Ken Caillat's book...bits and tidbits

[bombaysaffires]

Well, my book arrived late today. I've only been skimming through it... One of the first bits I noted was his claim that Stevie did not sequence Rumours as claimed all these years..... Judy Wong did!

[CADreaming]

Well, my book arrived late today. I've only been skimming through it... One of the first bits I noted was his claim that Stevie did not sequence Rumours as claimed all these years..... Judy Wong did!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Don't tell her!

[Blueletter18]

I'm about 70 pages into it, and I love it! You feel like you're right there in the control room of the studio. He writes that none of them can write or read music, which is fascinating. There are already a bunch of little anecdotes I've come across that I've never heard before. Caillat can seem harsh in his descriptions of the band members sometimes, however it is clear that he respects them as people and as musicians.

[darkcat]

I thought the bit about not miking Stevie when she plays the tambo was interesting, they let wanted to record Mick playing it instead. Interesting read so far, Ken certainly didnt hold back when it came to JC either.

[Artemis]

I loved the story of Stevie sobbing when she had to cut parts from Silver Springs, but once she realised that she either cut lines from it, or lost royalties by having less songs, the sobbing stopped and she became ruthless :laugh: Also loved how she rescued The Chain and was all smug about it.

[bombaysaffires]

I'm about 70 pages into it, and I love it! You feel like you're right there in the control room of the studio. He writes that none of them can write or read music, which is fascinating. There are already a bunch of little anecdotes I've come across that I've never heard before. Caillat can seem harsh in his descriptions of the band members sometimes, however it is clear that he respects them as people and as musicians.

that would be inaccurate regarding Christine, who is classically trained.

[michelej1]

that would be inaccurate regarding Christine, who is classically trained.

Yeah, her dad would be spinning if she couldn't read or write music. Michele

[SteveMacD]

that would be inaccurate regarding Christine, who is classically trained.
Maybe not, though. From personal experience, that's a skill that can go away if unused for a great length of time, and I seriously doubt that she would have needed to read music in the decade leading up to Rumours.

[louielouie2000]

Maybe not, though. From personal experience, that's a skill that can go away if unused for a great length of time, and I seriously doubt that she would have needed to read music in the decade leading up to Rumours.

This is absolutely true. I played almost a half dozen different instruments from elementary school up through the end of high school, but a decade later, I most certainly cannot read music anymore. I also was able to speak, read, and write Spanish at that time... but have lost that skill as well. Even though Christine was classically trained, she focused her talents on playing in jams & by ear for the majority of her career. I could easily see her not reading music by the time of Rumours, especially given her alcohol & drug usage at that juncture. :p

[elle]

Maybe not, though. From personal experience, that's a skill that can go away if unused for a great length of time, and I seriously doubt that she would have needed to read music in the decade leading up to Rumours.

huh? i didn't use it for the last 3 decades and i can still read notes and play their instruments when my kids have to practice for school. it's like riding a bike or learning how to ski, i suspect.

[Blueletter18]

Yeah, that's definitley interesting, whether that skill can be lost or not...I played saxophone for five years, and didn't look at music again for four years. I can still read music, but not very well, and I wouldn't want to if I didn't have to. That's right though, I forgot that Christine is classically trained- I was really surprised when I read that they couldn't read music!

[michelej1]

This is absolutely true. I played almost a half dozen different instruments from elementary school up through the end of high school, but a decade later, I most certainly cannot read music anymore.

Yes, I took piano lessons for 7 years and I doubt whether I could find Middle C, but Christine has said that every now and then she will still play a classical piece just for the exercise and discipline. So, I think she still knows how.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

huh? i didn't use it for the last 3 decades and i can still read notes and play their instruments when my kids have to practice for school. it's like riding a bike or learning how to ski, i suspect.
Not for everybody.

[WildHearted]

huh? i didn't use it for the last 3 decades and i can still read notes and play their instruments when my kids have to practice for school. it's like riding a bike or learning how to ski, i suspect.

I also don't think someone who was trained as extensively as I believe Christine was could really lose the skill.

I mean, it may not come as naturally if you are long out of practice - but once you learn and master it to a certain level it it's always gonna be there. From my experience anyway.

However, with that said, I'm not sure that Christine's musical literacy would have been of all that much use to her during the recording of Rumours, anyway. If none of the other band members could read/write than there's really no practical reason for her to have been. I'm sure her training helped in other ways in terms of crafting the songs, though.

[David]

Based on what Chris herself has said about her musical training in the Keyboard magazine interview and elsewhere, her classical training wasn't very extensive. She abandoned it early on to start playing early rock and roll, like Fats Domino. From there, she played rock and blues, learning how to replicate the styles of Bob Hall and Sonny Thompson.

I'm going to assume that she can still read staff notation, but at an intermediate level. In that sense, you never truly forget everything you ever learned about notation, but you get better or worse over the years, depending on how much practice you're getting. (By the way, there's plenty of classical music that an intermediate reader can amuse himself with.)

I'll second the opinion already given that there isn't any Fleetwood Mac music that would have required the keyboardist (or any of the other guys) to be able to read staff notation, let alone read it fluently.

[bombaysaffires]

Based on what Chris herself has said about her musical training in the Keyboard magazine interview and elsewhere, her classical training wasn't very extensive. She abandoned it early on to start playing early rock and roll, like Fats Domino. From there, she played rock and blues, learning how to replicate the styles of Bob Hall and Sonny Thompson.

I'm going to assume that she can still read staff notation, but at an intermediate level. In that sense, you never truly forget everything you ever learned about notation, but you get better or worse over the years, depending on how much practice you're getting. (By the way, there's plenty of classical music that an intermediate reader can amuse himself with.)

I'll second the opinion already given that there isn't any Fleetwood Mac music that would have required the keyboardist (or any of the other guys) to be able to read staff notation, let alone read it fluently.


So why would Ken bother to bring it up I wonder? I haven't gotten that far into the book, but there is a definite passive-aggressive undertone manifested in lots of backhanded compliments at best and outright swipes at the band members at worst.

[iamnotafraid]

but there is a definite passive-aggressive undertone manifested in lots of backhanded compliments at best and outright swipes at the band members at worst.

Wait until one or more of the 5 dies. That's when
we will find out all the seedy details of their lives.
The players always think themselves more important
than they are.

[Gailh]

Christine was classically trained and in one of the interviews for ITM she mentioned "ploughing through some Mozart" just to see if she can still sight read

Of course she can read music

Gail

[GoldDustGypsy]

The more little tidbits I hear about this book the less I want to read it. I know the members of the band probably aren't as PERFECT as what my mind likes to think they are but it just seems like Ken Caillat just has some sour grapes and a bank account that's running a little low.

....and that interview? Come on. How can you blame people for supporting their fellow band mate instead of a producer they knew long ago?

:distress: He should hook up with CAH and just throw the biggest pity party the world has ever witnessed.

[darkcat]

He definitely comes off as snarky towards Stevie, saying several times so far(I'm halfway through the book) that AT THE TIME she was really sweet and approachable, implying that she is no longer.

[HomerMcvie]

He definitely comes off as snarky towards Stevie, saying several times so far(I'm halfway through the book) that AT THE TIME she was really sweet and approachable, implying that she is no longer.
Well, I think SN's army of fans would REFUSE to believe anything other than their own fairyland view of their drone, err....queen.


Do you REALLY think that massive stardom didn't change her?

[HejiraNYC]

He definitely comes off as snarky towards Stevie, saying several times so far(I'm halfway through the book) that AT THE TIME she was really sweet and approachable, implying that she is no longer.

I suspect that in Ken's dictionary, "sweet and approachable" = "I could get her." I am sure that, in the throes of heavy drug use and heavy drama, some decidedly awkward behaviors were probably on exhibit in the workplace.

[pwyll]

I don't think anyone should really comment until reading the book.

I only have about 50 pages left and find it very interesting.
This isn't a tell all and gossip. It is more about the technical aspects of the recording process and the equipment used, etc. In fact, for the Stevie fans (including myself), I was surprised to find that there really much about Stevie in the book for the most part. As she is not a "musician", there was not much at all for her to do. A lot of decisions - even about some of the vocals were done when she wasn't even there.
The intent was not to minimize Stevie in the process, it is just the way it was. The instrumentation and retakes consumed much time in the studio. In fact, somewhere in the book, Ken estimates that Stevie's work on the album was only approximately 10% of the total recording. That makes a whole lot of sense.

The book is very interesting. I'm enjoying as it is NOT a gossip.

I recommend it to ANY fan.

[mezzoforte]

Honestly? I'd probably be more interested if it were a tell-all. So shoot me.

I couldn't get through the book. Ken's style of writing didn't work for me. A shame, in my mind, that he reserves his sass for interviews.

[louielouie2000]

Honestly? I'd probably be more interested if it were a tell-all. So shoot me.

Agreed. I'm no musician... I want to know about group politics, how songs came to be, what went into the creation of an epic album, the boring details of daily life, what the band did outside the studio, etc.

I couldn't get through the book. Ken's style of writing didn't work for me. A shame, in my mind, that he reserves his sass for interviews.

Honestly, this is exactly why I didn't buy the book. Technical details would be totally lost on me. Plus, the Rumours story is played to death anyway. I'm far more likely to buy such a book about Tusk. IT was the album that was interesting artistically, especially how it unfolded in the studio.

[iamnotafraid]

I'm far more likely to buy such a book about Tusk. IT was the album that was interesting artistically, especially how it unfolded in the studio.

Same here.

[Jondalar]

Agreed. I'm no musician... I want to know about group politics, how songs came to be, what went into the creation of an epic album, the boring details of daily life, what the band did outside the studio, etc.



Honestly, this is exactly why I didn't buy the book. Technical details would be totally lost on me. Plus, the Rumours story is played to death anyway. I'm far more likely to buy such a book about Tusk. IT was the album that was interesting artistically, especially how it unfolded in the studio.

oh come on, from all your posts we know you are cheap! :)

[SteveMacD]

Well, I think SN's army of fans would REFUSE to believe anything other than their own fairyland view of their drone, err....queen.


Do you REALLY think that massive stardom didn't change her?
AND...It's not like Ken's the first to make that type of comment about Stevie. Remember around "The Dance" when Lindsey said something like the girl he had been in love with years ago was back and Christine had commented that Stevie had once gotten to the point of taking herself too seriously. I don't recall those comments being an issue 15 years ago.

[darkcat]

well, I realize that of course people change with fame, I just thought it was an interesting "tid bit" and gives an idea about Caillats current thoughts about her.

[aleuzzi]

Maybe not, though. From personal experience, that's a skill that can go away if unused for a great length of time, and I seriously doubt that she would have needed to read music in the decade leading up to Rumours.

She never lost her sight-reading skills. She has said in comparatively recent interviews that she likes to work through Beethoven, et al at a leisure pace at home. Most likely, she is what a classical musician would term an "intermediate" player, certainly not concert level, but not a novice either.

For what it's worth, I didn't lose my sight reading skills either. I stopped playing piano for two decades when, this past year, I returned to it and started working through some Bartok I had never played before. It was a little rough at first, but by the end of the second week, I was working through those pieces pretty quickly.

[aleuzzi]

Christine was classically trained and in one of the interviews for ITM she mentioned "ploughing through some Mozart" just to see if she can still sight read

Of course she can read music

Gail

Yes, I didn't see this post when I commented above. And yes, it was Mozart, not Beethoven. Good memory, Gail.

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, I took piano lessons for 7 years and I doubt whether I could find Middle C, but Christine has said that every now and then she will still play a classical piece just for the exercise and discipline. So, I think she still knows how.

Michele

Yes, I believe she said she played Mozart for fun. And it would take her a few days to plod through it.

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, I didn't see this post when I commented above. And yes, it was Mozart, not Beethoven. Good memory, Gail.

Whoops... didn't read the whole thread either. ... .

[bombaysaffires]

oh there's definitely gossip and snark.... he makes reference to Lindsey's anger management issues a lot, and says LB not only got physical with him, but with a woman named Christina, and with Carol..... the gossip is just intertwined with some technical stuff and some rather juvenile descriptions of his swinging' single dude days... <snort>

[aleuzzi]

the gossip is just intertwined with some technical stuff and some rather juvenile descriptions of his swinging' single dude days... <snort>

I got a sense of this reading portions of it in the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon.com, so I didn't fork over the cash.

[David]

For what it's worth, I didn't lose my sight reading skills either. I stopped playing piano for two decades when, this past year, I returned to it and started working through some Bartok I had never played before. It was a little rough at first, but by the end of the second week, I was working through those pieces pretty quickly.Will you help me with my Bartok?

[sodascouts]

I don't think anyone should really comment until reading the book.

