Which two albums represent Lindsey's best Fleetwood Mac work?

[MacShadowsBall]

Since I did one for Stevie in honor of her birthday, I thought I'd continue for Lindsey, Christine, and possibly the Pre-Rumours gang.

Pick 2 albums that you feel represent and showcases Lindsey Buckingham at his very best. :cool:

[Artemis]

Rumours and Tango, easily.

[HomerMcvie]

SYW got 3 votes, and '75 NOTHING?
That's bass ackwards!

[Ulpian]

I'm surprised at how well SYW is doing so far. I would've thought it'd have been a fight between Tusk, Rumours and TITN.
:D

[gssmith]

I voted for the white album and rumours. I love all his songs on those! Everyone of them. For Tusk and Mirage I thought his songs were by far the weakest, horrible. He did do a great job producing Stevie's songs for those albums though I guess he does get credit there. Its easy to see how jealousy tore them apart which is typical for a lot of musical relationships it seems. For Tango- Big Love is great and the tittle song is good, but the rest were just ok to blah. Even though I am a bigger Stevie fan for sure, he did carry Say You Will, but even those songs were sub par to the first two albums.

[Dex]

Rumours and '75 are flawless albums, but Tusk and SYW show Lindsey at his most unrestrained and interesting, so they get my vote. Mirage and Tango have just a touch too many clunkers for me. Sorry Oh Diane and Family Man! I know you were minor UK hits, but it's time to admit that you are just not very good songs.

[MacShadowsBall]

I'm curious about how TITN will do as it wasn't in play for Stevie and I imagine will do great for Christine. :cool:

[TrueFaith77]

Two words: Go Your Own Way

also: everything on Tusk

[louielouie2000]

SYW got 3 votes, and '75 NOTHING?
That's bass ackwards!

For me, Lindsey's songs from the '75 & Rumours albums are flawless... but those contributions are almost cliche and middle of the road compared to Lindsey's later works.

Mirage is Lindsey's low point, IMO. He's totally thumbing his nose at the backlash from his Tusk experiments by contributing utterly inoffensive & completely boring songs.

Tango is one of Fleetwood Mac's best albums, IMO... it's every bit as good of a pop album as Rumours & Mystery To Me. Oddly enough, when you look at the songwriters individually, they don't hold their own compared to their other albums.

In a strange twist of fate, I think Lindsey's best material is found on the 2 Mac albums where I feel Stevie's resides as well: Tusk & Say You Will. For me, those 2 albums are where Lindsey really flexes his creative muscle, and is probably most himself. Tusk is the band's masterpiece, IMO. In opposition to Mirage, I feel Say You Will is a terrible album, yet when you look at the songwriters individually, it's some of their best works of their careers.

[michelej1]

^ To me, Lindsey's Mirage work is not inoffensive. It's retro weird. For a 1982 audience, I don't think it was meant to be appealing. I think they were meant to find it odd and that it was intended to be noncommercial and uncooperative.

What Warner Bros. wanted from Lindsey was "Trouble" and he decided not to give them that and delivered cliches with a twist instead, but the subversion was less obvious (and less creative) than his Tusk oddness was.

By contrast, I think a song like "Steal Your Heart Away" is innocuous and safe. Inoffensive. Palatable in a way that I don think the Mirage offerings were ever meant to be.

The problem is, While I hear a different type of rebellion in Diane or Eyes, I think they're less complicated and original than his work on Tusk.

Michele

[Dex]

Agreed, Michele. I think people are too quick to make the leap from "I don't like this" to "Lindsey was intentionally kinda sucking" when it comes to Mirage. I think it absolutely was what he wanted to put out. The difference is that it just... wasn't very interesting.

I do have a soft spot for Book of Love though. That was the only not-Stevie Mirage song that I actually enjoyed for a good year into my Mac fandom.

[elle]

i will repeat what i already said here:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=1094461&postcount=49

however spectacular SHN and GYOW are (and MM, ISA, and NGBA and not half bad either ;) ), if you look at the body of work / overall creativity Lindsey was at his peak for Tusk and then again for SYW (well SYW peak was really in the late 90s).

and then again now, which started somewhere in 2010.

[GypsySorcerer]

Hmmm....

I don't think the white album represents his best work. "I'm So Afraid" is MUCH better live. "Blue Letter" is my favorite of his on the album, but he didn't write it, so.... Of course, his songs are Rumours are perfect. I think "Go Your Own Way" is their only "hit" I've never grown tired of, at one point or another. I could listen to that song 1000 times in a row, and it would still sound fresh to me.

I love and appreciate all of Lindsey's songs on Tusk. They're his most interesting batch of songs.

I don't think his songs on Mirage are as bad as some seem to think. "Empire State" isn't a favorite, but I like the rest. Even "Oh Diane." :eek:

I've always been partial to Tango. "Big Love" and the title track are great. "Caroline" has insipid lyrics, but I love the music and energy.

Lindsey's songs on SYW are much stronger than Stevie's, IMO. Lyrically, they're definitely among his best (I think "Peacekeeper" and "Red Rover" are especially poetic).

So I'm gong with SYW and Tusk. Rumours and Tango are very, very close.

[Neal]

Rumours and Tango, easily.

Ditto. :thumbsup:

[HomerMcvie]

Mirage is Lindsey's low point, IMO. He's totally thumbing his nose at the backlash from his Tusk experiments by contributing utterly inoffensive & completely boring songs.

Tango is one of Fleetwood Mac's best albums, IMO... it's every bit as good of a pop album as Rumours & Mystery To Me. Oddly enough, when you look at the songwriters individually, they don't hold their own compared to their other albums.

In a strange twist of fate, I think Lindsey's best material is found on the 2 Mac albums where I feel Stevie's resides as well: Tusk & Say You Will. For me, those 2 albums are where Lindsey really flexes his creative muscle, and is probably most himself. Tusk is the band's masterpiece, IMO. In opposition to Mirage, I feel Say You Will is a terrible album, yet when you look at the songwriters individually, it's some of their best works of their careers.
Mirage may not be "deep", but I'll never understand the disrespect it gets.
I LOVE Can't Go Back, Book of Love, and even Empire State!!!

Tango just sounds too 80's for me. I mean, I like it, but it doesn't sound like a BAND playing, it sounds like a computer playing the instruments. It's pop perfection, but as a musician, it leaves me cold.

Tusk is the masterpiece, but probably not to the casual fan. Rumours is the album that changed my life...I am who I am, and became who I am, all over being OBSESSED with that album, as a kid. So even though I rarely listen to it anymore, Rumours will always be my favorite.

Say You Will? Just Say You Won't. Too long, too many songs, too many songs that sound like solo songs - not FM songs. And the FM balance of Christine, gone....I think that's why they shouldn't put anything else out(other than maybe EP's).

[MikeVielhaber]

Agreed, Michele. I think people are too quick to make the leap from "I don't like this" to "Lindsey was intentionally kinda sucking" when it comes to Mirage. I think it absolutely was what he wanted to put out. The difference is that it just... wasn't very interesting.

I do have a soft spot for Book of Love though. That was the only not-Stevie Mirage song that I actually enjoyed for a good year into my Mac fandom.

For me, Stevie's songs are the only ones I don't like (Except "Gypsy"). I'm not too high on some of Christine's ("Love in Store" and "Hold Me" are great), but they're decent. Same with "Empire State" for Lindsey. But overall I like more Lindsey songs on the album than anyone else.

[Dex]

For me, Stevie's songs are the only ones I don't like (Except "Gypsy"). I'm not too high on some of Christine's ("Love in Store" and "Hold Me" are great), but they're decent. Same with "Empire State" for Lindsey. But overall I like more Lindsey songs on the album than anyone else.

I'm glad there's a difference of opinion, then. These songs were the product of hard work and it's reassuring that someone appreciates them. I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my head around the idea of anyone finding Oh Diane musically compelling. But, you know, diverse tapestry of life and all that. ;)

[bethelblues]

Though I know some of you may view it as the easy choice, I'm shocked more people haven't voted for Rumours. Has Lindsey ever really surpassed his work on that album?? Really??? Honestly, I don't think he's turned in three songs of as high caliber as Go Your Own Way, Never Going Back Again, and Second Hand News, three classics which have held up over time and feature stunning guitar work.

My view of Tango in the Night: fantastic instrumentation from Lindsey. The guitar work all-around is incredible, even on Seven Wonders and Isn't It Midnight. Big Love was his hit song. I love his musicianship on Tango and the Night and Family Man. But his lyrics on the other hand... BARF

I've written in the Say You Will thread about my thoughts on Lindsey's overproduction on a few songs, how he took the life out of Bleed To Love Her and Say Goodbye, how the band really should've learned from prior decisions (the reception of Tusk) and went for a more focused 10- or 11-track work.

Tusk is really Lindsey's baby. So I cannot not vote for that album, though I do think his experimentations are not always successful and I'm slightly bothered when he is labeled as the only true 'artist' of the band. I love what he did with the singular song Tusk (how great it worked in the TV series The Americans when stripped to its essence speaks to its tremendous groove and rhythmic power), The Ledge in capturing a different sound for the band, and What Makes You Think You're The One for his vocal ferocity. His production skills on Stevie's songs are probably at an all-time high as well: Sara is gorgeous and Beautiful Child one of the greatest (and most under-appreciated) Rock ballads.

So my vote actually matches how I feel about Stevie's best Fleetwood Mac work: Rumours and Tusk.

[Dex]

Though I know some of you may view it as the easy choice, I'm shocked more people haven't voted for Rumours. Has Lindsey ever really surpassed his work on that album?? Really???

Absolutely, yes.

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

[On Ice]

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

Other albums, especially Tusk, have other examples of Lindsey's brilliance, but he changed the course of his career in 1979 and decided not to make the classic sound again. His work has been stellar, but none of it is as good as these two first Fleetwood Mac albums. Part of me wishes he had kept to that meticulous way of writing, arranging and recording music. I think I read recently where Ken Calliat wanted to take Tusk into more of a musically perfect album than Rumours and with the quality of songs on the album, I can't help but wonder how they would have sounded if that direction had been taken.

[TrueFaith77]

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

Other albums, especially Tusk, have other examples of Lindsey's brilliance, but he changed the course of his career in 1979 and decided not to make the classic sound again. His work has been stellar, but none of it is as good as these two first Fleetwood Mac albums. Part of me wishes he had kept to that meticulous way of writing, arranging and recording music. I think I read recently where Ken Calliat wanted to take Tusk into more of a musically perfect album than Rumours and with the quality of songs on the album, I can't help but wonder how they would have sounded if that direction had been taken.

Brilliant defense of 75 and Rumours. Add Come to the list of ISA-redeux.

[bethelblues]

Absolutely, yes.

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

You know, that is the same reason people have given to Dreams not being one of Stevie's best songs, saying it's a perfect pop song but not representative of Stevie's best work. I think that sentiment is rooted in the fact that it is played so often it now seems stale, not fresh or alive anymore. As I've argued that that studio recording perhaps captures the three voices of the lead singers together better than any other song while also giving a nod to the earlier blues roots of the band, I have to also disagree with regard to Lindsey's songs. I don't want to reduce them down to whether they're pop or rock and roll or artistically successful or whatever, they are great songs and there is a reason they continue to be played today. I'm glad OnIce mentioned The Chain, which I forgot. Lindsey's guitar work on that song is notable and is as important to the searing power of the record as Stevie's lyrics. I welcome that Go Your Own Way, The Chain, Never Going Back Again, and Second Hand News are considered rock classics and I see them as among his best work, even if it's not considered the cool choice. While Lindsey wanted to separate himself from that sound and not limit himself, he wasn't always successful in subsequent albums, including Tusk. And I think Say You Will, though it may have some of his best songs in years, also demonstrates some of the drawbacks of Lindsey's vision when not balanced by other members in the band.

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

This is an excellent argument for the inclusion of Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey vocals are also in top shape on Crystal, and despite it being a Stevie song, I think his voice brings something to the song that she never could. Hmmm...Monday Morning, World Turning, I'm So Afraid (though more famous as a live performance than its studio version), Crystal, Blue Letter cover. He certainly came onto the scene big on this album, offering a strong contribution.

[MikeVielhaber]

Brilliant defense of 75 and Rumours. Add Come to the list of ISA-redeux.

You mean simply that there there's a big long guitar solo at the end of the song? Because otherwise it's not really an ISA rewrite or anything in any musical way.

[On Ice]

Lindsey vocals are also in top shape on Crystal, and despite it being a Stevie song, I think his voice brings something to the song that she never could.

How could I forget Crystal, shoot....:sorry:

Absolutely the right decision for him to sing lead on Crystal, the album would've been perfect with the inclusion of one more Stevie Lead, Crystal wasn't the song. Sorcerer coulda shouda woulda been a show stopping Fleetwood Mac classic as her white album voice would've nailed the song into orbit and a good complement to Rhiannon as she was way under utilized on the album and that first tour.

[bethelblues]

No worries. I forgot The Chain on Rumours in my first post.

I agree re: Stevie and I think we mentioned this in her respective albums thread, that she was underutilized on Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac. I was wondering if the band made her give Crystal to Lindsey or if they were just sharpening the original recording from Buckingham Nicks. That was my same reasoning why I couldn't put that album among her two best, even with Landslide and Rhiannon.

[KenB]

Absolutely, yes.

And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

[KenB]

Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

Also, I forgot to mention another point in favor of SYW: Though it's not part of the "official" album sequence, there's the beautiful version of Dylan's "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" on the deluxe edition, which I adore.

[elle]

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.
absolutely! :thumbsup:
Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.
some great thoughts here, and i generally agree with most of them.

however, he was not nearly as prolific as a songwriter during that time, as he became later in his career. maybe he was still getting into the whole songwriting thing? (that apparently Stevie has dragged him into kicking and screaming during BN era), and he created these gems you mention, but there were only few of them. during Tusk era, he really blossomed as a songwriter. i wonder whether he considered himself mostly guitarist, singer, arranger, producer before Tusk time? and after putting together all these brilliant songs on FM and Rumours, finally figured out songwriting works well for him as an outlet, and he really is a brilliant songwriter too?

Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.
i like your analysis. a lot. although i would maybe count some different SYW as stellar Lindsey songs (Murrow, Red Rover, BTLH, definitely Peacekeeper lyrics... and i would add the whole GOS1 because that was really the same hugely prolific, brilliant, and out-of-boundaries songwriting period for Lindsey).

Also, I forgot to mention another point in favor of SYW: Though it's not part of the "official" album sequence, there's the beautiful version of Dylan's "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" on the deluxe edition, which I adore.
i can't express how much i love his version, how beautifully he sings it, and how much he added with those so-lindsey guitar parts. <3 :thumbsup:

[McTrouble]

Tusk and Say You Will - would have made great Lindsey solo albums with just his stuff on them

[On Ice]

however, he was not nearly as prolific as a songwriter during that time, as he became later in his career. maybe he was still getting into the whole songwriting thing? (that apparently Stevie has dragged him into kicking and screaming during BN era), and he created these gems you mention, but there were only few of them. during Tusk era, he really blossomed as a songwriter. i wonder whether he considered himself mostly guitarist, singer, arranger, producer before Tusk time? and after putting together all these brilliant songs on FM and Rumours, finally figured out songwriting works well for him as an outlet, and he really is a brilliant songwriter too?

That's a really good point about Lindsey's songwriting, after Rumours he really seemed to go into high productivity with creating new music. When I think of the early 90's and how good Stevie sounded just around the time of the end of the Mask and Lindsey's stunning Out of The Cradle not to mention Christine being in a prolific period, we could have had another masterpiece of a Mac album, sadly it wasn't to be.

Fortunately for us, Lindsey found that second wind and has put together some of the best music of his career in the last 6 years. The most important factor I think is that he finally found that balance between experimentation and maintaining that appeal for the listener. I'm also a big Say You Will fan and think he did a fine job throughout. All that said, I'm still drawn back to '75 and Rumours, it can't be topped to these ears. :nod:

[Dex]

You know, that is the same reason people have given to Dreams not being one of Stevie's best songs, saying it's a perfect pop song but not representative of Stevie's best work. I think that sentiment is rooted in the fact that it is played so often it now seems stale, not fresh or alive anymore. As I've argued that that studio recording perhaps captures the three voices of the lead singers together better than any other song while also giving a nod to the earlier blues roots of the band, I have to also disagree with regard to Lindsey's songs.

I know it can sometimes be difficult to wrap your head around an opinion that differs so much from your own, so I can appreciate the need to try and justify it. But honestly, I don't hear Dreams on the radio much. Never have. Maybe it's the countries I've lived in or the stations I've listened to. But I have heard many Mac and Mac-adjacent songs on the radio far more than Dreams. When I got Rumours, Dreams was one of the few songs on the album I didn't really know. I still think it's overhyped, and I think much of the praise heaped upon it is applicable to many Mac recordings of that era. I like it, but I don't get why it's considered so darn special. ;)

You've mentioned here and elsewhere that many on this forum don't give Dreams its due credit, but I can't say I've seen that. It seems to be a universally loved song as far as I can tell.

I chose Say You Will and Tusk because I think there is so much more of Lindsey's genius on display in those albums than there is in the relatively narrow sonic confines of Rumours and the White Album. Radio play has nothing to do with it.

[KarmaContestant]

Tusk and Tango, easy-peasy.

[bethelblues]

I know it can sometimes be difficult to wrap your head around an opinion that differs so much from your own, so I can appreciate the need to try and justify it. But honestly, I don't hear Dreams on the radio much. Never have. Maybe it's the countries I've lived in or the stations I've listened to. But I have heard many Mac and Mac-adjacent songs on the radio far more than Dreams. When I got Rumours, Dreams was one of the few songs on the album I didn't really know. I still think it's overhyped, and I think much of the praise heaped upon it is applicable to many Mac recordings of that era. I like it, but I don't get why it's considered so darn special. ;)

You've mentioned here and elsewhere that many on this forum don't give Dreams its due credit, but I can't say I've seen that. It seems to be a universally loved song as far as I can tell.

I chose Say You Will and Tusk because I think there is so much more of Lindsey's genius on display in those albums than there is in the relatively narrow sonic confines of Rumours and the White Album. Radio play has nothing to do with it.

I really appreciated your post. Yeah, just wanted to justify my opinion so I'm not written off as ignorant for not choosing Lindsey's other albums. I mentioned Dreams as an example since I've certainly gotten that impression from reading this board. I think a few people mentioned it being overrated in the Stevie thread for her best two albums. In the US, as you know, it was FM's only number-one hit, so it's certainly recognized though I'm sure more by its chorus than the name of the song. I do understand why some people think it's gotten stale or shouldn't be performed every night, so that's why I defended the studio recording and raised the point that maybe some fans read Lindsey's Rumours songs the same way. So, yeah, I do appreciate Lindsey's creativity and strokes of genius, but I don't always agree with his decisions from small production choices to larger album concept issues. Like I said, I'm a fan of Red Rover and absolutely love Say Goodbye and Bleed to Love Her, though for the latter two I really think he took the life and passion out of the songs by speeding up Say Goodbye and overproducing Bleed to Love Her. You probably don't agree but it's certainly fun to debate back and forth.

[TerraRhiannon]

Without a doubt Tusk and Tango In The Night, in my opinion. :cool:

Oh I forgot that You and I and Family Man is on Tango in the Night.. I take that back. I would vote for Tusk and Rumours if I got to re-vote!

[TrueFaith77]

Without a doubt Tusk and Tango In The Night, in my opinion. :cool:

Oh I forgot that You and I and Family Man is on Tango in the Night.. I take that back. I would vote for Tusk and Rumours if I got to re-vote!

those two are my faves on titn (especially family man)! :shrug:

[KenB]

Like I said, I'm a fan of Red Rover and absolutely love Say Goodbye and Bleed to Love Her, though for the latter two I really think he took the life and passion out of the songs by speeding up Say Goodbye and overproducing Bleed to Love Her. You probably don't agree but it's certainly fun to debate back and forth.

I am not Dex, but I echo his sentiments and voted for the same two albums. I love both the live version and the studio version of Say Goodbye, for different reasons. I've heard several people here call the studio recording "sped up." Do we know that it was originally written to be slower? Or are we only calling it "sped up" after the fact, when in reality it's that Lindsey later decided to slow it down in concert? Is there an early recording of Say Goodbye that's played at a slower tempo? If there is, I'd love to hear it!

[Villavic]

I voted Tango because it was a hard time for the band, and not the best momento for Stevie (but a very good for Chris I think), and I think the álbum was a big success because of Lindsey's work in a great part.

[bethelblues]

I am not Dex, but I echo his sentiments and voted for the same two albums. I love both the live version and the studio version of Say Goodbye, for different reasons. I've heard several people here call the studio recording "sped up." Do we know that it was originally written to be slower? Or are we only calling it "sped up" after the fact, when in reality it's that Lindsey later decided to slow it down in concert? Is there an early recording of Say Goodbye that's played at a slower tempo? If there is, I'd love to hear it!

I'm not sure about the history behind Say Goodbye. Maybe someone knows why Lindsey slowed it down for his live version of the song? I called the studio version "sped up" in relation to his live performance, which I heard at a Fleetwood Mac show before I heard the original recording. In comparing the two, my feeling is the SYW recording doesn't capture what Lindsey brings to his live performances, which highlight a guitar part that has room to seep into the audience and really enforce the meaning of the song and its lyrics for me.

[michelej1]

^When they're live and standing in front of you it's one thing, because their expressions and delivery are part of the whole experience.

But when I am just listening to the studio version, I want a song, something I can hum, a melody, something on which the sentiment can grab on and stick. Something that stands on its own without a visual accompaniment. I think the faster version of the song fits those requirements better for me. So, I like the studio version more, for that reason.

Michele

[redtulip]

I meant to vote for Tusk and SYW, but somehow only managed to vote for Tusk, weird.

Anyway, of course Tusk because that really is a Lindsey masterpiece in my opinion. He really went outside the box and came into his own on that album and I love all of his songs on there. My favorite Lindsey FM song is The Ledge, plus many more of my top Lindsey FM songs are on there.

SYW is also a Lindsey masterpiece. Such a wide variety of songs on there from him and it also showed a growth in his songwriting abilities I think. Great guitar work, interesting lyrics.

I enjoy a lot of his other FM songs on the other albums as well, it's just that for me, Tusk and SYW are Lindsey at his most creative.

[MikeVielhaber]

^When they're live and standing in front of you it's one thing, because their expressions and delivery are part of the whole experience.

But when I am just listening to the studio version, I want a song, something I can hum, a melody, something on which the sentiment can grab on and stick. Something that stands on its own without a visual accompaniment. I think the faster version of the song fits those requirements better for me. So, I like the studio version more, for that reason.

Michele

I agree. For just listening, I much prefer the studio version.

[michelej1]

I was just reading a Caillat article (posted in the Caillat thread) and he was talking about Tusk:

“Lindsey decided he didn’t want to do another record like ‘Rumours.’ He was looking for a new self and he didn’t know who he wanted to be. … He wanted everything to sound grungy.

“That record was basically made under a hostage situation, if you will, loosely speaking. It was very strange, just very decadent,” including the nearly impossible task of recording the USC Trojan marching band at Dodger Stadium for the album’s title track (Mick Fleetwood’s brainchild).

“Actually, it’s a terrific album but at the time I had my doubts,” Caillat said. “I was so embarrassed of the sound. It was just so grungy. It took every bit of effort we could to make it clean and enjoyable.”

[shackin'up]

yeah, and that quote says it all. He was not amused with lindsey's vision on not only the arrangements, But also the soundengineering. Hè was a terriffic MOR technician, so he had hard times under Lindsey's dominance. But it was the only way for LB to get what he wanted. And in hindsight, it's a masterpiece. When Cailliat talks bad about LB, some was probably outside of normal behaviour, But a lot of criticism is fed by the fact that he did not understand him at the time, and not felt acknowledged. That's when you feel held hostage.

[shackin'up]

I voted for Rumours and Tusk. But I should have chosen Tusk and SYW. The reason why I chose Rumours, is in the fact that SYW could have been so much better if he used Twist of Fate, Wait for You and some other gems that didn't make it. The original GOS was a masterpiece a la Tusk.

[bluefox4000]

I picked Tusk. But then got stuck between Rumours and Tango. I love him on Rumours. He's got some great stuff on Tango.

So Tusk and a tie between Rumours and Tango.

Mick

[michelej1]

I think I find it really hard to compare songs on a good, better, best scale from era to era. It's hard for me to smack Tango up against SYW. They seem like completely different genres.

yeah, and that quote says it all. He was not amused with lindsey's vision on not only the arrangements, But also the soundengineering. Hè was a terriffic MOR technician, so he had hard times under Lindsey's dominance. But it was the only way for LB to get what he wanted. And in hindsight, it's a masterpiece. When Cailliat talks bad about LB, some was probably outside of normal behaviour, But a lot of criticism is fed by the fact that he did not understand him at the time, and not felt acknowledged. That's when you feel held hostage.

Let me jump on one word you used: technician. Stevie said she felt like a hostage during the Tusk recording and Lindsey was the Ayatollah Khomeini and, you know, if members of the BAND felt that Lindsey was taking them in a creative direction that they didn't favor, they had a right to resist and complain. They were the artists.

Ken Caillat wasn't a band member. He was a technician, an engineer, a producer, but ultimately an employee and so I don't really understand the "hostage" allusion coming from him. It wasn't Lindsey's job to mold his work into a Middle of the Road shape that Ken would not find too "grungy."

Michele

[GypsySorcerer]

The reason why I chose Rumours, is in the fact that SYW could have been so much better if he used Twist of Fate, Wait for You and some other gems that didn't make it. The original GOS was a masterpiece a la Tusk.

So true. I wish we would have gotten the original GOS, instead of the songs spread out of over 3 albums.

[KenB]

So true. I wish we would have gotten the original GOS, instead of the songs spread out of over 3 albums.

Do we know what the intended running order was for GOS? I know which songs were recorded for it, but I don't know Lindsey's exact track list.

[bethelblues]

^When they're live and standing in front of you it's one thing, because their expressions and delivery are part of the whole experience.

But when I am just listening to the studio version, I want a song, something I can hum, a melody, something on which the sentiment can grab on and stick. Something that stands on its own without a visual accompaniment. I think the faster version of the song fits those requirements better for me. So, I like the studio version more, for that reason.

Michele

Just want to clarify: I wasn't talking specifically about their expressions and delivery. I was too far back to read their expressions. For me it's the exact opposite. I prefer how the song sounds live, especially how the vocals do not feel as rushed as the studio recording. I don't pick up anything to hum from that version, since in my opinion Lindsey's lyrics do not linger over the listener the same way, the softness of his voice, the elongated phrasing. When I went back to SYW, I was surprised by the different feel musically of the song, which was much more severe than just a straight studio vs. live comparison.

[michelej1]

Lindsey's lyrics do not linger over the listener the same way, the softness of his voice, the elongated phrasing.

Yeah, I really hate that and it can seem phony to me. Having him and Stevie onstage appearing sincere is about the only thing that can salvage that kind of delivery for me. That's what I think he is trying to do with NGBA and it drives me batty.

I appreciate a lingering, nuanced delivery, but I need it in a song that has melody. I mean, I think of Christine's Calumney and it's out of this world. Her voice is like an old oak tree whose branches creek a little when they bend. She's going "torn the petals drop" and I feel, sense the resistance when you pluck something blooming from a living thing. Rip away a leaf from a vibrant stem that it doesn't want to leave, when you hurt it, just to make a point -- to prove that their love is gone.

I think she ought to win an Oscar for that delivery, really and Say Goodbye doesn't make me experience anything like that, especially not if the live version had been on the record. On the record, the fact that it's faster is an aid for me. Also, the fact that it is followed by Goodbye Baby. That sets a tone that I appreciate more than if the song had stood alone.

Michele

[bethelblues]

Funny you mentioned Never Going Back Again. I can agree with you for that song, which Lindsey's been performing in that manner for a long time, right? When was the last time he performed it closer to the sound of the studio version? I also see your point of how the song fits on the album before Goodbye Baby. I just think Lindsey's approach for Say Goodbye works for the song, and Stevie's presence totally helps and emphasizes the meaning. But maybe it all comes down to me having heard the live version before hearing the studio recording, which made me appreciate Lindsey's interpretation of the song more for the former.

[GypsySorcerer]

Do we know what the intended running order was for GOS? I know which songs were recorded for it, but I don't know Lindsey's exact track list.

I'm not sure if we know what the official tracklisting was intended to be. I think I remember "Someone's Gotta Change Your Mind" was supposed for the opening track, but that could be my imagination. Gerald, maybe you remember?

[moon]

Tusk, and Mirage.

Tusk, you know, there's nothing new to say...

I didn't choose Rumours or '75 Fleetwood Mac because they're representative for Lindsey, Chris and Stevie as songwriters and musicians. But, Tusk is THE album of Lindsey.
About Tango, yes, he was one of the producers, but there's something that really never convinced me about it.
And Mirage is my second choice because he did a great job with Tusk and Law & Order, and then with Go Insane. I know his songs in Mirage are not the most popular, but they have interesting arrangements, and with all the demos that exist, you can prove that. I can't explain it better... :sorry:
Regards

[aleuzzi]

Tusk is an obvious choice. I picked Rumours because I love all of his material on it, and his instrumentation and arranging skills elsewhere are also excellent. But I could have picked SYW or Tango, both of which show LB stretching out and covering a lot of musical moods, unlike on Rumours where his three songs seem like attractive, athletic biological brothers.

[dontlookdown]

this was a hard one.
because Lindsey has his best work on every album.
he's always been MVP in FM.

Tusk is the obvious frontrunner. After that, hard to say.

[michelej1]

Funny you mentioned Never Going Back Again. I can agree with you for that song, which Lindsey's been performing in that manner for a long time, right? When was the last time he performed it closer to the sound of the studio version?

For me, I thought NGBA was a little better on the One Man Show tour, though not close to the studio version. I thought the pace was a little tighter in his last solo outing.

Michele

[moon]

this was a hard one.
because Lindsey has his best work on every album.

So true! If we go to the conclusions, this is the truth.

For me, I thought NGBA was a little better on the One Man Show tour, though not close to the studio version. I thought the pace was a little tighter in his last solo outing.

Michele

Agree. Some of his other performances in OMS are amazing (Bleed to Love Her, Cast Away Dreams...). NGBA sounds different, and I love it! It's maybe a good example where you can see that the live version is better than the studio version. We can discuss that.
Regards!

[MacShadowsBall]

Well I voted for Rumours and Tusk. Rumours has a solid three songs and Tusk is basically all Lindsey's idea/masterpiece, even his working/production on Stevie/Christine songs. Tusk isn't my favorite album and Lindsey's songs aren't ever my favorite, but this isn't about "favorites" but about what is "best". Tango in the Night was high on my Lindsey best list, as he crafted a whole unique sound throught that album. I almost went with Rumours and Tango. :cool:

[michelej1]

Well I voted for Rumours and Tusk. Rumours has a solid three songs and Tusk is basically all Lindsey's idea/masterpiece, even his working/production on Stevie/Christine songs.

I agree. It seems to me that the Christine and Stevie songs on Tusk wouldn't easily fit onto another album. I thought they were all compatible with Tusk's unique vision.

Well, Think About Me is an exception. I do think that that song could easily slip onto any FM album without seeming out of place.

Michele

[MacShadowsBall]

Tusk gets first place and Rumours gets second, although Say You Will made a strong attempt at second. :cool: