Why was Stevie the breakout star?

[Artemis]

I saw a comment on youtube which made me think; why did Stevie Nicks have the most solo success out of all the Fleetwood Mac members?

The youtube comment was "If Lindsey's production was so brilliant, and a key reason why Fleetwood Mac was so popular, why wasn't his solo work the most successful?"

Which really struck me, I don't know why, but it just made me think... Why Stevie? Lindsey was the better musician, Christine the better singer, yet, Stevie was the most successful. She's the one who, even today, sparks the most interest from the media; and often gets the most recognition. I see Stevie refered to as the Queen of Rock and Roll, while no one else from Fleetwood Mac gets such an individual platitude. As a group, they might get called "Legendary" or some such, but, as solo artists, it's Stevie who gets all the adulation.

This isn't a Stevie vs Lindsey vs Christine thread or anything, I'm just rather curious as to why it was Stevie who was, and still is, the most popular, why she alone managed to sell multiple platinum records both within the confines of the group and as a solo star.

[CADreaming]

Sex appeal. Out of the three she was the one who was most marketable. Stevie was the weak link, if you will and she was courted as such. The reason I say weak link - Lindsey was not into helping her craft her songs so much by the late '70s and since she was the one in front strutting it, I think Christine & Lindsey both sorta rolled their eyes at her a bit. It wasn't unnoticed by people who could make money off her. When she was approached, she went for it. She was fortunate enough to be surrounded by some good, solid people in the early stages. In Jimmy Iovine, she had a great producer and she had great backing musicians and they created a perfect sound for her. It paid off, giving her chart success. MTV came along during this time too and I think her videos were in heavy rotation. Stevie was able to keep her face and name out there by doing both gigs. Smart, smart move.

Christine was never interested in being a solo artist enough to really make a go of it, but I think she could have.

Lindsey was not interested in making mainstream music enough to have made his solo career more successful. But, he totally could have.

In the end, I think it is more fun to be in a band and easier. A lot of the pressure is off and you can lean on the strength of others more. But, Stevie likes to be on the road so she gets to go out as much as she wants having when the Mac isn't touring. She's got a pretty sweet deal really.

[JohnL]

Well I dont agree with part of your comment above. I believe that Stevie is the best singer in Fleetwood Mac. She may not have that smooth honey voice but her voice has always been the most interesting and unique. To me, that is what make someone stand out in the crowd. That along with her being smokin hot. lol

[HejiraNYC]

Well, as someone who witnessed Stevie's stardom in "real time," I think that she, as well as any of the other notably successful performers of the past, was basically in the right place at the right time with the right product. What Stevie managed to do was to completely distinguish herself from her rocking female peers. She wasn't a chick trying to act like a dude. She wasn't trying to paint herself in neon colors and call herself "new wave." She was a woman who wanted to rock hard, but only on her own terms- as an uber-feminine goddess who could bat her eyelashes at you whilst kicking you to the curb with one of her platform boots. She's always played up this kind of duality- a mash-up of genres and stereotypes. She was the ditzy blonde who was a terrific songwriter with an intense artistic side. She introduced chiffon, lace and shawls to rock and roll. She was Victorian hippie chic. She looked like a porcelain angel but had this throbbing, smokey, expressive voice, the likes of which nobody had heard before. In the early 80s she became the "it" girl- the antidote to disco divas, sappy ballad singers and schmaltz. She was an original; there has been nobody before or since who could write songs or sing like Stephanie Lynn Nicks.

By contrast, I don't think Lindsey had as much to offer as a solo artist. A male guitarist and songwriter singing pop songs. Hmm... okay. His early singles like "Trouble" and "Holiday Road" were pleasant and catchy enough, but there was nothing else about him that was particularly engaging from an artistic standpoint. He has never been a great lyric writer. He has never come across as being particularly open or likeable as a person. There was nothing about him that distinguished him from the crowd other than the fact that he was that dude who sings in Fleetwood Mac. This is a man who is at his best when he works with others who can broaden his artistic vision (much like Stevie), but as a solo artist he is insular and doesn't seem to be aware of his own limitations. There is no doubt in my mind that with the right set of songs and the right collaborators, Lindsey could have been a much bigger solo artist.

Christine is... Christine. She was very, very good at what she did- writing songs and playing keyboards. But as a vocalist she tends to disappear among the throngs of belters and octave-leaping wailers. She has just about the most beautiful tone of any singer I've ever heard, but she doesn't seem to be able to do very much with it, which is perfectly fine with me. But to the world at large her music comes across as "dull." And to be honest her public persona is dull too. She is intensely guarded about her personal life and she doesn't come across as being particularly warm and inviting, especially on stage. If anything, she has the kind of dry British humor that some will get and others will find off-putting or aloof. She's never been particularly engaging as a live performer and she has never been a show(wo)man. She has never shown a hunger for stardom and her lack of commercial success as a solo artist is the consequence.

[mitzo]

Stevie was different, unique, and had a voice and style that had never been seen before - the songs were odd, opaque, with hooks and lyrics and structures that were unlike anything we had encountered, but were engaging. The voice was raw, untrained, conforming to no standards of female vocal stylings, and yet capable of expressing a lot with very little. She conveyed a very different type of femininity, a kind of lost and haunted yet in-your-face combination of weakness and strength, frailty and power, using a broken voice to sing songs full of cryptic and abstract images that somehow managed to make sense at a subconscious level. For a while, she really did it her way, went against the grain, and managed to change the public perception of how a female pop artist can possess allure and mystique. All that started to sag later on, but at the beginning, she was something totally fresh. This is my personal take on why I became fascinated with her from the start, although she has really tested my faith with a lot of her solo work, and her sparse output over time, for sure.

[KarmaContestant]

As Ru Paul would say, Stevie used her...

Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve & Talent

...to ensure she was the breakout star.

[bluefox4000]

In those days. She was just so different, and engaging.....Totally unique:nod:

Mick

[AnthonyMI]

nicer boobs than Christine? She was the girl every guy dreamed of and every girl wanted to be?

[Pyewacket]

Her voice is not great technically speaking, but it is incredibly unique and expressive and cut through the music rather than floating on top of it. No one else sounds like her. Combine that with her "getup" (the shawls, the mystery, the witchiness, the sexiness) and more than a modicum of talent in songwriting, and she was already set to be the standout in 1975.

Even back in the day when I was 10 and Fleetwood Mac was on the radio, it was "Dreams" that I liked the best. I love the other songs and Christine and Lindsey's solo output, but neither ever gave me the feeling of urgency that I needed to a) buy it right now or b) discover more about them.


As Tori Amos once sang, "is her power all in her club sandwich?" Yes. Stevie had the meat, the cheese, the lettuce, the whole stack.

[Christopher]

Her voice is not great technically speaking, but it is incredibly unique and expressive and cut through the music rather than floating on top of it. No one else sounds like her. Combine that with her "getup" (the shawls, the mystery, the witchiness, the sexiness) and more than a modicum of talent in songwriting, and she was already set to be the standout in 1975.

Even back in the day when I was 10 and Fleetwood Mac was on the radio, it was "Dreams" that I liked the best. I love the other songs and Christine and Lindsey's solo output, but neither ever gave me the feeling of urgency that I needed to a) buy it right now or b) discover more about them.


As Tori Amos once sang, "is her power all in her club sandwich?" Yes. Stevie had the meat, the cheese, the lettuce, the whole stack.

Pretty much sums it up succinctly.:thumbsup:

[sorcerer999]

I still like to think of it in terms of "the meek shall inherit the Earth"...

Stevie waited tables, cleaned houses, as well as a variety of odd jobs supporting Lindsey's ass for YEARS!

I like to think of it as karma paying off for her hard work.

This, of course, is just my opinion. There are thousands of more logical reasons why she was the breakout star, I'm sure.

[Nikolaj]

I saw a comment on youtube which made me think; why did Stevie Nicks have the most solo success out of all the Fleetwood Mac members?

The youtube comment was "If Lindsey's production was so brilliant, and a key reason why Fleetwood Mac was so popular, why wasn't his solo work the most successful?"

Which really struck me, I don't know why, but it just made me think... Why Stevie? Lindsey was the better musician, Christine the better singer, yet, Stevie was the most successful. She's the one who, even today, sparks the most interest from the media; and often gets the most recognition. I see Stevie refered to as the Queen of Rock and Roll, while no one else from Fleetwood Mac gets such an individual platitude. As a group, they might get called "Legendary" or some such, but, as solo artists, it's Stevie who gets all the adulation.

This isn't a Stevie vs Lindsey vs Christine thread or anything, I'm just rather curious as to why it was Stevie who was, and still is, the most popular, why she alone managed to sell multiple platinum records both within the confines of the group and as a solo star.

Interesting question, Artemis. First, while you may be correct in your assessment, I disagree- I believe that SN is a superior singer to Christine, and actually, by far. I think many people may agree with you on that point, however- so, to each their own. I don't know that there's a correct answer to that particular question, really.
I think SN's being the breakthrough 'star of Fleetwood Mac' comes down to the much-used and sometimes maligned phrase 'star quality'. She just had it. Has it. While there are many pretty and/or beautiful women singers, it's less common to encounter a charismatic stage presence, and SN had charisma to burn. It's generally (maybe?) thought of as a male trait, charisma, but SN had it, every bit as much in her own way, as did Jim Morrison. - From this little chick- which made it all the more astounding.
Like Motown producer Suzanne DePasse once said of somebody else, regarding star quality, it is hard to define, you can't bottle it, but you know it when you see it and know when someone has it, and they have it even on their worst night.
The ability of Stevie Nicks to command attention amidst the great musicians in Fleetwood Mac with her presence alone was a big factor- add in her unique voice, sexy vibe, and at the time, a totally original stage persona rock audiences loved- and there is part of the answer to your question. Also, 'Rhiannon' as a centerpiece of Fleetwood Mac's 70's concerts was pretty darned smart of SN, along with all else that was great about the song, it was unique in creating a character: While not an actress, Stevie created a character with Rhiannon and was able to disappear completely into 'her' and the two became one, and few female singers at that point had taken that approach to being a rock singer. Rhiannon, I think, made Stevie a star, at first. Janis Joplin never had a character other than herself in her songs, she was Janis singing 'Piece of My Heart' or 'Ball and Chain'- Stevie Nicks morphed into 'Rhiannon' and created a persona in that one song that was different than her Stevie Nicks persona singing along to 'Over My Head' or 'You Make Loving Fun' or 'Station Man'-- so audiences felt like they were getting both Stevie Nicks in her ensemble work singing backup, and then this space-goddess-chick, an alter-ego who would come to life during 'Rhiannon' and blow everyone away.
She just had it.

[Artemis]

I believe that SN is a superior singer to Christine, and actually, by far.

I'd say Stevie's got the more interesting and unique voice out of her and Christine, although Christine might be a technically "better" singer if that makes sense? I just wrote that in my intro post because I was trying to appear as unbiased as possible :laugh:

As it's 5am, I won't elaborate now, but, I'll post my thoughts on this tomorrow, I've been thinking about it a lot since I made the thread :laugh: (how sad is that?)

[Nikolaj]

^Context, Artemis, Context! :)

Your one sentence you partially quoted from me was the least significant to me in what I put a lot of thought into! It kind of figures and serves me right! You think these words just happen? :)
I have now bolded what was actually the point of me answering you, which was not to debate whether SN or CM was the 'better' singer! That is in the ear of the beholder, and like I wrote, you may be correct!

While contemplating what you wrote, I tried to answer your question, and actually, think I nailed it. 'Charisma' is the answer, to narrow it down to one word. 'Creating a character' in 'Rhiannon' separate from what she did when singing with the rest of the band expounds somewhat on that.
It happens to me all the time, so, of course, quote whatever you like- and thanks for the thread! Bolded below is what I choose to point out is the reason why I wanted to respond to your query.

Interesting question, Artemis. First, while you may be correct in your assessment, I disagree- I believe that SN is a superior singer to Christine, and actually, by far. I think many people may agree with you on that point, however- so, to each their own. I don't know that there's a correct answer to that particular question, really.
While there are many pretty and/or beautiful women singers, it's less common to encounter a powerhouse charismatic stage presence, and SN had charisma to burn. It's generally thought of as a male trait, charisma, but SN had it, every bit as much in her own way, as did Jim Morrison. - From this little chick- which made it all the more astounding.
The ability of Stevie Nicks to command attention amidst the great musicians in Fleetwood Mac with her presence alone was a big factor- add in her unique voice, sexy vibe, and at the time, a totally original stage persona rock audiences just loved- and there is part of the answer to your question. Also, 'Rhiannon' as a centerpiece of Fleetwood Mac's 70's concerts was pretty darned smart of SN, along with all else that was great about the song, it was unique in creating a character: While not an actress, Stevie created a character with Rhiannon and was able to disappear completely into 'her' and the two became one, and few female singers at that point had taken that approach to being a rock singer. Rhiannon, I think, made Stevie a star, at first. Stevie Nicks morphed into 'Rhiannon' and created a persona in that one song that was different than her Stevie Nicks persona singing along to 'Over My Head' or 'You Make Loving Fun' or 'Station Man'-- so audiences felt like they were getting both Stevie Nicks in her ensemble work with the band with her singing backup, and then this space-goddess-chick, an alter-ego would come to life during 'Rhiannon' and blow everyone away.
She just had it.

[Brad]

Stevie waited tables, cleaned houses, as well as a variety of odd jobs supporting Lindsey's ass for YEARS!

Stevie loves bringing this up to play the martyr. Give me a break. Neither of their families was by any means hurting for money, so I seriously doubt she was "supporting" anyone. At best, she probably waited tables a few days a week to supplement their monthly allowances from mom and dad for their pot habit.

I know that's not exactly the topic at hand, but I've always found this story of hers to be very annoying and worthy of an eye roll. :rolleyes:

[michelej1]

Stevie loves bringing this up to play the martyr. Give me a break. Neither of their families was by any means hurting for money, so I seriously doubt she was "supporting" anyone. At best, she probably waited tables a few days a week to supplement their monthly allowances from mom and dad for their pot habit.

I know that's not exactly the topic at hand, but I've always found this story of hers to be very annoying and worthy of an eye roll. :rolleyes:

True, especially since she left (the whole Destiny trip) and Richard and Lindsey were still keeping up rent payments on the apartment and she admits that she had to "eat crow" and ask him to come back. Lindsey couldn't have been that dependent on Stevie for income, if he and his friend were able to keep the apartment and eat without her being there and she was the one who had to ask them to take her back in.

Michele

[Nikolaj]

^^Maybe, Brad! But pot was very, very cheap in the early 70s, from what I have been told, and by associations alone, marijuana would have been all around them. I doubt they had to buy much pot on their own to have it around. I think SN's jobs paid for some stage frocks (certainly, her BN blouse she wound up not needing!) and maybe just for groceries, rent and some studio time, be it in a rehearsal facility or recording.
Like you wrote, though, SN and LB's parents didn't exactly have Skid Row as their residences, but perhaps like many 'old folks' of that generation, didn't really throw money at S&L left and right,to 'teach them the value of a dollar' or what have you.
SN probably did need to work the odd jobs. Plus, it may have been a relief for her to get away from an apartment full of - as Reese Witherspoon as June Carter Cash said on a tour bus: 'all these stinkin' myen!'

[David]

This isn't a Stevie vs Lindsey vs Christine thread or anything, I'm just rather curious as to why it was Stevie who was, and still is, the most popular, why she alone managed to sell multiple platinum records both within the confines of the group and as a solo star.Her music speaks to millions of people. I personally don't know why, but it does.

What makes some kids in high school the most popular kids? Why do some people at your job get promoted & treated so well by the boss? Some people have charm. Some people are magnetic. Some people attract other people. Some people are liked by everybody. Maybe they're sexy. Maybe they're funny. Maybe they're sweet. Maybe they're smart.

Stevie Nicks is -- or was -- a fox. When you have a fox in rock & roll, you're gonna have a popular person. When your fox sings & dances & wears clothes well & has a sexy, alluring whiskey speaking voice & has big, brown eyes & a pouty mouth, your fox is gonna be the biggest star on the stage.

When your fox writes weirdly pretty songs & surrounds herself with romantic trappings & talks about how writing her poetry is the most important thing to her, your fox is gonna be the eternal object of cult adoration.

[henryscutter]

because she is AWESOME of course :thumbsup:....

Her looks didnt hurt, but I think her writing style and the way she performed connected with people in a way that the others didnt. Christine is very talented but to most people she was soft pleasant love songs and nice piano not much else (although I personally could listen to her talk for hours with her british sense of humor) Lindsey on the other hand is a very exciting performer but his solo stuff seemed to turn a lot of people off. I remember my older sister had friends who really liked the song Trouble but when they got the album they didnt like anything else. In hindsight, I think with an outside producer to help him Lindsey could have had a solo career as successful as Stevie. The control freak in him would not allow that though. We should ask Mick, he said in his book he knew from the beginning she would be a megastar.

[Jondalar]

She was different. She didn't try to be one of the boys. She was the first feminen but strong female rock star. She created a character that was totally different. Lets face it, nothing about Stevie Nicks should work. She doesn't dress, sing or write songs like anyone. That is the magic of Stevie Nicks. If you think about, Kiss created a character, David Bowie had Ziggy Stardust. She was the only woman and she had the songs to back it up. Joni Mitchell seemed like she wanted no part of stardom. Janice Joplin almost seemed like a male and who would want her life. Tina was getting the crap knocked out of her. Carly and Carole King seemed uncomfortable with their stardom. Stevie owned hers.

[StandbackStevie]

Stevie to me had the whole artist package really she just shines when you see her your focused on her and out of all the people of FM She stands out like the north star really. She has a presence that few people have that your glued to her, her beauty, music, vocal sound,song writing everything about her just radiates. I have been hooked on Stevie and FM since I was 9yrs old back in 1979 and bein seeing her live in concert since 1986 when I was 16yrs old now 4o yrs old and still going to her shows and was one of the lucky to have met her at the barnes and noble signing of her soundstage cd/dvd in NYC 2yrs ago was a special moment in my life to say I have met my rock n roll legend my favorite singer songwriter she is just so special person to me among everyone here on this board. Stevie was destined to be a singer/songwriter it is with in her to be a rock star with our with out being in FM she is a destined person.

[Christopher]

Stevie loves bringing this up to play the martyr. Give me a break. Neither of their families was by any means hurting for money, so I seriously doubt she was "supporting" anyone. At best, she probably waited tables a few days a week to supplement their monthly allowances from mom and dad for their pot habit.

I know that's not exactly the topic at hand, but I've always found this story of hers to be very annoying and worthy of an eye roll. :rolleyes:

IDK, I get the sense that Jess & Barbara, esp. Barbara, handed Stevie a heavy dose of tough love. Yes, she may have gotten some money from them here and there when Stevie came up short, but by no means do I believe that it was a steady stream. Stevie has said over the years, her family was not there to support her unless she was in college working towards a degree. When she dropped out, so did the steady support. I strongly suspect Lindsey was by far the more spoiled of the two.:cool:

[CADreaming]

Like you wrote, though, SN and LB's parents didn't exactly have Skid Row as their residences, but perhaps like many 'old folks' of that generation, didn't really throw money at S&L left and right,to 'teach them the value of a dollar' or what have you.
SN probably did need to work the odd jobs.

It wouldn't surprise me if she was lying to her Dad about going to college and using the tuition money to support them. :laugh:

[michelej1]

I remember my older sister had friends who really liked the song Trouble but when they got the album they didnt like anything else. In hindsight, I think with an outside producer to help him Lindsey could have had a solo career as successful as Stevie. The control freak in him would not allow that though.

I think I had the same reaction to not only Law and Order, but Tusk too, but in hindsight I wouldn't change them. I would just change me -- and I did change.

Michele

[michelej1]

It wouldn't surprise me if she was lying to her Dad about going to college and using the tuition money to support them. :laugh:

Been there. Done that. My poor wonderful, dad. Hope he hasn't found out in heaven everything I hid from him in life!:lol: I did attend college. I just didn't apply the money he gave me each month to school, as he intended!

Michele

[michelej1]

IDK, I get the sense that Jess & Barbara, esp. Barbara, handed Stevie a heavy dose of tough love.

Yes, they tried. But if you call home crying in an emergency, you probably get bailed out -- as in the plane ticket home from Aspen. I'm sure Barbara was a tougher sell than Jess. They didn't have cell phones then that allow you to reach exactly the person you want, so I could just see Stevie trying to call home at times when she knew her dad would pick up the phone and not her mom!

Michele

[Jondalar]

In almost honesty, Stevie worked the hardest to be the star and she sorta deserves her success. She has made really good connection. The fact that she is connecting Glee and mentioning Twilight shows how smart she is.

[kimmersxa]

Her music speaks to millions of people. I personally don't know why, but it does.

What makes some kids in high school the most popular kids? Why do some people at your job get promoted & treated so well by the boss? Some people have charm. Some people are magnetic. Some people attract other people. Some people are liked by everybody. Maybe they're sexy. Maybe they're funny. Maybe they're sweet. Maybe they're smart.

Stevie Nicks is -- or was -- a fox. When you have a fox in rock & roll, you're gonna have a popular person. When your fox sings & dances & wears clothes well & has a sexy, alluring whiskey speaking voice & has big, brown eyes & a pouty mouth, your fox is gonna be the biggest star on the stage.

When your fox writes weirdly pretty songs & surrounds herself with romantic trappings & talks about how writing her poetry is the most important thing to her, your fox is gonna be the eternal object of cult adoration.


this is such an awesome sum up of stevie's foxiness! lol.

[bombaysaffires]

What makes some kids in high school the most popular kids? Why do some people at your job get promoted & treated so well by the boss? Some people have charm. Some people are magnetic. Some people attract other people. Some people are liked by everybody. Maybe they're sexy. Maybe they're funny. Maybe they're sweet. Maybe they're smart.

Stevie Nicks is -- or was -- a fox. When you have a fox in rock & roll, you're gonna have a popular person. When your fox sings & dances & wears clothes well & has a sexy, alluring whiskey speaking voice & has big, brown eyes & a pouty mouth, your fox is gonna be the biggest star on the stage.


Agree. Stevie has a certain "aura" that you either have or you don't. It draws people to you; they feel like something interesting always happens around this person and they want to be part of it.

Also, Stevie always seemed the most accessible. She was friendly, gregarious in the press, she totally comes across as someone you want to sit and have a beer, or a cuppa, with, and you know you'd have a great time yapping away and laughing and all that. Lindsey... not so much. Much more intense, serious, at times brooding.. not to say he doesn't have a lighter side but really, it doesn't come across in interviews and his public utterances and such. It also translates in their music. Stevie's songs may be messy and technically less than perfect a lot of the time, but what they have is HEART, they really speak to people, they resonate with what is happening in your own life. Lindsey focuses sooo much on technical perfection and takes a much more intellectual approach to his music that sometimes (esp a lot of the solo stuff) can come off as cold. Who can relate to lyrics like "reading the paper/read a review/said I was a visionary/but nobody knew?" versus something like "I still look up/when you walk in the room" or "don't say that she's pretty/and did you say that she loved you/baby I don't want to know"? Stevie just always, TO ME anyway, spoke to more universal experiences, things that everyone can relate to.

Christine, whom I love and I think wrote songs that were BOTH technically excellent AND universal in their themes, was just far more reserved personally and you didn't always feel like you knew her as well.

I think it's interesting that the Lindsey solo album people always say they love is Out of the Cradle, and he had Richard Dashut work on that with him...and his most successful songs are with FM... maybe he needs that outside influence on his music.

I don't know, but if I had to vote who to hang out with while they were making an album, I'd vote for Stevie. Way more fun.

[MrStevie]

Stevie is one hot Mama. It's a simple as that. ;)

Oh, and she wanted it. Stevie's the only one who really wanted stardom. The others, except maybe Mick, didn't crave it like an addiction the way she did.

[WildHearted]

I think Lindsey wanted it, in a way. Recognition, if nothing else.

Like others have said, the simple answer is charm. And that encompass a whole menagerie of qualities.

[Jondalar]

I saw a comment on youtube which made me think; why did Stevie Nicks have the most solo success out of all the Fleetwood Mac members?

The youtube comment was "If Lindsey's production was so brilliant, and a key reason why Fleetwood Mac was so popular, why wasn't his solo work the most successful?"

Which really struck me, I don't know why, but it just made me think... Why Stevie? Lindsey was the better musician, Christine the better singer, yet, Stevie was the most successful. She's the one who, even today, sparks the most interest from the media; and often gets the most recognition. I see Stevie refered to as the Queen of Rock and Roll, while no one else from Fleetwood Mac gets such an individual platitude. As a group, they might get called "Legendary" or some such, but, as solo artists, it's Stevie who gets all the adulation.

This isn't a Stevie vs Lindsey vs Christine thread or anything, I'm just rather curious as to why it was Stevie who was, and still is, the most popular, why she alone managed to sell multiple platinum records both within the confines of the group and as a solo star.

Because Lindsey like to experiment too much. He uses his solo career as a means to get experimentation out of his system. Stevie found a great producer, Jimmy Iovine, who was very commericial when it came to rockers. She wanted to be the breakout star anyway. She tried harder.

[caterwench]

She was different. She didn't try to be one of the boys. She was the first feminen but strong female rock star. She created a character that was totally different. Lets face it, nothing about Stevie Nicks should work. She doesn't dress, sing or write songs like anyone. That is the magic of Stevie Nicks. If you think about, Kiss created a character, David Bowie had Ziggy Stardust. She was the only woman and she had the songs to back it up. Joni Mitchell seemed like she wanted no part of stardom. Janice Joplin almost seemed like a male and who would want her life. Tina was getting the crap knocked out of her. Carly and Carole King seemed uncomfortable with their stardom. Stevie owned hers.

Yes! She owned it. She is a Gemini with Aries rising. A true rock and roll ballerina. Beautiful and feminine, she also has a "very male" side to her. She has a corporate hook from her dad too. She loves what she does, wanted to be successful and accepted too. Her lyrics are quirky and whimsical, not always very feminine, but interesting to read and listen too. Her voice is truly unique, but not trained. She is a great determined performer and has stayed true to herself for close to 40 years. She is a unique lady who makes money by doing what she loves to do.

Add this to the FM unique and talented mix, someone has to come out on top. It's such a mix of talent, but I think that Stevie won the "performer" prize.

[wondergirl9847]

Lindsey focuses sooo much on technical perfection and takes a much more intellectual approach to his music that sometimes (esp a lot of the solo stuff) can come off as cold. Who can relate to lyrics like "reading the paper/read a review/said I was a visionary/but nobody knew?" versus something like "I still look up/when you walk in the room" or "don't say that she's pretty/and did you say that she loved you/baby I don't want to know"? Stevie just always, TO ME anyway, spoke to more universal experiences, things that everyone can relate to.

Oh Stevie's written plenty of stuff nobody but her can relate to. ;)

Stevie has the IT factor that only certain people have. Add in her unique voice, cute, girly personality, rock and roll leanings, songwriting with all sorts of interesting influences, flowy, showy wardrobe, onstage mystery and bammo...you have a STAR! Not a cleaning lady. Hehe.

[jellyman10]

Stevie is one hot Mama. It's a simple as that. ;)

Oh, and she wanted it. Stevie's the only one who really wanted stardom. The others, except maybe Mick, didn't crave it like an addiction the way she did.

Wanted it and had what it took to get it. The rest of them just rode her coat-tails.

[caterwench]

Wanted it and had what it took to get it. The rest of them just rode her coat-tails.

FM was around many years before Stevie. They rode each other.

[mikephxaz]

Most talented, uniqueness, sexuality, writing ability, story teller, sweetness, and did I mention most talented?
I'm not suggesting that all of the FM members didn't share the same qualities. Stevie just excelled at all the qualities.

[GoldDustWoman22]

I think that the main reason why Stevie became the most successful performer was her ability to connect with the audience. When you go to one of her shows you don't feel like you are in a crowd with a bunch of people. It is truly a moving experience that stays with you. Because she was able to make that bond with her fans early enough in her career, people were able to connect and stay with her throughout the years. I also feel that she is extremely personable and empathetic. She may be a bit jaded but she does have an ability to be extremely connected with her audience and others. From everything that I've seen I would totally want to hang out with her. She just seems like someone who you would meet and then instantly become friends with:). She totally has the whole package of being a star but without the arrogance of someone like Lindsey Buckingham. As for Christine...I don't think Chris wanted to be the breakout star. I think she was perfectly happy sitting behind her piano and just singing her heart out. Which is great. But Stevie wanted more....and if there's anything I learned about Stevie through her interviews is that when she wants something...everyone better get out of the way:lol:. So she wanted it, worked hard and got it.

[MrStevie]

I think that the main reason why Stevie became the most successful performer was her ability to connect with the audience. When you go to one of her shows you don't feel like you are in a crowd with a bunch of people. It is truly a moving experience that stays with you. Because she was able to make that bond with her fans early enough in her career, people were able to connect and stay with her throughout the years. I also feel that she is extremely personable and empathetic. She may be a bit jaded but she does have an ability to be extremely connected with her audience and others. From everything that I've seen I would totally want to hang out with her. She just seems like someone who you would meet and then instantly become friends with:). She totally has the whole package of being a star but without the arrogance of someone like Lindsey Buckingham. As for Christine...I don't think Chris wanted to be the breakout star. I think she was perfectly happy sitting behind her piano and just singing her heart out. Which is great. But Stevie wanted more....and if there's anything I learned about Stevie through her interviews is that when she wants something...everyone better get out of the way:lol:. So she wanted it, worked hard and got it.

Amen. :thumbsup:

[BombaySapphire3]

Most talented, uniqueness, sexuality, writing ability, story teller, sweetness, and did I mention most talented?
I'm not suggesting that all of the FM members didn't share the same qualities. Stevie just excelled at all the qualities.
IMHO the two most overall talented members of Fleetwood Mac ever are Peter Green and Lindsey Buckingham.The thing that Stevie was able to do that no one in the band past or present was able to do nearly as well was to carve out a distinct personae that tied in with her first hit .Her music and image have since then complemented each other and that plus her connection with her audience accounts for her larger following to this day.She also had that indefinable asset known as star quality ..something that can't really be learned .bought or faked.

[bombaysaffires]

But Stevie wanted more....and if there's anything I learned about Stevie through her interviews is that when she wants something...everyone better get out of the way:lol:. So she wanted it, worked hard and got it.

Yes. And she in many ways paid a high price to get it. Christine wasn't willing to give up everything else for that kind of fame.

[jellyman10]

Yes. And she in many ways paid a high price to get it. Christine wasn't willing to give up everything else for that kind of fame.

Well, at this point in their lives, as far as we know, both Stevie and Christine are single and childless. So I'm not clear what Chris kept that Stevie was prepared to give up? I think they both passed on motherhood in favour of their career. Chris just retired earlier.

[BombaySapphire3]

Christine had her 'tubes tied" way back in the late 1970s.

[mikephxaz]

IMHO the two most overall talented members of Fleetwood Mac ever are Peter Green and Lindsey Buckingham.The thing that Stevie was able to do that no one in the band past or present was able to do nearly as well was to carve out a distinct personae that tied in with her first hit .Her music and image have since then complemented each other and that plus her connection with her audience accounts for her larger following to this day.She also had that indefinable asset known as star quality ..something that can't really be learned .bought or faked.

Sorry I have to disagree. Lindsey is a genius. There's no question of that but it seems to me that around the time of Tango In The Night he got stuck in his own head and never fully realized his own genius. The best thing Lindsey could have done is to do exactly what Stevie has recently done. Work with a new producer that can show him there are more than answers to a single question. You can see how Stevie started to make strides during TISL to expand her talents and now with IYD she has finally succeeded and got out of her own way. Lindsey now needs to step out from his rut and get out his own way.

[jellyman10]

The best thing Lindsey could have done is to do exactly what Stevie has recently done. Work with a new producer that can show him there are more than answers to a single question. You can see how Stevie started to make strides during TISL to expand her talents and now with IYD she has finally succeeded and got out of her own way. Lindsey now needs to step out from his rut and get out his own way.

Agree 100%.

[michelej1]

Sorry I have to disagree. Lindsey is a genius. There's no question of that but it seems to me that around the time of Tango In The Night he got stuck in his own head and never fully realized his own genius. The best thing Lindsey could have done is to do exactly what Stevie has recently done. Work with a new producer that can show him there are more than answers to a single question. You can see how Stevie started to make strides during TISL to expand her talents and now with IYD she has finally succeeded and got out of her own way. Lindsey now needs to step out from his rut and get out his own way.

I don't have Lindsey's entire new album (hopefully tonight), but I heard most of the songs performed live and I've heard MP3s of two more. Lindsey's not in a rut at all. He has grown by leaps and bounds in just a few short years. Although, he didn't need to grow at all after Gift of Screws, which was itself spectacular and a welcome departure from Under the Skin. He's putting out innovative music and at a heart-stopping pace these days and SWS' tracks are commercially accessible as well, not just experimental. You may not like his music, but there's nothing stagnant about it.

Michele

[BombaySapphire3]

Sorry I have to disagree. Lindsey is a genius. There's no question of that but it seems to me that around the time of Tango In The Night he got stuck in his own head and never fully realized his own genius. The best thing Lindsey could have done is to do exactly what Stevie has recently done. Work with a new producer that can show him there are more than answers to a single question. You can see how Stevie started to make strides during TISL to expand her talents and now with IYD she has finally succeeded and got out of her own way. Lindsey now needs to step out from his rut and get out his own way.

To me Out of the Cradle which came 5 years after Tango was his most accesible music since Rumours ..his songs on Tusk although great are more insular than this album.Even insularity does not signal a decrease in talent IMO.Stevie is dependant on others to bring her raw material to it's fruition Lindsey is not.To me OOTC is the best album relased by Fleetwood Mac or any of it's members in 25 years and yes I do love IYD.Even this could change on Tuesday though.

[mikephxaz]

To me Out of the Cradle which came 5 years after Tango was his most accesible music since Rumours ..his songs on Tusk although great are more insular than this album.Even insularity does not signal a decrease in talent IMO.Stevie is dependant on others to bring her raw material to it's fruition Lindsey is not.To me OOTC is the best album relased by Fleetwood Mac or any of it's members in 25 years and yes I do love IYD.Even this could change on Tuesday though.

Bombay...I completely agree with your thoughts but the question was Why is Stevie a standout...Lindsey is creative, innovative and well deserving of the praise you have given him...and Stevie relies on others for her music...but she has made moves to gain the respect of the industry, shes a mentor to many, she sells solo albumns, she sells out arenas while Lindsey remain insular and he has gotten in his own way.....I love Lindsey but I want to shake him and say...let some one else produce you, do a duet and with a major songstress, have differing back up vocals (other than yourself) and EVERYTIME you get in studio don't over produce yourself....His song Say Goodbye was the most honest and real thing he has done in years... GIVE ME MORE OF THAT!!

[MrStevie]

Bombay...I completely agree with your thoughts but the question was Why is Stevie a standout...Lindsey is creative, innovative and well deserving of the praise you have given him...and Stevie relies on others for her music...but she has made moves to gain the respect of the industry, shes a mentor to many, she sells solo albumns, she sells out arenas while Lindsey remain insular and he has gotten in his own way.....I love Lindsey but I want to shake him and say...let some one else produce you, do a duet and with a major songstress, have differing back up vocals (other than yourself) and EVERYTIME you get in studio don't over produce yourself....His song Say Goodbye was the most honest and real thing he has done in years... GIVE ME MORE OF THAT!!

Being a star and going commercial is not on Lindsey's agenda. Mike, I can understand your desire to see Lindsey become a more popular mainstream act. The majority of mainstream fans love the more accessible music he makes for Fleetwood Mac. As a solo that's just not him. He admits gaining a lot more financially from making that kind of music. It doesn't feed the heart the way his solo work does.

He's insular for a reason and I don't see him changing now. I'm on board all the way. For me he's struck the perfect balance between ear candy and far out when it comes to his solo work. I hope he never changes his path even if it brought him more star recognition and commercial success. I'm satisfied when he does that in Fleetwood Mac. He likes having the big movie in Fleetood Mac but it's not his first love. He prefers the small movie and doing things his own way for those of us who want to go with him on that journey to the left.

Stevie is a star because she wanted it. Lindsey carved out a different niche as a producer and studio wizard and he's every bit as respected in the industry and a mentor to many as she is. He's not a household name by his own desire. "Nobody knows my name. Walking down the street baby, now."

:wavey:

[Eugene]

The answer is quite simple...MTV. The launch of MTV and Stevie's solo career occurred at the same time. Her videos were in HEAVY rotation in the 80's, and her shows on HBO were shown quite often.

Yes, I'm old, and I remember "Stand Back" & "If Anyone Falls" being shown over and over and over and over.

As for Lindsey, the only video that comes to mind is "Go Insane"-art imitating life.

[WildHearted]

Thought of a better word than charm: charisma. In overflowing amounts.

[BombaySapphire3]

One thing mikephxaz and I can probably agree upon is that if Fleetwood Mac makes another album or if the grass turns purple and rivers start flowing backwards and they make another Buckingham/Nicks album they should definitely bring in an outside producer. Recent "Soldier's Angel" cuddliness notwithstanding I can't see those two getting along with Lindsey in the producer's seat for more than a week.:lol:

[MrStevie]

One thing mikephxaz and I can probably agree upon is that if Fleetwood Mac makes another album or if the grass turns purple and rivers start flowing backwards and they make another Buckingham/Nicks album they should definitely bring in an outside producer. Recent "Soldier's Angel" cuddliness notwithstanding I can't see those two getting along with Lindsey in the producer's seat for more than a week.:lol:

Completely disagree. Them not getting along is baloney. They get along fine. No outside producer is going to make FM more commercial than Lindsey or sell more albums than SYW. People can bash SYW all they want and believe Stevie was unhappy with LB's work on it. She wasn't. Some say he wrecked her songs but I have to disagree. Stevie's songs on SYW were great except for Silver Girl and I'm sure LB gave her what she wanted on that. I do agree on this. Only Lindsey and/or Dave Stewart should and will produce any future FM project. Can you dig it? :thumbsup:

[WildHearted]

Completely disagree. Them not getting along is baloney. They get along fine. No outside producer is going to make FM more commercial than Lindsey or sell more albums than SYW. People can bash SYW all they want and believe Stevie was unhappy with LB's work on it. She wasn't. Some say he wrecked her songs but I have to disagree. Stevie's songs on SYW were great except for Silver Girl and I'm sure LB gave her what she wanted on that. I do agree on this. Only Lindsey and/or Dave Stewart should and will produce any future FM projects. Can you dig it? :thumbsup:

The reason people say Stevie was unhappy is because STEVIE has said she was unhappy with the way SYW turned out.

[mikephxaz]

One thing mikephxaz and I can probably agree upon is that if Fleetwood Mac makes another album or if the grass turns purple and rivers start flowing backwards and they make another Buckingham/Nicks album they should definitely bring in an outside producer. Recent "Soldier's Angel" cuddliness notwithstanding I can't see those two getting along with Lindsey in the producer's seat for more than a week.:lol:

Too Funny...on that we can agree!!
btw...I will never believe for a second than Lindsey doesn't want his music heard by more people...or that he doesn't want to sell my cds...I'm only suggesting that he needs to get out of his head to do so...

[BombaySapphire3]

The reason people say Stevie was unhappy is because STEVIE has said she was unhappy with the way SYW turned out.

Yes she has and it is one thing she has been very consistent about over the last eight years.Both the sequencing and the production.

[michelej1]

Too Funny...on that we can agree!!
btw...I will never believe for a second than Lindsey doesn't want his music heard by more people...or that he doesn't want to sell my cds...I'm only suggesting that he needs to get out of his head to do so...

Yes, he'd like to sell more, but he'd like to do it on his own terms. He wants you to like his stuff as it is. He doesn't want to change to make his stuff palatable to you. He'd rather convert than change. He had songs other than Red Rover he could have put on SYW, songs other than Red Rover he could have played in concert, but he wanted a large audience to hear Red Rover whether they wanted to or not. It's not that he doesn't want to sell, it's that given the choice between selling and not selling out, he does the latter. He'd like to have both worlds, but not badly enough.

It's not like he's blind and doesn't understand why no one likes his stuff and has been looking for a way out of his own head, staying up at night going: "Why isn't this working?" Michele

[tabruns]

Stevie has charisma and star power. You go to a Mac show and she just naturally draws attention.

Add to that that she can write really great songs, and before the solo career only her very best stuff was getting on the Mac albums. Someone who puts out "Rhiannon" and "Landslide" in 1975, "Dreams" and "Gold Dust Woman" in 1977, and "Sara", "Beautiful Child" and "Storms" in 1979 is a hell of a talented songwriter. People weren't hearing Nicks' weaker material, because only the strong stuff was able to get on a Mac album.

Also add to that her voice, which is very compelling. She's a very strong live singer too.

[MrStevie]

The reason people say Stevie was unhappy is because STEVIE has said she was unhappy with the way SYW turned out.

That's not the same thing as her saying she didn't like his work. She never took any shots at the SYW album until many years after...when it didn't go platinum, but I don't recall her ever saying she was unhappy with Lindsey's efforts. I do recall her complaining about the SYW tour many years later.

My understading is that she was unhappy with the final selection of songs. She was also unhappy with the political squabbling among the members about the double album issue. That included everyone in the band not just her and LB. I never read or heard Stevie say she was unhappy with Lindsey's producing.

If she ever did say it she's got a huge rack of balls asking for his help with Soldiers Angel on IYD. If she insulted him like that I doubt he would have helped her when he didn't have to. It wasn't for Fleetwood Mac. He helped her with one of her solo songs. They don't get along only when it's Fleetwood Mac? :lol:

[tabruns]

If she was unhappy with his production my guess would be that it was on the single version of "Say You Will" and possibly the new version of "Smile At You" (though, its kind of odd that she'd go along with the recording if she didn't really like it....)

Stevie does tend to say she doesn't like an album AFTER the promotion period is over. She said that about Street Angel. While she was promoting it she would say "Waddy and I rerecorded songs so it was more like me" but after she would say "I *tried* to fix it..." She even said once that since she wasn't out trying to sell it anymore that she could now say that she doesn't like that album. So it's possible that she basically kept mum during the SYW tours but felt she could say "I didn't like how it turned out" after it was all said and done.

[MrStevie]

If she was unhappy with his production my guess would be that it was on the single version of "Say You Will" and possibly the new version of "Smile At You" (though, its kind of odd that she'd go along with the recording if she didn't really like it....)

If she was unhappy with "Smile At You" it's her own fault. Fans hate the SYW version because it's missing the venom of the original. Stevie's the one who wanted the song defanged. She said she didn't feel angry anymore so she didn't want the song to be angry anymore. Blame her not Lindsey. I also don't think it was Lindsey's idea to have a children's chorus on the song SYW. I'd bet my life Stevie wanted it. That's what ruins the song for me.

[WildHearted]

I think Stevie's vocal on Smile at You is perfectly fine. It's the arrangement I'm not keen on.

[bombaysaffires]

Well, at this point in their lives, as far as we know, both Stevie and Christine are single and childless. So I'm not clear what Chris kept that Stevie was prepared to give up? I think they both passed on motherhood in favour of their career. Chris just retired earlier.

Chris wAs certainly more successful in sustaining long term relationships. Yes she's divorced but was married for quite a long time. (And frankly marriage isnt the only measure of a successful relationship) She didn't battle addiction--twice. And she never seemed to lose her sense of herself in all the fame

Why do you assume marriage and motherhood are the only measure of a woman's success??

[jellyman10]

Chris wAs certainly more successful in sustaining long term relationships. Yes she's divorced but was married for quite a long time. (And frankly marriage isnt the only measure of a successful relationship) She didn't battle addiction--twice. And she never seemed to lose her sense of herself in all the fame

Why do you assume marriage and motherhood are the only measure of a woman's success??

I don't assume that, actually, and thank you for answering my question, which was genuinely asking what you thought Stevie gave up that Christine didn't. Your list makes sense, in some ways I hadn't thought of.

But I'm not sure we agree in how we judge the 'facts' of Christine McVie's life. For instance, considering she's now 68, I don't think she was married for 'quite a long time'. Marriage to John barely lasted a decade; Eddie Quintela seems to have lasted longer, but maybe not by much, 12-15 years tops I would guess. Also, remember that she married John two weeks after she met him, which makes Stevie's marriage to Kim look positively well-considered!

Addiction is, again, a matter of opinion. Christine definitely drank a lot, and smoked like a chimney. We know she did coke, too. Stevie often says she was the only one who went to rehab, but to me that doesn't mean she was the only one who had a problem. Don't get me wrong: Stevie's substance abuse was definitely 'worse' - she did more, did it in a way that became very obvious, and let it get to life-threatening levels. But I don't think all the rest of them, including Christine, never leaned on chemical crutches from time to time, as well.

Where I totally agree with you is that Christine never lost her sense of herself. Interestingly, this is (for me) paradoxically why I find Stevie the more interesting artist. Christine's 'self' is essentially a pretty grounded, intelligent, easy-going, modest, and less conflicted, person. I'd bet my car that if I met her, we'd get on like a house on fire! But most of the artists I really dig are nothing like me, so I guess that's why I'm drawn to Miss Stevie.

