Flop?

[Bryan]

Okay,I want to get opinions via this poll: Do you consider In Your Dreams a flop?

[Bryan]

I personally think it's sold well,buuuut a fair bit of promo has gone into it (not enough if you count video/radio play) and it dropped off the US albums very quickly,33 in Ireland,14 in UK and similar numbers around the world.It's easy to call it a flop..but i'm going to say Neither--the tour has yet to come ;)

[OooMissionary]

It has been rather successful actually. Stevie Nicks is 63 years old... She is not going to have a hit pop song (beyond a dancefloor remix). Her chart-topping solo success has never expanded past the U.S... What she had was more of a cult following world-wide. #6 in the United States is pretty much a hit these days for her genre. The gal has done pretty good with 'In Your Dreams'.

[keineg]

It's hard to call it a flop if you're only basing it on sales. There's soooo much more to it that categorize it as a flop (IMO - and this isn't my favorite SN recording either).

[Bryan]

It's hard to call it a flop if you're only basing it on sales. There's soooo much more to it that categorize it as a flop (IMO - and this isn't my favorite SN recording either).

ooh I wanna hear your opinion on it. I should've made it more broad a poll than just sales,but that's what the discussion part is for :) Musically,lyrically & more..I'd say apart from sales it's a great record,it's never gonna be my number 1 but I love it as it is

[Jondalar]

It's not a flop. It would of done really well 10 years ago and would of probably went platinum easily. It is a way better album than TISL, and the Dance is what gave Stevie the burst she needed to get TISL to gold. That album didn't even get good of word of mouth. This one has.

Keep in mind that Sheryl Crow's last alum only ended up selling around 150k when all was said and done. About the same for Melissa Ethredge. Classic Rock is dead.

There may be surprises coming from this album. Songs like Italian Summer and Moonlight and In Your Dreams haven't even been released, yet. I'm pretty certain that Moonlight and Italian Summer will find a home. I know someone will use them for their tv or movie montages.

I want this album to go GOLD badly because I think it deserves too. I think its a shame that some of her albums have went platinum or gold and this is a much better album. However, Stevie is 63 years old. She is not in the forefront of people's minds and if you ask me, the singles she has released are doing her any good. Plus, some of previous albums have lost her fans. She has to win them back again.

[TheWILDheart]

It is a way better album than TISL

....debatable.

[Artemis]

I wouldn't call it a flop, it's sold a respectable amount; especially considering that record sales in general are way down, unless the artist is mega-popular, like Lady GaGa or Beyoncé, or the new flavour of the month, like Adele. It's sold a respectable amount, but, more importantly, in my opinion, is the fact that it's been critically acclaimed. Stevie needed to release a great album to show that her best work wasn't just in the early 70s and 80s, and she isn't a washed-up-has-been. I think, commercially it's been as successful as they would have dared to hope, but, critically, it's been better received than anyone would have thought it would have been.

[StandbackStevie]

excellent album by Stevie definetly one of greatest piece of work just seemed to get promoted poorly to me I think it could have been promoted better and she should have really scrapped the rod stewart tour and focused on the touring and promoting In Your Dreams better than has been done. It sold very well with out much advertising for it imagine if they promoted it better how much she would have sold I just don't think she gets promoted like she should be its such a master piece of an album.

[Troddew]

Does anyone know an accurate current sales count?

[michelej1]

It was hard to choose either of the last two categories, because the reason I feel it's NOT a flop is not because I think it has sold well or because it will sell more. I think it's not a flop because it's been generally well received.

It's not an embarassment to the artist, the critics, and certainly not to Stevie fans. Stevie has done a lot of publicity for it and the jubilant kind -- not the "I can't wait until this press cycle is over" kind. No one has run away from the album in shame, as if they want to be absolved of responsibility for it. Dave, Stevie, everyone is as proud now as they were before it came out. Fans feel that they are taking away at least two or three classic songs from it that are as good as anything in Stevie's repertoire.

I don't know . . . regardless of sales, it's hard to consider this album a flop on any level.

Michele

[SapphireSister]

Street Angel was a flop and so was Stevie at that time. She's not now so no :wavey:.

[skuncles]

No it's not a flop at all. There are several factors that need to be looked at. 1) Stevie is a 63 year old classic rock artist, 2) The entire industry is selling about half of what it sold a decade ago and 3) Internet piracy has taken a HUGE bite out of all album sales.
The rules have totally changed for what determines a hit these days. Paul Simon, The Cars, Steve Miller and Journey are just a handful of artists aside from Stevie who put out albums this year, Stevie's is actually selling better than all of these other artists. I think only three albums have hit the platinum status so far this year (Lady Gaga, Adele, and Katy Perry), long gone are the days of selling 5 million copies of a single album. As a result you can't use those numbers as a measure of success anymore. There are HUNDREDS of web sites out there where you can download practically ANY album for free. In fact amoung the 20-something and younger crowd there is a common saying and that is "only idiots PAY for music!".
Stevie (a classic rock artist who hasn't a massive hit single in almost two decades) sold 50,000 copies of IYD it's first week. Brad Paisley who is currently one of the hottest acts in country music right now, is at the top of his game sold 120,000 copies of his album it's first week, that was considered HUGE.
On last week's Howard Stern show Howard was talking about Stevie being on The Voice and said that artists like her and others of her generation, have no choice but to do those shows. He said that radio isn't going to play their records, there is no MTV, and no one buys albums anymore. He said it sucks because these artists used to be huge sellers but now it's a huge struggle to even get your album noticed. Robin Quivers then said that Lindsey Buckingham has a new album coming out and he says it's the best he's ever done. Howard said "Too bad no one will actually hear it".
So to answer your question, if you're looking at the album with an 80's or 90's perspective, yes the album is a flop. But if you look at it using today's stats, then it's a pretty decent hit.

[APerfectLie]

Sales wise, I would consider it a let down, but not a total flop. All this nonsense about "It sold really well in this day and age!" is crap. It has moved a decent amount of copies, but it is still selling lower than TISL when accounting for the general loss in album sales over the past 10 years. Mama should have sold over 217,000 in the US by now to be comparable to TISL.

[Bryan]

Lots of great views & input everyone!
Yep,I would have anticipated IYD to have outsold TISL by now too.She was in all the right places in the lead up to the release--Ellen,Rumours Glee ep,Billboard,Twitter/word of mouth,radio..and The Voice thing recently.The casual fans didn't take the plunge on this one,that's unfortunate..bet they'd love it.
Rather she didn't do the Rod tour either that wasn't a positive move imo..and big loss was the single ''promo'' (lack of),Secret Love free download w/pre-order in Jan without a vid,then the vid comes out after CTF vid (? why) ..radio stops caring,then no second single/video,no docu as yet then word of FWIW as next up, a total mess of things right there.
If artists like Adele can sell *millions* with what I consider substandard tracks,then artists with GREAT ones should be selling more.Things are awfully strange in music..I listened to a chart show on radio today for the first time in aages and there's nothing but robot music !! Clubby/dance/vocoder/hard beat/distortion tracks made on laptops.I like to listen to that kinda stuff in moderation on occasion but it occupied almost the entire chart..It's actually shocking.

[Travis]

Lots of great views & input everyone!

If artists like Adele can sell *millions* with what I consider substandard tracks,then artists with GREAT ones should be selling more.

Adele substandard? More of today’s music could stand to be like hers.

[Bryan]

Adele substandard? More of today’s music could stand to be like hers.

Yeah,I don't wanna hate on her really,I knew people are digging her right now but to me she's another stage school singer marketed perfectly that won't last (Winehouse,Bedingfield) etc.
I should have chosen a better example:Katy Perry.Now she's selling millions and *is* substandard for sure

[Macfanforever]

Great CD.I have to 50/50 on it .awesome reviews from critics.Poor promotion from WB records here in the states.Little or no radio airplay of any of the tunes on IYD.Of course Stevie being sick on the first week of relese did not help.

[Heartboy]

It's only been two months! Give it time!

Chill!:p;)

[Heartboy]

Adele substandard? More of today’s music could stand to be like hers. I'm 'bout to take that Adele song to the shed! Radio has KILLED it! I'm tired of the song, already! :rolleyes:

[louielouie2000]

IYD has sold pretty much exactly like I expected it to, so I don't view it as a flop. I'd like to have seen it sell a lot better, but I knew that wasn't in the cards given the state of the industry, the economy, Stevie's age, etc.

[Christopher]

Sales wise, I would consider it a let down, but not a total flop. All this nonsense about "It sold really well in this day and age!" is crap. It has moved a decent amount of copies, but it is still selling lower than TISL when accounting for the general loss in album sales over the past 10 years. Mama should have sold over 217,000 in the US by now to be comparable to TISL.

I agree. Sales wise strictly, I'm a little disappointed IYD has not shifted over 200K by now in the US. As of last week it had sold over 120K in the US and over 10K in the UK, so it's probably @ 150K world wide - having charted in the top 40 album charts in @10 countries, which is still decent business for Stevie not having a high profile as a solo artist in 10 years and being a classic female rock artist of 63 years (young);)
I do think sales were affected (by how much we'll never know) being sick at the onset of release & canceling TV appearances and concerts and such.

But the album is far from being a considered a "flop". Now, had IYD sold 20K during it's debut week & @50k copies to date (in this new record sales reality), received lukewarm critical reviews, in addition to fans by & large being disappointed in it's contents & artistic merit - then, under these circumstances, IYD would absolutely be considered an outright flop by now. This album could still climb to over 200K in the US by years end, with her up coming tour, possible TV appearances on late shows, The IYD documentary with more promotional videos culled from that made available online. But I don't see it going Gold anytime soon, or her having another top 20 AC or top 25 triple AAA charting song:shrug:. The 1st release was her best chance of getting major radio exposure on those formats that will play her. Unless she has a fluke tie-in to a hit movie or TV show, the probability has dwindled considerably.

Personally, I'm very VERY happy with IYD - the album. And am extremely proud that Stevie released a solo record of its caliber at this time in her career. IMO, it's exactly the record that she's needed to record for a long time, probably since RAL. We can debate this forever, but I do strongly believe as a whole, IYD is a much stronger, cohesive record than TISL (and for me that is high praise, cause I loved TISL). And had IYD been released 10 years ago coming off the 2nd coming of Stevie Nicks following "The Dance" - IYD would have been a bigger hit album than TISL was imo.

Also consider, in addition to CD sales being 50% higher or more 10 years ago, communally we had a lot less distractions in our daily lives. Technology universally has sped us up and the outcome is a communal ADD-ish syndrome squeezing our attention spans to all time low thresholds for practically anything. We have everything at our fingertips...more music & entertainment then ever before to mull from, with very few people having the attention or desire to listen to a whole record by any one artist.

[skuncles]

As I said in my earlier post the ENTIRE industry is selling half of what it was selling a decade ago.
So if you want to judge how well In Your Dreams is selling, TISL shipped gold (shipped does not mean sold) gold (500,000 copies) after six weeks. As of 2011 it has SOLD roughly 660,000 copies. IYD is at about 121,000 sold so far. All things being equal and taking into account today's sales rate, if you cut TISL's sales in half for this point you get about 250,000 (shipped), if you double ITD's sale to date you get 242,000. It's right on par.
It's no different then when they list the highest grossing movies of all time, but to do so they adjust the numbers to today's ticket prices. "Star Wars" may have sold fewer tickets than say "Avatar", but when you jack up the 1977 ticket price to today, you see how it comes out in the top 5. Do the same thing with album sales.
For anyone who thought for a second IYD would sell on par with Bella Donna or The Wild Heart, you're insane. That was never going to happen with all the promotion in the world.
In Your Dreams is doing EXACTLY what any album from this point in Stevie's career would sell.

[Heartboy]

Stevie's age Age has nothin' to do with it, that was harsh.

[louielouie2000]

Age has nothin' to do with it, that was harsh.

Age has everything to do with it. As Stevie lectured us in the Destiny Rules Documentary, the people who buy albums these days are from the ages of 10-30. People that age are buying the albums by the young, hot artists who are getting top 40 radio play, whose songs are showing up in their favorite tv shows, etc. Stevie's in her 60s now, so she just isn't a force in that demographic anymore.

Keep in mind, Cher was the oldest woman to ever have a #1 hit... and Stevie's now a full decade older than Cher was when she had that #1 song. So me saying Stevie's age is a factor isn't a dig at her one iota, it's just a cold hard fact that the woman herself is well aware of. :)

[Christopher]

Age has nothin' to do with it, that was harsh.

I respectfully disagree. Age is indeed a factor to consider :nod:. There is more age bias today then ever before in Top 40 radio. Popular music is dominated by younger recording artists, even more blatantly manufactured as a "product". And, once your over 40, your appeal and commercial viability begins to dwindle twice as fast, even if your in the Dance/Pop or Hip Hop genre.

How many 60 year old+ female recording artists have sold over 100K cd's of a new release this year, or even a year back?? Even Madonna's last record 3 light years ago barely sold only over 700K copies in the US, and Madge is 10 years younger than Stevie and entrenched in the Dance/Pop genre. Had she not opportunistically teamed up w/ Justin Timberlake on her 1st and only hit single from that record, she probably would have sold much less.

[markolas]

Age has nothin' to do with it, that was harsh.

It wasn't harsh, and yes, it has a lot to do with it. Women over 30 (and that's probably being generous) do not sell records. It's been that way for at least 15 years. It's not a swipe against Stevie to say that.

[markolas]

Honestly, it's done better than I expected it to. After 10 years, I really wasn't expecting it to debut in the top ten, or anywhere near it. I agree with others who've said it's done about as well as anyone could've realistically expected it to. Which is a good thing.

[michelej1]

Robin Quivers then said that Lindsey Buckingham has a new album coming out and he says it's the best he's ever done.

What? Oh my goodness. I can't believe she knows anything about SWS. Great mention.

Michele

[APerfectLie]

As I said in my earlier post the ENTIRE industry is selling half of what it was selling a decade ago.
So if you want to judge how well In Your Dreams is selling, TISL shipped gold (shipped does not mean sold) gold (500,000 copies) after six weeks. As of 2011 it has SOLD roughly 660,000 copies. IYD is at about 121,000 sold so far. All things being equal and taking into account today's sales rate, if you cut TISL's sales in half for this point you get about 250,000 (shipped), if you double ITD's sale to date you get 242,000. It's right on par.
It's no different then when they list the highest grossing movies of all time, but to do so they adjust the numbers to today's ticket prices. "Star Wars" may have sold fewer tickets than say "Avatar", but when you jack up the 1977 ticket price to today, you see how it comes out in the top 5. Do the same thing with album sales.
For anyone who thought for a second IYD would sell on par with Bella Donna or The Wild Heart, you're insane. That was never going to happen with all the promotion in the world.
In Your Dreams is doing EXACTLY what any album from this point in Stevie's career would sell.

LOL WUT? Yeah, if you multiply IYD's sales by 10 it is doing amazing! Why would you cut TISL's sales in half AND double IYD's sales? You either cut TISL's sales in half OR double IYD, but doing both is pointless since you are then bringing TISL's sales up ten years and taking IYD's sales back ten years and comparing them. Record sales have fallen at 8% a year over the past ten years, meaning IYD should sell 43.44% of TISL. 43.44%*500,000=217,200 which leaves Stevie almost 100,000 short of where she should be.

[APerfectLie]

Age has everything to do with it. As Stevie lectured us in the Destiny Rules Documentary, the people who buy albums these days are from the ages of 10-30. People that age are buying the albums by the young, hot artists who are getting top 40 radio play, whose songs are showing up in their favorite tv shows, etc. Stevie's in her 60s now, so she just isn't a force in that demographic anymore.

Keep in mind, Cher was the oldest woman to ever have a #1 hit... and Stevie's now a full decade older than Cher was when she had that #1 song. So me saying Stevie's age is a factor isn't a dig at her one iota, it's just a cold hard fact that the woman herself is well aware of. :)

Age sure didn't keep Susan Boyle from selling 701,000 her first week in 2009... :shrug:

[Christopher]

LOL WUT? Yeah, if you multiply IYD's sales by 10 it is doing amazing! Why would you cut TISL's sales in half AND double IYD's sales? You either cut TISL's sales in half OR double IYD, but doing both is pointless since you are then bringing TISL's sales up ten years and taking IYD's sales back ten years and comparing them. Record sales have fallen at 8% a year over the past ten years, meaning IYD should sell 43.44% of TISL. 43.44%*500,000=217,200 which leaves Stevie almost 100,000 short of where she should be.

Agreed. Compared to TISL 2 months after its release sales wise, to where IYD is right now, Stevie would've had to sell over 200K copies to be equivalent. But that's only one simple black & white metric, and hardly a fair equivalency comparison overall for an artist who is not only 10 years older (not to mention also now eligible for AARP), but also 10 years absent from a marketplace that has changed unprecedentedly.

Considering all the variables, Stevie is doing pretty damn good! IYD is far from being a flop. Stevie's only outright flop out of the gate was "Street Angel". That's a pretty good bating record for a 4+ decade career. No doubt, Stevie's led a charmed life during the majority of her recording & touring career.

[Artemis]

I think Susan Boyle is the exception that proves the rule. She wouldn't have gotten anywhere without becoming viral after her BGT audition. :shrug:

The end of the year sales for Stevie should be interesting, if you compare her to others like Heart or even Sheryl Crow, she's doing fantastically well. I think she'll have sold about 250k this time next year, not very good by TISL standards, but certainly not a flop. Successful enough to carry on doing this, which is fantastic, I would say. :laugh:

[Christopher]

Age sure didn't keep Susan Boyle from selling 701,000 her first week in 2009... :shrug:

Apples and Oranges. How you'd even compare Stevie to Susan Boyle is beyond me. Besides being in a totally different genre, Susan was a reality star phenomenon & YouTube and headline news viral sensation due to her ugly duck turns swan transformation. You would've had to be living under a rock to not have heard the Susan Boyle story in 09". Rags to riches storyline aside, how Susan Boyle will sustain even over the next 5 years in completely questionable. Susan Boyle was something of a fluke.

[skuncles]

LOL WUT? Yeah, if you multiply IYD's sales by 10 it is doing amazing! Why would you cut TISL's sales in half AND double IYD's sales? You either cut TISL's sales in half OR double IYD, but doing both is pointless since you are then bringing TISL's sales up ten years and taking IYD's sales back ten years and comparing them. Record sales have fallen at 8% a year over the past ten years, meaning IYD should sell 43.44% of TISL. 43.44%*500,000=217,200 which leaves Stevie almost 100,000 short of where she should be.

No, no, no, I said to make it equal you'd have to cut TISL's in half OR double IYD's sales (this is to account for the overall decline of album sales across the board). I didn't say do both. TISL has sold a total of 600,000 some odd copies SINCE 2001. So take your 44% of that TOTAL and to see if IYD is comparable. Keep in mind TISL took a decade to SELL that many (not ship). Shipped copies can sit around in stores for a long time.
All I'm saying is IYD is on track to sell about the same as TISL.

[Morgana]

I wouldn't call IYD a flop considering all the variables involved. In thinking about your question I thought back to Stevie's first album 30 yrs ago and then the rest of FM members solo careers.

The question is: So.......why was Stevie the only member to achieve such great success?

I think the question should be: Successful?

[APerfectLie]

No, no, no, I said to make it equal you'd have to cut TISL's in half OR double IYD's sales (this is to account for the overall decline of album sales across the board). I didn't say do both. TISL has sold a total of 600,000 some odd copies SINCE 2001. So take your 44% of that TOTAL and to see if IYD is comparable. Keep in mind TISL took a decade to SELL that many (not ship). Shipped copies can sit around in stores for a long time.
All I'm saying is IYD is on track to sell about the same as TISL.

No, you said "IYD is at about 121,000 sold so far. All things being equal and taking into account today's sales rate, if you cut TISL's sales in half for this point you get about 250,000 (shipped), if you double ITD's sale to date you get 242,000. It's right on par." 121,000 is not on par with 250,000 and 242,000 sure isn't on par with 500,000.

Apples and Oranges. How you'd even compare Stevie to Susan Boyle is beyond me. Besides being in a totally different genre, Susan was a reality star phenomenon & YouTube and headline news viral sensation due to her ugly duck turns swan transformation. You would've had to be living under a rock to not have heard the Susan Boyle story in 09". Rags to riches storyline aside, how Susan Boyle will sustain even over the next 5 years in completely questionable. Susan Boyle was something of a fluke.

I wasn't making a comparison, I was simply pointing out that a woman over 40 can sell albums. Everyone uses Stevie's age as a huge reason she isn't topping the charts. Sure it plays a factor, but it isn't inconceivable for someone over 40 to sell an album. I'm not saying her album was a flop, because it sure wasn't. What I am saying is all everyone is saying here is "well when you consider her AGE" or "given her absence" or "nobody sells records these days" so SHE IS DOING GREAT, is bogus and are completely opinionated thoughts without any factual basis. Looking at the numbers, IYD is not as much of a commercial success as one would expect. We can make all the excuses we want to tell ourselves Mama is still a hot selling bitch, but on paper it doesn't matter. I definitely think IYD could have sold more. It sure has the opportunity to turn around in the next few months, but it doesn't change my love for Stevie either way. I just simply refuse to let the chiffon get to my head and convince myself IYD is a commercial masterpiece.

[Jondalar]

It was hard to choose either of the last two categories, because the reason I feel it's NOT a flop is not because I think it has sold well or because it will sell more. I think it's not a flop because it's been generally well received.

It's not an embarassment to the artist, the critics, and certainly not to Stevie fans. Stevie has done a lot of publicity for it and the jubilant kind -- not the "I can't wait until this press cycle is over" kind. No one has run away from the album in shame, as if they want to be absolved of responsibility for it. Dave, Stevie, everyone is as proud now as they were before it came out. Fans feel that they are taking away at least two or three classic songs from it that are as good as anything in Stevie's repertoire.

I don't know . . . regardless of sales, it's hard to consider this album a flop on any level.

Michele

I sorta agree with this post. This album is not Street Angel—it's good. It's a quality album and one of her best ever. It came out at a strange time in her career for the general public but came out at a great time for her real fans. It's a good album. She did the best she could with this and critics even like it. Somehow I think it will find its way into people's home.

[jellyman10]

I think it's her best solo work. She took risks on this one, and it paid off. I love the emotion, both joyous and melancholic, that's on display. The palette is interesting. The music is vibrant. And her voice really does carry all the weight of the life she has lived.

Dave deserves a lot of credit for the album's musical infrastructure, I'm sure, but I'm also sure that he isn't the first person to try and get Stevie to step outside of her comfort zone. The fact that she allowed herself to go there, at this point in her career, is noteworthy.

I can't bring myself to get excited or depressed or even interested in the sales figures. I know they matter somehow, in some way, but I really do think that the way that LB is releasing his album might be really good for Stevie too, as a future model if the traditional labels won't touch her again.

It seems obvious to me that all the signs point to Stevie (and Lindsey's) career coming full circle: they started out making music sort of in a vacuum, where nobody cared whether they did it or not.They just had to follow their own muses, and make what was in their hearts. I don't think they'll ever fall quite to the level where no one cares, but it will end up being all about the music again.

Loz

[STEVEHEDRICK]

I think she has exposed herself alot with this release, but cd's just don't sell anymore? too easy to steal off the internet!

[jwd]

None of the above. It's a fantastic new album from Stevie. Sales are irrelevant. It's all about artistic accomplishment. STEVIE NICKS IS INTERESTED IN MAKING NEW MUSIC AGAIN! :blob2::blob1::blob2:

[AliceLover]

NOBODY from the ages 10-30 buys music. I didn't even buy In Your Dreams yet, my mother bought a copy, but I ripped her copy onto my computer. No one has money to buy anything these days.

The era we live in has EVERYTHING to do with why IYD isn't selling right now. Internet piracy was no where near what it was in 2001 than what it is now. People were still buying music then.

[jrpjr]

no way is it a flop...overall the reviews are great...her fans are loving it.....its just not high up on charts due to volume...the world is a different place than it was 25-30 years ago...stevie made this album for her fans...herself...its a great piece of work..i love it...mostof us on here love it..i would say NO WAY is it a flop

[Bryan]

I can't bring myself to get excited or depressed or even interested in the sales figures. I know they matter somehow, in some way, but I really do think that the way that LB is releasing his album might be really good for Stevie too, as a future model if the traditional labels won't touch her again.

Loz

Yes! I'm shocked she's still doing things the same way. Just about every artist I love has ditched (or been ditched) by their labels due to interference/and or grievances with the people there. They set up their own labels,do things smaller but still meet the fans needs to a certain point.
Of course it's much more difficult to get things done and get out on the road beyond their home country but it's so worth it when it does happen.There are too many people in the Nicks camp for it to ever be scaled down though,sadly..she'll probably continue on the same path ,depending on what's in her contract though.I'd rather she got out of it.

[Bryan]

Really good points from everyone! & great discussion.
Good to still see that everyone gets their two cents in on here..there was a time on the Ledge however many years ago where there would be a few overbearing characters ,scaring some of us off:lol: So glad it's much more inclusive and civilised :)

[elle]

hmm... it seems that at any given time period there is always somebody that sells huge... there was a time when FM was selling huge. nowadays gaga, katy perry, rihanna sell huge... so when compared to many of her peers, stevie did really well, as others have said.

i am somewhat puzzled by all these statements that kids do not buy music anymore... i see many kids who are buying music - little kids buy CDs (well, parents buy for them:D). and although many teenagers download stuff illegally others do buy their music through services like itunes. in the times past, kids used to make their own casettes instead of buying records...

[mikephxaz]

I love the cd and I'm relatively happy with the sales and coverage....I think the majot difference between TISL and IYD is that Stevie's guests appearences like Crow, Dixie Chicks, Macy, and etc helped sales of TISL abit...i still contend if tom petty has done CTF or ELY or we had seen a few guests spots (taylor swift) that it would have stirred more interest in the album

[MrStevie]

I love the cd and I'm relatively happy with the sales and coverage....I think the majot difference between TISL and IYD is that Stevie's guests appearences like Crow, Dixie Chicks, Macy, and etc helped sales if TISL abit...i still contend if tom petty has done CTF or ELY or we had seen a few guests spots (taylor swift) that it would have stirred some interest in the album

I'm grateful for the lack of guest appearances. Love what Dave does on his own but I wish he was not included on ELY. I also wish CTF was left off the record altogether. :sorry:

[mikephxaz]

I'm grateful for the lack of guest appearances. Love what Dave does on his own but I wish he was not included on ELY. I also wish CTF was left off the record altogether. :sorry:

hey steve
i agree that i dont necessarily care for the guest spot appearences...i was suggesting that it may have caused some intial buzz for the cd if more contemporary artists had been attached the cd.
btw I COMPLETELY agree about your thoughts Dave's vocals

[michelej1]

It seems obvious to me that all the signs point to Stevie (and Lindsey's) career coming full circle: they started out making music sort of in a vacuum, where nobody cared whether they did it or not.They just had to follow their own muses, and make what was in their hearts. I don't think they'll ever fall quite to the level where no one cares, but it will end up being all about the music again.

Loz

This reminds me of the show where the sound went out in Madison on the second leg of the SYW tour and Stevie took the time out to recall that she and Lindsey started out touring small places with Fritz and they'd go from city to city and be up on stages where nothing worked, but she exclaimed " look where we are now!"

Up on stage where nothing works! That's where they are now, one fan pointed out. I thought that was very funny.

Michele

[MrStevie]

It seems obvious to me that all the signs point to Stevie (and Lindsey's) career coming full circle: they started out making music sort of in a vacuum, where nobody cared whether they did it or not.They just had to follow their own muses, and make what was in their hearts. I don't think they'll ever fall quite to the level where no one cares, but it will end up being all about the music again.

Loz

Wouldn't that be great? How realisitic is it from where they're sitting now? Reminds me of the clip on the SYW doc. Ray and Mick are mocking Lindsey behind his back about his artsy farsty attitude on the movie guy living in a two bedroom. Mick to Ray: "Lindsey, you're never going to be living in a two bedroom." Ray: Laughs his ass off. Can it ever really be all about the music ever again with either of those two divas? We're not seeing it with Stevie's ticket prices to say the least. :sorry:

This reminds me of the show where the sound went out in Madison on the second leg of the SYW tour and Stevie took the time out to recall that she and Lindsey started out touring small places with Fritz and they'd go from city to city and be up on stages where nothing worked, but she exclaimed " look where we are now!"

Up on stage where nothing works! That's where they are now, one fan pointed out. I thought that was very funny.

Michele

Now I'm reminded of something completely off topic. Stevie talking about wishing she could have played steak houses when they were struggling for money before joining FM. I think it was on some recently uploaded footage of Dance promo interviews on You Tube. Lindsey said playing the steak house circuit was "a one way ticket to palookaville." I thought that was funny :lol: but I wonder what Stevie thinks about songs from her most recent releases going straight to canned background muzak for a chain eatery? Last week I heard Annabel Lee over the PA at P.F. Changs in Fresno. :nod:

[elle]

what Stevie thinks about songs from her most recent releases going straight to canned background muzak for a chain eatery? Last week I heard Annabel Lee over the PA at P.F. Changs in Fresno. :nod:

:nod:heard secret love several times in the local kohl store, and also last week in harris teeter...

[jellyman10]

Can it ever really be all about the music ever again with either of those two divas? We're not seeing it with Stevie's ticket prices to say the least. :sorry:


That was why I used the future tense. I agree she's deffo squeezing the old model till the pips squeak at the moment, but reality will bite - probably after one more FM moolah jamboree - and she will have to embrace the DIY/collective route or just not put any new music out.

Two other factors that will make it easier for Stevie to downsize:
a) Dave will explain it to her and make it sound like the most fun thing ever!
b) Lindsey was forced to do it first

[jellyman10]

This reminds me of the show where the sound went out in Madison on the second leg of the SYW tour and Stevie took the time out to recall that she and Lindsey started out touring small places with Fritz and they'd go from city to city and be up on stages where nothing worked, but she exclaimed " look where we are now!"

Up on stage where nothing works! That's where they are now, one fan pointed out. I thought that was very funny.

Michele

That's perfect. :laugh::laugh:

[darklinensuit]

I voted for "flop" only because of the reason described in the poll choice: "I expected it to perform better."
Certainly I respect the top 10 debut, but IYD has fallen from sight. I expected it to perform better, even if Stevie is 63.
I'm not disappointed in the album itself, as I have said here on many occasions.

Here in Dallas I have yet to hear IYD played or mentioned anywhere. Last week one of several friends who saw her when she toured with Chris Isaak (they all thought he was great & she was terrible on that night) made a point to tell me he heard she was coming here in August. Even though this friend was aware of the upcoming show, he was shocked to hear from me that she has a new album out & it was recently in the top 10.

I do not entirely blame Stevie or her people for the charts, excepting that I still don't think "Secret Love" was the smart single to generate publicity. It is adult contemporary & so far has not translated well live (like "Every Day", it is just not the song to show off her voice, sorry). Audiences want to see in Stevie a woman who does not age & still knows how to rock (and sing effectively if often roughly). The album delivers, but people who hear only SL will never know it. I think Stevie is putting sufficient effort into publicity, but the strategy needs improving. Too-safe singles that sound weak live have jeopardized her popularity for 20 years, and with the music industry what it is today, she can afford them less and less.

- Jake

[jellyman10]

The album delivers, but people who hear only SL will never know it.

100% agree. The first single should've been the title track, imo, and she should've been ready to deliver it live from the get-go.

[seekerj]

I agree. Sales wise strictly, I'm a little disappointed IYD has not shifted over 200K by now in the US. As of last week it had sold over 120K in the US and over 10K in the UK, so it's probably @ 150K world wide - having charted in the top 40 album charts in @10 countries, which is still decent business for Stevie not having a high profile as a solo artist in 10 years and being a classic female rock artist of 63 years (young);)
I do think sales were affected (by how much we'll never know) being sick at the onset of release & canceling TV appearances and concerts and such.

But the album is far from being a considered a "flop". Now, had IYD sold 20K during it's debut week & @50k copies to date (in this new record sales reality), received lukewarm critical reviews, in addition to fans by & large being disappointed in it's contents & artistic merit - then, under these circumstances, IYD would absolutely be considered an outright flop by now. This album could still climb to over 200K in the US by years end, with her up coming tour, possible TV appearances on late shows, The IYD documentary with more promotional videos culled from that made available online. But I don't see it going Gold anytime soon, or her having another top 20 AC or top 25 triple AAA charting song:shrug:. The 1st release was her best chance of getting major radio exposure on those formats that will play her. Unless she has a fluke tie-in to a hit movie or TV show, the probability has dwindled considerably.

Personally, I'm very VERY happy with IYD - the album. And am extremely proud that Stevie released a solo record of its caliber at this time in her career. IMO, it's exactly the record that she's needed to record for a long time, probably since RAL. We can debate this forever, but I do strongly believe as a whole, IYD is a much stronger, cohesive record than TISL (and for me that is high praise, cause I loved TISL). And had IYD been released 10 years ago coming off the 2nd coming of Stevie Nicks following "The Dance" - IYD would have been a bigger hit album than TISL was imo.

Also consider, in addition to CD sales being 50% higher or more 10 years ago, communally we had a lot less distractions in our daily lives. Technology universally has sped us up and the outcome is a communal ADD-ish syndrome squeezing our attention spans to all time low thresholds for practically anything. We have everything at our fingertips...more music & entertainment then ever before to mull from, with very few people having the attention or desire to listen to a whole record by any one artist.


More cohesive in what sense? (Musically? If so, I don't see that.) Certainly not lyrically; there is no single theme to this album.

[dontlookdown]

i think you'll be surprised 6 months from now. it's selling very well in the UK and once the tour starts in the States, it will climb back up the charts.

two months in, it's already considered a huge critical success - and that's really all that matters these days.

it would have sucked if it sold huge amounts and got awful reviews, which is what most of the top of the charts acts get these days.

if you look at her peers - tom petty, robert plant, bruce springsteen, etc., they don't sell a lot records anymore either. but the reviews are generally great and the true fans stay loyal and go to the shows.

i think it's a really strong album. a bit too long and i could have done without Cheaper Than Free and Ghosts Are Gone. but aside from that, it's her strongest collection since Bella Donna.

i wish there was a legitimate video for For What's It's Worth (not one directed by Dave Stewart but by a really creative young director).

[Christopher]

More cohesive in what sense? (Musically? If so, I don't see that.) Certainly not lyrically; there is no single theme to this album.

This album just feels more substantial & complete. Every detail feels meticulously thought out, from the arrangements to the lyrical composition. The music is embellished subtly and is neither wasted or overwrought, same goes for the lyrics and vocals. There are several themes throughout the record, but that does not detract from the record feeling wholly conceived & cohesive. This is not a fragmented record. It a diverse, yet satisfying 4 course meal.

TISL was a fine record, but imo it suffered some overproduction, and too many producers, suffering from direction at times & Stevie sounded flat in places. And while TISL was supposably a concept record, IYD is more of a statement overall from Stevie. She wrote or co-wrote every single song and does not waste a word, while TISL had 3 cover songs not written by Stevie at all. For me, IYD is Stevie's best record since Bella Donna hands down :nod:. Its well crafted, and shows off Stevie's mélange perfectly. There is something for every taste on this record.

[tabruns]

This reminds me of the show where the sound went out in Madison on the second leg of the SYW tour and Stevie took the time out to recall that she and Lindsey started out touring small places with Fritz and they'd go from city to city and be up on stages where nothing worked, but she exclaimed " look where we are now!"

Up on stage where nothing works! That's where they are now, one fan pointed out. I thought that was very funny.

Michele

The sound didn't go out during the show. What happened was Lindsey was handed not one but two out of tune guitars prior to performing "Say Goodbye". That brought the show to a standstill until they got it sorted out, but the audience was patient with it.

[michelej1]

The sound didn't go out during the show. What happened was Lindsey was handed not one but two out of tune guitars prior to performing "Say Goodbye". That brought the show to a standstill until they got it sorted out, but the audience was patient with it.

Yes I was there and enjoyed the interlude, the push ups and Mick coming down and telling a little story (that featured out of tune guitars, in fact). I also liked Stevie making the Stella birth announcement.

Michele

[Bandon]

The key question is... does Stevie think it's a flop? My concern is that if she thinks it is a flop then she might not put out another solo CD for a very long time if at all. And frankly, I truly believe that Stevie's TISL and IYD CDs have way better songs and production than her stuff on Fleetwood Mac's TITN and SYW. Based on that, I'm really looking more forward to any future solo work than her involvement in FM. :nod:

[darklinensuit]

Based on that, I'm really looking more forward to any future solo work than her involvement in FM. :nod:

But what if she brings Dave on board as producer for the next Mac album, would you still feel this way?

- Jake

[tabruns]

The key question is... does Stevie think it's a flop? My concern is that if she thinks it is a flop then she might not put out another solo CD for a very long time if at all. And frankly, I truly believe that Stevie's TISL and IYD CDs have way better songs and production than her stuff on Fleetwood Mac's TITN and SYW. Based on that, I'm really looking more forward to any future solo work than her involvement in FM. :nod:

Apparently she doesn't think it's a flop. As she said in one of the British interviews, 'It's just kind of simmering in there, which is great..."

I think "For What It's Worth" is a great song but I haven't heard anything at all about it since it was tapped as the 2nd single. Has anyone reported any radio ads or anything?

[GoldDustOrphan]

Can anyone think of the last top 10 hit by an artist over 40? Or even the last top 20 hit?

[HejiraNYC]

Can anyone think of the last top 10 hit by an artist over 40? Or even the last top 20 hit?

"On the Floor" - Jennifer Lopez, a few months ago.

"New York" - Jay Z, a year or so ago.

"Hey Soul Sister" - Train (Pat Monahan is over 40), late last year.

"Welcome to Burlesque" - Cher (#1 dance), earlier this year.

[Christopher]

Can anyone think of the last top 10 hit by an artist over 40? Or even the last top 20 hit?

The only one that comes to mind is the atrocious "4 minutes (to save the world) by Madonna featuring Justin Timberlake in 08'. But one must wonder had Madge not enlisted JT & Timbaland, would "4 minutes" or a different Madonna single not featuring the then hot collaborators, have had the same impact on the Top 10 pop singles charts 3 yrs ago. :shrug:

I'm very happy this time out that Stevie ditched any high-profile duet or collaboration with a younger or current hit maker to have potentially more marketability. I would've cringed at such a calculation at this point.

[GoldDustOrphan]

They all barely cross the finish line.

Lopez, 41. A barely sung dance song with 8 credited writers and a highly sexualized video and rapper Pitbull, age 30.

Jay-Z, 41, but 30-year Alicia Keys served the hook. How old was Jay-Z when it was a hit.

I'll give you Train since Pat Monahan,42, was 40 when the song was released in 2009. But, he still required the services of Espionage, expensive hitmakers who typically work alongside of Stargate constructing hits for Beyonce, Chris Brown. It's expensive hit-making by committee. They had to order out for a hit.

Hot Dance Club Play represents what reporting club DJs say they're playing but doesn't accurately reflect what they are playing. Cher's song had no longevity, no spins at radio, etc. No consumer awareness; I wouldn't consider that a "hit."

I'm trying to think 50+. Hmmm.

[Christopher]

They all barely cross the finish line.

Lopez, 41. A barely sung dance song with 8 credited writers and a highly sexualized video and rapper Pitbull, age 30.

Jay-Z, 41, but 30-year Alicia Keys served the hook. How old was Jay-Z when it was a hit.

I'll give you Train since Pat Monahan,42, was 40 when the song was released in 2009. But, he still required the services of Espionage, expensive hitmakers who typically work alongside of Stargate constructing hits for Beyonce, Chris Brown. It's expensive hit-making by committee. They had to order out for a hit.

Hot Dance Club Play represents what reporting club DJs say they're playing but doesn't accurately reflect what they are playing. Cher's song had no longevity, no spins at radio, etc. No consumer awareness; I wouldn't consider that a "hit."

I'm trying to think 50+. Hmmm.

This all reminded me of NPR's recent article on the high cost of business to achieve the almighty hit single in the music industry today (@$78,000 to make a song, and another $1 million to roll it out). http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/05/137530847/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-hit-song

To really narrow in on the ageism that is prevalent overall, just focus on the Top 40 pop singles chart. Sure, you may see the occasional 40+ artist prevail, but it more rare than not. Even Stevie's last Top 20 pop song "Rooms On Fire" charted when she was 41. Madonna was 49 when she last charted in the Top 10 pop charts, and even though she is a dance/pop artist, she will have an uphill battle next time out on the pop singles charts.

[HejiraNYC]

They all barely cross the finish line.

Lopez, 41. A barely sung dance song with 8 credited writers and a highly sexualized video and rapper Pitbull, age 30.

Jay-Z, 41, but 30-year Alicia Keys served the hook. How old was Jay-Z when it was a hit.

I'll give you Train since Pat Monahan,42, was 40 when the song was released in 2009. But, he still required the services of Espionage, expensive hitmakers who typically work alongside of Stargate constructing hits for Beyonce, Chris Brown. It's expensive hit-making by committee. They had to order out for a hit.

Hot Dance Club Play represents what reporting club DJs say they're playing but doesn't accurately reflect what they are playing. Cher's song had no longevity, no spins at radio, etc. No consumer awareness; I wouldn't consider that a "hit."

I'm trying to think 50+. Hmmm.


Well, I think you have just proven the point that it's not age as much as it is the lengths that artists will go to have a hit song. It is a bit of a factory-manufactured process these days. And the reason why hits appear to fall along age demographic lines is because most older artists are probably not willing to play the game and/or compromise their integrity. I do believe that Stevie could absolutely have a hit if she subjected herself to the process- an army of external songwriters, producers, remixers and focus groups to manipulate each note and beat until it is basically homogenized into everything else you hear on commercial radio these days. Or Stevie could go totally Nashville and churn out countrified adult contemporary garbage like Lady Antebellum. So despite the fact that Stevie clearly wants hit records, she doesn't want them that badly. And thank goodness for that!

[Bandon]

But what if she brings Dave on board as producer for the next Mac album, would you still feel this way?

- Jake

Now that would peak my interest! As long as it wasn't Lindsey producing. :nod:

[goyourownway]

Age has nothin' to do with it, that was harsh.

That's not harsh, it's honest.

[Bubba Fleetwood]

I was in a Barnes & Noble on Thursday and they were playing, "In Your Dreams" the cd, not just the song, the whole time I was in the store. I thought that was pretty cool.

[vivfox]

I was in a Barnes & Noble on Thursday and they were playing, "In Your Dreams" the cd, not just the song, the whole time I was in the store. I thought that was pretty cool.


Your boobies must have been bouncing up and down to the beat.

Where have you been lately?

[Spikey]

Your boobies must have been bouncing up and down to the beat.
Only Viv could say something like that..


Overall, really good thread, with a much more realistic perspective about the album versus the somewhat optimistic jubilation ("It's her best album since BD!") after the release. I can say that beause I was overly negative towards the album, critical of Secret Love, etc.

My wife was playing IYD album in the car earlier in the week. i didn't realise, and was like, "man, what's this edgy, interesting SN song? Are you listening to a demo or something baby?". She laughes, and says, "this is the single from the new album, remember? The one you don't like?". I had to eat humble pie on that one.

I don't think you could reasonably call it a flop. I do believe you could call it disappointing, not for age, or market reasons, but because the promotion for the album has been non-existent. I think someone watching from the wings with interest is a certain Mr Buckingham, who's probably feeling a lot better about an indie release, given that Stevie's GREAT album has gotten positive reviews with the critics, but has no hit single, or even much airplay to speak of. Ironically, that's the exact situation that has unfolded with almost every LB album.

I just hope the tour helps, and that she speedily picks another single, preferably the title piece, which as someone said in this thread is a rockier number. Secret Love is a good song, but it isn't an iconic Nicks composition, whereas IYD is much more radio friendly (ironically, I think the exact reverse logic would have helped in choosing the SYW album singles, but that's another story).


Come on WB, don't leave Mama in the lurch..

[RockALittle250]

I find it interesting that many people are saying Stevie did not have a hit single with this album.

I'll give you some perspective. I live in the NY metro area, so top 40 pop is the big thing here. We have one of the largest radio markets in the country also, so there is diversity. Last year, Heart released their single "Hey You" to much acclaim and airplay. It was considering a hit single, and peaked at number 26 on the adult contemporary charts.

In Stevie's case, her single was not touted as much in the media by those who were praising her album, but I heard it an equal number of times on radio from February to about June (a couple of times a day in some cases) and "Secret Love" peaked at number 20 on the adult contemporary charts.

My point is, Heart's single got more word-of-mouth and was "considered" a hit, even though Stevie's single has charted higher on the same chart and is played on the same radio outlets.

[tabruns]

I find it interesting that many people are saying Stevie did not have a hit single with this album.

I'll give you some perspective. I live in the NY metro area, so top 40 pop is the big thing here. We have one of the largest radio markets in the country also, so there is diversity. Last year, Heart released their single "Hey You" to much acclaim and airplay. It was considering a hit single, and peaked at number 26 on the adult contemporary charts.

In Stevie's case, her single was not touted as much in the media by those who were praising her album, but I heard it an equal number of times on radio from February to about June (a couple of times a day in some cases) and "Secret Love" peaked at number 20 on the adult contemporary charts.

My point is, Heart's single got more word-of-mouth and was "considered" a hit, even though Stevie's single has charted higher on the same chart and is played on the same radio outlets.

I think this is a really good point. Thank you for posting this.

The one thing I would say is that Heart hasn't had a decent sized AC hit since "The Woman In Me" back in 1993 or so, whereas Stevie's last album did have two sizable AC hits with "Everyday" and "Sorcerer". So for Stevie, this is maintaining, whereas for Heart "Hey You" really did do better than they had been.

[tabruns]

Only Viv could say something like that..


Overall, really good thread, with a much more realistic perspective about the album versus the somewhat optimistic jubilation ("It's her best album since BD!") after the release. I can say that beause I was overly negative towards the album, critical of Secret Love, etc.

My wife was playing IYD album in the car earlier in the week. i didn't realise, and was like, "man, what's this edgy, interesting SN song? Are you listening to a demo or something baby?". She laughes, and says, "this is the single from the new album, remember? The one you don't like?". I had to eat humble pie on that one.

I don't think you could reasonably call it a flop. I do believe you could call it disappointing, not for age, or market reasons, but because the promotion for the album has been non-existent. I think someone watching from the wings with interest is a certain Mr Buckingham, who's probably feeling a lot better about an indie release, given that Stevie's GREAT album has gotten positive reviews with the critics, but has no hit single, or even much airplay to speak of. Ironically, that's the exact situation that has unfolded with almost every LB album.

I just hope the tour helps, and that she speedily picks another single, preferably the title piece, which as someone said in this thread is a rockier number. Secret Love is a good song, but it isn't an iconic Nicks composition, whereas IYD is much more radio friendly (ironically, I think the exact reverse logic would have helped in choosing the SYW album singles, but that's another story).


Come on WB, don't leave Mama in the lurch..

"Secret Love" was a hit single, and "For What It's Worth" has already been picked as the 2nd single.

[AliceLover]

Listen, I LOVE Secret Love. I think it is one of the best singles she has put out since the 80's. I love everything about the song. But let's be honest, as much as we can sugarcoat is as diehards...no one knows what the f*ck Secret Love is.