Message from Wendy Welch (re: BW RRHOF induction)

[Spikey]

Hey folks,

For those who haven't followed the Bob Welch on Facebook stuff, Wendy, Bob's widow, is posting as Bob on Facebook, primarily to spread news that he is gone and is also part of a group called "Let's Get Bob Welch Inducted Into The Rock&Roll Hall of Fame."

http://www.facebook.com/groups/BobWelch.HOF/permalink/416670555050145/#!/groups/BobWelch.HOF/

The precusor to Wendy's post was this:
Pixie Gee:
A note worth reading and considering from Jimmy:

Jimmy · Friends with John Mcvie and 2 others

I have said this before , RRHF, has not , will not , ever accept , a petition , as reasoning to get inducted into the RRHF ... WHY you are asking yourselves ? Then the whole reason for the RRHF could be corrupted and bands or artists could "buy" their way in to it , which would make it completely useless ... It's not operated as a democratic entity , it's a private organization that operates by it's own rules and guide lines ... The invite was sent to the leader of the band and that person in turn replied to them with a list of who would be attending ... that's how it works , so you can not appeal to RRHF you must appeal to the band ... The "Mob Rules Plan" will never get the "Mac" to set around the table and to work this thing out , trust me on this ...

Bob Welch:
att: Welch Warriors, I think we should all listen to Pixie Gee. The petition is stilll important to go viral. But we must now contact all members of Fleetwood Mac in anyway we can. Pull out all punches and get to any and every Fleetwood Mac member every way we can think of. This is the only thing we can do for Bob and his memory, and as you know he deserved it then and he deserves it now. His fans have proven it. This space has had over 1 1/2 million hits since he died. You all must know some way you can help to reach just one of their sites or them peronally if not all of them this will make a difference. Look up their names and post all your comments that you may have on all their sites. Thank you.<3Wendy.

The link to the comment thread from above is here:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/BobWelch.HOF/permalink/416670555050145/

Hopefully everyone has signed the petition and will support Wendy and friends (including myself) to achieve this goal, and if anyone is friends with BN, the Mac's, or Fleetwood himself they will persuade them a bit.

[wetcamelfood]

I see what Jimmy's saying but if all the band does is tell the hall who is attending then why were DK & JS inducted if they weren't attending? Thus, there must be more to it then just this. JMHO though. :)

John

[wetcamelfood]

I'm wondering how to feel about the induction now, I mean, if the petition doesn't work we'll feel we weren't heard and if it works, is he in because they genuinely had a change or heart or are they just caving to pressure and inducting him to apease fans? Hate to be a bummer but just trying to head such feelings off at the pass. :)

John

[holidayroad]

I think RRHOF needs to change policies for good and admit every member of a band or just admit a band and not clarify anything about individual members. That's the fair way of doing things. Then if a member of a band had a very influential solo career, they could be admitted individually that way.

[WildHearted]

I signed the petition to show my support for the matter.

But quite frankly, I never expected the petition to actually do anything in terms of getting him in the RRHOF.

If it worked that way, we could just petition for FM to get all the past grammy's they were nominated for but did not recieve, etc etc.

[absinthe_boy]

I think with the RRHOF, it is the HOF people who choose which members of a band are inducted. It is then up to those individuals whether they turn up. In some cases inductees may be deceased.

So Fleetwood Mac themselves would have had little, if any, influence in who was inducted. Mick being the all round good guy he is, probably suggested Bob to the HOF people.

There was some controversy when Genesis were inducted as Anthony Phillips was not inducted. He only played on their first two albums, neither of which was a hit, but he wrote most of their early songs and a great deal of material that would continue appearing on Genesis LP's long after he left. He was the bedrock of the band in its formative years and without him Genesis wouldn't have ever got off the ground or on the road.

With Bob Welch, he didn't play on any massive hit records or write any huge hit singles for Fleetwood Mac...and sometimes the Welch era is overlooked compared to those before it (Green and Buckingham/Nicks). But Bob was very much the glue that held Fleetwood Mac together during some difficult years, he contributed some great songs and the Mac actually had their most consistent albums at that point.

Without Bob there would have been no Buckingham/Nicks or future Fleetwood Mac...the effort he put in should not go unrecognised just because it didn't sell millions.

But as far as the RRHOF goes, perhaps he doesn't fit their criteria...whatever they are.

Can that be changed retrospectively? Probably not...for it would require the HOF people to admit they were wrong in 1998. And that will not happen.

[chiliD]

The biggest slap in the face is:

Donna Jean Godchaux (who basically sang off key background vocals) IS a member of the R&RHoF as a member of the Grateful Dead, but Bob Welch is NOT a member of the R&RHoF as a member of Fleetwood Mac.

Those pompous, self-important piles of **** who run the R&RHoF are F****G IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Catdancer]

The biggest slap in the face is:

Donna Jean Godchaux (who basically sang off key background vocals) IS a member of the R&RHoF as a member of the Grateful Dead, but Bob Welch is NOT a member of the R&RHoF as a member of Fleetwood Mac.

Those pompous, self-important piles of **** who run the R&RHoF are F****G IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen to that!

[SteveMacD]

I think RRHOF needs to change policies for good and admit every member of a band or just admit a band and not clarify anything about individual members. That's the fair way of doing things. Then if a member of a band had a very influential solo career, they could be admitted individually that way.
I understand what you're saying, but it's not as nice for every band. Fleetwood Mac has never had less than two vocalists, had a history of gradual personnel changes, and was kept together by the namesakes, who were not the singers or writers.

But what about a band like the Guess Who? The band broke up when Burton Cummings, the only lead vocalist the band had, quit. Then bassist Jim Kale registered the name and put out subsequent versions of the Guess Who and at one point even let the band play gigs without him (read: there were no original or subsequent Cummings-era members of the band). Are we really to think that the members of the Kale lead bands are relevant?

[BombaySapphire3]

I thought that the reason that Bob wasn't inducted is because Christine refused to share a stage with him?:shrug:

[HomerMcvie]

I thought that the reason that Bob wasn't inducted is because Christine refused to share a stage with him?:shrug:

I don't think we still know, for certain, if Chris was the guilty party, even if most signs point to her...:shocked: Didn't someone suggest that it might have been Peter(I highly doubt this, given his general ~albeit perceived from my own skewed vantage point~ disposition)?


Unless I missed something, Wendy has only said that it wasn't Mick or John.

[chriskisn]

Didn't someone suggest that it might have been Peter(I highly doubt this, given his general ~albeit perceived from my own skewed vantage point~ disposition)?


Not sure if anyone else said this but I did say it jokingly back in the other thread...that everyone was thinking of Chris and yet there was one other person on stage who everyone had forgotten.

[chiliD]

But what about a band like the Guess Who? The band broke up when Burton Cummings, the only lead vocalist the band had

Technically, no. Chad Allan was the original Guess Who lead vocalist. :nod: Burton Cummings initially joined as keyboardist & part time co-lead vocalist. Chad Allan later quit and Cummings took over lead vocals full-time.

[jbrownsjr]

I don't think we still know, for certain, if Chris was the guilty party, even if most signs point to her...:shocked: Didn't someone suggest that it might have been Peter(I highly doubt this, given his general ~albeit perceived from my own skewed vantage point~ disposition)?


Unless I missed something, Wendy has only said that it wasn't Mick or John.

I'm pretty sure she ruled Christine out as well when arguing with someone that was trying to guess. The guy said Danny Graves as well and Wendy pretty much said he didn't know what he was talking about.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm pretty sure she ruled Christine out as well when arguing with someone that was trying to guess. The guy said Danny Graves as well and Wendy pretty much said he didn't know what he was talking about.

So who are we left with? Stevie and Lindsey? What are you thinking, John? If I had to guess between those two, I would definitely guess Lindsey.

[WildHearted]

I can't see Stevie being that petty. What reason would she have to not want Bob inducted?

For the record, I don't really see what Lindsey would have against Bob either and I have to really stretch my imagination to think he would pull such a scheme, but if I had to guess between the two of them...

Then again, these are just my perceptions of people I don't actually know. So...

[SteveMacD]

I don't think we still know, for certain, if Chris was the guilty party, even if most signs point to her...:shocked: Didn't someone suggest that it might have been Peter(I highly doubt this, given his general ~albeit perceived from my own skewed vantage point~ disposition)?


Unless I missed something, Wendy has only said that it wasn't Mick or John.
According to a conversation I had with Mich Reynolds back in 1998 at the Splinter Group show in Cleveland, Peter didn't even know about it until the day of the ceremony.

[SteveMacD]

Technically, no. Chad Allan was the original Guess Who lead vocalist. :nod: Burton Cummings initially joined as keyboardist & part time co-lead vocalist. Chad Allan later quit and Cummings took over lead vocals full-time.
Yeah, I always forget about that because the band had been going by Chad Allan & The Expressions just prior to the record company gimmick that changed the band's name to the Guess Who.

My originial point is still valid, though.

[chiliD]

Yeah, I always forget about that because the band had been going by Chad Allan & The Expressions just prior to the record company gimmick that changed the band's name to the Guess Who.

My originial point is still valid, though.

Didn't say it wasn't...;) By now, you oughta know "me & my minutae" :D

[HomerMcvie]

According to a conversation I had with Mich Reynolds back in 1998 at the Splinter Group show in Cleveland, Peter didn't even know about it until the day of the ceremony.

Well I never thought it was Peter anyway. Just trying to rule out the possibilities.

In my mind, it has to be either Chris or Lindsey. I suspect the former, but hope it's the latter.

[jbrownsjr]

So who are we left with? Stevie and Lindsey? What are you thinking, John? If I had to guess between those two, I would definitely guess Lindsey.

Wendy became a little miffed when he suggested Christine, and didn't know who Graves was.

[holidayroad]

I understand what you're saying, but it's not as nice for every band. Fleetwood Mac has never had less than two vocalists, had a history of gradual personnel changes, and was kept together by the namesakes, who were not the singers or writers.

But what about a band like the Guess Who? The band broke up when Burton Cummings, the only lead vocalist the band had, quit. Then bassist Jim Kale registered the name and put out subsequent versions of the Guess Who and at one point even let the band play gigs without him (read: there were no original or subsequent Cummings-era members of the band). Are we really to think that the members of the Kale lead bands are relevant?

I do understand your point. Still, I'd rather have some people who didn't deserve it get in than to have someone who Did deserve it get left out.

[WildHearted]

I do understand your point. Still, I'd rather have some people who didn't deserve it get in than to have someone who Did deserve it get left out.

Sure. But letting in all those people devalues the induction altogether.

"If everyone is special, then no one is."

[michelej1]

When Wendy first said she regretted having spoken, she said it was because Bob loved the person. I know that ey worked together , but I find it hard to believe that she would speak of Bob as having loved Lindsey. Michele

[jbrownsjr]

When Wendy first said she regretted having spoken, she said it was because Bob loved the person. I know that ey worked together , but I find it hard to believe that she would speak of Bob as having loved Lindsey. Michele

haha!! Maybe LB choked him during French Kiss... :]

[Spikey]

Surely it's Christine or Mick.. Wendy said it wasn't the later Mac people in some quote.

[SteveMacD]

Well, according to "Bwelchhypnotized" on rollingstone.com

"Bob was always into the now.. Christine wrote that song and she knew nothing about Bob, nor has she bothered to contact me or even send a card. *Ask her why he's not in the H&R Hall of Fame. "

[forever]

Copying this from the Q&A Bob Welch did here on The Ledge in 1999. He was in favor of including all the past and present members of Fleetwood Mac.


I also was very disturbed by your being excluded when FM was inducted into the HOF! The unfairness of it (not to mention the lame reasons given) really bothered me, especially since I have always really liked the FM albums you were part of. I especially like the songs Future Games, S.L. (of course), Hypnotized, Bermuda Triangle, Bright Fire, and Night Watch.

But the question I have is this: If you feel free to do so, could you explain what the lawsuit was about, why you went that route, and why you think Mick, John, and Christine seemed to take it so personally? Was there anything else going on at the time that contributed to the hostility or was it just the idea that you sued them? And, lastly, what (if anything) do you think could bring about a resolution of the rift (I'd like to see you get into the HOF retroactively!!) (Dennis Goodyear, Denver, Colorado, USA)

Dennis, I think I've already done enough of a "rant" on my feelings about the hall of fame thing... What could be done....maybe a petition, but a petition to include ALL past members, me, Burnette, Vito, Weston, Dave Mason, Bekka.....That's the fair thing...

[HomerMcvie]

Surely it's Christine or Mick.. Wendy said it wasn't the later Mac people in some quote.

Wendy has said that it wasn't Mick or John. Surely my lifelong heroine isn't a spiteful bi*ch...?:distress:

[ButterCookie]

Wendy has said that it wasn't Mick or John. Surely my lifelong heroine isn't a spiteful bi*ch...?:distress:

*hands a glass of wine*

I dunno, whoever it is, we're only getting one side of the story from Wendy. I'm sure whoever kept him out had a valid reason. They might be the most cracky band ever but they are human beings. I refuse to believe this is one sided.

[HomerMcvie]

*hands a glass of wine*

I dunno, whoever it is, we're only getting one side of the story from Wendy. I'm sure whoever kept him out had a valid reason. They might be the most cracky band ever but they are human beings. I refuse to believe this is one sided.

I'll bet we eventually get the story...

I would bet they were bitter over the lawsuit, and that was the reason. So assuming he could only sue over the royalties from the albums he was on, and if it wasn't Mick or John, it would be easy to assume that Chris was the culprit.

I mean, I can understand how I would be upset too, over someone suing me. But a lawsuit could only earn him what was rightfully his...

[michelej1]

Wendy has said that it wasn't Mick or John. Surely my lifelong heroine isn't a spiteful bi*ch...?:distress:

Spiteful witchiness is a criteria for being a lifelong heroine of mine.

And I disagree that a lawsuit can only get you what is rightfully yours. Ideally that is how litigation works, but sometimes, due to the threat of high attorney costs and damage to the reputation that they sometimes bring, litigation is sometimes used as a form of blackmail, to gain undeserved concessions. Though, I am not saying that is what occurred in this case.

Michele

[wetcamelfood]

Spiteful witchiness is a criteria for being a lifelong heroine of mine.

And I disagree that a lawsuit can only get you what is rightfully yours. Ideally that is how litigation works, but sometimes, due to the threat of high attorney costs and damage to the reputation that they sometimes bring, litigation is sometimes used as a form of blackmail, to gain undeserved concessions. Though, I am not saying that is what occurred in this case.

Michele

It does seem strange that none of us really knew about the suit until Bob discussed it here on his 1st Q&A after it was settled. I know FM weren't favor of the day by then or anything, but still, the press usually love that kind of drama to blow out of proportion etc. regardless what kind of "has been's" they dish dirt on and for none of them to even mention it was going on let alone report it by sensationalizing it...

John

[MikeInNV]

None of this quite adds up to me. If you want to talk animosity among former bandmates (also involving a lawsuit as a matter of fact), look no further than Blondie. There is no love lost among those folks, but all members from the band's first run (1975-1982) were inducted. The ousted members wanted to perform at the ceremony and created an awkward moment by making a request during the acceptance speeches. Debbie Harry shut them down pretty quickly, and only current members performed. It was the talk of that year's ceremony.

My point is, Debbie Harry had no control over who was inducted, only who she performed with. So while someone could probably threaten, "If he's on stage, I won't be" it still doesn't seem like anyone would be denied the actual induction. How could the RRHOF give the bands control over those types of decisions and maintain any type of credibility?

[wetcamelfood]

None of this quite adds up to me. If you want to talk animosity among former bandmates (also involving a lawsuit as a matter of fact), look no further than Blondie. There is no love lost among those folks, but all members from the band's first run (1975-1982) were inducted. The ousted members wanted to perform at the ceremony and created an awkward moment by making a request during the acceptance speeches. Debbie Harry shut them down pretty quickly, and only current members performed. It was the talk of that year's ceremony.

My point is, Debbie Harry had no control over who was inducted, only who she performed with. So while someone could probably threaten, "If he's on stage, I won't be" it still doesn't seem like anyone would be denied the actual induction. How could the RRHOF gave the bands control over those types of decisions and maintain any type of credibility?

This just made me think of when Traffic were being inducted. As we know Dave Mason didn't get along with Winwood but they were both there and although Mason & Winwood did the hug thing, it sounds like (from DM's website anyway, due to SW not letting him in to the Traffic performance at the show, they just did the Feelin' Alright thing later, probably the hall's way of saying "we need DM there but we'll do it (this way) so you don't have to play with him) Steve has gone back to not communicating with Dave so this must have been something the Hall wanted? Just a thought.

John

[StandbackStevie]

I felt in the first place all the members of Fleetwood Mac from 1967 thru today or back in 1998 when the inducted whoever was in the fleetwood mac band during that time should have been inducted in as the whole band not a certain part of the band. which I believe are 16 members in all should have all been inducted and shame on mick fleetwood for not contacting all the members that were not present.

[CADreaming]

I can't see Stevie being that petty. What reason would she have to not want Bob inducted?

For the record, I don't really see what Lindsey would have against Bob either and I have to really stretch my imagination to think he would pull such a scheme, but if I had to guess between the two of them...

Then again, these are just my perceptions of people I don't actually know. So...

I think Stevie and Lindsey would have been on the same page, but I think the page was to get themselves in the HOF, not to keep Bob out. If they were skating in on a technicality, then they may have been pretty motivated not to draw any more attention to themselves by insisting Bob not be inducted...

[gameragamera]

not to get to far OT, but after the beatles/aerosmith and the rolling stones, i believe the number 4 and 5 selling bands are KISS who influenced zillions and may be responsible for the LA Hair band days and RUSH, who has influenced EVERY rock/metal band since...

so if the criteria is influenced many musical peers over 3 decades they both win and if it is large sales, then they both win.

however, neither are in the Hall of Shame - yet Madonna and the Beastie boys are, and regardless of your tastes we ALL know that neither fit in the ROCK category at all...

[SteveMacD]

not to get to far OT, but after the beatles/aerosmith and the rolling stones, i believe the number 4 and 5 selling bands are KISS who influenced zillions and may be responsible for the LA Hair band days and RUSH, who has influenced EVERY rock/metal band since...

so if the criteria is influenced many musical peers over 3 decades they both win and if it is large sales, then they both win.

however, neither are in the Hall of Shame - yet Madonna and the Beastie boys are, and regardless of your tastes we ALL know that neither fit in the ROCK category at all...
I dunno. Sabotage was pretty rockin'. I thin Kiss, Rush, the Guess Who (or anything involving Randy Bachman), and Yes are long, long overdue. I suspect all of the line-up changes on all but Rush makes them nervous.

[jbrownsjr]

I dunno. Sabotage was pretty rockin'. I thin Kiss, Rush, the Guess Who (or anything involving Randy Bachman), and Yes are long, long overdue. I suspect all of the line-up changes on all but Rush makes them nervous.

Will they let John Rutsy in?

[SteveMacD]

Will they let John Rutsy in?

He was on one of their signature songs. He's not Neal Peart, but there are people in it who've done less.

[Spikey]

The latest from the Wendy Welch camp is that negotiations are in process with Mick, and he's saying something like "I'm doing what I can, get back to you". The verdict seems to be that it was the RRHOF's decision more than a band or a person's decision, although of course we'll never know.

[jwd]

The latest from the Wendy Welch camp is that negotiations are in process with Mick, and he's saying something like "I'm doing what I can, get back to you". The verdict seems to be that it was the RRHOF's decision more than a band or a person's decision, although of course we'll never know.

That's encouraging. To me Bob is the only memeber of Fleetwood Mac who was left out that deserves to be there. The man was a big part of the creative genius of the band. More importantly he was pivotal in the Mac's destiny by getting them to California.

[HomerMcvie]

Wendy did confirm last night, that it was Christine who kept Bob out of RRHOF. I know we she had already alluded to that, but she actually posted it last night.:distress:

[MacShadowsBall]

I really hate that. I'm sure Christine had her reasons. Though I am curious how much pull/authority Christine had to deny Bob's induction?

:cool:

[SteveMacD]

Note to self: Don't sue Christine McVie.

[michelej1]

Wendy did confirm last night, that it was Christine who kept Bob out of RRHOF. I know we she had already alluded to that, but she actually posted it last night.:distress:

So, why is Wendy drawing the whole thing out for months at a time? No one sent you a sympathy card? I can see why.

Michele

[Aisling]

Wendy did confirm last night, that it was Christine who kept Bob out of RRHOF. I know we she had already alluded to that, but she actually posted it last night.:distress:

On Facebook? Can you show me where to go to see the post?

[SteveMacD]

On Facebook? Can you show me where to go to see the post?

Here's the screen capture

[Aisling]

Here's the screen capture

Thank you!

"She did resent that he sold more solo albums than she was able to do." MEOW!! Guess there's really no love lost there. It is a two way street though, but I doubt Christine will ever speak on the matter.

Interesting that she said Chris was the only person with "unresolved tension" in the band.

[michelej1]

Thank you!

"She did resent that he sold more solo albums than she was able to do." MEOW!!

I know. It's inconceivable to me that Christine was shaking her fist at French Kiss, green with envy. I'm not saying that she didn't want her solo album to sell. I'm just saying that she had a lot of other people to be jealous of before she would ever start thinking about Bob.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

"She did resent that he sold more solo albums than she was able to do." MEOW!!

I'm a bit skeptical. Christine never seemed jealous or resentful of Stevie's success, so why Bob's?

[HomerMcvie]

I really hate that. I'm sure Christine had her reasons. Though I am curious how much pull/authority Christine had to deny Bob's induction?

:cool:
Well I believe she just said, "that if "he's" there, I won't attend the ceremony".
Note to self: Don't sue Christine McVie.
No sh*t. I've always suspected that you DON'T F*CK with her, OR ELSE... That's actually pretty hot!

Here's the screen capture
Stop stalking me!:thumbsup::rolleyes:

[HomerMcvie]

I'm a bit skeptical. Christine never seemed jealous or resentful of Stevie's success, so why Bob's?

BECAUSE he was suing them over royalties(at the time) that they hadn't paid him!

[michelej1]

BECAUSE he was suing them over royalties(at the time) that they hadn't paid him!

Yes, right. But it looks like Wendy is also trying to suggest a deeper antagonism and saying that Christine was jealous of Bob's solo album success, which seems unlikely.

If she didn't want him in the RRHOF, I think it was probably because she thought he falsely accused her of cheating him, not because she wished she'd enjoyed the solo success he had. That claim seems rather spurious, especially when you consider the timing. Bob's last solo success came in 1979. How is it likely that she would be bummed that her album didn't do as well as his when hers came out years after? "Man, I'm sure fuming because Gotta Hold On Me and my album have tanked and I cannot reach the heights Bob attained five years ago!" Why would she even think to compare her solo efforts to his, when his peak was long over by that time? It's not like Christine rushed to put out her own album to try to compete with him. She only did a second solo album because of the break in FM action. I don't think solo success was an aspiration of hers. Although we do know that she admitted minding never having a number 1 single ala dreams.

I don't think she thought solo success was favorable to success within the band. I think it is more probable she might only be envious if, for instance, she had never had a single within FM that did as well as Ebony Eyes. But turns out, she did have one or, er, two.

Michele

[wetcamelfood]

Yes, right. But it looks like Wendy is also trying to suggest a deeper antagonism and saying that Christine was jealous of Bob's solo album success, which seems unlikely.

If she didn't want him in the RRHOF, I think it was probably because she thought he falsely accused her of cheating him, not because she wished she'd enjoyed the solo success he had. That claim seems rather spurious, especially when you consider the timing. Bob's last solo success came in 1979. How is it likely that she would be bummed that her album didn't do as well as his when hers came out years after? "Man, I'm sure fuming because Gotta Hold On Me and my album have tanked and I cannot reach the heights Bob attained five years ago!" Why would she even think to compare her solo efforts to his, when his peak was long over by that time? It's not like Christine rushed to put out her own album to try to compete with him. She only did a second solo album because of the break in FM action. I don't think solo success was an aspiration of hers. Although we do know that she admitted minding never having a number 1 single ala dreams.

I don't think she thought solo success was favorable to success within the band. I think it is more probable she might only be envious if, for instance, she had never had a single within FM that did as well as Ebony Eyes. But turns out, she did have one or, er, two.

Michele

Agreed, and re: the bolded, it's not like GAHOM did nothing, it still made top 10, how can that not be "good enough"?

John

[elle]

Here's the screen capture

are these posts publicly available on http://www.facebook.com/groups/BobWelch.HOF/?fref=ts page?

[michelej1]

Agreed, and re: the bolded, it's not like GAHOM did nothing, it still made top 10, how can that not be "good enough"?

John

Plus, Bob (and Wendy) weren't in England and he might not have been aware of this, but I'd Rather Go Blind wasn't exactly a failure, even if the Legendary album as a whole wasn't a hit.

Obviously, while I understand Christine's anger with Bob, if I had been Wendy in 1998, I would have been furious with and deeply hurt by Christine at the time and I see where she's coming from. But at this point it's time to let it go. You don't have to forget or forgive, but maybe stop posting things that don't make a lot of sense.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

I entirely doubt the veracity of Wendy's post. While it is likely Christine resented Bob for suing the band, I don't think her opinion in and of itself would make or break the decision of the RRHOF not to include him. Even if Bob had posted this I would have questioned its accuracy.

Moreover, I don't think she cared a hoot how much or little her 1984 album sold in comparison with French Kiss, which only sold as well as it did because it was riding the wave of Rumours. I love Bob's music, I love his contribution to the Mac. I am just trying to keep it real: she had no reason whatsoever to be jealous of him.

If Bob released French Kiss in 1984, it would have sold 74 copies.

[michelej1]

Moreover, I don't think she cared a hoot how much or little her 1984 album sold in comparison with French Kiss, which only sold as well as it did because it was riding the wave of Rumours.

Entirely true and I don't claim to be objective, but Christine's beautiful back up vocals made Sentimental Lady the highlight of the album for me.

Well, the truth is, Bob could be a little controversial in his postings too. Maybe exaggerated a bit and Wendy seems to be like him. You just have to choose what to believe and not believe.

Michele

[GypsySorcerer]

While it is likely Christine resented Bob for suing the band, I don't think her opinion in and of itself would make or break the decision of the RRHOF not to include him.

I tend to agree. Did Christine really have that much influence/clout?

I love Bob's music, both solo and with FM, and absolutely believe he should've been inducted, especially since Spencer and Kirwan were included. I wonder if the RRHOF's "reasoning" was if they let Bob in, they'd have to induct Vito, Burnette, Mason, Weston, etc., too. It's just hard for me to believe that Christine was that powerful.

[HomerMcvie]

Well we know it was always a point of contention with Bob, not being inducted. AS WELL IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. "We" who know the entire history of the band, know how important he was to the history. The FM that went on to sell millions and millions, that incarnation of the band, probably would have never seen the light of day, if it weren't for the 5 albums during the Welch years.
"Bob Welch saved Fleetwood Mac" - Mick Fleetwood
He sustained them during terrible times, really....DO YOU GUYS think they would have survived those years, without him? I mean maybe, but maybe not...
If not, none of us would have the fandom of the BIG lineup, and whatever impact FM's music has had on our lives. We wouldn't be HERE, that's for sure.
Keeping him out of RRHOF was downright criminal, IMO. And believe me, it breaks my heart to know that MY heroine of FM was the one who insisted on him not being inducted...

[HomerMcvie]

I tend to agree. Did Christine really have that much influence/clout?

I love Bob's music, both solo and with FM, and absolutely believe he should've been inducted, especially since Spencer and Kirwan were included. I wonder if the RRHOF's "reasoning" was if they let Bob in, they'd have to induct Vito, Burnette, Mason, Weston, etc. too It's just hard for me to believe that Christine was that powerful.
I think when it came to the induction ceremony(I'm speculating), she just said, "if he's in, I won't be there".
I always knew she was tough, but I guess that if you mess with Christine McVie, you might end up at the bottom of the river, wearing cement boots!

[MacShadowsBall]

While it is likely Christine resented Bob for suing the band, I don't think her opinion in and of itself would make or break the decision of the RRHOF not to include him.

I tend to agree. Did Christine really have that much influence/clout?

I wonder if the RRHOF's "reasoning" was if they let Bob in, they'd have to induct Vito, Burnette, Mason, Weston, etc., too. It's just hard for me to believe that Christine was that powerful.

Yeah, this where I stand in this matter also. Interesting point too regarding inducting Vito and other Macsters. It's kinda like inviting friends out to eat or hangout, at what point do you not invite someone?

:cool:

[MikeInNV]

I think when it came to the induction ceremony(I'm speculating), she just said, "if he's in, I won't be there".


That I can see. But then who actually asked the RRHOF not to induct Bob? I never thought the bands had any say in the induction process. I thought the committee inducted whomever they saw fit. Of course when it comes time for the actual ceremony, who attends, who plays, who speaks, etc. must obviously be hammered out by the band members.

[michelej1]

Well we know it was always a point of contention with Bob, not being inducted. AS WELL IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. "We" who know the entire history of the band, know how important he was to the history. The FM that went on to sell millions and millions, that incarnation of the band, probably would have never seen the light of day, if it weren't for the 5 albums during the Welch years.
"Bob Welch saved Fleetwood Mac" - Mick Fleetwood


Even if Christine didn't want him to be included, I don't think she felt he didn't deserve to be in there or that he was not an integral contributor to FM's evolution. I think she felt he did something unjust and she was angry with him about it. Her behavior was about emotion rather than his merit.

So, obviously one could argue that you should separate the two and just because you're mad at someone personally doesn't mean they shouldn't be honored with a career achievement they deserve and that is true cerebrally, but when you're upset, you don't really think like that.

Michele

[Aisling]

That I can see. But then who actually asked the RRHOF not to induct Bob?

This is my question as well. I can easily believe Chris said that she wouldn't stand on the same stage as him, petty as that might be. But is that enough to have made whoever decides these things exclude Bob?

Who does decide these things? I'm very confused by the whole process.

In any case, whatever her issues were with him, I don't know that I believe in her having that much power over the process. At least not any more than the other members of the band. Why would her opinion override everyone else's?

[SteveMacD]

It COULD be that Christine’s lack of solo success irritated her, and she felt less than Bob as a solo artist.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that, though. Christine was the one with the most hit singles in Fleetwood Mac.

I just don’t think that her solo record meant as much to her as Fleetwood Mac records. I think it was a fun thing she did when the opportunity presented itself. She’s made it clear that she’s NOT Stevie or Lindsey. She needs a band, preferably Fleetwood Mac.

And Wendy? Christine goes further with Fleetwood than solo, which has always been the case. She’s the worst solo artist ever, and Fleetwood Mac fans are just as happy... We got Billy Burnette out of it....

[wetcamelfood]

This is my question as well. I can easily believe Chris said that she wouldn't stand on the same stage as him, petty as that might be. But is that enough to have made whoever decides these things exclude Bob?

Who does decide these things? I'm very confused by the whole process.

In any case, whatever her issues were with him, I don't know that I believe in her having that much power over the process. At least not any more than the other members of the band. Why would her opinion override everyone else's?

Even in retirement, Christine probably makes more money than those who coordinate such things, so perhaps, some monery changed hands? Just a thought. :)

John

[HomerMcvie]

Wendy said last night, that the HOF inducts the band, and the band decides which members get included.

I'm not saying that's how it is, but she says that's how it is.

[Aisling]

For the sake of argument, let’s assume that Wendy is right and the band makes the final decision. If Chris was the only one who did not want Bob inducted, how is it that she got Mick, John, Lindsey, and Stevie to support her in this?

I am not trying to absolve Chris of culpability, I just find it suspect to say that she was the one holding all the cards.

[redbird]

Is Mrs. Welch getting all her info from Mick? Maybe she doesn't know the whole story (that I'd presume Mick knows) either.

[chiliD]

I just think that Mick caved to Christine's wishes mainly because she was on the verge of retiring and he didn't want to burn that bridge to get her to come back at a future date.

Mick SHOULD have taken the hard stance (that Jerry Garcia did with the Grateful Dead) that it was EVERYBODY or NOBODY. Hence, Donna Jean Godchaux is in the R&RHoF with the Grateful Dead and Bob Welch isn't as a member of Fleetwood Mac. Which member of their respective bands had the greater influence? Get my drift?

[HomerMcvie]

I just think that Mick caved to Christine's wishes mainly because she was on the verge of retiring and he didn't want to burn that bridge to get her to come back at a future date.

Mick SHOULD have taken the hard stance (that Jerry Garcia did with the Grateful Dead) that it was EVERYBODY or NOBODY. Hence, Donna Jean Godchaux is in the R&RHoF with the Grateful Dead and Bob Welch isn't as a member of Fleetwood Mac. Which member of their respective bands had the greater influence? Get my drift?

I agree. And FM has always been Mick's LIFE. Meaning that (like Chili said) keeping Christine happy was going to the best "survival move" for keeping FM rolling(or getting her back in the future). Even if it was WRONG(which it was), Mick was throwing Bob under the bus, to stay in Chris' good graces.:distress:

[michelej1]

I agree. And FM has always been Mick's LIFE. Meaning that (like Chili said) keeping Christine happy was going to the best "survival move" for keeping FM rolling(or getting her back in the future). Even if it was WRONG(which it was), Mick was throwing Bob under the bus, to stay in Chris' good graces.:distress:

Not saying Bob shouldn't be in the RRHOF but if I'm Mick and I had to make a choice of upsetting Christine and having her leave the band on a bad note and hurting Bob, I'm going to hurt Bob who sued me EVERY time.

Also, keep in mind that although Mick often speaks for the band, in this case John probably shared his part as one of the co-heads of the band. You know John has a hot head. He might have agreed with Christine about Bob. Even if he didn't, you KNOW he is going to take her side over anyone else's. So, this may actually have been one of those times where John weighed in too, on his own or to support Christine. He'll let Mick do what he wants, but that's only when Mick is not crossing Christine.

Michele

[dreamer6861]

:shrug: *** VIA : WENDY WELCH *** RE: BOB WELCH for the RRHOF ~ Wendy Welch
March 13 near Nashville, TN
Well, I got another worthless email from Mick tonight, just giving me the run around once again, like I still fall for it. Basically he's just too busy and has turned the problems over to his management company, which I will believe when I see it. He told me they were taking care of it 6 months ago. Obviously not! The last two messages from him before that were in December where he said he couldn't get reception in the mountains and would get to me when he get back with good things and then in January where he was so busy doing press releases in Europe and would get back to me regarding the Tribute Album and the RRHOF. How much of this being manipulated and being shined on should I take. And he just had Christine playing with him in Hawaii. Who does he think he's kidding when he ends each email with how much he loves me and Bob. I could go on and on about his emails, but they're all the same bs.

Please keep sending emails saying this is not acceptable. I beg of you, Welch Warriors.

[HomerMcvie]

Does anyone recall if Bob ever got the royalties, for which he was suing them?

Just wondering if it was worthwhile....

[HomerMcvie]

I've thought of doing this ^^^ too, but I'm not sure it's cool to lift her exact posts from FB, and repost them here. I would actually think not...

[jenniferuk]

Does anyone recall if Bob ever got the royalties, for which he was suing them?

Just wondering if it was worthwhile....

They settled out of court, 1996 I think it was.
bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=6936&c=8
Lawsuit Settled (Hollywood Reporter) < Bob Welch < Main Page

Lawsuit Settled (Hollywood Reporter)
Penguin

BODY:
More than 20 years after he left Fleetwood Mac, singer Bob Welch settled a royalties lawsuit against his ex-bandmates, Warner Bros. Records and the group's former lawyer. Welch, who departed the band to pursue a solo career in the early 1970s, agreed Tuesday to undisclosed settlements with Mick Fleetwood and John and Christine McVie as well as the record company and attorney Michael Shapiro. The original complaint, filed in March 1994, didn't specify what Welch sought, and attorneys for both sides said they were barred from discussing terms. But lawyers for both Welch and his former bandmates said they were ''extremely happy'' with the agreement. A lawyer for Warner Bros. said the company was ''pleased'' with it. ''Not only does it represent substantial compensation for what he claims he didn't receive before, it also gives him the opportunity to focus on his career rather than litigation,'' said Anthony Kornarens, Welch's lawyer. Welch contended in the lawsuit that the McVies and Fleetwood negotiated higher royalty rates for themselves over the years without telling Welch, despite deals in the 1970s in which band members agreed to split such money.

[HejiraNYC]

Well she's coming across a bit snooty and entitled. Gift horse much? The bottom line is that Mick doesn't owe Wendy squat, and whatever he is or is not doing in Bob's memory is a charitable gesture that Mick can effect whenever he gets around to it. So she should put on her big girl britches and just be appreciative. I am sure she is not currying any favor from Mick by airing her dirty laundry with him in a public forum.

[mylittledemon]

Please keep sending emails saying this is not acceptable. I beg of you, Welch Warriors.

I know Wendy is having a hard time, and anyone who has lost a loved one can attest to that... but you know, her seeming attitude in the messages she's posting is not helping her cause. It certainly doesn't make me want to help her when I read stuff like that.

[redbird]

I can understand her frustration and despondency, it doesn't make me think Bob deserves to be in the HoF any less. To me it doesn't seem like Bob's only claim to inclusion is Mick's good graces, rather it's Mick's (or someone's) lack of fairness that's resulted in him not being where he deserves. Without really needing to cast anyone as a villain, I hope she gets this for Bob.

[elle]

Is Mrs. Welch getting all her info from Mick? Maybe she doesn't know the whole story (that I'd presume Mick knows) either.

that occurred to me too. i'm not sure how reliable or complete the info that Mick's transmitting is, at least in this case.

[aleuzzi]

They settled out of court, 1996 I think it was.
bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=6936&c=8
Lawsuit Settled (Hollywood Reporter) < Bob Welch < Main Page

Lawsuit Settled (Hollywood Reporter)
Penguin

BODY:
More than 20 years after he left Fleetwood Mac, singer Bob Welch settled a royalties lawsuit against his ex-bandmates, Warner Bros. Records and the group's former lawyer. Welch, who departed the band to pursue a solo career in the early 1970s, agreed Tuesday to undisclosed settlements with Mick Fleetwood and John and Christine McVie as well as the record company and attorney Michael Shapiro. The original complaint, filed in March 1994, didn't specify what Welch sought, and attorneys for both sides said they were barred from discussing terms. But lawyers for both Welch and his former bandmates said they were ''extremely happy'' with the agreement. A lawyer for Warner Bros. said the company was ''pleased'' with it. ''Not only does it represent substantial compensation for what he claims he didn't receive before, it also gives him the opportunity to focus on his career rather than litigation,'' said Anthony Kornarens, Welch's lawyer. Welch contended in the lawsuit that the McVies and Fleetwood negotiated higher royalty rates for themselves over the years without telling Welch, despite deals in the 1970s in which band members agreed to split such money.

Well, 1996 is pretty darn close to 1998. And if I were Mick, John, and Chris, I would still have been pissed. I am not convinced any one of them would have had enough power to say no to Bob's induction. But for Bob to sue them and then expect to be honored on stage with them is a pretty tall order. Mind you, he also talked very poorly of that core trio in the British doc on the band that came out in the mid 90s.

I love most of Bob's music with FM. His time with the band can never be erased. That's a good a legacy as anything else.

[SteveMacD]

I don't know why it's so important. The HOF has become a joke. Recent inductees are either acts should have been inducted YEARS earlier or acts that have little to do with rock, and the list of acts that still haven't been inducted is pretty amazing. And really, that moment for Fleetwood Mac passed 15 years ago. Bob wasn't included. Inducting him now won't change that.

[SteveMacD]

Well, 1996 is pretty darn close to 1998. And if I were Mick, John, and Chris, I would still have been pissed. I am not convinced any one of them would have had enough power to say no to Bob's induction. But for Bob to sue them and then expect to be honored on stage with them is a pretty tall order.
Even if he had been inducted, there was no way that he was going to appear with the band. If he had gone on stage with them for the induction, I suspect it would have turned very Blondie-esq. (So much for all of that "healing" crap they love to spew at us.)

Mind you, he also talked very poorly of that core trio in the British doc on the band that came out in the mid 90s.
That's forgivable. The forgave Stevie, and she said even worse things about them.

[MikeInNV]

Even if he had been inducted, there was no way that he was going to appear with the band. If he had gone on stage with them for the induction, I suspect it would have turned very Blondie-esq. (So much for all of that "healing" crap they love to spew at us.)

See, this is why I'm dying to find out just how the induction process works. If a band member, or even most of the band, had the clout to keep another member out, some of the guys from Blondie never would have gotten in. As part of the Blondie debacle, Debbie Harry and Chris Stein even complained that the guys who were getting in only played with them for 5 years (but it was during their heydey which was the reason for their induction), while their replacements, who were not being inducted, had been playing with them for much longer than that. That's why I think the HOF committee uses their own criteria to determine who is worthy, regardless of how happy the band is about it.

[Villavic]

I wonder if all about this will be detailed in Mick's new book

[seekerj]

I don't know why it's so important. The HOF has become a joke. Recent inductees are either acts should have been inducted YEARS earlier or acts that have little to do with rock, and the list of acts that still haven't been inducted is pretty amazing. And really, that moment for Fleetwood Mac passed 15 years ago. Bob wasn't included. Inducting him now won't change that.

:thumbsup:

[chiliD]

I don't know why it's so important. The HOF has become a joke. Recent inductees are either acts should have been inducted YEARS earlier or acts that have little to do with rock, and the list of acts that still haven't been inducted is pretty amazing. And really, that moment for Fleetwood Mac passed 15 years ago. Bob wasn't included. Inducting him now won't change that.

I think Pete Rose will be inducted to the Baseball HoF before Bob will be in the R&RHoF.

[MacShadowsBall]

Perhaps this should be merged with thread on the Pre-Rumours board? :shrug:

[louielouie2000]

Part of me is definitely cheering on Wendy for standing up for Bob's legacy, and for pushing back at the Rumours crew for their elitist nonsense. As many of us know, everyone from Bob to Judy Wong & Ken Caillat have been/were frozen out of contact with the Rumours folks. But the other part of me is thinking Wendy should do her dirty laundry outside of the public/fan's eyes. I know she's grieving over the tragic death of her husband, but I'm not sure Bob would have wanted to get into the RRHOF through public guilt & bullying.

[michelej1]

I wonder if all about this will be detailed in Mick's new book

I'm sure he will write about it, but I don't think we'll get the honest story.

Michele

[KarmaContestant]

I guess I am confused - were the Rumours lineup the only members of Fleetwood Mac to get inducted? For some reason, I believed it was all of the former members.

[SteveMacD]

I guess I am confused - were the Rumours lineup the only members of Fleetwood Mac to get inducted? For some reason, I believed it was all of the former members.
No. Just Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, and Danny Kirwan. Peter Green was with the band during the induction, but played "Black Magic Woman" with Santana.

[chiliD]

No. Just Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, and Danny Kirwan. Peter Green was with the band during the induction, but played "Black Magic Woman" with Santana.........whose original lineup also was inducted that evening. :nod:

[MacShadowsBall]

I guess I am confused - were the Rumours lineup the only members of Fleetwood Mac to get inducted? For some reason, I believed it was all of the former members.

No. Just Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, and Danny Kirwan. Peter Green was with the band during the induction, but played "Black Magic Woman" with Santana.

It's like they induct lineups versus the whole band or individual members of the band. Jeremy and Danny got inducted while Bob Welch didn't. For that matter neither did none of the Post-Rumours members. :cool:

[KarmaContestant]

Thanks, guys, for the clarification. It makes sense to me that Billy and Rick and Dave and Becka were excluded.

[Wouter Vuijk]

And how about Bob Brunning (the very first bass player, what if John MacVie would have rejected all along?) and Bob Weston?

[Wouter Vuijk]

I don't know why it's so important. The HOF has become a joke. Recent inductees are either acts should have been inducted YEARS earlier or acts that have little to do with rock, and the list of acts that still haven't been inducted is pretty amazing. And really, that moment for Fleetwood Mac passed 15 years ago. Bob wasn't included. Inducting him now won't change that.

It's actually called the Rock and Roll HOF. Peter, Jeremy and Danny (in his early FM days) were no R&R but BLUES!!!. So they should not have been inducted here but surely in a Blues HOF.
;)

[SteveMacD]

Thanks, guys, for the clarification. It makes sense to me that Billy and Rick and Dave and Becka were excluded.
Billy and Rick should have been inducted, too. They were in the second most successful version of Fleetwood Mac. "Behind The Mask" is the best selling Fleetwood Mac album outside of the Buckingham era. That was also the second longest running version of the band, and Billy was the longest tenured guitarist after Lindsey Buckingham. Sure, the only reason people paid attention was because it was the Rumours band minus Lindsey. But then again, the only reason people paid attention to Jeremy or Danny was because they were in Peter Green's band.

At a minimum, it should have been Mick, John, Christine, Stevie, Lindsey, Peter, Jeremy, Danny, Welch, Burnette, and Vito.

Mason, BTW, was inducted as a member of Traffic, which was very appropriate.
And how about Bob Brunning (the very first bass player, what if John MacVie would have rejected all along?) and Bob Weston?
Brunning by his own admission was a temp, and said something along the lines of it being a stretch calling him a member of Fleetwood Mac. I doubt the band would have lasted as long without John McVie.

It's actually called the Rock and Roll HOF. Peter, Jeremy and Danny (in his early FM days) were no R&R but BLUES!!!. So they should not have been inducted here but surely in a Blues HOF.
;)
"Then Play On" and "Kiln House" are not blues albums. "Albatross", "Man Of The World", and "The Green Manalishi" are not blues songs.

Anyway, a look at past inductees shows that, as far as the Hall is concerned, rock and blues are pretty much the same thing. There are country and jazz artists in there, too.

BLUES
Hank Ballard
Bobby “Blue” Bland
Charles Brown
Ruth Brown
Leonard Chess
Willie Dixon
Buddy Guy
John Lee Hooker
Howlin’ Wolf
Elmore James
Etta James
Little Willie John
Robert Johnson
Louis Jordan
Albert King
B.B. King
Freddie King
Leadbelly
Little Walter
Jelly Roll Morton
Ma Rainey
Jimmy Reed
Bessie Smith
Big Joe Turner
T-Bone Walker
Muddy Watters
Jimmy Yance

JAZZ
Herb Alpert & Jerry Moss
Louis Armstrong
LaVern Baker
Charlie Christian
Miles Davis
Billie Holiday
Dinah Washington

COUNTRY
Chet Atkins
Bob Wills & His Texas Playboys
Floyd Cramer
Jimmy Rogers
Hank Williams

BLUEGRASS
Bill Monroe

FOLK
Woody Guthrie
Pete Seeger

AND, OF COURSE...
Ray Charles (the ultimate cross-over artist, but not necessarily a rock-n-roller)

[The Catdancer]

I'm sorry to say this but why didn't they do anything when Bob was still alive?? They were inducted in 1998, he passed in 2012, that's 14(!!!) years later. Enough time to start petitions, contacting Mick, air dirty laundry about Christine etc. I understand that they want him inducted (I was very surprised he wasn't) but if Bob was so eager about it, why didn't he do anything about it himself? Or did he? BTW, on Mick's Facebook page a certain Gary Strade says that Lindsey signed the petition and commented that Bob should've been inducted alongside him... I don't know that I believe that.... He also posted the same thing on Fleetwood's on Front Street page. It's mostly him and Wendy Welch.

[aleuzzi]

BTW, on Mick's Facebook page a certain Gary Strade says that Lindsey signed the petition and commented that Bob should've been inducted alongside him... I don't know that I believe that.... He also posted the same thing on Fleetwood's on Front Street page. It's mostly him and Wendy Welch.

Yeah, I question the reliability of that information, too. I'll bet Lindsey had no trouble with Bob as a person, but I can't imagine him expending any energy in support of Bob's cause. In fact, I saw Lindsey about 24 hours after the announcement of Bob's suicide and he said nothing in his show. Not a peep. By that point, Stevie had already made a public statement. And a day later, Mick made his. It is possible Lindsey didn't know, but I highly doubt that.

[The Catdancer]

Yeah, I question the reliability of that information, too. I'll bet Lindsey had no trouble with Bob as a person, but I can't imagine him expending any energy in support of Bob's cause. In fact, I saw Lindsey about 24 hours after the announcement of Bob's suicide and he said nothing in his show. Not a peep. By that point, Stevie had already made a public statement. And a day later, Mick made his. It is possible Lindsey didn't know, but I highly doubt that.

I don't think Lindsey didn't/doesn't have a problem with Bob being inducted but I highly doubt he actually signed that petition. Anybody can make up an email address, sign his name and pretend to be him. I think he knew Bob had passed (someone mus have called him), maybe he just didn't know what to say.

[michelej1]

Wendy says on her Facebook page that Lindsey said a few years back that Bob should be in the RRHOF and she appreciated that, so that's in keeping with him signing a petition to that effect.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

Wendy says on her Facebook page that Lindsey said a few years back that Bob should be in the RRHOF and she appreciated that, so that's in keeping with him signing a petition to that effect.

Michele

Wendy said this. So I wonder...

But if Lindsey did sign the petition (and I hope he did) that might suggest the decision not to induct Welch into the Hall of Fame was a result of their committee and not the design of any particular FM members.

If Lindsey signed the petition, I am wondering why Stevie has not. She has been the most vocal member about Bob's passing and how wonderful he was.

[MacShadowsBall]

If Lindsey signed the petition, I am wondering why Stevie has not. She has been the most vocal member about Bob's passing and how wonderful he was.

I'm assuming this is an online petition? Stevie and the internet? :shrug:

[michelej1]

Wendy said this. So I wonder...



She posted, "He [Mick] has not posted on this site or his own that Bob should be in the RRHOF. Neither have John, Chris, or Stevie. I might add that Lindsey Buckingham did a few years back, which I greatly appreciated. They should put up a united front to get him in."



Michele

[shackin'up]

She posted, "He [Mick] has not posted on this site or his own that Bob should be in the RRHOF. Neither have John, Chris, or Stevie. I might add that Lindsey Buckingham did a few years back, which I greatly appreciated. They should put up a united front to get him in."



Michele

Well, if he did that a few years back, and she appreciated that greatly, Bob did too, I guess. That's enough for me, Although he could have stimulated the rest to stand up for that cause too. In my opinion, Bob is the only one who is not inducted, but should have been.

[Wendy Welch]

Christine did keep Bob Welch out of the HOF. and Mick couldn't turn her down. But the fact is that Bob was a pro rata share member of Fleetwood Mac and no one should have been able to keep him out of the HOF> He earned it! and he deserved to be in it. And that wrong still needs to be righted. I have to do that for Bob!


Also, I would like to say that this is the first time I have ever posted on this site. and I am very irritated. Bob never exaggerated anything, in fact he underplayed everything. Bob and I know the truth, 90% of which I can't talk about because of a gag order. So anything we have to say is the truth and nothing but the truth. I don't like him being put down for what he rightfully should have had and deserves. I hope you understand this battle. It may be 15 years after the fact, but it is never too late to right a wrong. He cared very much about the RRhOF and should have been inducted. He was very hurt because of a very vindictive move on someone's part that should have never happened. You should all understand that this is something he earned and deserves no matter how much time has passed. It is the one thing I will fight to right for him. He was a very important member of Fleetwood Mac and should be treated as such. He wrote and sang 1/2 of the songs on five albums, and played guitar on all of them, and did move them to their success in the US. No one can change that fact.

Wendy Welch
( Bob's wife Forever) and his sole heir, beneficiary, and administrator of his estate. By the way I inherited his facebook page and own it. and always presented my self as Wendy and never impersonated Bob, as someone claimed i did.

[Dr.Brown]

Wendy, first of all I wish to offer my condolences on your husband's passing. Thank you for posting here. It's fitting that your post is #110 as I support your efforts 110%. Bob was definitely an integral part of FM and deserves all the credit and respect which he is due. Until the day he is finally inducted in the RRHOF, this will remain a glaring and shameful omission.

[HomerMcvie]

Wendy, we all KNOW that Bob deserves to be in the RRHOF. Hopefully Mick will get off his lazy butt, and do something about it(I doubt it, though, unless he could make $50 bucks off of doing so).
But I sincerely hope that we get Bob in, eventually. He deserves it as much as ANY of them.

[Wendy Welch]

Thank you so much for your support. That is the most Bob or I could hope for!

[holidayroad]

To Wendy Welch: Thanks so much for posting here! Your husband was amazingly talented. I appreciate his music so much. I also appreciated how nice he was to fans. There was at least twice over the last 15 years that I emailed a question to him and he very nicely took his time to answer me.

[HomerMcvie]

To Wendy Welch: Thanks so much for posting here! Your husband was amazingly talented. I appreciate his music so much. I also appreciated how nice he was to fans. There was at least twice over the last 15 years that I emailed a question to him and he very nicely took his time to answer me.
I know. Bob and I had several exchanges on his site. He was extremely down to Earth, and a very pleasant guy. That touched me very much...

Come on, MICK. Do something that doesn't involve you making a buck! Do the right thing!

[dino]

Just listened to "Mystery To Me". Though mainly a fan of the first line-up (no secret), I really, really like it and prefer it to later stuff like "Rumours". Those are some beautiful and sensitive but also rockin' songs that Bob wrote for that album and the others. No way that the Mac would have survived without his massive input during those years.

[shackin'up]

Christine did keep Bob Welch out of the HOF. and Mick couldn't turn her down.

:shrug: How could that have happened, Wendy? And where was John? I guess Stevie and Lindsey had no real voice in this matter....

[HomerMcvie]

:shrug: How could that have happened, Wendy? And where was John? I guess Stevie and Lindsey had no real voice in this matter....

It was near the time they were going through litigation over royalties owed to Bob. It's my understanding that she refused to be a part of the ceremony, if Bob was inducted.

But that's only me putting it all together. I would love to hear Wendy's take on it, if I understand it correctly.

[The Catdancer]

:shrug: How could that have happened, Wendy? And where was John? I guess Stevie and Lindsey had no real voice in this matter....

It was near the time they were going through litigation over royalties owed to Bob. It's my understanding that she refused to be a part of the ceremony, if Bob was inducted.

But that's only me putting it all together. I would love to hear Wendy's take on it, if I understand it correctly.

See, this is what I don't understand. Where were the others when all of this happened?! And I have read Bob's Q&A last Sunday and he clearly stated that it had to do with the board of the RRHOF (I'll have to look up that quote).

Wendy, I would love for Bob to be inducted as he played a big part in Fleetwood Mac's history, I was very surprised he wasn't. But the story that Christine was the only one who prevented that, doesn't make any sense. Like shackin'up said, where was John and surely Stevie & Lindsey had some say in the matter. Please enlighten us. And for the record, I love Bob's music. Thanks!

This is from the Q&A session August 4 - 17 2003:

Sorry Bob, if this is a bit of a touchy subject/question to ask of you. Do you think that your 1994 lawsuit against Fleetwood Mac for unpaid back F.M. royalties affected you being inducted into the Rn'R HoF with Fleetwood Mac ? (name withheld)

No, I really now think that the RRHOF board in New York didn't like me. Seymour Stein, one of the board members is a "punk-rocker" after all. I didn't make it onto their "cool" chart because I had a few pop singles, and I guess I didn't cut it on their "Tom Petty Logarithmic Scale of Rock Venerability" ;-)
Of course it didn't HELP that I couldn't speak to Mick during all this....because of the then ongoing lawsuit.

He said it didn't help he couldn't talk to Mick but he didn't say anything about Christine....

[aleuzzi]

See, this is what I don't understand. Where were the others when all of this happened?! And I have read Bob's Q&A last Sunday and he clearly stated that it had to do with the board of the RRHOF (I'll have to look up that quote).

Wendy, I would love for Bob to be inducted as he played a big part in Fleetwood Mac's history, I was very surprised he wasn't. But the story that Christine was the only one who prevented that, doesn't make any sense. Like shackin'up said, where was John and surely Stevie & Lindsey had some say in the matter. Please enlighten us. And for the record, I love Bob's music. Thanks!

This is from the Q&A session August 4 - 17 2003:



He said it didn't help he couldn't talk to Mick but he didn't say anything about Christine....

Thank you for this, Catdancer.

And let's say Christine did insist Bob was not to be included: the fact that the rest of the band allowed that decision to be made makes all of them culpable.

I love Bob's music, too, and in the couple of email exchanges I shared with him, he seemed like a really cool guy. He deserves to be inducted. But I think it's really offensive to blame one person about this. Christine served the FM cause for 28 years (not including guest appearances on other albums). She's retired now and should be left alone. Period.

[MacShadowsBall]

I've had some time to think about this. Sorry if this offends but it's just my opinion. :sorry:



I don't fault Mick for agreeing with Christine. She was a current member of the band and had been for 28 years while all others left. You should support your current bandmates just like an employer should support current employees over former members/employees. Think of it this way Mick is an employer who had a former employee cause a major issue with his company and staff. He supported his current staff in an attack from a former employee. In other words, Bob should have been inducted, but Mick felt it was more important to keep his current band happy than to satisfy a former bandmate from 20+ years earlier. In the end, Bob was right to fight for his royalities and his induction.

Again, sorry if this offends anyone....:sorry:

[jbrownsjr]

It doesn't offend me. Nothing can take away how amazing Bob Welch was and he totally deserved to be inducted. He'll always be one of my favorite musicians.

Having said that..

Two FMac members not getting along!!?? Groundbreaking!!!
Band politics within Fleetwood Mac? Unreal!!!
Politics and stupidity within the Rock Hall? Unheard of!!!

[redbird]

I dunno, I'm not impressed with Mick in this whole story. No Bob wasn't going to come back to help his band but, come on dude, have a little integrity.

As for Chris ... :shrug: sad to hear, anyway.

[Wendy Welch]

I don't care who you are, you can't rewrite history, rock and roll or otherwise. Plus you can't deprive a person from their own legacy and what they have earned and deserve! Would you allow that to be done to your loved one?

[michelej1]

First I would say that I would think that it's in the hands of the RRHOF more than the band. So, unless we knew more about how the band possibly influenced the RRHOF or made the decision in its place, I don't know what to think.

Secondly, I'd have to agree with what MacShadowsBall said. No, it's not fair. Bob deserved to be included and no petty resentments should have kept him out. It should not have happened. But I understand why Christine was angry and I understand that her bandmates supported her. If she was responsible for him being excluded, she was wrong. BUT I understand them deciding to be wrong with her. I want the 5 of them to have solidarity, in the end. Right or wrong. It would have been nice if they'd tried to change her mind and reason with her. But for any one of them to say, "Sorry, if you feel that way, then we're going to do what's just and you'll just have to stay home, because we're insisting that Bob be included," would have been unthinkable. I'd rather have them all be immoral together than to even think of not standing with her, if she didn't back down.

Obviously, Wendy I understand why you're fighting to right a wrong. Anyone would in your place.

Michele

[wetcamelfood]

Jeremy & Danny were inducted and weren't present and that wasn't seen as a big deal. If they said to Christine "fine don't go if you don't want to but we're inducting everyone" then at the end of the day, the result would be there. Peter was there but played separately with Santana instead, no one complained about that. Even though the 5 fireflies played together later in the show, S&L without the others kicked off the show with the 2 acoustic tracks, no one complained. Look at when Dave Mason & Steve Winwood hugged when Traffic was inducted yet they didn't play together that night and the stories came out later that Winwood wouldn't play with him so the RRHOF ended up doing the separate performances but as far as I know Traffic fans aren't complaining that both were inducted & that they didn't play together (though they may have been surprised they didn't when seeing the hug earlier in the show). JMHO though. :)

John

[holidayroad]

Why is any big decision like this left to the musicians? Shouldn't the RRHOF be the one who has the final say as to who is in and who is out??

[Dr.Brown]

If she was responsible for him being excluded, she was wrong. BUT I understand them deciding to be wrong with her. I want the 5 of them to have solidarity, in the end. Right or wrong.

I'd rather have them all be immoral together than to even think of not standing with her, if she didn't back down.

Michele

Wow...

Hypothetical: If Stevie one day goes off on a homophobic rant thus alienating her gay fanbase (a la Michelle Shocked) would you also expect solidarity from "the 5" right or wrong?

I really don't mean this as a personal attack, but I find this kind of slavish devotion (re: "I'd rather have them all be immoral together...") indicative of a very cult-like mentality. :distress:

[forever]

I don't know the ins and outs of the RRHOF induction process but I would hope that the band could now put aside any past differences to at least speak up for Bob Welch's posthumous induction.

I understand that there's a Bob Welch tribute album in the works, and that Fleetwood Mac needs to okay covers of the songs he did while with the band. I hope that can happen soon.

[michelej1]

Wow...

Hypothetical: If Stevie one day goes off on a homophobic rant thus alienating her gay fanbase (a la Michelle Shocked) would you also expect solidarity from "the 5" right or wrong?

I really don't mean this as a personal attack, but I find this kind of slavish devotion (re: "I'd rather have them all be immoral together...") indicative of a very cult-like mentality. :distress:

I am talking about business immorality in terms of corporate decisions and loyalty, not involving societal issues and not involving actual crimes.

I don't think I am in any danger of being a cultist.

Michele

[michelej1]

Jeremy & Danny were inducted and weren't present and that wasn't seen as a big deal. If they said to Christine "fine don't go if you don't want to but we're inducting everyone" then at the end of the day, the result would be there. Peter was there but played separately with Santana instead, no one complained about that. Even though the 5 fireflies played together later in the show, S&L without the others kicked off the show with the 2 acoustic tracks, no one complained. Look at when Dave Mason & Steve Winwood hugged when Traffic was inducted yet they didn't play together that night and the stories came out later that Winwood wouldn't play with him so the RRHOF ended up doing the separate performances but as far as I know Traffic fans aren't complaining that both were inducted & that they didn't play together (though they may have been surprised they didn't when seeing the hug earlier in the show). JMHO though. :)

John

The example you gave from other bands just makes it all the more inconceivable to me that the RRHOF would leave the inclusion decision up to the band. I don't think they would, especially since there are many band members out there who hate each other's guts.

As far as Christine staying home, I was upset enough about Stevie and Lindsey doing Big Love and Landslide alone. Those weren't recorded as duets. If Christine hadn't been present and had not only performed SYLM but did so in a way which put the five of them and what they created together at the forefront of the performance, then I would have thought the entire ceremony was rather invalid. I don't know about other fans, but I never would have stopped complaining about her not being there. Some people feel that way about Bob, but in Mick's place, if he made any choice between Christine and Bob, he made what I think was the obvious one.

The fact is, in light of the lawsuit, Christine probably wasn't alone in her antipathy towards Bob at the time. I would find it hard to believe that John wasn't as upset as she was. If Mick was put in the position of deciding whether or not to side with John and Christine, it's a no brainer to me. The timing no doubt impacted their judgment and probably caused them to minimize his contributions in their minds.

Of course, I don't think Christine was always right. I was just down in the Stevie forum earlier this week expressing shock over a homophobic remark Christine supposedly made to Status Quo members in the sixties. But I don't place this RRHOF kerfuffle on the same level at all. One involves band politics and the other social injustice.

At any rate, she just said something nice about Welch in Mojo, maybe at this point they might be all willing to unite and support something posthumous, as suggested.

Michele

[Dr.Brown]

I am talking about business immorality in terms of corporate decisions and loyalty, not involving societal issues and not involving actual crimes.

I'm glad you clarified that but I still don't agree with this attitude. "Business immorality", I guess that means "the 5" get a free pass then and it was just peachy of them leaving a former band member out of loop when it came to royalty payments since this did not involve "actual crimes". :rolleyes:

At any rate, she just said something nice about Welch in Mojo, maybe at this point they might be all willing to unite and support something posthumous, as suggested.

Okay, at last here we can agree. :nod:

[michelej1]

I'm glad you clarified that

It really didn't need clarification. We're talking about a musical commendation, not murder. And I don't know why a statement about one thing would lead you to extrapolate and apply what I said to prejudice.


but I still don't agree with this attitude. "Business immorality", I guess that means "the 5" get a free pass then and it was just peachy of them leaving a former band member out of loop when it came to royalty payments since this did not involve "actual crimes". :rolleyes:


I didn't say it was peachy. I expressly said it was wrong. I also said that the rest of them should have tried to talk her out of it, if she actually took that stance. But if they couldn't, then I appreciate the solidarity. It doesn't mean they get "a free pass." It means that if they go down, they go down together. I like the "all for one, one for all attitude."

My grandmother had 3 sons, they were all 15 months apart and she used to tell me how if one was walking home and he saw his brother engaged in a fight with someone else, he just threw down his bookbags and he started fighting the third person too. He didn't ask questions about what the fight was about. That came later. During the fight, if you're hitting one brother, you're hitting them all.

If John, Mick and Christine were still bruised by Bob's lawsuit, I don't care that Stevie and Lindsey followed along, even if their conduct was petty. I like the familial idea that we may fight each other, but we have a bond that makes us band together against anyone else. In fact, I've often lamented that those 5 FM members don't seem more loyal to each other than they are.

I've said this before on this board, but it is always something that I admired about Cher. She did nothing but blast Sonny and I hated her for it, but I never once heard her let anyone else say anything negative about him in her presence. I don't care how minor or valid it was. Katie Couric criticized his singing voice and as nasal and awful as it was, Cher said to her, "What's your point? Bob Dylan has a nasal voice too." Cher knocked Sonny, but she didn't let anyone else do it.

I'd rather Mick side with Christine than Bob, if he had to pick sides. Maybe he shouldn't have had to, but I don't fault his choice.

Clearly, you don't agree, but I don't think it's a cult mentality. I think it's a team mentality.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

If John, Mick and Christine were still bruised by Bob's lawsuit, I don't care that Stevie and Lindsey followed along, even if their conduct was petty.

And I wouldn't suggest it was petty at all. I'm really not sure it was any of their business, so maybe they just stayed out of it. I mean, I know they were friends with Bob and respected him, but they weren't involved in the lawsuit, and their tenure in the band didn't overlap with his, so while they (like anyone) might have an opinion about whether he should be inducted, they shouldn't really have any decision-making power.

[michelej1]

And I wouldn't suggest it was petty at all. I'm really not sure it was any of their business, so maybe they just stayed out of it. I mean, I know they were friends with Bob and respected him, but they weren't involved in the lawsuit, and their tenure in the band didn't overlap with his, so while they (like anyone) might have an opinion about whether he should be inducted, they shouldn't really have any decision-making power.

That's a good point and let's be honest, even though Stevie listened to the previous albums from "back to front," I don't know if she and Lindsey have that much of an idea of what Bob meant to Fleetwood Mac before they came. I'm not sure they did that much homework on their own band and may not know what fans know about what Bob did in front of the scenes for FM, much less behind them. So, it does make more sense to put this on the shoulders of the 3 people who were bandmates with Bob.


Michele

[SteveMacD]

And I wouldn't suggest it was petty at all. I'm really not sure it was any of their business, so maybe they just stayed out of it. I mean, I know they were friends with Bob and respected him, but they weren't involved in the lawsuit, and their tenure in the band didn't overlap with his, so while they (like anyone) might have an opinion about whether he should be inducted, they shouldn't really have any decision-making power.
I agree with this. It wasn't Stevie's or Lindsey's decision.

I get that the two incarnations that had hit singles and albums are the ones that were inducted, and really, with the early Mac, it was all about Peter as far as being the star of the band. So, they got the picture of Mick, John, and the four who wrote the big hits. I've never agreed with that decision, but I understand it. Bob Welch, Billy Burnette, and Rick Vito should have also been inducted.

But that whole night was such an anti-climactic event. They did "Big Love", "Landslide", and the acoustic version of "Say You Love Me". I would much rather have had "Oh Well" (with Peter on vocals), "Dreams", and the "Rhiannon-Go Your Own Way-Don't Stop" melody they did shortly thereafter. Plus, there was no big all-band jam (of course, half the bands inducted had restraining orders...). I mean, no "Rattlesnake Shake" with Peter Green, Lindsey Buckingham, and Joe Walsh???

[aleuzzi]

I too was disappointed with the RRHOF performances. Why the two duets? Why the acoustic Say You Love Me? I got the sense that the band didn't want to deal with trucking a lot of equipment to the event, and if that's the case that is lame.

Would I have loved to have seen Bob Welch and Bob Weston there? Absolutely! I was as annoyed at their absence as I was at the video narrative before the speeches where the mid-period was completely undervalued and underplayed.

All this selective presentation also kept out Burnette and Vito (their absence bothered me much less than that of the two Bobs). So I am still not convinced this was any one band member's call to make, but rather the decision of the board of the RRHOF.

But, as I have said many times, even if one person were vocal about keeping Bob out, the rest of the band's silence and acceptance of it makes them equally culpable. Blaming Christine as THE ONE responsible is as selective as including only certain members of the band into the RRHOF.

[MacShadowsBall]

I'm afraid we won't ever really know what happened. People involved will give his or her take/opinion on it but opinions are colored by one's past experiences. :shrug:

[aleuzzi]

I'm afraid we won't ever really know what happened. People involved will give his or her take/opinion on it but opinions are colored by one's past experiences. :shrug:

Yeah, but all I am saying is the entire band is responsible for the omission of Welch--even, admittedly to a lesser extent, Stevie and Lindsey. If anyone thought his cause was worth fighting for, he or she should have fought for it.

I wish he got to play something on stage with them.

[SteveMacD]

All this selective presentation also kept out Burnette and Vito (their absence bothered me much less than that of the two Bobs). So I am still not convinced this was any one band member's call to make, but rather the decision of the board of the RRHOF.
I was more bothered about Burnette/Vito than Weston. They were in the band longer, played many more shows, and the band sold more records. Basically, there were two albums worth of material released between 1988-1992 and a live video, which means Vito's time was as productive as Weston's. The case is even stronger for Billy, having been in the band for another album and two summer tours.

BTW, the "other" album's worth of material released was:
As Long As You Follow
No Questions Asked
Roll With Me Henry
Lizard People
Paper Doll
Love Shines
Heart Of Stone
Stand Back

[Wendy Welch]

If I don't get you to understand one thing, it will be the following: The RRHOF picks the band to be inducted, the band picks the member! That's why the Grateful Dead even has it's background singers in the RRHOF, because they wanted them. So give up blaming the hall of fame.:blob2:
Weston was kept out because he had a fling with Mick's wife, Bob was kept up because Christine McVie is small minded and petty after the lawsuit and Mick, who owns the name, wouldn't cross her. Bekka, Vito and Burnette were left out because they never became contractual legal members of the band . Several days before they were supposed to become that, they were fired and that was wrong. But the rhythm section (Mick and John) put out a new Fleetwood Mac because they owned the name and the others wouldn't play. Not much different than what the manager Clifford Davis did. But they should have been in there as well.

[Wendy Welch]

I have read all of your comments and I believe it has nothing to do with what you are arguing about. Bob was an equal member of Fleetwood Mac and earned his place in the Hall of Fame, no matter who thought what. History can not be changed by an unwarranted deletion. It's not a matter of sticking together, it's a matter of FACT. Also, he was only suing for monies he earned and should have been paid as a pro rata share member of that band and not a dime more. I now wish we had taken it to court and I could now be able to speak about the injustice that I feel. Bob deserved being in the hall of fame and that is not up to anyone to be able to delete. Also, they are not keeping Bob from putting out any re-recordings, we have already done that. We wanted to put out the Tribute album of Bob's old Fleetwood Mac original songs that he played and sang and wrote, nothing more. It would only make money for Fleetwood Mac members, where on the re-records, I now make all the money and don't have to share it with FM. That album would have only taken money out of my pocket and put money into theirs and have competed only with the re-records I legally have out that Bob did prior to his death. I just felt Bob deserved that record. But I must have Mick, John and Chris to sign off on it. So what is there to argue about in anyone's favor but Bob Welch's.

[Phil]

What I don't understand about any of this, is why Bob was not named as an inductee, regardless of whether he attended the ceremony or not. Whilst I disagree with Christine's extremely petty insistence that he not be present (as he most definitely should have been), I just can't accept that her vitriol would extend to ignoring his contribution to the band outright. For this, she and whoever else was complicit in the decision, ought to be thoroughly ashamed.
In regard to Christine recently singling out Bob's talent and the Mystery To Me album in the January 2013 editon of Mojo magazine, I wonder if she is now at all regretful of her actions 15 years earlier?

[Phil]

Hypothetical: If Stevie one day goes off on a homophobic rant thus alienating her gay fanbase (a la Michelle Shocked)

If only she would! How hilarious would that be? Imagine the multitude of turn-coats vowing never to forgive, until of course, the next opportunity to ingratiate themselves presented itself...

[BombaySapphire3]

If only she would! How hilarious would that be? Imagine the multitude of turn-coats vowing never to forgive, until of course, the next opportunity to ingratiate themselves presented itself...

Ain't gonna happen ..La Nicks knows which side her bread is buttered on .Besides if La Nicks went on a homophobic rant that would most likely indicate that she has succumbed to born again evangelical Christianity ..meaning the Rhiannon garb and her entire mystical image that she has spent all these decades cultivating would be in the Salvation Army bin.....fat chance.

[Phil]

Yes, but I wonder how she secretly feels?

[The Catdancer]

If I don't get you to understand one thing, it will be the following: The RRHOF picks the band to be inducted, the band picks the member! That's why the Grateful Dead even has it's background singers in the RRHOF, because they wanted them. So give up blaming the hall of fame.:blob2:
Weston was kept out because he had a fling with Mick's wife, Bob was kept up because Christine McVie is small minded and petty after the lawsuit and Mick, who owns the name, wouldn't cross her. Bekka, Vito and Burnette were left out because they never became contractual legal members of the band . Several days before they were supposed to become that, they were fired and that was wrong. But the rhythm section (Mick and John) put out a new Fleetwood Mac because they owned the name and the others wouldn't play. Not much different than what the manager Clifford Davis did. But they should have been in there as well.

I think the timeline is a little off. Billy was still a part of Fleetwood Mac when they did the Time album, Rick had already left (or was fired, he never said what happened) and what do you mean by "Mick & John put out a new Fleetwood Mac because they owned the name and the others wouldn't play"? Which others? After the Time album, Stevie & Lindsey came back, hardly a "new" Fleetwood Mac. They didn't need other players. Or is that the reason why Billy, Bekka and Dave Mason were fired?? I'm all confused now... :shrug:

[BombaySapphire3]

Yes, but I wonder how she secretly feels?
With apologizes for sidetracking this thread into the realm of the twirling Gypsy I will say in her defense that way back in the summer of 1985 a few months before the release of RAL that Stevie had been scheduled to perform at an AIDS benefit at as I recall the Los Angeles colliseum with a bunch of other acts,many of them not even musical. For some reason the event never did take place.I will say at that time that there were precious few then at her level of rock stardom that would have associated themselves with that cause,when AIDS was considered purely a gay male disease by most.This was at time when the President of the U.S. would not even utter the word AIDS even as he and Nancy's old friend Rock Hudson was dying of the disease.So judging from this I would say that the woman never really had a homophobic bone in her body.

[The Catdancer]

I have read all of your comments and I believe it has nothing to do with what you are arguing about. Bob was an equal member of Fleetwood Mac and earned his place in the Hall of Fame, no matter who thought what. History can not be changed by an unwarranted deletion. It's not a matter of sticking together, it's a matter of FACT. Also, he was only suing for monies he earned and should have been paid as a pro rata share member of that band and not a dime more. I now wish we had taken it to court and I could now be able to speak about the injustice that I feel. Bob deserved being in the hall of fame and that is not up to anyone to be able to delete. Also, they are not keeping Bob from putting out any re-recordings, we have already done that. We wanted to put out the Tribute album of Bob's old Fleetwood Mac original songs that he played and sang and wrote, nothing more. It would only make money for Fleetwood Mac members, where on the re-records, I now make all the money and don't have to share it with FM. That album would have only taken money out of my pocket and put money into theirs and have competed only with the re-records I legally have out that Bob did prior to his death. I just felt Bob deserved that record. But I must have Mick, John and Chris to sign off on it. So what is there to argue about in anyone's favor but Bob Welch's.

Considering the fact that they wouldn't induct him in the RRHOF and there's money to be made off of his recordings, I think the chances are rather slim of them signing off on it :(

[michelej1]

I too was disappointed with the RRHOF performances. Why the two duets? Why the acoustic Say You Love Me? I got the sense that the band didn't want to deal with trucking a lot of equipment to the event, and if that's the case that is lame.



Wouldn't there be equipment there for them to use in place of their own? I mean, I'm sure they could have scrounged up a piano, a drum kit. Go knocking door to door for a guitar.

I was disappointed in the two duets and wish they had been replaced with band songs. But I was extremely happy with SYLM and thought the acoustic performance helped us focus on the band at its core. stripped all the money, back up singers, and extra musicians away and left 5 people standing up there playing together.

As for Christine being the one who did it, who says that? Mick? I find it wrong of him to have singled her out, if that's indeed what he did. A decision was made. For him to say, "Wendy, it's not me. It was really Christine who didn't want him in and there was nothing I could do," is really backstabbing from both ends of the story, backstabbing Christine and Bob. So, I don't know if he did that, but if so, it's really deceitful.

At any rate, I wouldn't take his account as true. I don't know how the RRHOF works. I thought reading Bob's comments that Catdancer posted here was very helpful and I believe what he said about why the RRHOF didn't choose him and their pop prejudice. So, I'll just accept that. But if Mick did say that Christine kept him out, I wouldn't believe Mick. I think he was just trying to escape his own hand in the matter. I think if the band was involved in the decision at all, it would be Mick, John and Christine together. I don't know if Stevie and Lindsey would be involved or not, but there are only 2 of them anyway. If there was a vote, they could have voted against inclusion and lost. I don't see any reason for them to run to the press on Bob's behalf. That would not be right.

In fact, this public shaming approach is not an effective way to resolve problems. I remember how hurt Bob was when Wendy was sick and he named the people who would not help raise money. As a fan, I found his statements illuminating, but I also think speaking out to the public about his disappointment probably hardened FM members against him. I don't think outing people is the way to get them to change their minds. It makes the problem worse. What Mick may have done is even trickier, because it sounds like he tried to out Christine to the Welches, but didn't want anyone else to know he was blaming her. So, yikes.

Michele

[michelej1]

Yes, but I wonder how she secretly feels?

I think she probably knows a lot of gay people and is fine with it. I don't think she'd want anyone to think she was gay though. But I could even be wrong about that. I think the way she handled Crash and Annabel Lee lyrics kind of shows she's not hyper paranoid.

Frankly, I think John and Christine are the less tolerant members of the bunch. And even saying that is talking about things they did or said decades ago, not recent acts.

Michele

[jenniferuk]

The Plain Dealer (02/15/1998), Rock Hall Snubs Welch; Induction Process Called Political and Arbitrary

The Plain Dealer, February 15, 1998

Rock Hall Snubs Welch; Induction Process Called Political and Arbitrary
By Michael Norman; Plain Dealer Music Critic

How do you leave Bob Welch out of the history of Fleetwood Mac and include Donna Jean Godchaux as a key player in the story of the Grateful Dead?

It apparently makes complete sense to music industry insiders who run the New York-based Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation and control the induction process for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

The foundation bestowed its highest honor on Godchaux, who sang backing vocals with the Dead from 1971-79. She was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a member of the band in 1994.

But when Fleetwood Mac was inducted into the rock hall last month in New York, Welch was snubbed - despite the fact that he was a key member of Fleetwood Mac from 1971 to 1975, and sang lead vocals, played guitar and wrote many of the songs on five of the band's studio albums.

The individuals inducted as members of Fleetwood Mac were Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks. Three early members of the group - Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer and Danny Kirwan - were also inducted.

Was Welch's omission an oversight?

Welch doesn't think so. He left the group in 1975 to pursue a solo career and now works as a full-time songwriter in Nashville. He believes it was retribution for a royalties lawsuit he filed in Los Angeles County Superior Court in 1994. The defendants were Mick Fleetwood and Christine and John McVie.

Welch, who alleged that he was underpaid royalties on the recordings he made with Fleetwood Mac, says the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum. But filing the suit didn't exactly endear him to his former bandmates. He believes they pressured the rock hall to exclude him from the induction.

Fleetwood Mac's publicist at Warner Bros. Records did not return phone calls seeking comment on Welch's allegations. But the rock hall's New York-based executive director Suzan Evans denies the charges, saying that inductees are selected "solely on the basis of artistic merit."

That said, the foundation does have a history of caving to political pressure when it comes to deciding which band members will be inducted.

Godchaux earned her spot in the hall of fame because the Grateful Dead's acknowledged leader, Jerry Garcia, demanded the rock hall induct everyone who ever played in the group. The 12 inducted members of the Grateful Dead include Tom Constanten, who played keyboards from 1968-70; Keith Godchaux (Donna's husband), who played keyboards from 1971-79; and Robert Hunter, who was Garcia's lyricist.

"I give Jerry Garcia credit for standing up for those people," says Welch. "I'm really disappointed about being overlooked by Fleetwood Mac. It basically comes down to the fact that they don't like me anymore.

"I guess they can do what they want. I could understand it if I had been a sideman for a year. But I was an integral part of that band for five years. I put more of myself into that band than anything else I've ever done."

Rewriting history?

Most American rock fans know Fleetwood Mac as the supergroup that produced the best-selling 1977 album, "Rumours." That band - which featured Fleetwood, the McVies, Buckingham and Nicks - formed in 1975 and broke up in 1987. They recently reunited for a North American concert tour and have released a new live album, "The Dance."

But Fleetwood Mac actually began as a blues-rock group in England in 1967 with a lineup that featured Fleetwood (drums), John McVie (bass), Peter Green (lead guitars and vocals) and Jeremy Spencer (vocals and guitars). Fleetwood, McVie and Green had all served stints in John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, the legendary British blues band best known for nurturing the early career of Eric Clapton.

Under Green's leadership, Fleetwood Mac became one of the most popular acts in England during the 1960s, releasing bluesy rock albums (including "English Rose" and "Then Play On") and hit singles ("Albatross," "Black Magic Woman").

The original quartet later expanded to include Christine McVie and vocalist-guitarist Danny Kirwan. Green left the group in 1970 to join a religious cult. Welch replaced him in 1971.

Welch's influence on the group was dramatic. The California-born vocalist, guitarist and songwriter helped the band forge a new, pop-rock style. In fact, a strong argument can be made that without Welch's contributions, Fleetwood Mac would not have been in the position to make "Rumours" in 1977. Welch pushed the band toward the pop mainstream in albums such as "Future Games," "Bare Trees," and "Heroes Are Hard to Find."

"My era was the bridge era," says Welch. "It was a transition. But it was an important period in the history of the band. Mick Fleetwood dedicated a whole chapter of his biography to my era of the band and credited me with 'saving Fleetwood Mac.' Now they want to write me out of the history of the group. It hurts.'

After leaving Fleetwood Mac, Welch built a successful career as a solo artist and as the leader of a band called Paris. (His 1977 solo album, "French Kiss," was a best seller and included a hit remake of "Sentimental Lady," which he originally wrote for Fleetwood Mac.) He has lived in Nashville with his wife, Wendy, since 1992.

"The whole incident with the rock hall is embarrassing to me personally," he says. "Nashville is a real tight knit music community. People here are constantly asking me why I wasn't inducted with the band.

"Mick and I co-managed the group for years. I'm the one who brought the band to Los Angeles from England, which put them in the position of hooking up with Lindsey and Stevie. I saw the band through a whole period where they barely survived, literally."

Who's in, who's out

The rock hall's induction process seems simple enough on the surface.

Artists are eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first recording. Nominees are selected each year by a 31-person committee, currently co-chaired by Seymour Stein, president and chief executive officer of Sire Records, and Jon Landau, manager of Bruce Springsteen, Shania Twain and other prominent pop and rock stars. Ballots are mailed to an international group of more than 800 writers, artists, producers, broadcasters and music industry executives. The top five artists with 50 percent or more of the vote are supposedly inducted.

But like many things in the music business, it's wise to pay attention to the fine print. The committee doesn't have the final say on the artists to be nominated. It makes recommendations to the New York foundation's executive board - a 14-person committee led by Atlantic Records' co-founder Ahmet M. Ertegun and Rolling Stone magazine publisher Jann S. Wenner.

The executive board either accepts or rejects the recommendations. More importantly, the board has final say on which members of the nominated bands should be included for induction.

The 800 rock hall voters have no say on which members of a nominated band are inducted. By the time they get the ballots, that decision has been made.

But how does the executive board decide who gets in and who doesn't? Evans says the decision is made by the "music experts on the board."

The decision isn't that difficult (or potentially controversial) with groups such as the Beatles or the Who, who performed with the same key personnel over the years. But when a band has gone through numerous lineup changes like Fleetwood Mac or Parliament-Funkadelic, things can get sticky.

"Do you bring in everybody or do you try to isolate the essential creative forces in a group?" asks Robert Hilburn, popular music critic for the Los Angeles Times and a member of the rock hall nominating committee. "It can get to be a never-ending argument. Take George Clinton and Parliament-Funkadelic.

"The band went through so many lineup changes that we ended up going to an outside expert for recommendations on who to induct."

In the end, 16 individuals were inducted into the hall of fame as members of Parliament-Funkadelic in 1997. That's a very generous definition of who made "essential" creative contributions to Parliament-Funkadelic. It also makes Welch's omission from Fleetwood Mac more puzzling.

Adding to the confusion is that some members of the nominating committee recall discussing Welch's nomination, and some don't.

Hilburn says the issue never came up in meetings he attended. The same goes for James Henke, rock hall chief curator and deputy director, and Bob Merlis, Warner Bros. Records senior vice president of media relations.

One committee member, who asked that his name not be used, said he did recall Welch's name coming up "late in the process" at a meeting not attended by all members of the nominating committee.

"It was a judgment call," he said. "Fleetwood Mac was inducted for its original incarnation as an English blues-rock band and for the version that came together in the mid-1970s that became so famously successful with the release of the album 'Rumours.'

"An argument was made that the band that Bob Welch was part of was not of hall of fame caliber."

Who made that argument is unclear. Evans would not discuss details of the discussions held during meetings. "All I can say is that the executive board made the final decision to induct the original members of Fleetwood Mac, plus the Americans - Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham," said Evans.

Evans dismissed suggestions that the decision seems inconsistent with those made in the past about other groups, including the Grateful Dead and Parliament-Funkadelic.

"It's hard to make comparisons when you are talking about two different bands," said Evans. "It's like comparing apples to oranges. Each band is taken on a case by case basis."

A question of consistency

The apples-and-oranges argument doesn't wash with critics of the induction process.

"The thing that bothers me most about it is the secretive, clubby nature of the whole process," says one rock industry insider with close connections to an inducted band.

"When my band was inducted, the issue of which people would be included in the group was the subject of intense negotiation with the board in New York. For them to say that politics is not a part of the process is just not true. It certainly was in our case."

Welch isn't the only artist to be snubbed in this fashion by the foundation.

Smokey Robinson was inducted into the rock hall as a solo artist in 1987, even though he made his most famous Motown recordings with a band - the Miracles. The other original Miracles - Ronnie White, Bobby Rogers, Pete Moore, Claudette Rogers Robinson and guitarist Marv Tarplin were not inducted. Things can also get confusing when a band is led by a high-profile front man or named after one.

There were reportedly heated debates in the rock hall nominating and executive committees in 1992 over whether to induct Jimi Hendrix as a solo artist or as a member of the Jimi Hendrix Experience - the band name under which his classic albums were released.

In the end, the rock hall decided to go with the Jimi Hendrix Experience and inducted drummer Mitch Mitchell and bassist Noel Redding along with Hendrix.

They did not bestow the same honor on the Buddy Holly's band the Crickets. Holly was inducted as a solo artist in 1986, even though his debut recording, "That'll Be the Day," was released under the Crickets name.

Questions about the rock hall induction process are sure to intensify next year when Bruce Springsteen becomes eligible. Do you induct Springsteen as a solo artist or as Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band?

Based on the precedent set with the Jimi Hendrix Experience, it should be Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band.

Then again, consistency hasn't been a rock hall trademark.

"I hope they do the right thing and recognize the E Street Band," says Welch. "Right now, I feel like one of those purged Soviet leaders who got erased from the photographs of the Kremlin reviewing stand.

"But they can't erase the music. It's still there, and I was a part of it - no matter what Fleetwood Mac and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame say."

Thanks to Anusha for posting this to The Ledge and for sending it to us.

[michelej1]

The Plain Dealer (02/15/1998), Rock Hall Snubs Welch; Induction Process Called Political and Arbitrary



This does shed light on the RRHOF's process. Thank you.

Michele

[jenniferuk]

This does shed light on the RRHOF's process. Thank you.

Michele

I am sorry that I forgot about that one until now. I read recently that Axl Rose disagreed with the rrhof induction list for Guns and that is part of the reason he refused to be inducted.

http://gawker.com/5901319/axl-rose-tells-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-thanks-but-no-thanks-for-guns-n-roses-induction

I fully support the induction of Bob Welch and was very upset about his exclusion. However, it seems the RRHOF process is seriously flawed.

[aleuzzi]

... I think if the band was involved in the decision at all, it would be Mick, John and Christine together....

In fact, this public shaming approach is not an effective way to resolve problems. I remember how hurt Bob was when Wendy was sick and he named the people who would not help raise money. As a fan, I found his statements illuminating, but I also think speaking out to the public about his disappointment probably hardened FM members against him. I don't think outing people is the way to get them to change their minds. It makes the problem worse.../\.

Michele

I entirely agree with the above.

I also agree the acoustic SYLM at the ceremony was excellent. Though I would have wished for additional songs as an ensemble. The Chain, for example, would have been entirely appropriate. I have no idea why they didn't do this, and it seems to me they were trying to do it easy and fast--sans large equipment. That's my guess.

[MacShadowsBall]

Fascinating yet confusing article. I seems that the RRHOF has a even larger influence on what bands and who in the band gets inducted and whether it's just the frontman or the entire band. :cool:

[Phil]

I must be the only one who actually enjoyed the performances of "Landslide" and "Big Love". I thought both versions were excellent and I especially liked Stevie's backing vocals on "Big Love", just as she did them on Letterman around the same time.
The five of them convened for "Say You Love Me" so I don't understand everyone's opposition to the acoustic numbers.
Regarding the true topic at hand, the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame undoubtedly is steeped in politics, but let's not forget that the band would have sufficient clout to include Bob if they had so desired. In my opinion, he was shut out and the blame can be laid at the feet of Mick, John and Christine.

[michelej1]

I must be the only one who actually enjoyed the performances of "Landslide" and "Big Love". I thought both versions were excellent and I especially liked Stevie's backing vocals on "Big Love", just as she did them on Letterman around the same time.


It's not that I don't like those performances. It's just that I don't think SnL should be standing up there alone when the whole band is being inducted. I mean, do songs where everyone is participating when you're being entered into the RRHOF as a band.

I just felt weird about them being the only ones on Letterman too.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

It's not that I don't like those performances. It's just that I don't think SnL should be standing up there alone when the whole band is being inducted. I mean, do songs where everyone is participating when you're being entered into the RRHOF as a band.

I just felt weird about them being the only ones on Letterman too.
I thought Mick was there, too, sitting in with the CBS Orchestra.

[jenniferuk]

I thought Mick was there, too, sitting in with the CBS Orchestra.

He was, the three of them were on for two nights. I agree it is a bit awkward though to do LB and SN for two consecutive nights. (I assume John didn't have an interest in participating).

January 12th and 13th, 1998: Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks performed on Late Night with David Letterman for two consecutive nights. They played 'Landslide' on Monday and 'Big Love' on Tuesday. They were not interviewed. Mick Fleetwood played with the band on both nights.

[michelej1]

I thought Mick was there, too, sitting in with the CBS Orchestra.

You're right. I didn't count that because I didn't think the orchestra was on the 2 songs performed by SnL, although I know Paul did other FM songs.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

I think the timeline is a little off. Billy was still a part of Fleetwood Mac when they did the Time album, Rick had already left (or was fired, he never said what happened) and what do you mean by "Mick & John put out a new Fleetwood Mac because they owned the name and the others wouldn't play"? Which others? After the Time album, Stevie & Lindsey came back, hardly a "new" Fleetwood Mac. They didn't need other players. Or is that the reason why Billy, Bekka and Dave Mason were fired?? I'm all confused now... :shrug:
Rick wasn't fired, although he's never stated why. Stevie, when she was angry with the band, said that she suspected it was connected to her issues with the band. Although the money and exposure was probably good, I can't imagine BTM was all that rewarding for him.

From what I've pieced together, when Mick broke the band up in early 1996, Christine had already quit, Bekka and Billy moved to Nashville and were already working on their country duo album (though weren't quitting the band), and he had started working with Lindsey.

I'm not sure what Wendy meant. Mick and John have always put a new band together when someone quits. What's odd is that, after Peter quit, whenever they've done albums with new personnel, there have been two new players. Pretty consistent, really.

Future Games: Christine and Welch
Penguin: Weston and Walker
Fleetwood Mac: Stevie and Lindsey
Behind The Mask: Billy and Rick
Time: Bekka and Mason

[SteveMacD]

Fascinating yet confusing article. I seems that the RRHOF has a even larger influence on what bands and who in the band gets inducted and whether it's just the frontman or the entire band. :cool:

Ask the Miracles...

[Ulpian]

This is a very sorry affair. My view is that Bob ought to have been included, and I feel that more keenly now that he is dead.

I do rather wonder about all this naming-and-shaming, though. It's entirely possible that Christine was the one blocking Bob's induction because the of the lawsuit, the details of which we won't know. However, I agree with Michele that it'd be interesting to know how Bob found out that Christine was the culprit. If it was Mick then frankly the man is a coward and not the gentleman he purports to be.

[jenniferuk]

Ask the Miracles...

Indeed, and looks like the Chili Peppers had a similar ordeal (exclusions compared to that of Bob).

There are several ' RRHOF greatest snubs' websites summarising the inconsistencies,oversights, politics, etc.

[The Catdancer]

Rick wasn't fired, although he's never stated why. Stevie, when she was angry with the band, said that she suspected it was connected to her issues with the band. Although the money and exposure was probably good, I can't imagine BTM was all that rewarding for him.

From what I've pieced together, when Mick broke the band up in early 1996, Christine had already quit, Bekka and Billy moved to Nashville and were already working on their country duo album (though weren't quitting the band), and he had started working with Lindsey.

I'm not sure what Wendy meant. Mick and John have always put a new band together when someone quits. What's odd is that, after Peter quit, whenever they've done albums with new personnel, there have been two new players. Pretty consistent, really.

Future Games: Christine and Welch
Penguin: Weston and Walker
Fleetwood Mac: Stevie and Lindsey
Behind The Mask: Billy and Rick
Time: Bekka and Mason

That's exactly what I've been hearing, that Rick left because of Stevie but I didn't know that Lindsey worked with Billy & Bekka. Interesting.

Maybe Wendy can clarify the "new Fleetwood Mac" thing.

Thanks for clearing up a few things for me :)

[The Catdancer]

This is a very sorry affair. My view is that Bob ought to have been included, and I feel that more keenly now that he is dead.

I do rather wonder about all this naming-and-shaming, though. It's entirely possible that Christine was the one blocking Bob's induction because the of the lawsuit, the details of which we won't know. However, I agree with Michele that it'd be interesting to know how Bob found out that Christine was the culprit. If it was Mick then frankly the man is a coward and not the gentleman he purports to be.

I don't think Mick is a gentleman at all. He will do anything to keep the band together and if that means he has to step on people's hearts, well, that's too bad.

[michelej1]

That's exactly what I've been hearing, that Rick left because of Stevie

Oh, yes, she said he didn't like what happened with SS.

Michele

[jeremy spencer]

I don't think Mick is a gentleman at all. He will do anything to keep the band together and if that means he has to step on people's hearts, well, that's too bad.

...generous and good-hearted.

[HejiraNYC]

...generous and good-hearted.

Thank you for your insight. I think it is so easy for people who don't know the man to come on here and accuse him of all kinds of horrible things. As the figurehead and leader of the band, Mick is not in a position to be everybody's best friend; he often has to make tough, sometimes painful decisions. From the bits and pieces we've heard/read so far, it seems like the RRHOF induction process for FM was fraught with politics, competing interests and personal issues. At the end of the day, it would have been impossible for Mick to make everyone happy, so he did what was in the best interests of those closest to him at the time. I appreciate, Jeremy, that despite your own apparent "snub," you seem to be able to still see the humanity in Mick.

[SteveMacD]

I appreciate, Jeremy, that despite your own apparent "snub," you seem to be able to still see the humanity in Mick.
Jeremy was inducted, he just wasn't at the ceremony.

[Wendy Welch]

You can all make all the assumptions you want. But I was there and everything I said is the truth.

[The Catdancer]

Thank you for your insight. I think it is so easy for people who don't know the man to come on here and accuse him of all kinds of horrible things. As the figurehead and leader of the band, Mick is not in a position to be everybody's best friend; he often has to make tough, sometimes painful decisions. From the bits and pieces we've heard/read so far, it seems like the RRHOF induction process for FM was fraught with politics, competing interests and personal issues. At the end of the day, it would have been impossible for Mick to make everyone happy, so he did what was in the best interests of those closest to him at the time. I appreciate, Jeremy, that despite your own apparent "snub," you seem to be able to still see the humanity in Mick.

Have you ever met Mick? I have several times. Oh, and Mr. Spencer was inducted...

[The Catdancer]

Oh, yes, she said he didn't like what happened with SS.

Michele

Neither did I, it was so unfair to her and her Mom. In the end it all worked out for SS but at the time it was very ugly. At least Rick supported her (according to her :rolleyes:)

[BombaySapphire3]

Have you ever met Mick? I have several times. Oh, and Mr. Spencer was inducted...

Ok so Jeremy was inducted and Bob Welch was not :shrug:Someone that had that pivotal a role in the band for five albums..there's your trouble.:distress:

[Ulpian]

You can all make all the assumptions you want. But I was there and everything I said is the truth.

How was the decision communicated to Bob?

I'm sorry to be so direct, but you've been good enough to engage with us here, so it's worth a try.

[MacShadowsBall]

I don't think Mick is a gentleman at all. He will do anything to keep the band together and if that means he has to step on people's hearts, well, that's too bad.

Shame on Mick Fleetwood for keeping our favorite band together through drugs, affairs, solo careers, etc. Perhaps he should have broken up the band for good after Tusk? :shrug: Spare us of those worthless top hits such as Gypsy, Hold Me, Big Love, Little Lies, Billy, Rick, Dave, and Bekka's worthless talents, the Dance reunion(who needs Silver Springs live), Say You Will, unleashed tour, and the upcoming Mac tour that I'm sure will be a worldwide success. :cool:

[The Catdancer]

Shame on Mick Fleetwood for keeping our favorite band together through drugs, affairs, solo careers, etc. Perhaps he should have broken up the band for good after Tusk? :shrug: Spare us of those worthless top hits such as Gypsy, Hold Me, Big Love, Little Lies, Billy, Rick, Dave, and Bekka's worthless talents, the Dance reunion(who needs Silver Springs live), Say You Will, unleashed tour, and the upcoming Mac tour that I'm sure will be a worldwide success. :cool:

That's not the point. The point is leaving people out.

[BombaySapphire3]

:Shame on Mick Fleetwood for keeping our favorite band together through drugs, affairs, solo careers, etc. Perhaps he should have broken up the band for good after Tusk? :shrug: Spare us of those worthless top hits such as Gypsy, Hold Me, Big Love, Little Lies, Billy, Rick, Dave, and Bekka's worthless talents, the Dance reunion(who needs Silver Springs live), Say You Will, unleashed tour, and the upcoming Mac tour that I'm sure will be a worldwide success. :cool:

Hey you left out the chart topping masterpiece "Time" and it's prestigious tour playing a bill with Reo Speedwagon:nod:

[MacShadowsBall]

That's not the point. The point is leaving people out.

I understand. I just don't like to see Mick Fleetwood getting all this hate he seems to get over the years, not just over this Bob Welch HOF situation. :cool:

:

Hey you left out the chart topping masterpiece "Time" and it's prestigious tour playing a bill with Reo Speedwagon:nod:

I mentioned Dave and Bekka by name leaving out "Time". Adding in one of Mac's worst albums would have completely screwed up my point. :lol:

[The Catdancer]

I understand. I just don't like to see Mick Fleetwood getting all this hate he seems to get over the years, not just over this Bob Welch HOF situation. :cool:



I mentioned Dave and Bekka by name leaving out "Time". Adding in one of Mac's worst albums would have completely screwed up my point. :lol:

Well, Mick doesn't get all the hate, he's just being called on when mistakes are made. He says he's the bandleader and since he's more present than John, he gets criticized. Leaving Bob out of the RRHOF was a big mistake and he's being called out for it.

I thought I missed something your list ;)

[MacShadowsBall]

Well, Mick doesn't get all the hate, he's just being called on when mistakes are made. He says he's the bandleader and since he's more present than John, he gets criticized. Leaving Bob out of the RRHOF was a big mistake and he's being called out for it.

I just don't believe that Mick and/or Christine had more to do with Bob Welch's omission than the actual HOF people, at least according to that article posted a few days back.

Does anyone here know somebody who perhaps knows somebody from the HOF or an artist(s) that has had dealings with the RRHOF? It would be great to hear something current in how the RRHOF works. :cool:

[michelej1]

I just don't believe that Mick and/or Christine had more to do with Bob Welch's omission than the actual HOF people, at least according to that article posted a few days back.



I don't blame Mick for this RRHOF thing. But he's done enough to get blamed for over the years. I'm not thinking he's been mistreated and falsely maligned and fans need to make amends to the poor mite or anything.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Hey you left out the chart topping masterpiece "Time" and it's prestigious tour playing a bill with Reo Speedwagon:nod:
When will Chiffon-heads realize that there was never a tour in support of "Time", and that ALL of the shows Fleetwood Mac did with Bramlett and Mason were BEFORE the album even came out? Why does it matter what tour the band's on if they're not supporting a new record?

[chriskisn]

as they say there are three sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth.

Most of us believe that Bob should have been included, some of us believe a lot of members were unfairly excluded (Bob is just probably the most obvious), but as we have only heard one side of the story, I'd be hesitant to say we know all the facts.

[chriskisn]

:

Hey you left out the chart topping masterpiece "Time" and it's prestigious tour playing a bill with Reo Speedwagon:nod:

Amazing how much Time gets such a bad rap from the Rumours era fans!

[SteveMacD]

Amazing how much Time gets such a bad rap from the Rumours era fans!
They always get so upset that the band had the nerve to go on without them, as if they hadn't done that for over seven years prior to Stevie and Lindsey even joining. Only the fans of the original Green-Spencer bands have the right to have a moral objection to the continued use of the Fleetwood Mac name. If Mick and John gave up keeping Fleetwood Mac going just because the big star quit and they lost their popularity as a result, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[vivfox]

They always get so upset that the band had the nerve to go on without them, as if they hadn't done that for over seven years prior to Stevie and Lindsey even joining. Only the fans of the original Green-Spencer bands have the right to have a moral objection to the continued use of the Fleetwood Mac name. If Mick and John gave up keeping Fleetwood Mac going just because the big star quit and they lost their popularity as a result, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Steve, I am one of the King Chiff's and I gotta tell you I was not at all upset that FM continued after Stevie. I still loved Christine. I always had enjoyed We Just Disagree on the radio so I was looking forward to Dave Mason's contributions. I gladly went to see FM in 1994 or 1995(who remembers??) in Phoenix and was very impressed with Bekka's version of GDW. When the Time album came out I bought it right away and played it a couple of times and literally hated every single song. I gave the record to another Chiff, she played it and became a huge Bekka fan for many years to come.

[Wendy Welch]

Mick told me about Christine the day Bob died. Believe it or not. He also told my friend Mike Lawson on the same day when I had 12 policemen and medical people in my home, before Bob was moved from my home after I found him.

[Wendy Welch]

I wouldn't speak to him until he told me the reason that Bob wasn't in the Hall of Fame to my face.
:shrug::sorry:

[SteveMacD]

Steve, I am one of the King Chiff's and I gotta tell you I was not at all upset that FM continued after Stevie.
At the time, you would've been in the minority.

I just don't get how fans of a line-up that came together seven years after the band formed could blast an album as not really being Fleetwood Mac when it still had the three core members it had had since 1970. They often use sales to justify that view, as if Buckingham and Nicks were setting the world on fire with their solo albums.

[BombaySapphire3]

At the time, you would've been in the minority.

I just don't get how fans of a line-up that came together seven years after the band formed could blast an album as not really being Fleetwood Mac when it still had the three core members it had had since 1970. They often use sales to justify that view, as if Buckingham and Nicks were setting the world on fire with their solo albums.

An album that you just stated that they didn't even bother to tour to support:shrug: And having been around in the early 1980s I have to say that Bella Donna did make a bigger impact in sales and airplay here in the U.S. than either Tusk before it or Mirage after it.Not saying that it was the best album of the 3 .Tusk gets my vote for that.

[SteveMacD]

An album that you just stated that they didn't even bother to tour to support:shrug:
The band came off the road in September, 1995, the album came out in October, 1995, and the band planned to hit the road in the spring. Chris quit, Bekka and Billy were very country and even moved to Nashville to do a country duo album, and Lindsey asked Mick to play on and co-produce Gift Of Screws. That's when the pressure was on for the Rumours band to do their Hell Freezes Over, and Mick and Lindsey working together was a great place to start. I verified with Mason's people that the band was over in March, 1996. The official announcement came later. It's not like it was given a fair shot, but that's the industry.

As for the rest, I thought it was pretty clear we were talking about the post-BTM, pre-Dance era, which relegates your other comments to the Straw Man. Bottom line NOBODY in Fleetwood Mac was doing well apart.

OOTC bombed.
Street Angel bombed.
Time bombed.

ALL FIVE of them NEEDED the reunion.

[The Catdancer]

Mick told me about Christine the day Bob died. Believe it or not. He also told my friend Mike Lawson on the same day when I had 12 policemen and medical people in my home, before Bob was moved from my home after I found him.

If I were you I would contact Christine and ask her if it's all true.

[seekerj]

When will Chiffon-heads realize that there was never a tour in support of "Time", and that ALL of the shows Fleetwood Mac did with Bramlett and Mason were BEFORE the album even came out? Why does it matter what tour the band's on if they're not supporting a new record?

When that derogatory term stops being used.

[HejiraNYC]

I just don't get how fans of a line-up that came together seven years after the band formed could blast an album as not really being Fleetwood Mac when it still had the three core members it had had since 1970. They often use sales to justify that view, as if Buckingham and Nicks were setting the world on fire with their solo albums.

Nobody faults FM for continuing after S&L dropped out. However, just because one is a Fleetwood Mac fan does not mean he/she must blindly accept whatever dubious choices Mick Fleetwood makes in terms of band personnel and musical direction. I would have been intrigued by a drastically different sound ala the 1975 white album with a couple of charismatic, interesting singer/songwriters with an original point of view. Instead, what we ended up with is a lineup of extremely bland singers with mediocre, unoriginal songs + Christine, who singularly managed to salvage Time into a decent 5-song EP. The "new" sound being peddled on Time, a much watered-down version of Behind the Mask, lacked any sparkle as much as it lacked any grit. Although Christine had a couple of great moments, even her songs were not up to par.

In hindsight, I don't know who was more woefully miscast- Dave or Bekka. Indeed, the choice of Bekka was a pretty cynical/obvious move by Mick. Oh, sure, to this day he will attest on a stack of bibles that she was enlisted due to her exquisite voice and songwriting ability, blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, she basically fit the bill as the hot chick singer with the sultry voice, i.e., Stevie's replacement. Mick had the opportunity to do something truly ballsy and go against type, but he didn't. I don't think "chiffonheads" would have been so up in arms about Bekka if Mick would have approached this role in the band in a fresh way that sidestepped the issue of whether or not Stevie was being replaced. For example, it would have been interesting if Mick had enlisted someone like Courtney Love, whose cover of "Gold Dust Woman" was so fiery and original, that one would tend not to draw parallels with Stevie. With Bekka and her tepid, over-sung, gutless version of GDW, they were practically begging to raise the dander of the chiffonhead masses.

[BombaySapphire3]

As for the rest, I thought it was pretty clear we were talking about the post-BTM, pre-Dance era, which relegates your other comments to the Straw Man. Bottom line NOBODY in Fleetwood Mac was doing well apart.

OOTC bombed.
Street Angel bombed.
Time bombed.

ALL FIVE of them NEEDED the reunion.

I was 3 sheets to the wind on the Napa valley cab which I guess is kind of equivalent to the Straw Man.I am very well aware of how low the stock of FM and it's members had fallen in the early /mid 1990s when even a great album like OOTC that made many critic's year end best of list bombed but this doesn't change the fact that like another poster just stated with the exception of some of Christine's songs Time really sucked.:nod:

[michelej1]

+ Christine, who singularly managed to salvage Time into a decent 5-song EP.

Very nice.

Michele

[Macfanforever]

I think everyone that was or still with FM should get noticed in the RRHOF.

They all worked their a$$' s off with the band and solo and deserve to get noticed with the RRHOF.

They got to stop playing games and stop electing artists that has nothing to do with rock and roll.

[BombaySapphire3]

When that derogatory term stops being used.

Don't fret ..it is more than likely that in 100 years from now when FM and the rest of us are gone that the only thing the band will be remembered for is an acoustic deep cut from side two of the first album of the dreaded "Rumours" lineup"..break out the chiffon platforms and tamborine.:blob2:

[louielouie2000]

When will Chiffon-heads realize that there was never a tour in support of "Time", and that ALL of the shows Fleetwood Mac did with Bramlett and Mason were BEFORE the album even came out? Why does it matter what tour the band's on if they're not supporting a new record?

I am a "chiffonhead" and was one of the few chiffonheads on this board who went to see the Time lineup in concert. I can't say I agree entirely with your summation that the band didn't tour in support of Time. The band mentioned the upcoming album & it's approximate release date several times during my Raleigh, NC show. There's no doubt in my mind the Time tour was a vehicle to introduce the new lineup, and prime the pump for sales when the new album dropped. I think they knew that with the big change in personnel, they HAD to introduce the world to the new Fleetwood Mac with familiar material before dropping an album with such different personnel. Which is exactly what they did; they made sure it was known this was a new chapter of Fleetwood Mac, and to buy their upcoming album.

Something that pre Rumours fans seem to have a hard time reconciling is that by the mid 1990s, the definition of Fleetwood Mac was no longer fluid like it was during the early 1970s. The band had been around for nearly 3 decades at that point, and the Rumours lineup was the longest lived incarnation. The fact the Rumours album outsold every other Mac album combined to this day also helped cement in the public's mind who Fleetwood Mac was. To the general public, drummers, bass players, etc are interchangeable. It's the singer/songwriters who define a band. Just look at bands like Heart & Blondie. The only thing they have in common with their earlier incarnations are their lead singers. By replacing Lindsey & Stevie, the Time lineup never had a chance. They were long before established as being the core of the band, despite Mick & John being it's namesakes. You can't even say Mick & John were the founders of Fleetwood Mac... that distinction goes to Peter Green, who was little known to Americans, and had exited the band some 25 years before the Time era commenced.

[aleuzzi]

I forget how we got here, moving from a discussion about The Bob Welch RRHOF snub to a critique of Time and "chiffon heads" but I suppose in the world of Fleetwood Mac all is relevant at all times.

I thought Bekka was an intriguing choice, not a mistake or miscalculation. She sang great live and on the album and worked well with Billy.

[holidayroad]

I think everyone that was or still with FM should get noticed in the RRHOF.

They all worked their a$$' s off with the band and solo and deserve to get noticed with the RRHOF.



That's something I definitely agree with!!

[jbrownsjr]

I am disgusted that Bob was left out. It will never sit well with me.

[BombaySapphire3]

I am disgusted that Bob was left out. It will never sit well with me.

Agreed..he really played an important role during that tranistional time and produced some great music as well.

[aleuzzi]

Agreed..he really played an important role during that tranistional time and produced some great music as well.

The live versions of Bermuda Triangle alone merit inclusion in RRHOF. There is nothing else in rock quite like it. The whole band worked together to make something really magical there-- and his long spoken litany in the middle is epic.

[Ulpian]

If I were you I would contact Christine and ask her if it's all true.

Yep. I agree. That is one way to sort it.

[becca]

I couldn't care less who the so-called hall of fame includes or doesn't. I doubt very much Christine or any other band member could dictate who it does or doesn't honor. Bob Welch's music lives on positively after him regardless. How about going and enjoying some right now? :angel:

[Wendy Welch]

Becca is and was an amazing singer and a huge talent. I love her!

Bob earned being in the Hall of Fame and I still will fight for that because he cared about it and was so hurt by what Christine did and Mick went along with. It was just flat out wrong.:blob2:

[Phil]

Gee, Christine must have such a vindictive and unforgiving streak... No wonder Stevie was so intimidated by her. Kinda cheeky when you think about it - she, Mick and John rip Bob off regarding royalties, then she becomes offended when he claims what was rightfully his in the first place, resulting in him then being denied something else to which he should have been entitled...

[HomerMcvie]

Well, to put ourselves into their shoes....lawsuits divide people, whether it's divorce, evictions, or song royalties. Right or wrong, everyone gets pissed, and defensive. So the timing for the HOF was askew from the git go....

We know that Bob received a settlement, so he was rightfully suing for what was his. I'm not defending Christine's position, at all(Bob and Christine are my two favorite members of FM), but at the end of the day, we're all human. YES, Christine was wrong, but I can't say that I wouldn't feel the same way, if I was being sued.

But WE ALL know the right thing to do now(and have, for 15 years now)...and that is to right this wrong, and induct Bob. It should have happened then. It needs to happen now. Mick, have a soul, for something other than a buck...if you do this, I will never doubt your character, ever again...make this right, Mick.

[michelej1]

I'm not speaking to Bob's litigation, which I know nothing about. So, this post has nothing to do with that.

But just talking about lawsuits in general, the idea that because you received a settlement that means your claim has merit is not always true. Sometimes it is, but in many cases it is not. Claims are often settled because it would cost more to take them to trial (even if you win) than it would be to settle them. Plus, if you have insurance and the insurer has to cover some of the liability, they may force you to settle whether you, as the individual, want to or not.

In a showbiz lawsuit, the corporations involved may settle for business reasons even if the artists would like to fight it tooth and nail until the end, just on principle. Sometimes one party has to indemnify the other and pay off any liability they may have, so often a co-defendant may force you to settle. They don't care about your good name and your honor. They just want to stop risk exposure.

A settlement alone doesn't mean your claim had validity.

Take this AEG case v. The Jacksons. I'm sure that will settle eventually. That doesn't mean that Michael Jackson wasn't responsible for his own death. It just means that AEG will, at some point, get tired of the publicity.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

I understand all of that, Michele, and wasn't necessarily trying to imply that Bob "was cheated"...only that they did settle, and the whole timing of the lawsuit, and the HOF induction was very bad.
But I would come much closer to believing Bob's side, than Mick's. Because you know(and Wendy is just discovering), "Mick", IS "Mick" - if there ain't a buck involved for him...he simply has no motivation for performing those deeds.

[Ulpian]

Gee, Christine must have such a vindictive and unforgiving streak... No wonder Stevie was so intimidated by her. Kinda cheeky when you think about it - she, Mick and John rip Bob off regarding royalties, then she becomes offended when he claims what was rightfully his in the first place, resulting in him then being denied something else to which he should have been entitled...

Careful. I wouldn't throw about those kind of assertions. We don't know the details of the lawsuit or the out-of-court settlement and never will. If Christine has a good defamation lawyer, he should be watching these pages pretty closely.

[Ulpian]

I'm not speaking to Bob's litigation, which I know nothing about. So, this post has nothing to do with that.

But just talking about lawsuits in general, the idea that because you received a settlement that means your claim has merit is not always true. Sometimes it is, but in many cases it is not. Claims are often settled because it would cost more to take them to trial (even if you win) than it would be to settle them. Plus, if you have insurance and the insurer has to cover some of the liability, they may force you to settle whether you, as the individual, want to or not.

In a showbiz lawsuit, the corporations involved may settle for business reasons even if the artists would like to fight it tooth and nail until the end, just on principle. Sometimes one party has to indemnify the other and pay off any liability they may have, so often a co-defendant may force you to settle. They don't care about your good name and your honor. They just want to stop risk exposure.

A settlement alone doesn't mean your claim had validity.

Take this AEG case v. The Jacksons. I'm sure that will settle eventually. That doesn't mean that Michael Jackson wasn't responsible for his own death. It just means that AEG will, at some point, get tired of the publicity.

Michele

^ This.

Very measured and eloquent as usual!

[becca]

Becca is and was an amazing singer and a huge talent. I love her!

Bob earned being in the Hall of Fame and I still will fight for that because he cared about it and was so hurt by what Christine did and Mick went along with. It was just flat out wrong.:blob2:

I guess I shouldn't be surprised if they do allow bands to choose who is honored as a member.

When I heard about the non-creative business types who were inducted into the hall of fame ahead of so many major artists, plus the many black performers who helped create rock & roll left out, the whole concept became almost meaningless to me. Bob more than deserves to be in it, but is in great company of many who also have been left out.

I'm not a Bramlett but agree they are all very talented. :nod:

[SteveMacD]

I don't really care about people's opinions about "Time", that's not really the point. Bob, Billy, and Rick should have been inducted at a minimum given their contributions and/or relative success with the band. Bob really cared, Billy was somewhat miffed, and Rick didn't GAF. It saddens me that Bob cared about THAT so much. Musicians know, music critics know, and (most important) Fleetwood Mac fans know how important Bob's contributions to Fleetwood Mac were. I guess I'd be more upset if I didn't already consider the Hall a massive joke.

As for "Time", I enjoyed more than BTM or SYW and thought there was potential with Bekka and Billy (Mason not so much), but we all have our opinions.

[Wendy Welch]

Ulpian, You sound like you are working for a record company. Are you? You're speaking way out of school and you should be more concerned about being sued than anyone for your implications.

Slander suits are very hard to win, unless you can show damage. Bottom line! and you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I did finish court reporting school and all the law classes by the way! And you are half crocked with your one-sided statements about settlements. Have you ever studied law? It doesnt sound like it to me.

Please sign the Petition to get Bob Inducted in the Hall of Fame. It's "Induct bob Welch in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame". We collected 2,000 signatures on the first petition, and the second petition has over 2, 050 signatures. We need more PLEASE HElP BOB WELCH! He deserves it. GO WELCH WARRIORS!

[holidayroad]

Please sign the Petition to get Bob Inducted in the Hall of Fame. It's "Induct bob Welch in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame". We collected 2,000 signatures on the first petition, and the second petition has over 2, 050 signatures. We need more PLEASE HElP BOB WELCH! He deserves it. GO WELCH WARRIORS!

A link to the petition page:

http://www.petitiononline.com/bobwelch/petition.html

[aleuzzi]

Ulpian, You sound like you are working for a record company. Are you? You're speaking way out of school and you should be more concerned about being sued than anyone for your implications.


I thought Ulpian's comment to the above assertions that Christine must be vindictive and that is why (sudden, dramatic leap) Stevie must have been intimidated by her were well formed and reasonable.

I, as much as anyone else, want to see Bob in the Hall of Fame, because he deserved it and because it mattered so much to him. However, I find the public finger pointing distasteful and unproductive.

I also think we should avoid creating full blown character profiles of certain members (in this case Mick and Christine--John is apparently immune to them) as if we knew them well and fully understood their motivations.

That said, Bob's lawsuit (well-founded or otherwise--and I'm assuming he was entitled to certain royalties or he would not have sued) must have seemed to Fleetwood and the McVies terribly ironic in light of the Clifford Davis suit that they and Bob went through together in the mid 70s.

[Ulpian]

Ulpian, You sound like you are working for a record company. Are you? You're speaking way out of school and you should be more concerned about being sued than anyone for your implications.

Slander suits are very hard to win, unless you can show damage. Bottom line! and you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I did finish court reporting school and all the law classes by the way! And you are half crocked with your one-sided statements about settlements. Have you ever studied law? It doesnt sound like it to me.

Please sign the Petition to get Bob Inducted in the Hall of Fame. It's "Induct bob Welch in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame". We collected 2,000 signatures on the first petition, and the second petition has over 2, 050 signatures. We need more PLEASE HElP BOB WELCH! He deserves it. GO WELCH WARRIORS!

Since you have addressed me direct, Mrs Welch, I shall do the same to you.

I have never worked for a record company. I studied Law at the graduate level. I am a member of the legal profession in the United Kingdom with experience of work in other jurisdictions.

All of my comments here have, I think, been measured. I have observed that this thread contains some comments which, in their present state or if taken further, might be construed as defamatory. I'm quite familiar with that area of the law.

For what it's worth, if you look back, I said I thought that your late husband deserved to be inducted into The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I'd be interested to know what it is you think I might be sued for.

I'm surprised a moderator hasn't stepped in, because there are some posts which touch on subjects that are possibly defamatory and some relate to legal arrangements about which I thought were maybe off limits.

[michelej1]

I'm not worried about defamation. There's no libel here.

Michele

[Wendy Welch]

There certainly isn't any libel or slander here. First of all if it is the truth it is neither. If it is a personal opinion it is neither, and if it is something that any average person would know was ridiculous, i.e. a political cartoon or such of any famous person, it is neither. And then again you must be able to claim damages from said remark. I appreciate your comments to me and the support of Bob Welch. But I do know what happened in the law suit of which I will not speak., other than what I have said and can say.

I love the back and forth and welcome all comments and opinions and the dialogue. I respect freedom of speech.

[Wendy Welch]

Bu the way, Bob was a pro rata share member of Fleetwood Mac, therefore should have been inducted by the band on that alone. Also, someone from the RRHOF said that "Bob Welch was not RRHOF caliber, which can certainly be disputed due to the fact if you look at other people, such as back up members of bands, and you even look at Fleetwood Mac, i.e. Jeremy Spencer and Danny Kirwin, Bob's credentials certainly surpass theirs. And the fact that we have lost money since Bob's death due to him not being in the Hall of Fame. What exactly does that say about slander and defamation and libel?

[chriskisn]

Ok I accept this is a fan site, but I have never yet heard anyone say that Bob Welch shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. Is there anyone on here that thinks that?

While we can argue the merits of the other 7, (all of which I think should have been inducted too) it is just beyond comprehension that Bob wasn't inducted.

I'm a big fan of the Welch era, but to be honest I'm a bigger fan of other members who weren't inducted (see avatar for a hint), yet Bob's contribution to the band was so important, so defining, that he stands head and shoulders above the other seven members that weren't inducted.

I'm just sad that it meant so much to Bob, but hopefully he knew that the fans loved his music and his contribution to the band.

[The Catdancer]

Ok I accept this is a fan site, but I have never yet heard anyone say that Bob Welch shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. Is there anyone on here that thinks that?

While we can argue the merits of the other 7, (all of which I think should have been inducted too) it is just beyond comprehension that Bob wasn't inducted.

I'm a big fan of the Welch era, but to be honest I'm a bigger fan of other members who weren't inducted (see avatar for a hint), yet Bob's contribution to the band was so important, so defining, that he stands head and shoulders above the other seven members that weren't inducted.

I'm just sad that it meant so much to Bob, but hopefully he knew that the fans loved his music and his contribution to the band.

Nope, he should have been inducted and it's sad he wasn't.

[MikeVielhaber]

Wendy said last night, that the HOF inducts the band, and the band decides which members get included.

I'm not saying that's how it is, but she says that's how it is.

That makes sense considering you have people like Rob Trujillo inducted with Metallica after only one album and similarly Josh Klinghoffer with Red Hot Chili Peppers also after only one album and that album being one of their least successful to date. While Dave Navarro was not even though his one album was much more successful. If it were up to the HOF those two guys probably would not be inducted.