Your opinion on "demos"

[HighPassion]

So, I'm getting a bit of a moral dilemma. I want to know what other Stevie Nicks fans think as well (especially those who collect tonnes of demos).


When I first got into Stevie/Mac, I had a hayday with collecting as many bootlegs and demos etc. as I could because I was thrilled to hear them. I love hearing studio work and how a song progresses into the final product. Or different interpretations of them from previous generations. It utterly fascinated me (and it still does).

I remember collecting all of them, and my dad (who is a huge music buff and somewhat works in the music scene) would tell me that he remembers artists used to give away demo tapes and soundboard shows to fans a lot in the 70's. He even had a demo tape of some Rumours tracks but misplaced it somewhere. Trust me, I've been after him since the day I found out about that to find it haha. But he hasn't. I've kind of given up hope.

Anywho, getting back on topic. I just assumed that these demos and stuff came from FM/Stevie giving tapes to fans and all that jazz.

Then the moral dilemma started...

I remember watching a copy of the uncut VH1 Storytellers, and a fan asked her about "Forest of the Black Roses" and "The Tower" (I think?). And Stevie was clearly PISSED. As she explained that those tapes of unreleased stuff came about because somebody actually went in and stole her tapes and copied them out to people. Like, she definitely held onto that grudge all those years.

So I kind of backed off from listening to the unreleased stuff after hearing that. Just to kind of respect her. I would still listen to audience bootlegs and soundboard shows though - I personally don't see the harm in those. Every band has them.

Like Jimmy Page once said, "You know you've finally gotten somewhere when someone starts to bootleg your show."

However, those unreleased songs are quite a different story. So I stopped listening to them, and stayed satisfied with my released Stevie material. I know that if there are songs she wants us to hear, she'll get them to us eventually (sometimes it takes longer than others).

And I also recall her saying once, if the song isn't out yet - there's a reason for it. It hasn't been perfected yet, it's still missing something and is she was waiting for someone to give it that extra zing that it needs. I think she was referring to Planets of the Universe when she said that, but I'm not sure. So I figured, fair enough.


Then I kind of forgot about all that, and with In Your Dreams coming out, my Stevie fever came back and I have been coming on here trading demos and getting more demos and having a hayday.

THEN I heard an interview with her where they were talking about "Secret Love", and how she was annoyed how all her unreleased stuff is now all over youtube. She said it was good in a sense that she was able to find that song again, but mad because that meant someone STOLE her tapes etc. And it brought back all my guilty memories of collecting unreleased stuff.

So my question to you all is, should a legit Stevie fan respect her wishes, and keep those songs locked up in a box like she has done? Or should we not worry about listening to them, being as she may never get around to recording all of them.

It's a tricky one, because I think some of her best work has yet to see the light of day. However, I can also see even with those songs, how they do need some work on them and she probably would rather us wait (if she gets around to recording them all).

And now I'm excited, cause Dave Stewart seemed to have resurrected the muse in her. So maybe she'll finally record some of those lost gems.

What do you guys think? If someone truely respects Stevie as an artist and is a "fan", should they respect her wishes?

[skcin]

Lindsay (Sapphiresister) just attended an event & asked Stevie about this - maybe she can tell the story again? I got the impression that Stevie wasn't all that angry about it anymore.


I think it's a bummer that it happened, and I know that she feels the work isn't finished. But it's out there & has been for years. I see no harm in listening as long as I'm not trying to profit.

[KarmaContestant]

Meh.

Stevie herself gave away demo tapes all the time. She's admitted it - making tapes for all of her friends. Surely some tapes were stolen, but all of these demos didn't appear at one time; they've slowly leaked out since the late 70's. Stevie is as much responsible for her demos circulating as anyone else.

The material is all unreleased so there's really no copyright infringement when trading with others, and Stevie nor her agents have ever made any effort to remove that material from circulation (Difficult but not impossible). They haven't even asked that the demos be removed from YouTube, which would be very easy to do.

For all of her complaining, I think she secretly enjoys that her demos are so popular. It is because of them that I've been a fan for as long as I have...otherwise I'd have probably given up back in 1989. :shrug:

[GarboSpeaks!]

They are out there, so what's done is done.
I say that because for as ticked off as she comes across, this keeps happening. I get that now we are in the digital age where it would be near impossible to keep her demo's and stuff a secret, but THEY KEEP surfacing. I find that odd. I don't think she has any control over it, but I still wonder.
Her fans adore her, and they WANT to respect her wishes, but for the love of her music and artistry, it's like trying to conquer an addiction, with the stuff within reach. VERY difficult!
What I do is not go out of my way to help people that make a profit from it. That last seller who had a bunch of stuff, I think they were just a lucky auction unit winner and atleast they are getting it into the hands of fans, BUT, I just hate to see the money go to anyone but Stevie. If a group of fans buy it and distribute it amongst MORE fans, I think that's awesome, and again, despite SN's feelings, I think somewhere, somehow she would totally agree with that.

[Artemis]

For all of her complaining, I think she secretly enjoys that her demos are so popular.

This. I also think Stevie will be happy that her demos bring joy to many of her fans. I think she'd be pissed with the people who stole them and then profited from them; as most people would be, one would think.

Personally, I love listening to Stevie's demos. In some cases, it's interesting to see where she's recycled an idea or a lyric and used it in her published works. And in other cases it's fun to see whether the official version is better than the demo; or vice versa. (Smile At You springs to mind immediately here!)

[mikebise]

That last seller who had a bunch of stuff, I think they were just a lucky auction unit winner and atleast they are getting it into the hands of fans, BUT, I just hate to see the money go to anyone but Stevie. If a group of fans buy it and distribute it amongst MORE fans, I think that's awesome, and again, despite SN's feelings, I think somewhere, somehow she would totally agree with that.

:] "Singing it to ya... She's singin' it to ya..."

"Oh no, baby, this is the EDGE OF IT!!!!!" ;)

[WildHearted]

Personally, I don't feel bad about it...

I love hearing how the demos progressed into actual finished recordings, etc... Stevie has some real treasures in her demos that haven't been released, too, as we all know. And the ones that have made it to albums, a lot of the times in a way I prefer the demos because of the rawness and intimacy. Like the above said, what's done is done.. I'm sure she's mad that they were taken from her etc, but I don't think at this point she's upset that her fans are listening to them and enjoy them.

Now, the smart thing to do would be for Stevie to compile some of the better ones that she knows she isn't going to do anything with, and release them on a CD.... I mean, we have them anyway, she might as well release better quality copies of them and make some money for herself.

[HighPassion]

Oh I totally agree that they are enjoyable to listen to, and finding differences or "what was used where" sort of thing.

I guess you guys have a good point though. Although, to me it kind of seems that she's like "Well, what's done is done and there's nothing you can do about it", but she doens't exactly seem happy about it per say.

Like, I don't think she'd go through all the effort to take them away from us - because the damage is done. But I've never got a happy vibe from it in any way. Like, every time I've heard her talk about it she seemed like she was in a kaffufel.

But too, that could very well be because she's more so mad that someone actually stole them from her. Or that her so-called friends tried making a profit out of them.

I don't know. I'm not trying to sound like a hypocrite - cause I do enjoy listening to them and find it neat. However, I think it's something I'll never come to terms with it unless I sit down and have a chat with her about it. :shrug:

[Annabell Lee]

I used to be sooo determined not to listen to anything of Stevie's that wasn't actually released. Over time however, my views have def. softened. I, just like any diehard Stevie fan, craves any new music i can get my hands on. That includes released music or demos.I love Stevie to death but,10 yrs. is a long time to expect anyone to wait for a brand new cd ! So i fill the years with music of hers that i may or may not have heard before. I figure as long as i am not profiting from the demos it's all right for ME. It's def. an individual decision to make.I do find it odd also that with her handing demos out to her friends, she's surprised the music has found a home online ! It was only a matter of time, really. I also belive she is secretly happy that so may people enjoy these little jewels ! ;)

[jeffd8382]

