Too much Dave Stewart?

[TrueFaith77]

I gave a friend of mine a copy of In Your Dreams and when he looked at the back cover he said: "Yuck! What is he doing all over this?" (We then laughed when I reminded him how Annie Lennox is similarly a camera hog--as in her disgusting display at the Oscars the year her LotR song won). Anyway, my friend further complained (when he looked at the credits): Glenn Ballard and Chris Lord-Alge are all more famous than he is. Anyway, 'twas an interesting observation from someone who hasn't really looked at the making of the album and its promotion. And it begs the question: Is there too much Dave Stewart integrated in the packaging/promotion of this album?

Thoughts?

[louielouie2000]

No. He is the architect of this entire project. He's a collaborator on this project to the degree that he probably should have been named on the album cover... or at least should have been pictured on the cover. Think about it. He basically wrote the music to half the songs. He undoubtedly got a few lyrics in there too. He filmed the entire project for a documentary, which was his idea. He took most of the photographs which this project is known for. He created the sizzle real/trailer. He's directing the music videos for the album's singles. He duetted on 2 songs. He produced pretty much every single track. He probably played instruments on every single track. He coaxed some of the best vocals out of Stevie in decades. He communicated with the fans during the entire process. He ended up helping Stevie create her best album since the 1980s. If anything, he deserves more recognition. It honestly annoys me that Stevie fans think he should disappear. He IS the sound of this album. He crafted it's look, too. If anything, he almost deserves a co-title for this album, in my opinion.

[olive]

I gave a friend of mine a copy of In Your Dreams and when he looked at the back cover he said: "Yuck! What is he doing all over this?" (We then laughed when I reminded him how Annie Lennox is similarly a camera hog--as in her disgusting display at the Oscars the year her LotR song won). Anyway, my friend further complained (when he looked at the credits): Glenn Ballard and Chris Lord-Alge are all more famous than he is. Anyway, 'twas an interesting observation from someone who hasn't really looked at the making of the album and its promotion. And it begs the question: Is there too much Dave Stewart integrated in the packaging/promotion of this album?

Thoughts?

NO! and Annie ROCKS !

[tabruns]

I don't take it quite as far as louielouie, but I do think Dave deserves a lot of credit. While I consider this very much Stevie's album, I think she and Dave together really produced something amazing and special.

[Artemis]

I don't think there's too much Dave at all; clearly Stevie's extremely grateful for what he did, and so am I. Like Louie said; he wrote the music for most of the songs, no Dave Stewart = No Album.

[TerraRhiannon]

I agree with Louie, & I am really happy it was Dave that collaborated with her. Dave deserves probably more credit than he's getting! A co-title would have been awesome. I loved how Elton & Leon made a co-title album, & I think Stevie is at that spot in her career where it wouldn't hurt her to do that. Think about it - if Stevie made the album solely with Lindsey's collaboration, it probably would have been called Buckingham-Nicks. But I guess Stevie made a song on her new album with Dave, So... I have no idea. Just my input. :thumbsup:

[RockAlot]

This entire project also has Stevie's approval from front to back, if she wanted to put tony the tiger on the back of the cd she could probally have it done. She wants to give credit where credit id due, she clearly appreciate's all that Dave has done.

[STEVEHEDRICK]

dave did a great job nobody else could have done this!

[TerraRhiannon]

This entire project also has Stevie's approval from front to back, if she wanted to put tony the tiger on the back of the cd she could probally have it done. She wants to give credit where credit id due, she clearly appreciate's all that Dave has done.

