Lindsey Buckingham Talks Fleetwood Mac Tour, New EP - Rolling Stone

[kak125]

Lindsey Buckingham Talks Fleetwood Mac Tour, New EP
'Stevie and I have probably more of a connection now than we have in years'

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/lindsey-buckingham-talks-fleetwood-mac-tour-new-ep-20130507/1000x600/fleetwood-600-1367868190.jpg
It's been exactly a decade since Fleetwood Mac released a full album, but that hasn't stopped a new generation of fans from discovering the band. "We're doing the best business we've done in 20 years," guitarist Lindsey Buckingham tells Rolling Stone a few hours before the Tulsa, Oklahoma stop on the band's latest tour. "There seems to be a cyclical re-igniting of interests, and there's certainly a lot more young people out there than three years ago."
Months before they started tour rehearsal, the band cut a four-song EP titled Extended Play with producer Mitchell Froom. "When we finally decided this was going to be the year we were going to tour again, I thought it would be great to cut some new stuff," says Buckingham. "I knew we wouldn't have time to cut a new album. Stevie [Nicks] was still caught up in her solo thing, but I got John [McVie] and Mick [Fleetwood] over from Hawaii. They played their asses off. It was a great experience."
Stevie Nicks arrived at the sessions towards the end, and Buckingham presented her with "Sad Angel." "I wrote that song for Stevie," he says. "She always had to fight for everything. She was coming off a solo album and was in the process of reintegrating herself mentally in the band, and we're all warriors with a sword in one sort or another. She and I have known each other since high school. So I just wrote, 'Sad Angel have you come to fight the war/We fall to earth together, the crowd calling out for more
Like many of the group's greatest songs, "Sad Angel" reflects on Lindsey and Stevie's complex relationship. "All these years later, we are still writing songs that are dialogues for each other," he says. "That was part of the appeal of Rumours, and of the group in general . . . Of all the things we cut, 'Sad Angel' was, for lack of a better term, the most Fleetwood Mac-y. It was really kind of the best stuff that we have done in a while."
They also recorded "Without You," a song that's roughly 40 years old. "Stevie and I had a little disagreement over when it was written," Buckingham says. "It definitely predates our involvement in Fleetwood Mac. I believe it was written when we were in the process of culling material for a possible second Buckingham-Nicks album, before we were dropped by Polydor. She claims it was written earlier, but I'm not so sure. But it's a very sweet song that really harkens back to a time when we were far more innocent. She's writing to me and it's about our relationship, when we'd only been together for a very short time."
Stevie Nicks says that she rediscovered the song on YouTube. "I'm not really sure how it resurfaced," says Buckingham. "She brought it in one day and she brought it by my house. John and Mick didn't really work on that. There's kind of an appropriateness in doing something that predates Fleetwood Mac, because at this stage in time Stevie and I have more of a connection than we've had for a while. That's a nice thing."
"Sad Angel" and "Without You" are performed every night on Fleetwood Mac's ongoing world tour, but the vast majority of the set is devoted to songs from the group's deep catalog. "Creating a set list is like making a running order for an album," says Buckingham. "Certain things get pitted against one another that make more sense. One song sets another one off, or it might diminish it. You're just constantly looking for the next thing that's gonna make sense in a particular place."
The show begins with "Second Hand News," the kick-off track to band's 1976 landmark album Rumours. "It seemed like the obvious choice as the opener," says Buckingam. "There are certain touchstones that you always do. When you've been around for a while, you realize there's a body of work you're going to rely on every time. You're not going to reinvent the wheel every time you go out, because that would disappoint the audience."
After "Second Hand News," the group keeps the Rumours theme going with "The Chain" and "Dreams." "You get that out of the way," says Buckingham. "Then we do 'Sad Angel' and then we're segueing into various twists and turns from there."
A frenetic "Rhiannon" segues into four straight Tusk songs: "Not That Funny," "Tusk," "Sisters of the Moon" and "Tusk." "After the success of Rumours, we were in this zone with this certain scale of success," Buckingham says. "By that point the success detaches from the music, and the success becomes about the success. The phenomenon becomes about the phenomenon. Warner Bros. would have very much liked to have seen a Rumours II. There was a need on my part – and the band as well, but I was certainly the instigator – to kind of subvert that notion."
Tusk was a huge bestseller, but the songs were less commercial, failing to live up to the enormous sales of Rumours. "We didn't want to be painted into a corner," Buckingham says. "If you want to be an artist in the long run, it isn't necessarily a good axiom to repeat formulas over and over until they're used up."
The rest of the show focuses on enormous hits like "Gypsy," "Go Your Own Way" and "Gold Dust Woman," but "Don't Stop" is the sole number written by former Mac keyboardist/vocalist Christine McVie. "On the last tour we did 'Don't Stop' and 'Say You Love Me,'" says Buckingham. "But it's hard to sustain her presence. There's no real reason to do it. She had some great songs, but it becomes a little schizoid to go out there and try to recreate her thing."
Christine McVie did participate in Fleetwood Mac's 1997 comeback album The Dance, but she left after the tour. "She was just in need of a radical life change," says Buckingham. "She pretty much burned all her bridges in Los Angeles. She sold her house, ended her relationship, quit the band and moved back to England. It was a fairly sweeping set of changes, and something she needed to do for her reasons, though I'm not particularly clear on what those were."
The group took a break after McVie quit, but regrouped in 2002 to begin work on Say You Will. "We all miss her, and we miss the equation that fivesome made," Buckingham says. "It's a different equation with the four. But for me, it actually opened up an opportunity to be a little more myself onstage. When you divide the material more or less down the middle, it gives me more of a chance to be the guy, and to be the kind of presence and energy I am onstage."
The adjustment has been more difficult for Stevie Nicks. "She misses the female camaraderie," says Buckingham. "So it's been a double-edged sword for her. But as the band evolved as a four-piece, it became less relevant to put songs of hers in there. We haven't felt a need to do that, even though she had some hits. It's just . . . it is what it is. The band is a different band now. On the other hand, 'Don't Stop' is just one of those anthems with a strong message. That's why Bill Clinton latched onto it. It's a very effective encore song for us."
The show wraps with "Say Goodbye," the only song of the night drawn from the group's 2003 LP Say You Will. "As I said, Stevie and I have probably more of a connection now than we have in years," says Buckingham. "You can feel it. It's tangible on stage. In many ways, that song is the embodiment of that. When you look at 'Without You,' it's Stevie writing a song about me when everything was before us and all those illusions were intact. 'Say Goodbye' was written 10 years ago, when most of our experience together was behind us. Part of those illusions had fallen away."
Much of their story may be behind them, but Lindsey and Stevie are still taking the stage together night after night and collaborating on new material. "It was difficult for years to get complete closure," Buckingham says. "There was never any time to not be together. It was kind of like picking the scab off an open wound again and again. That's part of the legacy of the band. But 'Say Goodbye' is a very sweet song, and it's about her: 'Once you said goodbye to me/Now I say goodbye to you.' It took a long time. All those illusions have fallen away, but that doesn't mean that there isn't resolve and hope and belief in the future in a different context. That's really what the song is about, and we end the set with just the two of us singing that song."

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/lindsey-buckingham-talks-fleetwood-mac-tour-new-ep-20130507

[WildHearted]

"She pretty much burned all her bridges in Los Angeles. She sold her house, ended her relationship, quit the band and moved back to England. It was a fairly sweeping set of changes, and something she needed to do for her reasons, though I'm not particularly clear on what those were."

I find it hard to believe that 15 years after the fact, Lindsey's still in the dark on why Chris is gone. It seems fairly clear (and well documented) that she left because she hated touring / was over the whole lifestyle / wanted to go home /was having panic attacks, etc. Yet he seems to insinuate there's still some sort of a mystery involved or some piece of the puzzle that's still missing.

Also the fact that they seem so concerned about when Without You was written is really amusing to me - that seems like such a nonfactor in the grand scheme of things. I guess they can't function without having SOMETHING to disagree about. :lol:

[HejiraNYC]

I find it hard to believe that 15 years after the fact, Lindsey's still in the dark on why Chris is gone. It seems fairly clear (and well documented) that she left because she hated touring / was over the whole lifestyle / wanted to go home /was having panic attacks, etc. Yet he seems to insinuate there's still some sort of a mystery involved or some piece of the puzzle that's still missing.


Well, you assume that it's just that simple. I suspect (or have heard) that there were other factors involved that had nothing to do with quality of life. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter; Christine has a right to do what Christine wants and it's nobody else's business.

[kak125]

stevie and lindsey remind me so much of my parents sometimes. they totally have that love/hate relationship going on even if it isnt as apparent now as it was back in the day. lol i can totally picture them bickering over the date for when without you was written for days on end - ha! i wonder how many times lindsey reminds her that she thought sad angel was said angel - lol!!

[michelej1]

I find it hard to believe that 15 years after the fact, Lindsey's still in the dark on why Chris is gone. It seems fairly clear (and well documented) that she left because she hated touring / was over the whole lifestyle / wanted to go home /was having panic attacks, etc. Yet he seems to insinuate there's still some sort of a mystery involved or some piece of the puzzle that's still missing.



Oh my goodness. He's an absolute nut. Fifteen years, man. Let it go.

Michele

[michelej1]

Well, you assume that it's just that simple. I suspect (or have heard) that there were other factors involved that had nothing to do with quality of life. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter; Christine has a right to do what Christine wants and it's nobody else's business.

Oh, it's my business.

Bottom line is she saw them in Los Angeles. She's up to appearing with them in the UK, so I don't think the visit went badly and I have to be content with that. If she were still in the United States, she might still be in retirement, but she wouldn't be as out of touch with them as she has been all of this time. There would have been conversations and rapprochement and I am sorry that there's been distance instead. If this year has changed that a little, I'm grateful.

Michele

[michelej1]

stevie and lindsey remind me so much of my parents sometimes. they totally have that love/hate relationship going on even if it isnt as apparent now as it was back in the day. lol i can totally picture them bickering over the date for when without you was written for days on end - ha! i wonder how many times lindsey reminds her that she thought sad angel was said angel - lol!!

I know the woman thinks Lindsey is a bad lyricist but how bad would he have to be to write, "hello, hello said angel."

Michele

[WildHearted]

Well, you assume that it's just that simple. I suspect (or have heard) that there were other factors involved that had nothing to do with quality of life. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter; Christine has a right to do what Christine wants and it's nobody else's business.

I wasn't trying to imply that it was actually that simple - merely that if there was anything else factoring into it, you'd think Lindsey would know by now. Or at the very least not be publicly wondering about it these fifteen years later.

[WildHearted]

I know the woman thinks Lindsey is a bad lyricist but how bad would he have to be to write, "hello, hello said angel."

Michele

Well, if she thought the person's name was Angel, then it might not have been so bad.

"Hello, hello," said Angel, "have you come to fight the war?"

[michelej1]

I wasn't trying to imply that it was actually that simple - merely that if there was anything else factoring into it, you'd think Lindsey would know by now. Or at the very least not be publicly wondering about it these fifteen years later.

Oh, he knows. He's insane. He's just . . . it's like the Sheryl Crow thing. Sometimes he just says things to provoke, for his own personal pleasure. This is one of those things that has obviously gone onto his, "They tried to make me use a guitar pick" list of grievances that he will never get over in this lifetime.

You know when they pick a new dalai lama they have to go and find who he is by testing the reincarnated person to see what he knows and recognizes from his past life. I could easily find the reincarnated Lindsey, just by asking him about 5 questions.

Michele

[michelej1]

Well, if she thought the person's name was Angel, then it might not have been so bad.

"Hello, hello," said Angel, "have you come to fight the war?"


That's a good point. Although heaven help me if Lindsey writes a song about a woman named "Angel." I have suffered enough.

Michele

[kak125]

lol the worst is that i walk around my house at night singing hello, hello, said angel -ha ha!!

[redtulip]

I wasn't trying to imply that it was actually that simple - merely that if there was anything else factoring into it, you'd think Lindsey would know by now. Or at the very least not be publicly wondering about it these fifteen years later.

I don't think he's wondering, he just said he's not clear. I'm sure he only said that because he doesn't feel it's his place to air her business.

[WildHearted]

That's a good point. Although heaven help me if Lindsey writes a song about a woman named "Angel." I have suffered enough.

Michele

At this point we could probably construct a Stevie/Lindsey compilation album just of songs that center around angels.

[elle]

Oh, it's my business.

Bottom line is she saw them in Los Angeles. She's up to appearing with them in the UK, so I don't think the visit went badly and I have to be content with that. If she were still in the United States, she might still be in retirement, but she wouldn't be as out of touch with them as she has been all of this time. There would have been conversations and rapprochement and I am sorry that there's been distance instead. If this year has changed that a little, I'm grateful.

Michele

maybe Christine is rebuilding her bridges? ;)

[Andy Man]

I find Lindsey's comments on Christine in this article quite interesting. I totally agree with him that the four-piece Fleetwood Mac is a different band than the classic line up, in many ways. Also, it seems as if he is saying that the reason they have not covered many Christine songs is that she had "her own thing" which would be stupid for the band to try and re-create. This seems to be a sign of respect from the band - really agree with him there.

I do however think it's interesting he stated that she "had a few hits" or "some good songs" haha. She had more than a few hits - more than Lindsey has ever had in Fleetwood Mac haha.

It's very evident from Lindsey's remarks that he and Christine are not that close at all. But I do get the impression that he does respect her and would welcome her back if she wanted to do anything with the band.

[Kubrick2788]

"As I said, Stevie and I have probably more of a connection now than we have in years," says Buckingham. "You can feel it. It's tangible on stage."

Especially when Silver Springs comes across as more conciliatory than angry/gritty. Though this relationship breakthrough has made Say Goodbye just a little sweeter. And Stevie seems to be more into it than the SYW tour performance.

[vivfox]

A frenetic "Rhiannon" segues into four straight Tusk songs: "Not That Funny," "Tusk," "Sisters of the Moon" and "Tusk."


How cool is it that they've dropped Not That Funny to play Tusk twice?

[MikeVielhaber]

How cool is it that they've dropped Not That Funny to play Tusk twice?

You mean "Sara"?

[elle]

How cool is it that they've dropped Not That Funny to play Tusk twice?

:lol: no, you need to re-read it - this one's for me - dropping Sara and playing Tusk once again instead. :D

[Hellolovely]

Lindsey's words vs actions have always seemed rather schizophrenic when it comes to Christine. They always appeared pretty close, at least physically, - a lot of pictures of them embracing etc and being rather "intimate" both at shoots and during shows. He has also worked with her on solo projects ( her 84 album where he even went all the way to Switzerland to play on few tracks) and when she recorded "can't help falling in love". His comments to the press however, at least in recent years, have been less than friendly - to me it comes across as him seeming to feel hurt and betrayed....a little extreme considering the circumstance. I've always wondered if perhaps something went on between them which is why he is so bitter about her leaving the band and subsequently really disengaging herself from the whole "Mac" family including him? I just think he appears to feel much more hurt about it all than, say, John or Mick do.

[michelej1]

I do however think it's interesting he stated that she "had a few hits" or "some good songs" haha. She had more than a few hits - more than Lindsey has ever had in Fleetwood Mac haha.


It's the same thing that Christine said about him when he left the band. She said that other than GYOW she and Stevie really had all of the hits.
Michele

[Kubrick2788]

"She said that other than GYOW she and Stevie really had all of the hits."

Well...that's true.

[aleuzzi]

It's the same thing that Christine said about him when he left the band. She said that other than GYOW she and Stevie really had all of the hits.
Michele

It's part of the business of justifying the existence of the foursome that they downplay the contributions of whoever of the five is to there. I mean, I cold just imagine the comments Lindsey and Chris would make if they were touring without Stevie. That said, Lindsey's comments are less accurate than Chris's were. She had A LOT of hits....

I do appreciate Steie's loyalty to Chris. She genuinely misses her and hasn't wavered in her appreciation of her former band mate.

[elle]

"She said that other than GYOW she and Stevie really had all of the hits."

Well...that's true.

Tusk, SHN, Big Love, NGBA... on some RS lists they had songs like Monday Morning among 200 classic rock songs of all times, which was kinda surprising to me. :shrug:


that said, Christine was the one with by far the biggest number of top 50 hits among the 3 of them, so for him to say she had a few minor hits or whatever he said is either completely ridiculous or it had to be tongue-in-cheek.

[Jondalar]

I think she also included Big Love, too.

It's part of the business of justifying the existence of the foursome that they downplay the contributions of whoever of the five is to there. I mean, I cold just imagine the comments Lindsey and Chris would make if they were touring without Stevie.

I do appreciate Steie's loyalty to Chris. She genuinely misses her and hasn't wavered in her appreciation of her former band mate.

There has to be some anger toward Chris. She, in a way, broke up the band. The winning formula is gone.

[MikeVielhaber]

Tusk, SHN, Big Love, NGBA... on some RS lists they had Monday Morning among 200 classic rock songs of all times, which was kinda surprising to me. :shrug:

And "I'm So Afraid" a concert staple to this day that gets mentioned in every concert review.

[elle]

And "I'm So Afraid" a concert staple to this day that gets mentioned in every concert review.

it was never a hit though. it's also not something you hear on classic rock radio to this day or listed in various top 100 best songs of all times.

[MikeVielhaber]

it was never a hit though. it's also not something you hear on classic rock radio to this day or listed in various top 100 best songs of all times.

I'm just saying, it's a big hit in concert. Isn't that what she's talking abut? How it would affect their live show?

[elle]

I'm just saying, it's a big hit in concert. Isn't that what she's talking abut> How it would effect their live show?

yeah you are right.

the way Lindsey said it in that new interview though (and again, i can't see how could that be anything but tongue-in-cheek... but than again, there are burned bridges and all that :laugh:), was different i guess from what he said some time in the past when he said that many Christine's hits didn't necessarily translate that well on stage... i think? i'm just going from memory of a something i read here.

[Jondalar]

It's the same thing that Christine said about him when he left the band. She said that other than GYOW she and Stevie really had all of the hits.
Michele

Lindsey's great production is responsible for a lot of those hits.

[michelej1]

It's part of the business of justifying the existence of the foursome that they downplay the contributions of whoever of the five is to there. I mean, I cold just imagine the comments Lindsey and Chris would make if they were touring without Stevie. That said, Lindsey's comments are less accurate than Chris's were. She had A LOT of hits....



It's not less accurate. Lindsey didn't say she never had any hits or that she only had one. And I don't think it's really justifying the existence of the foursome (or in Christine's case the sextet that remained). I think that they care/cared that the other is gone and have some unresolved feelings.

If someone left and they were all right with their leaving, like if someone left for health reasons, then neither would make comments like that.

Lindsey's great production is responsible for a lot of those hits.

And she knew that when she said it.

Michele

[elle]

talking about hits, i was [pleasantly] surprised that Gold Dust Woman and Landslide seem to be 2 SN songs that got by far the biggest recognition reaction as they started during these shows. and GDW was never a single or a "legitimate" hit right? kinda like The Chain or SHN.

it's almost like many of the songs that were not released as singles when the albums first came out were actually better and had more staying power than many that were.

[michelej1]

Oh, looking at the comments, she actually credited Lindsey with two hits:

"Every concert so far has been a winner,” says McVie sounding enthusiastic, “and we’re actually quite in shock ourselves of the apparent lack of concern that Lindsey’s not on the stage.

“Between me and Stevie we have the bulk of the hit songs and in reality Lindsey only had two hits. Go Your Own Way and Big Love. The rest of the hits, in the cold light of day, were actually mine and Stevie’s.”

Michele

[johnnystorms]

It's part of the business of justifying the existence of the foursome that they downplay the contributions of whoever of the five is to there. I mean, I cold just imagine the comments Lindsey and Chris would make if they were touring without Stevie. That said, Lindsey's comments are less accurate than Chris's were. She had A LOT of hits....

I do appreciate Steie's loyalty to Chris. She genuinely misses her and hasn't wavered in her appreciation of her former band mate.

yeah, like.. "what happened to the audience?"

[WildHearted]

Tusk, SHN, Big Love, NGBA... on some RS lists they had songs like Monday Morning among 200 classic rock songs of all times, which was kinda surprising to me. :shrug:


that said, Christine was the one with by far the biggest number of top 50 hits among the 3 of them, so for him to say she had a few minor hits or whatever he said is either completely ridiculous or it had to be tongue-in-cheek.

Well, it depends on what you call a 'hit.' The entire Rumours album except for a few songs gets played constantly on the radio around here, but I'm not sure that any of the songs that weren't released as singles actually count as having charted, regardless of their airplay. At least, I can't find them. So another thing to consider is that Chris often had more of her songs released as singles than the others did (probably because her songs were good single material and were likely hits, as was proven), so they would be listed on the charts whereas songs that weren't released as singles but are still played a bunch and would be considered "hits" in the mind of the general public don't appear on the charts.

Hits on the Billboard 100 for the Rumours lineup divide up like this:


Christine
Everywhere -14
Little Lies - 4
Love In Store - 22
Hold Me - 4
Think About Me - 20
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Don't Stop - 3
Say You Love Me - 11
Over My Head - 20

Stevie
Seven Wonders - 19
Gypsy - 12
Fireflies - 60
Sisters of the Moon - 86
Sara - 7
Dreams - 1
Rhiannon - 11

Lindsey
Go Your Own Way - 10
Tusk - 8
Big Love - 5
Family Man - 90

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.

[BombaySapphire3]

Well, it depends on what you call a 'hit.' The entire Rumours album except for a few songs gets played constantly on the radio around here, but I'm not sure that any of the songs that weren't released as singles actually count as having charted, regardless of their airplay. At least, I can't find them. So another thing to consider is that Chris often had more of her songs released as singles than the others did (probably because her songs were good single material and were likely hits, as was proven), so they would be listed on the charts whereas songs that weren't released as singles but are still played a bunch and would be considered "hits" in the mind of the general public don't appear on the charts.

Hits on the Billboard 100 for the Rumours lineup divide up like this:


Christine
Everywhere -14
Little Lies - 4
Love In Store - 22
Hold Me - 4
Think About Me - 20
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Don't Stop - 3
Say You Love Me - 11
Over My Head - 20

Stevie
Seven Wonders - 19
Gypsy - 12
Fireflies - 60
Sisters of the Moon - 86
Sara - 7
Dreams - 1
Rhiannon - 11

Lindsey
Go Your Own Way - 10
Tusk - 8
Big Love - 5
Family Man - 90

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.

Save Me reached number 33 on the Hot 100 and As Long As You Follow almost cracked the top 40 so that makes it 10 for Christine.

[WildHearted]

Save Me reached number 33 on the Hot 100 and As Long As You Follow almost cracked the top 40 so that makes it 10 for Christine.

Right, but I was talking Rumours line-up. That wasn't with the Rumours line-up.

[bethelblues]

I agree, it's hard to distinguish what exactly we consider a hit. In my mind, it's purely performance on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 Chart (though interestingly the band has seen slightly different results in the U.K., one example being Isn't It Midnight). I think it's very clear that Lindsey wrote three hit songs (Christine forgot Tusk in her interview response, though that could have been intentional). It's also clear that the majority of Fleetwood Mac's hits came from Christine, who was the primary force for the pop sound of the band, beginning with Over My Head. That being said, to Stevie's credit, when her solo material is taken account of in addition to her Fleetwood Mac hits (including the band's only number one), she's clearly the most successful and visible of the writers. And arguably, it is her songs that are the most iconic, again fitting the most dominant personality of the band--a position that gave Stevie more power following Rumours and Tusk. Had Silver Springs been written later on, it would've never been dropped.

And speaking of Silver Springs, that one and the now omnipresent Landslide became hits over time and are probably the most played of Fleetwood Mac's songs today (along with Go Your Own Way, Dreams, and Rhiannon, and Say You Love Me and You Make Loving Fun from Christine). So I'd point those two out, as I feel they lie slightly in the middle, as they were eventually released as singles and weren't hits when they were first written.

As for other songs, there are certainly perceived 'hits', or what the band would call must-play songs that weren't singles. There's the band's total effort The Chain. Lindsey's are Secondhand News and Never Going Back Again. Slightly behind those two is I'm So Afraid, which, please correct me if I'm wrong, is much more recognized as a concert performance than its studio recording. Stevie has Gold Dust Woman, which actually does get radio time. And probably the only other Christine song not mentioned already, Songbird. I'm actually surprised that one isn't really played on the radio, especially by the Adult Contemporary stations. But maybe I'm a little unclear of whether radios can play non-singles or what the procedure is. I could see quite a few nightly programs eating up Songbird if it was ever requested.

[michelej1]

the way Lindsey said it in that new interview though (and again, i can't see how could that be anything but tongue-in-cheek... but than again, there are burned bridges and all that :laugh:), was different i guess from what he said some time in the past

Yes. Now, it's more along the lines of, "she's not here to do them justice and we can't recreate her style." Which is, I guess, what they told her because she told Mojo that she thinks they tried to do her songs and couldn't perfect them. So, that's why she concluded that only Don't Stop and World Turning were in the setlist, because they couldn't get the others right.

Michele

[michelej1]

Stevie's Landslide and Silver Springs became hits over time and are probably the most played of Fleetwood Mac's songs today, along with Go Your Own Way, Dreams, and Rhiannon. So I'd point those two out, as I feel they lie slightly in the middle, as they were eventually released as singles and weren't hits when they were first written.



And you can give Stevie extra compensation, since Dreams went to #1. But actually, they're a very balanced trio, all things considered.

Michele

[Jondalar]

And you can give Stevie extra compensation, since Dreams went to #1. But actually, they're a very balanced trio, all things considered.

Michele

Stevie gets extra points because Landslide is their most popular song and soon to be their only platinum song.

[bethelblues]

Yes. Now, it's more along the lines of, "she's not here to do them justice and we can't recreate her style." Which is, I guess, what they told her because she told Mojo that she thinks they tried to do her songs and couldn't perfect them. So, that's why she concluded that only Don't Stop and World Turning were in the setlist, because they couldn't get the others right.

Michele

That is true. Wasn't that the interview she got her songs mixed up and said they were doing You Make Loving Fun rather than Say You Love Me, and that they weren't quite getting it? I remember reading it.

They are a balanced trio: Christine = pop relevancy. Lindsey = sound and direction of the group. Stevie = the most talented songwriter, and I'd argue the writer of their most lasting and uniquely Fleetwood Mac songs.

Yes, that's how I read it from my other post, and probably how the band sees it:
Number One Hit = Dreams, I bet it burned Lindsey that Stevie got the one and only number one. But in the long-term, obviously, a number-one hit doesn't mean your song will hold up. How many pop acts fade into obscurity? Even Mariah Carey with her 18 number-ones has had trouble selling concert tickets and has struggled to stay relevant. I'm just glad Fleetwood Mac was able to get one.
Hits = Top 20 on U.S. Billboard Hot 100 Chart
Gradual Hits over Time, eventually singles = Landslide, Silver Springs
'Perceived Hits'/Non-singles = I still wonder about Songbird---does anyone hear that song on the radio??? It seems like perfect Adult Contemporary material. I'm not sure if non-singles cannot be played, but then Gold Dust Woman appears on classic rock stations.

[bombaysaffires]

Oh, he knows. He's insane. He's just . . . it's like the Sheryl Crow thing. Sometimes he just says things to provoke, for his own personal pleasure. This is one of those things that has obviously gone onto his, "They tried to make me use a guitar pick" list of grievances that he will never get over in this lifetime.

You know when they pick a new dalai lama they have to go and find who he is by testing the reincarnated person to see what he knows and recognizes from his past life. I could easily find the reincarnated Lindsey, just by asking him about 5 questions.

Michele

^ This. Thanks for making me laugh out loud.

[shackin'up]

And you can give Stevie extra compensation, since Dreams went to #1. But actually, they're a very balanced trio, all things considered.

Michele

Dreams was NOT #1 in my country. But Go Your Own Way was. (As was Oh Well in 1969). Who gets that compensation?

[TerraRhiannon]

Dreams was NOT #1 in my country. But Go Your Own Way was. (As was Oh Well in 1969). Who gets that compensation?

Oh they had #1's all over the world.. Gypsy and Dont Stop went to #1 in my country, but I don't count it as actually being one of their number ones. Little Lies went #1 in US AC but they don't count it.. I don't know why that is.

But I think we're just talking about the country they produced the songs in at the time and they country they called home at the time. (Rumours line up)

[elle]

talking about hits, i was [pleasantly] surprised that Gold Dust Woman and Landslide seem to be 2 SN songs that got by far the biggest recognition reaction as they started during these shows. and GDW was never a single or a "legitimate" hit right? kinda like The Chain or SHN.

it's almost like many of the songs that were not released as singles when the albums first came out were actually better and had more staying power than many that were.
i still stand by this argument. GDW, Landslide, Second Hand News and The Chain (besides GYOW and Dreams) seem to be played more by classic rock stations in DC/Philly area than BN's other "charting" hits. those songs stood the test of time, whether or not they were released as singles.

Rhiannon... do you remember SN doing it with Taylor Swift at grammys and all those tweets asking what is this song about Rhianna?



Hits on the Billboard 100 for the Rumours lineup divide up like this:


Christine
Everywhere -14
Little Lies - 4
Love In Store - 22
Hold Me - 4
Think About Me - 20
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Don't Stop - 3
Say You Love Me - 11
Over My Head - 20

Stevie
Seven Wonders - 19
Gypsy - 12
Fireflies - 60
Sisters of the Moon - 86
Sara - 7
Dreams - 1
Rhiannon - 11

Lindsey
Go Your Own Way - 10
Tusk - 8
Big Love - 5
Family Man - 90

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.
exactly - depends on where you make the cut. there was a recent article (RS?) listing FM top 10 hits and people here seemed surprised and miffed because it broke down as 4 Christine, 2 Stevie and 3 Lindsey (guess Lindsey with FM either has a huge hit or he goes down in flames :laugh:).
(btw thanks for the list, i was lazy to go look for it. )

As for other songs, there are certainly perceived 'hits', or what the band would call must-play songs that weren't singles. There's the band's total effort The Chain. Lindsey's are Secondhand News and Never Going Back Again. Slightly behind those two is I'm So Afraid, which,
these "perceived hits" are still different from the "must played" songs. so if we are already dissecting this, we should separate those 2 categories also. ISA is a must played song, but not a perceived hit.

i agree with you on Landslide, GDW, The Chain, SHN and NGBA being "perceived hits". these songs are instantly recognized by anybody, and Landslide, GDW and NGBA were extensively covered by other artists and those covers are or have been in rotation on various stations (didn't someone tweet when NGBA started that FM is covering that song? ).

i disagree with you on Silver Springs. i never hear that one on the radio and don't see it listed on any "greatest songs" list, and in concert general audience doesn't seem to be that familiar with it. it does seem to be iconic among shippers but those people are not your general audience:D;).

although, maybe we just listen to different radio stations. you may be listening to adult contemporary while i'm referring to classic rock.

They are a balanced trio: Christine = pop relevancy. Lindsey = sound and direction of the group. Stevie = the most talented songwriter, and I'd argue the writer of their most lasting and uniquely Fleetwood Mac songs.
i think it's hard to argue against your first 2 points (Christine and Lindsey) because that's backed up by some facts like a number of Christine's top 10 or top 20 hits, and Lindsey's credits for production. the 3rd one - that Stevie is the most talented songwriter is an opinion, not a fact ;). so while you may believe that, and majority on these boards who are SN-fans first may support you in that, that's hardly a fact ;).

it's probably a pretty easy argument to make that of all FM songwriters, over different incarnations, by far the most talented one (and i mean no competition whatsoever how far ahead he is!) is Peter Green. the number of iconic, amazing, lasting songs that man wrote in the short amount of time he was really active is astounding. if nothing else, is there anybody who hasn't heard Black Magic Woman?

Gradual Hits over Time, eventually singles = Landslide, Silver Springs
'Perceived Hits'/Non-singles = I still wonder about Songbird---does anyone hear that song on the radio??? It seems like perfect Adult Contemporary material. I'm not sure if non-singles cannot be played, but then Gold Dust Woman appears on classic rock stations.
yes. as does Second Hand News and The Chain. but not Silver Springs.

Songbird was covered by Willie Nelson, among others.

Songbird and ISA while concert staples, i would not necessarily count among any kind of radio hits. i don't think ISA ever had much or any radio play.

Dreams was NOT #1 in my country. But Go Your Own Way was. (As was Oh Well in 1969). Who gets that compensation?
:laugh: :cool: :xoxo:
and Albatross. :nod:
(but than there's embarrassment of Oh Diane charting in UK... :p , but i guess not in your country)

[elle]

oh talking about #1 hits - someone mentioned a huge number of Mariah's against only 1 for FM.

but remember, CCR never had a #1 hit?! Fogerty always proudly reminds people of that. and how many huge hits and iconic songs that everybody knows did they have?

[MikeVielhaber]

i agree with you on Landslide, GDW, The Chain, SHN and NGBA being "perceived hits". these songs are instantly recognized by anybody, and Landslide, GDW and NGBA were extensively covered by other artists and those covers are or have been in rotation on various stations (didn't someone tweet when NGBA started that FM is covering that song? ).


Who covered NGBA that was popular? (I've actually never heard a cover of that song by anybody)

[bethelblues]

Elle, thanks for responding to some of my comments.

To clarify for people in other countries: since the American music industry is the largest in the world, the band directly refers to Dreams as their only number one. It's the Billboard Chart that is most important, for not only acclaim but also for industry respect. That being said, I'm sure Lindsey and Christine were thrilled that their songs went number one in other places. And in the long-run, as I said before, it doesn't really matter if you had a number-one hit or not, but that the song endures. That is certainly the case for this band, as they are packing the concert arenas (unlike other acts who had significantly more number ones). I'm glad that Fleetwood Mac did get one though.

exactly - depends on where you make the cut. there was a recent article (RS?) listing FM top 10 hits and people here seemed surprised and miffed because it broke down as 4 Christine, 2 Stevie and 3 Lindsey (guess Lindsey with FM either has a huge hit or he goes down in flames :laugh:).
(btw thanks for the list, i was lazy to go look for it. )

I think when bolding the top 10, and I can see including all top 20 songs might be too large a sample size for hits, I would definitely include Stevie's Rhiannon (#11) and Gypsy (#12). They were both huge hits for the band. And I would argue that Rhiannon is probably one of the most important songs put out by Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac. So that would bring Stevie's total to four with the band, not including her solo success or Landslide and Silver Springs, which became hits over time and were finally released as singles in 1997.


these "perceived hits" are still different from the "must played" songs. so if we are already dissecting this, we should separate those 2 categories also. ISA is a must played song, but not a perceived hit.

i agree with you on Landslide, GDW, The Chain, SHN and NGBA being "perceived hits". these songs are instantly recognized by anybody, and Landslide, GDW and NGBA were extensively covered by other artists and those covers are or have been in rotation on various stations (didn't someone tweet when NGBA started that FM is covering that song? ).

i disagree with you on Silver Springs. i never hear that one on the radio and don't see it listed on any "greatest songs" list, and in concert general audience doesn't seem to be that familiar with it. it does seem to be iconic among shippers but those people are not your general audience:D;).

although, maybe we just listen to different radio stations. you may be listening to adult contemporary while i'm referring to classic rock.

That's a good point. You can divide up further, and I agree with your point on I'm So Afraid. I hear Silver Springs on once in a while. I don't listen to the radio, but I know it's been played on the Adult Contemporary station in the NY area. It is also the Grammy-nominated Silver Springs. Weird that so few of Fleetwood Mac's songs were ever singled out with nominations, especially for the Song of the Year and Record of the Year categories.


i think it's hard to argue against your first 2 points (Christine and Lindsey) because that's backed up by some facts like a number of Christine's top 10 or top 20 hits, and Lindsey's credits for production. the 3rd one - that Stevie is the most talented songwriter is an opinion, not a fact ;). so while you may believe that, and majority on these boards who are SN-fans first may support you in that, that's hardly a fact ;).

it's probably a pretty easy argument to make that of all FM songwriters, over different incarnations, by far the most talented one (and i mean no competition whatsoever how far ahead he is!) is Peter Green. the number of iconic, amazing, lasting songs that man wrote in the short amount of time he was really active is astounding. if nothing else, is there anybody who hasn't heard Black Magic Woman?

Peter Green certainly has some great songs. But for the Rumours era, I do think Stevie's songs are the most unique and set up Fleetwood Mac as very different from their contemporary bands. Also gave the band serious rock credit that Christine's songs never did. Definitely my opinion, but I think without Stevie's songs the band might not have seen the same success. I'd argue that they are probably the most unique and singular of Fleetwood Mac's output.

[MikeVielhaber]

I think when bolding the top 10, and I can see including all top 20 songs might be too large a sample size for hits, I would definitely include Stevie's Rhiannon (#11) and Gypsy (#12). They were both huge hits for the band, Gypsy being the lead single off Mirage. And I would argue that Rhiannon is probably one of the most important songs put out by Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac. So that would bring Stevie's total to four with the band, not including her solo success or Landslide and Silver Springs, which became hits over time and were finally released as singles in 1997.

Silver Springs did not become a hit "over time". That implies it was a gradual thing. When it was released on The Dance it was just a 20-year-old obscure b-side. It gained some exposure then and was an AC hit, but it did not crack the Hot 100.


Peter Green certainly has some great songs. But for the Rumours era, I do think Stevie's songs are the most unique and set up Fleetwood Mac as very different from their contemporary bands. Also gave the band serious rock credit that Christine's songs never did. Definitely my opinion, but I think without Stevie's songs the band might not have seen the same success. I'd argue that they are probably the most unique and singular of Fleetwood Mac's output.

Stevie has talent in songwriting, but she also does not play an instrument beyond a very basic level. She needs help in bringing her songs to fruition. She even brought in a song written by an outside writer when it came time for Tango. Why do that for such a supremely talented songwriter who is better than the other songwriters in the band? In fact, I skip her own songs on Tango because they just aren't good, and even her Mirage don't do anything for me, "Gypsy" aside. I love her songs on the first three albums though.

[Christopher]

Well, it depends on what you call a 'hit.' The entire Rumours album except for a few songs gets played constantly on the radio around here, but I'm not sure that any of the songs that weren't released as singles actually count as having charted, regardless of their airplay. At least, I can't find them. So another thing to consider is that Chris often had more of her songs released as singles than the others did (probably because her songs were good single material and were likely hits, as was proven), so they would be listed on the charts whereas songs that weren't released as singles but are still played a bunch and would be considered "hits" in the mind of the general public don't appear on the charts.

Hits on the Billboard 100 for the Rumours lineup divide up like this:


Christine
Everywhere -14
Little Lies - 4
Love In Store - 22
Hold Me - 4
Think About Me - 20
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Don't Stop - 3
Say You Love Me - 11
Over My Head - 20

Stevie
Seven Wonders - 19
Gypsy - 12
Fireflies - 60
Sisters of the Moon - 86
Sara - 7
Dreams - 1
Rhiannon - 11

Lindsey
Go Your Own Way - 10
Tusk - 8
Big Love - 5
Family Man - 90

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.

As WildHearted noted, it depends on what you call a "hit". I think it's worth noting that these are just the charted songs, which is fine, but imo Stevie song's that were album cuts which get perhaps more airplay than some of her biggest hits, should be weighted equally as "hit" songs even though they were never officially released, but are just as legendary and familiar to fans & non fans.

"Landslide" - Perhaps arguably the biggest (& most covered) Stevie/FM song of all time.
"Gold Dust Woman" - Still in heavy rotation of Triple A & Classic Rock radio formats.
"Silver Springs" - Which received heavy rotation as a B-side back in 77'-78', Then again as a "promo" single with "The Dance" release - which is why it didn't chart in 1997 - it wasn't eligible.

Plus Lindsey's songs which also get notable airplay still:
"Never Going Back Again"
"Monday Morning"
"Second Hand News"


Christine did not have album cuts that became legendary, popular or heavily played as these 3 Stevie & 3 Lindsey album tracks. So essentially imo Stevie is tied with Christine for having as many popular or "hit" songs.

[michelej1]

i disagree with you on Silver Springs. i never hear that one on the radio and don't see it listed on any "greatest songs" list, and in concert general audience doesn't seem to be that familiar with it. it does seem to be iconic among shippers but those people are not your general audience:D;).



I disagree with that, I hear casual fans ask or talk about Silver Springs all the time. I'm not into it myself. I was during the Dance tour itself, but I didn't like it on the Dance dvd and I haven't really liked it after the Dance tour, but that tv moment stood out for people who had never even heard of FM and they still remember it to this day.

I saw someone who is a techie, not a music personality say she went to the jazzfest in a post and someone shot back, "Oh, please tell me they did Silver Springs." And she said no, that that would have been such an emotional high point, but she said that NGBA was a good substitute. Silver Springs seems to be on a lot of people's minds and I think it's liked by casual fans even more than focused fans.

I don't think shippers look to Silver Springs for special moments. It's probably been 10 years or more since anything special happened during Silver Springs.

Michele

[michelej1]

That is true. Wasn't that the interview she got her songs mixed up and said they were doing You Make Loving Fun rather than Say You Love Me, and that they weren't quite getting it? I remember reading it.


Yes, I wondered about that, if she got that song wrong (although she didn't mention SYLM at all) or if she knew they'd been trying YMLF as well and been told that it'd failed.

The thing is, you don't have to try to recreate her vocals on YMLF. Just cover the song and interpret it your way and you still have the really nice guitar in it, which would be Lindsey's original contribution. I think they could make that work better than SYLM, if they'd wanted.

Michele

[TrueFaith77]

Who covered NGBA that was popular? (I've actually never heard a cover of that song by anybody)

Kieth Urban
John Mayer

[vivfox]

it's probably a pretty easy argument to make that of all FM songwriters, over different incarnations, by far the most talented one (and i mean no competition whatsoever how far ahead he is!) is Peter Green. the number of iconic, amazing, lasting songs that man wrote in the short amount of time he was really active is astounding. if nothing else, is there anybody who hasn't heard Black Magic Woman?
(but than there's embarrassment of Oh Diane charting in UK... :p , but i guess not in your country)


All of your points are valid except for this one because, while PG wrote BMW, you can thank Carlos Santana for the fact that the song is widely known.

PS, I did not know you were not a fan of Oh Diane.

[vivfox]

You mean "Sara"?

:lol: no, you need to re-read it - this one's for me - dropping Sara and playing Tusk once again instead. :D


I meant Sara.
I didn't see that one in the same way I didn't see that car I almost smashed into today while taking a left turn out of a side street. If he hadn't of pounded the horn we would surely have crashed.

[MikeVielhaber]

All of your points are valid except for this one because, while PG wrote BMW, you can thank Carlos Santana for the fact that the song is widely known.

PS, I did not know you were not a fan of Oh Diane.

Ah, but she's talking about songwriting, correct? If Santana's version is what sold it to the masses then so be it, but Peter still wrote the song.

[KarmaContestant]

So, looking at the top 20 for example - Chris has 8, Stevie has 5, and Lindsey has 3. Lindsey actually has more top 10 hits than Stevie, by one.

Well, goodness. Stevie can't be blamed for the majesty that is Gypsy not cracking the top-10. :nod: :laugh:

[WildHearted]

Kieth Urban
John Mayer

John Mayer covered it? When? I know he covered Dreams as part of a mash-up with one of his songs, but I've never heard him play NGBA. Cool.

[MikeVielhaber]

John Mayer covered it? When? I know he covered Dreams as part of a mash-up with one of his songs, but I've never heard him play NGBA. Cool.

A google search turned up nothing so it can't have been very popular.

[bethelblues]

Plus Lindsey's songs which also get notable airplay still:
"Never Going Back Again"
"Monday Morning"
"Second Hand News"

Do these songs get notable airplay?? On Classic Rock stations? I'm hesitant to call Monday Morning a hit, or a 'perceived hit.'


The thing is, you don't have to try to recreate her vocals on YMLF. Just cover the song and interpret it your way and you still have the really nice guitar in it, which would be Lindsey's original contribution. I think they could make that work better than SYLM, if they'd wanted.

I hear you! I'd like them to give such a treatment to Little Lies.


Christine did not have album cuts that became legendary, popular or heavily played as these 3 Stevie & 3 Lindsey album tracks. So essentially imo Stevie is tied with Christine for having as many popular or "hit" songs.

This. Well-said. And to be frank, because Stevie created a stage persona and was more visible than Christine and Lindsey, her songs have become the most iconic of all the band's work. As I said in an earlier post, I think Rhiannon is one of the Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac's most important songs. Stevie gave the group instant rock cred, first seen through that song, not Christine who gave the band's it's pop sound and not Lindsey who still remains criminally underrated as a rock guitarist.


Stevie has talent in songwriting, but she also does not play an instrument beyond a very basic level. She needs help in bringing her songs to fruition. She even brought in a song written by an outside writer when it came time for Tango. Why do that for such a supremely talented songwriter who is better than the other songwriters in the band? In fact, I skip her own songs on Tango because they just aren't good, and even her Mirage don't do anything for me, "Gypsy" aside. I love her songs on the first three albums though.

Not being a virtuoso musician in my eyes does not take away from Stevie's songwriting ability. Without her songs, the band would probably not have seen the same success. And it took a while for the band to realize that and for Stevie to have more power within the group. Had Silver Springs been written later on, it would have never been cut from the album. They needed an iconic frontwoman. I see your point on Tango in the Night, but the only writer who really brought their A game for that album was Christine. And as much as I enjoy her output and musicianship, most of those Tango songs haven't been played since 1990. In my opinion, Stevie has written the group's most iconic songs, those most unique and singular of Fleetwood Mac's output. That doesn't mean, however, that they are necessarily my favorite Fleetwood Mac songs...but it does make sense with the recent Rolling Stone poll how Stevie's songs dominated.

[WildHearted]

Do these songs get notable airplay?? On Classic Rock stations? I'm hesitant to call Monday Morning a hit, or a 'perceived hit.'


I've never heard NGBA, but I hear Monday Morning and SHN pretty frequently. And my mother knows all the words from hearing them on the radio in her youth yet she couldn't tell you one thing about Fleetwood Mac, so..

[elle]

because Stevie created a stage persona and was more visible than Christine and Lindsey, her songs have become the most iconic of all the band's work. As I said in an earlier post, I think Rhiannon is one of the Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac's most important songs. Stevie gave the group instant rock cred, first seen through that song, not Christine who gave the band's it's pop sound and not Lindsey who still remains criminally underrated as a rock guitarist.
see i think now you are getting somewhere - stage persona! Mick was talking recently (last week) about what different members bring to the group, and what he said about SN was something like what you said above - she's got this stage persona, something that draws people in.

i agree with you that Rhiannon live was what slowly made the BN version of FM huge, and that they may have never been that huge without that song or SN as a front person. maybe not necessarily as a consequence of her songwriting, or her songs giving them some kind of rock cred... possibly more of her stage effect at the time - this gorgeous little super hot woman with extremely sexy voice screaming on the top of her lungs while behaving completely possessed (Villavic can probably add a quote from Mick's book, he said something like that in there too).

most of Stevie's music seems to fit more in adult contemporary than rock category (but i don't know much about her solo career so i might be wrong), with a few notable exceptions (such as GDW!). it would be pretty hard to argue that Dreams, for example, is really a rock song. so again, not sure about "rock cred". actually, was BN FM ever considered a rock band? i've seen them being referred to as "soft rock" in recent articles. Lindsey said once how they were always considered more soft / pop until people would see them live and realize how different, rocking, and heavier they are live than judging from their albums and radio hits.

[aleuzzi]

It's not less accurate. Lindsey didn't say she never had any hits or that she only had one. And I don't think it's really justifying the existence of the foursome (or in Christine's case the sextet that remained). I think that they care/cared that the other is gone and have some unresolved feelings.

Michele

He said she had "some" hits, which is an understatement, a downplaying of her contribution.

And I do think he is, in some sense, justifying the viability of the new band by downplaying that contribution.

I also think, however, he'd be thrilled if she came back to work with them again.

[Kubrick2788]

There are moments of rock and roll in her solo catalogue, but for the most part I think she fits very well into that AC category. She pulls both off rather well. I guess that's the appeal.

[bethelblues]

see i think now you are getting somewhere - stage persona! Mick was talking recently (last week) about what different members bring to the group, and what he said about SN was something like what you said above - she's got this stage persona, something that draws people in.

i agree with you that Rhiannon live was what slowly made the BN version of FM huge, and that they may have never been that huge without that song or SN as a front person. maybe not necessarily as a consequence of her songwriting, or her songs giving them some kind of rock cred... possibly more of her stage effect at the time - this gorgeous little super hot woman with extremely sexy voice screaming on the top of her lungs while behaving completely possessed (Villavic can probably add a quote from Mick's book, he said something like that in there too).

most of Stevie's music seems to fit more in adult contemporary than rock category (but i don't know much about her solo career so i might be wrong), with a few notable exceptions (such as GDW!). it would be pretty hard to argue that Dreams, for example, is really a rock song. so again, not sure about "rock cred". actually, was BN FM ever considered a rock band? i've seen them being referred to as "soft rock" in recent articles. Lindsey said once how they were always considered more soft / pop until people would see them live and realize how different, rocking, and heavier they are live than judging from their albums and radio hits.

And it's because of that stage persona you've expanded on from what I said that Stevie can never be the one to quit the band. It could be Lindsey, though he was instrumental behind the scenes; it could be Christine, though she defined their pop sound; but had it been Stevie, I think that's what the band feared when she told them she was considering a solo career.

You have an interesting point with your question: "was BN FM ever considered a rock band?" I was speaking merely that Rhiannon gave this incarnation of the band a rock sound and viability. Interesting you mention Dreams. The live version that has evolved over the years definitely has more of a rock edge, a driving drum beat that is more present in concerts than the 1977 studio recording (The Dance version of Dreams as a good example).

I think your point actually forms the core of the conversation of where Fleetwood Mac falls among the greatest bands, as rock groups tend to be heavily favored. Some people hear Fleetwood Mac as primarily pop, since Rumours' huge success was seen as popular music. Perhaps Rolling Stone Magazine falls into this category (they only recently added Lindsey to their top 100 guitarists of all time, at number 100). I have relatives who don't care for Fleetwood Mac for these reasons; they didn't have the edge of the Stones or the influence of the Beatles. The funny thing is I often prefer Fleetwood Mac's live versions of many of their songs to their studio work, which is why I tend to consider them a rock band. Also, when thinking about where Fleetwood Mac should be placed, how many bands at their level have one lead female singer let alone two? The songs that feature all three of their voices, such as Dreams and Little Lies, are two of my favorites, as that unique sound stands alone.

[michelej1]

He said she had "some" hits, which is an understatement, a downplaying of her contribution.



But you said it was less accurate than what Christine said about him, which is that he only had 2 hits. I don't think it was less accurate than her statement. I didn't say whether or not he was downplaying her contributions. I've discussed that in the past.

I don't think he is justifying why the four of them are still touring, since I don't think anyone in the press or the fans have even wondered why they still were. It's not like people asking why the Rolling Stones would still be touring if Mick Jagger were not there. So, I disagree.

What I think he is doing is making it sound like he doesn't miss her presence as much as I believe he does -- at least I believe he missed it badly in 2003-2004. By now, he may be used to her not being there. But I agree he'd be happy if she'd returned and he said as much. He said he'd be very pleased, but surprised.

Michele

[michelej1]

most of Stevie's music seems to fit more in adult contemporary than rock category

But even if she doesn't have many, I think Rhiannon was one of her rock songs, especially back in the old days when it had not only John's very prominent base, but some smoking guitar as well.

Michele

[michelej1]

You have an interesting point with your question: "was BN FM ever considered a rock band?"

Sometimes I think that Waddy rocks it harder than FM does and that starts to trouble me a little. Rhiannon and SOTM should be rock songs, just like ISA is.

Michele

[MikeVielhaber]

Sometimes I think that Waddy rocks it harder than FM does and that starts to trouble me a little. Rhiannon and SOTM should be rock songs, just like ISA is.

Michele

I don't even understand why they've arranged SOTM the way they have on this tour. It could still be a real rocker like it used to be even with Stevie being conservative with her performance. Why isn't Lindsey tearing it up on this one? There's no reason he can't.

[WildHearted]

I don't even understand why they've arranged SOTM the way they have on this tour. It could still be a real rocker like it used to be even with Stevie being conservative with her performance. Why isn't Lindsey tearing it up on this one? There's no reason he can't.

The main thing that I think is weird about SOTM is the abrupt ending. She does get pretty into it on the "so we make our choices" and it really builds up.. and then all of a sudden it's over. It builds up and then just cuts off.