30 years later: who killed Natalie Wood?

[Nico]

I wanted to share this here because it interests me. Natalie Wood was, in my opinion, one of the most naturally gorgeous, radiant stars in all of film history. Her tragic death in 1981 had a lot of...mysteries surrounding it.

As I was FAR too young to know all the details, I thought those who were probably old enough at the time would be able to read and share their thoughts.

They are reopening her case, as new mysteries are starting to be uncovered. And as I was reading some of the responses on Daily Mail, a LOT of people seem to think Robert Wagner was responsible.

Here's the article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064353/Natalie-Wood-death-Witness-Marilyn-Wayne-received-chilling-death-threat.html

Here's a pic of Natalie aboard the boat she was last seen alive on. This pic was taken a few weeks before her death:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/21/article-0-0EDA0C5B00000578-715_634x441.jpg

[BTFLCHLD]

Natalie Wood was, in my opinion, one of the most naturally gorgeous, radiant stars in all of film history. agreed. while the moments leading up to her death are speculation to all than those that were with her that night, I am of the belief it was an accident. robert loved her, and I dont care what kind of drunken rage may have ensued, I can't imagine him purposely killing her. Really too may "why would theys" to believe anyone on that boat wanted her to die. I believe that dingy banging on the boat, had her getting up to untie and, in her attempts to quiet that noise, the rope pulled her in or the waves bumped enough for her to lose balance or perhaps knock her completely over. then again, she may have been brave enough and without reasonable thought process to step inside that dingy in attempt to just run away from the situation. sad sad sad. :distress:

gorgeous pic. nico, thanks for posting.

[Nico]

Thanks for the response BTFLCHLD. Natalie was one of my TOP favorites. Absolutely breathtaking lady.

I pretty much had the same exact feeling on the situation as you. However, Natalie's sister seems so sure that Robert Wagner did it. It seems like she really hates him and feels he is hiding stuff.

I don't know.:shrug: RW seems like a cool little old man who had a pretty lovely marriage to her and they loved each other. Plus they have two daughters who are now 41 and 37. It seems like bringing this all up, by the girls' aunt could hurt that family. And no offense but the aunt seems to be far more of a fame-seeker than I would prefer. She even had a book out years ago about her sister and her. Like, it was written not too long after Natalie passed away. :distress:

[wild-heart]

Natalie Wood is one my my favourite actresses of all time. She died way before I was born but i discovered her through my old movie obsession. Only yesterday was I watching splendour in the grass. I think there is much more to her death than is said so I hope the truth finally comes out.

[BTFLCHLD]

Thanks for the response BTFLCHLD. Natalie was one of my TOP favorites. Absolutely breathtaking lady.

I pretty much had the same exact feeling on the situation as you. However, Natalie's sister seems so sure that Robert Wagner did it. It seems like she really hates him and feels he is hiding stuff.

I don't know.:shrug: RW seems like a cool little old man who had a pretty lovely marriage to her and they loved each other. Plus they have two daughters who are now 41 and 37. It seems like bringing this all up, by the girls' aunt could hurt that family. And no offense but the aunt seems to be far more of a fame-seeker than I would prefer. She even had a book out years ago about her sister and her. Like, it was written not too long after Natalie passed away. :distress: Not a fan of Lana. and this boat captain all these years later coming up with a re-hash of his statements? his drinking habits have embellished the stories he puts out. sigh. really, a sad situation.

I find hard to believe there are any new revelations in the case or more concrete details that have been hidden all these years. this idea of people hiding the truth is kind of absurd -- why wouldnt the whole truth and nothing but the truth come out at the time? to me hiding the truth would be unnatural, unless there was something clearly to hide by murderous people. and those on that boat werent murderous. There would be no reason to cover up an accident.

the public often gives Robert and Christopher the virtual stink-eye. but, Natalie was a grown woman, and I doubt she would of stood for either of them sitting at the foot of her bed to insure she was OK for the evening, particularly if a fight transpired. I think any arguing happened between Robert and Christopher. Wouldnt it make sense, if there was a purposeful intent for injury or death, that one of them would be overboard drowing rather than the Natalie they both loved?

if they somehow do have enough evidence of something (which interestingly they dont reveal and have further made statements that 'no one will be arrested') I will personally raise the biggest uproar for reinvestigation of River Phoenix's death! :o

this 'reopening' seems to transpire about every ten years.

[Nico]

Wow, I couldn't agree more with almost everything you said BTFL. Lana, I feel, is quite tacky. I have a lot of sympathy for the daughters, one of which reminds me a lot of Natalie in prettiness and stature. I think it would be so painful to have my mother's death strewn about in the press like it was simply dirty gossip and heresay- 30 years later. That's a hurt that doesn't wash away, particularly for such a loving mother.

I never once thought RW was responsible. I think, if it was so, he would be the greatest actor in the world. Because that man seemed to be very sad and very devoted to his children. I think it's all very fishy, but at the same time I want to read some REAL details and not just here-say.

[gldstwmn]

Here's a link to the complaint that got the case reopened:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/custom/NatWood%20Marti%20Rulli%20PDF%20Redact%20Nov.%202011.pdf

After reading that, I've got to wonder if Robert Wagner pushed her off the boat and let her drown. :(

[Nico]

Here's a link to the complaint that got the case reopened:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/custom/NatWood%20Marti%20Rulli%20PDF%20Redact%20Nov.%202011.pdf

After reading that, I've got to wonder if Robert Wagner pushed her off the boat and let her drown. :(

Wow...that is fascinating to read. I admit I wasn't aware of most of these details. Thank you for sharing! :wavey:

[HejiraNYC]

Here's a link to the complaint that got the case reopened:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/custom/NatWood%20Marti%20Rulli%20PDF%20Redact%20Nov.%202011.pdf

After reading that, I've got to wonder if Robert Wagner pushed her off the boat and let her drown. :(

That is some pretty damning testimony. Unfortunately it's all speculation and circumstance... much like the OJ trial, except there was more evidence in the OJ trial! Of everyone involved, the captain of the boat seems to be the main culprit here. It's precious that he accused the detectives of botching the investigation, yet he pretty much lied shamelessly to curry favor with Robert Wagner. When I first found about Natalie Wood's death, my first gut reaction was that he must have done it. The calculus just wasn't there, even back then.

[gldstwmn]

Wow...that is fascinating to read. I admit I wasn't aware of most of these details. Thank you for sharing! :wavey:

I didn't realize the extent of it either until I read that. I can see why the police are saying they have compelling reasons to reopen the case.
The boat captain looked to me in his tv interview on the Today Show like one of those people who had been haunted by something for a long time. Now whether his memories of that night are clouded by the scotch, wine and quaaludes he says he took is another matter.
I guess the one that gets me is the woman on the other yacht moored not too far away and what she overheard. She has nothing to gain here by coming forward.

[BTFLCHLD]

and it took them 30 years to put together these declarations? :distress:

[markolas]

I've always thought there was something fishy about this case, and yep, that's pretty damning testimony. The woman who heard NW screaming was actually threatened?!

RW may not have pushed her, but it seems pretty obvious that he let her drown, at the very least. Apparently, Christopher Walken has hired an attorney (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-57327953-10391698/christopher-walken-hires-lawyer-over-natalie-wood-investigation/) over the reopening of the investigation.

Anyone who thinks RW's hands are clean is living in a dream world.

[BTFLCHLD]

Anyone who thinks RW's hands are clean is living in a dream world. begezus, pretty compelling stuff. one would think theyd have been on the rooftops yelling on with this stuff. :distress:

[CADreaming]

I've always thought there was something fishy about this case, and yep, that's pretty damning testimony. The woman who heard NW screaming was actually threatened?!

RW may not have pushed her, but it seems pretty obvious that he let her drown, at the very least. Apparently, Christopher Walken has hired an attorney (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-57327953-10391698/christopher-walken-hires-lawyer-over-natalie-wood-investigation/) over the reopening of the investigation.

Anyone who thinks RW's hands are clean is living in a dream world.

Not dreaming -- But no way is RJ responsible for Natalie's death. I think he was probably suspicious of her relationship with Walken, and maybe he had a reason to be. Natalie's death was an accident which occurred due to intoxication.

If anyone is responsible for her death it would be this woman (and her family) who supposedly heard her screaming and didn't bother to search properly or even the boat captain who decided he didn't need to turn on a light despite RJ's alleged comment to wait. Which is absurd. Next, they'll be blaming Stefanie Powers for Bill Holden's death too... :rolleyes: Oh, and the woman was threatened via a drop box. Oooohhh!!! Scary!!! Puhleeze.

I agree though - Why is Walken hiring a lawyer to represent him, 30 years later? That's just beyond curious to me. Something has always creeped me out about that guy....

[Nico]

Ok, I am SO 'over my head' (hey hey!!) over this. What motive would CW have for killing Natalie? I feel like I need to really do some more reading on this. Or was it in one of the articles posted and I skimmed past that part?

RW accusation I can understand I guess. I mean, there seems to be some sort of reason there, but CW I just can't...why?

And you're right CAD. Why did he hire a lawyer?

So much confusion.:confused:

[CADreaming]

^Well, what if Walken was pursuing her or they were having an affair and he tried something with her on the boat and she refused him and they got into an argument after RJ had fallen asleep and/or passed out and she fell or he pushed her and she fell? He could have panicked like when Ted Kennedy let Mary Jo Kopeckne drown...

Why is everyone so quick to believe RJ let her drown? He adored her.

[Nico]

you need to write a novel!! :nod:

No, I haven't ever thought RJ (is that his nickname?) killed her. In fact, I've always rather liked him and thought they were a lovely couple. He seemed like a good husband and a great father and, well, I just don't get the 'killer' vibe from him...but I'm also not privy to all the details. And since I want to be objective while analyzing this, I have to be fair about all the evidence provided.

Frankly, the odd thing to me is that it's all coming out 30 years after the fact.

Also, here's the story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063056/Natalie-Wood-death-Sister-Lana-says-Robert-Wagners-tale-drowned-IMPOSSIBLE.html) about her sister saying RJ is hiding stuff. Check out some of the comments!

[markolas]

Wagner "adored" her? Evidently, they were fighting like cats & dogs the night NW died. As for the couple who heard the screams, they also heard someone say he was going to help her. They called the boat patrol and the sheriff. You seriously think it was their fault instead of...oh, I don't know...the 3 other people who were on the actual boat that she fell/was pushed from?

And yes, I do think it's scary that someone left a note in the woman's inbox saying to shut up if she valued her life.

[CADreaming]

you need to write a novel!! :nod:

No, I haven't ever thought RJ (is that his nickname?) killed her. In fact, I've always rather liked him and thought they were a lovely couple. He seemed like a good husband and a great father and, well, I just don't get the 'killer' vibe from him...but I'm also not privy to all the details. And since I want to be objective while analyzing this, I have to be fair about all the evidence provided.

Frankly, the odd thing to me is that it's all coming out 30 years after the fact.

Also, here's the story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063056/Natalie-Wood-death-Sister-Lana-says-Robert-Wagners-tale-drowned-IMPOSSIBLE.html) about her sister saying RJ is hiding stuff. Check out some of the comments!
LOL about the novel!

Yes, RJ is Robert Wagner's nickname and how he is commonly referred to in Hollywood. I was a huge Hart to Hart fan and remember this fairly well even though I was a kid. It was so wild how Bill Holden (Stefanie Powers' partner died and then a week later Natalie) and they had a hot tv show at the time, Stefanie and RJ. So, anyway...

I've always thought Lana was a little nuts and fame seeking. Look how quick she jumped on this like she's the only authority on Natalie. What about Natalie's daughters? It's just sort of tacky. Thanks for the link. Funny, everyone in Hollywood knew Natalie was afraid of the water - she had that scene in Splendor in the Grass and it freaked her out. So, when did Lana suddenly get her epiphany? This afternoon? Because, what I read this morning she was still on the fence. Now, she's totally blaming RJ! Ugh. And, so the captain didn't call the coastguard because RJ told him not to? What did he do - hold a gun to the guy's head too? I mean, RJ must have been one crazy, busy cold, heartless, calculating dude that night. No way.


Wagner "adored" her? Evidently, they were fighting like cats & dogs the night NW died. As for the couple who heard the screams, they also heard someone say he was going to help her. They called the boat patrol and the sheriff. You seriously think it was their fault instead of...oh, I don't know...the 3 other people who were on the actual boat that she fell/was pushed from?

And yes, I do think it's scary that someone left a note in the woman's inbox saying to shut up if she valued her life.

Yes, he did adore her. It's common knowledge. I don't think he was thrilled about her decision to go back to work but that doesn't mean he didn't adore her and it certainly doesn't mean they didn't fight. Big deal. If you heard screams, I would think you would try to locate where they were coming from if you were truly concerned for someone's life. Obviously, if there were screams and the other 3 people on the boat possibly could have saved her. I'm betting they were all either drunk or passed out, the captain included. The lady couldn't take her note to the police along with her information? She showed it to a lawyer. She must not have been that scared. It took her 30 years to overcome her fear? All those guys are still alive. Maybe she needs to watch her back!

It's funny to me how good of a memory these elderly people developed after 30 years. Usually, the memory goes instead of suddenly recalling pertinent events that could implicate someone in a crime...

[Nico]

Yes, he did adore her. It's common knowledge. I don't think he was thrilled about her decision to go back to work but that doesn't mean he didn't adore her and it certainly doesn't mean they didn't fight. Big deal.

And the thing is, they fought on that night-sure- but what does that mean anyway? Couples fight. No one has a perfect relationship, for goodness sakes. We're on a FLEETWOOD MAC board after all. ;) :lol:

But that means nothing. They could have had an argument and stomped off from each other. She could have drank a little more and then had a terrible accident (which is what I always thought). I'm not ruling out anything, but I refuse to believe that just because there was a fight that RJ definitely killed her.

It's funny to me how good of a memory these elderly people developed after 30 years. Usually, the memory goes instead of suddenly recalling pertinent events that could implicate someone in a crime...

Yes. This is where it gets weird for me as well.

I don't want to dismiss markolas' opinion. I feel like I need to know more. But I just don't buy that because they fought then he had to have pushed her overboard.

And what does Stephanie Powers have to do with this. :shocked: I get more and more confused.

[McTrouble]

Thanks for the response BTFLCHLD. Natalie was one of my TOP favorites. Absolutely breathtaking lady.

I pretty much had the same exact feeling on the situation as you. However, Natalie's sister seems so sure that Robert Wagner did it. It seems like she really hates him and feels he is hiding stuff.

I don't know.:shrug: RW seems like a cool little old man who had a pretty lovely marriage to her and they loved each other. Plus they have two daughters who are now 41 and 37. It seems like bringing this all up, by the girls' aunt could hurt that family. And no offense but the aunt seems to be far more of a fame-seeker than I would prefer. She even had a book out years ago about her sister and her. Like, it was written not too long after Natalie passed away. :distress:

:nod: Natalie has always been one of my top 3 favourite actresses - the other two being Ava Gardner and Ingrid Bergman.

[McTrouble]

RJ and Natalie appear to have had a very tempestuous and passionate love/hate relationship. There also seemed to be a lot of drinking involved. Whatever happened (and we'll probably never know the whole truth), I doubt very much that it was calculated and deliberate. Either a freak accident or a crime of passion?

[Nico]

:nod: Natalie has always been one of my top 3 favourite actresses - the other two being Ava Gardner and Ingrid Bergman.

Gorgeous choices! :nod:

I don't have a formulated list, but I've always adored Natalie, Katherine Hepburn, Vivien Leigh, Rita Hayworth, Carole Lombard, Joan Fontaine, Leslie Caron, Bette Davis and, well, a lot of others I can't think of right now.

[CADreaming]

But that means nothing. They could have had an argument and stomped off from each other. She could have drank a little more and then had a terrible accident (which is what I always thought). I'm not ruling out anything, but I refuse to believe that just because there was a fight that RJ definitely killed her.

I agree it was an accident, but I've never believed that we knew the entire story. I just don't think knowing the details changes the reality of what happened. It was a horrible accident and Natalie died. I never believed she was beyond being saved. But, just because she wasn't doesn't mean that it was intentional or deliberate.

And what does Stephanie Powers have to do with this. :shocked: I get more and more confused.

I was just comparing Stefanie's situation to her co-star's. There were rumours for years that she and RJ were having an affair. I was being tongue in cheek by saying they would drag up Bill Holden's death and blame her for it.

[McTrouble]

Gorgeous choices! :nod:

I don't have a formulated list, but I've always adored Natalie, Katherine Hepburn, Vivien Leigh, Rita Hayworth, Carole Lombard, Joan Fontaine, Leslie Caron, Bette Davis and, well, a lot of others I can't think of right now.

I was named after Vivien Leigh (with the same spelling) - when my Dad came to England from Latvia as a young man, he loved going to the movies and when he first saw a Vivien Leigh film he loved her name, and then I came along, and voila!!!!!!

And Joan Fontaine, well Rebecca has to be one of my all time favourite films. And talking of films in the same genre, what about Merle Oberon in Wuthering Heights - the perfect Cathy!

[BTFLCHLD]

Her final movie "brainstorm" with Walken is kickass -- I recommend it.

[Nico]

I agree it was an accident, but I've never believed that we knew the entire story. I just don't think knowing the details changes the reality of what happened. It was a horrible accident and Natalie died. I never believed she was beyond being saved. But, just because she wasn't doesn't mean that it was intentional or deliberate.

This is all true. I don't know, I have a strange fascination with mysteries I suppose. And being that there are so many who believe one thing and other who believe the other, it sort of pulls me in more. I'm not losing sleep over it. Natalie is gone and nothing that results from this can bring her back. But still...it just sort of interests me. :shrug:


I was just comparing Stefanie's situation to her co-star's. There were rumours for years that she and RJ were having an affair. I was being tongue in cheek by saying they would drag up Bill Holden's death and blame her for it.

Gotcha. ;)

[Nico]

Her final movie "brainstorm" with Walken is kickass -- I recommend it.

Awesome. Never saw it. In fact, I need to go on a Natalie kick...West Side Story and Gypsy will be seen this upcoming weekend.

[Nico]

I was named after Vivien Leigh (with the same spelling) - when my Dad came to England from Latvia as a young man, he loved going to the movies and when he first saw a Vivien Leigh film he loved her name, and then I came along, and voila!!!!!!

Flawless and amazing actress to be named after. Gorgeous name.

And Joan Fontaine, well Rebecca has to be one of my all time favourite films. And talking of films in the same genre, what about Merle Oberon in Wuthering Heights - the perfect Cathy!

Joan is my girl. She's like 90 something now and stunning for her age. Love her as an actress. More than her sister (oh snap!)

WH...ugh, I love it! There are things that never get old for me. Classic films are one of the tops.

[gldstwmn]

Wagner "adored" her? Evidently, they were fighting like cats & dogs the night NW died. As for the couple who heard the screams, they also heard someone say he was going to help her. They called the boat patrol and the sheriff. You seriously think it was their fault instead of...oh, I don't know...the 3 other people who were on the actual boat that she fell/was pushed from?

And yes, I do think it's scary that someone left a note in the woman's inbox saying to shut up if she valued her life.

Another thing that bothers me are the bruises on her body. How did she get those?

[markolas]

Another thing that bothers me are the bruises on her body. How did she get those?

I imagine she and Wagner were engaged in some fisticuffs. I don't think he necessarily pushed her, and I really doubt it was a calculated murder, but I do think Wagner (and probably Walken and the boat captain) knew she fell into the water and did nothing. Maybe she got into the dinghy to leave and fell, and Wagner left her there to "teach her a lesson," as has been suggested; then, when she disappeared, he panicked and held off on calling for help b/c he thought/hoped she would turn up okay and he didn't want there to be a big scene.

[McTrouble]

Flawless and amazing actress to be named after. Gorgeous name.



Joan is my girl. She's like 90 something now and stunning for her age. Love her as an actress. More than her sister (oh snap!)

WH...ugh, I love it! There are things that never get old for me. Classic films are one of the tops.

Oh absolutely! Joan knocks spots off old Olivia every time! :nod:

Going back to Natalie - anyone remember her in "Meteor" with Sean Connery? I think it was very late 70's, she was still a stunner in that too!

[BTFLCHLD]

Another thing that bothers me are the bruises on her body. How did she get those?

HI :wavey:

Do we have an actual autopsy report? I am wondering. I know it has been said there were injuries, I just wonder the extent, location, etc.

They were tied to a boat mooring at the harbor. It is my understanding that the waters were incredibly choppy that night. Catalina is rough with jagged lava walls in some areas along the outer banks of the island (not the beachy avalon part, folks). There is the possibility the bruising, etc was caused by the fall, if hitting a part of the boat in doing so, as well the ebb flow against the rough rocks.

I am totally disturbed by the screaming. paraphrasing...after the cries for help subsided we went to sleep terribly disturbed. If indeed the words those people heard were help me, im drowning...obviously she was overboard, on verge of drowning and crying out to be saved. Horrific. If indeed they heard a grovely voice state 'hold on were coming' (or whatever), they were close enough to rocknroll a way to save her. PATHETIC. I hope they dont sleep a wink EVER. Judgy? You bet your asss.

If it was Robert making that statement of 'holdonwerecoming', he was IMO drunk off his ass and couldnt have saved himself from the toilet bowl. Likely all in slo-mo, and sloppy and the biggest mistake of his life.

[Nico]

Is there a way to know the difference of whether bruises are caused by a fall or by being attacked physically? Please don't laugh at me for asking if it's something obvious. I honestly know nothing about the matters of...body investigating and all that. I just wonder if there was a way to know- and yes I think the screaming is VERY disturbing.

[BTFLCHLD]

body found 200yds off blue cavern point, Isthmus area

http://dornsife.usc.edu/hyperbaric/images/lab.jpg

description: Blue Cavern Point - beautiful wall dive with some sea fans, just east of Two Harbors, with many caves
and caverns in shallow water. Excellent visibility, must be done as a drift dive. Drops down past 130ft deep.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/1nataliewood.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/2nataliewood.jpg

[BTFLCHLD]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DbgPTpgKE_Y/S0iYvlWm29I/AAAAAAAAAbU/hHCAAZZuyew/s640/NATALIE+WOOD+frontal

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DbgPTpgKE_Y/S0iYFDFRiUI/AAAAAAAAAbM/951ybPY5I6c/s640/Natalie+rear

[BTFLCHLD]

It appears the bruising and abrasions are conducive to someone thrashing to save themselves.

[Nico]

Wow. It seems on the diagrams of the body, she had a lot of fresh wounds but there were also some older bruises. I tend to think that the impact of the fall could have caused many of those bruises. I mean, it's fairly turbulent and her body was probably knocked around, poor thing.

Ugh. It's also telling that RJ was honest about it not being suicide. I have to say, if he was guilty of anything he could have probably concocted something to save himself, and that angle would be feasible, right?

But still...it just seems to get more and more interesting.

It appears the bruising and abrasions are conducive to someone thrashing to save themselves.

That is SO sad.

[BTFLCHLD]

Wow. It seems on the diagrams of the body, she had a lot of fresh wounds but there were also some older bruises. the filming of brainstorm was incomplete when natalie died. there were some scenes in the movie that were physically demanding, and I seem to recall an interview somewhere that she states that is/was the case. it would make sense that she may have received some bruising while filming, as well I do believe they were on vacation for days prior to this and I know when I am out and about hiking, and on and off a boat, I too come away with bruising from a bang here and there.

[Nico]

the filming of brainstorm was incomplete when natalie died. there were some scenes in the movie that were physically demanding, and I seem to recall an interview somewhere that she states that is/was the case. it would make sense that she may have received some bruising while filming, as well I do believe they were on vacation for days prior to this and I know when I am out and about hiking, and on and off a boat, I too come away with bruising from a bang here and there.

This all makes sense to me. I wonder why people jumped so harshly on the 'RJ did it' bandwagon. It seems that the possibility he didn't do it is very realistic. But my guess is that the whole scenario of there being only three people and the captain on the boat makes it more likely they'd point to one of them.

I guess RJ has had altering stories as well through the years, which can sometimes sway people's opinions.

[BTFLCHLD]

Nico, when you have a chance, see This Property Is Condemned.
This is one of my favorite films. I wore through the video :o but now own the dvd.
I have always been, and always will be, a major fan.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061089/

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1hCnQXMbOp8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Nico]

I so will BTFLCHLD. I have been a fan of Natalie's for most of my life but I admit I've not seen all her films. Now I'm pumped to see more. If you have a chance give me your top list and I'll go from there. ;)

[Nico]

Going back to Natalie - anyone remember her in "Meteor" with Sean Connery? I think it was very late 70's, she was still a stunner in that too!

No hon. I never saw that one either. I have much to catch up on!! Thank you for the recommendation. :wavey:

[CADreaming]

Her final movie "brainstorm" with Walken is kickass -- I recommend it.

I loved it too. I usually can't stand those type of movies but it was intriguing. And, maybe her death and the questions about her relationship with Walken helped add to my interest. But, I still enjoyed it.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FCc69jg9Kvc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Another movie I enjoyed besides my Christmas favorite, "Miracle on 34th Street" and the classic, "Splendor in the Grass" is "Inside Daisy Clover".

This is all true. I don't know, I have a strange fascination with mysteries I suppose. And being that there are so many who believe one thing and other who believe the other, it sort of pulls me in more. I'm not losing sleep over it. Natalie is gone and nothing that results from this can bring her back. But still...it just sort of interests me. :shrug:

Oh, I am with you! I'm totally into mysteries. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, really. I just believe that it was an accident although I stumbled on some gossip today that certainly spices up the theories...

This all makes sense to me. I wonder why people jumped so harshly on the 'RJ did it' bandwagon. It seems that the possibility he didn't do it is very realistic. But my guess is that the whole scenario of there being only three people and the captain on the boat makes it more likely they'd point to one of them.

I guess RJ has had altering stories as well through the years, which can sometimes sway people's opinions.

Ok, so it's just a piece of gossip but remember earlier when I mentioned Stefanie Powers and William Holden's death? It happened a couple of week's prior to Natalie's drowning. I remember there was a lot of speculation going on in the tabloids anyway about the "coincidence" of the timing of their deaths and the rumors about Stefanie & RJ. So, the gossip I read was a theory in effect that Bill Holden (who was an alcoholic and had recently been drinking again) had actually gotten into a fight with Stefanie and she either hit him or he fell, she left him and he died. It went on to say that because of her relationship with RJ and the knowledge that if the truth was revelaed she would be implicated, their show would be canceled and careers go up smoke, that she was calling him all hours of the night pissing Natalie off and she was fed up with their affair. The speculation is that Natalie was fighting on the boat that night with RJ about Stefanie because she knew the truth about Holden's death and that RJ was determined to protect Stefanie. :shrug: :shocked: :eek:

If there is zero truth in that theory, it sure is well thought out.

Meanwhile, I stumbled on this website of the author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor -- with a ton more info: http://martirulli.blogspot.com/

[Macfanforever]

Natalie was one of my moms favoite actresses besides Shirley Temple.This will be very interesting 30 years later. Not with all of this computer and CSI technology that we have now.I also likes Natalie Wood too.

[Nico]

I loved it too. I usually can't stand those type of movies but it was intriguing. And, maybe her death and the questions about her relationship with Walken helped add to my interest. But, I still enjoyed it.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FCc69jg9Kvc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thank you for this! I'm going to take you gals up on this recommendation. I

Ok, so it's just a piece of gossip but remember earlier when I mentioned Stefanie Powers and William Holden's death? It happened a couple of week's prior to Natalie's drowning. I remember there was a lot of speculation going on in the tabloids anyway about the "coincidence" of the timing of their deaths and the rumors about Stefanie & RJ. So, the gossip I read was a theory in effect that Bill Holden (who was an alcoholic and had recently been drinking again) had actually gotten into a fight with Stefanie and she either hit him or he fell, she left him and he died. It went on to say that because of her relationship with RJ and the knowledge that if the truth was revelaed she would be implicated, their show would be canceled and careers go up smoke, that she was calling him all hours of the night pissing Natalie off and she was fed up with their affair. The speculation is that Natalie was fighting on the boat that night with RJ about Stefanie because she knew the truth about Holden's death and that RJ was determined to protect Stefanie. :shrug: :shocked: :eek:

If there is zero truth in that theory, it sure is well thought out.

Meanwhile, I stumbled on this website of the author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor -- with a ton more info: http://martirulli.blogspot.com/

:eek: This stuff is SO riveting, my goodness. Thank you for these contributions. It's like one of those stories where you pop a bag of popcorn and sit at the edge of your seat wondering what will come up next. This whole Powers/Holden/Wagner/Wood thing is captivating...I'm going to check out this link. Thank you! :wavey: Y'all are better than the news.

[CADreaming]

It is fascinating. Did you see 48 Hours? I missed it. Here's the detective:

<embed src="http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/cbsnews_player_embed.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#333333" width="425" height="279" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="si=254&contentValue=50115216&shareUrl=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7388892n" />

And, this just came out today:

By ABC News
Nov 23, 2011 7:04am
Natalie Wood Mystery: Captain of Yacht Passes Polygraph Test (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2011/11/natalie-wood-mystery-captain-of-yacht-passes-polygraph-test/)

The recently reopened case of actress Natalie Wood’s drowning death focuses on new information that may implicate those on board the boat the actress fell from 30 years ago, including the boat’s captain, who has passed a lie detector test.

Dennis Davern, the captain of the Splendour, the yacht which the actors were staying on, said that he heard Wood and husband Robert Wagner arguing moments before she disappeared. Davern has said that he believes Wagner had a role in Wood’s death.

Davern had a lie detector test performed on him by examiner Howard Temple, who says that the results of the polygraph “indicated he was telling the truth.”

In this exclusive interview with “Good Morning America,” Temple said Davern told him that after Wood’s death Wagner instructed him to not speak about the drowning.

“Davern made the statement that he stayed at the Wagner home … [was] told not to talk …Wagner paid for his therapy, and Davern could not leave the estate without bodyguards,” Temple said.

In an NBC interview last week, Davern said ”Yes I would say so,” when asked about Wagner’s responsibility. He admitted that he may have been at fault as well, saying, “We didn’t take any steps to see if we could locate her. It was a matter of don’t look too hard, don’t turn on search light, don’t call anyone.”

Davern also said that he lied to officials in the initial police report. It is unclear whether he could face charges if that’s true.

Davern’s motives in revealing this new information regarding the night of Wood’s death have been called into question after he co-authored a book about the actress’s death. He and Marti Rulli wrote the 2009 book “Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendour,” about the circumstances surrounding the actress’ death. He and Lana Wood, Natalie Wood’s sister, asked authorities to re-open the case last year.

ABC News has learned that detectives have now interviewed Marilyn Wayne, the boater who was aboard a ship 40 yards away that night in 1981. She claims she heard Wood screaming for help moments before she allegedly drowned off the coast of Catalina Island in California.

“They talked to me about what I remember from the case all those years ago,” Wayne told “Entertainment Tonight.”

Wood, the star of film classics like “West Side Story” and “Rebel Without a Cause,” apparently drowned while boating with Wagner and actor Christopher Walken, with whom she was filming what would be her last role in the movie “Brainstorm.”

The official cause of Wood’s death was determined to be accidental drowning, but because there has been little concrete information about the circumstances surrounding the events of that night, speculation has been rife and the case remains one of Hollywood’s longest-running mysteries.

Lifeguard Roger Smith, who pulled Wood’s body out of the water, has told “Good Morning America” that he believes the actress may have floated alive for hours.

“I could have saved her,” Smith said, adding that he was “not called in time.”

So far Wagner and Walken, the two men with Wood that night, are keeping quiet regarding the reopening of the case.

When gossip website TMZ.com caught up with Walken in West Hollywood Tuesday to ask him what he thinks about the reopening of the case, Walken simply said, “I don’t know.”

Wagner, the now 81-year-old star of the TV series “Hart to Hart,” is still hard at work, making an appearance as a murder suspect on an episode of CBS’ “NCIS” this week.

Wagner was not charged in Wood’s death, and police plan to reach out to him as part of the re-opened investigation. They say he is not a suspect.

[gfd1963]

Another thing that bothers me are the bruises on her body. How did she get those?

I am a huge fan of Natalie to the extent that I remember where I was and what I was doing when I heard she had died.

There is a book by the coroner on the case called Coroner to the Stars. In it, from what, I remember he says the bruises on Natalie's legs were consistent with her trying to reboard the dinghy via some sort of metal step used by swimmers but not being be able to as the down jacket she was wearing had become heavy with water. It is believed she held onto the dinghy as it was carried by the tide and breeze for over a mile frantically fighting for her life.

I actually find, at the moment, the official version of events quite plausible and that it was some sort of freak accident surrounded by some unfortunate circumstances ie. arguing, drinking, people hearing or not taking her cries for help seriously as there were parties going on on other boats. I do believe though that help should have been called sooner.

Gill.

[McTrouble]

I am a huge fan of Natalie to the extent that I remember where I was and what I was doing when I heard she had died.

There is a book by the coroner on the case called Coroner to the Stars. In it, from what, I remember he says the bruises on Natalie's legs were consistent with her trying to reboard the dinghy via some sort of metal step used by swimmers but not being be able to as the down jacket she was wearing had become heavy with water. It is believed she held onto the dinghy as it was carried by the tide and breeze for over a mile frantically fighting for her life.

I actually find, at the moment, the official version of events quite plausible and that it was some sort of freak accident surrounded by some unfortunate circumstances ie. arguing, drinking, people hearing or not taking her cries for help seriously as there were parties going on on other boats. I do believe though that help should have been called sooner.

Gill.

Interesting stuff!

I guess one of the reasons this is all so fascinating is precisely because we will never ever know the real truth of the matter.

[Macfanforever]

I did like Brainstorm.With all of the computers we have today .I would love to record and playback my dreams.Ok as I was thinking of this story.I remember first hearing about Natalie Woods accident from Entertainment Tonight which I recorded at the time.My mom was heartbroken when she was watching the story unfold with me that night.I missed the 48 Hours show .but I can catch it online .This will be a very interesting case.

[Nico]

This doesn't say a lot, however I'm going to share it because every little bit seems to add something: Christopher Walken Says "I Don't Know" (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2065041/Natalie-Wood-death-Christopher-Walken-breaks-silence-reopening-case.html)

Here's what Robert Wagner said about that night in (I believe) his book:

‘Chris [Walken] began talking about his 'total pursuit of a career', which he admitted was more important to him than his personal life. He clearly thought Natalie should live like that, too.'I got angry. "Why don't you stay out of her career?" I said. "She's got enough people telling her what to do without you."'As the argument escalated, Natalie left for bed.
'The last time I saw my wife she was fixing her hair in the bathroom while I was arguing with Chris,' he said. 'I saw her shut the door. She was going to bed.'

So apparently Chris Walken and Robert W. were fighting over Natalie prior to her death.

[gfd1963]

Interesting stuff!

I guess one of the reasons this is all so fascinating is precisely because we will never ever know the real truth of the matter.

I'm in total agreement with that, Viv. I think it could be discussed until the cows come home and we wouldn't be any wiser - a bit like Marilyn, no one knows for sure. :confused:

Gill.

[Nico]

I'm in total agreement with that, Viv. I think it could be discussed until the cows come home and we wouldn't be any wiser - a bit like Marilyn, no one knows for sure. :confused:

Gill.

Yes, definitely a bit. Though I find Natalie's more fascinating but, ultimately, just as sad. With Marilyn, there are different theories of course, but she was a highly sensitive and emotionally scarred person who had spent so many years living up to an image that was very different from who she really was inside. Whereas, with Natalie, there was this huge mystery and shock. And the children involved makes it WAY more tragic to me. :distress:

Anyway, there seems to be all these things unfolding with Natalie's case that are happening right now, but with Marilyn...it all sort of seems to be more speculation than facts. :shrug:

Unless you know more than me. :wavey:

I really like discussing this with you good people. I've learned more about this whole case via this thread than in all the years I've wondered, as a Natalie fan. How weird is that?

[GypsySorcerer]

I have been a fan of Natalie Wood since I was little. My mom adores her and introduced me to her films. Splendor is one of my top ten favorite films.

I hate to think RJ was responsible for her death. I do believe her loved her deeply, but they also had a volatile relationship. In his autobiography, he talks about lurking outside Warren Beatty's house with a gun when Natalie and Beatty were together.

I doubt if anything will really come of this...30 years later. I feel horribly for Natalie's daughters, who lost their mother so young.

[CADreaming]

I totally think there was foul play in Marilyn's death. The mob. Peter Lawford. JFK. RFK. She was a loose cannon and they couldn't risk her shooting off.

Nico, I am so with you on Natalie's case right now! I read a lot of the author's blog the other night and granted she makes valid points, but the gist remains the same. Regardless of how you slice it -- I think what ultimately happened is that RJ & Natalie had a big fight and she probably stormed out of the cabin and he was both too drunk and too mad to give it much more thought. Even like the detective said - they thought she took the dinghy back to shore. I wouldn't have gone searching for her in the water either. I would have assumed she was so pissed she went to get a room in town. She may have even stormed out saying that and he may have said fine go on then as anyone would do in the heat of the moment. Then, later he cooled down and maybe sobered up some and realized he needed to find her and maybe feared something had happened.

Then, the other things are so questionable -- the rumors about RJ's lifestyle, Walken's lifestyle, Natalie's promiscuity, Stefanie Powers/Holden, drug use on the boat... a lot of that could also add to a cover up of some kind.

The author of the book seemed obsessed with the bruising on Natalie. I read the Wagner's weekend trip was a brief break in between filming for Brainstorm. She had been filming the day before and would be back filming the next week. So, as was mentioned earlier she could very well had bruises from her scenes in addition to some obvious bruising from the drowning.

Oh, and this woman who heard her screaming. I can't let this go. I read today she did an interview recently and claims to have heard her screaming for 25 minutes. Yet, she did NOTHING!!! I'm not talking about calling someone either. If you are constantly hearing "HELP ME! I'M DROWNING!" would you not get your a** off your boat and go and look for her?? I just am floored at that. Stop your party and go find the person in distress!!

[gfd1963]

I totally think there was foul play in Marilyn's death. The mob. Peter Lawford. JFK. RFK. She was a loose cannon and they couldn't risk her shooting off.

Nico, I am so with you on Natalie's case right now! I read a lot of the author's blog the other night and granted she makes valid points, but the gist remains the same. Regardless of how you slice it -- I think what ultimately happened is that RJ & Natalie had a big fight and she probably stormed out of the cabin and he was both too drunk and too mad to give it much more thought. Even like the detective said - they thought she took the dinghy back to shore. I wouldn't have gone searching for her in the water either. I would have assumed she was so pissed she went to get a room in town. She may have even stormed out saying that and he may have said fine go on then as anyone would do in the heat of the moment. Then, later he cooled down and maybe sobered up some and realized he needed to find her and maybe feared something had happened.

Then, the other things are so questionable -- the rumors about RJ's lifestyle, Walken's lifestyle, Natalie's promiscuity, Stefanie Powers/Holden, drug use on the boat... a lot of that could also add to a cover up of some kind.

The author of the book seemed obsessed with the bruising on Natalie. I read the Wagner's weekend trip was a brief break in between filming for Brainstorm. She had been filming the day before and would be back filming the next week. So, as was mentioned earlier she could very well had bruises from her scenes in addition to some obvious bruising from the drowning.

Oh, and this woman who heard her screaming. I can't let this go. I read today she did an interview recently and claims to have heard her screaming for 25 minutes. Yet, she did NOTHING!!! I'm not talking about calling someone either. If you are constantly hearing "HELP ME! I'M DROWNING!" would you not get your a** off your boat and go and look for her?? I just am floored at that. Stop your party and go find the person in distress!!

I, too, find that particularly disturbing. Surely, as someone who was afraid of water, Natalie's cries for help would have been filled with geniune terror. Why anyone would not bother to react seriously to that is beyond me.

Gill.

[Nico]

:distress: My gosh, you know the saddest part is knowing she died in such a horrible way. I mean, it wasn't some tranquil/calm manner but one of absolute terror and struggle. And people die this way ALL the time, so a single case like this one brings to light so many others of less notable people. It's horrible any way, no matter whom it is (unless it's a serial killer/rapist/terrorist, etc. and then maybe it would be a little less horrible). But poor Natalie...she was really a very sweet and lovely woman. And a great mother.

Plus a fantastic actress, tbh. I am going to be looking thoroughly at all these links being posted in this thread because it just draws me more and more in.

[BTFLCHLD]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mWxkDLhNFJI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[vivfox]

With all of the computers we have today .I would love to record and playback my dreams.


So would I and zillions of other people probably. This would make for a high rated reality show too.

[JWS]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mWxkDLhNFJI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Great video. Thanks.

[Nico]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mWxkDLhNFJI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

All of what he said is exactly what I adore about her. She was an amazing actress and a definite star, but very real and seemed to have an innate sweetness about her.

[CADreaming]

Interesting turn - Natalie's death certificate has been amended.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/story/2012-08-21/natalie-wood-death-certificate-amended/57194638/1

[Macfanforever]

I blame everybody onboard that boat.She was screaming and nobody bothered to get up and out to help her.What a shame.

[cliffdweller]

Oh, and this woman who heard her screaming. I can't let this go. I read today she did an interview recently and claims to have heard her screaming for 25 minutes. Yet, she did NOTHING!!! I'm not talking about calling someone either. If you are constantly hearing "HELP ME! I'M DROWNING!" would you not get your a** off your boat and go and look for her?? I just am floored at that. Stop your party and go find the person in distress!!

Yes, this is incredibly negligent on that woman's part. So sad that this could have prevented her death.

[Macfanforever]

I guess they were all hungover and sheetfaced to save her.

[Macfanforever]

Heres new news about Natalie Wood.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/01/natalie-wood-bruised-scratched-before-drowning-coroner-report-says.html

[Nico]

Thanks for that link, Macfan. It's hard to know what to think. There are so many stories and indications that seem to point to one thing, but then it's hard to be certain because there really is no definite witness. It's both sad and fascinating to me. Poor lady.