Five Most Ignored Musicians

[michelej1]

[Art Garfunkel, Ringo Starr, Most of the Jackson 5 and Krist Novoselic. Um, I don't know who Krist Novoselic is. I'm a Jackson 5 fan and I agree about Marlon, Jackie, Randy, Jermaine and Tito making this list -- well, maybe not Jermaine]

Planet Ivy Published on July 2nd, 2013 | by Max Metzger

http://planetivy.com/uknews/54047/pity-the-garfunkels-rock-and-rolls-filler/

Christine Mcvie

Say what you want about Stevie’s talent, at least Christine didn’t have to put cocaine up her asshole. Amid the sea of debauched hedonism that was Fleetwood Mac, Mcvie seemed to remain pure. Well, relatively. Though a talent in her own right, she seems unfairly pushed to the side. She wrote some of Fleetwood Mac’s great songs including Don’t Stop and You Make Loving Fun.

She stayed through that bollocks about crystals. She stayed through her divorce. She stayed faithful through the band’s erosion (perhaps due to too much cocaine in the bum, I don’t know, I wasn’t there). Quietly ducking out in 1998 and resisting repeated calls to return, she retained her dignity as Christine Mcvie and not the filler for Fleetwood Mac.

[Ulpian]

[Art Garfunkel, Ringo Starr, Most of the Jackson 5 and Krist Novoselic. Um, I don't know who Krist Novoselic is. I'm a Jackson 5 fan and I agree about Marlon, Jackie, Randy, Jermaine and Tito making this list -- well, maybe not Jermaine]

Planet Ivy Published on July 2nd, 2013 | by Max Metzger

http://planetivy.com/uknews/54047/pity-the-garfunkels-rock-and-rolls-filler/

Christine Mcvie

Say what you want about Stevie’s talent, at least Christine didn’t have to put cocaine up her asshole. Amid the sea of debauched hedonism that was Fleetwood Mac, Mcvie seemed to remain pure. Well, relatively. Though a talent in her own right, she seems unfairly pushed to the side. She wrote some of Fleetwood Mac’s great songs including Don’t Stop and You Make Loving Fun.

She stayed through that bollocks about crystals. She stayed through her divorce. She stayed faithful through the band’s erosion (perhaps due to too much cocaine in the bum, I don’t know, I wasn’t there). Quietly ducking out in 1998 and resisting repeated calls to return, she retained her dignity as Christine Mcvie and not the filler for Fleetwood Mac.

Brilliant! :D I love it.

[aleuzzi]

Okay--it's nice someone recognizes her for her excellence but is denigrating Stevie Nicks the way to do it? This is the kind of "journalism" that would make Christine cringe.

[Ulpian]

Okay--it's nice someone recognizes her for her excellence but is denigrating Stevie Nicks the way to do it? This is the kind of "journalism" that would make Christine cringe.

I disagree. I think she'd find the line about all that "bollocks about crystals" hilarious.

[aleuzzi]

Until critics and music enthusiasts can appreciate Christine McVie without cutting down Stevie Nicks to do it, I don't see how such appreciation could be complementary. Christine deserves credit on her own terms for her own contributions as they are. Period. Ironically, this article seems more about who overshadowed her than the woman herself.

[MacShadowsBall]

Brilliant! :D I love it.

I second that. :cool:

[jbrownsjr]

I never felt she was over-shadowed. I think she accomplished exactly what she wanted to. She loved being a musician and grabbing the spotlight within the band context. Sometimes people guide their own destiny in life and actually get what they want. I think she did exactly that. And when she wanted to get out, she meant it. It saddens me that the earthquake rattled her cage so much and the broken relationships she had to endure over the years. But she had an amazing career and life as musician. I hope she is very happy in retirement. I drool when I see her in the news now. Always a class act.

I think Lindsey felt more overshadowed than Christine. Perhaps more after Bella Donna. I think he left not only to be more creative, but to get more recognition on his own. I think his returning to the band was due to his popularity not really going anywhere during that time. Just my opinion.

[Villavic]

I think Stevie was a star, very popular, she was in the front, etc.. but I don't see that makes Christine being ignored. Ignored, when Fleetwood Mac got so many Christine singles? Ignored when Tango was Tango because of Christine hits?? I don't get it.

Ignored are the members that weren't invited to R&RHoF induction, for example.

[MikeInNV]

I think Stevie was a star, very popular, she was in the front, etc.. but I don't see that makes Christine being ignored. Ignored, when Fleetwood Mac got so many Christine singles? Ignored when Tango was Tango because of Christine hits?? I don't get it.

Ignored are the members that weren't invited to R&RHoF induction, for example.

I agree. I don't think she was ignored, and I don't think she wanted any more attention than she got.

[becca]

I've begged off seriously reviewing music feeling I'm ignorant to some extent, but stuff like that is beyond plain stupid. I really can't stand writers who get off trashing something, it's fine on a chat board sometimes but imagine being paid for it. None of those people come to mind when I'm thinking of overlooked musicians or overlooked anything. How ignorant. Maybe someone like Roy Buchanan, but he had multiple albums. Why don't they find someone genuinely overlooked and write an informed and informative piece that will attract rather than repel?

