SWS vs IYD article

[elle]

huge thank you to shackin'up for the translation (he says it's not perfect; but it definitely gives you the jest of the article):


Lindsey Buckingham / Stevie Nicks - Seeds We Sow / In Your Dreams

Buckingham vs. Nicks

http://www.8weekly.nl/artikel/9504/lindsey-buckingham-stevie-nicks-seeds-we-sow-in-your-dreams-buckingham-vs-nicks.html

With Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham made a series of classic records, but how still-relevant is their new work? A comparative study.

Tristan and Isolde, Romeo and Juliet, Bonny and Clyde, Buckingham and Nicks. Although the two are now thirty-five years apart, the music will always keep them connected. Put them together in a studio and fireworks are guaranteed. Take them apart and the results are fickle.

The solo careers side by side
After the Rumours and Tusk albums of Fleetwood Mac made them superstars, Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks both started with solo albums in 1981. The first strike is for Nicks: Buckingham’s Law and Order must have been defeated both commercially and artistically by Nicks' Bella Donna. Nicks works hard on her career in the eighties most, but wrong song production and uneven songwriting put her in a a downward spiral. In Your Dreams appears ten years after the moderate Trouble in Shangri-La.

Buckingham left Fleetwood Mac after the comeback album Tango in the Night in 1987. For talking about a real solo career, however, is very little reason: apart from the strong Out of the Cradle of 1991, nothing appears for a long long time. The most powerful man in the world gets him to rejoin Fleetwood Mac. The way Fleetwood Mac stands behind Bill Clinton is a first sign of social engagement. Fleetwood Mac's comeback album Say You Will from 2003 shows a Buckingham against the greedy capitalists who destroy the world. He does this with a cynicism that is traditionally kept for Nicks. ' take no prisoners, only kill, it was called in "Peacekeeper". Say You Will is the beginning of a productive period: Seeds We Sow is Buckingham's third solo album in five years.

All thirteen Nicks
For her latest album, Nicks got productional help from Dave Stewart (Eurythmics). The fact that Nicks only works with people over fifty explains the smooth, dated sound of this album. Another point of annoyance are Nicks' lyrics. She’s been having a tendency for platitudes intended as profound wisdom. The seriously intended 'Cheaper Than Free ‘says it all, for that matter:

What's cheaper than free? You and me.
What does money not buy? You and I!
What is faster than a fast car? A beating heart
More exciting than high fashion? High passion!

What costs less than a penny? Sentiment! Fair is fair, there are quite a few decent songs on this album, like "In Your Dreams," "Moonlight (A Vampire's Dream)" and "Soldier's Angel," a duet with Lindsey Buckingham. However, too often it seems that Nicks can’t observe the line between art and kitsch anymore. In short, it's time for Nicks to retire.

Little crazy, little genius
On Seeds We Sow, Buckingham is doing what he loves doing: do his own thing. Buckingham makes his solo albums virtually by himself, through dubbing endless layers of guitars and vocals over each other. Whether this is the best way to record an album is the question. A decent rhythm section should at least do no harm. Fact is that Buckingham's method often delivers highly original results. Similarly on Seeds We Sow. Predecessor Gift of Screws was an especially nice crazy record. On Seeds We Sow, we mostly hear that Buckingham is not only a little crazy, but also a bit of a genius. This qualification deserves the song 'Illumination', his most poppy song since 'Peacekeeper', yet such a number that only can be made by Buckingham.

"Stars are Crazy" and "When She Comes Down 'are atmospheric campfire ballads. "One Take" is an angular rocker, which Buckingham’s fierce swipe at business people behind the scenes pulling the strings, increasing the gap between rich and poor in the United States. Has he put up his tent on Wall Street yet?

I'm just another madman
I turn it off, I turn it on
And I will not be denied
No. I will not be satisfied
Till the middle class is gone

Then firmly rocking, then restrained, Buckingham is able to hold the tension. Only in the last three songs the attention weakens a bit. That Seeds We Sow is a surprisingly strong album, maybe it’s Buckingham's best. In their heyday, Buckingham and Nicks were evenly matched, late in the year 2011, Buckingham leaves his ex far behind.

[BombaySapphire3]

I halfway agree with what this writer has to say about Stevie needing to retire .The part that I disagree with is that she should retire from recording new music.It is touring IMO that she might want to consider retiring from.

[bluefox4000]

hmmmmmmm......I think IYD was Stevie's strongest album in years, and if she has more like that in her tank.....keep on:thumbsup: However SWS.....yea i better not comment lol:sorry::laugh:

Mick

[Nico]

Seeds We Sow is a beautiful album. My love for it has only grown since I first heard it, and y'all remember all my fangirling then. I have nothing but love for the ENTIRE album and now even songs I was sort of "well, it's OK" about- like "Stars Are Crazy" and SWS- have become my favorite to listen to. In fact, I find a new favorite every few weeks. It never grows boring or stale. I don't overdue the listening as much anymore, but I still get that crazy love feeling for IOOT whenever it comes on.:blob1::blob2: Sooooooo much love for that song!

I own IYD and I listened to it extensively in June and I guess I'm just not made to be a chiffon-head or I don't quite get what they get but...it's sort of boring to me. I mean, it's got some really nice tunes like FWIW, IYD, WSS, "Moonlight," and YMBTO...but the others just...I can't. And even the aforementioned ones that I prefer start to get tedious for me. I definitely think it's possibly her best solo album, so that may demonstrate my overall feelings on her solo work.

To me, there is no comparison between the two. Stevie's music is something completely different and great for what it brings to her fans. And LB's music absolutely rocks my world. Love his ENTIRE new album, love practically everything he has ever released solo. I will happily critique L&O and UTS (at times) but even those two have gems of supreme beauty on them. And I couldn't begin to create a "best of" box-set for Lindsey. It's just too difficult considering how much I tend to love his albums as a whole, even the less than perfect stuff. :lol:

[TerraRhiannon]

I halfway agree with what this writer has to say about Stevie needing to retire .The part that I disagree with is that she should retire from recording new music.It is touring IMO that she might want to consider retiring from.

For me it's the opposite. While I love her new stuff, for some reason I think she should retire from the studio. She should put out an acoustic album or another box set, or release some demos. But I really don't know what's best for her. She really loves doing both so...she just keeps on keepin' on.

[CADreaming]

Seeds We Sow is a beautiful album. My love for it has only grown since I first heard it, and y'all remember all my fangirling then. I have nothing but love for the ENTIRE album and now even songs I was sort of "well, it's OK" about- like "Stars Are Crazy" and SWS- have become my favorite to listen to. In fact, I find a new favorite every few weeks. It never grows boring or stale. I don't overdue the listening as much anymore, but I still get that crazy love feeling for IOOT whenever it comes on.:blob1::blob2: Sooooooo much love for that song!

I own IYD and I listened to it extensively in June and I guess I'm just not made to be a chiffon-head or I don't quite get what they get but...it's sort of boring to me. I mean, it's got some really nice tunes like FWIW, IYD, WSS, "Moonlight," and YMBTO...but the others just...I can't. And even the aforementioned ones that I prefer start to get tedious for me. I definitely think it's possibly her best solo album, so that may demonstrate my overall feelings on her solo work.

To me, there is no comparison between the two. Stevie's music is something completely different and great for what it brings to her fans. And LB's music absolutely rocks my world. Love his ENTIRE new album, love practically everything he has ever released solo. I will happily critique L&O and UTS (at times) but even those two have gems of supreme beauty on them. And I couldn't begin to create a "best of" box-set for Lindsey. It's just too difficult considering how much I tend to love his albums as a whole, even the less than perfect stuff. :lol:

I don't know, Nico. I think it's just because we're fans. I really love both of the albums, but most people I know would listen to it once if I played it for them and they may say 'that's good', but they wouldn't make an effort to listen to either one again. I don't think they are doing mainstream marketable music anymore. Or maybe I'm just to immersed in it to know if I would be drawn to them as an average music lover as I once was. :shrug:

[Regina]

I hardly think Stevie needs to retire from either recording OR performing. I think her IYD concert was one of the very best (if not THE best) I've seen from her, and I've seen A LOT of Stevie concerts. And, personally, I love IYD...WITH the very large exception of Cheaper Than Free. I will totally agree with the writer of the article on this. The lyrics are absolute crap and that's one song I haven't even tried to listen to past one or two hearings. Why anyone allowed this on an album is beyond me.

Having said that...

Stevie is not Lindsey. Lindsey is not Stevie. Just because they ARE connected and have been for eons doesn't mean they have to be compared and contrasted any time they make an artistic move. Plus, I gotta tell you, they are very, very, VERY different. Some of us (precious few, it would seem) love both, some love one over the other. And it's all good. But I hate the one-up-man-ship that seems to exist.

I'm enjoying all of this new stuff. And loving Stevie's album and her concerts makes me no less of a Lindsey lady, or a FM freak.

[Nico]

I don't think they are doing mainstream marketable music anymore. Or maybe I'm just to immersed in it to know if I would be drawn to them as an average music lover as I once was. :shrug:

You're very likely right about that CAD, though Stevie's song IYD was sort of more mainstream that the others I guess. :shrug: It's like listening to Mark Knopfler or a new Waits album and being very familiar with their respective styles but knowing that they wouldn't take off with my friends too much. But I think that is necessarily a bad thing. There's a certain type of artist who has a consistent and loyal fan-base (like SN and LB, to their varying degrees) and if those fans are pleased or perhaps some exposure will bring new fans to the plate...then they've done a great thing I guess.

It's really hard to analyze this sort of thing. It is what it is I guess. :)

[elle]

they are very, very, VERY different. Some of us (precious few, it would seem) love both, some love one over the other.

exactly! their music has evolved in such different directions and they are so completely different as artists.

but i guess people like conflicts and the whole love & war saga and that's why these comparisons keep popping up.

[CADreaming]

exactly! their music has evolved in such different directions and they are so completely different as artists.

but i guess people like conflicts and the whole love & war saga and that's why these comparisons keep popping up.

Honestly, their solo music should never be compared - which is WHY they do solo stuff - to satisfy the need to express themselves outside of Fleetwood Mac. And, then they get to mesh their music and voices together again when they're doing the band thing. LB's right - best of both worlds. And, we all get to benefit! Win-Win.

[louielouie2000]

Honestly, their solo music should never be compared - which is WHY they do solo stuff - to satisfy the need to express themselves outside of Fleetwood Mac. And, then they get to mesh their music and voices together again when they're doing the band thing. LB's right - best of both worlds. And, we all get to benefit! Win-Win.

This. It's also why I think so many of us are fascinated by the music they make within FM. All the members of FM, past and present, are so manically different. It's astonishing they can somehow find common ground to make music together at all. And that the music is not only listenable, but more than the sum of it's parts. :)

Stevie's and Lindsey's solo careers are total apples and oranges. I've never found myself comparing them at all. I've never listened to In Your Dreams and Seeds We Sow back to back. The two albums appeal to entirely different sides of the brain. I will say that I think both are incredibly successful with achieving their artistic aims. Both are good albums which show of a wide range of what each artist is capable of and stands for. Both albums find the respective artist evolving and sharpening their craft, yet staying true to their roots. I really don't have anything negative to say about either album.

[henryscutter]

I hardly think Stevie needs to retire from either recording OR performing. I think her IYD concert was one of the very best (if not THE best) I've seen from her, and I've seen A LOT of Stevie concerts. And, personally, I love IYD...WITH the very large exception of Cheaper Than Free. I will totally agree with the writer of the article on this. The lyrics are absolute crap and that's one song I haven't even tried to listen to past one or two hearings. Why anyone allowed this on an album is beyond me.

Having said that...

Stevie is not Lindsey. Lindsey is not Stevie. Just because they ARE connected and have been for eons doesn't mean they have to be compared and contrasted any time they make an artistic move. Plus, I gotta tell you, they are very, very, VERY different. Some of us (precious few, it would seem) love both, some love one over the other. And it's all good. But I hate the one-up-man-ship that seems to exist.

I'm enjoying all of this new stuff. And loving Stevie's album and her concerts makes me no less of a Lindsey lady, or a FM freak.

Amen. What a lame article :rolleyes:

[shackin'up]

I don't think it's lame. I don't agree with some of it, but in the core, I do. I think that Stevie has some very strong songs on the new album, but that the production killed alot of it. CTF is a disaster. I don't think she has to retire, I just hope she'll find a way of recording that fit her writing and voice more. Dry, vulnerable, and full of emotion, please.

For lindsey's album, I just agree about basicly everything, including the question if this recordingprocess is the way to do it. But then again: it would not have been as idiosyncratic as it came out; THAT fits him. -oh, and I LOVE the last three songs.

I've always loved Stevie as an artist. I've always hated her as a star-diva, and her choices still are driven from that. She has every right to do that, but simply I don't like that. I guess the writer of this article thinks the same way.

[Silver Springs]

I agree with the closing sentiments. Lindsey has far outstripped Stevie with his latest offering. Now I know that's a controversial comment to make, but aside from a few songs, Stevie just leaves me cold. Her songs tend to follow the same sort of pattern and offer very little that's genuinely different. But Lindsey is consistently evolving and changing his styles and approaches. I could never get bored of Lindsey's work. And yet I listened to Stevie's In Your Dreams once on the day it came out, and I have yet to listen to it again. Probably the worst thing is I don't even want to. Whereas I'm listening to my Lindsey playlist quite happily right now and have been doing so for the past couple of hours.

[sushud82]

Thanks for sharing.

I was just thinking about this the other day because it has surprised me that I've been WAY more into IYD than SWS. I don't know if it was the timing - as in I was so hungry for new SN/LB that when Stevie's album dropped first I was ecstatic (the album didn't leave my car's CD player for 2 months)- or if I just am not as impressed by SWS as I wanted to be. I've listened to it many times but nothing really sticks with me...even after seeing him live. Which is weird because before the album was released I was really excited about it and listened to the new stuff from Saban a lot and loved it. I just don't have the urge to listen to it at all though I do get excited when IOOT comes on the radio - (anyone in Cleveland - 107.3 plays it almost daily).

I listened the crap (?) out of UTS and GoS so I know its not just a matter of SN v. LB for me. I generally prefer LBs sound.

I've always been a flip-flopper between SN and LB. I disagree with most of the article and as others have said you really can't compare SN and LB solo work. Yes, yes I roll my eyes at "Cheaper Than Free" as well but its not like all of LBs lyrics are Pulitzer-worthy either (see "It Was You").

Anyway, going to see him again in Cleveland and possibly Newark so maybe that will spark my interest in SWS again.

[McTrouble]

I agree with the closing sentiments. Lindsey has far outstripped Stevie with his latest offering. Now I know that's a controversial comment to make, but aside from a few songs, Stevie just leaves me cold. Her songs tend to follow the same sort of pattern and offer very little that's genuinely different. But Lindsey is consistently evolving and changing his styles and approaches. I could never get bored of Lindsey's work. And yet I listened to Stevie's In Your Dreams once on the day it came out, and I have yet to listen to it again. Probably the worst thing is I don't even want to. Whereas I'm listening to my Lindsey playlist quite happily right now and have been doing so for the past couple of hours.

Yup and yup! :thumbsup:

[Silver Springs]

Another thing. With Lindsey, I am constantly discovering new things I like. Be it a riff I never noticed before (Under The Skin being my latest epiphany), where as with Stevie I am constantly discovering new things that bug me. And songs I used to love that just don't cut it for me any longer.

[Erin]

I hardly think Stevie needs to retire from either recording OR performing. I think her IYD concert was one of the very best (if not THE best) I've seen from her, and I've seen A LOT of Stevie concerts. And, personally, I love IYD...WITH the very large exception of Cheaper Than Free. I will totally agree with the writer of the article on this. The lyrics are absolute crap and that's one song I haven't even tried to listen to past one or two hearings. Why anyone allowed this on an album is beyond me.

Having said that...

Stevie is not Lindsey. Lindsey is not Stevie. Just because they ARE connected and have been for eons doesn't mean they have to be compared and contrasted any time they make an artistic move. Plus, I gotta tell you, they are very, very, VERY different. Some of us (precious few, it would seem) love both, some love one over the other. And it's all good. But I hate the one-up-man-ship that seems to exist.

I'm enjoying all of this new stuff. And loving Stevie's album and her concerts makes me no less of a Lindsey lady, or a FM freak.

Ditto.

I like Stevie's album better as a whole. I didn't anticipate that happening, but what can you do! Plus, I got back from Italy 2 weeks ago, so I was able to make random Italian Summer quotes and associations for 10 days.:p

I'm on a countdown (ha!) for the Live at the Saban CD. These songs work much better live for me.

[Nico]

Another thing. With Lindsey, I am constantly discovering new things I like. Be it a riff I never noticed before (Under The Skin being my latest epiphany), where as with Stevie I am constantly discovering new things that bug me. And songs I used to love that just don't cut it for me any longer.

This for me. I appreciate your candor and honesty. Recently, I rediscovered the greatness of GI and I'm always going back to Lindsey stuff- even stuff I totally overlooked- and recognizing something new and amazing about it.

[Nico]

I've always been a flip-flopper between SN and LB. I disagree with most of the article and as others have said you really can't compare SN and LB solo work. Yes, yes I roll my eyes at "Cheaper Than Free" as well but its not like all of LBs lyrics are Pulitzer-worthy either (see "It Was You").


No. He's not a lyrical genius. But the thing to keep in mind is how he has evolved as a lyricist. Lindsey came from writing very basic lyrics, like on Tusk for example- albeit some containing very poignant lines- to writing some very great song lyrics, from SYW onward. Has to be recognized.

Like I said in my original post, you really can't compare them as they are different and bring different things to the table. However, they WILL be compared and that is just how it goes. In any case, I can definitely appreciate Stevie's strengths without hesitation. But this new album of hers just didn't win me over, and none of her solo album ever have really. Some of her individual songs can be quite powerful, to varying degrees, but as a whole I still feel her peak stuff was on Tusk. Flawless.

[WildHearted]

It's kind of trivial to compare the two on a surface level like that, and doesn't actually show any insight or in depth analyses of the albums, to be honest.

Lindsey is Lindsey, Stevie is Stevie, if they were gonna try to do the same thing it would be pointless. In some ways I think thy are really similar in a lot of ways at times but their artistry is for the most part at opposite ends of the visible spectrum so obviously a lot of peoPle are gonna like one and not the other. I fail to see how this fact alone is article worthy.

Also, telling someone To retire is crass, rude, and uncalled for, just because you wpersonally don't like something.

That said, I took a three hour car rise today an over the course of it listened to both SWS and IYD in their entirety, an to me there are things to love and hate about both of them. They have their flaws which I won't go into but overall they are both very good albums and I'm just glad they have put out new, solid material at this stage in their lives. :)

[elle]

well, since now - after bashing the comparison - everybody started comparing:lol:, i feel compelled to add some opinions:

my biases: i don't generally care much for words unless they are really really great, music is much more important to me. don't really know stevie's solo material before IYD, other than stand back, edge of 17 and talk to me, but i listened to several of SN older solo songs on youtube that people kept quoted as great and they did absolutely nothing for me.

IYD -

as a whole i find IYD pleasant to listen to. but most songs go on and on for way too long and become boring.
the author of the article mentioned word kitsch when referring to some of the IYD and i find italian summer really schlager-y and kitsch-y - but that may be what DS was going for, i'm sure he's very familiar with that kind of music.
i find music on some of the songs really pedestrian (new orleans, annabel lee), i like bluesy-sounding songs on the album much better
i do feel that article is somewhat unfair in singling out cheaper than free words as an example - i thought DS may have written those?


SWS -

many mentioned they like new songs much better live, and i agree with that for the 6 we've heard live
as a whole i LOVE SWS, there is no bad song on it, there is a variety of music for very different tastes, but it still all hangs together nicely
some of the songs are pure brilliance - IOOT for example
it's one of the rare albums (including LB's, other than 2001 GOS bootleg) on which i don't feel compelled to skip any songs (and sometimes i even listen to SAC:shrug:)
but - i hate hate hate what he did to his voice on some of the songs:distress:. and i would probably be very dissapointed after hearing the 6 songs live if i first heard the album completely cold and we didn't have previews of what he did to his voice on IOOT, SWS and TTWLG. since i did hear those before the whole album, i was prepared and just really really happy that on most other songs he has left his voice more natural.
can't wait for live CD to have 6 new songs as live versions.

[elle]

Amen. What a lame article :rolleyes:

actually, that's not true. this article is an opinion piece that you may agree or disagree with, but has several insights that i haven't seen mentioned before, and that i love seeing stated so plainly.

what i love is that they singled out SYW as the start of lindsey's period of not just looking inwards into his own little world, but opening his eyes to the wider issues of the world and feeling compelled to state his opinions about them through music. at the same time his lyrics became much less literal and more artistic. since then he's had ups and downs on that trajectory, but as a whole, like Nico said he's progressed immensely in the lyrics department (even though i will always think that SHN words are a stroke of genius:laugh:). plus he's first and foremost a musician, not a poet, so you can't expect from him rhodes-scholar-literature-professor type lyrics like you get from kristofferson, for example.

[michelej1]

some of the songs are pure brilliance - IOOT for example


I guess Lindsey must have agreed, since that's the one he submitted for the Grammys.

Michele

[elle]

I guess Lindsey must have agreed, since that's the one he submitted for the Grammys.

not that it would happen either way, but i was just reading nickslive's blog and find it really bizarre that they submitted SWS in pop categories, when album was doing really well on various rock charts, and not nearly as good on pop charts.