Lindsey's Arranging On Tango In Night

[Royfan]

Another musician's question - Lindsey is credited as arranger in TITN.

But he's not listed as playing any keyboards - so on EVERYWHERE for example..
I wonder if he came up with those parts, and sequencer parts - and then
Stevie played them?

I don't think those parts were transferred over from guitar.

Anyone have a theory if that song was all his arrangement? (other than
the main chords and melody obviously :-)

[WildHearted]

Christine would be the one playing keyboards.

Since Chris wrote it, I'm sure she came up with the keyboard part.

[HomerMcvie]

Arranging a song isn't playing the parts, it's deciding what goes where, for how long,the harmony parts, where and if there's a solo, etc. Glenn Frey does it for the Eagles, and if memory serves, they call him The Lone Arranger..

[aleuzzi]

The arrangements on TITN were dreamed up by Lindsey and Christine, for the most part, more Lindsey than Chris, but her output was pretty important,as it was on every project they worked on together. But Lindsey's thumbprint is especially noticeable on the production choices--the use of certain "contemporary" synthesizers, the alteration of the vocals, both his and Christine's throughout to make a more "poppy" sound. Listen to Christine's voice on Tango and compare it to her voice on Mask three years later, or her solo album two years before: different worlds!

Interesting note: when Dan Perfect was talking about working with Christine on In The Meantime, he praised Christine's voice. "There it was, that beautiful instrument...she sounded like she did on the White album or Rumours, without any speeding up or mucking about with the voice in the studio." It seemed as if he were alluding to some of the FM production choices regarding her voice.

[Royfan]

The arrangements on TITN were dreamed up by Lindsey and Christine, for the most part, more Lindsey than Chris, but her output was pretty important,as it was on every project they worked on together. But Lindsey's thumbprint is especially noticeable on the production choices--the use of certain "contemporary" synthesizers, the alteration of the vocals, both his and Christine's throughout to make a more "poppy" sound. Listen to Christine's voice on Tango and compare it to her voice on Mask three years later, or her solo album two years before: different worlds!

Interesting note: when Dan Perfect was talking about working with Christine on In The Meantime, he praised Christine's voice. "There it was, that beautiful instrument...she sounded like she did on the White album or Rumours, without any speeding up or mucking about with the voice in the studio." It seemed as if he were alluding to some of the FM production choices regarding her voice.

So specifically on "Everywhere" - any theory on the opening real fast sequenced synth bit? and the dramatic chords in the chorus?

In other words , what I'm asking is , is it possible that Lindsey arranged those on a keyboard, but then let Christine play it? Cause he's credited with
arranging , but not keyboards..

Anyway that particular song makes me curious -

[Bryan]

Well arranging,producing and everything else he did..one thing is for sure :he underused Stevie Nicks on TITN.

[redbird]

She was hardly there during the process though.

[Jondalar]

Well arranging,producing and everything else he did..one thing is for sure :he underused Stevie Nicks on TITN.

Whose fault is that? She wasn't there to be used.

[Ulpian]

So specifically on "Everywhere" - any theory on the opening real fast sequenced synth bit? and the dramatic chords in the chorus?

In other words , what I'm asking is , is it possible that Lindsey arranged those on a keyboard, but then let Christine play it? Cause he's credited with
arranging , but not keyboards..

Anyway that particular song makes me curious -

I don't think he ever 'let' Christine play keyboard parts! ;)

[Stormwind]

She was hardly there during the process though.

True. How can you use someone which was hardly present in studio ?

[David]

So specifically on "Everywhere" - any theory on the opening real fast sequenced synth bit? and the dramatic chords in the chorus?

In other words , what I'm asking is , is it possible that Lindsey arranged those on a keyboard, but then let Christine play it? Cause he's credited with
arranging , but not keyboards..You've probably answered your own question by calling that section sequenced—nobody "played" it because it was programmed. It's too fast for me to hear it precisely, but I think it's the first five tones of a major scale without the fourth (i.e., I-ii-iii-V), ascending and descending repeatedly and rapidly. It's arpeggiated, a roll, with major 6th and major 7th chords in the bass. (I had to re-create it manually in my Fleetwood cover band.)

It's emblematic of what we mean when we call Lindsey the "arranger" or "orchestrator." He provided a lot of that texture, color, and ambience in the Fleetwood Mac tracks by 1) playing an instrument, 2) collating partial bits of tape into wholes, like weaving a tapestry from different materials, and 3) toying with artificial and "found" effects to influence sonics, tempo, dynamics, and wave forms.

One thing he's been doing for many, many years is to use guitars to simulate keyboards. This confounds our senses (one hopes in a good way). We think we're hearing a keyboard somewhere in a track, but in fact it was generated by a plectrum-type instrument. Lindsey once told an interviewer that some of what you hear on Fleetwood Mac albums that sounds like a keyboard is really a guitar or mandolin or banjo that has been "treated" (like costuming your kid on Halloween).

[michelej1]

^Reminds me of Mick saying in 1990:

"Lindsey's work with Fleetwood Mac speaks for itself, but I have to say, being as intense as Lindsey is as a person, he sometimes got to be a little too much for me. And sometimes we had to beg Lindsey to do a solo. He'd go, 'No, I want it to sound like violins here.' Then he'd sit for hours, trying to get a violin sound out of his guitar."


Michele

[michelej1]

I think of Christine promoting Meantime. I am sure Lindsey's many 30% more room comments had not eluded her and that's why she said that she really hated guitar solos. I don't think that was true, because Dan had a lot of guitar in her album and it wasn't particularly good. I just think she was taking a jab at Lindsey because he had taken some at her. The thing is, Lindsey wasn't necessarily putting guitar solos in her songs. He was always doing something fiddly with them to be sure, but he used many different sound effects. Everywhere, Little Lies and Hold Me strongly exemplify this. He didn't just jump in and say, "I'm going to slap a guitar solo here." His input was varied and complex. Although, when he did put down a guitar solo, I don't think Christine minded. YMLF.

Michele

[Dragonfly]

The arrangements on TITN were stunning.

I've been re-listening to it quite a bit lately and I really think Lindsey did an amazing job on that album. Christine's songs were fantastic anyway but he had a job on his hands with Stevie hardly there and not really at her best - but he did a decent job with what he had I think.

Besides the Rumours songs, it's all TITN tracks you hear on UK radio or music TV (Big Love, Everywhere, Little Lies).

[Bryan]

True. How can you use someone which was hardly present in studio ?

The fact that she recorded her background vocals for all the tracks (doesn't take long) and he basically dumped them off the record, as well as choosing which of her songs were ''allowed'' on the record considering she had some pretty good ones lined up that she (and some fans I would imagine) would have preferred to go on there. In other words:he was being a spiteful bitch

[Bryan]

]she's in there at 2:30 somewhere and other spots

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zLtScNtDAqQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[michelej1]

According to Mick, they layered her vocals into the mix of the album after the fact. It's not like they had a bunch of her background vocals there that Lindsey chose not to use. They didn't have much and only got some after the rest of the recording was finished.

They'd worked on it a year and she'd only been in the studio for a couple of days. When she heard the album and didn't hear herself (the argument erupted over Christine's song, according to Mick) she was mad and so they put her in, to the extent that they could.

But the fact that they didn't go back and put in MORE background vocals to mix into finished recordings after the album was done, just to make up for the fact that she wasn't there when they were actually doing it in the first place, would not suggest spitefulness on Lindsey's part to me.

If she'd been there all along and they viciously cut her backgrond vocals out, it would be a different story.

As far as the song choices on the album, I don't think What Has Rock and Roll Ever Done for You, is better than When I See You Again, not unless you wanted a faster song on the album. I'm not into the drug rehabilitation songs, but from the band's perspective, I think they thought the songs captured real emotions, the real pain of "Sara Anderson" and, in using them, they might have thought they were recreating some of the magic of Rumours where the songs reflected real life events. I think they thought they might be more powerful than other songs, because of the facts behind them.

Michele

[Christopher]

As far as the song choices on the album, I don't think What Has Rock and Roll Ever Done for You, is better than When I See You Again, not unless you wanted a faster song on the album. I'm not into the drug rehabilitation songs, but from the band's perspective, I think they thought the songs captured real emotions, the real pain of "Sara Anderson" and, in using them, they might have thought they were recreating some of the magic of Rumours where the songs reflected real life events. I think they thought they might be more powerful than other songs, because of the facts behind them.
Michele

I suspect many fans feel, as I do, that Stevie would have been better represented on TITN with her compositions; "Juliet" & "Joan Of Arc", not "What Has Rock n' Roll Ever Done For You". :shrug:

[michelej1]

I suspect many fans feel, as I do, that Stevie would have been better represented on TITN with her compositions; "Juliet" & "Joan Of Arc", not "What Has Rock n' Roll Ever Done For You". :shrug:

And I thought of the latter because Mick had discussed discarding that and taking When I See You Again instead.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

I think of Christine promoting Meantime. I am sure Lindsey's many 30% more room comments had not eluded her and that's why she said that she really hated guitar solos. I don't think that was true, because Dan had a lot of guitar in her album and it wasn't particularly good. I just think she was taking a jab at Lindsey because he had taken some at her. The thing is, Lindsey wasn't necessarily putting guitar solos in her songs. He was always doing something fiddly with them to be sure, but he used many different sound effects. Everywhere, Little Lies and Hold Me strongly exemplify this. He didn't just jump in and say, "I'm going to slap a guitar solo here." His input was varied and complex. Although, when he did put down a guitar solo, I don't think Christine minded. YMLF.

Michele

In that interview she said she didn't like soloing for soloing's sake but she liked guitar parts. Most of Lindsey's guitar work, like Danny Kirwan's after Green left, is set pieces, actual pats that get slight variations in live performances. I don't think she was taking a jab at Lindsey at all. She was alluding to guitar-heavy rock (she even simulated a guitar wail with her voice to illustrate). That kind of rock is closer to Led Zeppelin which Bob Welch said she hated. Of all the Mac Guitarists, I think the one that comes closest to the kinds of solos she was alluding to was Bob Weston, who was prone to free form extrapolation in the live shows (both Welch and David Walker mention Weston's extensive soloing in their Q and As). In other interviews, Christine has said she loves the sound of a good guitar.

[aleuzzi]

You've probably answered your own question by calling that section sequenced—nobody "played" it because it was programmed. It's too fast for me to hear it precisely, but I think it's the first five tones of a major scale without the fourth (i.e., I-ii-iii-V), ascending and descending repeatedly and rapidly. It's arpeggiated, a roll, with major 6th and major 7th chords in the bass. (I had to re-create it manually in my Fleetwood cover band.)

It's emblematic of what we mean when we call Lindsey the "arranger" or "orchestrator." He provided a lot of that texture, color, and ambience in the Fleetwood Mac tracks by 1) playing an instrument, 2) collating partial bits of tape into wholes, like weaving a tapestry from different materials, and 3) toying with artificial and "found" effects to influence sonics, tempo, dynamics, and wave forms.

One thing he's been doing for many, many years is to use guitars to simulate keyboards. This confounds our senses (one hopes in a good way). We think we're hearing a keyboard somewhere in a track, but in fact it was generated by a plectrum-type instrument. Lindsey once told an interviewer that some of what you hear on Fleetwood Mac albums that sounds like a keyboard is really a guitar or mandolin or banjo that has been "treated" (like costuming your kid on Halloween).

And the real keyboard moment in Everywhere is at the end, when underneath the voices you can hear Christine playing the main melody of Rachmaninov's Rhapsody in a Theme from Paganini!

[PenguinHead]

I suspect many fans feel, as I do, that Stevie would have been better represented on TITN with her compositions; "Juliet" & "Joan Of Arc", not "What Has Rock n' Roll Ever Done For You". :shrug:

Had "Juliet" and "Joan of Arc" been on Tango In The Night, Stevie would have had a stronger presence on the album. "When I See You Again" is really poor attempt to generate the sentiment of Landslide, but the lyrics are sub-par. It should have been regulated to b-side status.

Although "Welcome to the Room Sara" generally evokes disdain by many people. I find it to be her most interesting and intriguing songs, as odd as it is.

[RockawayBlind]

The fact that she recorded her background vocals for all the tracks (doesn't take long) and he basically dumped them off the record, as well as choosing which of her songs were ''allowed'' on the record considering she had some pretty good ones lined up that she (and some fans I would imagine) would have preferred to go on there. In other words:he was being a spiteful bitch

This doesn't seem to be in line with the documented history of those sessions. Do you have a source for this statement?

According to what has been reported, Stevie was hardly present and when she complained she wasn't represented in the songs, the band layered some more harmonies to make her happy.

True, Lindsey was the architect of the Tango sound. The album doesn't get as much love as it deserves now because it sounds so dated but, the truth is, without Lindsey's genius, it would have likely been rather mediocre. It certainly would have lacked that "specialness" we would expect from FM. You can see what I mean buy listening to next studio album after that.

[Dragonfly]

This doesn't seem to be in line with the documented history of those sessions. Do you have a source for this statement?

According to what has been reported, Stevie was hardly present and when she complained she wasn't represented in the songs, the band layered some more harmonies to make her happy.

True, Lindsey was the architect of the Tango sound. The album doesn't get as much love as it deserves now because it sounds so dated but, the truth is, without Lindsey's genius, it would have likely been rather mediocre. It certainly would have lacked that "specialness" we would expect from FM. You can see what I mean buy listening to next studio album after that.

I agree with pretty much all of that:nod:

Stevie was there for 10 days or something and Lindsey was having to arrange, co-produce, play guitar, sing his own songs, do backing on others etc..

Lindsey has said a few times that none of them were in great shape because of 'addictions' - so given all of that, and the fact that it was recorded at his own house - I think he did a hell of a job. I actually don't think this album sounds quite as dated as people make out either, listening to 'Everywhere' yesterday it still has a timeless feel about it.

It knocks spots off Mirage and the albums that followed for me, although he was fortunate that Christine produced (imo) her best set of songs and of course Richard Dashut played a big part, but given the pressure Lindsey was under (which was proved when he jumped ship not long afterwards) I'm glad it sold as well as it did and helped them re-establish themselves as a popular, big selling band again.

[Bryan]

This doesn't seem to be in line with the documented history of those sessions. Do you have a source for this statement?

According to what has been reported, Stevie was hardly present and when she complained she wasn't represented in the songs, the band layered some more harmonies to make her happy.

True, Lindsey was the architect of the Tango sound. The album doesn't get as much love as it deserves now because it sounds so dated but, the truth is, without Lindsey's genius, it would have likely been rather mediocre. It certainly would have lacked that "specialness" we would expect from FM. You can see what I mean buy listening to next studio album after that.

Nope,I can't- as I actually prefer BTM to TITN ! haha

Anyway ,sorry I don't rely on Mick's book as the Fleetwood Mac gospel to pull quotes from. But that is what happened ,he had a chip on his shoulder with her the entire time ..right up to when he left the band. And he called the shots with those songs,he asked for Seven Wonders in particular out of the bunch of songs she brought to them instead of what she was offering/hoping to record for the album...so he got it,even used the first vocal she did there and then for the song. Not that she'd complain now,she loves TITN but it seems wasteful to not have used the b/g vocals she recorded and the songs she presented..especially seeing as her solo career was still in good shape at that point..it'd have made sense to include her equally.
And lest we forget she was on tour and doing promo when they were putting Tango together..it's not like they called and she said no i'm not doing it,she literally couldn't be there due to commitments.
Sorry I can't reference sources or quotes i'd have to dig deep but there are others who can back this up out there who know their stuff i'm sure.

[michelej1]

Anyway ,sorry I don't rely on Mick's book as the Fleetwood Mac gospel to pull quotes from .

I don't rely on Mick's book as gospel either. However, what Mick said is what Stevie herself has said about that Tango recording process and her inability to participate. She corroborated what Mick said. And her absence was not just due to Rock a Little touring, but to her drug problems.

She has spoken about this as recently as this year.

Yes, it's true Juliet, Joan of Arc and Special Kind of Love didn't get on the album, but no one has said it's because Lindsey rejected those songs.

Not that she'd complain now,she loves TITN

Not that she'd complain? In what universe? She complains non-stop. I don't think she particularly likes Tango, but it's not because Lindsey messed up her songs. Before she talked about her drug problems, in the nineties she used to say she wasn't around for Tango because they were jealous of her solo career and treated her badly when she was there. She never said he didn't use her best songs or did a hatchet job on vocals or anything.

"It was extremely difficult. I wasn't there alot because it was extremely difficult and also because I have this other career. They would like for me to be there just because they like having me there. They always have from the very beginning, just for vibe, I guess. I guess I'm just a vibey person and when I come in to the studio or when I come into the dressing room where we're rehearsing or something, its like, everyone knows that as silly as I am and as unserious as I seem to be alot of the time that I really am very serious and that I want it to be good and that when I walk into the room, that it's serious, and if you don't need me, then let me go."

I wasn't there for a lot of that, 'cause I was on the road. It was me that was causing all the friction, 'cause Lindsey was the head guy and I was making him erratic. When I was not there it was good. They all got along fine. But, you have to understand that I'm an old girlfriend of Lindsey's, so that kind of makes me a war monger in his eye. So, when I walked in it was like, "Thanks so much for stopping by. We heard you were busy with your solo tour. Thanks for bailing on us." That's the first thing I got. I didn't have time for that abuse. And I felt like, "If you don't get off my back, I'm gonna injure you badly." It got so bad that I said, "I'm gonna do a solo record," much to Mick and Lindsey's absolute horror. From that moment on, I got treated much worse. However, they couldn't be too awful to me, 'cause they knew that they couldn't go out on the road without me. So they had to keep a certain level of niceness. Otherwise they knew I'd walk. I mean, I had platinum records and sold-out tours. Why did I need to be treated like this? There was plenty of jealousy in the air, but I felt so beaten down that I wanted to run away and hide."

Michele

[michelej1]

...so he got it,even used the first vocal she did there and then for the song.

What are all these background vocals you think that Lindsey had from Stevie? He didn't. He may have had more backgrounds for Family Man, but that's about it.

As far as him using the first vocal for the song, what's wrong with that. How do you know the subsequent vocals she did for Seven Wonders were superior to the first vocal? Stevie herself said she couldn't do the vocal again as good as she did the very first time. So, why was it wrong for Lindsey to use that first vocal when Stevie agrees it was the best one?? She says that they "we" went with the first vocal.

Stevie said:

"Sandy Stewart, a very good friend of mine, came through Phoenix about, whenever it was, about a year ago, and spent two days. She played all her new demos for me. Amongst these songs was a song called "Seven Wonders." I instantly, the first time I heard it said to Sandy, 'are you gonna do this on your next album?' She said, 'when I wrote it I thought about you.' I said, 'what do you think about Fleetwood Mac?' She said as any wise songwriter would say, 'absolutely. Go ahead.' A couple months later, somebody said, 'you know that 'Seven Wonders' song, is it still available? And I said 'yeah, absolutely.'

So then the interviewer says that she used her own words for the song.
And Stevie answers:

Yeah, but the only reason for that was because we thought we had written down exactly as I sing them, the exact words to Seven Wonders. They cut the song without me there. Then I went in a couple nights later and sang it one time. Then I sang it three hundred more times but we went back to the original, very first vocal. I sang the words that I had written down and Sandy didn't unfortunately get me the real words before that. She knew about it so I sang those words. Then, I saw the real words and I tried to sing the real words, which are in fact very different. I couldn't do a vocal again like that very first time I walked up to the microphone and sang Seven Wonders.

[Bryan]

In this universe...she has said so.She loves TITN. ok sorry I can't trawl the net for endless quotes but it's true.

And I never said it was bad to use the first vocal,I just said it was used.It turned out great.

I'm not doing this net forum back & forth battle,it's soooo not my thing.

...And there are b/g vocals for a bunch of those songs,they weren't used,on the whole record she got the 'Tell Me liiiiesss' part (and the ''wearing out'' Am What I Am'' bit on Family Man that people swear is the Lindsey/speed oscillator thing)...that's it. Underused. That's all i'm saying.

[WildHearted]

So Stevie just sang what she THOUGHT were the lyrics to Seven Wonders for the initial takes takes, and then Sandy sent her the real lyrics and they were really different from what she had been singing... and they ended up going with the first take so that's why she has co-writing credit? Am I understanding that right?

[Johnny Stew]

I've always strongly believed that, if nothing else, a different sequencing would have helped balance Stevie's presence on the album. She has the second slot on the album, and then is basically MIA for the next 6 tracks. Moving both "Little Lies" and "Welcome To The Room, Sara" a little earlier in the running order helps a lot.

(ETA: I also have an issue with Christine disappearing for nine songs on 'Tusk.')

[KarmaContestant]

I've always strongly believed that, if nothing else, a different sequencing would have helped balance Stevie's presence on the album. She has the second slot on the album, and then is basically MIA for the next 6 tracks. Moving both "Little Lies" and "Welcome To The Room, Sara" a little earlier in the running order helps a lot.


Hmmm...yes and no. I mean, when you consider that it was sequenced with a two-sided record in mind, I'm not sure how you could move Little Lies any closer to the start of side A, *and* it fits perfectly as the first track of side B.

I suppose when you sequence the tracks in one long running order, it may seem that Little Lies should be closer to the front, but as the first track of side B it makes perfect sense (to me).

Unless you flip Tango In The Night and Little Lies, but then Lindsey would have had first tracks on both sides.

[moon]

So, correct me if I'm wrong:
As I remember from a Timeline (I don't remember the link), in 1986 Christine was the chosen for a work (for a movie??) and she contacted Mick, John and Lindsey. This team started with the Tango Sessions (not with that name), and then, Stevie put her part.
Lindsey took the arrangement part, making all the "hard work". Songs like Big Love and You & I (they're all I know) were recorded in 1986, but I can see that a song like Book of Miracles sounds like a Lindsey's or FM's song, not a song of Stevie. All the works of Chris have the Lindsey's vocals. The same for Lindsey, and the exception is Little Lies, with Stevie's voice. Lindsey used, I suppose, some "techniques" from his Go Insane work (the backing vocals, and the "female" voices), and we can listen that a part of Tango in the Night sounds like D.W Suite. And You & I (part II) was also sung by Chris...
The only doubt I have, is about Everywhere. Lindsey didn't appear on the video, and even when I know his voice is on the song, I don't know if he played the guitar.
We've seen some pics from the recordings, not a lot, but some interesting pics.
Regards and thanks!

[michelej1]

In this universe...she has said so.She loves TITN. ok sorry I can't trawl the net for endless quotes but it's true.


I didn't say in what universe did Stevie say she liked Tango. I said in what universe would she not complain about, in response to your statement that she would never complain. As for as her liking Tango, based on her interviews, she may like Christine's songs on it. That's about it. Even as recently as the SYW interviews she was saying that none of them were much a part of Tango. I'm not sure what she meant by that, since everyone except her was a part of the album, but that's what she said and I think she never embraced the album because she felt distanced from it.

...And there are b/g vocals for a bunch of those songs,they weren't used,on the whole record she got the 'Tell Me liiiiesss' part (and the ''wearing out'' Am What I Am'' bit on Family Man that people swear is the Lindsey/speed oscillator thing)...that's it.

The extended mixes of Family Man and Little Lies use Stevie prominently and they are able to do that by using the same background vocals over and over and making them prominent in the mix. And they did put her on Everywhere. If there are a mass of other background vocals laying around, then they sure haven't circulated among fans.

Michele

[michelej1]

So Stevie just sang what she THOUGHT were the lyrics to Seven Wonders for the initial takes takes, and then Sandy sent her the real lyrics and they were really different from what she had been singing... and they ended up going with the first take so that's why she has co-writing credit? Am I understanding that right?

I guess. Although, I think the lyrics might not be all that different from Sandy's. Maybe we fans had Sandy's original words for comparison at one point. I don't remember. Definitely, all the way down from Emmaline is Stevie's.

Stevie said FM told her that her "poetry" was already in the song and they weren't going to change that. So, the Seven Wonders lyrics turned out to be a happy accident.

Yeah, completely and in a very positive sense. I mean, there is something in that vocal that's real special. It's because I hadn't really thought about the song much so when I walked in and they had cut the track and I walked out there it was my first experience with singing Seven Wonders. So when you hear it, you know that was really the first time I heard it too.

Michele

[Neal]

I've always strongly believed that, if nothing else, a different sequencing would have helped balance Stevie's presence on the album. She has the second slot on the album, and then is basically MIA for the next 6 tracks. Moving both "Little Lies" and "Welcome To The Room, Sara" a little earlier in the running order helps a lot.


I've always felt the same way. I finally burned a CD recently of the Tango I'd have preferred, and while everyone has their preferences, I think it flows pretty well:

Books of Miracles
You & I Pt. I
Big Love
Everywhere
Seven Wonders
Tango In The Night
Mystified
Joan of Arc
Little Lies
Down Endless Street
Isn't It Midnight
Family Man
Welcome To The Room... Sara
Caroline
Ricky
When I See You Again
You & I Pt. II

[Matt Lucas]

Hello all---

I haven't listened to TANGO in a few months, but I recall listening to the whole record just after Christmas, and I was impressed by how good it still sounded. It needs a bit more low-end and would benefit greatly from remastering, but overall, it's a good record. I love the layered rhythm guitars and percussion, but I think Lindsey's choice of snare drum sounds was poor. He was following the late-'80s trend of a super-crisp, high-ended snare, and the result doesn't sound real. I don't really care for the treated vocals, either, but then, I've always disliked the way Lindsey uses so many effects on vocals. He clearly still has most of his vocal range and strength, so I don't understand why he continues to layer so many effects on his own lead vocals [songs like "Underground" and "When She Comes Down" come to mind]. But that's another issue...

Someone pointed out the fact that Lindsey often tries to make instruments such as his guitar sound like other instruments. I think the arpeggio at the beginning of "Everywhere," for instance, is a perfect example of this. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that part is played on guitar. I suspect that it was played at normal speed, then sped up and treated with effects to make it sound as it does on the official recording.

Lindsey wasn’t the first to do that sort of thing---The Beatles and Jimi Hendrix did it quite a bit---but it's certainly a big part of his approach to recording.

matt

[Matt Lucas]

Books of Miracles
You & I Pt. I
Joan of Arc
Down Endless Street
Ricky


Just curious, have these songs been released on CD or are they available officially as a download, etc.? I have the single that has "You and I Part 1" as the b-side, and I think I might have heard a couple of the others, but I'd like to own them.

I had never even heard of "Joan of Arc" so I looked it up on YouTube and listened to it. Is this the official version [a b-side, etc.], or a demo? If it's official, was it recorded for TANGO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaeSSbXSD8M

Regards,
matt

[UndoingTheLaces]

Just curious, have these songs been released on CD or are they available officially as a download, etc.? I have the single that has "You and I Part 1" as the b-side, and I think I might have heard a couple of the others, but I'd like to own them.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJpakl0Q1JVVGxESjlVag

You're welcome. :D

[UndoingTheLaces]

A few notes.

* Whomever did that video of Big Love adding Stevie's extra vocal, thank you. I love that!

* As much of a die hard Stevie fan as I am, I can't even imagine the her extra vocals from the 12" mix of Little Lies being mixed into the original song. Maybe she did them just for the remix because I they seem just too energetic for the mellow nature of the song. I think they work really well for Big Love but that really is Lindsey's song and if you had her vocals in there I'm sure it would seem to him like he'd painted a masterpiece and she came in at the last minute and spray painted on it.

* On Christine's comment about guitar solos I recall in an interview after Say You Will came out she commented that she didn't care for the guitar heavy sound and that it sounded more like a Buckingham Nicks album with Mick and John playing on it. What did she expect? She left the band. You can't just add another keyboardist to replace Christine McVie.

[KarmaContestant]

Just curious, have these songs been released on CD or are they available officially as a download, etc.? I have the single that has "You and I Part 1" as the b-side, and I think I might have heard a couple of the others, but I'd like to own them.

I had never even heard of "Joan of Arc" so I looked it up on YouTube and listened to it. Is this the official version [a b-side, etc.], or a demo? If it's official, was it recorded for TANGO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaeSSbXSD8M

Regards,
matt

None of these have been released on CD, much to the dismay of fans.

Joan of Arc was never released in any format, and the others are vinyl-only releases.

Even dumber is that there were CD singles released for Everywhere and Isn't It Midnight - and yet none of the Tango In The Night b-sides or 12" remixes were included here; instead, Rhiannon, Gypsy and Say You Love Me were used to fill the CDs (they also included When I See You Again and Mystified).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isn%27t_It_Midnight
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everywhere_(Fleetwood_Mac_song)

There are a couple different versions of Joan in circulation - one is a definite Tango cut and the other sounds like a Rock A Little leftover, though I am not sure if any of us know for certain?

Hopefully, a remastered and expanded Tango In The Night, when released ( :laugh: ), will include Ricky, You & I Pt. One, Down Endless Street and Book of Miracles. If we're *really* lucky, it will also include studio-quality cuts of Joan and Juliet (as well as other unknown demos from Christine and Lindsey).

None of these were even on The Chain box set, which I find peculiar.

[bombaysaffires]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildHearted
So Stevie just sang what she THOUGHT were the lyrics to Seven Wonders for the initial takes takes, and then Sandy sent her the real lyrics and they were really different from what she had been singing... and they ended up going with the first take so that's why she has co-writing credit? Am I understanding that right?

Yes. It's good to be Queen.

[Matt Lucas]

https://www.yousendit.com/download/UVJpakl0Q1JVVGxESjlVag

You're welcome. :D

Haha. Well, thanks then! I hadn’t heard those demos.

Are “Book of Miracles” and “Down Endless Street” from the sessions for TANGO or MIRAGE? The production for them sounds more like MIRAGE to me.

Umm…can I just say that I couldn’t be happier that ”What Has Rock and Roll” was NOT included on TANGO. I’m not sure even Lindsey could have saved that one.

I was listening to some of TANGO on the way home from work last night, and I forgot to mention earlier that I’ve always liked “When I See You Again.” It seems like a lot of people don’t care for it, but I think it’s a sweet little tune. Obviously, as someone pointed out, the song is sort of aiming for the same feel as “Landslide” but I think it’s different enough to stand on its own. And I love the way Lindsey sings the refrain at the end---it’s an interesting counterpoint to Stevie singing most of the song. Lindsey’s solo before the fade is fantastic, too. It’s so understated and fits the song so well. Let’s face it---the guy can sometimes be a little over the top in terms of his playing, but I often think it’s his simpler solos that are his best. [Songs like “You Make Loving Fun” and “Steal Your Heart Away” come to mind.] The guy can clearly shred when he wants to, but he has the talent and good taste to know that some songs call for something more subtle. That’s where Lindsey really stands out as a guitarist---he’s not always trying to show off and play a million notes a second like a lot of guitarists. I really dig that about him!

So Stevie just sang what she THOUGHT were the lyrics to Seven Wonders for the initial takes takes, and then Sandy sent her the real lyrics and they were really different from what she had been singing... and they ended up going with the first take so that's why she has co-writing credit? Am I understanding that right?

Wow, that’s an interesting story. On one hand, it sounds like Stevie basically wrote herself into the credits [and thus, the publishing profits?] on that one. But, on the other hand, the song clearly wouldn’t have been the same without Stevie’s input. I’ve never heard Sandy Stewart’s original. Has it been released? If so, is it similar, or is it as different as Stevie claims?

matt

[Neal]

Are “Book of Miracles” and “Down Endless Street” from the sessions for TANGO or MIRAGE? The production for them sounds more like MIRAGE to me.

TITN. "DES" was one of Lindsey's song's that would've made the solo album he so valiantly interrupted to once again save FM. "BoM" was the instrumental version of a demo that eventually became "Juliet" on Stevie's The Other Side of the Mirror.


Umm…can I just say that I couldn’t be happier that ”What Has Rock and Roll” was NOT included on TANGO. I’m not sure even Lindsey could have saved that one.

matt

Agreed 100%.

[Bryan]

A few notes.


* As much of a die hard Stevie fan as I am, I can't even imagine the her extra vocals from the 12" mix of Little Lies being mixed into the original song. Maybe she did them just for the remix because I they seem just too energetic for the mellow nature of the song.


Oh she did them for the song! You don't go in to do a vocal just for a remix.They were her dumped parts,they're sped up on the 12'' to keep up with that Remix but pre-wiping of vocal they were to go right through the end of Little Lies final chorus right up to the fade..perfectly in with the song and sounding like a BAND.
It's a shame for sure.

[UndoingTheLaces]

Oh she did them for the song! You don't go in to do a vocal just for a remix.They were her dumped parts,they're sped up on the 12'' to keep up with that Remix but pre-wiping of vocal they were to go right through the end of Little Lies final chorus right up to the fade..perfectly in with the song and sounding like a BAND.
It's a shame for sure.

I would love to hear that. I wish there was a bootleg of that floating around.

Sometimes people do vocals just for a remix. Cyndi Lauper had a song on her Twelve Deadly Sins CD called Come On Home and she went into the studio with Junior Vasquez to add additional vocals for the club mix. Of course her club mixes sometimes charted higher in dance charts than some of her singles, so that may be why the extra attention.

[Bryan]

I would love to hear that. I wish there was a bootleg of that floating around.

Sometimes people do vocals just for a remix. Cyndi Lauper had a song on her Twelve Deadly Sins CD called Come On Home and she went into the studio with Junior Vasquez to add additional vocals for the club mix. Of course her club mixes sometimes charted higher in dance charts than some of her singles, so that may be why the extra attention.

I remember that,she was all over doing remixes in the 90s and JV worked on tonnes of her stuff.Sly & Robbie too.I think JV did You Don't Know too,I loved that. But yeah she worked harder on the REmix than her own radio stuff ! Good work though,& on ''Hey Now'' single too.

[Fannymac]

Well arranging,producing and everything else he did..one thing is for sure :he underused Stevie Nicks on TITN.

She was hardly there during the process though.

Yes, he did......and that's not TOTALLY true. Yes, she was off touring for a good part of it, then at Betty Ford for a good part of it, but inbetween all of it, she did come in and record A TON of backing vocals for EVERY song. I've heard different stories, but what it boils down to is, SOMETHING Stevie did pissed Lindsey off, and he went back in and erased almost all of Stevie's backing vocals (He wanted to take her off "Little Lies" as well, but that was the one track where Christine said "No....it stays the way it is!"
Having a friend who worked at Warners at the time, plus having interned at Modern the year before, I was able to hear the original tracks.....they were GREAT! As good as TITN is, it could have been ~ no, it WAS!!! ~ SO much better!
Along with the continued denial about what happened in the Summer of '87, I think this is the biggest injustice LB has every pulled...on the band AND the fans!
(Yes, Mick, John and Chris should have stood up for Stevie more, but I think things were already on such unsteady ground, well, they just didn't want to shake things up any more!!!)

[michelej1]

[/B]

Yes, he did......and that's not TOTALLY true. Yes, she was off touring for a good part of it, then at Betty Ford for a good part of it, but inbetween all of it, she did come in and record A TON of backing vocals for EVERY song.

Yes, I know fans have made this claim for a long time. I just wish there was supporting evidence. I find it hard to believe that Stevie would have stayed quiet if this had happened, especially not once Lindsey left the band and everyone was so angry. Over the next 5 years, she spent a lot of time bashing Lindsey and then FM in the press (because she was mad about Silver Springs being withheld) and if her vocals had been taken off of the Tango album, I think she would have said so during that angry phase, not to mention that I think the song versions with her voice on them would have leaked out and would have been circulating over the years. Instead, what we have is two songs and no more.

The way Everywhere sounds, is in keeping with Mick's version of events, that Stevie wasn't there and they had to layer her voice in later. She's very prominent on Everywhere during the live performances, as if to make up for not having a strong presence on the album. Stevie said of TITN, "we made Tango In The Night, which none of us were very much a part of" and I think she didn't feel like a bit part of it because she didn't record many vocals. I know she did a lot of recording of her songs (like 7 Wonders) and she has talked about that, but not about recording discarded background vocals for Stevie and Lindsey songs.

I think Stevie would have let the world know if Lindsey had axed her on TITN, because of the open acrimony after he departed. The only thing she has ever said about her background vocals on that song is how she took her own vocals off of WISYA so that she could get Lindsey's voice alone there and make it like the two were singing together, because she didn't think he would have thought to do that himself on her song.

Michele

[Fannymac]

Yes, I know fans have made this claim for a long time. I just wish there was supporting evidence. I find it hard to believe that Stevie would have stayed quiet if this had happened, especially not once Lindsey left the band and everyone was so angry. Over the next 5 years, she spent a lot of time bashing Lindsey and then FM in the press (because she was mad about Silver Springs being withheld) and if her vocals had been taken off of the Tango album, I think she would have said so during that angry phase, not to mention that I think the song versions with her voice on them would have leaked out and would have been circulating over the years. Instead, what we have is two songs and no more.

The way Everywhere sounds, is in keeping with Mick's version of events, that Stevie wasn't there and they had to layer her voice in later. She's very prominent on Everywhere during the live performances, as if to make up for not having a strong presence on the album. Stevie said of TITN, "we made Tango In The Night, which none of us were very much a part of" and I think she didn't feel like a bit part of it because she didn't record many vocals. I know she did a lot of recording of her songs (like 7 Wonders) and she has talked about that, but not about recording discarded background vocals for Stevie and Lindsey songs.

I think Stevie would have let the world know if Lindsey had axed her on TITN, because of the open acrimony after he departed. The only thing she has ever said about her background vocals on that song is how she took her own vocals off of WISYA so that she could get Lindsey's voice alone there and make it like the two were singing together, because she didn't think he would have thought to do that himself on her song.

Michele

There have been a number of times Stevie has bit her tongue until it bled. For instance, when Mick's book came out and Lindsey was going on about the August incident, saying it never happened and Mick had just made that up to sell books, both Stevie AND Christine wanted to make a public statement saying that, yes, it DID happen! Mick, however, said no....they all knew what had happened, and that's all that mattered.

[HejiraNYC]

* As much of a die hard Stevie fan as I am, I can't even imagine the her extra vocals from the 12" mix of Little Lies being mixed into the original song. Maybe she did them just for the remix because I they seem just too energetic for the mellow nature of the song. I think they work really well for Big Love but that really is Lindsey's song and if you had her vocals in there I'm sure it would seem to him like he'd painted a masterpiece and she came in at the last minute and spray painted on it.



This. I don't buy for a second that Lindsey, as an act of retaliation, went about erasing Stevie's vocals from the final mixes of most of the TITN songs. Lindsey was clearly going for a very sterile, inorganic sound and Stevie's cracked out vamps were the antithesis of this. Indeed, Stevie was not around for much of the TITN recording process, and I suspect that Lindsey was actually kind of thankful for that- it's one less cook in the kitchen to battle with. As Stevie did for Behind the Mask, she probably came in and did most of her backing vocals in a single multi-day session at the very end.

[HejiraNYC]

I find it hard to believe that Stevie would have stayed quiet if this had happened, especially not once Lindsey left the band and everyone was so angry. Over the next 5 years, she spent a lot of time bashing Lindsey and then FM in the press (because she was mad about Silver Springs being withheld) and if her vocals had been taken off of the Tango album, I think she would have said so during that angry phase, not to mention that I think the song versions with her voice on them would have leaked out and would have been circulating over the years. Instead, what we have is two songs and no more.

I suspect that Stevie tends to vent about injustices after the fact only when she was prevented from doing something or when the project was a commercial disappointment. As such, yes, Stevie complained about not having SS for Timespace, which is consistent with all of her complaints about being a prolific songwriter and getting insufficient real estate for her songs on Fleetwood Mac albums. She will complain about bad experiences behind the scenes when the album is a big hit (like Rumours or TITN] but she will never criticize the music itself. But when an album is a flop (e.g., Street Angel or Say You Will), she will talk trash about the music. I mean, what does she have to gain by criticizing a really successful piece of work?

[michelej1]

I suspect that Stevie tends to vent about injustices after the fact only when she was prevented from doing something or when the project was a commercial disappointment. As such, yes, Stevie complained about not having SS for Timespace, which is consistent with all of her complaints about being a prolific songwriter and getting insufficient real estate for her songs on Fleetwood Mac albums. She will complain about bad experiences behind the scenes when the album is a big hit (like Rumours or TITN] but she will never criticize the music itself. But when an album is a flop (e.g., Street Angel or Say You Will), she will talk trash about the music. I mean, what does she have to gain by criticizing a really successful piece of work?

Well, she criticized Lindsey's songs on Tusk, but maybe you don't think that was a successful piece of work. Actually, while she's not going to criticize Christine's songs openly one way or another, no matter what, I think if she wasn't happy with her songs on Tango, she'd tell the world about it. She didn't like IDWTK being picked for Rumours and didn't mind saying so and if she thought that Lindsey only picked her worse songs for Tango she'd have said so and she would have mocked his own songs too. In fact, I'm not sure why she hasn't mocked Family Man, at the very least. She said how she was the one who made Lindsey do backgrounds on Mirage (for Christine's songs). She said she wasn't going to have no background singing on that album. I think she would have said something similar to lament the lack of background singing on Tango too, if she thought she had grounds.

Michele

[michelej1]

There have been a number of times Stevie has bit her tongue until it bled. For instance, when Mick's book came out and Lindsey was going on about the August incident, saying it never happened and Mick had just made that up to sell books, both Stevie AND Christine wanted to make a public statement saying that, yes, it DID happen! Mick, however, said no....they all knew what had happened, and that's all that mattered.

Well, since Stevie indicated that there were lies in Mick's book and commented that if she read it she'd have to go through with a big red pen pointing them out, I'd doubt she'd shy away from saying there was truth in there. She wouldn't even have to point out the Tango fight specifically as being true. She could have just said there were truthful parts in the book. She didn't.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

As Stevie did for Behind the Mask, she probably came in and did most of her backing vocals in a single multi-day session at the very end.

I remember Mick saying Stevie had been much more involved in the recording sessions for BTM than for the past couple Mac albums. I mean, I don't think she was there all the time (I suspect there were TOSOTM commitments), but didn't the band even go to Phoenix for part of the recording?

[MacShadowsBall]

I remember Mick saying Stevie had been much more involved in the recording sessions for BTM than for the past couple Mac albums. I mean, I don't think she was there all the time (I suspect there were TOSOTM commitments), but didn't the band even go to Phoenix for part of the recording?

I remember hearing/reading that too. I imagine with Lindsey gone, it was easier for her to be a part of the album making process. :cool:

[soul_drifter333]

And BTM sucked! So what's the point here?? :sorry:

I remember hearing/reading that too. I imagine with Lindsey gone, it was easier for her to be a part of the album making process. :cool:

[michelej1]

From an interview with Will Scheff in The Guardian, October 17. 2013

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/oct/17/will-sheff-okkervil-river-indie-music

'My idea of hell was being trapped inside Lindsey Buckingham's brain," Will Sheff says. "I think it would be like Event Horizon – you remember that movie from the 90s? That's probably what happens inside Lindsey Buckingham's brain on a minute-to-minute basis. He's a tortured guy."

We are in the bar of what styles itself "America's longest continuously operating luxury hotel", Sheff sipping a bright pink Campari and soda, late in the afternoon of a hot September day, and talking about one of his favourite groups. About how Christine McVie is his favourite member of Fleetwood Mac: "I don't have a Stevie Nicks in my life. I have many Christine McVies in my life. That's a straight man's evaluation of Fleetwood Mac." About his favourite album by them: "Tango in the Night – not as good as Rumours, but I like it the best. The glide on the synthesisers, the DX7 – it's the sound of my childhood."

[secondhandchain]

What are all these background vocals you think that Lindsey had from Stevie? He didn't. He may have had more backgrounds for Family Man, but that's about it.

As far as him using the first vocal for the song, what's wrong with that. How do you know the subsequent vocals she did for Seven Wonders were superior to the first vocal? Stevie herself said she couldn't do the vocal again as good as she did the very first time. So, why was it wrong for Lindsey to use that first vocal when Stevie agrees it was the best one?? She says that they "we" went with the first vocal.

Stevie said:



So then the interviewer says that she used her own words for the song.
And Stevie answers:

I hate Stevie's vocals on TITN. Her vocal on Seven wonders is awful. Over the top (from the drugs I think) and warbly. BTW I love her and think when The Dance came around she came back closer to how she used to be.

[BombaySapphire3]

I hate Stevie's vocals on TITN. Her vocal on Seven wonders is awful. Over the top (from the drugs I think) and warbly. BTW I love her and think when The Dance came around she came back closer to how she used to be.

I love her vocal on Seven Wonders for the very reason that you hate it.It was her final vocal performance of " the coke and brandy" years recorded on Halloween weekend just before she checked into rehab.As for her overall contributions to Tango however there is no excuse for someone of her caliber dropping the ball so badly.Save for Seven Wonders which she didn't write and her harmony on Little Lies ,Tango was a wash for her.

[seekerj]

Whose fault is that? She wasn't there to be used.

Then they should have extended the timeline of the process.

Everyone put up with waiting for Lindsey for four years to finally decide to participate with Fleetwood Mac (and decide to abandon that oh-so-important solo album). You never hear anything about that.

Ok, fine, everything is Stevie's fault. Everything. All problems were and are caused by her. Every misstep, every everything bad that ever happened since 1975. Everyone else is perfect. Especially Mr. Temperamental and Ms. Perfect-Saint-Who-Does-No-Wrong.

[seekerj]

Yes, I know fans have made this claim for a long time. I just wish there was supporting evidence. I find it hard to believe that Stevie would have stayed quiet if this had happened, especially not once Lindsey left the band and everyone was so angry. Over the next 5 years, she spent a lot of time bashing Lindsey and then FM in the press (because she was mad about Silver Springs being withheld) and if her vocals had been taken off of the Tango album, I think she would have said so during that angry phase, not to mention that I think the song versions with her voice on them would have leaked out and would have been circulating over the years. Instead, what we have is two songs and no more.

The way Everywhere sounds, is in keeping with Mick's version of events, that Stevie wasn't there and they had to layer her voice in later. She's very prominent on Everywhere during the live performances, as if to make up for not having a strong presence on the album. Stevie said of TITN, "we made Tango In The Night, which none of us were very much a part of" and I think she didn't feel like a bit part of it because she didn't record many vocals. I know she did a lot of recording of her songs (like 7 Wonders) and she has talked about that, but not about recording discarded background vocals for Stevie and Lindsey songs.

I think Stevie would have let the world know if Lindsey had axed her on TITN, because of the open acrimony after he departed. The only thing she has ever said about her background vocals on that song is how she took her own vocals off of WISYA so that she could get Lindsey's voice alone there and make it like the two were singing together, because she didn't think he would have thought to do that himself on her song.

Michele

There was that interview where Stevie was asked some question about Tango, I don't remember exactly what it was, but she responded sarcastically and said something like, "oh, you mean because Christine got four songs and I got two and Lindsey got seven??"... something like that. But I've never heard her complain about missing or removed background vocals.

[shackin'up]

I'm so fed up with these discussions. It's a band. If the cover says Fleetwood Mac, all members are responsable for what it is.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm so fed up with these discussions. It's a band. If the cover says Fleetwood Mac, all members are responsable for what it is.

But the sun rises out of Steve E's arse!

[chiliD]

I've always felt the same way. I finally burned a CD recently of the Tango I'd have preferred, and while everyone has their preferences, I think it flows pretty well:

Books of Miracles
You & I Pt. I
Big Love
Everywhere
Seven Wonders
Tango In The Night
Mystified
Joan of Arc
Little Lies
Down Endless Street
Isn't It Midnight
Family Man
Welcome To The Room... Sara
Caroline
Ricky
When I See You Again
You & I Pt. II

It's never been officially discussed, but I wonder if Lindsey was lobbying for TitN to be a double album, too. Although, I'm not a big fan of "Ricky"...I just don't hear how they could've made that song better...it's not very good as is. A shame that "Book Of Miracles" never got to "Juliet" phase. It's pretty good as an instrumental, but it is pretty repetetive without having vocals. "Down Endless Street" sounded the most finished of all the B-sides (except "You & I, Part 1", which I think was a late scratch out of the final track listing), but it still would've needed a lot of work to make it fit the album.


but I think Lindsey's choice of snare drum sounds was poor. He was following the late-'80s trend of a super-crisp, high-ended snare, and the result doesn't sound real. .


It probably wasn't. Considering his extensive use of a Fairlight on Go Insane he probably processed Mick's drums through a Fairlight to get some of those sounds.

Lindsey wasn’t the first to do that sort of thing---The Beatles and Jimi Hendrix did it quite a bit---but it's certainly a big part of his approach to recording.

And, they weren't the first either...you can go all the way back to the late '40s & the '50s to those Les Paul & Mary Ford records. Les INVENTED the whole multi-track process and there's a whole lot of examples where Lindsey obviously copied Les' recording & overdubbing techniques.

[The Nisse]

We've seen some pics from the recordings, not a lot, but some interesting pics.

Really, where? Could these be reposted?

[jbrownsjr]

Ms. Perfect-Saint-Who-Does-No-Wrong.

I agree with this!!!!;)

[iamnotafraid]

If the cover says Fleetwood Mac, all members are responsable for what it is.


I've been looking for someone to
blame for Time and Behind The Mask.

[shackin'up]

I've been looking for someone to
blame for Time and Behind The Mask.
All of them who made it.

[chiliD]

I've been looking for someone to
blame for Time and Behind The Mask.

Blame Peter Green for starting the revolving door of personnel changes in the band.

[jbrownsjr]

All of them who made it.

Lindsey guested on BTM. ;)

[Phil]

Just read through this entire thread for the first time and had a recollection that apparently "the band" (possibly just Lindsey, but who knows?) originally only wanted two Stevie tracks included on the TITN album, but that the record company intervened and insisted upon a third selection at the last minute. Is anyone able to substantiate this?

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey guested on BTM. ;)
And on "Time".

[jbrownsjr]

And on "Time".

Which tune is he on, "Time"?

[seanthompson]

Nothing Without You...you can really hear him at the end...would love for them to do a Rumours-era line up rendition of this!

[CADreaming]

I'm so fed up with these discussions. It's a band. If the cover says Fleetwood Mac, all members are responsable for what it is.

Exactly. Even if outside people who have nothing to do with any creative processes start whispering in band members ears and convincing them something else should be done that would help line their pocketbooks more. At the end of the day everyone signed off on a project or we wouldn't have it.

[MacShadowsBall]

Just read through this entire thread for the first time and had a recollection that apparently "the band" (possibly just Lindsey, but who knows?) originally only wanted two Stevie tracks included on the TITN album, but that the record company intervened and insisted upon a third selection at the last minute. Is anyone able to substantiate this?

I've heard this too from previous threads/discussions on the Ledge. I'm sure one of our Ledgie researchers can find some evidence. :cool:

[michelej1]

I've heard this too from previous threads/discussions on the Ledge. I'm sure one of our Ledgie researchers can find some evidence. :cool:

Everyone has looked before. There is no evidence of that, although we have discussed it many times over the years. The only thing that will come up is posts on this forum saying that. There's not going to be any newspaper interviews or articles that come up to that effect. It's been the subject of fan gossip for years, though.

Michele

[bobwelchera]

This is quite the intense thread...I read most of the first few pages, haha.

Now, I love Tango, no doubt. My only thing is that it's hard for me to discern where Christine's keyboard parts are in some songs. "Caroline" has that synth part in the chorus, but that's it? I don't really hear that much, if any, in "You and I, Part II." In "Big Love," it sounds like the synth bits are just altered vocal parts, with mayyybe a little keyboard. I don't believe there is a part in "Tango."

That being said, I really think "Joan of Arc" should have been included, maybe in "When I..."'s place - it's right in line with "Tango."

Also, I'm still trying to understand the dislike of "Welcome to the Room...Sara." I think that it's pretty great tune - it keeps you on your toes. Maybe that's it? It's not "super formulaic?"

[StevieNicksfann]

I love Welcome To The Room...Sara - both the released version and the demo as well