Stevie's Collaberation with Dave ?

[Fleetwoodmark]

Is anyone a little apprehensive about the fact that 7 songs of the 13 on the new album are co writes ?

Having listened to the previews of Dave's "Blackbird Diaries" I think his ability to write decent lyrics are somewhat limited, are very simplistic and don't have very much meaning beyond what seems to be a catchy melody. Unless of course the lyrics are purely Stevie's and Dave has just helped with the music.

I guess my fear is by doing this it might "dilute" what real Stevie songs are. I've not been a fan of Dave's work in the past so I look forward to this album with some trepidation. Lindsey knew exactly where to go with Stevie's songs in the past, I'm not too sure it will be the same case with Dave at the helm.

Anyone share my view ?

[cristochango]

I'm actually going to counter your view. Stevie seems really excited about the fact that she co-wrote so many songs with Dave, going as far to even use the Beatles analogy she likes to use.

Personally, I feel as though that it really comes down to the fact that we haven't gotten a new Stevie album in 10 years. She says that she's continually writing- yet none of these have ever come together for an actual album.

IF Dave is somehow able to get Stevie to co-write with him and to get her to release an album? More power to him. I applaud Dave for how much publicity he has gotten Stevie with everything that he has done (twitter, for instance)

I also think that none of us really have any idea to what extent Dave is helping Stevie write these songs.. I mean, didn't Stevie get credit as a co-writer for adding the word "Emmiline" to Seven Wonders? :shrug: He may only be helping her with a couple of words and everything.

Also, to pull from Destiny Rules. Stevie likes her music the way she writes it. (Eg, "You wouldn't say THAT to Bob Dylan") What we are going to get is going to be fully supported by Stevie, and it is most definitely going to be good.

To wrap all of this up... I think it's going to be great, and I am not worried about the co-writing at all :) haha

[Artemis]

Personally, I think Dave is writing the music, or at least the more complex parts of it, whilst Stevie is writing the lyrics. Unless people don't get co-writing credits if they do the music? I don't know :laugh:

[cristochango]

Personally, I think Dave is writing the music, or at least the more complex parts of it, whilst Stevie is writing the lyrics. Unless people don't get co-writing credits if they do the music? I don't know :laugh:

I'm with you with this... Because Sandy Stewart got a lot of co-writes during Wild Heart, right?

[Artemis]

Yar, Sandy helped Stevie out on;

If Anyone Falls
Nightbird
Nothing Ever Changes

I wonder why the two of them never collaborate these days, a lot of Stevie's good songs have had help from Sandy Stewart :laugh:

[BombaySapphire3]

Stevie has mentioned in interviews that Dave had her use entire poems that she presented to him as opposed to editing them down for song form so I'm presuming he has written the music to them .She did make the remark about her giving him long poems and him giving her various chord changes neither of which the other was good at on their own.

[cristochango]

Yar, Sandy helped Stevie out on;

If Anyone Falls
Nightbird
Nothing Ever Changes

I wonder why the two of them never collaborate these days, a lot of Stevie's good songs have had help from Sandy Stewart :laugh:

I think I saw on the Track listing page that there were a few? I may be wrong?

[Jondalar]

Is anyone a little apprehensive about the fact that 7 songs of the 13 on the new album are co writes ?

Having listened to the previews of Dave's "Blackbird Diaries" I think his ability to write decent lyrics are somewhat limited, are very simplistic and don't have very much meaning beyond what seems to be a catchy melody. Unless of course the lyrics are purely Stevie's and Dave has just helped with the music.

I guess my fear is by doing this it might "dilute" what real Stevie songs are. I've not been a fan of Dave's work in the past so I look forward to this album with some trepidation. Lindsey knew exactly where to go with Stevie's songs in the past, I'm not too sure it will be the same case with Dave at the helm.

Anyone share my view ?

I would be more apprenshensive if Stevie wrote all the songs herself.

[GypsySorcerer]

I think Dave's contributions will be largely musical, which is a good thing. She has said herself that she only knows "four chords," so she was excited with what he brought to musically.

[Fleetwoodmark]

I think Dave's contributions will be largely musical, which is a good thing. She has said herself that she only knows "four chords," so she was excited with what he brought to musically.

Hmm,

Four chords hasn't been a limit to Stevie before though - Sara, Gypsy, Dreams etc.

Aww well nobody seems to share my apprehension, we'll just have to wait and see.

[WildHearted]

I think Dave's contributions will be largely musical, which is a good thing. She has said herself that she only knows "four chords," so she was excited with what he brought to musically.

Stevie's 'I only know four chords' statement kind of threw me for a loop. I just don't even see it being remotely possible... Landslide, which she claims to have written on an acoustic guitar, uses more than four chords. Also, unless she writes ALL of her songs in the same key and then later they get changed around... that's just.. no, it just doesn't even make sense. I know she's prone to exaggerating but that comment she made confused me to no end. CERTAINLY she knows how to play more than four on the piano... if you know how to play one chord, right there you can play at least 20 different others just by keeping your hand in that position and moving it around the keyboard.

[olive]

maybe he's helping her write more complex themes other than Lindsey, and Mick ,

[Fleetwoodmark]

Stevie's 'I only know four chords' statement kind of threw me for a loop. I just don't even see it being remotely possible... Landslide, which she claims to have written on an acoustic guitar, uses more than four chords. Also, unless she writes ALL of her songs in the same key and then later they get changed around... that's just.. no, it just doesn't even make sense. I know she's prone to exaggerating but that comment she made confused me to no end. CERTAINLY she knows how to play more than four on the piano... if you know how to play one chord, right there you can play at least 20 different others just by keeping your hand in that position and moving it around the keyboard.

Yeah, Thats just typical Stevie exaggeration - I wouldn't get too hung up on it. I think it's just to emphasise the rudimentary style in which she can play it. It also serves for an excuse never to play it live.

[seekerj]

Is anyone a little apprehensive about the fact that 7 songs of the 13 on the new album are co writes ?

Having listened to the previews of Dave's "Blackbird Diaries" I think his ability to write decent lyrics are somewhat limited, are very simplistic and don't have very much meaning beyond what seems to be a catchy melody. Unless of course the lyrics are purely Stevie's and Dave has just helped with the music.

I guess my fear is by doing this it might "dilute" what real Stevie songs are. I've not been a fan of Dave's work in the past so I look forward to this album with some trepidation. Lindsey knew exactly where to go with Stevie's songs in the past, I'm not too sure it will be the same case with Dave at the helm.

Anyone share my view ?


Yes, I absolutely share your view. Well stated. You have perfectly put into words what I've been thinking. Thank you.

[seekerj]

I would be more apprenshensive if Stevie wrote all the songs herself.

I would be actually looking forward to the album if this were the case. If I wanted to listen to Dave Stewart's music, I would buy his records. Just like if I wanted to hear Bob Seger songs done live, I would buy a ticket to Bob Seger's show, not Stevie's.

[WildHearted]

I would be actually looking forward to the album if this were the case. If I wanted to listen to Dave Stewart, I would buy his records. Just like if I wanted to hear Bob Seger songs done live, I would buy a ticket to Bob Seger's show, not Stevie's.

Well, I'm still looking forward to this album.

However, I agree with you pretty much. IMO, Stevie's songs are best when they are left really true to their original form, with only the necessary production and nothing extra or superfluous.... Basically I want to hear a song that is Stevie's. I don't want to hear a song that started out as Stevie's but now sounds like it could be anyone's song...

[Jondalar]

Well, I'm still looking forward to this album.

However, I agree with you pretty much. IMO, Stevie's songs are best when they are left really true to their original form, with only the necessary production and nothing extra or superfluous.... Basically I want to hear a song that is Stevie's. I don't want to hear a song that started out as Stevie's but now sounds like it could be anyone's song...

I don't agree with that at all. I heard the demos of Gypsy and Gold Dust Woman. Those songs were very big collaborations. I don't care if she got sole songwriting credit or not. However, I don't mind it. She can write the words all she wants, as long as I get what I'm looking for and she has been the catalyst for some major songs. Shania Twain's career was based upon colloborations and so was Bjorks. Stevie is her own thing. Her failures are fascinating. However, when everything works there is no one better. I think she is a really good song crafter, very different than anyone else. But not being able to play instruements has hurt her. I also think she got spoiled. She gave Lindsey material and watched him turn her lesser works into big, significant songs. She tried hard in the early days to really craft songs, but after awhile, what is the point when you have someone like him around. She became too dependent on producers. It was their job to make the songs great, not hers.

[seekerj]

I don't agree with that at all. I heard the demos of Gypsy and Gold Dust Woman. Those songs were very big collaborations. I don't care if she got sole songwriting credit or not. However, I don't mind it. She can write the words all she wants, as long as I get what I'm looking for and she has been the catalyst for some major songs. Shania Twain's career was based upon colloborations and so was Bjorks. Stevie is her own thing. Her failures are fascinating. However, when everything works there is no one better. I think she is a really good song crafter, very different than anyone else. But not being able to play instruements has hurt her. I also think she got spoiled. She gave Lindsey material and watched him turn her lesser works into big, significant songs. She tried hard in the early days to really craft songs, but after awhile, what is the point when you have someone like him around. She became too dependent on producers. It was their job to make the songs great, not hers.

I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about production, but the actual music itself.

It's not the same thing for those songs mentioned. Stevie came up with the chords, or the musical foundation, for those songs. Not so for the new songs; she started singing her words along to the music Dave was playing. That's different. That's the same as writing along to someone's track. The only thing different is that you're looking at a person who is playing an instrument instead of at a tape machine.

[Jondalar]

I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about production, but the actual music itself.

It's not the same thing for those songs mentioned. Stevie came up with the chords, or the musical foundation, for those songs. Not so for the new songs; she started singing her words along to the music Dave was playing. That's different. That's the same as writing along to someone's track. The only thing different is that you're looking at a person who is playing an instrument instead of at a tape machine.

Well, that's not quite true. They wrote and worked out the songs together. Whose to say it was all his melody. They bounced tunes off each other. What your talking about is what she did with Mike Campbell or Sandy Stewart. The tune has to change with lyrics. It's all collaborative. Dave would of gotten different results from another artist.

[jellyman10]

What your talking about is what she did with Mike Campbell or Sandy Stewart. The tune has to change with lyrics. It's all collaborative. Dave would of gotten different results from another artist.

I agree with this, and I think it's obvious from SN's repeated statements that she expressly has not ever written this way before, i.e. in the same room with a musical partner who is responding to what she's doing, and vice versa. That's definitely a different process from inventing a melody that overlays a pre-existing chord structure.

I'm not sure what I think about Dave Stewart's likely input on this score. I said already that I'm not crazy about the suspended bits in 'Secret Love', and I've noticed that 'Stevie Baby' uses them too -- a lot -- so that might be something that doesn't jive with me over the whole album. Have to wait and see, on that one ...

As for LB's role in SN's songwriting history, I think the evidence is overwhelming that his influence and input varied quite a bit at different times. The really interesting question is how much of what he did was not simply what any producer does? A bit of arrangement, a suggestion about structure, maybe a key change, a little sweetening here and there. None of these things are songwriting, or even co-writing. But they are what a producer does.

Last thought: imagine for a second that we had as many Christine demos as we have Stevie demos, and were able to compare what LB did to what each of them brought in at the start? To me, that would be fascinating!

Loz

[GoldDustOrphan]

I think she is a really good song crafter, very different than anyone else. But not being able to play instruements has hurt her.

The first part, I agree with. The second part isn't true. Stevie plays piano and guitar, just not as well as the people she chooses to work with. I was very happy that she played piano on Storytellers.