Dennis and Chris

[michelej1]

Dennis Wilson Loves Christine McVie
Richard Williams
Melody Maker, March 24, 1979

The Beach Boys love good karma

HOLD PAGE nine! Rock 'n' roll's newest woosome twosome is – and you're not gonna guess it! – DENNIS WILSON AND CHRISTINE McVIE!

Yes indeed, the Beach Boys' all-American surfin', draggin', bikin' drummer is more than "just good friends" with the English blues thrush who went to California and found a crock of platinum at the end of the rainbow!

Nevertheless, the man from the Daily Mail is not impressed.

"They didn't have much to say," he confides, in the hotel bar. "The pix won't be much good, either. She grabbed his balls once, but the photographer wasn't ready."

Grabbed his balls?

The Beach Boys' image as goody-goodies, which persisted (to their detriment) through the era of drugs and filth, was destroyed, in the music industry, by a tale which went around a few years ago.

While in London, the story goes, one member of the group (not Dennis, as it happens) was found in bed by an executive of their record company. With the executive's wife. (Industry buffs go on to relate that the executive was ordered to forget the incident, so as not to upset the company's relationship with the group; the tale is used as a kind of musicbiz parable.)

Dennis, of course, has never been a goody-goody. Why, back in 1965, on the sleeve of Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!!), he wrote: "I love summertime most because we can get around to all the towns and I can meet all the girls."

Apparently he's requested my presence in order to tell me that, for Christine and himself, this is The Real Thing.

I am more interested in talking about disco records. About, in fact, the Beach Boys' new single, which is a full-blown disco version of their old album track, 'Here Comes The Night'.

Dennis, who has a disconcertingly oblique way of reaching the point, responds thus: "You really want to know about the disco community? Well, the gay community has made a tremendous mistake. Just like Hitler used Wagner, it's unfair to take an art-form and use it...what do you think?"

I fumble for a cigarette and mutter that a disenfranchised minority surely has a right to raise a flag for itself through the appropriation of...

"But some of your best friends are gay," says Christine to Dennis. From the look on his, face, it seems unlikely.

His further responses to questioning along this line are somewhat confused.

"I'm honoured to perform disco," he says. "On stage I translate the percussion into a Puerto Rican or Latin flavour...but I can't stand regimentation or formula or planned obsolescence. I'm not into disco."

Then: "I'm not on the disco record. I don't perform on it. I'm honoured that it's part of...it's nice to hear it. But you're talking about one of the finest groups in the world. 'Good Vibrations'...'God Only Knows'...Brian Wilson...it reminds me of the 'busy' signal on the telephone line."

Whatever Dennis Wilson is doing in London, he will not be promoting 'Here Comes The Night'.

HE PLAYS me a cassette of the new album, fiddling with the fast-forward and rewind switches, looking for a particular track. He can't find it.

"Cocksucker!" he shouts, apparently to the machine. Then: "Don't write that down!"

Christine giggles. "You get used to it," she says. "He said it in front of my father the other day!"

Dennis finds the track, 'Going South'. His brother Brian's voice comes in, above a whisper of harmonies.

Dennis bursts into tears.

He goes to the bathroom to clear his head, and returns after a couple of minutes with watery eyes and a red nose.

He tells me that he plans to put together all the film he has made of the group since 1964: "Every live performance we've ever done. I filmed it all. It could be a TV series – I might give it to CBS."

CBS, as well as being one of the three major American TV networks, is also the group's new record company, and Dennis launches into an unsolicited testimonial.

"I want to support that company. They're the hippest ****ing corporation on the planet. The chemistry is alive again between CBS and the Beach Boys. It's the same chemistry that Christine has with Warner Brothers. You're looking at history there" – he indicates Ms McVie – "to move that number of records without a movie, without a John Travolta. It's as historical as...as...as Admiral Lemnitz!"

Yeah! Right!

Sorry, what was that again?

I ASK him to tell me about his solo album, the thoroughly outstanding Pacific Ocean Blue, which appeared a couple of years ago to an unjustifiably cool response.

"It was a self-indulgent one-man-band thing, and I had fun doing it," he replies. "I was waiting for the Beach Boys to come down to Brother Studio and make an album. I'm there in this beautiful studio which Al and Mike and Brian tell me is losing money...so I used it. I kept it alive."

He tells me that the studio has been sold, its equipment – which was originally transported across the Atlantic to make the Holland album, before being shipped back to Brother Studio – now in the possession of saxophonist Tom Scott.

I asked him about their final release on Warner Brothers, The MIU Album, named for the Maharishi Institute University.

"They told me they were going to build a studio there, so I quit the group. I don't believe in that album.

"I sang a song on it, which my dear brother Brian wrote about Diane Rovelle," – Brian's sister-in-law, in case you wondered – "but I feel that the album...well, I hope that the karma will **** up Mike Love's meditation forever. That album is an embarrassment to my life. It should self-destruct."

Whew! Thank goodness I gave it a bad review!

So why did he return to the fold for the latest piece of product, which is rather tweely titled The Beach Boys' L.A. (Light Album)?

"Because I stood in a room with my family, around the piano, and we shared something together. That brotherhood is so loving and important that I'll stand behind this album with my absolute being. And God bless the Beach Boys. And I've done talking."

WELL, NOT quite. He tells me that the group runs democratically, which means that all five members have a vote, and that Brian's vote had been given to his wife, Marilyn, when she took over his power of attorney a year or so back. She had, apparently, voted with Love and Al Jardine against Carl and Dennis on a couple of crucial occasions.

But then Dennis says: "Look out for Brian Wilson!" He seems to be on the brink of selling me the standard Brian's-on-the-mend line when the telephone rings.

It's Brian, calling from Hollywood.

The karma, folks!

Dennis goes to the phone.

"Brian! I just want to tell you that I love you and I miss you. Brian...and tell Carl he's a ****-head!...and tell the rest of the guys to start supporting each other!"

He bursts into tears again.

"Why don't you come over to England, Brian?" he enquires through the sniffles. "I'll send you a ticket! Hey, Christine, Brian wants to talk to you!"

Christine takes the receiver, while Dennis returns to his chair and tells me that Brian just loves Christine. He never liked Karen, Dennis's last wife...wouldn't talk to her. Dennis seems to think that this is significant.

And then, quite suddenly, he declares that the interview is over.

WE ALL get up to leave, Dennis and Christine taking an elevator to their room, me taking another one to the ground floor.

The last thing I hear, as the elevator doors close, is Dennis's voice: "Hey, baby, those jeans make your butt look flat!"

I could tell that they're ascloseasthis, but I didn't have the courage to ask if they're infanticipating.

[jbrownsjr]

Dennis Wilson Loves Christine McVie
Richard Williams
Melody Maker, March 24, 1979

The Beach Boys love good karma

HOLD PAGE nine! Rock 'n' roll's newest woosome twosome is – and you're not gonna guess it! – DENNIS WILSON AND CHRISTINE McVIE!

Yes indeed, the Beach Boys' all-American surfin', draggin', bikin' drummer is more than "just good friends" with the English blues thrush who went to California and found a crock of platinum at the end of the rainbow!

Nevertheless, the man from the Daily Mail is not impressed.

"They didn't have much to say," he confides, in the hotel bar. "The pix won't be much good, either. She grabbed his balls once, but the photographer wasn't ready."

Grabbed his balls?

The Beach Boys' image as goody-goodies, which persisted (to their detriment) through the era of drugs and filth, was destroyed, in the music industry, by a tale which went around a few years ago.

While in London, the story goes, one member of the group (not Dennis, as it happens) was found in bed by an executive of their record company. With the executive's wife. (Industry buffs go on to relate that the executive was ordered to forget the incident, so as not to upset the company's relationship with the group; the tale is used as a kind of musicbiz parable.)

Dennis, of course, has never been a goody-goody. Why, back in 1965, on the sleeve of Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!!), he wrote: "I love summertime most because we can get around to all the towns and I can meet all the girls."

Apparently he's requested my presence in order to tell me that, for Christine and himself, this is The Real Thing.

I am more interested in talking about disco records. About, in fact, the Beach Boys' new single, which is a full-blown disco version of their old album track, 'Here Comes The Night'.

Dennis, who has a disconcertingly oblique way of reaching the point, responds thus: "You really want to know about the disco community? Well, the gay community has made a tremendous mistake. Just like Hitler used Wagner, it's unfair to take an art-form and use it...what do you think?"

I fumble for a cigarette and mutter that a disenfranchised minority surely has a right to raise a flag for itself through the appropriation of...

"But some of your best friends are gay," says Christine to Dennis. From the look on his, face, it seems unlikely.

His further responses to questioning along this line are somewhat confused.

"I'm honoured to perform disco," he says. "On stage I translate the percussion into a Puerto Rican or Latin flavour...but I can't stand regimentation or formula or planned obsolescence. I'm not into disco."

Then: "I'm not on the disco record. I don't perform on it. I'm honoured that it's part of...it's nice to hear it. But you're talking about one of the finest groups in the world. 'Good Vibrations'...'God Only Knows'...Brian Wilson...it reminds me of the 'busy' signal on the telephone line."

Whatever Dennis Wilson is doing in London, he will not be promoting 'Here Comes The Night'.

HE PLAYS me a cassette of the new album, fiddling with the fast-forward and rewind switches, looking for a particular track. He can't find it.

"Cocksucker!" he shouts, apparently to the machine. Then: "Don't write that down!"

Christine giggles. "You get used to it," she says. "He said it in front of my father the other day!"

Dennis finds the track, 'Going South'. His brother Brian's voice comes in, above a whisper of harmonies.

Dennis bursts into tears.

He goes to the bathroom to clear his head, and returns after a couple of minutes with watery eyes and a red nose.

He tells me that he plans to put together all the film he has made of the group since 1964: "Every live performance we've ever done. I filmed it all. It could be a TV series – I might give it to CBS."

CBS, as well as being one of the three major American TV networks, is also the group's new record company, and Dennis launches into an unsolicited testimonial.

"I want to support that company. They're the hippest ****ing corporation on the planet. The chemistry is alive again between CBS and the Beach Boys. It's the same chemistry that Christine has with Warner Brothers. You're looking at history there" – he indicates Ms McVie – "to move that number of records without a movie, without a John Travolta. It's as historical as...as...as Admiral Lemnitz!"

Yeah! Right!

Sorry, what was that again?

I ASK him to tell me about his solo album, the thoroughly outstanding Pacific Ocean Blue, which appeared a couple of years ago to an unjustifiably cool response.

"It was a self-indulgent one-man-band thing, and I had fun doing it," he replies. "I was waiting for the Beach Boys to come down to Brother Studio and make an album. I'm there in this beautiful studio which Al and Mike and Brian tell me is losing money...so I used it. I kept it alive."

He tells me that the studio has been sold, its equipment – which was originally transported across the Atlantic to make the Holland album, before being shipped back to Brother Studio – now in the possession of saxophonist Tom Scott.

I asked him about their final release on Warner Brothers, The MIU Album, named for the Maharishi Institute University.

"They told me they were going to build a studio there, so I quit the group. I don't believe in that album.

"I sang a song on it, which my dear brother Brian wrote about Diane Rovelle," – Brian's sister-in-law, in case you wondered – "but I feel that the album...well, I hope that the karma will **** up Mike Love's meditation forever. That album is an embarrassment to my life. It should self-destruct."

Whew! Thank goodness I gave it a bad review!

So why did he return to the fold for the latest piece of product, which is rather tweely titled The Beach Boys' L.A. (Light Album)?

"Because I stood in a room with my family, around the piano, and we shared something together. That brotherhood is so loving and important that I'll stand behind this album with my absolute being. And God bless the Beach Boys. And I've done talking."

WELL, NOT quite. He tells me that the group runs democratically, which means that all five members have a vote, and that Brian's vote had been given to his wife, Marilyn, when she took over his power of attorney a year or so back. She had, apparently, voted with Love and Al Jardine against Carl and Dennis on a couple of crucial occasions.

But then Dennis says: "Look out for Brian Wilson!" He seems to be on the brink of selling me the standard Brian's-on-the-mend line when the telephone rings.

It's Brian, calling from Hollywood.

The karma, folks!

Dennis goes to the phone.

"Brian! I just want to tell you that I love you and I miss you. Brian...and tell Carl he's a ****-head!...and tell the rest of the guys to start supporting each other!"

He bursts into tears again.

"Why don't you come over to England, Brian?" he enquires through the sniffles. "I'll send you a ticket! Hey, Christine, Brian wants to talk to you!"

Christine takes the receiver, while Dennis returns to his chair and tells me that Brian just loves Christine. He never liked Karen, Dennis's last wife...wouldn't talk to her. Dennis seems to think that this is significant.

And then, quite suddenly, he declares that the interview is over.

WE ALL get up to leave, Dennis and Christine taking an elevator to their room, me taking another one to the ground floor.

The last thing I hear, as the elevator doors close, is Dennis's voice: "Hey, baby, those jeans make your butt look flat!"

I could tell that they're ascloseasthis, but I didn't have the courage to ask if they're infanticipating.

haha!!! good lord...

[michelej1]

Interesting that Dennis says Brian loved Christine. I think Lindsey said Brian had a crush on her.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Interesting that Dennis says Brian loved Christine. I think Lindsey said Brian had a crush on her.

Michele

I loved and remembered the days when Chris, Brian, Lindsey and Brian all hung out...

[kick.inside]

Interesting that Dennis says Brian loved Christine. I think Lindsey said Brian had a crush on her.

Michele

Eh, I'm not surprised. Makes perfect sense to me. How could you NOT have a crush on her? :D

[Villavic]

According to Mick's book:

...Christine McVie's new live-in boyfriend, Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys. I had known Dennis from years of gigging with his band and had introduced him to Chris while we were making Tusk. Within a few days after their meeting, Chris and Dennis fell wildly for each other. Our lighting director, Curry Grant, moved out of Chris's hillside recreation of an English country house, and Dennis moved in. It was December 1978, and for the next two years as long as that tempestuous relationship lasted there was never a dull moment, Dennis being the complete wildman so accurately depicted by his enduring legend.

.... (Mirage)...Chris's songs, especially "Hold Me," reflected her bittersweet reflections on her relationship with Dennis Wilson, which had almost resulted in marriage but had ended instead the previous December, when Dennis had moved out of Chris's house and her life. Christine had loved Dennis with all her heart (we all did), and he was a fascinating if exhausting episode in her life. I felt some responsibility, because I had introduced them. Dennis was -an utter loon, and Chris was like my sister. I watched in trepidation as Chris almost went mad trying to keep up with Dennis, who was already like a man with twenty thyroid glands, not counting the gargantuan amounts of coke and booze and pills he was always shoving into himself. I was very torn, because Dennis was a friend, and I'd see him ****ing up and chasing skirts and didn't know whether it was my role to say anything to Chris. In the end I didn't have to. She got tired of spending a fortune and her health on maintaining Dennis on the road to his eventual destiny. In any case, "Hold Me" was a great song, and became the first hit single of the new album.

[jbrownsjr]

According to Mick's book:

...Christine McVie's new live-in boyfriend, Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys. I had known Dennis from years of gigging with his band and had introduced him to Chris while we were making Tusk. Within a few days after their meeting, Chris and Dennis fell wildly for each other. Our lighting director, Curry Grant, moved out of Chris's hillside recreation of an English country house, and Dennis moved in. It was December 1978, and for the next two years as long as that tempestuous relationship lasted there was never a dull moment, Dennis being the complete wildman so accurately depicted by his enduring legend.

.... (Mirage)...Chris's songs, especially "Hold Me," reflected her bittersweet reflections on her relationship with Dennis Wilson, which had almost resulted in marriage but had ended instead the previous December, when Dennis had moved out of Chris's house and her life. Christine had loved Dennis with all her heart (we all did), and he was a fascinating if exhausting episode in her life. I felt some responsibility, because I had introduced them. Dennis was -an utter loon, and Chris was like my sister. I watched in trepidation as Chris almost went mad trying to keep up with Dennis, who was already like a man with twenty thyroid glands, not counting the gargantuan amounts of coke and booze and pills he was always shoving into himself. I was very torn, because Dennis was a friend, and I'd see him ****ing up and chasing skirts and didn't know whether it was my role to say anything to Chris. In the end I didn't have to. She got tired of spending a fortune and her health on maintaining Dennis on the road to his eventual destiny. In any case, "Hold Me" was a great song, and became the first hit single of the new album.

Awesome excerpts!!

[aleuzzi]

Dennis Wilson was apparently a homophobe. Big surprise. Boring.

[jbrownsjr]

Dennis Wilson was apparently a homophobe. Big surprise. Boring.

as a gay man.. it's sometimes fun to watch a homophobe... especially when they don't know I'm gay.. but even more fun is when I tell them..

[ButterCookie]

as a gay man.. it's sometimes fun to watch a homophobe... especially when they don't know I'm gay.. but even more fun is when I tell them..

YES!! People's faces are photo-worthy.

[michelej1]

as a gay man.. it's sometimes fun to watch a homophobe... especially when they don't know I'm gay.. but even more fun is when I tell them..

Rather than the look on Dennis' face, I would be interested in the look on Christine's face when she told him "Some of your best friends are gay." I think she was trying to get a rise out of him and I don't think she's not homophobic herself. At least, I get the impression she was back then. A lot has changed over the last few decades.

As far as having fun telling people, it is probably because I used to watch soap operas, but I always especially enjoyed an All in The Family where Michael tells Archie his friend at a bar is gay, but doesn't tell him who that friend is. Archie assumes that the slight young man (played by Anthony Geary of Luke and Laura General Hospital fame) is gay and treats him in derisive fashion. Actually it is the big, burly football player (played by Phil Carey who played Asa Buchanan on One Life to Live), whom Archie rather admired and enjoyed talking to, who turned out to be gay. Michael relished the irony.


Michele

[jbrownsjr]

Rather than the look on Dennis' face, I would be interested in the look on Christine's face when she told him "Some of your best friends are gay." I think she was trying to get a rise out of him and I don't think she's not homophobic herself. At least, I get the impression she was back then. A lot has changed over the last few decades.

As far as having fun telling people, it is probably because I used to watch soap operas, but I always especially enjoyed an All in The Family where Michael tells Archie his friend at a bar is gay, but doesn't tell him who that friend is. Archie assumes that the slight young man (played by Anthony Geary of Luke and Laura General Hospital fame) is gay and treats him in derisive fashion. Actually it is the big, burly football player (played by Phil Carey who played Asa Buchanan on One Life to Live), whom Archie rather admired and enjoyed talking to, who turned out to be gay. Michael relished the irony.


Michele


I've seen that ep... great one..

[kick.inside]

I think she was trying to get a rise out of him and I don't think she's not homophobic herself. At least, I get the impression she was back then. A lot has changed over the last few decades.


I hate the thought of Christine being homophobic at all. Homophobia is awful in any case, but the fact that I'm gay myself and I love and admire her so much - it would just kill me if she really were a homophobe.
The thing is though, the one interview that often gets brought up in regards to that - Chris saying she didn't want to seem "dykey" or whatever and that she's glad the female fans didn't line up for her sexually - I never even saw that as overly homophobic, actually. I always thought she simply didn't want people to think she was a lesbian because she was in a rock band, and that's how she said it. She worded it in a weird way, but whatever. I also figured that she was grateful that the female fans didn't want her sexually because it would be awkward and she wouldn't know how to react - not because she didn't like them.
Maybe I'm being over idealistic or making excuses for her because I don't want to believe that she might be homophobic. Eh. I mean, have there been other instances that I'm not remembering that would indicate homophobia in any way?
I really don't think she's homophobic now, but the thought of her ever being homophobic at all, even years and years ago, just kills me.

[ButterCookie]

I hate the thought of Christine being homophobic at all. Homophobia is awful in any case, but the fact that I'm gay myself and I love and admire her so much - it would just kill me if she really were a homophobe.
The thing is though, the one interview that often gets brought up in regards to that - Chris saying she didn't want to seem "dykey" or whatever and that she's glad the female fans didn't line up for her sexually - I never even saw that as overly homophobic, actually. I always thought she simply didn't want people to think she was a lesbian because she was in a rock band, and that's how she said it. She worded it in a weird way, but whatever. I also figured that she was grateful that the female fans didn't want her sexually because it would be awkward and she wouldn't know how to react - not because she didn't like them.
Maybe I'm being over idealistic or making excuses for her because I don't want to believe that she might be homophobic. Eh. I mean, have there been other instances that I'm not remembering that would indicate homophobia in any way?
I really don't think she's homophobic now, but the thought of her ever being homophobic at all, even years and years ago, just kills me.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I think it was pretty normal to be even just a little homophobic in the 60s/70s right? Maybe not but it's nice to convince yourself.

I'm sure Lisa and I discussed the point she made about girls lining up for her because they fancied her and I'm sure the word "lezzie" was used. To be honest, if it were the other way round and she were gay and there were men lining up who wanted a bit she'd probably just as disagreeable on the matter. Lord knows I would and am. I hope that she said it because she wouldn't know how to react. It could also be possible she made the "dykey" comment because she didn't want it to affect her career, couldn't it? Maybe she thought that if her fans thought she was a lesbian that they wouldn't want anything to do with her, again, given the time period in which she said it.

[aleuzzi]

as a gay man.. it's sometimes fun to watch a homophobe... especially when they don't know I'm gay.. but even more fun is when I tell them..

As a gay man I can relate!

[mezzoforte]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I think it was pretty normal to be even just a little homophobic in the 60s/70s right? Maybe not but it's nice to convince yourself.

I'm sure Lisa and I discussed the point she made about girls lining up for her because they fancied her and I'm sure the word "lezzie" was used. To be honest, if it were the other way round and she were gay and there were men lining up who wanted a bit she'd probably just as disagreeable on the matter. Lord knows I would and am. I hope that she said it because she wouldn't know how to react. It could also be possible she made the "dykey" comment because she didn't want it to affect her career, couldn't it? Maybe she thought that if her fans thought she was a lesbian that they wouldn't want anything to do with her, again, given the time period in which she said it.

If you ever find yourself wondering just how different the climate was in the 70s, consider the Halloween John went as a nazi, Christine in blackface as Aunt Jemima:shocked:
Shocking (as is homophobia), but since I wasn't around at the time and don't really have the context I try to convince myself that I can ignore it and that Chris has always been just as socially liberal as I want her to be.

[CreepingDeath]

If you ever find yourself wondering just how different the climate was in the 70s, consider the Halloween John went as a nazi, Christine in blackface as Aunt Jemima:shocked:
Shocking, as is homophobia, but since I wasn't around at the time and don't really have the context, I try to convince myself that I can ignore it, and that Chris has always been just as socially liberal as I want her to be.


And in the midst of it all, Lindsey as a most unfitting priest. :lol:

[kick.inside]

If you ever find yourself wondering just how different the climate was in the 70s, consider the Halloween John went as a nazi, Christine in blackface as Aunt Jemima:shocked:
Shocking (as is homophobia), but since I wasn't around at the time and don't really have the context I try to convince myself that I can ignore it and that Chris has always been just as socially liberal as I want her to be.

Those Halloween pictures are just awful. :laugh:
Chris has always seemed very liberal to me, actually. I don't know how liberal she actually is, but she seems like it.
On the other hand, there are some things she seems very shy about. For example, she was embarrassed to use the word "dildo" in an interview around the time of ITM. Maybe that's just English propriety, though.

[jbrownsjr]

Those Halloween pictures are just awful. :laugh:
Chris has always seemed very liberal to me, actually. I don't know how liberal she actually is, but she seems like it.
On the other hand, there are some things she seems very shy about. For example, she was embarrassed to use the word "dildo" in an interview around the time of ITM. Maybe that's just English propriety, though.

Which interview was that? dildo?

[kick.inside]

Which interview was that? dildo?

Eek, took me awhile to find it because I couldn't remember which interview it was from.


"Jeremy Spencer was vulgar and rude but funny. Used to come onstage and do things with a...well, you know," she wrinkles her nose leaving me to supply the missing word ‘dildo’.
Here's the whole thing -
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=926&c=2

[jbrownsjr]

Eek, took me awhile to find it because I couldn't remember which interview it was from.


Here's the whole thing -
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=926&c=2

oh yeah!!!! lol awesome11

[Fannymac]

I remember being at a Beach Boys concert....Dennis was drunk out of his mind, and at one point start to verbally bash Stevie and "praise" Christine.....he basically tried to drag her up on stage, but she refused. Even with her sitting down in her seat, you could FEEL her embarassment!
There was NO WAY the relationship would EVER last!

[jbrownsjr]

are you sure that wasn't homer/ lol

[jellyman10]

It is a constant source of cognitive dissonance to me that, as much as love and admire Fleetwood Mac, the women have chosen to liaise themselves with some absolutely massive bawbags. I swear, Dennis Wilson makes Joe Walsh look like a rank amateur, in the matter of disrespecting, abusing and generally demeaning someone who is in every way his superior. All I can say is that Chris and Stevie's panties must've been running the show for many years, until they wore out and they had to deploy the flimsier tissue of their brains. I cringe for them. Dreadful, dreadful men, and they chose them. I am speechless - but most of the time I just pretend it didn't happen and that they're actually the strong, independent artists that I want them to be.

Loz

[jbrownsjr]

It is a constant source of cognitive dissonance to me that, as much as love and admire Fleetwood Mac, the women have chosen to liaise themselves with some absolutely massive bawbags. I swear, Dennis Wilson makes Joe Walsh look like a rank amateur, in the matter of disrespecting, abusing and generally demeaning someone who is in every way his superior. All I can say is that Chris and Stevie's panties must've been running the show for many years, until they wore out and they had to deploy the flimsier tissue of their brains. I cringe for them. Dreadful, dreadful men, and they chose them. I am speechless - but most of the time I just pretend it didn't happen and that they're actually the strong, independent artists that I want them to be.

Loz

Agree... but you can be strong, independent as an artist and still suck and picking men... (i'm looking in the mirror) lol

[mezzoforte]

It is a constant source of cognitive dissonance to me that, as much as love and admire Fleetwood Mac, the women have chosen to liaise themselves with some absolutely massive bawbags. I swear, Dennis Wilson makes Joe Walsh look like a rank amateur, in the matter of disrespecting, abusing and generally demeaning someone who is in every way his superior. All I can say is that Chris and Stevie's panties must've been running the show for many years, until they wore out and they had to deploy the flimsier tissue of their brains. I cringe for them. Dreadful, dreadful men, and they chose them. I am speechless - but most of the time I just pretend it didn't happen and that they're actually the strong, independent artists that I want them to be.

Loz

Hmm, this seems kind of disrespectful of Stevie and Christine. Chris planned to marry Dennis, and Stevie's spoken very convincingly about how she and Joe "just got each other." Who are we, not having met any of the people involved, to presume that these significant relationships were in fact nothing more than panties aflame?

Of course, there's no denying that Dennis had many flaws--his use of Chris's funds is absolutely maddening, and apparently he was something of a homophobe. But I don't doubt that he also had extraordinary qualities. I have to think CAH captured Dennis pretty well--as magnetic and charming as he was irresponsible. Storms may have had many flaws, but I really appreciated her memories of Dennis because I could really see why Chris fell in love with him, and why it could never have worked.

A few crazy, roller coaster years don't make Chris less of an independent woman or artist. I actually admire that she, nearing 40 and following a divorce, was open to this wild relationship.

[nicepace]

I disagree with the implication that Chris indulged in serial bad relationships. Both her marriages were good for a time, and neither of the men she married was a scoundrel. I'm no expert on her personal life, since I mainly pay attention to the music, but it seems to me that she had some good luck, some bad, in relationships, and much of that may have been due to the unstable lifestyle of being in a wildly successful rock band.

[jellyman10]

Hmm, this seems kind of disrespectful of Stevie and Christine. Chris planned to marry Dennis, and Stevie's spoken very convincingly about how she and Joe "just got each other." Who are we, not having met any of the people involved, to presume that these significant relationships were in fact nothing more than panties aflame?



You're right. I am exactly talking about the aspect of these two women that I find it impossible to respect, ergo it is disrespectful. Sorry, but there you go. I have read remarks on this board that make what I said look like a mash note, but by all means pick on this.

As for who I am to presume anything? I'm no one, of course. All I can say in explanation is that when I was an undergraduate studying English Lit, it was a source of amazement to me that people could spend an entire career studying the characters in, say, the novels of Thomas Hardy. Decades. Decades of full-time, prestigious work spent probing into the motives and psychology of people that Hardy had made up!

I don't apologise, therefore, for being interested in CM and SN as women, as artists, as women-artists, as icons, and as people. I do apologise for the fact that I could have phrased my speculation more politely.

I'll shut up now.

Loz

[jellyman10]

It seems to me that she had some good luck, some bad, in relationships, and much of that may have been due to the unstable lifestyle of being in a wildly successful rock band.

I'm sure you're right. There are quite a lot of women in rock who 'end up' single, though, so it must in some ways go with the territory. I guess the legit interesting question I'm trying to probe is why that should be the case? Genuinely sorry if you find that irrelevant/annoying/distasteful. I'm just thinking.

Loz

[louielouie2000]

Eek, took me awhile to find it because I couldn't remember which interview it was from.

Here's the whole thing -
http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=926&c=2

That's one of my fav interviews of a Mac member. It's just so honest, straightforward, and revealing. I have to admit that it's a bit tough to navigate all the British slang & colloquialisms, though. Makes me wonder if Brits have a hard time reading some American interviews of Mac members? :cool:

[jellyman10]

Makes me wonder if Brits have a hard time reading some American interviews of Mac members? :cool:

Speaking for myself, no. Not at all. We Brits have been thoroughly colonised since the 70s, and are entirely au fait with US English. As a copy editor, I am in fact often briefed to remove Americanisms from native British writers' work.

Loz

[markolas]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I think it was pretty normal to be even just a little homophobic in the 60s/70s right? Maybe not but it's nice to convince yourself.

'60s & '70s? Open, flagrant homophobia was perfectly acceptable well into the '90s. They were still calling us "fags" in movies and song lyrics into the late '80s, at least.

Everyone loves Ellen now, but people were ready to burn her at the stake when she came out back in '97. She had a really hard time getting work for several years after that, yet now she's a bigger name than she ever was. And it's not because she went back into the closet, or "stopped flaunting her sexuality" or some such nonsense. Times have changed.

It would not surprise me if Christine, Mick, Lindsey, John, and even Stevie were at least a little homophobic well into the 1980s, if not later.

[HomerMcvie]

are you sure that wasn't homer/ lol

Are you implying that I like to drink, bash Steve E., and praise Christine?:mad:









:lol::lol::lol:
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

Are you implying that I like to drink, bash Steve E., and praise Christine?:mad:









:lol::lol::lol:
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

never!!! :)

[jbrownsjr]

It would not surprise me if Christine, Mick, Lindsey, John, and even Stevie were at least a little homophobic well into the 1980s, if not later.

How can 5 drag queens be homophobic!

[HomerMcvie]

How can 5 drag queens be homophobic!

John is the only exception, in that troupe!:lol:

[jbrownsjr]

John is the only exception, in that troupe!:lol:

4 drag queens and a bass player

[CADreaming]

^Guess that's true:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/images/2009/01/08/ms_the_music_book_fleetwood_mac_3.jpg

[SteveMacD]

Speaking for myself, no. Not at all. We Brits have been thoroughly colonised since the 70s, and are entirely au fait with US English. As a copy editor, I am in fact often briefed to remove Americanisms from native British writers' work.

Still easier than removing Geordisms...

[Gailh]

Still easier than removing Geordisms...

Why aye pet!

[jbrownsjr]

^Guess that's true:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/images/2009/01/08/ms_the_music_book_fleetwood_mac_3.jpg

haha!!! i was thinking about that pic too!!! isn't that weird? lol

[michelej1]

Was reading this transcript about Dennis and Christine and how they first came together, from a radio interview about the Beach Boys:

These were dark days for Dennis. His second marriage to Karen had failed, the Bamboo sessions were faltering, and worst of all, Brother Studio, his recording base, was in financial trouble. The Beach Boys, who owned the studio, put it up for sale.

We were trying to sell it to Fleetwood Mac at this point. There was a lot of interest from Lindsey Buckingham, a big Beach Boy fan. So Lindsey would come by with Mick Fleetwood and look at the studio with John mcvie, and they were very interested in taking it over. So we started to all become sort of friends, and Dennis initially was trying to hit on Stevie Nicks. And in the process, Stevie didn't show much interest in Dennis, but christine mcvie became quite enamoured with him.

I think he was just in awe of her musical talent and it was something that bonded between them that first night that materialised within 24 hours. And they were great for each other for a time. What this ended up doing for Dennis was that it increased his access to a lot of things. I mean, the Beach Boys were big, but Fleetwood Mac at that time, coming off of Rumours, they were really, literally, the biggest band in the world. He was enamoured with the fact that Christine was selling more records than the Beach Boys ever did, and christine had unlimited funds for drugs and what-have-you. And so all that was very intoxicating to him. He became enamoured by the things around Christine as opposed to maybe christine's beauty, if that makes sense. That summer, Dennis and Christine divided their time between the Harmony and christine's house.

There was a party at Christine McVie's up in the Holmby Hills, near Beverly Hills area, lovely home, big white house on the hill, big lawn that goes down to the pool, and then there's a pool house. It was a comfortable Beverly Hills home, and there was a nice little shack at the far end of the property that was a pool house, and Dennis adopted it as his own. And the night that the disaster happened, I happened to be up in the bedroom, in christine's bedroom, and she looked out the window at one point and said, "My God, what are those flames?" Dennis had burned down the pool house. He was fooling around down there with candles to make it romantic. And christine is coming down the stairs, and that's when christine delivered her great line of, "Bit excessive, your friend, Dennis." He had the gardener plant this very large heart in the lawn with all different-coloured flowers, and of course it went on christine's gardener bill, which was fun. But that's Dennis for you. In 1979, Dennis was facing a far greater loss which couldn't be remedied with hearts and flowers, as the Beach Boys finally sold Brother Studio. Dennis was creatively homeless.

Dennis's relationship with Christine mcvie was another casualty of his lifestyle. After they split, she described him as half-little boy and half-insane. Months later, Dennis met an attractive teenage blonde. She went by the name of Shaun Love, and although Mike denied it, claimed to be Mike Love's illegitimate daughter.

[jbrownsjr]

Never knew they were trying to sell the studio to FMac...