new FM album - options?

[elle]

in one of the LB forum threads, we started discussing preferences for the way new FM album could be put together - if there ever is one!:laugh: most people wholeheartedly agree that the album should be built with all participating FM members - especially two songwriters - working on it together from the ground up (with the outside producer).

which means no stitching together songs that were prerecorded / almost done, like it was the case for SYW (and lindsey's GOS 2008).

we also discussed whether some of the SYW songs would have been better if they were deconstructed and rebuilt as mac songs (mainly LB's GOS songs). lindsey's songs on SYW already had most of the mac members the way they were originally recorded... alternatively, Peacekeeper and Smile at you were deconstructed and rebuilt and ended up not being nearly as good as originals in the opinion of many. similarly, new version of She Smiled Sweetly that is on SWS, although good, is not nearly as great as the original GOS sessions version was.

the options - obviously - are:

no new FM album at all
new FM album with previously recorded songs stiched together
some new and some old songs but all re-built together
all new songs.


what if we have just the first 3 options?

i mean let's face it, LB still has a number of great recorded songs from GOS sessions that can go on the mac album - and some of them would be more appropriate on a mac album - such as Deep Dense that was originally a song that SN wrote. although i don't really know her catalog, i'm sure SN has a number of songs in similar stages. so they'd probably use some of these old songs on the new album. my understanding is that all SN's songs - old and new - were rebuilt for IYD. and on SWS, every single song was new - except She Smiled Sweetly - and he re-recorded and rebuilt that one to fit with the album. would we want that to happen to Deep Dense????? frankly, i would love to have Deep Dense finally officially out, but i LOVE the bootleg version that we have, and don't think i could like any re-recorded version more. similarly with Gotta Get Away.

[bluefox4000]

SYW nearly killed all My hope. However.......Looking at the first 3 options I think the best option right now is 3. They can mix it up, old songs/new songs. As long as they making an effort to make a MAC ALBUM, and rebuild them as a unit. not solo Lindsey/Solo Stevie mashed up, which.....let's face it, is what we were given on SYW. Number 4 is my ultimate hope though

Just my 2 cents:thumbsup:

Mick

[Neal]

If they were a much youger band, with a dozen more albums left in them I'd go with option #4... but they aren't. :(

That said, I pick #3 simply because we know there are so many great demos out there that deserve to be polished up and officially recorded; hopefully before the sun finally sets on FM.

[louielouie2000]

At this point, I'm honestly not sure there will be another FM studio album. I remember thinking it was an eternity in between The Dance & Say You Will. That was a 6 year gap... Fleetwood Mac's longest slumber at that point. It's now been 9 years since Say You Will, with no recording in sight for the band.

If there were to be another Mac album, it'd pretty much follow in the formula that they always have. The songwriters have always brought partially or fully fleshed out songs to the table, then moulded them into a group effort. Just look back at the history of the band: even classic songs like Rhiannon, Landslide, & Crystal were essentially finished works before Fleetwood Mac ever touched them. Let's not forget Tusk, either... pretty much all of Lindsey's songs were fully realized outside of Fleetwood Mac. Yet Tusk is probably the most revered Mac album amongst fans.

The difference between Tusk and Say You Will was partially Christine offsetting/bridging the often manic ramblings of Stevie & Lindsey, and the fact Tusk had outside producers. Stevie and Lindsey writing songs together and them magically falling into place with the machinations of Mick & John has never happened. Stevie and Lindsey will bring partially or nearly fully finished material to the table if there is to be another Mac album. The key to it's artistic success would be the band finding the right outside producer(s).

[PenguinHead]

Regarding your options, I'd like to think that there will be another Buckingham/Nicks' Fleetwood Mac album. I highly suspect that if they reconvene, they will record a full, proper album of new material (which may include unreleased demos we are already familiar with). I also think that it will have more balance than their previous effort, with the assistance of a hired producer. The comments Lindsey made about that prospect were encouraging.

[TrueFaith77]

I have an idea. It's a mash-up concept. Rather than building songs from the ground up collaboratively, I thought it would be interesting for the delicate songwriters to bring in their never-released songs (demos) (of which we know BOTH have enough for a Mac album)--and mash-up Lindsey tracks with Stevie tracks, maybe even in the "cut up" tradition of the Beats. That way they aren't rehashing old songs (and old feelings), but finding new meaning and connections in already conceived work. Imagine, every song would have Buck and Nicks as co-songwriters. What an interesting way to accentuate overlapping themes, imagery, passions.

I would recommend Richard X be the producer, as he is a mashup god. Though he's best known in dance music, he also has produced guitar based musically, with radically beautiful results (listen to Steve Mason's great BOYS OUTSIDE).

[Street_Dreamer]

If not a completely new album, I'd like to see the band cover itself ie: have members cover songs of other members. It's probably less likely to happen than an completely brand new album but the thought of Bekka Bramlett and Rick Vito covering Why given recent events has me intrigued.

Matt

[MacShadowsBall]

I don't think there will be another Fleetwood Mac album.

With that said, I would enjoy option 3. Both Lindsey and Stevie have unfinished songs/demos (including leftovers from last years solo albums) around that could find a home on a FM album along with newly written songs.

They must have an outside producer. I would like to see other people, i.e former Mac members, solo band members, etc, contributing vocals or instrumentation to a new album. It would make it more "Fleetwood Mac" and less "Buckingham Nicks."

[elle]

I would like to see other people, i.e former Mac members, solo band members, etc, contributing vocals or instrumentation to a new album. It would make it more "Fleetwood Mac" and less "Buckingham Nicks."

interesting thought. how about solo band members co-write some songs? for example, Neale wrote the music for Come. and New Orleans.

although i could argue that FM made Crystal and Blue Letter that used to be performed by BN much better songs... but i guess not everybody would agree with that - and also that was long long time ago.

[MacShadowsBall]

interesting thought. how about solo band members co-write some songs? for example, Neale wrote the music for Come. and New Orleans.

Exactly co-writers would be great too.

How about re-recording previously released songs, but putting a different spin on the songs? For example, Lindsey doing "Dreams" and Stevie doing "Go Your Own Way". Adding of course a tribute-type song for Christine. :cool:

[TrueFaith77]

I think my idea is the best

[seekerj]

I really don't understand what the hell was so bad about Say You Will.

And I really don't understand what the big deal is if songs are already worked on; it's the same people working on them.

IMHO.

[Macfanforever]

I hope something comes out of the woodwork soon.I thought SYW was great.Also at lease it got some radio airplay.Now as we see the results on Stevie's and Lindsey's outings without or dribbles of radio airplay.They will be recording a new album just for us fans.Not for radio.Now as noted already Stevie and Lindsey will be wrapping up things on their solo cd's.I hope they will get back into the studio again.The work would be good for Stevie too.

[On Ice]

I'm going with #3, it's the way of the mac and I think has worked reasonably well. The main thing I want to see is the creative juices we saw on SWS and IYD from both of them. Who would have thought they would do some of their best music ever in their mid-60's? I'd like to hear a full band sound on the next record, with some of that Tusk type beauty thrown in as I don't think the band has fully expanded on a tusk type direction. It would be wonderful to see them go out in style with a truly good album with creative input from all, but an outside producer to keep Lindsey in check :nod:

[KarmaContestant]

I really don't understand what the hell was so bad about Say You Will.

And I really don't understand what the big deal is if songs are already worked on; it's the same people working on them.

IMHO.

No...not really. Have you heard the Gypsy outtake from Bella Donna? Well -imagine if Stevie had just brought that track to the Mirage sessions and the band had just played it back the same way - It would have been a totally different song - nothing like the Gypsy that we ended up getting.

Instead, Lindsey was allowed to rebuild that track and the end result is a song that only vaguely resembles the original, but is far superior in every conceivable way.

[Artemis]

No...not really. Have you heard the Gypsy outtake from Bella Donna? Well -imagine if Stevie had just brought that track to the Mirage sessions and the band had just played it back the same way - It would have been a totally different song - nothing like the Gypsy that we ended up getting.

Instead, Lindsey was allowed to rebuild that track and the end result is a song that only vaguely resembles the original, but is far superior in every conceivable way.

That's a valid point, but for every song he's made superior, there's a song he's ruined. Just look at Smile At You, for example.

Personally, I don't care what material they use, as long as it ends up sounding like a band album - not just two solo albums on shuffle. They didn't even harmonise on SYW, so much as echo each other.

[elle]

That's a valid point, but for every song he's made superior, there's a song he's ruined. Just look at Smile At You, for example.

maybe now stevie grew more ego and he's not allowed to do to her songs whatever he wants anymore like he used to do in the past? :shrug: seems that when he had free reigns he made almost every song he touched superior (did you all hear Hold Me demo?).

Smile at you is almost the only example that keeps coming up as the song he "ruined", and that was recent. we all saw DR doc - seems like they kept ending up in some kind of half-a** compromise during their work on SYW. and didn't stevie say she sequenced SYW? bad sequencing is one of the problems with that album, imo.


EDIT: although i have to say that LB definitely diminished some of his solo songs that i loved as demos but only like as released songs.

[bluefox4000]

I had heard, (here I think) that she sequenced the album, and was rather proud. If that's True.....Major fail, Stevie. If not, it's still a bad album:lol:

Mick

[elle]

I had heard, (here I think) that she sequenced the album, and was rather proud.

i think she said it in DR doc.

[McTrouble]

I've only one thing to add really - and that's I'd love another album in any shape or form. I actually adore SYW so if we had one final album, and it measured up to this, I would be well content!

[KarmaContestant]

Personally, I don't care what material they use, as long as it ends up sounding like a band album - not just two solo albums on shuffle. They didn't even harmonise on SYW, so much as echo each other.

I pretty much agree with this right here. I'd like another Fleetwood Mac album that sounded like a joint effort instead of a potluck of songs.

[michelej1]

maybe now stevie grew more ego and he's not allowed to do to her songs whatever he wants anymore like he used to do in the past? :shrug: seems that when he had free reigns he made almost every song he touched superior (did you all hear Hold Me demo?).



Although I agree that Lindsey converted Hold Me and it amuses me because it's very feminine and he made it that way, yet he thinks -- anyway, I wouldn't say that he had free reign on any of Christine's songs. Corroborating, taking in input and letting someone do something to your song when you're a musician yourself is different than what he was called upon to do with Stevie's songs.

Aside from that, the "angry" SAY that everyone likes so much might have been FM as well.

Michele

[elle]

anyway, I wouldn't say that he had free reign on any of Christine's songs. Corroborating, taking in input and letting someone do something to your song when you're a musician yourself is different than what he was called upon to do with Stevie's songs.

very much agree, that came out wrong while writing down the stream of conscientiousness. love Christine/Lindsey collaborations - i think they were great together!

[MikeInNV]

I had heard, (here I think) that she sequenced the album, and was rather proud. If that's True.....Major fail, Stevie. If not, it's still a bad album:lol:

Mick

I thought that part of the big fight that ensued with Lindsey while the rest of the band was in Hawaii was that he changed the sequencing. I could swear I remember Stevie making a comment about not liking some of the esoteric tracks like Murrow and Illume being right up there as album openers. (I'm also not sure Stevie's sequence would have only two of her songs among the first six, LOL.)

[TrueFaith77]

i think she said it in DR doc.

no.

their big fight was that Lindsey did the tracklisting for SYW. but that issue is never dealt with at all in the doc.

Stevie credits herself with doing the tracklisting to Rumours.


ETA: And, in my opinion, both Rumours and SYW are brilliantly tracklisted. (That said: SYW should have been a double-CD)

[michelej1]

Yes, the sequencing for SYW was the pits. There's one back-to-back part on that album that they use to induce comas for people who have suffered head injuries.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

Yes, the sequencing for SYW was the pits. There's one back-to-back part on that album that they use to induce comas for people who have suffered head injuries.

Michele

It was just too damned long. It should have been cut down to about 10 songs. They could have made a decent album out of 10 songs.:sorry:


Oh yeah, and had their hitmaker on board for the project.;):p:D

[Macfanforever]

I love SYW.Now almost 10 years later .as time changes Will FM get radio airplay.SYW got great radio airplay.I dont want to see a repeat of zero or little commecial radio response to FM like radio turn their backs to Lindsey and Stevie's latest outings.Try country like the Eagles did .Or Fleetwood Rap Mac.Oh my gawd.

[michelej1]

I am an SYW fan, for the most part. I was in no way disappointed with the effort. I just don't think the way the album is sequenced helps sell it. The way it starts out doesn't set the mood and is not representative of the album as a whole or of what you'd expect from this band. Honestly, I wouldn't want a Lindsey album to start off with WTWCT and Morrow, much less a Fleetwood Mac album!

Then when you get to the deadpoint where Silver Girl follows Running Through the Garden it's like "Oh man, I'm going to need a rosary tout de suite."

Michele

[PenguinHead]

I am an SYW fan, for the most part. I was in no way disappointed with the effort. I just don't think the way the album is sequenced helps sell it. The way it starts out doesn't set the mood and is not representative of the album as a whole or of what you'd expect from this band. Honestly, I wouldn't want a Lindsey album to start off with WTWCT and Morrow, much less a Fleetwood Mac album!

Then when you get to the deadpoint where Silver Girl follows Running Through the Garden it's like "Oh man, I'm going to need a rosary tout de suite."

Michele

I agree with you. The songs aren't presented well in the way they are sequenced. Had they chosen 12 songs, with the rest of songs on a bonus disc/deluxe version, it would have made the album more accessible.

[Matt Lucas]

Hello all---

Personally, I don't care what material they use, as long as it ends up sounding like a band album - not just two solo albums on shuffle. They didn't even harmonise on SYW, so much as echo each other.

For the most part, I think you’re right. But…I was listening to SYW on the way to the office this morning, and I was reminded again how much I love the two-part harmonies on the second verse to “Thrown Down.” Their voices complement each other really well on that tune, and I love the arrangement.

I definitely prefer Lindsey over Stevie or Christine, but I think the thing that makes the band’s music generally better than their solo works is chemistry. Lindsey and Stevie and, to a lesser degree, Christine have made good to great solo tunes. But when they’re in the same room with John and Mick, they all make each other better. It’s as simple as that. Now, maybe that’s not the easiest way to work for all of them, but easy doesn’t necessarily mean best.

I think the band has one more great album left in them. Lindsey and Stevie each made a good solo record last year, so the well isn’t dry from a songwriting standpoint. Mick and John still have the rhythm magic, I think. The key is to get Christine back, though. She was my least favorite of the three singers, but, as much as I prefer Lindsey, I accept now that Christine was the glue that really held the band together. She wrote great songs, she had a sweet, warm voice, and she filled the often-wide gap between Stevie and Lindsey so well.

Hasn’t Lindsey talked about maybe NOT wanting to produce the band next time around?

If that’s not just Lindsey venting, then I’d love to see them work with Rick Rubin. They need someone to get them back to who they really are, and Rubin has a reputation for helping artists rediscover their soul. Look at what he did for Johnny Cash, Tom Petty, and the Dixie Chicks.

In fact, Rubin and Lindsey have most likely worked together before. Lindsey sang some wonderful backing vocals on Petty’s “Walls (Circus),” which was produced by Rubin. If it’s not Lindsey in the producer’s chair, then I hope it will be Rick Rubin.

Check out these quotes:

"I don't even know what a traditional producer is or does," says Rubin, who unlike many other producers doesn't do the hands-on work with sound boards and such. "I feel like the job is like being a coach, building good work habits and building trust. You want to get to a point where you can say anything and talk about anything. There needs to be a real connection. My goal is to just get out of the way and let the people I'm working with be their best.” …

"I try to get the artist to feel like they are writing songs for the ages rather than songs for an album. As they write, they come over and play the songs for me. For some reason, most people will write 10 songs and think, That's enough for a record, I'm done. When they play the songs for me, invariably the last two songs they've written are the best. I'll then say, 'You have two songs, go back and write eight more.' "

You can read the full stories here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/13/AR2006011300414_pf.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/magazine/02rubin.t.html?pagewanted=all

Cheers,
matt

[David]

Mick and John still have the rhythm magic, I think.Mick still does, as evidenced by Stevie's album last year. "Annabel Lee" is Mick's tightest, most in-the-pocket drum track in a loooong time. He scarily sounds like the Mick Fleetwood of 1980. Up till "Annabel Lee," I had thought Mick had lost a lot of his old metronomic perfection. His fills used to sound like firecrackers going off, but in recent years they sounded more & more sluggish--like somebody on nighttime cold medicine. But he's back where he belongs on "Annabel Lee." The exasperating thing is that all the girls named Rhiannon don't even hear it.

[PolishStevieFan]

"Fleetwood Mac performing Great American Songbook" :D Just kidding

[MacShadowsBall]

Mick still does, as evidenced by Stevie's album last year. "Annabel Lee" is Mick's tightest, most in-the-pocket drum track in a loooong time. He scarily sounds like the Mick Fleetwood of 1980. Up till "Annabel Lee," I had thought Mick had lost a lot of his old metronomic perfection. His fills used to sound like firecrackers going off, but in recent years they sounded more & more sluggish--like somebody on nighttime cold medicine. But he's back where he belongs on "Annabel Lee." The exasperating thing is that all the girls named Rhiannon don't even hear it.

I knew there was a reason I loved that song. I had no idea its Mick on those drums, though it now makes since. :cool:

[henryscutter]

I thought that part of the big fight that ensued with Lindsey while the rest of the band was in Hawaii was that he changed the sequencing. I could swear I remember Stevie making a comment about not liking some of the esoteric tracks like Murrow and Illume being right up there as album openers. (I'm also not sure Stevie's sequence would have only two of her songs among the first six, LOL.)

Yes Im pretty sure that is incorrect. The only thing I heard is there was major disagreement over the sequencing, and I believe it was LB who had the final say.

[henryscutter]

No...not really. Have you heard the Gypsy outtake from Bella Donna? Well -imagine if Stevie had just brought that track to the Mirage sessions and the band had just played it back the same way - It would have been a totally different song - nothing like the Gypsy that we ended up getting.

Instead, Lindsey was allowed to rebuild that track and the end result is a song that only vaguely resembles the original, but is far superior in every conceivable way.

The thing about demos is that there are usually many of them so you dont know what stage the song might be in at the time. There are demos of the same song that are very bareboned then some that sound almost like the released version and everything in between. I rather like the demo of Gypsy that is sped up and rocking more than the released version. It was already a great song before it was arranged and produced.

[vivfox]

The thing about demos is that there are usually many of them so you dont know what stage the song might be in at the time. There are demos of the same song that are very bareboned then some that sound almost like the released version and everything in between. I rather like the demo of Gypsy that is sped up and rocking more than the released version. It was already a great song before it was arranged and produced.


I agree with what you said about demos. However, I totally disagree with your opinion of the Gypsy demo. To me that version just makes it a simple, straight forward song. The released version is lush and layred with honey and makes you want to go outside and dance in the rain.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree with what you said about demos. However, I totally disagree with your opinion of the Gypsy demo. To me that version just makes it a simple, straight forward song. The released version is lush and layred with honey and makes you want to go outside and dance in the rain.

haha!! Wherever did you get that image? :thumbsup:

[PolishStevieFan]

[QUOTE=Matt Lucas;1036045]Hello all---



I don't know why so many people hate on "Say You Will". For me it's one of their best albums. Definately their best since "Tusk". I've never cared for Christine McVie, so her absence doesn nothing for me. On the contrary it makes more space for individual talents of Stevie and Lindsay. And having been released on the strength of Nicks' solo effort "Trouble In Shangri-La" this album was indeed very spohisticated and diverse. I don't look for "The Rumours" era magic because it was dead and gone many years ago. What I want for the future is a follow up to "Say You Will" in terms of diversity... Nicks, Buckingham, Fleetwood and McVie are enough to make up timeless record. And considering their latest solo offerings I am full of hope. "In Your Dreams" especially cemented my faith in Nicks' artistry. She hasn't aged a bit and backed up by the band and with right producer she can write some inspiring stuff.

[PenguinHead]

I think my idea is the best

I like your idea too. They have plenty of lingering material to work with.

I think the worst idea is to re-record previously recorded material. There is no point to that. I would rather they progress, not regress and rehash.

[PenguinHead]

[QUOTE=Matt Lucas;1036045]Hello all---



I don't know why so many people hate on "Say You Will". For me it's one of their best albums. Definately their best since "Tusk". I've never cared for Christine McVie, so her absence doesn nothing for me. On the contrary it makes more space for individual talents of Stevie and Lindsay. And having been released on the strength of Nicks' solo effort "Trouble In Shangri-La" this album was indeed very spohisticated and diverse. I don't look for "The Rumours" era magic because it was dead and gone many years ago. What I want for the future is a follow up to "Say You Will" in terms of diversity... Nicks, Buckingham, Fleetwood and McVie are enough to make up timeless record. And considering their latest solo offerings I am full of hope. "In Your Dreams" especially cemented my faith in Nicks' artistry. She hasn't aged a bit and backed up by the band and with right producer she can write some inspiring stuff.

I love Say You Will for what it is. But I think, because of the heavy influence of Lindsey's production style, it has a steely, somewhat cold feel to it. I hope they will, with the assistance of an outsider co-producer, make an album with a warmer, more intimate sound.

[Christopher]

I love Say You Will for what it is. But I think, because of the heavy influence of Lindsey's production style, it has a steely, somewhat cold feel it it. I hope they will, with the assistance of an outsider co-producer, make an album with a warmer, more intimate sound.

Exactly. I really loved SYW when it came out, but firstly I did not care for the way Stevie's vocals were recorded. Whatever process Lindsey used in producing her vocals, she sounded very metallic, even more so than ever. And secondly, the production on the recordings is not warm sounding at all, it's very steely, rigid and cold feeling as PenguinHead rightly points out. I would love to see the gang get together and record another record, but an outside producer alongside the band would be preferable at this point.