Lindsey and Mick cut 8 new tracks, would like at least an EP

[elle]

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/562676/Mick-picks-up-beat-for-Fleetwood-s-opening.html?nav=5014

Mick picks up beat for Fleetwood’s opening

July 5, 2012

By JON WOODHOUSE ([email protected]) , For The Maui News
Save |

Sammy Hagar has the Cabo Wabo cantinas, Alice Cooper has his Cooperstown sports bar in Phoenix, Jay-Z owns the 40/40 Club chain, Motley Crue singer Vince Neil runs the Tres Rios Cantina in Vegas, and blues legend B.B. King lends his name to a chain of blues club restaurants. Now, Mick Fleetwood will join the ranks of music stars to open his own restaurant and club in Lahaina.

Mick's mum calls it his Club Keller. You see, back when the legendary drummer was a young lad in England, he transformed a family barn into a music den inviting friends over for snacks and records, branding it Club Keller, after one of his middle names, Kells.

"I was learning drums and we had this old stable area," Mick recalls. "I'd stop in London on the way to boarding school at a cafe in Chelsea, very bohemian. I'd see guitar players and folkies. So I got some fish netting and chianti bottles and had this whole club from 9 to about 14 with an old wind up 78 (rpm) player. So this to Mom is my Club Keller. At long last I've done it."

Mick's budding entrepreneurial vision playing music for his mates will reach fruition with the targeted launch date of late July of what is one of the largest restaurants on Maui.

Walking around the massive basement of Fleetwood's on Front St., which adds up to 6,000-square feet with the ground floor wine shop, Mick recalls early days in London playing the city's legendary clubs.

"Deep in my fantasies, I feel like I'm down in the Marquee Club," he says, referring to the historic venue where bands like the Rolling Stones, the Animals, the Who and Fleetwood Mac mesmerized audiences. "There's nothing like it on the island."

A late addition is the basement that provides a curfew free and soundproof venue as part of the 16,000-square-foot, four-story establishment.

"You could have a wild wedding on the roof, then we'll take you downstairs and you can be here 'til 2 or 3 in the morning with a band playing and no sound problems," he continues. "This is Mick's hang where you're in. And you could have a studio here."

Upstairs, there are stages on the roof and on the second floor, which will house one of Mick's drum sets. "We won't have a monthly, weekly roster of stuff outside of small entertainment which will happen every day and then well probably bang it out two days a week with something more substantial," he explains. "I'll be here a lot. I'm going to be a Bob Longhi student. It's a hard business to be in so it's going to be like show time every day and that suits me, and I will be able to play. I think it can be an eclectic meeting ground of the arts, stuff that's odd. It can be a hub. As the years tick by, the thought of sitting here in my seventies telling stories is a good thing."

As befitting a member of Britain's rock royalty, Mick imagines some of his compatriots will join him when on island for occasional jams.

He mentions an email correspondence with Elton John's guitarist Davey Johnstone.

"They're in Hamburg freezing," Mick reports. "He said they're all jealous because Elton loves Hawaii. I think Davey will be here when we open. I wrote back and said, let Elton know he might be able to relive his Blue Max performance at Fleetwood's."

And then there's Aerosmith's charismatic lead singer Steven Tyler, who happens to be an owner/investor.

"Steven Tyler is an old friend who loves the island very much," Mick notes. "He's more anxious to get it open than I am. He's going, 'when am I going to come and blow it out.' He's eternally on. He reinvented himself and he's at the top of his game. He's a phenomenal singer, one of the truly greats. I think he'll be here for the opening. He's a real old Fleetwood Mac fan, so he'll probably just want to do some old Fleetwood Mac songs. He's basically said he wouldn't be doing what he's doing if he hadn't heard 'Rattlesnake Shake.' That was the beginning of Aerosmith. Both Joe (Perry) and Steven are huge Peter Green fans. He said, 'Mick we were the guys who used to sit in the front row in Boston looking at you doing this stuff, going oh my God, if only we could.' "

The phenomenal formative days of Fleetwood Mac are captured in a new tribute album "Just Tell Me That You Want Me," which will be released by Starbucks on Aug. 14.

ZZ Top's Billy Gibbons delivers a primal, earth-shaking rendition of Peter Green's "Oh Well," while Sonic Youth's Lee Renaldo covers Green's seminal instrumental "Albatross."

"I emailed Billy and said it really holds up," Mick says. "I love it, the slow pace. I said, 'only you have the nerve and grease to do that.' "

The Bob Welch era of Mac is represented by MGMT's epic, 9-minute take of "Future Games." And the massively popular Lindsey Buckingham/Stevie Nicks period is amply represented by the likes of Marianne Faithfull ("Angel"), The Kills "Dreams," and the surf pop band Best Coast ("Rhiannon").

Bob Welch, who performed with Fleetwood Mac from 1971 to 1974, tragically died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound on June 8.

"It was a total shock," Mick says. "I didn't think in a million years he would dream of doing that. It was depression and health issues. He must have been so ill."

As the grand ring master of Fleetwood Mac, the venerable drummer has finally secured the agreement of all band members to launch a new tour in 2013, after Stevie Nicks has concluded promoting her current solo album, "In Your Dreams."

The Mac last hit the road in 2009.

"Everyone's on board," Mick announces. "We're all on the same page. Stevie's been like Lindsey who went off and did his thing and was at one point ready to do some touring, but couldn't figure it out. And it went on and on.

"After 40-odd years of whatever our thing is, you have to learn to get over being disappointed when you think something is happening and then it's not. But none of this could have worked out. So we're planning to start touring in March. There's a commitment to one leg and if it's a happy leg then we will continue. It would be foolish not to.

"It's really about demand. You never quite know if you leave the scene. Bands get the shock of their lives when they haven't toured for years and they have half full places they're hurting. The good thing about us is we have a very strong audience and we don't over put ourselves out there. So when we do go out people are enthused and we usually do very well."

Although they will embark on a major trek without promoting a new album, some of the members have recently collaborated on new Mac music.

"Lindsey, myself and John (McVie) are hoping Stevie will enjoy at least doing an EP," he says. "Lindsey and I have put some great music together. I went to LA for six weeks and we cut eight tracks as a calling card that we really want to do something. I think some of that should see the light of day. It's really good and fresh and young. And if

everyone's happy, maybe that will be the beginnings of an album.

"It's a funny bunch. You can't push too hard. If you push too hard it just stops. But it's also very exhausting when you really need to know what's going on. It's not asking a lot to know what you're going to be doing for two years, so I can get a day job or whatever."

In a recent Playboy magazine interview, he talked about the dysfunctional nature of life in such a popular group.

"It's the most dysfunctional rock and roll franchise ever," he explains, laughing. "And not because of all the weird emotional things, it's actually because we never work. And we could have. Now we really don't have that much time left; we've got probably a five to seven year window and then nobody's going to want to do it including me who's sort of the biggest gig hustler known to mankind. So this is a good alternative."

Since first dreaming of making a home on Maui in 1973, Mick finally made the move here a few years back. Once settled, he formed the Island Rumours Band, drawing on the talents of local musicians Raiatea Helm, Willie K, Eric Gilliom, Lenny Castellanos and Lopaka Colon, along with former Mac guitarist Rick Vito. Then he launched the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band with Vito, Castellanos and Mark Johnstone, which produced a Grammy-nominated live CD.

Lately he's developed a fondness for the ukulele. "I've got about 20 now," he enthuses. "They're always in my car. I only play open tuning, but I'm cheeky enough to say I'm getting good on it."

Was he inspired by George Harrison?

"Inadvertently he turned me on to it. His film at the MACC really moved me. I was weeping. There was my whole life with my first wife Jenny (Boyd) and (sister) Patty (who was married to Harrison) and they showed the house in Esher where we all used to hang. I truly loved him. And I like to think I turned George on to Maui years ago. I said, you need to go to Maui, there's a place called Hana. He said, 'I've never heard of it.' "

Looking forward to the opening Mick concludes: "This was obviously meant to be. I know people are excited about it. Lahaina was buzzing (in the past) and it just isn't now. But I'm quietly hopeful that we can really do fun stuff here. And I envision doing live albums from Front Street. My interest in the building goes back way over 10 years. I was looking at it when Gerard (Marti) had his gallery here. It's a stellar place, very unique, in a way like the town hall of Lahaina. So 50 years later, this is Club Keller."

Anyone interested in contacting Fleetwood's may email Jonathan Todd at [email protected].

[CADreaming]

"It's a funny bunch. You can't push too hard. If you push too hard it just stops. But it's also very exhausting when you really need to know what's going on. It's not asking a lot to know what you're going to be doing for two years, so I can get a day job or whatever."



:laugh::laugh:

So the EP sounds a little promising anyway. They could do 2 more songs and have a full album though. ;)

Thanks for posting, Elle!

[michelej1]

Interesting. So, Mick was in L. A. for six weeks with Lindsey. All the things that go on behind the scenes that we will never know about.

Sounds like Lindsey certainly has enough for a solo album even if they can't convert any of the tracks to FM's use.

They are looking at March to launch the tour. Good to know. Going in like a lion!

Michele

[louielouie2000]

This is the most hopeful bit of news I've heard out of Fleetwood Mac in a decade. If Stevie likes what she hears, she might just be game for recording a full album. She had the time of her life recording In Your Dreams, and didn't care that it didn't sell. I have this strong feeling she doesn't want to close the Mac storybook with Say You Will being the last word. I'm not holding my breath, but I have renewed hope for a Mac studio album again. :thumbsup:

[Blueletter18]

This is great news, thanks so much for the update! I'm so glad they're serious about cutting some new stuff.

[MikeInNV]

This wouldn't be something they would have out prior to the tour, would it? Solo commitments run through September. Rehearsals start in January, and the tour starts in March. October and November to put this together? Is Lindsey producing? I don't know about this.

[Blueletter18]

I sure hope they can find a way to get it out before the tour! Seems like no one would have the motivation to go into the studio after touring...

[louielouie2000]

This wouldn't be something they would have out prior to the tour, would it? Solo commitments run through September. Rehearsals start in January, and the tour starts in March. October and November to put this together? Is Lindsey producing? I don't know about this.

I wouldn't think they'd have any time to do anything serious before touring. 3 months would provide enough time to lay down some demos and get things moving, but I'm guessing everyone will be taking time off in between their solo tours & the impending Mac tour, which will likely be a big one. I'm just hoping they don't get sick of each other on the road, and decide against recording. That's a very likely possibility though, unfortunately.

[BombaySapphire3]

In the old days they would have completed the album and then toured behind it ..not holding my breath here again.

[CADreaming]

Hey, they could re-release Buckingham Nicks with a FM EP and call it "The Package Deal". :laugh: :wavey:

[sjpdg]

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/562676/Mick-picks-up-beat-for-Fleetwood-s-opening.html?nav=5014

Mick picks up beat for Fleetwood’s opening

July 5, 2012

By JON WOODHOUSE ([email protected]) , For The Maui News
Save |

Sammy Hagar has the Cabo Wabo cantinas, Alice Cooper has his Cooperstown sports bar in Phoenix, Jay-Z owns the 40/40 Club chain, Motley Crue singer Vince Neil runs the Tres Rios Cantina in Vegas, and blues legend B.B. King lends his name to a chain of blues club restaurants. Now, Mick Fleetwood will join the ranks of music stars to open his own restaurant and club in Lahaina.

Mick's mum calls it his Club Keller. You see, back when the legendary drummer was a young lad in England, he transformed a family barn into a music den inviting friends over for snacks and records, branding it Club Keller, after one of his middle names, Kells.

"I was learning drums and we had this old stable area," Mick recalls. "I'd stop in London on the way to boarding school at a cafe in Chelsea, very bohemian. I'd see guitar players and folkies. So I got some fish netting and chianti bottles and had this whole club from 9 to about 14 with an old wind up 78 (rpm) player. So this to Mom is my Club Keller. At long last I've done it."

Mick's budding entrepreneurial vision playing music for his mates will reach fruition with the targeted launch date of late July of what is one of the largest restaurants on Maui.

Walking around the massive basement of Fleetwood's on Front St., which adds up to 6,000-square feet with the ground floor wine shop, Mick recalls early days in London playing the city's legendary clubs.

"Deep in my fantasies, I feel like I'm down in the Marquee Club," he says, referring to the historic venue where bands like the Rolling Stones, the Animals, the Who and Fleetwood Mac mesmerized audiences. "There's nothing like it on the island."

A late addition is the basement that provides a curfew free and soundproof venue as part of the 16,000-square-foot, four-story establishment.

"You could have a wild wedding on the roof, then we'll take you downstairs and you can be here 'til 2 or 3 in the morning with a band playing and no sound problems," he continues. "This is Mick's hang where you're in. And you could have a studio here."

Upstairs, there are stages on the roof and on the second floor, which will house one of Mick's drum sets. "We won't have a monthly, weekly roster of stuff outside of small entertainment which will happen every day and then well probably bang it out two days a week with something more substantial," he explains. "I'll be here a lot. I'm going to be a Bob Longhi student. It's a hard business to be in so it's going to be like show time every day and that suits me, and I will be able to play. I think it can be an eclectic meeting ground of the arts, stuff that's odd. It can be a hub. As the years tick by, the thought of sitting here in my seventies telling stories is a good thing."

As befitting a member of Britain's rock royalty, Mick imagines some of his compatriots will join him when on island for occasional jams.

He mentions an email correspondence with Elton John's guitarist Davey Johnstone.

"They're in Hamburg freezing," Mick reports. "He said they're all jealous because Elton loves Hawaii. I think Davey will be here when we open. I wrote back and said, let Elton know he might be able to relive his Blue Max performance at Fleetwood's."

And then there's Aerosmith's charismatic lead singer Steven Tyler, who happens to be an owner/investor.

"Steven Tyler is an old friend who loves the island very much," Mick notes. "He's more anxious to get it open than I am. He's going, 'when am I going to come and blow it out.' He's eternally on. He reinvented himself and he's at the top of his game. He's a phenomenal singer, one of the truly greats. I think he'll be here for the opening. He's a real old Fleetwood Mac fan, so he'll probably just want to do some old Fleetwood Mac songs. He's basically said he wouldn't be doing what he's doing if he hadn't heard 'Rattlesnake Shake.' That was the beginning of Aerosmith. Both Joe (Perry) and Steven are huge Peter Green fans. He said, 'Mick we were the guys who used to sit in the front row in Boston looking at you doing this stuff, going oh my God, if only we could.' "

The phenomenal formative days of Fleetwood Mac are captured in a new tribute album "Just Tell Me That You Want Me," which will be released by Starbucks on Aug. 14.

ZZ Top's Billy Gibbons delivers a primal, earth-shaking rendition of Peter Green's "Oh Well," while Sonic Youth's Lee Renaldo covers Green's seminal instrumental "Albatross."

"I emailed Billy and said it really holds up," Mick says. "I love it, the slow pace. I said, 'only you have the nerve and grease to do that.' "

The Bob Welch era of Mac is represented by MGMT's epic, 9-minute take of "Future Games." And the massively popular Lindsey Buckingham/Stevie Nicks period is amply represented by the likes of Marianne Faithfull ("Angel"), The Kills "Dreams," and the surf pop band Best Coast ("Rhiannon").

Bob Welch, who performed with Fleetwood Mac from 1971 to 1974, tragically died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound on June 8.

"It was a total shock," Mick says. "I didn't think in a million years he would dream of doing that. It was depression and health issues. He must have been so ill."

As the grand ring master of Fleetwood Mac, the venerable drummer has finally secured the agreement of all band members to launch a new tour in 2013, after Stevie Nicks has concluded promoting her current solo album, "In Your Dreams."

The Mac last hit the road in 2009.

"Everyone's on board," Mick announces. "We're all on the same page. Stevie's been like Lindsey who went off and did his thing and was at one point ready to do some touring, but couldn't figure it out. And it went on and on.

"After 40-odd years of whatever our thing is, you have to learn to get over being disappointed when you think something is happening and then it's not. But none of this could have worked out. So we're planning to start touring in March. There's a commitment to one leg and if it's a happy leg then we will continue. It would be foolish not to.

"It's really about demand. You never quite know if you leave the scene. Bands get the shock of their lives when they haven't toured for years and they have half full places they're hurting. The good thing about us is we have a very strong audience and we don't over put ourselves out there. So when we do go out people are enthused and we usually do very well."

Although they will embark on a major trek without promoting a new album, some of the members have recently collaborated on new Mac music.

"Lindsey, myself and John (McVie) are hoping Stevie will enjoy at least doing an EP," he says. "Lindsey and I have put some great music together. I went to LA for six weeks and we cut eight tracks as a calling card that we really want to do something. I think some of that should see the light of day. It's really good and fresh and young. And if

everyone's happy, maybe that will be the beginnings of an album.

"It's a funny bunch. You can't push too hard. If you push too hard it just stops. But it's also very exhausting when you really need to know what's going on. It's not asking a lot to know what you're going to be doing for two years, so I can get a day job or whatever."

In a recent Playboy magazine interview, he talked about the dysfunctional nature of life in such a popular group.

"It's the most dysfunctional rock and roll franchise ever," he explains, laughing. "And not because of all the weird emotional things, it's actually because we never work. And we could have. Now we really don't have that much time left; we've got probably a five to seven year window and then nobody's going to want to do it including me who's sort of the biggest gig hustler known to mankind. So this is a good alternative."

Since first dreaming of making a home on Maui in 1973, Mick finally made the move here a few years back. Once settled, he formed the Island Rumours Band, drawing on the talents of local musicians Raiatea Helm, Willie K, Eric Gilliom, Lenny Castellanos and Lopaka Colon, along with former Mac guitarist Rick Vito. Then he launched the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band with Vito, Castellanos and Mark Johnstone, which produced a Grammy-nominated live CD.

Lately he's developed a fondness for the ukulele. "I've got about 20 now," he enthuses. "They're always in my car. I only play open tuning, but I'm cheeky enough to say I'm getting good on it."

Was he inspired by George Harrison?

"Inadvertently he turned me on to it. His film at the MACC really moved me. I was weeping. There was my whole life with my first wife Jenny (Boyd) and (sister) Patty (who was married to Harrison) and they showed the house in Esher where we all used to hang. I truly loved him. And I like to think I turned George on to Maui years ago. I said, you need to go to Maui, there's a place called Hana. He said, 'I've never heard of it.' "

Looking forward to the opening Mick concludes: "This was obviously meant to be. I know people are excited about it. Lahaina was buzzing (in the past) and it just isn't now. But I'm quietly hopeful that we can really do fun stuff here. And I envision doing live albums from Front Street. My interest in the building goes back way over 10 years. I was looking at it when Gerard (Marti) had his gallery here. It's a stellar place, very unique, in a way like the town hall of Lahaina. So 50 years later, this is Club Keller."

Anyone interested in contacting Fleetwood's may email Jonathan Todd at [email protected].

Sounds really promising. Hoping the EP or full album, whichever, is out prior to a tour. Would love to have some new Mac music. :thumbsup:

[BombaySapphire3]

Sounds really promising. Hoping the EP or full album, whichever, is out prior to a tour. Would love to have some new Mac music. :thumbsup:
A new album will never be out before a tour in 2013 ..this is Fleetwood Mac we're discussing here.This comes back to the cash grab again.If they put art before commerce they would do an album and then tour but the immediate gratification of wringing more cash out of another oldies tour trumps everything else.

[Christopher]

So we're planning to start touring in March. There's a commitment to one leg and if it's a happy leg then we will continue. It would be foolish not to.

"It's really about demand. You never quite know if you leave the scene. Bands get the shock of their lives when they haven't toured for years and they have half full places they're hurting. The good thing about us is we have a very strong audience and we don't over put ourselves out there. So when we do go out people are enthused and we usually do very well."

Although they will embark on a major trek without promoting a new album, some of the members have recently collaborated on new Mac music.

"Lindsey, myself and John (McVie) are hoping Stevie will enjoy at least doing an EP," he says. "Lindsey and I have put some great music together. I went to LA for six weeks and we cut eight tracks as a calling card that we really want to do something. I think some of that should see the light of day. It's really good and fresh and young. And if everyone's happy, maybe that will be the beginnings of an album.

"It's a funny bunch. You can't push too hard. If you push too hard it just stops. But it's also very exhausting when you really need to know what's going on. It's not asking a lot to know what you're going to be doing for two years, so I can get a day job or whatever."


I know most of us here are full of hope about long awaited, overdue new FM music, but this is just vague speculation on Micks part. Personally I'm not about to get excited just yet based on more empty possibilities from the mouth of Mick or even Lindsey at this time. Stevie holds the cards for any new FM music now, and if & when she say's they are recording new music, then I may start to believe.:cool:

Besides, if you put aside the excitement of possible new music to really read between the lines of Mick's interview, basically all he is confirming is that FM is planning/committed to one leg (2-3 months) beginning @March 2013. Furthermore, there is concern about market demand, and everyone being happy. If both occur and promoters and audiences are shelling out for FM's brand out on the road, FM will continue onward on a much longer tour, which is the most likely scenario.

Therefore I'm 99% convinced there is not enough time for them to write, record, produce, mix & label shop and then distribute & market this new music (EP) before any tour! Plus add in all the logistical nightmares as well as lawyers & managers involved to just make this little EP happen - I'm not holding my breath! Remember Mick's words "I think some of that should see the light of day" -not exactly a confident endorsement.

[michelej1]

The reason I'm not excited is because Mick has just said he's recorded 8 of Lindsey's songs. That says that Lindsey is practically ready with another solo album. It doesn't say anything about Fleetwood Mac.

We still have to get songs from her and need to do it in a way that differs from SYW. I liked SYW, but she didn't. So, unless she is sitting down with Lindsey and they have the feeling that they are building something together from the ground up, we aren't going to get anything but hard feelings. She also doesn't want to sing on top of songs of his that he's already perfected and polished like little Russian boxes.

She might record something new, in honor of her mother. Lindsey can convince her that he wants to be part of a song suited for that purpose. So, I can see them recording one together. But I'm afraid it might be a sentimental song that I'm not interested in hearing.

Michele

[Peestie]

Lindsey solo stuff (hopefully) with Mick on drums would be fantastic. Mick on 8 songs that have a bit of oomph and another 2-3 with Lindsey doing his solo guitar and voice thing and we've got an album there!

Never mind wasting time on the Mac tour, Lindsey, just release that album and tour behind it!

[CADreaming]

The reason I'm not excited is because Mick has just said he's recorded 8 of Lindsey's songs. That says that Lindsey is practically ready with another solo album. It doesn't say anything about Fleetwood Mac.

Mick's & John's involvement, coupled with Mick's previous EP comments, and LB's "no new album- yet" tease, and Stevie's own remarks about the world deserving one more FM album and trying to figure out a way to get it produced quickly insinuates Fleetwood Mac album.

We still have to get songs from her and need to do it in a way that differs from SYW. I liked SYW, but she didn't. So, unless she is sitting down with Lindsey and they have the feeling that they are building something together from the ground up, we aren't going to get anything but hard feelings. She also doesn't want to sing on top of songs of his that he's already perfected and polished like little Russian boxes.

She didn't like SYW or she didn't like how long it took and had a bad taste in her mouth over some other argument they never specified publicly?

Doesn't she always sing on top of his songs and vice versa? I'm not sure how their m.o. has changed much over the years. She's still basically leaving the cassette by the coffee pot and he's telling her to sing a little harmony here, do a little ooh-ahh there....

She might record something new, in honor of her mother. Lindsey can convince her that he wants to be part of a song suited for that purpose. So, I can see them recording one together. But I'm afraid it might be a sentimental song that I'm not interested in hearing.

Michele

Not even the voyeur in you? ;)

Maybe they could meld their songs about her mother together in the first-ever Buckingham-Nicks (or Nicks-Buckingham) co-write.

[chiliD]

Maybe they could meld their songs about her mother together in the first-ever Buckingham-Nicks (or Nicks-Buckingham) co-write.

No..."Frozen Love" was a Buckingham-Nicks co-write. :nod:

[CADreaming]

No..."Frozen Love" was a Buckingham-Nicks co-write. :nod:

:thumbsup: Well, you know what I mean.... Stevie just "gave" that to him. I mean a REAL co-write. You know, like Lennon & McCartney... ;)

[michelej1]

Mick's & John's involvement, coupled with Mick's previous EP comments, and LB's "no new album- yet" tease, and Stevie's own remarks about the world deserving one more FM album and trying to figure out a way to get it produced quickly insinuates Fleetwood Mac album.



That's a compression of things that have occurred over several years' time. I'm talking about what we have to look forward to right now. Rehearsals in January and a show in March does not insinuate another FM album any time soon. While I realize these dates are not certain, it tells me of what FM's tentative goals are time wise and those goals don't seem to bode well for an album.

As for why they didn't get along on SYW, whatever happened when she was in Hawaii, I'm quite sure she didn't like the way her songs sounded either, on top of everything else.

There's a difference between Stevie singing on top of Lindsey's songs and giving him old demos and both of them writing songs designed for FM or arranging the songs with those harmonies in mind. At least he designated a difference between those two things. Whether he thinks there really is or not, he seemed to think that pretending there's a difference and pledging to form the album more organically the next time around might make production easier for Stevie.

As for the voyeur in me, I think that can be satisfied by looking at the band onstage. Having them record songs that I find dull and maudlin would just be depressing, as was Temporary One and Sweet Girl for me. Although, I have put the lyrics to Temporary One to other uses that have meant something special. I'd rather FM had not recorded and performed those songs though.

Michele

[FM77]

Since Stevie is of the opinion that records don't sell anymore and that fans don't really want to hear new songs on tour, I would think a new record is a pipe dream.

She also gets very impatient with Lindsey's pace in the studio. I think she wants to hit the road and get the money. A new record isn't going to sell more tickets when the majority of people in the seats want to hear Rumours.

[chiliD]

:thumbsup: Well, you know what I mean.... Stevie just "gave" that to him. I mean a REAL co-write. You know, like Lennon & McCartney... ;)

Lindsey wrote the music, Stevie the lyrics...I wouldn't really say "she GAVE that to him" (at least not in the sense that she GAVE Fleetwood Mac the lyrics to "The Chain")

Before or after 1965? :shrug: Wasn't much "co-writing" going on between John & Paul after the Help! album. :nod: They were just contractually obligated to credit their songs "Lennon/McCartney" until 1970. (that's why "Yesterday" & "Give Peace A Chance" are both Lennon/McCartney songs...when we KNOW that the other didn't have anything to do with the song).

[CADreaming]

Lindsey wrote the music, Stevie the lyrics...I wouldn't really say "she GAVE that to him" (at least not in the sense that she GAVE Fleetwood Mac the lyrics to "The Chain")

Before or after 1965? :shrug: Wasn't much "co-writing" going on between John & Paul after the Help! album. :nod: They were just contractually obligated to credit their songs "Lennon/McCartney" until 1970. (that's why "Yesterday" & "Give Peace A Chance" are both Lennon/McCartney songs...when we KNOW that the other didn't have anything to do with the song).

I'm just making fun of Stevie's co-writing comments & her recent epiphany with Dave Stewart, which she compared to Lennon & McCartney, and how she never wrote with Lindsey (something that has been disputed by various others who observed otherwise). Tongue in cheek. :)

[sodascouts]

"You could have a wild wedding on the roof, then we'll take you downstairs and you can be here 'til 2 or 3 in the morning with a band playing and no sound problems," he continues. "This is Mick's hang where you're in. And you could have a studio here."

Some may laugh, but this sounds pretty freaking cool to me. All I need is a guy who's as into the Mac as I am.... any takers? ;)

The phenomenal formative days of Fleetwood Mac are captured in a new tribute album "Just Tell Me That You Want Me," which will be released by Starbucks on Aug. 14.

I had missed that this was going to be a Starbucks release. It still blows my mind that Starbucks is in the CD business, even though it has been for years now.

Although they will embark on a major trek without promoting a new album, some of the members have recently collaborated on new Mac music.

"Lindsey, myself and John (McVie) are hoping Stevie will enjoy at least doing an EP," he says. "Lindsey and I have put some great music together. I went to LA for six weeks and we cut eight tracks as a calling card that we really want to do something. I think some of that should see the light of day. It's really good and fresh and young. And if everyone's happy, maybe that will be the beginnings of an album.

Oh, good! OK, Stevie, get with the program!

"It's a funny bunch. You can't push too hard. If you push too hard it just stops. But it's also very exhausting when you really need to know what's going on. It's not asking a lot to know what you're going to be doing for two years, so I can get a day job or whatever."

Leave it to Mick to be worried about getting a day job! I have to admit, despite his reputation for greediness, I love how open he is about his desire to keep the cash coming in. It's something many of us can relate to!

Anyone interested in contacting Fleetwood's may email Jonathan Todd at [email protected].

Ah, so Mr. Todd is still around? When I posted here regularly a few years ago, there was much enmity between this man and the fan community. Has he recovered his reputation?

[CADreaming]

That's a compression of things that have occurred over several years' time. I'm talking about what we have to look forward to right now. Rehearsals in January and a show in March does not insinuate another FM album any time soon. While I realize these dates are not certain, it tells me of what FM's tentative goals are time wise and those goals don't seem to bode well for an album.

About 3 years really, but who's counting? :)

You're right - it seems it wouldn't bode well for a new album. But, it's like you pointed out - there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes we don't know about. Stevie may have spent those 6 weeks "underground" she referred to recently, in a studio throwing some vocals on a few tracks.

As for why they didn't get along on SYW, whatever happened when she was in Hawaii, I'm quite sure she didn't like the way her songs sounded either, on top of everything else.

Maybe. But, I've never read or can't recall a comment she made that specified that. I've read fans assuming she didn't like the album because she said the tour was rough - and a lot of speculation about that too.

There's a difference between Stevie singing on top of Lindsey's songs and giving him old demos and both of them writing songs designed for FM or arranging the songs with those harmonies in mind. At least he designated a difference between those two things. Whether he thinks there really is or not, he seemed to think that pretending there's a difference and pledging to form the album more organically the next time around might make production easier for Stevie.

I think they would blast out a masterpiece - or several - if they would work this way. But, when have they ever really? I think they have always sort of done it the same way. "Here's a song I wrote, what do you think?" And, then they get into song structure, tweaking, etc. Nothing much has changed - except for Stevie probably stands her ground more on what she doesn't want changed which just leads to heated sessions. The world won't end over it, but it's drama I think they both want to avoid, although they may not be able to.

As for the voyeur in me, I think that can be satisfied by looking at the band onstage. Having them record songs that I find dull and maudlin would just be depressing, as was Temporary One and Sweet Girl for me. Although, I have put the lyrics to Temporary One to other uses that have meant something special. I'd rather FM had not recorded and performed those songs though.


I hear ya. Just teasing. I liked both of those songs though. There's really not many of their songs I truly dislike.

[Christopher]

Since Stevie is of the opinion that records don't sell anymore and that fans don't really want to hear new songs on tour, I would think a new record is a pipe dream.

She also gets very impatient with Lindsey's pace in the studio. I think she wants to hit the road and get the money. A new record isn't going to sell more tickets when the majority of people in the seats want to hear Rumours.

I agree to some degree, and no one should be surprised because Stevie put it out there recently in an interview just prior to hitting the road again - "I can no longer ask people to buy records, because nobody buys records anymore" - sounding somewhat resigned and defeated that IYD didn't sell more than even she expected (which is ironic because when IYD was 1st released she claimed she didn't care what it sold:rolleyes:). So even though IYD sales are probably at or near 200K (which is pretty decent these days for a solo female classic rock act in her 60's) This fact portends that FM would possibly sell @300K+ at this point, if you base it upon SYW selling @100K+ more than TISL 9 years ago. Those numbers probably don't excite Stevie or her managers/advisors to once again tread uncertain waters and green light a new recording endeavor.

But, while I agree the "majority" of people going to see FM next year will want to hear their greatest hits and "Rumours", there can be no denying that if FM recorded and released some new music, that would excite & motivate thousands of FM's hardcore fan base to attend and support yet another outing, just like IYD & SWS motivated & enlivened thousands more fans to attend Stevie's and Lindsey's latest tours in 11' & 12'. Whether or not they care about their base is debatable at this time. It's more about Lindsey vs Stevie's opinion & attitude towards new music at this point. I wonder if Stevie would be on board if the rest of FM agreed to have Dave Stewart produce these new sessions, like she was over a year ago. Somehow, I think her attitude has changed. Who knows...

[elle]

Lindsey solo stuff (hopefully) with Mick on drums would be fantastic. Mick on 8 songs that have a bit of oomph and another 2-3 with Lindsey doing his solo guitar and voice thing and we've got an album there!

Never mind wasting time on the Mac tour, Lindsey, just release that album and tour behind it!

THIS!!

i understand Lindsey et al want to work together as a team, and there's all that love with Stevie that he wants to build upon, and it might be interesting if they do something together... but if she's not feeling it, then PLEASE don't wait around and just get out your new stuff whenever you have it done Lindsey!!!!!

considering all he released starting with UTS, i'm really hoping Lindsey has a newly found appreciation for time and won't sit around waiting for years for all the Mac-related politics to get sorted out. for album sales it doesn't matter anyway whether it's solo or FM... practically nobody makes their money on new releases anymore. and either solo or Mac, he/they should just release it on Mind Kit and not waste time shopping it around either.

although i don't really care whether FM puts out another album or not as long as Lindsey keeps churning out his new stuff (plus some of those maginificent older songs still waiting to be released, like all that Village Recorder stuff!), i'm so happy to learn or experience all the stuff Lindsey has been doing simultaneously these days - various tour types, releasing new and live music, writing songs and recording more new music at the same time - great time to be a LB fan!!:xoxo::xoxo:

[elle]

I mean a REAL co-write. You know, like Lennon & McCartney... ;)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: yeah, we know how real those co-writes were!

[shackin'up]

Some may laugh, but this sounds pretty freaking cool to me. All I need is a guy who's as into the Mac as I am.... any takers? ;)
?

:lol: :lol: I volunteer, Nancy. Let's do that, get p'ssed, and party until deep into the next day, sleep out the hangover and divorce the day after that. With a small afterparty to celebrate that... :cool: :cool:

[sodascouts]

Sounds like a plan! :xoxo:

[michelej1]

Maybe. But, I've never read or can't recall a comment she made that specified that.

I've seen her say she doesn't like the SYW album often.

“It was five years ago now so I can say I didn’t like it at all; I didn’t like making it, I didn’t like the songs, so that tour was very hard for me.”

She didn't come out and say it until after the tour was over, which might suggest that she was just mad about the tour and that's what changed her mind about the album. After all, she did say they weren't speaking after the tour ended, but she sounded lackluster about the album even before the tour began. I tend to think she never liked it.

I will say that I don't think Stevie hated the whole SYW tour. I think she had a lot of fun on it at first and then they had some kind of fight at the end that soured her -- plus, it was just too long and they were weary. But I don't believe that the whole tour was miserable. I think she had more fun on the tour than in the studio.


I hear ya. Just teasing. I liked both of those songs though. There's really not many of their songs I truly dislike.

As for a tribute song to her mom, maybe she'll surprise me. After all, if
EO17 was for her uncle (in part) maybe she might write something hip for her mother and not give us her version of Circle Dance instead, which is what I imagine and dread in my head. But I am rather pleased with Soldier's Angel, so maybe I should have a little trust. Heck, if they'd just polish Twisted up and do that live (along with, yes, a couple of BN songs), I'd probably quickly get over not having fresh material.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

You get a very clear sense of Stevie's dissatisfaction with how her music was turning out in the Destiny Rules documentary where they work on Thrown Down.... and in one of the webcam/"hidden"camera sections she's talking to Mick and she's saying how if, when she hears the produced versions of her songs played back to her, she doesn't feel the same excitement about the song that she felt when she was just sitting by herself playing it on the piano to nobody, then she just doesn't even care about it anymore...and it was clear she was talking about Thrown Down specifically and probably several of her other songs as well overall.

I agree with Michele's earlier post, I don't want to see a repeat of anything SYW-like in how a new album might get made or come together. I think if it's not a true collaborative creative process in the studio (that may or may not mean actually writing songs together but certainly working out arrangements together-- think of the footage of Stevie and Lindsey at the piano working on Angel in the tusk documentary for example) then Stevie is not interested.

[CADreaming]

I've seen her say she doesn't like the SYW album often.

Quote:
“It was five years ago now so I can say I didn’t like it at all; I didn’t like making it, I didn’t like the songs, so that tour was very hard for me.”

She didn't come out and say it until after the tour was over, which might suggest that she was just mad about the tour and that's what changed her mind about the album. After all, she did say they weren't speaking after the tour ended, but she sounded lackluster about the album even before the tour began. I tend to think she never liked it.

I will say that I don't think Stevie hated the whole SYW tour. I think she had a lot of fun on it at first and then they had some kind of fight at the end that soured her -- plus, it was just too long and they were weary. But I don't believe that the whole tour was miserable. I think she had more fun on the tour than in the studio.

As for a tribute song to her mom, maybe she'll surprise me. After all, if
EO17 was for her uncle (in part) maybe she might write something hip for her mother and not give us her version of Circle Dance instead, which is what I imagine and dread in my head. But I am rather pleased with Soldier's Angel, so maybe I should have a little trust. Heck, if they'd just polish Twisted up and do that live (along with, yes, a couple of BN songs), I'd probably quickly get over not having fresh material.

Michele

Thanks for that quote.

I agree about the touring. If you have wanderlust, there's always the excitement of moving on to another place that would definitely balance out negative stuff.

Man, it would be cool to hear them do Twisted!

You get a very clear sense of Stevie's dissatisfaction with how her music was turning out in the Destiny Rules documentary where they work on Thrown Down.... and in one of the webcam/"hidden"camera sections she's talking to Mick and she's saying how if, when she hears the produced versions of her songs played back to her, she doesn't feel the same excitement about the song that she felt when she was just sitting by herself playing it on the piano to nobody, then she just doesn't even care about it anymore...and it was clear she was talking about Thrown Down specifically and probably several of her other songs as well overall.

I know the clip you're referring to, but in the documentary it was never clear that she ended up disliking the album. In fact, I assumed from watching it that they had hashed everything out and were very pleased with the end result, besides Lindsey wishing it had been a full double album. But, Stevie being the businesswoman that she is, knew she had to get on board to promote it by that point, so I guess she sucked it up and did just that.

I love the album, so I don't get all the hullabaloo about her songs being "ruined". :)

[kenzo]

Lindsey wrote the music, Stevie the lyrics...I wouldn't really say "she GAVE that to him" (at least not in the sense that she GAVE Fleetwood Mac the lyrics to "The Chain")
...

IIRC Lindsey wrote mainly the instrumental bridge for Frozen Love, but worked so hard and for so long on it that Stevie felt he deserved a co-credit. I'll edit this post if I can find any backup for my feeble memory...

[elle]

IIRC Lindsey wrote mainly the instrumental bridge for Frozen Love, but worked so hard and for so long on it that Stevie felt he deserved a co-credit. I'll edit this post if I can find any backup for my feeble memory...

:lol: you mean the thing that got them invited to join FM? :p

[kenzo]

:lol: you mean the thing that got them invited to join FM? :p

Yes, that track.

[bombaysaffires]

IIRC Lindsey wrote mainly the instrumental bridge for Frozen Love, but worked so hard and for so long on it that Stevie felt he deserved a co-credit. I'll edit this post if I can find any backup for my feeble memory...

I've got that interview on cassette somewhere.... she says she wrote the lyrics and melody "but Lindsey wrote the middle part...the whole beautiful middle part" so she gave him half credit for the song.

[AliceLover]

Since Stevie is of the opinion that records don't sell anymore and that fans don't really want to hear new songs on tour, I would think a new record is a pipe dream.

She also gets very impatient with Lindsey's pace in the studio. I think she wants to hit the road and get the money. A new record isn't going to sell more tickets when the majority of people in the seats want to hear Rumours.

If this were 2007-2008, I would absolutely agree with you. However, after seeing Stevie last week I really do think her view has changed. Her comments have been extremely strong in the sense that shes bored with the hits. I quote, "I can't keep doing these greatest hits shows or I am going to go crazy." This new album has seriously invigorated her in ways I never thought it would.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Stevie loved Lindsey's last album. She ranted and raved in interviews about Seeds We Sow which hinted towards a future collaboration. I think even Stevie has seen a development in Lindsey as of late.

Maybe Stevie will call Dave Stewart when she hears about the new material? If thats the case, I bet he would be all over it.

For me, its a win-win, if Stevie isn't interested we have enough songs for a new Lindsey album with John and Mick backing! :woohoo:

[louielouie2000]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Stevie loved Lindsey's last album. She ranted and raved in interviews about Seeds We Sow which hinted towards a future collaboration. I think even Stevie has seen a development in Lindsey as of late.

Not only that, she recently collaborated with Lindsey for the first time ever on one of her solo albums, on a song that clearly meant the world to Stevie. And she seems like she couldn't be more pleased with the results. Combine that with her admiration for Lindsey's latest solo work (something she's also never publicly done), and she seems favorable towards working on new material with Lindsey. But we all know how quickly things change with these folks...

Maybe Stevie will call Dave Stewart when she hears about the new material? If thats the case, I bet he would be all over it.

While I think Dave did a tremendous job with Stevie's album, the more time passes, the less sure I am about him being the right producer for the Mac. I just can't see Lindsey appreciating his highly polished, radio friendly sound. Lindsey doesn't like to have all the grit polished out of his work... he likes some sharp edges. I tend to think he'd gravitate towards someone a bit edgier.

[KarmaContestant]

Therefore I'm 99% convinced there is not enough time for them to write, record, produce, mix & label shop and then distribute & market this new music (EP) before any tour! Plus add in all the logistical nightmares as well as lawyers & managers involved to just make this little EP happen - I'm not holding my breath! Remember Mick's words "I think some of that should see the light of day" -not exactly a confident endorsement.

Sort of pathetic when you consider they started and finished the 1975 Fleetwood Mac album in 10 days.
I don't know why these people can't just show up, get it done and move forward.

[michelej1]

For me, its a win-win, if Stevie isn't interested we have enough songs for a new Lindsey album with John and Mick backing! :woohoo:

I don't know if John was on those tracks though. Still, if things don't work out with the Mac, we definitely have a Lindsey album there.

Michele

[elle]

loved reading these 2 posts:

Another thing to keep in mind is that Stevie loved Lindsey's last album. She ranted and raved in interviews about Seeds We Sow which hinted towards a future collaboration. I think even Stevie has seen a development in Lindsey as of late.

Maybe Stevie will call Dave Stewart when she hears about the new material? If thats the case, I bet he would be all over it.

For me, its a win-win, if Stevie isn't interested we have enough songs for a new Lindsey album with John and Mick backing! :woohoo:

exactly!! :thumbsup:

Not only that, she recently collaborated with Lindsey for the first time ever on one of her solo albums, on a song that clearly meant the world to Stevie. And she seems like she couldn't be more pleased with the results. Combine that with her admiration for Lindsey's latest solo work (something she's also never publicly done), and she seems favorable towards working on new material with Lindsey. But we all know how quickly things change with these folks...

While I think Dave did a tremendous job with Stevie's album, the more time passes, the less sure I am about him being the right producer for the Mac. I just can't see Lindsey appreciating his highly polished, radio friendly sound. Lindsey doesn't like to have all the grit polished out of his work... he likes some sharp edges. I tend to think he'd gravitate towards someone a bit edgier.

i may be wrong, but i think it has been said about Dave that he is somewhat of a chameleon when it comes to producing and that he likes to go with artists' instincts and wishes. he produced SA too, correct? so he might still be a possibility in my mind.

i agree that Lindsey has been going mostly in rougher and edgier direction, with less production - and getting stuff done fast. hope he continues in the same vein (seems to be, at least as far as the speed goes!).

[HejiraNYC]

While I think Dave did a tremendous job with Stevie's album, the more time passes, the less sure I am about him being the right producer for the Mac. I just can't see Lindsey appreciating his highly polished, radio friendly sound. Lindsey doesn't like to have all the grit polished out of his work... he likes some sharp edges. I tend to think he'd gravitate towards someone a bit edgier.

Well, I think "Soldier's Angel" is full of jagged edges and imperfections. And songs like "Wide Sargasso Sea" and "Cheaper than Free" are almost shockingly sparse. I personally really appreciate Dave Stewart's instincts and his willingness to work within the context of the song itself vs. a master plan. If anything, I think Dave would be the one to rein in Lindsey's tendency to overthink things in the studio and would be the catalyst for moving things along more quickly.

[elle]

he produced SA too, correct?

Well, I think "Soldier's Angel" is full of jagged edges and imperfections.

:thumbsup: ha, we think the same way, for once! ;) :angel:

LB + SN + DS combination might work. and if it does there's a chance to get something relatively fast, as long as they don't decide to shop it around but just put it out once they are done.

[CADreaming]

^I can't locate the quote now, but in all her IYD press, might have even been a radio interview, Stevie said Lindsey really produced SA.

I wonder if that "calling card" Mick mentioned is part of the hold up too. Last we heard, they dont have a record deal. There could be some business issues delaying the process. Stevie may not be on board yet for other reasons that are totally financial and less emotional - or concern about quibbling over production. I'm not sure the $ is there for this bunch unless they are able go major? Thinking back to the DR doc, she asked LB if he was thinking Interscope and in the end he said they went with WB because they gave a bigger advance.

Still wondering if Vivendi/UMG are going to figure in this deal...

[HejiraNYC]

Well, Lindsey is not really given production credit on anywhere IYD. Plus I do recall Dave Stewart's 2010 tweets stating that he was recording Lindsey and Stevie singing together at her house. I think Stevie implied that ultimately it was Lindsey's guitar playing that really saved the song.

I also think the "calling card" terminology is a bit questionable. I think it implies that they just have some thumbnails/ideas for what a new FM album would sound like, as opposed to some mature, fleshed out tracks with vocals. As such, I am not getting my hopes up that anything will come of them. If FM delayed the tour until, say, June 2013, then I think the potential for new music would be a possibility. But for the time being they are attached to this antiquated notion that their tours have to always start in March. As it stands now, at best, I think a new Lindsey solo album following the FM tour may be likely.

^I can't locate the quote now, but in all her IYD press, might have even been a radio interview, Stevie said Lindsey really produced SA.

I wonder if that "calling card" Mick mentioned is part of the hold up too. Last we heard, they dont have a record deal. There could be some business issues delaying the process. Stevie may not be on board yet for other reasons that are totally financial and less emotional - or concern about quibbling over production. I'm not sure the $ is there for this bunch unless they are able go major? Thinking back to the DR doc, she asked LB if he was thinking Interscope and in the end he said they went with WB because they gave a bigger advance.

Still wondering if Vivendi/UMG are going to figure in this deal...

[HejiraNYC]

Upon further reflection, given both Lindsey's and Stevie's current aversion to "greatest hits" touring, I don't think it is entirely out of the question that they could be plotting some kind of a follow up to The Dance- a live album featuring new songs that they could complete fairly quickly and inexpensively. It has been almost 10 years since the last FM live album, and the novelty this time would be the fact that a number of Christine's songs could be adapted for Stevie and Lindsey, e.g., "Say You Love Me." Throw in five or six new songs, and it becomes a package that appeals to the diehard fan as well as the casual fan who vaguely recalls hearing "Go Your Own Way" on the radio. If I recall correctly, The Dance was recorded/filmed in May and released in August- about three months. So theoretically, they could start rehearsals in January, start touring in March with new songs in the set, compile select performances into a live album, and distribute a live album via iTunes by April or May. Given the fact that they have done something similar to this on their previous live albums, I don't think this is terribly outside of the realm of possibility.

Although I would personally prefer a full new studio album, I think I would still be thrilled if they did something like this.

[FM77]

Putting out a live album like that would be more of a shameful money grab than the tour itself unless there were different songs on it from BN or Tusk et...plus Lindsey and Stevie aren't going to sing McVie songs and give up publishing for their own songs that could have been in her slot. Trust me, they ain't that generous.

[michelej1]

Well, Lindsey is not really given production credit on anywhere IYD. Plus I do recall Dave Stewart's 2010 tweets stating that he was recording Lindsey and Stevie singing together at her house. I think Stevie implied that ultimately it was Lindsey's guitar playing that really saved the song.



Stevie said it was just her and Lindsey for 2 days. She specifically said "No Dave." I don't know what she meant. She could have meant that Lindsey was the only player loving her when he was playing, not that Dave wasn't ultimately producing and splicing together the takes that he wanted after the fact.

Michele

[elle]

Stevie said it was just her and Lindsey for 2 days. She specifically said "No Dave." I don't know what she meant. She could have meant that Lindsey was the only player loving her when he was playing, not that Dave wasn't ultimately producing and splicing together the takes that he wanted after the fact.

as someone already mentioned, Dave was definitely physically there with them (at least several days). at the time, we wouldn't even know that they were recording a song together if it weren't for Dave's tweets.

[michelej1]

Yeah, I didn't say he wasn't there.

"He had a great time. And he got to be very creative. And it's just he and I -- there's no Dave, there's no other players, it's just me and Lindsey. And I really think that he saved the day on that. In his dedication on the record, it says, 'Had it not been for Lindsey Buckingham, 'Soldier's Angel' would not have made this record and that would've been a tragedy.' So it's terrific, because I think that song really, really brought me and Lindsey back together. And he said to me as he was leaving that second day, 'Y'know, I feel like we're closer than we've been in 30 years.' And I would not, I would not mess with that for anything. I would not want that to change."

[elle]

Yeah, I didn't say he wasn't there.

ah yeah, thanks for the quote. i remember that but never paid attention to the exact wording. i won't even try to decipher mysterious ways of SN expression - same as when Lindsey was saying how they "spent a lot of time together... at least more than we have in a long time" or something like that. :shrug: either way, i'm happy for them that they are getting along.

[MacShadowsBall]

I like HejiraNYC's idea of a live album with new tracks. All in all this is very exciting for me, although I don't really have anything intelligent to add! :lol:

[HejiraNYC]

Putting out a live album like that would be more of a shameful money grab than the tour itself unless there were different songs on it from BN or Tusk et...plus Lindsey and Stevie aren't going to sing McVie songs and give up publishing for their own songs that could have been in her slot. Trust me, they ain't that generous.

Sadly, unless your name is Adele or Katy Perry, there is no such thing as a "cash grab" anymore when it comes to releasing new recordings. No matter what, Fleetwood Mac will not be making any money. At best, a new recording would merely provide a credible excuse to embark on a major "money grabbing" tour.

[CADreaming]

^Yep, touring is where the money is. Why do you think all these veteran artists are hitting the road again? The old royalty check ain't what it used to be...

[ButterCookie]

^Yep, touring is where the money is. Why do you think all these veteran artists are hitting the road again? The old royalty check ain't what it used to be...

Unless you have writing credits for the songs being played on the TV all the time, still. :p

[FM77]

Sadly, unless your name is Adele or Katy Perry, there is no such thing as a "cash grab" anymore when it comes to releasing new recordings. No matter what, Fleetwood Mac will not be making any money. At best, a new recording would merely provide a credible excuse to embark on a major "money grabbing" tour.

Which is why there is no point whatsoever to do a live album. The have re-packaged Rumours to death.

[bombaysaffires]

Which is why there is no point whatsoever to do a live album. The have re-packaged Rumours to death.

Indeed. It's as if they'd never recorded another album after that. At this rate, they might as well not have.

[elle]

Unless you have writing credits for the songs being played on the TV all the time, still. :p

:laugh::laugh:

and you keep selling the same song to everybody under the sun... twizzlers, toyota, geico ;)

(not that i mind, as long as he has ways to make money and finance his fabulous solo stuff it's all good to me)

[elle]

Which is why there is no point whatsoever to do a live album. The have re-packaged Rumours to death.

hmm.... why do you assume the worst?

they can do what Lindsey did with Small Machine - a third of new songs, a third of hits, a third of deeper cuts. Small Machine is Lindsey's best live album by far, imo.

and if they seriously decide on it, they should be able to put it out just as fast - he recorded it end of April and had it out i think October 1st.

[CADreaming]

^And/or something Buckingham Nicks, please. :)

[MikeInNV]

Maybe they could meld their songs about her mother together in the first-ever Buckingham-Nicks (or Nicks-Buckingham) co-write.


No..."Frozen Love" was a Buckingham-Nicks co-write. :nod:

What about "Book of Miracles"?

[MikeInNV]

She didn't like SYW or she didn't like how long it took and had a bad taste in her mouth over some other argument they never specified publicly?

As for why they didn't get along on SYW, whatever happened when she was in Hawaii, I'm quite sure she didn't like the way her songs sounded either, on top of everything else.


I thought Lindsey re-sequenced SYW (and possibly made other tweaks) while the rest of them were in Hawaii, and that led to a big fight. I seem to recall Stevie making a comment about Lindsey front-loading the album with the really off-the-wall stuff (presumably tracks like "Murrow" and "Illume").

[bombaysaffires]

I thought Lindsey re-sequenced SYW (and possibly made other tweaks) while the rest of them were in Hawaii, and that led to a big fight. I seem to recall Stevie making a comment about Lindsey front-loading the album with the really off-the-wall stuff (presumably tracks like "Murrow" and "Illume").

"I hear the islands calling
I hear angry words
Flying across the ocean
Like some seabirds... never stopping
I feel my blood racing
Can't believe what you are saying
I used to love you so much"

I've always wondered just what it was he said....

[Etisl]

Exciting. I would love for the band to put out a new cd, or EP (prefer full CD though.) I only wish they would bring in a new producer and a great audio engineer. Lindsey and Stevie ofcourse have no shortage of new songs.......

But, as much as I love Lindsey Buckingham.....in my opinion "Say You Will" sounded like a Lindsey solo record, with special guest Stevie Nicks. It didn't mesh...the way it should have. It was 90% Lindsey style/sound, and 10% Stevie's style/sound. Great songs that could have done very well commercially had they been produced and mixed for todays radio. Stevie's demos for the songs on Say You will actually sounded better than the finished product...atleast from what they played on the Destiny Rules documentary.

[MrStevie]

Exciting. I would love for the band to put out a new cd, or EP (prefer full CD though.) I only wish they would bring in a new producer and a great audio engineer. Lindsey and Stevie ofcourse have no shortage of new songs.......

But, as much as I love Lindsey Buckingham.....in my opinion "Say You Will" sounded like a Lindsey solo record, with special guest Stevie Nicks. It didn't mesh...the way it should have. It was 90% Lindsey style/sound, and 10% Stevie's style/sound. Great songs that could have done very well commercially had they been produced and mixed for todays radio. Stevie's demos for the songs on Say You will actually sounded better than the finished product...atleast from what they played on the Destiny Rules documentary.

Ridiculous.

:shocked:

[jbrownsjr]

Exciting. I would love for the band to put out a new cd, or EP (prefer full CD though.) I only wish they would bring in a new producer and a great audio engineer. Lindsey and Stevie ofcourse have no shortage of new songs.......

But, as much as I love Lindsey Buckingham.....in my opinion "Say You Will" sounded like a Lindsey solo record, with special guest Stevie Nicks. It didn't mesh...the way it should have. It was 90% Lindsey style/sound, and 10% Stevie's style/sound. Great songs that could have done very well commercially had they been produced and mixed for todays radio. Stevie's demos for the songs on Say You will actually sounded better than the finished product...atleast from what they played on the Destiny Rules documentary.

Agreed. SYW is a mess.

[TrueFaith77]

It's very common for bands to release an EP prior to releasing an album (which inclues EP tracks in part or in total). So maybe the EP could come out BEFORE the tour. Then time off to put together the album proper and then another tour.

Exciting. I would love for the band to put out a new cd, or EP (prefer full CD though.) I only wish they would bring in a new producer and a great audio engineer. Lindsey and Stevie ofcourse have no shortage of new songs.......

EXACTLY! No wonder Mick is so frustrated with these two!?!

But, as much as I love Lindsey Buckingham.....in my opinion "Say You Will" sounded like a Lindsey solo record, with special guest Stevie Nicks. It didn't mesh...the way it should have. It was 90% Lindsey style/sound, and 10% Stevie's style/sound. Great songs that could have done very well commercially had they been produced and mixed for todays radio. Stevie's demos for the songs on Say You will actually sounded better than the finished product...atleast from what they played on the Destiny Rules documentary.

Ridiculous.

:shocked:

That flute had to go!! And imagine those songs without Lindsey's guitar! Destiny Rules alone is better than any solo stevie song with the exception of Edge of Seventeen--and just for Lindsey's Johnny Marr playing.

[sodascouts]

Of course, it's all subjective. I think Lindsey did a great job with Running Through the Garden. He gave it a more modern sound and terrific guitar solo. However, on the other hand, he took the teeth out of Smile At You and made a fierce rocker into a boring adult contemporary snoozer. It's hit and miss.

[APerfectLie]

I've looked everywhere and I haven't seen a mention of this interview yet. Maybe I am blind?

"Ken said he then asked Christine why she wasn't playing anymore and she said she gets bored, her hands play the same things etc. He then went on to tell Michael that he produced Christine's last solo album (In The Meantime) back in 2005 and that he still has the tracks from that, and that there are 4 or 5 tracks off the album that were never used... So when he was talking to Mick, Ken suggested that the band replace the parts on the tracks with Bass parts by John, Guitar by Lindsey and Drums with Mick... and get Stevie and Lindsey on the background tracks... and that would be the first Fleetwood Mac group song(s)! Christine would love to do it said Ken... Mick said it was a good idea, but the problem is getting everyone to agree to it, and Ken just left it at that..."

http://nickslive.blogspot.com/2012/07/michael-shelley-interview-with.html

[michelej1]

"Ken said he then asked Christine why she wasn't playing anymore and she said she gets bored, her hands play the same things etc. He then went on to tell Michael that he produced Christine's last solo album (In The Meantime) back in 2005 and that he still has the tracks from that, and that there are 4 or 5 tracks off the album that were never used... So when he was talking to Mick, Ken suggested that the band replace the parts on the tracks with Bass parts by John, Guitar by Lindsey and Drums with Mick... and get Stevie and Lindsey on the background tracks... and that would be the first Fleetwood Mac group song(s)! Christine would love to do it said Ken... Mick said it was a good idea, but the problem is getting everyone to agree to it, and Ken just left it at that..."

http://nickslive.blogspot.com/2012/07/michael-shelley-interview-with.html

I'd rather they produced a song with Christine, rather than putting FM members on pre-existing tracks.

Michele

[elle]

And imagine those songs without Lindsey's guitar! Destiny Rules alone is better than any solo stevie song with the exception of Edge of Seventeen--and just for Lindsey's Johnny Marr playing.

so with you on Lindsey's DR guitar parts!! they make the song - just gorgeous :thumbsup::]

[Fannymac]

Remember when they recorded the white album in four months?!?:D

There are some holes here....I sure can't see Stevie just going in and adding backing vocals to eight of Lindsey's songs.....they would have to do an equal number of her's, or close to it!
And everyone seemed to pretty much be in agreement....if there was a new album. it would be with an outside producer.

I don't think finding a label would be a problem,,,,,I'm sure Interscope (among others!) would be happy to have them! At the same time, no one ~ band or label ~ is going to want to just toss it out there, particularly A) the first release for a new label, and B) the album that could be their swan song!

This is promising....but I don't think we'll see anything in 2013!

[TrueFaith77]

Outside Producer: Andrew Dawson. He's young and fresh--an engineer on Kanye albums (for which he's won 3 grammys) and on the new fun. album. In order to get that "California sound"--the Pet Shop Boys employed him to produce their new album Elysium.

[holidayroad]

But, as much as I love Lindsey Buckingham.....in my opinion "Say You Will" sounded like a Lindsey solo record, with special guest Stevie Nicks. It didn't mesh...the way it should have. It was 90% Lindsey style/sound, and 10% Stevie's style/sound. Great songs that could have done very well commercially had they been produced and mixed for todays radio. Stevie's demos for the songs on Say You will actually sounded better than the finished product...atleast from what they played on the Destiny Rules documentary.

This is why Stevie can't just walk in the studio after everyone else has been working on the album for months. If she wants an album to have 50% of her sound, then she should be there for at least 50% of the making of the album.

[jbrownsjr]

I'd rather they produced a song with Christine, rather than putting FM members on pre-existing tracks.

Michele

I still don't ever see this happening. I don't see her flying out here to Los Angeles, and/or I don't see LB flying over there to record... I seriously don't see Lindsey ever letting FM strip down one of her tunes and building it back up with FMac on it.

I just don't see Linsdey doing that.

[jbrownsjr]

This is why Stevie can't just walk in the studio after everyone else has been working on the album for months. If she wants an album to have 50% of her sound, then she should be there for at least 50% of the making of the album.

Hence Tango In The Night...

[michelej1]

I seriously don't see Lindsey ever letting FM strip down one of her tunes and building it back up with FMac on it.

I just don't see Linsdey doing that.

I wouldn't want it anyway. I don't think it was that great a suggestion from Caillat.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

I wouldn't want it anyway. I don't think it was that great a suggestion from Caillat.

Michele

I concur logically and artistically; however, I know my desperation for the fab 5 would turn a blind eye to it all. I miss you Chris! :(

[michelej1]

I concur logically and artistically; however, I know my desperation for the fab 5 would turn a blind eye to it all. I miss you Chris! :(

I want them together at least one more time too, but this wouldn't be having them together to me. At least with something like SYHA we can imagine Christine, John, Lindsey and Mick in the studio, even though we don't have any pictures or footage.

In this scenario, trading tapes across the ocean is just empty. Unless Mick described some really groovy phone calls they might have had with each other. But look, the Mac has to go to England at some point, so there are opportunities for something.

If that fails, someone must have taken a picture when Christine went to the Unleashed tour. There is a snap shot of her with some, if not all, of them. Just leak that to us you anonymous person out there. We'd eat it up.

Michele

[BombaySapphire3]

I concur logically and artistically; however, I know my desperation for the fab 5 would turn a blind eye to it all. I miss you Chris! :(

Well, I'm the one, I know where you're comin' fromI'm the one you miss, baby, I'm the one

CHRISTINE MCVIE -:o

[Etisl]

This is why Stevie can't just walk in the studio after everyone else has been working on the album for months. If she wants an album to have 50% of her sound, then she should be there for at least 50% of the making of the album.

Well.... you do bring a valid point. I think the band started to stray from their sound a bit....during Tango In The Night...........Stevie is and will always be my favorite, but my friend.........you make a true and valid point. She can't complain if she is not there to give her feedback. :distress:

[MikeInNV]

Well.... you do bring a valid point. I think the band started to stray from their sound a bit....during Tango In The Night...........Stevie is and will always be my favorite, but my friend.........you make a true and valid point. She can't complain if she is not there to give her feedback. :distress:

It's a valid point, but on the other hand the band has always been happy to take advantage of the fact that Stevie isn't needed in the studio all the time. When the time came to make Tango, everyone but John was coming off solo projects. Tango couldn't be made until Mick, Chris, and Lindsey were all available, but they knew they could get started even while Stevie was on the RAL tour. The same thing happened when they began making SYW while Stevie was touring to support TISL. Nothing wrong with that approach I suppose, but if you are going to work around everyone's schedule but hers, it doesn't seem right to then complain about her absence, which they did a time or two.

[Josh2003]

Unfortunately for Stevie, that's where she can't have it both ways. Either she has to be there in the studio the whole time, giving her input on what the guys are doing (and I think that should include on LB's tracks too, to his chagrin, I'm sure...he may have written them, but at the end of the day, they will be FLEETWOOD MAC songs) and hopefully the end result is a cohesive album that she can be proud of.....OR......she can come into the studio when she's available (as she did for Tango and, to a lesser extent, SYW), but have to live with the fact that the band is making decisions on songs (both hers and Lindsey's) that she might not be totally happy with.

[APerfectLie]

Unfortunately for Stevie, that's where she can't have it both ways. Either she has to be there in the studio the whole time, giving her input on what the guys are doing (and I think that should include on LB's tracks too, to his chagrin, I'm sure...he may have written them, but at the end of the day, they will be FLEETWOOD MAC songs) and hopefully the end result is a cohesive album that she can be proud of.....OR......she can come into the studio when she's available (as she did for Tango and, to a lesser extent, SYW), but have to live with the fact that the band is making decisions on songs (both hers and Lindsey's) that she might not be totally happy with.

She needs a reason to be in the studio everyday. How about she produce the next Fleetwood Mac album?? I'd love to see what she does with Lindsey's songs XD. It'd either be a masterpiece or a complete failure, but what do they really have to lose? Hell, make a Stevie produced 6 song EP and release it on iTunes. It'd sure give them something to talk about in interviews other than Rumours and drugs.

[jbrownsjr]

I want them together at least one more time too, but this wouldn't be having them together to me. At least with something like SYHA we can imagine Christine, John, Lindsey and Mick in the studio, even though we don't have any pictures or footage.

In this scenario, trading tapes across the ocean is just empty. Unless Mick described some really groovy phone calls they might have had with each other. But look, the Mac has to go to England at some point, so there are opportunities for something.

If that fails, someone must have taken a picture when Christine went to the Unleashed tour. There is a snap shot of her with some, if not all, of them. Just leak that to us you anonymous person out there. We'd eat it up.

Michele

You've always had more will-power than I! :lol:

[TrueFaith77]

I don't see why it seems empty to trade tapes across the ocean. Producers and musicians do this all the time these days via computer. Are those releases inherently empty? Do I need to (or ever) imagine people playing in a studio together in order to enjoy the music? Does it hinder my enjoyment of SYW that I know Stevie added vocals to all-but-canned tracks? No. I mean, if Christine sent some music to Lindsey to produce and play on and they interacted via skype and email for a month, would ANYONE here not be ecstatic to hear the results? It's the same thing to me.

[michelej1]

I don't see why it seems empty to trade tapes across the ocean. Producers and musicians do this all the time these days via computer. Are those releases inherently empty? Do I need to (or ever) imagine people playing in a studio together in order to enjoy the music? Does it hinder my enjoyment of SYW that I know Stevie added vocals to all-but-canned tracks? No. I mean, if Christine sent some music to Lindsey to produce and play on and they interacted via skype and email for a month, would ANYONE here not be ecstatic to hear the results? It's the same thing to me.

IF Fleetwoodmac Mac is going to produce it. Take a demo of hers and produce it from scratch. Don't take an 8 year old recording and add new tracks to it, which was the suggestion. They can do that as a tribute if one of them dies (like Natalie Cole)p singing on her dad's songs), but if she is still alive, I really don't see the point of doing that. Michele

[BombaySapphire3]

I'll bet if the band offered to travel to England to record one last album they might be able to convince Chris to participate.It would also force Stevie to be present like she was when the basic tracks for Mirage were laid down in France for 6 weeks.Mick's argument that Chris would not be on tour to perform any 'hits" she might have from said album is silly at this point.I for one would be so grateful that I would not sit out the tour like I did for "unleashed'.

[WeepingWall]

I agree that it just sounds kind of cheap to take old tracks that apparently weren't good enough for a mediocre, at best, solo album (not to offend any who liked it). And it does hinder my enjoyment of Say You Will knowing that Stevie is just singing over finished songs. Lindsey's songs would have a made a better solo album, and SYW ends up sounding confused, overstuffed, and patched together. This idea sounds like a great one for possibly leading to something better, like actually having Christine contribute something new to a new album.

[CADreaming]

I don't understand the train of thought on singing over demos or so-called finished songs. Basically, that's all they ever do. Stevie brought in new "demos" to SYW, not necessarily new songs.

These are songwriters. They write a bunch of songs. They pull them out and work on them and decide if they think it's more suited for FM or to use for their solo projects or maybe to just keep them in the song vault. It's not some song conspiracy to keep the "best" songs for themselves. They probably get tickled if the other one says, "Hey, I really like that one. Can we try it with me singing on it?" Then, if they don't end up liking it's not that big of a deal (most of the time), they just move on to another song.

Lindsey is the great tweaker. It's what he does, it's how he produces, whether it's his stuff or "Fleetwood Mac", including the songs Stevie brings him.

[michelej1]

I don't understand the train of thought on singing over demos or so-called finished songs. Basically, that's all they ever do. Stevie brought in new "demos" to SYW, not necessarily new songs.


They don't just record over the demo though. They record new vocals of the song, new everything. They don't just swap in a couple of new tracks over what's already laid down there. It's fine if they have some old songs of Christine's that they want to produce. But taking some old recordings of Christine's and singing over them doesn't sound that good to me. It sounds like a travesty. If they want to lay something on some pre-existing tracks, why don't they dig Butter Cookie out of a vault and do it with that.

After reading Ken's book and the way a song evolves over many, many takes and they brain storm off of each other and come up with new ideas, I think even if Stevie and Lindsey were just adding harmonies, they need to add harmonies to a new Christine vocal. They might have ideas that might make her want to change the song in some way (i.e. Stevie throwing in her contribution to Oh Daddy) and make it better. Find a song of hers that they like and produce it from scratch, rather than Lindsey just saying, "Well, I'll take out Dan's guitar track and put in mine."

If she dies, then by all means record over her pre-existing tracks, to be an artificial trio once again. But as long as they're alive and can still play and sing, then play and sing.

Michele

[michelej1]

Of course, this makes me think that Lindsey did sing new vocals for his GOS songs that were placed on SYW and most people didn't think it was an improvement. They liked his old track best.

Doesn't really make me much difference, except for Miranda. I like the SYW version of that song. Love it.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Talk of Christine being dead is making me sad. :(

Bob Welch was enough for the next 20 years.

[CADreaming]

^^Oh, I wasn't referring to any new Christine music, specifically - just a general commentary on how they work.

I think Lindsey works a long time on the music and then Stevie gives her input and the others of course and what we get is what they are most pleased with. I am happy with their decision for whatever reasons and have to believe in it from the stand point of it being a "finished" work. It reminds of Lindsey in some recent interview being asked about fans having demos - he said something to the effect of "there's a reason they are still demos", meaning they just weren't meant for anyone to hear yet. Unfinished. I enjoy listening to demos but for what they are - rudimentary beginnings of a song.

So the SYW argument tires me. It was a completed Fleetwood Mac project. I loved it. I love the demos. But, I don't love the demos better than the completed project they presented to us.

[michelej1]

Bob Welch was enough for the next 20 years.

Yeah, I just meant that felt like what we were discussing was a tribute gesture.

As for death, that's ok, but I hope I would never hear what I heard about Bob about any of the artists I enjoy. That was just devastating. I was a Sonny Bono fan and even Sonny skiing into a tree didn't feel like that. I hope none of them are in such emotional pain.

Michele

[michelej1]

So the SYW argument tires me. It was a completed Fleetwood Mac project. I loved it. I love the demos. But, I don't love the demos better than the completed project they presented to us.

Yes, I think demos are demos. I like to hear them, but usually I imagine their potential. I don't revel in the demo-ness.

As for SYW, at this point the critique that it just sounds like two solo albums smashed together is too easy to make and I think a lazy way to discuss whatever failings it has.

Michele

[Macfanforever]

Wow. thats great news to start.8 tunes EP could explode to 15 tunes for a complete album.Get Stevie's and Lindsey's song writing machine in gear and we will have a complete album.

[Etisl]

I just feel Stevie tends to back down when Lindsey is around.....she wants to push him out there to be the Fleetwood Mac .."Rock Star"...since the attention normally always goes to her.....I hate to say it, but it is almost like her just being nice to him. But, he does seem to have some control over her.

Remember that black button up simple top and skirt during the Say You Will tour....that was because Lindsey didn't want her to be so flashy and she said he asked her to tone it down...... Part of the same reason she asked fans to not bring gifts for her to FM shows........

During interviews, he speaks.......and she is normally very quite and just sits there. During her solo periods.........she is all laughter and very talkative, it's almost like two different Stevie's. I understand wanting to please the other band members....and all, but the "Flashy" Stevie....is what she gave the fans in the old days...and what we still love about her. Solo VS FM tours..........are two very different Stevie Nicks's.... Just my view.... :shrug::shrug::shrug:

It's like she almost does the Fleetwood Mac projects do make Lindsey happy. After Say You Will and Unleashed...she said what she always does...."I will never do it again!" And then she talks about how unhappy she was making the CD and how unhappy she was touring.......... Ask her about a solo tour.....and "it was magical", "It was the best year of my life", etc, etc, etc.


I Love Fleetwood Mac together....and I still feel if they got a really good producer and audio engineer....they could have an excellent album. Their songs on Say You Will were very good, but just didn't come together they way the could have. ThrownDown for example is a good song, had it been mixed properly .......it could have been a Great song.....

[louielouie2000]

It's like she almost does the Fleetwood Mac projects do make Lindsey happy.

This is the only thing I really disagree with you about. The reason she reconnects with Fleetwood Mac is because she's very aware all the men of the band rely on it for their livelihoods, and that they all have children to support, etc. She probably actually reunites with Fleetwood Mac in spite of Lindsey, not because! :laugh:

[vivfox]

Yes, I think demos are demos. I like to hear them I don't revel in the demo-ness.


In most cases, (not all) I have preferred Stevie's demos because I love hearing her play the piano and sing. With a finished track that same piano is too deep into the mix to stand out in its simplistic beauty.

[AliceLover]

Of course, this makes me think that Lindsey did sing new vocals for his GOS songs that were placed on SYW and most people didn't think it was an improvement. They liked his old track best.Doesn't really make me much difference, except for Miranda. I like the SYW version of that song. Love it.

Michele

Eeeek! Twist of Fate was the casualty here. He should have left that song exactly as it was on the demo!

[AliceLover]

Worse comes to worse:

1. 2013 Fleetwood Mac hits tour aka 5 different songs from the Unleashed tour
2. 2014 continuation of In Yor Dreams Tour from Stevie (I really can't see her doing another album).
3. 2014 Lindsey solo album

[CADreaming]

Yes, I think demos are demos. I like to hear them, but usually I imagine their potential. I don't revel in the demo-ness.

As for SYW, at this point the critique that it just sounds like two solo albums smashed together is too easy to make and I think a lazy way to discuss whatever failings it has.

Michele

Exactly. They worked on that album for practically two years with Lindsey laying the ground work and then working on the other songs Stevie brought in. She was there for a year for crying out loud. If she didn't like the end result that's her bad.

I just feel Stevie tends to back down when Lindsey is around.....she wants to push him out there to be the Fleetwood Mac .."Rock Star"...since the attention normally always goes to her.....I hate to say it, but it is almost like her just being nice to him. But, he does seem to have some control over her.

Remember that black button up simple top and skirt during the Say You Will tour....that was because Lindsey didn't want her to be so flashy and she said he asked her to tone it down...... Part of the same reason she asked fans to not bring gifts for her to FM shows........

During interviews, he speaks.......and she is normally very quite and just sits there. During her solo periods.........she is all laughter and very talkative, it's almost like two different Stevie's. I understand wanting to please the other band members....and all, but the "Flashy" Stevie....is what she gave the fans in the old days...and what we still love about her. Solo VS FM tours..........are two very different Stevie Nicks's.... Just my view.... :shrug::shrug::shrug:

It's like she almost does the Fleetwood Mac projects do make Lindsey happy. After Say You Will and Unleashed...she said what she always does...."I will never do it again!" And then she talks about how unhappy she was making the CD and how unhappy she was touring.......... Ask her about a solo tour.....and "it was magical", "It was the best year of my life", etc, etc, etc.

She never said that after Unleashed. Stevie loves being in a band and she loves being in Fleetwood Mac despite what they call "band politics", the art of compromise. Lindsey has to compromise too, and Mick and John probably have to mostly just put up with whatever they decide to do. It goes with the territory as it does for anyone in a setting where you are working with other people. She's described touring with FM as being so much bigger than anything she does solo - the travel is much better (although she travels pretty nice anyway) and she loves it. But, she refers to Fleetwood Mac as "my band" and that's how she truly sees it. I think she's good. If she didn't enjoy it to some extent she just wouldn't do it.

[shackin'up]

Worse comes to worse:

1. 2013 Fleetwood Mac hits tour aka 5 different songs from the Unleashed tour
2. 2014 continuation of In Yor Dreams Tour from Stevie (I really can't see her doing another album).
3. 2014 Lindsey solo album

I'll be relieved. But John has to fill in bass on the 8 recordings, add three or four acoustic tracks and I'd be happy about a 2014 LB album.

[michelej1]

I don't think continuing with FM is Stevie's big charitable sacrifice to her colleagues and the world. She benefits as much as anyone. It is emotional and exhausting and when she has problems (voice or illness) they are more stressful than when she is solo. It is a bigger stage. More eyes are upon her and more people financially dependent on her band. But it is a bigger paycheck, more attention and she actually has to do less performing with FM than solo. It has always been that way. She can disappear from the stage for 15 or more minutes at a time while Lindsey (and at one time Christine) play on.

There is no FM without Stevie, but that does not mean she is there for altruistic reasons. Michele

[Christopher]

Screw this 8 song EP rumblings. It would seem feasible that a 12 track full album would be easy for Lindsey & Stevie. 5-6 songs a piece should be considered a walk in the park at this point compared to the @14 tracks they record for their respective solo albums. Writing 2-4 new songs on top of considering what they already have in the vault.:shrug:

But alas, nothing is ever that S I M P L E with this cast of characters:cool:!

I agree with the solo alliances! I would rather Stevie and Lindsey record solo albums from here on out, unless they agree as a whole to continue new creativity as a group.

[TrueFaith77]

I would gladly (THOUGH NOT PREFERABLY) buy a fleetwood mac album with just lindsey mick and john.

[mikephxaz]

I would gladly (THOUGH NOT PREFERABLY) buy a fleetwood mac album with just lindsey mick and john.

well, that would be one album sold...:distress:

[elle]

I would gladly (THOUGH NOT PREFERABLY) buy a fleetwood mac album with just lindsey mick and john.

yup, they should do it if Stevie is not feeling it, regardless of Lindsey writing these songs apparently with SN collaboration in mind. having a Men of Mac album would be amazing! :blob2::blob2:

[TrueFaith77]

yup, they should do it if Stevie is not feeling it, regardless of Lindsey writing these songs apparently with SN collaboration in mind. having a Men of Mac album would be amazing! :blob2::blob2:

If the creative juices are flowing for 3/4 members, I just don't see how you can sacrifice the results to 1/4 members.

[chiliD]

I would gladly (THOUGH NOT PREFERABLY) buy a fleetwood mac album with just lindsey mick and john.

well, that would be one album sold...:distress:

Well, you just pissed off about half a million Lindsey Buckingham fans. :laugh:

I know probably 50 people who would JUMP at a Nicks-less Fleetwood Mac album. :nod: And, they'd tell 2 people who'd tell 2 people, and so on, and so on.

[shackin'up]

well, that would be one album sold...:distress:

As long as I'm THE buyer, I couldn't care less. You don't piss LBfans of with this remark, because it's a Pure gift that one can see such à big artist perform for 500 or 600 people. And it's clear, he enjoys that too. So sales ? Irrelevant at this stage of his career.

[elle]

because it's a Pure gift that one can see such à big artist perform for 500 or 600 people. And it's clear, he enjoys that too. So sales ? Irrelevant at this stage of his career.

yes!!:nod::nod: when i stop and think about it, it's such completely unbelievable and amazing gift - what he is giving us during these solo tours in intimate venues! :woohoo::xoxo:

[Spikey]

Well, the point is, if Lindsey's writing all the songs, it's a LB album, not a FM album. I love Lindsey solo, Stevie solo, AND the Mac, but if Stevie's not writing for the Mac anymore then it's Goodnight Sweetheart, that's all she wrote. Let's hope that's wrong.

Still, let's not rain on the parade, 3/4 members writing/recording music together after the better part of a decade is great news! Stevie sounds positive about the music business too, so this is the best chance for a Mac album since SYW, for sure.

[TrueFaith77]

If the entire album is Mick and John rhythm section, it is Fleetwood Mac.

[WeepingWall]

I do think that harmonies are something that have for a long time defined Fleetwood Mac albums. I have no problem with Lindsey making a record with only Mick and John, but if there were not any other singers beside Lindsey, it would be weird for me to think of it as a Mac record. I think it would be more like a Lindsey record. And Mick and John are often on Lindsey's albums. Even Christine!

[shackin'up]

If the entire album is Mick and John rhythm section, it is Fleetwood Mac.

Exactly. Even if no one wrote or sang...:lol:...it'll still be Fleetwood Mac.

[jwd]

I do think that harmonies are something that have for a long time defined Fleetwood Mac albums. I have no problem with Lindsey making a record with only Mick and John, but if there were not any other singers beside Lindsey, it would be weird for me to think of it as a Mac record. I think it would be more like a Lindsey record. And Mick and John are often on Lindsey's albums. Even Christine!

Yes, and as long as Fleetwood Mac has been in existence, it has always had multiple singers and songwriters in the band. Whatever happened to Lindsey wanting to do an album from the ground up, with all members actively participating in the formation of the new songs. Not to mention an outside producer being involved. :shrug:

[Etisl]

This is the only thing I really disagree with you about. The reason she reconnects with Fleetwood Mac is because she's very aware all the men of the band rely on it for their livelihoods, and that they all have children to support, etc. She probably actually reunites with Fleetwood Mac in spite of Lindsey, not because! :laugh:

LOL, good point!!! :)


But, I know all of us fans have speculations....but, when it comes down to it....our Stevie is a stubborn girl, and if she really didn't want to reunite with the band, then she wouldn't do it.

Fleetwood Mac to her would be like saying goodbye to family. They grew to superstardom together, She knows....as Ethereal as she is....she was meant to be in that band. I so wish Christine would come back. When those three sing together.......it is just perfection. They have the perfect instruments to compliment each other, even though they all sound very different. In other words, she knows Fleetwood Mac is a very special thing to her, and she knows how important it is to the fans. I love being able to see Stevie Solo, and Fleetwood Mac together......

We fans, just like Stevie, we like to have the best of both worlds. :]

[SteveMacD]

I do think that harmonies are something that have for a long time defined Fleetwood Mac albums.
Even beyond that, there has NEVER been a Mac album that only had one vocalist.

[billwebster]

8 new songs in the works. These are really good news.

If Interscope likes the project, the outside producer really ought to be labelhead Jimmy Iovine himself. He knows that band from way back in the day.

He would be the man in Stevie's corner during the sessions then. And with the labelhead in your corner, what more can you ask for?

I'd prefer they turn these 8 songs into an album by adding some more. It's completely up to them under which name they are going to release them.
And with their experience in the business, they also know very well when it's best to put them out.

I'm hoping for next year.

[TrueFaith77]

It just hit me. We don't know, do we?, that these 8 songs are all LB-written. Maybe some are Stevie demos that Lindsey/Mick did some work with (as they did on Stevie's stuff for SYW before she arrived)?

That possibility would explain the EP talk.

[michelej1]

Didn't we learn from Destiny Rules that a full album is thought to be 10 songs (in the studio's mind) and after that the band has to pay for any extra cuts on there? So, if they aim for just 10 songs that gives them an easier target.

Michele

[snicksfan85]

Didn't we learn from Destiny Rules that a full album is thought to be 10 songs (in the studio's mind) and after that the band has to pay for any extra cuts on there? So, if they aim for just 10 songs that gives them an easier target.

Michele

They (the band) don't technically "pay". It's called a controlled composition clause and it really only affects artist-songwriters. In essence, it's a cap on how much a songwriter recording their own material can potentially make. They could put 18 or 19 on the album but over a certain amount of tracks (sometimes 10, sometimes 12, it's a contract by contract thing), they don't get paid mechanicals for them. Plus, on top of that, they usually only get a percentage of the 9.1 cents per song anyway. The only time the artist actually having "to pay" comes into issue is when there are songs written by someone else.

Example:
No controlled composition on a 15 track CD from singer/songwriter: 9.1 cents per track, $1.365 in mechanical royalties for every album sold

Same thing as above only now with controlled composition of 75% of statutory rate capped at 10 tracks: 4.8 cents per track, 68.25 cents per album

15 tracks (10 by the artist, 5 covers) with the controlled composition clause: still capped at 68.25 per album but now minus 45.5 cents (9.1 cents full royalty per track for the 5 covers) leaving the artist with 22.75 cents per album because the other person's royalties come out of the singer's part making 2.275 cents per song

And that's just the songwriting mechanical royalties. That's not the actual recording artist royalties which is a whole other mess.

Isn't the recording industry fun?

[snicksfan85]

If they're going to do an EP, we're probably looking at getting 6 tracks, tops. I'm guessing more like 4.

[TrueFaith77]

If they're going to do an EP, we're probably looking at getting 6 tracks, tops. I'm guessing more like 4.

Which could still be folded into a 10+ track album at some point. I think that's the best method: 4-track ep before tour; tour; full album after tour; tour again; retire.

*sigh*

Will anything on the new EP/LP be as great as SYHA, BTLH, RR, TD, DR, EFO?

[HejiraNYC]

If they're going to do an EP, we're probably looking at getting 6 tracks, tops. I'm guessing more like 4.

Is there a precedent for a band of this caliber and vintage to release an EP of original new material in this day and age? The concept of an EP is so dated... practically before the dawn of CDs, when artists/record companies needed a means of releasing material that would not fit on a 45 RPM single, but would also not fill up a full 12" album. It also tended to consist of odds and ends- bonus material that otherwise was not deemed suitable for an album (covers, B-sides, remixes, outtakes, leftovers, live tracks, etc.). I don't recall any *established* artists intentionally setting out to write, record and release an EP. If anything, I think an "EP" is kind of an artistic copout- a way of hastily releasing (often sub-par) material with the mindset that, well, this is not an actual album, so it really doesn't count. This way, if the critics and music buying public reject it, it doesn't really mar the Fleetwood Mac catalog of albums since it was never considered an album in the first place.

But then again... who knows. Maybe Fleetwood Mac will pioneer the concept of digital EPs by established bands that don't really feel like working together, but need some morsel of original new material to justify a lucrative reunion tour.

[michelej1]

They (the band) don't technically "pay". It's called a controlled composition clause and it really only affects



No, I was thinking of something else. They had to pay for the extra SYW tracks and Lindsey planned to reimburse himself for the costs, from the tour proceeds.

Anyway, they don't even have a label anymore, so I guess that is moot. Just scrounge 10 songs up from somewhere and sell them on the FM site. Michele

[snicksfan85]

Is there a precedent for a band of this caliber and vintage to release an EP of original new material in this day and age? The concept of an EP is so dated... practically before the dawn of CDs, when artists/record companies needed a means of releasing material that would not fit on a 45 RPM single, but would also not fill up a full 12" album. It also tended to consist of odds and ends- bonus material that otherwise was not deemed suitable for an album (covers, B-sides, remixes, outtakes, leftovers, live tracks, etc.). I don't recall any *established* artists intentionally setting out to write, record and release an EP. If anything, I think an "EP" is kind of an artistic copout- a way of hastily releasing (often sub-par) material with the mindset that, well, this is not an actual album, so it really doesn't count. This way, if the critics and music buying public reject it, it doesn't really mar the Fleetwood Mac catalog of albums since it was never considered an album in the first place.

But then again... who knows. Maybe Fleetwood Mac will pioneer the concept of digital EPs by established bands that don't really feel like working together, but need some morsel of original new material to justify a lucrative reunion tour.


Do I think it's lazy to just put out an EP and that's it? Yea. But if that's all I'm going to get, I'm going to take it and run with it.

Besides EPs are in right now, especially for acts that haven't released anything in a while or need something quickly to release for promotional purposes. And in this case, both of those apply to the Mac.

By the way, I love the new Mavericks EP.

[HejiraNYC]

Do I think it's lazy to just put out an EP and that's it? Yea. But if that's all I'm going to get, I'm going to take it and run with it.

Besides EPs are in right now, especially for acts that haven't released anything in a while or need something quickly to release for promotional purposes. And in this case, both of those apply to the Mac.

By the way, I love the new Mavericks EP.

Well, EPs are generally not lazy in terms of length, but in terms of quality. I have CD "EPs" that are an hour in length! I suspect there is a temptation not to try as hard when you're just pushing out a few songs.

In the case of the Mavericks EP (I'm SO happy they are back together!), those are all songs from their upcoming album. So, again, it's not quite the same as releasing a small batch of all-new original songs; that EP is more of a teaser/promotional tool. Now what would be interesting AND fit under the category of "odds and ends" suitable for an EP is if Fleetwood Mac covers itself- re-recording a handful of pre-Rumours songs! I would be very interested in something like that interspersed with a handful of new songs.

[snicksfan85]

No, I was thinking of something else. They had to pay for the extra SYW tracks and Lindsey planned to reimburse himself for the costs, from the tour proceeds.

Anyway, they don't even have a label anymore, so I guess that is moot. Just scrounge 10 songs up from somewhere and sell them on the FM site. Michele

There were two talks about money: one about the controlled composition (double album, tracks over the 10) and one for production costs (extra days with the engineers, more songs mixed). I think he paid for the two engineers they tested out out of his pocket but I'd have to go back and watch it.


Well, EPs are generally not lazy in terms of length, but in terms of quality. I have CD "EPs" that are an hour in length! I suspect there is a temptation not to try as hard when you're just pushing out a few songs.

In the case of the Mavericks EP (I'm SO happy they are back together!), those are all songs from their upcoming album. So, again, it's not quite the same as releasing a small batch of all-new original songs; that EP is more of a teaser/promotional tool. Now what would be interesting AND fit under the category of "odds and ends" suitable for an EP is if Fleetwood Mac covers itself- re-recording a handful of pre-Rumours songs! I would be very interested in something like that interspersed with a handful of new songs.

I wasn't saying EPs were lazy. I was just saying for the Mac it was lazy. Their stuff is all going to be "new" (depending on what demos are in circulation) on it, just like the Mavericks. But unlike the Mavericks, I don't think it's going to roll into an album. (I hope they surprise me on the album part but I'm not holding my breath.)

Chalk that all up to an *educated* guess... (until Stevie changes her mind. :lol: )

[michelej1]

There were two talks about money: one about the controlled composition (double album, tracks over the 10) and one for production costs (extra days with the engineers, more songs mixed). I think he paid for the two engineers they tested out out of his pocket but I'd have to go back and watch it.



No, I think the band paid for the engineers. That's what he was teasing John about, having to pay his 25%. I think he said John's share was $9000. He said if John didn't pay, then they wouldn't have bass on the tracks or something.

Lindsey paid for having the extra tracks on the album.

Michele

[snicksfan85]

No, I think the band paid for the engineers. That's what he was teasing John about, having to pay his 25%. I think he said John's share was $9000. He said if John didn't pay, then they wouldn't have bass on the tracks or something.

Lindsey paid for having the extra tracks on the album.

Michele

OK, I watched it again. And there's a lot of stuff I didn't pay attention to, business-wise. I guess it's because I still wanted to be a studio engineer at that time. :lol:

He was willing to pay for it out of his potential royalties. He says "We only get paid royalties up to 12 songs and if we had 20, I'd really only be getting paid for 2 or 3." and then says something about being crazy. That's the controlled composition clause in action. BUT, what finally put the nail in coffin of that was Stevie's non-commitment. He goes on to say during the rehearsal part that he was willing to "eat" the money they were going to lose on a double album if they could tour, make an album, and then tour some more but it sounds like Stevie wouldn't commit to anything over 40 dates ahead of time. (Which we know she did go ahead and do.) The math didn't add up to me on that until I realized he was looking at doing some covers on that double album which would have come directly out of his royalties, reducing him to only getting paid on 2-3 tracks.

So, the songwriters didn't get paid for 6 tracks on each album sold meaning Stevie took a hit too unless they worked that out which I highly doubt. He did technically end up paying for it, so to speak, but only in potential royalties on sales.

Yea, the band paid for the engineers (which I'm sure came out of their advance that they got from signing with Reprise). What I was thinking was during that whole blow up with Stevie about the Producer agreement and Chris Lord-Alge Lindsey offered to make it up out of his own pocket, but that was just my memory mixing up the many times he was talking about "eating" the costs of the double album. My bad...

[elle]

The math didn't add up to me on that until I realized he was looking at doing some covers on that double album which would have come directly out of his royalties, reducing him to only getting paid on 2-3 tracks.

So, the songwriters didn't get paid for 6 tracks on each album sold meaning Stevie took a hit too unless they worked that out which I highly doubt. He did technically end up paying for it, so to speak, but only in potential royalties on sales.


this is how i remember it (might be wrong) -


LB wanted a double album with 20 songs (10 songs his, 10 songs SN's)
they were only gonna get royalties for 12 songs so he said if he can recoup costs on the tour he would be willing to eat (a f*ck of a lot of money i think were his exact words :lol:) royalties for 8 of his songs and just get paid for 2 while SN would get her 10
at the end SN would not commit to a long enough tour so they decided on 18 songs and that way SN would be getting royalties for her 9 songs while LB would be getting royalties for 3 songs out of his 9 instead of just 2 out of 10 for each album sold.


does that add up?

EDIT: in fact, now when i look at the numbers, i think there was something more to it that i can't remember.

[Macfanforever]

I just wait and see.as long its new.And even if it is released on 78 rpm record I'll still buy it.

[michelej1]

He was willing to pay for it out of his potential royalties. He says "We only get paid royalties up to 12 songs and if we had 20, I'd really only be getting paid for 2 or 3." and then says something about being crazy.

Ok, so 10 was never the cut off. That's what I was thinking that it was 10, not 12.

Michele

[snicksfan85]

this is how i remember it (might be wrong) -


LB wanted a double album with 20 songs (10 songs his, 10 songs SN's)
they were only gonna get royalties for 12 songs so he said if he can recoup costs on the tour he would be willing to eat (a f*ck of a lot of money i think were his exact words :lol:) royalties for 8 of his songs and just get paid for 2 while SN would get her 10
at the end SN would not commit to a long enough tour so they decided on 18 songs and that way SN would be getting royalties for her 9 songs while LB would be getting royalties for 3 songs out of his 9 instead of just 2 out of 10 for each album sold.


does that add up?

EDIT: in fact, now when i look at the numbers, i think there was something more to it that i can't remember.

See, here's the thing: although they were each getting 10 tracks, Stevie was bringing 10 tracks of her original material and Lindsey was bringing 10 tracks that included other people's songs. And that throws a wrench in your potential royalties, especially if you want to go above and beyond what the label is willing to pay you.

And we're purely talking about songwriting royalties here because the label pays the recording artist a percentage of the SRP of the album versus the statutory song by song rate (or reduced one) which is what is at question.

Here's a good video that explains the controlled composition (although it's actually up to 9.1 cents on the statutory rate now):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSt0jWFBE94

I really think it came down to the covers. Because although they can only be paid on 12 songs, they still have to pay out of their share full royalties to the songwriters of whatever they cover. They worked on at least "I Am Waiting" and "Love Minus Zero" as part of his 10. And since he was taking a bunch of stuff he worked on from the original GOS, there may have been a couple more in there since that bootleg has several. I could see where she might be upset if her royalties were reduced since she brought all new material to the table and didn't want a double album to begin with. The gist I got from it was he was going to pay those royalties out of his share maybe as an olive branch to Stevie. (To be honest, I'd make him pay it too. haha)

There's never any discussion about Stevie being paid on 8 and him on 2. He just says he potentially could be paid for 2 or 3 and that was when he was still adamant on the double album. Then the running order argument sounded like it turned nasty and they had a come to Jesus meeting and now there's no double album or covers on the single album.

Lindsey really comes out the best out of all of them. He's got his share of the advance, songwriter royalties, artist royalties, and producer royalties. But, a double album would have meant a higher price point (brought up several times) which could lead to lower sales (brought up several times). He was already willing to halve his songwriting royalties and he was looking at reducing all the rest of those with lower sales and without a guarantee he could make that up somewhere, he wasn't willing to do that. (The resigned "I've got a new house and kids" speech.)

[CADreaming]

He was already willing to halve his songwriting royalties and he was looking at reducing all the rest of those with lower sales and without a guarantee he could make that up somewhere, he wasn't willing to do that. (The resigned "I've got a new house and kids" speech.)

Stevie reminded him of that earlier too when she asked him if he was thinking of signing with Interscope. She said, "People have brand new houses they're building...and families...I mean, you guys do. I don't." Lindsey shot her a look. It was like she was lecturing him. :lol:


Thanks for sharing all your input too. It makes more sense when you look at how the business works.

[snicksfan85]

I just wait and see.as long its new.And even if it is released on 78 rpm record I'll still buy it.

That's the spirit!

[TrueFaith77]

Stevie reminded him of that earlier too when she asked him if he was thinking of signing with Interscope. She said, "People have brand new houses they're building...and families...I mean, you guys do. I don't." Lindsey shot her a look. It was like she was lecturing him. :lol:


Thanks for sharing all your input too. It makes more sense when you look at how the business works.


I took that look of his to be, I don't know, a response to her rationalization which ends with a dig--I don't know; something about how like it's his fault she doesn't have a family lol.

[WildHearted]

I just wait and see.as long its new.And even if it is released on 78 rpm record I'll still buy it.

Amen! :angel:

[snicksfan85]

Stevie reminded him of that earlier too when she asked him if he was thinking of signing with Interscope. She said, "People have brand new houses they're building...and families...I mean, you guys do. I don't." Lindsey shot her a look. It was like she was lecturing him. :lol:


Thanks for sharing all your input too. It makes more sense when you look at how the business works.

You end up getting super acquainted with contracts when you work for an artist who is too cheap to hire a lawyer. :lol:

[elle]

I really think it came down to the covers. Because although they can only be paid on 12 songs, they still have to pay out of their share full royalties to the songwriters of whatever they cover. They worked on at least "I Am Waiting" and "Love Minus Zero" as part of his 10. And since he was taking a bunch of stuff he worked on from the original GOS, there may have been a couple more in there since that bootleg has several. I could see where she might be upset if her royalties were reduced since she brought all new material to the table and didn't want a double album to begin with. The gist I got from it was he was going to pay those royalties out of his share maybe as an olive branch to Stevie. (To be honest, I'd make him pay it too. haha)

There's never any discussion about Stevie being paid on 8 and him on 2. He just says he potentially could be paid for 2 or 3 and that was when he was still adamant on the double album. Then the running order argument sounded like it turned nasty and they had a come to Jesus meeting and now there's no double album or covers on the single album.

Lindsey really comes out the best out of all of them. He's got his share of the advance, songwriter royalties, artist royalties, and producer royalties. But, a double album would have meant a higher price point (brought up several times) which could lead to lower sales (brought up several times). He was already willing to halve his songwriting royalties and he was looking at reducing all the rest of those with lower sales and without a guarantee he could make that up somewhere, he wasn't willing to do that. (The resigned "I've got a new house and kids" speech.)

thanks for your input. i'm still confused though and don't get where you get all that from what was said in the doc. yes there is LMZ on the bonus CD and they were working on IAW and some other [original] songs that did not end up on CD but there was never any discussion of royalties for covers. i would think that's a given and they wouldn't even need to discuss that?

no there was never any discussion of Stevie getting paid 8, there was a discussion of 20 songs, and only getting paid for 12:lol:. and he said he would get paid for only 2-3 if they go with 20. so 20-12 is 8, that's how i came up with 8 (even though 8 was not explicitly mentioned).;)

if i remember correctly Lindsey was pretty clear that everybody else would get ALL they would normally get and only HE would take the cut / eat part of what he would normally get. i think in the end he said that he's taking a bit smaller cut than originally intended b/c they went with 18 songs instead, but i didn't hear anybody saying that this would be b/c Stevie is in the end getting shortchanged as you seem to conclude?:confused:

[TrueFaith77]

Were not GOS, TOF ;), WFY, DOR, SGCYM, IAW all intended for SYW? That sounds like a much bigger double album. I'm not sure it wasn't 10 stevie+however many Lindsey = double album; stevie getting paid for 10, lindsey for 2 or 3. If all that were sacrificed were LMZ and NMB... then it seems like a lot of drama for not much (and I LOOOOVE LMZ and NMB).

[louielouie2000]

Were not GOS, TOF ;), WFY, DOR, SGCYM, IAW all intended for SYW? That sounds like a much bigger double album. I'm not sure it wasn't 10 stevie+however many Lindsey = double album; stevie getting paid for 10, lindsey for 2 or 3. If all that were sacrificed were LMZ and NMB... then it seems like a lot of drama for not much (and I LOOOOVE LMZ and NMB).

Waaaaay too many TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms) in that post! ;)

[mikephxaz]

All the dscussion of SYW royalities is very interesting but I just can't keep wishing that in October the four of them could get into a studio and try to put out a cd (by March or April) and then tour...It's obvious that Lindsey would have to produce (uugghh) but I'll take what I can get...new music:thumbsup:
I would love for Sheryl to come in and do some backing vocals for Stevie's AND Lyndsey's stuff. (if he hasn't burned that bridge)

[snicksfan85]

thanks for your input. i'm still confused though and don't get where you get all that from what was said in the doc. yes there is LMZ on the bonus CD and they were working on IAW and some other [original] songs that did not end up on CD but there was never any discussion of royalties for covers. i would think that's a given and they wouldn't even need to discuss that?

no there was never any discussion of Stevie getting paid 8, there was a discussion of 20 songs, and only getting paid for 12:lol:. and he said he would get paid for only 2-3 if they go with 20. so 20-12 is 8, that's how i came up with 8 (even though 8 was not explicitly mentioned).;)

if i remember correctly Lindsey was pretty clear that everybody else would get ALL they would normally get and only HE would take the cut / eat part of what he would normally get. i think in the end he said that he's taking a bit smaller cut than originally intended b/c they went with 18 songs instead, but i didn't hear anybody saying that this would be b/c Stevie is in the end getting shortchanged as you seem to conclude?:confused:


That whole discussion of the 12 song payout only involves the songwriters. Mick and John don't figure into this (yet).That is an oversimplified look at songwriting royalties and controlled compositions.

The label puts in the contract that you as a songwriter or group of songwriters get paid for x amount of songs on the album that you are about to record and usually at a reduced rate on top of that. If you go over that, the label is no longer obligated to pay mechanical royalties for those extra songs.

Lindsey wanted to put 20 songs on the album, leaving 8 songs that they wouldn't be able to get mechanicals on. And on top of that, he wanted to include covers. Now, those mechanical royalties for those covers have to be paid from the royalties of the 12 songs but are not included in the 12 songs.

Example:
20 songs on the album with 2 covers.
They get paid for 12.
12*9.1 cents*75% (statutory reduction)=$.819 per album sold cap on songwriting royalties
Split 50/50 with Stevie (the other songwriter)= $.4095 each
Now, they still have to pay the songwriters of the 2 covers (.182 cents) out of their royalties. They can take it directly out of the $.819 or they could work out to come out of Lindsey's share. If they take it out that way then Stevie takes a hit too. If they take it out of just Lindsey's half, then only Lindsey takes the hit.

Taken out of Lindsey's half he'd get a whopping total of $.2275 (about the equivalent of 3 songs)

Dizzy yet? It only gets worse.

The reason I assumed is he brought a lot of what he was already working on/worked on to the table and that had a lot of covers on it. (Plus, we ended up with one of them on the deluxe and we know they at least mixed that other one.) It was just an assumption based on what I know about the those particular clauses and what was going on at the time.

On top of that, the band gets paid a percentage as recording artists of each album sold that they split 4 ways. And Lindsey, being the producer, also get's a producer royalty. Now, when everyone's managers and lawyers got involved, Lindsey may have also been willing to take a hit on those other royalties to appease the other 3 in the group to achieve his "artistic" vision but that's never specifically brought up. He talks a couple times about number crunching and what I just described into "eating a f'n lot of money" comments he makes over and over, especially later.

And to complicate things even further, Stevie and Lindsey still get mechanical royalties no matter if they sell 1 copy or 1 million, whereas Mick and John would have to wait until the recoupable advance was paid off (from sales) to see money directly from the project. That's why Mick is so hell bent on touring.

Now you see why they each of them have a manager, business manager, lawyer, etc, etc, etc... :laugh:


That's my take... The real thing that it boils down to is that Stevie and Lindsey put a bunch of songs on there and didn't get paid for them, regardless of how many songs Lindsey actually got paid for.

[snicksfan85]

Were not GOS, TOF ;), WFY, DOR, SGCYM, IAW all intended for SYW? That sounds like a much bigger double album. I'm not sure it wasn't 10 stevie+however many Lindsey = double album; stevie getting paid for 10, lindsey for 2 or 3. If all that were sacrificed were LMZ and NMB... then it seems like a lot of drama for not much (and I LOOOOVE LMZ and NMB).

It seemed they were pretty focused on 20 tracks. And when it comes down to it it's always a p*ssing match, especially with this band.

I love those songs too, especially NMB. It's on every Stevie/Mac playlist I make...

[SortaSavageLike]

Waaaaay too many TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms) in that post! ;)

The next album will be produced by Tom Clancy. :p

[elle]

Were not GOS, TOF ;), WFY, DOR, SGCYM, IAW all intended for SYW? That sounds like a much bigger double album. I'm not sure it wasn't 10 stevie+however many Lindsey = double album; stevie getting paid for 10, lindsey for 2 or 3. If all that were sacrificed were LMZ and NMB... then it seems like a lot of drama for not much (and I LOOOOVE LMZ and NMB).

yeah, on the basis of "i wouldn't get involved in this - at least not with this group of songs" and that they would sift through GOS material "and take all more pop / radio friendly songs for FM album" (or something like that) i always kept thinking of Twist of Fate and Down on Rodeo as 2 songs that he may have originally considered for SYW since they are more Mac audience friendly songs... and that he decided to pull them in the course of the double album / single album argument.

[michelej1]

I would love for Sheryl to come in and do some backing vocals for Stevie's AND Lyndsey's stuff. (if he hasn't burned that bridge)

She probably burned that bridge herself when she prematurely announced she was planning on touring with FM. Lindsey subsequently kicked the fallen structure.

Michele

[mikephxaz]

She probably burned that bridge herself when she prematurely announced she was planning on touring with FM. Lindsey subsequently kicked the fallen structure.Michele

Michele...I completely agree.
I dont want Sheryl to become a member of FM but since Stevie and Lindsey refuse to do duets anymore on Fleetwood Mac albums (i dont understand why...it all seems so "seperate"..his and hers...) I would love to hear another females voice in their harmonies.

[TrueFaith77]

Michele...I completely agree.
I dont want Sheryl to become a member of FM but since Stevie and Lindsey refuse to do duets anymore on Fleetwood Mac albums (i dont understand why...it all seems so "seperate"..his and hers...) I would love to hear another females voice in their harmonies.

You now who would be good? That Christine McVie chick.

[michelej1]

^And we know that even with 3 back up singers on the FM tour, it still doesn't sound like it did when Christine was with them. I'm not in favor of throwing another female vocal on an album. If they need extra back up, they can always loop their own voices and then use Sharon and Lori to replicate that sound on stage.

Michele

[MacShadowsBall]

I support FM adding a new member. Christine has been gone 15 years and she ain't coming back. Officially add a new member(s) or use the background players more prominently on the record. :cool:

[BLY]

Please no. Keep Lori and Sharon on Stevie's solo recordings ONLY. Lindsey can make a full vocal blend with his voice and Stevie's.

[CADreaming]

Please no. Keep Lori and Sharon on Stevie's solo recordings ONLY. Lindsey can make a full vocal blend with his voice and Stevie's.

THANK YOU.:nod:

[louielouie2000]

Please no. Keep Lori and Sharon on Stevie's solo recordings ONLY. Lindsey can make a full vocal blend with his voice and Stevie's.

THANK YOU.:nod:

+1. To me, the even bigger issue with their sound these days is the army of backing musicians the band tows around with them. Their modern concerts are like a musical theatre caricature of Fleetwood Mac. Listen to the Live '80 album and Live In Boston back to back, and the difference is staggering. I pay to hear FLEETWOOD MAC, not their supporting musicians.

[BLY]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one still holding on. I get the live shows even though it was a bit tough on the Tango tour to digest the touring band.The album recordings have always been mixed with the Mac members present to record and if there is going to be a swan song and Chris won't/can't particapate so be it. Buckingham/Nicks!

[Spikey]

I dont want Sheryl to become a member of FM but since Stevie and Lindsey refuse to do duets anymore on Fleetwood Mac albums (i dont understand why...it all seems so "seperate"..his and hers...)
Well, that was SYW. SYW was not representative on what FM can achieve as a 4-piece act, IMHO. Was it a good album, relatively speaking? Probably so. Was it the heights of what the 4 can accomplish together? Probably not.

I'm sure if this EP gets released or turns into a new record, there will be duets, and harmonies, and more.. it all just depends on whether they *bloody work together* and make something cohesive, not claustrophobic like SYW.

And they can't do worse than Soldier's Angel, anyway. So i'm keeping the (true) faith.

[mikephxaz]

Please no. Keep Lori and Sharon on Stevie's solo recordings ONLY. Lindsey can make a full vocal blend with his voice and Stevie's.

I know I should be happy about even the possibilities of a new FM cd but even the thought of Lindsey doing "full vocal blends" just brings back all my fears of another over produced cd....I know vocal blends doesnt necessarily mean over produced but when I listen to raw strength of Lindseys guitar and Stevies vocals on Soilders Angel, I just wish that Dave Stewart could produce both SN & LB tracks on the next album

[WildHearted]

They can just double their voices in the studio, harmonize with themselves. They don't need backing musicians.

I think they need just ONE back-up singer on tour, to fill in Christine's parts. They don't need a whole freaking choir back there.

[CADreaming]

...and if there is going to be a swan song and Chris won't/can't particapate so be it. Buckingham/Nicks!

whoop! whoop! :nod:

They can just double their voices in the studio, harmonize with themselves. They don't need backing musicians.

I think they need just ONE back-up singer on tour, to fill in Christine's parts. They don't need a whole freaking choir back there.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[TrueFaith77]

^^I disagree. I want more kid choirs on this ep/lp!!! :lol:

[WeepingWall]

I know I should be happy about even the possibilities of a new FM cd but even the thought of Lindsey doing "full vocal blends" just brings back all my fears of another over produced cd....I know vocal blends doesnt necessarily mean over produced but when I listen to raw strength of Lindseys guitar and Stevies vocals on Soilders Angel, I just wish that Dave Stewart could produce both SN & LB tracks on the next album

"Soldier's Angel" is an anomaly, and probably only came out so raw because Lindsey didn't want Dave Stewart doing anything with a song he played on. Dave Stewart does not ever equal raw strength. Dave Stewart is the epitome of over-produced cheese. (and I like a lot of Eurythmics).

[sodascouts]

^^I disagree. I want more kid choirs on this ep/lp!!! :lol:

Yes, and make sure they get to repeat whatever they're singing numerous times so we can fully appreciate their vocal stylings! What could be a more emotionally powerful way to end a love song than with an extended cutesy pre-teen sing-a-long?

[sodascouts]

"Soldier's Angel" is an anomaly, and probably only came out so raw because Lindsey didn't want Dave Stewart doing anything with a song he played on. Dave Stewart does not ever equal raw strength. Dave Stewart is the epitome of over-produced cheese. (and I like a lot of Eurythmics).

Am I the only one who thinks the guitar part on "Soldier's Angel" is TOO simplistic, almost to the point of banality? I get that it's supposed to be "raw" and basic, but to me, it sounds like a boring series of KER-PLUNKs that are actually distracting.

[KER-PLUNK.] "I am a soldier's angel; through the [KER-PLUNK] eyes of a soldier, through the [KER-PLUNK] eyes of a soldier, [KER-PLUNK] I am a soldier's mother." [KER-PLUNK].

As much as I love SnL working together closely, this just doesn't do it for me.

[CADreaming]

Am I the only one who thinks the guitar part on "Soldier's Angel" is TOO simplistic? To me, it sounds like a boring series of KER-PLUNKs.

[KER-PLUNK.] "I am a soldier's angel; through the [KER-PLUNK] eyes of a soldier, through the [KER-PLUNK] eyes of a soldier, [KER-PLUNK] I am a soldier's mother." [KER-PLUNK].

As much as I love SnL working together closely, this just doesn't do it for me.

It's supposed to sound that way. It's like Taps.

Love it. It's brilliant.

[sodascouts]

There's no two-note KER-PLUNKs in Taps. Its melody stands on its own. Stevie's song would have sounded better - even more "raw" - with no guitar part than with that instrusively clunky, boring one. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I imagine a rather unpopular one at that!

[CADreaming]

There's no two-note KER-PLUNKs in Taps. Its melody stands on its own. Stevie's song would have sounded better - even more "raw" - with no guitar part than with that instrusively clunky, boring one. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I imagine a rather unpopular one at that!

Said it was "like" Taps-similar to the opening. :) But, no I think most people hate it. I like the way it jars. I think it's supposed to and I think that's what they were going for. I also like the sound of just the two of them and a guitar.

[WildHearted]

Said it was "like" Taps-similar to the opening. :) But, no I think most people hate it. I like the way it jars. I think it's supposed to and I think that's what they were going for. I also like the sound of just the two of them and a guitar.

Completely agree.

I like the brutality of the guitar, the roughness of the vocals. It's supposed to make you go :shocked:. And I definitely think it was intentional.

[Villavic]

^^I disagree. I want more kid choirs on this ep/lp!!! :lol:

Oh no please!! Let the kids just for the Smurfs jingles!! :eek:

[TrueFaith77]

I think Soldiers Angel is supposed to be Brechtian.

[mikephxaz]

" Dave Stewart is the epitome of over-produced cheese. (and I like a lot of Eurythmics).

Have you heard LB's Family Man?:confused:

[michelej1]

Said it was "like" Taps-similar to the opening. :) But, no I think most people hate it. I like the way it jars.

Me too. Joss Whedon did a Buffy musical once. When Buffy died, her friends dabbled in black magic to bring her back from the dead. When she returned, they thought she'd be grateful to be alive again, but what she didn't tell them is that she'd been in heaven. She'd been joyful and pain free and felt loved in death and they brought her back to a harsh, mean world. She kept it to herself, but then in the musical she sang the truth. She sang, "I think that I was in hea-ven." And every time she sang the word heaven she struck a discordant note. Wrest from it against her will, "heaven" no longer meant paradise or pleasure.

I always thought that was quite effective and Soldier's Angel reminds me of that. The sound SnL achieve is not supposed to be smooth or pleasant.

Michele

[michelej1]

Yes, and make sure they get to repeat whatever they're singing numerous times so we can fully appreciate their vocal stylings! What could be a more emotionally powerful way to end a love song than with an extended cutesy pre-teen sing-a-long?

At first I thought that was Lindsey at the end on SYW. Somehow, it would have given me more perverse pleasure if it had been him.

Well, at least that wasn't a real bird on Peacekeeper.

Michele

[cliffdweller]

Have you heard LB's Family Man?:confused:

Ha-ha! Yes! Oh brother...:distress:

[HejiraNYC]

There's no two-note KER-PLUNKs in Taps. Its melody stands on its own. Stevie's song would have sounded better - even more "raw" - with no guitar part than with that instrusively clunky, boring one. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I imagine a rather unpopular one at that!

I think the stark simplicity and instrumentation of "Soldier's Angel" is incredibly effective and moving. It's supposed to be simple, direct, brutal and in-your-face; not a beautiful ballad awash with ethereal imagery and harps. And only a female singer with the musical instinct and intellect of Stevie could convey such devastation and anger without resorting to obvious hystrionics. Johnny Cash was good at doing this; I could totally picture him singing this song on one of his American Recordings albums.

[WeepingWall]

Have you heard LB's Family Man?:confused:

Yes, and like many Eurythmics songs from around the same period are products of their time and can be appreciated knowing what musical climate they came from. Some are more timeless than others. But Lindsey moved on, and currently makes relevant music. Dave Stewart, I would argue, hasn't really had it together musically in a long time.

[WeepingWall]

Johnny Cash was good at doing this; I could totally picture him singing this song on one of his American Recordings albums.

That would have been a wonderful cover!

[HejiraNYC]

Yes, and like many Eurythmics songs from around the same period are products of their time and can be appreciated knowing what musical climate they came from. Some are more timeless than others. But Lindsey moved on, and currently makes relevant music. Dave Stewart, I would argue, hasn't really had it together musically in a long time.

Well, if you are going to "argue" it, why don't you cite some examples of where/when he "hadn't really had it together musically in a long time." I thought his work on In Your Dreams was stellar.

[WeepingWall]

Well, if you are going to "argue" it, why don't you cite some examples of where/when he "hadn't really had it together musically in a long time." I thought his work on In Your Dreams was stellar.

I will change "I would argue" to "in my opinion" as I don't mean any offense to anyone's individual tastes. Personally, I do not like the work he has done musically for some time (that I've followed. And In Your Dreams included). I personally prefer Lindsey's work. However, Lindsey's work gets better reviews overall. Looking on Metacritic.com you can see and compare

Dave Stewart:
In Your Dream 62
the blackbird Diaries 66
SuperHeavy 52

Lindsey Buckingham
Seeds We Sow 73
Gift of Screws 77
Under the Skin 80

[Macfanforever]

I think the stark simplicity and instrumentation of "Soldier's Angel" is incredibly effective and moving. It's supposed to be simple, direct, brutal and in-your-face; not a beautiful ballad awash with ethereal imagery and harps. And only a female singer with the musical instinct and intellect of Stevie could convey such devastation and anger without resorting to obvious hystrionics. Johnny Cash was good at doing this; I could totally picture him singing this song on one of his American Recordings albums.

That would have been a wonderful cover!

I love Johnny Cash also his whole talented family and their music.I love to hear him cover it.

I can hear his trademark voice in my head singing "Soldier's Angel" .

[mikephxaz]

[QUOTE=WeepingWall;1060590]I will change "I would argue" to "in my opinion" as I don't mean any offense to anyone's individual tastes. Personally, I do not like the work he has done musically for some time (that I've followed. And In Your Dreams included). I personally prefer Lindsey's work. However, Lindsey's work gets better reviews overall.


I agree that Lindsey's solo work is more acoustical but IMO he even over produces much of that. SYW had some of the best LB music in years but he just can't help himself...Murrow, Red Rover, Come, and (the most beautiful of all), Say Goodbye were all over produced. When he performs Say Goodbye live - it is soooooo beautiful...so sweet...but on SYW he destroyed it with his heavy hand...:confused:

[Serrart]

Well, that was SYW. SYW was not representative on what FM can achieve as a 4-piece act, IMHO. Was it a good album, relatively speaking? Probably so. Was it the heights of what the 4 can accomplish together? Probably not.

I'm sure if this EP gets released or turns into a new record, there will be duets, and harmonies, and more.. it all just depends on whether they *bloody work together* and make something cohesive, not claustrophobic like SYW.

And they can't do worse than Soldier's Angel, anyway. So i'm keeping the (true) faith.


I haven't been around, so I'm not informed, in which phase Buckingham/Nicks are at this point? Talking? Not talking? Keen to work on a new album together? I've read Stevie hinted to a new possible FM tour, but nothing about a new album.

[michelej1]

I haven't been around, so I'm not informed, in which phase Buckingham/Nicks are at this point? Talking? Not talking? Keen to work on a new album together? I've read Stevie hinted to a new possible FM tour, but nothing about a new album.

They're talking. Stevie mentioned tour rehearsals in January. Tour would start in March. So, even if she wanted a new album (and she never said she did), that wouldn't give them much time. Of course, we have all imagined scenarios where it could still happen.:lol:

Michele

[Serrart]

They're talking. Stevie mentioned tour rehearsals in January. Tour would start in March. So, even if she wanted a new album (and she never said she did), that wouldn't give them much time. Of course, we have all imagined scenarios where it could still happen.:lol:

Michele

After all a quality they share is the ability to prepare their albums or FM albums in a couple of months ;)