Yes! I love how Stevie is like that, she seems to always put others first, & want the best for all of her collaborators & friends. She's just pure amazing.:D

[fumidesigns]

No. He is the architect of this entire project. He's a collaborator on this project to the degree that he probably should have been named on the album cover... or at least should have been pictured on the cover. Think about it. He basically wrote the music to half the songs. He undoubtedly got a few lyrics in there too. He filmed the entire project for a documentary, which was his idea. He took most of the photographs which this project is known for. He created the sizzle real/trailer. He's directing the music videos for the album's singles. He duetted on 2 songs. He produced pretty much every single track. He probably played instruments on every single track. He coaxed some of the best vocals out of Stevie in decades. He communicated with the fans during the entire process. He ended up helping Stevie create her best album since the 1980s. If anything, he deserves more recognition. It honestly annoys me that Stevie fans think he should disappear. He IS the sound of this album. He crafted it's look, too. If anything, he almost deserves a co-title for this album, in my opinion.

louie my dear! are you feeling ok today!? no way should he have been on the album cover! don't make me come down there and get you!

yes he did a wonderful job...............but those are Stevie's journals. was it really HIS sounds.........or her ideas and he made them come to light? ionno...........i kinda find it hard to believe with all the demos this woman has that whoever produces her music throws that sound in the garbage and makes up a brand new one all the time. or am i wrong? am i to know that none of her demos sound ANYTHING like the song on the albums?

r we really going to say that stevie IS as good as WHO SHE WORKS WITH?

[Christopher]

louie my dear! are you feeling ok today!? no way should he have been on the album cover! don't make me come down there and get you!

yes he did a wonderful job...............but those are Stevie's journals. was it really HIS sounds.........or her ideas and he made them come to light? ionno...........i kinda find it hard to believe with all the demos this woman has that whoever produces her music throws that sound in the garbage and makes up a brand new one all the time. or am i wrong? am i to know that none of her demos sound ANYTHING like the song on the albums?

r we really going to say that stevie IS as good as WHO SHE WORKS WITH?

Amen!!! I mean...kudos obviously go to Dave for gaining Stevie trust, holding the project together from beginning to end & propelling Stevie to make another classic. But it's one thing to get co-writing credit on 7 songs, co-producer & musican credit, and have a picture or two in the liner notes, but album cover credit!! You've got to be kidding!! This is a Stevie Nicks project through and through! The storytelling, the sentiments, the poetry & prose, the phrasing, THE VOICE!! There is also no denying Dave stayed as true as possible to all of Stevie's demos. LFTM into Moonlight, Secret Love, and Annabel Lee borrows the same guitar riffs (almost note by note) and structure of the demo minus Waddy's little minuet addition.

So my answer to the threads question at hand is I do not think there is too much Dave on this record - because there is simply no way to upstage Stevie herself. Her personality and uniqueness are indelible stamps that cannot be overshadowed. Dave, being an artist himself, clearly understood Stevie's quirks in style & art, as well as her singing and songwriting magic, and was able to crystalize it in a way that has not been done since FM (1st 4 Buckingham Nicks albums) or Jimmy Iovine.

[markolas]

It honestly annoys me that Stevie fans think he should disappear.

Well, since you said it first...:)

The attitude that this isn't really a Stevie record because she collaborated on the songs annoys me, in general. I get the feeling that some fans would be disappointed with any Stevie release where it wasn't just her banging away on the piano, and rambling incoherently, a la Mabel Normand.

[michelej1]

No. He is the architect of this entire project. He's a collaborator on this project to the degree that he probably should have been named on the album cover... or at least should have been pictured on the cover.

The horse was bad enough.

Michele

[sara1998]

The horse was bad enough.

Michele

hahaha!!! I'm not feeling the cover either!

I think credit was given where credit was due. This was definitely Stevie's album, and Dave did an amazing job with it, but that's as far as it goes.

[mylittledemon]

Glenn Ballard and Chris Lord-Alge are all more famous than he is. Anyway, 'twas an interesting observation from someone who hasn't really looked at the making of the album and its promotion. And it begs the question: Is there too much Dave Stewart integrated in the packaging/promotion of this album?

Thoughts?

Depends on the circle you're in. A lot of people might know Annie Lennox/Eurthymics and Dave Stewart but have no clue as to who Ballard and Lord-Alge are. I'd say Lord Alge is the least well known of the 3.

[sparky]

I gave a friend of mine a copy of In Your Dreams and when he looked at the back cover he said: "Yuck! What is he doing all over this?" (We then laughed when I reminded him how Annie Lennox is similarly a camera hog--as in her disgusting display at the Oscars the year her LotR song won). Anyway, my friend further complained (when he looked at the credits): Glenn Ballard and Chris Lord-Alge are all more famous than he is. Anyway, 'twas an interesting observation from someone who hasn't really looked at the making of the album and its promotion. And it begs the question: Is there too much Dave Stewart integrated in the packaging/promotion of this album?

Thoughts?

Twas an uneducated observation made by a douchebag.

If anyone has issues with Dave's visual prominence, talk to Stevie. She put him on the back cover. And consented to him being in the videos.

First off, the majority of human beings on earth wouldn't know Ballard or Lord-Alge if bitten on the butt by either of them. Well regarded in the industry? Certainly. Famous? Please. Dave is recognized by anyone who has a thumbnail knowledge of the 80's and 90's music scene. So he actually is more "famous" than either of them.

And Annie Lennox being "disgusting" in any way at any point in her career?

That is a foul statement.

If anything, she is modest considering her vast talent, world class beauty, and selfless dedication to charitable concerns.

[Meowi]

I don't care, he is talented.

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[jellyman10]

I think credit was given where credit was due. This was definitely Stevie's album, and Dave did an amazing job with it, but that's as far as it goes.

Agreed. It's preposterous to suggest a formal co-credit.

[blemelin]

Stevie has said a couple of times that, thanks to Dave Stewart, this has been the best year of her life. There was also a comment by her in one of the earlier articles that she wants Dave to produce the next Fleetwood Mac album. She's stated over and over again the following: how much fun she had making this album with him, she's never written songs with anyone else (not Lindsey, not Tom, not Don, not Christine), she knows only six chords and he knows six hundred, and she gave him a 50-page journal and he actually read it and came back with ideas for songs. She also said that he's like "all of the Beatles rolled into one."

I'm a big fan of Eurythmics and have seen them live and up close a number of times. I can hear Mr. Stewart's musicianship and audio expertise throughout the album. His arrangements and guitar playing are obvious all over the place. He provided an excellent structure for Stevie's performance.

As for Annie Lennox being a disgusting camera hog, you are out of your mind.

[TrueFaith77]

There was also a comment by her in one of the earlier articles that she wants Dave to produce the next Fleetwood Mac album.

you are out of your mind.

I am out of my mind? And my friend is a db? Wow, you guys know me and my friend less than I know Annie Lennox. So I'll leave it to the reader to decide who is "out of your mind" and who is a db.

Anyway, if such personal attacks are "OK" with the moderators, then I'll put up with them.

However, you actually bring up an interesting point that solidies my feelings that Dave Stewart should not be so present in this project as a visual presence. Dave Stewart's involvement in the project (for better--he's an ace at bringing out songwriter's voice--and for worse--his music video directing) earns acknowledgement; however, can anyone imagine him being on the cover or even the back cover of a Fleetwood Mac album along with the rest of the band?

[olive]

It would be cool if Dave became a member of Fleetwood Mac

[Ghosty]

I think there is no right or wrong answer on the Dave topic. Maybe it depends on how much you like him, and what you were craving and dreaming of for the next Stevie cd.

It's similar to TISL. I have never been a Sheryl Crow fan. In fact, many of her songs were kind of like fingernails on a chalk board to me. So when I heard she was producing, i was not thrilled. then she seemed to drop the ball and leave stevie hanging, delaying the cd, and stevie had to find another producer (which ended up a g0od thing, to me). then having sheryl singing so much on the cd, writing a song for it, being in the sorcerer video, pics in the cd, on tour, in interviews with stevie, it drove me crazy. if you loved sheryl crow, maybe none of that mattered to you. so maybe it's like that with dave on IYD?

i always liked the eurythmics. and hearing dave on cheaper than free, i loved it. i thought his voice sounded great with stevie's. he sounded quite sexy, actually. imo, anyways. i think he's very talented and creative, and can be a hoot as well. i love his major contribution to this cd (although i'm STILL waiting to hear the cd in good quality sound, whenever barnes and noble ship it to me!!!!!!ughhhhh!!!). i love the pic of stevie and dave on the back of the cd. love the cheaper than free video.

but i can understand how some people feel. because i felt that way about sheryl on TISL.


after TISL i was hoping stevie would work with John Shanks again on her next cd. but since not, dave is an awesome choice. i cannot wait to get this cd!!!!!!!! everytime i'm in the car, every time i's sitting around, or cleaning, or whatever, i think, "I could be listening to stevie's new cd right now!" oh woe is me.............................................lol!

[fumidesigns]

It would be cool if Dave became a member of Fleetwood Mac

And THIS is how the fight btwn Indsey and Dave got started!!!!! Imagine that!!!!! Naaaaaaah this will not be happening :lol: lindsey aint tryna hear it.............

[TrueFaith77]

And THIS is how the fight btwn Indsey and Dave got started!!!!! Imagine that!!!!! Naaaaaaah this will not be happening :lol: lindsey aint tryna hear it.............

I totally agree.

[olive]

And THIS is how the fight btwn Indsey and Dave got started!!!!! Imagine that!!!!! Naaaaaaah this will not be happening :lol: lindsey aint tryna hear it.............

_-_-___-____________________________

[Artemis]

And THIS is how the fight btwn Indsey and Dave got started!!!!! Imagine that!!!!! Naaaaaaah this will not be happening :lol: lindsey aint tryna hear it.............

Dave would just remove his sunglasses and therefore fry Lindsey with his optic eye beams. For I am convinced that Dave Stewart is Cyclops. Of The X-Men.

On a more serious note, I'd loove to see Dave produce the next Fleetwood Mac album, but, I don't think they'll change the lineup now; unless Christine magically decides to come back.

[fumidesigns]

^^ say whaaaaaaaaat!?

And that's how the fight btwn Olive and The Ledge got started!!! :lol:

[olive]

^^ say whaaaaaaaaat!?

And that's how the fight btwn Olive and The Ledge got started!!! :lol:

really?

i removed my post because a childish pissing contest wasn't worth it ...

[fumidesigns]

Dave would just remove his sunglasses and therefore fry Lindsey with his optic eye beams. For I am convinced that Dave Stewart is Cyclops. Of The X-Men.

On a more serious note, I'd loove to see Dave produce the next Fleetwood Mac album, but, I don't think they'll change the lineup now; unless Christine magically decides to come back.

And since we know that that will never hapen (Christine), we know that dave will not be producing mac's new album.

If Lindsey takes a step back and let's Dave produce I'd be be so shocked and scared it'd make my skin turn white......and I'm not talkin about being ashy either!

Lindsey's ego must be stroked at all times! U know he came up in that house knowing that he was the ish because stevie just HAD to call him for Solider's Angel!!!! Nah.......Dave is not gonna produce a damn thing when it comes to the Mac!!!

[fumidesigns]

really?

i removed my post because a childish pissing contest wasn't worth it ...

U shouldn't have removed it. I thought it was funny!

[Artemis]

Nah.......Dave is not gonna produce a damn thing when it comes to the Mac!!!

I don't know... didn't Stevie say she wasn't interested in doing any other projects unless Dave was involved? He might be co-Producer with Lindsey on another Fleetwood Mac album. I think in Stevie's eyes, it might be - No Dave = No new album. And in the case of Fleetwood Mac, at this stage in the game, No Stevie Nicks = No new Fleetwood Mac album.

I mean, if Lindsey and Dave could work together, the results could be incredible. Lindsey's production is great, but sometimes veers off into the "weird" category. :laugh:

[fumidesigns]

I don't know... didn't Stevie say she wasn't interested in doing any other projects unless Dave was involved? He might be co-Producer with Lindsey on another Fleetwood Mac album. I think in Stevie's eyes, it might be - No Dave = No new album. And in the case of Fleetwood Mac, at this stage in the game, No Stevie Nicks = No new Fleetwood Mac album.

I mean, if Lindsey and Dave could work together, the results could be incredible. Lindsey's production is great, but sometimes veers off into the "weird" category. :laugh:

You have a point. Ionno tho.........it might take a loooooooooong time for that album to come out lmao!

[Christopher]

However, you actually bring up an interesting point that solidies my feelings that Dave Stewart should not be so present in this project as a visual presence. Dave Stewart's involvement in the project (for better--he's an ace at bringing out songwriter's voice--and for worse--his music video directing) earns acknowledgement; however, can anyone imagine him being on the cover or even the back cover of a Fleetwood Mac album along with the rest of the band?

You bring up a valid point about Daves video directing. Having not voiced it yet mostly because everyone seemed to be enjoying the SL vid, but it left me cringing inside a little. While I'm happy Dave persuaded Stevie to film a documentary of the making of IYD, his "dreamscapes" so far leave little to be desired for me. I enjoyed the CTF documentary style video far more than the subpar cinematography and styling of the SL vid. Some of the shots of Stevie full on are unflattering and lit too harshly. While Micks little drummer boy is barely drumming at all :confused: and when he does, he's off beat from the track so much that my OCD brain almost detonates. Its all in the little details - the lighting & editing. It could have been so much better. SL dos not hold a candle to her TISL videos imo. "Everyday" was a beautifully shot piece of film. Stevie never looked better. And "Sorcerer" was beautiful albeit more understated as well.

And no, I cannot imagine Dave being on the back cover of the next FM cover. It's not comparable - even if he co-produces and adds some music nuances here and there - simply because most of the music (even if he co-writes with Stevie again) will be sorted out for the most part by Lindsey, John & Mick with Stevie and Dave adding suggestions. Dave will not be as dominate a musical force or director as he was for IYD. Having said that, I really hope Dave is brought on board and a new FM record happens.

[TrueFaith77]

^^Very thoughtful post, Christopher.

I also believe that if there is another Mac album, Dave Stewart will be involved at least as co-writer of some of Stevie's songs and most probably as co-producer (with the band). And I don't mind one bit. I just don't think he should join the band nor should he be a visual presence.

[fumidesigns]

^^Very thoughtful post, Christopher.

I also believe that if there is another Mac album, Dave Stewart will be involved at least as co-writer of some of Stevie's songs and most probably as co-producer (with the band). And I don't mind one bit. I just don't think he should join the band nor should he be a visual presence.

y is it that i can totally see there being a prob w/ Dave being a co-writer on Stevie's work, and not Lindsey, when LINDSEY would be right there? ionno.........not saying he's super petty like that, but i just don't see this sitting easy with this group.

i could be DEAD wrong.............but i just don't see this happening.

[tabruns]

It seems like Dave lets Stevie take the lead in how the songs turn out. Like she's said, he would just look at her expression and he could tell when she didn't like the direction a song was taking. He'd then stop and change it.

Whereas with Lindsey I could see Lindsey being a lot more willing to argue that the direction he wants to take a song is the right one.

I could see Dave being involved with the next Mac album somehow - either as co-writer with Stevie or co-producer with Lindsey or possibly as a member of the band.

[fumidesigns]

so i'm guessing that no one remembers the whole Sheryl Crow joining the band thing and the look on Lindsey's face? lol! he was like, something like, "so what songs are she going to sing? she can't sing christine's and she damn sure can sing her own" lol!

i can see it now...........

Stevie walks through the door, as beautiful as ever, and Dave comes in right behind her. everybody seems cool, but as soon as dave and stevie start talkin about a song and how it should go...........or maybe dave get her to change the tense of a song and Lindsey doesn't her "would you say that to bob dylan?" , ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE!!! all you hear is "crash*, "bam", *boom*!!!!!

[KarmaContestant]

I don't think Dave will ever be a member of Fleetwood Mac. Why would he even want to? He's made a name for himself, and is respected among his peers. Joining Fleetwood Mac would just make him 'the new guy' and relegate him to the status of the person with the least amount of say or influence.

I won't be surprised if he produces their next record (if there ever really is one, which I doubt very much will actually happen), but I expect that will be the end of his involvement.

[Christopher]

Any musings of Dave joining FM is preposterous:rolleyes:. Whereas Dave being a co-writer (mostly on some of Stevie's tracks) and a co-producer is more in line with reality.