New producers for Stevie? Is she too difficult?

[mikephxaz]

The topic of potential producers for Stevie was brought up in another thread. My question is whether it's Rick Ruben or Don Was 0r Jimmy Iovine....is Stevie considered to difficult to produce? Does she take to long to record in the studio? Does she not take enough risks? Is her voice considered to be too limited? For some reason she seems to be unable to produce an entire album with one single producer except for IYD with Dave. I enjoyed her music with Dave. Someone mentioned Rick Rubin. Ricks work with Johnny Cash and Jack Blacks work with Loretta Lynn was amazing. I wish Stevie would consider challenging herself even more. Really pushing the edge.

[Jondalar]

The topic of potential producers for Stevie was brought up in another thread. My question is whether it's Rick Ruben or Don Was 0r Jimmy Iovine....is Stevie considered to difficult to produce? Does she take to long to record in the studio? Does she not take enough risks? Is her voice considered to be too limited? For some reason she seems to be unable to produce an entire album with one single producer except for IYD with Dave. I enjoyed her music with Dave. Someone mentioned Rick Rubin. Ricks work with Johnny Cash and Jack Blacks work with Loretta Lynn was amazing. I wish Stevie would consider challenging herself even more. Really pushing the edge.

Well, this is an overdue thread. The fact is in the beginning Stevie was pliable and she listened to Jimmy and Lindsey and she became a huge star. The pressure of success and probably about a thousands pounds of coke later, Stevie became full of herself and her career tanked. Everytime Stevie thinks she has the upper hand, she flops like a hot potato. She needs to stay humble and listen to those who have her best interest at heart.

P.S. She listened to Dave without cynicism. She listens to Lindsey like she wants to **** a 9 pound brick out of her asssss.

[hestergail]

P.S. She listened to Dave without cynicism. She listens to Lindsey like she wants to **** a 9 pound brick out of her asssss.[/QUOTE]



AMEN!!!!!!! Love her but AMEN :xoxo:

[HejiraNYC]

Good grief. Nobody here knows what Stevie is like in the studio, so why does everyone automatically assume the worst? Finding the right producer is kind of like finding the right lover. You're going to try out some songs, some of them will work out, but sometimes the chemistry is just not there in the end. I don't begrudge Stevie for wanting to branch out and try different producers. At least we know that, at the end of the day, she has worked as hard as possible to hold true to her vision of how her music should sound, even if it means switching up producers or, in the case of "Bombay Sapphires," producing it herself. The fact is, she has been around the block and she knows what works and what doesn't work. She has standards. And if that makes her a bitch, then she's a bitch: Being In Total Control of Herself.

[On Ice]

I would think that there were definite low points when Stevie would not have been pleasant to be around which would make it difficult for a producer to get the best out of her. But I look at it like her tours, when she's on she is unbeatable and puts on a dynamite show. When she's off, and let's face it, she's been off a lot through the years, her best music just is not going to come out. Street Angel is a good example of this, many think the album is atrocious(I like it) and the tour one of her best. She was on fire on the tour and had she had the same fire in the studio (although, listen to the '92 Mirror Mirror for what "maybe" could've been). So, I think it comes down to her being on or off, and knowing the difference, which I would speculate has been really difficult for her to accept. We fans have cut her tons of slack through the years, sat through some pretty bad shows, listened to some 1/2 hearted writing and singing, but we never lost our belief in her because we new her raw talent was there.

[APerfectLie]

I think the main reason she is difficult to produce is because she ****s all of her producers XD

[Jondalar]

I think the main reason she is difficult to produce is because she ****s all of her producers XD

well that used to be called "job security"

[Macfanforever]

Oops Wow.Hahahah.LOL.As I watch some of those behind the scenes videos .I do see as all of us have seen is friction between her and others.I guess its like any other job.We sometimes have some friction between other co-workers.Or to much perfection on recording the music.The general public probably wont catch any defects and bloopers in the recordings.Us fans probably will.

[Fireflies]

i only wish she would have stuck it out with dallas austin. out of everything that could leak, i hope that her sessions with him surface.

[johnnystorms]

i only wish she would have stuck it out with dallas austin. out of everything that could leak, i hope that her sessions with him surface.

me too! that is the MOST intriguing collaboration of her career that i have YET to hear! "Un-pretty" has a definite Stevie vibe , with T-Boz's raspy singing. i REALLY wish those recordings would surface. i was actually visiting a friend in ATL when the news came out she was there recording with him.

[johnnystorms]

the stuff she produced for "X-tina" was amazing! i'd LOOOOOVE for Stevie to work with a female producer. it would be a fascinating, radical departure for her. and Sheryl Crow doesn't count....... i think Sheryl was too starstruck to bring out the best in Stevie. the John Shanks songs on TISL were much better. i think LP would be an incredible collaboration.

[Macfanforever]

With all the years of recording Maybe Stevie herself can take a crack by producing herself without help.She dont have fight with anybody.

[On Ice]

With all the years of recording Maybe Stevie herself can take a crack by producing herself without help.She dont have fight with anybody.

Good point, her work on Bombay isn't too shabby if I do say so myself. Very good song and a highlight of Trouble in ShangriLa.

[cliffdweller]

and Sheryl Crow doesn't count....... i think Sheryl was too starstruck to bring out the best in Stevie.

I don't think she was starstruck, they were friends at this point. I think if anything, Sheryl made Stevie sound like Sheryl Crow. Nothing innovative was done, but it wasn't bad either. I think I'm one of the few who liked what Sheryl did to Stevie's music, but then again, I like the guitars up front and center in the mix and Sheryl does that a lot.

[Dodfather]

Jack Blacks work with Loretta Lynn was amazing. .

Sorry but I have to point out that this was Jack White.

I'd love Stevie to either self-produce more or work with Don Was.

[Sanne2]

[QUOTE=Dodfather;1042504]Sorry but I have to point out that this was Jack White.
/QUOTE]

I sort of like the idea of Jack Black as a producer for Stevie

[Dodfather]

[QUOTE=Dodfather;1042504]Sorry but I have to point out that this was Jack White.
/QUOTE]

I sort of like the idea of Jack Black as a producer for Stevie

I love the idea! Of course they would then make "The greatest *****ng song in the world!"

[snicksfan85]

I think there's a difference between difficult and having an opinion and giving input. Difficult is demanding that a whole 12 string section is brought in, days are spent getting it "right" (according to the artist), and then demanding it gets scrapped from the final mix because the artist is no longer "feeling it". Or throwing temper tantrums. Or treating everyone like they are below you. Or never showing up when you are actually needed. (My run in with Shanks leads me to believe he's difficult to work with, by the way.)

Some of her more recent choices in producers and engineers look like they come from more of a commercial viability stand point. You don't pick some of the busiest pop engineers/producers and wait around just to have them mix a few songs for nothing. I think this last album was more on her terms than any of her other albums because she was in that type of "I'm making this for me" mentality and Dave set the ambiance for recording she wanted and gave her a comfortably controlled environment to work.

I think she's more "present" than some artists in the studio are and wants her input listened to and acknowledged. She's not technical but she has an idea as to what it should sound like. But I don't see her being a perfectionist. And I don't see her walking in with a ProTools session with 98 tracks of self made percussion and informing the engineer that they will be using it all. But she does like to take her time and for some producers (who in turn work with certain engineers that have the same problem) that are booked up months in advance with projects or like to run through things quickly and get on to the next project, that doesn't work well.

You have to remember these are long hours of different personalities trapped in a windowless box listening to things 1000x and sometimes nitpicking things to death and sometimes "outsiders" looking over shoulders, like a label person making sure you've got at least one single or musicians' union rep ensuring you're not going over workable time. Even really laid back, easy going people can have bad studio days.

[cliffdweller]

Seems to me, no one is harder on a producer/engineer than Lindsey Buckingham. At least Stevie never strangled anyone! :laugh:

[PenguinHead]

With all the years of recording Maybe Stevie herself can take a crack by producing herself without help.She dont have fight with anybody.

Stevie absolutely needs a producer! She is not like Lindsey or other artists that are capable of self-producing. She doesn't have the technical skills, nor the ambition to attempt that.

I think Dave Stewart worked well with her because he respected her talent and understood her strengths and weaknesses. Plus, Dave appears to be a fun, earnest easy-going, light-hearted guy. All those elements worked to her favor.

Some of the other producers she has worked with were not that forgiving or compassionate, and they had a strained camaraderie.

[Jondalar]

Stevie absolutely needs a producer! She is not like Lindsey or other artists that are capable of self-producing. She doesn't have the technical skills, nor the ambition to attempt that.

I think Dave Stewart worked well with her because he respected her talent and understood her strengths and weaknesses. Plus, Dave appears to be a fun, earnest easy-going, light-hearted guy. All those elements worked to her favor.

Some of the other producers she has worked with were not that forgiving or compassionate, and they had a strained camaraderie.

I'm sorry but I think this post is BS. It think the problem was Stevie respecting their talent. She resisted because she didn't want to be known as a muse. Her best hits, such as Gypsy, Dreams.... have her morphing into many things for her producers. When left to her own hand, Stevie has flopped Lets's be honest.

[Macfanforever]

Stevie absolutely needs a producer! She is not like Lindsey or other artists that are capable of self-producing. She doesn't have the technical skills, nor the ambition to attempt that.

I think Dave Stewart worked well with her because he respected her talent and understood her strengths and weaknesses. Plus, Dave appears to be a fun, earnest easy-going, light-hearted guy. All those elements worked to her favor.

Some of the other producers she has worked with were not that forgiving or compassionate, and they had a strained camaraderie.

Yes your right.With todays digital age.She will be totally lost.As we know she is not a fan of computers and techie stuff.With Dave she felt comfortable in the studio also at her house.

[mikephxaz]

Stevie absolutely needs a producer! She is not like Lindsey or other artists that are capable of self-producing. She doesn't have the technical skills, nor the ambition to attempt that.

I think Dave Stewart worked well with her because he respected her talent and understood her strengths and weaknesses. Plus, Dave appears to be a fun, earnest easy-going, light-hearted guy. All those elements worked to her favor.

Some of the other producers she has worked with were not that forgiving or compassionate, and they had a strained camaraderie.

I completely agree. I know of very few artist who NEEDS a producer more than Stevie. I also believe that Stevie had a meeting of the minds(or souls) with Dave I think he appealed to Stevie's ego. I think, like Sheryl, he baby'd Stevie. One day I'd love to see her put in a recording studio with the likes of jack white or Rick Ruben or Dave Was and see what they produce.

[The Catdancer]

Good grief. Nobody here knows what Stevie is like in the studio, so why does everyone automatically assume the worst? Finding the right producer is kind of like finding the right lover. You're going to try out some songs, some of them will work out, but sometimes the chemistry is just not there in the end. I don't begrudge Stevie for wanting to branch out and try different producers. At least we know that, at the end of the day, she has worked as hard as possible to hold true to her vision of how her music should sound, even if it means switching up producers or, in the case of "Bombay Sapphires," producing it herself. The fact is, she has been around the block and she knows what works and what doesn't work. She has standards. And if that makes her a bitch, then she's a bitch: Being In Total Control of Herself.

Love this post :)

[mikephxaz]

Good grief. Nobody here knows what Stevie is like in the studio, so why does everyone automatically assume the worst? Finding the right producer is kind of like finding the right lover. You're going to try out some songs, some of them will work out, but sometimes the chemistry is just not there in the end. I don't begrudge Stevie for wanting to branch out and try different producers. At least we know that, at the end of the day, she has worked as hard as possible to hold true to her vision of how her music should sound, even if it means switching up producers or, in the case of "Bombay Sapphires," producing it herself. The fact is, she has been around the block and she knows what works and what doesn't work. She has standards. And if that makes her a bitch, then she's a bitch: Being In Total Control of Herself.

No one assumes to know exactly what she's like in the studio. We just take " pieces" of our knowledge or history with Stevie and discuss points. I'm a designer and home builder and I can promise you that I can be "difficult" to work with but I still create really beautiful homes. I was just inquiring if ledges perceive that Stevie only works with a@@ kissers (jk) in the studio on the last four or five solo albums because she doesn't want her music to be altered a lot. I know she's true to herself and btw but being difficult for one's art doesn't make someone a bitch. That's a logic jump you're taking not me:thumbsup:

[PenguinHead]

I'm sorry but I think this post is BS. It think the problem was Stevie respecting their talent. She resisted because she didn't want to be known as a muse. Her best hits, such as Gypsy, Dreams.... have her morphing into many things for her producers. When left to her own hand, Stevie has flopped Lets's be honest.

I'll ignore the BS comment. But I have deciphered a salient point that you make -- that perhaps is that Stevie is probably very stubborn when it comes to working with her producers. It's clearly evident in the Destiny Rules documentary, in the scene where Lindsey questioned her on the changing tenses in her lyric. He had a very valid point, but Stevie knocked it down.

Depsite (0r because of) sleeping with several of her producers, they have been contentious relationships...even with ones she hasn't bedded. Despite that, Stevie herself has given credit to some of them for bringing out the best in her, but I'm sure it wasn't easy for them.

David Steward is an anomaly. Never has she been so outspokenly elated over working with a particular producer. It seems they have a special chemistry between them that resulted in her best work in long time. No confrontations. No drama. That is highly unusual!

[Johnny Stew]

I'm a little confused... where have we gotten the notion that Stevie is "difficult" or that her relationship with her producers has been contentious? From all accounts, the only producer she ever really clashed with, was Glynn Johns.

Sure, her and Jimmy parted ways at the height of her craziness, but then they immediately worked together again when he asked her to record "Silent Night" just a couple of years later. They've also remained close friends. If she were that problematic in the studio, would he have wanted to work with her again so quickly?

It would seem there were no problems with Sheryl Crow, Rick Nowels, Keith Olsen, Mike Campbell, John Shanks and Thom Panunzio. And any issues with Rupert Hine seemed to arise only after the album was recorded, and for personal reasons.

What we saw in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, was an example of the complicated relationship between Stevie and Lindsey. I highly doubt it's indicative of her relationships with other producers. Besides, as HejiraNYC said, her having an opinion on the way her songs are completed, doesn't make her "difficult."

As for multiple producers... Cher once said that it's important to find the right producer for the right song. She said that if one producer doesn't "get" a particular song, she finds a producer who does. Based on some of the comments Stevie has made regarding the process, it seems she has a similar approach.

[Christopher]

I'm a little confused... where have we gotten the notion that Stevie is "difficult" or that her relationship with her producers has been contentious? From all accounts, the only producer she ever really clashed with, was Glynn Johns.

Sure, her and Jimmy parted ways at the height of her craziness, but then they immediately worked together again when he asked her to record "Silent Night" just a couple of years later. They've also remained close friends. If she were that problematic in the studio, would he have wanted to work with her again so quickly?

It would seem there were no problems with Sheryl Crow, Rick Nowels, Keith Olsen, Mike Campbell, John Shanks and Thom Panunzio. And any issues with Rupert Hine seemed to arise only after the album was recorded, and for personal reasons.

What we saw in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, was an example of the complicated relationship between Stevie and Lindsey. I highly doubt it's indicative of her relationships with other producers. Besides, as HejiraNYC said, her having an opinion on the way her songs are completed, doesn't make her "difficult."

As for multiple producers... Cher once said that it's important to find the right producer for the right song. She said that if one producer doesn't "get" a particular song, she finds a producer who does. Based on some of the comments Stevie has made regarding the process, it seems she has a similar approach.

Finally, some honest level headed recollection to this head scratching & presumptuous thread. As Johnny Stew acknowledges, The only producer Stevie really didn't like or get along with was Glyn Johns, which most likely was also exacerbated by Stevie's climaxing klonopin condition. And in the end, it was Jimmy who could no longer work with Stevie to finish RAL because of her heightening coke addition, ego & personal demons.

Since Stevie has been sober, she has worked successfully with many producers including; Don Was ("Somebody Stand By Me"), Pierre Marchand, John Shanks, David Kahane, Sheryl Crow, Glen Ballard & David Stewart to achieve the most cohesive solo recordings of her career since the early 80's.

Perhap's the intent of this thread was to dream about producers we as fans would love to see Stevie work with in the future:cool: I personally would love her to work with a younger producer like Mark Ronson (that could be really interesting) or Jon Brion, or keep things old school with T Bone Burnett, or do another round with Jimmy Iovine as executive producer. But ultimately I'd be satisfied to see her work with Dave Stewart again. Their work together was creatively successful, satisfying & consistent, while retaining the perfect amount of classic Stevie-ness.

[cliffdweller]

[QUOTE=Dodfather;1042504]Sorry but I have to point out that this was Jack White.
/QUOTE]

I sort of like the idea of Jack Black as a producer for Stevie

Ha-ha! Me too!

[TrueFaith77]

Rhett Davies has perfected the kind of sound to which Lindsey, Stevie, and the Mac should aspire.

But it won't happen because Stevie's taste sucks.


ETA: I thought Chris Isaak's MR. LUCKY was almost Rhett Davies-worthy. Producer credits (via wiki): Eric Rosse, John Shanks, Mark Needham, Chris Isaak

ETA: Also, I still think that working with the Pet Shop Boys would be the greatest thing Stevie could do.

[cliffdweller]

Finally, some honest level headed recollection to this head scratching & presumptuous thread. As Johnny Stew acknowledges, The only producer Stevie really didn't like or get along with was Glyn Johns, which most likely was also exacerbated by Stevie's climaxing klonopin condition. And in the end, it was Jimmy who could no longer work with Stevie to finish RAL because of her heightening coke addition, ego & personal demons.

Since Stevie has been sober, she has worked successfully with many producers including; Don Was ("Somebody Stand By Me"), Pierre Marchand, John Shanks, David Kahane, Sheryl Crow, Glen Ballard & David Stewart to achieve the most cohesive solo recordings of her career since the early 80's.

Perhap's the intent of this thread was to dream about producers we as fans would love to see Stevie work with in the future:cool: I personally would love her to work with a younger producer like Mark Ronson (that could be really interesting) or Jon Brion, or keep things old school with T Bone Burnett, or do another round with Jimmy Iovine as executive producer. But ultimately I'd be satisfied to see her work with Dave Stewart again. Their work together was creatively successful, satisfying & consistent, while retaining the perfect amount of classic Stevie-ness.

T Bone Burnett would be very interesting. He'd give Stevie a great sound, I think. Someone else mentioned Rick Rubin. I think that would be great if he's interested in her music. He kind of has to be a big fan of the artist he's producing to do magic with their material.

[Macfanforever]

I like to know why Stevie never gotten a number one solo tune.Excluding FM Dreams.Some did come close.I feel sorry for her with all the work she's done and not get a number one hit under her belt.She has had all the top producers in the biz that produced hits for other artists that help produce her music and get a mediocre outcome on the charts.IYD did had hit potential tunes on it. but nobody pushed it.:shrug:

Can somebody shed some light on this .Please.

[Jondalar]

Rick Rubin is the producer of the moment.

[Aussie W/Heart]

Why would Stevie want to hire a new producer?, Dave Stewart did an awesome job with IYD's, she had the best time of her life making this album.. When in the future Stevie decides to record another CD, it will be with Dave. Tho i would love for Jimmy L to produce 1 or 2 songs, just for old times sake & to complete the full circle of Stevie's career.

[Macfanforever]

Rick Rubin is the producer of the moment.

He produced Tom Petty, Johnny Cash,Dixie Chicks and Adele .The others he worked with according wikipidea are not in my faves dept.She can give him a try.
I dont see anything wrong with Dave.I still dont understand why this cd did not get noticed.Plus alittle or no radio airplay.I hope FM new cd gets noticed if they record one.I doubt it.

[mikephxaz]

[QUOTE=Christopher;1042729]Finally, some honest level headed recollection to this head scratching & presumptuous thread. As Johnny Stew acknowledges, The only producer Stevie really didn't like or get along with was Glyn Johns, which most likely was also exacerbated by Stevie's climaxing klonopin condition. And in the end, it was Jimmy who could no longer work with Stevie to finish RAL because of her heightening coke addition, ego & personal demons.

Since Stevie has been sober, she has worked successfully with many producers including; Don Was ("Somebody Stand By Me"), Pierre Marchand, John Shanks, David Kahane, Sheryl Crow, Glen Ballard & David Stewart to achieve the most cohesive solo recordings of her career since the early 80's.

Perhap's the intent of this thread was to dream about producers we as fans would love to see Stevie work with in the future:cool: I personally would love her to work with a younger producer like Mark Ronson (that could be really interesting) or Jon Brion, or keep things old school with T Bone Burnett, or do another round with Jimmy Iovine as executive producer. But ultimately I'd be satisfied to see her work with Dave Stewart again. Their work together was creatively successful, satisfying & consistent, while retaining the perfect amount of classic Stevie-ness."

The thread didn't presume that Stevie was difficult...I asked the question "if she was difficult??" We've all seen the same clips of the studio interaction. As I've already stated in an earlier remark...I'm a perfectionist..I'm a control freak...I certainly wouldnt critize Stevie for those traits..my question was " if" she was considered difficult in the circle of top producers?? (if your head continues to need to be scratched consider a new shampoo):xoxo:

[PenguinHead]

T Bone Burnett would be very interesting. He'd give Stevie a great sound, I think. Someone else mentioned Rick Rubin. I think that would be great if he's interested in her music. He kind of has to be a big fan of the artist he's producing to do magic with their material.

I think Dave has really served Stevie very well. I would be pleased if her produced her again. However it would be extremely interesting if T Bone Burnett was at the helm. He could showcase her music with a very different, distinct flavor. I think they would work well together. I love all the albums he produced with his former wife, Sam Phillips (I'm a big fan of hers).

[PenguinHead]

I'm a little confused... where have we gotten the notion that Stevie is "difficult" or that her relationship with her producers has been contentious? From all accounts, the only producer she ever really clashed with, was Glynn Johns.

Sure, her and Jimmy parted ways at the height of her craziness, but then they immediately worked together again when he asked her to record "Silent Night" just a couple of years later. They've also remained close friends. If she were that problematic in the studio, would he have wanted to work with her again so quickly?

It would seem there were no problems with Sheryl Crow, Rick Nowels, Keith Olsen, Mike Campbell, John Shanks and Thom Panunzio. And any issues with Rupert Hine seemed to arise only after the album was recorded, and for personal reasons.

What we saw in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, was an example of the complicated relationship between Stevie and Lindsey. I highly doubt it's indicative of her relationships with other producers. Besides, as HejiraNYC said, her having an opinion on the way her songs are completed, doesn't make her "difficult."

As for multiple producers... Cher once said that it's important to find the right producer for the right song. She said that if one producer doesn't "get" a particular song, she finds a producer who does. Based on some of the comments Stevie has made regarding the process, it seems she has a similar approach.

I stand corrected. I clearly inflated and overstated the situation of a very few into one of of many.

[windbecame]

i almost ALWAYS agree with EVERY post from MANY people...but SOMEBODY STEP ON ME just SUCKS!!! ..................S.........U.......C........K......S.....!!!! SUCKS... ...i mean REALLY????? (talking) i stood at the door.... and sucked while you drove away???? :shrug:.............YUCK....this song compares to "all the beautiful worlds" HOW?????????

[mitzo]

i almost ALWAYS agree with EVERY post from MANY people...but SOMEBODY STEP ON ME just SUCKS!!! ..................S.........U.......C........K......S.....!!!! SUCKS... ...i mean REALLY????? (talking) i stood at the door.... and sucked while you drove away???? :shrug:.............YUCK....this song compares to "all the beautiful worlds" HOW?????????

One of my faves. She really tore into the song and made a quasi-gospel un-Stevie tune into something her own. Interesting classic vocals from her, gorgeous arrangement, kept the Stevie mystique and allure!

[vivfox]

i almost ALWAYS agree with EVERY post from MANY people...but SOMEBODY STEP ON ME just SUCKS!!! ..................S.........U.......C........K......S.....!!!! SUCKS... ...i mean REALLY????? (talking) i stood at the door.... and sucked while you drove away???? :shrug:.............YUCK....this song compares to "all the beautiful worlds" HOW?????????


I agree with you completely. The vocal on this is almost as pitiful as on Jane.

[Johnny Stew]

I stand corrected. I clearly inflated and overstated the situation of a very few into one of of many.

Hi PH... I know I referred to your wording ("contentious") in my post, but I hope you know I wasn't directing my comments at you or calling you to task. When it looked like speculation & theories were moving towards being accepted as fact, I just wanted to add my two cents.

For the record, I don't think Stevie's above being moody or difficult -- I just don't believe, from all signs, that discord is the norm for her working relationships.

[Macfanforever]

Maybe its time to change.To what.....

[PenguinHead]

Hi PH... I know I referred to your wording ("contentious") in my post, but I hope you know I wasn't directing my comments at you or calling you to task. When it looked like speculation & theories were moving towards being accepted as fact, I just wanted to add my two cents.

For the record, I don't think Stevie's above being moody or difficult -- I just don't believe, from all signs, that discord is the norm for her working relationships.

I appreciate your comments. It's all cool. You made me realize that I was not as objective as I thought I was!

[PenguinHead]

I agree with you completely. The vocal on this is almost as pitiful as on Jane.

Huh?:shrug: I guess it's all the ear of the beholder, but I love the song and Stevie's rendering of it. I wish she would do an album in this style, because I think it really suites her.

[Rod~A~Little]

And I love "All The Beautiful Worlds!"...But Somebody Stand By Me never blew me away! And Jane and the monkies of the world have gotta go!

I think another good producer for Stevie might be Daniel Lanois! He helps create such haunting atmospheres in the songs he produces.

[Angel69]

One of my faves. She really tore into the song and made a quasi-gospel un-Stevie tune into something her own. Interesting classic vocals from her, gorgeous arrangement, kept the Stevie mystique and allure!


^^^^^^^^^ absolutely!!!!!!:nod:

[Angel69]

The vocal on this is almost as pitiful as on Jane.



I like the vocal on Jane.....it's the...... "forgotten chimpanzee"..... that throws the song off.

[mitzo]

I like the vocal on Jane.....it's the...... "forgotten chimpanzee"..... that throws the song off.

But the song is about Jane Goodall and her work with the endangered chimpanzees in Africa, so the lyrics actually fit if you know the context. To me Jane is a sweet and touching tribute to Ms Goodall, written and sung with an endearing kind of tender Stevieballad innocence and sincerity. I have always liked it. Pretty melody and nice sentiments.

[michelej1]

And I love "All The Beautiful Worlds!"...But Somebody Stand By Me never blew me away! And Jane and the monkies of the world have gotta go!



Yeah, put that on some fund-raising single, but leave it off the album. Michele

[tabruns]

I'm a little confused... where have we gotten the notion that Stevie is "difficult" or that her relationship with her producers has been contentious? From all accounts, the only producer she ever really clashed with, was Glynn Johns.

Sure, her and Jimmy parted ways at the height of her craziness, but then they immediately worked together again when he asked her to record "Silent Night" just a couple of years later. They've also remained close friends. If she were that problematic in the studio, would he have wanted to work with her again so quickly?

It would seem there were no problems with Sheryl Crow, Rick Nowels, Keith Olsen, Mike Campbell, John Shanks and Thom Panunzio. And any issues with Rupert Hine seemed to arise only after the album was recorded, and for personal reasons.

What we saw in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, was an example of the complicated relationship between Stevie and Lindsey. I highly doubt it's indicative of her relationships with other producers. Besides, as HejiraNYC said, her having an opinion on the way her songs are completed, doesn't make her "difficult."

As for multiple producers... Cher once said that it's important to find the right producer for the right song. She said that if one producer doesn't "get" a particular song, she finds a producer who does. Based on some of the comments Stevie has made regarding the process, it seems she has a similar approach.

Completely agree with this.

And mikephaz, protestations aside, yes you are implying she's difficult by putting in the topic heading "Is she too difficult?". Doesn't really work for you to blame it on the people who are calling you out on it.

[seekerj]

But the song is about Jane Goodall and her work with the endangered chimpanzees in Africa, so the lyrics actually fit if you know the context. To me Jane is a sweet and touching tribute to Ms Goodall, written and sung with an endearing kind of tender Stevieballad innocence and sincerity. I have always liked it. Pretty melody and nice sentiments.

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I very much agree. At last, someone who isn't shortsighted enough to dismiss an entire song because they don't like one particular word in it, and especially a song with such serious subject matter. I think I love you. Thanks again.

[HejiraNYC]

Completely agree with this.

And mikephaz, protestations aside, yes you are implying she's difficult by putting in the topic heading "Is she too difficult?". Doesn't really work for you to blame it on the people who are calling you out on it.

Agreed! It's one of those classic "how often do you beat your wife" types of questions. I mean, if you had broken chairs in your office, would you be insulted if someone asked you "do you think you might be overweight?" I really loathe those kinds of insidiously disrespectful questions.

But the song is about Jane Goodall and her work with the endangered chimpanzees in Africa, so the lyrics actually fit if you know the context. To me Jane is a sweet and touching tribute to Ms Goodall, written and sung with an endearing kind of tender Stevieballad innocence and sincerity. I have always liked it. Pretty melody and nice sentiments.

There is no question about the sincerity of the song... but I'm afraid Stevie should just avoid "literalism" altogether. Stevie is at her best when she sings in code- in which the words seem to paint a picture about a time/place that is foreign to us, yet seem to hit upon universally understood emotions. The lyrics to "Jane" just smack of bad high school English class homework assignment material- as if the teacher is asking the class to pick a person and write a 100-word ode about him/her. There is nothing personal, emotional or interpretive about it. I think a more effective approach would have been to extrapolate the learnings from Jane's research on chimpanzees onto human relationships and interactions, thereby removing the unfortunate "forgotten chimpanzee" element altogether.

[vivfox]

At last, someone who isn't shortsighted enough to dismiss an entire song because they don't like one particular word in it, and especially a song with such serious subject matter.


For me it's not the subject matter or the chimpanzee that I find annoying. It's the vocal that I find horrendous. She could have repeated chimpanzee a thousand times throughout the song and I wouldn't have cared less as long as she had laid down a decent vocal. To me she didn't sound vocally confident with this track.

[michelej1]

I think a more effective approach would have been to extrapolate the learnings from Jane's research on chimpanzees onto human relationships and interactions

She could write a song based on what she said about the Everyday video. Even the black swans that mate for life, fight incessantly.

Michele

[PolishStevieFan]

I really like "Jane" even though I don't think it's one of Stevie's glory moments. It won't go down in history as a remarkable, career-defining song but on the other hand who expected this from Stevie in 1994 during "Street Angel" era? I don't mind listening to words like "chimpanzee" or something and don't think her voice was especially weak on this track. The song is just a lovely tribute to a lovely lady who did something important. I really don't understand why there are so many people who dismiss "Street Angel" album. I love this album! There are so many highlights: "Greta", "Blue Denim", "Listen To The Rain", "Destiny", "Unconditional Love", "Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind", "Rose Garden", "Kick It"... This album is full of rich melodies, lyrics and decent vocals.

[mikephxaz]

Completely agree with this.

And mikephaz, protestations aside, yes you are implying she's difficult by putting in the topic heading "Is she too difficult?". Doesn't really work for you to blame it on the people who are calling you out on it.

Tabruns We will have to agree to disagree on this one. :wavey: I've always been interested if it has been Stevie's substance abuse or her temperament in the studio that created the friction with Lindsey and was the reasoning for producer selection....she has made no secret that her time in the studio with fleetwood Mac hasn't always been as enjoyable as her time with Dave. If you think I have somehow declared or confirmed that shes difficult then that is your choice and I don't particularly care. What I was implying is that I have followed Stevie since 1978 and it appears that in the last 20 years she has surrounded her self with producers that don't experiment or push her as much a "I" wish she would. Of course this is my wish...not your wish...my wish. Imo Her first three solo albums were incredible and until IYD the other albums seem to be sometimes just poor imitation or produced by individuals who couldn't "rope in" Stevie's sometimes unedited and undisciplined approach to music. To clarify , these are my opinions..not yours not any other ledges....if this bothers you or anyone else than I suggests you skip over my posts. Thanks. Mike

[Macfanforever]

I have not really listen to "Jane" enough to annoy me.Every artists have "filler" tunes to get their total song count on their cd's.As all of the years of listening and buying albums.There will be always some bad duds on their album.Which sound like crap and does not make sense in recording them in the first place.With Stevie's music.I have to give her 99 1/2 percent of her music is great.Some of filler tunes on other artists albums sound even better then the released tunes.As I said I've been buying albums since the 1970's .You get the hits plus a couple good filler tracks and the duds.Stevie's IYD cd is a winner on my list.I love them all.I hope her upcoming cd will be too.If Dave or whoever she will hire to produce her new cd will be the same ic IYD cd.

[mikephxaz]

I have not really listen to "Jane" enough to annoy me.Every artists have "filler" tunes to get their total song count on their cd's.As all of the years of listening and buying albums.There will be always some bad duds on their album.Which sound like crap and does not make sense in recording them in the first place.With Stevie's music.I have to give her 99 1/2 percent of her music is great.Some of filler tunes on other artists albums sound even better then the released tunes.As I said I've been buying albums since the 1970's .You get the hits plus a couple good filler tracks and the duds.Stevie's IYD cd is a winner on my list.I love them all.I hope her upcoming cd will be too.If Dave or whoever she will hire to produce her new cd will be the same ic IYD cd.


I agree! Maybe if Jane hadnt been the closing song...She usually has such a strong closer on her cds.

[Angel69]

But the song is about Jane Goodall and her work with the endangered chimpanzees in Africa, so the lyrics actually fit if you know the context. To me Jane is a sweet and touching tribute to Ms Goodall, written and sung with an endearing kind of tender Stevieballad innocence and sincerity. I have always liked it. Pretty melody and nice sentiments.


I know the back story to the lyric and I do like the song....it's just that lyric...:laugh:

[mitzo]

I agree that Stevie's producers have not always captured what is special about her - only Linds seems to get it. He can take a thread of her melody and lyric and make a whole world around it.

[On Ice]

I really don't understand why there are so many people who dismiss "Street Angel" album. I love this album! There are so many highlights: "Greta", "Blue Denim", "Listen To The Rain", "Destiny", "Unconditional Love", "Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind", "Rose Garden", "Kick It"... This album is full of rich melodies, lyrics and decent vocals.

Well said, I couldn't agree more. The only thing I can think of that really drags this album down are some of the background vocals, ie "straight back" in Love is Like a River, but overall, I think she sounds pretty good! I don't get the dislike of the Just Like a Woman vocal, it's clear and very pretty, ditto for Destiny. To me, Street Angel is an improvement over the dragging Other Side of the Mirror and I enjoyed it in '94 and still listen to it today. Personally, I think the dislike stems more from where Stevie was at, or felt she was at, when the album was released as opposed to the quality of the work which isn't shabby at all.

[cliffdweller]

Well said, I couldn't agree more. The only thing I can think of that really drags this album down are some of the background vocals, ie "straight back" in Love is Like a River, but overall, I think she sounds pretty good! I don't get the dislike of the Just Like a Woman vocal, it's clear and very pretty, ditto for Destiny. To me, Street Angel is an improvement over the dragging Other Side of the Mirror and I enjoyed it in '94 and still listen to it today. Personally, I think the dislike stems more from where Stevie was at, or felt she was at, when the album was released as opposed to the quality of the work which isn't shabby at all.

There are a handful of good songs on this album. I really don't think it's as abysmal as everyone else thinks. Actually, I think I listen to Street Angel more than I listen to TOSOTM. I hardly ever pick up that album.

[On Ice]

Hi Cliff,

Great to hear some positive comments about Street Angel. I share your sentiments on The Other Side of the Mirror, (I know a lot of fans love the album) but I think Rooms on Fire is one Stevie's best moments (the song was even played on an alt radio station in Toronto back in '89) but the album as a whole drags for me and I find the writing inconsistent and the vocals too monotone in spots. Saw a really decent performance on that tour though in Toronto and she did quite a few songs off the album which I thought was a good move on her part.

[windbecame]

Hi Cliff,

Great to hear some positive comments about Street Angel. I share your sentiments on The Other Side of the Mirror, (I know a lot of fans love the album) but I think Rooms on Fire is one Stevie's best moments (the song was even played on an alt radio station in Toronto back in '89) but the album as a whole drags for me and I find the writing inconsistent and the vocals too monotone in spots. Saw a really decent performance on that tour though in Toronto and she did quite a few songs off the album which I thought was a good move on her part.

i totally agree with most of this post. (love street angel)... but, as far as the tour goes. klonopin behavior aside, i have always thought her song choices hurt her. on the rock a little tour she did more singles. while i personally loved that she did so many mirror songs.... i took a few friends here at Alpine Valley, when she was done they were all - where was stop draggin, leather and lace, rhiannon???? it's like this was strictly a ledgie tour lol. it's like the casual fan was alienated...the following tour here at alpine valley i don't think the crowd was even half the size as the mirror tour:shrug:

[KarmaContestant]

Based on circumstances and things that Stevie has said about her music over the past (nearly) 40 years, I would conculde that it is only obvious that Stevie is not easy to work with in the studio.

Not that she's necessarily difficult, but she's certainly not the agreeable type.

She's flighty, changes her mind constantly, scraps songs that have been worked hard on and seems completely closed to any artistic vision other than her own (why hire a producer anyway if you're going to be that way?) and has made it clear time and time again that she's almost never satisfied with the way her songs are translated from demo to final.

The one and only producer other than Lindsey, who really seemed to 'get' what Stevie was all about was Jimmy Iovine, and we all know how that ended. I think Dave's work on In Your Dreams is brilliant - and I hope that they are able to work together again because Stevie seems to trust him.

I have to wonder though if the documentary being delayed is actually her doing - I wouldn't be the least bit surprised because she overthinks everything.

[Macfanforever]

I still think she can produce on her own.If she puts her mind to it.Also I think Dave probably taught her alot while they were recording .I hope she grasped everything that he showed her.Also I dont remember if there is a union rule.you have to have a producer with the artist recording.Unless he/she has the credentials under their belt.On mentioning the Street Angel album.I enjoy this cd.To bad it did not get anywhere.I hope IYD dont go in that direction with the results of no radio support and no promotion package.

[Travisevian]

And Jane and the monkies of the world have gotta go!

:laugh: :p

I think another good producer for Stevie might be Daniel Lanois! He helps create such haunting atmospheres in the songs he produces.

I'm not familiar with his work. Do you have an example of a song or album that he's recently produced?

But the song is about Jane Goodall and her work with the endangered chimpanzees in Africa, so the lyrics actually fit if you know the context.

Absolutely!

I don't mind listening to words like "chimpanzee" or something

...or "laundromat"? ;)

I really don't understand why there are so many people who dismiss "Street Angel" album.

I've stated this before but I think it's mostly because Stevie dismisses the album. Regardless, I believe it's a good album and undeserving of the harsh criticism it receives.

I love this album! There are so many highlights: "Greta", "Blue Denim", "Listen To The Rain", "Destiny", "Unconditional Love", "Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind", "Rose Garden", "Kick It"... This album is full of rich melodies, lyrics and decent vocals.

Street Angel is my favourite Stevie Nicks album so, of course, I agree wholeheartedly.

[PolishStevieFan]

It's good to know we're not only people in the universe to love "Street Angel" album. I still remember very positive (4 out of 5 stars) review of the album in a popular Polish magazine wrote by prolific journalist. I didn't listen to Stevie Nick's music back then but I wondered how he could give Fleetwood Mac's singer better rating than 2 Unlimited's latest album :D For Me "Street Angel" in a way is like going back to the roots. After few synth driven albums Stevie finally went back to the times of "Bella Donna" and in my view captured the essence of that period. If given better promotion and maybe few production corrections this album could have been her comeback. Sadly it was not a good time for veteran female vocalists. Benatar's album "Gravity's Rainbow" went into oblivion soon after its release; Heart's album "Desire Walks On" bombed...Grunge music came and took all the fun out of the music industry. Not that I wasn't a big fan of Nirvana and Alice in Chains :)

[On Ice]

If given better promotion and maybe few production corrections this album could have been her comeback

Add to the mix that killer version of Mirror Mirror (I'm convinced there's other gems locked in a vault somewhere that even Stevie has forgotten :) that surfaced and a couple of the duds removed, and it was the makings of a Bella Donna #2. Not to mention her killer performances on the tour, who cares about the weight issue really, it's who she is inside that counts(ed).

[mikephxaz]

Based on circumstances and things that Stevie has said about her music over the past (nearly) 40 years, I would conculde that it is only obvious that Stevie is not easy to work with in the studio.

Not that she's necessarily difficult, but she's certainly not the agreeable type.

She's flighty, changes her mind constantly, scraps songs that have been worked hard on and seems completely closed to any artistic vision other than her own (why hire a producer anyway if you're going to be that way?) and has made it clear time and time again that she's almost never satisfied with the way her songs are translated from demo to final.

The one and only producer other than Lindsey, who really seemed to 'get' what Stevie was all about was Jimmy Iovine, and we all know how that ended. I think Dave's work on In Your Dreams is brilliant - and I hope that they are able to work together again because Stevie seems to trust him.

I have to wonder though if the documentary being delayed is actually her doing - I wouldn't
be the least bit surprised because she overthinks everything.

I completely agree with this...I have this feeling that Jimmy could write a book about watching the changes with Stevie from the young lady who he worked with on BellaDonna to his experience with her on WildHeart and then finally Rock a Little. Wow. I bet Jimmy could tell a few stories

[Aussie W/Heart]

Add to the mix that killer version of Mirror Mirror (I'm convinced there's other gems locked in a vault somewhere that even Stevie has forgotten :) that surfaced and a couple of the duds removed, and it was the makings of a Bella Donna #2. Not to mention her killer performances on the tour, who cares about the weight issue really, it's who she is inside that counts(ed).

Yes that Mirror Mirror version is epic, such a shame it never got released as a single back in the early 90's.. Im intrigued at why it all went pear shaped between Stevie & was it Glen Fry ? I imagine there's a bunch of material that unfortunately got shelved, hopefully one day it will magically resurface here on The Ledge:thumbsup:

[BombaySapphire3]

. Im intrigued at why it all went pear shaped between Stevie & was it Glen Fry ? :

It was Joe Walsh who apparently said it was due to her partying too much:shrug:

[Neal]

Sadly it was not a good time for veteran female vocalists. Benatar's album "Gravity's Rainbow" went into oblivion soon after its release; Heart's album "Desire Walks On" bombed...

I love both of those albums, and consider them among the best of both artists respective catalogues! :thumbsup:

[vivfox]

Based on circumstances and things that Stevie has said about her music over the past (nearly) 40 years, I would conculde that it is only obvious that Stevie is not easy to work with in the studio.
She's flighty, changes her mind constantly, scraps songs that have been worked hard on and seems completely closed to any artistic vision other than her own (why hire a producer anyway if you're going to be that way?) and has made it clear time and time again that she's almost never satisfied with the way her songs are translated from demo to final.


Matt, I agree with all of this. The songs she recorded with Glyn Johns for Street Angel were absolutely perfect. Listen To The Rain, Greta & Docklands for example were absolutely brilliant and then later she went back in the studio and destroyed their briliance.

Brilliant is your color baby.

[sparky]

Until Mirage, Lindsey did a great job producing Stevie. The only great song he did on that record was Gypsy. That's Alright could have been produced by Helen Keller. The songs structure is simple, it was an old song, it was done. IMO any country artist could have made it a hit then and likely could now. Its great composition. From Stevie's most fertile songwriting period.

Past that, I don't think he did a song of hers justice. Other than Goodbye Baby, I think he did a terrible job on that record. Say You Will didn't even belong on a record. Let alone be a title track. Whatever veto power he had should have been swung down on that piece of MOR no hook junk. It was not up to snuff. And he trashed her other songs on SYW other than EFO which was very well done and stuck out like a sore thumb on that middling over wrought chunk of a record.

After Bella Donna Stevie's song selection and production started a swift decline. Jimmy was the last person with taste that she listened to. She was very powerful and I think her instincts were influenced by her ego, her drug use, and her irrational connection to songs that while they may have had significance to her, may not have been very good songs at all. See any song on Street Skank or OSOTM.

Thank god for Dave Stewart. Even TISL had junk on it. Everyday was a throwaway gimme to give a producer songwriting money. Love Changes ditto. I have no idea what the hell happened to Love Is. Live it is fantastic. The record version is a snore. I suspect it was a label scam to connect her Sarah, who was effectively done as a commercial force though no one knew it at the time. Either way the end result was a big bad clunk of a song that deserved better.

So is she difficult to produce? Not if she respects you and the label gets the hell out of the the way. And her judgment is in check. Otherwise? Look at history. She pumped out a lot of junk. We may love most of it, but post Wild Heart, there is a lot of junk. And Lindsey no longer helps. I don't want to hear anything he produces of her. Ever again. His SYW songs are a train wreck.

[mitzo]

Until Mirage, Lindsey did a great job producing Stevie. The only great song he did on that record was Gypsy. That's Alright could have been produced by Helen Keller. The songs structure is simple, it was an old song, it was done. IMO any country artist could have made it a hit then and likely could now. Its great composition. From Stevie's most fertile songwriting period.

Past that, I don't think he did a song of hers justice. Other than Goodbye Baby, I think he did a terrible job on that record. Say You Will didn't even belong on a record. Let alone be a title track. Whatever veto power he had should have been swung down on that piece of MOR no hook junk. It was not up to snuff. And he trashed her other songs on SYW other than EFO which was very well done and stuck out like a sore thumb on that middling over wrought chunk of a record.

After Bella Donna Stevie's song selection and production started a swift decline. Jimmy was the last person with taste that she listened to. She was very powerful and I think her instincts were influenced by her ego, her drug use, and her irrational connection to songs that while they may have had significance to her, may not have been very good songs at all. See any song on Street Skank or OSOTM.

Thank god for Dave Stewart. Even TISL had junk on it. Everyday was a throwaway gimme to give a producer songwriting money. Love Changes ditto. I have no idea what the hell happened to Love Is. Live it is fantastic. The record version is a snore. I suspect it was a label scam to connect her Sarah, who was effectively done as a commercial force though no one knew it at the time. Either way the end result was a big bad clunk of a song that deserved better.

So is she difficult to produce? Not if she respects you and the label gets the hell out of the the way. And her judgment is in check. Otherwise? Look at history. She pumped out a lot of junk. We may love most of it, but post Wild Heart, there is a lot of junk. And Lindsey no longer helps. I don't want to hear anything he produces of her. Ever again. His SYW songs are a train wreck.

It neve ceases to amaze me how we seem to be listening to totally different Stevies. I thought Stevie on SYW was the best Stevie had heard since Tango and Rock a Little. On SYW all her tunes were jiggled and fiddled by Linds into interesting soundscapes with lots of delicious things to hear on every listen. He even made the best silk purses he could out of sow's ears like SYW and Silver Girl.

She was so dreary on TOSOTM and SA and TISL. Either trying too hard or just smothered under crappy half-hearted production. The only track on TISL I liked and clung to was in fact Love Is. Vastly prefer that to the bawling tedium of the live version.

[cliffdweller]

He even made the best silk purses he could out of sow's ears like SYW and Silver Girl.

There was no saving Silver Girl. Someone should have SERIOUSLY vetoed that going on the album. We all know she has better stuff in the vaults than THAT snoozer of a song.

I agree, Lindsey didn't ruin Stevie's songs on SYW. I think he did a good job, she just included some clunkers that couldn't be saved. I'm not a big fan of her slow songs on the album and I think that Smile At You should have sounded more like the angry demo version, but for the most part, her stuff is pretty good on SYW.

One thing Lindsey should try to reign in is the tendency to make everything sound like it's from the 80's. Big, slick, loud productions. That's how Tango sounded and it seems like he hasn't strayed from that approach much with modern day FM.

[mikephxaz]

Until Mirage, Lindsey did a great job producing Stevie. The only great song he did on that record was Gypsy. That's Alright could have been produced by Helen Keller. The songs structure is simple, it was an old song, it was done. IMO any country artist could have made it a hit then and likely could now. Its great composition. From Stevie's most fertile songwriting period.

Past that, I don't think he did a song of hers justice. Other than Goodbye Baby, I think he did a terrible job on that record. Say You Will didn't even belong on a record. Let alone be a title track. Whatever veto power he had should have been swung down on that piece of MOR no hook junk. It was not up to snuff. And he trashed her other songs on SYW other than EFO which was very well done and stuck out like a sore thumb on that middling over wrought chunk of a record.

After Bella Donna Stevie's song selection and production started a swift decline. Jimmy was the last person with taste that she listened to. She was very powerful and I think her instincts were influenced by her ego, her drug use, and her irrational connection to songs that while they may have had significance to her, may not have been very good songs at all. See any song on Street Skank or OSOTM.


Thank god for Dave Stewart. Even TISL had junk on it. Everyday was a throwaway gimme to give a producer songwriting money. Love Changes ditto. I have no idea what the hell happened to Love Is. Live it is fantastic. The record version is a snore. I suspect it was a label scam to connect her Sarah, who was effectively done as a commercial force though no one knew it at the time. Either way the end result was a big bad clunk of a song that deserved better.

So is she difficult to produce? Not if she respects you and the label gets the hell out of the the way. And her judgment is in check. Otherwise? Look at history. She pumped out a lot of junk. We may love most of it, but post Wild Heart, there is a lot of junk. And Lindsey no
longer helps. I don't want to hear anything he produces of her. Ever again. His SYW songs are a train wreck.

Wow, Sparky those are fighting words...lol...that kind of honesty gets some of these people's panties in a wad. I agree with much of this. Make no mistake I am the first in line to buy ANYTHING that Stevie releases but if you question Stevie's choices or reasons for her choices the zealots come out. Your comment "so is she difficult to produce..not if she respects you.....".is an interesting one. I've always wondered if it's not her respect that is required but instead it's an intense admiration of her that is required to get the job. If a potential producer is excessively enamored with her I'm not sure they push her enough and they don't "tame" some of Stevie's excesses.
Lastly I have to disagree with your thoughts concerning stevies contributions on SYW. I love her material on this cd. While it's a "strange"collection of her songs for one cd... I love them!!!!

[Travisevian]

Heart's album "Desire Walks On" bombed...

Desire Walks On is my favourite Heart album and it's unfortunate that it wasn't more commercially successful.

[PolishStevieFan]

Desire Walks On is my favourite Heart album and it's unfortunate that it wasn't more commercially successful.

I love this album as well and don't understand why it didn't set the charts on fire, especially considering that the first single-"Will You Be There In The Morning" was so powerful and catchy.

[mitzo]

Wow, Sparky those are fighting words...lol...that kind of honesty gets some of these people's panties in a wad. I agree with much of this. Make no mistake I am the first in line to buy ANYTHING that Stevie releases but if you question Stevie's choices or reasons for her choices the zealots come out. Your comment "so is she difficult to produce..not if she respects you.....".is an interesting one. I've always wondered if it's not her respect that is required but instead it's an intense admiration of her that is required to get the job. If a potential producer is excessively enamored with her I'm not sure they push her enough and they don't "tame" some of Stevie's excesses.
Lastly I have to disagree with your thoughts concerning stevies contributions on SYW. I love her material on this cd. While it's a "strange"collection of her songs for one cd... I love them!!!!

I have always thought of Stevie as a difficult character, self absorbed, vain, and craving of attention, so I agree she probably has rough experiences with some producers. She and Linds do not get along because he is a perfectionist and does not worship her.

Stevie's songs on SYW with Lindsey's production come across as a strange and fascinating box of treats, to my ears. I still do not tire of listening to them again and again, whereas TISL and IYD haven't been played in my house or car for quite a while. The only other album I can compare it to is Tusk.

[Jondalar]

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

[mikephxaz]

I have always thought of Stevie as a difficult character, self absorbed, vain, and craving of attention, so I agree she probably has rough experiences with some producers. She and Linds do not get along because he is a perfectionist and does not worship her.

Stevie's songs on SYW with Lindsey's production come across as a strange and fascinating box of treats, to my ears. I still do not tire of listening to them again and again, whereas TISL and IYD haven't been played in my house or car for quite a while. The only other album I can compare it to is Tusk.


Mitzo...I LOVE LOVE the description of "a strange box of treats to my ears...I still don't tire of listening to them again and again.....the only other album I can compare it to is Tusk...". I could not have said it better. Where we disagree is that I include IYD in that same category...not TISL. I don't think it's a bad thing if Stevie is described as being "difficult". My fear is she has limited her success fo being indulgent.

[Macfanforever]

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

I agree alittle on that.Produce it herself.Anyway she got to do something different to keep up with the Joneses .Record a country cd.Team up with Adele,Katy Perry or record a rap hip hop cd with Kanye West or somebody. I really blame the record label for not helping in the promotion dept.The old days they did everything to promote their artist.Today forget it.

[WildHearted]

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

I'm speaking more about individual songs than I am albums as a whole, but honestly, I think everyone can agree that without a doubt Stevie is, at least to some extent, dependent on producers. Listen to any of her rough demos - bare, bare bones, the shell of a song, a chord progression and her voice. In that respect, I think some blame CAN be put on them (although, it wouldn't, if Stevie wasn't dependent on them in the first place - so that's ultimately where the problem lies). She has plenty of amazing demos, she has plenty of amazing songs, she's got some clunkers of demos, and she's got some clunkers of songs. They don't necessarily match up.

I'll use the tired example of Gypsy - the potential of a song fully explored to perfection. But Gypsy, like any one of her compositions, could have taken a lot of different directions. The piano demo of that song, while haunting, is not really anything special, in terms of what Stevie gave - lyrics and a melody. Gypsy could have turned into a country song or a hard rocker or a ballad or who knows what. Ultimately whoever it is who is working on the record has to be able to hear what the song should be AND what Stevie wants it to be.

The same could be said of any one of her songs. Smile At You is obviously a popular example from the other side of the spectrum - a good song gone wrong. Planets of the Universe is an example of a song changing form (and I'm sure people have varying opinions on which version of that song is the best).

The potential might not always be there in the song, but when it is, it IS up to the producer or the band or whomever it is that is working with Stevie to realize it. That might not be fair. But that's just how I see it, at least, it has to be that way because of the situation as we know it.

[HejiraNYC]

Stevie seems to blame her producers a lot of times for her failures in the past. The truth is was albums failed because of weak material.

Other than Glynn Johns, she has not had anything bad to say about any producers. How can you take one example and make it sound like she makes a habit of it? Stop.

[PenguinHead]

Desire Walks On is my favourite Heart album and it's unfortunate that it wasn't more commercially successful.

I love that album too: one of their best. It goes to show that, because of a variety of circumstances, quality music can be flushed down the toliet while ****ty music can float and linger.

Sadly that's usually the case. There are a lot of unsung musicians and bands (and albums) much more deserving of success than those who actually make it big. Success can be very unfair and elusive. Stevie and Lindsey were very lucky.

[Fannymac]

I've been saying for years that I would LOVE to see Rick Rubin produce Stevie! Second choice? Matt Serlatic (?)!

[Macfanforever]

I happen to watch the movie Nashville again.In the opening with Henry Gibson's character {Haven Hamilton} is in the recording studio recording the "200 Years " song.As I was watching it .I was thinking when Stevie and FM in the recording studio with everything going wrong.Just watch.A reporter sneeks in he had to stop recording and had her tossed out by his son.Getting annoyed with the overpowering backup singers .you can see it in his face.Having it out with the piano player {Played by Richard Baskin}and walked out of the studio.

I can see it can be a pain in the a$$ at times .Trying to get along with the people that work with you in the studio.It's like any job.





<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-Rnx7rWuStA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[PolishStevieFan]

When it comes to producers I would like to see Stevie collaborating with Brian Eno, Trevor Horn or Peter Asher.

[Ghosty]

I would love for her to work with John Shanks again (was that his name? I forget). I love all the songs on TISL that he did, and the ones Stevie co-produced on. I would love a whole cd of the two of them. It was by far my favorite since the Jimmy Days.

Also, maybe she could work with Jimmy again? Although maybe it would just be too much. She got so big, maybe she would have trouble handing power over to him now? I dunno.

[WildHearted]

I am not sure that Jimmy actually does much producing these days, I think he has more of a larger overseeing management position now being the head of Interscope and all.

[iamnotafraid]

I am not sure that Jimmy actually does much producing these days, I think he has more of a larger overseeing management position now being the head of Interscope and all.

He hasn't really been involved in producing since the
Miley Cyrus Bella Donna remake project of 2008.
And that's a shame after hearing some of the tapes.

[Fireflies]

He hasn't really been involved in producing since the
Miley Cyrus Bella Donna remake project of 2008.
And that's a shame after hearing some of the tapes.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg180/shidgen/orly.jpg

[TrueFaith77]

I been saying Fleetwood Mac/Stevie should work with Xenomania.

Check out the new Xenomania-produced Gossip single: "Perfect World"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh7_pEjX34U

http://perfectworld.gossipyouth.com/

It sounds like, to me, what Stevie wanted to go for with TISL.

[johnnystorms]

I been saying Fleetwood Mac/Stevie should work with Xenomania.

Check out the new Xenomania-produced Gossip single: "Perfect World"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh7_pEjX34U

http://perfectworld.gossipyouth.com/

It sounds like, to me, what Stevie wanted to go for with TISL.

thx for the tip! i like this!

[PenguinHead]

I been saying Fleetwood Mac/Stevie should work with Xenomania.

Check out the new Xenomania-produced Gossip single: "Perfect World"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh7_pEjX34U

http://perfectworld.gossipyouth.com/

It sounds like, to me, what Stevie wanted to go for with TISL.

Wow! I hear and understand what you mean! Good ears!

[Nathan]

^^^
Love this Gossip single. Just emailed it to a friend, thanks for sharing.

It is available for free download.

[mikephxaz]

I been saying Fleetwood Mac/Stevie should work with Xenomania.

Check out the new Xenomania-produced Gossip single: "Perfect World"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh7_pEjX34U

http://perfectworld.gossipyouth.com/

It sounds like, to me, what Stevie wanted to go for with TISL.

Wow. That is a great call. Someone needs to send that to Stevie. Great call. It sounds like an edgy fleetwood Mac.

[TrueFaith77]

Check out, but don't limit yourself, to Track 3 "In Our Eyes":

http://www.nme.com/news/niki-and-the-dove/63671

Maybe this duo could bring something to Stevie as collaborators/producers?



ETA: Oh! And the full Gossip / Xenomania album A JOYFUL NOISE is available streaming here:

http://music.aol.com/new-releases-full-cds/spinner#/1

[Ghost_Tracker]

The topic of potential producers for Stevie was brought up in another thread. My question is whether it's Rick Ruben or Don Was 0r Jimmy Iovine....is Stevie considered to difficult to produce? Does she take to long to record in the studio? Does she not take enough risks? Is her voice considered to be too limited? For some reason she seems to be unable to produce an entire album with one single producer except for IYD with Dave. I enjoyed her music with Dave. Someone mentioned Rick Rubin. Ricks work with Johnny Cash and Jack Blacks work with Loretta Lynn was amazing. I wish Stevie would consider challenging herself even more. Really pushing the edge.

My personal opinion is that it's just simply scheduling. While admittedly not selling in Lady Gaga caliber numbers any more, she's "got some street cred" and so can hire top of the line producers and engineers - Dave Stewart, Chris Lord-Alge etc. But being "top tier" their schedules must be very hectic, Dave Stewart for example went on to something else very shortly after wrapping up the album with Stevie. So personally I wouldn't be surprised if they might make a deal where they just do half an album or something, in order to "squeeze it in" between other things. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just blind random chance that she was able to get Dave Stewart.

Might help to explain some of the delays between albums that go on these days, too, imo.

[mikephxaz]

^^^
Love this Gossip single. Just emailed it to a friend, thanks for sharing.

It is available for free download.


i bought the gossip cd Joyful Noise because of the single Perfect World....its absolutely terrible....the single Perfect World is incredible!!! but the rest of the cd is just bad:sorry:

[cliffdweller]

i bought the gossip cd Joyful Noise because of the single Perfect World....its absolutely terrible....the single Perfect World is incredible!!! but the rest of the cd is just bad:sorry:

I'm sorry to hear that because I was looking forward to listening to it. I have their other albums and love them, especially "Music for Men."

[mikephxaz]

I'm sorry to hear that because I was looking forward to listening to it. I have their other albums and love them, especially "Music for Men."

Cliffdweller..dont let my opinion stop you from giving it a chance...the single Perfect World is fantastic but I'd be interested to hear if you think the other nine songs compare....let me know!;)

[TrueFaith77]

I love the Gossip album JOYFUL NOISE--and even think several songs are superior to "Perfect World"--it's just that's really the only song in that style.

Great review of the album here:

http://nypress.com/tailored-excess/

[billwebster]

I'm also biased in favor of the "Street Angel" album because Stevie has got a great band on that one. Ethan Johns is one heck of a versatile musician. It's good that her and Thom Panunzio (RIP) did not mix him out. "Gretta" is probably my favourite Stevie solo song.

From TISL, I prefer "Love Changes" and I feel the David Kahne production suits her a whole lot better than what John Shanks did. I don't know why but I find the sound and arrangements of John Shanks' productions to be incredibly boring (well, with the exception of Joe Cocker's album "Respect Yourself"). I guess I would enjoy her working with Kahne again.

Dave Stewart has done an incredibly good job on IYD. They are a great team. If Stevie wants another woman involved, Dave might as well bring in his partner in Platinum Weird, Kara DioGuardi.

Stevie really worked with hip hop producer Dallas Austin once? I wonder how that turned out but I'm rather sure it could have been a hit.

If it should be a female producer, I'd suggest Anne Preven, former frontwoman of Ednaswap and Annetenna who with her musical partner Scott Cutler has written and produced for many artists. Natalie Imbruglia's "Torn" is probably their greatest hit but they have done other great work, too.

[MikeInNV]

Thom Panunzio (RIP)

Umm.....what's this?

[KarmaContestant]

i bought the gossip cd Joyful Noise because of the single Perfect World....its absolutely terrible....the single Perfect World is incredible!!! but the rest of the cd is just bad:sorry:

:laugh:

That said, I love Joyful Noise - but Gossip has never put out a bad album, in my opinion. My favorite track right now is Get A Job.

[mikephxaz]

:laugh:

That said, I love Joyful Noise - but Gossip has never put out a bad album, in my opinion. My favorite track right now is Get A Job.

isn't it interesting...i've tried to listen to Joyful Noise a few more times to give it a chance...my least favorite song is Get A Job.....isnt it crazy the differences in taste and preferences..:thumbsup:

[KarmaContestant]

isn't it interesting...i've tried to listen to Joyful Noise a few more times to give it a chance...my least favorite song is Get A Job.....isnt it crazy the differences in taste and preferences..:thumbsup:

I sing it to my cats in the morning. :laugh: They always want to lay around and purr, but I've got to go earn the cash to feed them!

"I'd love to stay and party but I gotta go to work!" :woohoo:

[mikephxaz]

I sing it to my cats in the morning. :laugh: They always want to lay around and purr, but I've got to go earn the cash to feed them!

"I'd love to stay and party but I gotta go to work!" :woohoo:

The one thing I can say about beth is...if she had really great lyrics should could be a MAJOR star...She could be on the same par of Adele if she had the right material:thumbsup: