Gaga nixxes deal with Target over recent donations to anti-gay political groups

[KarmaContestant]

First:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/08/lady-gaga-ends-target-lgbt_n_833209.html

"Born This Way" is Lady Gaga's minority and gay rights anthem, and as such, she's decided not to partner with a chain retailer known for its donations to anti-gay rights political candidates.

Metro Weekly reports, citing sources close to the deal, that Lady Gaga has nixed her deal for an exclusive special edition of her upcoming album; The Advocate then reported that a source close to Gaga said that the company's continued political activity -- specifically the main stumbling block.

"She and Target didn't see eye to eye on Target's policy of political donations and how they affect the LGBT community," the source told the magazine's website.

In July, it was revealed that Target's Political Action Committee had made donations to MN Forward, a PAC that supportered Minnesota State Rep. Tom Emmer's campaign for governor. Emmer is a hardline conservative who holds staunch anti-gay rights stances, and has been linked to a ministry that advocates killing gay people.

Following the revelation, Target CEO Gregg Steinhafel apologized and promised Target would more closely oversee its donations, but in December it was discovered that the company's PAC had donated over $30,000 to anti-gay rights politicians, 3/4 of its political spending in 2010. That included donations to MN Reps. Erik Paulsen and John Kline, both of whom are vehemently anti-gay rights.

When Gaga first struck the deal with the retailer in February, she noted the difficulty she had with Target's history, and said that it had become part of their negotiations.

"That discussion was one of the most intense conversations I've ever had in a business meeting," the singer told Billboard.com. "Part of my deal with Target is that they have to start affiliating themselves with LGBT charity groups and begin to reform and make amends for the mistakes they've made in the past...our relationship is hinged upon their reform in the company to support the gay community and to redeem the mistakes they've made supporting those groups."

She's been an outspoken advocate of gay rights, making speeches to advocate the repeal of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" and suggesting that homophobic soldiers be discharged.


and then -


http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/marc_malkin/b230179_target_lady_gaga_surprised_disappointed.html


Target hasn't exactly told Lady Gaga to stick her disco stick where the sun don't shine, but the retail giant is finally commenting on the music superstar's decision to walk away from an exclusive partnership she recently launched with the company.

It was revealed yesterday that Gaga ended a deal with Target to sell her new album Born This Way because she's reportedly not pleased with how they make their political contributions and how such decisions impact the gay community.

A rep for Gaga confirmed they're no longer in business, calling the decision "mutual."

However…

Target isn't happy with how things have played out.

"We were very surprised and disappointed by the statements made by Lady Gaga's organization related to her partnership with Target," the company said in statement released this afternoon. "Target remains committed to the LGBT community as demonstrated by our contributions to various LGBT organizations, our recently established Policy Committee to review our political giving and our respectful, inclusive workplace environment."

Target came under fire last year for contributing to a political action committee that supported Tom Emmer, an antigay politician who ran for governor of Minnesota.

Gaga had said she signed the deal with Target after she was assured by company executives that it would change its policies on political donations and further its relationships with gay charities.

While a Target spokesperson outlined several new gay initiatives in an interview with Billboard magazine last month, it apparently wasn't enough for Gaga.

A rep for Gaga did not immediately comment for this story.

[louielouie2000]

I read about this earlier today. To me, the second article clearly points out that this is simply more of Gaga's relentless, desperate attention seeking at work. This is yet another example of why I don't buy Gaga's proclamation of being a gay rights advocate. It's just like when she campaigned against Prop 8... she was wearing yet another ridiculous outfit/persona for the occasion. If she simply would have shown up for that Prop 8 event wearing nondescript street clothes, and spoke plainly and from the heart, she truly could have incited an intelligent and honest national debate on the issue. But that's not what she did at all... she showed up in this ridiculous caricature of an advocate. And the Target campaign contribution is a pretty old issue now... she knew Target couldn't undo it at this point. The fact they were willing to donate to LGBT issues at ALL is a pretty big step for Target, IMO. They're just hands off hot button issues, from what I can tell.

I have to admit, the whole Target campaign contribution issue befuddled me when it came to light last year. They've always been such a revered company to most LGBT folks. They seemed to be biting the hand that has helped feed them for so long. I realize Target Corp was likely interested in that particular political candidate for fiscal and not social issues... but it was still surprising. But that hasn't made me stop shopping there, though. I'm such a bad homosexual. I still shop at Target, get gas at Exxon, and eat at Chic-Fil-A. My view is they're private companies and can act as they wish, they provide great services and products, and I don't really care what their corporate policies are, otherwise. It's not like any of those companies are saying LGBT folks can't come to their retail locations, after all.

[Jondalar]

I read about this earlier today. To me, the second article clearly points out that this is simply more of Gaga's relentless, desperate attention seeking at work. This is yet another example of why I don't buy Gaga's proclamation of being a gay rights advocate. It's just like when she campaigned against Prop 8... she was wearing yet another ridiculous outfit/persona for the occasion. If she simply would have shown up for that Prop 8 event wearing nondescript street clothes, and spoke plainly and from the heart, she truly could have incited an intelligent and honest national debate on the issue. But that's not what she did at all... she showed up in this ridiculous caricature of an advocate. And the Target campaign contribution is a pretty old issue now... she knew Target couldn't undo it at this point. The fact they were willing to donate to LGBT issues at ALL is a pretty big step for Target, IMO. They're just hands off hot button issues, from what I can tell.

I have to admit, the whole Target campaign contribution issue befuddled me when it came to light last year. They've always been such a revered company to most LGBT folks. They seemed to be biting the hand that has helped feed them for so long. I realize Target Corp was likely interested in that particular political candidate for fiscal and not social issues... but it was still surprising. But that hasn't made me stop shopping there, though. I'm such a bad homosexual. I still shop at Target, get gas at Exxon, and eat at Chic-Fil-A. My view is they're private companies and can act as they wish, they provide great services and products, and I don't really care what their corporate policies are, otherwise. It's not like any of those companies are saying LGBT folks can't come to their retail locations, after all.

This is all true. I totally get you. However, I'm glad she is doing it. She is the opposite of the Sarah Palin.

[louielouie2000]

This is all true. I totally get you. However, I'm glad she is doing it. She is the opposite of the Sarah Palin.

Part of me definitely feels that way as well. The left has so long rolled over and let the right dish out the whippings, too... it's nice to have someone who vocally stands up for my personal interests, even if it is for their own selfish reasons.

Another part of me feels people like Gaga is doing LGBT folks no favors because she's just so nutty in appearance and actions. She kinda furthers the stereotype that all LGBT folks wear insane clothes, do drugs, and live lives that are thoroughly outside of the mainstream... which simply isn't true. I guess if nothing else, Gaga is good at inciting discourse. Here we are doing just that!

[Jondalar]

Part of me definitely feels that way as well. The left has so long rolled over and let the right dish out the whippings, too... it's nice to have someone who vocally stands up for my personal interests, even if it is for their own selfish reasons.

Another part of me feels people like Gaga is doing LGBT folks no favors because she's just so nutty in appearance and actions. She kinda furthers the stereotype that all LGBT folks wear insane clothes, do drugs, and live lives that are thoroughly outside of the mainstream... which simply isn't true. I guess if nothing else, Gaga is good at inciting discourse. Here we are doing just that!

Well she is doing what Madonna did. Gay people are her bread and butter, just like Madonna. She needs the trends and for longevity. She probably really does like gay folk, but what she does is obvious. Money, money, money. I'm not a big fan Gaga, because I've seen it all before and I don't think it's new. However, I cannot see Gaga being mean to anybody. I can see Sarah Palin being mean to people. Although I cannot stand when the press loses it's objectivety, especially since I have a degree in Journalism. They picked on her on so much even I had some sympathy. I think Gaga better watch out. With success comes the backlash.

[fringed n fab]

I love my Chick-fil-A too Louie. :lol:

[BombaySapphire3]

Although her music doesn't really interest me much I actually like Gaga..Madonna on the other hand is execrable.

[daniellaaarisen]

I read about this earlier today. To me, the second article clearly points out that this is simply more of Gaga's relentless, desperate attention seeking at work. This is yet another example of why I don't buy Gaga's proclamation of being a gay rights advocate. It's just like when she campaigned against Prop 8... she was wearing yet another ridiculous outfit/persona for the occasion. If she simply would have shown up for that Prop 8 event wearing nondescript street clothes, and spoke plainly and from the heart, she truly could have incited an intelligent and honest national debate on the issue. But that's not what she did at all... she showed up in this ridiculous caricature of an advocate. And the Target campaign contribution is a pretty old issue now... she knew Target couldn't undo it at this point. The fact they were willing to donate to LGBT issues at ALL is a pretty big step for Target, IMO. They're just hands off hot button issues, from what I can tell.

I have to admit, the whole Target campaign contribution issue befuddled me when it came to light last year. They've always been such a revered company to most LGBT folks. They seemed to be biting the hand that has helped feed them for so long. I realize Target Corp was likely interested in that particular political candidate for fiscal and not social issues... but it was still surprising. But that hasn't made me stop shopping there, though. I'm such a bad homosexual. I still shop at Target, get gas at Exxon, and eat at Chic-Fil-A. My view is they're private companies and can act as they wish, they provide great services and products, and I don't really care what their corporate policies are, otherwise. It's not like any of those companies are saying LGBT folks can't come to their retail locations, after all.

I'm pretty interested in her public persona, largely because I do see how it is irritating and she used to bug the sh*t out of me. I've read/watched a lot of interviews and I honestly believe that she's a smart cookie when it comes to this stuff. You NEVER hear about her personal life in the media. She's had the same boyfriend for 5 years and most people don't know anything about him. Her family is crazy, never hear about them either. So from a fame standpoint, it's partially that she is protecting her personal life.

In regards to the Prop 8 thing, her speech was excellent. What she was wearing shouldn't matter. It wasn't even that ridiculous-- a spin off a politician's outfit. Totally, totally conservative for her-- she goes to dinner in corsets, fishnets and 10 inch shoes. She doesn't do "street clothes" and hadn't since 5 years BEFORE she was Lady Gaga... she wore similar stuff before she was famous.

I don't know, I think she's doing an awful lot to the LGBT community. I don't think she's doing any of it for selfish reasons. She would still be the most successful pop icon in the world today without speaking a word about the LGBT community-- just like Britney Spears, Madonna, etc. You don't need to speak out about a demographic to be an icon to that demographic, and I think she knows that she'd have the "gay allegiance" even if she wasn't talking about her gay fans. She's just being proactive about it, she recognizes her power on a global scale and she's using it to help others, and I don't see how anyone can think that is TOTALLY selfish, even if it has helped her career.

There's no denying that she's bringing more LGBT awareness globally than anyone else right now, and that in itself should be something to be thankful for.

[markolas]

Another part of me feels people like Gaga is doing LGBT folks no favors because she's just so nutty in appearance and actions. She kinda furthers the stereotype that all LGBT folks wear insane clothes, do drugs, and live lives that are thoroughly outside of the mainstream... which simply isn't true. I guess if nothing else, Gaga is good at inciting discourse. Here we are doing just that!

Ugh. Don't get me started on this. This idea that gay folk are supposed to be as vanilla as humanly possible so as to not upset the heteros annoys the living crap out of me. Then there's that whole "straight-acting" BS. You can drink all the beer and watch all the football you want - if you suck d&ck, you're not "straight-acting." And it doesn't make homophobes hate you any less.

[KarmaContestant]

I have to admit, the whole Target campaign contribution issue befuddled me when it came to light last year. They've always been such a revered company to most LGBT folks. They seemed to be biting the hand that has helped feed them for so long. I realize Target Corp was likely interested in that particular political candidate for fiscal and not social issues... but it was still surprising. But that hasn't made me stop shopping there, though. I'm such a bad homosexual. I still shop at Target, get gas at Exxon, and eat at Chic-Fil-A. My view is they're private companies and can act as they wish, they provide great services and products, and I don't really care what their corporate policies are, otherwise. It's not like any of those companies are saying LGBT folks can't come to their retail locations, after all.

Target is a home-decor mecca for gays. :laugh: I'm the exact opposite of you in respect to avoiding particular companies. I don't shop at Target anymore because of their donations to political wackos. Sometimes, it's seems like it would be better not to know these things that our favorite companies do, but in the end I feel good about not supporting businesses that do things I find morally unpalatable. I wouldn't be friends with someone who donated money to a guy who wants me to die - so I'm not going to give my business to a company that does it either.

It's also worth mentioning that those places aren't really private companies - they have publicly traded stock, but I know what you meant. :p

I could totally see Wal-Mart trying to get an deal out of this.

Ultimately, I don't care if Target is selling her album there or not, since I'm not going to be buying it and I don't shop at Target anyway, but I thought the story was interesting. These are strange times we live in.

[louielouie2000]

Ugh. Don't get me started on this. This idea that gay folk are supposed to be as vanilla as humanly possible so as to not upset the heteros annoys the living crap out of me. Then there's that whole "straight-acting" BS. You can drink all the beer and watch all the football you want - if you suck d&ck, you're not "straight-acting." And it doesn't make homophobes hate you any less.

I sooo don't drink beer or watch football :laugh:. But that's not what I meant, anyway. I just meant that my life is pretty boring and average outside of the sex of the person I'm dating. I don't spend my life in nightclubs, I don't do drugs, I don't have promiscuous sex, I don't dress up in pink boas in parades... I just pay my bills and live life like everyone else. I certainly don't hide who I am (everyone who's ever known me knows I'm gay), and I don't change who I am around anyone.

I guess people like Gaga and Adam Lambert just bug the crap outta me because they seem to be the only examples of what gay icons are like. They just seem to be crazily heightened stereotypes. Meanwhile, I have gay friends who build cars, who are dentists, realtors, attorneys, teachers, bankers, etc. Gay people aren't just glitter and drama... they're as diverse as any other group. THAT'S all I was getting at. :wavey:

[louielouie2000]

Well she is doing what Madonna did. Gay people are her bread and butter, just like Madonna. She needs the trends and for longevity. She probably really does like gay folk, but what she does is obvious. Money, money, money. I'm not a big fan Gaga, because I've seen it all before and I don't think it's new. However, I cannot see Gaga being mean to anybody. I can see Sarah Palin being mean to people. Although I cannot stand when the press loses it's objectivety, especially since I have a degree in Journalism. They picked on her on so much even I had some sympathy. I think Gaga better watch out. With success comes the backlash.

And that's another reason why I have a problem with Gaga. I truly don't believe she's a selfless cheerleader for LGBT folks. It's just another way for her to gain attention and ultimately money. She just seems to be using our population for her own means. And I get so worked up that LGBT folks fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

[Jondalar]

And that's another reason why I have a problem with Gaga. I truly don't believe she's a selfless cheerleader for LGBT folks. It's just another way for her to gain attention and ultimately money. She just seems to be using our population for her own means. And I get so worked up that LGBT folks fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

Well, we don't fall for it hook, line and sinker. Sure, she is trying to make a buck. I know what she doing, but I just don't think that Gaga is a mean person, so I don't care. Besides, not everyone in the gay community acts like a disco ball queen. She's appealing to that segment that WANTS a queen, not the other population who sits around and drinks beer like me. I'm a fan of Stevie because I like deep, atmospheric music that lets me escape into a different world. I love 70s and early 80s music. I like earthy, smoky music. Love Lucinda Williams, yet also like Bjork. Gaga can't touch those people. That dance crap is really just for casual listeners and the gay crowd who frequent clubs all the time. Gets her tons of media attention too, which helps sales. And Gaga is hurting herself with the costumes. People are getting sick of listening to an Easter Egg.

[KarmaContestant]

And that's another reason why I have a problem with Gaga. I truly don't believe she's a selfless cheerleader for LGBT folks. It's just another way for her to gain attention and ultimately money. She just seems to be using our population for her own means. And I get so worked up that LGBT folks fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

I can kind of see your argument here - especially since Gaga is on record as saying she studied fame and has contrived the best possible path to achieve her goal by observing and implementing what has worked for others.

However, if one was just after money and fame, I hardly think a minority is the target population to achieve wealth and worldwide success. If anything, she'd have more success as a gay-hating Palin-wanna-be, since they clearly outnumber you and I. Most of the people I know who love Gaga are straight, honestly. Most of the gays I know see her as a Madonna-hack, but agree that her music is fun to dance to...and it is! I do believe her concern for equality and human decency for ALL people comes from a place of truth and is very representative of the current generation of youth. You make it sound like she's Dr. Evil, purposely manipulating us for greed and fame, and honestly, that just comes off as a little bit paranoid and conspiracy-ish. :cool:

[louielouie2000]

I can kind of see your argument here - especially since Gaga is on record as saying she studied fame and has contrived the best possible path to achieve her goal by observing and implementing what has worked for others.

However, if one was just after money and fame, I hardly think a minority is the target population to achieve wealth and worldwide success. If anything, she'd have more success as a gay-hating Palin-wanna-be, since they clearly outnumber you and I. Most of the people I know who love Gaga are straight, honestly. Most of the gays I know see her as a Madonna-hack, but agree that her music is fun to dance to...and it is! I do believe her concern for equality and human decency for ALL people comes from a place of truth and is very representative of the current generation of youth. You make it sound like she's Dr. Evil, purposely manipulating us for greed and fame, and honestly, that just comes off as a little bit paranoid and conspiracy-ish. :cool:

You probably have, but read up about LGBT buying power sometime... we're a formidable group of people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_money

LGBT folks have a lot of cash in their pockets and spend it on things like entertainment. Obviously this stems from the fact most of us do not have children to support.

I used to feel the same way about Kathy Griffin, by the way. I felt she was simply pandering to gays to get her foot into the door of fame. After all, as Samantha said on Sex And The City: "First the gays, then the girls, and then the industry!" There just seems to be such a fine line between celebs smartly using LGBT folks as stepping stones vs truly being cheerleaders for them. I respect Kathy now... perhaps I will Gaga in the future. I am always way, WAY behind the curve! :lol:

[Jondalar]

You probably have, but read up about LGBT buying power sometime... we're a formidable group of people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_money

LGBT folks have a lot of cash in their pockets and spend it on things like entertainment. Obviously this stems from the fact most of us do not have children to support.

I used to feel the same way about Kathy Griffin, by the way. I felt she was simply pandering to gays to get her foot into the door of fame. After all, as Samantha said on Sex And The City: "First the gays, then the girls, and then the industry!" There just seems to be such a fine line between celebs smartly using LGBT folks as stepping stones vs truly being cheerleaders for them. I respect Kathy now... perhaps I will Gaga in the future. I am always way, WAY behind the curve! :lol:

Ok. Kathy Griffin is another matter. She is mean. And does anyone actually think that Kathy cares about anyone other than herself.

[HomerMcvie]

I sooo don't drink beer or watch football :laugh:. But that's not what I meant, anyway. I just meant that my life is pretty boring and average outside of the sex of the person I'm dating. I don't spend my life in nightclubs, I don't do drugs, I don't have promiscuous sex, I don't dress up in pink boas in parades... I just pay my bills and live life like everyone else. I certainly don't hide who I am (everyone who's ever known me knows I'm gay), and I don't change who I am around anyone.

I guess people like Gaga and Adam Lambert just bug the crap outta me because they seem to be the only examples of what gay icons are like. They just seem to be crazily heightened stereotypes. Meanwhile, I have gay friends who build cars, who are dentists, realtors, attorneys, teachers, bankers, etc. Gay people aren't just glitter and drama... they're as diverse as any other group. THAT'S all I was getting at. :wavey:
Mr. Moderator, can you look into, adding a "like button", on the Ledge?
Because the above post, needs one.:)

[daniellaaarisen]

I stand by what I said-- she was iconized by this demographic before she outwardly spoke about the said demographic. She'd still be a "gay icon" (and the biggest pop star in the world) if she didn't support their rights in the blatant way that she does. I think she's honestly using her fame to help a cause she's passionate about. :shrug:

[KarmaContestant]

You probably have, but read up about LGBT buying power sometime... we're a formidable group of people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_money

LGBT folks have a lot of cash in their pockets and spend it on things like entertainment. Obviously this stems from the fact most of us do not have children to support.


Yes, yes. When I moved to Denver in 1992, the state was in the midst of a very public, very hateful campaign to strip civil rights from gays (literally - as in - I'm evicting you because you are gay. I'm refusing to sell you a car because you're gay. I'm not putting out the fire burning down your house because you are gay.) This very awful ballot measure was passed 51/49% - Amendment 2. It was declared unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court, and is barely remembered these days.

The single biggest marketing ploy that was used to get people to vote for this was that gays had pockets full of cash and that we didn't need 'special rights'.

Yes, many gays have a lot of disposable income - but I still think it's reaching pretty far to believe Gaga set out to get rich off gay people because we will stereotypically like her flashy clothing and dance beats. :lol:

[Christopher]

Let's just all hope now Stevie won't do some "Target Exclusive" with In Your Dreams. Can you imagine the conflict that her gay following would have after this debacle....:shrug:

I'd probably still go there & buy it if it had a exclusive track. Art over Commerce or Commerce over Art...wait I'm confused now...who's side am I on ;)

[KarmaContestant]

Let's just all hope now Stevie won't do some "Target Exclusive" with In Your Dreams. Can you imagine the conflict that her gay following would have after this debacle....:shrug:

I'd probably still go there & buy it if it had a exclusive track. Art over Commerce or Commerce over Art...wait I'm confused now...who's side am I on ;)

I buy all of my CDs at a local Denver indie store ( Twist & Shout - I'm guessing you're familiar with it). A Target exclusive track would be unfortunate, for me individually.

[Christopher]

I buy all of my CDs at a local Denver indie store ( Twist & Shout - I'm guessing you're familiar with it). A Target exclusive track would be unfortunate, for me individually.

Love Twist and Shout! I find myself there and The Tattered Cover a lot. I live near by.
I always prefer to give the locals my biz before going to the big chains. BUT if Stevie had a Target exclusive, I'd go down and buy that sucker in a split second and put my politics "on the mantle" for the occasion. Lets just hope she sells her "deluxe" IYD CD through some other outlet. Though you must admit that a exclusive through Target would be great exposure for her. Adele did it, and Ricky Martin had no problem with Targets politics apparently:rolleyes:.

[KarmaContestant]

Love Twist and Shout! I find myself there and The Tattered Cover a lot. I live near by.
I always prefer to give the locals my biz before going to the big chains. BUT if Stevie had a Target exclusive, I'd go down and buy that sucker in a split second and put my politics "on the mantle" for the occasion. Lets just hope she sells her "deluxe" IYD CD through some other outlet. Though you must admit that a exclusive through Target would be great exposure for her. Adele did it, and Ricky Martin had no problem with Targets politics apparently:rolleyes:.

Straying off topic, here, but is there a deluxe version planned? I'm seriously hoping so!

[fringed n fab]

I sooo don't drink beer or watch football :laugh:. But that's not what I meant, anyway. I just meant that my life is pretty boring and average outside of the sex of the person I'm dating. I don't spend my life in nightclubs, I don't do drugs, I don't have promiscuous sex, I don't dress up in pink boas in parades... I just pay my bills and live life like everyone else. I certainly don't hide who I am (everyone who's ever known me knows I'm gay), and I don't change who I am around anyone. I guess people like Gaga and Adam Lambert just bug the crap outta me because they seem to be the only examples of what gay icons are like. They just seem to be crazily heightened stereotypes. Meanwhile, I have gay friends who build cars, who are dentists, realtors, attorneys, teachers, bankers, etc. Gay people aren't just glitter and drama... they're as diverse as any other group. THAT'S all I was getting at. :wavey:

You sound like me and I know what you're getting at. That not all gays lead colorful outrageous lives like some personas have you believe.

[fringed n fab]

Ok. Kathy Griffin is another matter. She is mean. And does anyone actually think that Kathy cares about anyone other than herself.

I still can't believe she spent 30,000 on a custom sofa. :shocked:

[markolas]

I sooo don't drink beer or watch football :laugh:. But that's not what I meant, anyway. I just meant that my life is pretty boring and average outside of the sex of the person I'm dating. I don't spend my life in nightclubs, I don't do drugs, I don't have promiscuous sex, I don't dress up in pink boas in parades... I just pay my bills and live life like everyone else. I certainly don't hide who I am (everyone who's ever known me knows I'm gay), and I don't change who I am around anyone.

I guess people like Gaga and Adam Lambert just bug the crap outta me because they seem to be the only examples of what gay icons are like. They just seem to be crazily heightened stereotypes. Meanwhile, I have gay friends who build cars, who are dentists, realtors, attorneys, teachers, bankers, etc. Gay people aren't just glitter and drama... they're as diverse as any other group. THAT'S all I was getting at. :wavey:

I barely know who Adam Lambert and Lady Gaga are, so I'm not so much talking about them...

Yes, gay folk are diverse, but I reject the idea that we're "just like straight people except for one thing" which is sort of the vibe I got from your post, but I could just be projecting, since my patience for that kind of thinking has worn extremely thin. :)

I don't wear pink boas either, but I'm not like any straight person I know, and wouldn't want to be.

[louielouie2000]

I barely know who Adam Lambert and Lady Gaga are, so I'm not so much talking about them...

Yes, gay folk are diverse, but I reject the idea that we're "just like straight people except for one thing" which is sort of the vibe I got from your post, but I could just be projecting, since my patience for that kind of thinking has worn extremely thin. :)

I don't wear pink boas either, but I'm not like any straight person I know, and wouldn't want to be.

So you really think gays are fundamentally different as humans? I'd have to guess you believe Muslims are fundamentally different from Christians, too? Blacks from whites?

My only point from my post was this: People are people are people. Regardless of sexuality, religion, ethnicity, race, etc we all strive for the same core things: happiness, love, prosperity, etc. Regardless of whatever box people try to plop others into so they can be labeled and differentiated, we are all more similar than not when it comes down to it. That's all I'm getting at. And that's why I have a problem being associated with the likes of Gaga, Lambert, etc. Because that paints gays as this freakish sub population... which we really aren't. We're just people, like everyone else.

[fringed n fab]

I don't see us any different than straight people. People are people as Louie said.

[KarmaContestant]

My only point from my post was this: People are people are people. Regardless of sexuality, religion, ethnicity, race, etc we all strive for the same core things: happiness, love, prosperity, etc. Regardless of whatever box people try to plop others into so they can be labeled and differentiated, we are all more similar than not when it comes down to it. That's all I'm getting at. And that's why I have a problem being associated with the likes of Gaga, Lambert, etc. Because that paints gays as this freakish sub population... which we really aren't. We're just people, like everyone else.

I don't think that's fair to say. There are many 'freaky' performers on the heterosexual side of things. Alice Cooper, Ozzy Ozbourne, Insane Clown Posse & Marilyn Manson just to name a few. The outrageousness of Gaga and Lambert has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality, and everything to do with stage drama to attract attention as a performer and stand out from the crowd. And Lady Gaga is no more gay than Madonna. Every artist creates a stage persona that hides or exaggerates their normal self.

[markolas]

So you really think gays are fundamentally different as humans?

People are people are people. Regardless of sexuality, religion, ethnicity, race, etc we all strive for the same core things: happiness, love, prosperity, etc.

But different groups of people define those things very differently. Generally speaking, gay people have a point-of-view that is very different from that of straight people, and it colors damn near everything about us. And it's the same with blacks/whites, Muslims/Christians, etc.

I would not be the same person at all if I were straight. I would likely have had no reason to question the things that I questioned, and would've made very different choices because of that.

I might not be a flaming queen, but I would feel immeasurably more comfortable around a group of them than I would around a group of straight guys who might look, act, and talk more like I do.

[daniellaaarisen]

I don't think that's fair to say. There are many 'freaky' performers on the heterosexual side of things. Alice Cooper, Ozzy Ozbourne, Insane Clown Posse & Marilyn Manson just to name a few. The outrageousness of Gaga and Lambert has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality, and everything to do with stage drama to attract attention as a performer and stand out from the crowd. And Lady Gaga is no more gay than Madonna. Every artist creates a stage persona that hides or exaggerates their normal self.

Completely agreed; well said.

[fringed n fab]

I've always been around and had more straight friends than gay ones. Or maybe I see everyone as just people and not labeled at all. No one saw anyone any different. In my 20's I'd go out to a well known gay nightclub with a group of people but once inside it was all different walks of people and that's what made it fun. Just being there. I think a lot of the reason I never associated with young gays was I liked being around (normal) people and found gays too wild for me lol and we have talked about that lifestyle on The Ledge before. I think the whole wild gay lifestyle is what kept me away from associating with my people for years. So normal people are all I really know. To them, I'm probably the one that's "different" though. And I guess I am. I don't know, I just always see people as being people. I don't label them or classify them into any one group. And I think the same way about people and sex and love and all that when you get right down to the very core of it. Maybe it's just my views on sexuality and all that.

[SaidSomething]

There is so much hatred for each other in this world.
left, right, liberal. Conservative, fundamentalists, gay, straight, girly, lesbian..

I don't discus whom I share my bed with...or what's done in it.

And I do not want to have any blowhard tell me that my love is the wrong kind...sinful...etc. Certain groups such as "the family" "mothers for families" etc...support hate crimes...because of their love for their children. False statistics and fabricated stories that paint homosexuals as predators, sex criminals....etc...need to check in their own kitchen.
Ted Haggard comes to mind. Major politically supported evengelical minister...Pres Bush had him as the good old moral Christian Values guy. He demonized gays in his sermons. Abominations. Serpents. Unclean. Now, remember Ted was molesting a 14yr old boy? Smoking meth with a gay prostitute....in a marriage and condemning those who do what he does. Now he's cured. Capitalizing on his sins of lust toward men have been taken away...and how he was specifically forgiven because he is a man of God.

I will say this...if you want to be included with everyone as an equal....then maybe its best not to march in a parade wearing raucnhy leather jock straps, whips and chains and a dog collar...and mesh leaving nothing to the imagination.
always be proud of who you are...love one another.

Go to youtube and search rachel maddow gay...or sarah pailin gay...or mike huckabee gay.

There you will find hate.

So if Lady Gaga...and her well known image/persona whatever can say, hey everyone look here...this is mean bad and wrong.
and lose a ton of cash because she stands for love...

Girl, you're my hero.

[Jondalar]

I don't see us any different than straight people. People are people as Louie said.

I think that we are a little different. All outsiders are different. We notice more things about behavior because we are not in that mix and can objectively judge. Human beings are basically easy to read when you are into the mix, playing the acceptance game. Some of us will never be accepted, so we just sit back and watch the animals play.

[KarmaContestant]

Ultimately, there is and always has been an awful amount of homophobia in the gay community. It's saddening, to say the least - and usually unrecognizeable as such by the very people perpetuating it. I was very guilty of this in my younger days - I was horrrified at being perceived as being like that at drag shows or gay pride parades. It took being called out on it by straight friends to make me realize that there was some truth in it before I could put an end to what was, essentially, self loathing.

We've come a long way, but we have a long way to go.

[Jondalar]

Ultimately, there is and always has been an awful amount of homophobia in the gay community. It's saddening, to say the least - and usually unrecognizeable as such by the very people perpetuating it. I was very guilty of this in my younger days - I was horrrified at being perceived as being like that at drag shows or gay pride parades. It took being called out on it by straight friends to make me realize that there was some truth in it before I could put an end to what was, essentially, self loathing.

We've come a long way, but we have a long way to go.

I stay out of the gay community. The whole thing reminds me of vogueing. Everyone is trying to strike a pose and be something they are not. There are guys who try act straight and who call other gays fags. There are drag queens who have a snobbery all their own. The gay scene is bad news. And it seems to be ruled by the immature, glam Adam Lambart crowd or the bear crowd who cannot accept who they are. I

When I came out, I expected all my problems to be solved, but to be honest all the cliques inside the gay community sickened me. I started to drink majorily. Now I just don't care. I stay away from any person that try to fit in. They are always trouble. And I hate crowds and the way people act in crowds.

I did lose respect for the gay community when they would not close down the bath houses during the aids epidemic. That was ridiculous. People were dying and yet, it seemed to me they fought to spread the disease. I also cannot stand people who out people. Each person should have the right to come out on their own.

[bluefox4000]

I found there's just as much hate in the gay community as any. Many do not accept bi's. ha.....I found that out first hand. tis a sad truth.

Mick