Stevie Nicks Disappointed With Sales Of Her Latest Album

[Jondalar]

Stevie Nicks Disappointed With Sales Of Her Latest Album

On Monday Stevie Nicks Disappointed With Sales Of Her Latest Album was a top story. Here is the recap: (Gibson) Stevie Nicks has spent much of the past two years promoting her solo album, In Your Dreams. Surprisingly, Nicks is now admitting that all the hard work didn't really result in much success sales-wise.

"I didn't sell a lot of records, you guys. For me, for a big act like moi, I didn't," Nicks said via CTV News. "Worldwide I probably sold 300,000 records. It's awesome if you're an unknown artist and you have a hit single, but it's not really that awesome if you're Stevie Nicks."

So, what's the reason for the slow sales? Nicks says it's simply because the music business has changed. "It's such a different age now," she said.

As for the present, Nicks will be on tour with Fleetwood Mac through this fall. So far, she loves the change. "Fleetwood Mac's much more sophisticated and grown up," she said. "And my show is just like a big slumber party in an auditorium." - more on this story

Gibson.com is an official news provider for the antiMusic.com.
Copyright Gibson.com - Excerpted here with permission.

http://www.antimusic.com/news/13/April/ts22Stevie_Nicks_Disappointed_With_Sales_Of_Her_Latest_Album.shtml

[olive]

Maybe Moi should take a good hard look at reality . 10 years of no new music and no change in her the songs she performed , probably turned off a lot of people . and Other artist are selling cds


it not them it's her .

[TheWILDheart]

Stevie needs to fact the facts....


This is NOT 1975.
Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks are NOT hot new artists.
10 years between albums is a joke.
At this stage in their career, the Mac members are NEVER going to do anything groundbreaking or reinvent themselves, so as good as the music on IYD is, it's nothing new.
300,00 copies is a LOT of record sales and will make a lot of money, regardless of your status. Stevie should be happy that people still want to listen to her music and buy her records, unlike a lot of older artists that just hang around the nether regions of the charts
"but it's not really that awesome if you're Stevie Nicks"....Stevie, I love you, but GET OVER YOURSELF, LOVE!!

[TheWILDheart]

Stevie needs to fact the facts....


This is NOT 1975.
Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks are NOT hot new artists.
10 years between albums is a joke.
At this stage in their career, the Mac members are NEVER going to do anything groundbreaking or reinvent themselves, so as good as the music on IYD is, it's nothing new.
300,00 copies is a LOT of record sales and will make a lot of money, regardless of your status. Stevie should be happy that people still want to listen to her music and buy her records, unlike a lot of older artists that just hang around the nether regions of the charts
"but it's not really that awesome if you're Stevie Nicks"....Stevie, I love you, but GET OVER YOURSELF, LOVE!!


Lindsey's solo album sales haven't come CLOSE to that of Stevie's at any point in their careers. Would she rather have similar album sales to him? No. And yet, Lindsey continues to make new music, continues to tour and make regular appearances.

Stevie once said "I would die if I wasn't doing this" and "I don't know how to do anything else". What happened to that girl, hmmm? She wasn't worried about album sales or $$$. She was doing what she loved and people wanted to hear her and see her do it. They still do. She's right in that the music business HAS changed. As she said in Destiny Rules "people are not sitting around smoking dope wondering what the next record they're going to buy is".

In 2013, as the world is today, 300,000 copies is a lot. Stevie continues to sell records, continues to be a popular touring act and people still want to listen to her music. THAT is something to be proud of.

[mitzo]

Fully agree with all of the above. If you only squeeze out a new piece of work every ten years, then basically you are trying to make a comeback. If you regularly put stuff out then your fans will stay.

And if you can no longer write, as it seems, since she had Dave Stewart do the music to most of IYD, then hit the vault.

[On Ice]

Talking up record sales is definitely something that Stevie's "people" need to coach her to stop bringing up in public, it's embarrassing. I remember her saying around the time of the release of Tusk that if it didn't sell she'd be disappointed in "everyone". I guess that includes the 300 K of us that bought the fantastic IYD and the 4 million of us that bought the brilliant Tusk album. I love you Stevie, but please just drop the pouting and get back to the music.:sorry:

[On Ice]

hit the vault.

Totally agree since we all know some of Stevie's best songwriting remains unheard by the general public, but I think it's far too late in her career for it to have a lasting impact. There are songs in there as good or better than anything that has been officially released.

[nicolasjz]

Do you guys remember the time in 2011 when Stevie said she didn't care if nobody bought IYD and that she just wanted to make the record for herself and her fans? Sounds ironic now…

I do understand why it can be hard for such a sucessful act not to sell nearly as many records as before in spite of still making great music. But as for lamenting her poor sales in foreign markets, she has only herself to blame. Had she consistently toured Europe in her heyday she certainly would have built a following there and knowing how loyal Europeans fans are, that would have made a huge difference in the long run.

I just hope her disappointments won't dissuade her from making another record again.

[TerraRhiannon]

I really hope this doesn't stop her from making a new album or two.

For crying out loud, most people just download the music straight from the internet and don't pay a cent to the artist... that's unfortunate because it causes them to think no one wants their new music and therefore we suffer as fans and don't get any!

Plus, where is this attitude even coming from, Stevie! We thought you were doing this because you love it, and you'd die if you weren't doing it....? You say it's good for a new artist to have a hit single, and sell 300,000 albums, but the door swings both ways. If you're NOT a hot new artist, bless your soul, it's going to be equally as hard to sell your albums because the uneducated, older fan base is not going to be down for the new stuff. It's a different taste to them. My Mom is the same way, she doesn't like the way the music has evolved. And that's her thing, it happens.

[Sleepless-Child]

Stevie Nicks Disappointed With Sales Of Her Latest Album

On Monday Stevie Nicks Disappointed With Sales Of Her Latest Album was a top story. Here is the recap: (Gibson) Stevie Nicks has spent much of the past two years promoting her solo album, In Your Dreams. Surprisingly, Nicks is now admitting that all the hard work didn't really result in much success sales-wise.

"I didn't sell a lot of records, you guys. For me, for a big act like moi, I didn't," Nicks said via CTV News. "Worldwide I probably sold 300,000 records. It's awesome if you're an unknown artist and you have a hit single, but it's not really that awesome if you're Stevie Nicks."

So, what's the reason for the slow sales? Nicks says it's simply because the music business has changed. "It's such a different age now," she said.

As for the present, Nicks will be on tour with Fleetwood Mac through this fall. So far, she loves the change. "Fleetwood Mac's much more sophisticated and grown up," she said. "And my show is just like a big slumber party in an auditorium." - more on this story

Gibson.com is an official news provider for the antiMusic.com.
Copyright Gibson.com - Excerpted here with permission.

http://www.antimusic.com/news/13/April/ts22Stevie_Nicks_Disappointed_With_Sales_Of_Her_Latest_Album.shtml

Wow are you kidding me...

[olive]

Wow are you kidding me...

she's right up there with P!NK Lady GaGa And Madonna

[bluefox4000]

What else does she except. This is like when Elton John was disappointed with his sales. Her best record selling days are long gone sadly.

and i agree that the ridiculous waiting periods don't help either......time her outlook changed and she made music for herself.

Mick

[Macfanforever]

What kills me is the record companies dont have the money to promote the new releases .Stevie did comment on that.

I just dont believe they dont have it and where did the money go.

The artists dont get it.

[HejiraNYC]

Why is everybody jumping down her throat? She's just being honest. Sure, she could pretend that IYD was a huge smash (it did chart in the Top 10 after all). However, she's just being matter of fact about her own sales performance and used herself as an example of how the music business is in the toilet. She never compared herself with the hot young artists of today, who, by the way, are not selling nearly as much as they would have ten years ago. Yes, it is rather disappointing that a new album by an artist who has purportedly sold 140 million albums worldwide can barely sell a few copies of a new release. Facts are facts, and it would have been rather bizarre for her to pretend that IYD was a big hit when it wasn't.

[PenguinHead]

As she said in Destiny Rules "people are not sitting around smoking dope wondering what the next record they're going to buy is".



:shrug: I am sort of one of those people sitting around smoking dope and wondering what the next record I'm going to buy! The essential difference is that I'm not wondering - I know the records I want to buy.

Stevie needs to focus less on sales and more on her craft. She's not getting any younger, and among any new material she has written, she has plenty of older material laying around to work with. At this stage in her career, she should be doing what Lindsey is doing - adding to his legacy by being more prolific than ever. She could put out an album every several years, and not feel obligated to tour for two years to promote it; perhaps just a few key performances, and TV appearances.

Another thing -- I find it odd that her concept of promoting a new album is to tour under the name of the album, yet only perform a slim fraction of it in the show, then make TV appearances performing old songs, and promise a movie documentary that is delivered nearly two years after the album's release, and accessible in the most limiting way. Who are the marketing geniuses responsible for this? The timing and tactics were all wrong. Makes me think her managers have the skill level akin to that of Chris Nicks' graphic design ability.

[Sleepless-Child]

Oh she can be honest (although seriously what did she expect) but when i read "a big act like MOI" i want to punch her.

[bluefox4000]

Oh she can be honest (although seriously what did she expect) but when i read "a big act like MOI" i want to punch her.



Lol.....Really show's there IS a Stevieland. Well I guess with who she was at one time, ya can't blame her.

Mick

[Sleepless-Child]

Lol.....Really show's there IS a Stevieland. Well I guess with who she was at one time, ya can't blame her.

Mick

I guess you're right but she's also been through tough times, you'd think she would be a bit more modest now :).
(actually i always knew she wasn't modest but does she have to make it that obvious?)

[Blueletter18]

Just for comparison's sake, does anyone know what Lindsey's recent solo albums have been selling? (SWS, GoS, Under the Skin, etc.)

[MikeVielhaber]

Stevie needs to fact the facts....


This is NOT 1975.
Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks are NOT hot new artists.
10 years between albums is a joke.
At this stage in their career, the Mac members are NEVER going to do anything groundbreaking or reinvent themselves, so as good as the music on IYD is, it's nothing new.
300,00 copies is a LOT of record sales and will make a lot of money, regardless of your status. Stevie should be happy that people still want to listen to her music and buy her records, unlike a lot of older artists that just hang around the nether regions of the charts
"but it's not really that awesome if you're Stevie Nicks"....Stevie, I love you, but GET OVER YOURSELF, LOVE!!


300,000 worldwide sales really isn't a lot of sales.

[TheWILDheart]

What else does she except. This is like when Elton John was disappointed with his sales. Her best record selling days are long gone sadly.

and i agree that the ridiculous waiting periods don't help either......time her outlook changed and she made music for herself.

Mick

EXACTLY!

She is not alone in lower album sales. NOBODY is shifting albums like they used to. "Rock a Little" and "The Otherside Of The Mirror" charted LOWER than IYD, but both sold more copies in their first 2 years on sale. For Stevie to have a top 10 album and top 10 singles at this stage in her career is fantastic, regardless of how many copies it sold.

The success of an album is not purely based on the number of copies sold. Albums don't sell like they used to, so the adjustment has to be taken into account. IYD recieved rave reviews from fans and critics and brought in a lot of new fans for Stevie with Dave doing a lot of net promotion, the documentary and the Q&A sessions.

Whether Stevie belives it or not, IYD was a MASSIVE success and she should be so proud of herself for it.

An artist does not create just to sell it, they create because they have something inside them that they want to share with others and express in a certain way. Why does Stevie feel that she needs to sell sell sell? It's not like she needs the money, she's already MINTED.

[The Catdancer]

Do you guys remember the time in 2011 when Stevie said she didn't care if nobody bought IYD and that she just wanted to make the record for herself and her fans? Sounds ironic now…

I do understand why it can be hard for such a sucessful act not to sell nearly as many records as before in spite of still making great music. But as for lamenting her poor sales in foreign markets, she has only herself to blame. Had she consistently toured Europe in her heyday she certainly would have built a following there and knowing how loyal Europeans fans are, that would have made a huge difference in the long run.

I just hope her disappointments won't dissuade her from making another record again.

You have a point about consistently touring Europe. Back in the day I had some good contacts at the record company and they were dying for her to come over to promote BD, WH and RAL and do shows. But she cancelled every single time. By the time TOSOTM came around it was too late. Although the album did fairly well, her shows weren't sold out'. I remember attending the show in Holland in '89 and the arena was half full and half of the people that were there, came to see Richard Marx.

As for IYD selling only 300.000, I think she's right. For a big act like her it is nothing. I don't think she's being arrogant or cocky about it, she's just being honest. She's used to selling millions. But she has herself and her team to blame for that. She listened to people who said if she would do a record she wouldn't make a dime because of internet piracy. That may be true but (like someone else said) she used to say she made music for herself and didn't care if it wouldn't sell one copy. A ten year 'pause' between albums wasn't a smart move. And releasing the documentary 2 years after the fact wasn't smart either. If she would have released the doc a few weeks after the record she might have sold a lot more. I don't know anything about digital releases but was IYD for sale as a digital download? If not, it should have been. This is the digital era and you reach a lot more people through the internet in addition to releasing hard copies.

[The Catdancer]

EXACTLY!

She is not alone in lower album sales. NOBODY is shifting albums like they used to. "Rock a Little" and "The Otherside Of The Mirror" charted LOWER than IYD, but both sold more copies in their first 2 years on sale. For Stevie to have a top 10 album and top 10 singles at this stage in her career is fantastic, regardless of how many copies it sold.

The success of an album is not purely based on the number of copies sold. Albums don't sell like they used to, so the adjustment has to be taken into account. IYD recieved rave reviews from fans and critics and brought in a lot of new fans for Stevie with Dave doing a lot of net promotion, the documentary and the Q&A sessions.

Whether Stevie belives it or not, IYD was a MASSIVE success and she should be so proud of herself for it.

An artist does not create just to sell it, they create because they have something inside them that they want to share with others and express in a certain way. Why does Stevie feel that she needs to sell sell sell? It's not like she needs the money, she's already MINTED.

She should be proud of herself, it's a great record. I know I love it :)

I don't think Stevie made this record with "sell sell sell" in mind. She knows she doesn't need the money. I think she's using the 300.000 figure as a way to poll how popular she still is. Concerts may sell out but she knows just as well as we do there are a lot of people going to the show who are casual fans or come with a friend.

[bombaysaffires]

She should be proud of herself, it's a great record. I know I love it :)

I don't think Stevie made this record with "sell sell sell" in mind. She knows she doesn't need the money. I think she's using the 300.000 figure as a way to poll how popular she still is. Concerts may sell out but she knows just as well as we do there are a lot of people going to the show who are casual fans or come with a friend.

oh I think she definitely made it hoping to sell a lot. the commercial gods just weren't as favorable this time. She isn't Lindsey, never has been, and sales and success and magazine covers and top of the charts and all that matters to her. She can hide it a lot of the time, but our girl is VERY competitive and likes to win.

As for needing money, in terms of supporting just herself, yeah she's set. But she doesn't. she supports a LOT of people... who have made their entire careers working for her and being supported by her .... friends, family, assistants... she gives them nominal job titles or they do errands and things, but they are paid by her. and then they have kids, and she puts most of them through college. and her brother, and her singers, and so on. and let's not forget managers and publicists and lawyers and all who work for her all year managing her assets and the like whether she's putting out new product or not, and many of those people get a cut of what she makes. money coming in also pays for the new stage wardrobes etc which cost a fortune. she's got a ton of expenses and if she retired and lived off her royalties she'd be eating into her capital really fast.

does she make enough to live a very nice version of most of our lives? sure. but she doesn't live our lifestyle, for better or worse, and keeping that huge ship afloat takes beaucoup cash. :cool:

[bluefox4000]

Just for the record I love IYD too. Her best work in years I think. It makes me sad that she's stuck in this mode of thinking. Cause she should be WAY proud. I certainly was proud of her when the album dropped.

Mick

[KarmaContestant]

Why is everybody jumping down her throat?

Probably because she refers to herself as "a big act" which, sorry, she just isn't. Maybe in her mind... :laugh:

But seriously, she should never expect the sales numbers of today's big acts. Frankly, her album sold very well with over 120K copies in the US, and actually, more than 500K world wide (I just sourced this statistic a few days back in another thread). There are tens of thousands of albums released every year. Most don't sell more than 5-10 thousand copies. Her 500K is quite respectable, and very enviable.

I find her comments annoying more than anything, because she prefers to lay blame instead of looking at her own output. If you want to sell records, you've got to be in people faces, all the time. They can't ever forget about you. Stevie's gaps between releases are simply too much. TV shows are not enough. Concerts don't sell albums - but might if albums were actually sold at her shows. Videos in heavy rotation do. Radio play does. Stevie doesn't have those promo tools to fall back on. It's not her fault - it's the passing of time.

That said, Stevie just needs a better perspective, instead of comparing her success to her previous successes - she needs to think about now, and not then. I hope she's happy with the album, regardless of sales.

[kak125]

i think in your dreams did pretty good considering how long its been for releases from her but if you listen to the entire interview from the Toronto Q&A sessions you wont think she was being such a jerk about it, its actually pretty funny the way she says it. that quote was taken out of context, she did go on to say that you cant look at it that way anymore because records don't sell like that. then she says this it is a great thing because she sold those 300,000 records personally by herself by stomping all over the US and then stomping all over Australia on her own.

you can listen to it here:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tXg2kZV8-6s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[HejiraNYC]

Probably because she refers to herself as "a big act" which, sorry, she just isn't. Maybe in her mind... :laugh:

But she is a big act. The fact that she participated in the best selling group studio album of all time is not to be taken lightly. The fact that her band can sell out 15,000-seat arenas means she's a "big act." No, she's no Taylor Swift or Beyonce in today's world, but if you use Stevie's own past accomplishments as a benchmark, she is a big act, and sales of IYD fell well short of that benchmark.


But seriously, she should never expect the sales numbers of today's big acts. Frankly, her album sold very well with over 120K copies in the US, and actually, more than 500K world wide (I just sourced this statistic a few days back in another thread). There are tens of thousands of albums released every year. Most don't sell more than 5-10 thousand copies. Her 500K is quite respectable, and very enviable.


I don't think she said anything about being compared to today's big acts. She's comparing IYD to her past accomplishments. It's purely math: IYD sold about 1/20 what Bella Donna sold. That's not good any way you slice it.


I find her comments annoying more than anything, because she prefers to lay blame instead of looking at her own output. If you want to sell records, you've got to be in people faces, all the time. They can't ever forget about you. Stevie's gaps between releases are simply too much. TV shows are not enough. Concerts don't sell albums - but might if albums were actually sold at her shows. Videos in heavy rotation do. Radio play does. Stevie doesn't have those promo tools to fall back on. It's not her fault - it's the passing of time.

What is this- the 1990s? :lol: Are videos on "rotation" anywhere? Does anybody really listen to the radio anymore? I agree that being in the public eye (premieres, social media, parties, paparazzi, etc.) is crucial for maintaining ones relevance in today's hyper-connected age, but that is tantamount to selling your soul. Quite simply, she's just not that kind of girl; she's not going to compromise her integrity/privacy just to get a few more hits on YouTube. Yes, ten years between studio albums is excessive, but she was still out there touring every year and offering retrospective packages of her work in the interim. And her continuous ubiquity on album rock and AAA format radio is unquestionable. It would be dishonest to say that suddenly she became a non-household name during those ten years.l

That said, Stevie just needs a better perspective, instead of comparing her success to her previous successes - she needs to think about now, and not then. I hope she's happy with the album, regardless of sales.

I honestly don't think she cares about the money. But she does care about sales because it is some kind of a metric on the quality of her album and the degree to which her fans did or did not embrace it. She wanted everyone to love it because she was so proud of it. Plus I'm sure there is a side of her that wishes she could go all in yer face to the naysayers who were telling her not to bother recording new music for the past ten years. Alas, the commercial reception of IYD only validated what they've been telling her; that has to sting.

[HejiraNYC]

i think in your dreams did pretty good considering how long its been for releases from her but if you listen to the entire interview from the Toronto Q&A sessions you wont think she was being such a jerk about it, its actually pretty funny the way she says it. that quote was taken out of context, she did go on to say that you cant look at it that way anymore because records don't sell like that. then she says this it is a great thing because she sold those 300,000 records personally by herself by stomping all over the US and then stomping all over Australia on her own.


To hear her say it, you would think she toured for two years continuously, when in fact she toured for one month in 2011 and one month in 2012 plus a handful of one-off shows here and there. And her touring has been mainly limited to the U.S. Northeast; she didn't really properly tour the west coast or Midwest. Yes, she (and Dave) pretty much peddled the record herself. But she shouldn't act like she visited every nook and cranny to do it.

[rhiannondontgo]

Wikipedia says IYD sold over 500,000 copies worldwide. :shrug:

And, I don't think it's fair to be annoyed with her for referring to herself as a "big act". Guys, she's Stevie effing Nicks. Every time I would wear my Stevie tees to highschool, the teachers and students would be like "Oh my god, you saw Stevie?". She's kind of a rock goddess, people. And yes she's a few decades past her prime. But she's still a rockstar. Her band made the 8th best-selling record of all time. She's often referred to as the queen of rock & roll. That's really something. I know we're all like overly familiar with her and know so much about her that it's nothing out of the ordinary to make fun of her or joke about it. But to the rest of the world, at least the majority of it that is old enough or cultured enough to know this stuff, she is a pretty big deal.

And I think IYD would've sold better had it had better vocals. :sorry: But my mother and I are both die-hard Stevie fans. So are about 5 of my close friends. And not one of them plays IYD very much at all. The vocals are a little nails-on-a-chalkboard. I get that she's older and the voice is destroyed by all the **** she's ingested (Trust me, I get it. I used to be the lead in school musicals every year. Then I had my bout with blow and rehab and all that jazz, plus a pretty nasty smoking habit. And now I can't sing a note.), but at the same time every now and then she'll sing something so pure and stunning that it amazes me. You just have to learn to produce that voice and how to deal with her. I mean to me Love Changes stands out on TISL because her voice sounds a decade younger than all the other songs. And the guy who produced it also did Call On Me For Magic, where she hits the highest notes we've heard in years. That's not a coincidence. I think you just have to put a lot of effort into stretching her voice and getting a clean take. Ehh, ignore my rant. Maybe i'm crazy.

[joe68]

If it was a great record it would have sold. C'mon now, it sounds like an 80's record with poor production with almost all of the songs hovering over 6 minutes. There's was no monster single and certainly no great follow up single. I would blame Dave Stewart but who knows? Glen Ballard did the same thing to IYD as he did to the last Annie Lennox record - he made it sound generic.

[nicolasjz]

Stevie should take comfort in the fact that when her contemporary female rock singers (Pat Benatar, Linda Rondstadt, Belinda Carlisle…) release their albums, they are happy if they even reach the Billboard 200!

[Artemis]

If it was a great record it would have sold.

Sales = / = Quality.

I think when talking about IYD, Stevie's gonna get damned either way. If she said she was happy with how it did, as it was a moderate success, people would be like 'lol no, flopped' but now she's admitted she wishes it sold more, people are ragging on her for that. Woman can't win :shrug:

[Christopher]

But she is a big act. The fact that she participated in the best selling group studio album of all time is not to be taken lightly. The fact that her band can sell out 15,000-seat arenas means she's a "big act." No, she's no Taylor Swift or Beyonce in today's world, but if you use Stevie's own past accomplishments as a benchmark, she is a big act, and sales of IYD fell well short of that benchmark.

Amen! Stevie is a force of nature, by absolute perseverance & talent ta boot, It's not nothing that Stevie is well into her 5th decade of her storied adventure with fame & fortune. She is a big rock star! And debatably may have risen to the top of the mantle of the female rock throne! Stevie's music (Mac & solo) from 1975 - 1983 is STILL in constant rotation on numerous radio and satellite stations - probably moreso than any other female artist of her generation! Just because Stevie has never been the media whore like Madonna, LadyG, Beyonce etc., She is very much revered and has amassed the curiousilty of many new younger fans & continues to inspire todays recording Artists. That's not nothing. That's HUGE.:nod:
Also very few from her generation are still selling as much or more as Stevie sold with IYD! That list is not long (Bonnie Raitt, Paul Simon, Elton John, Bruce Springsteen, etc.) Especially in the classic rock genre. She certainly sold thousands upon thousands more copies than Hearts last release.
Its also worth nothing that Stevie sold more copies than her younger female pop/rock compadres last releases; Melissa Etheridge, Sheryl Crow & Sarah Mclachlan, Hole.

[KarmaContestant]

But she is a big act. The fact that she participated in the best selling group studio album of all time is not to be taken lightly. The fact that her band can sell out 15,000-seat arenas means she's a "big act." No, she's no Taylor Swift or Beyonce in today's world, but if you use Stevie's own past accomplishments as a benchmark, she is a big act, and sales of IYD fell well short of that benchmark.

OK. So she's a big *oldies* act - a *nostalgia* act. Like The Stones or Heart or any other number of bands and performers who are essentially has-beens. Many of them still sell out arenas, but cannot sell albums. Many of them also have fans who are convinced that music "isn't good anymore" and they only like the songs they know, from the past; check out Stevie's setlist - she perpetuates this.


What is this- the 1990s? :lol: Are videos on "rotation" anywhere? Does anybody really listen to the radio anymore? I agree that being in the public eye (premieres, social media, parties, paparazzi, etc.) is crucial for maintaining ones relevance in today's hyper-connected age, but that is tantamount to selling your soul. Quite simply, she's just not that kind of girl; she's not going to compromise her integrity/privacy just to get a few more hits on YouTube. Yes, ten years between studio albums is excessive, but she was still out there touring every year and offering retrospective packages of her work in the interim. And her continuous ubiquity on album rock and AAA format radio is unquestionable. It would be dishonest to say that suddenly she became a non-household name during those ten years.

Yes, videos are on TV. I watch them every week on NewNowNext. I find dozens of great artists, newer and older, this way. If videos and radio didn't matter, they wouldn't be so critical to the success of new acts. Every day there's a story about so-and-so's video in the entertainment media. I would not consider her a household name today, and if I were her manager I'd make sure she knew that that type of recognition comes from constant effort. You can't rest on the laurels of your past if you want to continue being successful. This is true of any profession. 10 years between albums? She could have released FIVE albums in that time period. Even 6 years between albums is too many years.

I honestly don't think she cares about the money. But she does care about sales because it is some kind of a metric on the quality of her album and the degree to which her fans did or did not embrace it. She wanted everyone to love it because she was so proud of it. Plus I'm sure there is a side of her that wishes she could go all in yer face to the naysayers who were telling her not to bother recording new music for the past ten years. Alas, the commercial reception of IYD only validated what they've been telling her; that has to sting.

I didn't mention money, but, obviously sales are important to her, or she would not mention them. Stevie equates sales *quantities* with success, but like I said, I believe it is because she is comparing herself today to herself yesterday. That needs to stop.



I love Stevie's music, and I don't want anyone to think I'm knocking her. I think IYD was one of her best albums, ever. I don't care how many albums she sells - it's not relevant to me as a fan. But reality is reality - name recognition, sales, radio, videos - these things matter - but all that aside, Stevie is not as big and popular *anymore* as she likes to think she still is. Being a legend doesn't mean you will sell a lot of albums. That's OK - I don't appreciate her any less than when she was selling millions.

[bluefox4000]

OK. So she's a big *oldies* act - a *nostalgia* act. Like The Stones or Heart or any other number of bands and performers who are essentially has-beens. Many of them still sell out arenas, but cannot sell albums. Many of them also have fans who are convinced that music "isn't good anymore" and they only like the songs they know, from the past; check out Stevie's setlist - she perpetuates this.



Yes, videos are on TV. I watch them every week on NewNowNext. I find dozens of great artists, newer and older, this way. If videos and radio didn't matter, they wouldn't be so critical to the success of new acts. Every day there's a story about so-and-so's video in the entertainment media. I would not consider her a household name today, and if I were her manager I'd make sure she knew that that type of recognition comes from constant effort. You can't rest on the laurels of your past if you want to continue being successful. This is true of any profession. 10 years between albums? She could have released FIVE albums in that time period. Even 6 years between albums is too many years.



I didn't mention money, but, obviously sales are important to her, or she would not mention them. Stevie equates sales *quantities* with success, but like I said, I believe it is because she is comparing herself today to herself yesterday. That needs to stop.



I love Stevie's music, and I don't want anyone to think I'm knocking her. I think IYD was one of her best albums, ever. I don't care how many albums she sells - it's not relevant to me as a fan. But reality is reality - name recognition, sales, radio, videos - these things matter - but all that aside, Stevie is not as big and popular as she likes to think she is. That's OK - I don't appreciate her any less than when she was selling millions.

Agree on all Points.

Mick

[Jondalar]

Hello folks,

I admire Stevie's honesty. She worked her ass off promoting this record. She was on the big shows and everything. Think of all the things she has done in the last three years and what she has went through. The work did pay off in a way. Fleetwood Mac's tour is doing really well. That is because her smart thinking has kept them in the limelight (getting them on Glee...). It's just her solo career is not known for quality. Lot of people were ready to embrace her but never liked TISL.

She will do an EP or 10 song album, probably released directly to iTunes.

[KarmaContestant]

I think when talking about IYD, Stevie's gonna get damned either way. If she said she was happy with how it did, as it was a moderate success, people would be like 'lol no, flopped' but now she's admitted she wishes it sold more, people are ragging on her for that. Woman can't win :shrug:

I think it's just that some fans see things for how they really are, and other fans see from a more fantastical point of view. I'm a realist - I love Stevie, but if she expects to be a top-selling artist today, she's living in a fantasy world. It just isn't going to happen. But it doesn't need to happen, either.

She comes off (in print) like her low sales figures have nothing to do with her, and everything to do with fans, the internet and label execs. While those things have a lot of sway over her success, it ultimately comes down to her not having throughput with all of the projects she talks about.

[KarmaContestant]

i think in your dreams did pretty good considering how long its been for releases from her but if you listen to the entire interview from the Toronto Q&A sessions you wont think she was being such a jerk about it, its actually pretty funny the way she says it. that quote was taken out of context, she did go on to say that you cant look at it that way anymore because records don't sell like that. then she says this it is a great thing because she sold those 300,000 records personally by herself by stomping all over the US and then stomping all over Australia on her own.



There we go! She should be proud of the album and her efforts.

[olive]

probably being on American Idol hurt her career a bit

[michelej1]

probably being on American Idol hurt her career a bit

How could that have hurt anything?

Michele

[Jondalar]

How could that have hurt anything?

Michele

It didn't. That would of helped.

[starshine]

:shrug: I am sort of one of those people sitting around smoking dope and wondering what the next record I'm going to buy! The essential difference is that I'm not wondering - I know the records I want to buy.

Stevie needs to focus less on sales and more on her craft. She's not getting any younger, and among any new material she has written, she has plenty of older material laying around to work with. At this stage in her career, she should be doing what Lindsey is doing - adding to his legacy by being more prolific than ever. She could put out an album every several years, and not feel obligated to tour for two years to promote it; perhaps just a few key performances, and TV appearances.

Another thing -- I find it odd that her concept of promoting a new album is to tour under the name of the album, yet only perform a slim fraction of it in the show, then make TV appearances performing old songs, and promise a movie documentary that is delivered nearly two years after the album's release, and accessible in the most limiting way. Who are the marketing geniuses responsible for this? The timing and tactics were all wrong. Makes me think her managers have the skill level akin to that of Chris Nicks' graphic design ability.

I think you make some great points here. Things should be released at the time they are out --meaning the CD and the documentary etc. I think she really missed the boat. The attention span today isn't like it was even 10 yrs ago let alone 20 and 30 + yrs ago. She could've done many things. Waiting 10 yrs between CD's isn't great either. Like others have stated too. Open up that Vaults and release 'all' those unreleased outtakes /extended versions/unheard songs as well as outtake photos etc. I don't think it'll happen though. Sad but so true. :shrug::D

[mitzo]

:shrug: I am sort of one of those people sitting around smoking dope and wondering what the next record I'm going to buy! The essential difference is that I'm not wondering - I know the records I want to buy.

Stevie needs to focus less on sales and more on her craft. She's not getting any younger, and among any new material she has written, she has plenty of older material laying around to work with. At this stage in her career, she should be doing what Lindsey is doing - adding to his legacy by being more prolific than ever. She could put out an album every several years, and not feel obligated to tour for two years to promote it; perhaps just a few key performances, and TV appearances.

Another thing -- I find it odd that her concept of promoting a new album is to tour under the name of the album, yet only perform a slim fraction of it in the show, then make TV appearances performing old songs, and promise a movie documentary that is delivered nearly two years after the album's release, and accessible in the most limiting way. Who are the marketing geniuses responsible for this? The timing and tactics were all wrong. Makes me think her managers have the skill level akin to that of Chris Nicks' graphic design ability.

Yes to all this. I do not understand the studiophobia for someone who claims to be an artist. Not at all. The legacy will be the recordings, Honey.

[mitzo]

I have always been skeptical that she was persuaded by others not to record after TISL. I feel it was her own decision.... It took her eternity to get TISL out and I feel she dithered and coasted and suffered writer's block during the 2000's until she saw Lindsey pumping out material.

[michelej1]

I have always been skeptical that she was persuaded by others not to record after TISL. I feel it was her own decision.... It took her eternity to get TISL out and I feel she dithered and coasted and suffered writer's block during the 2000's until she saw Lindsey pumping out material.

I want to know the names of the people telling her not to do it. Howard, Liz and Karen? Michele

[TerraRhiannon]

Another thing -- I find it odd that her concept of promoting a new album is to tour under the name of the album, yet only perform a slim fraction of it in the show, then make TV appearances performing old songs, and promise a movie documentary that is delivered nearly two years after the album's release, and accessible in the most limiting way.

While I agree that it blows she performs mostly old songs like "Landslide," and "stand Back" on shows like Ellen, and such, during her actual show she displayed a lot of the album in her setlist, I think the majority of it was IYD songs, wasn't it? I'm not 100% on that because I wasn't able to go to any of the shows, but the setlists I've looked up show that, and at least she was playing those new songs at her concerts, showing she has some passion for them and actually likes them!!

[Macfanforever]

Radio did not give a sheet about IYD. I'm still waiting to hear it here in CT.

Let see it any of the tunes from the FM EP will hit the airwaves .

I doubt it.

[kak125]

Radio doesnt really play songs from any artist over 40 so it wouldnt have matter if it was the best record ever they werent going to play it.

[Macfanforever]

Radio doesnt really play songs from any artist over 40 so it wouldnt have matter if it was the best record ever they werent going to play it.

I agree on that.

[Chris_Lover]

IMHO, I think Stevie is right when she says that music business has changed and "It's such a different age now". The problem is not that her album isn't good, but the fact that people nowadays (specially younger generations) listen to crappy music, as Chris already said almost 20 years ago: “Learn your instrument. Be honest. Don't do anything phony. There is so much crap floating around. There is plenty of room for a bit of honest writing.”. Stevie write and sing honest music, but how can she fight against all the contrived, noisy and often meaningless songs that radio and tv stations feed us today? There's a complete fall style that reflects our society, so, in order to have fame and make money, today's artists adapt themselves and eventually all the songs sound alike. If you want to stay true to yourself, these are the disadvantages you will face. She doesn't need to change the way she write or sings to please her fans though, she shouldn't forget that there's still plenty of people who love good music and love her, so at this point of her career she shouldn't care anymore about poor sales: if you survived to 40 years of musical changes and you still sell 300,000 records worldwide in this age of decay, well... it means you are still way better than any anonymous and untalented singer that released a big hit but will disappears in just 1 or 2 years. Therefore, poor sales are more than welcome! :nod:

[RickRobert]

She needs a reality check

[holidayroad]

I really think the long span between albums is the problem. We are major fans, so we are hoping and waiting for anything new by Stevie. Most casual fans are not going to wait around for 10 years. By then, they may have forgotten that they ever liked any Stevie material.

Also, would it hurt Stevie (or any member of FM) to come to somewhere like this board and answer questions once a year and interact with the faithful fans they do have??! Something to where they make themselves more acessible to the public would help.

[Macfanforever]

IMHO, I think Stevie is right when she says that music business has changed and "It's such a different age now". The problem is not that her album isn't good, but the fact that people nowadays (specially younger generations) listen to crappy music, as Chris already said almost 20 years ago: “Learn your instrument. Be honest. Don't do anything phony. There is so much crap floating around. There is plenty of room for a bit of honest writing.”. Stevie write and sing honest music, but how can she fight against all the contrived, noisy and often meaningless songs that radio and tv stations feed us today? There's a complete fall style that reflects our society, so, in order to have fame and make money, today's artists adapt themselves and eventually all the songs sound alike. If you want to stay true to yourself, these are the disadvantages you will face. She doesn't need to change the way she write or sings to please her fans though, she shouldn't forget that there's still plenty of people who love good music and love her, so at this point of her career she shouldn't care anymore about poor sales: if you survived to 40 years of musical changes and you still sell 300,000 records worldwide in this age of decay, well... it means you are still way better than any anonymous and untalented singer that released a big hit but will disappears in just 1 or 2 years. Therefore, poor sales are more than welcome! :nod:

I agree on the crap that is produced today.It seems like most of the kids I know like the older music .then the current tunes.

Most are Autotuned since they cant sing for crap.

Stevie probably agrees with that but cant say it out in public.

I know a couple of older country music artists made statements that todays country music is not country music which I agree with them.

[TheSorcerer]

But she is a big act. The fact that she participated in the best selling group studio album of all time is not to be taken lightly. The fact that her band can sell out 15,000-seat arenas means she's a "big act." No, she's no Taylor Swift or Beyonce in today's world, but if you use Stevie's own past accomplishments as a benchmark, she is a big act, and sales of IYD fell well short of that benchmark.

Rumours isn't the best selling group studio album of all time. Pink Floyd and AC/DC have both sold more copies of a studio album than Rumours.

Stevie's solo career has never really been as big outside of the US that it is (was?) inside. Her sales outside of the US aren't actually THAT impressive, especially when comparing them with other female rock singers like Tina Turner who has released a similar amount of albums to Stevie and is held in a similar regard by both critics and fans. Stevie has probably sold about 10 million records outside of the US, maybe a bit less than that. That isn't exactly bad going but it's also not amazing considering the level many of her fans place her on. I have to laugh when people in magazines and on TV claim she's sold 140 million albums worldwide. Fleetwood Mac's sales make up for about 120 million of that figure and shouldn't be counted towards Stevie's solo sales. Paul McCartney doesn't have the sales of The Beatles music added to his solo sales. I guess it sounds more impressive to say that Stevie has sold 140 million albums worldwide rather than 20 million. She also struggles to sell out a lot of big arenas she insists on playing in the US. This isn't a recent thing, this goes as far back as The Wild Heart Tour in 1983. She should swallow her pride and play smaller venues. Then there's the lack of touring in a lot of countries. Tina Turner did the right thing and made her presence known as a live act outside of the US and built up a strong following that way. Stevie has virtually ignored many places for the majority of her solo career and that's been a problem.

It's really Fleetwood Mac that has kept her in the public's consciousness for years now, especially in places like Europe where she's only really talked about when she's part of the group. She would have been old news years ago had it not been for the many FM reunion tours since the 1990s that she's participated in and which have upped her profile during the quieter periods of her solo career. Take Trouble in Shangri-La and Enchanted for example. I highly doubt either would have done as well as they did in the US had The Dance not happened in the late 1990s and reinvigorated interest in her. She's lucky the band didn't permanently disband. Let's be honest here, her solo success peaked with her first album and was pretty much dead for the most of the 1990s, plus the lack of new material between 2001 and 2011 has done her no favours. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to belittle her career or attack her, it's just that a lot of her impact and what people make reference to nowadays seems to be the work she's done with Fleetwood Mac and not her actual solo career. Her big US hit singles aren't held in the same regard in many other countries outside of North America and also don't receive nearly as much radio play as they do on US stations. Stand Back has become more well known in countries where it wasn't a hit mainly due to its inclusion in FM shows since the late 1980s. How many people talk about Rock a Little or The Other Side of the Mirror or Street Angel nowadays? The only real lasting success in her solo career is Bella Donna. The majority of her other albums have long since left the public's consciousness and haven't been big catalogue sellers post 1980s. I read that Rock a Little has sold about 100,000 copies on CD since the early 1990s which isn't that great. Maybe if she reintroduced some of her other 1980s songs on tour then more people might seek out her other albums or finally buy the CDs after selling their original vinyl copies years ago or putting them in storage. She continues to ignore a good portion of her solo output (even big hits and well-known songs) when touring and that's been a problem. She needs to mix it up more and have more faith in her audience that they won't walk out if they hear a few more smaller hits or lesser-known album tracks instead of the usual mainstays that have rendered her set lists a little tired.


I honestly don't think she cares about the money. But she does care about sales because it is some kind of a metric on the quality of her album and the degree to which her fans did or did not embrace it. She wanted everyone to love it because she was so proud of it. Plus I'm sure there is a side of her that wishes she could go all in yer face to the naysayers who were telling her not to bother recording new music for the past ten years. Alas, the commercial reception of IYD only validated what they've been telling her; that has to sting.

You're crazy if you think Stevie doesn't care about the money. I highly doubt she continues to tour with Fleetwood Mac just for the fun of it.

[TheSorcerer]

IMHO, I think Stevie is right when she says that music business has changed and "It's such a different age now". The problem is not that her album isn't good, but the fact that people nowadays (specially younger generations) listen to crappy music, as Chris already said almost 20 years ago: “Learn your instrument. Be honest. Don't do anything phony. There is so much crap floating around. There is plenty of room for a bit of honest writing.”. Stevie write and sing honest music, but how can she fight against all the contrived, noisy and often meaningless songs that radio and tv stations feed us today? There's a complete fall style that reflects our society, so, in order to have fame and make money, today's artists adapt themselves and eventually all the songs sound alike. If you want to stay true to yourself, these are the disadvantages you will face. She doesn't need to change the way she write or sings to please her fans though, she shouldn't forget that there's still plenty of people who love good music and love her, so at this point of her career she shouldn't care anymore about poor sales: if you survived to 40 years of musical changes and you still sell 300,000 records worldwide in this age of decay, well... it means you are still way better than any anonymous and untalented singer that released a big hit but will disappears in just 1 or 2 years. Therefore, poor sales are more than welcome! :nod:

I don't think it's right or fair to generalise by saying that all younger people today listen to crappy music.

I agree on the crap that is produced today.It seems like most of the kids I know like the older music .then the current tunes.

Most are Autotuned since they cant sing for crap.

Stevie probably agrees with that but cant say it out in public.

I know a couple of older country music artists made statements that todays country music is not country music which I agree with them.

There's a lot of amazing music being made out there today, you just have to look past the top 40 to find a lot of it. HAIM, Lissie, Fossil Collective, First Aid Kit, Mat Kearney, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, Imagine Dragons, Florence + the Machine, Kathleen Edwards, Lauren Aquilina, Phoenix are just a few examples. It's not like there wasn't crap music released back in the 1980s.

[fairydust75]

She needs a reality check

Reality ? She lives on her own world, her own private Idaho....why would she want to leave her world and come to the real world with the rest of us. I try and escape into hers every chance I get....I like it there, it makes me happy...lol. :]

[Macfanforever]

I don't think it's right or fair to generalise by saying that all younger people today listen to crappy music.



There's a lot of amazing music being made out there today, you just have to look past the top 40 to find a lot of it. HAIM, Lissie, Fossil Collective, First Aid Kit, Mat Kearney, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, Imagine Dragons, Florence + the Machine, Kathleen Edwards, Lauren Aquilina, Phoenix are just a few examples. It's not like there wasn't crap music released back in the 1980s.

There was crap tunes released since music started 100 years ago.

I do love the 1980's though but until the rap crap started.

I like Haim. Adele .I hear alot of good things about Florence and the Machine.
I got to check those other mentioned.

I'm not condemning all of todays music sucks but most of it does.

Anything on the light side I can handle.I cant handle the whiny noise of guitars and screaming out tunes.Plus rap/hip hop crap.

I guess it goes on through generations.My parents liked the 1940's and 50's music and they said the 1960's and 70's was crap to their ears . I love those old tunes they enjoyed.

[KarmaContestant]

Radio doesnt really play songs from any artist over 40 so it wouldnt have matter if it was the best record ever they werent going to play it.

This is so true. Top-40 radio playing Stevie now would be like FM radio playing Sinatra or Ray Charles in the 70's. It just isn't going to happen.

[Chris_Lover]

I agree on the crap that is produced today.It seems like most of the kids I know like the older music .then the current tunes.

Most are Autotuned since they cant sing for crap.

Stevie probably agrees with that but cant say it out in public.

I know a couple of older country music artists made statements that todays country music is not country music which I agree with them.

I totally agree with you on that issue, and I agree with Holiday too about the fact that the biggest problem was the long span between albums!
Then, as TheSorcerer suggested, she should sing her 80s songs again during FM concerts, as she did in 1987 during the "Tango Tour".

[KarmaContestant]

I don't think it's right or fair to generalise by saying that all younger people today listen to crappy music.

There's a lot of amazing music being made out there today, you just have to look past the top 40 to find a lot of it. HAIM, Lissie, Fossil Collective, First Aid Kit, Mat Kearney, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, Imagine Dragons, Florence + the Machine, Kathleen Edwards, Lauren Aquilina, Phoenix are just a few examples. It's not like there wasn't crap music released back in the 1980s.

Indeed! I could name another two or three dozen artists that are *not* on the radio and *are* making great music that is not rap, hip-hop, club or techno. It really bugs the heck out of me when people make blanket statments about music today being crap. Usually it's because they genuinely haven't been exposed to the good stuff!

[Chris_Lover]

I don't think it's right or fair to generalise by saying that all younger people today listen to crappy music.
There's a lot of amazing music being made out there today (...). It's not like there wasn't crap music released back in the 1980s.

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well in my previous post. I'm not generalizing, I just talk about what I see and read everyday. Unluckily I live in a country where good music is dead at least 20 years ago, and this doesn't help. Of course there's a lot of young people who listen to good music and I realized it thanks to Tumblr. It always makes me happy to I discover that teenage people listen to FM, Beatles and Pink Floyd (for example) and it's true that there was a lot of crap music even back in the 80s, but if I have to choose, undoubtedly I'd choose 80s crap music: it still had a soul and wasn't just a terrible electronic noise like 80% of today's music. :)

[HejiraNYC]

Stevie's solo career has never really been as big outside of the US that it is (was?) inside. Her sales outside of the US aren't actually THAT impressive, especially when comparing them with other female rock singers like Tina Turner who has released a similar amount of albums to Stevie and is held in a similar regard by both critics and fans.

That's truly hysterical. Tina Turner is good at what she does, but she is the anti-Stevie in every way. She doesn't write her own songs. Her shows were all about glitz and choreography. She traded on her sex appeal in a very, very obvious way. She consciously recorded music that was first and foremost commercial and sellable. Stevie, on the other hand, became commercially successful despite her eccentricities and her insistence on doing things in her own idiosyncratic way. No, Stevie is not packing football stadiums in Hungary, but I don't think that is the kind of stardom she aspired to; she was not willing to "sell out" by recording other people's songs and dancing around in skimpy outfits.


Stevie has probably sold about 10 million records outside of the US, maybe a bit less than that. That isn't exactly bad going but it's also not amazing considering the level many of her fans place her on. I have to laugh when people in magazines and on TV claim she's sold 140 million albums worldwide. Fleetwood Mac's sales make up for about 120 million of that figure and shouldn't be counted towards Stevie's solo sales.

Of course she deserves to claim every single last copy of Rumours that was ever sold. Her songs and voice are on it! The only difference between a Fleetwood Mac album and a Stevie Nicks album is the fact that she shares credit and album real estate with other people.


She should swallow her pride and play smaller venues.

Why? The venues on her last tour looked pretty well filled to me. :shrug:


Then there's the lack of touring in a lot of countries. Tina Turner did the right thing and made her presence known as a live act outside of the US and built up a strong following that way. Stevie has virtually ignored many places for the majority of her solo career and that's been a problem.

I tend to think there is a taste level issue involved here, and it's not simply a matter of whether or not she promoted herself properly. Stevie has a very specific, binary appeal- either you get her or you don't get her. I don't know of many people who are simply indifferent. In the case of Europe, I just tend to think the European musical palette is different; they seem to be more admiring of "entertainers" versus "musicians," hence the immense popularity of non-songwriting singers like Tina Turner, Joe Cocker, Kylie Minogue, Anastacia, Bonnie Tyler, Tom Jones, etc. I think perhaps Americans are a bit more demanding of their performers. :lol:


Let's be honest here, her solo success peaked with her first album and was pretty much dead for the majority of the 1990s, plus the lack of new material between 2001 and 2011 has done her no favours. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to belittle her career or attack her, it's just that a lot of her impact and what people make reference to nowadays seems to be the work she's done with Fleetwood Mac and not her actual solo career. How many people talk about Rock a Little or The Other Side of the Mirror? Her only really lasting success in her solo career is Bella Donna.

Well, we also have to realize that Stevie was already 33 by the time she achieved superstardom as a solo artist; time was not on her side from the get-go. To her credit, and to all of FM's credit really, it is remarkable that a bunch of people pushing 50-55 years of age were able to sell 5 million copies of an album (The Dance). Considering her late start, she still had a brilliant solo career at a stage of life when many of her peers had fallen to the wayside to make room for the young 'uns.


You're crazy if you think Stevie doesn't care about the money. I highly doubt she continues to tour with Fleetwood Mac just for the fun of it.

And you're crazy if you think Stevie embarked on the journey of recording IYD with the idea of making mountains of money. She's no dummy. Recording/releasing new music today, except for an extremely small group of people, is a zero-sum game. A "hit album" today sells 400,000 copies today instead of 1,000,000. And if you are lucky enough to sell 400K and make $3 per album, having a "hit album" would mean getting a bit north of $1 million, which sounds like a decent sum. But it quickly disappears when you factor in taxes, recording/promotional expenses, salaries, artwork, lawyers, agents, etc. And it is even more paltry when you consider that she probably earns more money in one week on the road than she would by spending 10 months in the studio. If Stevie was truly in this for the money, she would be touring with Fleetwood Mac incessantly instead of writing and recording. Let the record reflect that she delayed the current Fleetwood Mac tour for year so that she could continue pursuing her less lucrative solo career.

[Chris_Lover]

It really bugs the heck out of me when people make blanket statments about music today being crap. Usually it's because they genuinely haven't been exposed to the good stuff!

No, it's not like this and I don't understand this attack towards my post. I'm not used to write stupid things or talk about something that is a "mystery to me". I don't like arguing and generally keep myself away from controversies. I've just expressed my opinion, everyone is free to do so and I didn't offend anyone. So, what's the problem? You know me to say that I'm not "exposed to good stuff", really? O_o
Believe me that I listen to a lot of today's music and that's why I can express my humble opinion, everyone has their own tastes. I'm not judging yours. I was born in 1983, I had enough time to listen to a lot of good and bad stuff to learn something about music during the years.
I know there are still good singers or groups today, for example Fleet Foxes (I love their "Mykonos" so much) or Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros (I dedicated their "Home"to my ex gf). I'm not saying that today ALL music is crap, but it's more difficult to find quality music. That's all. I hope I made myself clear this time.

PS: I wouldn't want to leave the forum again or report people to the admin. When you write here, as long as you respect other's opinion, you shouldn't feel afraid to write yours just to avoid being attacked.

[elle]

Let the record reflect that she delayed the current Fleetwood Mac tour for year so that she could continue pursuing her less lucrative solo career.
exactly! like touring solo with Rod Stewart instead of recording lucrative new album with the Mac.

(sorry couldn't resist. you know i am more than grateful to her for facilitating everything that happened in 2012 / OMS tour :xoxo:)

i'm waiting for some European fans reactions to your interesting proposition about what the differences are between the US vs the European market taste in music. ;)

[nicolasjz]

I tend to think there is a taste level issue involved here, and it's not simply a matter of whether or not she promoted herself properly. Stevie has a very specific, binary appeal- either you get her or you don't get her. I don't know of many people who are simply indifferent. In the case of Europe, I just tend to think the European musical palette is different; they seem to be more admiring of "entertainers" versus "musicians," hence the immense popularity of non-songwriting singers like Tina Turner, Joe Cocker, Kylie Minogue, Anastacia, Bonnie Tyler, Tom Jones, etc. I think perhaps Americans are a bit more demanding of their performers. :lol:



As a European I'm a little offended by what you just said. The idea that the U.S, the land of commercialism, entertainment, sacred money and vulgar and talentless popstars is "more demandingof its performers" is just laughable.

Let me just give you a short list of real, artistic songwriters who are more popular in Europe than in the US:
- Tom Waits
- David Bowie
- Bruce Springsteen (yes, the Boss can still fill stadiums in Europe, no longer in America)
- Leonard Cohen
- The Pixies
- Marianne Faithfull
- Neil Young
- Patti Smith
- Tracy Chapman
And countless others. You'll notice that many of them are actually American.

The reason why Stevie had no success whatsoever in Europe is simple: she's hardly ever toured there! Had she toured for Bella Donna and The Wild Heart, she certainly would have built a following there. By the time she finally came for OSOTM, she was nearing the nadir of her commercial success. And of course, she never went there ever again. As I said in another post, Stevie has only herself to blame for her lack of success in Europe.
At the same time you have to give credit to Tina Turner for going on these massive world tours and playing tirelessely in Europe. That she became a much bigger star there than Stevie is only logical and fair.

[michelej1]

In the case of Europe, I just tend to think the European musical palette is different; they seem to be more admiring of "entertainers" versus "musicians," hence the immense popularity of non-songwriting singers like Tina Turner, Joe Cocker, Kylie Minogue, Anastacia, Bonnie Tyler, Tom Jones, etc. I think perhaps Americans are a bit more demanding of their performers.


Oh, you're saying you don't think David Hasselhoff is a wonderful actor? I don't buy it.

Michele

[KarmaContestant]

No, it's not like this and I don't understand this attack towards my post. I'm not used to write stupid things or talk about something that is a "mystery to me". I don't like arguing and generally keep myself away from controversies. I've just expressed my opinion, everyone is free to do so and I didn't offend anyone. So, what's the problem? You know me to say that I'm not "exposed to good stuff", really? O_o


My post was not directed at you, personally. I meant, in general, that there are a lot of people - here on The Ledge, on other forums, in the office I work at, friends, family, et cetera, who complain about music not being good anymore. And, yes, it's because they aren't exposed to it. They're still listening to their albums by The Police from 1980 and wondering why there are "no good bands out there anymore" (a quote from a coworker)

I don't know you, your taste in music, or what you are and are not familiar with. I was speaking in generalizations, and not attacking you. My apologies for any misunderstanding. :)

[Chris_Lover]

In the case of Europe, I just tend to think the European musical palette is different; they seem to be more admiring of "entertainers" versus "musicians," hence the immense popularity of non-songwriting singers like Tina Turner, Joe Cocker, Kylie Minogue, Anastacia, Bonnie Tyler, Tom Jones, etc. I think perhaps Americans are a bit more demanding of their performers. :lol:

i'm waiting for some European fans reactions to your interesting proposition about what the differences are between the US vs the European market taste in music. ;)

I have to admit that you are right! As I wrote before, living in Italy means that you have to face crap music everyday. Italian society just admire vapid entertainment in spite of quality. For example, so you all can see that what I'm writing it's not just my opinion, yesterday evening I was watching "The voice" on tv: some of ours best singers said that Italy miss good songwriters and we really need to open up towards American music industry, because the can teach us a lot. Americans do it better, and it's true. Everytime I listen to US (or UK) music, I can't stop thinking: "God, why can't we be that good?". And I feel ashamed of my country.
How many times I wondered why Fleetwood Mac are not famous here and they never came in Italy for a concert (even if Stevie said she'd like to sing near Naples, where she wrote "Italian Summer"). I still don't have an answer for that, but I guess it's because all we listened to during the 60s and 70s was Mina, Lucio Battisti, The Pooh and other national singers. Easy music, easy money. Being a small-minded country, maybe it was "sinful" to spread the music of a group that, back then, was totally absorbed in drugs, alcohol, divorces/breakups. A country that only during the late 80s began to open up to foreign music, but that today has forgotten everything it learned and sold its soul to everything that is commercial, because it's like gold here. We have fallen into decay and banality and believe me, it's a pity because you can't even imagine how many italian FM fans there are out there!:nod:

[Chris_Lover]

My post was not directed at you, personally. I meant, in general (..). I don't know you, your taste in music, or what you are and are not familiar with. I was speaking in generalizations, and not attacking you. My apologies for any misunderstanding. :)

Don't worry, I understand and I'm sorry for the misundertanding too! ;):blob1:

[HejiraNYC]

As a European I'm a little offended by what you just said. The idea that the U.S, the land of commercialism, entertainment, sacred money and vulgar and talentless popstars is "more demandingof its performers" is just laughable.

Let me just give you a short list of real, artistic songwriters who are more popular in Europe than in the US:
- Tom Waits
- David Bowie
- Bruce Springsteen (yes, the Boss can still fill stadiums in Europe, no longer in America)
- Leonard Cohen
- The Pixies
- Marianne Faithfull
- Neil Young
- Patti Smith
- Tracy Chapman
And countless others. You'll notice that many of them are actually American.

The reason why Stevie had no success whatsoever in Europe is simple: she's hardly ever toured there! Had she toured for Bella Donna and The Wild Heart, she certainly would have built a following there. By the time she finally came for OSOTM, she was nearing the nadir of her commercial success. And of course, she never went there ever again. As I said in another post, Stevie has only herself to blame for her lack of success in Europe.
At the same time you have to give credit to Tina Turner for going on these massive world tours and playing tirelessely in Europe. That she became a much bigger star there than Stevie is only logical and fair.

No need to get your panties in a twist; my last comment was said in jest, as in :lol: . That aside, you can definitely see that there is a different musical palette in Europe, and I think it has little to do with touring. I know this is purely conjecture, but I think Stevie could tour Europe 365 shows a year and she still wouldn't be all that popular as a solo artist. She's had plenty of exposure to European audiences through her multiple tours of Europe with Fleetwood Mac, so people definitely know about her. But for whatever reason, they haven't embraced her as a solo artist. If they aren't buying her solo records, chances are they are not going to go out and see her shows.

Also, the examples you cite are false/misleading:

Marianne Faithfull is not a songwriter.
Bruce Springsteen is still definitely a stadium attraction in the U.S.
Leonard Cohen is an arena-sized attraction (sold out Madison Square Garden) in the U.S.
Neil Young is immensely popular in the U.S.; also able to sell out multiple nights at arenas.

[nicolasjz]

No need to get your panties in a twist; my last comment was said in jest, as in :lol: . That aside, you can definitely see that there is a different musical palette in Europe, and I think it has little to do with touring. I know this is purely conjecture, but I think Stevie could tour Europe 365 shows a year and she still wouldn't be all that popular as a solo artist. She's had plenty of exposure to European audiences through her multiple tours of Europe with Fleetwood Mac, so people definitely know about her. But for whatever reason, they haven't embraced her as a solo artist. If they aren't buying her solo records, chances are they are not going to go out and see her shows.

Also, the examples you cite are false/misleading:

Marianne Faithfull is not a songwriter.
Bruce Springsteen is still definitely a stadium attraction in the U.S.
Leonard Cohen is an arena-sized attraction (sold out Madison Square Garden) in the U.S.
Neil Young is immensely popular in the U.S.; also able to sell out multiple nights at arenas.

I can't imagine that if she had done a European tour for BD or WH it wouldn't have made a difference. I mean, at that time touring made a huge difference in an artist's commercial success and a fantastic performer like Stevie would certainly have made an impression on European fans. It's not enough for her to tour with FM. It was a three-vocalist band, plus in many European markets (at least in France), the person most associated with FM is actually Peter Green. So I'm convinced that had she toured Europe when she was at her peak in the early 80s it would have made her at least reasonably popular.

Also:
- Marianne Faithfull is a songwriter. True, she rarely pens her songs single-handedly like Stevie often does but still.
- Look at Bruce's last tours. In Europe he plays stadiums almost exclusively and always sells out. In America, except for key markets (New Jersey, Boston) he only plays sports arenas and even there he often doesn't sell out. On his last tour barely half of his American concerts were sold out.
- Leonard Cohen's last record was his first top 50 studio album ever in America and his first top 100 album in 43 years! On the whole his albums have been way more successful in Europe.

[KarmaContestant]

i'm waiting for some European fans reactions to your interesting proposition about what the differences are between the US vs the European market taste in music. ;)

:laugh:

I'm American, but at this stage of my life I find European music to be much better - most of my favorite music is from European artists. OK, well, primarily British, but that still counts.

[michelej1]

My post was not directed at you, personally. I meant, in general, that there are a lot of people - here on The Ledge, on other forums, in the office I work at, friends, family, et cetera, who complain about music not being good anymore. And, yes, it's because they aren't exposed to it. They're still listening to their albums by The Police from 1980 and wondering why there are "no good bands out there anymore" (a quote from a coworker)



Yes, there was an article about baby boomers clinging to their old music. I think I put it in MacNuggets, because Fleetwood Mac was mentioned. I tend to hear new country music all the time, but otherwise you basically have to get the media attention bestowed on Adele for me to realize that you're alive. My music exploration stopped when I was about 30:laugh:.

Michele

[KarmaContestant]

Yes, there was an article about baby boomers clinging to their old music. I think I put it in MacNuggets, because Fleetwood Mac was mentioned. I tend to hear new country music all the time, but otherwise you basically have to get the media attention bestowed on Adele for me to realize that you're alive. My music exploration stopped when I was about 30:laugh:.

Michele

I'll be 40 in August, but I'm lucky to have a lot of friends who are very much into whatever music no one is listening to yet. Once it's popular, they move on. I get a lot of recommendations from various people - and of all places - iTunes. iTunes has a feature that selects music for you based on what you've purchased previously, and more often than not, it's been *spot on*, for me anyway. It also helps that I like a very wide variety of genres. While I like to say that I'm not a fan of rap, hip-hop or country, I surprise myself with how much of this stuff I actually do enjoy.

My local record store plays a lot of stuff that I near while shopping, which I end up buying. Speaking of country (well, kind of) I discovered Neko Case this way, and was amazed that she had been around for so long and had somehow escaped my music radar.

What I really wish for are radio stations with DJs that think for themselves and play their own sets. I want to hear songs on the radio by artists I've never heard of before!

[Chris_Lover]

Yes, there was an article about baby boomers clinging to their old music. I think I put it in MacNuggets, because Fleetwood Mac was mentioned. I tend to hear new country music all the time, but otherwise you basically have to get the media attention bestowed on Adele for me to realize that you're alive. My music exploration stopped when I was about 30:laugh:.

Michele

No kidding, I live as if I was in the late 70s-early 80s too (and I don't regret it), but I like Adele :D It doesn't mean that if a person is still stuck in the past, they don't know or listen to today's music. I'm just very, very selective (complicated maybe?).

[jkmaletic]

:laugh:

I'm American, but at this stage of my life I find European music to be much better - most of my favorite music is from European artists. OK, well, primarily British, but that still counts.

Have you heard of the band, "A Silent Film"? They're a great, new-ish band from Britain. They're fantastic!

As far as the subject of this thread goes, I think what Stevie said was kinda taken out of context, as there's another thread that was posted today having to do with her saying the complete opposite (that she's learned not to get so caught up in the sale numbers, with today's very different music business.) I was glad to hear this, as I'm hoping she records another solo record next year. I love Fleetwood Mac, and love seeing them live. I love watching Lindsey do his thing in person, with the rest of the gang on stage all together, but I really, really DON'T want another Mac album. I don't like the new EP, at all.
I believe Lindsey and Stevie are better off with solo careers at this point, unless Christine comes back. That's not gonna happen though.


Jamie

[Macfanforever]

Yes, there was an article about baby boomers clinging to their old music. I think I put it in MacNuggets, because Fleetwood Mac was mentioned. I tend to hear new country music all the time, but otherwise you basically have to get the media attention bestowed on Adele for me to realize that you're alive. My music exploration stopped when I was about 30:laugh:.

Michele

I'm sure one of them.LOL..

[Chris_Lover]

but I really, really DON'T want another Mac album. I don't like the new EP, at all.
I believe Lindsey and Stevie are better off with solo careers at this point, unless Christine comes back. That's not gonna happen though.
Jamie

Me too I'm not totally pleased about the new songs. Except for Miss Fantasy (my fav). They sound totally different from the classic FM style we all love, and I agree with you on the fact that, at this point, maybe Chris will never work with them again... :shrug:

[tabruns]

You guys are all over-reacting, and frankly, the title of the article is off-base. Nicks wasn't whining about the album sales. If you actually watch the video you can see that for yourself. She was making a point about how little albums sell these days.

In fact, she was *proud* that IYD sold 300,000 because, as she said, she "sold every one of those 300,000 copies" without any major support from the record company. And this wasn't a slam on the record company either - she stated that with album sales being low, companies don't have the money to support albums like they used to.

So the entire sequence was her talking about how she went out for 2 straight years and worked hard and sold IYD and she was proud of that. The article completely misunderstood this, and most of you bought it hook line and sinker.

[johnnystorms]

You guys are all over-reacting, and frankly, the title of the article is off-base. Nicks wasn't whining about the album sales. If you actually watch the video you can see that for yourself. She was making a point about how little albums sell these days.

In fact, she was *proud* that IYD sold 300,000 because, as she said, she "sold every one of those 300,000 copies" without any major support from the record company. And this wasn't a slam on the record company either - she stated that with album sales being low, companies don't have the money to support albums like they used to.

So the entire sequence was her talking about how she went out for 2 straight years and worked hard and sold IYD and she was proud of that. The article completely misunderstood this, and most of you bought it hook line and sinker.

a voice of sanity, at last! i LOVE this forum, but it seems to have deteriorated into Camp Stevie, Camp Lindsey, and Camp Bitch About Everything!!!

[tabruns]

If it was a great record it would have sold. C'mon now, it sounds like an 80's record with poor production with almost all of the songs hovering over 6 minutes. There's was no monster single and certainly no great follow up single. I would blame Dave Stewart but who knows? Glen Ballard did the same thing to IYD as he did to the last Annie Lennox record - he made it sound generic.

Bull. Record sales are way down and Nicks is a legacy artist. IYD IS a great record, whether you can hear that or not, and album sales are not the only yardstick to measure by.

[johnnystorms]

Bull. Record sales are way down and Nicks is a legacy artist. IYD IS a great record, whether you can hear that or not, and album sales are not the only yardstick to measure by.

not to mention, IYD is FAR from generic! it totally captures her unique mystique, while branching off into blue-sy numbers (You May Be the One) and torch songs (Italian Summer)

[tabruns]

not to mention, IYD is FAR from generic! it totally captures her unique mystique, while branching off into blue-sy numbers (You May Be the One) and torch songs (Italian Summer)

I agree. I really think IYD is on par with Bella Donna. There are some truly great songs on the album, and I can't think of one clunker (yes, I like "Cheaper Than Free").

[Jondalar]

I agree. I really think IYD is on par with Bella Donna. There are some truly great songs on the album, and I can't think of one clunker (yes, I like "Cheaper Than Free").

I like every song off the album, too. It was the best thing she has done since the 80s.

[johnnystorms]

I agree. I really think IYD is on par with Bella Donna. There are some truly great songs on the album, and I can't think of one clunker (yes, I like "Cheaper Than Free").

i was sold on Cheaper Than Free with the lyric, "more important than freedom, being needed"

[Chris_Lover]

a voice of sanity, at last! i LOVE this forum, but it seems to have deteriorated into Camp Stevie, Camp Lindsey, and Camp Bitch About Everything!!!

That's what I thought! Peace, Brothers & Sisters! :D

Nicks wasn't whining about the album sales. If you actually watch the video you can see that for yourself. She was making a point about how little albums sell these days.

In fact, she was *proud* that IYD sold 300,000 because, as she said, she "sold every one of those 300,000 copies" without any major support from the record company

Finally, this clarifies all doubts. Thanks, tabruns :)

[Dex]

Yeesh. Glad some reason has finally been injected into this discussion. :)

This is great example of irresponsible, tabloid-y journalism. The article completely overstates and misinterprets the meaning of a minor, off-the-cuff remark, and everyone takes it at face value. Even if you just look at the quote presented out of context, all she really said was that IYD sold fewer copies than she'd grown accustomed to in her heyday. That's all she said. The "disappointment" was completely fabricated. No reality-check needed.

[David]

Stevie needs to focus less on sales and more on her craft.
I like what you say in the rest of your post, but I snipped it to add to this: If Stevie wants to see sales on fire again, she should write a book. Imagine how big a Stevie Nicks memoir would be—New York Times bestseller list, here we come!

[michelej1]

I like what you say in the rest of your post, but I snipped it to add to this: If Stevie wants to see sales on fire again, she should write a book. Imagine how big a Stevie Nicks memoir would be—New York Times bestseller list, here we come!

You think so? I highly doubt her book would generate that many sales generally, but it would certainly be invaluable to fans of Stevie and FM alike. I mean it would hit the NYT bestseller list I agree, but I don't think it would stay there for long. And I don't think it would be a rock tome that would attract music lovers as a whole. I mean a book like that could be written by a female rocker, but our rocker is not the one.

I think Stevie's book would be so Nicksentric that I'm not sure how much insight it would give into music or the eighties or the culture as a whole. I think it would be for FM lovers. It would come out the gates with lots of reviews and great sales, but then I don't think it would go very far, because of the isolated, rather than wide view, stories it would tell.

David, tell us what you think of the piano playing on Miss Fantasy and It Takes Time, if you get a chance.

Michele

[nicolasjz]

You think so? I highly doubt her book would generate that many sales generally, but it would certainly be invaluable to fans of Stevie and FM alike. I mean it would hit the NYT bestseller list I agree, but I don't think it would stay there for long. And I don't think it would be a rock tome that would attract music lovers as a whole. I mean a book like that could be written by a female rocker, but our rocker is not the one.

I think Stevie's book would be so Nicksentric that I'm not sure how much insight it would give into music or the eighties or the culture as a whole. I think it would be for FM lovers. It would come out the gates with lots of reviews and great sales, but then I don't think it would go very far, because of the isolated, rather than wide view, stories it would tell.

David, tell us what you think of the piano playing on Miss Fantasy and It Takes Time, if you get a chance.

Michele

Well Ann and Nancy Wilson's memoirs sold very well, didn't they? If they could make a bestseller, I don't see why Stevie couldn't.

[Dex]

^ I think Michele thinks it would be a bestseller, but kind of the flash-in-the-pan variety. It wouldn't be artistically "important" or particularly insightful, and would probably be quickly forgotten by the masses, relegated to the hardcore-fan-only shelf.

At least, that's what I got from her post. I happen to agree. Another album would have a lot more longevity for more people, IMO. But a book could be fun, too, I guess. If it's a story she really feels compelled to tell.

[vivfox]

I like every song off the album (IYD), too. It was the best thing she has done since the 80s.


This is the same Ledgie who constantly complained that one of the tracks was too long, coming in at six minutes.:laugh:

[Jondalar]

This is the same Ledgie who constantly complained that one of the tracks was too long, coming in at six minutes.:laugh:

I liked the songs but there were about five songs that were too long.

[Jondalar]

Well Ann and Nancy Wilson's memoirs sold very well, didn't they? If they could make a bestseller, I don't see why Stevie couldn't.

Did anyone on here read Ann and Nancy's memoir? Is it worth picking up?

[kak125]

Did anyone on here read Ann and Nancy's memoir? Is it worth picking up?

i read it a while ago and it was very good. i was surprised that they were so candid about everything. my sister as well as my dad read it and thought that it was great. very interesting stuff about their family too.

[bombaysaffires]

i read it a while ago and it was very good. i was surprised that they were so candid about everything. my sister as well as my dad read it and thought that it was that great. very interesting stuff about their family too.

ah, there's the (potential) rub with a Stevie book....how candid *would* she be?? I know she thinks she's terribly candid about her life, and in some areas she is, but only the areas she chooses. When you write a book people naturally expect that you will not only be honest about the events you talk about, but your own role in them... and you include the not-so-pretty parts along with the magical ones. that's where the doubt comes in. Stevie is very controlling of her story and her image and as we know not always very self-aware let alone self-critical. A fluff tale would not sustain sales to a wide audience.

[kak125]

ah, there's the (potential) rub with a Stevie book....how candid *would* she be?? I know she thinks she's terribly candid about her life, and in some areas she is, but only the areas she chooses. When you write a book people naturally expect that you will not only be honest about the events you talk about, but your own role in them... and you include the not-so-pretty parts along with the magical ones. that's where the doubt comes in. Stevie is very controlling of her story and her image and as we know not always very self-aware let alone self-critical. A fluff tale would not sustain sales to a wide audience.

yeah i dont see her being that candid with her book. ann and nancy wilson talk about their sex lives pretty openly and i dont see stevie ever doing that. nancy also talks about her divorce as well.

[WildHearted]

ah, there's the (potential) rub with a Stevie book....how candid *would* she be?? I know she thinks she's terribly candid about her life, and in some areas she is, but only the areas she chooses. When you write a book people naturally expect that you will not only be honest about the events you talk about, but your own role in them... and you include the not-so-pretty parts along with the magical ones. that's where the doubt comes in. Stevie is very controlling of her story and her image and as we know not always very self-aware let alone self-critical. A fluff tale would not sustain sales to a wide audience.

Stevie has pretty much said that her book would be all the magical moments (meeting Lindsey, joining FM, etc etc) and she wouldn't put all the terrible stuff in there because if someone wants to know about the terrible stuff they can read/watch interviews from the past four decades.

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie has pretty much said that her book would be all the magical moments (meeting Lindsey, joining FM, etc etc) and she wouldn't put all the terrible stuff in there because if someone wants to know about the terrible stuff they can read/watch interviews from the past four decades.

oh I think we BARELY know the gritty side of her life/career. It's been hinted at by a few people around her (Paul Fishkin, for one, talking about the "near overdoses" and having to "scrape her off the floor" and such)... so yeah, we know bad stuff happened, but we don't know nearly the half of it.

and frankly, I find just reading about all the good stuff in someone's life is a bit tedious....and can, if not well done, come off like bragging. (or delusional). The gritty parts add more meaning to the happy parts. I think of someone like, say, Liz Taylor. You could really write her off as a spoiled rich biatch but you see the trials and tribulations and falling and getting up parts and you really feel happy for her when you read the good parts of her life. I think if Stevie were to write about ALL that stuff, it would not only be fascinating but would grab more people.

But as always, it's her life, and it's her choice how to tell it.

[bluecalmsea]

oh I think we BARELY know the gritty side of her life/career. It's been hinted at by a few people around her (Paul Fishkin, for one, talking about the "near overdoses" and having to "scrape her off the floor" and such)... so yeah, we know bad stuff happened, but we don't know nearly the half of it.

and frankly, I find just reading about all the good stuff in someone's life is a bit tedious....and can, if not well done, come off like bragging. (or delusional). The gritty parts add more meaning to the happy parts. I think of someone like, say, Liz Taylor. You could really write her off as a spoiled rich biatch but you see the trials and tribulations and falling and getting up parts and you really feel happy for her when you read the good parts of her life. I think if Stevie were to write about ALL that stuff, it would not only be fascinating but would grab more people.

But as always, it's her life, and it's her choice how to tell it.

So true- I completely agree with everything you said.

[WildHearted]

oh I think we BARELY know the gritty side of her life/career. It's been hinted at by a few people around her (Paul Fishkin, for one, talking about the "near overdoses" and having to "scrape her off the floor" and such)... so yeah, we know bad stuff happened, but we don't know nearly the half of it.

and frankly, I find just reading about all the good stuff in someone's life is a bit tedious....and can, if not well done, come off like bragging. (or delusional). The gritty parts add more meaning to the happy parts. I think of someone like, say, Liz Taylor. You could really write her off as a spoiled rich biatch but you see the trials and tribulations and falling and getting up parts and you really feel happy for her when you read the good parts of her life. I think if Stevie were to write about ALL that stuff, it would not only be fascinating but would grab more people.

But as always, it's her life, and it's her choice how to tell it.

Oh, I agree. I'm just repeating what Stevie has said recently about the subject.

[Jondalar]

i read it a while ago and it was very good. i was surprised that they were so candid about everything. my sister as well as my dad read it and thought that it was great. very interesting stuff about their family too.

Thank you. I think I'm going to buy it. I doubt Stevie would be candid about everything. Too many of her star friends would have to be mentioned.

[michelej1]

When I read those autobiographies when they just talk about what everyone else did but never say what THEY did, their credibility is shot for me. If you're that protective of yourself, there's no need to write a book.

BombaySaffires you were correct in indicating that Stevie lacks the objectivity or self-awareness needed to pen a book that would be as compelling as her life story could be.

I did think it was amusing in IYD when she talked about stealing Mike's song from Tom Petty's demo tape. I don't know how that thing accidentally made its way into her purse, but she kept saying that she STOLE it and, embraced the embarrassment she created for herself 30 years ago.

You know, on a larger scale, if you could do a whole book from that perspective where you are like a mother to your younger self and you have just as much love, but you also have distance and can recognize and discuss the missteps you made with clarity and honesty and lay them on the table without feeling that you're costing your current self respect, then that's when you're ready to tell the world about who you are in print.

Michele

[Macfanforever]

When I read those autobiographies when they just talk about what everyone else did but never say what THEY did, their credibility is shot for me. If you're that protective of yourself, there's no need to write a book.

BombaySaffires you were correct in indicating that Stevie lacks the objectivity or self-awareness needed to pen a book that would be as compelling as her life story could be.

I did think it was amusing in IYD when she talked about stealing Mike's song from Tom Petty's demo tape. I don't know how that thing accidentally made its way into her purse, but she kept saying that she STOLE it and, embraced the embarrassment she created for herself 30 years ago.

You know, on a larger scale, if you could do a whole book from that perspective where you are like a mother to your younger self and you have just as much love, but you also have distance and can recognize and discuss the missteps you made with clarity and honesty and lay them on the table without feeling that you're costing your current self respect, then that's when you're ready to tell the world about who you are in print.

Michele

I'm glad they did not called the police on her hahaha.

This reminds me when I had some friends over about 30 years ago and somebody helped themselves to some cassettes that I had on the table.

Don't ask me why they wanted 3 self recorded tapes of country music and a part of a live Mel Tillis concert that I recorded a month earlier.

They all dont like country music.

I cant pinpoint who did it but I was will alert the next time they were around.

[vivfox]

This reminds me when I had some friends over about 30 years ago and somebody helped themselves to some cassettes that I had on the table.


I can't believe you still remember this.

They probably needed some blank cassettes and yours were readily available.

[michelej1]

Don't ask me why they wanted 3 self recorded tapes of country music and a part of a live Mel Tillis concert that I recorded a month earlier.

They all dont like country music.

I cant pinpoint who did it but I was will alert the next time they were around.

If they stole that, then you know they would take many other things. Too bad you never found out who did it. That led you to vaguely be suspicious of everyone who was there, which is a sad thing.

My recordings are so bad that no one else wants to even listen to them, much less take them from me. I remember sneaking recordings into concerts way back when. Putting black tape over the red light, so I wouldn't get caught by security. The sound was terrible, but it reminded me of being there and helped me relive the night, so it sounded good to me.

In the music business, I bet that happened a lot. If I were them, I would be paranoid about letting anyone have access to my demos. I certainly wouldn't let them lie around at parties. From the stories we've heard, it doesn't seem like other artists steal your music, but friends and hangers on sure expose it to a lot of people before you were ready to share it with the world at large.

Michele

[Macfanforever]

I can't believe you still remember this.

They probably needed some blank cassettes and yours were readily available.

No I dont forget those kind of things.

Yes .I agree .I got a feeling they needed blank tapes.I talked to my friend at the time which was there at the time and he might knew who did it but could not accused them for taking it.

He said he does not use the same tape grade that I use in which I do believe him and seen his vast tape collection later.

This happen around 1980 or 1981 before Belladonna came out.

I would of killed somebody if it was Stevie/FM tapes.


If they stole that, then you know they would take many other things. Too bad you never found out who did it. That led you to vaguely be suspicious of everyone who was there, which is a sad thing.

My recordings are so bad that no one else wants to even listen to them, much less take them from me. I remember sneaking recordings into concerts way back when. Putting black tape over the red light, so I wouldn't get caught by security. The sound was terrible, but it reminded me of being there and helped me relive the night, so it sounded good to me.

In the music business, I bet that happened a lot. If I were them, I would be paranoid about letting anyone have access to my demos. I certainly wouldn't let them lie around at parties. From the stories we've heard, it doesn't seem like other artists steal your music, but friends and hangers on sure expose it to a lot of people before you were ready to share it with the world at large.

Michele

Since this was when I was living home with my parents.

I think this happen when my mother called me to do something for her.

She could not wait for the guys to leave which I believe they were there for an hour or more. She needed what ever what had to be done , done now.

I did not notice anything other missing.After that I watched like a hawk when anybody is over and near my records/tapes and equipment.

My mom said noting else in the house was stolen at the time.

What a shame when friends got to be sneaky and steal from you.


Yes I was luck that I did copy the live tape before it disappeared .I did record the show live with a full sized AM/FM cassette portable and nobody cared at the time to check for those items .I had my hoodie or windbreaker over it as I walked in.The show came out great.


I was shock when Stevie said that in the docu.I said oh my god Stevie in my mind.

[Macfanforever]

I always said the sales are low for IYD.So is 300.000 is low these days for an older artists,

I dont blame her to be upset about crappy sales.I would be pissed off too.

[WildHearted]

I don't think it's low for an older artist, necessarily. But it's not what she achieved with TISL.

[PolishStevieFan]

Well sometimes big stars just stop selling big quantity of their records. Just look at Barbra Streisand's last two albums, they did not even sell 200.000 copies in US (I'm talking about "Release Me" and "What Matters Most"). I think that "In Your Dreams" sold decently as far as her age and huge gap between solo albums are concerned. Bonnie Raitt's latest effort also has not gone Gold yet and as we all remember she was huge seller in the late 80's and early to mid 90's. Stevie should be happy that still her album debuted in the Top 10. Other female rock acts can only dream of this kind of commercial success (just look at Benatar's or Rickie Lee Jones' latest chart trajectories).

[peer_gynt10]

Stevie's solo career has never really been as big outside of the US that it is (was?) inside. Her sales outside of the US aren't actually THAT impressive, especially when comparing them with other female rock singers like Tina Turner who has released a similar amount of albums to Stevie and is held in a similar regard by both critics and fans.

Then there's the lack of touring in a lot of countries. Tina Turner did the right thing and made her presence known as a live act outside of the US and built up a strong following that way. Stevie has virtually ignored many places for the majority of her solo career and that's been a problem.

It's really Fleetwood Mac that has kept her in the public's consciousness for years now, especially in places like Europe where she's only really talked about when she's part of the group. She would have been old news years ago had it not been for the many FM reunion tours since the 1990s that she's participated in and which have upped her profile during the quieter periods of her solo career. Take Trouble in Shangri-La and Enchanted for example. I highly doubt either would have done as well as they did in the US had The Dance not happened in the late 1990s and reinvigorated interest in her.


You're crazy if you think Stevie doesn't care about the money. I highly doubt she continues to tour with Fleetwood Mac just for the fun of it.

What a well-written and accurate post. I agree whole-heartedly with most of what you write. Having lived in Europe for many decades, I always found it frustrating how Stevie not only ignored the world outside of the US when touring, but was blatantly ignorant of her potential market when writing her comments about 'B-Sides that only went to Europe' in the Enchanted booklet. How condescending! As if the rest of the world didn't exist and would never consider buying her albums. Well, boo-hoo if people don't care. Interestingly, Tina's Foreign Affair turned out to be the biggest album of her career in Europe (yes, Foreign Affair, not Private Dancer).

Having said that, one thing that did contribute a lot to Stevie's newfound popularity and visibility in Europe in the late 1990s was not necessarily The Dance reunion (after all, the only performed in the UK due to Christine's unwillingness to extend the tour), but the many cover and live versions that 'hot' and 'alternative' artists (Smashing Pumpkins, Hole, Sheryl Crow, Tori Amos) and pop artists such as The Corrs performed. In all fairness, no one in FM has been embraced this much by a younger generations of musicians (even in later years, think Deep Dish, Dixie Chicks, Dave Grohl). Stevie coulda/shoulda/woulda used that momentum in the late 1990s to reconnect with people as a solo artist instead of just being focused on the US, which arguably is the biggest record market in the world. TISL was totally ignored in Europe, so what chance did IYD stand?

Okay, I'll stop ranting.

[peer_gynt10]

PS: Don't get me wrong, I adore the woman. And her ego :laugh:

[bethelblues]

Honestly, maybe the album cover had more of an impact in the low sales than Stevie may think. It is the first thing the public sees when they consider buying music. When I saw it, I was like barf. I was kind of embarrassed for her. That mystical quality is always there, it's ingrained, she doesn't need to hit us over the head with it. It spoke more to the style of a much younger artist (Taylor Swift or Katy Perry-esque) and I thought it was corny. I would've gone with a more artistic cover, some kind of collage or montage maybe of her different dreams together: the moonlight, Italy, the ocean, a road trip. I'm trying to speak to the mystical element and how in recent years it may sometimes come off as kitsch when Stevie tries to recreate the magic of her early career and goes over the top.

Also, I really appreciated reading the comparisons to Tina Turner, who I love. Thanks for that. I wonder if Stevie has ever met her (Does anyone know?). Tina was managed extremely well in her solo career with Roger Davies. They knew exactly where to target certain audiences, to build her Let's Stay Together and then Private Dancer comeback in the U.K. rather than the U.S. Her world tours were simply huge, filling the largest stadiums, and no one can match the energy and electricity Tina has given in her live performances. Her voice also kept much of its power for such a long time! She has always been beloved in Europe, more than her own country where I live, though obviously her tours sold out instantly everywhere. She also has the distinction of being the single highest selling solo act of all time. And Tina's public image is absolutely sterling.

There is actually a lot of similarity between Tina and Stevie: they both have a backstory that compels audiences, they persevered, they are rock icons, and are known for their one of a kind voices. Tina was never really a songwriter, which gives Stevie a different kind of respect. But Stevie hasn't been managed as well and, like Fleetwood Mac, didn't capitalize on certain peak instances in their career as some people have said. Tina pretty much swept the Grammys in 1985, with huge industry support and love. In the 90s, she knew to go back on the road following the What's Love Got to Do With It biopic, which received several key Oscar nominations, and put out an album following her Bond song Goldeneye. She used the fake retirement tour card several times to bring the crowds. I agree with what was said: Stevie didn't really ride the momentum of The Dance and jump on her newfound relevance. Many up and coming artists have turned to Stevie for inspiration, covering her enduring songs, which didn't happen so much with Tina Turner. I honestly think many young people didn't really connect with In Your Dreams, but instead connect to and continue to return to Stevie's older music. It's very hard for her to recapture that essence, but maybe just maybe following this hugely successful Fleetwood Mac tour she will be inspired to create new music with the band and maintain her relevance.

[Dex]

Honestly, maybe the album cover had more of an impact in the low sales than Stevie may think. It is the first thing the public sees when they consider buying music. When I saw it, I was like barf. I was kind of embarrassed for her. That mystical quality is always there, it's ingrained, she doesn't need to hit us over the head with it. It spoke more to the style of a much younger artist (Taylor Swift or Katy Perry-esque) and I thought it was corny.

Have Stevie's album covers ever been all that great, though? Trouble in Shangri-La and Crystal Visions are the only ones I can think of that I particularly like, and even they're kind of "eh". She just seems to settle on a cover that seems passably marketable, even though they never really match the album's contents very well.

While we've established that Stevie herself isn't actually really disappointed with IYD's sales, it's clear in this thread that a lot of fans really are, and continue to be puzzled by it. I find that very interesting. Stevie's made a transition from pop megastar to cult singer-songwriter, and I think, because she pulls in a huge nostalgia-seeking audience as a live act, that's a fact that's not always easy to see. There's a huge discrepancy between the crowds she draws as a live act and the albums she sells, because those nostalgia-seeking audience members just aren't interested in new material from her. The fact is, she has a core fanbase that loves her work, but outside of that, her new material just isn't going to create all that much buzz no matter what. We can pick apart whatever flaws in her career we like, but essentially she isn't ever going to be able to get it "right" in terms of hitting a commercial sweet-spot. She just isn't an artist with a broad appeal anymore. I think that's just fine.

[bluefox4000]

Have Stevie's album covers ever been all that great, though? Trouble in Shangri-La and Crystal Visions are the only ones I can think of that I particularly like, and even they're kind of "eh". She just seems to settle on a cover that seems passably marketable, even though they never really match the album's contents very well.

While we've established that Stevie herself isn't actually really disappointed with IYD's sales, it's clear in this thread that a lot of fans really are, and continue to be puzzled by it. I find that very interesting. Stevie's made a transition from pop megastar to cult singer-songwriter, and I think, because she pulls in a huge nostalgia-seeking audience as a live act, that's a fact that's not always easy to see. There's a huge discrepancy between the crowds she draws as a live act and the albums she sells, because those nostalgia-seeking audience members just aren't interested in new material from her. The fact is, she has a core fanbase that loves her work, but outside of that, her new material just isn't going to create all that much buzz no matter what. We can pick apart whatever flaws in her career we like, but essentially she isn't ever going to be able to get it "right" in terms of hitting a commercial sweet-spot. She just isn't an artist with a broad appeal anymore. I think that's just fine.

Real truth spoken. You hit the nail on the head.

Mick

[The Catdancer]

What I don't get is that people keep comparing Stevie to Tina Turner. Tina was already huge in Europe (with Ike) before she came back with Let's Stay Together. Everybody remembered her from the 60's and early 70's. Stevie was a nobody in that time period. What she should have done was come to Europe and promote her solo records. Especially BD, people were starting to forget her and whenever you mentioned FM they'd know her as the "blonde with the top hat". Record companies wanted her to come over to do promo tours for BD, WH and RAL but she cancelled every single time. By the time TOSOTM was released and she finally did come over, it was too late. She performed at a show called Rock Over Europe and 90% of the people had no idea who she was. I don't know about other countries but the show in The Netherlands (Nov. 1989) wasn't sold out. The arena was half full and half of those people came to see Richard Marx. It was all downhill from there (solo wise).

[shackin'up]

What I don't get is that people keep comparing Stevie to Tina Turner. Tina was already huge in Europe (with Ike) before she came back with Let's Stay Together. Everybody remembered her from the 60's and early 70's. Stevie was a nobody in that time period. What she should have done was come to Europe and promote her solo records. Especially BD, people were starting to forget her and whenever you mentioned FM they'd know her as the "blonde with the top hat". Record companies wanted her to come over to do promo tours for BD, WH and RAL but she cancelled every single time. By the time TOSOTM was released and she finally did come over, it was too late. She performed at a show called Rock Over Europe and 90% of the people had no idea who she was. I don't know about other countries but the show in The Netherlands (Nov. 1989) wasn't sold out. The arena was half full and half of those people came to see Richard Marx. It was all downhill from there (solo wise).

Exactly. I was at that weird Marx-Nicks show. They had to shut down the upper ring of the arena and they curtained it. the show was seated, on loose chairs, because we never do that in AHOY, Rotterdam. It was a bit of a sad atmosphere, although she did some songs that came out great, HAEWAFY, Edge of 17, the whole show was lackluster. She almost fell from stage, I was in awe that I saw her live, but was very dissapointed too. She never totally won me back since then. In the Netherlands, in the public eye she indeed is still the beautiful girl from GYOW.
OK, and Dreams and a little bit from Sara.

[bethelblues]

Well, I think the point of the Tina Turner comparison was to look at how both were managed, and how one capitalized on certain high points in her career and one didn't. In fact, Fleetwood Mac has also showed similar lack of direction, again probably coming from the fact that every member had a separate management team which made it hard to make decisions quickly and get everyone on the same page. That was my reading of the initial post on Turner and why I wanted to expand on it, as I do think that Tina and Stevie have quite a few similarities, genre of music of rock transitioning to adult contemporary, the backstories that compel people to want to see them, the big hair.


What she should have done was come to Europe and promote her solo records. Especially BD, people were starting to forget her and whenever you mentioned FM they'd know her as the "blonde with the top hat". Record companies wanted her to come over to do promo tours for BD, WH and RAL but she cancelled every single time. By the time TOSOTM was released and she finally did come over, it was too late.

This was well said.

[HejiraNYC]

I find the comparisons between Stevie and Tina Turner to be beyond absurd. The biggest and most obvious distinction: Stevie is an artist and Tina is a singer. Big difference. Of course Tina is an exceptionally gifted entertainer with a big, unique voice. And she has recorded some great songs (written/produced by some of the most successful writers/producers in the business). But Tina is a singer who entertains for the sake of entertainment, which is a means to her ultimate objective of making a lot of money. Her entire post-1980 career was managed accordingly. Tina was a chameleon who adapted herself in whatever means necessary to be commercially successful. If they needed a rock song, an R&B song or a torchy power ballad, all they had to do was reach into the Rolodex and find someone to crank out a song to fit the genre. In terms of trading on her sexuality, it seems that Tina, despite her age and decidedly stocky figure, would shoehorn herself into the most skimpy outfits to garner the most attention- all, again, in the interest of increasing her appeal to mass audiences. She would sing any song, wear any outfit or dance any dance that would be considered "marketable." And Buddah knows all of those efforts paid off handsomely in terms of commercial success- she hit the road and shimmied and shook her way around the world on marathon tours. But at the end of the day, one has to wonder who Tina Turner really was as a person beneath the teased wigs, pounds of pancake makeup and patent leather miniskirts. It is quite telling that, now that Tina has truly, truly retired from show business and all of the show business machinery, that she is finally revealing her true self through her current spiritually-related pursuits. If she insisted on doing spiritual music during the early 1980s, she would not have become the superstar that sold out football stadiums around Europe.

On the complete other end of the spectrum, Stevie is an artist who ascended to mainstream stardom despite her idiosyncracies. Nobody told Stevie what to sing (except for the Timespace songs). Nobody told her what to wear. Nobody told her how to incorporate verb tense and voice in her lyrics (we see what happened when Lindsey tried!). If Stevie received external help (e.g., Tom Petty, Dave Stewart, Michael Campbell), she was the one to ask for it. She decides when/where/how her albums are made and she determines her own setlists and album tracking. Unlike Tina, Stevie's music is a direct (but opaque) reflection of herself and corresponds to her own life experiences. Although Stevie has certainly enjoyed all the spoils that come with fame and stardom, and she clearly enjoys her wealth, she still does projects on her own terms, despite the commercial ramifications. At the height of her fame, she still took the time to work on "lesser" obscure projects to help out friends (e.g., Sandy Stewart, Walter Egan, Robbie Patton, etc.). She could have easily shifted stylistic direction to fit with the times, but she stuck with her guns and demonstrated that she could be "sexy" on her own terms without resorting to crass displays of overt sexuality, e.g., fishnet stockings, hooker heels, miniskirts, etc. Indeed, to this day, I think anybody would be hard pressed to find pictures of Stevie with her bare legs revealed above the ankles, let alone a bikini. In fact, one could argue that she is perhaps the most covered up "sex symbol" in history. She followed her own muse, the commercial gods be da**ed.

[michelej1]

despite her age and decidedly stocky figure,

You are too much.

I can easily find pictures of Stevie's leg above her ankle, but that reminds me of this tour. Sometimes in pictures, particularly in the opening night photos, it looks like Stevie is wearing stockings the way the light hits her tights. So, it gives the impression that she's showing her legs when she's not. It looks like skin in the picture, but it was really a black tight.

Michele

[bluefox4000]

I find the comparisons between Stevie and Tina Turner to be beyond absurd. The biggest and most obvious distinction: Stevie is an artist and Tina is a singer. Big difference. Of course Tina is an exceptionally gifted entertainer with a big, unique voice. And she has recorded some great songs (written/produced by some of the most successful writers/producers in the business). But Tina is a singer who entertains for the sake of entertainment, which is a means to her ultimate objective of making a lot of money. Her entire post-1980 career was managed accordingly. Tina was a chameleon who adapted herself in whatever means necessary to be commercially successful. If they needed a rock song, an R&B song or a torchy power ballad, all they had to do was reach into the Rolodex and find someone to crank out a song to fit the genre. In terms of trading on her sexuality, it seems that Tina, despite her age and decidedly stocky figure, would shoehorn herself into the most skimpy outfits to garner the most attention- all, again, in the interest of increasing her appeal to mass audiences. She would sing any song, wear any outfit or dance any dance that would be considered "marketable." And Buddah knows all of those efforts paid off handsomely in terms of commercial success- she hit the road and shimmied and shook her way around the world on marathon tours. But at the end of the day, one has to wonder who Tina Turner really was as a person beneath the teased wigs, pounds of pancake makeup and patent leather miniskirts. It is quite telling that, now that Tina has truly, truly retired from show business and all of the show business machinery, that she is finally revealing her true self through her current spiritually-related pursuits. If she insisted on doing spiritual music during the early 1980s, she would not have become the superstar that sold out football stadiums around Europe.

On the complete other end of the spectrum, Stevie is an artist who ascended to mainstream stardom despite her idiosyncracies. Nobody told Stevie what to sing (except for the Timespace songs). Nobody told her what to wear. Nobody told her how to incorporate verb tense and voice in her lyrics (we see what happened when Lindsey tried!). If Stevie received external help (e.g., Tom Petty, Dave Stewart, Michael Campbell), she was the one to ask for it. She decides when/where/how her albums are made and she determines her own setlists and album tracking. Unlike Tina, Stevie's music is a direct (but opaque) reflection of herself and corresponds to her own life experiences. Although Stevie has certainly enjoyed all the spoils that come with fame and stardom, and she clearly enjoys her wealth, she still does projects on her own terms, despite the commercial ramifications. At the height of her fame, she still took the time to work on "lesser" obscure projects to help out friends (e.g., Sandy Stewart, Walter Egan, Robbie Patton, etc.). She could have easily shifted stylistic direction to fit with the times, but she stuck with her guns and demonstrated that she could be "sexy" on her own terms without resorting to crass displays of overt sexuality, e.g., fishnet stockings, hooker heels, miniskirts, etc. Indeed, to this day, I think anybody would be hard pressed to find pictures of Stevie with her bare legs revealed above the ankles, let alone a bikini. In fact, one could argue that she is perhaps the most covered up "sex symbol" in history. She followed her own muse, the commercial gods be da**ed.

Your over the top devotion to stevie is quite scary.

Mick

[KarmaContestant]

I find the comparisons between Stevie and Tina Turner to be beyond absurd. The biggest and most obvious distinction: Stevie is an artist and Tina is a singer. Big difference. Of course Tina is an exceptionally gifted entertainer with a big, unique voice. And she has recorded some great songs (written/produced by some of the most successful writers/producers in the business). But Tina is a singer who entertains for the sake of entertainment, which is a means to her ultimate objective of making a lot of money. Her entire post-1980 career was managed accordingly. Tina was a chameleon who adapted herself in whatever means necessary to be commercially successful. If they needed a rock song, an R&B song or a torchy power ballad, all they had to do was reach into the Rolodex and find someone to crank out a song to fit the genre. In terms of trading on her sexuality, it seems that Tina, despite her age and decidedly stocky figure, would shoehorn herself into the most skimpy outfits to garner the most attention- all, again, in the interest of increasing her appeal to mass audiences. She would sing any song, wear any outfit or dance any dance that would be considered "marketable." And Buddah knows all of those efforts paid off handsomely in terms of commercial success- she hit the road and shimmied and shook her way around the world on marathon tours. But at the end of the day, one has to wonder who Tina Turner really was as a person beneath the teased wigs, pounds of pancake makeup and patent leather miniskirts. It is quite telling that, now that Tina has truly, truly retired from show business and all of the show business machinery, that she is finally revealing her true self through her current spiritually-related pursuits. If she insisted on doing spiritual music during the early 1980s, she would not have become the superstar that sold out football stadiums around Europe.

On the complete other end of the spectrum, Stevie is an artist who ascended to mainstream stardom despite her idiosyncracies. Nobody told Stevie what to sing (except for the Timespace songs). Nobody told her what to wear. Nobody told her how to incorporate verb tense and voice in her lyrics (we see what happened when Lindsey tried!). If Stevie received external help (e.g., Tom Petty, Dave Stewart, Michael Campbell), she was the one to ask for it. She decides when/where/how her albums are made and she determines her own setlists and album tracking. Unlike Tina, Stevie's music is a direct (but opaque) reflection of herself and corresponds to her own life experiences. Although Stevie has certainly enjoyed all the spoils that come with fame and stardom, and she clearly enjoys her wealth, she still does projects on her own terms, despite the commercial ramifications. At the height of her fame, she still took the time to work on "lesser" obscure projects to help out friends (e.g., Sandy Stewart, Walter Egan, Robbie Patton, etc.). She could have easily shifted stylistic direction to fit with the times, but she stuck with her guns and demonstrated that she could be "sexy" on her own terms without resorting to crass displays of overt sexuality, e.g., fishnet stockings, hooker heels, miniskirts, etc. Indeed, to this day, I think anybody would be hard pressed to find pictures of Stevie with her bare legs revealed above the ankles, let alone a bikini. In fact, one could argue that she is perhaps the most covered up "sex symbol" in history. She followed her own muse, the commercial gods be da**ed.

As people, I agree, they are quite different. Their careers are not all that different - it can all be summed up in three words - singers who tour. On tour, artistry is irrelevant - booking shows, showing up and performing, these are all that matter. I think that's all the comparisons are about. Two American artists, one with tremendous European success because she worked for it, and another with minimal European success because she's kind of flaky about showing up and being on time. Your post is all about persona, and not the work.

[bethelblues]

As people, I agree, they are quite different. Their careers are not all that different - it can all be summed up in three words - singers who tour. On tour, artistry is irrelevant - booking shows, showing up and performing, these are all that matter. I think that's all the comparisons are about. Two American artists, one with tremendous European success because she worked for it, and another with minimal European success because she's kind of flaky about showing up and being on time. Your post is all about persona, and not the work.

I tried to get at that in my earlier post, saying that Tina was never a songwriter and that definitely counts against her in some ways. I was trying to focus on career similarities, as I think they do exist, especially the move from rock to adult contemporary. But to say Tina's not an artist is a little extreme. That train of thought would also include other great vocalists like Whitney Houston, for instance. I tend to draw the distinction at songwriter rather than artist. One thing, it's amazing that Tina Turner's voice didn't really deteriorate over her 50 years in the public eye the same way many other singers' voices have. Rolling Stone Magazine called her the second greatest female voice in music history after Aretha Franklin--and that being said, Aretha was never someone who had a huge following and huge audiences. On the road one's artistry may be irrelevant...or perhaps to say it more appropriately, it shows in the package of the show. Tina, for instance, was involved in every aspect of her stage show, she picked the setlist, she picked the moves, she knew everything and more importantly she knew what she wanted...and that's been captured on documentaries and for the features on What's Love Got To Do With It with Angela Bassett. Also, she never had a "decidedly stocky figure" unless you count the last tour when she was 70 years old; Stevie's weight has fluctuated too, but that should be a mute point. There are songs in Tina Turner's catalogue that reveal who she was as a person, though she didn't write them, and she had the unique ability to interpret them and translate that in her live performances. That said, I do agree, Stevie is hands down the superior artist. And also, in an industry in which so many singers claim to be songwriters (Beyonce, being just one example, pays to have her name on every song even though she had no creative involvement and has been called out by her past producers), Stevie stands as one of the few superior and genuine singer-songwriters.

[Macfanforever]

Sorry this might not make since But. What I seen for years since I first turn on the radio which was probably before Stevie hit the airwaves with FM is the buying public is most young kids and teens which but records as I call them.I sound like Stevie on saying records.

The public and radio was always age discriminate artists since music started.I might be wrong but that what I see happening here with the older artists of any gender.

I would be pissed off too If my music does not get played or sell.
I will look on the bright side I will be happy if all my fans have a copy of my works.

Most of the record buying public is the younger age groups.Us fans of Stevie's that are older hang on to our favorite artists and support them as long as we can by buying their latest CD/DVD buying concert tix buying tees and other merch at the show.


If you look at it this way.Back when my parents were listening to Tony Bennett ,Frank Sinatra ,Dean Martin and big band music was playing allover the radio until the mid to late 1950's when rock and roll first hit the airwaves.


At that time the kids were enjoying rock tunes and their parents were getting annoyed because their favorite artists are fading away as years go by as everybodies getting older and time moves on with newer music genders come and go.

As we come up to today.Stevie's got 300.000 fans that got her CD.


I love Tina.She had a great comeback in the 1980's.

Cher had a similar comeback in the late 1990's.

Barbra Streisand popped out at times too.I love her voice .

[MikeInNV]

While we've established that Stevie herself isn't actually really disappointed with IYD's sales, it's clear in this thread that a lot of fans really are, and continue to be puzzled by it. I find that very interesting. Stevie's made a transition from pop megastar to cult singer-songwriter, and I think, because she pulls in a huge nostalgia-seeking audience as a live act, that's a fact that's not always easy to see. There's a huge discrepancy between the crowds she draws as a live act and the albums she sells, because those nostalgia-seeking audience members just aren't interested in new material from her. The fact is, she has a core fanbase that loves her work, but outside of that, her new material just isn't going to create all that much buzz no matter what. We can pick apart whatever flaws in her career we like, but essentially she isn't ever going to be able to get it "right" in terms of hitting a commercial sweet-spot. She just isn't an artist with a broad appeal anymore. I think that's just fine.

But doesn't this end up being true of every artist once they reach a certain age or a certain point in their career? I mean, is there anyone bigger than Paul McCartney or his former band? Not really. But how many people know he released an album last year? And how many people want to hear something from that album when they see him in concert? Most of the thousands of people at his shows want Hey Jude and Yesterday the same way people at Stevie shows want Landslide and Rhiannon.

[Jondalar]

Have Stevie's album covers ever been all that great, though? Trouble in Shangri-La and Crystal Visions are the only ones I can think of that I particularly like, and even they're kind of "eh". She just seems to settle on a cover that seems passably marketable, even though they never really match the album's contents very well.

While we've established that Stevie herself isn't actually really disappointed with IYD's sales, it's clear in this thread that a lot of fans really are, and continue to be puzzled by it. I find that very interesting. Stevie's made a transition from pop megastar to cult singer-songwriter, and I think, because she pulls in a huge nostalgia-seeking audience as a live act, that's a fact that's not always easy to see. There's a huge discrepancy between the crowds she draws as a live act and the albums she sells, because those nostalgia-seeking audience members just aren't interested in new material from her. The fact is, she has a core fanbase that loves her work, but outside of that, her new material just isn't going to create all that much buzz no matter what. We can pick apart whatever flaws in her career we like, but essentially she isn't ever going to be able to get it "right" in terms of hitting a commercial sweet-spot. She just isn't an artist with a broad appeal anymore. I think that's just fine.

We did not establish that Stevie really isn't disappointed with IYD's Sales. She was totally disappointed. She did more press than ever and it never sold.

[michelej1]

But doesn't this end up being true of every artist once they reach a certain age or a certain point in their career?

Yes, unless you've developed a reputation of not giving into those kind of casual fan expectations over the years. Like Springsteen. You may go in there wanting to hear Born in the USA but they know enough about him not to think it's a given.

Michele

[SaidSomething]

I know this leaned toward money, figures, numbers etc...

I think there is nothing wrong with making an excellent record, awesome new songs created in a totally different and unfamiliar way, great fun and excitement in the creation and the yearning to get the music to her fans....to everyone....critics, all of those critics giving her a gold star on her forehead...huge hooplah....then, blah. Did anyone hear it? I feel her pain. She is, in my opinion...telling it like it is for anyone in the business that is/was a class act...pours their everthing into something for everyone...videoes, movie, public appearances etc...I think she wants it to be heard.

And appreciated. By people like us.

She has been on a non stop tour since trouble in shangrila...actually, The Dance. Plus, making those albums....

I sing for the things money cant buy me....

I hope that when they listen they will love it too...
Stevie Nicks' own words.

Moms here...Have a Happy Mothers Day...Love You! XO

Jim

[SaidSomething]

not to mention, IYD is FAR from generic! it totally captures her unique mystique, while branching off into blue-sy numbers (You May Be the One) and torch songs (Italian Summer)

I play You May Be The One often...it grew on me more and more...even her title track I am into...her "cheer up charlie" song on the record. Its so different than her norm. I think of maybe 2 of her "regular norms" dont have as much depth as the rest of the album. IE Wild S and Annabel.

I love her own songs...the way she likes or invisions them.

I wonder if she ever read any of the bitch slaps from here...how would she feel? What would she say?

I used to dream that you were an angel....

Jim

[johnnystorms]

Your over the top devotion to stevie is quite scary.

Mick

well this is a FAN forum!

[SaidSomething]

She has helped me tremendously throughout her 40 plus year career. Her songs and her labors of love..have always kept me going. My fan devotion is as flaky as a guy that is the type that turns on one of her saddest songs to cry his heart out, as she must have cried before she wrote about the experience turned to song. Her individuality and her blatant sincerity is what i love and turn to her for. In her songs i find someone that has "been there and got through it" and i reminisce about well, i can get better too. I turn to her gritty rock and roll, often live performances, and listen to psyche myself up before I go in front of the camera. I relate to her loneliness, her yearnings for love, acceptance and devotion. I relate to her non stop quest for the need of mass adoration and mass outpouring of love from the world. I relate to...I can't stop...if i do...who will be there? Mom? Dad? My Kids? Grandchildren? I can relate to...i have worked really hard all my life...never stopping long enough to enjoy intense wealthiness in a state of royaltiness. Like a diva. I can relate to the quietness after the show is over...4am, awake...and nobody to call...or anyone that knows me, heart and soul. Where is Robin? Is she in heaven? Mom, Dad? I can relate to the difficulties of drug and alcohol dependence for remedies in life...and the life after, without the Whiskey, coke and pill Armor. I can relate to hopes, dreams and wishes for love...and to the broken heartedness of a love affair gone painfully tortuous. I am flaky that way. Some folks on here know me on a personal level...and we share the flaky thing...and in them i find a kindred spirit. I love other artists for similar reasons. God knows i know tragedy, elation, love and loneliness, lowliest, desperate mourning...to screaming heights of passion and all things great. Iggy Pops Lust For Life explains it. Sort of.

I never watched American Idol because, I cant take the poor souls that want so badly to sing...and they totally suck. I have been on auditions where i have seen this, in fear i wax like that...or auditioning after a guy that was so awesome...

Anyway, bored the other night i look to youtube to see people Katie Couric intetviewing Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin etc....so cool and unabashed....i found a new Stevie Vid of all her American Idol mentoring. I saw her mentoring the Hollie Cavanaugh...and her sharp words to make her see her potential. And Stevies tears as she listened to the little girl sing Jesus Take The Wheel, taking Stevies advise...and undoubtedly having it ring true.

She and i share scary flaky.

J

[Dex]

We did not establish that Stevie really isn't disappointed with IYD's Sales. She was totally disappointed. She did more press than ever and it never sold.

But it was clear from the quote, when looked at it in context, that she was accepting and making peace with the changing realities of the music business and of her career. The strong reactions on this thread, I think, have much more to do with fan disappointment over their favourite artist not getting the recognition they feel she deserves, and much less to do with Stevie's feelings herself.

But doesn't this end up being true of every artist once they reach a certain age or a certain point in their career? I mean, is there anyone bigger than Paul McCartney or his former band? Not really. But how many people know he released an album last year? And how many people want to hear something from that album when they see him in concert? Most of the thousands of people at his shows want Hey Jude and Yesterday the same way people at Stevie shows want Landslide and Rhiannon.

Sure! Maybe not every artist, but certainly many many many, absolutely. I don't think that really changes my point, though. I didn't mean any of what I said as a criticism to Stevie, if that's how you read it. Almost all my favourite artists are cult singer-songwriters, and most of my favourite albums have probably sold a lot fewer than 300 000.

[sparky]

I find the comparisons between Stevie and Tina Turner to be beyond absurd. The biggest and most obvious distinction: Stevie is an artist and Tina is a singer. Big difference. Of course Tina is an exceptionally gifted entertainer with a big, unique voice. And she has recorded some great songs (written/produced by some of the most successful writers/producers in the business). But Tina is a singer who entertains for the sake of entertainment, which is a means to her ultimate objective of making a lot of money. Her entire post-1980 career was managed accordingly. Tina was a chameleon who adapted herself in whatever means necessary to be commercially successful. If they needed a rock song, an R&B song or a torchy power ballad, all they had to do was reach into the Rolodex and find someone to crank out a song to fit the genre.

And this is different from Stevie post 1980 pulling her singles from writers like Tom Petty, Chas Sanford, Rick Knowles, Sandy Stewart, Prince, and John Shanks in exactly what way? She also pulled the hottest producers at their respective times, like Jimmy Iovine, Rupert Hine, Prince, John Shanks, and Glen Friggin Ballard (hack of all hacks and she got that record company inserted fool 15 years too late) to do what? Hmmm. IDK. Maybe to make money? To entertain? For a self professed mad writer and songwriter par excellence she sure pulled in as many hitmakers as she could muster/command/afford. Thank GOD she had the good sense in the 1980s and 90s to avoid Holly Knight, Diane Warren, and Kelly/Steinberg. Let us recall that These Dreams was written for Stevie by Bernie Taupin and Martin Page because it was known in town that she was looking for songs - and she rejected it! Then it became a number one hit for Heart.

In terms of trading on her sexuality, it seems that Tina, despite her age and decidedly stocky figure, would shoehorn herself into the most skimpy outfits to garner the most attention- all, again, in the interest of increasing her appeal to mass audiences.
She would sing any song, wear any outfit or dance any dance that would be considered "marketable."

HAHAHAHAHA. Let the record so indicate that our dear Stevie has been fat since since 1983. And she never got her figure back again. She reshot the entire Stand Back video because she thought she was too fat. Not only did she perform in the 70s in little more than a spaghetti strap nightgown/danskin and platform boots, but as late as the 1981 HBO special the backlight through the chiffon essentially rendered her nude. She got a boob job as soon as she could afford one - between the white album and Rumours, just to look sexier. Please. Stevie has ALWAYS traded on her sexuality and beauty. In spades. Remember this is the woman who swore she would never go onstage again after the HOB Street Angel shows because she could no longer bear people taking about how fat she was. If one wanted to, one could correlate her decreasing album sales to her weight gain. And boy did she try to hide it. With lighting, camera angles, rotoscoping, anamorphic lenses, close ups above the waist, distant shots below. You name it. To say she did not trade on her sex appeal, and do everything in her power to mask it when it was deteriorating, is preposterous.

And talk about shoehorning! Stevie has been wearing crippling corsets since the Tango tour, and often dons wigs and shoulder pads to enhance the illusion of having a real waist. If she could get away with anything more than what she does, she would.

And Buddah knows all of those efforts paid off handsomely in terms of commercial success- she hit the road and shimmied and shook her way around the world on marathon tours. But at the end of the day, one has to wonder who Tina Turner really was as a person beneath the teased wigs, pounds of pancake makeup and patent leather miniskirts.

Who knows? And more importantly Who Cares? Who is Stevie under the weave, the re-engineered platforms, the pounds of makeup, the extremely tasteful surgery, the corsets, the uniform, the layers and layers of finery jewelry and flash? A little old homebody who likes to stay home and knit and refers to her stage clothes as Stevie Drag among her pals.

It is quite telling that, now that Tina has truly, truly retired from show business and all of the show business machinery, that she is finally revealing her true self through her current spiritually-related pursuits. If she insisted on doing spiritual music during the early 1980s, she would not have become the superstar that sold out football stadiums around Europe.

So that is her true self? Not simply the person she evolved into wanting to be? Is Christine now her true self that she has a farm and dogs and cooks all the time? Was her entire show business career a phony act simply conjured up to make a fortune? Is Stevie now her true self that she has gotten sober, removed her breast implants, and only deigns to spin during Stand Back?

On the complete other end of the spectrum, Stevie is an artist who ascended to mainstream stardom despite her idiosyncracies. Nobody told Stevie what to sing (except for the Timespace songs).

Au contraire. Everyone told her she needed a rock song on Bella Donna. Thus SDMHA.
Did she really go to Sandy during WH on her own? Why get music from an outside writer when she had all those songs? Not her sole decision. Talk To Me? Her decision as a single? I think not. Unconditional Love shot as a video and a proposed single? HA!
Everyday anything but a tit for tat single in lieu of more producer money? Not for all the chiffon in the world. She has less control than anyone knows.

Nobody told her what to wear. Nobody told her how to incorporate verb tense and voice in her lyrics (we see what happened when Lindsey tried!). If Stevie received external help (e.g., Tom Petty, Dave Stewart, Michael Campbell), she was the one to ask for it. She decides when/where/how her albums are made and she determines her own setlists and album tracking.

Mostly agreed.

Unlike Tina, Stevie's music is a direct (but opaque) reflection of herself and corresponds to her own life experiences.

Penalty. Tina and her producers have in most cases immaculately chosen songs that work with what was and is the Tina image. More than I can say for many of the outside writer songs that Stevie and her camp have chosen. Cry Wolf anyone? Docklands?
Every Rose Has Its Thorn? Ooops. I mean Loves A Hard Game to Play.

Although Stevie has certainly enjoyed all the spoils that come with fame and stardom, and she clearly enjoys her wealth, she still does projects on her own terms, despite the commercial ramifications. At the height of her fame, she still took the time to work on lesser obscure projects to help out friends (e.g., Sandy Stewart, Walter Egan, Robbie Patton, etc.).

She was bored. She had friends. People asked her for favors when she was hot and she liked to sing. Let us note that she was so zonked on Klonopin from Tango to 1994 that she could barely dress herself, let alone do anything on her so called own terms. Or even rationally consider the commercial ramifications. Thom Panunzio as a producer? A Jesse Camp duet? A Robin Zander duet? Seriously?
This all makes her a superior artist than Tina Turner in some way? Dubious.

She could have easily shifted stylistic direction to fit with the times, but she stuck with her guns and demonstrated that she could be "sexy" on her own terms without resorting to crass displays of overt sexuality, e.g., fishnet stockings, hooker heels, miniskirts, etc.

This explains all of the following.....The huge hair in the RAL videos. The fishnet gloves. The fishnet stockings in the Mirage tour video...prominent when she spins at the end of SOTM and you can see her As*. The dangling boobs in the ICW video. The colored hair stripes. The merry widow corset in the Seven Wonders video with the pressed together and offered forth implant breasts. The sky high pre-post-current hooker platform boots in the Rumours/Tusk/WH till her feet gave out eras. The pouty CFM looks in ALL her photo shoots. The splayed out photoshopped waist pose on the piano on The Dance cover. The Crystal Visions Tusk outtake side boob pouty cover shot. The eerie prepubescent looking photoshop nightmare that was the IYD album cover......and the MINISKIRTS on the Tango tour.

I totally agree with you. :laugh:

Indeed, to this day, I think anybody would be hard pressed to find pictures of Stevie with her bare legs revealed above the ankles, let alone a bikini. In fact, one could argue that she is perhaps the most covered up "sex symbol" in history. She followed her own muse, the commercial gods be da**ed.

We got a lotta leg from our girl through the years. There is a TISL Stand Back leg kick shot floating around where she is hoisting her withered flank up and she reveals her friggin crotch. Covered by leggings and/or leotards and let us thank the wardrobe girl for THAT favor.

One can argue till the cows come home that Tina Turner had a sexual image that was more in your face than Stevie. It was, by most definitions. Tina had a better body. Period. And was more comfortable with her sexuality. But Stevie has worked her sex appeal and beauty every bit as hard. The entire way. God bless her for it. She is/was/remains a stunning woman. She knows it. She plays it. She wrings every drop she can from it. As she should. She is no dummy.

However, to denigrate Tina Turner for being more raw, more revealing, or somehow deem her trashy or less classy than Stevie for her personal style is reductive, dismissive, and maybe even (I cannot believe I am even saying this) a little sexist. If you got it, flaunt it. Both women have it, had it and did it. They both exploited their sex vibe and beauty, as anyone in show business does. They simply did it differently.

As far as claiming one or the other as a superior artist, I call apples and oranges. One cannot fairly compare the two. And frankly, if you sat the two of them down, they would likely congratulate each other for a job well done. I think both of them did the best they could to ride the waves of their images and career trajectories as far as they could and both succeeded fantastically. If anything, Tina had better management the entire way and worked her image to a much higher pinnacle than Stevie ever did.

If there is any one thing I think everyone on this forum can all agree on it is this - post RAL Stevie has had utterly terrible management. Unforgivably bad. The missed opportunities are legion and inexplicable. Her career has not been managed since then, it has been MISmanaged. She has landed in a great place now, but OMG what could have been. A book could be written about just that subject alone.

One can say Stevie is somehow culturally more important as a writer, but God love her, and I certainly do, she only wrote a few important songs. Landslide, Rhiannon, Dreams, GDW, Edge, and arguably Stand Back. She had 10 good years as writer. Great songs? Without a doubt. Historically great. Is she Dolly Parton? Willy Nelson? Rogers, Hart, Dylan, Mitchell, Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards? No f-ing way. Nothing to sneeze at. She has made her mark. But she is not the premier songwriter of the century, as much as I love her.

Better than Tina Turner? That is a matter of taste. I think they are both legends, trailblazers, and singularly great in their own ways.

[Dex]

Sparky, that was a great post. I do have to say that I think HejiraNYC's main point about some fundamental differences between Tina and Stevie was fair, though. The heart of Stevie's recording career, as I see it, has usually been that she's written songs, she loves them, and she wants to share them with people. As you point out, she has been very compromising as an artist in the name of commercial interest, especially at certain points in her career. But I think there is still a difference between her releases and the out-and-out constructed-by-committee releases of post-70s Tina. There's nothing superior about Stevie's career or output, but there is a difference there that should be recognized. Although saying they're completely incomparable, and especially saying that Tina isn't "an artist", are huge overstatements.

And I'd like to add Gypsy and Leather and Lace to your list of culturally important Stevie songs, please (and I'd argue against the inclusion of Stand Back). :) I actually think, though, that most of the great songwriters you mentioned don't really have a much bigger list of songs that made a big cultural impact, and a lot of them have released some serious clunkers along with their great stuff, much like Stevie.

[vivfox]

SaidSomething's post #132 and Sparky's post #134, I applaud the both of you for your well written, very enjoyed philosophies.

[vivfox]

I think HejiraNYC's main point


Ed could very well be my spokesman. I agree 99.5% with everything he says.

[Christopher]

Sparky, that was a great post. I do have to say that I think HejiraNYC's main point about some fundamental differences between Tina and Stevie was fair, though. The heart of Stevie's recording career, as I see it, has usually been that she's written songs, she loves them, and she wants to share them with people. As you point out, she has been very compromising as an artist in the name of commercial interest, especially at certain points in her career. But I think there is still a difference between her releases and the out-and-out constructed-by-committee releases of post-70s Tina. There's nothing superior about Stevie's career or output, but there is a difference there that should be recognized. Although saying they're completely incomparable, and especially saying that Tina isn't "an artist", are huge overstatements.

And I'd like to add Gypsy and Leather and Lace to your list of culturally important Stevie songs, please (and I'd argue against the inclusion of Stand Back). :) I actually think, though, that most of the great songwriters you mentioned don't really have a much bigger list of songs that made a big cultural impact, and a lot of them have released some serious clunkers along with their great stuff, much like Stevie.

I think "Sara" is equally stellar and important as well.

[peer_gynt10]

And talk about shoehorning! Stevie has been wearing crippling corsets since the Tango tour, and often dons wigs and shoulder pads to enhance the illusion of having a real waist. If she could get away with anything more than what she does, she would.


Just out of curiosity: When did Stevie wear a wig and are there any pictures? Thanks.

[The Catdancer]

Exactly. I was at that weird Marx-Nicks show. They had to shut down the upper ring of the arena and they curtained it. the show was seated, on loose chairs, because we never do that in AHOY, Rotterdam. It was a bit of a sad atmosphere, although she did some songs that came out great, HAEWAFY, Edge of 17, the whole show was lackluster. She almost fell from stage, I was in awe that I saw her live, but was very dissapointed too. She never totally won me back since then. In the Netherlands, in the public eye she indeed is still the beautiful girl from GYOW.
OK, and Dreams and a little bit from Sara.

It was a weird show, wasn't it?! I remember seeing all the folding chairs in the arena and thought that was totally stupid because people want to stand on them and they might hurt themselves. Later on I heard she wanted chairs in the arena so chairs we got. Plus the curtains on the upper ring, she probably never knew it wasn't sold out. It was a sad performance, the band and back up singers did all they could to save it. I wasn't disappointed, I was worried about her because clearly something was seriously wrong. Of course now we know she was spaced out on Klonopin, had no idea at the time.

I'm slowly moving away from her now. I don't care that she can't hit the high notes anymore, that's fine, but that's not a reason why she shouldn't get into the music anymore. If you watch the old footage she was all over the stage. I know she has bad eyesight and is almost 65 but even with her glasses she hardly moves. She was right when she said in a 2013 interview:"All I do is stand there, sing my songs and twirl every once in a while". It's like she's not into it anymore and the same goes for her solo performances. It's like something is holding her back.

[WildHearted]

It was a weird show, wasn't it?! I remember seeing all the folding chairs in the arena and thought that was totally stupid because people want to stand on them and they might hurt themselves. Later on I heard she wanted chairs in the arena so chairs we got. Plus the curtains on the upper ring, she probably never knew it wasn't sold out. It was a sad performance, the band and back up singers did all they could to save it. I wasn't disappointed, I was worried about her because clearly something was seriously wrong. Of course now we know she was spaced out on Klonopin, had no idea at the time.

I'm slowly moving away from her now. I don't care that she can't hit the high notes anymore, that's fine, but that's not a reason why she shouldn't get into the music anymore. If you watch the old footage she was all over the stage. I know she has bad eyesight and is almost 65 but even with her glasses she hardly moves. She was right when she said in a 2013 interview:"All I do is stand there, sing my songs and twirl every once in a while". It's like she's not into it anymore and the same goes for her solo performances. It's like something is holding her back.

I think she has back or hip problems (I can't remember which) that are the reason she doesn't run around the stage like she's 30.

[The Catdancer]

I think she has back or hip problems (I can't remember which) that are the reason she doesn't run around the stage like she's 30.

She doesn't have to run around onstage like she's 30, I know she's got hip problems but she could get into the music a little more like at her birthday party at The Wiltern or when she performed with the Sound City Players. She was having fun.

[AnthonyMI]

This explains all of the following.....The huge hair in the RAL videos. The fishnet gloves. The fishnet stockings in the Mirage tour video...prominent when she spins at the end of SOTM and you can see her As*. The dangling boobs in the ICW video. The colored hair stripes. The merry widow corset in the Seven Wonders video with the pressed together and offered forth implant breasts. The sky high pre-post-current hooker platform boots in the Rumours/Tusk/WH till her feet gave out eras. The pouty CFM looks in ALL her photo shoots. The splayed out photoshopped waist pose on the piano on The Dance cover. The Crystal Visions Tusk outtake side boob pouty cover shot. The eerie prepubescent looking photoshop nightmare that was the IYD album cover......and the MINISKIRTS on the Tango tour.



OMG! I just realized....after 15 years...I'm not gay at all! I love Stevie because she is a skankyho temptress and I have a subconscious desire to have my way with her! I don't want to BE Stevie Nicks, I want to marry her!!!! Thanks for finally helping me see that.
now can we talk more about Stevie's boobs please? :laugh:

[KarmaContestant]

Just out of curiosity: When did Stevie wear a wig and are there any pictures? Thanks.

Oh lawd! There are lots of them - like the cover of Timespace, for one.

[peer_gynt10]

Oh lawd! There are lots of them - like the cover of Timespace, for one.

I'm shivering... And not in a good way.

[sparky]

Sparky, that was a great post. .

Thanks.

But I think there is still a difference between her releases and the out-and-out constructed-by-committee releases of post-70s Tina. .

I have no idea how constructed by committee singles releases Stevie has had. But I do believe you underestimate the influence of label heads. I cannot imagine that every single release Stevie has ever released was not at least somewhat committee related. It is a record company. It is all done by committee.

And I'd like to add Gypsy and Leather and Lace to your list of culturally important Stevie songs, please (and I'd argue against the inclusion of Stand Back). :) I actually think, though, that most of the great songwriters you mentioned don't really have a much bigger list of songs that made a big cultural impact, and a lot of them have released some serious clunkers along with their great stuff, much like Stevie.

I cannot include those, actually. I think Gypsy is so inextricably related to Stevie that no one could ever record a decent cover. It is simply inseparable from her persona. Time may prove me wrong - I used to think that about GDW and the Chain also. And that has not been the case.

As far and L and L goes, I personally think it is a wretched song. I hate it. :laugh: So I cannot call it a chestnut or a standard. The stereotypical weak woman strong man stuff rubs me the wrong way. So much about it makes my skin crawl. That is all personal. Maybe it is much better than I think it was, but it simply induces my gag reflex. Which believe it or not, is still quite healthy. Considering my life, that is impressive. Believe me. Or perhaps unfortunate, depending on the night.

You may have a point with the numbers on those other writers. But some of them have had such a voluminous output (Dolly has over 3000 published songs) and others have much better consistency of quality, that I do not consider her in the same league. Dylan birthed a generation with his style. Joni never sold a lot of records, true, and never had a bunch of hits. But she even inspired Stevie. If one listens to the entire Mitchell catalogue, it is impossible to not be stunned. Take away the crazy tunings. Just listen to her Travelogue record, and those orchestral arrangements will take your breath away.
Stevie does not have the same depth to her catalogue, nor the skill to translate them to orchestral pieces. Landslide is cute with an orchestra. I have heard it live. The MSO concerts that Stevie did, quite miserably I might add, only drive this home. Maybe that was the problem of not hiring a decent arranger. But I doubt anything she has written has the oomph that Joni could crank out on Slouching Towards Bethlehem, Hejira, or even the later composition Sex Kills. Those recordings will blow your socks off.

I am not trying to slight Stevie. I adore her. For gods sake I have seen her going on 40 times live. I have met the woman numerous times. But I think I have a realistic notion of where she fits in the pantheon of 2oth century songwriters. I do not fault her what she is not, and I certainly love her dearly for what she is. I try to draw a line between the two.

[Dex]

Thanks.
I have no idea how constructed by committee singles releases Stevie has had. But I do believe you underestimate the influence of label heads. I cannot imagine that every single release Stevie has ever released was not at least somewhat committee related. It is a record company. It is all done by committee.

Maybe. But not to the extent that Tina's work has been. Stevie's albums always have some very not-commercial not-pop songs that a Tina album simply wouldn't. They aren't catchy and they don't follow the verse-chorus-verse song structure. Actually... Thinking on it that only applies to her first 3 or 4 solo albums, but I think it's noteworthy. Those songs are there because Stevie wrote them and she loves them and they resonate with a certain audience despite commercial expectations. She got the rambling hot mess that is No Questions Asked on an album called "Greatest Hits" after all. :laugh:



I cannot include those, actually. I think Gypsy is so inextricably related to Stevie that no one could ever record a decent cover. It is simply inseparable from her persona. Time may prove me wrong - I used to think that about GDW and the Chain also. And that has not been the case.

As far and L and L goes, I personally think it is a wretched song. I hate it. :laugh: So I cannot call it a chestnut or a standard. The stereotypical weak woman strong man stuff rubs me the wrong way. So much about it makes my skin crawl. That is all personal. Maybe it is much better than I think it was, but it simply induces my gag reflex. Which believe it or not, is still quite healthy. Considering my life, that is impressive. Believe me. Or perhaps unfortunate, depending on the night.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were getting at in your initial post. :) I'm no great fan of L & L either, (although I wouldn't call it wretched) but it is an important song in the popular consciousness. People sing it at weddings constantly, it gets loads of radio airplay in North America, etc. Tacky or no, it's up there.

You may have a point with the numbers on those other writers. But some of them have had such a voluminous output (Dolly has over 3000 published songs) and others have much better consistency of quality, that I do not consider her in the same league. Dylan birthed a generation with his style. Joni never sold a lot of records, true, and never had a bunch of hits. But she even inspired Stevie. If one listens to the entire Mitchell catalogue, it is impossible to not be stunned. Take away the crazy tunings. Just listen to her Travelogue record, and those orchestral arrangements will take your breath away.
Stevie does not have the same depth to her catalogue, nor the skill to translate them to orchestral pieces. Landslide is cute with an orchestra. I have heard it live. The MSO concerts that Stevie did, quite miserably I might add, only drive this home. Maybe that was the problem of not hiring a decent arranger. But I doubt anything she has written has the oomph that Joni could crank out on Slouching Towards Bethlehem, Hejira, or even the later composition Sex Kills. Those recordings will blow your socks off.

Joni Mitchell is fabulous, yes. I won't pretend that Stevie is on the same level as her in terms of sheer talent. I hope that Stevie doesn't imagine herself to be, either (although who knows, with her). But if you're talking about contributions to some abstract pop-rock songbook of the general consciousness, as I thought you were initially, I don't think she has contributed more than Stevie. Certainly in terms of a prestigious body of work, though, Stevie loses out majorly. Probably regarding Bob Dylan as well, though I'm not as familiar with his catalogue.

Dolly I'm genuinely not so sure about. She has so many published recordings, sure, but I don't think she's written even half of them. And there are only about 6 Dolly albums out of who-knows-how-many that I'd actually feel comfortable recommending to others. I've heard enough bad Dolly songs to last a lifetime. I put her on more-or-less the same level as Stevie. They're not serious songwriting geniuses. Both are very prolific writers that bang out songs almost daily and occasionally get it really, really right.


I know you're not slighting Stevie in the least. Far from it. I just think it's fair to categorize her differently from a straight-up pop star. She's certainly not some uncompromising artiste, but at heart she's a singer-songwriter even still, and I don't want that to go unsaid.

[michelej1]

There's a lot of amazing music being made out there today, you just have to look past the top 40 to find a lot of it. HAIM, Lissie, Fossil Collective, First Aid Kit, Mat Kearney, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, Imagine Dragons, Florence + the Machine, Kathleen Edwards, Lauren Aquilina, Phoenix are just a few examples. It's not like there wasn't crap music released back in the 1980s.

Here's a comment from Lissie about Stevie, when she's compared to Stevie.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/361443

Yet another tune that she loves is "Further Away," where her vocals are reminiscent to those of Stevie Nicks. "I find Stevie to be an amazing goddess," she said. "I wasn't influenced by her so much though. In my formative years I was inspired to learn guitar and write my own songs through Liz Phair, Sheryl Crow and Alanis Morissette."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/361443#ixzz2jjUL7OoL

[Jondalar]

Maybe. But not to the extent that Tina's work has been. Stevie's albums always have some very not-commercial not-pop songs that a Tina album simply wouldn't. They aren't catchy and they don't follow the verse-chorus-verse song structure. Actually... Thinking on it that only applies to her first 3 or 4 solo albums, but I think it's noteworthy. Those songs are there because Stevie wrote them and she loves them and they resonate with a certain audience despite commercial expectations. She got the rambling hot mess that is No Questions Asked on an album called "Greatest Hits" after all. :laugh:





Perhaps I misunderstood what you were getting at in your initial post. :) I'm no great fan of L & L either, (although I wouldn't call it wretched) but it is an important song in the popular consciousness. People sing it at weddings constantly, it gets loads of radio airplay in North America, etc. Tacky or no, it's up there.



Joni Mitchell is fabulous, yes. I won't pretend that Stevie is on the same level as her in terms of sheer talent. I hope that Stevie doesn't imagine herself to be, either (although who knows, with her). But if you're talking about contributions to some abstract pop-rock songbook of the general consciousness, as I thought you were initially, I don't think she has contributed more than Stevie. Certainly in terms of a prestigious body of work, though, Stevie loses out majorly. Probably regarding Bob Dylan as well, though I'm not as familiar with his catalogue.

Dolly I'm genuinely not so sure about. She has so many published recordings, sure, but I don't think she's written even half of them. And there are only about 6 Dolly albums out of who-knows-how-many that I'd actually feel comfortable recommending to others. I've heard enough bad Dolly songs to last a lifetime. I put her on more-or-less the same level as Stevie. They're not serious songwriting geniuses. Both are very prolific writers that bang out songs almost daily and occasionally get it really, really right.


I know you're not slighting Stevie in the least. Far from it. I just think it's fair to categorize her differently from a straight-up pop star. She's certainly not some uncompromising artiste, but at heart she's a singer-songwriter even still, and I don't want that to go unsaid.

Stevie is a culturally important rock star. She bridged the gap between female rock stars that were uncomfortable with their stardom - Joni, Carly, Carol, and those female rock stars that loved their stardom - Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi Lauper, Janet. She was strong but feminine.
However, unlike Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi and Janet ….She was icon that didn't do a lot of press until she turned 50. Unlike Carly, Joni and Carol, Stevie loved superstardom and embraced her persona.

The only person I think you can successfully compare Stevie to is Jim Morrison of the Doors. They both possessed that "IT" quality. He was the Lizard King. She is the Gypsy Queen. He wore his leather pants all the time and Stevie wears her get up and "boots all summer long." They were both mystics. Along with Jim Morrison, Stevie helped invent Mystic Rock and did it more successfully than him. They are like cult leaders and their music is all about charisma and belief.

[louielouie2000]

Stevie is a culturally important rock star. She bridged the gap between female rock stars that were uncomfortable with their stardom - Joni, Carly, Carol, and those female rock stars that loved their stardom - Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi Lauper, Janet. She was strong but feminine.
However, unlike Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi and Janet ….She was icon that didn't do a lot of press until she turned 50. Unlike Carly, Joni and Carol, Stevie loved superstardom and embraced her persona.

The only person I think you can successfully compare Stevie to is Jim Morrison of the Doors. They both possessed that "IT" quality. He was the Lizard King. She is the Gypsy Queen. He wore his leather pants all the time and Stevie wears her get up and "boots all summer long." They were both mystics. Along with Jim Morrison, Stevie helped invent Mystic Rock and did it more successfully than him. They are like cult leaders and their music is all about charisma and belief.

You've framed Stevie in a way I don't think I've ever seen anyone frame her. Very provocative... thanks for sharing your thoughts. :nod:

[teedeerocks]

Why is everybody jumping down her throat? She's just being honest. Sure, she could pretend that IYD was a huge smash (it did chart in the Top 10 after all). However, she's just being matter of fact about her own sales performance and used herself as an example of how the music business is in the toilet. She never compared herself with the hot young artists of today, who, by the way, are not selling nearly as much as they would have ten years ago. Yes, it is rather disappointing that a new album by an artist who has purportedly sold 140 million albums worldwide can barely sell a few copies of a new release. Facts are facts, and it would have been rather bizarre for her to pretend that IYD was a big hit when it wasn't.

Yes she is being honest about the record sales.But in just about every interview she stressed the fact that she is only doing this for herself,it was the best year of her life,she was so sad to see it end,blah,blah,blah.And not to mention she said "why else would I be doing this-I DON'T NEED THE MONEY".We all know how she changes her stories-that's not surprising.But after all those heartfelt statements she made about IYD,this is like a slap in the face to her fans.:eek:

[Dex]

Yes she is being honest about the record sales.But in just about every interview she stressed the fact that she is only doing this for herself,it was the best year of her life,she was so sad to see it end,blah,blah,blah.And not to mention she said "why else would I be doing this-I DON'T NEED THE MONEY".We all know how she changes her stories-that's not surprising.But after all those heartfelt statements she made about IYD,this is like a slap in the face to her fans.:eek:

This isn't Stevie lamenting the fact that she now can't afford to remodel her kitchen or buy new property in Soho. This is a woman who very worked hard for a year to make what she sees as a significant cultural contribution, and then seeing that a) not being as popular as she wishes it would be, and b) being disrespected by being taken without any financial compensation to the many people who worked on it. It's not really about her wanting money, it's about how irritating it is when you put a product out there, legally require people to pay for it, and then have them go "Well why should I? You enjoyed yourself! YOINK!" I've talked to independent artists who work on a much smaller scale who express similar irritation. And it doesn't make them money-grubbing capitalists.

She is accepting of the new realities of the music industry, but she should be allowed to say "Y'know, this kinda sucks compared to what I grew accustomed to in past decades" without anyone being offended. It's a very human response.

[teedeerocks]

I think she has back or hip problems (I can't remember which) that are the reason she doesn't run around the stage like she's 30.

I was going to mention this on an earlier thread.Has anyone noticed that in the new concert video footage she often times keeps her left arm across the small of her back in between songs-almost as if she's guarding it?I guess I took notice to it because,being a chronic back pain sufferer,I do the same thing.And those boots can't be helping either.

[vivfox]

I was going to mention this on an earlier thread.Has anyone noticed that in the new concert video footage she often times keeps her left arm across the small of her back in between songs-almost as if she's guarding it?I guess I took notice to it because,being a chronic back pain sufferer,I do the same thing.And those boots can't be helping either.


Nothing at all to due with back issues. That's where the knob to her ear monitor was located and she often fiddles with the thing throughout most of her shows.

[Jondalar]

You've framed Stevie in a way I don't think I've ever seen anyone frame her. Very provocative... thanks for sharing your thoughts. :nod:

Thank you :)

[Wynne]

Thank you kak125 for putting up the video where Stevie explains it much better than a written up review. To see someone talk and see their body language and see their humor and have no mis- quotes or anything taken out, puts a huge new perspective on the topic. If I had not seen that video I would have viewed her words a little harsh, now that I see the video, she was perfection and said nothing at all that could be judged.

[Macfanforever]

She could sell more CD's with the DVD release.I hope so.

[TribalTwinSC]

Why is everybody jumping down her throat? She's just being honest

I agree with HejiraNYC. I don't think she is saying she doesn't appreciate the 300,000 people who bought IYD. And I think it is very sad that probably that many or more downloaded it or songs from it free by stealing them on the internet. However, that being said, I do think that Stevie just needs to accept that her glory days are over. She is never going to be on regular rotation on MTV or VHI anymore. But we all remember when she was on every station, on every cover and on every channel. She is nearing her mid-sixties now. That does not mean that she does not have an audience. She has a sea of devoted fans (such as myself) who already own every album, CD, documentary and probably every photo she has ever had published. And we will continue to buy them as long as they are released. She needs not forget that there are those of us out there that would give limbs from our bodies just to meet her and spend countless hours listen to interviews and rare concert footage on YouTube. I know that sounded creepy but I just hope she keeps that in mind.

As far as the talk about her going into the vault, well, that is exactly what she is going to do in October. I have mixed feelings about this album just because the demos have such a special place in my heart and it will be hard for her to surpass the original versions; especially recording all the songs in only 3 weeks. Some of the vocals in the demos are so raw with emotion and so fragile. If she can fake the emtion she was feeling when she recorded the songs years ago then I guess she is an actress after all!

I can't give up the night
I'm in high tide
I'd like to sail the seas
I'd like to take you on a
Slow ride

[He's So Unusual]

Stevie is a culturally important rock star. She bridged the gap between female rock stars that were uncomfortable with their stardom - Joni, Carly, Carol, and those female rock stars that loved their stardom - Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi Lauper, Janet. She was strong but feminine.
However, unlike Madonna, Whitney, Cyndi and Janet ….She was icon that didn't do a lot of press until she turned 50. Unlike Carly, Joni and Carol, Stevie loved superstardom and embraced her persona.

The only person I think you can successfully compare Stevie to is Jim Morrison of the Doors. They both possessed that "IT" quality. He was the Lizard King. She is the Gypsy Queen. He wore his leather pants all the time and Stevie wears her get up and "boots all summer long." They were both mystics. Along with Jim Morrison, Stevie helped invent Mystic Rock and did it more successfully than him. They are like cult leaders and their music is all about charisma and belief.

I wouldn't call Madonna, Whitney Houston or Janet Jackson rock stars, they're pop stars, the latter two with an R&B edge. Joni Mitchell has always seen fame for the fickle and bullsh!t thing that it is. She has never been interested in column inches, she doesn't care about that side of things, she's in it for the art. Madonna marked the turning point when the music industry was dumbed down and singers had to rely on shock tactics and controversy to sell below average talent. Like Joni Mitchell said: Americans have decided to be stupid and shallow since 1980. Madonna is like Nero; she marks the turning point." Madonna opened the doors to many other singers with little talent, she was proof that anyone could become a star with the right producers and writers behind them.

When Madonna, Whitney and Janet were at their peak in the 1980s the music business was in a completely different place to where it was when Joni, Carly Simon and Carole King were at their peak in the 1970s. The music press was so much bigger, so much more widespread, music television was big news, etc. which meant singers could sell themselves in a way they couldn't before, they had a much bigger and easier platform to become famous and well-known. I wouldn't say that Stevie was the first female artist to really embrace her fame, Cher and Janis Joplin both embraced their stardom and personas in the 1960s and 1970s, same goes for Debbie Harry. Stevie did a fair amount of press while in her 30s and 40s in the 1980s and 1990s, I've seen stacks of stuff on YouTube and other sites. And no one invented "Mystic Rock" because it isn't really anything.

[chriskisn]

I do think that Stevie just needs to accept that her glory days are over.

I think Stevie needs to realise that if she keeps producing crap then her glory days are over. However, (and I've said it before and I'll say it again) if she take's a leaf out of Rod Stewart's book and reinvents herself and does an album of old blues classics for example (hell even with a nod to FM) then she might find that she opens up a whole new era for herself plus access to a whole new audience.

[Dex]

I think Stevie needs to realise that if she keeps producing crap then her glory days are over. However, (and I've said it before and I'll say it again) if she take's a leaf out of Rod Stewart's book and reinvents herself and does an album of old blues classics for example (hell even with a nod to FM) then she might find that she opens up a whole new era for herself plus access to a whole new audience.

I like you, Chris, but I think you might be certifiable.

[PenguinHead]

I like you, Chris, but I think you might be certifiable.

I will certify that statement.;)

Isn't this subject matter a little stale. Her comments are from her last album, which is apparently a very polarizing body of work -- you either absolutely love it or absolutely lothe it. At least it didn't dissuade her from recording another album - which be equally polarizing for different reasons (we are too familiar with the demos). Your going to love or hate it. Isn't that what art is all about? It makes an impact either way.

I've followed her since 1976, I will defer to accepting and finding joy in whatever Stevie does, especially in this latter period of her career; as someone once said, "She can sing the phone book "(and it will hold your interest).

[BlueLight]

I've followed her since 1976, I will defer to accepting and finding joy in whatever Stevie does, especially in this latter period of her career; as someone once said, "She can sing the phone book "(and it will hold your interest).

I would no doubt listen to her sing the phone book. But an album of covers - oy, let's hope they never happens! :sorry:

As to Stevie's purported dissatisfaction with her record sales, I've never understood her to be bitter or frustrated with IYD's sales. If you listen to her full comments, she makes clear that she was in fact very happy and pleased with her sales, given the current sad state of the record industry and how hard she worked to promote the album. I think she's realistic about the current environment, but understandably frustrated by piracy, declining sales, fragmentation, etc. Just my own take of her comments!

[PenguinHead]

I would no doubt listen to her sing the phone book. But an album of covers - oy, let's hope they never happens! :sorry:



I agree with you about that. I don' t think that will ever happen; thankfully she's too self-centered to go that far. But I do think she is great when doing some one-off choice covers, like Not Fade Away and At Last.

[BlueLight]

I agree with you about that. But I do think she is great with some on-off choice covers, like Not Fade Away.

Agreed. And I love her take on It's So Easy. But don't get me started on Like A Woman ("With her fog... her amphetamines... and her pills.")!!

[SpyNote]

Ultimately, I think it's the condition of her voice that's affecting sales. She no longer has the voice that most people fell in love with, so why would they want to hear anything new from a voice they don't even like. Be glad that she has her core fans, the some 300,000, who will always buy her new music.

[James89]

This is what irritates me:

1/ In Your Dreams sold more than 300,000 worldwide. It sold about 500,000 copies.

2/ The album has sold just over 200,000 copies in the US alone. That is GOOD.

3/ She said that that isn't good for an act like her but let's put it this way. There have been
loads of acts arguably bigger than Stevie Nicks solo who have had albums that haven't sold
anywhere near that amount. Rod Stewart for one who's 'Time' album sold about 130,000
in the US and Eric Clapton's 'Old Sock' which was probably around 150,000. These acts
though maybe not direct rivals to Stevie have had similar success and their albums didn't
perform as well.

4/ Stevie is constantly saying how much of a state the music business is, hinting about the
so called 'failure' of In Your Dreams. She needs to accept that it did fairly well and actually
very well for an artist of her age. GET OVER IT!!!

I know that the new album will be great and I will love it. I just hope Stevie doesn't trash In Your Dreams in interviews saying things like 'nobody knew I had a record out' and stuff like that. 24 Karat Gold will probably debut high and sell slightly less than In Your Dreams which will still be good. Keep positive Stevie and remember that you are still doing good. :nod:

[Dex]

People really need to read what she actually said and take that in by itself. The misleading thread title really seems to colour people's impressions of it.

She is simply acknowledging the state of the music industry and her place within it, because she was asked to comment. She's saying she doesn't sell records like she used to, and that records generally don't sell anywhere near what they did in the 70s and 80s. That's literally all she's saying. She gets it. She accepts it. People can stop telling her to do that now, please. She isn't on strike. She's releasing a new album, after all, not sulking at home and becoming a cat lady. How can people still be so indignant over this off-the-cuff remark from ages ago?

[BlueLight]

People really need to read what she actually said and take that in by itself. The misleading thread title really seems to colour people's impressions of it.

She is simply acknowledging the state of the music industry and her place within it, because she was asked to comment. She's saying she doesn't sell records like she used to, and that records generally don't sell anywhere near what they did in the 70s and 80s. That's literally all she's saying. She gets it. She accepts it. People can stop telling her to do that now, please. She isn't on strike. She's releasing a new album, after all, not sulking at home and becoming a cat lady. How can people still be so indignant over this off-the-cuff remark from ages ago?

THIS. We'll said!

[TrueFaith77]

I think this is her way of preparing her argument against a Fleetwood Mac album.

[PenguinHead]

Ultimately, I think it's the condition of her voice that's affecting sales. She no longer has the voice that most people fell in love with, so why would they want to hear anything new from a voice they don't even like.

Blaming it on her voice is an extremely myopic view; one not looking at the big picture. It has almost nothing to with her voice, and more about the changing dynamics and evolution of the entertainment industry.

Anyone who has had a long-standing career in music business (or show business in general) , experiences the ebbs and flows of their careers as they age; the demographics shift, fashions and styles fall in and out of favor. No performer can escape this. They can't always be expected to constantly maintain the highest heights of their career throughout their lives.

Stevie's career has spanned several generations. Her career has had its fair share of ebbs and flows. But she remains a cultural icon, getting more universal respect, appreciation and recognition now, than any time in her life. As an aging rock star, she's an inspiration. It's no big surprise that a 65 year old woman is not going to have the same exact voice she had when she was a 25 girl. But she's still rocks!

[SpyNote]

Blaming it on her voice is an extremely myopic view; one not looking at the big picture. It has almost nothing to with her voice, and more about the changing dynamics and evolution of the entertainment industry.

Anyone who has had a long-standing career in music business (or show business in general) , experiences the ebbs and flows of their careers as they age; the demographics shift, fashions and styles fall in and out of favor. No performer can escape this. They can't always be expected to constantly maintain the highest heights of their career throughout their lives.

Stevie's career has spanned several generations. Her career has had its fair share of ebbs and flows. But she remains a cultural icon, getting more universal respect, appreciation and recognition now, than any time in her life. As an aging rock star, she's an inspiration. It's no big surprise that a 65 year old woman is not going to have the same exact voice she had when she was a 25 girl. But she's still rocks!

Myopic? That's a little pedantic, unless you're an opthamologist. Just write what you mean.

OF COURSE her voice is a factor. Dismissing it is to harbor on delusions. The general public, who make up the majority of sales, not her core, haven't bought everything she's recorded because it doesn't appeal to them. Her voice is part of the reason. If you compare Bella Donna with In Your Dreams, you would think it's a different artist. I don't live in fantasyland.

[Jondalar]

Today a new single was released and her album isn't even charting on the iTunes rock chart, which is a bad sign. But no woman rocker, singer songwriter is doing well.

[KarmaContestant]

OF COURSE her voice is a factor. Dismissing it is to harbor on delusions. The general public, who make up the majority of sales, not her core, haven't bought everything she's recorded because it doesn't appeal to them. Her voice is part of the reason. If you compare Bella Donna with In Your Dreams, you would think it's a different artist. I don't live in fantasyland.

I'm mixed on this - I'd say it's 50% her voice. It's the voice that has kept her off of radio. But her voice is only "bad" to those who are unable to accept that people change as they age. There are lots of fans even here on The Ledge that discovered and love Stevie with her current voice. I would conclude that her voice prevents the promotion she deserves because of bias in the industry, but it certainly isn't a factor in recruiting new album-buying fans. New fans don't have that bias.

Ultimately, you can't buy what you don't know exists. There's no way for Stevie to sell records to new fans if they never have the opportunity to hear her music.

[James89]

Today a new single was released and her album isn't even charting on the iTunes rock chart, which is a bad sign. But no woman rocker, singer songwriter is doing well.

But the song reached #63 on the main iTunes Top 100 Songs chart which is really good. However, I also can't understand why the newly released single doesn't entice people to buy the album. Weird. :confused:

[tabruns]

I will certify that statement.;)

Isn't this subject matter a little stale. Her comments are from her last album, which is apparently a very polarizing body of work -- you either absolutely love it or absolutely lothe it. At least it didn't dissuade her from recording another album - which be equally polarizing for different reasons (we are too familiar with the demos). Your going to love or hate it. Isn't that what art is all about? It makes an impact either way.

I've followed her since 1976, I will defer to accepting and finding joy in whatever Stevie does, especially in this latter period of her career; as someone once said, "She can sing the phone book "(and it will hold your interest).

I don't think its true that people either loved or loathed IYD. I saw a LOT of love for it in the reviews and only one poor review. Polarizing generally means it divides people in half. The critical reaction to IYD was more 90% "it's great" and 10% "it sucks"....and FWIW the 10% were totally wrong.

[gldstwmn]

Today a new single was released and her album isn't even charting on the iTunes rock chart, which is a bad sign. But no woman rocker, singer songwriter is doing well.

Her album's not available yet.

[James89]

Her album's not available yet.

Yes, but you would've thought a new charting single would boost pre-orders which do appear on the iTunes charts. The album is however at #148 on the Amazon albums chart.

[Jondalar]

Yes, but you would've thought a new charting single would boost pre-orders which do appear on the iTunes charts. The album is however at #148 on the Amazon albums chart.

Stevie is not stupid. She does America idol scheduled.

[gypsyrock]

People really need to read what she actually said and take that in by itself. The misleading thread title really seems to colour people's impressions of it.

She is simply acknowledging the state of the music industry and her place within it, because she was asked to comment. She's saying she doesn't sell records like she used to, and that records generally don't sell anywhere near what they did in the 70s and 80s. That's literally all she's saying. She gets it. She accepts it. People can stop telling her to do that now, please. She isn't on strike. She's releasing a new album, after all, not sulking at home and becoming a cat lady. How can people still be so indignant over this off-the-cuff remark from ages ago?

Thank you for those wise words. I couldnt of said it any better. I watched that interview and she was just being honest when asked a question. When you type out her response its taken out of context.

[PenguinHead]

Myopic? That's a little pedantic, unless you're an opthamologist. Just write what you mean.


Hi SpyNote. I used the word myopic as a polite way to say narrow-minded. I'll overlook the condescension. I'm writing exactly what I mean. I shouldn't have to defend my reading vocabulary; I like using words that are nuanced and less worn. I just love words; they are an essential part of my profession.

My perspective is as valid as yours. I was just offering a counterpoint to your point. For me, pedantic means meticulous, precise and exact, so I take that as a compliment. Thanks! One more thing: there is a second 'l" in ophthalmologist. I make mistakes too. Let's be friends!

[StevieNicksfann]

Hi SpyNote. I used the word myopic as a polite way to say narrow-minded. I'll overlook the condescension. I'm writing exactly what I mean. I shouldn't have to defend my reading vocabulary; I like using words that are nuanced and less worn. I just love words; they are an essential part of my profession.

My perspective is as valid as yours. I was just offering a counterpoint to your point. For me, pedantic means meticulous, precise and exact, so I take that as a compliment. Thanks! One more thing: there is a second 'l" in ophthalmologist. I make mistakes too. Let's be friends!

I wish your words would rub off on me. I have a 15 page paper to write and can't seem to write anything beyond pedestrian. sorry off topic

[PenguinHead]

I wish your words would rub off on me. I have a 15 page paper to write and can't seem to write anything beyond pedestrian. sorry off topic

:laugh: What is the topic of your paper? Refer to a thesaurus to find words off the beaten path; words less used but with more specific meaning.

I read the New York Times and always scout out rare words and words I never knew existed -- each have a slight different,subtle shade of meaning of a more common word, much like colored sample paint swatches.

[Jondalar]

Why is Stevie trending at #6 on yahoo right now?

[PenguinHead]

Why is Stevie trending at #6 on yahoo right now?

This is amazing. It's possible this might elevate Stevie's status to a height she had when Bella Donna came out. It's like her entire solo career has come full circle.

[Jondalar]

When I started this thread I never knew it was going to be this big a deal.

[Macfanforever]

I think her new release will do good even its more geared for her fans then the general music lovers.

I know I probably mention this before.


IYD release was messed up because she was warn down and got sick from the Rod Stewart tour.

If she skipped the Rod Stewart outing .She would able to have a good kickoff to promote IYD.The bucks she would of lost if she did not tour with Rod would be made up from good sales from the album and the promo tour.

The delay of the DVD release did not help matters.

I think if she had a clean release of IYD. It would of sold more copies.I might be wrong but thats my guess.

Dont get me wrong .I'm not blaming him .I love Rod and his music and he is a great entertainer at his shows.

The timing was messed up.

[DauphineMarie]

I think her new release will do good even its more geared for her fans then the general music lovers.

I know I probably mention this before.


IYD release was messed up because she was warn down and got sick from the Rod Stewart tour.

If she skipped the Rod Stewart outing .She would able to have a good kickoff to promote IYD.The bucks she would of lost if she did not tour with Rod would be made up from good sales from the album and the promo tour.

The delay of the DVD release did not help matters.

I think if she had a clean release of IYD. It would of sold more copies.I might be wrong but thats my guess.

Dont get me wrong .I'm not blaming him .I love Rod and his music and he is a great entertainer at his shows.

The timing was messed up.

I probably think so too. All of her albums were released in some sort of organized fashion, but IYD seemed rushed and delayed at the same time. I really hope this doesn't happen with 24KG because she'll be touring by the time it's released, so if she's not around to promote, then I hope team Stevie has something up their sleeve. :(

[Macfanforever]

I probably think so too. All of her albums were released in some sort of organized fashion, but IYD seemed rushed and delayed at the same time. I really hope this doesn't happen with 24KG because she'll be touring by the time it's released, so if she's not around to promote, then I hope team Stevie has something up their sleeve. :(

It probably be OK with the FM tour since FM is related to Stevie.Rod and Stevie thing was not.



Personally I rather see her solo tour to promote this but since the upcoming FM tour is special with Chris there. I dont mind.

[DauphineMarie]

It probably be OK with the FM tour since FM is related to Stevie.Rod and Stevie thing was not.



Personally I rather see her solo tour to promote this but since the upcoming FM tour is special with Chris there. I dont mind.

I'm not even from America but I'm going to one of their last shows in December, and as long as Lady is involved in the setlist I'm fine. :)

[Macfanforever]

I'm not even from America but I'm going to one of their last shows in December, and as long as Lady is involved in the setlist I'm fine. :)

Yes.I will be surprised if any of 24K song make the FM setlist.We will see.

I hope she will mentions the new album on tour at the shows.

[StevieNicksfann]

:laugh: What is the topic of your paper? Refer to a thesaurus to find words off the beaten path; words less used but with more specific meaning.

I read the New York Times and always scout out rare words and words I never knew existed -- each have a slight different,subtle shade of meaning of a more common word, much like colored sample paint swatches.

It's a creative writing assignment on a story I made up that transpired before the events of Shakespeare's Hamlet. I'll try the thesaurus trick. Thank you!

[jcalzaretta]

I would love it if at 8 pm (Mac comes on at 8:20), Stevie comes out and plays Lady. A little opener. That is what she should do.

[Macfanforever]

I would love it if at 8 pm (Mac comes on at 8:20), Stevie comes out and plays Lady. A little opener. That is what she should do.

Yes .Maybe they should put starting time of 7:30 on the tix and come out around 7:50.
They could add a couple more tunes in the setlist and less worry about the 11PM curfew BS.