointing fingers at them, but I think he saw her as using her people to keep a road block between them. And I think he still sees her that way today. I don't think she has a calming effect on him at all. I think he thinks he's trying to keep things together. He and Mick.

But she thinks, yes totally she thinks she's peace queen ... I mean even the way she handled Sheryl Crow, you could see she thought she was mollifying Lindsey. I mean the way she introduced the idea of Sheryl in the first place was designed to reduce frictionand then in the end after it was all over, she was serving as sort of a mediator between Sheryl and Lindsey in the public spat. But beginning or end, I don't think he thought she was keeping anything together or calm when it came to Sheryl Crow. He thought he was being hassled.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Yes, I wasn't talking about a kumbaya kind of peace and I don't think the song is talking about that kind of peace either, which is why it uses the war metaphor. I think it envisions a peace through struggle and fight and force or forcefulness. I mean an ironic version of peace.

As far as whether she calms any feathers, I don't think so. I see Mick doing that more. But yes, she thinks she does, definitely. I mean even 20 years ago she was talking about how she fought so hard to keep the band together when she could have left and pursued a solo career. So, yes, I know she thinks she's a peacekeeper.

What I think more of is a kind of situation in DR. Now, she didn't think she was doing anything divisive to Lindsey in that scene with Karen, but he thought she was. When she told him that Karen was dead honest, she probably thought she was trying to talk him down after he said that people were pointing fingers at them, but I think he saw her as using her people to keep a road block between them. And I think he still sees her that way today. I don't think she has a calming effect on him at all. I think he thinks he's trying to keep things together. He and Mick.

But she thinks, yes totally she thinks she's peace queen ... I mean even the way she handled Sheryl Crow, you could see she thought she was mollifying Lindsey. I mean the way she introduced the idea of Sheryl in the first place was designed to reduce frictionand then in the end after it was all over, she was serving as sort of a mediator between Sheryl and Lindsey in the public spat. But beginning or end, I don't think he thought she was keeping anything together or calm when it came to Sheryl Crow. He thought he was being hassled.

Michele

We should all be included in the next talk. Then we could explain what we think they were saying or doing and they could tell us what they really thought or meant & try to keep peace with all of us. :lol:

Usually the one who arms the bomb also knows how to defuse it.

[michelej1]

Usually the one who arms the bomb also knows how to defuse it.

He thinks the finished product defuses. If you get something great out of the whole thing, then it's worth it. I mean, he certainly thinks that about Tusk. I don't know what his opinion on SYW is. But that's how I interpret the love is the sweet surprise line. You battle and struggle and something great is born out of it.

I see the message of Peacekeeper as very similar to SUD.

Michele

[michelej1]

my second thought, after reading some additional explanations from people who said he may have meant this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-118_Peacekeeper - which would go well with the songs lyrics.

Certainly in keeping with take no prisoners only kill. Michele

[nicole21290]

I don't really know (as do none of us), but for the sake of lyric speculation, I think it's possible Lindsey was referring to her in Peacekeeper. I also think its significant she used basically the same phrase in FFG (about LB), when she referred to herself "High priestess...she's the keeper of the peace in this."

I don't see Peacekeeper as a political statement at all, even though they played that up, it was a convenient turn of events that helped to spin it as social relevance, just as he did with Treason.

I think Lindsey is usually the protagonist, but in FFG she was the one who "fought this long and this hard just to make sure you survive"... Unless that's someone else talking...

So far as Peacekeeper goes, Lindsey also agrees that it's also relational as well as political. I always found this quote on it quite interesting so far as that goes:

"I wrote the song about two and a half years ago. It was, in a very ironic way, looking at the kind of thinking that is matter-of-fact and desensitized towards certain actions that go on in the world, and the kind of blankness and conformity that goes along with that. And then trying to look at what that does for a married couple trying to work out their problems. How does it affect them?" (May, 2003)

Ah, yes, regarding 'surviving' she certainly believes she is the one trying to help him survive. As she said in one interview about Fall From Grace:

"No, that song's about Lindsey. That's after The Dance. I wrote that in 1998 so that's right, 1998, 1999, that's right after The Dance."
So he still knows the buttons to push?
"Oh yeah, definitely. And he tries not to push them too much now because I really don't like it. And I don't want to be angry with him now. But he knows how to get to me, absolutely."
And so in order to-
"But I'm only saving him in that song. I'm saying... [insert rambling on trying to remember the lyrics]... But it basically says, you know, 'I, I, as angry as I am at you, I'm really only trying to help you'. So at the end, when it comes to the end, it basically turns the whole thing around. Almost like he does on Never Going Back Again when he says, you know, 'I'm never going back again blah blah blah blah' but then he says 'but come around and see me again.' And Fall From Grace is kind of like that."

-

Slow down, baby
If you want to save me
It takes time

[michelej1]

Ah, yes, regarding 'surviving' she certainly believes she is the one trying to help him survive. As she said in one interview about Fall From Grace:



She always thinks she's saving him, whether it's FFG or saying leave the key here, save yourself in Smile at You -- or RTTG for that matter. And it's basically the same attitude she describes in talking about leaving Northern California and being the driving force pushing them towards fame when they moved to California.

She's even said that she wasn't really trying to sound good on BN, because she just wanted Lindsey to shine. And when it came to 1997, I am sure she feels she contributed to the family life he has now, that she let it happen. She always casts herself in that role of always being the one to sacrifice and forfeit.

Of course, when he sings of the one who has to sacrifice to make this thing come out right, I don't think he's talking about her.

Michele

[Deeshere]

She always thinks she's saving him, whether it's FFG or saying leave the key here, save yourself in Smile at You -- or RTTG for that matter. And it's basically the same attitude she describes in talking about leaving Northern California and being the driving force pushing them towards fame when they moved to California.

She's even said that she wasn't really trying to sound good on BN, because she just wanted Lindsey to shine. And when it came to 1997, I am sure she feels she contributed to the family life he has now, that she let it happen. She always casts herself in that role of always being the one to sacrifice and forfeit.

Of course, when he sings of the one who has to sacrifice to make this thing come out right, I don't think he's talking about her.

Michele


I agree. Stevie like to save people. That's why I think she loved Joe Walsh so much. He was deep into drugs when she started seeing him, and from what I have read in pretty bad shape. Like Lindsey said she romanticizes her romanticism.

[SteveMacD]

I agree. Stevie like to save people. That's why I think she loved Joe Walsh so much. He was deep into drugs when she started seeing him, and from what I have read in pretty bad shape.
The only problem is that she wasn't in much better shape at the time.