The reason I gravitate towards motherhood as something both women 'gave up' is because I do have a hunch that that is the biggest sacrifice they made for their careers. It's still an issue that requires thought for women today, and the 60s, 70s and 80s was far worse in terms of society's view that mums should just be mums and not work at the same time. Obviously, we have quite a lot of evidence from her own mouth that not being a mum was a difficult choice for Stevie. But you're right, we don't have as much - if any - evidence that Chris felt any conflict there. She might have been very clear, her whole life, that she didn't want kids, and that's great, in fact I'm that way myself. So I shouldn't have lumped Christine in with Stevie on that score, and I stand corrected.

I guess I just think we're getting off on the wrong foot from the start, to say, as you did, that 'Christine wasn't willing to give up everything else for that kind of fame'. She didn't want it. And it doesn't make sense to give up anything for something you don't want. Stevie actually reported almost this very truth, when she said that she and Chris were talking about Chris's retiral from FM and she said to Stevie: 'This is your passion. It's not mine.' So, it wasn't that she wasn't less willing than Stevie to give anything up; rather, that they simply never craved the same thing.

Last of all on this, it's interesting that LB said recently that he imagined Christine's life nowadays must get a little 'one-dimensional for her', because that's so illuminating of the fundamental differences I've always thought were there between Lindsey-and-Stevie and Christine-and-John. LB and SN were/are artistically narcissists; CM and JM are musicians. (Mick, I think, is a fascinating half n half!) It is very difficult for a narcissist to imagine someone else not feeling the way they do themselves about anything. So LB struggles to believe that Chris is happy without making music. But she probably is. I do hope so (but I'd like to see her come back too).

Sorry this reply was so long.

Loz

[michelej1]

That's not the same thing as her saying she didn't like his work. She never took any shots at the SYW album until many years after...when it didn't go platinum, but I don't recall her ever saying she was unhappy with Lindsey's efforts. I do recall her complaining about the SYW tour many years later.



Oh, I don't think it was "many years" after. I think it was when she did her first interviews after the tour was over, when she was preparing for Caesar's Palace. Plus, it seemed clear that there had been friction between early on during the SYW promotion, when he started the "she never thanked me" plaint. Yes she made comments saying it was the best work both of them had ever done, but she wasn't sounding that enthusiastic to me. But then they seemed to kiss and make up.

But I do agree that after they apparently fought at the end of the tour, her earlier luke warmness over the album returned with a vengeance and became heated dismay.

Michele

[MrStevie]

Oh, I don't think it was "many years" after. I think it was when she did her first interviews after the tour was over, when she was preparing for Caesar's Palace.

I heard most of the Caesar's interviews. :shrug: I don't remember her firing shots until she was into her Crystal Visions promos. You might have me there. Got a pointer to her earlier gripes where I can read em? :wavey:


Plus, it seemed clear that there had been friction between early on during the SYW promotion, when he started the "she never thanked me" plaint. Yes she made comments saying it was the best work both of them had ever done, but she wasn't sounding that enthusiastic to me. But then they seemed to kiss and make up.

But I do agree that after they apparently fought at the end of the tour, her earlier luke warmness over the album returned with a vengeance and became heated dismay.

Michele

Their back and forth is just a lot a hooey. :xoxo:

[On Ice]

Another factor that I think lead to Stevie's star power back in the day was the way a band was promoted. There was always a spotlight towards the lead singer and Stevie was marketed on radio a lot as Fleetwood Mac's lead singer. I remember songs being introduced as Stevie Nicks and Fleetwood Mac. Same could be said for other bands, ie Don Henley and the Eagles. Oddly enough, Christine had the lionshare of singles but wasn't considered as the lead singer, hence the focus on Stevie. As an early fan too, I always thought of Stevie as the lead singer of the band.

[mikephxaz]

Yes, he'd like to sell more, but he'd like to do it on his own terms. He wants you to like his stuff as it is. He doesn't want to change to make his stuff palatable to you. He'd rather convert than change. He had songs other than Red Rover he could have put on SYW, songs other than Red Rover he could have played in concert, but he wanted a large audience to hear Red Rover whether they wanted to or not. It's not that he doesn't want to sell, it's that given the choice between selling and not selling out, he does the latter. He'd like to have both worlds, but not badly enough.

It's not like he's blind and doesn't understand why no one likes his stuff and has been looking for a way out of his own head, staying up at night going: "Why isn't this working?" Michele

Isn't this the definition of insular. I'm not suggesting that an artist shouldn't create their art for themselves alone. The question was why was Stevie the standout. Lindsey can afford to put out the music he wants to put out. My hats off to him.

[glamorousnymph]

Stevie loves bringing this up to play the martyr. Give me a break. Neither of their families was by any means hurting for money, so I seriously doubt she was "supporting" anyone. At best, she probably waited tables a few days a week to supplement their monthly allowances from mom and dad for their pot habit.

I know that's not exactly the topic at hand, but I've always found this story of hers to be very annoying and worthy of an eye roll. :rolleyes:

Don't forget sewing flowers on Lindsey's jeans and making nightly Hamburger Helper. :nod:

I don't know about Stevie working harder at it. She likes to talk a lot about how hard she has worked ("always on call") but she has been very babied all her life, too. She didnt have much to do in the studio with FM. She surrounded herself with supporters. She partied all the time and she did go on vacation. She slept with the men she worked with, probably partly because she started out like that with Lindsey, but maybe partly to get what she wanted from them. And Tom Petty said her work ethic wasn't exactly in line with the Heartbreakers'. Yes, she balanced her band life with solo career, which could not have been easy, especially in the day of videos and so many interviews. However, when she was on tour (Two nights on, two nights off, etc.) wasn't Lindsey always working on music? It wasn't like he was sitting back and doing nothing.

She always felt the need to prove herself to Lindsey and win; that bitterness with him has been a HUGE motivator in her life, I think. Maybe she wanted it more in that way because she has always needed his approval, and he has not always needed hers in the same way. I'm sure it got under his skin tremendously that she became such a solo star, but obviously he didn't go overly commercial in order to compete. So I think yes, she wanted it more and tried harder, but as far as being a harder worker, I'm just not buying it.

[tabruns]

If she was unhappy with "Smile At You" it's her own fault. Fans hate the SYW version because it's missing the venom of the original. Stevie's the one who wanted the song defanged. She said she didn't feel angry anymore so she didn't want the song to be angry anymore. Blame her not Lindsey. I also don't think it was Lindsey's idea to have a children's chorus on the song SYW. I'd bet my life Stevie wanted it. That's what ruins the song for me.

I don't blame either one. I like Say You Will as is.

All I was doing was speculating why Stevie might be griping about how her songs on Say You Will came out. If she has a complaint about "Say You Will" (the song) my guess would be that the single version really amped up the guitar and she might not have been keen about that. I doubt it has anything to do with the childrens chorus that you don't like.

[michelej1]

Isn't this the definition of insular. I'm not suggesting that an artist shouldn't create their art for themselves alone. The question was why was Stevie the standout. Lindsey can afford to put out the music he wants to put out. My hats off to him.

Yes, but your comments seemed to be describing what he should do, as opposed to why Stevie was the stand out. I didn't realize you were answering the stand out question.

Michele

[michelej1]

She always felt the need to prove herself to Lindsey and win; that bitterness with him has been a HUGE motivator in her life, I think. Maybe she wanted it more in that way because she has always needed his approval, and he has not always needed hers in the same way. I'm sure it got under his skin tremendously that she became such a solo star, but obviously he didn't go overly commercial in order to compete. So I think yes, she wanted it more and tried harder, but as far as being a harder worker, I'm just not buying it.

True, even forgetting the studio work, she doesn't even work harder on stage than Lindsey does.

She works more stages, because she is more in demand and can tour more. But when he does tour, he works harder in and out of FM. What she does do more than he does is more P.R.

If the press wanted to talk to Lindsey as much as Stevie I don't know whether he would make himself available or if he'd just do a set number of interviews and then no more. He's kind of a ham and he does like to talk to a certain extent, so maybe if they wanted him as much, he'd oblige. On the other hand . . .

I know we have that one video where he doesn't want to do a press conference after a show and he leaves with Carol Ann. Christine is all bummed because she has to stay. Also, when they did that FM interview there was tension at the start, because Lindsey called in late, I think and all the others were there. So, in that respect, the press and publicity, maybe Stevie worked harder than all of them. Mick is willing to do tons of press too.

Michele

[jellyman10]

^^^ They do say the definition of work is something you have to do when you'd rather be doing something else. So if you look at it like that, there aren't enough hours in the day to be playing with knobs in a studio, for LB, or nattering away endlessly to interviewers, for SN. I say they're equally lazy/industrious at the things they dislike/enjoy. In other words, just like me! :nod:

[michelej1]

Mick not only does press, but he'll stay in the studio all night as well and I think he's quite charismatic. If Mick had been a good looking guy, heaven help us. People would be going, Ringo who? [J/K you Beatles fans].

Mick is very unique. He's got an extraordinary bond with all of them. And I don't mean that in just a loving sense. I'm sure he's caused them all a lot of frustration as well. But if any of them had to do a list of the top 5 most influential people in their lives, whether influential for good or bad, I think Mick would make the cut for each of them.

And I'm sure he'd have to be on Peter Green's list as well. Michele

[GoldDustWoman22]

Mick not only does press, but he'll stay in the studio all night as well and I think he's quite charismatic. If Mick had been a good looking guy, heaven help us. People would be going, Ringo who? [J/K you Beatles fans].

Mick is very unique. He's got an extraordinary bond with all of them. And I don't mean that in just a loving sense. I'm sure he's caused them all a lot of frustration as well. But if any of them had to do a list of the top 5 most influential people in their lives, whether influential for good or bad, I think Mick would make the cut for each of them.

And I'm sure he'd have to be on Peter Green's list as well. Michele

Yes I love Mick. One of my favorite things is his charisma! It's funny because onstage he is so crazy...almost like a madman. However, as soon as he is interviewed he is this charming english gent who I could totally fall hard for...already have;) And I personally think he is smokin'!!

[bombaysaffires]

Stevie goes out and says she loves every album that she/ FMac put out because that's what you do to sell a record. She's being a team player. Who in their right mind would go out with a record to sell and tell everyone they don't really like it, or would have done this that or the other different?!

She keeps her true feelings to herself, she goes out and hypes the record like a good soldier, and does all the publicity required of her.

once the record has had its run, sold whatever it's going to sell, the tour is over and done....then you'll start to hear the real feelings because by then no one can say she didn't do her part or that her dumping on her or her band's own album was the reason it tanked.

EVERY band / artist pulls that "the best album we've ever done" crap with every new album. It's just what has to be done.

[glamorousnymph]

Stevie goes out and says she loves every album that she/ FMac put out because that's what you do to sell a record. She's being a team player. Who in their right mind would go out with a record to sell and tell everyone they don't really like it, or would have done this that or the other different?!

She keeps her true feelings to herself, she goes out and hypes the record like a good soldier, and does all the publicity required of her.

once the record has had its run, sold whatever it's going to sell, the tour is over and done....then you'll start to hear the real feelings because by then no one can say she didn't do her part or that her dumping on her or her band's own album was the reason it tanked.

EVERY band / artist pulls that "the best album we've ever done" crap with every new album. It's just what has to be done.

Well, that's a total bullish-t thing to do, but I get it. I remember Stevie saying she didn't have much to do with Tusk.... After it didn't sell as well as Rumours and she had Jimmy I locked up. if Tusk had sold, you can bet she would have praised it to heaven. A lot of this Monday morning quarterbacking is saving face.

[jellyman10]

Mick not only does press, but he'll stay in the studio all night as well and I think he's quite charismatic.

I agree. Mick loves the whole thing, so he has an appetite for the whole thing. And yes, I'm pretty sure I'd find him beguiling too. Sometimes, in interviews, he really cracks me up. There's a bit on the BBC doc, 'Don't Stop', where he's talking about Rumours, and all the trauma and everything, and he goes: 'So it's was like totally POP ...' -- **huge bug eyes, huge hands paused claw-like in the air above his head** -- 'but NOT!' Ace. :laugh:

[J.Miller]

It is basically this, Stevie wanted it more and she stayed very true to herself. I have thrown doubt in Stevie's face numerous times and she has won me over every time.

[PenguinHead]

Lindsey pretty much got to the essence of it in context of a question he was asked in a recent inteview:

Helping her to move away from me as a person and as an artist, because we started off as a duo and then we joined the band. At some point, her image and her style and her voice … the things that were most appreciated by the machinery — that was waiting in the wings for her in a way that it wasn’t for me, because I was way off to the left and people were going, “What the hell is that?” So by being a part of the mechanism that was for her visibility, I was helping her to move farther away from me.

Don't mistake fame with success. They are two seperate variables, predicated on various terms. Lots of unsuccessful people are famous, and lot of successful people are not famous. Even then, succcess itself can be defined in many ways.

[PenguinHead]

Well, that's a total bullish-t thing to do, but I get it. I remember Stevie saying she didn't have much to do with Tusk.... After it didn't sell as well as Rumours and she had Jimmy I locked up. if Tusk had sold, you can bet she would have praised it to heaven. A lot of this Monday morning quarterbacking is saving face.

You can't say that about Street Angel. She was denouncing it a bit, even as she was promoting it.

[Christopher]

Lindsey pretty much got to the essence of it in context of a question he was asked in a recent inteview:

Helping her to move away from me as a person and as an artist, because we started off as a duo and then we joined the band. At some point, her image and her style and her voice … the things that were most appreciated by the machinery — that was waiting in the wings for her in a way that it wasn’t for me, because I was way off to the left and people were going, “What the hell is that?” So by being a part of the mechanism that was for her visibility, I was helping her to move farther away from me.

Don't mistake fame with success. They are two seperate variables, predicated on various terms. Lots of unsuccessful people are famous, and lot of successful people are not famous. Even then, succcess itself can be defined in many ways.

Yes....and Stevie is both - very successful and famous!?:shrug: What's your point specifically in relation to Stevie?:cool:

[mikephxaz]

Don't mistake fame with success. They are two seperate variables, predicated on various terms. Lots of unsuccessful people are famous, and lot of successful people are not famous. Even then, succcess itself can be defined in many ways.

huh?....................

[PenguinHead]

Yes....and Stevie is both - very successful and famous!?:shrug: What's your point specifically in relation to Stevie?:cool:

For sure, Stevie is both. I was making comment about some of my in-depth feelings about fame and success in a general sense, but not in direct relation to Stevie...in hindsight perhaps a bit out of context. Sorry for the confusion.

Essentially I was trying to convey that Lindsey is very succesful on his own terms, even though Stevie vastly ecplises him in fame....or something like that.

[fumidesigns]

Y was she the breakout star? Ummmmm cause she's hot. I know that sounds shallow as hell, but the fact is....SEX SELLS! Yes she's an amazing songwriter and storyteller and her performances really pull you in, but her beauty put her on top!

Wow.....I just read what I wrote and it was horrible but imo it's so true!

[talazam]

I was 9 when Rumours came out, and I played that album to death and still love every single song on it. I have bought it on Vinyl, tape, CD (twice) and DVD-A.

But at the same time as loving it as a whole, Stevie's songs spoke to me in a way the others didn't. Its the way she uses mystery, poetry and gives vague hints at what she is on about, the way her songs can apply to many things and can change over time, that draw me to her lyrics.

That and the fact that my vocal range exactly matched hers at the time, making her songs the easiest to sing along to, made her my favourite in the band.

That said, I also love Mick and John for the backbone they supply to the band.