Lindsey is sooooo serious (SN q&a clip)

[elle]

some LB-related parts of the interview available here:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vvuu-BquV-A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

apparently nobody is ever nice (let alone adoring!) to poor Lindsey... and he never ever laughs or smiles anymore ;)

i also pasted the part about Christine leaving FM here - http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?p=1065064#post1065064

[Nico]

Lies, fairy tales, fallacies...Lindsey is serious, but he can be quite funny as well. I mean, look at the rapport he had with Brett on his past tours! And as far as no one adoring him, I'm done. I don't think I even need to acknowledge such ridiculousness.

[Lindsfan]

some LB-related parts of the interview available here:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vvuu-BquV-A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

apparently nobody is ever nice (let alone adoring!) to poor Lindsey... and he never ever laughs or smiles anymore ;)

i also pasted the part about Christine leaving FM here - http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?p=1065064#post1065064

Lindsey's not used to people being warm and loving to him?? Huh?? Sure he is. Maybe she should go to one of his incredible concerts :D She'd see otherwise. His family seems pretty warm and loving toward him too, as well as his bandmates, Neale, Brett and Wally. His nieces. The guy that interviewed him in NYC last year...all kinds of people!

She got him to smile? Wow :rolleyes: Good for her. So did I. And a lot of other people I saw got smiles out of him too...it wasn't difficult.

The interviewer doesn't think she's the un-forgiving type, yet she's still bothered by a perfectly reasonable comment Lindsey made over 10 years ago, while working on Say You Will?? Oookay.

And lastly, just let me say how lovely it is of her to keep bringing up that she thinks he wishes he was married to her and had a family with her. Classy. Because I'm sure his family loves hearing that. And can't you just see Lindsey looking at his kids and thinking, "gee they're great kids and all but nothing like the amazing kids I could have had with Stevie". :distress:

Someone is clearly delusional.

[Lindsfan]

Lies, fairy tales, fallacies...Lindsey is serious, but he can be quite funny as well. I mean, look at the rapport he had with Brett on his past tours! And as far as no one adoring him, I'm done. I don't think I even need to acknowledge such ridiculousness.

:thumbsup: :xoxo:

[Lindsfan]

Exhibit A.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4uQ5pujXy1k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Exhibit B.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tkj8Zcdf2HY?list=PL80C112C53A74369E&amp;hl=en_US" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Nico]

Thank you Lindsfan, luv. I am livid over this particular comment because everyone is always dragging LB through the mud. If it isn't one of his ex-girlfriends it's Ken Caillat or some other Joe. I really would like to say that a man can be serious and also have a fantastic sense of humor.

Maybe Linds just didn't have much to laugh about in the company of certain people. Maybe the tension was too thick. But, whatever, as shown above he can be funny and he IS laid-back with fans. And he's warm and sweet and generous as well. I have video and pics of my own to prove it!

And I know I can holler at many on here who can say the same.:nod:

[MikeInNV]

Sometimes I wish the Lindsey vs. Stevie thing didn't always feel like Romney vs. Obama. :D

She was relating a very positive experience they had in the studio. Now, did she do it with extra drama and through Stevie-colored glasses? Of course she did. But the take-away is that even though they've had many bad times in the studio, this was just the opposite. And I think it made them both happy to know that all these years later, they can still click when they work together.

As far as people not being loving to him, I'm pretty sure the context was in the studio, where people like FM (including Stevie), Ken Caillat, etc. haven't always had the patience to indulge him. I hardly think she was implying he had no fans or that his family didn't love him. :rolleyes:

[WildHearted]

Lindsey's not used to people being warm and loving to him?? Huh?? Sure he is. Maybe she should go to one of his incredible concerts :D She'd see otherwise. His family seems pretty warm and loving toward him too, as well as his bandmates, Neale, Brett and Wally. His nieces. The guy that interviewed him in NYC last year...all kinds of people!

She got him to smile? Wow :rolleyes: Good for her. So did I. And a lot of other people I saw got smiles out of him too...it wasn't difficult.

The interviewer doesn't think she's the un-forgiving type, yet she's still bothered by a perfectly reasonable comment Lindsey made over 10 years ago, while working on Say You Will?? Oookay.

And lastly, just let me say how lovely it is of her to keep bringing up that she thinks he wishes he was married to her and had a family with her. Classy. Because I'm sure his family loves hearing that. And can't you just see Lindsey looking at his kids and thinking, "gee they're great kids and all but nothing like the amazing kids I could have had with Stevie". :distress:

Someone is clearly delusional.

I thought that Stevie meant that he wasn't used to that kind of an attitude regarding her. Like, when they record for Fleetwood Mac, it's always tense and stuff so he's not used to be going into a situation with Stevie where recording is such a fun process and everyone is so nice to him.

But regarding the Bob Dylan debacle - it seems petty to keep bringing it up since it seems like such a random insignificant little thing... but sometimes it's the little stuff that hurts your feelings and that you remember. It must have really bothered her, although as an outsider watching it's clear Lindsey was trying to be careful about how he approached it.

Honestly, I do agree about the family comments - it shows a bit of disrespect for his marriage/children and it's the kind of thing that would probably best be kept between the two of them. That said, i t had to have come from somewhere - I doubt she just made that stuff up and decided to start talking about it in interviews. But it still seems kind of private.

[WeepingWall]

Wow, what an incredibly annoying interview! She seems like she is living in a make-believe tabloid-ready world. I love Stevie, but some of the stuff she is saying is just so crazy. It is really obnoxious.

[Lindsfan]

Sometimes I wish the Lindsey vs. Stevie thing didn't always feel like Romney vs. Obama. :D

She was relating a very positive experience they had in the studio. Now, did she do it with extra drama and through Stevie-colored glasses? Of course she did. But the take-away is that even though they've had many bad times in the studio, this was just the opposite. And I think it made them both happy to know that all these years later, they can still click when they work together.

As far as people not being loving to him, I'm pretty sure the context was in the studio, where people like FM (including Stevie), Ken Caillat, etc. haven't always had the patience to indulge him. I hardly think she was implying he had no fans or that his family didn't love him. :rolleyes:

I thought that Stevie meant that he wasn't used to that kind of an attitude regarding her. Like, when they record for Fleetwood Mac, it's always tense and stuff so he's not used to be going into a situation with Stevie where recording is such a fun process and everyone is so nice to him. But regarding the Bob Dylan debacle - it seems petty to keep bringing it up since it seems like such a random insignificant little thing... but sometimes it's the little stuff that hurts your feelings and that you remember. It must have really bothered her, although as an outsider watching it's clear Lindsey was trying to be careful about how he approached it.

Honestly, I do agree about the family comments - it shows a bit of disrespect for his marriage/children and it's the kind of thing that would probably best be kept between the two of them. That said, i t had to have come from somewhere - I doubt she just made that stuff up and decided to start talking about it in interviews. But it still seems kind of private.

The Romney/Obama comment was pretty funny :lol:

I'll concede that to you guys. Maybe that's what she meant, but not everyone appreciates her Stevie colored glasses and it would be refreshing if she could have said it without all the drama. It gets old to many of his fans reading and hearing these kinds of little jabs at him. Usually about things that happened a looooong time ago. When she adds her Stevie flare to what was supposed to be a complimantery remark, it just perpetuates the image that Lindsey is nothing but a dark and un-happy person, which simply isn't true. Why does she want to do that?

Which leads to "...it had to come from somewhere?" Maybe her own mind :shrug:

[CADreaming]

Hysterical!!! I thought she was gonna rip her fingers off one by one she was so fidgety talking about him! You would think she would be better at this by now. LOL.

[WeepingWall]

Honestly, I do agree about the family comments - it shows a bit of disrespect for his marriage/children and it's the kind of thing that would probably best be kept between the two of them. That said, i t had to have come from somewhere - I doubt she just made that stuff up and decided to start talking about it in interviews. But it still seems kind of private.

If she wants to talk about that subject, she can talk about her own emotions. But she wants to come off as strong, and not the desperate old single lady still in love with her old boyfriend who has since gotten married, had kids, and is always talking about how happy he is.

[CADreaming]

If she wants to talk about that subject, she can talk about her own emotions. But she wants to come off as strong, and not the desperate old single lady still in love with her old boyfriend who has since gotten married, had kids, and is always talking about how happy he is.

Well, she's pretty confident talking about how he feels...

I remember an interview not long ago and the reporter brought it up to Lindsey - Stevie's comments about them marrying and living in SF and having children - he just said, "oh, that's a nice thought"... lol...

[Lindsfan]

If she wants to talk about that subject, she can talk about her own emotions. But she wants to come off as strong, and not the desperate old single lady still in love with her old boyfriend who has since gotten married, had kids, and is always talking about how happy he is.


WeepingWall FTW! :nod:

Well, she's pretty confident talking about how he feels...

Indeed. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[shackin'up]

I love that interviewclip. She's witty and loose. Very much in shape too. And still someone who had Fame as a goal. And there, for me, is the major differente with her ex. Who had Fame as a goal too, but right after gaining it, he went for pure artistic values. They have à Very different view at the World.

[CADreaming]

Lies, fairy tales, fallacies...Lindsey is serious, but he can be quite funny as well. I mean, look at the rapport he had with Brett on his past tours! And as far as no one adoring him, I'm done. I don't think I even need to acknowledge such ridiculousness.

& by the way - have missed you Nico!!!

[Dragonfly]

I thought the interviewer was as much to blame as Stevie, he seemed to be feeding her the lines by being very negative about Lindsey.

The audience were annoying too (apologies if anyone from here attended!) they seemed to be laughing along with her when she was putting him down:shrug:


Lindsey seems far happier and relaxed these days than he ever has anyways.

[michelej1]

The audience were annoying too (apologies if anyone from here attended!) they seemed to be laughing along with her when she was putting him down:shrug:


Yes, that's true. She was getting laughs, so that encouraged her to go along in that vein. Dee was correct in saying the Bob Dylan line had punch to it when DR came out and so that's probably why she repeats it.

Lindsey does the same thing when he gets a laugh. He repeats the comment, but they aren't comments containing zingers about her.

Michele

[Nico]

& by the way - have missed you Nico!!!

Awww...:xoxo: Thank you! I missed all you guys too. I always do appreciate the drama that ensues with these two, though. It's never boring and always kind of endearing, despite how each one of us reacts. I definitely think Stevie was meaning to be more affectionate towards Lindsey, but sometimes I just can't quite get the Stevie-speak.

[Lindsfan]

Awww...:xoxo: Thank you! I missed all you guys too. I always do appreciate the drama that ensues with these two, though. It's never boring and always kind of endearing, despite how each one of us reacts. I definitely think Stevie was meaning to be more affectionate towards Lindsey, but sometimes I just can't quite get the Stevie-speak.

I don't. I think she swithches back and forth every couple years between adoring him and hating him...and always as publicly as possible. I just suffered through the whole hour long video and she bashes him beginning to end.

She said at least she didn't HATE Dave (as opposed to Lindsey)
She said she didn't want to tell Lindsey what he was doing was stupid.
She said Dave (as opposed to Lindsey) understands women because he has two daughters (same thing she said ABOUT Lindsey just a few years ago).
She said she told Lindsey he could add a few chords here and there but nothing else! :shocked: Are you kidding me?! Let's take Lindsey's parts out of Gold Dust Woman, Gypsy, Dreams, Landslide, etc. No riffs. No counter-melodies. No harmonies that he comes up with. Um, he's done more with her songs than add a few chords :rolleyes:

[CADreaming]

Yes, that's true. She was getting laughs, so that encouraged her to go along in that vein. Dee was correct in saying the Bob Dylan line had punch to it when DR came out and so that's probably why she repeats it.