I agree with the sentiment of most of you here... I'm sorry (and I mean this very sincerely) that it bothers her that this stuff has circulated/is circulating... and it's not fair from her perspective since she wrote/recorded it... but what's out there is out there. Since they do exist, I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing the material... even if it is the result of criminal behavior (like stealing tapes), which I don't condone in any way. At this point, we have no way of knowing where a lot of the material originated from anyway... and as others have pointed out, a lot of it probably did come from her sharing her tapes with friends/associates. It does upset me when people who have obtained unreleased material try and profit from other fans' desire to hear it... that, to me, is wrong and they should be ashamed of themselves. If they don't want to share it freely, that's their prerogative (although I think that's a shame too and don't really understand it). On the flip side, I think it's incredibly kind of those who do share to share... and in the case of master reels, I know certain people have spent a lot of their own hard-earned money to have them transferred only to turn around and generously share them with other fans. I guess that's a long answer to a simple question... but no, I don't have an issue listening/sharing the unreleased material and I hope that doesn't offend anyone.

My hope is that one day she'll decide to officially share a lot of her unreleased material, realizing that fans enjoy hearing how songs have evolved and it doesn't detract from the finished product.. or that even though she thought the song wasn't right/finished/worthy of releasing, others may appreciate them and think of them as favorites.

[SapphireSister]

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

[mikebise]

Thank you, Lindsay, for such a great post! I ALWAYS LOVE seeing your screenname in a thread!!!! :wavey:

"HOW WILL WE FEEL TEN YEARS FROM NOW???"

[KarmaContestant]

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

Thank you very much for sharing that. :angel:

[SapphireSister]

Thank you, Lindsay, for such a great post! I ALWAYS LOVE seeing your screenname in a thread!!!! :wavey:

"HOW WILL WE FEEL TEN YEARS FROM NOW???"

I love you too sweet darlin'. xoxo

P.S. check your pm's.

[HighPassion]

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

Interesting tidbit. thanks for sharing :)

[jeffd8382]

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

I'm so glad you asked her this question... and I'm very happy to hear that she sounds like she's at peace with the idea of these demos floating around. Her radio interviews, when she talks about "Secret Love" and finding it on YouTube, seem to confirm this.. she doesn't sound angry, to me, at all about it.

To the OP, I had almost forgotten about this! Many years ago, when Nicksfix started their "Ask Stevie" section, one of the questions was about her demos/unreleased material and she said someone had stolen her tapes. Before that, I had actually purchased a couple of CDs on ebay of unreleased stuff (I was probably about 16/17 yo at the time) and was thrilled to hear the material... at the time, I didn't even realize fans could just make CDs (until I received them... it was obvious LOL!) But then after reading that answer, I was a little bothered by having those bootleg CDs and I didn't listen to them much for a long time... that was until mp3s and more stuff became available online. But I was the one who asked the follow-up question about "is there anything we, as fans, can do to help the situation?" and really her answer seemed very pragmatic and she just said, "I would prefer everyone get my music when it's finished." I half expected her to say, "stop selling/trading the stuff!"

[HighPassion]

I'm so glad you asked her this question... and I'm very happy to hear that she sounds like she's at peace with the idea of these demos floating around. Her radio interviews, when she talks about "Secret Love" and finding it on YouTube, seem to confirm this.. she doesn't sound angry, to me, at all about it.

To the OP, I had almost forgotten about this! Many years ago, when Nicksfix started their "Ask Stevie" section, one of the questions was about her demos/unreleased material and she said someone had stolen her tapes. Before that, I had actually purchased a couple of CDs on ebay of unreleased stuff (I was probably about 16/17 yo at the time) and was thrilled to hear the material... at the time, I didn't even realize fans could just make CDs (until I received them... it was obvious LOL!) But then after reading that answer, I was a little bothered by having those bootleg CDs and I didn't listen to them much for a long time... that was until mp3s and more stuff became available online. But I was the one who asked the follow-up question about "is there anything we, as fans, can do to help the situation?" and really her answer seemed very pragmatic and she just said, "I would prefer everyone get my music when it's finished." I half expected her to say, "stop selling/trading the stuff!"

See that's where it gets me lol. But c'est la vie.
Do you still have those CDs??

[jeffd8382]

See that's where it gets me lol. But c'est la vie.
Do you still have those CDs??

Yeah, I understand... there's nothing wrong with feeling a moral dilemma when it comes to the gray areas in life. Everyone has to decide for themselves, I guess, what they believe is right or wrong... and what they're comfortable with.

I do still have those CDs actually... a few of the songs I have shared here came from there. In fact, the 3 tracks I am trying to upload at mediafire today (and yesterday) are from one of them... for some insane reason, I keep hitting a roadblock in getting them uploaded. I'm wondering it's some issue with my internet service... very frustrating! lol!

[HighPassion]

Yeah, I understand... there's nothing wrong with feeling a moral dilemma when it comes to the gray areas in life. Everyone has to decide for themselves, I guess, what they believe is right or wrong... and what they're comfortable with.

I do still have those CDs actually... a few of the songs I have shared here came from there. In fact, the 3 tracks I am trying to upload at mediafire today (and yesterday) are from one of them... for some insane reason, I keep hitting a roadblock in getting them uploaded. I'm wondering it's some issue with my internet service... very frustrating! lol!

Oh nice. Yeah, I bet the quality must be decent on those eh? Like, being as they haven't been ripped and compressed a number of times...
I'd love to get myself something like a tape or CD closest to the original distrubitor's source... But yeah, I'll keep my eyes peeled? What were those compilations called?

[jeffd8382]

Oh nice. Yeah, I bet the quality must be decent on those eh? Like, being as they haven't been ripped and compressed a number of times...
I'd love to get myself something like a tape or CD closest to the original distrubitor's source... But yeah, I'll keep my eyes peeled? What were those compilations called?

There were 3 of them from ebay:

1.) Mirrorball (everyone seems to know this one LOL)

2.) Old-Fashioned (there's HORRIBLE noise reduction on this one.. like overkill on the old Dolby NR)

3.) Twisted/Enchanted Outtakes... this is where the "All Over You" that I recently uploaded came from as well as the "Edge of Seventeen" extended mix/outtake version. "Gypsy Beggars" & "The Nightmare" piano demos have pretty good sound (better than the ones previously posted) and those I am trying to upload as I'm typing.

There was also one that someone was kind enough to make one for me a couple years after that with songs that I picked from a list... most have terrible sound quality and have already been posted in better quality on this forum. I did, however, use the "Greta" RAL outtake from this CD and recently enhanced that one and posted it.

[markolas]

I haven't read the replies, so maybe someone's already said this, but here's what I think.
I think the crap about people "stealing her tapes" was mostly BS, and that recently she's admitted what is much closer to the truth: that she used to hand out copies of these tapes to anyone who asked. Apparently she wasn't thinking about what people would do with those tapes at the time she gave them out and she certainly couldn't have foreseen this thing called the Internet, but the long & short of it is that she put this stuff out there (or most of it) her own damn self. Now, I think it's wrong when people sell copies of these recordings, but I don't think there's anything wrong with fans sharing them amongst themselves, and Stevie should really embrace this segment of her fanbase.

[Macfanforever]

SleezeBay is my problem on this.I dont like the Idea of somebody that sells Stevie's demo tapes for a profit.or any other artist to the matter.I'm still shocked after reading these post that Stevie is not that upset about the demo's are out.The word is trust.Can you trust a friend if you gave him or her a demo tape.Of course If I was an artist. I would probably give my demos to friends and like today I probably post them on my website a have my fans have a listen to the demos and have them put some input and some opinions about the songs before i make the final cut.As we know Stevie is not into computers this wont happen with her.

[HighPassion]

There were 3 of them from ebay:

1.) Mirrorball (everyone seems to know this one LOL)

2.) Old-Fashioned (there's HORRIBLE noise reduction on this one.. like overkill on the old Dolby NR)

3.) Twisted/Enchanted Outtakes... this is where the "All Over You" that I recently uploaded came from as well as the "Edge of Seventeen" extended mix/outtake version. "Gypsy Beggars" & "The Nightmare" piano demos have pretty good sound (better than the ones previously posted) and those I am trying to upload as I'm typing.

There was also one that someone was kind enough to make one for me a couple years after that with songs that I picked from a list... most have terrible sound quality and have already been posted in better quality on this forum. I did, however, use the "Greta" RAL outtake from this CD and recently enhanced that one and posted it.

Nice :D

I have a lot of the old school compilations - but they were sent to me at 128kbps... Which is depressing considering the quality on a lot of them aren't good as is. And towards the end of a lot of them, they start skipping. So it's kind of just redundant on my part to even have them.

I'm slowly going through all of them and re-compiling with better versions of songs etc. I'm just assuming a lot of yours must be in decent quality being as you got them so long before they wouldve been compressed a billion times :)

And you're enhancements probably help a lot. I think I've heard a few. I didn't think that was possible as I've tried to a few times with "Running Through the Garden" but gave up :lol:

[-Lillith-]

I hate that people are selling the demos as well. :mad:
When i became a fan i watched a lot on youtube, i didnt know the story of the demo s or anything by then.
I heard more demo stuff at first then realesed songs, because i had to get the Cds and stuff at first.
I was already a huge demo fan when i heard that it i s not really her will that they float around on the net.
There are a lot of Songs that are demos that mean a lot to me.
I think she isnt really mad about that, she sees that her Songs are appreciated and might like that at least. :)
When she gave away tapes she couldnt have known that it would be so easy to circulate them by now.

[-Lillith-]

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

That was really cool of you to ask her. Thanks for the information :thumbsup: :angel:

[DarkUponLight]

Ok, I think now is probably the best time to share a little story with you all, since this was all brought up. It was sometime in 1999, I was in a club & met this guy who claimed to have lived with Stevie in the late 80's/early 90's in one of her L.A. "party houses". He told me this story of how Stevie was really frustrated when she went in with Rupert to do OSOTM. That she felt like she had so many demos & outtakes that would never see the light of day, even if she did 10 albums back to back. So, she supposedly gave him copies of her entire vault of songs & he was supposed to sort through them & pick the best of the best to go on a box set sort of deal. Apparently he made copies of the songs & sold them to the highest bidder & this was the beginning of all these demos being distributed to the fans. From what he told me, Stevie found out & was furious, but couldn't really do much cuz she couldn't prove he actually sold the copies, even though there was some evidence that he had. By this time, I'm thinking this guy was just some kind of crazed fan, feeding me a bunch of bull, but then he pulled out his wallet & showed me some pictures of him & Stevie lounging around a living room & other of them drinking at a party. Now, these were actual photos, and this was long before photoshop came along, so I was inclined to believe him after he showed me the pictures. And as time went on, he came back to the club & brought in more pictures to show me of him at home with Stevie, so the more real pictures I saw, the more I was convinced he was telling the truth, at least about staying with Stevie at some point. But, I've always wondered if the story about Rupert & the demos was true. And the liner notes in Timespace about Rupert sort of supported this story in a way too. I dunno, it could all be a bunch of bull, but I do remember him saying that even though the demos were sold & she wasn't happy about how it happened, she was relieved that the fans were able to hear some of the songs that she knew would never make an album, even if they weren't in polished form. But who knows... I just feel like, they're out there, she knows about it, she doesn't seem too upset about it anymore. And I kinda feel like it's a good thing they did get out because if not, would "Secret Love" even be on IYD? It's kinda the same way I feel about trading demos. I feel like everyone should share what they have because the more copies out there, the less chance any demo will be lost forever if someone's computer crashes or they lose their hard copies. If none of Stevie's demos were ever leaked & her house burned down, NONE of the wonderful treasured demos we know today would ever be known to ANY of her fans... and that freaks me out a lot more than how politically correct it is or isn't to trade or listen to them... but that's just me...

[-Lillith-]

Thats an intresting story :eek:

i am like minded. There are songs that are just to beautiful to never be heard by anybody, may be she really felt that way , too and gave them to his guy?

[jkmaletic]

As an artist, I totally get why she prefers people to hear her music when it's finished. It bugs when people want to see a drawing im working on before its done. But I agree that she's mellowed out about it in the past few years. Plus, I can vouch for Stevies reaction to Lindsays question. She wasn't angry at all. It was funny, cuz when Lindsay asked her that I was thinking, uh-oh..
I also thought- wow, that chicks got some balls! :lo:p

Jamie

[HighPassion]

Ok, I think now is probably the best time to share a little story with you all, since this was all brought up. It was sometime in 1999, I was in a club & met this guy who claimed to have lived with Stevie in the late 80's/early 90's in one of her L.A. "party houses". He told me this story of how Stevie was really frustrated when she went in with Rupert to do OSOTM. That she felt like she had so many demos & outtakes that would never see the light of day, even if she did 10 albums back to back. So, she supposedly gave him copies of her entire vault of songs & he was supposed to sort through them & pick the best of the best to go on a box set sort of deal. Apparently he made copies of the songs & sold them to the highest bidder & this was the beginning of all these demos being distributed to the fans. From what he told me, Stevie found out & was furious, but couldn't really do much cuz she couldn't prove he actually sold the copies, even though there was some evidence that he had. By this time, I'm thinking this guy was just some kind of crazed fan, feeding me a bunch of bull, but then he pulled out his wallet & showed me some pictures of him & Stevie lounging around a living room & other of them drinking at a party. Now, these were actual photos, and this was long before photoshop came along, so I was inclined to believe him after he showed me the pictures. And as time went on, he came back to the club & brought in more pictures to show me of him at home with Stevie, so the more real pictures I saw, the more I was convinced he was telling the truth, at least about staying with Stevie at some point. But, I've always wondered if the story about Rupert & the demos was true. And the liner notes in Timespace about Rupert sort of supported this story in a way too. I dunno, it could all be a bunch of bull, but I do remember him saying that even though the demos were sold & she wasn't happy about how it happened, she was relieved that the fans were able to hear some of the songs that she knew would never make an album, even if they weren't in polished form. But who knows... I just feel like, they're out there, she knows about it, she doesn't seem too upset about it anymore. And I kinda feel like it's a good thing they did get out because if not, would "Secret Love" even be on IYD? It's kinda the same way I feel about trading demos. I feel like everyone should share what they have because the more copies out there, the less chance any demo will be lost forever if someone's computer crashes or they lose their hard copies. If none of Stevie's demos were ever leaked & her house burned down, NONE of the wonderful treasured demos we know today would ever be known to ANY of her fans... and that freaks me out a lot more than how politically correct it is or isn't to trade or listen to them... but that's just me...

Ooooh pieces of the puzzle eh. Thanks for sharing :)
Too bad this guy was a jackass, we could've had some quality demos of some songs hehe.

This actually seems very probable. Maybe not like this "exact" story cause who knows if it's true or not. But earlier interviews with Stevie she seemed so keen on having everyone hear what she has to say in her songs, and how she writes for the fans.
So maybe she was pissed when people asked her about it, and made the story a bit more dramatic - when she actually knew who stole them. Or she didn't remember who let them leak because she was so doped up. But yeah, maybe she's just mad because they weren't let out the right way.

We should find this guy on facebook and give him a beatdown!


@jkmaletic - I totally know what you meanabout the unfinished work being snooped on...

[Heartboy]

Ok, I think now is probably the best time to share a little story with you all, since this was all brought up. It was sometime in 1999, I was in a club & met this guy who claimed to have lived with Stevie in the late 80's/early 90's in one of her L.A. "party houses". He told me this story of how Stevie was really frustrated when she went in with Rupert to do OSOTM. That she felt like she had so many demos & outtakes that would never see the light of day, even if she did 10 albums back to back. So, she supposedly gave him copies of her entire vault of songs & he was supposed to sort through them & pick the best of the best to go on a box set sort of deal. Apparently he made copies of the songs & sold them to the highest bidder & this was the beginning of all these demos being distributed to the fans. From what he told me, Stevie found out & was furious, but couldn't really do much cuz she couldn't prove he actually sold the copies, even though there was some evidence that he had. By this time, I'm thinking this guy was just some kind of crazed fan, feeding me a bunch of bull, but then he pulled out his wallet & showed me some pictures of him & Stevie lounging around a living room & other of them drinking at a party. Now, these were actual photos, and this was long before photoshop came along, so I was inclined to believe him after he showed me the pictures. And as time went on, he came back to the club & brought in more pictures to show me of him at home with Stevie, so the more real pictures I saw, the more I was convinced he was telling the truth, at least about staying with Stevie at some point. But, I've always wondered if the story about Rupert & the demos was true. And the liner notes in Timespace about Rupert sort of supported this story in a way too. I dunno, it could all be a bunch of bull, but I do remember him saying that even though the demos were sold & she wasn't happy about how it happened, she was relieved that the fans were able to hear some of the songs that she knew would never make an album, even if they weren't in polished form. But who knows... I just feel like, they're out there, she knows about it, she doesn't seem too upset about it anymore. And I kinda feel like it's a good thing they did get out because if not, would "Secret Love" even be on IYD? It's kinda the same way I feel about trading demos. I feel like everyone should share what they have because the more copies out there, the less chance any demo will be lost forever if someone's computer crashes or they lose their hard copies. If none of Stevie's demos were ever leaked & her house burned down, NONE of the wonderful treasured demos we know today would ever be known to ANY of her fans... and that freaks me out a lot more than how politically correct it is or isn't to trade or listen to them... but that's just me...

Speaking of Rupert, did he write any songs about Stevie? Someone told me the other day that they think a song he wrote and Wilson Phillips recorded, could of been about Stevie & it's gotten me thinkin' the last few days! :shrug: or maybe this is a different Rupert.:eek:

[gypsy4life]

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.
I am beyond happy you asked Stevie this question!

I have gotten so much joy and, at times, emotional strength from her demos, and I used to feel bad, knowing she was upset about them being circulated.
Now that she seems cool with it, I have absolutely no guilt, and continue to be appreciative of everyone who has ever shared a demo with me.

The Ledge made it possible for me to own these gems, and for that I will be forever grateful.

[SapphireSister]

As an artist, I totally get why she prefers people to hear her music when it's finished. It bugs when people want to see a drawing im working on before its done. But I agree that she's mellowed out about it in the past few years. Plus, I can vouch for Stevies reaction to Lindsays question. She wasn't angry at all. It was funny, cuz when Lindsay asked her that I was thinking, uh-oh..
I also thought- wow, that chicks got some balls! :lo:p

Jamie

Hee hee! Thanks Jame, never thought of it that way. :thumbsup:

[jkmaletic]

Hee hee! Thanks Jame, never thought of it that way. :thumbsup:

Your welcome! Yeah, I was like, OMG - here we go... then Stevie was cool with it.

Jamie :D

[LB Freakazoid]

this is such an interesting question.... I mean, do you answer it on how you feel about the demos... or how you feel about how we got to hear them....

to throw my two cents in... I like her demos, usually more --- they have much more -space - in them musically and lyrically... which seems to contribute to the atmosphere that Stevie's emotions linger in... which invites your own imagination and folly to explore, into the song, making it personal... I actually like the Secret Love demo more than the finished version because of that reason....

As for how these demos got to us... it sucks. But as the way the whole thing stands now... maybe Stevie should realize that there are a few of us that enjoy the demo aspect of her craft - it's about time she should honor it - and release her demos on her website (for purchase, of course ;) and in good quality. But I guess that's as plausible as her realizing that the people who actually know that her new album is coming out in a few days and don't want to hear Landslide again live. Maybe instead we'll get a braille(sp?) version of Rumours instead (no disrespect intended)

[starshine]

Personally, I love and enjoy the demos/outtakes/alternates etc that we have. No it wasn't right how we have them but needless to say I am happy we DO have them. Since we may have never gotten to hear some of these songs. I also wish she'd just release nice cleaned up versions of these demos /outtakes etc in special sets or something with rare UNR photos with them. I think Stevie should make the $$ now and not wait. I know I'd buy them for sure. I could probably go on and on but I'll leave it at that. Also the story about Rupert Hine was interesting I'd not ever heard that before.:shrug::D

[lilyfee]

Personally, I love and enjoy the demos/outtakes/alternates etc that we have. No it wasn't right how we have them but needless to say I am happy we DO have them. Since we may have never gotten to hear some of these songs. I also wish she'd just release nice cleaned up versions of these demos /outtakes etc in special sets or something with rare UNR photos with them. I think Stevie should make the $$ now and not wait. I know I'd buy them for sure. I could probably go on and on but I'll leave it at that. Also the story about Rupert Hine was interesting I'd not ever heard that before.:shrug::D

You must have been psychic!

My sentiment on this issue is that I will buy all of Stevie's music. I would never just download what is available for purchase because that is 100% stealing and I want to support her as an artist. Demos are more of a gray area but I think I would always rather hear a final version of a song or stream a live performance than listen to unreleased demos.

That said, I am glad that her old demos are circulating because would we even have 24 Karat Gold without them??

Many of her demos are very soulful and the released versions lack that emotional connection in some ways. I wish she would take note of the most sought after demos and apply that kind of sound to her current releases. But I don't feel entitled to any of her work.

[PenguinHead]

I've never had any morale dilemma about it.

Before the world went digital, in the dinosaur days of late seventies/early eighties, fans would trade cassette tapes by snail mail. The original sources were surreptitious distributors who would advertise their wares - live bootlegs and demos - in the classified back section of magazines like Rolling Stone.

I was fascinated to discover Stevie's demos and outtakes. It never crossed my mind to feel guilty about it. I purchased just about everything that Fleetwood Mac and Stevie officially released. These off-the radar songs and recordings were a peek into the unknown terrain of their work. It was so mysterious because the songs had no context, as if they existed in a different galaxy. Where did they come from? Why are they here?They remained known only to those who sought them out. Once the internet came in to being, the cat was out of the bag, and the material was disseminated to the masses.

Most high caliber artists/bands have unreleased/unauthorized material s floating around among fans. Paul McCartney has dozens and dozens of unreleased songs out there. A lot of them are in finished form. He's made several attempts over several decades to release them in some sort of format, but it has never happened. Should his die-hard fans feel guilty that we have obtained them? Chances are we would purchase them if they were officially released.

Sheryl Crow recorded what was to be her debut album. Feeling that it didn't represent who she wanted to be as an artist, she ditched the entire album and went back the drawing board. Of course the album was eventually available on the internet. Should I feel guilty that I burned it on a CD? Hell no!

[gldstwmn]

Sheryl Crow recorded what was to be her debut album. Feeling that it didn't represent who she wanted to be as an artist, she ditched the entire album and went back the drawing board. Of course the album was eventually available on the internet. Should I feel guilty that I burned it on a CD? Hell no!

Thank goodness it was never released. Her career may have never taken of at all if it had been. Hugh Padgham and her were like oil and water together as artist and producer, wrong in every way for each other. Bill Botrell and David Baerwald were perfect for Sheryl. Fortunately they found each other.

[starshine]

You must have been psychic!

My sentiment on this issue is that I will buy all of Stevie's music. I would never just download what is available for purchase because that is 100% stealing and I want to support her as an artist. Demos are more of a gray area but I think I would always rather hear a final version of a song or stream a live performance than listen to unreleased demos.

That said, I am glad that her old demos are circulating because would we even have 24 Karat Gold without them??

Many of her demos are very soulful and the released versions lack that emotional connection in some ways. I wish she would take note of the most sought after demos and apply that kind of sound to her current releases. But I don't feel entitled to any of her work.Hi, thanks no I don't think I'm psychic but I do still feel that way when I wrote that --its cool that she released the 24 K Gold thing but I do still 'wish' it was some sort of a 'box' set sort of a deal kinda like someone stated like Bob Dylan releases but in a more cool way. I'd put period rare photos with the songs and maybe have her say something about them (if she does recall anything about that song when it was written etc.). I have many ideas but really she needs to do it know when us fans are here to enjoy them. Not to be morbid or nothing but well say 50 yrs from now I won't care or any of us at this web site. Now is the time to make that move same for Fleetwood Mac. Get this stuff released for YOUR fans but really only time will tell. I do appreciate that she wanted to re-record all the demos /outtakes but I would LOVE them in there original form or better versions of them. Thanks for the nice comments. I love having them and I don't feel bad about it either. Same for the other artists I have as well. Its like so cool to have them. :]:D PS: I don't download either but have cds. I still love my cds. I'd buy it too but Stevie and Mac just have to start releasing more of them. The question is will they? Don't know. There families might though if they don't.