Worst FM album?

[KenB]

Has anyone ever done a poll here on FM's worst album? I'd start one, but I'd like it to include all eras of FM rather than just the BN era, and I don't know if there's a way to have a thread that crosses forums. My least favorite is "Future Games" (and I generally love the Bob Welch era). Second least would be "Time."

[dontlookdown]

Love Future Games.

Would probably have to go with Time.
It's the only FM album I couldn't listen to all the way from start to finish,
the only FM album I didn't want to play again after it ended,
and the only FM album I never bought.

Although I couldn't get enough of it when it was released,
Tango In The Night might be my least favorite from the BN era.
It still has its moments, but it just didn't hold up after all these years.
Probably due to the incredibly weak songs/vocals from Stevie Nicks.

[shackin'up]

Love Future Games.

Would probably have to go with Time.
It's the only FM album I couldn't listen to all the way from start to finish,
the only FM album I didn't want to play again after it ended,
and the only FM album I never bought.

Although I couldn't get enough of it when it was released,
Tango In The Night might be my least favorite from the BN era.
It still has its moments, but it just didn't hold up after all these years.
Probably due to the incredibly weak songs/vocals from Stevie Nicks.

These are my picks too, for exactly the same reasons, dontlookdown! And I LOVE future games.

[secret love]

I can't stand Rumours. It's just awful. Most jarring, dissonant music I've ever listened to. :D

Of the Rumours/Post-Rumours era which I'm most familiar with:
Behind the Mask did not do much for me. I liked Skies the Limit (and tolerated the titular error) and Freedom.

Mirage suffered from trying to be a second Rumours. Stevie's songs were all great, I liked Chris' Hold Me and Love in Store, Lindsey's Book of Love is sweet and Oh Diane was enjoyable if only for it being Lindsey's Elvis moment and a strangely catchy song. So there is a fair bit on that album that worked for me but there is a handful of songs on it which just don't grab me. It bugs me that Stevie was only ever allowed three songs per album as part of the Rumours line-up. The angry studio version of Smile at You should have made the cut and it should have also been peformed and recorded live.

I can't really choose a pre-BN album that I don't like because I haven't listened to all of those albums. I like what I've heard of Christine's songs on Mystery to Me (Believe Me, & Why), Albatross is another favourite. I have the Black Magic Woman compilation double CD and there isn't a song I've listened to on it that I don't like. Have not listened to much of Time though what I have listened to I enjoyed. Love Bekka's voice...wish she would do a new solo record.

[sleepless child]

Worst Fleetwood Mac record? Time. Just can't even get thru it. What a mess. I think it came out in 1993?

[bluefox4000]

Lowest on my list are Mirage, Time......And All Peter Green era stuff:sorry:

Mick

[redbird]

Time, by far.

Of the B&N-including albums Tango is my least favorite. I like all the Welch-era albums. Mr. Wonderful sounds a little samey-samey to me but I don't dislike it exactly.

[rhiannondontgo]

Can't comment on the pre-BN stuff because I don't listen to very much of it. But I do love Peter Green.
I honestly think the post-BN albums got steadily worse after Tusk. From a BN fan's perspective, there's this awesome story almost, that goes on with the first 3. The White Album has this thing going on where they're like "we're all romantically involved with one another and we're getting fed up". You can hear that in Monday Morning, Landslide, etc. Then Rumours is like "ok now we're all broken up and we're kind of bitter and there's lots of drama" and you've got the Dreams, NGBA, Silver Springs, GYOW, SHN thing. Then Tusk, which is artistically gorgeous, is like "now that we're all broken up, we've all banged other members of the band and roadies and rockstars and there's still a lot of drama" and all the songs are like the stories of the later relationships. Lindsey's songs seem to mostly be about what's happened after the break-up. WMYTYTO, That's Enough For Me, NTF, IKINW, etc. And Stevie's are all about her relationships after the fact. Storms is her affair with Mick, Beautiful Child is the affair with Derek Taylor, Sara is the Mick/Sara/Stevie situation with Don Henley and JD Souther and the other members of FM all mixed in.
And I think that magic voyeur-ism aspect to the band stops with Tusk. I never feel that way about Mirage or Tango (which I kind of think both albums are over produced and too pop-music-y :shrug: ). And especially BTM and Time. I can't stand either of those albums, with the only exceptions being Freedom and The Second Time. and they still aren't my favorites.
I do really like SYW for the most part though. And I love Lindsey's 3 songs from the EP.

[MacShadowsBall]

Interesting as I've been thinking about what new contest to do. Least Favorite Mac album would that be a good one to do? :shrug:

[WildHearted]

If we're just talking Rumours-era, then for me it's Tango (I love it, but I love Mirage more). I'm not counting SYW because I put that in a different category.

If we're going for all eras, then I'd have to say Time. It just didn't hold my interest. But I can enjoy PG, and I really adore the whole Welch period actually.

[jwd]

Time. Worst chemistry and lowest point of the band's history ever.

[vivfox]

Time. Worst chemistry and lowest point of the band's history ever.


I agree. I wonder if Lindsey's Time Bomb Town was about this era of the band?

[Villavic]

Time.
But if you mean Rumours lineup, I wouldn't use the word worst, he he
Then my least favorite album is Mirage

[Angel69]

That would be Time

[aleuzzi]

Behind the Mask. Awful.

Time is better.

[TimeCastASpell]

I'm missing a huge portion of my Mac collection so I don't know if I can say really. I do know I had Time and don't recall ever really listening to it but anything I had (and I had probably 5 albums or so) outside of the BN/Rumours era were largely forgotten about though I really want to give the pre-Rumours stuff a chance now that I'm older and have different tastes. I was and will always be heavily into Stevie so I think in the past I was apt to not care about any album without her!

I recently picked up Mirage on vinyl. I wasn't sure I'd ever owned it but I think I did when I heard it. I honestly have to say I did like it especially the Chris and Lindsey songs but beyond Gypsy I thought the Stevie songs were very blah. Don't have Tango in my possession now but I know that I did listen to it a lot and if I did have Mirage back then then Tango got a lot more play.

Don't hate me for saying this but I honestly really didnt like Tusk when I was younger. As soon as I get some money I'm looking to buy it on vinyl and am actually really looking forward to giving it another go but yeah... I remember being disappointed with it in my childhood. Would've definitely played Mirage more than Tusk and if I played Tusk I skipped a lot of songs...

[moon]

I really don't know much about their first -first- albums, you know.
But definitely, the worst FM album, is Time. Ew!
BTM has In the back of my mind, at least. But Time, has nothing...

[chiliD]

Seriously...Rumours. :nod:

It killed the band. Everything from there on was compared to it. They STILL think people want to hear those songs in concert. I could go the rest of my life without hearing ANY song from it and I wouldn't miss it a bit.

It basically f***ed up the band forever.

[louielouie2000]

Time. It's just a mess. Syrupy thick production. Bland music. Cobbled together singers/songwriters with little chemistry. As a whole work, there's just not much good to say about this album. I could levy the exact same criticisms against Behind the Mask. However, what began during Behind The Mask was simply exacerbated by Time. It's not to say neither album had any good songs on them. Christine McVie's presence blessedly prevented that. But Christine's opting out of touring with the Time incarnation of the band really says it all.

[TheGreenBlues]

Tusk.

Lindsey trying to be get into the new age/punk era and failing miserable.

If Then Play On is their peak to me then Tusk is their downfall.

[jbrownsjr]

Say You Will. I can't stand this album.

[becca]

I guess I'd have to say Tusk, yet I wouldn't get rid of any of the albums, even that one. I bought Tusk when it came out and felt ripped off because it cost more than a regular album. To me there was barely one regular FM album there and a ton of Lindsey demos, and they weren't interesting ones to me where he plays some beautiful guitar, they were sort of one song repeated with variations by somebody who'd just discovered a box of studio gimmicks and some cheesy synths. I remember the first Depeche Mode LP Speak & Spell was out around then, and Joe Jackson's first two albums and I really liked them, so I wasn't anti-New Wave. Boiled down to one LP I still think Tusk a bit thin, but at two LP length to me it was just an extravagant rip-off at the time. Now like Time it's something that seems like two very different albums grafted together. Penguin was a half baked album, somewhat an odds and sods, I can imagine people being disappointed with it as an album back in 1973. Kiln House was also somewhat half baked; maybe it's the title and cover art that make it seem a bit more unified.

[Villavic]

Seriously...Rumours. :nod:

It killed the band. Everything from there on was compared to it. They STILL think people want to hear those songs in concert. I could go the rest of my life without hearing ANY song from it and I wouldn't miss it a bit.

It basically f***ed up the band forever.

So shouldn't we blame it on the people, and not the album? I read your words and I can't find any "bad songs", "bad production", etc. You just mention people, compared, want to hear, etc. And yes it makes sense, I see your point, but that doesn't make an album the "worst".

I mean, my point is that I've always thought the same about all the hypersuccesful and then hyperhated albums (and songs, movies, etc.). They became the "worst" because everybody start to talk about them and nothing more, they always play them (radios, discos, concerts, elevators, etc.). So at the end we get really sick about them. Think in Bee Gees, Thriller, Titanic movie. hey all had that effect. And in Rumours case, yes, it's 2013 and they still fill the concert with Rumours songs, forgetting so many great songs from the other albums. But again... the album itself.. can't be the worst just because of that. IMHO.

Mick mentioned in his album, about what Lindsey thought before starting Tusk recording sessions:
Lindsey Buckingham was especially perturbed; he felt that with the success of Rumours, "the work" was being ignored in favor of "the phenomenon." This was important because Lindsey was our chief architect and creator. He was totally dedicated to the art of it, and driven by pure intentions. He lived for his art the way Brian Wilson did, with few outside interests and a dislike of distractions. Lindsey wasn't even in it for the money anymore. He just wanted it to be good.

[becca]

Brian Wilson also put out some overblown pretentious crap (ever get a copy of Holland with the weird extra EP included?). I never thought Pet Sounds was the bees knees all around, either in stereo or mono, but then I've never understood quite what was so great about the Phil Spector wall-of-sound being applied to everything and anything.

If "He just wanted it to be good" someone needed to tell him how less is more around then. The double-album is an ego trip many have tripped on though.

[RickRobert]

Mirage, love Gypsy though

[SteveMacD]

"Time" is not even in my bottom five.

5: Heroes Are Hard To Find. I really like this record, and the live versions of the songs I've heard from this tour were mind-blowing good, to the point where it makes me think a little less of the studio version. (See also: "Rhiannon" and "Sisters Of The Moon") But you could tell that they were all feeling strained about all of the crap they went through, and possibly would rather be anywhere other than making a new Fleetwood Mac album.

4: Penguin. Christine's songs are great. "Nightwatch" and "Revelation" are classic Welch, though "Bright Fire" doesn't do too much for me (nor did it Bob). The Walker stuff was pretty forgettable. Weston's song is pleasant, though unnecessary.

3: Mirage. Stevie saves this otherwise bland snoozefest from getting pitched.

2: Say You Will. They forgot the whole "less is more" philosophy on this one. It would have made for an amazing 10 song album. Some songs (i.e. "Murrow" and "Illume (9-11)") would have been better on solo albums or just simply never released, while other songs (i.e. "Down On Rodeo") were released on solo albums, but would have been much better in the context of a Fleetwood Mac record. While I hate bland records like "Mirage", I don't think Fleetwood Mac is necessarily the best place for Lindsey to do completely wacky musical experiments.

1: Behind The Mask. While "Time" was a disjointed mess, at least Richard Dashut was at the helm, and it had the basic sonic fundamentals of the Fleetwood Mac sound. On the other hand, the production on "Behind The Mask" was just horrid and cheesy. The songs were okay, but there were better songs NOT chosen (I blame corporate). I made playlists that replace the weaker Burnette/Vito songs with the better songs (i.e. "Intuition" or "Victim Of Love"), and while it helps, the album still feels weak. So, I replaced all of the Burnette/Vito songs with songs by highly acclaimed artists, such as Eric Clapton, Richard Thompson, and even Lindsey Buckingham, that were recorded around the same time, and the album still falls short. I still don't know if it's the performances, the songs themselves, or the production that kills this record. "Freedom" is the epitome of this. It seems like it should be a good song, but I generally find it annoying and unlistenable. In any event, I've decided that I can't blame Billy or Rick.

[shackin'up]

If "He just wanted it to be good" someone needed to tell him how less is more around then. The double-album is an ego trip many have tripped on though.

It's the best thing they ever recorded. That has been recorded. By Anyone.

[chiliD]

It's the best thing they ever recorded. That has been recorded. By Anyone.

Still perched alone on that hill, aren't ya? :nod::laugh:

[shackin'up]

Still perched alone on that hill, aren't ya? :nod::laugh:

We're both alone on a hill, Chili. Different hills though. You on your 'Rumours is the worst album Fm made, it ruïned everything'-hill, and me on my 'Tusk is the best album ever recorded by anyone, because it changed a mainstreamband in an artisticly visionary guts-band'- hill.Beautiful view from here. How's yours?

[chiliD]

We're both alone on a hill, Chili. Different hills though. You on your 'Rumours is the worst album Fm made, it ruïned everything'-hill, and me on my 'Tusk is the best album ever recorded by anyone, because it changed a mainstreamband in an artisticly visionary guts-band'- hill.Beautiful view from here. How's yours?

My view is great...can pretty much imagine that yours is just a mirage (no pun intended). :laugh:

[AncientQueen]

For me, it is Penguin, not that the songs are all bad, but the album sounds so uneven, more like a label compilation not the combined work of musicians working together.

I also don't like TitN, aside from the title track everything is bland and overproduced, I bought it the day it came out and was so disapointed by it.

Time combines the 2 problems above, but the songwriting is a bit better and I cannot hate an album that solely depends on Christines songwriting.

SYW - The80s called, they want the rest of their overproducing and their old by-the-number tricks which weren't used on TitN back.

[shackin'up]

My view is great...can pretty much imagine that yours is just a mirage (no pun intended). :laugh:

My mirage is now 34 Years old. I call it Reality. :D

[moon]

Mirage, love Gypsy though

And you have the album cover as your user picture?????????
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Villavic]

Hills.. mirages. fortunately I'm in heaven ;)

[WatchChain]

TIME

Runner Up: BEHIND THE MASK

[dino]

The Peter Green era is genius (ok, Mr Wonderful has one too many Elmore James tributes). The Kirwan albums are wonderful. The post-Kirwan albums, pre BN are never less than workmanlike fun.
While no big admirer of the BN incarnation I can see their first 2 albums have a kernel of intrinsically good pop songwriting from the perspective of melodious harmony. As Lindsay Buckingham the wannabe college professor would put it.
Tusk is a decent single disc at most. Mirage is bland. TITN I actually like. Behind The Mask sucks. SYW is exceedingly badly produced.
But Time is one desperate album.

[sjpdg]

Penguin. {Hands down, no questions asked (pun intended as that is my least favourite single of the Vito/Burnette era and least favourite Stevie song EVER!!).}

While "Behind The Mask" might have some elements of "over production", it's still better than "Penguin" by thousands of miles in my opinion. "Time" is by no means anywhere near the best of FM's work, it's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Can anyone really say that "The Derelict" and "Roadrunner" are better than "Save Me" or "Winds Of Change"? I'd rather listen to cats in heat than "The Derelict" or "Roadrunner".

[bluefox4000]

Penguin. {Hands down, no questions asked (pun intended as that is my least favourite single of the Vito/Burnette era and least favourite Stevie song EVER!!).}



While "Behind The Mask" might have some elements of "over production", it's still better than "Penguin" by thousands of miles in my opinion. "Time" is by no means anywhere near the best of FM's work, it's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Can anyone really say that "The Derelict" and "Roadrunner" are better than "Save Me" or "Winds Of Change"? I'd rather listen to cats in heat than "The Derelict" or "Roadrunner".

I'll say it....I LOVE the Derelict. So Poo on you:p

Mick

[PenguinHead]

The album Time is an easy, default target for many reasons: it's not a traditional and cohesive band album. It's just a varied configuration of musicians; a collection of varied contributions under the moniker of Fleetwood Mac.

This is Mick Fleetwood attempting to keep the Fleetwood Mac flame burning at a "Time" when the entire establishment was in complete flux. Individually, there are some very good songs on it. I'm now more forgiving about it.

In fact, I listened to it the other day, without any judgement, and really enjoyed various aspects of it. I believe this album was important because the band was on life support, and this kept them alive, allowing the brand to move on and evolve.

There are some horrible warts and missteps (songs) on other Fleetwood Mac albums that much more worse than the Time album is in its entirety.

Tango in the Night has not aged well. Stevie's contributions are a part of the problem. Of the middle period of the band - Kiln House through Heroes Are Hard to Find - Penguin is likely the weakest, though there are some good songs on it.

[KenB]

Can anyone really say that "The Derelict" and "Roadrunner" are better than "Save Me" or "Winds Of Change"? I'd rather listen to cats in heat than "The Derelict" or "Roadrunner".

I LOVE "The Derelict" (my second favorite song on Penguin, next to "Did You Ever Love Me") and dislike "Save Me."

[becca]

I think they should've kept Dave Walker for a full album. I've seen a load of photos where Dave is an obviously comfortable front guy on stage so a good combination all around you'd think, and then they removed him from studio recordings after he left kind of like when Gram Parsons left the Byrds. A deluxe Penguin or Mystery To me could add those. There was a time when the Byrds' Sweetheart Of The Rodeo was considered unquestionably their worst and yet now it's a classic with a 2 CD deluxe edition!

[Villavic]

And you have the album cover as your user picture?????????
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I have Mirage and Rumours covers framed, hanging on my bedroom wall.

And the Dance poster.

[secret love]

For me, it is Penguin, not that the songs are all bad, but the album sounds so uneven, more like a label compilation not the combined work of musicians working together.

I also don't like TitN, aside from the title track everything is bland and overproduced, I bought it the day it came out and was so disapointed by it.

Time combines the 2 problems above, but the songwriting is a bit better and I cannot hate an album that solely depends on Christines songwriting.
SYW - The80s called, they want the rest of their overproducing and their old by-the-number tricks which weren't used on TitN back.

Hey, don't write Bekka off so easily! Winds of Change is awesome!

And what do you mean re: SYW is overproduced? I don't disagree, just not sure I understand what the overproduced means in real terms. Poor track sequencing? Poor, repetitive instrumental tracks? Over-manipulated vocals (autotune)? Instrumental tracks which could have benefited from ...less instruments/decreased use of certain instruments? (Like how Without You really only needs to be Stevie with Lindsey and his guitar...and the two of them taking turns singing verses and singing the chorus together plus maybe some occasional additional lines)

[RockawayBlind]

Worst: Time
Best: Tusk (possibly the best ever)

[sjpdg]

Lowest on my list are Mirage, Time......And All Peter Green era stuff:sorry:

Mick

So, basically, everything that started the band, you don't like?! That's bizarre. Had it not been for Peter, there would be no Fleetwood Mac, and Stevie and Lindsey would likely have squandered in obscurity. Lindsey would likely have made it with another band, but not likely that whomever that band was would have taken the "package" deal that Lindsey offered Mick that brought Stevie on board.

[sjpdg]

I'll say it....I LOVE the Derelict. So Poo on you:p

Mick


"Poo on you"? Everybody has a right to an opinion, but really.

Peace to you.

[tilthefirefades]

Worst in the sense of the history of the band has to be Rumours. It really did kill the band. It ruined the attraction of growth and exploration in their sound. Before Rumours they could have come out with anything and it would have been this estranged artistic experiment. But Rumours was so perfectly produced and constructed that everything has to be the same. It created a monetary construct that Lindsey constantly struggled to fight, hence his insane solo career. Now I'm not sure any of them fight it. If any of the bandmates really cared about their artistic integrity they would probably deny any tours that featured the same slop over and over. Sisters and Not That Funny are lazy additions among the obnoxiously ordinary setlist.

Worst in my opinion? I unfortunately have to say Mirage. Didn't care for Christine's contributions beyond Hold Me. Although Lindsey's are great in my opinion, they pale in comparison to his potential. Beyond the fact that I am a total Chiffonhead, Stevie really carried this album to it's short lived recognition.

[jwd]

Worst in the sense of the history of the band has to be Rumours. It really did kill the band.

:laugh: You mean the one that's still touring to this day? If anything Rumours was the catalyst that kept this band going! Please stop the Rumours bashing. One of the greatest albums of all time. The band knew it, we know it, history knows it!!!!!! :blob2:

[bluefox4000]

"Poo on you"? Everybody has a right to an opinion, but really.

Peace to you.

Relax.....I was kidding.

Peace to you as well.

Mick

[becca]

So, basically, everything that started the band, you don't like?! That's bizarre. Had it not been for Peter, there would be no Fleetwood Mac, and Stevie and Lindsey would likely have squandered in obscurity. Lindsey would likely have made it with another band, but not likely that whomever that band was would have taken the "package" deal that Lindsey offered Mick that brought Stevie on board.

To each their own; some people like unprocessed guitar that B.B.King recognized as the highest quality and some like super-glossy drum machine music enhanced with fifty vocal overdubs and hand clapping effects. :D

The thing that gets me with things like Tusk, Mirage and Tango is that Buckingham is an excellent guitarist who I enjoy a lot, it's just as a producer he drives me up the wall! I don't get that wall of sound Pet Sounds worship thing either so many have. To me it so often buries what I'm into with pointless icing layered on. I love Wish You Were Here on Mirage, maybe because it has the least processing?

I'll still take the 'worst' Mac album over the best by many others! :cool:

[redbird]

While "Behind The Mask" might have some elements of "over production", it's still better than "Penguin" by thousands of miles in my opinion. "Time" is by no means anywhere near the best of FM's work, it's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Can anyone really say that "The Derelict" and "Roadrunner" are better than "Save Me" or "Winds Of Change"? I'd rather listen to cats in heat than "The Derelict" or "Roadrunner".

"Roadrunner" was the song that I realized I had to skip in order to "get" Penguin. "The Derelict", however, I actually like, as out of place as it may seem. And I prefer either to "Save Me".

[PenguinHead]

Worst in the sense of the history of the band has to be Rumours. It really did kill the band. It ruined the attraction of growth and exploration in their sound. Before Rumours they could have come out with anything and it would have been this estranged artistic experiment. But Rumours was so perfectly produced and constructed that everything has to be the same. It created a monetary construct that Lindsey constantly struggled to fight, hence his insane solo career. Now I'm not sure any of them fight it. If any of the bandmates really cared about their artistic integrity they would probably deny any tours that featured the same slop over and over. Sisters and Not That Funny are lazy additions among the obnoxiously ordinary setlist.


I completely understand what you are saying, and I have to agree. The massive success of Rumours set a precedent, and, in Lindsey's terms, the "Big Machine" was created, which fundamentally ****ed up their priorities and stunted their creative streak to a certain point. I give big love and credit to Lindsey for making the effort to avoid that.

Tusk was and is a very significant work in that matter. Yet the backlash for not following the status-quo really bruised his ego, and he retreated. Only in his solo career could he branch out. Law and Order was so out of left field because it furthered his statement of rebellion, and the origins of the Small Machine. With Christine's departure, he is now the single driving force of the band. Let's hope stubborn Stevie will get on board. I'd love to see them do an album as quirky, loose and challenging as Tusk, and not one so uniformly steely and morose as Say You Will.

[becca]

Tusk was and is a very significant work in that matter. Yet the backlash for not following the status-quo really bruised his ego, and he retreated. Only in his solo career could he branch out. Law and Order was so out of left field because it furthered his statement of rebellion, and the origins of the Small Machine. With Christine's departure, he is now the single driving force of the band. Let's hope stubborn Stevie will get on board. I'd love to see them do an album as quirky, loose and challenging as Tusk, and not one so uniformly steely and morose as Say You Will.

This is interesting as I seem to have things differently in my head. I saw Rumours as more the start of overly-polishing and over-dubbing everything. The band were obviously fragmented on a personal basis of which much is made and often couldn't be in the room together for long, sort of like with The Beatles' White Album. Tusk was an exaggeration of that so it was more phoned in by some and Buckingham was left to obsessively polish everything and put a lot of solo stuff on as a group recording. To top Rumours he went further into layering on effects, and odd sounds like the marching band, and a t6wo LP set no matter if there was two LPs of material there. Ambitious yes, successful, not so much I felt. As someone who bought the stuff when it came out I felt he was following Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson and the new wave guys rather than being originally driven, and I missed his excellent guitar either buried under the effects and icing or not there at all in favor of quirky synths in place of band members.

Probably the real fault of Tusk to me is the laziness of the other members or their distractions in planning solo albums. Plus the hair styles were so elaborate and expensive in the photos, and that always puts me off an artist! :laugh:

I just don't see Tusk as Fleetwood Mac album. It is bits of what might have been one and a lot of solo Buckingham stuff, much half finished in my opinion and suffering from a sameness where they almost make one mass of quirk popping up between Christine and Stevie second drawer material that had to be made do with.

I'm glad some people enjoyed it where I was disappointed. Next to albums by Costello, Jackson, The Clash, Boomtown Rats, various skinny-tie U.S. power-pop (The Nerve, Cars, Blondie, Talking Heads) and whatever else I had around at the time it seemed second rate unfortunately but honestly. To you it was genuine rebellion and to me it was grasping and following a trend.

Thank you Tusk defenders for the opportunity to think and listen further though! I guess I'm a hopeless Derelict enjoyer, it moved in with me some time ago along with Danny and Peter and Bob, after I bought Tusk all excited and then found myself almost never playing it.

[Dreamz19]

Penguin, Mirage and Behind the Mask.

[MikeInNV]

This is interesting as I seem to have things differently in my head. I saw Rumours as more the start of overly-polishing and over-dubbing everything. The band were obviously fragmented on a personal basis of which much is made and often couldn't be in the room together for long, sort of like with The Beatles' White Album. Tusk was an exaggeration of that so it was more phoned in by some and Buckingham was left to obsessively polish everything and put a lot of solo stuff on as a group recording. To top Rumours he went further into layering on effects, and odd sounds like the marching band, and a t6wo LP set no matter if there was two LPs of material there. Ambitious yes, successful, not so much I felt. As someone who bought the stuff when it came out I felt he was following Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson and the new wave guys rather than being originally driven, and I missed his excellent guitar either buried under the effects and icing or not there at all in favor of quirky synths in place of band members.

Probably the real fault of Tusk to me is the laziness of the other members or their distractions in planning solo albums. Plus the hair styles were so elaborate and expensive in the photos, and that always puts me off an artist! :laugh:

I just don't see Tusk as Fleetwood Mac album. It is bits of what might have been one and a lot of solo Buckingham stuff, much half finished in my opinion and suffering from a sameness where they almost make one mass of quirk popping up between Christine and Stevie second drawer material that had to be made do with.

I'm glad some people enjoyed it where I was disappointed. Next to albums by Costello, Jackson, The Clash, Boomtown Rats, various skinny-tie U.S. power-pop (The Nerve, Cars, Blondie, Talking Heads) and whatever else I had around at the time it seemed second rate unfortunately but honestly. To you it was genuine rebellion and to me it was grasping and following a trend.

Thank you Tusk defenders for the opportunity to think and listen further though! I guess I'm a hopeless Derelict enjoyer, it moved in with me some time ago along with Danny and Peter and Bob, after I bought Tusk all excited and then found myself almost never playing it.

Interesting to read your take on things. While there are mixed feelings about Christine's songs, when people use the words "lazy" and "second drawer material" with Stevie, they are almost never talking about the Tusk album.

[michelej1]

Interesting to read your take on things. While there are mixed feelings about Christine's songs, when people use the words "lazy" and "second drawer material" with Stevie, they are almost never talking about the Tusk album.

I know. I guess Stevie just didn't bring her "A" game to Tusk like she did for Tango :laugh:.

Michele

[Villavic]

I know. I guess Stevie just didn't bring her "A" game to Tusk like she did for Tango :laugh:.

Michele

More than not bringing the best stuff, I think she wasn't as good in 1987 as in the 70s. Her solo albums weren't so good in early 90s and late 80s

[SteveMacD]

More than not bringing the best stuff, I think she wasn't as good in 1987 as in the 70s.
It's not that she wasn't AS good, she just wasn't good, period.

[becca]

The best track on Tusk would've been Sara but not at almost nine minutes which is what it was on the original 2LP set. I was like 'I paid four bucks more than for a single album for this'? I bought Bella Donna when it arrived anyway, and Mirage, and thought both far better. Your milage may vary, this is just how I felt when I was in my early teens and on my way to wearing out out two cassettes of Rumours and made a dent on both the 1975 album and Rumours on vinyl as well.

[becca]

It's not that she wasn't AS good, she just wasn't good, period.

I disagree with that, as with politics and religion I find myself someplace in the middle among motivated extremes. :(

Over time I have listened to Christine's songs by far more than the non-Chris ones from the 1975-on releases. But Buckingham and Nicks are both extremely talented and skillful in my opinion. If there were a Fritz collection or new pre-Mac recordings I'd be there early in line.

[SteveMacD]

I disagree with that, as with politics and religion I find myself someplace in the middle among motivated extremes. :(

Over time I have listened to Christine's songs by far more than the non-Chris ones from the 1975-on releases. But Buckingham and Nicks are both extremely talented and skillful in my opinion. If there were a Fritz collection or new pre-Mac recordings I'd be there early in line.
Yeah, I was talking about Stevie in 1987, and she was not good in 1987.

[sjpdg]

Relax.....I was kidding.

Peace to you as well.

Mick



:nod: :laugh: ;) All good my friend. All good.

[sjpdg]

To each their own; some people like unprocessed guitar that B.B.King recognized as the highest quality and some like super-glossy drum machine music enhanced with fifty vocal overdubs and hand clapping effects. :D

The thing that gets me with things like Tusk, Mirage and Tango is that Buckingham is an excellent guitarist who I enjoy a lot, it's just as a producer he drives me up the wall! I don't get that wall of sound Pet Sounds worship thing either so many have. To me it so often buries what I'm into with pointless icing layered on. I love Wish You Were Here on Mirage, maybe because it has the least processing?

I'll still take the 'worst' Mac album over the best by many others! :cool:

Agreed!! "Wish You Were Here" is one of my favourite Mac songs.

[gypsy-sara]

Even the worst FM album is still pretty decent, IMO...

But as far as "worst" goes:
I don't like "Kiln House" that much.

[The Highwayman]

From the Buckingham Nicks lineup of FM (or what everyone else but me call the Rumours lineup), and I'd have to pick a studio album, no live albums or compilations...hmmm I'd say...uh...well, reluctantly, Tango In The Night. I hate saying that because Tango is a truly great album. It's just not quite as good as the white FM album, Rumours, Tusk, Mirage or Say You Will. Tango is awesome though, really.

Otherwise, including live albums and comps, I'd say Live in Boston, as it's nowhere near as good as the studio albums or their various compilations or The Dance or FM Live for that matter. Really, really good though! And IF Christine does play with FM in London in September, that would be a perfect opportunity to play 'Fireflies' live for once, ARE YOU LISTENING, STEVIE?!?

..Sorry. I just love, love, love that song.

[SpyNote]

I'd say Penguin. It was such a letdown after Bare Trees, which is a perfect listen from beginning to end. From 1970 until 1974 starting with Kiln House, every other album seemed to be a dud (Future Games, Penguin, Heroes Are Hard to Find).

[becca]

You even liked the Mrs. Scarrot recitation at the end of Bare Trees? If I remember I do tend to stop at Dust. :laugh:

[UnwoundDreams]

Time - The band is dead without Stevie or Lindsey.

[SteveMacD]

Time - The band is dead without Stevie or Lindsey.
So, they were dead when Peter Green was in the band? They were dead when Bob Welch was in the band? Sorry, my Fleetwood Mac collection starts with the 1968 album (actually, it starts with "A Hard Road", which was the first pseudo-Fleetwood Mac album). There were a lot of records without Stevie and Lindsey, so I don't hold that against "Time", which seems to be the main reason people ultimately don't like it.

In fact, I'd MUCH rather have an album with Bekka Bramlett on lead vocals than Stevie Nicks when the latter is half a**ing it, like she did on "Tango In The Night" and "Behind The Mask".

[secret love]

So, they were dead when Peter Green was in the band? They were dead when Bob Welch was in the band? Sorry, my Fleetwood Mac collection starts with the 1968 album (actually, it starts with "A Hard Road", which was the first pseudo-Fleetwood Mac album). There were a lot of records without Stevie and Lindsey, so I don't hold that against "Time", which seems to be the main reason people ultimately don't like it.

In fact, I'd MUCH rather have an album with Bekka Bramlett on lead vocals than Stevie Nicks when the latter is half a**ing it, like she did on "Tango In The Night" and "Behind The Mask".

what's that word there...I'm guessing it's not "acting"...;)

I'm one of those weird people who actually doesn't mind Time now that I have listened to it. Winds of Change and Talkin' to my Heart I really like. And I think Bekka Bramlett's renditions of Don't Stop and Say You Love Me (available on YouTube) are just magic. In fact I prefer Bekka's version of Don't Stop to Stevie's (but Christine's version is still the best of course - can't wait for London 2013!).

I listened to a Time Fleetwood Mac playlist on Spotify - all the songs are there but they have been resequenced and occasionally interspersed with other Mac songs (I Believe my Time Ain't Long, It Takes Time, The Second Time) so maybe that helps me to like it as much as I do?

Let me say this: to me, Fleetwood Mac is just that - Mick Fleetwood and John McVie. For me the band lives or dies with Mick and John. You can take Stevie away and you can still have a great 3-man band. You can take Lindsey away and still have a great 3-piece with Mick, John and Stevie. Take away Buckingham Nicks and you still have the greatest rhythm section in modern history and great instrumental music. Look at the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band - they perform together really well.

So for me, Time is not some dark place in Fleetwood Mac's history. It is just another exciting, intriguing chapter - as the tour was named, Another Link in the Chain.

I believe originally I nominated Behind the Mask as the worst Fleetwood Mac album. I stand by that, but for me it is still a good album. BTM is not as good as Time...nor is it as cool as Extended Play if we are counting that song set too.

Best Mac albums are in my opinion -
1. Tusk
2. Mystery to Me
3. Rumours

[UnwoundDreams]

So, they were dead when Peter Green was in the band? They were dead when Bob Welch was in the band? Sorry, my Fleetwood Mac collection starts with the 1968 album (actually, it starts with "A Hard Road", which was the first pseudo-Fleetwood Mac album). There were a lot of records without Stevie and Lindsey, so I don't hold that against "Time", which seems to be the main reason people ultimately don't like it.

In fact, I'd MUCH rather have an album with Bekka Bramlett on lead vocals than Stevie Nicks when the latter is half a**ing it, like she did on "Tango In The Night" and "Behind The Mask".

Of course I know about Peter Green and Bob Welch; I'm not one of those gushy teenagers who can't name any songs outside of Rumours and can't name one band member apart from Stevie! I haven't listened to those eras in depth yet, I've heard "Oh Well", "Black Magic Woman" and "Sentimental Lady" and really like them. I just haven't got around to trying the albums yet (I'm trying to get hold of a copy of Say You Will, as I'm trying to get up to date before I see them in September). I'm not going to form an opinion on that era until I've properly listened to everything.

And I didn't mean by saying that the band is dead without Stevie or Lindsey, that Fleetwood Mac is no good without them and they are only good when they are leading the band. The original incarnation of FM and the revamped incarnation with Buckingham Nicks are two entirely different genres of music. I was referring to the pop era that BN brought in. My mistake, I didn't clarify, sorry.

And I have actually listened to Time, and I felt that the entire creative energy and passion that I'd heard in the previous albums (regardless of Stevie half a**ing it or not) was gone or significantly diminished. The only songs I found halfway decent were "Hollywood" and "Winds of Change". Apart from that, I felt that something was missing. Hence, I prefer the Buckingham Nicks era more because that 's the one I connect with more and I prefer their work. That's my opinion.

[Dex]

You even liked the Mrs. Scarrot recitation at the end of Bare Trees? If I remember I do tend to stop at Dust. :laugh:

I actually get a kick out of the ending track of Bare Trees! I can't really justify it, and Bob Welch has basically admitted that it was just a bunch of silliness, but it makes me smile. I like seeing a band not take itself too seriously.

Y'all who are saying Time is a worse album than BTM are crazy! :laugh: There is no way I'm drinking that kool-aid. Yes, BTM is cohesive, and yes it's basically the first time the band has sounded like a "band" since Rumours, but neither of those things negate the awfulness of it.

Time sounds like a weird mishmash of songs. I sort of picture some obscure American road-trip B-movie while listening to. It has kind of a mediocre-soundtrack vibe to it. But at least it's actually pleasant. I like things that are pleasant. ;)

BTM gets my vote all the way. Although I don't particularly enjoy any of FM's albums pre-Bob Welch, they are recognizably well-crafted, and I can't fault them just for being in a genre I'm not into.

[sanders8323]

I agree. I wonder if Lindsey's Time Bomb Town was about this era of the band?

How so, when this song preceded the Time era by about 10 years?

[secret love]

How so, when this song preceded the Time era by about 10 years?

This made me smile. :D