'75 Fleetwood Mac - Rate the Non-Hits

[MacShadowsBall]

As promised here is the first thread on the contest is to find the #1 favorite Fleetwood Mac non-hit song. Now you might be wondering "What song's are considered 'non-hits'" What I have done is removed the song from each vocalist from each album that won the favorite song contest back in 2010. That seemed like the most fair and evenly balanced thing to do.

So removing the hits, rate the other songs on a scale of 1-10, 1 being "I hate it" and 10 being "I absolutely love it".

Warm Ways -

Over My Head -

Sugar Daddy -

World Turning -

I'm So Afraid -

Blue Letter -

Crystal -

Landslide -

[MikeInNV]

Hard for me not to consider "Over My Head" and "Landslide" hits.

Did we decide not to separate the songs out by songwriter/vocalist?

[bluefox4000]

Warm Ways - 4. Not bad, not good, just meh...Chris has written better songs.

Over My Head - 4. Another So so tune from Chris. I know a lot of people like it, to me it's nothing Special

Sugar Daddy -6 A whole lot of fun. No masterpiece just a fun tune.

World Turning - 8. Great team up with Lindsey and Chris. It got ridiculous live with Mick and his solos, but as it is on record, I love it.

I'm So Afraid -8. After hearing it live it was a shocker to hear how understated it was on record. It works though. It's a little bit more chilling.

Blue Letter 2 -Fun cover, but it's just a cover.....so minus points:)

Crystal -10 One of my favorite Stevie songs. I love how Lindsey sings it. But I wish Stevie had sung it in her prime, instead of years later

Landslide- 3 To many years of this have bled me of liking it.

Mick

[CADreaming]

Warm Ways - 5

Over My Head - 7

Sugar Daddy - 6

World Turning - 10

I'm So Afraid - 10

Blue Letter - 6

Crystal - 8 (BN version is my preferred)

Landslide - 9 (The innocence in the original cannot be captured in subsequent versions, but this song has blossomed into its maturity and still holds its beauty).

[MacShadowsBall]

Hard for me not to consider "Over My Head" and "Landslide" hits.

So true, but Say You Love Me and Rhiannon won back in 2010. Wait until we get to Rumours when Dreams and Don't Stop are in the running.

Did we decide not to separate the songs out by songwriter/vocalist?

This is just a discussion-type thread. My plan for the second thread is for all the non-hits to be in the first poll, asking Ledgies to vote for one song max per vocalist. Then the top song for each vocalist will go to favorite non-hit from '75 Fleetwood Mac.

I thought against doing 3 separate polls to save time and from having polls galore all over the Rumours forum. :cool:

[elle]

What I have done is removed the song from each vocalist from each album that won the favorite song contest back in 2010. That seemed like the most fair and evenly balanced thing to do.

So removing the hits, rate the other songs on a scale of 1-10[/B]

interesting way of doing it. just wondering, so your definition of "hits" is what people here voted as the biggest hit of the album? sounds a lot like "deep cuts" from the other thread (calling "Hold me" a deep cut) :lol::lol:.

just for a reference, here is wikipedia page that also lists white album hits - including Over My Head and Landslide (possibly the biggest FM and SN hit) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac_(1975_album). while i respect this is your poll and you are putting a lot of thought into it and can do whatever you want (and people can choose not to play if they don't like it), i'm thinking that when people voted for the poll of non-hits, they didn't have Landslide in mind!:laugh:

[MacShadowsBall]

interesting way of doing it. just wondering, so your definition of "hits" is what people here voted as the biggest hit of the album? sounds a lot like "deep cuts" from the other thread (calling "Hold me" a deep cut) :lol::lol:.

just for a reference, here is wikipedia page that also lists white album hits - including Over My Head and Landslide (possibly the biggest FM and SN hit) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac_(1975_album). while i respect this is your poll and you are putting a lot of thought into it and can do whatever you want (and people can choose not to play if they don't like it), i'm thinking that when people voted for the poll of non-hits, they didn't have Landslide in mind!:laugh:

Sticky situation, eh. There is an issue of what constitutes a "hit". Three singles were released from this album, Over My Head, Say You Love Me, and Rhiannon. One could argue that those were the "hits". The songs that would be hits are the songs that would be released as singles, unless the song became heavly featured on their live shows, a la I'm So Afraid and yes Landslide.

Removing the one song per vocalist per album that won back in 2010 is a more consistent way to run this contest. If we remove Over My Head and Landslide from the non-hits contest, we would need to add Monday Morning since it was not a hit. Now the songs are out of balance.

Perhaps a "deep cuts" contest would have been better, removing all singles and all songs performed live. However I don't think many songs would be left! :laugh:

:cool:

[mylittledemon]

Warm Ways - 6

Over My Head - 8

Sugar Daddy -5

World Turning - 8

I'm So Afraid - 8

Blue Letter - 7

Crystal - 6

Landslide - 7

[michelej1]

Warm Ways - 2

Over My Head - 10

Sugar Daddy - 2

World Turning - 7

I'm So Afraid - 9

Blue Letter - 8

Crystal - 9

Landslide - 9

[tilthefirefades]

Warm Ways-1

Over My Head-7

Sugar Daddy-6

World Turning-8

I'm So Afraid-7

Blue Letter-9

Crystal-10

Landslide-10

[elle]

Warm Ways - 3

Over My Head - 0

Sugar Daddy -3

World Turning - 10

I'm So Afraid - 10

Blue Letter - 6

Crystal - 5

Landslide - 0


I'm giving OMH and Landslide 0, b/c i cannot vote for them as non-hits.

[Blueletter18]

Warm Ways - 4

Over My Head - 5

Sugar Daddy -2

World Turning - 8

I'm So Afraid - 10

Blue Letter - 9 (the BN live version = my absolute favorite song)

Crystal - 9

Landslide - 10

[McTrouble]

Warm Ways - 2

Over My Head - 3

Sugar Daddy - 0

World Turning - 10

I'm So Afraid - 10

Blue Letter - 6

Crystal - 9

Landslide - 9

[vivfox]

Warm Ways - 10

Over My Head - 10

Sugar Daddy - 10

World Turning - 10

I'm So Afraid - 10

Blue Letter - 10

Crystal - 10

Landslide - 10


PERFECT SCORE!!!!!!!

[TrueFaith77]

Shouldn't non-hits be the those that were not released as singles?

[Silver Springs]

Warm Ways - 2 1/2
Over My Head - 5
Sugar Daddy - 7
World Turning - 8
I'm So Afraid - 10
Blue Letter - 10
Crystal - 8
Landslide - 6

[bangdrum]

Warm Ways - 4
Over My Head - 6
Sugar Daddy - 8
World Turning - 10
I'm So Afraid - 9
Blue Letter - 10
Crystal - 9
Landslide - 7

[GoldDustBoy]

Warm Ways - 5

Over My Head - 8

Sugar Daddy - 3

World Turning - 10

I'm So Afraid - 8

Blue Letter - 5

Crystal - 9

Landslide -10

[windbecame]

Warm Ways 5
Over My Head 8
Sugar Daddy 0
World Turning 9
Im So Afraid 10
Blue Letter 9
Crystal 8
Landslide 10

[HomerMcvie]

Warm Ways - 2

Over My Head - WAS a hit, and shouldn't be on this list. Monday Morning wasn't a hit!

Sugar Daddy - 10

World Turning - 9

I'm So Afraid - 6

Blue Letter - 7

Crystal - 3

Landslide - 8

[MacShadowsBall]

I suppose we could remove Over My Head from the non-hits list and add Monday Morning. As far as Landslide goes, it wasn't a single unto the Dance. We have to have consistency through the contest, whatever we decide what that it.

As I said earlier removing the songs that won the most votes as favorites in 2010 seems balanced. If we aren't concerned with a proper balance of songs per vocalist, then there would be no point in breaking the songs down by vocalist. :cool:

[mylittledemon]

As far as Landslide goes, it wasn't a single unto the Dance.

The 75 version still got a lot of radio play... I remember hearing it quite often growing up. :shrug:

[vivfox]

The 75 version(of Landslide) still got a lot of radio play... I remember hearing it quite often growing up. :shrug:

True. But it wasn't a "single" until 1997, and that was the live version.

[mylittledemon]

Oh yeah, definitely not a single... But I thought we were rating "non-hits" and not singles? ;)

[aleuzzi]

Warm Ways - 10

Over My Head - 10

Sugar Daddy - 10

World Turning - 10

I'm So Afraid - 10

Blue Letter - 10

Crystal - 10

Landslide - 10


PERFECT SCORE!!!!!!!

Precisely!

[vivfox]

Oh yeah, definitely not a single... But I thought we were rating "non-hits" and not singles? ;)


I honestly don't know WTF is going on here.

[MacShadowsBall]

I honestly don't know WTF is going on here.

:laugh: :lol: This sums up my whole day!

I think everybody is trying to figure out what is a "hit" and what is a "non-hit".

[WildHearted]

I think we should remove any song that charted (and add back in any ones that didn't).

If it didn't chart, it wasn't a "hit," so to speak. Get my drift?

And I think an exception should be made for Landslide, due to it's glaring popularity and the fact that other versions of the song have charted...

[elle]

I think we should remove any song that charted (and add back in any ones that didn't).

If it didn't chart, it wasn't a "hit," so to speak. Get my drift?

And I think an exception should be made for Landslide, due to it's glaring popularity and the fact that other versions of the song have charted...

agree with that, and this is what wikipedia page i posted earlier says about [other versions of] Landslide charting:

""Landslide" was eventually released as a single in the USA in 1998 after it became one of the most popular tracks from the live reunion album The Dance. It reached #51 on the Billboard Hot 100.[11] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac_(1975_album)

[MikeInNV]

Yes, I really think we need a do-over. No offense MSB, but I would hate to spend the next 3 months trying to determine the favorite Fleetwood Mac non-hit, only to find out it's "Dreams" LOL.

[MacShadowsBall]

I think we should remove any song that charted (and add back in any ones that didn't).

If it didn't chart, it wasn't a "hit," so to speak. Get my drift?

And I think an exception should be made for Landslide, due to it's glaring popularity and the fact that other versions of the song have charted...

Well according to Fleetwood Mac's discography wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac_discography, the 3 songs(singles) that charted are Over My Head, Say You Love Me, and Rhiannon. So yeah we can remove those three and keep the rest.

I understand about Landslide being a hit 20 years later, but we start to enter a slippery-slope is we discredit more that just the charting songs as non-hits.

Also Lindsey only really had 3 charting hits so this contest would be extremely filled with Lindsey songs. Nevermind the headache Rumours will have as The Chain and Gold Dust Woman weren't charted "hits" while Dreams and Don't Stop were yet they are not much of anybody's favorites here.

~~~~I want everybody's opinions about this as I make a final decision tomorrow.

[mylittledemon]

I honestly don't know WTF is going on here.

LOL, I was kinda referring to MacShadows comment (post 21) that we weren't really talking about singles, but rather non-hits.

[KarmaContestant]

Warm Ways - 6

Over My Head - 8

Sugar Daddy - 10

World Turning - 10

I'm So Afraid - 9

Blue Letter - 6

Crystal - 6

Landslide - 10

[holidayroad]

Warm Ways 5
I liked it more when I was younger. Maybe I've just listened to it for too long.

Over My Head 5
A good song, I like it better than SYLM.

Sugar Daddy 6
Peppy. A good idea for a song. It's good to see Chris having fun with it.

World Turning 5
The first part is great. The non vocal part is Way too long.

I'm So Afraid 8
A powerful, emotional song. In the past, Lindsey has not always been the best at lyric writing, but he nailed it with this song.

Blue Letter 6
Good song with good energy

Crystal 8
Beautifully written song made even more beautiful by Lindsey's wonderful vocal.

Landslide 5
Another song I liked better when I was younger. It's been overdone in the last few years.

[jcalzaretta]

Warm Ways - 4

Over My Head - 10

Sugar Daddy - 2

World Turning - 9

I'm So Afraid - 9

Blue Letter - 6

Crystal - 9

Landslide - 10

[CADreaming]

agree with that, and this is what wikipedia page i posted earlier says about [other versions of] Landslide charting:

""Landslide" was eventually released as a single in the USA in 1998 after it became one of the most popular tracks from the live reunion album The Dance. It reached #51 on the Billboard Hot 100.[11] "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac_(1975_album)

The '75 version was not released as a single. Listen to the two versions back to back - so different. If we're going by album then the '75 version would not be constituted as a hit. Same thing with Silver Springs -- it was technically released as the B side of GYOW but wasn't a hit until The Dance.

I think a hit is anything that was released as a single and charted high. You can't call something a hit that only charted below the Top 20, unless we're just going by fan favorites and we're all so biased here... lol

[ButterCookie]

Warm Ways - 8

Over My Head - 9

Sugar Daddy -10

World Turning - 7

I'm So Afraid - 4

Blue Letter - 7

Crystal - 5

Landslide - 7

[MacShadowsBall]

The '75 version was not released as a single. Listen to the two versions back to back - so different. If we're going by album then the '75 version would not be constituted as a hit. Same thing with Silver Springs -- it was technically released as the B side of GYOW but wasn't a hit until The Dance.

Yes we're definitely going by the original album versions and nothing more. So yeah 3 hit singles and Landslide was not one of them. Good point made about Silver Springs. We aren't judging any live versions. Choice C was for favorite live performance yet it only received 6 votes. People want to do live versions then they should have voted for that option. :)

I think a hit is anything that was released as a single and charted high. You can't call something a hit that only charted below the Top 20, unless we're just going by fan favorites and we're all so biased here... lol

Sounds perfect to me. We can remove the top 20 singles and nothing more.

'75 Fleetwood Mac - Over My Head, Rhiannon, Say You Love Me

Rumours - Go Your Own Way, Don't Stop, Dreams, You Make Loving Fun

Tusk - Tusk, Sara, Think About Me

Mirage - Hold Me, Gypsy

Tango in the Night - Big Love, Seven Wonders, Little Lies, Everywhere

Save Me from Behind the Mask were their only Post-Rumours hit, while no other post Dance songs fit the criteria as a album hit. :cool:

[HomerMcvie]

Mirage - Hold Me, Gypsy


I had to double check you for Love in Store, but it peaked at 22.:(
:laugh:

[MacShadowsBall]

I had to double check you for Love in Store, but it peaked at 22.:(
:laugh:

Yeah, it'll be non-hit. What about "Oh Diane"? It was hit overseas but not here in America. :shrug:

[CADreaming]

Yeah, it'll be non-hit. What about "Oh Diane"? It was hit overseas but not here in America. :shrug:

Oh that's a good point didn't consider UK charts. If it wasn't a US hit then it still is a "non hit" by default -FM was technically a US band for this era.

[McTrouble]

Oh that's a good point didn't consider UK charts. If it wasn't a US hit then it still is a "non hit" by default -FM was technically a US band for this era.

I can't really agree with this - they were huge over here and 3 out of the 5 of them Brits! :lol:

[CADreaming]

I can't really agree with this - they were huge over here and 3 out of the 5 of them Brits! :lol:

But they were based out of LA since what-'72? and the two front people were Americans, no disrespect intended to their roots or the UK fans. Just putting in my thoughts for the contest...

[McTrouble]

But they were based out of LA since what-'72? and the two front people were Americans, no disrespect intended to their roots or the UK fans. Just putting in my thoughts for the contest...

Oh - do we over here still have a right to take part then? ;):p:D

[Silver Springs]

But they were based out of LA since what-'72? and the two front people were Americans, no disrespect intended to their roots or the UK fans. Just putting in my thoughts for the contest...

It doesn't matter where they were based. Their roots were British. You can't escape your roots, so of course they were still heavily influenced by them. They're "managed" by an Englishman, had an English front lady and writer until '97 and have an English base player. They were always by a majority a UK band. Even now, they're half a UK band. You can't just discount it completely and say they're not a UK band, because that's not strictly true.

[HomerMcvie]

But they were based out of LA since what-'72?

I believe it was either late 73, or early 74. Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't MTM recorded in England, with the Rolling Stone's mobile unit(did I dream that?).

[CADreaming]

Oh - do we over here still have a right to take part then? ;):p:D


Silly goose! :nod:

It doesn't matter where they were based. Their roots were British. You can't escape your roots, so of course they were still heavily influenced by them. They're "managed" by an Englishman, had an English front lady and writer until '97 and have an English base player. They were always by a majority a UK band. Even now, they're half a UK band. You can't just discount it completely and say they're not a UK band, because that's not strictly true.


Well, I said "technically" -- maybe I should have said "technically a UK band"... I still think a home base matters. What if a band is all American but is only successful overseas and doesn't even have released material in their home country?

It's not quite as cut and dried in this scenario. I would have described FM at the time as being a "former British blues band, now based out of the US". In fact, I would have thought their home turf would have sort of disowned them during their California transition and especially during the early release of FM the white album? Not discounting their roots at all though - maybe we would be safer to call them a British/American band... :)

[McTrouble]

Silly goose! :nod:



Well, I said "technically" -- maybe I should have said "technically a UK band"... I still think a home base matters. What if a band is all American but is only successful overseas and doesn't even have released material in their home country?

It's not quite as cut and dried in this scenario. I would have described FM at the time as being a "former British blues band, now based out of the US". In fact, I would have thought their home turf would have sort of disowned them during their California transition and especially during the early release of FM the white album? Not discounting their roots at all though - maybe we would be safer to call them a British/American band... :)

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: at the "silly goose"!!!

I wholeheartedly agree with that description - actually, this is how they have always been referred to here in England since the Fab 5 lineup! :thumbsup:

[MikeInNV]

I think a hit is anything that was released as a single and charted high. You can't call something a hit that only charted below the Top 20, unless we're just going by fan favorites and we're all so biased here... lol

Save Me from Behind the Mask were their only Post-Rumours hit, while no other post Dance songs fit the criteria as a album hit. :cool:

I think we've found a solution that works, so I'm not posting this to muddy the waters, BUT....

it's funny how hard it is to define a hit. While "Landslide" from The Dance only charted at #51, you really have to take into account how much radio had changed in the 10 years preceding. There is no way that song wasn't a hit. It was played to death on several station in my area, and fifteen years later, I still hear it on the radio a couple times a month. On the other hand, I almost never hear "Hold Me" anymore, and I don't think I've heard "Big Love" since it dropped off the charts in 1987.

Once again, I'm not suggesting we change anything....I just think it's funny how you can never be sure what will be an enduring "hit."

[CADreaming]

I think we've found a solution that works, so I'm not posting this to muddy the waters, BUT....

it's funny how hard it is to define a hit. While "Landslide" from The Dance only charted at #51, you really have to take into account how much radio had changed in the 10 years preceding. There is no way that song wasn't a hit. It was played to death on several station in my area, and fifteen years later, I still hear it on the radio a couple times a month. On the other hand, I almost never hear "Hold Me" anymore, and I don't think I've heard "Big Love" since it dropped off the charts in 1987.

Once again, I'm not suggesting we change anything....I just think it's funny how you can never be sure what will be an enduring "hit."

You make a very good point. I think there are definite "regional" hits that may be very popular with that area's audience but not enough to make a difference on the charts. Buckingham Nicks could have probably been called a "hit" in the Birmingham, AL area but was a bomb nationally. I also heard The Dance version of "Landslide" played a lot on my local stations.

[MikeInNV]

You make a very good point. I think there are definite "regional" hits that may be very popular with that area's audience but not enough to make a difference on the charts. Buckingham Nicks could have probably been called a "hit" in the Birmingham, AL area but was a bomb nationally. I also heard The Dance version of "Landslide" played a lot on my local stations.

I hear you, but I think "Landslide" was pretty big almost everywhere. Years ago, Billboard's Top 40 was simply the 40 most popular songs in America, but eventually "Top 40" became its own genre, and those stations didn't play songs by a band as old as Fleetwood Mac. The "Landslide" video was on VH-1 all the time. Does anyone have any info on how it did on the AC charts?

[CADreaming]

I hear you, but I think "Landslide" was pretty big almost everywhere. Years ago, Billboard's Top 40 was simply the 40 most popular songs in America, but eventually "Top 40" became its own genre, and those stations didn't play songs by a band as old as Fleetwood Mac. The "Landslide" video was on VH-1 all the time. Does anyone have any info on how it did on the AC charts?

Oh, I was just going by your comment about #51 position. I didn't know how well it did overall.

Looked it up -- "Landslide" charted at #10 on the AC chart in 1998.

[Hawkeye]

Sounds perfect to me. We can remove the top 20 singles and nothing more.

'75 Fleetwood Mac - Over My Head, Rhiannon, Say You Love Me

Rumours - Go Your Own Way, Don't Stop, Dreams, You Make Loving Fun

Tusk - Tusk, Sara, Think About Me

Mirage - Hold Me, Gypsy

Tango in the Night - Big Love, Seven Wonders, Little Lies, Everywhere

Save Me from Behind the Mask were their only Post-Rumours hit, while no other post Dance songs fit the criteria as a album hit. :cool:


I propose we make only 3 exceptions: Landslide, Gold Dust woman, and the chain. Landslide is arguable the most reconizable and well know song in this bands history. forget if the band didn't make it a single, the world has made it a single The same goes for the other 2. I hear GDW on the radio as much if not more then her singles.

Now I realize you can say back, Oh where do you draw the line. Second Hand News and World turning are quite well known, get some decent play still. what about So Afraid being such the concert staple. And you'd be right that could make things less black and white,but those 3 are really ina league of their own. lets keep your clear cut rules of top 20 singles only excluded plus those 3.

I dont want to be difficult but Id just have to question the validity of this game with Landslide, GDW and The Chain being considered non hits.

[Fireflies]

It doesn't matter where they were based. Their roots were British. You can't escape your roots, so of course they were still heavily influenced by them. They're "managed" by an Englishman, had an English front lady and writer until '97 and have an English base player. They were always by a majority a UK band. Even now, they're half a UK band. You can't just discount it completely and say they're not a UK band, because that's not strictly true.



let me restate that Dee used the term "era". they were certainly more successful/known in the US from 1981-1985. she wasn't discounting their "heritage", just that they were certainly an "american" band during that period of time.

even your subconscious agrees: "Their roots were British." ;)

[CADreaming]

let me restate that Dee used the term "era". they were certainly more successful/known in the US from 1981-1985. she wasn't discounting their "heritage", just that they were certainly an "american" band during that period of time.



Thanks, Fireflies. :xoxo:

[elle]

FM are British/American band. they have been since BN joined (i guess before that they were British band with Bob Welch).

the fact that they were / are based out of the US for a number of years now doesn't make them less British. a number of solo musicians or bands were based out of the US throughout the years but were still considered British musicians... Bowie was based in the UK, Germany, US... what about Lennon? the Stones?

[elle]

I propose we make only 3 exceptions: Landslide, Gold Dust woman, and the chain. Landslide is arguable the most reconizable and well know song in this bands history. forget if the band didn't make it a single, the world has made it a single The same goes for the other 2. I hear GDW on the radio as much if not more then her singles.

Now I realize you can say back, Oh where do you draw the line. Second Hand News and World turning are quite well known, get some decent play still. what about So Afraid being such the concert staple. And you'd be right that could make things less black and white,but those 3 are really ina league of their own. lets keep your clear cut rules of top 20 singles only excluded plus those 3.

I dont want to be difficult but Id just have to question the validity of this game with Landslide, GDW and The Chain being considered non hits.

i'm completely with you. except i might draw the line / vote a bit differently on the songs you mentioned (bolded) above (hey maybe we need a poll on whether these songs should be included as non-hits?! :lol:).

based on the hit status and extensive radio and tv play in the last 20 or so years, plus the amount of money they made, i completely agree with you that Landslide and The Chain are hits and should not be included in the non-hits game.

GDW seems to have similar status to SHN - both have reached somewhat of a cult and hit status in the last 20 or so years. SHN is a huge staple on some of the classic rock stations. so i would say if you are excluding GDW as a hit, then you need to exclude SHN as well.

I have never heard World Turning or So Afraid on the radio, or used in the tv commercials, or as a background music on tv programs. these 2 songs are staples of Mac live shows (and ISA of LB live shows), but outside of the concert arena, these are not huge songs. so World Turning and So Afraid can safely count as non-hits.

going down the line, i would say that Peacekeeper and Say You Will were minor hits, and definitely played on the radio. so those 2 should also not be in the running for a favorite non-hit, imo.

just my 0.02.

[CADreaming]

It doesn't make sense to ignore the charts and call all fan dictated hits legitimate "hits". There has to be some standard to go by and single release/chart status is the most logical.

I would be curious to know how many singles were released in the UK vs. US. And Bob Welch is from California and was the first to infuse CA pop into FM's blues sound, so the Americanization actually began then.

[elle]

And Bob Welch is from California and was the first to infuse CA pop into FM's blues sound, so the Americanization actually began then.

yup, that's what i just said. :wavey:

[elle]

It doesn't make sense to ignore the charts and call all fan dictated hits legitimate "hits". There has to be some standard to go by and single release/chart status is the most logical.

exactly!! and that was the problem with what MSB was first proposing - to call "hits" all songs that were voted as favorites by fans on The Ledge in his previous polls.

Monday Morning was never a hit, whether or not it was voted a fan favorite. but i can argue that SHN was / is a hit - it is definitely a staple of several classic rock stations which in general (and unfortunately) play only classic rock hits.

[vivfox]

SHN was / is a hit - it is definitely a staple of several classic rock stations which in general (and unfortunately) play only classic rock hits.


It is a hit song but it was never a single so therefore it isn't a hit, according to the rules of this poll.

[elle]

It is a hit song but it was never a single so therefore it isn't a hit, according to the rules of this poll.

but we are just trying to make up the rules of this poll! :) :woohoo: - so i agree with you - it's a hit song.

[CADreaming]

yup, that's what i just said. :wavey:

No you said they were still a British band with Bob Welch. Are Lindsey and Stevie more American? Lol ;)

[CADreaming]

It is a hit song but it was never a single so therefore it isn't a hit, according to the rules of this poll.

How is a song considered a hit if it was never released as a single? :confused:

[elle]

No you said they were still a British band with Bob Welch. Are Lindsey and Stevie more American? Lol ;)

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: nope, that's not the point. at least for my mathematical brain 3 / 1 is not equal 3 / 2. :shrug:

but you are right there is always some gray zone. :)

[vivfox]

How is a song considered a hit if it was never released as a single? :confused:


I think I'll let Elle answer that one.

[elle]

How is a song considered a hit if it was never released as a single? :confused:

agree with your confusion - that's the point we can debate and decide how to go forward. or not:laugh:. how is MM a hit when it was never released as a single either (according to the original rules MCB was proposing)?

what we tossed around so far was:


whether hit is everything released as a single (i think the answer is no - DYMM was NOT a hit:laugh:).
everything that was hit single worldwide - or are we being just US-centric (my vote would be worldwide, also considering the composition of the board members).
everything that had a lot of radio play (as some things do not even get released as hard copy singles anymore anyway).
everything that was voted as a hit in previous MSB polls (through these discussions we kinda rejected that since we didn't want to end up with Landslide as a favorite non-hit:laugh:).


anything i'm forgetting? maybe it really would be helpful to have a pre-poll and vote on these options to figure out how to structure a non-hit poll?

[elle]

I think I'll let Elle answer that one.

:laugh: :xoxo:

[HomerMcvie]

Monday Morning was never a hit, whether or not it was voted a fan favorite. but i can argue that SHN was / is a hit - it is definitely a staple of several classic rock stations which in general (and unfortunately) play only classic rock hits.

Yeah, I never understood why MM was left off of the list????? And Over My Head was a BIG hit, and should never have made the list.:confused::confused::confused:

[MacShadowsBall]

I'm reading and following the posts trying to decide what to do. :cool:

[CADreaming]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:nope, that's not the point. at least for my mathematical brain 3 / 1 is not equal 3 / 2. :shrug:

but you are right there is always some gray zone. :)

Well, indeed.

I think I'll let Elle answer that one.

Oh goodie! :)

agree with your confusion - that's the point we can debate and decide how to go forward. or not:laugh:. how is MM a hit when it was never released as a single either (according to the original rules MCB was proposing)?

what we tossed around so far was:


whether hit is everything released as a single (i think the answer is no - DYMM was NOT a hit:laugh:).
everything that was hit single worldwide - or are we being just US-centric (my vote would be worldwide, also considering the composition of the board members).
everything that had a lot of radio play (as some things do not even get released as hard copy singles anymore anyway).
everything that was voted as a hit in previous MSB polls (through these discussions we kinda rejected that since we didn't want to end up with Landslide as a favorite non-hit:laugh:).


anything i'm forgetting? maybe it really would be helpful to have a pre-poll
and vote on these options to figure out how to structure a non-hit poll?

Thanks. I think it's fair to consider a song a hit if it was released and charted as a single on both the US and UK charts in the Top 20.

[elle]

charted as a single on both the US and UK charts in the Top 20.

you bring up another good point that i forgot to list above -


how high does the song need to chart in order to be considered a hit? and another question to follow up - on which chart? general billboard, specific chart like adult contemporary, etc?


Holiday Road is arguably lindsey's biggest solo hit (you may argue it's Trouble, and LB might agree with you judging by his solo setlist - but what does he know :laugh:) but it's highest chart position was what - 80-something?

maybe we should look at their current itunes and amazon rankings? most popular FM songs? (highest numbers of youtube views? :shrug:)... you know, enter 21st century maybe...:angel:

[MacShadowsBall]

maybe we should look at their current itunes and amazon rankings? most popular FM songs? (highest numbers of youtube views? :shrug:)... you know, enter 21st century maybe...:angel:

...which was why I was going by the songs that scored the most votes during the 2010 contest, ya know the favorite songs as voted on by the Ledgie in the Favorite Fleetwood Mac Song of All-Time contest. :xoxo:

[elle]

...which was why I was going by the songs that scored the most votes during the 2010 contest, ya know the favorite songs as voted on by the Ledgie in the Favorite Fleetwood Mac Song of All-Time contest. :xoxo:

i know... but going by the FM fan board votes is not as objective (and obviously it's hard to define objective!:laugh:) as going by the general public - which would be itunes or amazon most popular lists. although i'm sure those lists would introduce additional questions - but maybe it's worth checking them out?

and i think i need to take part of the blame here. i think MSB was trying to make happy several of us who said we will not participate if songwriters were pitted against each other. so he was trying to make sure each songwriter has the same number of songs to start with so we can vote by songwriter first. but obviously that doesn't really work, at least not if going by the album.:shrug:

MSB you can correct me if i'm wrong - but if i'm right i thank you for the consideration - and i'm sorry we made it harder for you... :sorry::xoxo:

[HejiraNYC]

Okay, I can appreciate the intent of this thread, but the details can be debated ad infinitum. It really should be retitled "Best FM Deep Cuts." True, many FM singles were never hits, but the intention was there to try and make it a hit (otherwise they would have never released it). As such, a deep cut is:

1. A song that was never released as a commercial or radio single in the U.S. or UK. Pretty straightforward.

2. A song that was never covered and commercially released by another artist on a major label. Tribute albums are excepted.

3. A song that was never in regular rotation on the radio. So if you heard it on the radio once, it could still be a "deep cut." If you heard it on the radio ten times, not so much. This one is harder to quantify, but still meaningful if based on decent anecdotal data.

4. Bonus tracks on deluxe reissues do not count. Deluxe first editions and B-sides count.

5. It can include songs that are/were played regularly in concert.

From the White Album I would propose:
-Blue Letter
-Sugar Daddy
-Warm Ways
-Crystal
-I'm So Afraid

From Rumours I would propose:
-Never Going Back Again
-Oh Daddy

From Tusk I would propose:
-The Ledge
-Save Me a Place
-That's all for Everyone
-Storms
-Not that Funny
-That's Enough for Me
-Walk a Thin Line
-Never Make Me Cry
-Honey Hi
-Never Forget
-Angel
-Over and Over
-Beautiful Child

From Fleetwood Mac Live I would propose:
-One More Night

From Mirage I would propose:
-Can't Go Back
-That's Alright
-Only Over You
-Empire State
-Book of Love
-Wish You Were Here
-Eyes of the World
-Cool Water

From Tang in the Night I would propose:
-Caroline
-Tango in the Night
-Mystified
-Welcome to the Room... Sara
-When I See You Again
-Down Endless Street
-Ricky
-Book of Miracles
-You and I Part I
-You and I Part II

From The Chain I would propose
-Heart of Stone
-Make Me a Mask
-Goodbye Angel

From The Dance I would propose:
-Sweet Girl
-My Little Demon
-Bleed to Love Her
-Illume
-Red Rover

And optionally... from Say You Will I would propose:
-What's the World Coming To
-Murrow
-Miranda
-Come
-Smile at You
-Running Through the Garden
-Red Rover
-Silver Girl
-Bleed to Love Her
-Everybody Finds Out
-Destiny Rules
-Say Goodbye
-Goodbye Baby
-Love Minus Zero
-Not Make Believe

[MacShadowsBall]

I appreciate everybody's opinions on this matter. I'll make a final final decision tonight. :)

[MacShadowsBall]

Question: How concerned are we about keeping the number of songs per vocalists relatively even?

[CADreaming]

Question: How concerned are we about keeping the number of songs per vocalists relatively even?

I personally think it shouldn't matter. Whatever is defined as a non hit per album should be included.

[MacShadowsBall]

I personally think it shouldn't matter. Whatever is defined as a non hit per album should be included.

So one main poll per album, whatever those songs end up being!:D

[elle]

Okay, I can appreciate the intent of this thread, but the details can be debated ad infinitum. It really should be retitled "Best FM Deep Cuts."

ha, you had to come in here and spoil all our endless fun?! :distress: :laugh:

that said, and even though i see the intention of this thread, as well as the polls, as to just have some fun, i do agree with your criteria and like the list you propose. :nod:

MSB - how about Hejira's list or something close to it? which would mean disregard "per album" and "per vocalist" b/c if you try to do that it's obvious we'll never agree.

guess you can just go down Hejira's list, add if you think he forgot something, add to it, and group songs by 10 into each poll or something close to that number, by whatever rule you feel by grouping them?

[vivfox]

From Rumours I would propose:
-Never Going Back Again
-Oh Daddy

From Tusk I would propose:
-The Ledge
-Save Me a Place
-That's all for Everyone
-Storms
-Not that Funny
-That's Enough for Me
-Walk a Thin Line
-Never Make Me Cry
-Honey Hi
-Never Forget
-Angel
-Over and Over
-Beautiful Child


From Mirage I would propose:
-Can't Go Back
-That's Alright
-Only Over You
-Empire State
-Book of Love
-Wish You Were Here
-Eyes of the World
-Cool Water

From Tang in the Night I would propose:


From The Dance I would propose:
-Sweet Girl
-My Little Demon
-Bleed to Love Her
-Illume
-Red Rover


From Rumours you forgot:
I Don't Want To Know

From TUSK you forgot:
What Makes You Think You're The One
Brown Eyes
I Know I'm Not Wrong
Sister's Of The Moon(because even tho it was a single it didn't crack the top 20)

From Mirage you forgot:
Straight Back

I didn't know Illume and Red Rover were on The Dance?

While I'm at it, did you enjoy drinking your Tang in the night? Mine was delicious. Orange flavored.:lol:

[HomerMcvie]

Question: How concerned are we about keeping the number of songs per vocalists relatively even?
Is this so Stevie's fawning fanbase can make her #1?:mad: