Chris being ignored/left out

[kick.inside]

I couldn't think of a better way to word the thread title - sorry.
I've always felt kind of bad/sad that Stevie gets so much more attention than Chris in terms of gifts and appreciation and such. I definitely don't think Chris is jealous, but maybe she's felt a little left out/ignored? There are a couple stories that exemplify this pretty well:
- The one about the celebrity softball (or maybe it was baseball?) game and Chris was actually surprised that there was a gift for her (the bumper sticker).
- Stevie having a ton of gifts one night and Chris having nothing, so John pulled a flower off the thingy and gave it to her (awwww!).
Like I already said, I don't think she was jealous. Still, how could you not feel a little crappy when you have to constantly watch the other girl be showered with gifts while you get nothing? I mean, to actually be shocked/surprised to receive a gift of your own...that says something. It's sad!
I always thought that if I'd had the chance to see FM with Chris (of if by some strange flukey miracle she tours again and I do get to see her with them one day), I'd bring her roses. It's a thought I've had in my head for years now - bringing Chris red roses. Nothing too terribly fancy, nothing overly cheesy, but classic and beautiful and enough to get the point across - that she's appreciated and we love her.
Has anyone else ever felt bad that Chris is seemingly ignored in the gift/tokens of appreciation department? Maybe I'm just over thinking things again.

[Silver Springs]

I've always been the other girls who watches the others be showered with praise, gifts and acknowledgement. I know how hard it is. So I know that even if she hid it well, Chris must have been hurt on some level.

[kick.inside]

^ I'm like that too, in a way. I could have graduated 3 years early, I have a genius level IQ, I was MVP of my softball team for 2 years in a row, and yet my sister is the pretty/popular/social one, so she's the one who always gets spoiled and shown attention. For me, being smart doesn't necessarily make people like you. If you're outgoing though, you can be dumb as a bag of hammers and still be loved and spoiled, because you have the charisma. I don't even care about being spoiled, but it hurts when you're always left out.
That's a good point you bring up. It does hurt, and maybe with Christine, it bothers me so much because I can relate.

[michelej1]

Well, at least it evened itself out off stage. Stevie said they'd send her off to a room and forget she was there for hours. Chris said Stevie would always want to sing while they were still working on a the musical arrangement and they would tell her not now and Stevie would feel left out. So, maybe Chris didn't get as many stuffed animals thrown at her when they were on stage (that's a funny bit when she keeps one of them at the end of the show, even though Stevie pulls at it), but there was a kind of balance in the parts of band life that we didn't get to see.

Michele

[bluefox4000]

Well Considering Chris had put so much more time in the band, I feel bad yes. At the same time, Chris just kept doing her thing. I have major major respect for her. And no one can deny since she left, there's been a big gaping hole. that says something.

Mick

[ButterCookie]

While I can understand that she may have felt left out, does anyone think it's possible she was maybe a little tiny bit thankful?

Especially now, she said herself that she can go shopping without being mobbed which she's grateful for. She'll be able to walk her dogs in peace and go to the pub (for a chat) without people constantly pestering her. The combination of her reserved nature and english-ness probably thank the heavens above every day for that.

[SteveMacD]

Betcha the brown paper bag money made up for it.

[louielouie2000]

Chris always said she rather enjoyed being towards the back of the stage, hidden behind her keyboards where she kinda blended in with the rhythm section of the band. Christine was far more of a musician than a performance artist. I don't think she was ever interested in being the headliner or focal point. I think she just enjoyed supporting the other musicians in the band. I don't think the rest of the trappings really interested her in the least.

[Villavic]

- Stevie having a ton of gifts one night and Chris having nothing, so John pulled a flower off the thingy and gave it to her (awwww!)

When did that happen? Is there a video?

I agree with ButterCookie about Chris reserved nature and english-ness. And besides people's attention, there's the band acknowledgement to her contribution and how important she was to the Fleetwood Mac success.

During the "infamous" August 7, 1987 incident, Mick tells in his book some Lindsey complaining, what I interpret as a general bitterness, more than a contempt to Chris (or any other member) work.

Lindsey apologised. "Look, I'm sorry. I just can't do any more. I've given twelve years of my life to this band! I've done it all arranged, produced, played guitar, sang. I just can't . . . hack it . . . and do it all anymore."

Christine spoke now. "What do you mean,Lindsey, do it all?" Her tone was withering. It was her singles, after all, that got played on the radio, not Lindsey's. This was a sore spot, because in interviews Lindsey had been describing his role in the band as the grand interpreter of Chris's and Stevie's music to the world as if he felt he had carried the rest of the band. Nobody liked this, especially now. Lindsey was silent. No one knew what to say. Lindsey had given his answer.

I agree with Mick about the success of Tango in the Night. Though the Lindsey/Richard production brought the Fleetwood Mac sound we love, Chris contribution was essential to the Tango success.

[Gailh]

I think Christine has said she thought of herself as part of the rhythm section rather than the front person so she would have expected to get less attention than Stevie.

However although her demenour on stage has always been reserved I don't think she was like that off stage. I'm sure I read somewhere she said herself that she was "outspoken". Don't let that reserved exterior fool you - she is as tough as old boots. She wouldn't have survived as long as she did in a cut throat business if she was over sensitive.

I've always thought of Christine as a musician and Stevie as a Rock Star.

Hope she's enjoying her retirement

Gail

[kick.inside]

I know she's tough and I know she didn't want as much attention (or at least claimed she was okay with it), but it still must have been hard at times to have Stevie showered with gifts while she stood there watching and not getting much acknowledgment from fans. Like maybe sometimes she felt inferior or something, or that she didn't even matter because Stevie was all they cared about. Even if they were just fleeting thoughts, it seems natural that she'd feel that way at some point.
That's why, like I said in my initial post, if I'd had the chance to see her, I would have brought her something. I love Stevie but my heart definitely belongs to Chris. I think it would be nice if people had shown her that she was appreciated too. I'm sure she might have gotten the occasional token of appreciation, but obviously not nearly as much as Stevie did.
Oh well. I'll never have the chance now. :(
I hope she's happy in her retirement too. As much as I'd love to be able to see her touring again, I wouldn't want her to do something that made her unhappy. I wish her all the best.

[michelej1]

I know she's tough and I know she didn't want as much attention (or at least claimed she was okay with it), but it still must have been hard at times to have Stevie showered with gifts while she stood there watching and not getting much acknowledgment from fans. Like maybe sometimes she felt inferior or something, or that she didn't even matter because Stevie was all they cared about. Even if they were just fleeting thoughts, it seems natural that she'd feel that way at some point.


Quite frankly, I don't think Chris was comfortable with fan attention and adulation. Fans are just strangers. We don't know her and she doesn't know us. I don't think she wanted strangers expressing their adoration.

Certainly peers and industry people matter. Did she want record sales? Yes. I'm sure when she got good critical reviews she was happy and of course she both had and welcomed the respect of her bandmates. In a newspaper review went on and on about Stevie and ignored her, maybe that would tend to get under her skin. But as far as fawning fans go . . . I don't think that's her thing.

I remember some of the Japan video footage where they are giving her goodbye gifts. She seems to look and feel quite awkward receiving them, especially with everyone awaiting her response.

I think it's the Mirage video at the end where she pulls a stuffed animal from Stevie. I think she was just doing it to be funny and playful or doing it because Stevie was annoying reaching over her, but I don't think she really cared a fig whether or not a fan gave her a gift. Another musician noticing her? Yes, I'm sure that was flattering to her and she had plenty of that.

Michele

[vivfox]

I think it's the Mirage video at the end where she pulls a stuffed animal from Stevie. I think she was just doing it to be funny and playful or doing it because Stevie was annoying reaching over her, but I don't think she really cared a fig whether or not a fan gave her a gift.
Michele


Wasn't it a bouquet of flowers?

[PenguinHead]

Christine is a very different animal than Stevie. Her constitution is very strong. There is absolutely no reason to feel bad for her. Put into perspective her very English nature, as well as her view of being a musician, in contrast to being a imagine-driven singer. Stevie's role and perspective is very disparate.

And that is the key as to why the band was able to exist with two women; Chris never felt threatenened by Stevie. It wasn't a competition. Nor did she ever felt jealous of the attention Stevie got, In fact, she mostly looked at it with bit of amusement. When you see the films/clips/interviews with the band, it's obvious and evident that Chris doesn't give a **** about all the attention given to Stevie.

I love her for that.

[mezzoforte]

Y'know, it's funny: Christine produced more hits than Stevie or Lindsey (not counting solo careers)--it's not that the music-buying public discounted Christine. But for reasons many and varied, Chris just didn't acquire those legions of rabid fans who wanted to dress like her and throw toys at her and make her an icon. Some of those factors were random, some were beyond anyone's control, and some speak to her general disinterest in being a rock and roll sex kitten. I think Chris mainly just wanted to make great music and drink her champagne; I doubt she cared much about truckloads of stuffed animals.

But on some level, it must have stung to be "the other girl in Fleetwood Mac." And especially, to see Stevie constantly deemed the "hot one." In return, of course, Chris was taken more seriously within the band and by critics, but I don't think any woman is completely, 100% fine with not being the pretty one (for what's it's worth, I've always considered them roughly equal in looks, depending on the period.)

Note: I say this as someone who still has issues about being less charismatic, non-blond sister. I even got highlights and went pseudo-blond, knowing full well that it would look terrible (it did) because jeezum crowe, it's hard to quash childhood issues!

[michelej1]

But on some level, it must have stung to be "the other girl in Fleetwood Mac." And especially, to see Stevie constantly deemed the "hot one." In return, of course, Chris was taken more seriously within the band and by critics, but I don't think any woman is completely, 100% fine with not being the pretty one (for what's it's worth, I've always considered them roughly equal in looks, depending on the period.)

Note: I say this as someone who still has issues about being less charismatic, non-blond sister. I even got highlights and went pseudo-blond, knowing full well that it would look terrible (it did) because jeezum crowe, it's hard to quash childhood issues!

Good point, but not being the pretty one to whom? I bet there were a lot of men, who discounted Stevie and, rightly or wrongly, were drawn to Christine because they thought of her as being deeper.

I mean, Stevie fans can swim in her lyrics and find endless layers in them, but talking to her one on one back then . . . she might have seemed kind of ditzy. I think the fans may have been screaming for Stevie on stage, but when they got backstage to their dressing rooms, the men that Christine found most attractive might have found Christine to be "the pretty one" and been back there waiting in line.

Even someone like Tom Petty loves Stevie very much, but he seemed to think she was kind of flaky back then. You have men like Walter Egan who were infatuated with Stevie, just as her fans are. But you have a whole class of people who put her down, even if they did so unjustifiably. I think these are the type who admire Christine. Sexually, I think there are people who find her making it in a traditionally masculine world very appealing. You know how some women like "a man in uniform?" Well, I think Christine coming out there with an accordion strapped around her neck can entice in a similar fashion. It's a whole "girls with guitars" type of turn on.

I mean, I know it's not fun to be the also ran, if you're reading People magazine and see Stevie pictured as being the heart and center of the band. I'm sure that was not fun, but that was just one aspect of the attention they were getting. In the rest of their lives, I don't think there was that much of a disparity. In the parts that we didn't see, I think that Christine was getting plenty of attention, in an amount that pretty much rivaled Stevie's.

Michele

[kick.inside]

But on some level, it must have stung to be "the other girl in Fleetwood Mac." And especially, to see Stevie constantly deemed the "hot one." In return, of course, Chris was taken more seriously within the band and by critics, but I don't think any woman is completely, 100% fine with not being the pretty one (for what's it's worth, I've always considered them roughly equal in looks, depending on the period.)


That's what I meant. I know she wasn't jealous of the fame or whatever. I don't think she was jealous of anything. I just think that it seems only natural that she must have felt inadequate or something at some point. Even if she didn't want to be fawned over, it must have felt kind of crappy that no one seemingly wanted to (not nearly as much as they did with Stevie, at least).
Even if she loves Stevie and they're two different types of people, it's inevitable that comparisons would be made, by other people or by Christine herself. I just think Stevie being there and getting all the attention could easily make her feel like she wasn't as good as her in whatever way (looks, music, etc.). No one wants to feel like someone is better than them, and when that someone is getting all the attention, that's how it feels - even if you don't want attention yourself.
I guess it's hard to explain.

Well, I think Christine coming out there with an accordion strapped around her neck can entice in a similar fashion.

I've always thought that Chris with the accordion was extremely sexy in a way. I have no idea why, but I just love it.
That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

[michelej1]

I've always thought that Chris with the accordion was extremely sexy in a way. I have no idea why, but I just love it.


Anita just posted a picture of Christine with the accordion that is quite alluring in the <3 Christine thread. I just get the feeling that's the kind of thing that guys like Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson, and Steve Winwood are drawn by And I think John (long after his divorce) and Lindsey liked it too. Mick is different . . . I never got the vibe that he was attracted to Christine.

As for feeling left out sometimes, maybe Christine did. But I think Stevie did too. I think that Stevie felt inferior to Christine and jealous sometimes. As popular as she was, I think she still looked up to Christine as the big sister who was so accomplished and admired and made it all look so easy. So, it's the kind of thing that evened itself out. I don't think there was a chronic feeling of either one feeling like an "also ran." It went up and down like a seesaw.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

I do understand because they were both female that it might bug another woman, but I would say Christine McVie is no ordinary or typical lady. I just don't see her caring that much about her image as much as she cared about the band. She would have tried to pop into the limelight or front the band long before Stevie ever arrived if she was into that sort of thing.


I will say however, I always felt Lindsey was bitter and disappointed that he never got the fandom Stevie did. And he's kind of a girl... (LOL) And comments like, "I had to do it all." that demonstrates to me just how strongly he felt about it.

[jbrownsjr]

I think Christine, John and Mick were concerned about the band more than their own fandom. Mick has an ego, but it wasn't bigger than the band in my opinion.

[HomerMcvie]

I do understand because they were both female that it might bug another woman, but I would say Christine McVie is no ordinary or typical lady. I just don't see her caring that much about her image as much as she cared about the band. She would have tried to pop into the limelight or front the band long before Stevie ever arrived if she was into that sort of thing.


I will say however, I always felt Lindsey was bitter and disappointed that he never got the fandom Stevie did. And he's kind of a girl... (LOL) And comments like, "I had to do it all." that demonstrates to me just how strongly he felt about it.

I think she was probably relieved somewhat, that Stevie did get to shoulder so much of the attention. Chris is too smart to care too much(even though I'm sure it did sting a little bit)...she knew it was good for the band, and always knew that her songs were the hit singles.

Lindsey is a girl. The gayest straight man I've ever seen. And yes, I think he was UBER bitter, over the attention that Stevie received.

[kick.inside]

Lindsey is a girl. The gayest straight man I've ever seen. And yes, I think he was UBER bitter, over the attention that Stevie received.

Yeah, I don't doubt that at all. He seemed like quite the diva at times. I think he's mellowed out a bit now though, so that's good.

[jbrownsjr]

I think she was probably relieved somewhat, that Stevie did get to shoulder so much of the attention. Chris is too smart to care too much(even though I'm sure it did sting a little bit)...she knew it was good for the band, and always knew that her songs were the hit singles.

Lindsey is a girl. The gayest straight man I've ever seen. And yes, I think he was UBER bitter, over the attention that Stevie received.

Isn't he the one that said the band could be more masculine now that Christine is gone... then wrote such manly pieces as What's the World Comin' to.. to kick off the new "mascline" album? "Say You Ill"

[PenguinHead]

I just think that it seems only natural that she must have felt inadequate or something at some point.

Christine never felt inadequate. Contrary to that belief, not everyone wants/needs their ego fed. Her ex, John McVie has a similar sensibility.

As I said before, if you look at interviews she gave during the 1970s, Christine made fun of all the hysteria/attention Stevie was getting. She wanted no part of it, and seemed relieved and very content in not bearing the brunt of public attention. That, itself, is natural for certain types of people.

Christine wanted respect -- not popularity, excessive publicity, and obsessive fandom. That's is what Stevie wanted/needed, and she got it. It was fated in a sense, since Stevie is not tied to an instrument, so her role in the band was more about visual dramatics.

[Villavic]

Christine wanted respect -- not popularity, excessive publicity, and obsessive fandom. That's is what Stevie wanted/needed, and she got it. It was fated in a sense, since Stevie is not tied to an instrument, so her role in the band was more about visual dramatics.

Being so different, I think that's how those girls (in fact all members) brought a balance to the band, and maybe part of the successful formula. Mick tells a bit about it in his book:

Many theories again appeared in the press to explain Fleetwood Mac's enormous new audience. One held that our three singer/songwriters and their different voices kept the public from getting bored with a monolithic Big Mac sound. Another postulated that the group fulfilled various deeply ingrained Anglo-American archetypes, with myself as the Public School Aristocrat, McVie as the British Cloth-Cap Working-Class type, Christine as an English Rose from the Midlands, Stevie as the California Girl, and Lindsey as Byronic Rock Star.....

Most critics seemed to agree that our writers were producing hit songs that fit into the modern romantic tradition established by the Beatles. But my favorite theory was that we were one of the first white groups since the Mamas and the
Papas to successfully bring female voices into the context of rock music. We didn't sound like anyone else.

Though I never saw Mick as an aristocrat. Specially during the 70s