I only have about 50 pages left and find it very interesting.
This isn't a tell all and gossip. It is more about the technical aspects of the recording process and the equipment used, etc. In fact, for the Stevie fans (including myself), I was surprised to find that there really much about Stevie in the book for the most part. As she is not a "musician", there was not much at all for her to do. A lot of decisions - even about some of the vocals were done when she wasn't even there.
The intent was not to minimize Stevie in the process, it is just the way it was. The instrumentation and retakes consumed much time in the studio. In fact, somewhere in the book, Ken estimates that Stevie's work on the album was only approximately 10% of the total recording. That makes a whole lot of sense.

The book is very interesting. I'm enjoying as it is NOT a gossip.

I recommend it to ANY fan.

Just got done myself. There is next to nothing about drama between band members. He apparently didn't even know SnL were breaking up until a few weeks into it. There is one paragraph about one argument between Stevie and Lindsey where he quotes three lines of dialog, but that's it. He does talk about drama between himself and LB, but I daresay that's not the kind of drama most fans were hoping to hear about.

The book is good for its information about the recording process. I played Rumours while reading it and I thought it was cool when he would tell you where in a song he used a certain lick or sound. I'd go back and listen to it, and it gave me a new perspective on sound construction.

[jannieC]

I finished the book over the week-end. Eh. :shrug: The book should be marketed more to would-be producers rather than FM fans. I wasn't looking for dirt or drama about the relationships, but I was hoping for more about how the different members felt/acted about their songs, maybe?

The somewhat vague remarks about Stevie were interesting because he never said what happened. He would make statements about how at the time, he still thought she was just a sweet/cool girl back then (totally paraphrasing) but then never explains why that view changed. I also thought the ending was somewhat odd; the last sentence in the book makes reference to Lindsey's difficult nature.

Anyway, I wish Ken the best with this book and as I said, a would be producer or musician who is also a fan of FM would really enjoy it.

[Blueletter18]

I thought the part about John flirting with Linda Ronstadt when she and Governor Brown visited the studio was funny. That would be so awesome, LR and FM in the same studio!! I really hope Caillat writes a book about Tusk at least, and I would also love to hear about Mirage. I really like how he seemed to keep the drama to a minimum and based the book on facts.

[darkcat]

Myself, I would have liked a little more drama and a little less about the technical aspects of making the record. Overall I enjoyed it though. Did give more appreciation for all the work they did on that album.

[desertangel]

Just finished the book yesterday, while I lay in bed... sick. I liked it! I thought it would make a good HBO Movie-of-the-Week. It reads like it was written from his journal, although it does bounce around a little in terms of going off on certain tangents. For example, when his grandfather died, he expounded on family, but it does not take away from the general flow of the book. I thought it was funny in parts, such as when he describes getting crabs. I didn't get a good feel for band politics, it seemed more like he wrote from a perspective of how it was to be an employee of the band and how he observed his bosses. (Maybe I didn't pick up on it.) I dropped jaw on the part about his dog Scooter and how he ended up on the cover of Tusk, Stevie said she'd put a hex on him and when the dog died a few years later, Stevie made a snide remark about it then said she she should have been the one on that album cover. Sure doesn't sound like the Stevie we've come to know and love... WOW! The technical parts about the songs are interspersed with the personal anecdotes, so it doesn't bog down there either. I went back and made notes so I could listen for certain things like the naugahyde chair in Second Hand News... we may have already known about that one, but the only one I remember is the Kleenex box on Tusk. I would recommend it. It's not too expensive, particularly if you can get the Kindle version, and it will only take a few days to read. Did I learn anything new? I dunno... but it was pretty cool the way he wrote made you feel like you were there. The fly on the wall thing is always cool. :thumbsup:

[Jondalar]

Just finished the book yesterday, while I lay in bed... sick. I liked it! I thought it would make a good HBO Movie-of-the-Week. It reads like it was written from his journal, although it does bounce around a little in terms of going off on certain tangents. For example, when his grandfather died, he expounded on family, but it does not take away from the general flow of the book. I thought it was funny in parts, such as when he describes getting crabs. I didn't get a good feel for band politics, it seemed more like he wrote from a perspective of how it was to be an employee of the band and how he observed his bosses. (Maybe I didn't pick up on it.) I dropped jaw on the part about his dog Scooter and how he ended up on the cover of Tusk, Stevie said she'd put a hex on him and when the dog died a few years later, Stevie made a snide remark about it then said she she should have been the one on that album cover. Sure doesn't sound like the Stevie we've come to know and love... WOW! The technical parts about the songs are interspersed with the personal anecdotes, so it doesn't bog down there either. I went back and made notes so I could listen for certain things like the naugahyde chair in Second Hand News... we may have already known about that one, but the only one I remember is the Kleenex box on Tusk. I would recommend it. It's not too expensive, particularly if you can get the Kindle version, and it will only take a few days to read. Did I learn anything new? I dunno... but it was pretty cool the way he wrote made you feel like you were there. The fly on the wall thing is always cool. :thumbsup:

What I get is there was some real venom there... She was pissed offff over things. No wonder she branched out.

[jbrownsjr]

Just finished the book yesterday, while I lay in bed... sick. I liked it! I thought it would make a good HBO Movie-of-the-Week. It reads like it was written from his journal, although it does bounce around a little in terms of going off on certain tangents. For example, when his grandfather died, he expounded on family, but it does not take away from the general flow of the book. I thought it was funny in parts, such as when he describes getting crabs. I didn't get a good feel for band politics, it seemed more like he wrote from a perspective of how it was to be an employee of the band and how he observed his bosses. (Maybe I didn't pick up on it.) I dropped jaw on the part about his dog Scooter and how he ended up on the cover of Tusk, Stevie said she'd put a hex on him and when the dog died a few years later, Stevie made a snide remark about it then said she she should have been the one on that album cover. Sure doesn't sound like the Stevie we've come to know and love... WOW! The technical parts about the songs are interspersed with the personal anecdotes, so it doesn't bog down there either. I went back and made notes so I could listen for certain things like the naugahyde chair in Second Hand News... we may have already known about that one, but the only one I remember is the Kleenex box on Tusk. I would recommend it. It's not too expensive, particularly if you can get the Kindle version, and it will only take a few days to read. Did I learn anything new? I dunno... but it was pretty cool the way he wrote made you feel like you were there. The fly on the wall thing is always cool. :thumbsup:

Yeah, I love the way he wrote too.

[aleuzzi]

Will you help me with my Bartok?

Sure...The best preparation for Bartok is Bartok. Start with the early stuff from Microcosmos, then build gradually. Those early "easy" pieces really do prepare you for the swirling difficulties that come later!

[aleuzzi]

Yeah, I love the way he wrote too.

Okay, if you liked the book then I might buy it after all. I trust your judgment.

[Dodfather]

My copy arrived today, pre-ordered from Amazon in the US. I have a train journey this weekend - perfect reading!

[David A]

I just finished Ken’s book, and I was somewhat startled, and baffled and confused. Keep in mind, I am a LB fan #1 and FM fan #2, I did read CAH’s book about her time with FM and LB, and the picture she painted of LB wasn’t all that flattering, but I decided to just squash it. But, after reading Ken’s book, it is amazing how many demons LB must have had back in the day. But, I am confused how to feel about him now.

. I mean, I guess one can say he is a human being and we all make mistakes, and that let’s face it, he never put himself out there to be a role model, and maybe I should stick to loving his music and not care to much what kind of person he was/is. But, I’ll admit, for the most part vie always admired the person he is, not so sure any more

. I would say that FM may be great musicians, but I’d say not such great people, after reading this book.
. I do think FM was never obligated to take care of these people that worked with them, I mean Loyalty is one thing and judging from this FM doesn’t have any, but as far as taking care of these people, that wasn’t their job or duty, if people were too busy smoking dope or too stupid to make sure that they weren’t paid, then that’s on them and not the band.
. It’s weird, LB never struck me as a guy who people would be afraid of, if he was choking ppl, and I was there, I would have jumped in, heck LB isn’t the Hulk, so I wonder why people never did that, or if he choked me, like he did Ken, I would have punched him square in the face. People seemed really scared of LB, and for the life of me, don’t know why
. I am not going to even try and rationalize him abusing people, it’s just not right, and I wonder if he still even knows what he did, and down the road, id hate for his kids to read these things about their father. Its one thing to read these things about someone you idolized, but to read them about your Father is another.
. I do tend to agree with Ken that for the most part, LB was an unhappy person, that is self inflicted, and I sure hope he is a happier person today
. It’s strange, as bad as LB may have been, I tend to think w/out him being assertive, and we would never have gotten what we did from the band, which is a strange trade off
. 1997 Dance Time, I always did wonder why FM didn’t work with Richard and Ken again, loyalty again, and I do think that it would have been nice of LB to include Richard
. I tend to think that LB isn’t the greatest friend per say, he strikes me, after reading many books, that he would be someone who would befriend you for his use and advantage, and then after time, would pull away. Out of sight, out of mind per say. Example, I’ve always wondered why LB never kept in touch or worked more with Richard, Ken, Ray Lindsey, etc. I guess what im saying, is LB doesn’t strike me as a good friend to have. Whereas Mick strikes me as someone who would never forget you or help you (if he could)
. Ken, in some ways, I think was a little harsh on LB, but then again, these stories have been re told by others, so it’s hard to find ways to defend LB
. At this point, since they are older, I tend to think that FM or LB doesn’t care what we think, and I guess they have earned that right.

Bottom line, it’s a little harder today, after reading this book, to admire LB the man, I still adore the Musician, but the man himself isn’t as pretty as I may have thought, and it’s a little sad, because I think he may have hurt a lot of people along the way, I really wish he would write a book, do a interview to defend himself, or work with some of his old partners again.

David

[Silver Springs]

Probably naive of me, and I don't expect anybody to agree; but I have a lot of faith in people changing. It's true that Lindsey had a lot of personal demons back in the day, and when you're that unhappy you behave in irrational and downright dangerous ways. Although there are stories out there of him appearing as a diva now (I think it's probably a case of him demanding the best in order to portray his passion at its best), I like to think he's changed for the better. He's always been a romantic type, and he has a family now. Maybe that's helped to pave over alot of his personal problems and fill in some of those missing pieces in his life? Alot of people might have negative things to say about him, but a hell of a lot have absolutely glowing compliments for him. It's all relative, I guess.

[HejiraNYC]

Alot of people might have negative things to say about him, but a hell of a lot have absolutely glowing compliments for him. It's all relative, I guess.

Really? I have not heard any glowing anecdotes about Lindsey. No, I have not searched for them, but it seems like all you hear about are these unsavory accounts from former associates and lovers. True, Stevie has had nice things to say about him, but it's mostly been something to the effect of "he's not as much of an a-hole since he got married and had kids." Not exactly glowing. Lindsey has received praise for his guitar mastery, music production and his energetic live performances. But Lindsey as a person? Not so much.

I think the Destiny Rules documentary is about as close as we are going to get to observing the behavior of the "evolved," modern-day Lindsey. He seems pleasant enough most of the time. But there also seems to be this uneasy calm about him that occasionally seeps through via the occasional backhanded compliment or dig couched as "constructive criticism," e.g., the Bob Dylan verb tense conversation with Stevie. Rather than becoming a genuinely nicer person, he just seems to have learned to smile as he kicks you in the shin. Nevertheless, it's light years' worth of evolution from strangling one's neck!

[Betsy]

David A:

I found your observations to be interesting and thought provoking. I have not read the book but will now be more inclined to purchase it and read it. Thank you.

I am of the same age group as LB. I work with people (also of the same age group), with whom I would never call a friend. The reason is that these particular people, are so driven, that were I to call to their attention, the unfriendly way our clients and co-workers are treated, there would utter astonishment.

There is no room for other people in their heads. They are too focused with the topic of "me being the center of the universe" that to even think of others is beyond their comprehension.

In LB's case, I think it the genius that adds to the isolation. No one quite speaks the same language as is what is in the genius's head.

[David A]

thanks Betsy

Its just srange, I feel a little disapointed in the fact that maybe I had LB on this pedestal, that he really shouldnt be and thats not HIS fault , its mine :)

Like the other poster said, it just seems as if LB and even FM for that matter, arent real nice people per say, then again The Eagles are a bunch of a holes for that matter, LOL, I didnt need Don Felders book to tell me that :)

Its just I wish LB would have been different, or how can I say, I dont know, maybe try and defend him self

I really admired him 100 % and now I am struggling with it, as he doesnt seem as someone I would like to be or have my kids be , thats harsh, but Kens book doesnt portray him in a good light

I wonder what Ken thinks about how this effects LB fans and even FM fans

[michelej1]

Probably naive of me, and I don't expect anybody to agree; but I have a lot of faith in people changing.

He may have changed, I don't know. But even in the old days he had good qualities as well as bad qualities. Even then, he wasn't always angry or always difficult and even Ken's descriptions of the man, such as they are, make that fairly clear. He marveled at how boyish and playful Lindsey could be, detailing, for instance, the stupid nights they spent with Richard pouring liquor on each other's pants to make it seem like someone had urinated, contrasted with how uptight Lindsey could be in the studio. Just as Lindsey said Stevie in 1997 reminded him of the girl he used to live with, she has recalled the times when Lindsey used to be very sweet. Things aren't black and white. And never were.

Michele

[HejiraNYC]

You are making a moderator somewhere very, very unhappy!

[mylittledemon]

I have yet to read the book. Some of it may be embellished and some of it may not. :shrug: It is a piece of entertainment, least of all. Lindsey is just as human as the rest of us... His personal life (and how he treated people) may have been a disaster but he was a total pro at his work and I think that's what Ken seems to be saying based on what you wrote. After all, Ken never had to like LB... he only had to work with him. Besides, I don't think any of us have ever really thought of LB being a total saint. And I don't think Ken would have any incentive to lie about LB. Even if the actual truth was that LB was a totally placid and laid-back guy to be around, the book would still sell what it's going to what with "Rumours" slapped on it. ;)

[michelej1]

And I don't think Ken would have any incentive to lie about LB. Even if the actual truth was that LB was a totally placid and laid-back guy to be around, the book would still sell what it's going to what with "Rumours" slapped on it. ;)

I don't think it would, seeing as some people here said they didn't want to buy it if it had too much tech talk in it. They wanted something more gossipy. Plus, Ken said that he lost one book deal because it didn't have enough dirt in it. I think there was a legal dispute as to whether or not he had to return the royalty advance. So, a mere discussion of Rumours is not going to have books flying off the shelves.

For the record to those who aren't interested because it may be too inside baseball, I'm not technical AT ALL and I'm not a musician and still it didn't have too much tech talk for me. Ha, I even understood one thing and I was very proud of myself: You know how you are supposed to connect the speakers, so that the + - from the speakers matches the + - on the receiver? Well, if you don't do this things sound bad. I know this from setting up my own sound system at home. So, when Ken figured out that the speakers weren't phased and that's why the sound was so washed out at FM's tour, I felt, "Oh, gee I could have told you that!":laugh: I should be FM's next engineer.

Michele

[ThePenguin]

You are making a moderator somewhere very, very unhappy!

Nice point.

I know that people like a post to be seen by as many Ledgies as possible, but it actually facilitates discussion and future searches, if we don't have the same post in several forums. It's helpful to have everyone respond in one place. So, please don't cross-post. If the post is about Fleetwood Mac as a whole, then put it in the FM forum, even if you know more people will see it in the Stevie forum. Thank you.

[Betsy]

... Lindsey has received praise for his guitar mastery, music production and his energetic live performances. But Lindsey as a person? Not so much.

I think the Destiny Rules documentary is about as close as we are going to get to observing the behavior of the "evolved," modern-day Lindsey. He seems pleasant enough most of the time. But there also seems to be this uneasy calm about him that occasionally seeps through via the occasional backhanded compliment or dig couched as "constructive criticism," e.g., the Bob Dylan verb tense conversation with Stevie. Rather than becoming a genuinely nicer person, he just seems to have learned to smile as he kicks you in the shin. ....


Very nicely and eloquently put.

Something I have wondered about, (and of course, it is absolutely none of my business....)

There is the account of LB's performing and being very ill, later to be discovered that he had/has epilepsy. I presume it is under control with medication or perhaps his body has changed and he no longer has the ailment.

Wasn't its presence discovered during the Rumours era and maybe some of the unpleasant personality traits are side effects of the medication? :shrug::shrug::shrug:

[sodascouts]

Any medication used to control seizures can cause a variety of side effects - different ones for different people. Some meds may cause a person to have mood swings and amp-up aggressive tendencies, even to the point of causing unpredictable irrational rages. Whenever a medication causes a person to have an extreme reaction like that, though, neurologists are quick to switch the patient off of it and try another one. They don't want their patients going psycho on them!

In Lindsey's case, however, his condition was discovered after they had finished making Rumours - 1978 or so, I believe. To the best of my knowledge, the only "medications" he was ingesting regularly at that time were marijuana and cocaine (usually the former, from most accounts, but who knows just how much he was doing or if anything else was thrown in there).

[shackin'up]

A controlfreak in an environment of chaos, drugs and equally big ego's can be a monster, I'm sure. It's nothing new to me; he has been an out of control character at times. I can only say that when I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

[starshine]

thanks Betsy

Its just srange, I feel a little disapointed in the fact that maybe I had LB on this pedestal, that he really shouldnt be and thats not HIS fault , its mine :)

Like the other poster said, it just seems as if LB and even FM for that matter, arent real nice people per say, then again The Eagles are a bunch of a holes for that matter, LOL, I didnt need Don Felders book to tell me that :)

Its just I wish LB would have been different, or how can I say, I dont know, maybe try and defend him self

I really admired him 100 % and now I am struggling with it, as he doesnt seem as someone I would like to be or have my kids be , thats harsh, but Kens book doesnt portray him in a good light

I wonder what Ken thinks about how this effects LB fans and even FM fans

I hear what your saying. I haven't read this 'new' book yet but I did read the Carol Harris book. It was interesting to say the least. I hadn't know that Lindsey could really get that violent. It was eye opening to say the least. I did also read Don Felders book about the Eagles. I like there music also but as people not so much anymore. I've liked Don Henley(his music) more than Glen Frey though. Can't stand Frey. Can't say I blame Felder for sueing them if they really tried to take 'all the $$' of course who knows really how much of the full true story we've gotten. I'm sure Frey/Henley will never speak about it. Walsh/Schmidt will keep there mouths shut cause well they are making some $$ but probably not the $$ that Frey/Henley make. They'll ride the gravey train til it ends. Plus they see what happended to Felder & don't want to go there.
Its disappointing when people we like aren't who we think they are. I also hope that Lindsey is a happier person than before. Sometimes I wonder about all of them. I never see any of them smile much. Stevie always seems unhappy in photos of her (posed ones for IYD) I do hope I'm wrong. Who knows ?? I guess only there true friends know. I know all these artists are human just like the rest of us. They still have to go to the restroom like we do (just maybe in a bigger larger more beautiful bathroom). Anyway, it is what it is. Well, I could keep rambling on but I won't hope you understand.....:shrug::D

[holidayroad]

I still think a lot of the things that Lindsey did at the time were done under the influence of alcohol/marijuana/cocaine/ and maybe more. I'm sure plenty of people could tell you that they have seen people act certain ways when they are 'high' that they would never act if they were sober. I'm not saying it's okay to act that way. It would explain a lot, though.

Still, a lot of what gets said doesn't always make sense. Like David A said, if Lindsey is doing some of this in front of others, why was no one stopping him? Were they all too high to care? Why let him do just anything he wants?

I will say that even I could tell that Lindsey had a major ego in the past and I'm sure that, in some ways, Lindsey's biggest fan was Lindsey himself. I guess if I had done a huge amount of work on an album that was one of the best selling albums of all time, I might have been that way, too.

[cliffdweller]

Like David A said, if Lindsey is doing some of this in front of others, why was no one stopping him? Were they all too high to care? Why let him do just anything he wants?

I'm guessing being high had a lot to do with it. I also think that all the band members (not just Stevie and Lindsey), had huge egos and felt that no one could touch them in their insular Fleetwood Mac bubble. They could and did do whatever they wanted. It's not like Richard Dashut was going to rush out of the control room to Ken's aid when Lindsey attacked him. Everyone wanted to stay on the FM gravy train, not rock the boat too much, keep everything as cool as possible amidst the chaos and just finish the damn album! It's hard to believe people would sit idly by while someone was being attacked, but I really believe that the band members thought that certain rules didn't apply to them and everyone else around them just kind of fell in line. How else to explain such abhorrent behavior?

[TrueFaith77]

Its just I wish LB would have been different, or how can I say, I dont know, maybe try and defend him self



Has he defended himself or confessed himself in any of his music?

[jbrownsjr]

I don't think it would, seeing as some people here said they didn't want to buy it if it had too much tech talk in it. They wanted something more gossipy. Plus, Ken said that he lost one book deal because it didn't have enough dirt in it. I think there was a legal dispute as to whether or not he had to return the royalty advance. So, a mere discussion of Rumours is not going to have books flying off the shelves.

For the record to those who aren't interested because it may be too inside baseball, I'm not technical AT ALL and I'm not a musician and still it didn't have too much tech talk for me. Ha, I even understood one thing and I was very proud of myself: You know how you are supposed to connect the speakers, so that the + - from the speakers matches the + - on the receiver? Well, if you don't do this things sound bad. I know this from setting up my own sound system at home. So, when Ken figured out that the speakers weren't phased and that's why the sound was so washed out at FM's tour, I felt, "Oh, gee I could have told you that!":laugh: I should be FM's next engineer.

Michele

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

[sodascouts]

I still think a lot of the things that Lindsey did at the time were done under the influence of alcohol/marijuana/cocaine/ and maybe more. I'm sure plenty of people could tell you that they have seen people act certain ways when they are 'high' that they would never act if they were sober. I'm not saying it's okay to act that way. It would explain a lot, though.

Very true. I think this had a lot to do with it. I believe, at heart, he's a good guy.

I did also read Don Felders book about the Eagles. I like there music also but as people not so much anymore. I've liked Don Henley(his music) more than Glen Frey though. Can't stand Frey. Can't say I blame Felder for sueing them if they really tried to take 'all the $$' of course who knows really how much of the full true story we've gotten. I'm sure Frey/Henley will never speak about it. Walsh/Schmidt will keep there mouths shut cause well they are making some $$ but probably not the $$ that Frey/Henley make. They'll ride the gravey train til it ends. Plus they see what happended to Felder & don't want to go there.
Its disappointing when people we like aren't who we think they are.

I read Felder's book too and there were a lot of inaccuracies. A few of the fights he described having with Frey on certain dates were logistically impossible or contradicted in his promotional interviews. Just something to think about before you buy everything he's selling. Unlike others, he definitely has a motive to "exaggerate" - not only resentment from being fired, but acrimony due to the lawsuit.

That's the same reason I don't buy a lot of Carol Ann Harris' book. She arguably had an agenda against Lindsey. It's Caillat's book that gave me pause.

[HomerMcvie]

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

Well the reason is, that a speaker has "polarity". If it's wired backwards, it's "out of phase". And some speakers ARE wired backwards. In general, "red lugs" are used to indicate the positive terminal. However, for years, JBL used the black terminal for positive, no doubt screwing up many people's systems, who weren't aware to the "backwards" wiring. An insider trick for checking polarity on a speaker, is to take a 9volt battery, and connect the positive lug, to the positive lug on the speaker(and the negative to the negative)...the speaker should jump FORWARD...that indicates that you're connected to the positive jack. If the speaker "retracts", then the speaker is wired backwards.

How's that for too much tech info?:lol:

[michelej1]

It's not like Richard Dashut was going to rush out of the control room to Ken's aid when Lindsey attacked him.

No one needed to rush out to Ken's aid. Ken saw him coming. The way he describes it, the minute he told Lindsey he had erased the last take, Lindsey got angry and began the approach. It was neither a sudden, nor a stealth strangle, which is what makes it seem completely ridiculous to me. I don't think no one did anything because they were high or uncaring. Ken writes that both Richard and Christine reminded Lindsey that he told Richard to erase the take and shouldn't be mad that Ken had done just that. It seems to me that no one bothered to stop the attack because they did not actually consider it a physical attack.

Michele

[michelej1]

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

That was fun, because it's something even a layman can relate too.

Even though I didn't try the puzzle, it was also nice the way he laid out Rumours in the book, told us how many minutes we could have on each side and challenged us to arrange the tracks better than they had (and include Silver Springs) if we possibly could.

But even though 99% of the audio issues he described were quite beyond anything I'd ever encounter as a listener, I think he did a good job of explaining in plain terms, that left you with an understanding of both the resolutions he found and also the expertise, precision and talent that goes into the production of a record.

Michele

[mylittledemon]

I checked my speakers after I read that just to be sure. I had been having sound problems with no high ends showing..

Gasp! Did you blow your tweeters?

I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

Same here. He was nothing but friendly.

[elle]

I can only say that when I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

Same here. He was nothing but friendly.

for some more of this type of Lindsey encounters start at page 4 here http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=48776&highlight=conversation+lindsey&page=4 (the thread is 11 pages). he was warm, friendly, and extremely attentive to each person at the spontaneous m&g they staged.

[Nico]

I understand that many of the things Lindsey is accused of doing in Ken's book are absolutely inexcusable. But I also would like to say that we are hearing/reading all this from these people who, apparently, are in connection with one another to some degree. Not that it means none of it happened, but even as I scanned through Ken's book- and I am buying it- I noticed how much Lindsey was brought up. Much of it was really very positive descriptions of his genius and many gifts. But the other stuff, well, seemed a little fueled by a purpose- to really make it clear that LB is a hard person to deal with and very unpleasant in real life.

The truth is, we don't know any of these people. Because Lindsey is the one being singled out most of the time does not mean he is the monster. I also once wished Linds would say something to sort of "explain" these things- particularly when CAH's book came out. But now I don't think it is necessary. Everyone is entitled to their life, their truth. Lindsey may have worked things out in his private life and he owes none of us any of those details. Because other people write about his wrongdoings in elaborate detail does not mean he has to explain it so.

Like Bee said many posts above, I also believe in change. I think the man Lindsey is now, the father and husband, is a testament to that. Obviously, he has come a long way. And even if only some of these things are true, or all, or none...he DID have issues. He still does. So does Stevie and Mick, John, etc. In order to get to the top of your game you have to sacrifice a lot. Sometimes it means being unpleasant as a means to get what you want. And, in this case, the art that Fleetwood Mac gave us would never have been just so had Lindsey been a sweet, complacent easygoing doll. Not that he'd be that way anyways. :lol:

I have met Lindsey several times. He is, honestly, the nicest, most approachable guy. He was gracious, accommodating, friendly, and very humble. I only have my own experiences to go by. And what I have witnessed of him is really an extremely brilliant man who is very passionate about his work, very generous to his fans, and truly a singular artist in terms of what he gives back to all those who come to his shows. I know he's imperfect. I don't hold him up on a pedestal. But he is a musical genius who had some very serious health and drug problems. The combination of all that can be a very challenging and even scary one to behold.

But I think Linds has come a LONG way, and maybe those cycles he is always talking about have deeper resonance to him than even we know. That's all I have.

[bombaysaffires]

A controlfreak in an environment of chaos, drugs and equally big ego's can be a monster, I'm sure. It's nothing new to me; he has been an out of control character at times. I can only say that when I met him in 2008, I met a very pleasant, warm and genuinely interested man at ease and in balance. Not a cocky prick with control issues.

Lindsey in many ways sounds like the classic, almost stereotypical brilliant artist--- whether it's painters or musicians or filmmakers or whomever, throughout history there have always been these geniuses at some form of art who in some way "suffered" in getting their art out of their heads and into the world. As others have said, sometimes you have to be willing to be perceived as a jerk/prick/a-hole to some people to ensure that your vision gets communicated to your audience the way YOU want it to and not corrupted by others with a different agenda. Factor in the stress of perfectionism (and LB seems often his own worst critic, constantly tweaking and stressing over getting his music just right), emotional stress of working with an ex you still love to some degree, drugs, fame and adulation..... it's not wonder he was a bit of a mess (and Stevie and the rest too). The manifestation of whatever internal demons as physical violence against others of course takes it to a whole different level. It is fascinating to watch and talk about from afar, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't have to experience it or live and work with it!

[michelej1]

The truth is, we don't know any of these people. Because Lindsey is the one being singled out most of the time does not mean he is the monster.

Certainly it doesn't. Lindsey's responsible for his own behavior, but not every decision the band ever made. Ken claims Lindsey is the reason the band didn't do interviews with Ken for this book. Lindsey is the reason the band didn't ask him or Richard to work on The Dance. Lindsey being jealous of the Rumours cover is the reason the band abandoned Herbie. Give me a break!

Stevie had her own friendship with Herbie. Even if Lindsey dictated that FM stop using him as its photographer, that would be no reason for Stevie to stop using him in her personal career on her own photo shoots and album covers. Clearly she and her people make photography decisions that have nothing to do with Lindsey, but in that book everything is Lindsey's fault.

As someone else pointed out, the very last sentence in the book is about Lindsey. The whole book is skewered in a rather hilarious fashion. Of course, it's still informative and entertaining. Just read it like you drive a car that's out of alignment: make the necessary adjustments to the steering wheel, if you really want to go straight.

Michele

[MrStevie]

I just finished Ken’s book, and I was somewhat startled, and baffled and confused. Keep in mind, I am a LB fan #1 and FM fan #2, I did read CAH’s book about her time with FM and LB, and the picture she painted of LB wasn’t all that flattering, but I decided to just squash it. But, after reading Ken’s book, it is amazing how many demons LB must have had back in the day. But, I am confused how to feel about him now.

. I mean, I guess one can say he is a human being and we all make mistakes, and that let’s face it, he never put himself out there to be a role model, and maybe I should stick to loving his music and not care to much what kind of person he was/is. But, I’ll admit, for the most part vie always admired the person he is, not so sure any more

. I would say that FM may be great musicians, but I’d say not such great people, after reading this book.
. I do think FM was never obligated to take care of these people that worked with them, I mean Loyalty is one thing and judging from this FM doesn’t have any, but as far as taking care of these people, that wasn’t their job or duty, if people were too busy smoking dope or too stupid to make sure that they weren’t paid, then that’s on them and not the band.
. It’s weird, LB never struck me as a guy who people would be afraid of, if he was choking ppl, and I was there, I would have jumped in, heck LB isn’t the Hulk, so I wonder why people never did that, or if he choked me, like he did Ken, I would have punched him square in the face. People seemed really scared of LB, and for the life of me, don’t know why
. I am not going to even try and rationalize him abusing people, it’s just not right, and I wonder if he still even knows what he did, and down the road, id hate for his kids to read these things about their father. Its one thing to read these things about someone you idolized, but to read them about your Father is another.
. I do tend to agree with Ken that for the most part, LB was an unhappy person, that is self inflicted, and I sure hope he is a happier person today
. It’s strange, as bad as LB may have been, I tend to think w/out him being assertive, and we would never have gotten what we did from the band, which is a strange trade off
. 1997 Dance Time, I always did wonder why FM didn’t work with Richard and Ken again, loyalty again, and I do think that it would have been nice of LB to include Richard
. I tend to think that LB isn’t the greatest friend per say, he strikes me, after reading many books, that he would be someone who would befriend you for his use and advantage, and then after time, would pull away. Out of sight, out of mind per say. Example, I’ve always wondered why LB never kept in touch or worked more with Richard, Ken, Ray Lindsey, etc. I guess what im saying, is LB doesn’t strike me as a good friend to have. Whereas Mick strikes me as someone who would never forget you or help you (if he could)
. Ken, in some ways, I think was a little harsh on LB, but then again, these stories have been re told by others, so it’s hard to find ways to defend LB
. At this point, since they are older, I tend to think that FM or LB doesn’t care what we think, and I guess they have earned that right.

Bottom line, it’s a little harder today, after reading this book, to admire LB the man, I still adore the Musician, but the man himself isn’t as pretty as I may have thought, and it’s a little sad, because I think he may have hurt a lot of people along the way, I really wish he would write a book, do a interview to defend himself, or work with some of his old partners again.

David

Man, oh man. You're saying everything I was thinking lately. I was a big fan of this man for years. Now, not so much. I had a ticket for SF next month. I gave it away last weekend. Enough is enough. Nasty trash talk has been going around about him for decades. It never concerned me much. People in bands are obnoxious, selfish and egotistical. Everbody says LB is an ahole. So? :shocked:

I guess I'm thinking differently now. At first I thought Ken was a backstabbing ingrate because LB wouldn't throw him a bone. After thinking it over a few weeks I haven't changed my mind about Ken, but I have about LB because too many people say the same thing about his abusive nature and repeated violent behavior. Why? The only reason I can come up. Nobody likes the guy. Why? See question1.:o

You're right. He doesn't care what we think. It's not that I care he doesn't explain himself. What finally turned my appreciation of his genius to contempt is the fact that nobody comes to his defense. Nobody. Everyone in a position to know says the same thing or stays silent. People who do talk agree how bad this guy is. How nobody likes him.:o

One thing I can't shake. How people he's worked with or been friends with will only give him a pass when they need or want something from him. When there's no more to gain they trash him with no shame. It's been an ongoing pattern for years, and I can't ignore it anymore. :(

I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now. :mad:

[Jondalar]

Man, oh man. You're saying everything I was thinking lately. I was a big fan of this man for years. Now, not so much. I had a ticket for SF next month. I gave it away last weekend. Enough is enough. Nasty trash talk has been going around about him for decades. It never concerned me much. People in bands are obnoxious, selfish and egotistical. Everbody says LB is an ahole. So? :shocked:

I guess I'm thinking differently now. At first I thought Ken was a backstabbing ingrate because LB wouldn't throw him a bone. After thinking it over a few weeks I haven't changed my mind about Ken, but I have about LB because too many people say the same thing about his abusive nature and repeated violent behavior. Why? The only reason I can come up. Nobody likes the guy. Why? See question1.:o

You're right. He doesn't care what we think. It's not that I care he doesn't explain himself. What finally turned my appreciation of his genius to contempt is the fact that nobody comes to his defense. Nobody. Everyone in a position to know says the same thing or stays silent. People who do talk agree how bad this guy is. How nobody likes him.:o

One thing I can't shake. How people he's worked with or been friends with will only give him a pass when they need or want something from him. When there's no more to gain they trash him with no shame. It's been an ongoing pattern for years, and I can't ignore it anymore. :(

I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now. :mad:

It doesn't seem to me that any of these people are perfect. The pressure was on Lindsey. Anger came out in certain ways. There is no justifying it. It seems like he is a real passionate person and takes things all the way - his music, maybe his loves. When those thing don't work out he strikes out.

[McTrouble]

Oh my - I've nothing to say except that I love and admire Lindsey.

I will never trash him or be disloyal - my feelings remain unchanged.

Let he who is without sin.........



Oh, and Nico....... :)

[David]

I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now. :mad:Have you reacted similarly to other artists who have been shown to be despicable people? Dali? Polanski? Brecht? Wagner?

[mezzoforte]

Have you reacted similarly to other artists who have been shown to be despicable people? Dali? Polanski? Brecht? Wagner?

I obviously can't speak for MrStevie, but I actually have decided not to support any of Polanski's films. I may reevaluate after his death, but while he's alive, I don't want a penny of my money going to a man who raped a child and never payed the price.
John Phillips (probably the most monstrous artist of all time?) is my very favorite songwriter, but I don't know that I would spend money on his music, were he still living.
So while I don't share MrStevie's feelings about Mr. Buckingham, I certainly see where he's coming from, and respect his decision to withdraw his support as a fan. We all have our boundaries for our idols.

Now, I believe Ken's and Carol Ann's stories about Lindsey, but they haven't changed my love for his music. I've been disappointed to learn what he was like in that era, but I do think he's worked extremely hard over the years to battle his demons. The man speaks therapist.
And on a personal level, having lived with a brother who once had severe anger management problems but has worked through them and changed completely, I really believe in people's ability to change. Until we hear negative stories about Lindsey's behavior in the present, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[sodascouts]

I'm with you, mezzoforte. Polanski's sexual assault of a minor sickens me to the degree where I no longer can appreciate his work.

However, at least in my opinion, Lindsey's occasional violent outbursts 20+ years ago aren't anywhere near as repulsive as raping a 13-year-old. (I'm not trying to justify Lindsey's behavior - that's just my feelings on the matter).

My reaction is no more or less valid than others'. Just like I don't want to be told that I'm overreacting to Polanski, I'm not going to tell others they're overreacting about Lindsey if they choose to turn away from him. Each person can make that decision for him or herself.

As for me, I think Lindsey's changed and I respect that. I don't hold his past behavior against him. It's the present that matters to me. JMHO.

[CADreaming]

The way I look at it - Lindsey may be an affable, friendly guy with a good heart but that doesn't mean he isn't an a-hole with a violent temper at times. (Really, I dont expect him to fly into a fist slinging, neck strangling rage with his fans...) And, just because he has a violent temper doesn't mean he was or is an abuser. I recall he practically destroyed a guitar in recent years, so I don't believe alcohol/drugs are all to blame-probably just made him worse. But, silence from witnesses doesn't necessarily indicate anything stronger than a collective shrug from people who know him best and don't feel there is any claim serious enough to warrant a defense. For the same reason no one got up and bothered to protect anyone who was being "attacked" in any of the incidences described (Ken, CAH, Stevie) - they knew there was no real threat.

[michelej1]

The way I look at it - Lindsey may be an affable, friendly guy with a good heart but that doesn't mean he isn't an a-hole with a violent temper at times. (Really, I dont expect him to fly into a fist slinging, neck strangling rage with his fans...) And, just because he has a violent temper doesn't mean he was or is an abuser. I recall he practically destroyed a guitar in recent years, so I don't believe alcohol/drugs are all to blame-probably just made him worse. But, silence from witnesses doesn't necessarily indicate anything stronger than a collective shrug from people who know him best and don't feel there is any claim serious enough to warrant a defense. For the same reason no one got up and bothered to protect anyone who was being "attacked" in any of the incidences described (Ken, CAH, Stevie) - they knew there was no real threat.

I agree with this. Just because you smiled at some fans doesn't mean you aren't abusing family members and co-workers away from the stage. So, I don't see that as proof of anything. Additionally, alcohol, drugs, and epilepsy don't excuse violent behavior either. So, if he went around punching women, there is no condition that would justify that behavior in my mind.

As for whether it happened, I certainly don't see silence or the silence of his friends and co-workers as proof of anything. Maybe they simply think that discussing it will only give the allegations more publicity. So far, we haven't seen any of them asked about it in the press. And believe me, if they were asked and refused to respond, I think that would rate a mention in the news articles too. So far, it hasn't happened. I don't think anyone cares except us. The Sheryl Crow thing made a big splash in the mainstream press. This other stuff does not.


So, the idea that they would proactively speak out against CAH or Ken seems absurd to me. It's not as if those books made the NY Times Bestseller list. They're well known to a devoted community of FM fans, but not to the masses.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Gasp! Did you blow your tweeters?



Same here. He was nothing but friendly.

hahaha!!! can you imagine if people were walking out of the meet and greet with choke marks around their necks like Carol Anne.. lol!!!

ok I'll be good now... :wavey::laugh::sorry:

[starshine]

Very true. I think this had a lot to do with it. I believe, at heart, he's a good guy.



I read Felder's book too and there were a lot of inaccuracies. A few of the fights he described having with Frey on certain dates were logistically impossible or contradicted in his promotional interviews. Just something to think about before you buy everything he's selling. Unlike others, he definitely has a motive to "exaggerate" - not only resentment from being fired, but acrimony due to the lawsuit.

That's the same reason I don't buy a lot of Carol Ann Harris' book. She arguably had an agenda against Lindsey. It's Caillat's book that gave me pause. I hear what your saying about Felder & all. But really since they were high on drugs most of them --the rest of the Eagles probably wouldn't have the exact dates of issues that occured. Look how Stevie is with timelines/tour dates etc. I don't 'buy' all that he's selling me. But it is one point of view from a 'larger' than life band just like Fmac. I'm sure none of them love it that there 'dirty laundry'(LOL--DH song) is in the public esp from a former band member but thats life deal with it . I'm sure they all have there own agenda but thats there issues --still interesting to read though. Just saying.:shrug::D ps probably don't buy what any of them sell in there stories but it was there life at that time--there right to tell it and all. It is what it is.

[sodascouts]

Yeah, I don't have the greatest memory myself and I don't even do drugs. I can see how dates can get confused. There are other inaccuracies that are more difficult to explain away. Still, this thread isn't about the Eagles, so I'll resist the urge to go into greater detail.

I do tend to give my faves the benefit of the doubt. Even now, though I don't know him and have no proof to back it up, I still believe Lindsey's a good guy. I believe this in spite of the fact that I also believe he occasionally went ballistic and grabbed people in chokeholds when enraged. Why? Because I adore his music and I think he's great. That makes no logical sense, but there it is!

BTW Sue - "Starshine" is one of my favorite demos so your username always makes me smile!

[elle]

Just because you smiled at some fans doesn't mean you aren't abusing family members and co-workers away from the stage.

it doesn't, and i don't think anybody tried to suggest that.

fan experiences partially address the assertion that LB "sucks the fun out of every room he enters" and that nobody ever has anything good to say about him. people brought up their personal experiences to the contrary.

[michelej1]

fan experiences partially address the assertion that LB "sucks the fun out of every room he enters"

I laughed in Ken's book when he said he was surprised that Lindsey was happy to see him because Lindsey was so rarely happy about anything, because Ken himself had already offered 100 incidents in previous pages when Lindsey WAS happy, positive, laughing, satisfied, etc., so the idea that he was always a downer contradicted other passages of the book, much less the impressions of other people ouside of the book.

Michele

[starshine]

Yeah, I don't have the greatest memory myself and I don't even do drugs. I can see how dates can get confused. There are other inaccuracies that are more difficult to explain away. Still, this thread isn't about the Eagles, so I'll resist the urge to go into greater detail.

I do tend to give my faves the benefit of the doubt. Even now, though I don't know him and have no proof to back it up, I still believe Lindsey's a good guy. I believe this in spite of the fact that I also believe he occasionally went ballistic and grabbed people in chokeholds when enraged. Why? Because I adore his music and I think he's great. That makes no logical sense, but there it is!

BTW Sue - "Starshine" is one of my favorite demos so your username always makes me smile! Hi is your name Nancy. Thanks about 'Starshine' its always one of my favorite demos/outtakes from BD one that I wish was offically released (amoung many many others like Blue Water) I could go on & on about this subject too. Thats nice of you to say. Its so hard to pick screen names & well it was one of my favorite UNR songs so I just had to pick it!! What does yours mean? if you don't mind me asking? I also love the buck/nicks web site its great!! Just like I'd loved the sararhiannon web site many moons ago. Its sad how many great web sites aren't the 'offical' ones. Sad but true. Sorry to have taken over the tread about the Eagles. I guess we may love our favorites artists etc but not the person so much. I guess I have just tried to let all of that go--not easy sometimes but none of us is perfect & we all have our faults & addictions so to speak. I don't do drugs either so I don't know what Mac etc have went through. I guess for them it could be a shame because they probably don't remember the good things very well or the bad either. When I first go into Mac in like the late 80's along with Stevie's solo stuff I'd never liked Lindsey much cause of what I heard he'd done to Stevie but than I just let it go cause well I wasn't 'there' & it wasn't my issue's so to speak. I do like most of his solo stuff though my favorite is still OOTC it'll always be my favorite solo cd of his though I do have most of the others too. I always recall what a good friend of mine said. Don't know if it really goes with what were talking about but anyway: You can respect the job of said person but not the man/woman in that job. Does this make any sense? I may not be saying it right either. Anyway, nice to know my name Starshine makes you smile!! :thumbsup:

[sodascouts]

Yes, it's Nancy. Thanks for the kind words and I too miss the old sites like sararhiannon.com and burnish.net. Despite the lack of timely updates, I plan to keep buckinghamnicks.net online until I die or run out of money, whichever comes first!

It's true you can love the music without loving the man (or woman). Perhaps we shouldn't even concern ourselves... but the information is out there and it's only natural to discuss it.

[henryscutter]

I just finished Ken’s book, and I was somewhat startled, and baffled and confused. Keep in mind, I am a LB fan #1 and FM fan #2, I did read CAH’s book about her time with FM and LB, and the picture she painted of LB wasn’t all that flattering, but I decided to just squash it. But, after reading Ken’s book, it is amazing how many demons LB must have had back in the day. But, I am confused how to feel about him now.

. I mean, I guess one can say he is a human being and we all make mistakes, and that let’s face it, he never put himself out there to be a role model, and maybe I should stick to loving his music and not care to much what kind of person he was/is. But, I’ll admit, for the most part vie always admired the person he is, not so sure any more

. I would say that FM may be great musicians, but I’d say not such great people, after reading this book.
. I do think FM was never obligated to take care of these people that worked with them, I mean Loyalty is one thing and judging from this FM doesn’t have any, but as far as taking care of these people, that wasn’t their job or duty, if people were too busy smoking dope or too stupid to make sure that they weren’t paid, then that’s on them and not the band.
. It’s weird, LB never struck me as a guy who people would be afraid of, if he was choking ppl, and I was there, I would have jumped in, heck LB isn’t the Hulk, so I wonder why people never did that, or if he choked me, like he did Ken, I would have punched him square in the face. People seemed really scared of LB, and for the life of me, don’t know why
. I am not going to even try and rationalize him abusing people, it’s just not right, and I wonder if he still even knows what he did, and down the road, id hate for his kids to read these things about their father. Its one thing to read these things about someone you idolized, but to read them about your Father is another.
. I do tend to agree with Ken that for the most part, LB was an unhappy person, that is self inflicted, and I sure hope he is a happier person today
. It’s strange, as bad as LB may have been, I tend to think w/out him being assertive, and we would never have gotten what we did from the band, which is a strange trade off
. 1997 Dance Time, I always did wonder why FM didn’t work with Richard and Ken again, loyalty again, and I do think that it would have been nice of LB to include Richard
. I tend to think that LB isn’t the greatest friend per say, he strikes me, after reading many books, that he would be someone who would befriend you for his use and advantage, and then after time, would pull away. Out of sight, out of mind per say. Example, I’ve always wondered why LB never kept in touch or worked more with Richard, Ken, Ray Lindsey, etc. I guess what im saying, is LB doesn’t strike me as a good friend to have. Whereas Mick strikes me as someone who would never forget you or help you (if he could)
. Ken, in some ways, I think was a little harsh on LB, but then again, these stories have been re told by others, so it’s hard to find ways to defend LB
. At this point, since they are older, I tend to think that FM or LB doesn’t care what we think, and I guess they have earned that right.

Bottom line, it’s a little harder today, after reading this book, to admire LB the man, I still adore the Musician, but the man himself isn’t as pretty as I may have thought, and it’s a little sad, because I think he may have hurt a lot of people along the way, I really wish he would write a book, do a interview to defend himself, or work with some of his old partners again.

David

I have not read Ken's book so I cant comment on it yet. When the Harris book came out we didnt hear a peep from FM. I suppose they didnt want to give it any publicity, so they didnt refute her stories. That will probably be the case with this book. Keep quiet and hope it goes away.The book may have something to do with there being no big FM tour this summer.

As far as the band defending themselves, if they do it will probably be in a song. I like to think that Everybody Finds Out is Stevie's response to Carol Ann's jealous portrayal of her in the book.' You cant love him you cant have him= I do have him most of the time. Anytime we can get away". There was one point in the book where Carol mentions Lindsey going to Stevie's hotel room to talk to her about being mean to poor innocent Carol. Carol says Lindsey was gone for hours. Did she really think they were talking about her all that time? She was definitely dilusional about the 'Spectre of Stevie'. The part in EFO when Stevie says "you always know when somethings wrong, my friend" sounds like she is adressing Carol's attempt to befriend her after she trashes her through out the book.
For Lindsey, I can see Red Rover being a response to Harris. You dont belong here, I guess you never did = FM circle, Red Rover we come to take you over= sarcasm of her innocent act and her portrayal of the band. One of the quiet ones one of the few, now fall down onto your knees show us all what you can do= I have always thought of Carol as a glorified groupie so I will leave that up to interpetation :laugh:
There may be other references in songs that we havent noticed?

[Cammie]

:shrug: The only one I feel sorry for aside from the family who love Daddy and his little wife...is David falling for this mean spirited,nasty book!!!:mad:Ken ought to be ashamed...there must be a better way to raise money! Ken cannot spoil my admiration for Lindsey's music!

God Bless and Keep Lindsey and his family in His Loving Care!!!:angel:

[Hawkeye]

I wish my eyes were open sooner. I wasted a lot of years listening to his music and going to his concerts. It kinda makes me sick now. :mad:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Really??? you feel you've wasted your years listening to his music and going to his concert. This is the most disturbing post in this whole thread.

[holidayroad]

As far as the band defending themselves, if they do it will probably be in a song. I like to think that Everybody Finds Out is Stevie's response to Carol Ann's jealous portrayal of her in the book.' You cant love him you cant have him= I do have him most of the time. Anytime we can get away". There was one point in the book where Carol mentions Lindsey going to Stevie's hotel room to talk to her about being mean to poor innocent Carol. Carol says Lindsey was gone for hours. Did she really think they were talking about her all that time? She was definitely dilusional about the 'Spectre of Stevie'. The part in EFO when Stevie says "you always know when somethings wrong, my friend" sounds like she is adressing Carol's attempt to befriend her after she trashes her through out the book.
For Lindsey, I can see Red Rover being a response to Harris. You dont belong here, I guess you never did = FM circle, Red Rover we come to take you over= sarcasm of her innocent act and her portrayal of the band. One of the quiet ones one of the few, now fall down onto your knees show us all what you can do= I have always thought of Carol as a glorified groupie so I will leave that up to interpetation :laugh:
There may be other references in songs that we havent noticed?

I like your reasoning, but CAH's book was released after SYW. :sorry:

[tabruns]

It doesn't seem to me that any of these people are perfect. The pressure was on Lindsey. Anger came out in certain ways. There is no justifying it. It seems like he is a real passionate person and takes things all the way - his music, maybe his loves. When those thing don't work out he strikes out.

Hopefully now that he has children he sees the bigger picture and if he does anger management issues those are now under control. Stevie's said several times in interviews that since becoming a father Lindsey is a "gentler" person, so maybe that has happened.

[michelej1]

Hopefully now that he has children he sees the bigger picture and if he does anger management issues those are now under control. Stevie's said several times in interviews that since becoming a father Lindsey is a "gentler" person, so maybe that has happened.

And she says he reminds her of the gentler person she used to know a long time ago.

Michele

[cliffdweller]

And she says he reminds her of the gentler person she used to know a long time ago.

Michele

Yeah, I think Lindsey pretty much lost his mind for the better part of the 70's and 80's and I'm sure all that craziness was due to drugs, stress of carrying the band as a producer and arranger and the insta-fame of BN line-up FM. I would be very surprised if he was still choking people today.

[Regina]

I did not read the book. I have no intention of reading the book. But, as I'm skimming through some of the comments...this is the thought that comes back to me: can people change?
People are born with certain traits. And, I do believe certain basic personalities (and/or the disorders that come with them) are inherited/genetic. So, let's say we have an alcoholic. When they are "clean and sober," for a certain number of years...we applaud them for being clean and sober and hope/pray/believe...they will stay that way for the rest of their lives. No one who may know them intimately will ever forget their days as active alcoholics but they move on because the person has. And, we assume that people can change their lives for the better. And, frankly, many do.
Certainly, other addictions/personality disorders...seem to have more impact and are harder to forgive. BUT, as a fan of a musician, do we toss the person's talent and our fandom aside because we hear second-hand accounts of past behavior? Especially when this behavior was so enabled.
Take Michael Jackson. He's dead so he's a saint all of a sudden. (And I'm not starting a debate...I'm just bringing up a point). Rumors of his molesting kids seem to have fallen by the wayside. But, again, if true--this was behavior that was enabled. Even by the kids' parents. Even MJ's death was enabled because he was paying people to break the law and give him what he wanted. Famous people have Yes men and women surrounding them. Very few people are stopped from doing exactly what they want--legal or not legal, moral or immoral.
I'm not excusing Lindsey's behavior (assuming every single thing we've heard is 100% true) but everyone, including Ken--including Carol Ann--including EVERY single member of FM and those who worked for them--enabled Lindsey's mania. Why? Because it was more important to keep the Big Machine intact (God help me, I'm using that phrase~!) than getting this dude some psychological help. Or, even locking him up for a while to give him a taste of consequences for one's behavior. And, now, when these people are no longer in any way, shape or form going to legimately make money from FM/Lindsey--the dirt flies! Carol Ann may have had demons to purge...I'll give her that. But, I still think these people think Lindsey is much more of a celebrity than he actually is. And that some hue and cry would have come about from their tell-alls and made them best-selling authors.
But, no one (but us) seems to care.
I really have no clue, personally, what the truth is. I admire Lindsey as a singer, as an artist. I like the man I've met a couple of times. He's rather sweet and funny, in a peculiar sort of way.
When I think too much of their past, and take the rumors at face value, I think they were all pretty despicable people. Every last one of them.
I hope all their demons are gone. And that they are not doing any of this stuff today. And, if I hear otherwise, I'll have to re-evaluate my thoughts. For now, in my mind, I don't know what kind of a person Lindsey is behind closed doors. But, he has three seemingly happy, content kids and I'm assuming/hoping/praying that they aren't good little actors. And, I'm going with the belief that Lindsey did get the help he needed to become a better person.

[henryscutter]

I like your reasoning, but CAH's book was released after SYW. :sorry:

yeah I know, but I thought she was trying to get it published for quite a few years ( not sure how many? ) I figured FM lawyers and the band had read many versions of it over the years. Maybe there was a rough draft of it floating around before SYW :shrug:

Either way it is fun to speculate ;)

[elle]

can people change?

certainly hope so.

we assume that people can change their lives for the better. And, frankly, many do.

"there's no redemption without... forgiveness" (Say Goodbye intro, LB)

"the power and importance of change" (Big Love intro, LB)

[iamnotafraid]

I would be very surprised if he was still choking people today.


I know this wasn't written as a joke,
but it certainly made me laugh.

I wouldn't worry too much about Mr.
Buckingham being the Boston Strangler.

Also would Stevie's, let's say airiness; preclude
her from such stories? With drugs, human sex
trafficking, fairies, pyramids, spells and past lives
already out there - what's left to write about?

Mr. Buckingham is just a flawed human being like
the rest of us.

[seekerj]

Just a thought: Lindsey is an extreme introvert. When an introvert is continually forced into dealing with extroverts, they can only take so much, the frustration builds, and then anything can happen. And they usually aren't proud of their resulting actions, but they don't know how to handle it any other way.

[holidayroad]

yeah I know, but I thought she was trying to get it published for quite a few years ( not sure how many? ) I figured FM lawyers and the band had read many versions of it over the years. Maybe there was a rough draft of it floating around before SYW :shrug:

Either way it is fun to speculate ;)

:) I really don't know how long CAH tried to get the book published. Still, yes, it is fun to speculate!

[michelej1]

I would be very surprised if he was still choking people today.

Lindsey must be deceptively strong. Ken wrote Lindsey took him in his arms and lifted him off the ground declaring, "You're worth your weight in gold." I thought, man, Lindsey has muscles I didn't imagine, sometimes strangling and at other times cradling grown men without effort.

The book is funny to me, because it reads like a novel and details make it seem more credible, but those more minute details (not the big events) are almost certainly invented. Even if you keep a very accurate diary, there's no way you would remember 35 years later that when Carol was telling you what she liked about the album and her attention immediately shifted to him like a magnet. She asked him did he want a brandy or a spiced cider and Lindsey said, "you decide for me." You know, unless you've got that Marilu Henner condition, no one has total recall like that. That stuff is neither in Ken's memory or in his journal. It's more like fictionalized detail that makes the whole book seem rich and more reliable than it probably really is.

Michele

[michelej1]

Just a thought: Lindsey is an extreme introvert. When an introvert is continually forced into dealing with extroverts, they can only take so much, the frustration builds, and then anything can happen. And they usually aren't proud of their resulting actions, but they don't know how to handle it any other way.

I don't think Lindsey is that introverted though. Stevie complained that in the early days, he was making all the music friends and she was out working and Cory complained about having to get him to the plane on time when he was talking to people who came by the dressing room. She said once he starts talking, you can't get him to stop. He just put his arm around her and zoned her out while he kept gabbing. I think he has few interests, music being the main one (and pot being another one in the old days, anyway) and if you have that in common with him, he probably is quite an extrovert. Of course, if you don't have anything in common with him, then I imagine that's when he's introverted.

Michele

[seekerj]

I don't think Lindsey is that introverted though. Stevie complained that in the early days, he was making all the music friends and she was out working and Cory complained about having to get him to the plane on time when he was talking to people who came by the dressing room. She said once he starts talking, you can't get him to stop. He just put his arm around her and zoned her out while he kept gabbing. I think he has few interests, music being the main one (and pot being another one in the old days, anyway) and if you have that in common with him, he probably is quite an extrovert. Of course, if you don't have anything in common with him, then I imagine that's when he's introverted.

Michele

I just meant his overall personality type. Being open, friendly, or even talkative does not mean that he is not an introvert. Nobody is 100% one or the other.

I'm using the Myers-Briggs definition. For extroverts, interacting with other people replenishes their energy. They get their energy from interacting with others. When they walk away, they are fully-charged. For introverts, interacting with other people drains their energy. Being with people just sucks the energy right out. They need to walk away and spend time alone to replenish their energy.

[michelej1]

I'm using the Myers-Briggs definition. For extroverts, interacting with other people replenishes their energy. They get their energy from interacting with others. When they walk away, they are fully-charged. For introverts, interacting with other people drains their energy. Being with people just sucks the energy right out. They need to walk away and spend time alone to replenish their energy.

There has been controversy because in some schools (British I think) they were keeping children from forming close friendships. When they saw them socializing with just one or two people, they broke them up and encouraged group activity instead. Parents were outraged and pointed out that some people, from childhood to adulthood, only function well one on one. They don't thrive in groups and you can't force them to.

As for Lindsey, he definitely doesn't seem comfortable being alone really. Not totally. I mean, he can close himself in his studio, but as far as living TOTALLY alone, he always seems to want someone around. I mean, even aside from Richard, CAH said that he had a couple of guys from Fritz living with them at some point. He doesn't seem to like to party like Mick, but it's like he doesn't enjoy just his own company that well either.

Michele

[elle]

As for Lindsey, he definitely doesn't seem comfortable being alone really. Not totally. I mean, he can close himself in his studio, but as far as living TOTALLY alone, he always seems to want someone around. I mean, even aside from Richard, CAH said that he had a couple of guys from Fritz living with them at some point. He doesn't seem to like to party like Mick, but it's like he doesn't enjoy just his own company that well either.

doesn't mean he's not mostly introvert. i'm an introvert (by Myers-Briggs) but i still need people and never ever in my life lived alone. :shrug:

[cliffdweller]

Lindsey must be deceptively strong. Ken wrote Lindsey took him in his arms and lifted him off the ground declaring, "You're worth your weight in gold." I thought, man, Lindsey has muscles I didn't imagine, sometimes strangling and at other times cradling grown men without effort.

The book is funny to me, because it reads like a novel and details make it seem more credible, but those more minute details (not the big events) are almost certainly invented. Even if you keep a very accurate diary, there's no way you would remember 35 years later that when Carol was telling you what she liked about the album and her attention immediately shifted to him like a magnet. She asked him did he want a brandy or a spiced cider and Lindsey said, "you decide for me." You know, unless you've got that Marilu Henner condition, no one has total recall like that. That stuff is neither in Ken's memory or in his journal. It's more like fictionalized detail that makes the whole book seem rich and more reliable than it probably really is.

Michele

Yep, agreed. There are small tidbits that you just KNOW are embellished. I was thinking to myself while reading, Ken must've kept a meticulous journal. No way. He couldn't possibly have had the forethought or time for that. You can definitely feel the negative vibe coming from Ken directed at Lindsey too. He even says that to this day he finds Lindsey extremely annoying. He's letting it all hang out! He also makes Chris look like a booze guzzling, sailor-swearing, hard-ass. I love it though. I bet Chris was a lot of fun in the studio.

[HomerMcvie]

He also makes Chris look like a booze guzzling, sailor-swearing, hard-ass. I love it though. I bet Chris was a lot of fun in the studio.

I think Chris was always "one of the guys". I wouldn't have wanted to cross her!!!:lol:

I love that pic of her and Bob Welch, smoking cigars!

[cliffdweller]

I wouldn't have wanted to cross her!!!:lol:

No way, me neither. However, I would love to go drinking with her. She is effing hilarious!

[michelej1]

doesn't mean he's not mostly introvert. i'm an introvert (by Myers-Briggs) but i still need people and never ever in my life lived alone. :shrug:

:shrug: I don't know what Lindsey is on the Myers-Briggs scale and wasn't really addressing that. Don't know how he'd answer the test questions.

Michele

[michelej1]

He also makes Chris look like a booze guzzling, sailor-swearing, hard-ass. I love it though. I bet Chris was a lot of fun in the studio.

That was a funny story he told about sitting next to Chris on the piano bench. He knew that he was invading her personal space and he realized that could be risky. But he was just drawn to do that.

Yep, agreed. There are small tidbits that you just KNOW are embellished. I was thinking to myself while reading, Ken must've kept a meticulous journal. No way. He couldn't possibly have had the forethought or time for that. You can definitely feel the negative vibe coming from Ken directed at Lindsey too. He even says that to this day he finds Lindsey extremely annoying. He's letting it all hang out!

What's funny to me about him deciding not to use Lindsey as a guest guitarist is that the choice was never up to him. He can't even get Lindsey on the phone any longer. How's he going to put him on Colbie's album??

If what he meant to say is that given Lindsey's throat crushing ways he doesn't want to work with him again -- he should say so. Rather than saying he would use him, but . . . IYD.

Michele

[Gailh]

I think Chris was always "one of the guys". I wouldn't have wanted to cross her!!!:lol:

I love that pic of her and Bob Welch, smoking cigars!

I would only cross her if I knew where the exit was and had a fast car waiting :laugh:

Gail

[HomerMcvie]

I would only cross her if I knew where the exit was and had a fast car waiting :laugh:

Gail

That's the price of her being "one of the guys". No fear! From her end anyway, not mine!:lol:

[michelej1]

I thought it interesting that when the Record Plant cooks put drugs in their cookies that everyone else gobbled them up and just thought they were very good cookies, but after a few bites Christine noticed the after taste and she didn't eat anymore.

Maybe Christine's culinary skills have made her taste buds more acute than the average person's -- well, that's actually a chicken and egg thing. If your taste buds are sensitive, then I think you take more of an interest in food and are more drawn to cooking and perfecting what you eat and what you serve to others to eat.

Michele

[cliffdweller]

Is anyone else sick of all the random tidbits about his dog? I mean, I love dogs but I'd rather hear more about the band and the recording process rather than minute details about what his dog did from day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute. Who cares?

[michelej1]

Is anyone else sick of all the random tidbits about his dog? I mean, I love dogs but I'd rather hear more about the band and the recording process rather than minute details about what his dog did from day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute. Who cares?

That was so funny. Well, I guess you gotta love a guy who loves his dog.:lol: I mean I did laugh at how the dog would jump out of the car when Ken wasn't looking or close the closet doors -- for privacy:laugh:. I really have never loved a pet like that, but I bet when you do and you feel it has been through such an important part of your life and this was before he was married and had kids. When the dog is your best friend, I bet it must have hurt like crazy to lose him.

What I thought was funny is how Ken made it sound like Lindsey wanted to be on the cover of his own album and was so jealous of Rumours that he put Herbie out of business. What a load of nonsense, when you consider that Lindsey wasn't on the cover of Tusk or Tango either. And Ken said all the men were happy to have Scooter on Tusk. He said maybe it was their way of getting back at the women who didn't like Scooter. You'd think if Rumours stuck in his craw Lindsey would have rushed to be on Tusk -- in his ballet outfit.

Michele

[cliffdweller]

You'd think if Rumours stuck in his craw Lindsey would have rushed to be on Tusk -- in his ballet outfit.

Michele

Ha-ha! In Stevie's ballet outfit no less. That would have been a great cover!

Ummm yeah, about Scooter: I do have a pet I love that much but I don't think anyone would be as interested in the little things he does as me. This is a book about FM! No one wants to hear about your dog "making yellow snow"! :laugh:

[CADreaming]

You'd think if Rumours stuck in his craw Lindsey would have rushed to be on Tusk -- in his ballet outfit.

Michele

He didn't have the balls... :lol: :wavey:

[sodascouts]

....and we have a winner! lol!

[jbrownsjr]

He didn't have the balls... :lol: :wavey:

LOL!! You are my everything sometimes!!!! :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

I love the Mirage cover. All 3 look amazing on it.

[elle]

:shrug: I don't know what Lindsey is on the Myers-Briggs scale and wasn't really addressing that. Don't know how he'd answer the test questions.

no idea but i'd imagine he's taken all these different tests... the man talks about Rorschach inkblots when discussing the meaning of his songs. :shrug:

one thing i'd be willing to bet on is that he comes out as highly dominant if using DISC:

High "D" people = demanding, forceful, egocentric, strong willed, driving, determined, ambitious, aggressive, and pioneering.

[CADreaming]

....and we have a winner! lol!

:thumbsup:

LOL!! You are my everything sometimes!!!! :laugh:

:lol::xoxo:

[elle]

:thumbsup:

:lol::xoxo:

:wavey: seeing this talk putting together lindsey, balls, and ballet outfits i keep waiting for someone else to jump in but nothing's happening :lol:

[CADreaming]

:wavey: seeing this talk putting together lindsey, balls, and ballet outfits i keep waiting for someone else to jump in but nothing's happening :lol:

I know! It's certainly a spicy topic! :laugh:

[michelej1]

Tutu works better.

Michele

[elle]

I know! It's certainly a spicy topic! :laugh:

Tutu works better.


well, since that would be Tusk-era, Lindsey in - or out - of anything would be extremely hot. those roomy tusk suits were actually hiding too much of him. luckily we can still see some of those purple shirt / tight jeans Tusk-recording clips.:laugh:

[cliffdweller]

Not to change the topic too radically (because who doesn't like to discuss Lindsey in ballet tights?? :laugh:) but did anyone else pick up on Ken's assessment of Stevie back then? He says a few times how sweet and funny she used to be and how she would radically change after Rumours. He also says that she quickly became "friends" with people who would handle her affairs for her and she would soon become completely unavailable and unreachable. I get the last part, she enters the realm of superstardom and now has handlers who deal with her day-to-day affairs and appointments, but the first part about how she used to be so great and then implying that now she's not, or, back then after Rumours she completely changed is kind of sad to read. Fame really gets its grip on you I guess, not to mention the drugging and drinking.

[elle]

Not to change the topic too radically (because who doesn't like to discuss Lindsey in ballet tights?? :laugh:) but did anyone else pick up on Ken's assessment of Stevie back then? He says a few times how sweet and funny she used to be and how she would radically change after Rumours. He also says that she quickly became "friends" with people who would handle her affairs for her and she would soon become completely unavailable and unreachable. I get the last part, she enters the realm of superstardom and now has handlers who deal with her day-to-day affairs and appointments, but the first part about how she used to be so great and then implying that now she's not, or, back then after Rumours she completely changed is kind of sad to read. Fame really gets its grip on you I guess, not to mention the drugging and drinking.

i don't know. while some of this might make sense (fame + drugs definitely amount to a brutal combination), what clearly comes through in the book is that Ken seems to be awfully pi**ed at all the macsters these days. he's been consistently complaining how they cut him out of their current lives.

so i tend to enjoy and believe many tidbits and facts he lists but his characterizations of what *he* thinks of mac members as people i would take with a huge grain of salt.:shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

Not to change the topic too radically (because who doesn't like to discuss Lindsey in ballet tights?? :laugh:) but did anyone else pick up on Ken's assessment of Stevie back then? He says a few times how sweet and funny she used to be and how she would radically change after Rumours. He also says that she quickly became "friends" with people who would handle her affairs for her and she would soon become completely unavailable and unreachable. I get the last part, she enters the realm of superstardom and now has handlers who deal with her day-to-day affairs and appointments, but the first part about how she used to be so great and then implying that now she's not, or, back then after Rumours she completely changed is kind of sad to read. Fame really gets its grip on you I guess, not to mention the drugging and drinking.

I went to the book signing here in Los Angeles. There was a Q and A. I asked him what it was like producing Tusk and Mirage compared to Rumours.

Part of his response was that Stevie would often threaten to quit when she didn't get her way adding more to the drama. He also commented on how the waste of money on luxury was sickening.

[CADreaming]

Not to change the topic too radically (because who doesn't like to discuss Lindsey in ballet tights?? :laugh:) but did anyone else pick up on Ken's assessment of Stevie back then? He says a few times how sweet and funny she used to be and how she would radically change after Rumours. He also says that she quickly became "friends" with people who would handle her affairs for her and she would soon become completely unavailable and unreachable. I get the last part, she enters the realm of superstardom and now has handlers who deal with her day-to-day affairs and appointments, but the first part about how she used to be so great and then implying that now she's not, or, back then after Rumours she completely changed is kind of sad to read. Fame really gets its grip on you I guess, not to mention the drugging and drinking.

I'm sure that's true to an extent, but no one is just one way all the time. There are still just as many people who are close - or know Stevie now - that say she's a sweet, caring, funny person. And none of those people had to say that. I believe they are being genuine. Maybe there's a reason she wasn't sweet & funny to Ken after Rumours...

Waddy described Stevie as "innocent" in the BN days. She hadn't learned about the harsh realities of the business side of music. Fame & money attracts leeches and the realization that you can't trust even the people you were once close to makes a person more cynical and skeptical. If you are signing people's paychecks then you are always aware of why they are there, regardless of how much they say they care or like or love you.

I'll have to read his book for myself, but these comments so far make it sound like he's grinding an axe a little.

[cliffdweller]

I went to the book signing here in Los Angeles. There was a Q and A. I asked him what it was like producing Tusk and Mirage compared to Rumours.

Part of his response was that Stevie would often threaten to quit when she didn't get her way adding more to the drama.

Wow, that's the first I've heard of this! You always hear from Stevie that she was the peacemaker and always the one trying to hold FM together throughout the drama. This tells quite a different story. But then again, she threatened to quit when Silver Springs didn't make it on Rumours so maybe she was always a bit of a drama queen, fame or no fame!

[cliffdweller]

I'll have to read his book for myself, but these comments so far make it sound like he's grinding an axe a little.

I don't know if he's grinding an axe so much as just not holding back on his critical opinions. In other words, I don't necessarily think he's trying to be vindictive, he's just not mincing words and not censoring himself in any way (even about his paramours-which really, who cares?). And I really think he never really liked Lindsey. He doesn't have much good to say about him and talks about how annoying he is to this day.

[jbrownsjr]

I don't know if he's grinding an axe so much as just not holding back on his critical opinions. In other words, I don't necessarily think he's trying to be vindictive, he's just not mincing words and not censoring himself in any way (even about his paramours-which really, who cares?). And I really think he never really liked Lindsey. He doesn't have much good to say about him and talks about how annoying he is to this day.

He mentioned to me as I was passing that Lindsey was very fond of Christine and liked her very much despite what you read in SYW interviews regarding her departure. But yeah I agree with your accessment regarding Ken. He's just not really holding back...

[Christopher]

Not to change the topic too radically (because who doesn't like to discuss Lindsey in ballet tights?? :laugh:) but did anyone else pick up on Ken's assessment of Stevie back then? He says a few times how sweet and funny she used to be and how she would radically change after Rumours. He also says that she quickly became "friends" with people who would handle her affairs for her and she would soon become completely unavailable and unreachable.

It seems that it would be obvious that Stevie would become more inaccessible & protected by her inner circle, assistants etc., after the stratosphere success of Rumours! She became a hot commodity, everyone wanted a piece of her whether professional or personal. Ken's assessment of Stevie's demeanor comes across radically & personally over sensitive. :rolleyes: There are many accounts of Stevie being very generous during the height of her fame with FM & her solo career, to the point of being taken advantage of.

I went to the book signing here in Los Angeles. There was a Q and A. I asked him what it was like producing Tusk and Mirage compared to Rumours.

Part of his response was that Stevie would often threaten to quit when she didn't get her way adding more to the drama. He also commented on how the waste of money on luxury was sickening.

Its well documented that Stevie threatened to quit in disgust when she found out the boys (Mick, John & Lindsey) decided to title the album "Tusk"! Big deal! Obviously she was being dramatic and trying to get her point of view across anyway she could, that's her right of being 1/5 of a supposed democracy in this band :rolleyes: When we all know they treated Stevie as little sister until she finally wielded her power in the band after Bella Donna became a 3 million selling record in 1981/82. And as far as the waste of money on luxury being sickening to Ken!? That's funny, because he sure reaped the rewards of that luxury & I'm sure he was enjoying it along with the rest of the band while it was happening.

i don't know. while some of this might make sense (fame + drugs definitely amount to a brutal combination), what clearly comes through in the book is that Ken seems to be awfully pi**ed at all the macsters these days. he's been consistently complaining how they cut him out of their current lives.

Again, I think Ken is being a little over sensitive & is showing his thin skin. He hasn't worked with the band professionally in 30 years! 30 flippin years! In the meantime, after "Mirage" the band splintered into several different directions and "Mirage" was the beginning of each band member having their own manager & representation. Fleetwood Mac was no longer functioning the same as they had from 75' thru 80'. There was a complete sea change during and after "Mirage"!

[cliffdweller]

And as far as the waste of money on luxury being sickening to Ken!? That's funny, because he sure reaped the rewards of that luxury & I'm sure he was enjoying it along with the rest of the band while it was happening.

This is definitely true. He talks about "partaking" with them during the making of Rumours and he definitely reaped in the cash working with them. I think he's revising history a bit when he talks about indulgences. They were ALL indulging!

[michelej1]

Waddy described Stevie as "innocent" in the BN days. She hadn't learned about the harsh realities of the business side of music. Fame & money attracts leeches and the realization that you can't trust even the people you were once close to makes a person more cynical and skeptical.



She definitely thinks people have taken advantage of her (like stealing her masters).

And it's perfectly true that the Mac may not have cut everyone out of their lives. Maybe it was people whom they felt betrayed them, for whatever reason. Other than his flip-flopping between girlfriends (which is quite normal for a young, single guy), we don't read about any of Ken's negative qualities in the book. He's the writer and I wouldn't expect it. But I'm sure if JC wrote the book, we might get an interesting perspective on Ken that might not be 100% true, but it could explain why no one is talking to him.

As for the drugs changing people, Stevie's admitted that drugs make you not care. She feels that if she hadn't been on drugs, she would have gotten FM back together sooner, not just because she would have been more physically able and coherent, but because her emotional focus would have been different.

Michele

[michelej1]

This is definitely true. He talks about "partaking" with them during the making of Rumours and he definitely reaped in the cash working with them. I think he's revising history a bit when he talks about indulgences. They were ALL indulging!

What about when they took him out and bought that $1600 bottle of wine? He knew that having a party for him was just an excuse for them to party themselves, but he was happy to drink the wine. He enjoyed the indulgences on a "trickle down" basis. The planes, the power, the paychecks. I bet it got 100 times worse during Tusk. I mean, maybe it disgusted him to have pianos airlifted into hotel rooms, but I bet there were still lots of luxuries that he liked.

Michele

[michelej1]

He mentioned to me as I was passing that Lindsey was very fond of Christine and liked her very much despite what you read in SYW interviews regarding her departure.

Oh, I know Lindsey loved Christine. Those SYW comments were not from a guy who felt neutral or happy about her exit. He was upset and felt hurt, although he even acknowledged that she had the right to leave, as he had in 1987. That's what he said, but that's not how he felt. He spends half the time in The Dance video gazing at her across the stage. He may not have been in the rhythm section, but he played off of her like John did.

I liked it in the book when Ken explained how Christine did YMLF by herself, which is one of the first songs she did without Lindsey tweaking and when Lindsey got back to the studio and heard it, he was proud of her. Even on stage you can see what great pleasure he takes in YMLF.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Oh, I know Lindsey loved Christine. Those SYW comments were not from a guy who felt neutral or happy about her exit. He was upset and felt hurt, although he even acknowledged that she had the right to leave, as he had in 1987. That's what he said, but that's not how he felt. He spends half the time in The Dance video gazing at her across the stage. He may not have been in the rhythm section, but he played off of her like John did.

I liked it in the book when Ken explained how Christine did YMLF by herself, which is one of the first songs she did without Lindsey tweaking and when Lindsey got back to the studio and heard it, he was proud of her. Even on stage you can see what great pleasure he takes in YMLF.

Michele

Yeah I really loved this part too. The McVie/Buchingham saga/music is fascinating to me. I loved that she did YMLF on her own as well. I mean he is not on WHY either :lol:

[elle]

these comments so far make it sound like he's grinding an axe a little.

I don't know if he's grinding an axe so much as just not holding back on his critical opinions. In other words, I don't necessarily think he's trying to be vindictive, he's just not mincing words and not censoring himself in any way (even about his paramours-which really, who cares?). And I really think he never really liked Lindsey. He doesn't have much good to say about him and talks about how annoying he is to this day.

oh he's grinding an axe, and not just a little. there's no doubt about it, if you read the book. and his editor didn't do him any favors... i'd hate to come across as petty as he does. :eek:

if he's as cut out of current life of FM-members and he can't get any of them on the phone, then how does he know how these people behave to this day? :laugh:

[MikeInNV]

if he's as cut out of current life of FM-members and he can't get any of them on the phone, then how does he know how these people behave to this day? :laugh:

I haven't had time to start the book yet. Has he really been cut off by all the members? If so, I think it says more about him than it does about them.

[fairydust75]

Maybe she threated to quit because they didn't take her seriously. I'm sure she grew tired of this, especially from Lindsey. She insulated herself to protect and make a litte world within a world inside "the bubble".

"..well they love her, but still their the most cruel..."

[cliffdweller]

and his editor didn't do him any favors

Oh definitely. This book is poorly edited and poorly written without a doubt. Some of it is just downright ridiculous! Like the stories about how much he got laid. Give me a break :rolleyes:

[poetinmyheart]

Oh definitely. This book is poorly edited and poorly written without a doubt. Some of it is just downright ridiculous! Like the stories about how much he got laid. Give me a break :rolleyes:

Hahaha :laugh:

[michelej1]

Oh definitely. This book is poorly edited and poorly written without a doubt. Some of it is just downright ridiculous! Like the stories about how much he got laid. Give me a break :rolleyes:

I thought it was funny when he was talked through the crabs. Go to the doctor, get this specific prescription, wash twice . . . If my new date knew THAT much about crabs, it would make me a little nervous.

Michele

[cliffdweller]

I thought it was funny when he was talked through the crabs. Go to the doctor, get this specific prescription, wash twice . . . If my new date knew THAT much about crabs, it would make me a little nervous.

Michele

Uh yeah, and she was totally unphased and was still willing to sleep with him. The 70's were a wild time! :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

Uh yeah, and she was totally unphased and was still willing to sleep with him. The 70's were a wild time! :laugh:

Haha!!! You guys are killin me .... :lol::lol:

[Villavic]

I don't think anyone should really comment until reading the book.
.......
.......
The book is very interesting. I'm enjoying as it is NOT a gossip.

I recommend it to ANY fan.

Based on this quote I finally can comment about the book, and reviving this thread :) .

I find it very very interesting, and far more interesting that Carol Ann's (a book that I could never finish).

Some pages are too (musically) technical, more interesting for musicians, but worth it anyway. What I find curious, is how detailed is, and in terms of time. I mean he can tell exactly what day of january 1976 the girls were playing with their dogs, how early he woke up, when in february John fought with Chris, etc.

Mick tells similar episodes in his book but does not mention exact dates and hours, and it is not that detailed (like restaurant names and other places), except for August 7, 1987 ;)

Unless he kept a journal, something hard to believe, it's unbelievable how can he recalls all that data.

[michelej1]

Some pages are too (musically) technical, more interesting for musicians, but worth it anyway. What I find curious, is how detailed is, and in terms of time. I mean he can tell exactly what day of january 1976 the girls were playing with their dogs, how early he woke up, when in february John fought with Chris, etc.

I know nothing about music and I was amazed at how interesting he made it even for a layperson. I could understand the engineering process a little by the way he described it and I didn't think that would happen.

Unless he kept a journal, something hard to believe, it's unbelievable how can he recalls all that data.

I'm sure he did keep notes, especially about studio events, what tracks they worked on from day to day, etc. But yes I think some of the other details are a incredible. They give the book a nice air of authenticity and it's almost like you're reading a novel, but I don't take them literally.

Michele

[lovethemac1]

Based on this quote I finally can comment about the book, and reviving this thread :) .



Unless he kept a journal, something hard to believe, it's unbelievable how can he recalls all that data.

He definitely commented that he kept a journal during the time he worked with them, and there were photos of the notes he made in the book too. Along with dates. I'm not a technical music person, but I keep fairly indepth notes about my work, so I could see why they would need to keep track of all the work they were doing. And if they were as stoned as they said they were alot of the time, then you'd really need to look back on those notes. Something tells me that Mick would NOT keep notes, call me crazy, but that's my guess..............:shrug:

[Wdm6789]

Has anyone read Carol Ann Harris's book? I read Mick's bio from 1990, I'm considering getting Carol's book. Anyone read it already? Thoughts? Reviews?

[louielouie2000]

Has anyone read Carol Ann Harris's book? I read Mick's bio from 1990, I'm considering getting Carol's book. Anyone read it already? Thoughts? Reviews?

There have been several threads on Carol Ann's book over the years, this being the largest:

http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=36386&highlight=storms

The book is highly controversial to say the least, but I still feel it's a worthy read for the dedicated Mac fan.

[welcomechris]

I'd Read It

I Think Carol Ann "sprinkled" some lies here and there. But it is worth the book. it is pretty good

[fairydust75]

I'd Read It

I Think Carol Ann "sprinkled" some lies here and there. But it is worth the book. it is pretty good

It won't hurt, humorous! But.....not so kind to Lindsey.

[teedeerocks]

Oh, I know Lindsey loved Christine. Those SYW comments were not from a guy who felt neutral or happy about her exit. He was upset and felt hurt, although he even acknowledged that she had the right to leave, as he had in 1987. That's what he said, but that's not how he felt. He spends half the time in The Dance video gazing at her across the stage. He may not have been in the rhythm section, but he played off of her like John did.

I liked it in the book when Ken explained how Christine did YMLF by herself, which is one of the first songs she did without Lindsey tweaking and when Lindsey got back to the studio and heard it, he was proud of her. Even on stage you can see what great pleasure he takes in YMLF.

Michele

OMG! I was thinking the same thing! In The Dance during My Little Demon Lindsey was trying to look over at Chris but Stevie kept on trying to get in his way by making faces and banging her tambourine in his face but b/c he is so much taller than her he just looked right over her.The next shot of her shows her very straight faced and quite annoyed:mad:-too f....king funny:laugh:It seems our girl does NOT like being ignored!I bet Lind's got a real earful of crap after the show...

[michelej1]

OMG! I was thinking the same thing! In The Dance during My Little Demon Lindsey was trying to look over at Chris but Stevie kept on trying to get in his way by making faces and banging her tambourine in his face but b/c he is so much taller than her he just looked right over her.The next shot of her shows her very straight faced and quite annoyed:mad:-too f....king funny:laugh:It seems our girl does NOT like being ignored!I bet Lind's got a real earful of crap after the show...

Generally, when Lindsey is singing he is looking at Stevie or into the audience and when he is standing away from his mic, he is looking at Christine. That's always been true, before the Dance taping and after it. I'm not sure how much of her piano he can hear through his floor monitor, but I think looking at Christine is part of his guitar playing, in a way.

Michele

[ChickenStu]

I read this earlier this year. It was OK but it's one of those books where you can tell the author wants it to be a movie...

[louielouie2000]

I read this earlier this year. It was OK but it's one of those books where you can tell the author wants it to be a movie...

See? I definitely got that impression from Carol Ann's book, but not Ken's. Ken's book was way more technical than anyone interested in making a movie would care about. Whereas Carol Ann's book was solely about heightened personal drama; I still feel that Ken's book was more about the logistics of making a hit record.

[Deeshere]

Generally, when Lindsey is singing he is looking at Stevie or into the audience and when he is standing away from his mic, he is looking at Christine. That's always been true, before the Dance taping and after it. I'm not sure how much of her piano he can hear through his floor monitor, but I think looking at Christine is part of his guitar playing, in a way.

Michele

I agree with you Michele. I also think it maybe part of his playing style, because Stevie has said in the past that before they started to use the earphones they use speakers that would just blast the music back onto the stage and it was very hard to hear.

Also, something I haven't seen said before is; I think Bleed to Love her is about Stevie (I know I'm in the minority here) and I don't think Lindsey would have wanted to look at Stevie when he was singing the lyrics to that particular song (if you notice he almost made a point of NOT looking at Stevie), so instead he sang the song to Christine.

And as far as books go, Carol Ann's book was just drama, drama, drama. Ken's book was pretty technical and there aren't very many salacious stories about the band and all the drama going on around him at the time. It's almost like the band never argued with each other while they were in the studio (and we know that's not true). I interviews Ken's said that the band members (especially Stevie and Lindsey) argued almost daily. And an interesting note for me is when Ken said that at one point Christine was going to help him and give him stories for the book, but then pulled back and said she couldn't do it. He said he later found out that Lindsey was thinking about writing his own book and told the band members not to help Ken out.

I really hope Lindsey does write an autobiography because I would love to read it. He's been meligned a lot over the years (I'm sure a lot of it was earned) and I can see him wanting the public to understand his side of the story too.

I am looking forward to Ken's book about Tusk, I have a feeling he maybe willing to tell a bit more about what was going on behind the scenes in that book, because he's going to want to try and sell more books than he last time.

[michelej1]

I agree with you Michele. I also think it maybe part of his playing style,

I think it's part of his playing style with Christine. He doesn't do the same thing with Brett, although there are definitely times when he and Brett make eye contact. And what he does with Christine was completely absent when Dan Garfield was his keyboardist that one tour.

Michele

[Wdm6789]

Anyone else read whatever articles that said Lindsey was being a bitch about Christine coming back he said "she can't just come and go" or something like that. He quit the band on pretty bad terms back in 87-88 and he was welcomed back ten years later and he's going to be the butt hurt one about Christine coming back. Or maybe it has something to do with Christine retiring not long after Lindsey came back, but they did do the dance tour before Christine left.

[Deeshere]

I think it's part of his playing style with Christine. He doesn't do the same thing with Brett, although there are definitely times when he and Brett make eye contact. And what he does with Christine was completely absent when Dan Garfield was his keyboardist that one tour.

Michele

Well I don't think Brett or Dan are as easy on the eyes as Christine is..:D
But again, I agree with you....Even back in 75 he would turn to the right and plays towards the keyboards, so appears to be just his style of playing.

[lovethemac1]

See? I definitely got that impression from Carol Ann's book, but not Ken's. Ken's book was way more technical than anyone interested in making a movie would care about. Whereas Carol Ann's book was solely about heightened personal drama; I still feel that Ken's book was more about the logistics of making a hit record.

I agree with you 100% about the difference between these books. And both were very interesting and great reads.