Lindsey does the same thing when he gets a laugh. He repeats the comment, but they aren't comments containing zingers about her.

Michele

Speaking of the Bob Dylan thing (again! :rolleyes: ) ... did you catch her Michele in this interview when they were discussing this and she must have been quoting a new song? "I think that, you know on 'It's alright ma, I'm only dying' that you should like say, 'It's alright Ma - you're only dying.'"

This reminds me of the song I thought I heard before Lindsey's show in Atlanta...:shrug:

[elle]

Speaking of the Bob Dylan thing (again! :rolleyes: ) ... did you catch her Michele in this interview when they were discussing this and she must have been quoting a new song? "I think that, you know on 'It's alright ma, I'm only dying' that you should like say, 'It's alright Ma - you're only dying.'"

This reminds me of the song I thought I heard before Lindsey's show in Atlanta...:shrug:

it's not a bob dylan song? ;)

[michelej1]

Which leads to "...it had to come from somewhere?" Maybe her own mind :shrug:

I like this comment. I don't mean I apply it to whether or not Lindsey thinks or has said that they would have gone back to Northern California, had kids and continued to have a successful BN career, but I would use it as a, may I, "rule of thumb" for stories we hear in general.

Unless you are King Solomon, the split-the-baby solutions really aren't that workable to me. Someone can say the most outrageous thing and people won't believe them 100%, but they invariably say, "there's probably some truth in it." Why must there be some? Maybe there's no truth at all. No, where there is smoke there's not always fire. Maybe it's just smoke.

I often get frustrated when people conclude, "Well, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle." They know part of it is baloney, so they'll just accept 50% of it as being true. To me, if part of it is baloney, then the other 50% may be rat droppings, pig snouts and other unsavory meat filler.

Michele

[michelej1]

Speaking of the Bob Dylan thing (again! :rolleyes: ) ... did you catch her Michele in this interview when they were discussing this and she must have been quoting a new song? "I think that, you know on 'It's alright ma, I'm only dying' that you should like say, 'It's alright Ma - you're only dying.'"

This reminds me of the song I thought I heard before Lindsey's show in Atlanta...:shrug:

I did hear this, but I figured it must be an old classic song that I wasn't familiar with that she was quoting. It didn't occur to me that it might be something new and original.

I remember when you talked about that song.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

:cool:

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[michelej1]

but i'm just catching now what you meant CAD - a new lindsey song? about SN's mom?

And...EDIT: thanks Lindsfan - apparently yes, an old Dylan song.

But this is still interesting. She did Circle Dance because of her dad. I could see her and Lindsey putting that song into the FM setlist, because of her mom's passing.

Michele

[WildHearted]

I don't. I think she swithches back and forth every couple years between adoring him and hating him...and always as publicly as possible. I just suffered through the whole hour long video and she bashes him beginning to end.

She said at least she didn't HATE Dave (as opposed to Lindsey)
She said she didn't want to tell Lindsey what he was doing was stupid.
She said Dave (as opposed to Lindsey) understands women because he has two daughters (same thing she said ABOUT Lindsey just a few years ago).
She said she told Lindsey he could add a few chords here and there but nothing else! :shocked: Are you kidding me?! Let's take Lindsey's parts out of Gold Dust Woman, Gypsy, Dreams, Landslide, etc. No riffs. No counter-melodies. No harmonies that he comes up with. Um, he's done more with her songs than add a few chords :rolleyes:

Nothing that she said about Lindsey was anything new (although she did offhandedly confirm that You May Be The One was about him, which I don't think had been explicitly said before). We've all heard the coffee pot demo spiel, the duo tirade, etc., etc.

She was taking stabs at him regarding their relationship, for sure, but it was done pretty lightheartedly if you ask me. And I think she kept it up because it was getting laughs. So yeah, she was pretty brutal but in my opinion, none of it came off THAT seriously. She was making me laugh, at least. :shrug:

All throughout the IYD promo, she consistently sang his praises. I do think they tend to have a very hot/cold relationship, but unless a bunch of stuff has been going on behind the scenes (and it very well may have, I certainly wouldn't know!) then I doubt she's just randomly switched into kill Lindsey mode.

That said, I did get the vibe that she was totally for real about the Bob Dylan saga and that that legitimately still bugs her.

[CADreaming]

it's not a bob dylan song? ;)

:cool:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pQ5XtabITh8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Well, color me embarrassed. :p

I know Dylan, but I guess not that well!

Nevermind!

[CADreaming]

Nothing that she said about Lindsey was anything new (although she did offhandedly confirm that You May Be The One was about him, which I don't think had been explicitly said before). We've all heard the coffee pot demo spiel, the duo tirade, etc., etc.

She was taking stabs at him regarding their relationship, for sure, but it was done pretty lightheartedly if you ask me. And I think she kept it up because it was getting laughs. So yeah, she was pretty brutal but in my opinion, none of it came off THAT seriously. She was making me laugh, at least. :shrug:

All throughout the IYD promo, she consistently sang his praises. I do think they tend to have a very hot/cold relationship, but unless a bunch of stuff has been going on behind the scenes (and it very well may have, I certainly wouldn't know!) then I doubt she's just randomly switched into kill Lindsey mode.

That said, I did get the vibe that she was totally for real about the Bob Dylan saga and that that legitimately still bugs her.

Eh, not that much -- she likes that she gets a laugh out of it more than anything, I think. Like, she said - he should know better and I think he does. He probably just pushes her buttons -- just as much as she pushes his. For all we know he's been telling her that since day one and she's always responded with the Bob Dylan line. LOL.

Oh, but she did add some new info to their history -- small details that I really dig. Like she said she always wrote at "home" and named his parents house as one of those places. I thought that was neat. Of course, I think they lived there when they moved back during Lindsey's illness.

[michelej1]

She was taking stabs at him regarding their relationship, for sure, but it was done pretty lightheartedly if you ask me. And I think she kept it up because it was getting laughs. So yeah, she was pretty brutal but in my opinion, none of it came off THAT seriously. She was making me laugh, at least. :shrug:


She's a funny gal. I mean, even the way she said the boys told Christine blah, blah, blah and then she was naming off who the boys were and said, "Mick, John and . . .well, it was just Mick and John, because Lindsey wasn't there yet." It made me smile. Her general fuzziness is . . . well, she is definitely Yogi Berra.

Michele

[elle]

She said at least she didn't HATE Dave (as opposed to Lindsey)

yeah, audience LOVED and cheered the hating-lindsey line!

but in all fairness, it was similar in 92Y when interviewer asked Lindsey about reactions to him coming into studio and saying "here's my new song - go your own way" and Lindsey added "you bi*ch" - audience loved that one too! :shrug:

[michelej1]

Eh, not that much -- she likes that she gets a laugh out of it more than anything, I think. Like, she said - he should know better and I think he does. He probably just pushes her buttons -- just as much as she pushes his.


Yes, Lindsey was bothering her. He does try to irk her and when you've known someone that long and they bother you, you say, "oh, shut up" and you forget about it by the next day, usually.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

Nothing that she said about Lindsey was anything new (although she did offhandedly confirm that You May Be The One was about him, which I don't think had been explicitly said before). We've all heard the coffee pot demo spiel, the duo tirade, etc., etc.

She was taking stabs at him regarding their relationship, for sure, but it was done pretty lightheartedly if you ask me. And I think she kept it up because it was getting laughs. So yeah, she was pretty brutal but in my opinion, none of it came off THAT seriously. She was making me laugh, at least. :shrug:

All throughout the IYD promo, she consistently sang his praises. I do think they tend to have a very hot/cold relationship, but unless a bunch of stuff has been going on behind the scenes (and it very well may have, I certainly wouldn't know!) then I doubt she's just randomly switched into kill Lindsey mode.
That said, I did get the vibe that she was totally for real about the Bob Dylan saga and that that legitimately still bugs her.

True, maybe not new, but it was pretty non-stop and so to anyone who isn't used to deciphering her language, it sounded very mean spirirted. It did to me.

The part about You May Be the One was in fact kinda cute. And really, who else would it be about? LOL. But that was the only part, at least for me. I really think she came across very, very bitter. What he saaidabout her lyrics in the Destiny Rules doc. was just so not that big a deal. Why shouldn't he have asked and why does she still dwell on it? It's weird.

Kill Lindsey mode :laugh: Sincerely, I needed that laugh...thank you :)

[Lindsfan]

yeah, audience LOVED and cheered the hating-lindsey line!

but in all fairness, it was similar in 92Y when interviewer asked Lindsey about reactions to him coming into studio and saying "here's my new song - go your own way" and Lindsey added "you bi*ch" - audience loved that one too! :shrug:

No, that wasn't nice either. But that didn't continue for the better part of an hour.

[WildHearted]

Oh, but she did add some new info to their history -- small details that I really dig. Like she said she always wrote at "home" and named his parents house as one of those places. I thought that was neat. Of course, I think they lived there when they moved back during Lindsey's illness.

I picked up on that little tidbit too. Interesting stuff. I also did appreciate the clarification regarding her parent's support and their move to LA - I had never been sure if her parents had continued to provide for her/them during the BN years after she left school or not. Now, I wonder when that letter from Barabara that popped up on here recently was written, then? She says she was still 'contributing to her upkeep' at the time..

She's a funny gal. I mean, even the way she said the boys told Christine blah, blah, blah and then she was naming off who the boys were and said, "Mick, John and . . .well, it was just Mick and John, because Lindsey wasn't there yet." It made me smile. Her general fuzziness is . . . well, she is definitely Yogi Berra.

Michele

I agree! My mom watched the Conversation with me, and while she has little to no interest in Stevie Nicks or Fleetwood Mac whatsoever (it was just "bonding time"), she laughed throughout the whole thing and said she was hysterical at the end. Surprisingly, my mother also commented on how great Stevie's memory is, which I found hysterical. :lol:

[Lindsfan]

She's a funny gal. I mean, even the way she said the boys told Christine blah, blah, blah and then she was naming off who the boys were and said, "Mick, John and . . .well, it was just Mick and John, because Lindsey wasn't there yet." It made me smile. Her general fuzziness is . . . well, she is definitely Yogi Berra.

Michele

I stand corrected. That part was cute too ;)

[michelej1]

No, that wasn't nice either. But that didn't continue for the better part of an hour.

Oh man, the world would have probably ended if it had. December 21, 2012 would have come early. Armageddon baby.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

Oh man, the world would have probably ended if it had. December 21, 2012 would have come early. Armageddon baby.

Michele

No kidding, right?!! :eek:

[CADreaming]

yeah, audience LOVED and cheered the hating-lindsey line!

but in all fairness, it was similar in 92Y when interviewer asked Lindsey about reactions to him coming into studio and saying "here's my new song - go your own way" and Lindsey added "you bi*ch" - audience loved that one too! :shrug:

Well, that's part of their war of the worlds, Elle. It's like the new songs she says get dropped out of the set when there's no audience response. They keep this thing going (not that they don't have their real moments) but they also milk it because they get a response. If it was a real war -- they wouldn't still be in a band together - not even sporadically.

[elle]

No, that wasn't nice either. But that didn't continue for the better part of an hour.

agree. that was the only jab he took (and as something he would have been thinking during rumours era, not now) and it got a huge laugh. the rest of it was all loving and gentle towards her, actually.

[elle]

Well, that's part of their war of the worlds, Elle. It's like the new songs she says get dropped out of the set when there's no audience response. They keep this thing going (not that they don't have their real moments) but they also milk it because they get a response. If it was a real war -- they wouldn't still be in a band together - not even sporadically.

hmm, i don't know about that. plenty of dinosaur bands with inter-hating members (though usually all guys) who keep getting together sporadically as they decide they need to make some more money.:shrug:

[CADreaming]

agree. that was the only jab he took (and as something he would have been thinking during rumours era, not now) and it got a huge laugh. the rest of it was all loving and gentle towards her, actually.

Of course! Lindsey's her straight man. :D

[CADreaming]

hmm, i don't know about that. plenty of dinosaur bands with inter-hating members (though usually all guys) who keep getting together sporadically as they decide they need to make some more money.:shrug:

More that couldn't handle it and broke up -- or have continued without the members they hated -- or took very long breaks before they worked anything out. Mix in love relationships and I think the number decreases significantly.

[MikeInNV]

He probably just pushes her buttons -- just as much as she pushes his.

After giving it some thought (and reading all the threads spurred by the Q&A), I don't think Lindsey and Stevie push each other's buttons nearly as much as Ledgies push each others'.

[elle]

Of course! Lindsey's her straight man. :D

:confused: he talks lovingly about her b/c he's her straight man? :shrug:

[CADreaming]

:confused: he talks lovingly about her b/c he's her straight man? :shrug:

Just a joke, elle.

[michelej1]

More that couldn't handle it and broke up -- or have continued without the members they hated -- or took very long breaks before they worked anything out. Mix in love relationships and I think the number decreases significantly.

I think plenty of people worked together while hating each other. But it's pretty clear in my mind that Stevie and Lindsey love each other. I don't see what they do to (say about) each other as anything more than relatives (who loved each other) would do to each other. Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me as an FM watcher. It still does very much, but not at all because I think they don't all care about each other.



Michele

[elle]

Just a joke, elle.

you had me looking up "straight" in the dictionary to figure out whether it had some meanings i was not aware of. :laugh:

[Nico]

I don't. I think she swithches back and forth every couple years between adoring him and hating him...and always as publicly as possible. I just suffered through the whole hour long video and she bashes him beginning to end.

She said at least she didn't HATE Dave (as opposed to Lindsey)
She said she didn't want to tell Lindsey what he was doing was stupid.
She said Dave (as opposed to Lindsey) understands women because he has two daughters (same thing she said ABOUT Lindsey just a few years ago).
She said she told Lindsey he could add a few chords here and there but nothing else! :shocked: Are you kidding me?! Let's take Lindsey's parts out of Gold Dust Woman, Gypsy, Dreams, Landslide, etc. No riffs. No counter-melodies. No harmonies that he comes up with. Um, he's done more with her songs than add a few chords :rolleyes:


Are you serious? All of this? Ok, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but now I understand how you feel. Honestly Stevie. Look at your life, look at your choices. Why does she have to throw shade on Lindsey? Why can't she talk about her business and mention Linds where need be but why continually drag him through the mud, over and over? That's wrong.

If the shoe were on the other foot, he wouldn't do it. Lindsey has always been classy in this way. He may feel anger and resentment of his own, but he doesn't need to publicly berate others for his own benefit. I really am disappoint. Thank you for the clarification...I didn't get to see the hour-long video and I don't have a desire to.

[elle]

I think plenty of people worked together while hating each other. But it's pretty clear in my mind that Stevie and Lindsey love each other. I don't see what they do to (say about) each other as anything more than relatives (who loved each other) would do to each other. Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me as an FM watcher. It still does very much, but not at all because I think they don't all care about each other.

agree. :nod:

[Lindsfan]

Are you serious? All of this? Ok, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but now I understand how you feel. Honestly Stevie. Look at your life, look at your choices. Why does she have to throw shade on Lindsey? Why can't she talk about her business and mention Linds where need be but why continually drag him through the mud, over and over? That's wrong.

If the shoe were on the other foot, he wouldn't do it. Lindsey has always been classy in this way. He may feel anger and resentment of his own, but he doesn't need to publicly berate others for his own benefit. I really am disappoint. Thank you for the clarification...I didn't get to see the hour-long video and I don't have a desire to.

I made myself watch it. Ya know...took one for the team ;)

I think plenty of people worked together while hating each other. But it's pretty clear in my mind that Stevie and Lindsey love each other. I don't see what they do to (say about) each other as anything more than relatives (who loved each other) would do to each other. Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me as an FM watcher. It still does very much, but not at all because I think they don't all care about each other.

Michele

Exactly. As always, the voice of reason :nod:

[michelej1]

you had me looking up "straight" in the dictionary to figure out whether it had some meanings i was not aware of. :laugh:

Yes and there were some meanings of "straight" that I was aware of and I wondered if Dee intended to include those in her meaning as well:laugh:.

Michele

[WildHearted]

Are you serious? All of this? Ok, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but now I understand how you feel. Honestly Stevie. Look at your life, look at your choices. Why does she have to throw shade on Lindsey? Why can't she talk about her business and mention Linds where need be but why continually drag him through the mud, over and over? That's wrong.

If the shoe were on the other foot, he wouldn't do it. Lindsey has always been classy in this way. He may feel anger and resentment of his own, but he doesn't need to publicly berate others for his own benefit. I really am disappoint. Thank you for the clarification...I didn't get to see the hour-long video and I don't have a desire to.

Meh.... singling out statements like that make them come off a LOT worse than they did in the context of everything she said.

The first comment: She was talking about how it was easier for her to open up and be willing to collaborate with Dave writing-wise, because they didn't go into it with any baggage because they didn't have all of the history that she and Lindsey had, she didn't have any reasons to hate Dave.

The second comment: She was talking (again) about being in the duo, and loving someone and living with someone and having to work with someone, and how it was hard to keep it all separate. How if you loved someone, you didn't want to tell that person that what they were doing (musically) was stupid, so you just let it happen and then ended up with a product that you weren't crazy about.

The third comment, well, that's pretty much how it was said. :lol: But it was all tying back into why she could write with Dave - because he apparently can read her face since he's good with women.

And the last comment, that was just part of the whole "I never wrote WITH Lindsey, I just left him demos next to the coffee pot that said, "New song! You can produce it and add a chord here or there but don't change it!"

Not to say that any of those things were necessary to say - they weren't, of course. And obviously, they could be interpreted as being mean-spirited. However, they seem A LOT worse as stand-alone statements than they did in the context of the stories she was telling.

:shrug:

[elle]

If the shoe were on the other foot, he wouldn't do it. Lindsey has always been classy in this way.

yes. he sounds much classier re not airing any private spats in his public appearances.

other than Christine burning her bridges, of course. ;)


of course, Lindsey seems to have much more settled and satisfying current life, so less reasons to be bitter.

[CADreaming]

But it's pretty clear in my mind that Stevie and Lindsey love each other. I don't see what they do to (say about) each other as anything more than relatives (who loved each other) would do to each other. Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me as an FM watcher. It still does very much, but not at all because I think they don't all care about each other.



Michele

Exactly.


you had me looking up "straight" in the dictionary to figure out whether it had some meanings i was not aware of. :laugh:

Hahaha! Sorry!

Are you serious? All of this? Ok, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but now I understand how you feel. Honestly Stevie. Look at your life, look at your choices. Why does she have to throw shade on Lindsey? Why can't she talk about her business and mention Linds where need be but why continually drag him through the mud, over and over? That's wrong.

.

I really didn't get that impression- in fact I thought she was trying to be careful in her wording for the most part. The only thing that really bothered me was when she said "your music is making my song suck" but she wasn't specifically talking about him -- but you knew she was because she used it during her whole "if you love somebody you don't want to tell them that what they are doing is stupid." bit. Anyway, while I understand what she is saying and how it seems like since SYW she has been careful about wanting to maintain the peace with Lindsey and thinks they should not get in the studio together in order to do that, I think she's also being hypocritical. What's different about now than then? I mean, she said all that bull about the music making her song suck, which sounded like she was really referring to the SYW stuff, but then she turned around at the end and basically told a fan in Q&A that if her songs made it for us to hear it then she was happy with the finished product. That's what I have always said about the SYW songs of hers everyone gripes about. And, I sort of think she got wind of that and has rode that wave out entirely too long. Because I think if she truly hated something she would have pulled it.

Other than that part I didn't get the overall vibe she was being mean. She pointed out (again, indirectly) that Lindsey was controlling in the studio (which he admits himself) and she said she wants to co-pilot. Basically, she gets bored with his tinkering and wants to 'get it done'. Because, even at the end of 2009 when they did the UK doc on FM, and they were asked about Tusk she was complaining about how long it took and how they thought Lindsey had lost his mind with all his sound experiments, but then she said the end result were all these awesome songs. And, when SWS came out she was bragging about how he had swallowed the melody pills. So, she's talking out of both sides of her mouth.

Later, she compared Nancy Wilson to Lindsey, saying she was a step below him as a guitarist and that was obviously high praise in context.

[Lindsfan]

I really didn't get that impression- in fact I thought she was trying to be careful in her wording for the most part. The only thing that really bothered me was when she said "your music is making my song suck" but she wasn't specifically talking about him -- but you knew she was because she used it during her whole "if you love somebody you don't want to tell them that what they are doing is stupid." bit. Anyway, while I understand what she is saying and how it seems like since SYW she has been careful about wanting to maintain the peace with Lindsey and thinks they should not get in the studio together in order to do that, I think she's also being hypocritical. What's different about now than then? I mean, she said all that bull about the music making her song suck, which sounded like she was really referring to the SYW stuff, but then she turned around at the end and basically told a fan in Q&A that if her songs made it for us to hear it then she was happy with the finished product. That's what I have always said about the SYW songs of hers everyone gripes about. And, I sort of think she got wind of that and has rode that wave out entirely too long. Because I think if she truly hated something she would have pulled it.

Other than that part I didn't get the overall vibe she was being mean. She pointed out (again, indirectly) that Lindsey was controlling in the studio (which he admits himself) and she said she wants to co-pilot. Basically, she gets bored with his tinkering and wants to 'get it done'. Because, even at the end of 2009 when they did the UK doc on FM, and they were asked about Tusk she was complaining about how long it took and how they thought Lindsey had lost his mind with all his sound experiments, but then she said the end result were all these awesome songs. And, when SWS came out she was bragging about how he had swallowed the melody pills. So, she's talking out of both sides of her mouth.
Later, she compared Nancy Wilson to Lindsey, saying she was a step below him as a guitarist and that was obviously high praise in context.

Thanks for reminding me ;) How did I neglect to mention that??!!

She does talk out of both sides. You got that right! But again, what else is new? :p Anyways, I think the quote was he was taking lyrics pills though wasn't it? Which is another gripe of mine. In fact, I meant to ask him about that in a meet and greet. Her implying he's not much of a lyrics writer, at least until SWS, bothers me to no end. But of course, he's no better. He's often said he doesn't think much of his own lyrics eihter :shrug: They're both wrong. He's a brilliant lyricist. Has been for a long time.

And that last comment is a major understatement. I'd say several steps.

[elle]

She said she told Lindsey he could add a few chords here and there but nothing else! :shocked: Are you kidding me?! Let's take Lindsey's parts out of Gold Dust Woman, Gypsy, Dreams, Landslide, etc. No riffs. No counter-melodies. No harmonies that he comes up with. Um, he's done more with her songs than add a few chords :rolleyes:

And the last comment, that was just part of the whole "I never wrote WITH Lindsey, I just left him demos next to the coffee pot that said, "New song! You can produce it and add a chord here or there but don't change it!"



i'm possibly reading way too much into it, but like Lindsfan, this jumped out at me as really annoying when i was listening to the interview. plus i think she repeated it couple of times (maybe during convo and then after movie q&a), as to drive home a point that LB contributed to her songs nothing more than just a chord here and there and producing them.

Landslide and Gypsy or Rhiannon are great examples - the guitar melodies and chords in these songs are so distinctive. did Stevie come up with any of those? start of Rhiannon? or Lindsey did change them, after all? ;):rolleyes: LB never received any co-credit; that was just extra chord, arranging, or producing. he contributed nothing more. unlike Dave who has co-writing / music credit for most of the IYD songs.

that said, i do think Dave wrote much more music for her IYD songs than Lindsey did for her older songs. it seems she had no melody to start with for most of those IYD songs co-credited to Dave.

[WildHearted]

i'm possibly reading way too much into it, but like Lindsfan, this jumped out at me as really annoying when i was listening to the interview. plus i think she repeated it couple of times (maybe during convo and then after movie q&a), as to drive home a point that LB contributed to her songs nothing more than just a chord here and there and producing them.

Landslide and Gypsy or Rhiannon are great examples - the guitar melodies and chords in these songs are so distinctive. did Stevie come up with any of those? start of Rhiannon? or Lindsey did change them, after all? ;):rolleyes: LB never received any co-credit; that was just extra chord, arranging, or producing. he contributed nothing more. unlike Dave who has co-writing / music credit for most of the IYD songs.

that said, i do think Dave wrote much more music for her IYD songs than Lindsey did for her older songs. it seems she had no melody to start with for most of those IYD songs co-credited to Dave.

Well, with the songs that Lindsey works on, Stevie already has the chord progression and melody and the basic direction. The song is "written." He just (and I say "just" very lightly :lol:) fleshes it out and kind of takes it to the places that her demos are heading but that she can't reach on her own. Stevie has, again, extensively praised Lindsey for all of the wonderful things he has done with her songs. However, I think in her mind, those songs are WRITTEN when she gives them to him. I think the 'adding a chord here and there' was meant in regards to the actual songwriting process, in terms of the structure itself (say.. adding a transitional chord in a place that there initially wasn't one). I do not think that statement was meant at all in relation to Lindsey constructing his guitar part, filling out the sound, or in his "production" work as I believe she referred to it.

With Dave, her melody is dependent on whatever chords he was playing. He essentially came up with the chord progressions (with reinforcement from Stevie) which guided her melodies. And THEN he did all of the stuff that Lindsey usually does, I'm assuming. So it's a different thing, obviously.

And then of course, you can't discount the other musicians - John, Mick, and Chris in FM and Stevie's own solo band. I believe they all pretty much come/came up with their own parts after listening to the demos and being told what the feel is and everything.

(On a somewhat random note, I've always wondered if it was Stevie who came up with the Rhiannon riff [a la her piano versions of it] or Lindsey when working out the song, and also wondered whether or not Stevie wrote the basics of the Landslide guitar part (she did say that Lindsey taught her how to pick the guitar that she wrote it on). Someone should ask her at one of these things :lol:)

[elle]

(On a somewhat random note, I've always wondered if it was Stevie who came up with the Rhiannon riff [a la her piano versions of it] or Lindsey when working out the song, and also wondered whether or not Stevie wrote the basics of the Landslide guitar part (she did say that Lindsey taught her how to pick the guitar that she wrote it on). Someone should ask her at one of these things :lol:)

i think i read somewhere not long ago LB came up with Rhiannon riff / progression, i believe it was said by someone from FM, or maybe it was Gary Hodges? (but i might be wrong).

no idea about Landslide. maybe watching that video on youtube where Lindsey teaches how to play Lanslide, Big Love and something else would clarify it. he starts by saying "Landslide is a song that Stevie wrote" but don't remember whether he talks about what exactly he added to it, it's very possible he does.

[michelej1]

Landslide and Gypsy or Rhiannon are great examples - the guitar melodies and chords in these songs are so distinctive. did Stevie come up with any of those? start of Rhiannon? or Lindsey did change them, after all? ;):rolleyes: LB never received any co-credit; that was just extra chord, arranging, or producing. he contributed nothing more. unlike Dave who has co-writing / music credit for most of the IYD songs.


Yes and I recall Christine saying how Dreams was kind of monotonous until Lindsey got ahold of it. But Stevie knows this too. One time, after he'd left the group, she said he made her songs sound great and she didn't know how to thank him, except maybe give him 10% of her royalties. Of course, she finished that thought by saying that, conversely, the songs of hers that are crummy sound that way because he was being mean to her and didn't want to help her. So, she giveth and she taketh away.

Michele

[michelej1]

And then of course, you can't discount the other musicians - John, Mick, and Chris in FM and Stevie's own solo band. I believe they all pretty much come/came up with their own parts after listening to the demos and being told what the feel is and everything.


Oh yes, like Christine's intro to Silver Springs. Michele

[CADreaming]

Thanks for reminding me ;) How did I neglect to mention that??!!

She does talk out of both sides. You got that right! But again, what else is new? :p Anyways, I think the quote was he was taking lyrics pills though wasn't it? Which is another gripe of mine. In fact, I meant to ask him about that in a meet and greet. Her implying he's not much of a lyrics writer, at least until SWS, bothers me to no end. But of course, he's no better. He's often said he doesn't think much of his own lyrics eihter :shrug: They're both wrong. He's a brilliant lyricist. Has been for a long time.

And that last comment is a major understatement. I'd say several steps.

Most of her quotes she just mentioned melody pills but I did find the Perez Hilton quote about SWS: "But it's my favorite thing he's ever done. I think it's brilliant. I think he took some serious melody pills and lyric pills and he came up with a beautiful, beautiful album."

i'm possibly reading way too much into it, but like Lindsfan, this jumped out at me as really annoying when i was listening to the interview. plus i think she repeated it couple of times (maybe during convo and then after movie q&a), as to drive home a point that LB contributed to her songs nothing more than just a chord here and there and producing them.

Landslide and Gypsy or Rhiannon are great examples - the guitar melodies and chords in these songs are so distinctive. did Stevie come up with any of those? start of Rhiannon? or Lindsey did change them, after all? ;):rolleyes: LB never received any co-credit; that was just extra chord, arranging, or producing. he contributed nothing more. unlike Dave who has co-writing / music credit for most of the IYD songs.

that said, i do think Dave wrote much more music for her IYD songs than Lindsey did for her older songs. it seems she had no melody to start with for most of those IYD songs co-credited to Dave.

I think the Lindsey sensitivity is a little blinding, and understandably so. Stevie gets tripped up on herself sometimes. She really isn't insulting Lindsey's work on her songs, but she digs herself a hole and doesn't know how to get out of it. She would be stupid to say she hated his work on all of her hits. And, time and time again she has praised his work and said he could take her stuff and do what she couldn't do for herself. "When I see you doing what I try to do for me..."

And, not to start argument -- but give her some credit. Both she and Lindsey have said she has the melody and basic song structure down when she gives it to him. The Rhiannon "riff" -- her piano version has that in it, it's just not a "riff". I think it's interesting though to hear their explanation. Lindsey said his tendency was just to "add rhythm and rock it up".

See their explanation here at :43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4hp3W3bv28&feature=channel&list=UL

You're right about Dave though. And, he isn't credited on every song on IYD. The fact is, he is not credited at all on the songs she already had on demo (Secret Love, Moonlight, Annabel Lee, Soldier's Angel) and the two songs she wrote with guitar tracks from Mike Campbell and Neale Heywood. Waddy is also credited on Annabel Lee so he must have worked on the original song they tried to track in the 90's. For all the other songs, Dave took poems she had and put music and then told her to sing. So, he did write the music and she had no preconceived notions about the melody or anything else. And, that is what has been different about this process for her and how she has been used to doing things all of career. She wrote the songs and then trusted Lindsey to make it into something you would listen to.

"Lindsey pretty much, and the band, would take my skeletal songs…. and…. work them out… with me listening, to make sure that I liked them…. Umm… and- and do them pretty much on their own, and the only time that I would stop them is if I- if they did something to one of my songs that I really didn’t like… which happened very seldom."

i think i read somewhere not long ago LB came up with Rhiannon riff / progression, i believe it was said by someone from FM, or maybe it was Gary Hodges? (but i might be wrong).

no idea about Landslide. maybe watching that video on youtube where Lindsey teaches how to play Lanslide, Big Love and something else would clarify it. he starts by saying "Landslide is a song that Stevie wrote" but don't remember whether he talks about what exactly he added to it, it's very possible he does.

Stevie wrote Landslide on the guitar in Aspen alone by herself when everyone else had gone out.

I think if Lindsey thought he needed to be given writer's credit, he would argue that point. (He may lose, but he would argue it. lol)

[elle]

^see, to my ears that Rhiannon progression she sings in Don't Stop doc clip is nothing like what he plays right after. probably just me. :shrug:

She would be stupid to say she hated his work on all of her hits. And, time and time again she has praised his work and said he could take her stuff and do what she couldn't do for herself.
completely agree, she used to say all the time how he'd take her rudimentary songs and make them pretty, make them into a real song. that's why what she was saying the other day was so odd to some of us - b/c it sounded almost the opposite from those past statements. she repeated several times how she would never allow him to change her songs, how he just added a little chord here and there, etc... like she was trying to minimize his contributions. like other stevie-speak, maybe that's not what she meant to say, but it was just odd. :shrug:

I think if Lindsey thought he needed to be given writer's credit, he would argue that point.
:laugh: :xoxo: i will repeat what i always say - i don't really care what Lindsey thinks... what i'm stating are my opinions on these things.

plus, Lindsey and her have all the baggage, while her and DS have a clean slate. maybe if LB did as much work on her songs now as he did in the past, he would want a co-credit these days? similarly as he never got co-producer credit on Rumours, but he did on Tusk.

and awwwww:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v_P2KO05YZc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[CADreaming]

^see, to my ears that Rhiannon progression she sings in Don't Stop doc clip is nothing like what he plays right after. probably just me. :shrug:

You're right -- it's just you! ;):xoxo: :D


she repeated several times how she would never allow him to change her songs, how he just added a little chord here and there, etc... like she was trying to minimize his contributions. like other stevie-speak, maybe that's not what she meant to say, but it was just odd. :shrug:

See, I hear what she was saying as, don't change the "heart & soul of the song" -- not don't do what you do and have always done. I think what she didn't add to her comments is this - if it starts to go that way she does say. But, she doesn't like to say because she feels like she is hurting his feelings and being a "beyotch", as she put it.


i will repeat what i always say - i don't really care what Lindsey thinks... what i'm stating are my opinions on these things.

plus, Lindsey and her have all the baggage, while her and DS have a clean slate. maybe if LB did as much work on her songs now as he did in the past, he would want a co-credit these days? similarly as he never got co-producer credit on Rumours, but he did on Tusk.

LOL about not caring what Lindsey thinks!!!

Idk if he would seek credit now. Stevie even said he really produced SA and he is not credited. He probably doesn't care a whole lot, really. He may throw all these bones her way because he has a guilt complex over .... something. :laugh: And, she's probably just fine accepting payment for his penance.

[elle]

He may throw all these bones her way because he has a guilt complex over .... something. :laugh: And, she's probably just fine accepting payment for his penance.

a-ha, completely agree with you there!

PS i was waiting for SA reference... but there he took away music, almost, not added it ;)

[CADreaming]

a-ha, completely agree with you there!

PS i was waiting for SA reference... but there he took away music, almost, not added it ;)

Genius!!! :nod:



And that last comment is a major understatement. I'd say several steps.

I wanted to comment on this. You're totally right. I felt she was trying to be diplomatic because she was also saying she was ticked at what they did. But, she felt they were friends, so she's giving generous compliments to soothe the sting of her not being happy with them. Not that she sincerely would rank Nancy Wilson as great as Lindsey - or even that close. I bet if she listed her top 10 favorite guitarists Nancy wouldn't make the cut.

[KindOfWoman90]

I think plenty of people worked together while hating each other. But it's pretty clear in my mind that Stevie and Lindsey love each other. I don't see what they do to (say about) each other as anything more than relatives (who loved each other) would do to each other. Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me as an FM watcher. It still does very much, but not at all because I think they don't all care about each other.

Michele

Not to beat a dead horse, but you put this so beautifully! Exactly! :nod:

You know, a point that I didn't see touched upon, in this thread or the one about the Q&A on Stevie's board, was how a therapist told her that in some ways the day she joined Fleetwood Mac was the saddest day of her life, or something to that effect, that she liked taking care of people. That role was taken from her. The way she put it made me feel very sad for her. She may come across as a bit bitter to some or unnecessarily harsh at times, but personally, I think a lot of that is just a facade, a defense mechanism. I always feel she's trying to protect herself when she speaks in a glib, harsh manner about Lindsey.

[darkcat]

yeah, audience LOVED and cheered the hating-lindsey line!

but in all fairness, it was similar in 92Y when interviewer asked Lindsey about reactions to him coming into studio and saying "here's my new song - go your own way" and Lindsey added "you bi*ch" - audience loved that one too! :shrug:

I think people just love to hear anything about the interaction between the two of them, regardless of what it is. I know I do:nod:

[HejiraNYC]

Lies, fairy tales, fallacies...Lindsey is serious, but he can be quite funny as well. I mean, look at the rapport he had with Brett on his past tours! And as far as no one adoring him, I'm done. I don't think I even need to acknowledge such ridiculousness.

Wow, what an incredibly annoying interview! She seems like she is living in a make-believe tabloid-ready world. I love Stevie, but some of the stuff she is saying is just so crazy. It is really obnoxious.


Oh, right. Someone who has known and worked with Lindsey for almost 50 years simply does not know a thing about him. :rolleyes: And what we see on a concert stage is total reality because, you know, it's not, like a show or anything like that. :rolleyes:

Thank you Lindsfan, luv. I am livid over this particular comment because everyone is always dragging LB through the mud. If it isn't one of his ex-girlfriends it's Ken Caillat or some other Joe. I really would like to say that a man can be serious and also have a fantastic sense of humor.

I think a single isolated account is one thing, but after hearing similar things about Lindsey from multiple sources, a more tangible image emerges- of a man who can be intensely finicky about his work and is prone to occasional acts of rage (allegedly). This is quite different from saying that he is not a talented musician and producer (which Stevie did not allege at all in these interviews). What we see of Lindsey (and pretty much any other figure in public life), can be a very, very different aspect of his persona than what he shows to the people in his personal life. You can choose to discredit one person's account of his personal conduct. But it gets increasingly more difficult to do that upon repeated confirmation about these same personality issues.


But regarding the Bob Dylan debacle - it seems petty to keep bringing it up since it seems like such a random insignificant little thing... but sometimes it's the little stuff that hurts your feelings and that you remember. It must have really bothered her, although as an outsider watching it's clear Lindsey was trying to be careful about how he approached it.

I agree that the inclusion of this particular Destiny Rules clip came across as a bit of a slam in a "Lindsey is a controlling douche" kinda way. But I think it was necessary to help underscore the point she was trying to make, which was that, as a songwriter and musician, Stevie refuses to follow any rules, and that Dave was able to appreciate this and to work with what she brought to the table. By contrast, Lindsey was trying (in the most passive and circuitous way possible) to enforce his rules about songwriting onto her, hence the flashback to the DR documentary. Yes, Lindsey gets thrown under the bus, but it helps the viewer to understand Dave and Stevie's working relationship that much better.


I love that interviewclip. She's witty and loose. Very much in shape too. And still someone who had Fame as a goal. And there, for me, is the major differente with her ex. Who had Fame as a goal too, but right after gaining it, he went for pure artistic values. They have à Very different view at the World.

Yes... the kind of artistic values that lead to scoring soundtracks for National Lampoon movies and Twizzlers Licorice commercials. :rolleyes: And take these lyrics from "Not Too Late":

So that's been a problem
Feeling unheard
So-called visions
Always deferred
It must be the reason
I developed this need
You know you should never
Believe what you read

What am I doing anyway?
Telling myself it's not too late

No, that doesn't sound like someone who is bitter because he is not ultra famous. :rolleyes:

I just suffered through the whole hour long video and she bashes him beginning to end.

She said at least she didn't HATE Dave (as opposed to Lindsey)

Lie. She never said that she hated Lindsey.

She said she didn't want to tell Lindsey what he was doing was stupid.

Lie. She basnever mentioned him by name.


She said Dave (as opposed to Lindsey) understands women because he has two daughters (same thing she said ABOUT Lindsey just a few years ago).

Lie. She never said anything about Lindsey in this context.


She said she told Lindsey he could add a few chords here and there but nothing else! :shocked: Are you kidding me?! Let's take Lindsey's parts out of Gold Dust Woman, Gypsy, Dreams, Landslide, etc. No riffs. No counter-melodies. No harmonies that he comes up with. Um, he's done more with her songs than add a few chords :rolleyes:

She was referring to the lyrics. She said that he can do his thing with the music, but don't change the song. What's wrong with saying that? :shrug: And how do you know that Lindsey came up with all of the harmonies and riffs? If he was really as "instrumental" to the fabrication of these songs as you think he was, he would have gotten a songwriting credit. Adding a riff or an extra chord or a guitar solo or a harmony does not constitute "songwriting."


Are you serious? All of this? Ok, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but now I understand how you feel. Honestly Stevie. Look at your life, look at your choices. Why does she have to throw shade on Lindsey? Why can't she talk about her business and mention Linds where need be but why continually drag him through the mud, over and over? That's wrong.

Um... maybe because Lindsey has been the most important and significant person in her life outside of her family. If she is before a paying audience talking about her music and her life, it would seem rather odd for her to omit any reference to Lindsey. That is really unreasonable.


If the shoe were on the other foot, he wouldn't do it. Lindsey has always been classy in this way.

Yes, calling Stevie a "b*tch," even in jest, is really classy. :rolleyes:

He may feel anger and resentment of his own, but he doesn't need to publicly berate others for his own benefit. I really am disappoint. Thank you for the clarification...I didn't get to see the hour-long video and I don't have a desire to.


It's obvious that you didn't watch the video because all of your assertions are way, way off-base.

yes. he sounds much classier re not airing any private spats in his public appearances.


What makes Stevie an infinitely more interesting interview subject than Lindsey is that she does not seem to hesitate to speak her mind, even if some of her opinions are somewhat blunt and ascerbic. Accordingly, I get the sense that I know her better as a person, which helps me to appreciate her lyrics even more. By contrast, Lindsey is oblique in interviews. Whenever I see him interviewed, I always get the sense that I am hearing a canned response that has been rehearsed and memorized in his mind. I can practically see the cogs ticking around. And when he does get a question that requires some thought, I see him struggling a bit to find the right wording to formulate a response that is more diplomatic than revealing. Yeah, I guess that makes him seem like an upstanding, nice guy. But to me that's boring. Why even bother getting interviewed if you are only going to reveal yourself through a frosted lens?


of course, Lindsey seems to have much more settled and satisfying current life, so less reasons to be bitter.

I'm not sure how/why you have drawn that conclusion. From the looks of things, Stevie is in a wonderful place in her life. She is on a creatively satisfying and enjoyable arc with her music. She has wonderful homes, a perennially successful career, a loving family and her various charitable causes. I think anybody would trade places with her!


i think i read somewhere not long ago LB came up with Rhiannon riff / progression, i believe it was said by someone from FM, or maybe it was Gary Hodges? (but i might be wrong).

no idea about Landslide. maybe watching that video on youtube where Lindsey teaches how to play Lanslide, Big Love and something else would clarify it. he starts by saying "Landslide is a song that Stevie wrote" but don't remember whether he talks about what exactly he added to it, it's very possible he does.

For one thing, I think the "riff" you mention for "Rhiannon" is not really a "riff" IMHO. It's merely Lindsey playing the chords on guitar instead of the chords on piano (like Stevie's demo). I do think it is unlikely that Stevie came up with the guitar part for "Landslide" note-for-note, but I do believe that she probably came up with the melody and the basic chord structure herself. Lindsey wrote his own music arrangement on guitar, but that in itself does not mean he should get songwriting credit.

Genius!!! :nod:

I wanted to comment on this. You're totally right. I felt she was trying to be diplomatic because she was also saying she was ticked at what they did. But, she felt they were friends, so she's giving generous compliments to soothe the sting of her not being happy with them. Not that she sincerely would rank Nancy Wilson as great as Lindsey - or even that close. I bet if she listed her top 10 favorite guitarists Nancy wouldn't make the cut.

I think it's safe to say that both of the Wilson sisters are currently on her sh*t list. :lol: I don't think Nancy is a bad guitarist, but even among female guitarists, I don't think she's that impressive. Joni Mitchell is/was far superior.

[michelej1]

Oh, Hejira NYC who can go point by point, but just on the homes you mentioned: you know how lonely Stevie said the house felt. In fact, it probably got more of a work out when she recorded in it than it has ever had since she purchased it.

When she first toured it as a prospective buyer, she fell in love with it because it had been owned by a family. She felt their activity and spirit inside. Then, when she purchased it and moved in herself, she felt the loss of that family life. She realized that what she loved was the family atmosphere, rather than the house itself. So, that's why she spent most of the time in her condo instead. I think that anecdote is a metaphor for so much that she feels.

Michele

[Lori40]

Did everyone forget that there's going to be an FM tour next year? They have no new album to promote, so they have to generate some kind of interest in the band. What does everyone love about FM, aside from their music?

"...Only creatures who are on their way
Ever poison their own well
But we still have time to hate
And there's still something we can sell..."

[elle]

Oh, right.

hi HejiraNYC! :wavey:

i'm happy to see you are still as fierce in defending The Chiffon Queen as many people here are in defending The Buck!! :nod::xoxo:

sorry you had to step out of the chiffon cloud you've been enveloped in for the last 2 days and see all this! :distress:


oh - you know that songwriter that SN has to hate because she has a lot of past baggage with him? the one that's not LB? i'm sure that guy, when he wrote some song for the rumours album and brought it into the studio saying it is called go your own way (you bi*ch)... i'm sure he must have meant someone like KC maybe? definitely not SN - pure lie that "bi*ch" term was meant for her - because he never said that it was! (after all, didn't he say Paul Simon was his bi*ch on SNL?). ;) :angel:

[CADreaming]

^Probably the same guy she doesn't want to say what's he was doing was stupid because she loves him too... ;)

[KindOfWoman90]

oh - you know that songwriter that SN has to hate because she has a lot of past baggage with him? the one that's not LB? i'm sure that guy, when he wrote some song for the rumours album and brought it into the studio saying it is called go your own way (you bi*ch)... i'm sure he must have meant someone like KC maybe?

hehe that bit made me literally lol :lol: :p

[HejiraNYC]

hi HejiraNYC! :wavey:

i'm happy to see you are still as fierce in defending The Chiffon Queen as many people here are in defending The Buck!! :nod::xoxo:

sorry you had to step out of the chiffon cloud you've been enveloped in for the last 2 days and see all this! :distress:


oh - you know that songwriter that SN has to hate because she has a lot of past baggage with him? the one that's not LB? i'm sure that guy, when he wrote some song for the rumours album and brought it into the studio saying it is called go your own way (you bi*ch)... i'm sure he must have meant someone like KC maybe? definitely not SN - pure lie that "bi*ch" term was meant for her - because he never said that it was! (after all, didn't he say Paul Simon was his bi*ch on SNL?). ;) :angel:

If there is one thing I would have to say about chiffonheads, at least their perceptions are somewhat rooted in reality and fact. This thread has been nothing but wild accusations and inferences that are based on nothing she said. I find it hilarious that people here think they know Lindsey as a person better than Stevie. :lol: How can one say she is lying when nobody outside of Lindsey's personal world really knows the truth? The anti-Stevie animus here is just astounding. What did she ever do to you? She speaks her truth, and I suppose the truth can be difficult to accept. And why do people who really do not know Stevie as a musician automatically discredit any possibility that she could have composed her classic songs all by herself? Not only is this thinking irrational, it strikes me as being thinly-veiled sexism.

At the end of the day, you can either believe what she says about Lindsey or you can simply disregard it. But she has a right to say it just like Lindsey has the right to defend himself. I have no reason not to believe her. Also, I happen to agree with Stevie that Lindsey deserved a brutal verbal beatdown for his condescending lecture about songwriting. And I am glad that she included that scene in the IYD documentary. The contrast between making SYW and IYD is really like night and day.

[CADreaming]

^Well, no worries. They don't want Stevie recording with Lindsey anyway... :distress:

[vivfox]

This thread has been much fun to read. Everyone's opinions have been very entertaining. I'm so glad Stevie just did 2 different Q&A sessions because it made The Ledge come alive again and frankly my friends, that's a good thing.
I love you all,
Viv

[michelej1]

And why do people who really do not know Stevie as a musician automatically discredit any possibility that she could have composed her classic songs all by herself? Not only is this thinking irrational, it strikes me as being thinly-veiled sexism.

Call it what you will, but I hardly think it is sexism since the same thing would NOT be said of Christine.

Michele

[HejiraNYC]

Call it what you will, but I hardly think it is sexism since the same thing would NOT be said of Christine.

Michele

Well, that would be an interesting discussion, wouldn't it? I am inclined to think that people would generally assume that Lindsey was responsible for co-writing Christine's songs as well. But then again, I also personally believe that Christine is somehow given a pass because she unintentionally projected an air of stereotypical "masculinity;" her image was never sexualized like Stevie was in the 70s and 80s. Plus she participated in FM in a stereotypically masculine role- the main songwriter and instrumentalist- a role that was extremely rare for women in a mainstream rock and roll band at that time. In other words, perhaps she is subconsciously given more credibility as a musician because of her masculine energy and the fact that she did not project a more stereotypically female image (like Stevie). Would Christine be taken as seriously if she wore ballet leotards, chiffon, scarves and capes on stage? I think it would be impossible to answer this question, but I do think gender roles in rock music is a real issue.

[michelej1]

Well, that would be an interesting discussion, wouldn't it? I am inclined to think that people would generally assume that Lindsey was responsible for co-writing Christine's songs as well. But then again, I also personally believe that Christine is somehow given a pass because she unintentionally projected an air of stereotypical "masculinity;" her image was never sexualized like Stevie was in the 70s and 80s. Plus she participated in FM in a stereotypically masculine role- the main songwriter and instrumentalist- a role that was extremely rare for women in a mainstream rock and roll band at that time. In other words, perhaps she is subconsciously given more credibility as a musician because of her masculine energy and the fact that she did not project a more stereotypically female image (like Stevie). Would Christine be taken as seriously if she wore ballet leotards, chiffon, scarves and capes on stage? I think it would be impossible to answer this question, but I do think gender roles in rock music is a real issue.

You know, I've kidded you about man-hands Christine comments before, but the truth is, I honestly don't understand this perception that Christine is not feminine. She seems completely feminine to me. I would see your point if she was KT Oslin or Ellen Degeneres, but she isn't. Did she wear ballet leotards? No, but I don't see that as a mark of femininity anyway. If we're talking attire, I think more women dress like Christine than Stevie.

My mother is visiting from Michigan and I woke up and she had her coffee sitting on a Christine coaster I bought from Etsy, a set of coasters made from Christine's solo album. The idea of a coffee ring on one of them kind of freaked me out. She didn't know it was just for decoration. But anyway, that image from the coaster of Christine, before her piano, red dress flowing in the breeze . . . it said nothing but woman to me. I think she is accepted as being as talented a musician as any of the men were because she WAS as talented, not because she butched it up. And certainly the lyrical content of many of her songs is very pliant and passive on the surface, but no one says that about her musicianship.

Michele

[HejiraNYC]

You know, I've kidded you about man-hands Christine comments before, but the truth is, I honestly don't understand this perception that Christine is not feminine. She seems completely feminine to me. I would see your point if she was KT Oslin or Ellen Degeneres, but she isn't. Did she wear ballet leotards? No, but I don't see that as a mark of femininity anyway. If we're talking attire, I think more women dress like Christine than Stevie.

My mother is visiting from Michigan and I woke up and she had her coffee sitting on a Christine coaster I bought from Etsy, a set of coasters made from Christine's solo album. The idea of a coffee ring on one of them kind of freaked me out. She didn't know it was just for decoration. But anyway, that image from the coaster of Christine, before her piano, red dress flowing in the breeze . . . it said nothing but woman to me. I think she is accepted as being as talented a musician as any of the men were because she WAS as talented, not because she butched it up. And certainly the lyrical content of many of her songs is very pliant and passive on the surface, but no one says that about her musicianship.

Michele

Oh, I agree with you that Christine has her own brand of (subtle) femininity. But the key distinctions between she and Stevie are that Stevie did not play a stereotypically masculine role in the band and Christine was not sexualized/objectified the way Stevie was. For all intents and purposes, Christine was just "one of the guys." It had nothing to do with her physical appearance (okay, well maybe just a smidge :p) and everything to do with her perception. If she twirled and danced in a graceful, feminine way, would that have detracted from her image as a serious musician? :shrug:

[michelej1]

Oh, I agree with you that Christine has her own brand of (subtle) femininity. But the key distinctions between she and Stevie are that Stevie did not play a stereotypically masculine role in the band and Christine was not sexualized/objectified the way Stevie was. For all intents and purposes, Christine was just "one of the guys." It had nothing to do with her physical appearance (okay, well maybe just a smidge :p) and everything to do with her perception. If she twirled and danced in a graceful, feminine way, would that have detracted from her image as a serious musician? :shrug:

Well, you're right, we can't know. But I just think of the Dixie Chicks, Martie and Emily seem to be stronger musicians than Natalie to me. Martie and Emily don't twirl, but they do stand up there center stage in a graceful and feminine way and I think they are considered strong musicians and, actually, I think they're more what people perceive of as traditionally feminine than Natalie is.

As for the perception of Stevie, maybe it has to do with HER and not her sex. She admits she's neither a good guitar player or piano player. Maybe that's why people discount her as a musician and not because of her gender.

She has said, "I write my songs, but Lindsey puts the magic in, and there's no way... well, I could pay him ten percent. I could walk up to him and thank him. If I were to play you a song the way I wrote it and gave it to them, and then play you the way it is on the album, you would see what Lindsey did."

Or like she told Courtney Love:

I would sit down and play him Gold Dust Woman on the guitar, my simple little version, and two days later it would be recorded, and it would be recorded really well. He could take my songs and do what I would do if I had his musical talent. When he wasn’t angry with me, that is. That’s why there’s seven or eight great songs, and there’s 50 more where he wasn’t happy with me and didn’t help me.

Stevie's comments like that over the years have got to have as much to do with her being discounted as a musician as the fact that she's a female do. I mean when Ken said that none of the Macsters could read music, we all jumped in and said Christine could, because we knew her history. We know that she was classically trained and we bring that kind of background to the table when we come to conclusions about these people. The background we have for Stevie is much different than Christine's and I don't think it's because Christine wasn't swirling.

Michele

[elle]

This thread has been much fun to read. Everyone's opinions have been very entertaining. I'm so glad Stevie just did 2 different Q&A sessions because it made The Ledge come alive again and frankly my friends, that's a good thing.
I love you all,
Viv

i was just saying that to somebody - lots of activity:nod:

nice to see mostly civilized discussions too, and people just having fun! :thumbsup:

[WildHearted]

i was just saying that to somebody - lots of activity:nod:

nice to see mostly civilized discussions too, and people just having fun! :thumbsup:

I agree! It's nice to actually have something to disagree about! :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

^Well, no worries. They don't want Stevie recording with Lindsey anyway... :distress:

Haha!! I felt like that one was just for me. :xoxo:

[jbrownsjr]

I think Stevie looks fantastic. Better than she has in recent years. I thought she was pretty complimentary to LB. She has a ton of respect for his talent.

Here's what I see, I see someone with a long long history feeling comfortable chatting about the things she loves and hates about an amazing partnership that still exists.

If the lyric thing still sticks in her craw.. well then go ahead and keep venting. I love the hint of her saying, "Hey, I'm legendary and dammit I'll write the way I want!" Ok maybe more than a hint. I do think if you sell millions of records and have many hits, you can in fact write in whatever tense you want. At the end of the day, you want people to listen and buy and perform for.

I'm enjoying Stevie a lot lately and don't think she was trying to be intentionally rude.

[jbrownsjr]

i was just saying that to somebody - lots of activity:nod:

nice to see mostly civilized discussions too, and people just having fun! :thumbsup:
You just like all the attention... lol:nod:

[elle]

You just like all the attention... lol:nod:

but of course! :laugh:

i did try to start some discussion in CM forum too, btw. :nod:


i freely admit that i'm biased and perhaps overly defensive when it comes to LB. (and i'm not alone!) similarly, i know there are many SN diehards who realize they are the same re their queen of chiffon, whether they want to admit it or not. :p

re knowing LB - i don't remember anybody in this thread stating they know LB. personally, i definitely can't say that i know him - all together i talked to him maybe about an hour.

although, it can be debatable whether your ex, with whom you had on/off, love/hate relationship for 45 years, would be the most objective person to talk about you either.

what people were stating were some facts, such as:


i saw / got to meet LB numerous times
he smiles a lot and had some huge laughs during those times
SN said in her q&a that LB used to smile and laugh before joining FM, but not much since, and that he is always very serious
she stated as her / DS's big achievement that they managed to make LB smile and laugh.

on the basis of such facts, people who met him, saw him smile often and didn't have much difficulty in making him laugh out loud, were puzzled as to why is making LB smile such big achievement, and why is he being portrayed as an always overly serious person.

[WildHearted]

but of course! :laugh:

i did try to start some discussion in CM forum too, btw. :nod:


i freely admit that i'm biased and perhaps overly defensive when it comes to LB. (and i'm not alone!) similarly, i know there are many SN diehards who realize they are the same re their queen of chiffon, whether they want to admit it or not. :p

re knowing LB - i don't remember anybody in this thread stating they know LB. personally, i definitely can't say that i know him - all together i talked to him maybe about an hour.

although, it can be debatable whether your ex, with whom you had on/off, love/hate relationship for 45 years, would be the most objective person to talk about you either.

what people were stating were some facts, such as:


i saw / got to meet LB numerous times
he smiles a lot and had some huge laughs during those times
SN said in her q&a that LB used to smile and laugh before joining FM, but not much since, and that he is always very serious
she stated as her / DS's big achievement that they managed to make LB smile and laugh.

on the basis of such facts, people who met him, saw him smile often and didn't have much difficulty in making him laugh out loud, were puzzled as to why is making LB smile such big achievement, and why is he being portrayed as an always overly serious person.

Maybe it's hard for her to make him smile. Or to make him smile in a work situation.

Besides, the interviewer fed her that line. She never said anything about him smiling until he goes, "He seems so serious. It's just like, Lindsey, smile!" (or something of that nature) and she just responded "And we got him to smile!" (or something like that.)

[elle]

Maybe it's hard for her to make him smile. Or to make him smile in a work situation.

maybe.

Besides, the interviewer fed her that line.
well, she doesn't have to agree with the interviewer if she has a different opinion, does she? :laugh:


you know, another thing that surprised me about Lindsey -
from everything i've heard i expected a diva-like guy who doesn't want to hear anything but high praise and adoration.
but the man can actually take criticism, suggestions, and teasing without any problems, and give you some honest answers.

[CADreaming]

SN said in her q&a that LB used to smile and laugh before joining FM, but not much since, and that he is always very serious


she stated as her / DS's big achievement that they managed to make LB smile and laugh.



Just to clarify, Stevie wasn't inferring FM had anything to do with Lindsey not smiling. She was explaining why she "went out" with him - that he had a beautiful smile and was a lot of fun -- "in the beginning" and she didn't say that he was "always very serious" or that he didn't smile "much since".

I agree with Wildhearted on the second point - the interviewer fed her the line about "come on smile, Lindsey" and Stevie in her nervousness was using it as a punchline, "and we did get him to smile". It was a joke. I think Lindsey is a very funny guy and she would know better than any of us. A lot of that was just her getting on the interviewer train. You could tell she agreed with almost everything he said. I think she was just being polite -- and she was nervous -- she fidgeted a lot.

[elle]

Jthe interviewer fed her the line about "come on smile, Lindsey" and Stevie in her nervousness was using it as a punchline, "and we did get him to smile". It was a joke. I think Lindsey is a very funny guy and she would know better than any of us. A lot of that was just her getting on the interviewer train. You could tell she agreed with almost everything he said. I think she was just being polite -- and she was nervous -- she fidgeted a lot.

:laugh: oh, that poor helpless girl. :p

the interviewer looked cute. maybe that's why she wanted to agree with him on "almost everything"? ;)

[CADreaming]

^:laugh: remember when I said Lindsey was her straight man? (But, he was cute!)

[MikeInNV]

although, it can be debatable whether your ex, with whom you had on/off, love/hate relationship for 45 years, would be the most objective person to talk about you either.

She's probably not the most objective, but she knows him in a way that none of us do. All of us show different parts of ourselves to different people in our lives. Obviously Lindsey is not going to relate to a fan backstage the same way he relates to Stevie, but that doesn't mean he's not being his real self to either one of them. Stevie has a unique worldview for sure, but she's got to have some insights on a man she has known for almost 50 years now.

[jbrownsjr]

I don't really think she was trying to say he doesn't smile. :shrug:

[michelej1]

Certainly, there have been times when Stevie has thought Lindsey was too serious and she has said so. The interviewer probably got the impression that Lindsey was "sooo" serious from something he read Stevie say in the first place, rather than from his own head. Which came first? Chicken or the egg or Stevie? In past interviews, Stevie has said that she thought Lindsey didn't want to have any fun. She wanted Lindsey to play more and he thought she played too much.

Of course, those are older comments. Her opinion of Lindsey's seriousness may have changed since then. But those opinions probably informed the interviewer.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

He is serious!

I would have loved to see Stevie's face the first time she heard Bwana!! lol

[michelej1]

I would have loved to see Stevie's face the first time she heard Bwana!! lol

I would have loved to see Lindsey's face the first time he heard Jane.

I bet he was smiling then.

Michele

[CADreaming]

And Lindsey has agreed he is pretty serious in the studio.

[crylove77]

Ok, I rarely post here, but this:
I would have loved to see Lindsey's face the first time he heard Jane.

I bet he was smiling then.

Michele

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[jbrownsjr]

I would have loved to see Lindsey's face the first time he heard Jane.

I bet he was smiling then.

Michele

Haha!! I love me some Michele in the fall. That was awesome!

[jbrownsjr]

And Lindsey has agreed he is pretty serious in the studio.

I heard different, Ken said Lindsey was so funny he and Carol got really choked up quite often.

[elle]

Lindsey takes his work seriously :nod::D

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bpCfgRqaluE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[elle]

and of course, why not re-watch this since people love to discuss it, and the whole thing is just hilarious on so many levels:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OsjDBAPWQO4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

comment from 2009:
I love that clip for the fact that Lindsey brought up a big point about my problem with Stevie's lyrics; one of her weak points as a songwriter -- her tenses are all over the place, rendering many of her lyrics confusing if not nearly incomprehensible. And Stevie bringing up Bob Dylan as her defense!!?? She's so ridiculous sometimes.

With her solo career I think she surrounds herself with "yes men"; people who won't challenge her too much, and sometimes her work has suffered for it.

and this comment from IYD doc review goes perfectly with Lindsey's face when she says it in DR doc (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/your-dreams-stevie-nicks-film-377657):
"Though unconvinced viewers may snort when Nicks compares herself to Bob Dylan or treats lyrics scribbled on hotel stationery like relics of great import..."

[Nico]

and of course, why not re-watch this since people love to discuss it, and the whole thing is just hilarious on so many levels:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OsjDBAPWQO4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



The only thing that stands out for me upon re-watching this video is how freaking hot Lindsey looks. Click. Re-watch.

[CADreaming]

I heard different, Ken said Lindsey was so funny he and Carol got really choked up quite often.

Did you just drag CAH into this?! Lol!!

[elle]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OsjDBAPWQO4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The only thing that stands out for me upon re-watching this video is how freaking hot Lindsey looks. Click. Re-watch.

i know. some aesthetically pleasing stuff in that vid! :nod: :cool:

[sodascouts]

As someone who was there and saw everything in its context as it was happening, I can say that Stevie did seem to notice how some people were getting a kick out of her Lindsey-dissing and it did encourage her to do more than she perhaps would have otherwise. The interviewer also encouraged her to do it. Plus, she seemed to think a very viable way to compliment Dave was to talk about how much better it was to work with him than Lindsey. Still, her willingness to take that bait had me wondering if she and Lindsey had had some kind of recent fight.

I think it's worth noting, though, that it didn't dominate the entirety of the talk. Overall, the Q&A was enjoyable and informative. The Lindsey-dissing stuck in my craw and was the only unpleasant part, which is why I think it's getting focused on, but it wasn't like she spent the whole time trash-talking him. Indeed, as I said in the Stevie thread, she said a couple of nice things about him, too.

We all know she truly loves and respects him, despite the occasional spats. She said in the Q&A that a lot of their difficulties come from the fact that they still had a lot of baggage and they're not truly over each other. That's actually kind of a tribute to Lindsey, in a way.

However, I must say that as far as the re-play of the "Thrown Down" segment in her new documentary, not only do I think it's unnecessary, I think it detracts from the documentary. I was sitting in my theater seat cringing, and actually said out loud, "Oh no, not the Bob Dylan bit again!" I said this as a person who had dropped hundreds of dollars to travel to New York in order to see Stevie's Q&A and documentary, and someone who adores Stevie.

People who aren't hardcore fans are going to be rolling their eyes at her. She doesn't get that it makes her look pretentious and hyper-sensitive to everyone but the fans who love her and understand where she's coming from. She seriously thinks Lindsey was WAY out of line saying that, and seems to have no idea that a lot of other people are going "Um, well, Stevie, maybe it's not so horrific to have gently phrased constructive criticism." I have to wonder why Dave didn't suggest it be omitted. Maybe he just relishes the fact that she uses the Lindsey-dissing to lavish praise upon him about how much better he is to work with.

Again, though, that was just a small part of the documentary. Overall, it had a lot of insights and fascinating information about the songwriting process.

[shackin'up]

i know. some aesthetically pleasing stuff in that vid! :nod: :cool:

Clearly, she can't handle that. HAhahaha...

[elle]

As someone who was there and saw everything in its context as it was happening, I can say that Stevie did seem to notice how some people were getting a kick out of her Lindsey-dissing and it did encourage her to do more than she perhaps would have otherwise. The interviewer also encouraged her to do it. Plus, she seemed to think a very viable way to compliment Dave was to talk about how much better it was to work with him than Lindsey. Still, her willingness to take that bait had me wondering if she and Lindsey had had some kind of recent fight.

I think it's worth noting, though, that it didn't dominate the entirety of the talk. Overall, the Q&A was enjoyable and informative. The Lindsey-dissing stuck in my craw and was the only unpleasant part, which is why I think it's getting focused on, but it wasn't like she spent the whole time trash-talking him. Indeed, as I said in the Stevie thread, she said a couple of nice things about him, too.

We all know she truly loves and respects him, despite the occasional spats. She said in the Q&A that a lot of their difficulties come from the fact that they still had a lot of baggage and they're not truly over each other. That's actually kind of a tribute to Lindsey, in a way.

However, I must say that as far as the re-play of the "Thrown Down" segment in her new documentary, not only do I think it's unnecessary, I think it detracts from the documentary. I was sitting in my theater seat cringing, and actually said out loud, "Oh no, not the Bob Dylan bit again!" I said this as a person who had dropped hundreds of dollars to travel to New York in order to see Stevie's Q&A and documentary, and someone who adores Stevie.

People who aren't hardcore fans are going to be rolling their eyes at her. She doesn't get that it makes her look pretentious and hyper-sensitive to everyone but the fans who love her and understand where she's coming from. She seriously thinks Lindsey was WAY out of line saying that, and seems to have no idea that a lot of other people are going "Um, well, Stevie, maybe it's not so horrific to have gently phrased constructive criticism." I have to wonder why Dave didn't suggest it be omitted. Maybe he just relishes the fact that she uses the Lindsey-dissing to lavish praise upon him about how much better he is to work with.

Again, though, that was just a small part of the documentary. Overall, it had a lot of insights and fascinating information about the songwriting process.

wonder what would Bob Dylan think about SN comparing herself to him as a lyricist? ;)

either way, if anyone who's not a diehard SN fan watches that movie, at least they get to experience some LB hotness in one of his sexiest phases :p:thumbsup:

[CADreaming]

wonder what would Bob Dylan think about SN comparing herself to him as a lyricist? ;)

either way, if anyone who's not a diehard SN fan watches that movie, at least they get to experience some LB hotness in one of his sexiest phases :p:thumbsup:

I've often wondered what Bob Dylan would think about that too. :D

[KindOfWoman90]

wonder what would Bob Dylan think about SN comparing herself to him as a lyricist? ;)

either way, if anyone who's not a diehard SN fan watches that movie, at least they get to experience some LB hotness in one of his sexiest phases :p:thumbsup:

I mean, in the end that's all that really matters, right? :p :nod:

I feel like I've watched that clip from DR at least a dozen times, and I still don't see how his comment could be taken as something so offensive... The man approaches the whole subject as if he's walking on eggshells! lol

[michelej1]

I'll always remember an interview Cher did with Katie Couric. Katie was saying that Sonny couldn't sing and Cher gave her this death stare -- not that Cher thought Sonny could sing, she just really didn't stand for anyone else knocking Sonny, besides herself -- and Katie explained herself and said, "Sonny has this really high, nasal voice."