Krist was bass player in Nirvana, the '80s-'90s Seattle multi-platinum subject of museum exhibits. Now the 1960's Nirvana from England is worth writing more about perhaps...

[Ali]

[Art Garfunkel, Ringo Starr, Most of the Jackson 5 and Krist Novoselic. Um, I don't know who Krist Novoselic is..

Krist is the bassist from Nirvana (aka the guy who wasn't Kurt Cobain or Dave Grohl).

[redbird]

Irritating that it's obviously only Stevie that the writer means when they talk about the debauchery of the rest of Fleetwood Mac. You know what's funny is that I've always heard that John and Lindsey had more tension between them (back in the early days; not now of course) than Stevie and Christine ever did, and yet whenever I read retrospectives about FM it's always this Stevie vs Christine thing (even when it's supposed to be a nice or neutral thing, like "One was ice, the other fire! Ooh look at that clever bit of journalism!"). Using half your Christine page space to take potshots at Stevie (or anyone else) is if nothing else a waste of opportunity.

All that said, I do miss Christine's sensibility both personally and creatively as a Mac fan. She did, IMO, reign in Lindsey's and Stevie's excesses, but her supposed life in the shadows and her retirement seems to be what she wanted (I don't think she made those choices out of concern for her musical integrity though, as implied here, it seems more a lifestyle issue). I still feel like I'd be happier with new FM music if she were in the mix though.

When I saw the title of this thread (and didn't look at the forum name, because I view things from the "new posts" page), I almost thought it would be about Bob Welch or even Danny Kirwan. Not that I mind Christine getting the recognition, although I wish her earlier work would be mentioned in these type of things since I'm not really an 80s kid ... you'd think that if someone really cared about Christine's achievements they'd think to mention all the stuff she did before 1975.

[aleuzzi]

Irritating that it's obviously only Stevie that the writer means when they talk about the debauchery of the rest of Fleetwood Mac. You know what's funny is that I've always heard that John and Lindsey had more tension between them (back in the early days; not now of course) than Stevie and Christine ever did, and yet whenever I read retrospectives about FM it's always this Stevie vs Christine thing (even when it's supposed to be a nice or neutral thing, like "One was ice, the other fire! Ooh look at that clever bit of journalism!"). Using half your Christine page space to take potshots at Stevie (or anyone else) is if nothing else a waste of opportunity.

.

Exactly! What a piss poor piece of music journalism.

Christine rocks on her own merits, without anyone having to denigrate (or event mention) Stevie.

[HomerMcvie]

I never felt she was over-shadowed. I think she accomplished exactly what she wanted to. She loved being a musician and grabbing the spotlight within the band context. Sometimes people guide their own destiny in life and actually get what they want. I think she did exactly that. And when she wanted to get out, she meant it. It saddens me that the earthquake rattled her cage so much and the broken relationships she had to endure over the years. But she had an amazing career and life as musician. I hope she is very happy in retirement. I drool when I see her in the news now. Always a class act.

I think Lindsey felt more overshadowed than Christine. Perhaps more after Bella Donna. I think he left not only to be more creative, but to get more recognition on his own. I think his returning to the band was due to his popularity not really going anywhere during that time. Just my opinion.

John, you are my twin. Every word is spot on!

[michelej1]

Krist is the bassist from Nirvana (aka the guy who wasn't Kurt Cobain or Dave Grohl).

Oh, ok. Thank you.

Michele

[michelej1]

Irritating that it's obviously only Stevie that the writer means when they talk about the debauchery of the rest of Fleetwood Mac. You know what's funny is that I've always heard that John and Lindsey had more tension between them (back in the early days; not now of course) than Stevie and Christine ever did, and yet whenever I read retrospectives about FM it's always this Stevie vs Christine thing (even when it's supposed to be a nice or neutral thing, like "One was ice, the other fire! Ooh look at that clever bit of journalism!").


That's why I don't like that part of the story where Mick says they let Christine decide whether or not SnL could join the band, because there's nothing worse than two women not getting along. Actually, I don't think two women not getting along is any worse than two men not getting along or a man and a woman not getting along. I just don't buy into the argument that every other combo can handle their differences, but two women?? Eek. Catfight:eek: That doesn't fly with me. It's like, 'gee I handled the Bob Weston situation so maturely, but there's nothing worse than when two women don't get along.'

Sometimes women don't get along, but I don't see how their disagreements would be more fatal than anyone else's. Personality conflicts can get pretty bad no matter what the gender of the people involved. No reason to think Christine and Stevie are going to start fighting over men -- or lipstick, or be inherent rivals, just because they're female.

Michele

[Dr.Brown]

Sometimes women don't get along, but I don't see how their disagreements would be more fatal than anyone else's.

That's the key - for guys there's definitely a fate worse than death. It was very chauvinistic of them (but hey, we're talking about the mid-70's) yet even today many men get really uncomfortable being around this kind of thing. For them it's all about the unpredictability, where a woman can seemingly go from "cute, sweet and quiet" to full-on "Lorena Bobbitt" mode almost instantaneously.

[michelej1]

That's the key - for guys there's definitely a fate worse than death. It was very chauvinistic of them (but hey, we're talking about the mid-70's) yet even today many men get really uncomfortable being around this kind of thing. For them it's all about the unpredictability, where a woman can seemingly go from "cute, sweet and quiet" to full-on "Lorena Bobbitt" mode almost instantaneously.

But one of the women was a known quantity. They knew she wasn't the Lorena Bobbitt type. It was John chasing her down with a knife, not the other way around. I mean, it's good to consult her, but as another member of the group, not as a WOMAN. I realize that when Christine was working in the department store, she didn't have much use for the women she worked with, but I'm sure there are lots of men she didn't like. Mick should have consulted her about bringing Dave Mason aboard. Maybe her and Dave working full time together may have been worse than her and another woman.

Redbird mentioned John and Lindsey and it's annoying to me that when they all remember 1975, Mick really doesn't say much about them or about the tension that he and Stevie may have created in the band (not only with Lindsey, but with Jenny too, who was around them). He just likes to get nostalgic and recall how he knew there would be nothing worse than two women snapping at each other.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing how Stevie incorporates Christine into her Without You intro for the London shows.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

But one of the women was a known quantity. They knew she wasn't the Lorena Bobbitt type. It was John chasing her down with a knife, not the other way around. I mean, it's good to consult her, but as another member of the group, not as a WOMAN. I realize that when Christine was working in the department store, she didn't have much use for the women she worked with, but I'm sure there are lots of men she didn't like. Mick should have consulted her about bringing Dave Mason aboard. Maybe her and Dave working full time together may have been worse than her and another woman.

Redbird mentioned John and Lindsey and it's annoying to me that when they all remember 1975, Mick really doesn't say much about them or about the tension that he and Stevie may have created in the band (not only with Lindsey, but with Jenny too, who was around them). He just likes to get nostalgic and recall how he knew there would be nothing worse than two women snapping at each other.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing how Stevie incorporates Christine into her Without You intro for the London shows.

Michele

I like your take on this. It's like they're talking about cats or something. lol

[Villavic]

Now i remember a Christine interview while she was promoting In The Meantime.

She mentioned her songs here were not padding, something that she felt while recording Fleetwood Mac albums, or something like that. But I can't believe she ever felt her songs were categorized as padding. Tango in the Night was that succesful mainly because of her singles, just for example, I mean talking about what you heard on the radio.

[nicepace]

I have nothing to say about the crude Stevie-bashing in this item, but I do think the writer has a valid point in including Christine in a list of most ignored musicians. The key word being musician. I think Christine has had tons of recognition as a vocalist and a songwriter, but very little as a musician. There weren't a whole lot of women in bands in the 1960s and early 1970s who not only sang, but wrote their own songs, and played an instrument. I can't think of a single other woman in that time frame who did all three jobs in a mixed-gender band, on an equal basis with the men in the band.

In my opinion, this makes her an important rock 'n' roll pioneer, but I have given up on ever seeing an actual rock critic or historian make this point.

[becca]

I can't think of a single other woman in that time frame who did all three jobs in a mixed-gender band, on an equal basis with the men in the band.

Sandy Denny in Fotheringay and Fairport Convention 1969-1975 (she even played and recorded on two instruments as well as sang and wrote; piano and guitar). Oh and she was in The Strawbs in 1967 doing the same. I'm sure there were other women, but point taken that Chris' keyboards are under appreciated. :cool:

[redbird]

It's like, 'gee I handled the Bob Weston situation so maturely, but there's nothing worse than when two women don't get along.'

Yeah precisely :laugh: How many times have two men who couldn't get along ruined a rock'n'roll band? It's stupid to put women in this position where they have to be better behaved than men to prove that they're not worse. Human beings in close contact will often experience tensions, and I'm sure Christine and Stevie had their tensions, but no more so than any other two people in the band, and probably less than a fair few pairs of members. It's a grating stereotype.

I do think the writer has a valid point in including Christine in a list of most ignored musicians. The key word being musician. I think Christine has had tons of recognition as a vocalist and a songwriter, but very little as a musician.

This is a good point. It struck me as odd (albeit in another way) that on a blurb devoted to underappreciation, it's the more acknowledged aspects of Christine's career that got mentioned anyway. Things like these are a good opportunity to enlighten people beyond what they can read or hear elsewhere (provided the author knows enough her/himself).

[SteveMacD]

Sandy Denny in Fotheringay and Fairport Convention 1969-1975 (she even played and recorded on two instruments as well as sang and wrote; piano and guitar). Oh and she was in The Strawbs in 1967 doing the same.
Vortex! I just saw Richard Thompson last night!

ETA: I would have loved a band fronted by Sandy Denny and Richard and Linda Thompson.

[becca]

Vortex! I just saw Richard Thompson last night!

ETA: I would have loved a band fronted by Sandy Denny and Richard and Linda Thompson.

I'm envious. He came through my hometown recently and I wasn't home! :(