Behind the Mask reviews

[Villavic]

Can't remember if this was discussed, but I found interesting this Amazon customers reviews
Amazon - Behind the Mask (http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Mask-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B000002LKI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1347044359&sr=1-1&keywords=behind+the+mask+fleetwood+mac)

"Tango in the night" was inconsistent and weird, showing that Lindsey's influence was probably becoming too big.

I'm sorry but I just do not agree with the general consensus that Lindsey Buckingham was this brilliant producer. The more control he took over the production, the more bland the albums got.

For the most part, this is much better than most of the generic 80s/90s pop rock - hard to tell it is Fleetwood Mac but has several good songs --

Lindsey's strength (at least at the time) did not lie in his songwriting ability ("Go Your Own Way" and his cuts from Tango In the Night are obvious exceptions). His strength was in his production capabilities. This version of Fleetwood Mac was not better or worse, it was just different.

I don't agree with all reviews but I do think Lindsey was better producer than writer. And Tango is a very good album. IMHO. Anyway my point is that in spite of several good reviews, I can't understand why BTM was not a success in America.

[AncientQueen]

I don't think that Tango is a good album, to this day I find it disapointing and the least interesting FM album made after 1972. I liked Time better, so there you know how much I liked Tango.

Lindsey is a studio wizzard, but left to his own decisions, he goes off into nowhere. He overproduced Tango and SYW excessivly. And his ideas repeat themselves, it get's boring. Tango is the most dated sounding FM album, even SYW sounds already dated, because he used the same 80s sound he used back in 87.

Basically, Lindsey ruined/wasted at least 2 albums for me. His songwriting qualities? Nah, he had his moments, but overall, he cannot find a Hook if his life depends on it.

I loved BTM, real people making real music, cut down on the effects and all the gimmicks. It was a major step in a more down-to-earth direction.

Of course JIMHO.

[jbrownsjr]

I don't think that Tango is a good album, to this day I find it disapointing and the least interesting FM album made after 1972. I liked Time better, so there you know how much I liked Tango.

Lindsey is a studio wizzard, but left to his own decisions, he goes off into nowhere. He overproduced Tango and SYW excessivly. And his ideas repeat themselves, it get's boring. Tango is the most dated sounding FM album, even SYW sounds already dated, because he used the same 80s sound he used back in 87.

Basically, Lindsey ruined/wasted at least 2 albums for me. His songwriting qualities? Nah, he had his moments, but overall, he cannot find a Hook if his life depends on it.

I loved BTM, real people making real music, cut down on the effects and all the gimmicks. It was a major step in a more down-to-earth direction.

Of course JIMHO.

I think both Christine and Lindsey repeated their ideas a lot. When I heard songs like BTM (title track) and Sooner or Later from Christine I was happy to hear her chart into new territory. Skies the Limit is another good example, although I hate the jingling timbre of the keyboards. Trolly trains and her voice not my cup of tea.

[AncientQueen]

Skies the Limit is another good example, although I hate the jingling timbre of the keyboards. Trolly trains and her voice not my cup of tea.
I hate Skies the Limit for the exact same reason :).

[seekerj]

I hate Skies the Limit for the exact same reason :).

Yeah, I not only dislike that about the song itself, but I don't even know what she means by "Skies The Limit". It's not "Sky's The Limit" or "Sky IS The Limit", but "Skies (plural) The Limit". What in the @#%^ does that even mean? Does she mean multiple skies?? More than one sky is the limit?? Then how many???? And what's being limited?? ugh

[Villavic]

Yeah, I not only dislike that about the song itself, but I don't even know what she means by "Skies The Limit". It's not "Sky's The Limit" or "Sky IS The Limit", but "Skies (plural) The Limit". What in the @#%^ does that even mean? Does she mean multiple skies?? More than one sky is the limit?? Then how many???? And what's being limited?? ugh

So what? Why does that annoy you? (I mean, it looks to me that you are very, very upset about it). :) Pop and rock songs are full of misunderstood or absurd phrases, like...

Just tell me that you want me! Tusk! Tusk!

Mac Arthur Park's is melting in the dark, all the sweet green icing flowing down
someone left the cake out in the rain, I don't think that I can take it...

I don't believe in Peter Pan, Frankenstein or Superman, All I wanna do is...
Bicycle bicycle bicycle .. I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle

No sex, no drugs, no wine, no women. No fun, no sin, no you, no wonder it's dark
Everyone around me is a total stranger. Everyone avoids me like a psyco ranger
Everyone...
That's why I'm turning Japanese I think I'm turning Japanese I really think so :confused:

and grammar mistakes, like...

She's got a ticket to ride. She's got a ticket to ride, But she don't care

So open up your morning light /And say a little prayer for I...

Lay Down Sally...

Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic. Everything she do just turns me on. :shrug:

As time goes by, you will get to know me a little more better...

You know that it would be untrue. You know that I would be a liar. If I was to say to you. Girl, we couldn’t get much higher

[Villavic]

I think both Christine and Lindsey repeated their ideas a lot.

I think Lindsey did far more than Christine, specially since Tusk.

Anyway, after decades of music, I think it's hard to ask a songwriter for originality and innovation.

[AncientQueen]

So what? Why does that annoy you? (I mean, it looks to me that you are very, very upset about it). :) Pop and rock songs are full of misunderstood or absurd phrases, like...


LOL! Great examples, but you didn't mention my 2 favorites
At first, the officially worst lyrics of all times, the epic "Rhythm is a dancer":
I'm serious as cancer when I say rhythm is a dancer

And my personal No. 1. From Scooter, this one is for the ages:
"I want you back for the rhythm-attack. Get down in full effect!
I want you back for the rhythm-attack coming down on the floor like a maniac.
I want you back so clean up the dish.
By the way, how much is the fish?!!
How much is the fish?!!
Yeeehaah!!
Sunshine in the air!!"

YEAHHHHHHHHHH! :]

[Neal]

I hate Skies the Limit for the exact same reason :).

I hate "Skies the Limit" because it sounds like a cheesy early 90's sitcom theme song (Full House, Family Matters). Every time I hear it I picture the band members spinning towards the camera, goofy smiles on their faces, names flashing at the bottom of the screen... :p

Hate's a strong word; I dislike the song.

[jbrownsjr]

Yeah, I not only dislike that about the song itself, but I don't even know what she means by "Skies The Limit". It's not "Sky's The Limit" or "Sky IS The Limit", but "Skies (plural) The Limit". What in the @#%^ does that even mean? Does she mean multiple skies?? More than one sky is the limit?? Then how many???? And what's being limited?? ugh

YES!! That drives me nuts too!

[Chris_Lover]

I must be the only one here who loves Skies the limits (and when she sings it, she says "The skyyyyy's the limit now...") :D And also one of the few who love the Tango in the night album, except for the song "Family man". But I'm a 80s girl... :P

PS: I agrre with AncientQueen on the fact that "Lindsey is a studio wizzard, but left to his own decisions, he goes off into nowhere". He's really excessive.

[mottabam]

I must be the only one here who loves Skies the limits (and when she sings it, she says "The skyyyyy's the limit now...") :D And also one of the few who love the Tango in the night album, except for the song "Family man".
No, Actually I agree with everything you said.
When BTM was released I listened to it constantly. Definetly a different Mac sound but kinda uplifting and fun. The tour was great also, I especially liked "In the Back of My Mind" as the opener..

[vivfox]

I must be the only one here who loves Skies the limits (and when she sings it, she says "The skyyyyy's the limit now...") :D And also one of the few who love the Tango in the night album, except for the song "Family man". But I'm a 80s girl... :P

PS: I agrre with AncientQueen on the fact that "Lindsey is a studio wizzard, but left to his own decisions, he goes off into nowhere". He's really excessive.


I love Skies the Limit and I might be the only Ledgie who loves Family Man.

[Chris_Lover]

No, Actually I agree with everything you said.
When BTM was released I listened to it constantly. Definetly a different Mac sound but kinda uplifting and fun. The tour was great also, I especially liked "In the Back of My Mind" as the opener..

Thanks Mottabam! :D Yeah, BTM is really different from their previous records and I must admit that I prefer the old FM albums.. always old fashioned, I know! :rolleyes:

I love Skies the Limit and I might be the only Ledgie who loves Family Man.

Gimme five, bro! :thumbsup:
I'm not sure why I don't like Family man. It's not about the lyrics, I guess it's only because the music/effects scares me...too excessive :shrug:

[MacShadowsBall]

Count me as a Skies the Limit lover, but Save Me is better!

Really frustrating that this album wasnt a "hit" and didn't have a top 10 hit single. :distress:

[Chris_Lover]

Count me as a Skies the Limit lover, but Save Me is better!

I love SM too, in fact these are the only 2 songs that I like of that album :(

[AncientQueen]

I liked:
In The Back Of My Mind
Do You Know
Save Me
Behind The Mask
Stand On The Rock
Freedom

My favorites are Do You Know, Save Me and Freedom. This is also one of the few FM albums I can hear from start to finsih, there is no really bad track on it. After TITN it was so great to hear an album made by people who actually LIKE their work. Made by humans for humans, I cannot explain it better. Tango was such a shock to me, I hated the production, the elevator songs (Mystified is sooo bad, I kinda never recovered from that one) and the throwaway lyrics, worst on Family Man, but all over the album. To me, Tango came across with a clear message: "They buy it anyway". On BTM they weren't so sure anymore and that was a good thing. Imho.

[Chris_Lover]

Tango was such a shock to me, I hated the production, the elevator songs (Mystified is sooo bad, I kinda never recovered from that one)

I understand that I really must have strange/old fashioned tastes...or maybe I'm just a 70s-80s fanatic, and this explains why :D Honestly, at first Mystified shocked me too, but with the time I started liking it veeery much. It's really relaxing and sweet and I love that kind of "oriental style" sounds that sometime you can find in FM songs. It's a bit like a lullaby.
Mystified, Brown eyes and Warm ways, for example, are that kind of songs that I love to listen with my eyes closed, specially when I'm in bed...so soothing :o
But really, I know that my tastes can be quite incomprehensible at times..

[TrueFaith77]

Between Gypsy and No Limits/Zero, the best produced Mac song is "Family Man."

[AncientQueen]

Between Gypsy and No Limits/Zero, the best produced Mac song is "Family Man."
I agree that Family Man was a strong production and the remixes were really special - but I was talking about the lyrics.

[AncientQueen]

Mystified, Brown eyes and Warm ways, for example, are that kind of songs that I love to listen with my eyes closed, specially when I'm in bed...so soothing :o
But really, I know that my tastes can be quite incomprehensible at times..
This songs I find technically beautiful and I love Christine, but they bore me to tears, I avoid them if possible. That does not mean that I don't appreciate the melodies or the lyrics, It's just that I can't with slow songs in general.

[PenguinHead]

Yeah, I not only dislike that about the song itself, but I don't even know what she means by "Skies The Limit". It's not "Sky's The Limit" or "Sky IS The Limit", but "Skies (plural) The Limit". What in the @#%^ does that even mean? Does she mean multiple skies?? More than one sky is the limit?? Then how many???? And what's being limited?? ugh

Have you ever heard of poetic license? I think you are over-thinking it. Not all art is supposed to make perfect sense. The way the song was titled took a mundane phrase and made it interesting.

[PolishStevieFan]

"Behind The Mask" is one of those albums that seems to polarize FM's fanbase. I tend to put myself into a category of fans of this album. Definately it's not their best but for me it's far better than "Tango In The Night" which for the most part was plainly bad (at least Nick' output). For me best songs are:
"Sky's The Limit"
"Do You Know"
"Love Is Dangerous"
"Behind The Mask"
"Freedom"
"Hard Feelings"
"Affairs of The Heart"

[MacShadowsBall]

"Behind The Mask" is one of those albums that seems to polarize FM's fanbase.

I never really thought of it that way, but I guess you're right. I've noticed that there is a massive drop of fans between the Tango album and Behind the Mask. Like for the polls in my various contests, Tango polls got around 50 or so responses, while BTM get about half that.

Of course the major difference between the two albums is Lindsey. Although his songs weren't typically the "hits", it was his producing abilities that made the albums and key songs "hits". With him gone, Behind the Mask lost that thing I've heard called the "Fleetwood Mac sound". :cool:

[Christopher]

Count me as a Skies the Limit lover, but Save Me is better!

Really frustrating that this album wasnt a "hit" and didn't have a top 10 hit single. :distress:

Save Me SUCKED- such complete predictable & mediocre dreck that Christine sometimes wanders into effortlessly. Skies the Limit is a better constructed song suffering from a bad arrangement! I was embarrassed that FM released Save Me as the 1st single from BTM -- Save me from this song! I don't think I have played it more than 10 x's over the last 22 years:cool:! An edit of In the Back of Your Mind, Love Is Dangerous, Do You Know, or When It Comes to Love would have all been better choices. But ultimately BTM suffered a lack of concrete and solid singles.:shrug: I find it is amazing that BTM was successful as it was.

[mikephxaz]

Between Gypsy and No Limits/Zero, the best produced Mac song is "Family Man."

HUH:distress:

[mitzo]

To me BTM lost the signature Mac sound, and Christine's work ended up sounding banal. The boys really tried and there are some good things on the album, but I sure missed Lindsey's production on it. The only BTM song I ever really dig out to listen to is - wait for it - don't hate me - The Second Time. To me it is one of those beautiful Stevie weepers.

The new pieces on Greatest Hits were both, to me, gorgeous stuff - As Long As You Follow (perhaps my all-time favourite from Chris), and No Questions Asked. Delicious. A BTM follow-up disc with more of that would have been perfect.

As for TITN, well, Lindsey's song contributions were irritating overworked fragments except for Big Love. But the production, wow. The rest of the album is sheer perfection, to me, I even love to wallow in Mystified and When I See You Again.

[On Ice]

In retrospect, I'm not overly keen on the Rick and Billy line up (although both are very talented musicians), Behind the Mask had some element of creativity to it that makes it a good listen. The Mac took a few risks like In the Back of My Mind and to even open the shows with the tune shows that they were putting in an effort to turn the page and start a new era for the band. I really enjoy the title track and some of Stevie's vocals are really good especially on Love is Dangerous and Freedom. I wonder if this line up would have grown on me with a couple more albums, I guess we'll never know but perhaps they could've had a hit if a full album with As Long as You Follow as the lead single and that awesome duet between Rick and Stevie (Desiree) where Stevie turns in a vocal that rivals anything she's ever done.

[chiliD]

"The Second Time" is the ONLY song on BTM that I dislike...no, that's not strong enough...I abhor it! It, for me, is Fleetwood Mac's all time WORST song...even worse than Danny Kirwan's "When You Say".

Even "Lizard People" would've been a better choice to end the album.

Well, that said, Rick's "Stand On The Rock" isn't one of his better songs (even from the BTM sessions), but I still kind of like it.

I think the overall mix of the album is kind of muddy...none of the songs have a crisp sound to them. It's almost like listening to it with a couple of blankets thrown over the speakers.

Also, the running order just annoys the hell out of me. My iPod playlist (which also includes a couple of outtakes I felt SHOULD've been on the album...and a couple of songs that were recorded quite a bit earlier that should've been used for an entire album with the then new lineup instead of as "new" songs on a Greatest Hits album):

When The Sun Goes Down
Behind The Mask
Hard Feelings
Freedom
As Long As You Follow
Intuition
Save Me
Paper Doll
Got No Home
Affairs Of The Heart
When It Comes To Love
Skies The Limit
Love Is Dangerous
In The Back Of My Mind
Do You Know?
Lizard People

[SteveMacD]

Also, the running order just annoys the hell out of me. My iPod playlist (which also includes a couple of outtakes I felt SHOULD've been on the album...and a couple of songs that were recorded quite a bit earlier that should've been used for an entire album with the then new lineup instead of as "new" songs on a Greatest Hits album):

When The Sun Goes Down
Behind The Mask
Hard Feelings
Freedom
As Long As You Follow
Intuition
Save Me
Paper Doll
Got No Home
Affairs Of The Heart
When It Comes To Love
Skies The Limit
Love Is Dangerous
In The Back Of My Mind
Do You Know?
Lizard People

I do this too. It's also fun using songs from TOSOTM.

Right now, this is my playlist version (though it has changed over the years):

Skies The Limit
Victim Of Love
Intuition
Affairs Of The Heart
Do You Know
In The Back Of My Mind
Whole Lotta Trouble
Behind The Mask
When The Sun Goes Down
Save Me
Got No Home
Rooms On Fire
The Game Of Love

[chiliD]

I think Fleetwood Mac (that incarnation with Rick & Billy) would've done a WHOLE LOT better version of "Whole Lotta Trouble" than what got unleashed upon the world on TOSOTM. :thumbsup:

Yeah, "Rooms On Fire" would've been a good Fleetwood Mac song, too; but, I kind of like it the way it is. "The Second Time" is the only Stevie sung tune on BTM that I would ****-can. If they could've gotten "Paper Doll" ready in time, that would've been a great replacement.

[vivfox]

If they could've gotten "Paper Doll" ready in time, that would've been a great replacement.


I always wondered who were the performing musicians on Paper Doll?

[MikeInNV]

I always wondered who were the performing musicians on Paper Doll?

I thought I remembered people making a big deal over the fact that it had LB in addition to the whole BTM line-up on it.

[SteveMacD]

I think Fleetwood Mac (that incarnation with Rick & Billy) would've done a WHOLE LOT better version of "Whole Lotta Trouble" than what got unleashed upon the world on TOSOTM. :thumbsup:
Go figure. The ONE blues song she writes, and she does NOT use Mick, John, and Chris, who were British blues legends, or Rick, himself also an ex-Bluesbreaker. Really, you couldn't find more blues cred than what she had, and of course, she'd do the obvious and cut that as a solo artist...:rolleyes:

Yeah, "Rooms On Fire" would've been a good Fleetwood Mac song, too; but, I kind of like it the way it is. "The Second Time" is the only Stevie sung tune on BTM that I would ****-can. If they could've gotten "Paper Doll" ready in time, that would've been a great replacement.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of PD, either. I'm also not a fan of TOSOTM, save for a few songs. That whole era gave us a bunch of crap, and I can't listen to or watch any one release all the way through. "Rooms..." is a killer song, and I'd rather it had been released with the stronger FM material than solo, IMO. But, yeah, "The Second Time" is pretty terrible.

Honestly, though, I think they would've been best off if they had parted company with Stevie and Lindsey in 1980 and gotten together with Richard and Linda Thompson. The Thompsons needed a label and were in the process of splitting up, but were recording the brilliant "Shoot Out The Lights" album. Based on subsequent albums, it would have been much, MUCH better than what we got (especially by 1991, with RT's "Rumor and Sigh" and it's "1952 Vincent Black Lightning").