Cher: "So does Bob Dylan."

Michele

[redtulip]

I mean, in the end that's all that really matters, right? :p :nod:

I feel like I've watched that clip from DR at least a dozen times, and I still don't see how his comment could be taken as something so offensive... The man approaches the whole subject as if he's walking on eggshells! lol

I completely agree. I think he did it in a very kind and constructive way and he was right. And he wasn't knocking her songwriting, he was talking about basic writing rules that make the writing clearer and easier to understand.

[vivfox]

I feel like I've watched that clip from DR at least a dozen times, and I still don't see how his comment could be taken as something so offensive... The man approaches the whole subject as if he's walking on eggshells! lol


I once read that we all must walk on eggshells when dealing with the Gemini personality.

[sodascouts]

wonder what would Bob Dylan think about SN comparing herself to him as a lyricist? ;)


I would rather listen to a Stevie Nicks song than a Bob Dylan song any day of the week. When I do listen to Dylan it's covers because I can't stand his voice. He has a gift with lyrics, yes, but so does she.

It's just I hate the way she acts like Lindsey should never dare to presume to suggest anything to her because she's just THAT awesome. Like I said, it makes me cringe. I love her so much and I hate to see her come off like that.

[elle]

I would rather listen to a Stevie Nicks song than a Bob Dylan song any day of the week. When I do listen to Dylan it's covers because I can't stand his voice. He has a gift with lyrics, yes, but so does she.

It's just I hate the way she acts like Lindsey should never dare to presume to suggest anything to her because she's just THAT awesome. Like I said, it makes me cringe. I love her so much and I hate to see her come off like that.

out of respect for people here i won't comment what i think of BD or SN as lyricists... and it doesn't really matter anyway, it's just my opinion.

Dylan does have annoying voice and it's getting worse all the time, but for some reason it doesn't bother me too much - it's actually endearing to me. unlike LB's young voice which i can't stand unless he was singing a really fast song like SHN or GYOW.

[sodascouts]

unlike LB's young voice which i can't stand unless he was singing a really fast song like SHN or GYOW.

Wow, really? I think his voice on old performances like this is THE SEX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJyzijG0I0k

[elle]

Wow, really? I think his voice on old performances like this is THE SEX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJyzijG0I0k

yeah... still no. however much i love any live version of ISA, earlier versions like this i love just b/c of guitar parts. later day live versions, voice is appropriate too.:nod:

[PenguinHead]

Sometimes I wish the Lindsey vs. Stevie thing didn't always feel like Romney vs. Obama. :D

She was relating a very positive experience they had in the studio. Now, did she do it with extra drama and through Stevie-colored glasses? Of course she did. But the take-away is that even though they've had many bad times in the studio, this was just the opposite. And I think it made them both happy to know that all these years later, they can still click when they work together.

As far as people not being loving to him, I'm pretty sure the context was in the studio, where people like FM (including Stevie), Ken Caillat, etc. haven't always had the patience to indulge him. I hardly think she was implying he had no fans or that his family didn't love him. :rolleyes:

Right on with everything you said. We all know that Lindsey is a pretty intense guy. Stevie, equally intense and dark in her own way, is just relating this through her own albeit biased personal experience. Let's face it, she is a genuine drama queen. And she's often very blunt with her comments, however misguided they may be.

What made me cringe was her speculation that she and Lindsey might have married and had children, and domestic bliss would occur. That is such a bull**** fairytale. Why on earth does she say such crap? It really shows lack of respect and insensitivity for the family that he has now. It's a stable life that Stevie and Lindsey would never have had, had they gone down that road. It would have become a train wreck.

I wish she would just drop that narrative. Lindsey has moved on a long time ago, but clearly Stevie hasn't.

[elle]

Right on with everything you said. We all know that Lindsey is a pretty intense guy. Stevie, equally intense and dark in her own way, is just relating this through her own albeit biased personal experience. Let's face it, she is a genuine drama queen. And she's often very blunt with her comments, however misguided they may be.

What made me cringe was her speculation that she and Lindsey might have married and had children, and domestic bliss would occur. That is such a bull**** fairytale. Why on earth does she say such crap? It really shows lack of respect and insensitivity for the family that he has now. It's a stable life that Stevie and Lindsey would never have had, had they gone down that road. It would have become a train wreck.

I wish she would just drop that narrative. Lindsey has moved on a long time ago, but clearly Stevie hasn't.

i like the way you explained this. i can also see what you stated in the last sentence, if true, as easily being a big problem for her in working / touring with FM - you wouldn't want to go back in the situation that would constantly remind you of what you lost / don't have. that wouldn't be that big of a problem if you moved on.

[Sleepless-Child]

i like the way you explained this. i can also see what you stated in the last sentence, if true, as easily being a big problem for her in working / touring with FM - you wouldn't want to go back in the situation that would constantly remind you of what you lost / don't have. that wouldn't be that big of a problem if you moved on.

And now i know that "Dreams" is not about Lindsey but Stevie herself :).

[elle]

And now i know that "Dreams" is not about Lindsey but Stevie herself :).

lol. seriously there was no pun intended ;)

[Sleepless-Child]

lol. seriously there was no pun intended ;)

Always better when not intended :).

I'm shocked at how much i don't have anything to say about this whole thing.

[WildHearted]

And now i know that "Dreams" is not about Lindsey but Stevie herself :).

She always did say that SHE was the one who 'wanted her freedom,' not him.

[Regina]

They have such a bizarre relationship. And, you can't really say that Lindsey has totally cut the cord of their relationship when a lot of his current songs still seem to be harkening back to Stevie (open, of course, to personal interpretation). Of course, he is also smart enough to know what makes money and...singing about the wife and kids at soccer practice doesn't cut it.

But, I think dreams (not the song) and reality have clashed in their relationship all their lives.

I think that Stevie wouldn't really have cared all that much about the lyric/English lesson conversation if she hadn't absolutely spelled out--in no uncertain terms--that the song was about him just seconds before. And, I'm sure he knew this but she DID come right out and say it, in case there was any doubt. And those words are pretty personal. In the romantic world that Stevie probably lives in, a grammar lesson would not be in order at that particular moment. Doesn't matter what role Lindsey has in the band, on the record, in fixing her songs...that was probably the wrong moment to bring it up.

But, they say and do inappropriate stuff all the time. I must be getting used to it because this didn't even begin to annoy me.

[Sleepless-Child]

She always did say that SHE was the one who 'wanted her freedom,' not him.

oh, sorry, i didn't know that. And it's my favorite song.

They have such a bizarre relationship. And, you can't really say that Lindsey has totally cut the cord of their relationship when a lot of his current songs still seem to be harkening back to Stevie (open, of course, to personal interpretation). Of course, he is also smart enough to know what makes money and...singing about the wife and kids at soccer practice doesn't cut it.

But, I think dreams (not the song) and reality have clashed in their relationship all their lives.

I think that Stevie wouldn't really have cared all that much about the lyric/English lesson conversation if she hadn't absolutely spelled out--in no uncertain terms--that the song was about him just seconds before. And, I'm sure he knew this but she DID come right out and say it, in case there was any doubt. And those words are pretty personal. In the romantic world that Stevie probably lives in, a grammar lesson would not be in order at that particular moment. Doesn't matter what role Lindsey has in the band, on the record, in fixing her songs...that was probably the wrong moment to bring it up.

But, they say and do inappropriate stuff all the time. I must be getting used to it because this didn't even begin to annoy me.


I agree with all of this, but i wonder about his current songs...i mean, for sure, there's Stevie, but he seems to be writing about his past in general lately (Seeds we sow), and Stevie is for sure a part of that picture, but...i just think he has moved on.
I was especially surprised when i heard that "In our own time" is about his wife...when i first listened to that song it screamed Stevie to me.
So now i don't really know anymore.

[michelej1]

Doesn't matter what role Lindsey has in the band, on the record, in fixing her songs...that was probably the wrong moment to bring it up.


And his role in the band was never grammar master anyway. Presumably, she knows as much about the English language as he does. Since she, as she will tell you, went farther in school than he did, maybe she even knows more about grammar (although I'm pretty sure her college course grades were rotten, so...) What she doesn't know is music and that's where he should keep his nose.

It's not as if his own lyrics are a model in sentence structure anyway.

Whether what he said was right or not, I think he said it to annoy her. He didn't just meet the woman. He knows she's subject to extremes. I think he takes occasional pleasure in saying things to annoy not only her, but John too. But the "he/you/ It was I" remark was on the same level of annoyance as your little brother letting his foot stray over onto your side of the car seat. He wasn't trying to crush her ego, undermine her self-esteem, exercise his own dominance or hurt her everything.

He said it. She responded in a way she thought was triumphant. It entertained people in DR and that should have been the end of the story. If the last decade hasn't given her anything new to talk about, life must really be boring. If he hasn't insulted her in a noteworthy manner since then, I'm rather disappoinited.

Michele

[KindOfWoman90]

oh, sorry, i didn't know that. And it's my favorite song.




I agree with all of this, but i wonder about his current songs...i mean, for sure, there's Stevie, but he seems to be writing about his past in general lately (Seeds we sow), and Stevie is for sure a part of that picture, but...i just think he has moved on.
I was especially surprised when i heard that "In our own time" is about his wife...when i first listened to that song it screamed Stevie to me.
So now i don't really know anymore.

Was this in an interview? I've never heard that In Our Own Time was about his wife before...

[WildHearted]

If he hasn't insulted her in a noteworthy manner since then, I'm rather disappointed.

Michele

:lol:

Lindsey must have really lost his flare.

Was this in an interview? I've never heard that In Our Own Time was about his wife before...

Yes, he did say that in some sort of a public statement (which I would presume to be an interview). I can't recall where/when/why at the moment.

[elle]

:lol:

Lindsey must have really lost his flare.



Yes, he did say that in some sort of a public statement (which I would presume to be an interview). I can't recall where/when/why at the moment.

not 100% sure, but i think it might be in one of those SWS previews that he has on his website.

[CADreaming]

IOOT? I thought it was just WSCD.:shrug:

[KindOfWoman90]

not 100% sure, but i think it might be in one of those SWS previews that he has on his website.

Ah, okay - thanks :)

[WildHearted]

IOOT? I thought it was just WSCD.:shrug:

Oddly enough, he said it about IOOT as well. Something about how it took her a while to trust him.

[KindOfWoman90]

Oddly enough, he said it about IOOT as well. Something about how it took her a while to trust him.

Hm yeah I just watched the preview of each song on his site and he only said that about WSCD, not IOOT. Do you recall where you heard him say this?

[WildHearted]

Hm yeah I just watched the preview of each song on his site and he only said that about WSCD, not IOOT. Do you recall where you heard him say this?

I believe what I actually was remembering was a different article, but he also says that it's about her here: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=48629&highlight=spinner+interview

[KindOfWoman90]

I believe what I actually was remembering was a different article, but he also says that it's about her here: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=48629&highlight=spinner+interview

Thanks! :)