[mitzo]

But, but, but - The Second Time is classic Stevie ballad in the tradition of Landslide, Storms, Beautiful Child, and so on. Sorrowful, moving, dramatic, and honest. I cannot for the life of me get the hate for it.

As for Paper Doll, well, my first encounter had me thinking "OK, it's finally over." Takes Stevie at her lyrical and melodically most desperate and adds layers of total goofiness. I like it now, but only as an artifact of how close she and the Mac once came to total collapse.

[vivfox]

But, but, but - The Second Time is classic Stevie ballad in the tradition of Landslide, Storms, Beautiful Child, and so on. Sorrowful, moving, dramatic, and honest. I cannot for the life of me get the hate for it.

As for Paper Doll, well, my first encounter had me thinking "OK, it's finally over." Takes Stevie at her lyrical and melodically most desperate and adds layers of total goofiness. I like it now, but only as an artifact of how close she and the Mac once came to total collapse.


You don't have to make excuses for yourself because of what songs you enjoy. Chili and Steve have songs on their lists that would make me want to vomit or choke myself. I enjoyed The Second Time back in the day and when I first heard Paper Doll I was a bit baffled but after a few listens I "got" it. I respect their right to despise a track that I may love and vice versa.

[michelej1]

I loved Paper Doll, although I don't know if I would have liked it so much without the video, which definitely tugged at my heart strings.

I thought I remembered people making a big deal over the fact that it had LB in addition to the whole BTM line-up on it.

Yes, he was said to be on it. I wish the liner notes had said. Of course, they like to keep those things secret, just like whose playing what on SYW. The audience need never know.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Yes, he was said to be on it. I wish the liner notes had said. Of course, they like to keep those things secret, just like whose playing what on SYW. The audience need never know.
Same thing goes for the actual concerts. Some parts are taped, which helps it sound more like the record, but TOTALLY kills the live experience (at least for me). Not only do I not care if it sounds just like the record, I don't expect or want it to. I like knowing that what I'm hearing is what is actually being played AND is the ONLY thing being played.

I've been on a big Richard Thompson kick lately, and his solo acoustic versions of "Dimming Of The Day" and "Who Knows Where The Time Goes", and even "I Feel So Good" just destroy me. Screw sounding just like the record. If I wanted to hear the record, I would've stayed home.

[aleuzzi]

The only Stevie song I like from Tango to Street Angel is Blue Denim--and I like that song tremendously. But boy was she in a HUGE funk after Rock a Little. It showed in her appearance and in her music. Some people think her songs on Behind the Mask are really strong, but I can't listen to them. The only song on that album I can stand is Save Me and even that suffers from a generic arrangement (great vocal though).

Time is a much more rewarding album, IMO. Not perfect by a long shot, but loaded with strong material from Bekka and Billy. And a few fine Christine songs.

[mitzo]

The only Stevie song I like from Tango to Street Angel is Blue Denim--and I like that song tremendously. But boy was she in a HUGE funk after Rock a Little. It showed in her appearance and in her music. Some people think her songs on Behind the Mask are really strong, but I can't listen to them. The only song on that album I can stand is Save Me and even that suffers from a generic arrangement (great vocal though).

Time is a much more rewarding album, IMO. Not perfect by a long shot, but loaded with strong material from Bekka and Billy. And a few fine Christine songs.

Worst RAL - The Dance: Rooms on Fire, Rose Garden and Blue Denim. Honourable mention to 2 Kinds of Love and Affairs of the Heart.

[Villavic]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of PD, either.

I agree. I'm not fan of any of the "new" songs in 25 Years- The Chain. I guess it's probably that it wasn't a happy moment for any of the Rumours lineup songwriters, toward Fleetwood Mac. Wounds were still open, and probably there was anger and bitterness in the air. There can not be a good song within that environment.

The best novelty of the boxset was the alternate versions

[MikeInNV]

Wounds were still open, and probably there was anger and bitterness in the air. There can not be a good song within that environment.

It didn't seem to hold Rumours back.

[Villavic]

It didn't seem to hold Rumours back.

Oh yes, but that was another moment. By those years they were fresh, they wanted to write good songs, they wanted to be a great band. The wounds were within the couples. But they still enjoyed to be Fleetwood Mac, I think.

But in the early 90s, I think everybody was upset with each other, not just with the ex bf, gf, exhusband, etc. And tired of Fleetwood Mac.

As I read, Chris & Stevie were upset with Mick about what he said in his autobiography (1991). Did they want to help Mick again? I don't think so. Did they want to be part of Fleetwood Mac? Probably not. The girls just had left the BTM tour, according to Mick because they "felt like continuing the pressure and the pace that went along with life in Fleetwood Mac", but who knows.
Bob Brunning wrote also that Christine didn't socialise that much with Stevie during the 80s: "she seems to have developed her own fantasy world somehow, which i'm not part of"

I think they were in that moment, as Stevie said in the Making Rumours (Classic albums) video , there were times when they didn't want to see each other. After the Clinton show, Christine was interviewed: "It was a one-off thing, and I don't think anyone thought much beyond that show. At the airport as we left to come back to L.A., it was pretty much, ´Well, see you around'."

So that's why I thought nothing really great could come.

[SteveMacD]

By all accounts since, the book was little more than a distraction/annoyance to everybody.

It has since been well documented that the death of Christine's father is what made her decide to retire from the road. Stevie, who apparently was already feeling uneasy about being in the band without Lindsey, didn't want to be the sole singer/songwriter from the "Rumours" band still fronting the band at shows. The initial plan was that the girls would still record with the band, but the men of the Mac would tour without them. However, Rick Vito quit the band, and then Stevie. Rick has never really given his reason for leaving the band. Stevie, OTOH, stated that it was a dispute over "Silver Springs" that did it for her.

I don't think Christine had any real issue with Mick or John at the time, and even played the Super Bowl pre-game show a few weeks after the Clinton thing. The only time she really expressed any displeasure with the band was after Dave Mason was brought on board, and even then she did the "Time" album.

[Villavic]

By all accounts since, the book was little more than a distraction/annoyance to everybody.

It has since been well documented that the death of Christine's father is what made her decide to retire from the road. .

That's brand new to me. Where did you read (or see) that? Where is it documented?


I don't think Christine had any real issue with Mick or John at the time, and even played the Super Bowl pre-game show a few weeks after the Clinton thing. The only time she really expressed any displeasure with the band was after Dave Mason was brought on board, and even then she did the "Time" album.

I'm not sure.. At the Classic Albums- Making Rumours video, she said about Mick that he was a "little" daddy for a while, but now (1997) he is again a big daddy. That sounded to me like a complaint to him. Of course it's just my perception and can't relate it to The Chain boxset days, but it sounded that there were issues at some moment.

[chiliD]

I'm not sure.. At the Classic Albums- Making Rumours video, she said about Mick that he was a "little" daddy for a while, but now (1997) he is again a big daddy. That sounded to me like a complaint to him. Of course it's just my perception and can't relate it to The Chain boxset days, but it sounded that there were issues at some moment.

I recall seeing that too...I took the "little daddy" comment being to his being stripped of his band manager duties after the Tusk tour, then went into his nose-candy funk, filed for bankruptcy, etc. Eventually cleaned up and took the reins of Fleetwood Mac once again by '97, thus re-earning his "big daddy" status.

[michelej1]

Rather than being mad at him, I think Christine just thought that Mick was pathetic and was saddened by what he'd become. Sad and compassionate, but she also held him accountable too, so disappointed.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

I'm not sure.. At the Classic Albums- Making Rumours video, she said about Mick that he was a "little" daddy for a while, but now (1997) he is again a big daddy. That sounded to me like a complaint to him. Of course it's just my perception and can't relate it to The Chain boxset days, but it sounded that there were issues at some moment.

She was referring to Mick's drug addiction and how she pitied his pitiable state in the mid 80s when he was sleeping in someone's basement. Could be a complaint. I saw it more as her testament to the fact that he had found himself again and was even "bigger than ever."

Her complaints tend to surface as little jabs that betray a deeper current of feeling underneath. Such comments have usually been confined to Lindsey (particularly during the mid to late 80s) and then Bob Welch after the lawsuit. She has also made passive aggressive remarks about Jeremy Spencer and Danny Kirwan--nothing outright volatile, more like hints and suggestions. I'm sure being on the other side of such remarks could be quite irritating.

[michelej1]

Twenty-Five Years Ago, November 19, 2012

Hartford Sentinel
http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/lemoore/looking-back-in-lemoore/article_d6e3d7c6-3281-11e2-b2ea-0019bb2963f4.html

Fleetwood Mac will stage a concert Thursday, Dec. 10 in Fresno’s Selland Arena. Tickets for the 8 p.m. show are $17.50. Members of the group are Rick Vito, Stevie Nicks, Mick Fleetwood, Billy Burnett, John McVie and Christine McVie.

[Neal]

Twenty-Five Years Ago, November 19, 2012

Hartford Sentinel
http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/lemoore/looking-back-in-lemoore/article_d6e3d7c6-3281-11e2-b2ea-0019bb2963f4.html

Fleetwood Mac will stage a concert Thursday, Dec. 10 in Fresno’s Selland Arena. Tickets for the 8 p.m. show are $17.50. Members of the group are Rick Vito, Stevie Nicks, Mick Fleetwood, Billy Burnett, John McVie and Christine McVie.

My parents went to that show, and it's their hand-me-down BTM tourbook that is now in my collection! :nod:

[MikeInNV]

My parents went to that show, and it's their hand-me-down BTM tourbook that is now in my collection! :nod:

But this would've been the Tango tour, right?

[michelej1]

But this would've been the Tango tour, right?

Yes, you're right. 25 years ago was 1987 so it was Cage. Oops.

Michele

[MacShadowsBall]

I agree. I'm not fan of any of the "new" songs in 25 Years- The Chain. I guess it's probably that it wasn't a happy moment for any of the Rumours lineup songwriters, toward Fleetwood Mac. Wounds were still open, and probably there was anger and bitterness in the air. There can not be a good song within that environment.

The best novelty of the boxset was the alternate versions

See for me the best Post-Rumours mac songs are the ones from the '88 GH and the '92 box set. If the songs from BTM had been arranged/mixed/produced like those, BTM might have been a better album. :cool:

[Villavic]

See for me the best Post-Rumours mac songs are the ones from the '88 GH and the '92 box set. If the songs from BTM had been arranged/mixed/produced like those, BTM might have been a better album. :cool:

I agree about the arrangement/production. BTMmight have sound far better.

But about the new songs in GH and the boxset, the only jewel I love is As Long As You Follow. No big deal about the others. However, and sorry if I'm going out of topic cause this is from TINTN sessions, I found Ricky a very interesting song, I mean about how it sounds.

[On Ice]

A better mix for Mask with As Long as You Follow as the lead single and it would've been a hit for sure. Follow is an awesome Christine song and Stevie's back up is wonderful on the tune. I can't help but think Freedom would've been a killer tune if the vocal was clearer and out front more in the mix. In the Back of My Mind showed promise as an epic song and it was great to see them take a risk and open the show with it. All in all though, I found the line up bland.

[MacShadowsBall]

I agree about the arrangement/production. BTMmight have sound far better.

On my computer I have to adjust the EQ settings to get BTM songs to sound better and where you can actually understand the lead/BGV's and get a more distinct sound out of the kick and snare.


But about the new songs in GH and the boxset, the only jewel I love is As Long As You Follow.

Love Shines is one of my favorites. Love the video for it, too.

A better mix for Mask with As Long as You Follow as the lead single and it would've been a hit for sure. Follow is an awesome Christine song and Stevie's back up is wonderful on the tune.

As Long As You Follow is one of Christine's best songs. It being on BTM as the lead single would have been great! I like the video for it also.

I can't help but think Freedom would've been a killer tune if the vocal was clearer and out front more in the mix.

In the Back of My Mind showed promise as an epic song and it was great to see them take a risk and open the show with it.

Each Rumours album had that standout Stevie song which is clearly lacking on BTM. I don't think any of her songs were even released as singles. I think Love is Dangerous with a few tweeks would have been great on rock radio.

In the Back of My Mind is too long of a song. Opening the concert with it though was a good choice. :cool:

[Villavic]

In the Back of My Mind is too long of a song. Opening the concert with it though was a good choice. :cool:

Then you don't like Donna Summer's Love to love you baby . It is 17 minutes!! (once I heard they called it the 17 minutes orgasm). ;)

I do like long songs, like Queen's Prophet Song (8 minutes but connected with Love of my life is almost 12 m.), those long demos of Sara, etc. Other good long songs:
'Shine On You Crazy Diamond' (both parts) ~ Pink Floyd 26 minutes.
Fools Overture-Supertramp, almost 11 minutes
Disco Inferno - The Trammps, almost 11 minutes

We should start a threat about long songs! :thumbsup:

[chiliD]

Then you don't like Donna Summer's Love to love you baby . It is 17 minutes!! (once I heard they called it the 17 minutes orgasm). ;)

I do like long songs, like Queen's Prophet Song (8 minutes but connected with Love of my life is almost 12 m.), those long demos of Sara, etc. Other good long songs:
'Shine On You Crazy Diamond' (both parts) ~ Pink Floyd 26 minutes.
Fools Overture-Supertramp, almost 11 minutes
Disco Inferno - The Trammps, almost 11 minutes

We should start a threat about long songs! :thumbsup:

I guess The Allman Brothers Band's "Mountain Jam" clocking in at a whopping 44 minutes would be out of the question for you? To me, it's the fastest 44 minutes ever...seems like maybe 10. Then there's the live version of "Whipping Post" from the Live At The Fillmore album at 28+ minutes...the 7 minutes of "Hey Jude" feels longer. I guess "long" and realization of "time" itself is relative. I remember people squawking about the edited "Sara" on the original Tusk CD...to me, it was STILL too long. The 9 minutes of "Oh Well" on Then Play On seems to me to be a whole lot shorter than that. And, the live version of Derek & The Dominos' "Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad?" clocking in at about 10 minutes perceivably goes by much faster than Fleetwood Mac's live version of "Dreams".

[chiliD]

In the Back of My Mind is too long of a song. Opening the concert with it though was a good choice. :cool:

Should've opened the album, as well. Similarly to what I said in my previous post, "In The Back Of My Mind" goes by (to me) much faster than most songs half its length.

[PenguinHead]

Should've opened the album, as well. Similarly to what I said in my previous post, "In The Back Of My Mind" goes by (to me) much faster than most songs half its length.

I agree that 'In The Back of My Mind" would have been a great choice for an album opener. Yet, in my experience, it was a horrible choice as a show opener.

I saw several shows on that tour. While I admired their bold choice to start the show with a brand new, unfamiliar song (a deep album track!), it was a huge misstep to pick that particular song.

Picture an audience, minutes before they appear on stage; full of energy and excited in the anticipation. The band comes out and the crowd goes wild. What follows is a much too long intro which proceeds to consume all the energy in the room. When they start to play, the dirge-like pace of the song further lulls the audience into respectfu indifference.

[On Ice]

The thing I like most about In the Back of My Mind was Mick's drumming at the intro, very Mac-ish. I liked it as a show opener and saw it as a sign of the new line up trying to define itself. Perhaps to promote Behind the Mask, opening the show with the title cut and then having Christine say thank you that's the title track from our new album and have the crowd cheering. Voila excitement created for the album, but then again, it's almost a quarter century ago now :shrug:

[Chris H.]

Hello all: I find "Skies' the Limit" quite catchy. Very melodic. Easy for repeated listenings. Also think "Tango" cd is almost as good as "Rumours", with "Family Man", another good song. Just my humble opinion, though. Keep discussing.

[chiliD]

I agree that 'In The Back of My Mind" would have been a great choice for an album opener. Yet, in my experience, it was a horrible choice as a show opener.

I saw several shows on that tour. While I admired their bold choice to start the show with a brand new, unfamiliar song (a deep album track!), it was a huge misstep to pick that particular song.

Picture an audience, minutes before they appear on stage; full of energy and excited in the anticipation. The band comes out and the crowd goes wild. What follows is a much too long intro which proceeds to consume all the energy in the room. When they start to play, the dirge-like pace of the song further lulls the audience into respectfu indifference.

I saw them open with it...couldn't have been a BETTER opener...especially when they medley'ed it with "The Chain" (to me, an equally dirge-like opener...I guess they figured that in '90, a majority of their audience still was puffing on the local loco-weed when the houselights went down)...but, concert set pacing is a marathon, not a sprint. Otherwise, they'd just open with "Go Your Own Way" and then fail to keep the audience past the opener. (like Clapton mistakenly did during his '75 tour by opening his sets with "Layla")

[Neal]

But this would've been the Tango tour, right?

Hmm... did they play Fresno in 1990 as well? :shrug:

[MikeInNV]

Hmm... did they play Fresno in 1990 as well? :shrug:

But the 2012 article said "Twenty-five years ago".....which would have made in 1987.

[SteveMacD]

I saw them open with it...couldn't have been a BETTER opener...especially when they medley'ed it with "The Chain" (to me, an equally dirge-like opener...I guess they figured that in '90, a majority of their audience still was puffing on the local loco-weed when the houselights went down)...but, concert set pacing is a marathon, not a sprint. Otherwise, they'd just open with "Go Your Own Way" and then fail to keep the audience past the opener. (like Clapton mistakenly did during his '75 tour by opening his sets with "Layla")

The first time I saw them was on that tour, and I was BLOWN AWAY by that being the opener. I thought for months that it should have been, and the it WAS! The only reason that's Billy's greatest contribution to Fleetwood Mac is because they didn't do "The Bigger The Love..."

[SteveMacD]

The only reason that's Billy's greatest contribution to Fleetwood Mac is because they didn't do "The Bigger The Love..."

Okay, so they did it on one of the "Time" tours, however, I didn't see it live. Only on video replay. Still, GREAT SONG!!!

[cantgoback]

Personally Tango in the Night was sorta week but Behind the Mask and Time just weren't good albums and frankly not worth listening too. FM is my favorite band but even I think these albums shouldn't be recognized as real FM albums (even though they are).

[SteveMacD]

Personally Tango in the Night was sorta week but Behind the Mask and Time just weren't good albums and frankly not worth listening too. FM is my favorite band but even I think these albums shouldn't be recognized as real FM albums (even though they are).

They haven't done a "great" album of new material since "Tusk", but all of their albums since have had a few songs that make it worthwhile. As for the validity of calling BTM and Time Fleetwood Mac albums, again, people have been saying "those aren't real Fleetwood Mac albums" since Peter Green quit in 1970.

[chiliD]

As for the validity of calling BTM and Time Fleetwood Mac albums, again, people have been saying "those aren't real Fleetwood Mac albums" since Peter Green quit in 1970.

EXACTLY! When people ignore history, they repeat it. :thumbsup: